Latest / That Car Show / Ryan Sabga Talks Ferrari

Transcript

Ryan Sabga Talks Ferrari · That Car Show

0:01
Hey, it's Ryan from that car show and it's going to be a
0:04
different kind of show today. Last night Dan Lindsay and I sat
0:08
down recorded a great crew show. We found out later we had some
0:11
issues with audio and just didn't feel right posting the
0:15
show as is. So this morning I sat down with
0:17
a friend of the show, Ryan Sapka.
0:20
Ryan is an internationally regarded Ferrari expert.
0:23
People with money come to him and he helps them find the right
0:26
car. He's also got a great collection
0:28
of his own. So we set out in this garage as
0:30
the snow fell here in Denver, and it just shot the ship for an
0:35
hour. And I think we got a really good
0:36
episode. So this one's audio only.
0:38
We'll be back next week with a regular video show, the three of
0:42
us. But in the meantime, please
0:43
enjoy this conversation with Ferrari whisperer Ryan Sabka.
0:50
Hey, it's Ryan here from that car show.
0:52
And I was going to meet my buddy Ryan Sabka for coffee this
0:56
morning, as we do most Fridays, and it's kind of a weird wintry
1:00
day here. So we figured, let's have a
1:02
little fireside chat in his garage.
1:05
So I've got a couple to go coffees.
1:07
We're huddled around a, this isn't quite a campfire, but it's
1:10
a, it's a heater. It's a space heater.
1:12
Space heater, you know, I just pretend it's open flame and
1:15
we're in his beautiful garage. I'm looking around a couple
1:18
beautiful Ducatis. I don't know the first thing
1:19
about bikes, but they're beautiful.
1:21
And at least 4 Ferraris. So what are we looking at?
1:24
Ryan? Welcome by the way.
1:25
Yes, thanks. It's good to be here.
1:28
The four Ferraris that are here with us today because a couple
1:30
of are out for service. The four that are here are you
1:33
have one of the three O 8 GTB Group 4 cars they made for
1:37
tarmac rallies in the late 70s and early 80s.
1:40
This one of the 1981, one of the 19 with full FIAHTP paperwork
1:47
eligible for all the world's great events.
1:50
You've got my manual Ferrari 360 that I converted to a Challenge
1:55
Stradale years ago when you can still buy all the Challenge
1:58
Stradale parts and and retrofit them to a 360.
2:03
You have my very, very late 575 Marinello, which is specked in
2:11
my mind to perfection, including the the ever famous Fiorano
2:18
handling package and the carbon package and and my favorite
2:21
colors, Nero Daytona, which is a metallic black over Kuyo, which
2:26
is like a a darker tan, a baseball glove.
2:28
And then and then last car here next to you is my also very,
2:34
very late 1999 end of the run 355 Berlinetta Emanuel black on
2:40
black, fitted with some choice challenge parts, including
2:45
challenge wheels, but very much a streetcar.
2:48
Yeah, and a couple cars that aren't here.
2:50
Can I mention those? Yeah, the cars that are not
2:51
here, I have a 512 BBI that is out for mechanical
2:57
refurbishment. It is, it is that time in that
2:59
car's life. It's in Canada with the famous
3:01
Paul Newman, not the actor, but the famous boxer restoration
3:05
specialist. That should be back in a couple
3:07
weeks. And then I have a Ferrari F-40
3:10
that is up at Marinella Motor Works completing a a restoration
3:14
that should be back here relatively soon too.
3:16
And that completes my 6th. Ferrari garage, Yeah, just a
3:20
casual little collection. And yeah, you know, it's just
3:22
you never know it walking by, you know?
3:24
How it's supposed to be? Yes, exactly.
3:26
And there's this amazing collection here and what are the
3:29
bikes? Because I don't know much about
3:30
bikes, but I. So I only have a couple bikes
3:32
here, but I have I have a lot of bikes.
3:35
I have mostly ex Ducati factory race bikes, mostly 916 era
3:40
bikes, but I have some some fairly famous bikes including
3:47
Alexand Alessandro Gramini's 1996 race winning pass by
3:53
Farachi 916 Corsa. I have Scott Russell's very
3:58
famous 2002 HMC Ducati 9M6 Rs from Daytona 200 that obviously
4:05
had a had a mishap on the restart.
4:07
Well, I got that bike and restored it and I run that at
4:09
the track. I have three of the 2002 seven
4:14
48 RSS. There's twelve of those.
4:16
I have 3, so 1/4 of them. That's one of them right here.
4:19
And this was a backup? This was a backup bike for the
4:25
Ducati race team, Yeah. You can take this out for
4:27
coffee, like, yeah, I mean. It's just you know, no like
4:30
signals, no any of that stuff, but boy, it's really cool on the
4:34
track Yep, and then that is a that's a fully restored 900
4:38
super sport next to you that is has a bunch of extras on it, but
4:44
that is my bike primarily for touring.
4:48
Which is also beautiful and bikes you're a you're a former
4:51
professional bicycle racer. Cyclist, yes, that's the word.
4:55
Yes, yes, not not motorcycles, but you know, there's a lot of a
4:59
lot of ex pro cyclists when they retire, like, I mean, really
5:03
love motorcycles and cars. And when you retire, you have
5:06
time and hopefully if you play your cards like a little bit of
5:09
money to pursue some of that stuff.
5:10
And so like I'm living out some of that.
5:12
I mean, I try to the nice thing about about motorbikes,
5:16
especially at the track, if you do a lot of track stuff, you
5:19
have to stay pretty fit. And so it's, it's a good
5:23
motivator to me to keep going to the gym, yeah, and keep my
5:25
weight in a reasonable place and the whole.
5:27
That looks good for you than a fat man on a sport bike, right?
5:30
So, yeah, well. Sport bikes don't like it either
5:33
and it's it's A2 Edge St. Well, and we met, of course, on
5:37
the Colorado Grand, which is near and dear to both our
5:39
hearts. And you know, it's it's probably
5:43
3 or 4 years ago when we met. We've gotten to be buds and and
5:47
you have been a part of the grand, both as a participant but
5:50
also as an advisor to people. Yeah, with these amazing cars.
5:56
Yeah, well, the Grand is, as you said, near and dear to my heart
5:58
as it is to yours. I think being a Colorado person,
6:02
the Colorado Grand is not only, I think, the premier vintage car
6:06
rally in the in the United States and, and arguably in the
6:10
world, but it really showcases all the highlights of our great
6:14
state. I mean, it's at a great time of
6:16
year. We go to amazing places.
