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Christmas Has A Dark Side: The Krampus Episode · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
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  Speaker 1: for tuning in. It's beginning to look a lot like Grampus.
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  Speaker 2: Spoiler off campus.
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  Speaker 1: Shout out to our shout out to our super producer,
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  Speaker 1: mister Max Williams. You are Noel Brown. I am Ben
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  Speaker 1: Bollen and no. Once upon a time, as you often say,
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  Speaker 1: you were a wee German boy, I.
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  Speaker 3: Was young, a young German boy, and I lived my
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  Speaker 3: young German life and fear of crampus and raining down
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  Speaker 3: holiday retribution on my small German frame.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, Gary guy, you can tell, you
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  Speaker 1: can tell from our vibe, folks that this is a
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  Speaker 1: holiday episode. It is that time of year again. For
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  Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of years, people across the planet have
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  Speaker 1: celebrated the end of seasons, the end of the winter
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: season in one way or another, and as we all know,
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  Speaker 1: in the cultural West, the most popular modern celebration of
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  Speaker 1: this is by far Christmas, right, the celebration of the
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  Speaker 1: birth of Jesus Christ. In the US, I would say
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  Speaker 1: it's an increasingly secular thing.
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  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean, it's like a shopping holiday, that's
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  Speaker 4: what it is. But hey, it gives the much needed
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  Speaker 4: cash injection to the old economy, which I guess is
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  Speaker 4: not the worst thing in the world. But boy, hottie,
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  Speaker 4: has ever become just kind of sickeningly commercial?
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  Speaker 2: And you know, it's certainly if you are.
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  Speaker 4: One who practices a faith, you know there are like
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  Speaker 4: nice Christmas Eve services and you know, more kind of
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  Speaker 4: moments of let's say, reflection that can come around Christmas.
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  Speaker 4: But we also know that it can be a little
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  Speaker 4: bit of a difficult time for some folks. Dealing with
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  Speaker 4: family can often be tough, especially if you have completely
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  Speaker 4: different views, which is becoming more and more of the case.
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  Speaker 4: And this are polarizing political climate that I think we
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  Speaker 4: all live in. But one thing that really brings us
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  Speaker 4: all together or tears us all apart, depending on how
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  Speaker 4: you want to look at it, is Crampis.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, hates everybody.
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  Speaker 1: Well, he's kind of I would argue that he's sort
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  Speaker 1: of the Batman to the Superman of Santa. They're attempting
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  Speaker 1: to accomplish the same things but different ways, and you know, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: the whole I really appreciate that point because even if
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  Speaker 1: you don't get along with your family. The holidays can
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  Speaker 1: be tough for other reasons. There are people that you miss,
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  Speaker 1: people who've passed on. You know, there's a moment of
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  Speaker 1: self reflection that I would argue goes beyond specific spiritual values.
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  Speaker 1: And there's fun. You know, you see a ton of
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  Speaker 1: people going out to parties, decorating trees here in the
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  Speaker 1: US and abroad, giving gifts just because they enjoy the community.
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  Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with that. We do know that Christmas
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  Speaker 1: celebrations can differ widely depending on the country or the
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  Speaker 1: community you visit. Like you guys, know you see it
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  Speaker 1: in Mitchell Webb or Peep Show or any of those
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  Speaker 1: other UK shows where they have a Christmas holiday and
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  Speaker 1: they've got like the hats, you.
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  Speaker 4: Know, yeah, a little paper crowns kind of and they
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  Speaker 4: have those weird little paper they look like an oversized
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  Speaker 4: like piece of candy, sort of like a little present
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  Speaker 4: wrapped on both ends and you pull it and it
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  Speaker 4: sort of pops Christmas press.
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  Speaker 2: Isn't that what it's called.
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  Speaker 4: Isn't it sort of like a little popper like it
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  Speaker 4: sort of makes it it shoots confetti out and all
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  Speaker 4: that stuff, just you know, festive fun.
