Latest / Radically Genuine / 225. Remove the Interference- Prayer, Placebo and the Science of Healing w/ Dr. Ben Rall
Transcript
- Dr. McFillin (00:02.424) Welcome to the Radically Genuine Podcast. I'm Dr. Roger McFillin Here's what I'm interested today. I'm interested in creating a bridge. And that bridge for me is between the material science or science that's empirical, what we can observe, what we can test, what we can measure into new areas of science, again, that holds certain principles to be true, which are our search for truth. And so that is how we also take the scientific method and apply it to areas where maybe they're not so clearly observable, but there's an outcome that can later be observed. So you don't always know what's the intermediary. You don't know what is there. And that's the bridge that I want to walk to is towards the sacred, towards the spiritual. The measurable and the transcendent, like the laboratory and the prayer room. or the church. Here's what I keep finding as I'm digging deep into this. And I mean, like replicated science, some of it, know, peer reviewed, published. It's the wall between these two words is far thinner than we've been told. And whether that's talking about openly about the placebo literature and the science of belief at greater depth, psych neuroimmunology, science of how meaning and relationship influence biology or matter, post-material consciousness research, which is pointing closer to faith traditions across cultures, across religions. That we're just more than our bodies. That healing is not a mechanical. Dr. McFillin (01:56.93) phenomenon. That there's something that is invisible, I guess, at least to the naked eye. That includes intention, love, presence, prayer, and energy, which appears to have a measurable effects on living systems. In my opinion, the gentleman who is coming back to the podcast today, I think this is his third time he lives at that intersection. He is a chiropractor, a tradition that has always operated from a vitalistic philosophy. So we can get into that with a little greater depth. The understanding that the body carries an innate intelligence that organizes, that repairs and heals itself when given the conditions to do so. He is also a committed Christian and his faith is not a footnote in his work. It's the foundation of it. And for him, the body's capacity to heal is not an accident. It's clearly not from what he says, pills, potions or lotions. It's evidence of a divine design. I want to welcome back, for those who've been fans of the podcast and listen more regularly, his name is Dr. Ben Rall. A little bit of history. ended up building one of the largest chiropractic and wellness clinics in the United States. He served as the official chiropractor for Team USC at the 2012 London Olympics. He spent over two decades teaching people that they are not broken machines waiting to be fixed, that they are fearfully and wonderfully made, designed from the inside out to heal. He is the author of Design to Heal, which is a 365 day devotional that weaves scripture, science, clinical wisdom, into that daily practice of healing. I'm going to be honest, this is exactly where I am in my life right now. This is what I am most interested in. I am authoring a book right now and he and I are very much aligned. And so there's a reason why he's in my life. There's a reason he's on the show. He is an excellent podcast host, designed to heal podcast and operates Achieve Wellness in Orlando, Florida. Dr. McFillin (04:16.642) I want to welcome back to the radically genuine podcast, Dr. Ben Raul. Dr. Ben Rall (04:19.84) man, how are you my friend? It's great to be here. It's great to be with your audience I thinking was thinking about the last time or I mean me and you are in constant, you know conversation but back on the show and really It's almost a timestamp Roger because just even how much Can change in a short period of time on perspective, right? And the reason I'm even bringing this up is a person listening to today You may you might love this show and you listen to these things You love healing, love learning about these types of things. But I would just, as we start today's episode, I would just encourage you, there's gonna be some things we're gonna talk about today that might stretch a person a little bit, right? And not in a bad way, they're just like, I never thought of it that way. I never considered that. And so my hope and prayer today would just be that it's, that people receive information, that they receive insights that are true blessing to them and i think you and i both had a happy in our own lives right were a simple phrase or a simple encouragement can change everything you know truth when you hear and so that's that would be my hope today but of course i love being with you and excited to talk Dr. McFillin (05:35.887) Yeah, thanks for being here. What is true is always true, right? It doesn't shift with the times. It's not going to adapt to the cultural mores of a time. It's certainly not political, right? Truth is always true. what I love about you is I think we have this passion for this search for truth and we are seeking it. We're seeking it in both this material world that we live in by examining and being critical of science and where science deceives and where it creates harm. But we're also seeking it in the spiritual realm. Like we agree that we are limited here. What is observable is not all of reality. That there is a energetic and spiritual realm that exists that I think you would agree that we descended into this physical body. And we're in a physical plane and that physical plane brings about a lot of challenges which are for our soul's evolution and for our soul's growth. they're in that plane, like darkness is evident and evil is evident and the challenges of being a human being with such like destruction and darkness and so forth are part of this path that we're on to transcend that and to become closer to to love and you're one of the people I've been drawn to because you approach your patients from a perspective and what I see as a passion and an energy and a love and I can't find anyone better to articulate the healing capacity of that. I'd like to start there to open up our conversation. Dr. Ben Rall (07:30.575) Yeah, a friend of mine recently passed away. His name was Dr. Guy Reekman. In my profession, he was very special. He led several universities. He's just been a leader in this profession for decades and decades and left quite a legacy. And it was a kind of a surprise, his passing. So we were all a little bit shocked. But I bring this up because he was the first person that I ever heard say this. know, Roger, there's things that we know. Okay, and then there's the things that we know we don't know, like I know I don't know how to build a car or whatever, right? And then there's this other category, which are the things that we don't know that we don't know. They exist, but we don't even know we don't know, right? And that's a humbling place to be. Okay, and he also is one that showed me this one time, Roger, he said, and this is an this would just launches into this, you know, a of times we get into this vitalistic versus mechanistic conversation, right? And I live there a lot and he said, listen, it isn't that, you know, this physical reality isn't here, right? I have a hand and I'm touching it and feeling it and people have headaches and have experiences in this physical plane. wasn't that, he said, it's, you know, it's just this, the mechanistic piece, it falls under the umbrella of vitalism, of wholism, okay, of the universe as we know it, there is a part that's physical. He goes, it's just not that big of a part, right? Instead, what we've done is we've turned it where it's, for many people, it's the only part, right? It's I hurt right here, right? And they point to their elbow or their neck or their back, or maybe in your work, right, you can give different stories. But what I think happened was a lot of this, Roger, my approach has really just been from Being in the trenches, you know, with patients for 20 plus years, you know, I've probably seen 20,000 patients and you just learn things if you're willing to learn. mean, you can, you don't get it by definitely, you don't get it just because you did it for 20 years. mean, there's people that have had, they've been doing stuff for 20 years, but they've just been doing the same year over and over for 20 years. So you don't inherently learn a lot of things if you're not choosing to listen, right? If you're not choosing to see what's going on and see what works. And I think I've, I've had enough experiences that didn't make sense. Roger. Dr. Ben Rall (09:49.47) that made me look at things differently. Okay, I'll give you a couple of examples. How do I, so I'm a chiropractor, so I see structure and I measure bones and I do my examinations and you have somebody that maybe has incredible symptoms, maybe they're having just debilitating fibromyalgia, for example, okay, and I'll do an exam and I'll measure all the things and I start taking care of them. and then they start improving and they're getting better and their symptoms are getting better and then maybe it's a month or two and I go to do a re-exam and I measure everything and none of my none of my objective tests have shown improvement yet I'm sitting across from somebody who's healed. Dr. Ben Rall (10:38.933) I mean, now the young doctor in me almost would have found that offensive, right? Like it would almost have frustrated me. And, and now, you know, my time now, I just celebrate it, right? Like it's, it's a reminder in your face reminder that there has to be more to this story. And a lot of times the miss doc is this, cause there's other people. that I gave care to and I go measure objectively. I'm so glad to have this conversation with you. And you sit down and you do all these objective tests again. Of course subjective, but let's say objective. And now in this one, they showed profound improvement objectively. Now two things can happen there sometimes. Tremendous objective improvements, yet they're still suffering the same. So they didn't, okay, we got that. Or option three, is that they changed, they changed objectively and they changed symptomatically or, you know, on their subjectively. And I could make the mistake at all of these rods. There's wrong assumptions I could make. One of them there might be, look, it worked. I got to change on their X-ray or on their muscle scans or on their inflammation and they're feeling better. It must be because I changed the curve because their muscles are relaxed. Right. And just bear with me on this. Here's my point. All of those have missing pieces that fall into the category of I don't know what I don't know. Because some of those people got better because I simply laid my hands on them and they haven't felt the touch of a human for 10 years. Because they live alone, they've been through hell, they don't know what to do, they haven't felt love and care, or my staff gave them a hug when they came in, or it was the first time somebody listened to them and believed them, or it was the first time somebody looked them in the eyes and said, I believe you can heal. And they've been told they can't for 30 years. Dr. Ben Rall (12:44.1) The first time I had a woman today sitting down on my table, she had had a stroke a couple years ago. I haven't seen her for a long time. She was just weeping and she just looked at me and she said, can I ask you a question? I said, of course. And she said, do you really think that I can heal? And I just looked at her, just like a loving brother, know, and I just said, of course I think you can heal. Like, first of all, who am I to ever say you can't? I mean, like. That would be blasphemous to come out of my who am I ever to say that so I'm almost mandated Roger or forced by my understanding of of God to say absolutely you can heal. That would be I would say that's requirement of us as as doctors and physicians so my opening kind of. Proposition for listeners is things may not be as they appear. Likely actually they're not and that doesn't have to be a bad thing. There's a little pastor and then I'll let you dive in here, Raj. A little pastor, Matthew Barnett, he runs a place called the Dream Center in LA. And he's amazing and they do some amazing things and they really take basically