6:17
Tom and his whole staff really do an amazing job of, of, of
6:23
putting on a world class event. I'm very fortunate to do it
6:26
several times. I did it in Carrera RSA few
6:30
years ago and that was the special car for the command.
6:34
And then last year I got to do it with a friend and a Ferrari
6:39
250 short wheelbase comp car, a car that got 7th overall Lamont
6:43
1960. That was that was an amazing,
6:45
very fortunate. And yes, as you mentioned, yes,
6:48
I help some people, some of them grand participants build their
6:54
vintage car collection. You know, I, I worked very hard
6:58
in my working life to acquire the cars that I have.
7:02
I have my dream cars, which are the cars that that really matter
7:05
to me. And you know, for lack of a
7:09
better word, I'm sort of like tapped out on, on space and
7:12
bandwidth to keep to keep buying more.
7:16
I don't have any desire to really add.
7:18
I have everything I've always wanted.
7:20
But you learn so many things along the way.
7:22
And the exposure to different people, different things is a, a
7:27
great part of the journey. And I have a lot of people who
7:29
are like, Hey, you've learned so much, you're not buying for you
7:32
anymore. Will you help me get stuff?
7:35
And it's funny because sometimes people think about it as I would
7:40
like you to, to help me get the best of the best in this
7:44
incredible collection. And that is a good way to look
7:47
at it. But I think the more important
7:50
way that people don't look at it is, and this is where I think
7:53
I'm probably really good is I keep them out of harm's way,
7:56
keep them from buying things that you think you're buying X,
8:00
but this is really Y and, and, and it would be a mistake to
8:05
purchase it. And, you know, I obviously walk
8:07
them through and show them the things that I'm seeing.
8:10
And I know that for the few people that I've I've chosen to
8:16
help, I have made a tremendous impact on their financial
8:21
well-being by keeping them out of harm's way because I've I've
8:24
helped them avoid some serious mistakes.
8:26
And you've got an interesting background in in is is the word
8:29
verification or? Yeah, authentication.
8:32
Authentication. Yeah, yes.
8:34
Well, yes, I built, I built several companies that
8:36
specialize in authentication, including for some very famous
8:42
that shall not be named realms of Motorsports.
8:45
Let's say the highest realm of motorsport uses authentication
8:49
features that I invented and developed and produce for them
8:53
in order to keep teams and competitors from cheating.
8:57
And but it's also extended into collectibles.
9:00
And so, yes, have a, have a, a long track record of, of helping
9:05
people in the various collectibles industries, Not,
9:07
not cars necessarily, but things like sports cards and trading
9:12
cards and other pop culture collectibles, what is real,
9:17
what's not real and help, help not only verify that, but make
9:20
sure that consumers know what they are buying is what they are
9:24
expecting to buy. And and so that's, that's all
9:26
been a part of me getting here. How big of a deal is fraud in
9:30
these worlds? I mean it's.
9:31
Much bigger than you would think.
9:33
Yeah, much bigger than you would think.
9:34
And it's kind of a dirty secret because look, if word gets out
9:38
that there's a lot of fraud and a lot of fakes and it really
9:41
scares the way people from buying and it and it prevents a
9:43
big barricade people that from entering these hobbies.
9:46
And you know, these are fun hobbies, right?
9:49
They're supposed to be spreading joy and fun and things that
9:52
honestly like affected us all as kids that make us happy.
9:56
If it becomes a scary prospect or a scary hobby that that fewer
10:01
people enter and a few people enter, the hobby over time will
10:04
get smaller. And, and, and, and my feeling is
10:08
if there's something that brings us joy, wouldn't it be cool to
10:10
brought other people joy? And so my intent with a lot of
10:15
this is to make these potentially scary hobbies more
10:18
accessible to people who have the, the passion and enthusiasm
10:22
to get into it. Same thing with cars.
10:24
Like when I help these guys with their cars, it's like, Hey,
10:27
you'd be a great fit for this hobby.
10:29
You bring a lot of joy and passion and, and things that I,
10:32
I, I would love to see more of if I can keep you from harm's
10:35
way and have you have a good time and not get burned and
10:40
actually get a lot of enjoyment from the process.
10:42
You will stay in the hobby for a long time and bring a lot of
10:45
enjoyment to the rest of us who like hanging out.
10:46
Yeah. Yeah, you know, and I suppose,
10:48
you know, counterfeiting, for lack of a better term, a
10:51
baseball card is a little easier than a car, but yet people do it
10:54
all the time. And there are things you know,
10:55
to look for that someone like me who you know well pretty into
10:59
this thing would never think to think of right or never know to
11:01
to look. For well, and that's, that's one
11:03
of the things you have to see a lot of things before you realize
11:05
what's real and what's not real. But like, you know, the good old
11:08
saying, you know, of the, of the, you know, 20, a Porsche
11:12
9/11 Rs they made in the late 1960s, there are only 39 left in
11:17
the world, you know, and that's, and that's kind of one of the
11:22
things that that that goes on. And there's certain cars that
11:24
are more prone to it and, and certain cars that are harder to
11:27
do, but it exists. So, you know, it's good for
11:30
people who are getting into this hobby who want to get in on a
11:33
high level to sort of have a trusted person who can, you
11:37
know, look at things for them and say what's what.
11:39
And you know, the thing about me is, you know, I don't sell cars.
11:42
You know, I don't have any skin in the game with any of that
11:44
stuff. They're simply asking for my
11:47
opinion, which I'm happy to share it.
11:49
And whether the car is $10,000 or $10 million, they get my
11:55
opinion. And the value of that opinion is
11:58
the same no matter what. And so it's just nice and easy.
12:01
You work with a lot of $10,000 cars or?
12:03
No, you know, other than when I, when I, when I buy those for my
12:08
kids, there really haven't been any 10,000.
12:11
Dollars. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
12:13
I think you use the term high level, but I think a lot of this
12:15
is right in the middle of sort of fuck you money territory,
12:19
right? Yeah.
12:19
So we're talking cars like, you know, Ferrari 250 Gtos, right?
12:24
This is where. You are sort of it's been.
12:25
Grading and advising. Yeah.
12:27
Well, the thing about me is, you know, a lot of times I will say,
12:31
look, I am not the expert on these cars.
12:33
I know a lot, yeah, but I'm not the expert.
12:35
However, there are two experts in the world.