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  Speaker 1: Tom Fooler, and it gets a little metal, a little
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  Speaker 1: heavy metal the further east to coast.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, and and crampoos Is is definitely a very metal
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  Speaker 4: type figure. We're gonna get into some various depictions of them,
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  Speaker 4: but you're right in Norway, Uh, you've got you gotta
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  Speaker 4: hide your brooms before you go to sleep so that
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  Speaker 4: witches and evil spirits don't carry them away. Of course,
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  Speaker 4: we have like the Mule Lads, which is a thing
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  Speaker 4: that we've talked about previously on Regulus History. Like they're
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  Speaker 4: basically this macabre, sort of seven Dwarf type situation. Like
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  Speaker 4: I think there's like window Liquor. No, that's that's an
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  Speaker 4: Aphex Twin song, but there definitely was like windows Sniffer,
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  Speaker 4: doorway Sniffer.
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  Speaker 1: They're named after weirdly sausage sack.
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  Speaker 5: I think it is doorway sniffer. I remember making a
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  Speaker 5: sound cue for all of them, and I remember combining
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  Speaker 5: a doorway and someone sniffing stuff.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, yeah, Window Liquor should well be one of
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  Speaker 4: the yule as. That is, in fact a really awesome
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  Speaker 4: Effects Twins song.
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  Speaker 2: And then there was like cream Curdler Goat.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, well, it was a goat enthusiast.
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  Speaker 2: There was something to do with livestock, though.
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  Speaker 1: There was a lot.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was.
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  Speaker 1: Named for specific actions, which is so weird. It's kind
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  Speaker 1: of the equivalent of no offense to the hunters and
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  Speaker 1: tanners in the audience. But it's like verb or occupation
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  Speaker 1: as a name.
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  Speaker 2: That's Iceland. I got them, I got them up.
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  Speaker 5: Okay, so we got sheep coat Claude who harasses sheep.
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  Speaker 2: We have harasses quote unquote.
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  Speaker 5: Golie Doc who hides in the gullies to sneak in
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  Speaker 5: and steal milk.
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  Speaker 2: We have that's a gully. We have Stubby, who.
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  Speaker 5: Is abnormally short and steals pants to eat the crust
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  Speaker 5: left on them in situations. We have a spoon liquor.
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  Speaker 5: He was a liquor pot scraper. I don't think that
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  Speaker 5: needs to be explained to either.
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  Speaker 1: We also don't have to do the whole paper.
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  Speaker 2: We have bowl liquor. We have door slammer, a bunch.
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  Speaker 5: Of the sky gobbler, sauce, swiper, window pee for.
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  Speaker 2: That's the one you think there it is. I'm almost
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  Speaker 2: not I promise, okay, I'm not almost done. Oh I
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  Speaker 2: am all right. Doorway sniffer.
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  Speaker 5: So the doorway slam door slammer and a doorway sniffer.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, you could combine them like when they adapt movies.
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  Speaker 1: You know, well, they love franchises to the point commercialization
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  Speaker 1: and spin offs.
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  Speaker 5: And candle steelers, because the whole thing was to educate
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  Speaker 5: children to not be wasteful.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so we've got Norway and Iceland. What about Japan.
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  Speaker 4: There's very oddly americanized traditions in Japan that we don't
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  Speaker 4: even consider a holiday tradition over here.
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  Speaker 2: It's very odd.
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  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you brought this up in Japan. I've
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  Speaker 1: never been. I've spent time in Japan, but I've never
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  Speaker 1: been during their Christmas season.
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  Speaker 4: You gotta get KFC. It's a holiday bundle like jushed up.
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  Speaker 4: It's a whole what's the word like a promotional thing. Right,
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  Speaker 4: it comes with a Christmas cake. It's some of the
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  Speaker 4: most effective marketing in recent history, to the point where
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  Speaker 4: the because you know, I just got back a little
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  Speaker 4: while ago around the Halloween season, and already people were
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  Speaker 4: placing their orders for their KFC no other except no substitutions,
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  Speaker 4: their KFC Christmas meal, which comes with a Christmas cake
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  Speaker 4: and even it like, I didn't know this. In Caracas.
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  Speaker 4: In Venezuela, you're supposed to use roller skates to travel
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  Speaker 4: to early morning Mass on Christmas Day, which is kind
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  Speaker 4: of cool. They shut down the city streets.
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  Speaker 1: Weller.
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  Speaker 2: Skating is hard, it's.
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  Speaker 1: More difficult that it looks bekind to your skating enthusiast friends.