people off Skid Row and just love on them and rehabilitate them. And it's an amazing event out there. I've met with them. I've been to their facility. We used to have a chiropractic clinic in that place. And I remember he would call it, he said you have to leave room for, he called it the miracle space. He said have to leave room for the miracle space. Understand you're not gonna understand it. Understand just just give room for that person in front of you to heal right now Like it doesn't have to follow my textbook. It doesn't have to follow an insurance form It doesn't have to follow a diagnosis plan doesn't have to follow the regular way that it goes but if I don't even entertain that possibility or Even say that to them, which is where I think you let off a little bit What is it like for the practitioner to engage with a? Client a patient a person. It doesn't matter a family member a stranger even My perspective honestly matters immensely. Now, I don't know we fully understand the magnitude of it. Okay, and we'll maybe flush out some of that today. And I know you've got some research on this and things like that. But that's kind of where we'll start. are you, any thoughts on that? Dr. McFillin (14:55.994) Well, there's two authors that have come to mind for me. One is Joe Dispenza. You're probably aware of him. It was a chiropractor and another is a gentleman by the name of RJ Spina. There are two people who healed themselves, not from COVID or the common cold, right? They were both paralyzed and that to our little menial minds in this material world, in the way we've all been brainwashed. You know, that's like, that's impossible, right? To somebody who is deeply religious, it probably is a miracle. I find myself in the middle. I believe it is an act of faith. I do believe it is an act of God. Of course I do. But I do believe in our own ability to be able to access that healing capacity. And I believe that the answer lies in understanding consciousness. And we don't actually know what that means all the time, but consciousness is your experience of reality. It's your understanding. It is your everything. It encapsulates everything you believe and see and understand to be true. And what happens in this life, whether you like it or not, there's an expansion of consciousness. And sometimes, What happens in the course of a lifetime is you are exposed to events that the logical mind cannot make sense of that modern day science materialism, the allopathic model, biological mechanisms, everything you've learned. They're not explainable at all by those theories. Right? So it goes back to what I said before. If what is true is always true, Well, then when something happens outside of the parameters of that limited knowledge, well, then it's not true, right? Then it's fundamental understanding of it is not true. So then us as human beings in a healthcare space who care and love for others, love humanity, and we want to improve humanity, then you have to say it's false. It's not true. Why is not true? Because the rules, the laws don't even apply. Dr. McFillin (17:22.894) Right. And then we have, what happens is then you expand your knowledge and you expand your understanding. So, you started bringing this into the conversation and it's around what a person believes one, but it's also around the interconnectedness of all things like our ability to influence another, which I will later in the show, I will reveal Science that proves it to be true, but I want us to move in the direction of those two things us as active creators of our own reality consciousness over matter is one and then the second is The influence that we have on each other as a healing force Dr. Ben Rall (18:10.972) Yeah, there's a couple of things that come to mind about the second question. There are influence on others. I will say this. Some of your listeners might be familiar with a doctor who was a pediatric oncologist, Dr. Bernie Siegel. He wrote a book called Love, Medicine, and Miracles. And I'll paraphrase, but it's pretty profound what I'm going to share. And the implications to this are exactly what we're talking about. I pediatric oncology, doesn't get much heavier, right? You're dealing with kids with cancer. He's largely credited with bringing visualization to cancer care, to healthcare, where you maybe imagine your body killing cancer cells. He would have them draw pictures of whatever they wanted, know, army guys eating, cancer, whatever it was. But he made this statement, and I'm paraphrasing it, but here's how I remember reading the book. He said, might have 10 patients that I'm caring for and the science says that 9 out of 10 of them will be dead in 6 months. These are just his realities. He said, I had this moment where I realized that means one of them won't. One of them won't be dead. I'm going to look at all of them and treat them since I don't know which one it is. then I'm going to have to look at, I'm gonna choose to look at all of them as though they're that one. Now just think right there, Roger, you could say the other way, like, you know what, nine out of 10 of these are gonna be gone. I'm just, this is kind of hard work. I don't even know who it is. You know, I'm just gonna, we're just trying to get through this, give him the last few good months. I don't know, just love on him. He made a decision and you might even look at that approach and go, well, that still can be nice and he's trying to be a good guy, right? Dr. Ben Rall (20:04.242) but he made a distinct decision to say, my goodness, one of them won't be. And I'm gonna treat them all as if they're that. if my memory is correct, his survival rates went to like 60%. I mean, I'm talking a massive change. And all that changed, Roger, was his view of them. There's another thing we talk about, is, you you've probably heard, they call it the Mother Teresa effect, right? Which is literally they, play videos of, I mean, there's different ways they've done it, but they've played videos of people watching Mother Teresa pray for people and lay hands on people and care for the sick and literally measuring the physiology of these people. And this is research of Harvard. And they're saying they're watching the immune systems of these people, their blood levels change, their perspectives change. There's been even some studies done on really like even the frequency, if you will, of Mother Teresa's ability where they call it a healing presence. where you come into the room. I don't want to go too far down this route, but there's times and days in my office where I would say things like that are happening. I just had a miracle happen the other day, a woman who hadn't been able to hear out of her ear for like 10 years in this constant pain, and I gave her an adjustment. She sat up on the table, and I've adjusted this woman like many times, okay? And she got up and her ear was healed, and she was just overwhelmed, and I don't know what that was. I don't need to know what that was, Roger. I don't need to know. We just celebrated together and gave her a hug and... It was beautiful, right? I'm saying, yeah. Dr. McFillin (21:33.809) What about the ego of Ben as the healer? Dr. Ben Rall (21:38.266) Well, here's something for people to consider. Dr. Ben Rall (21:44.89) And I'm thankful that I had somebody speak this into me back when I was in school. Roger, you know, you probably remember your schooling. There's things people said that I didn't understand at the time, know, wise people. And I remember this is going to maybe oversimplify, but this wise professor, which I start to look like I have silver hair now that he used to have silver hair. And he said, he said, Ben, take no blame and take no fame. The healing is not up to you, right? Cause Roger, if I'm gonna take the credit for that in a real just basic sense, then that means everybody that's not responding the way I want them to respond, then that's a burden that I'm gonna carry. apparently they're, see if you're gonna take the credit, then you're gonna take the blame. I think there's a freedom in there that's option C, which is I'm there to love them. I don't know what that. looks like. Let me give an extreme and maybe a little bit of a weird example to this. Roger, let's say that somebody came into my office and they had bad shoulder pain. Maybe that shoulder pain they got because they are abusing somebody in their life so much that they hurt their shoulder being abusive. So this person making this story up is going to need a, they need more than just their shoulder pain to go away. Matter of fact, we could make the argument. Maybe we don't want their shoulder pain to go away. So there's times where we celebrate, we may be thinking if we're focusing only on their symptom and we're calling that the healing, their shoulder feels better, their back feels better, they can hear again out of their ear. I'm seeing even in those moments where it seems like an obvious benefit from our perspective, there may be layers that we don't understand. This person that has the bad shoulder pain, they may need love and healing and forgiveness and encouragement for days, weeks, months, right? Dr. Ben Rall (23:48.663) to be set free from that desire to be abusive to whoever it is in their life. My point in this is, Roger, when we get in the way sometimes of trying to think we know what they need, and when I say that, I mean symptomatically. I mean, I gotta fix your headaches, I gotta fix your whatever, fill in the blank. My heart's desire for them is to heal. This is what I'm trying to say, But the way I'm gonna get there is by loving them. The way I'm gonna get there is by invoking or asking for the presence of God, the one that made them, sustains them, breathes them, heals them, knows them intimately, personally, for that to be involved in this conversation and to have its way with the healing process. so I think just to put a bow on that one or just to maybe remind me of the first question, but Roger, I think what a lot of times happens though is we don't even try to, we don't even consider the role of what we bring to the table in our, our, our, our heart, our perspective for that person. It's really, really important that we're bringing in a perspective that is victory for them, right? That is healing for them. That is anything is possible for them. And I think it not only matters, it matters tremendously. Dr. McFillin (25:17.645) I know it, I know it does. I know it's measurable as well. there is, love is, is, is more than a sentiment and you know, it's more than a hallmark card. Love is a healing energy. It's a force. One can say God is all, God is love, right? God is all things. God is love. Right? And so if you are bringing in, we are energetic beings. have no doubt about that. We are energetic beings that are inhabiting a physical costume and identity body for a temporary period of time. And God is that energy. So I think what you're saying before I bring in Jesus, I want to bring in the discussion of Jesus today, that you are actively aligning with that life force, with that energy, with that love, and you have learned to be able to use that energy and direct it as a mechanism of healing by surrendering to the fact that God is the healer, that God is all things, and you're bringing that into the room. Is that correct? Dr. Ben Rall (26:17.104) Roger 100 % correct and just for a 10 second story. I had a very Important encounter that happened that changed that for me. I did have not always practiced this way I wasn't practicing ridiculously, but I didn't understand some of this and I've never personally I've never heard the audible voice of God, but I think people have you know, you're listening this in your spiritual person you've maybe heard something or you felt that you were spoken to or something comes into mind that happened to me and I was driving home a night and very simple and just basically you know I felt them said you know Ben you you talk a lot about healing and you help a lot of people heal and that's awesome okay whatever great great great job but um you don't talk a lot about the healer And that was like one of those where you stop the car and you just you just weep and you just sit there and sit in that moment. It changed everything for me. And it was a moment of just see, Roger, this is the difference that I think we don't understand. I wasn't I wasn't filled with shame and guilt in that moment. I