Latest / The Delicious Culture with Jon Francois / Creativity & Innovation Are Delicious w/ Mari Reisberg

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Creativity & Innovation Are Delicious w/ Mari Reisberg · The Delicious Culture with Jon Francois

0:00
Instead of like selling apples the usual way
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throughout the month of October, shaping the
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apples like jack -o' -lanterns, painting them
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orange and putting all the decorations. Is that,
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would that be an example of an apple entrepreneur
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taking advantage of creativity or am I just going
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crazy? No, absolutely. That would be it. But
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it could also be, I am going to design and I'm
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going to cross an apple with a pumpkin and see
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if I can get an apple to grow that tastes like
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a pumpkin. That's another version of creativity.
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It's this version of, I'm going to think of the
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world's worst idea. and turn it into the best
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idea. Mari, I am so dumb, because like I told
1:09
you just before we started recording, I was reading
1:12
out of your info here that you sent me. You have
1:15
a BFA from the Heart School in acting. Two things
1:18
that we have in common. One, I also have dabbled
1:22
in acting. I didn't finish my bachelor's degree,
1:24
but I did do enough of that where you could say,
1:29
partial halfway bachelor's degree. Well, you
1:32
know what, a bachelor's degree in theater and
1:35
a communication and minor. No, a bachelor's degree
1:38
in theater with a minor in communication. That's
1:41
the right way to word that. Yeah. So I started
1:45
a BFA at the University of the Arts in Philadelphia,
1:48
which is not existing anymore. And then I finished
1:50
up with a theater and communication thing at
1:53
Eastern Connecticut State University. So Hart
1:55
School, you happened to be settled in my hometown
1:57
of West Hartford. That's where you got your BFA.
2:00
That is a long time ago. Yes. But it was amazing.
2:07
And now it's even more amazing. I went there
2:10
before their new building was constructed. So.
2:14
Yeah. And how has the new building changed things?
2:17
I hope for the better. Absolutely. I mean, when
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I went there, we were having theater class in
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old mansions that were really cold. And now they
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actually have theaters that they get double class
2:30
in and rehearsal space and, you know. It's come
2:35
a long way since I was there. Mari, one could
2:39
argue that the cold wakes you up and gets you
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ready for the theatrical performance that you
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need to put out there. I love that perspective.
2:48
And it was just cold. Who wants to be at 8 a
2:51
.m. sitting in the old classroom trying not to
2:54
fall asleep? I mean, come on, you're 19 trying
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to... participate and pay attention. The cold
3:02
will certainly keep you awake at 8 a .m. and
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may I argue it's also good because when you're
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on stage those stage lights can be pretty pretty
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hot and they got to keep the theater cold anyway
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to balance that out so might I say they were
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training you for a long career in cold theaters.
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In cold theaters fine you've won me over that
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perspective you win. Tell me about your BFA experience,
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because I'll just give a brief snapshot of mine.
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I was a big fish in a small pond in my high school
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theater department. So because I just happened
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to do well with acting classes, theater productions,
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I thought, all right, acting must be what I'm
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going to do with my life. I'm going to seek that
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in college. So I went to the... And I also went
3:50
to high school in Connecticut, by the way. You're
3:52
familiar with Hall High School in West Hartford?
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far from the hard school? Yep. That's where I
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went to high school. Yeah. Also a long time ago.
4:02
But I went to the University of the Arts of Philadelphia
4:05
for my BFA in acting and almost immediately,
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you know, because of personal stuff with family
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and also because... It's a very different kind
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of intensity compared to a high school program.
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Uh, wow. Oh my God. Like, you know, the intensity
4:21
of the, the Meisner technique when you're learning
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that for acting, for those of you who don't know,
4:25
it's a method acting technique where you're really
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giving, I would say a lot more of yourself as
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opposed to whatever characters you're bringing
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to the table in an emotional sense. And, um,
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I just, I think with the personal stuff that
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I was going through at the time and just not
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really figuring out my emotions well enough as
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a teenager going into young adulthood, I struggled.
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I dropped out after three semesters. And oddly
4:53
enough, when I transferred to Eastern Connecticut
4:55
State University to finish up with a theater
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communication degree, it was a sequel to high
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school in that I went from, oh my God, I would
5:04
never act again. This frightens me with all this
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Meisner stuff to, oh, wait a minute. acting can
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be fun again. So what's your BFA? Because I hear
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BFA as opposed to BA and I think, oh God, that
5:17
could either be very fulfilling or very intense.
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I would say all of the above. It was everything.
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I grew up in Oregon and went to college in Connecticut,
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but between high school and college, I toured
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with a theater company, an aerial dance and physical
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theater company. off Broadway, California, Washington
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State, and then went to college. So I'd already
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had a year of kind of life under my belt heading
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into a BFA program. And so I think that year,
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kind of that gap year, so to speak, really helped
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me step into a BFA program of high intensity.
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They ask a lot of their students. But there were
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also times where it really felt like summer camp
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because I didn't, I wasn't taking like math and
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science and I did eventually have to take a math
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class, which felt really odd being a theater
6:18
major, but those were the requirements of the
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university. So that's what we did. But in the,
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the action classes, you're right. We did. I think
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our very first assignment, our freshman year,
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was an anger and tears monologue where we either
6:33
had to be angry or cry. And yeah, that was intense.
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And then we had to write a 30 page autobiography
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of ourselves. And that was also really intense.
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And that was kind of the introduction to this
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program. And I don't know. fully kind of grasped
6:56
the challenges or the traumas that were happening
7:06
until I went and got my degree in psychology
7:09
and then could look back and say, ah, that was
7:13
really messed up. That should not have been happening.
7:17
So, you know, there were things that professors
7:22
were doing to elicit a reaction or response for
7:27
actors on stage or in rehearsal or in class that
7:31
were incredibly traumatizing and no one was there
7:34
to help us pack everything up before you were
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sent on to your next class. So there were these
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peaks and valleys and that were really difficult.
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And in acting school, you are surrounded by people
7:51
who are incredibly talented and incredibly skilled
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at this art and this craft and desperately trying
8:01
to figure out who they are. And that is a curious
8:04
combination when you are constantly being asked
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to be someone else. It's a lot. It is a lot.
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So the anger and tears monologue question about
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that. So you had to be angry and cry on command
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with a monologue written by yourself. Was it
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an already established monologue from a play?
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An established monologue. that you chose an established
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monologue. And it wasn't both anger and tear.
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I mean, there, it was a called an anger and tears
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monologue, but some people leaned into the anger
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aspect. Other people leaned into the tears aspect
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of it. So what did you lean into? Oh, tears.
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And how was it? Was it successful? It was successful.
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I mean, I, I think over the years I have learned
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how to generate tears, which sounds kind of odd,
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but to manufacture them on some level. And so
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I think as a young beginning actor, that helped.