12:38
I know both. Let's bring that Yeah, talk to
12:41
them. And that's.
12:42
And I think that's actually one of the places where why I sort
12:46
of have a a good following is because I'm really good about
12:51
saying like I'm not the expert here, but let's let's bring in
12:54
like one of two people. And the problem with some of the
12:56
experts, I don't think I think it's a problem, but some some
13:00
people don't particularly love it, is that they are so obsessed
13:04
with these highly nuanced details that it's kind of hard
13:08
to get the message of what's actually important there.
13:11
And I am really good at sort of sifting through that and saying,
13:14
look, these details are important, but these other ones
13:16
are the ones you really need to pay attention to.
13:18
And this is kind of what's what. And you know, this is actually a
13:22
good conversation in that it is not binary.
13:26
Like is this car 100% legit or 100% not legit?
13:32
But you know, especially older race cars, they, they have been
13:36
rubbed up on and trashed and rebuilt and, and different
13:40
things have, have happened over over time.
13:42
And it's not a question of is it real or not real?
13:44
It's like, what part of it is real and what part of it is not?
13:47
And then, and then everything has a value.
13:49
So it's like, will you pay this amount of money for this car
13:52
like this? Or is the number back of that?
13:54
And I sort of help them decide for that.
13:56
Stuff. Yeah, yeah.
13:58
And you have. You've travelled the world doing
14:01
this. You have.
14:04
You've gone half around the world only to see a car that
14:06
wasn't as promised. Several times.
14:09
Right. Like what?
14:10
So how does that work? You show up, you know, and
14:14
sometimes these cars are being represented by well known
14:16
people. Yeah, right.
14:18
Sometimes they don't necessarily know what they have isn't quite
14:21
right all the time. Yeah.
14:22
Yeah, yeah. Well, so yes, sometimes I'll
14:28
show up and things aren't aren't as they're supposed to be.
14:30
And I try not to be the bearer of bad news to somebody else.
14:35
That's not really my job. You know, I will often just say
14:40
thank you, I appreciate the time, the hospitality, the car
14:42
is not for us. And I will and I will move on.
14:45
Every now and then the circumstances will dictate that
14:47
I have to say a little bit more than that.
14:48
And, and I do and I try to be gentle, but yet very direct and
14:53
very honest. I don't, I don't beat around the
14:54
Bush because honestly, you know, kind is clear, you know, and
15:00
like I will tell you things that I see.
15:02
And you know, sometimes they insist on my giving them a
15:05
report and I have to remind them.
15:07
Like I, I can appreciate that, but you are not my, my client.
15:12
You can go find your own expert and have them give you a report,
15:15
which has happened several times.
15:17
Nobody has ever up to this point gone against my findings and
15:26
they've only, if anything, further double down that I have
15:32
found, which is really distressing to some people who
15:35
paid many millions of dollars for cars that they thought were
15:38
the real thing that we're not. And you know, as I like to say,
15:43
like, I'm not an expert. I'm just a guy with an opinion,
15:47
but my opinion matters sometimes.
15:50
Are things getting tougher? Because, you know, we've talked
15:52
about this before. We're both into watches and
15:54
specifically tutor watches. And I've told you the story
15:56
about how when I was younger, you know, travelling for work,
15:59
I'd go to these small towns, I'd check Craigslist and oftentimes
16:02
find an old 1680 or, you know, those are the right things, you
16:05
know, and, and, and those I had to stop doing it because, you
16:09
know, I, I almost got burned because things had just gotten
16:12
so good, the fakes, the, the weathering of things.
16:15
And I just, I just felt unqualified.
16:17
I had to step because the same thing happening in the car.
16:19
World. Well, well, this.
16:20
But this is exactly my point where look, I I was the same
16:25
way. Like I loved.
16:26
I didn't have a lot of money then.
16:28
So for me to spend $2000 on a roll, it was like a ton of money
16:31
sitting. Yeah, but it's like I could buy
16:32
one. I could have it for a little
16:33
while and see if it wasn't the right watch for me, I could
16:36
trade it in on another one that might be 2500 or $3000.
16:40
Yeah. And what's happened is, as you
16:42
said, all of these things have become so much more
16:44
sophisticated that now you really need to be an expert to
16:47
do this. And guess what?
16:48
I don't really buy Rolexes anymore.
16:50
Like, like, like I have. I have a couple and I rotate
16:55
through them and I would love to buy another one, but I am afraid
16:57
to go fishing on the secondary market because I am not
17:00
knowledgeable enough. This is exactly why like the
17:03
point for the point of cars, it's good to have somebody to
17:08
advise you because if you want to get in in this hobby, like
17:12
somebody has to be there to sort of like lower the barrier of
17:15
entry so you can come in and enjoy it.
17:17
Like if I had a person like me tell me with Rolexes, the
17:20
problem is the Rolexes I would buy are generally not valuable
17:23
to have somebody like me. But but that would be, but that
17:26
would be great and make it more enjoyable.
17:28
Also, it's not like if I'm buying so many Rolexes that it'd
17:32
be worth it. I mean, I might be one more
17:33
right And so, but that's but that's but your point is is
17:37
exactly the reason that people call me up is like, I really
17:42
like to get into this. It seems really hard to be able
17:45
to find the right thing without getting burned.
17:47
Yeah, and so many parallels, right.
17:49
Like, you know, that's a service dial on a, you know, watch that
17:52
shouldn't have it or something. You told me the story and I
17:54
don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but you checked out a
17:56
car recently, I think on the other side of the world, and it
17:59
was a homologated car. And you knew that this car, just
18:03
for homologation purposes, had to have a bumper.
18:06
Yeah, but the bumper on the race car was simply tap welded,
18:10
basically to look like the real thing.
18:11
Yeah. Yes.
18:12
You checked out this car. You got underneath it.
18:14
Yeah, yeah. Well, that car in particular
18:17
turned out to be legit. It did.
18:19
That one was yeah. It had the right bumper.
18:23
So this is the car you're talking about.
18:25
I'll try and keep the models out of it, but Yep, sent me to look
18:29
at it. It looks exactly like a normal
18:30
streetcar, but they're tells to say that it is a race car.
18:33
It has a fiberglass floor so the seats do not mount to the floor
18:37
because there's nothing to mount to.
18:38
But you wouldn't tell that there's actually the.
18:41
The frame rails run through and the seats have a special
18:44
mounting and it looks just like the normal.