wasn't I didn't pull over and beat myself up. I was just grateful for that perspective shift. And I thought, well, that's here we go with truth again. I just knew that was true. Now I'm aware of it. Now I can bring that absolutely into my care with my patients and go, Hey, here's the good news. It doesn't, it doesn't even really, there's more to the story and it's only going to make it better for you. Right. And it expanded my ability to have compassion also freed me a bit to watch them have their miracle. was, I was in a sense, Roger it's, and you may be articulate it better than I will. It's this weird tension. I've heard it said this way. You care so much. You don't care. Right? Like you're divorced from the outcome, but yet you're bringing in as much love and hope and grace and into that healing encounter that you can, right? It's this weird, seems like a dichotomy, but it's, all in there. want nothing but their healing. And yet I'm divorced from it in a way, cause it's ultimately not mine to do. And Dr. Ben Rall (28:22.362) then that sounds almost like I'm schizophrenic. You know, maybe maybe that's the official diagnosis. But so yeah, I kind of interrupted you there, doctor but Dr. McFillin (28:32.49) That was a very important story and very meaningful to our conversation. I'm just going to open it with this statement because I think you know where I am on this journey. I've probably never felt more close to Jesus than at any point in my entire life, but yet most further away from organized religion, dogma, and even the understanding as the Holy Bible as pure truth. So those things exist for me right now. And when I open up the Bible, I'm drawn only to Jesus's words. And I get a reaction at different places trying to peruse through the Bible, almost like there's something inside me that's saying not truth, not truth, truth. Truth, truth, not truth, not truth, misrepresented, misrepresented truth. Like it's one of those things and I feel it inside. I read Jesus in his own words and that's what is documented. And then like there's a truth and then my mind expands to all different types of possibilities about even what that may mean. I am in awe of the glory and profound possibilities of his teachings as well as the simplicity. as well as an awe for the time period he was brought to for a particular reason. There's a great degree of humility that I have when it comes to the teachings of Jesus Christ. And I am small in trying to understand it. But that feeling of awe and wonderment drives more seeking of truth. But I want to talk about Jesus as a healer. And I want to understand from your perspective, I think you're, I'm not going to say you're a biblical scholar, because that's not what you dedicated your life to, but you are a deep devotee to the word. And I think you meditate on it and pray on it and seek out discernment. And so you're my first person I go to. Dr. Ben Rall (30:35.556) Sure. Thank you. Dr. McFillin (30:52.947) When I'm when I'm asking questions about something because I what I received back is wisdom. I don't necessarily receive dogma I receive some form of wisdom and Application to it. That's why I fully believe that you're meant for something really big down actually I know you are meant for something much bigger down the line and for people who are listening already get a sense of what that wisdom is But I want to know I want you to understand through your eyes your understanding of Jesus's role in healing well-documented historical fact What do you think was happening? Dr. Ben Rall (31:27.646) man Dr. Ben Rall (31:33.912) It's almost, you know, Roger, I think there's times we step into this kind of a sacred conversation. this is a, I feel very, you know, it's a very humble and even talk about or try to talk about his healing and what that looked like. And one of my favorite parts about looking at, and I think not to, let me just set this up for a second. people heal, sometimes if I'm doing a talk and maybe it's not to a group of people that believe there's God or anything like, know, in the secular terms, in the medical terms, we call innate, you know, healing, we call that homeostasis, Negative feedback loops, like we just have medical terms for God's design and not here to debate that. So it's, you don't have to believe in healing for your bone to heal, right? There's this innate. Now, I would suggest it's really good. And there are times where it's really important to understand and do Believe if you will that you are designed to heal as I say all the time. So part of this is a conversation that I think just helps you be open to a level of healing or a type of healing or a perspective of a real personal. I Roger, what we're talking about here is a healing that's beyond just physical healing. It's healing that is mind, body, spirit, if we want to use that language. There's an example in the scriptures. so many examples. mean, really my devotional, man, Roger, I'm just really overwhelmed to be on this today. I'm just, kind of getting emotional. When I wrote the devotional, the Lord woke me up at 4 the morning and said, I want you to go from Genesis to Revelation and pull out all the scriptures related to healing. Just do that. I didn't know how many there would be. I didn't know if it would fill up a book. I didn't know what it was. Turns out there's references and stories and narratives on healing in every book of the Bible. There ended up being so many. There was more than 365. I had to cut some out. I found it fascinating. About three quarters of what we would call healings or discussions towards healing. Dr. Ben Rall (33:41.492) actually relate to the mind, relate to perspective, relate to what we maybe would call mental health, if you will. And then there's of course these amazing physical healings that we talk about and we'll talk about here in a minute. I'm saying this to say, you know, one, there's so many examples, but we talk specifically about the life of Christ. There's no recipe, Roger, and I think this is another one of the beautiful parts. There's times, like we know the story of maybe the woman pressing into the robe. squeezing through the crowd, the woman who was bleeding for 12 years, and she knew if she could just touch the hem of his robe, she'd be healed. And that's in fact what happened. That's when Jesus stops, right, and he asks, who touched me? Right? And we remember as he felt power, he felt something, right? This is this inner play. Even that story is fascinating, that a woman, an unknown woman in the crowd, touched his hem, and he felt that and he experienced that. And there was this inner play between Christ and this woman. By the way, he's on the way to heal somebody else. And then there's another story, but this is one where The man was an invalid for 38 years and he's kind of crying out and this is where Jesus says to him He he looks at me says do you want to be well? The actual one of the translations there is do you want to be whole? I Love that one so much better. Just imagine this loving God in front of you asking you if you want to be whole Roger there's something there. We need to understand this decision this interplay i do not pretend to understand it all but i will tell you it is more real than the words my voice that you hear right now because it because it cuts deeper it goes to something inside of us that's eternal what do mean by eternal i mean exactly what the word of god is eternal it's always been there it's that real it's it's realer than this vapor that we're in right now but but make but understand this we're part of eternity right now like there is This isn't a subset. It's just a different part of the journey, but it's all part of eternity. So when you think of his healing, there's times where he calls out to a woman. One of my favorite healing miracles is a woman who had been bent over for 18 years and she's sitting in the back of a synagogue and it says that he sees her. And in that instance, Roger, he calls her and he brings her up and he actually, first thing he does is deals with the spirit of infirmity, lays hands on her. I think that's why I like it, because I'm a chiropractor. Dr. Ben Rall (36:03.27) then it says she's upright, she begins to praise God. So there's times where he heals people, there's times where he says I heal you because of your faith, there's times where the one centurion's son was sick at home and he finds him and he heals him with a distance. He didn't even see the boy, he didn't lay hands on the boy, he wasn't in the room with the boy, he heals him from a distance. There's these endless stories. So what I think is happening to your question, what is that? and by the way, Jesus tells his disciples, right, as he's leaving, if you will, this plane, he says, even greater things you shall do. I know there's ramps here and for anybody that's listening that has different perspectives, sir, can any of certain things like this be twisted and perverted into ways that are maybe not as altruistic as we would desire them to be and can they be used for self-serving purposes and things? Sure, that's not the conversation we're having today. What we're talking about today is I would not want to miss the healing power of God and the perspective that Christ was showing us while he was walking in the flesh to show us a glimpse of what this can look like. these signs and wonders and healings, of the beautiful, Roger, one of the most beautiful things that they are for me is they point towards Him. They point towards love. They point towards possibility. They point towards something bigger and greater than you. Because everybody in that has that experience goes, what was that? And you get to say, God, love, forgiveness, mercy, whatever the moment is, forgiveness of, I mean, this repentance turning away, it doesn't matter. That's not the point of it. Dr. Ben Rall (38:07.792) So when you know there's also a language around this that I think I would want to just touch on briefly and then happy to continue this conversation, which is. Dr. Ben Rall (38:19.728) When Christ sees you, if you will, if we're coming from this from a, he created you in his likeness and image that were created in the likeness and image of God, divinely designed, I firmly believe that, then you're talking about the Creator looking at his creation. First of all, he's gonna know you intimately, he's gonna know you perfectly. Roger, what we're talking about here is not just a Force it's not just a four. It's a it's a personal for it's a it's personal and I mean like Intimately personal like knows more about you than you know about you personal and Because of that when he is looking at you the the man the the fleshly version of it We're talking about Jesus. It's time on earth He's gonna see you of How you were designed the original intent the original design he's gonna see you perfect The kingdom is within you. The kingdom is near. When they said Jesus teaches us how to pray, in his prayer, in Jesus' prayer, he says, on earth, as it is in heaven. Now again, I won't pretend to be able to unpack all of that, but I would say, if anything, we are at a much greater risk of actually, I would say, boxing in God, if that's even possible, but we... We shut him off to possibility. don't even ask. We don't even consider when that woman asked me today, Dr. Ben, do you really think that my left side can heal from a stroke? My only answer is absolutely. And why? Because I'm looking at the greatest miracle right in front of me. You have trillions of cells healing, talking, man, you know, you can hear me, you can see me, walked in here. Like, like I think Roger, what we've done out of fear and out of just mechanistic, medical, and legal issues, and boards, and all this different stuff, right? We've actually, in a sense, squelched the spirit because we don't even entertain anything outside of the natural. So think one of the lessons that the life of Christ and His healing ministry that we can learn is Dr. Ben Rall (40:44.332) how the perspective that we will consider from a good God who loves us and made us, and that nothing is beyond His ability to heal. Dr. McFillin (40:59.337) Then I want to I want to throw something at you here. This is first time I'm talking about this because it's deeply personal. And as you as you know that I've devoted my life right now to periods of silence every day. And they're the best parts of my day. It's now