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I can tap into emotion pretty quickly and that
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was a skill. And you know, sometimes it doesn't
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come and we have to do a little manufacturing
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of emotion. or connection, or sometimes it doesn't
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happen in the same way every night. That's the
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beauty of live theater. Can I ask what the play
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was, what your character was, and maybe if it's
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not too personal, what you used to tap into the
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emotion of that moment? Sure. So the play that
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I chose a monologue from was called Bang Bang
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You're Dead. Oh my God. I played the lead in
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that show in high school. So, you know, you know
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what it's about. It's based on the very first
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high school mass shooting. Yeah. Which was, I
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mean, was Columbine arguably the one that was
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like the first big one or was it way before that?
10:10
This happened before Columbine. Gotcha. So. And
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the monologue, if I'm remembering correctly,
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was I kind of pieced it together from different
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shorter things, but just about the experience
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of being in a school shooting and seeing people
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you know dead on the floor and that whole experience.
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And for me... At that time in my life, I had
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gone through a series of death in my life. So
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tapping into that wasn't too foreign to me. I
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had just experienced the loss of grandparents,
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of a cousin, of a friend. And so I think that
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ability to kind of tap into that connection was
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very present and easy to access for me. And so
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I think that really helped in some ways, but
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witnessing other classmates go through their
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own journey of this monologue was really, really
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challenging. pretty traumatizing, kind of vicarious
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trauma, which is the trauma you experience when
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someone else experiences trauma and they tell
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you about it or they, you're witnessing it happen
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in some degree. And that's really, that's hard.
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And especially when no one is there to like walk
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you through it or talk about it or even name
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it. Yeah. And I'm wondering, I mean, automatically
11:56
I go to the professor and how they reacted to
12:00
that. Cause I don't know, I'll just give an example.
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When I was doing a Meisner exercise in my, in
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an acting class back in like my first sophomore
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semester at U arts, uh, which turned out to be
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my final semester there. Um, I, I don't, I, I
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don't know what, how, what to name that exercise,
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but have you done Meisner? Okay. So it's that
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exercise where you're just essentially like repeating
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Like two people are just kind of repeating what
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each other says, but like in that repetitious
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phrase, there's like these rollercoaster of emotions.
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Do you know what exercise I'm talking about?
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I know exactly what you're talking about. I don't
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know what it's called, but I think maybe it's
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just like repetition. Cause you're saying something,
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you're like making a statement that's essentially
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trying to elicit something out of someone else
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and they are staying fairly neutral and repeating
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it. But then you're kind of noting the response
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and reaction that this other person had, and
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then you have, and they kind of report the response
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or reaction that they are witnessing. It is a
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curious... Yes, I know what you're talking about.
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Yeah, yeah. The plates are spinning. The plates
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are spinning. The plates are spinning. Like,
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just take any phrase and you could go anywhere
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with it with the Miser exercise. So I had a breakdown
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that somehow related to an unfortunate period
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of time that I had with my brother when we were
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in our earlier childhood. And the exercise is
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over and, you know, there's that moment where
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me and the fellow actor are discussing the exercise
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and the teacher discusses their thoughts about
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it. And I just remember like breaking down in
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tears over the guilt of what was occurring with
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me and my brother at the time. And just that
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awkwardness of the teacher. I mean, I think he
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provided a little bit of sympathy, but just him
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while I was like soaked in tears, just being
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like, you could have done more. This is not quite
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where we were going with this exercise. It was,
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it was weird. Like, it just felt like, Oh, God,
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these emotions as I'm experiencing right now
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are being invalidated. So it was, I don't know.
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Completely. Yeah. Yeah. So it was quite a time.
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So you have the anger and tears monologue and
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you were able to access the emotion with that.
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The 30 page, did you say a 30 page monologue
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about yourself that you have to write literally?
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30 page autobiography. we had to write. Now,
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why did it have to be specifically 30 pages?
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Who knows? I have no idea why that was the thing,
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but we had to write and then turn it, turn in
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30 pages. And did you have to recite it or like?
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No, it was just like our life story that our
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professor then had to read. So you had to give
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like, I mean, at this point you were like, what,
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17, 18, 19? Yeah, 19. Okay. Okay. How did you
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fare with that? I mean, did it become difficult?
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Was it exciting? Did it bring up some stuff that
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you didn't want to think about? I mean, I think
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for me, it didn't feel like this really overwhelming
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assignment. I love talking about myself. I can
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talk about it myself for hours. Done cool things.
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I feel like I've got a lot of things to say.
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And so for me, it didn't feel like a big leap.
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to kind of write 30 pages about my life. Yeah,
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I'm only 19, but I started performing when I
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was three. So I have, I feel like I've lived,
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I'd lived a life up to that point and grew up
15:51
in a really kind of unique way and experience.
15:55
I grew up in Oregon. I had a 30 foot walking
15:58
labyrinth in my front yard. I went to a Waldorf
16:02
school. very unique compared to my friends in
16:08
college. It was something, you know, many of
16:12
them had never been west of the Mississippi River.
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And here I am from Oregon, the, you know, in
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Connecticut. I crossed the country to go to school.
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Many of them had not. And so that was just a
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very different experience. I came from a family
16:32
that valued a lot of privileged things like international
16:36
travel. We weren't like doing these huge big
16:41
trips, but we, you know, growing up in Oregon,
16:46
Canada and Mexico are not too far. And so I spent
16:50
a lot of time in those places, but that was a
16:55
different experience than many of my friends
16:57
had at that, at 18 and 19. So were you in Oregon?
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in the spring slash early summer of 2009, by
17:06
any chance. I was not. Damn it. Were you there?
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So my high school theater department, they funded
17:18
a trip to the Oregon Shakespeare Festival back
17:20
then. That's where I was. So I was I'm disappointed
17:24
because we could have crossed paths and not even
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know it. Exactly. No, I had I have been out of
17:30
Oregon since 1999. Wow. Uh, as an act, uh, you,
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you want to be called an actor or an actress?
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Actor is fine. Yeah. Okay. Actor. So thoughts.
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So first of all, have you ever been to the Oregon
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Shakespeare festival? I have many, many times.
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Okay. Want to get your thoughts about that? Um,
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I definitely did not appreciate it as much as
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I should have at the time, especially, you know,
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it costs money. You got to travel from Connecticut.
17:57
Right. It wasn't cheap. Um, Because I've just
18:00
never been like the biggest Shakespeare fan I
18:03
take the dumb guy approach which is just like
18:05
oh because the language is so heightened and
18:08
so Royally, I just don't connect with it. Even
18:12
though, you know, I had a fun time performing
18:16
one of the monologues from his plays. I forgot.
18:18
It's the All the Worlds of Stage monologue, the
18:21
Jacques Huys, which I was told it was a good
18:24
performance, but it, like, the way I performed
18:26
it was nothing like what the character was trying
18:30
to say with it. So that was something. But anyway,
18:33
yeah, I just never connected to Shakespeare on
18:35
that level, like my high school theater director
18:37
did. Therefore, I take from the festival experience
18:42
only the experience of just, you know, hanging
18:44
out with my theater classmates and then just
18:47
putting up with all the plays that we had to
18:49
see. A very wonderful production of Othello now
18:52
looking back included, which again, I didn't
18:54
appreciate at the time. So your thoughts on the
18:58
festival, what you experienced and what your
19:01
relationship with is with Shakespeare in general.