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  Speaker 4: Sure, but we're not talking backwards. Really quick question that
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  Speaker 4: the backtrack ever so slightly been. Is KFC popular year
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  Speaker 4: round in Japan or just around the holidays?
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  Speaker 1: It is popular in Japan. It has similar to turkey, right,
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  Speaker 1: people eat turkey deli meat all the year round in
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  Speaker 1: the United States, but fifty percent of the turkey's consumed
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  Speaker 1: are consumed on Thanksgiving. So KFC has successfully commercialized this
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  Speaker 1: and that's going to be again. Commercialization is going to
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  Speaker 1: be a big, big part of this episode. As we're saying,
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  Speaker 1: the further east you go closer to central Europe, you
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  Speaker 1: see a more sinister, somewhat Christmas season.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's less about treats and more about being punished
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  Speaker 4: and beaten into submission for your evil sins. No good kids.
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  Speaker 4: Germany and Austria specifically is kind of where we're going
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  Speaker 4: to focus today Saint Nicholas. You know, I believe he
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  Speaker 4: was a bishop. You know, he was definitely like a
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  Speaker 4: like a like a religious leader. You know, like a
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  Speaker 4: lot of images of him have like wearing like a
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  Speaker 4: pope hat kind of situation. So he is, of course
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  Speaker 4: the purveyor of treats and gifts for a well behaved
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  Speaker 4: year if you're a kid. But you know, we have
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  Speaker 4: our Santa Claus, who I guess. You know, a lot
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  Speaker 4: of these myths get mushed together. But the whole idea
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  Speaker 4: of a coal in the stocking and no presence and
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  Speaker 4: all of that stuff, I don't think anybody actually does that,
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  Speaker 4: but it's part of the mythos. But Saint Nick doesn't
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  Speaker 4: really have that. So he kind of needed a more
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  Speaker 4: let's say, retribution wielding counterpart.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, he outsourced his dirty work in Central European legends
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  Speaker 1: and folklore. Old Nick hires out a guy called Crampis.
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  Speaker 1: Crampis is a half goat, half demon monster that punishes,
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  Speaker 1: as you said, misbehaving children when the Karmic bill comes
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  Speaker 1: due at Christmas time. The descriptions very regent region but
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  Speaker 1: pretty consistently. He looks like a devil, which is a
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  Speaker 1: satyr the devil. Yeah, he looks like Satan basically.
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  Speaker 4: He's got kind of curved rams horns kind of or
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  Speaker 4: like goat type horns, and like you said, cloven hooves,
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  Speaker 4: the sort of what do you call it, like a
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  Speaker 4: like a satyr, like like the pan you know, sort
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  Speaker 4: of angled legs, you know, the kind of a bend.
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  Speaker 2: In the middle weirdly outward.
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  Speaker 4: Uh, yeah, like like pan pans, labyrinth kind of that vibe.
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  Speaker 4: He often carries seen carrying like a sack, uh, and
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  Speaker 4: a pitchfork sometimes or some other weapon like a whip
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  Speaker 4: or is very sen my, honestly, he's he's a lot.
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  Speaker 1: Like that guy who beat the snot out of that
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  Speaker 1: other dude in Congress. He carries around a birch branch.
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  Speaker 1: In some regions he's always covered in course for uh.
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  Speaker 1: He often has chains or sometimes bells or sometimes chains
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  Speaker 1: with bells wrapped around his upper torso in his arms.
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  Speaker 1: And so he comes to town the night before the
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  Speaker 1: feast of Saint Nicholas. This is not a Christmas eve guy.
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  Speaker 1: This is an early December guy. And if you were
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  Speaker 1: hearing this today, ridiculous historians, congratulations, you have escaped Crampus.
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  Speaker 1: If you are in I Love you, point out the
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  Speaker 1: sack and sometimes it's like a backpack or a basket
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  Speaker 1: on his back, and he has a series of punishments
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  Speaker 1: like if you're bad, he might just spank you with
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  Speaker 1: his birch branch. If you're super bad, if you're like
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  Speaker 1: felonious level bad, you might end up in the sack.