it's in. It's no longer measured in minutes, it's measured in hours. And it's deep peace and. Psalm 46 10, be still and know that I am God. And so I am a seeker of truth. I am looking for wisdom and I ask for it every day. And I had this transcendent moment where I felt the overwhelming love of Jesus. And he said this to me. Dr. Ben Rall (41:52.328) No. Dr. McFillin (41:53.948) I did not come to save. I came to awaken and left it at that. And it was profound. And it led to a tremendous shift in how I understand life, reality, and the power and meaning of this particular time. So much so that like that's written at the end of my sub stacks. I write awaken, you know, I used to write resist because that was coming from that energy that I had at that time, which is to resist tyranny, resist the forces of evil to control, to inhibit the human spirit, to flourish, you know, things that, you know, you and I believe in strongly, but it was now it's like awaken to who you truly are. Right. And, Dr. Ben Rall (42:29.834) Mm. Dr. Ben Rall (42:47.324) Mm, mm, mm. Dr. McFillin (42:48.809) He was here and I want to play a little bit of a true false with you because I want to know whether you believe it's true or false and I'll let you explain. Do you believe that Jesus was here to awaken us to our own divine capabilities to be able to do what he did as he came on this earth in form of man? Do you believe he was waking us up? to our own ability to be able to do that. Dr. Ben Rall (43:24.072) I would say that that is certainly part, I don't think it's the totality, but I would say that that is well within the bounds of why He created us. And think we have the Scripture to support that. I think we were told that out of His mouth. I think that the only differential I would put in there, Roger, is The reason that he put that, that what you just described, that ability, that desire to, you will, awaken, which, you know, to really remove the veil when he, when he talks about in the, the crucifixion, when the veil was torn, that, that, that took away the middle man. Okay. We can go directly to our creator. We're, an inner force. We're considered, we're called co-creators. These are all things that are just, they are, don't say, I mean, I understand them all. But here's the only caveat I would add to that Roger and I think it's an important one and I don't know if you agree but I you do. All of this is for the glory of God. It's for a bigger purpose. So yes, what this isn't is cool magic tricks or ego-inducing look at what I can do or what I did. Okay, when I got, I mean, I'm gonna get emotional again. We had an incredible week at the office and I just was driving home and my office had sent me some of the, just from the week and I just wept. I was like, nothing, it doesn't make sense, right? It's just the goodness of God allowing us to serve people. And I say that because again, long answer to your question, Roger. I think absolutely he is a waking because he designed us for that. There's been a separation. Use. the from a Saul to a Paul, if you want to look at that example, right? Where the scales fall off of your eyes. The song, Amazing Grace, I once was blind, but now I see darkness to light. These are all descriptions of breaking through, of coming to that place. Like Christ said, I only want to say and do the things that my Father says and does. There's an intimacy through that intimacy. We will be more like Him. Dr. Ben Rall (45:45.368) which is what Christian means to be a representative of Christ. wasn't a name they gave to themselves. It was a name that was given to them by others because they witnessed them doing things like Christ. It's the call we all to have less of me, more of him. What does that mean? The essence, the understanding, the perspective of Christ. How is that possible? Because of his indwelling in us in the Holy Spirit. Like this is what that now, how do we fully articulate that? I don't know, but it's this incredible interplay where it's a blessing in a sense to us and it allows us to be a blessing to others and Roger that's how the whole thing works right I can I can you know help heal a person or you'll be part of that interaction and then and then they're better and we all got to witness it together and we're giving glory to God like it's it's beautiful right it's the classic kind of win win win so I don't think that's a blasphemous statement now what I think can happen is people can use that for just self glory, right? And ego and things like that. And it's really immaterial to me if that's how they're choosing to do it. There's a paraphrasing, there's a part in the scripture where people are doing signs and wonders in the name of Jesus, but they didn't really necessarily prescribe to him and they were asking Christ about it. And he goes, well basically he says, that's, I mean, it's fine, they're still giving the credit where credit's due, right? You know, and it's kind of an odd statement there, right? They're just saying as long as they're giving credit, I think, When we try to explain things and the created us is gonna have a hard time fully articulating the creator that's above us. And so we're gonna always struggle in this plane to describe it perfectly. But yeah, I think of what I said around. What do you think? Does that make sense? What are you tracking? Dr. McFillin (47:32.63) I'm right with you and it brings me to another thought and this is around ego. Dr. McFillin (47:42.626) I got to experience it this morning in meditation and I think it happened for a reason and that's why we're here. I am re-seeing or re-understanding first of all Christ as an energy, as a consciousness, as a way. And I see the anti-Christ different now. I see the anti-Christ as the ego, the mind. the material world, the trappings of this world, when you are in separation, completely disconnected from God, you are in hell. And that can be experienced on this world, just as earth as it is in heaven. I believe hell can be experienced here and it is separation from God. And what separates us from God is ego. is the human mind and all its worries, its survival just for this space. It's putting someone else as an authority, whether that is a government official or a medical authority or somebody else, right? It is the trappings of this world and it's fear encapsulates that experience, right? And so fear drives you and now you are vulnerable to be anti-Christ, right? You are anti that consciousness of love and transcendence. and healing and the surrendering to know that there is a greater God's plan. That's why I loved what you said earlier about your surrendering outcomes to God. That is not your outcome. And I believe we come here for our own lessons and people die too. We're all going to die. people go sick and they get injured and they go through trials and tribulations for something greater. Like I don't look at that through the eyes of tragedy anymore. I look at through the Dr. Ben Rall (49:15.691) Hmm. Dr. McFillin (49:33.344) the eyes of some experience that's so much greater than ours, that's for our own healing and for our own growth. Some of the most beautiful and transcendent experiences of all time have come from that darkness, that tragedy, that struggle, even war, even disease, right? So I do, I'm like with you, I like surrender outcomes anymore and I don't attach anything to it because the glory of God in that respect is so much greater than what we can ever imagine. But I do see what the Antichrist is. And we can see it all in ourselves too. You know, we can look at it as when we become selfish and we become attached to this idea of who we are, this limited nature. Our ego takes control and becomes bigger than what God is. That is, I think that's the road to hell. And so that's kind of how I'm looking at it now. Get your thoughts on that. Dr. Ben Rall (50:21.662) Yeah, there's a there's a part in the scriptures and a Bispin can paraphrase and Jesus is basically kind of telling him like hey Here's what's gonna kind of happen at the end talking to the disciples some of these guys at the end of their life and One of them goes like well, what about me? He's like don't you don't worry like like they or what or want to know their perspective He says that's that's for me to know like that's my plan for them. That's nothing to do He says that has nothing to do with you Right you you know someone's gonna are going to die a Mars death and some are going to live to a hundred years old and you know whatever that's not for you know see key first the kingdom and all else will be added our job is to seek his he's the one that decides what each individual's part you know all else is and I think what we you know it's reminded me again just in the scriptures Roger you know like we're in this world but we're not of this world there's this there's there's no doubt we're here but the perspective that we would hold and we can hold and that we are able to hold and we can press into hold is that reality, knowing there is more. for some people, I think when you have high ego, that feels really disempowering. I mean, this is in a sense as old as the garden to use that play. We wanted to be God. Now, I think here's how I explain that sometimes to people. You know, like I remember when I was working in school and you dissect human bodies and it was just a really profound experience for me. And I remember thinking like, you know, it's so funny, we're trying to figure out the body. I just came to this moment where I was like, that's the last thing we should try to do. The trillions and trillions of things happen every second. Like we couldn't do that. Like let God do that. Right? Like he allows us to participate and engage with him. And that is a miracle in itself. And there is the unbelievable experiences that you get to be of walking with Christ and being in communication. Like he told us to be, says they tarried in the garden communicating with God just like, just effortlessly almost, right? That's the original design, that level of communication with God. Now we've, you know, and we may get into this a little bit later. I mean, we have done a really good job of putting things between that voice. Dr. Ben Rall (52:43.652) putting things between us and God separating. And if you don't believe that that can be a living hell, then you are living under a rock. I the human suffering that's happening by the separation of people believing. So one of my concerns about where we're heading in this world, even though it's being built to us as a transhuman or like an improvement, It's undoubtedly a de-evolution. It's undoubtedly backwards. And what we will find ourselves is literally, I it's hard to even articulate how horrible it is because it's literally like, it's hell. It's the end of communicating with God. It's being ran by a robot. It's a new, it's all the things that words that we're just still learning how to describe it. And so, I think it's really important what you said about ego and I guess a warning for I'm not a warning but just a thought as people that are listening to this I know a lot of practitioners but doesn't matter we're all in this together. Ego can sneak in even against the best of intentions right? So I think that's why there's so many times it's why I wrote the if you will the devotional it's daily for a reason. We need to be reminded daily. There's a reason Jesus himself spent time with the Father every day. If there was a guy that probably didn't need to do it, it was probably him. But he did it. He still did it. Why? Because to show us, to teach us, to explore it. If we can find X amount of hours to be on a device, we can certainly find time to be with the Father communicating with the one that knows you and loves you. and wants only good things for you, godly things for you, the things of Him, the things of creation. Now it's gotten so muddy and separated that of course it's difficult to discern for some people. But it is important and because right now, the last thing I'll say, just be careful because the world really wants you to... Some people can take that scriptural example of greater, well, greater is he that is in you as one, but also even you will do greater things than I. Dr. Ben Rall (55:05.365) And that can very quickly become egotistical. And we don't have to do too much on that, but yeah. Dr. McFillin (55:13.016) So as you know, I'm writing this book right now. And