19:05
Well, if this gives you any information, I was
19:08
the only person in my eighth grade class to stay
19:12
awake for the entirety of Hamlet. So I take it
19:16
you are a Shakespeare fan. I love Shakespeare.
19:18
I do. I love that. I love that. What do you love
19:21
about it? I mean, I love the characters. The
19:32
villain is a villain. The hero is a hero. The
19:38
lovers are lovers. The fool is such a fool in
19:42
such a beautiful way. The mystical characters
19:46
get to live in that magic space. I mean, all
19:54
of the characters have so much... room for play.
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And I think that is something that I really connect
20:04
to and really love about Shakespeare. And it's
20:09
funny to hear you say the kind of the elevated
20:12
language, but so much of like all of the direction
20:17
he wrote in the dialogue, every stage direction
20:21
is like written into the dialogue. And I love
20:24
that. I love that all of the information you
20:27
need is right there. And some of it, yes, they're
20:31
using phrases and terms and words that we do
20:34
not use today, and yet so much of our language
20:37
comes from that time and those places that, you
20:43
know, if we knew more or studied it, we could
20:48
see those connections. But I don't know, I love
20:51
the nuance of the milkmaid character in Um, love's
20:59
labor's lost and just having, that was the character
21:02
that I got to play in college, Jaquanetta. And
21:06
she's just like such a, this simple tin yet has
21:11
so much to say about things. And, and so I, I
21:16
don't know, I really appreciate the, the nuances
21:19
of character and the straightforwardness and
21:23
the mystery of some and so. Those are my, those
21:28
are my pieces. I could see myself getting, I
21:30
could see myself getting into Hamlet only because
21:32
I've read that one of my favorite Disney movies
21:35
from my childhood, The Lion King, is basically
21:37
a version of Hamlet. Hamlet, yes, absolutely.
21:41
I love it. Yeah. Oh my God. So Love, Laborers,
21:46
Is Lost, is that what, and I probably miss -said
21:49
the name of that play. Is that your favorite
21:50
Shakespeare play? I don't know if it's my favorite
21:53
Shakespeare play. I am a sucker for Twelfth Night
21:57
and The Tempest and Midsummer Night's Dreams.
22:00
I love the comedies, the histories. They're okay.
22:03
Yeah. So you're saying like, when you say that
22:06
Shakespeare like incorporates the blocking into
22:08
the dialogue, like, all right, I'll give an example
22:10
of modern dialogue. Hey, my, my dignity is not
22:14
up for grabs. And I'm like wagging my finger.
22:17
So in the parentheses in the script, in a modern
22:19
script, it says I'm wagging my finger. And then
22:21
Shakespeare would be like, I'm wagging my finger
22:24
to you as I say my dignity is not up for grabs.
22:28
That's basically the difference. Yeah. It would
22:30
be like, I thrust my chin in your direction because
22:36
of XYZ, you know, XYZ. And so he's given the
22:40
actor that little tidbit of information. I love
22:45
that because I am someone who is very slow at
22:49
remembering, blocking. I recently performed in
22:53
a production for Vermont Stage in Burlington
22:56
here in Vermont. You're familiar with the Eugene
23:00
Ionesco absurdist play Rhinoceros? I am, yes.
23:03
Yeah. Yeah. So I was recently in that production.
23:06
And if you're familiar with it, you know that
23:07
there's a lot that goes into it. Half the battle
23:11
was just me remembering like all the fucking
23:14
blocking with, you know, the rhino choreography
23:16
that we had to do and whatnot. Cause it was inhabitants
23:19
in a small town gradually turning into rhinoceroses.
23:21
So not only are we dealing with this dense absurdist
23:24
language, but all of a sudden it's like, Oh,
23:26
you know, two step, three step, and then, you
23:29
know, cock your head and roll your shoulders
23:31
and nay. Like, it's just, I was internally thinking
23:37
like, I didn't go to rhino dance choreography
23:39
school. I don't know what I'm doing, you know,
23:42
so. But you did now. Now you've done it. I have
23:45
done it. I can write it in the history books.
23:48
But, um, yeah, no. So, you know, some dumb guy
23:50
like me, that's very slow on learning blocking.
23:52
I love that because when blocking is just like
23:56
stuck in parentheses at the end of a line, it's
23:59
easy for me to think of it as an afterthought.
24:01
I'll say my line, like, oh, the plates are spinning.
24:03
My cup is, oh, wait, and then I have to move
24:05
here. Well, I say the plates are spinning, but
24:07
if you say, you know, oh, let me move here while
24:10
the plates are spinning. It's like automatically
24:12
my brain goes, yeah, all right. So as, all right,
24:15
this is what I'm doing as I'm saying this line.
24:17
Like I get it quicker. Yeah. No, it's, he was,
24:20
he was smart or whoever wrote the plays was smart.
24:23
I was going to bring that up because I think
24:26
I was listening to a few episodes of the Stuff
24:29
You Should Know podcast. And I think one of their
24:31
latest episodes they had brought up the question
24:33
of like, did Shakespeare really write his plays?
24:37
Now, why is that something that's up for debate
24:39
when, you know, his credit has been to his plays
24:43
or his name has been attached to these plays
24:45
all these years? Like suddenly, where did this
24:48
conspiracy come from? That is a great question.
24:51
I don't actually know where the conspiracy or
24:54
the thought that he didn't write all of the plays
24:58
came from, but there were so many playwrights
25:03
in that time that were writing for so many patrons
25:07
that I think this idea that people were just
25:15
kind of contributing to so many things and writing
25:20
their own things and maybe it was produced and
25:23
maybe it wasn't and maybe you had a patron who
25:26
was paying you to write something and maybe you
25:28
didn't and people were using pseudonyms and all
25:33
these things were happening during that time
25:36
period. So I don't know like who the first person
25:39
was to be like Shakespeare didn't write that
25:41
play. Because there is it's a lot of amazing
25:46
iconic plays and I think what I'm getting from
25:49
what you're saying is like wow the likelihood
25:51
that all of this body of work belongs to this
25:54
one person and this one person only is Wow, that's
25:58
that's quite a quinky dink It could be possible
26:01
if you think of like the papers that Hamilton
26:05
wrote my god the man wrote a bajillion compared
26:09
to other people of that time. He was just a prolific
26:12
writer. So Shakespeare, I mean, it's very possible.
26:16
And there are so many other people writing prolifically
26:20
at the same time. So, and you know, there's thoughts
26:24
that his wife or sister, you know, there are
26:28
all these women who are also writers who couldn't,
26:30
who weren't recognized because of their gender.
26:34
as writers, and so. Yeah, didn't at the time,
26:38
like Shakespeare's plays were first put on in
26:40
the public, women were not allowed to be in the
26:45
show, so like all the men played the female characters,
26:48
right, at the time? That is correct. Yeah. Huh,
26:51
interesting. And this is probably something I
26:54
should search on my own, but I wonder, like,
26:56
what was, like, the earliest representation of,
26:59
like, an actual female... In a play? Yeah, that
27:03
I don't know. But that would be interesting to...
27:07
Google and find out. I'm gonna do the quickest...