18:47
Version. It's made to look like that, but
18:49
because they had to homologate it as the streetcar.
18:51
But of course it's kind of kind of a cheater.
18:53
It has bumpers, but the bumpers do not go through to the frame
18:57
like the streets. They go through these little
18:59
tiny bumper mounts that are tack welded with three or four small
19:04
tack welds on it. If you actually lean up against
19:07
that bumper, it could break off. That's why, yes, that car you're
19:11
thinking of a different OK, just to be clear, but that car itself
19:15
was, was legit. And I, and I checked it and
19:17
those are all things to check for because, and here's a good a
19:21
good story. For a long time, those cars sold
19:25
for the same money as streetcars because people could not tell
19:28
them apart. Interesting.
19:29
And then it's only when people, you know, again, I would say
19:33
people who are experts much more than I started documenting
19:36
these. They're like, these are the
19:37
differences with the race cars, but they had to make them look
19:40
almost identical because Ferrari went into homologation issues.
19:45
It was a Ferrari in the in the 60s with that.
19:48
Is Ferrari sort of like Ground Zero for fraud, you think?
19:52
Or a Porsche Porsche. Porsche is Ground Zero and it's
19:56
because I mean 9 elevens were heavily changed.
20:02
But for the most part, things stayed the same.
20:05
Door sizes were the same and parts could mix and match so
20:09
easily. And then there's so much
20:11
restoration in air cooled Porsche that people could take
20:15
certain cars and make it into another car.
20:20
And all you need is enough time and, and maybe the right
20:25
pedigree of ownership to sort of like whitewash a car from where
20:30
it's like, well, that guy has a very special blah, blah, blah.
20:34
And then you go look at it and you're like, well, let me just
20:37
tell you, this car is definitely not that.
20:39
But it takes a really trained eye.
20:41
And again, there are guys way more experienced than me who
20:45
know what's what. I mean, there's not not a lot of
20:47
them, but but but they're big guys with big names.
20:50
And I think one of the problems that's actually really cast a
20:53
lot of dispersion, yeah, with this is a couple of the really
20:57
big Porsche names that people would know have recently got in
21:00
trouble for fraud because they themselves so that they could
21:03
cash in. Yes, by legitimizing cars that
21:05
were not real. And I don't have to mention any
21:08
names, but, but just do a little Googling and some, some big
21:11
names will turn up that, that, that, you know, indicted on
21:14
fraud. And again, you know, one of the
21:17
things that I and people will say to me from time to time,
21:20
like, oh, well, you should sell cars, you know, so much.
21:22
I'm like, the last thing I want to do is sell cars like I, I, I
21:26
make money in a whole different realm of, of industry.
21:31
I'm happy to just share my. Yeah, yeah.
21:32
And I think that's that's the brilliant part, right?
21:34
I mean, it'll forever be fun. Yeah, yeah.
21:37
And that's the thing. Once it starts being business,
21:39
it kind of takes away, you know, what do you make of all the cars
21:42
that are just shooting up in value right now?
21:44
Is it, are they substitutes for NFTS?
21:47
Like what's going on? Because cars, their cars are
21:48
doubling their auction estimates and.
21:51
Well, that is actually interesting.
21:53
And because my regular day job profession doesn't involve NFTS,
21:58
I have like a little bit of relevant knowledge for all of
22:01
that. No, I, I actually have a whole
22:05
different theory that that I think is different from
22:07
everybody else. First of all, I think people are
22:14
having a challenging time finding places that they feel
22:18
are worth putting their money. And I'm not talking about people
22:20
like you or me. I'm talking about people with
22:24
basically bank accounts where the zeros I mean, go and and
22:33
cars have taken on a level of popularity where before these
22:37
people would be just purely into things like art or I mean,
22:42
things like like rare instruments and things like
22:44
that. You know, now we're like, oh,
22:47
well, maybe, maybe there's something to this whole car game
22:50
and they are coming in. There is also sensational
22:53
sensationalism going on with relatively recent cars and we're
22:57
talking things like Enzos and 280 Eights and even things like
23:01
F-12 TDFS and, and, and, and that is bringing things up a
23:07
little bit because those are cars people see and recognize.
23:09
And they're like, oh, and we're in the art world.
23:12
Like spending 40 or $50 million is not a big deal.
23:17
They come over to the car world and they're like, oh, I can buy
23:19
this or I can buy it. And so these are the 11,000,000.
23:21
Dollars. Historically, more car people,
23:23
that's who's. That that is what I think, yeah,
23:25
behind this. Yeah, I can.
23:26
And I think they're they're coming in.
23:28
And then I also think there's been a vast creation of wealth
23:31
over the last few years and people who are car people and
23:34
now they have cash out of certain, they have so much cash,
23:36
they're like. Younger people younger.
23:39
People, some of it is, you know, I mean, they've received the
23:43
money in different ways and, and there's kind of like, well, I
23:48
have all this money. It's not going to affect me one
23:50
way. If I spend, you know, $8 million
23:54
on a Ferrari 288 GTLI don't really care.
23:56
It was two and a half million dollars just a couple years ago.
23:59
I really would like that car. And, and so I see some things
24:03
where I'm like, man, that is a car that that should be that
24:08
money all day long. And it's finally getting there.
24:10
And I see some things where I'm just like, I didn't think that
24:13
price would be there for another seven or eight years, if if even
24:16
then. But it is what it is.
24:19
Do I think it's gonna continue to go like this?
24:21
I don't think so. Yeah.
24:23
I don't have a crystal ball. Crystal ball's in the
24:26
restoration shop with some of the cars.
24:27
A. Little Polish.
24:29
Yeah, he needs a little electrical connector kick to see
24:35
a little bit better. But I think that I think that
24:40
some stuff's going to have to balance out.
24:42
But I also feel like there's a lot of opportunities still.
24:44
I really do feel there's a lot of opportunities still.
24:46
And I think as more people come into this and they kind of
24:49
refine their own tastes, their tastes are going to manifest in
24:57
different cars going up that maybe people don't quite
24:59
realize. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:00
The other thing I think is kind of neat is with this influx of
25:02
young people, they're driving these cars and the way that
25:05
maybe they weren't being driven before.
25:06
I didn't see this in the grand. We see.
25:08
Yeah, you know, we're we're both, I think we said we're both
25:11
about 50 years old. Yep.
25:13
But we're seeing people considerably younger than us.
25:15
Yeah, in the grand now driving cars that you wouldn't
25:18
necessarily say, you know what would would have associated
25:21
them. With no Absolutely. 50s.