sometimes I use the wrong words to describe experiences. It does. Like I always say the word channeled. Like I feel like it's a channeled book. But in reality, right, like I think people will probably just, if I use a different word, more connect with it. So we all feel creatively inspired. Like it's in our heart. Dr. Ben Rall (55:17.751) Get's you in trouble sometimes, Okay, yeah. Dr. McFillin (55:42.367) and you feel like you don't have a choice. Like when you got out of bed at four o'clock in the morning and listened to God's word, right? To me, like, okay, God channeled this through you, directed you to do, to write, designed to heal. And you probably won't look at it as channeled. It's just the communion you have with God, right? So I have this chapter, which reminded me what you're talking about with transhumanism and the smartphones and things of that nature. And it's called Remove the Interference. And it... Dr. Ben Rall (55:58.315) Yeah. Yeah. Dr. McFillin (56:11.69) relates to everything that causes interference that gets in the way of the divine union, of that connection to God, about being able to receive, to receive that energy, that life force, that love. And I make the claim that that is a root cause of disease, that the interference is the disease. Now that can come in form of a pharmaceutical, it could come in form of a toxin, it can come in form of a relationship, it can come in form of a belief, an idea, a consciousness. Dr. Ben Rall (56:30.76) Hm. Hm. Dr. Ben Rall (56:41.235) Yes. Dr. McFillin (56:41.716) It can come in the form of being in drift and consuming fear-based negative nonsense designed to keep you in fear and separated from God and in division against your brothers and sisters, right? All that is my word is just interference. And what I mean is interference for that energetic communion, divine connection with God who wants to work through you as a co-creator, true or false? Dr. Ben Rall (57:10.928) Yeah Yeah, I probably couldn't agree with that one much more. I don't think I I don't think I even have anything to add other than just You just heard Roger say, know, it's funny because that's it's an axiom that I feel like we've used a lot in carpetic is just remove the interference right we say the body knows what to do right just remove the interference, know, God does the healing that's a statement I'll say a lot of times and you know, it's a quip, but it's also just a deep truth. It's just true. All right, and we see that but here's So somebody might say, and this is where it gets so funny to me, where some people resist. I'm like, we understand that with nature, right? Stop poisoning the lake. Right now you could look at a sick lake because it's got toxins being dumped into it from a waste or over, know, pesticide overuse or something. And you could probably spend your whole life, gosh, that's just so much fun talking to you. I've always just enjoyed this. like, you know, you could study why are the trees have this disease now? And the this fish has this disease and it has this thing wrong with it. And you could spend a thousand years diagnosing all the problems with all of the things in the lake, on the lake, the people that eat the stuff from the lake, the stuff around the lake. But it has one, one cause and one cure. The cause of the problem is interference to the way God designed it. And the cure is removing that interference and it will restore itself to natural when the interference is removed. This is what people have a hard time with. sometimes with what I talk about, and what you talk about, because they think we're saying, you know, X, Y, doesn't exist, right? They think we're saying, disease isn't real. No, that's not what I'm saying. Suffering is real, you know, your migraine is real, whatever that means. What I'm saying is, I don't need to label it in order for it to heal, and I don't need to look about it, talk about it, think about it for it to heal. We just have to find out what's possibly interfering with just your natural design of your body that God gave you. And as we remove those things, the more that we learned to remove, now we've done really good at adding a lot of things to the interference. That bucket's gotten fuller, that bale's gotten thicker in that regard. And so in some ways, I'm so encouraged because when people start to think like that or see it like that, it can be really empowering because they realize, my gosh, if I get rid of some of that and some of that and remove that interference, Dr. Ben Rall (59:34.149) Man, the lakes just healthier, right? The fish bowl is cleaner. And so, I mean, if I had a prayer to approach healthcare, Roger, it would be what you just described, right? I mean, self-care or healthcare, whatever word we want to use, that's the perspective we need to have it. Because it comes from this truth, which is you're divinely designed to heal. Like you're not dumb. Your body's not an accident. And since it's not, and it's got a divinity to it, a design to it, an intelligence to it, a self-healing is to it, then our main job is just to find out how to interact with that appropriately, right? Self-interact and with each other. Dr. McFillin (01:00:15.609) Can I talk to you about a pet peeve I have? Can you be my therapist right now? Dr. Ben Rall (01:00:17.776) Sure, I'll be your therapist. It's just gonna say sure buddy. Sure. Yes, sir lay down that Dr. McFillin (01:00:24.332) Okay. I believe that part of the propaganda in our culture and our healthcare has been misrepresentation of what the word placebo means. And it's such a pet peeve of mine. I get so angry when I hear educated people misrepresent this. So we believe that placebo is fake. We've been told it's fake, it's not real. The drug, that's real. Whatever the intervention is, is the real thing and we're going against something that's fake. Because we've just been brainwashed to think about that way and we don't see our consciousness, our energy. So there's a researcher by the name of Fabrizio Benedetti. Dr. Ben Rall (01:01:10.074) There's implications to this though. Yes. Yes. Dr. McFillin (01:01:21.085) and he is from the University of Turin. I would imagine that's in Italy, I think. So he established that placebos, when compared to the act of drug, will then share a common biochemical pathway and activate the same receptor systems. So basically it's this. The placebo effects are not imagined. They become real neurochemical events. They are not fake. There's endogenous opioids, cannabinoids, dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, all measurably altered by the expectation and meaning. So the brain becomes a pharmacy. The question is what gives it the prescription? Right. And so of course, the placebo has no side effect. It doesn't harm. Right. The nocebo would. Right. Because that's the expectation of harm. And that can be created. But this idea, this speaks to what you described earlier, because I think it was you were referring to the oncologist, right? And what he was creating. He was an active creator as somebody who was part of the healing process. He was creating in consciousness, in belief system, and in expectation, a biological reaction, which includes killing cancer cells. And that we have this power. to do this. And why do we not do this? Dr. Ben Rall (01:02:53.834) Hmm. Not only is it a pet peeve, Roger, I think it's it's on the extreme end of one of the most blasphemous things we can do. Like I think it's beyond it angers me so much. remember having a conversation matter of fact, I think you know, you've I think you've referenced him. He wrote a book, you know, remember, you know, Irving Kirsch, right? Kirsch with I think, Empress Coast. I was at an event with him one time and he was talking about placebo, right? I mean, it's part of his book. and I was having the similar thought to you and I was wrestling with it because it was acting like this was basically this drug is as good as nothing. I'm like that doesn't that's not the story and so I was able to have a conversation with him later and I said doc what I need to understand is what you just described I said it's not that they're just imagining they're better like is the physiology changed and he goes yeah it changes I said well that's not then you should probably clarify and I'm not throwing him under the bus. I'm very thankful for him. I've a lot of respect for Dr. Kersh. I'm simply saying it really matters because it tells us a different story that has implications on how we view healing. is why, Roger, this is where it's been perverted again. There's people that will, I just can't imagine practicing this way. Like I could go look at an X-ray, maybe somebody and they've got really bad arthritis and it's weird. could be like, you know, you know, you've got really bad degeneration here and You know, it'll probably just hurt forever. You know, it's just kind of, you know, it's downhill now, you know, it's what happens or getting old and we have these conversations and nearly I'm sorry, man, there's really nothing, nothing you can do. And, you know, and then he would, and this is, this is the pervertedness of it, Roger. This is how we've, where we've come to a lot of people would be like, thanks for just being honest with me, doc. Thanks for just shooting me straight. Thanks for not giving me false hope. Thanks for not, you know, just telling me. And I'm like, that is the opposite of what we are supposed to do. What I'm, who am I to tell that person? Because again, back to our very beginning of this conversation, I remember learning this, you can't, I could not show you an x-ray, Roger, and you cannot tell me if that person is in pain or not. It's impossible to experience that person is having. You can't look at an x-ray, and you might be saying, it looks like their hip might hurt. It looks really nasty in there. Dr. McFillin (01:04:58.009) Mm. Dr. Ben Rall (01:05:18.6) But I can show you X-rays of people with degeneration and phase three and lot no disks and fusing all over and they're doing absolutely spectacular. It doesn't to your point earlier. It doesn't tell the whole story. It challenges the narrative if we're going to call that truth. So I'm not going to play that game. So to your point, I think a little bit about placebo. We need to understand what we're really talking about is the absolute unbelievable, incredible healing power that's inside of you. Don't even call it a placebo anymore. And matter of fact, we give so much more credit to synthetic manmade chemicals. We overstate those implications and then we massively, zillions of times understate the incredible healing capacity placebo, the sustaining life force. Okay, right? What a dumb, to relegate that down to the word placebo drives me crazy. I understand what they think they're doing. I get it. But my goodness. Dr. McFillin (01:06:19.034) All right, before I get off my high horse, and of course, I got an ego and I got to keep that in check. But I think it comes from a place of love. And this feels radical. I understand that people sometimes see this as radical, but I see our current medical system as an agent, weapon of war. And I feel like I have good evidence to support it. mean, God, chronic disease, the epidemic of chronic disease, everyone getting sicker, the harm that's done. Dr. Ben Rall (01:06:21.211) Alright, let it rip. Dr. McFillin (01:06:49.188) Just folks hear me out, the nocebo effect again. When medicine harms with words, most people know the placebo is real, but fewer people talk about its dark mirror, which is the nocebo. So when a physician tells a patient that you have a terminal diagnosis, when they deliver prognosis, when they say you'll never walk again, what I'm telling you is that's a biological intervention. You as a co-creator are creating that scenario. Dr. Ben Rall (01:07:14.568) Mm. Dr. McFillin (01:07:19.822) by creating an unconsciousness. And the evidence says that this can cause the very outcome it describes. Docs out there in the system, I know you were taught to be God. You are not God. You are limited. And so you are influencing people negatively with your diagnoses, with your prognosis, with your limited knowledge. So this comes from a place, I mean, it comes from... anger and I understand it but I think it's justifiable anger and it ultimately comes from love because I think we need to be able to tell clearly that the nocebo effect is physiologically real