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  Speaker 1: What happens to those kids, anybody's guests. Rumor on the
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  Speaker 1: street is he's either going to eat you or drown
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  Speaker 1: you in a river or cart you off to hell.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, Like it's very much. If you've ever seen
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  Speaker 4: the movie, Uh, Drag Me to Hell, it's that kind
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  Speaker 4: of thing where he might actually literally come up from
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  Speaker 4: the underworld and grab you by the ends pull you
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  Speaker 4: down into the fiery abyss.
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  Speaker 1: For sniffing all those doorways.
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  Speaker 2: Oh exactly.
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  Speaker 1: So we don't know exactly where old Crampis originates from,
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  Speaker 1: and we'll get to that in a second, but we
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  Speaker 1: do know a little bit of the etymology. The two
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  Speaker 1: big guesses are a German word and then a specific
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  Speaker 1: Bavarian term.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, the German word crumping' which means claw, or the
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  Speaker 2: Bavarian version, which would be crumping'. It's the spelled the same,
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  Speaker 2: it just doesn't have the E at the end because
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  Speaker 2: it's k r a m p n, which is a
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  Speaker 2: word that loosely translates to dead or rotten, which I wasn'
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  Speaker 2: familiar with.
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  Speaker 4: So yeah, it's essentially Saint Nick and his pal the
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  Speaker 4: rotten claw monster with his satchel and boy birch birch
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  Speaker 4: branch clawboy.
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  Speaker 2: That's good.
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  Speaker 4: Remember, it reminds me of of a night before Christmas.
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  Speaker 4: You know how the kids think he's named the Sandy Claus.
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  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I think that's a really good point.
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  Speaker 1: He's also like, because there is this ven diagram, isn't there,
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  Speaker 1: especially in Western culture, between the holiday Christmas and the
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  Speaker 1: idea of death right or the underworld, and and that's
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  Speaker 1: that's where Crampus comes into play. You'll you'll see folks
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  Speaker 1: arguing that he is the son of the Norse god
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  Speaker 1: of the underworld and that he only became as hell.
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  Speaker 4: By the way, it was kind of just right, and
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  Speaker 4: he became associated with Christmas retroactively.
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  Speaker 2: Uh.
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  Speaker 1: The Catholic Church was not happy about this for quite
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  Speaker 1: some time.
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  Speaker 4: No, they actually thought that he was kind of encroaching
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  Speaker 4: on their territory. They honest, you know, we know so
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  Speaker 4: many holidays that we know of or think of as being,
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  Speaker 4: you know, religion just in nature, like Easter for example,
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  Speaker 4: have payan roots.
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  Speaker 2: You know, and the Catholic Church does not care for that.
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  Speaker 4: They find that to be totally blasphemous, you know, and
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  Speaker 4: they want to do anything they can to get rid
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  Speaker 4: of those connections. So they did attempt to ban the
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  Speaker 4: creature entirely.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, just like covering up a couple other crimes.
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  Speaker 2: They failed.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, this feels like scary stuff for a kid, right,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, why does.
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  Speaker 2: Christmas Church of scary stuff for a kid? Right?
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  Speaker 1: Why does Christmas in Central Europe have such an edge
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  Speaker 1: to it? It goes back to what we're alluding to,
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  Speaker 1: religious syncretism. We've talked about this extensively on stuff they
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  Speaker 1: don't want you to know. It's the phenomenon through which
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  Speaker 1: different cultures, via accident or design, take previously distinct religious
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  Speaker 1: beliefs and just sort of squadch them together, squatches for
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  Speaker 1: rick and mortar fans, into something new, And sometimes it's
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  Speaker 1: adopting a new practice. In other cases it's because they
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  Speaker 1: couldn't like the Catholic Church totally erase previously existing beliefs.
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  Speaker 4: Or it's like the invention of black metal, you know,
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  Speaker 4: or like extreme types of music that you often find
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  Speaker 4: in this part of the world because of pretty brutal
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  Speaker 4: climates and you know, harsh conditions and also religious oppression,
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  Speaker 4: you know, and just the nature of those places, in
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  Speaker 4: the existence of all of these relics and these you know,
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  Speaker 4: old churches and just that kind of the remnants of
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  Speaker 4: this history, I think it really leads to a certain
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  Speaker 4: type of almost rebellion, you know.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's interesting.