27:11
Please spare me. Please be patient with me. The
27:15
first... Go ahead. I'm literally searching right
27:17
now. The first female to... perform in a stage
27:23
production. Yeah, let's see. The first known
27:26
woman to perform professionally on the English
27:28
stage was Margaret Hughes, who took on the role
27:31
of Desdemona and what do you know, Shakespeare's
27:34
Othello on December 8th. my mom's birthday, by
27:37
the way, December 8th, 1660. She was not born
27:40
in 1660 at the Veer Street, at the Veer Street
27:45
theater in London. This marked a historic shift
27:47
as for centuries, female roles had been played
27:49
by boys in disguise. So there you go. Othello
27:52
1660, Margaret Hughes, Desdemona. She broke ground
27:55
and became the first of many females to perform
27:57
on stage. Nice. I love the random fact discovery.
28:02
I am here to give it to you. I'm here to give
28:05
it to you. Um, Marie Riesberg. Marie Riesberg.
28:09
Marie Riesberg. You see, I told you, I will,
28:11
I'm going to have to repeat it. Marie rhymes
28:14
with Atari, Ferrari, Safari, Starry, sorry. Every
28:19
time I look at my Safari app, I'm going to think
28:21
of you. I'm going to think of you as one of my
28:23
recent podcast guests. I love that. So I'm fascinated
28:27
by how you became a certified creativity. an
28:31
innovation coach, and also tell me what that
28:34
is. Yeah, great. Yes. So after getting a degree
28:39
in acting, I lived in New York City for a moment,
28:42
sang with Irish band, was a nanny, worked in
28:45
restaurants, and then decided I want to do something
28:48
different. I discovered the creative arts therapies,
28:51
dance therapy, drama therapy, music therapy.
28:54
art, like fine art therapy, and went to get my
28:59
master's in somatic counseling psychology, dance
29:02
movement therapy. And while I was doing that,
29:05
I started combining these ideas of acting and
29:11
psychology together, which came to the fruition
29:16
of sustaining creativity. And so that is this
29:20
whole body of work that I have that I teach and
29:26
share with primarily acting and dance departments
29:29
at universities around the country. And from
29:32
there, I was introduced to a gentleman named
29:37
Michael Lee. He lives in South Africa and he
29:41
is a creativity coach and innovator and he put
29:46
together a training for creativity coaches. And
29:50
I took his training. It was like nine months.
29:54
of training and then client work and putting
29:59
it all together. And so it's this process, his
30:03
process of creativity kind of in a pyramid version
30:08
of from safety to vision and everything in between
30:13
in creativity. And so that was the training that
30:17
kind of formally labeled me as a creativity coach
30:22
and innovation coach. However, I have been using
30:26
creativity in my work and innovation in the work
30:30
that I do. Long before I took that formal training,
30:33
but I was very curious. I think that's part of
30:36
the creativity that just is innately in me. I'm
30:38
a curious human. I love knowing things. I love
30:41
learning things. And so that's what kind of drew
30:44
me into that world of creativity coaching. I
30:48
also am a licensed professional counselor in
30:51
Colorado, so I'm a therapist and work with people
30:56
in the performing arts and not in the performing
30:59
arts around life challenges and transitions.
31:03
But the creativity coaching, for me, the foundation
31:07
of it lives in a foundation of safety and trust
31:11
and that safety and trust that lives within us,
31:14
the relationship we call an intrapersonal relationship
31:18
with ourselves, the interpersonal relationship
31:20
we have with others, and then the relationship
31:22
we have with the environment we are in. So that
31:25
is the foundation of creativity coaching and
31:28
innovation coaching in my world and the sustaining
31:31
creativity work that I do. So that's kind of
31:35
where it sparked and bubbled up, and then it
31:39
just continues to grow and evolve. And it's now
31:43
becoming more in the kind of normal conversations
31:51
that people are having. Creativity is really
31:53
important to people. Not so much 10 years ago
31:56
when I was starting this. Really? I had to do
32:00
a little more convincing around. Why were we
32:04
not so enthusiastic about creativity 10 years
32:07
ago compared to now? Because I think the biggest
32:11
thing is it was hard to quantify or even qualify.
32:16
Like in 2017, Forbes Magazine came out and said,
32:20
creativity is the skill of the future. And that
32:22
was a little bit of a turning point. for people.
32:25
It's now being recognized in business. It's being
32:28
recognized in executive level. It's now a skill
32:33
that people are recognizing outside of performing
32:36
arts. Because creativity has always been kind
32:39
of lumped in with acting, dance, music, painting,
32:46
sculpture, all of those kind of fine arts pieces.
32:49
And now we're seeing it show up in business in
32:55
the world of accounting, in the world of entrepreneurs,
32:59
in the world of marketing, all of these other
33:02
places that if someone previously had said, oh,
33:06
you're so creative, the people in those business
33:08
roles probably wouldn't agree. They would say
33:11
like, no, I'm not really creative. I'm just doing
33:15
my job. But the tenets of creativity show up
33:19
each and every day in how we think, how we look
33:22
at something, how we get dressed in the morning,
33:25
how we drive to the office, how we communicate
33:29
with people in our life. So 10 years ago was
33:33
kind of the beginning of how people started to
33:35
shift, how they viewed creativity in kind of
33:42
a career. It wasn't just for performing arts
33:45
anymore. I want to see if I can give an example
33:48
so I can like better understand what you're saying.
33:50
So say somebody runs an Apple business and they
33:54
want to get into this creativity thing that you're
33:57
talking about instead of like selling apples
33:59
the usual way throughout the month of October,
34:03
shaping the apples like jack -o -lanterns, painting
34:06
them orange and putting all the decorations.
34:09
Is that, would that be an example of an Apple
34:13
entrepreneur taking advantage of creativity or
34:15
am I just going crazy? No, absolutely. That would
34:19
be it. But it could also be, I'm going to design
34:22
and I'm going to cross an apple with a pumpkin
34:25
and see if I can get an apple to grow that tastes
34:27
like a pumpkin. That's another version of creativity.
34:31
It's this version of, or I'm going to think of
34:35
the world's worst idea. and turn it into the
34:39
best idea. So the worst idea for an apple farmer
34:42
would be to cut down all their trees and, like,
34:48
not grow apples and do something else. And by
34:54
thinking that, the apple farmer might say, oh,
34:58
but if I cut down all the trees, that actually
35:01
gives me a foundation of for this other thing
35:05
that, or if I cut down every other tree that
35:09
allows something else to show up for me, or I'm
35:12
going to use this wood to create this other thing
35:15
that's going to generate an even bigger idea
35:19
for the apples. So it could be in how we think
35:23
of something, how we view something, it could
35:26
be how we act on it or engage with it. Maybe
35:30
it's like, you know what, I'm going to put on
35:32
yo -yo ma and wear the gauziest dress and dance
35:38
around the apple trees. That's my version of
35:42
relating to the environment of the apples. So
35:46
creativity can look many different ways. There
35:49
isn't one version of it. There isn't one way
35:52
to do it, but the difference between creativity
35:55
and innovation. Creativity is a process. Innovation
35:59
is action. When you had mentioned earlier about
36:02
all kinds of therapy, like fine arts therapy,
36:06
the therapy kind of associated with acting, that
36:08
acting psychology combination that you had mentioned.