and is lethal. Dr. Ben Rall (01:08:00.953) Roger life and death in the power of the tongue. It matters what we say. Words matter in the beginning was the word. This is critical. Much of what you're talking about is essentially sorcery. It's you're speaking spells into people and we need to understand that and we need to be very, very careful. What we say and so I am going to air and I'm say that in quotes on the side of this. God is God. And I absolutely believe you can heal. And I give a really simple example of this that I think helps people because then they think, Oh, how do you know? I don't know. That's the point to some degree. That's why I would never tell them they're going to die. That's why I would never tell them this is forever for them. That's why I would never tell them there's nothing that can be done. Good thing nobody told, you know, the examples of the guys earlier that healed from paralysis that or they choose to at least not to believe that. Thank goodness. Well, we have to we have to reconcile or remember or consider is the magnitude of the power that those words have on them. I was a marriage counselor, I use this example, right? And all you want me to be thinking about for you is restoration of your marriage. It's all you want me to think about. You don't need me to be like, this is a really bad one. He did what? You know what? You know, like all you want my brain as a, as a helper for your life is believing it can be restored. That's all. It's Matter fact, it's the only thing that's actually beneficial for you is for me to hold that line for you. indefinitely. And so as healers, if we're going to even call them, if we were going to put ourselves in that category to mean we work in healing and healthcare, then we're almost commanded to have that perspective. And now of course, it's been perverted and twisted and we celebrate again, it's backwards, right? We celebrate the person that's like, Whoa, you'll be dead in six months. Like, like they're like, we're like, wow, what a brilliant, thanks for telling me doc. Dr. Ben Rall (01:10:12.041) right and there's plenty of studies that show that the power of those words and how many people die at or near their death date that they were given right I mean it's it's it's heartbreaking so yeah we could probably stay in that on that all day but again so I'll say this you know not only Roger though so important the words that others or we may speak into people rest assured much of this is your own self-talk matter of fact the the founder of chiropractic, a gentleman by name of D.D. Palmer, he used the term auto-suggestion. And although chiropractic is known mostly as cracking backs and things, he said 95 % of what he believed disease was, was due to auto-suggestion. The way we think and talk to ourselves. That's why it's important to know scripture, to know what God says about know who you are in Christ, understand your identity, you're fearfully and wonderfully made, created in likeness and image of God. I'm not walking around in fear, my kids is one example, my kids have never been vaccinated, they don't take drugs, anything like that. I'm not walking around like, I didn't vaccinate my kids. I hope they're going to be okay. Like that's not my worldview. like, I don't have fear in that. I'm not walking around waiting for disease to strike me and take me down. My mantra, my meditation is I'm creating likeness and inner God, a fearfully, wonderfully made. He watches over me. He watches, he beats my heart. He breathes my lungs. He sees my eyes. He knows the hairs on my head. That is the only reality that I choose to live in. Dr. McFillin (01:11:38.316) All right, for those who are listening who maybe don't have this connection to God in the way that Dr. Ben does or the way that I'm speaking about, maybe you didn't grow up religious, maybe you are questioning some of these things. I said earlier that the veil has been thinned between science and these teachings. So there is a systematic review that was published in Frontiers. And it concluded that practitioner characteristics, specific practitioner characteristics influenced the healing capacity of the individual. Okay, and here they are empathy expressed warmth, competence and the belief the practitioner holds about the patient's capacity to heal. And this is exactly what you've been saying since the day I met you. and it's what you're communicating today on this podcast. And so when when when Dr. Ben says he comes in and he believes fully in the patient's capacity to heal, it's not because he's being optimistic or Pollyanna ish. First of all, he believes it and he knows it and it's his truth, but to be in this position, like it is a diet, is a tool, it is an intervention, it is healing capacity, and we have science now to support this. Dr. Ben Rall (01:13:15.14) Roger, think about those attributes that you just said. We've talked about faith here today a bit and a lot a bit. If there's anybody that embodied those, what you just described, Christ as an example, empathy. I'm thinking about the woman at the well. When he sees us differently, of course he has empathy. He understands. Right? He knew what that woman had been through. He knew what had gone on in her life. He knew her better than she knew her. And you know, the, the, the concern and the belief that he, of course, he knows she can heal. Of course he knows she can be restored, redeemed, forgiven, whatever the different words that are required. So I think when we're looking at what we're again, what you just described in some ways is really just again, the, the characteristics that we would all want to have. Right? As a human, mean, regardless of even as a healer, empathy, the value that that holds. I think, that is not only powerful to hear, but important to remember, right? Because this is not, this is not foo-foo. This isn't like light. This could be the difference between that person in front of you healing or not healing. Dr. McFillin (01:14:43.067) I think you and I are put on the earth to make sure that people internalize this and know this and become this. I really do. believe that. Are you good with time? Because I have two studies that I think are fascinating and I think our audience here is going to find it fascinating as well. All right. This is 1975. Okay. And to me, like these things would in a just world that wasn't trying to prevent this information from being well known. Dr. Ben Rall (01:14:54.182) Yeah. Yeah. Dr. McFillin (01:15:11.899) Like we learned this in school, right? But we don't, of course. 1975, Robert Ader at the University of Rochester accidentally discovered something that is fascinating because it rewrites like what we know to be true about genetics. He was conditioning rats using saccharin water paired with an immunosuppressive drug. And then eventually found that the saccharin alone, that water, could suppress the immune function so powerfully that some of the animals died. So basically the nervous system had learned to suppress immunity. And so the implications of this are not that dissimilar, but extend beyond like Pavlov's dogs. So they proved direct communication between the nervous system and the immune system, like shattering the previous assumption that immunity was like autonomous. So the brain can instruct the immune system by extension, like what we think, what we believe, what we expect and feel is being transmuted into our immune cells in real time. So the healing environment, internal and external, is not separate from the immune response, it's part of it. It's the whole, right? And this led to the founding of psych neuroimmunology as a field, it became formalized. And of course, it's been extended greatly. Candice Pertt, the molecules of emotion, right? Discovery of neuropeptide receptors throughout the entire body. fundamentally changes the map of human biology. So emotions are not brain events. They're these whole body events and every organ system has these receptors for chemistry of emotional experience. you know, it asked a question like, what does that mean then for the claim that emotional and spiritual states are relevant to physical healing? they are primary, right? She found that opioid. receptors not only in the brain, but throughout the gut, the immune system, every major organ. So she proposed the body's neuro-tepta, neuropeptide system, like the molecules of emotion constitute an almost like a second nervous system running parallel with the classical one that we think of. like emotional states are critical, joy, grief, fear, love. Like these are not just metaphors, they're chemistries and they're reaching every cell in the body in real time. Dr. Ben Rall (01:17:30.739) There was a study, I think I might have read it, maybe the holographic universe or one of these books, but they did a study where they told people that they were giving them this crazy, it was a long time ago that they wouldn't be able really do this now. But some people were getting, they were getting chemotherapy and then another group was getting water, saline. And a lot of the people that got saline, water, their hair also fell out. Dr. McFillin (01:17:52.748) right. I heard that's yes. Dr. Ben Rall (01:17:53.717) Right? So, I share this because people think that they lose their hair because of cancer. You don't lose your hair because of cancer, you lose your hair because of the chemotherapy they give you to treat cancer. But people believe they were getting chemotherapy since they believed that they thought they were having, they think they've been conditioned to leave when I get chemotherapy, my hair falls out. And so a lot of these people that were getting that, and there's numerous examples and different studies and a great book about this is called The Expectation Effect. So there's a lot of these different. things that could happen. did another study, this was published in The Lancet. They used to do studies on people before they were going to be executed for capital punishment. They told this guy they were going to be cut on the back of his neck and that was going to bleed him out. All they did is when they went to do that, just nicked him in the back, didn't even hardly bleed, and they just poured a warm liquid down his back and he died within two to three minutes. He died the same way that you physiologically would die if you bled to death, even though he didn't lose a drop of blood. Dr. McFillin (01:18:49.709) Wow. Dr. Ben Rall (01:18:50.294) What that's Lance, this is medical journal. If you want to, if you need that to believe something, but I say this because it's to, to miss that is you who probably are listening to this and want to have a, a vitalistic, a vital life of love and serving and family and all the things that you're doing. Then to not have a deep appreciation for the point that Roger's making right now through this, this research and understanding. I don't even know, interplay is the word, just the interconnectedness, the oneness that is psychoneuromaniology. These things can't not affect each other. And if you don't believe this, just think if you got your phone rang right now and you picked it up and you answered it and was somebody delivering you devastating news, a loved one was dead or something like this, right? Or maybe how we all felt when we saw Charlie Kirk's, whatever example. We have sound waves hitting our eardrum, right, through a phone. They give you a massive instant physiological response. You might faint, you might get sick, your blood pressure goes up because of little sound waves hitting your eardrum and the by your body response to that. Now just imagine how many people are living in a feared response. They're waiting for the bottom to fall off. They're imagining the worst. That's their worldview and I'm just saying entertain and See, this is what, again, what people will say though. They'll say, you're just like you said, Roger earlier, this isn't just Pollyanna wishful thinking, having a good attitude. is an understanding of how important it is that you know that you're fearfully and wonderfully made that greater is he that is in you, that he is in the world, that, you know, you're, have a loving divine creation and purpose here versus woe is me. Dr. McFillin (01:20:34.008) Yeah. Dr. Ben Rall (01:20:47.088) bad luck bad genes to study you just said that just trumps on the genetic code you know attempt at at describing us and so