25:22
Cars and and let me tell you, God bless them because it is
25:26
like great to finally see these cars being used the right way.
25:29
Like my, you know, I my, my Co driver in the grand.
25:34
We had a conversation while we were ripping up one of the
25:36
passes. I'm like, what do you think
25:38
about bias ply tires for this car?
25:40
So I can so I can drive it more in the spirit of which the car
25:44
was made. And I mean, let me tell you,
25:46
we're driving 9/10, you know, and I'm like, I love that idea.
25:51
Of course, of course it's, it's, it's drizzling and raining when
25:55
we're having this conversation. So like, maybe not at this
25:57
moment, but yes. And like dry and listen, the
26:01
cars love it. The cars don't do well to sit,
26:04
you know, every car in here gets driven.
26:07
And, and it's and to me, that's an important part of ownership.
26:10
It's like, don't, don't have it. And like brag about how low
26:15
miles are. I, I will just tell you this
26:16
like I don't have a single great memory about any of my cars that
26:20
involve that having no miles, right?
26:22
You know, like, like I have a lot of great stories of, oh, let
26:26
me tell you, like one of my kids and I got in the car and we went
26:29
up in the mountains and we did this and we had an amazing day
26:35
just ripping down these amazing roads and, and, and you know,
26:39
the falling leaves are like flying behind us.
26:40
It's just amazing. I remember that.
26:43
I don't remember poshing it in the garage.
26:46
It's the whole Ferris Bueller thing, right?
26:48
You know? I mean, it's just, you know,
26:50
there's no joy in that. And life is short, you know, and
26:53
we're at the age we're starting to lose friends and right,
26:55
people. And yeah, did you know Phil
26:57
Crock GT4 who just passed? Away the guy out in California,
27:01
Yes, yeah, I knew him a little bit through France, yeah,
27:05
unfortunately, but yeah. Yeah, yeah.
27:07
And I didn't know him either. We communicated through DMS once
27:11
in a while, but he of course was known for putting all these
27:13
miles on his sharkified GT4. And his last?
27:19
A bit of advice to the rest of us is go and drive your car.
27:21
Yeah, absolutely. It's true, absolutely.
27:23
Yep. Well, everything in here has
27:25
been, you know, made, made to get miles and made to drive.
27:28
And I set it up for for driving and I set it for our.
27:30
Driving. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:31
For our our mountain. Roads and and and our trips and,
27:36
you know, I have, I have luggage I'm not afraid to use.
27:39
Yeah. Like, wait, Ferrari luggage you
27:41
use? Yeah.
27:42
Oh, get out. I know, I know, it's not.
27:45
Is that revolution? All right, so you obviously are
27:48
a big Ferrari guy. I've never owned a Ferrari.
27:51
We'll have to own a Ferrari at some point.
27:53
You know, I'm always looking at the cheap Ferraris, of course,
27:56
like, you know, should have bought a 360, should have bought
27:58
a 550 when they were $80,000. Right now I've been priced out.
28:03
But what should we stay away from for a modest, you know, you
28:08
know, a person of modest means such as myself, What are we
28:11
avoiding? What are we going to these days?
28:13
I'll give you I'll give you a little bit of both.
28:15
OK. So the easy, so the easy answer
28:18
to the Ferrari to avoid, yeah, is do not buy the Ferrari.
28:23
That is not for you. And let me tell you what I mean
28:25
by that, because that is is an easy mistake.
28:29
Ferrari made different cars during different eras for
28:32
different types of people. And one of the cars that I have
28:36
is a 512 BBI. It is an amazing car.
28:39
It is very sporty. It has a big V12.
28:42
I had a Daytona years ago and it to me it is like the perfect
28:46
next car after the Daytona. But it doesn't have that feel of
28:51
the mid 80s cars like the Testarossa or 328 or 348.
28:56
It has more of that Daytona type field, but it can be a little
29:00
bit twitchy. You have to really drive it
29:04
properly and it takes a certain kind of owner for it.
29:08
Well, the journalists said this and it was the fastest car in
29:11
the world when it came out. And the journalists were like,
29:13
this car is really fast and this thing is amazing, but I can't
29:17
have no room for luggage and I can't do this and I can't, my
29:21
girlfriend can't pack this and that when we go on a weekend
29:23
trip. And it was like largely
29:24
criticized by journalists for that.
29:26
No problem. Ferrari takes that and then they
29:28
make the Testarossa. Now the five point BBI is a
29:31
largely hand built car. You lift up the clams, you see
29:34
the hammer marks under the shell.
29:36
It is just an awesome car in all that respect.
29:41
You go to the Testarossa, which is in not all of them, but they
29:46
eventually became faster than the 512 BBI and it is a cooler,
29:52
more comfortable cabin, without doubt, and a lot of these
29:56
complaints for the 512 BBI. The address for the Testarossa.
29:59
However, people think that they will buy a Testarossa and they
30:03
are getting a sports car. They think they're buying a
30:05
Testarossa and they are getting Don Johnson.
30:08
The Miami bikes flying down the Rickenbacker.
30:10
Causeway, Yeah, yeah. OK, the Testarossa is meant to
30:14
take you and your wife or girlfriend and all your luggage,
30:18
cuz you get fitted luggage for it, to the casino at Monaco at
30:23
really high speeds in the middle of the night.
30:27
And you can put your hand on her knee and you don't have to worry
30:33
about the car is going to track totally straight and all that.
30:38
It is maybe not as thrilling as other Ferraris.
30:40
And if you buy it thinking that you're going to get this really
30:42
thrilling, really engaging, really dynamic car, you just
30:46
bought the wrong Ferrari for you.
30:48
You are looking for something else.
30:50
And Ferrari was very, very aware of this as as time went on.
30:58
And it's snowing. It's.
31:00
Snowing. Unbelievable.
31:02
Yeah, Ferrari was aware of this as time went on.
31:06
And so you have different models that do different things, Unlike
31:09
Porsche where every version of the 9/11 is better than the
31:13
Versa came before it, Ferrari has different cars in different
31:16
eras that accomplish different things.
31:19
And that's why I think it's important to really, if you're
31:21
going to buy Ferraris, to understand what each car does
31:23
and what it and what it's supposed to do and what it's
31:25
meant to do and where it fit in in their history and buy the
31:28
right car for you. It is really easy to buy the
31:30
wrong car for you. Yeah, yeah.