36:11
I mean, I only know of the traditional kind of
36:15
therapy that I take on myself, where I literally
36:17
talk to a therapist about whatever's going on
36:19
in my life. So when you say things like fine
36:22
arts therapy, dance therapy, like what does that
36:26
mean? So speaking... as a dance movement therapist
36:31
are the connection between our body and our mind
36:35
is one that can be profound and oftentimes doesn't
36:41
exist. So the idea of dance movement therapy
36:46
is bridging the gap between the body and the
36:49
mind so we are paying attention to the information
36:54
our body is giving us so we can attend to anxiety
37:00
before it becomes panic, so we can attend to
37:03
depression before we struggle to get out of bed.
37:07
It's a way to start paying attention to the cues
37:10
and signals our physical body is providing us,
37:13
so we can attend to them in a way that helps
37:18
us navigate the world more effectively. It can
37:22
be done through many things. Movement, you know,
37:26
it's also being connected enough to your physical
37:30
body to notice an impulse, follow an impulse,
37:36
and then resolve an impulse. Follow it. So notice
37:39
it, follow it, resolve it. We often don't do
37:44
that in real life. And so this is about giving
37:50
more focus and attention to this connection between
37:54
our body and our mind because we are a full,
37:58
our body includes our head and our body, not
38:01
just this eight pound round -ish space above
38:07
our shoulders. So it's using our body as a tool
38:12
for change. Like using a painting as a tool for
38:19
change or using a drama therapy experience where
38:27
you're acting out characters in your life is
38:31
also a form of therapy. One of your specialties
38:34
being dance movement therapy. If I were someone
38:37
completely green into this and I'm coming in
38:40
to say a class that you're holding and I say
38:44
something as simple as, all right, like I have
38:46
this funky depression that I need to figure out
38:52
what to do with it. Is there like a specific
38:54
dance or movement exercise that I could use to
38:59
work through that? Like, what would you likely
39:03
say or what would you likely recommend specifically
39:06
to that person that says that? Yeah. So I think
39:09
if someone were to come in and be able to describe
39:12
all of that, I'd be like, great, we're starting
39:14
not at ground zero. Most of the time, that's
39:17
not what happens. So most of the time, we're
39:19
getting people who are coming in and saying,
39:23
like, I just feel bad, or I feel off, or something
39:29
doesn't feel quotes right. And so we're starting
39:33
at an even slower pace and level of, okay, well,
39:39
let's just... Take a breath. Let's just breathe
39:42
for a minute and just notice where the air is
39:46
entering and exiting your body. Is it entering
39:49
through your nose and exiting through your mouth?
39:51
Is it entering your mouth and exiting your mouth,
39:53
entering and exiting through your nose? And then
39:56
how deep is it? How shallow is it? We're just
39:59
going to start noticing some things. And when
40:02
we start to notice the present moment, things
40:07
start to change. things start to shift. We become
40:11
aware of, oh, actually my left shoulder, man,
40:17
I didn't realize that that feels terrible. Okay.
40:22
So if we put our attention and focus in your
40:25
left shoulder, how does your left shoulder want
40:27
to move? What does it have to share with you?
40:32
If it feels awful, what is that movement or posture
40:38
that represents that. And as I'm doing this for
40:41
people who aren't watching the live stream or
40:44
the video, my left shoulder is curving in towards
40:49
the center of my body. And so we might exaggerate
40:54
that, really move that left shoulder into the
40:58
center and notice, okay, what does that feel
41:00
like? Or we might do the opposite, really pull
41:03
that shoulder back. Notice what that is like.
41:06
Or if we don't want to, it feels too intense
41:09
in that shoulder space, we might say, okay, we're
41:12
going to take that feeling or that energy and
41:14
we're going to put it into another body part,
41:16
like your hand. So how can your hand become a
41:20
representative of this shoulder space? And can
41:24
your hand show me what your shoulder feels? Oh,
41:27
it feels like clenching my fist or one finger
41:31
is sticking up and it's moving up and down. And
41:34
so we might just follow that. Okay. Most finger.
41:39
And then maybe it slows down or maybe it changes.
41:43
And then maybe the whole movement changes. And
41:46
then we might notice, oh, now my shoulder wants
41:50
to move in a different way or different space.
41:56
And so we're, we're being present. We're trusting
41:59
that there's wisdom in this. And then. At some
42:04
point, someone who has a hard time trusting their
42:08
body might say, okay, that's it, I'm done. And
42:11
you can say, as a therapist, we get to be present
42:15
with that as well and say, okay, yeah. There
42:19
are limits to what we can tolerate, whether it's
42:22
pain, sadness, joy. We all have limits to our
42:27
capacity. We call it our window of tolerance.
42:30
And that's where we start building resilience
42:33
and growth and change comes from that. But we
42:36
have to find what those edges are so we can explore
42:40
them in deeper and more nuanced fashions. Wow,
42:45
that's very interesting. I love that. You have
42:48
a master's in somatic counseling. Again, what?
42:53
What is that, please? That sounds fascinating.
42:56
Well, somatic psychology, soma, is body. So it's
42:59
body -based psychology. And then there's two
43:03
kind of offshoots of that. There's dance movement
43:05
therapy and body psychotherapy. And they each
43:07
come from different kind of psychology schools.
43:10
There's some of the younger in the world of psychology,
43:14
we might think of them as younger kind of coming,
43:17
at least dance movement therapy coming. really
43:20
into aliveness, early 1900s. And body psychotherapy,
43:27
I don't know as much about, but I know has a
43:29
deeper and more history lineage than dance movement
43:34
therapy does. But people have been dancing for
43:36
centuries and feeling... changed from it, from
43:42
moving their body. There are many cultures who
43:46
incorporate some version of movement in ceremony,
43:50
ritual, processing, something, thresholds, transitions.
43:55
We mark things with movement often. And so there
44:00
is a deep, a deep, rich... history of using movement
44:08
as a tool for therapeutic support, therapeutic
44:15
growth and therapeutic change, whether we were
44:18
calling it therapy in air quotes or not. It's
44:24
something that people have for centuries been
44:26
using to support themselves through hardship
44:31
or joy or pain. suffering, all of that. Yeah.
44:38
Does moving make you hungry? Does moving make
44:41
me hungry? Sometimes, I think more it like gives
44:44
me a lot of energy. And it makes me like, feel
44:49
so alive, like even just that stuff that I was
44:52
kind of walking you through. Now I'm like, Oh,
44:55
what's happening in my arm and my shoulder. And
44:56
now I'm going to play and explore that. All of
45:01
that. But yeah, it is. It's Building a relationship
45:06
with our bodies is, I think, one of the most
45:09
important things we can do. What's a delicious
45:13
meal that you've had lately? Ooh, a delicious
45:16
meal. Oh my gosh. I made egg drop soup the other
45:20
night and it was so incredible. Chef's kiss.