it's so important to know these things Dr. McFillin (01:20:58.339) This brings up for me about the purposeful genetic lie as a weapon of war. When they tell you that you are determined by your genes, like you no say, right? Which is clearly unscientific. That's purposeful to creating consciousness that you are to attain an outcome that someone in your family had been able to attain. It provokes fear. and it creates a nocebo effect. So see that as a weapon of war because it is. Speaking of cancer, have you ever heard of Kelly Turner's research? Dr. Ben Rall (01:21:32.656) Refresh me, maybe. Dr. McFillin (01:21:33.87) She's a Harvard trained researcher. She analyzed over 1000 documented cases of, you'll love the word, cancer spontaneous remission. Right? That's it. Spontaneous remission. All right. So this is cases where cancer disappeared without conventional treatment or despite, you know, despite treatment that was considered inadequate to produce that the results. So she went to 10 countries and interviewed 50 holistic healers. Dr. Ben Rall (01:21:41.574) also known as healing. Dr. Ben Rall (01:21:50.287) Impossible. Dr. McFillin (01:22:02.392) and the survivors themselves. And she was pulling together the common threats. And what she found should be front page news, because they should be part of our healing centers. But we have a sick care system. We don't have healing centers. So of more than 75 healing factors Turner identified, nine appeared consistently across all cases. Okay. Now they included some factors around removing interference. and diet was one of them. They changed their diet, but one of the most here are the most important ones. They assumed control of their health by following intuition, but also they're developed a deepening spiritual or religious practice. They released suppressed emotions. They embraced social support and the interconnectedness that exists in these relationships, relationships with healing. And they cultivated strong reasons for living. So the materialist interventions versus like consciousness or spiritual interventions, you know, are now being measured against each other. And so what she says is there's nothing spontaneous about these remissions. Patients were actively doing something to facilitate healing. The medical system just never asks what. Dr. Ben Rall (01:23:36.111) And imagine me what and I this is I would say we could and should do much better than this So I don't fully mean it the way I'm gonna say it but my goodness other than harm to pharmaceuticals bottom line What harm in there is everybody knowing those nine things? To be able to navigate and to appreciate and to say gosh it really matters. I'm thinking Roger at the same time, right that we're being told that we're in an epidemic of loneliness in this world, in this country, literally by our government for what it's worth saying that. I sit here and I think, then you're telling me that embracing social support is one of the top nine through lines and threads through a healing, which most people would say they're afraid of cancer. And the fact that we can live in that, have both of those things positioned as it's no wonder we're seeing turbo cancers. It's why when we go back to the COVID times, it was so obviously a an attempt to destroy the spirit of the human, the spirit of God. You know, from closing churches, right? I mean, my scriptures say lay hands on the sick, they shall recover. And yet we shut down churches and hid from each other. It was such an obvious opposite. Antichrist, to use your term earlier. mean, anything against God by definition is the antichrist. So when we are doing those things, we are participating in. whether it's anti-Christ behavior or however you want to describe that. And so when I sit and I listen to that, this is why I think people, they don't understand, think Roger, as you know, know the podcast is called Radically Genuine, but I think that we also, these conversations, they're radically empowering. Like it's not this, I'm not gonna do what they said. And so I just, hope things work out okay for me over here. Right? Those nine things that you just said will radically transform your life in a beautiful, beautiful way. So it's like, it's like better over here. Okay, it's like, it's a good, it's a beautiful place to live. It's a better perspective. It's a it's a higher Dr. McFillin (01:25:44.665) Thank you. Dr. Ben Rall (01:25:53.388) perspective. It's no different than maybe when we were kids and we have a breakup with our girlfriend or boyfriend and our parents, all come in and they go, they say some version of it's going to be okay and there's other fish in the sea or whatever, right? And we don't believe them at the time, right? We go, well, what I really loved, you know, right? And then, you know, years later we realized, right? What's happened is there's been such an attempt to not have these conversations, these radically genuine conversations that we've almost stopped having them. It's the reason why they want the whole world vaccinated, because then there's not a control group anymore of the unvaccinated. So we don't know what normal is. We don't know what healthy can be. We don't know what natural is because we've perverted it all. And so when we are what you just described through some of those studies, this is this is your way out of the matrix. Dr. McFillin (01:26:51.32) Mm. Dr. Ben Rall (01:26:51.934) This is your way out of transhumanism, artificial intelligence, whatever words will be used. This is real and this is your connection to God and divine. And it's power. Power that you need to wield responsibly. Power that you need to wield for the benefit of others. And it's... It allows you to serve in a very high capacity your brothers and sisters and bring them with you. Dr. McFillin (01:27:33.122) Ben, I'm going to release this episode on Holy Thursday and I want this to be the final study. And I'll be honest, I think I pulled this originally from one of Joe Dispenza's books. And so I went back into it this morning, into details. And it's around prayer. And this is a fascinating, fascinating study. Dr. Ben Rall (01:27:37.801) farewell Dr. McFillin (01:28:03.149) It's called the retroactive prayer trial from 2001. A paper was published in the British Medical Journal, which is one of the most prestigious medical journals in the world that showed remote retroactive intercessory prayer improved outcomes in patients with blood infections. Now I want to go into the methodology here because this is the most fascinating aspect of this. I want to make sure I get it right because it's that important. So Larry Dosey, physician and former chief of staff at Medical City Dallas Hospital, he spent his career documenting the non-local consciousness effects and healing. So his argument is consciousness is not produced by the brain and confined to the skull. It's a fundamental feature of reality. And if that's true, even partially, then the boundaries of medicine Dr. Ben Rall (01:28:42.856) Mm-hmm. Dr. McFillin (01:29:00.236) has drawn around the healing encounter are radically incomplete. So the practitioner's intention, the patient's faith, the prayers of a loved one, even at a distance, all of these may be operating through a mechanism we do not yet have the instrument sensitive enough to fully measure. Okay, so here is what happened. I'm gonna, patience here with me for a second because. I want to go over the specifics of this. is... Dr. McFillin (01:29:41.4) Here's the methodology. The design was double-blind, parallel group, randomized controlled trials, which is the gold standard of medical research, by the way. The patient pool, which is large, 3,393 adult patients whose bloodstream affection was detected at Rabin Medical Center between 1990 and 1996. Okay, so I want to tell you what this means. This study occurred in 2001. These people had already been hospitalized, treated, and either recovered or died. So the events were over, but all the records existed in the hospital database. So here's the intervention. Four to 10 years after the patients had been ill, the researcher, Leibovitchi Vitchi, used a random number generator to divide the 3,393 patients into two groups. A prayer was then said for the wellbeing and recovery of the intervention group. So the prayer was offered by a single individual who was given a list of first names only, then he prayed. Okay? So there's a blinding effect here. It's perfect. The patients were long since discharged and had no idea the study existed. The medical staff who had treated them in 1990 to 1996 had no idea. The outcomes had already been recorded. So no one in the hospital system in 2000 knew which patients had been assigned to which group. It was by design impossible to contaminate. Okay. So three things were examined then for outcomes, mortality during the hospitalization, the length of stay in the hospital and the duration of the fever. So that means people in the year 2000, a person in the year 2000 was praying for people back in time. All right, why do they believe this? The person said God doesn't exist in time or space. So they're trying to measure if prayer in the future had an impact on the past, right? Which is fascinating. And guess what happened? Dr. McFillin (01:31:47.286) The results, the mortality rate was less in the intervention group than the control group. This one did not reach a statistical significance, but it was close, very close, a P value of 0.4. But all the other outcomes were statistically significant. The length of stay in the hospital and duration of fever were significantly shorter in the intervention group than the control group. To be precise, the hospital stay was statistically significantly shorter in the prayer group, meaning there was less than a one in 100 probability that this was by chance, less than 1%. The duration of fever, same thing. And both are conventionally accepted thresholds for statistical significance in medical research. And then of course, less people died in the prayer group. So here was the researchers. own conclusion from this study. And this is remarkable because he did not hedge or bury his conclusions. He basically said remote, even retroactive intercessory prayer said for a group is associated with a shorter stay in a hospital, a shorter duration of the illness, and an improvement in those who are going to survive that bloodstream infection. and should be considered for use in clinical practice. He then added these sentences that should stop all of us cold right here. No mechanism known today can account for the effects of the remote retroactive and accessory prayer set for the group of patients with a bloodstream infection. He did not claim to know how it worked. If you want to question if Dr. Ben Rall, what he's saying here, it's home. Dr. Ben Rall (01:33:27.715) you Dr. McFillin (01:33:39.82) that he's not a prophet in some of this areas. I believe he is. He's speaking to us. It doesn't matter. He did not claim to know how it worked. He just reported that prayer worked and his reasoning for the retroactive design was stated explicitly in this paper as we cannot assume a priori a priori that time is linear as we perceive it or that God is limited by linear time as we are. The intervention was carried out four to ten years after the patient's infection and hospitalization. This is important. Communion, energetic communion with God matters in healing outcomes. So I want to end this on Holy Thursday. I want to know then your power, the prayer used in your work, your communion with God and and how you use it and any then final statements on today's Dr. Ben Rall (01:34:46.132) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love the work of Larry Das. He's got a great book. I think it's literally called Power Prayer, Healing Power Prayer. It's a real book. You can buy it. I haven't read it. It's important work. Because of even talking about it on Holy Thursday, here is the word that I would want to introduce into this for people. And it's as incredible as what you just described is. I'm going to try to put it in a wheelbarrow for us a little bit because it almost sounds unbelievable. number one, the word I would use is redeemed. One of the definitions of redeem is literally to go back. Okay. It, it, it, it's redeeming it. It goes back and undoes something. It changes things. It's redeemed. It's, know, I once was lost, but now I'm