31:32
You think there's still some meat on the bone with the
31:35
testarossas and the? Yeah, I listen.
31:38
I I love that flat 12 mid engine layout.
31:45
I mean they made essentially 2 big models if you call the Boxer
31:49
and the Testarossa models and then they made several
31:52
iterations. There's three Boxer iterations
31:56
and there are essentially 4 Testarosa iteration.
32:00
So you have the original Testarosa, you have the 88 1/2
32:02
version, you have the 512 TR, and then you have the.
32:05
Break those down if you could. So sure, we all know the
32:07
original that was the single. Mirror, yes, the original 1 of
32:11
single mirror, but it doesn't have to be OK, but single log
32:14
yeah, they made that through the middle of 1988 and then they
32:17
made. Repeating attention to that.
32:18
That's interesting. Yeah, that's true.
32:20
Yep. And then they updated it with a
32:22
whole variety of internal changes.
32:26
The way to really know which one it is, is you look at the
32:28
wheels, Everybody can look at the wheels.
32:30
If it has 5 bolts for the wheels, it is the 80 1/2 version
32:33
which they made from 1980 1/2 to the end of 91.
32:37
Starting in 1992. They made the 512 TR and the 512
32:41
TR. They tried to get back to that
32:44
boxer sportiness. The engine is, I believe, like a
32:47
couple inches further forward. It's an inch and a half lower,
32:50
lowers the center of gravity. They reinforced a lot of things
32:53
with that car. It got more power.
32:57
People tend to love it because of those improvements in the
33:01
driving. However, there's a lot of people
33:03
that think the looks are just different enough than the
33:05
original TR that they're like, can't do it, need the original
33:09
TR. And then the very last version
33:10
of it was the M. They made 75 US cars, 501 World
33:14
cars, if I remember correctly. It has a whole series of
33:18
upgrades, but two or three very polarizing design.
33:23
Yes, one is the exposed headlights.
33:26
The second are the twist three piece wheels, and the third,
33:31
which some people really don't care for and some people don't
33:34
mind it. So that's why I say it's 2 or
33:36
maybe 3. The third are the tail lights.
33:38
Instead of having the square testarose tail lights with the
33:41
slats, you have these round tail lights in the back.
33:44
I happen to love it. Some people do it.
33:46
And is it kind of like Lamborghinis where you want to
33:48
buy like a really early car or like a Porsche 928 like a really
33:51
early car or a very late car? I'm a big, I'm a big late car.
33:57
Yeah, I have like these cars here.
34:01
I have, I think this might be the last manual 355 Berlinetta
34:05
I've made for the US market. That is one of I think the five
34:09
last 575 Marinellos with the FHP made before they went to the
34:14
Super America. Super America production started
34:16
right after this car was made. The the 360 is is the last 2002
34:23
car made. Now they went all the way to
34:25
2004, but there's a series of important changes I think
34:28
happened in 2002. And I of course like keep a
34:31
little file with all the assembly number.
34:32
Breakdowns. Of course you do.
34:35
And and then I have, I have one of the last hundred 512 Bbis,
34:40
which actually has a whole series of changes that you can
34:43
see that's different than all the rest of the five twelves.
34:46
And then really, and you know, if you actually really study
34:49
things like boxers, they improved that thing all the way
34:52
until the end. And you can see it when you have
34:54
a like a restoration guy taken apart, he will show you the
34:58
wells are different, things are different.
34:59
They really improved it. So the 360, let's come back to
35:01
the 360 because I know you're a big fan.
35:03
You're just dialed in. They're not quite the quote UN
35:06
quote cheap Ferrari they were 10 years ago.
35:08
And Doug Damiro bought one for 40 grand or whatever.
35:10
But there's still, it's still a model that comes up a lot with
35:13
younger people who have a little bit of money to spend is sort of
35:16
the sweet spot. Yeah, almost the transitional
35:18
car between like old and new Ferrari and all this.
35:21
Still one to buy? Yeah, Well, look, I think here,
35:26
here's a good classic breakdown. I have 6 Ferraris, three of them
35:30
are Enzo Ferrari Ferraris, right?
35:33
The the three O 8 Group 4 car, the 512 BBI and the F-40, which
35:38
is the last car. And then I have three cars that
35:41
are Luca, the Montezemolo cars. And and I would say maybe his
35:46
three most impactful cars, the 355, which was the first thing
35:50
he did when he came in. He said I don't like the 348,
35:52
which I honestly have to say that is a a very popular notion
35:57
that is misplaced. The 3:48, if you know what
36:00
you're doing, buy the right ones.
36:02
They are amazing cars, but you have to buy the right one and
36:04
know what what, what the goods and the bads are.
36:06
So that was the real. Departure between the 348 and
36:08
the 3:50. Five, yeah.
36:09
So 355, they couldn't do a whole overhaul that was coming with
36:13
the 360, but they made a bunch of really important technical
36:16
changes. And the 355 just to be really
36:20
clear, that is a car that I think people with very, very
36:24
substantial collections are starting to gravitate to and
36:27
buying them for their collections.
36:29
And they all love driving them and they're, they are
36:32
maintenance heavy. But again, if you know what
36:35
you're doing, they're not more maintenance heavy necessarily
36:37
than than other cars, other Ferraris.
36:41
But but they are special. Those I think actually have.
36:44
Yeah. I mean, they're they're a little
36:45
hot right now, but they have room to get a lot hotter based
36:48
on how good they are. But so the transition went from
36:51
that to the 360. The 360 was the first aluminum
36:54
construction. It was the first, I call that to
36:56
be the first modern Ferrari. OK.
36:58
The size is different. The size of the cabin is
37:00
different. One of the big things was when
37:02
they launched that car, it's like, look, you can put golf
37:04
clubs. Yeah.
37:04
In that behind. Yeah, yeah.
37:05
And Americans in the driver's seat.
37:07
Yeah. And that is also the first car
37:10
that I think really launched Ferrari having wait lists.
37:14
And it was a combination of two things.
37:16
One is look goes like this is the car you can daily drive and
37:20
really push that. And then the second thing about
37:22
it is it also came right at the height of the.com boom where I
37:26
think all these people have lots of money and they could do that.
37:28
This is the car that's essentially launched wait lists
37:31
for Ferrari in my opinion. In my opinion, it is a fantastic
37:35
car. People have slept on it, but let
37:37
me let me say a couple of things about the 360.