45:25
I love that I have all the ingredients in my
45:29
kitchen to whip it up. It's so easy and it's
45:35
so delicious. What is it? Like, tell me what
45:38
it consists of. It consists of a stock, like
45:43
it could be vegetable stock, chicken stock, and
45:45
then it includes ginger, some aromatics, could
45:48
be ginger and garlic. a little onion, it has
45:53
green onion, and then it has some thickening
45:57
agent, which could be a cornstarch or an arrowroot
46:00
powder, depending on what you like to use, salt,
46:04
white pepper, and then I like to put corn in,
46:09
and then you whisk eggs and stir the soup and
46:14
drizzle the egg, so you get these egg ribbons
46:17
in the soup, and then it takes about 20 minutes,
46:21
15, 20 minutes to make. And it's so good. Spell
46:26
that for me. Egg drop soup? Egg drop soup. Oh,
46:30
okay. The Chinese chicken soup that the internet
46:32
tells me it is. It's like Chinese chicken soup?
46:34
Is that right? Some people add chicken to it.
46:37
Some people don't. Some people put rice in it.
46:39
Some people, you can doctor it and add whatever
46:43
extra things you want, but it is a, it is a beautiful
46:47
light meal. or beginning to a larger meal. This
46:53
looks like something I would find very comforting
46:53
in the fall and winter. Is this compatible as
46:57
a summer dish as well? Absolutely. I literally
47:00
had it the other night and we're here. But yeah,
47:05
I love the simple, simple meals that don't take
47:08
too long to make. And yeah, tonight I'm making
47:11
shrimp tacos. So that's another favorite. Oh,
47:15
yeah. I need to dive more into the shrimp tacos
47:19
and less into like the boring chicken beef tacos
47:22
and steak tacos. Like, because I like shrimp.
47:25
I've, I've, I've eaten shrimp and I'm like, wow,
47:30
this might taste good in taco form if I would
47:32
just give it a chance. Well, the next time you
47:36
have shrimp, shrimp tacos. I'm coming over. I'm
47:39
coming over to wherever you are in Denver. And
47:42
I don't know if the dry climate, because it's
47:45
a dry climate, right? It is. Very. I don't know
47:48
if that like affects the shrimp tacos positively,
47:50
but you got to tell me, what are you putting
47:53
in your shrimp tacos that's making it special?
47:54
Because I know you got a unique one. I do. Well,
47:58
I make a homemade taco seasoning blend. And then
48:02
I love a cabbage on instead of lettuce. So it's
48:08
like shrimp with seasoning and then cabbage.
48:13
And then I love an avocado as well. So I'm avocado
48:17
and then a hot sauce. And it's right now, it's
48:22
a local honey habanero hot sauce that makes all
48:26
the difference. And a corn tortilla that is flame,
48:33
flame heated. I stick it on my gas stove and
48:36
eat it on the flame. Now, what I found with avocado
48:39
is that I could like at best tolerate it as a
48:43
part of something as opposed to like on its own.
48:46
Like on its own, it's like, on its own, it's
48:48
like this weird tasteless green mush thing. But
48:51
when you put it in a taco or I don't know, you
48:54
put it in a nacho grande, I'm like, all right,
48:56
that's fine enough. I could do that. I love it.
49:00
Well, I love avocado. My partner is deathly allergic
49:04
to it. Wow. So if you get into a fight with your
49:10
partner, you pull out the avocado and that's
49:12
their kryptonite. That is. I would never use
49:15
that. I would never subject them to the horrible
49:19
experience of their reaction to avocado. Probably
49:22
not, because I think they might die if they sniff
49:26
it long enough. And how did the egg drop soup
49:31
come its way into your life? Like, did you just
49:33
like randomly seek out a recipe or did a friend
49:35
recommend it to you? I mean, I've been eating
49:37
egg drop soup at Chinese restaurants for the
49:41
majority of my life. And I finally decided I
49:45
just need to learn how to make this. It can't
49:46
be that hard. And so that's what I did. I looked
49:49
up recipes and then kind of combined several
49:53
and made it my own. And that's, that's how it
49:56
became in came into rotation in dinners in my,
50:00
in my life. I really have to expand my Chinese
50:02
restaurant palette because literally, uh, I'm
50:04
ordering something out of Chinese restaurant
50:06
and it's either chicken lo mein or general South's
50:09
chicken. Just, just chicken, chicken, chicken,
50:10
just basic chicken. Well, the next time you go,
50:15
get a little cup of egg drop soup and try it.
50:19
Fine. Here's the thing, this is where creativity
50:24
gets to come in. Creativity is about trying new
50:27
things. Try it with food. Try just one little
50:31
bite. We're not about like blowing out your palate.
50:35
It's just trying one thing that's a little bit
50:39
new. You eat soup, but this is like a different
50:42
type of soup, but it's still a soup. So we've
50:45
got the comfort of knowing it's soup and the
50:47
newness of something we've never tried before.
50:49
There you go. There you go. I, you know, cause
50:52
when I, when I think soup, I always have that
50:55
association of like the canned chicken soup that
50:57
I would eat if I'm like feeling sick. And I gotta
51:00
get, I gotta get out of that pattern and, and
51:03
think of soup as like, oh no, this could be like
51:05
a restaurant delicacy. This could be a takeout
51:07
delicacy. Um, that's, that's my problem. Soup
51:11
is not only for the sick. This is true. It is
51:15
not. It is for all the time. And even in the
51:17
summer. I think summer soup is equally valuable.
51:21
Now, say it's like 100 degrees in Denver and
51:24
you're eating soup. Could that make you cool?
51:26
Because I've heard, I used to have a friend that
51:29
was like, oh my God, I drink hot coffee during
51:31
a heat wave and it's so soothing. And I do not
51:33
get that because I think, oh, if I drink something
51:36
hot or eat something hot like soup, I'm going
51:38
to be more hot. Right. But I believe it has something
51:41
to do with the, like, it makes you sweat, which
51:46
cools you down. Yeah, that's the ironic part
51:48
that I heard about that on a podcast is that
51:50
when you sweat, that's actually like your cooling
51:54
mechanism kicking in. Yeah. Huh? Yeah. So I wonder
51:57
what happens if you don't sweat? That I don't
52:02
know you're gonna have to get some medical doctor
52:04
on here next time you give you all the ins and
52:08
outs of what happens if you don't sweat. I think
52:11
I'm going to do my third or fourth search on
52:14
the internet. What happens if you don't sweat?
52:20
Let's see. If you can't sweat normally, your
52:23
body loses its primary way of cooling down, which
52:25
can lead to dangerous overheating and serious
52:29
health risks. Oh, well, there you go. So we sweating
52:34
is good. Sweating is important. Sweating is essential
52:38
to our daily way of life. I want to know, what's
52:43
a delicious piece of pop culture you've consumed
52:45
lately? Mari? Yes. Yeah, Mari. A delicious piece
52:50
of pop culture. TV show, movie, book, podcast,
52:53
play. What are you tuning into that you want
52:55
to share about? I have been loving Rooster, the
53:01
new Steve Carell show. Yes, I've been meaning
53:04
to watch that. Please tell me about it. Oh my
53:06
gosh, it is fantastic. I love Steve Carell and
53:13
the characters takes place at a university, a
53:17
small what feels like a seemingly New England
53:20
town, and I think it is. Steve Carell's daughter
53:25
is a professor there. Her husband is also a professor.