found. But think about it like this. We, We live this all of the time in how we heal. The fact that I could be sick, I'm using air quotes right now, and in a week from now, I'm healed, that's a miracle to some people. But I actually like what you've been saying, Roger, it's maybe, sometimes when we say miracle, it allows us to just discount it, like we have no involvement, right? Like there's nothing, like it was a passive, situation. I think this study shows us is we're constantly the facts that our bodies are self-healing, self-regulating organisms, need no help, just no interference, is an expression of just basically endless redeeming. And what happened during this Passion Week and the Resurrection and thinking of Easter or Passover or whatever term that you use, this is a reminder of the greatest redemption that ever happened. Dr. Ben Rall (01:36:52.922) And so don't ever underestimate and this study gives us undeniable to the best we can say undeniable proof of the power of prayer communicating to the one that made you and loves you more than you even did. And he's outside of time and space, if anything that should encourage you in practical practice for me, I will share with you just some things and then we can. wind down. In my office, before we ever open our doors, every single shift for patient care, we are my staff and I are back in the back room and we pray. Every day and a different person prays. It's not just me. I don't have the magic, right? It's just because I just believe what happens when you pray. I don't believe in this study that it was some super prayer person. It was just a person praying. I've even seen studies where they have different people of different faiths praying and they have the same outcomes. They had people were touched, right? They had Native Americans pray saying how they do that and stuff like that. So we pray for every shift and we don't sometimes we pray specific, but we just pray for every patient that will walk through those doors that they will feel the love that they will experience those things, all the things that we're talking about today. I genuinely mean this. I will not open my doors before I do that. I will not. don't. don't. It's too important to me to do that. then as well as that is an active practice and this might be for some people, but I absolutely pray for my patients many times a day. And I just simply ask them, do you mind if I pray for you? And thousands of times, tens of thousands of times I've done that, I've had a couple of people that have said no, but almost everybody has said yes. And even the ones that say no, I can still pray for them in my spirit and lay hands on them and pray for them. I couldn't imagine not praying for them. As I listened to the study that you just said, Roger, and it's very pure. It's really just a reminder. I pray I'll just even share my prayer most of the time. says, listen, there's one physician, it is not me. There's a great healer. We give you all glory if you choose to use this office or this visit or this experience for their healing. We give you all the glory. You every cell, every tissue, every leg, every muscle, every nerve. You know exactly what's going on with this person. Dr. Ben Rall (01:39:16.513) Do not need my help. if you want to use it, we give you all the word. Bless my friends. Bless this person in front me. Bless their family. Bless the things you've called them to do, watch over their life. Protect them from any work of the enemy. We pray this all in the name of Jesus. That's my prayer. It's almost every, it's almost, sometimes there's specifics for things that I feel like I'm supposed to pray, but that's the prayer. I don't have to muster it up. It's not something that I have to work hard at. It's just simply an expression of the truth and a reminder. That person that was praying for their blood and their infections, wasn't, you don't have to get in some, you know, you know, incredible place to be able to deliver that prayer. The act of obedience is that. You don't have to be in the mood even. Okay, now there's there's there's realities to that. Sure. It's not the point of today. And the only reason that we often wouldn't do it is one of a couple of things. One is we're afraid of what they'll think. And I will say this to that. I guess I've crossed over to the other side where I'm afraid if I don't. I'll share one story and I'll get a little emotional. This staff member in my office, this is a really sweet young girl, a staff member, very quiet, very shy. she just, so we struggled a lot, you know, just getting her to like, you know, talk to patients and engage with people. She would just kind of like to hide. And, and I had this patient I've been taking care of for a while and she very serious health issue, feeding tube in her and they didn't, you know, told her she was going to die. You know, just a tough situation. through a lot. Been through a lot of stuff. one day, this girl came in and my staff member just was very unlike her. She just felt very compelled to go up to her and talk to her and prayed for her and just said, I'm just supposed to tell you that God loves you. And this would be very out of balance for my staff member to do that. Or not out of balance for me. Like, I encourage that, that's not her. She'd never done that before. We'll come to find out. Dr. Ben Rall (01:41:16.725) that girl shared with us later that she had come and her plan was to come one last time to say goodbye and she was planning to take her life. And she had been sitting in the parking lot saying, God, if you're real, if this isn't your plan, give me a sign. And then she walks in the office and my staff just feels compelled to walk over and say that to her. Like, see, here's my point. I'm way more afraid, if that's a word to use, I'm way more concerned that I'd miss that opportunity than to possibly, if you will, offend somebody by offering to pray for them to the God of the universe, to whatever that study is that you just described. My concern is missing that opportunity. So my encouragement to the listeners here today, to the practitioners, to the people, has really nothing to do with whether your title is just land on the side, which side do you want to land on? Which? Where do you want to put your faith? one that made you that created you that loves you that redeems you that can do anything that's outside of time and space that's perfect love and light? God or or some man made? Junked up creation that's does not have your best interest. At heart at all. If anything, it's. really actually nefarious or I guess we could call anti-Christ. This is a great time to reflect on that season. This is a great time to consider your relationship with your creator. This is a great time to pause and to meditate and to offer up a prayer. Even if it's a prayer like that girl who sat in the parking lot and said, you're real, show me. Maybe you've been hurt beyond and some of today's conversation maybe seemed even uncomfortable to you or a little bit something and Dr. Ben Rall (01:43:09.823) I would just say that if the fact that it invoked some feelings in you is important, the fact that something spiked, whether it was offense or gratitude, you may have found yourself welling up with tears, may have found yourself having a moment of clarity, I would just pray don't ignore that. I feel like this was a very... Staker by fact my family's been teasing me a little bit about you know, knew we were scheduled for this week and they were like, you know, like what are you guys gonna talk about, you know, right? And I said, and they were just teasing me because I was so excited about doing this podcast and they've never really seen me like get that prepared for a podcast, you know, right? And, and you know, just making sure I was home and ready and prepared and because I knew it was going to be important. Cause there's not many that are really ready to have the, it really is a radically genuine conversation. I would hope that it's a divine conversation that has brought in hopefully the Spirit of God to this conversation to people's hearts and it changes everything matter of fact apparently can even change the past which is an unbelievable thought but a beautiful thought a beautiful thought last thing I'll say it says when when Christ died for our sins in the in the in that was we're thinking about it this week it literally was even in that moment Roger He literally tells us that it was for the sins that had happened. It's in a reminder that he himself went back. It's for all of time. It's hard for us to understand that, but it's a reminder of what you just shared. And thank goodness for that. And some of that's hard to explain, hard to understand, and hard to put in a book, and hard to wrap our heads around. That's okay. It can still be true. It can still be true. Dr. McFillin (01:44:57.065) This was very meaningful conversation. I felt the Holy Spirit present. This is being released on Holy Thursday. I want to wish the audience of a holy week, regardless of whether you're Christian, whether you're Jewish, whether you're questioning. This transcends this. think the messages that were discussed today transcend any particular dogma because it was one of love and it was one of connection to a loving God that's much bigger and greater than you. And when I look at the awakening that's happening, especially across the United States, and we start looking at numbers, there is an awakening to... to a spiritual connection to a divine force that's greater than all of us. formalized religion has all different kinds of like... negative and difficult histories for some people because like any organization of like human creation, you know, it's done great harm at places throughout history and it can also be a tool of the darkness and that's not what today was about. Today was just about our body's innate capacities to heal the loving power of a force so much greater than us. And what is probably most important is the role that you can play. And you don't have to be a chiropractor. You don't have to be a surgeon, a physician, a psychologist. We're just, talking about you as playing a role in the healing of another person by your presence and your attitude and your belief, your caring, your empathy and your love. And that is powerful and it's a powerful message. And I know that's difficult to cut through the static and the noise. Dr. McFillin (01:47:07.08) that has been interference for all of us in how we see our capacity for the human body to flourish and the spirit to flourish. We've injected with vaccines, we're pushed pharmaceuticals, genetic determinism, and most important ideas, belief systems that fit under the umbrella of the nocebo that is harms. They are weapons. They are weapons of war. the pharmaceutical industrial complex, the psychiatric industrial complex. These are weapons of war against human flourishing. They are anti-life. They're transhumanist and they're anti-life. And that's what we're coming up against in this shift, this time that is occurring as we shine light on the darkness. It's about a resurrection. I believe it. I do. I think the message from this week in particular is powerful to meditate on. not for you to create it in your mind, but to sit in silence. And I ask everybody to do that, to find time to just be present and in communion. And I believe if you ask, you will receive, because that is what I have experienced when I ask, I receive. not my mind, not my ego, not my desire or wanting to know more than the next, just a desire for wisdom and love and knowing that there is a creator that wants to provide that through me in his name for the goodness of humanity for me and everyone I connect with. And Dr. Ben, you're one of the wisest people I know. I value your friendship and your guidance. I think that an episode like today will get shared because this is how it works. When that level of energy is present and it goes through the airwaves and it hits somebody, they share it with somebody who needs it. And I always said when I was going into this, when I just started the Radically Genuine podcast, I said, if this helps one person, my life was worth it. Dr. McFillin (01:49:30.452) And I think conversations like this are going to help more than just one person. So I'm very, very grateful for you and for such a radically genuine conversation today. Dr. Ben Rall (01:49:41.427) Amen. Thank you.