37:40
It is the last iteration of the engine architecture that began
37:43
with the Dino. OK, the Dino is AV 6, but it is
37:47
the same architecture from the Dino all the way to this for the
37:50
4:30, it's completely new engine architecture and it's really
37:56
Max. The 4:30 is really maximized for
37:58
the F1 transmission. Like all these things, this is
38:01
and mine's a manual from the factory.
38:04
It may be the best manual transmission made it to an
38:09
engine of all the Ferraris, really.
38:11
Yeah. It, it just works.
38:12
Everything flows perfectly. It it's a it's a beautiful feel
38:16
to it. It it's it's really great.
38:20
I think manual three 60s are incredibly underrated.
38:22
And when people are talking about paying $1,000,000 for a
38:25
challenge Strada, but yet you have manual three 60s that are
38:31
200 two 25 for you know, 25,000 miles like I I think I think
38:36
that is a bargain. Now I will tell you a couple
38:39
more things about it. What they did with the challenge
38:42
for Dali was amazing. It is an incredibly engaging
38:46
car, a real sense of occasion, really well built and well made.
38:51
The big shortcoming is just have manual transmission now.
38:54
People now will buy them and do a conversion.
38:57
I did the other with this car 10 years ago.
39:00
I think I bought it 12 years ago now.
39:03
I bought it. It was a manual 360 with
39:05
literally it had three options. It had Fender Shields, colored
39:11
calipers, and ACD changer. Key Key option.
39:16
Yeah, right. And I'm like, this is great.
39:17
I'm going to make this into a challenge drawing.
39:19
Well, the owner before me owned one of the challenge teams and
39:22
he had put some a couple cool parts on not that many, but I
39:27
was able to source all the challenge alley parts, all the
39:30
body parts, the the rear deck lid with the Lexan, all of that
39:34
stuff. It has challenge seats in it.
39:37
It has a full carbon fiber interior, including the door
39:40
cards from one of the Lamont Racing F430GT cars, which fit
39:47
right in this thing. Yeah.
39:48
And I've lightened it by a couple, £100.
39:51
I've lightened it by a couple, £100.
39:53
It has center lock challenge wheels on it.
39:55
Yeah, Yep. And So what?
39:57
I didn't really change the car as much as take off things that
40:04
were. Stifling its personality, right?
40:08
So by removing the weight and putting a few more race oriented
40:12
parts on it, it really woke the car up and you get an extreme
40:18
sense of what this car was meant to be and what it does.
40:24
And people say, oh, how come you don't have like a 997 or, you
40:27
know, whatever Porsche. I'm like, well, I have this 360
40:32
and if I don't know what the day has, I don't know who we're
40:34
meeting or where we're going or whatever.
40:36
I take the 360 because it could do anything.
40:38
It has 380mm giant Brembo brakes on.
40:43
I've done track construction in this car and the car has never
40:46
like even had as much of A about it.
40:49
Yeah, I have done 1000 mile Rd. trips in this car with an old
40:55
girlfriend who was completely comfortable the whole time.
40:57
That is actually a real barometer.
40:59
Yeah. And like, had a great time.
41:03
It has been up and down the coast of, I mean, it's an
41:09
amazing car. I think as time goes on, it'll
41:12
be appreciated more. But the two cars that I think
41:14
really have a lot of room are the, then they're back-to-back
41:17
the 355. Yeah.
41:18
Yeah. And the 360 have a lot of room.
41:21
Yeah. And the other car that I think
41:22
everybody is, is just the most insane bargain right now is the
41:26
575. Yeah, yeah.
41:29
So for years I had a 550 Marinello and I sold it a few
41:33
years ago and when I want to get back in the Marinello and I was
41:36
kind of going back through all my notes, I was like, man, the
41:38
575 is a much better built car. Two things hold that car back.
41:44
The standard suspension holds it back.
41:46
It's a Skyhook suspension. It's kind of floaty, not that
41:49
good. And then the F1 transmission, I
41:51
will have to say as far as single clutch F1 transmissions
41:56
go, this works really well. However, the FHP suspension
42:02
completely transforms the car and it really makes it a better
42:06
than the than the the 5:50 in handling.
42:09
So now you have better handling and a more robust, really more
42:15
well built and capable car. And then for the manual
42:19
transmission, well, there kind of places that will be converted
42:22
for you. Just this car is not made for F1
42:24
and if you look it on the lift has everything for the manual.
42:28
And so it's a very easy conversion, much easier than a
42:31
lot of other cars. Interesting, interesting.
42:32
And and Jeff you know 550 Marinello's or 250 for
42:39
exceptional ones in in good colors.
42:42
The same car in a 575 of late 575 with FHP is like mid ones at
42:50
best 14150 and that and it is it is a sin.
42:55
It should be they, they should be, they should be more than
42:58
550. It's.
42:59
The Ferrari bargain. I think it is it is it is it is
43:02
the bargain right now and I don't know how long it's going
43:04
to last. Yeah, but you know, I mean I
43:06
bought issue, but I bought I bought mine at a great time in
43:11
in like and you know my Butler with 12,000 miles on it for a
43:15
bargain. It's a hell of a cartoon, but
43:17
more of a GT car. Yeah, but more I would argue
43:21
it's much more sporty OK than a Testarossa interesting or even
43:25
A5 even a 512 TR I don't. Think a lot of people.
43:27
They don't do that because well, and, and, and, and if I didn't
43:31
communicate that super, super well, right?
43:33
And I have a whole theory on the suspension, all that.
43:36
I think when the 550 came out, you had these guys getting out
43:39
of their Testarossas. And you got to remember if you
43:41
walked into a Ferrari dealership in, you walked into a Ferrari
43:44
dealership in, let's call it 2001, you could have chosen a
43:51
360 with a manual transmission for probably somewhere around
43:55
$120,000 or for double the price of 2-3 CS, you could buy a 550
44:03
mirror note that is a different buyer, right?
44:05
And it was typically an older gentleman who had a Daytona who
44:09
had, you know, maybe a Testarossa.
44:14
And like, I want AV 12. This is the V12 I want and they
44:17
got in it and man that car is a sporty car.
44:20
It had a spherical ball mount, a suspension 550 and they got into
44:25
this thing and like man, this thing is way fast.
44:29
I mean it was almost a 200 mile an hour car. 575 is a 201 mile
44:35
an hour car Yep, and you had tons of power UP50485 for for a
44:42
5:50 and 5:15 for a 575. And I think these guys like this
44:47
thing is like way too much car. Well, before I heard that
44:50
they've softened it, yeah, 575, you got the softer suspension.