53:30
There's breakups that happen for infidelity reasons.
53:34
Steve Carell's ex -wife shows up. He writes kind
53:39
of crime novels and ends up teaching a class
53:43
on writing there and gets to know the students.
53:47
It's kind of just like real -ish exaggerated
53:52
real life stuff that happens, but all the actors
53:57
are stellar and it touches on some interesting
54:04
pieces of society and the nuances of relationships
54:10
and how we can... Like learn from each other
54:17
and not judge people by the cover of their book,
54:23
so to speak. Okay. I know that me and my wife,
54:27
we saw a professor infidelity kind of show on
54:29
Netflix, like not too long ago. I forgot what
54:32
it was, but it was like a mini series. What is
54:34
it about professors and infidelities that go
54:37
together like peanut butter and jelly? Your thoughts.
54:41
I hate to say it, but because it happens all
54:45
the time. There must be some kind of stress and
54:49
tension with the work that just makes them do
54:51
stupid shit like that. I think the same could
54:57
be said for performers. You're around this certain
55:00
collection of people. all the time for so many
55:04
reasons. And the other people in your life, whether
55:08
it's a spouse or partner in some capacity, that
55:13
isn't the primary focus of what you're doing
55:18
most of the time. Or if you're researching something
55:22
or, excuse me, I don't know, in a show, in something,
55:26
you're spending a lot of extra time, long hours.
55:30
stuff with other people in intimate settings
55:34
where you get to know people and stuff happens.
55:38
Stuff happens, yes. I definitely can relate that
55:43
with fellow actors, I mean, way in my past before
55:47
I was married. Yeah, I mean, you're going through...
55:51
You say you're doing a theater production with
55:53
these people. It could be two, three months you're
55:55
rehearsing with them or just three very intense
55:57
weeks like I did recently with Rhinoceros. And
56:00
you are essentially like forming this close bond.
56:05
You're going through the highs of like, wow,
56:07
we're, you know, we got our adrenaline pumping
56:09
with this performance, with this choreography,
56:11
with all this funny dialogue. We're going through
56:14
the lows of the director being frustrated at
56:17
us by not getting it. And we're trying to get
56:19
it. We're trying, we're even meeting. in rehearsal
56:21
privately to figure it out in addition to the
56:24
public rehearsals with the director and then
56:25
you do it in front of an audience and it's like
56:27
oh my god like this thing that we thought was
56:29
gonna crumble feels good let's go out for a drink
56:31
afterwards I mean there's all these sources of
56:34
just extreme bonding that you do over a short
56:37
period of time that um Yeah, of course. I mean,
56:41
for those who have partners and they're not involved
56:44
in that process. Yeah. I mean, the actors are
56:48
probably going to likely cohabitate with each
56:51
other if the chemistry and the romantic and sexual
56:54
attraction, if you will, is there. And to professors,
56:58
you can extend that. You know, it could be fellow
57:01
professors. It could be inappropriately their
57:04
students. I mean, like, yeah, there's... All
57:06
of the above. All of the above. Yeah, when you
57:09
have a regular high functioning adrenaline, like
57:14
high pressure sort of working relationship with
57:16
others, then yes, that that that kind of Oh,
57:21
God, that kind of blossoming cherry ice cream
57:25
of infidelity can just pop out out of the bushes.
57:29
Yeah, absolutely. I'm talking nonsense. Thank
57:34
you for tolerating me, Mari. Of course, of course.
57:38
So yeah, Steve Carell. I mean, obviously I love
57:40
him, you know, from The Daily Show to The Office
57:43
to, I think most recently I saw him on The Morning
57:46
Show with Jen Aniston and Reese Witherspoon.
57:48
Steve Carell, not only is he just a very kind,
57:52
wonderful man in real life, but also as an actor,
57:54
he's just very appealing to see. So, I will be
57:58
watching partially for Steve. I think the comedian
58:00
Robbie Hoffman is in Rooster, isn't she? They
58:03
are, yeah. They are, they are. I'm sorry. Yeah,
58:06
yeah. I saw them in Hacks, which recently ended
58:10
on HBO. Have you seen Hacks? I have watched the
58:13
first three seasons and I haven't watched more.
58:16
It's... It's on the list. I gotta have rotations.
58:20
Did he jump the shark or he just fell out of
58:22
touch with it? No, I just stopped watching because
58:25
other things grabbed my attention and so it'll
58:28
circle back around. Gotcha, gotcha. I would say...
58:32
If you're looking for some pizzazz in the series
58:35
finale, you may find it and then you may not
58:40
find it towards the end. I'm curious to see what
58:42
your thoughts are. If you end up watching it,
58:44
we'll have to reconvene on the podcast and do
58:47
a sort of hacks finale recap. But yeah, I'm not
58:54
as crazy as most people are in a positive way
58:56
about how the show ended. A lot of people seem
58:59
to be touched by it. And I'm just like, meh,
59:02
kind of a cop out. OK. All right. Well, now I'm
59:05
so curious. Maybe I'll watch it later tonight.
59:07
Please do. Just watch the entire rest of the
59:09
series later tonight. Don't get any sleep. Don't
59:11
worry about what you have to do tomorrow. That's
59:13
your assignment. That's my assignment. Love it.
59:16
If only. What is a delicious thing that's happened
59:21
in your life lately? Oh, a delicious thing happening
59:24
in my life. I just got back from the Redwood
59:29
Forest in Northern California, and that... What's
59:33
that? Is that where... The Redwood National Forest
59:37
is... Sorry, I was gonna say something stupid.
59:41
No, no, I was going to say like, oh, is that
59:43
where Little Red Riding Hood lives? That just
59:45
sounds like a very Little Red Riding Hood kind
59:46
of town. But anyway, go ahead. Tell me more.
59:50
It's the world's tallest trees. And most of the
59:56
trees are over 300 feet tall. And most of them
59:59
have a diameter of over 70 feet in diameter.
1:00:04
And they're like 1 ,500 plus years old. bonkers
1:00:09
to stand in front of them. I spent so many moments
1:00:13
just standing and looking up with my mouth open,
1:00:16
just saying, this is amazing over and over and
1:00:20
over. It was an incredible, incredible experience.
1:00:25
Pictures cannot do it justice. If you ever have
1:00:28
the opportunity to go to Northern California
1:00:31
and experience the Redwood National Forest, highly
1:00:35
recommend it. is incredible. There's a place
1:00:38
called Fern Canyon. You have to make a reservation,
1:00:41
but it's where they filmed part of Jurassic Park.
1:00:44
There is a tree grove of these tall redwoods,
1:00:48
which is where they filmed part of Return to
1:00:50
the Jedi. It's a stunning otherworldly experience.
1:00:56
It has its own ecosystem and like in the canopy
1:01:01
of the trees, they have soil and moisture where
1:01:07
other plants and animals live. It blows my mind.
1:01:11
Even, it was just such an amazing experience.
1:01:14
I think everyone deserves to see these in real
1:01:17
life. There's a lot of forest bathing. I don't
1:01:20
know if you've ever heard of that. Just like
1:01:21
walking in the forest. And taking a bath? I mean...
1:01:28
The idea of forest bathing is just like being
1:01:32
bathed by the energy of trees. Oh It's metaphorical.
1:01:36
Okay, that's what it is. It's a metaphorical
1:01:38
bath I was like, oh wait people just like get
1:01:42
naked and just take a bath in the forest. All
1:01:44
right I'm sure I'm sure that would be equally
1:01:47
as delightful being in nature and these Enormous
1:01:54
trees it was it's it will impact me for the rest
1:01:59
of my life to be able to have experienced that.
1:02:02
Yeah, I was going to ask how you knew about it,
1:02:04
but it sounds like it's been a tourist attraction
1:02:06
that's been around, seen in the movies for quite
1:02:09
some time, and that's what made you curious about
1:02:11
seeing it. It became a national park and national
1:02:15
forest in the 60s. So that was kind of the beginning
1:02:19
of it. I wonder if at first sight... these tall
1:02:23
trees if I would be like intimidated by like
1:02:27
how big they are and how they could just like
1:02:29
crush me if they wanted to. And also I'm wondering
1:02:31
if I could touch the trees. Can you touch them?
1:02:34
Because you tell me that a tree is like 15 ,000
1:02:37
years old. All I want to do is just touch the
1:02:40
age, you know? Yes, you can touch them. You can
1:02:43
hug them. There were many moments of hiking where
1:02:46
I was hiking in front of my partner and I would
1:02:48
turn around to him just hugging a tree. Which
1:02:51
was amazing. Hey, you know what that makes you
1:02:54
Mari. You know that makes you what does that
1:02:56
make me a tree hugger tree hugger I was born.
1:03:02
Yes. I love to hug a tree. It's the best I forgot
1:03:05
what that phrase meant. Is that just mean like
1:03:07
someone who's like really conscious about the
1:03:08
environment? Yes. Okay. All right Northern California,
1:03:13
where are we at in Sacramento? North of Sacramento,
1:03:17
we were in Klamath, California and Crescent City,
1:03:22
California, which is right on the coast. So there's
1:03:25
a lot of Pacific Ocean experiences and forest
1:03:30
experiences, which is such a cool combo. Are
1:03:34
you a fan of the Netflix series Virgin River
1:03:36
by any chance? I have, uh, let's see, I watched
1:03:39
the first season or maybe I watched the first
1:03:41
two seasons. So yes. And then, and then dropped
1:03:44
off like you did with the hacks. Yeah. But you're
1:03:49
not completing shows. Oof. That is a great question.
1:03:53
I may have to take that one to therapy. Anyway,
1:03:56
uh, from what you remember of the first two seasons
1:03:59
of Virgin River, and yes, I'll be your therapist.
1:04:01
We'll have to get down to why you don't complete
1:04:02
shows. Um. Is it giving Virgin River vibes? Because
1:04:06
Virgin River is set in Northern California and
1:04:09
it has a, I mean, probably the beautiful scenery
1:04:12
is 90 % of what attracts me about the show. Yes.
1:04:15
I would say it does, but even more. Like, the
1:04:19
trees are even bigger and even more impressive
1:04:23
than the scenery on that show. All right. All
1:04:27
right. I will go there when my wife and I can
1:04:33
afford a flight to go there. Do you get charged
1:04:37
to go in or is it completely free? I think some
1:04:42
places are $12 to go in, but if you have a national
1:04:45
park pass, which is $80 for the year, you can
1:04:48
go to any national park in the United States.
1:04:52
As many times as you want. Correct. In that year
1:04:55
that you have the pass. That is a good deal.
1:04:58
That is a good deal. All right. The Redwood Forest.
1:05:02
Redwood National Forest. Yep. All right. And
1:05:05
Northern California. Add it to your bucket list.
1:05:07
Please. I need to do that because I only have
1:05:12
five years left. What? I'm just changing the
1:05:18
whole tune of this podcast. Look, it's been a
1:05:22
long day. I'm just saying crazy stuff just to
1:05:24
say crazy stuff. This is my way of keeping awake.
1:05:27
But actually, no, this was a great conversation.
1:05:28
My energy has been like re -energized, if that
1:05:31
makes any sense. This was a great conversation
1:05:34
and I hope we could do this again. Let us know
1:05:38
how we can follow you for people that are like,
1:05:41
oh my God, Mari Riesberg. Like, let me see how
1:05:44
I can get in contact about her services. Give
1:05:46
us the website, the socials, all that stuff.
1:05:49
Yeah. So I am at Sustaining Creativity on all
1:05:53
social media platforms. And you can find my podcast,
1:05:56
Sustaining Creativity podcast, wherever you listen
1:05:58
to podcasts. And if you live in Colorado and
1:06:02
are interested in a therapist, you can find me
1:06:04
on Psychology Today. You search my name, Mari
1:06:07
Reisberg, M -A -R -I, last name R -E -I -S -B
1:06:12
-E -R -G. And yeah. Find me, shoot me a message,
1:06:17
Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn. That's
1:06:21
where you can find me. And therapy as it relates
1:06:24
to the arts or just like all encompassing? All
1:06:29
therapies. All therapies. Yeah. But you have
1:06:34
to live in Colorado. Oh, yeah, I know I know
1:06:37
Yeah, no, I remember um, yeah a brief time I
1:06:40
lived in upstate New York the Vermont therapist
1:06:42
that I've had for like six years was just like,
1:06:45
okay Well, you have like 30 days and then I gotta
1:06:48
let you go and then yeah when I when I moved
1:06:50
back to Vermont We were able to reunite. So yeah
1:06:53
Yeah Darn it. I wish I could get like a fake
1:06:57
Colorado driver's license. You seem like you
1:06:59
would be a great therapist for me, Amari. Thank
1:07:02
you. I love what I do. So it's a lot of fun.
1:07:05
That's awesome. That's awesome. All right. Listen
1:07:08
to The Delicious Culture wherever you get your
1:07:10
podcasts. Everybody listening and watching Apple,
1:07:12
Spotify, SiriusXM, iHeart, Amazon, you know where
1:07:16
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1:07:18
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1:07:23
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1:07:26
and follow us on Instagram and TikTok at The
1:07:29
Delicious Culture. That's at The Delicious Culture.
1:07:33
Mari, thank you so much. I mean, I... Maybe we
1:07:37
can reconnect on your podcast, my podcast, whatever
1:07:40
you want to do. But some, some, we have to reconnect
1:07:42
on a podcast again soon. I agree. Thank you so
1:07:46
much for having me. This has been such a fantastic
1:07:49
time. I am super energized as well. Yes. And
1:07:54
the conflict that I have, I have like a few more
1:07:56
things to do, but like to have to go to bed after
1:07:59
that, it's like, oh, then the, then the adrenaline
1:08:02
has to come down and I got to wake up for work
1:08:04
the next morning. Oh, it's a whole thing. It's
1:08:07
a whole thing. All right. For those listening
1:08:08
and watching, let deliciousness bring.