44:54
But then people came for the sports car, got on saying like
44:56
this thing is more of a touring car.
44:58
Well, guess what? I was like, well, here's a fear
45:00
on handling package, which by the way is stiffer than the HGTC
45:04
package, which came after that has 90mm clay bars.
45:07
This has 21, so 59. It was available on the 575.
45:11
Well. Very late 575's could get it.
45:13
599's had it on the 599. It's called the HGTE.
45:17
The E stands for Evolucione and and but FHP equipped 575 is an
45:26
incredibly spawny car, but yet also incredibly versatile.
45:29
Yeah, you can put luggage in it, and you can go for a weekend in
45:33
the mountains with your favorite.
45:35
Maybe a good first Ferrari. Listen at the prices today,
45:38
again like people sleep on them and I think and I think that
45:42
that is a bargain. But all three of these cars I
45:45
think, I think are, are relative bargains, especially compared to
45:48
what you mentioned earlier, the price of some of these cars just
45:51
going through the room, right? Yeah, yeah.
45:53
And again, this is knowledge gleaned only, you know, through
45:56
years of ownership and yeah. And you know.
45:58
It took me a few. I don't really sell Ferraris,
46:00
but it took, but it took me going through a few Ferraris to
46:02
figure out what was right for me and what I really like to
46:05
gravitate to and kind of like, you know, like this garage is
46:08
sort of a black hole, right? Like a car, like a Ferrari comes
46:11
in it and it doesn't get sold you.
46:12
Know Yeah, yeah, yeah it's like. It's with me for life and I
46:15
like, yeah. You don't even have lifts in
46:16
here yet, but yeah, we get there.
46:18
Well listen, I know we have a hard stop in 5 minutes, let's do
46:21
a quick speed round. Go for it.
46:23
OK, so you are a Ferrari F-40 owner.
46:25
Yes. Best Ferrari ever made?
46:28
Yes, yeah, Best car ever made. Best car ever, as I would like
46:30
to say. If God made a car and put on the
46:33
earth, this would be it. This would be it.
46:34
All right, that's all we need to know.
46:35
OK, All right, Someday I'm going to bug you into driving yours,
46:38
but sure. All right.
46:40
What do you think about the cheap Ferraris out there, the
46:42
Mondeos, the three O 8 GT? Was it fours or?
46:45
Whatever. Yeah, OK.
46:46
All right, real quick things on it.
46:48
Yes, the Mondial 3.2 yeah is one of the best cars ever made.
46:54
And that's when they flip the engine around, right?
46:56
Nope. No, that is the T that is the T
46:59
that is the T which has a 348 motor and then the engine comes
47:02
out for a major OK the mondial 3.2 especially if you get the
47:05
coupe is one of the best cars ever made.
47:07
It is ultra reliable like a 328 made is very easy to maintain
47:12
very simple things like Bosch cage electronic parts and and
47:16
and a lot of a lot of easy to find parts yeah it is a great
47:20
driving experience has a slightly longer wheelbase yeah
47:22
328 OK of the time and and people sleep on it.
47:27
That is a bargain, Yeah. A really great one that was all
47:30
redone by Steve at EMC Motor Cars in Phoenix.
47:33
Just sold or bring a trailer for like, I think like 39 grand all
47:36
in or something that's got. Always like.
47:38
Them they're they're great cars. The GT 4 is also a great car.
47:42
However, you got to remember a couple things about it.
47:44
It is a carbureted V8. It is the first V8 Ferrari.
47:47
It is the only Ferrari of this kind of more modern era designed
47:52
by Bertone, right? Which?
47:53
I like. Yep, which which is really cool.
47:56
The euro ones are awesome because the bumpers are great.
47:59
the US bumpers are not my favorite thing.
48:01
Harder to retrofit euro bumpers, but they are also awesome cars.
48:05
There was a guy in Naples a few years ago.
48:07
He has I think since retired. His name was Al Iarti and his
48:12
business was strictly Ferrari and he did world class
48:15
restorations on TT fours. That was it.
48:18
And when you saw AGT 4 done by Al brought to market, it was
48:22
beyond reproach. And honestly, he did more for
48:26
that model than anybody's done in the entire lifetime of that
48:29
car and. I think that's one of the hits
48:30
in those cars generally you see when they're kind of rough,
48:32
right? Yes.
48:33
For people who know what Jason Kamisa owns, one drives, one
48:36
talks about it. OK, so.
48:38
And you can get them an amazing period, correct colors.
48:40
That's right, Moroni. That's right.
48:41
That's right. Terrible.
48:43
Tail lights One of the worst Ferrari tail light designs of
48:45
all time. Well.
48:46
Because they came off of another car.
48:47
Take a look at the Lamborghini Yalpa daylights.
48:49
Right. Another oddball favorite of
48:51
mine. Yeah, that's that's true.
48:52
OK, last question, you mentioned Bertoni and then you got to run
48:54
here in 2 minutes. So big mistake when Ferrari
48:57
stopped working in Pennant Farina.
49:00
Oh man, that's above my pay grade.
49:02
But, but I'm very partial to the Pennant Farina cars over the
49:06
cars that came later, you know, for, for a variety of reasons.
49:09
You know, Ferrari makes different cars now for a
49:10
different customer. I think Ferrari has gone from a
49:13
sports car brand to a luxury brand and, and they have gone to
49:17
clients and listen, they have a responsibility to shareholders
49:21
now and things like that. And they have to make cars that
49:22
sell. And they have decided that they
49:24
are going to make cars for people who want luxury products.
49:28
And they want to basically tell the world that they are a luxury
49:32
buyer. And it's different than the
49:34
quirky old guy like me who, hey, watch it drives, drives around
49:38
his old Ferrari. And if you ask me, like, well,
49:41
how often do you change the belts?
49:42
And how do you check the oil and stuff?
49:43
Like, I can tell you all of that stuff.
49:45
You know, I think, I think the new guy, if you asked him, like,
49:48
how do you know what the oil level is in this car?
49:51
He's like, well, if the dash doesn't come on and tell me, I
49:55
just let the dealers just bring it in.
49:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right.
49:58
Well, on that note, I know we've got a bounce, but thank you.
50:01
From a man who knows Ryan Stopka, Appreciate you,
50:04
appreciate your friendship and appreciate your knowledge.
50:05
Thank you very much. My pleasure.
50:06
Do this again soon.