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  Speaker 5: Also, I just want to kind of jump in here
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  Speaker 5: real quick just to note that I have a friend
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  Speaker 5: who name's Laura Cortesy and we've changed her name to Squatch.
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  Speaker 1: That's all great, well, congratulations Squatch fka Laura. Also, we
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  Speaker 1: have to point out this part of Europe right in general.
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  Speaker 1: Now it's regarded as solidly Christian, which it has been
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  Speaker 1: for thousands of years, but this was not always the case.
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  Speaker 1: Human spitation in Europe dates back far far before the
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  Speaker 1: arrival of Christian theology. So this is why experts will
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  Speaker 1: argue that crampus and things like crampis are vestiges of
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  Speaker 1: pre existing pagan pantheons, ideologies and rituals, all meant to
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  Speaker 1: commemorate the winter solstice. And you know you can go
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  Speaker 1: into detail with this, like in nineteen seventy five anthropologist
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  Speaker 1: John J. Honigbaden. How am I dealing with that nonik
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  Speaker 1: very well? Yeah, okay, this guy probably has the best
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  Speaker 1: summation of what happened and how Crampis got to Christianity.
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  Speaker 2: Indeed, this is what he says.
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  Speaker 4: The Saint Nicholas festival we are describing incorporates cultural elements
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  Speaker 4: widely distributed in Europe, in some cases going back to
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  Speaker 4: pre Christian times. Nicholas himself became popular in Germany around
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: the eleventh century. The feast dedicated to this patron of
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  Speaker 4: children is only one winter occasion which children are the
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  Speaker 4: objects of special attention, others being Marten Mass Class East
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  Speaker 4: of the Holy Innocence. And I'm sorry, this is a
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: really intense sounding feast and New Year's Day. Masked devils
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  Speaker 4: acting boisterously and making nuisances of themselves are known in
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  Speaker 4: Germany since at least the sixteenth century. While animal masked
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  Speaker 4: devils combining dreadful comic this is a German word for this.
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  Speaker 4: I guess it's sort of like tragic comedy. But I
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  Speaker 4: guess dreadful comedy is sort of like maybe a little
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  Speaker 4: bit tongue in cheek, a little bit gram gignon kind
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  Speaker 4: of stuff.
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  Speaker 2: In The German word for this is sharickx lustik. Well,
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  Speaker 2: I think lustik.
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  Speaker 4: Refers to laughing or comedy, I believe, and shush, yeah,
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  Speaker 4: shahrich is like yeah, fear or like, you know, being
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  Speaker 4: afraid of something.
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  Speaker 2: Let's see.
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  Speaker 4: So dreadful comic antics appeared in medieval church plays. A
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  Speaker 4: large literature, much of it by European folklorists, bears on
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  Speaker 4: the these subjects. Austrians in the community we studied are quite
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  Speaker 4: aware of Heathen quote unquote elements being blended with Christian
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  Speaker 4: elements in the Saint Nicholas customs and in other traditional
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  Speaker 4: winter ceremonies. They believe Carampus derives from a pagan supernatural
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  Speaker 4: who is assimilated to the Christian devil.
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  Speaker 1: And it's a.
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  Speaker 4: Long whote, but I think it's it spells it out
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  Speaker 4: beautifully because crampis in and of itself, is a branding play,
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  Speaker 4: you know what I mean. But like these types of
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  Speaker 4: deities and these types of mischievous spirits. And like he's
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  Speaker 4: to your point, Ben, and you found in the research
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  Speaker 4: this masking and you know, all of these these things
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  Speaker 4: are way back to you.
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  Speaker 2: Know, Greek and Roman times.
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  Speaker 4: You know, I mean the satyr again, Pan, all of
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  Speaker 4: these characters are kind of light demons.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: When Christians replace these pagan winter festivals with Christmas, the
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: way they did it is they said, oh, you were
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: already celebrating Christianity. You just didn't know what you were doing.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: It's a propaganda war. It's heart and minds. And so
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Crampis undergoes this rebranding, this transformation. He's associated with the devil.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: He is placed in this subservient position to Saint Nicholas
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: based on an apocryphal story about the guy battling the devil.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: And that's why Crampis wears chains to show that he
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: has been contained. And later these become bells because you know,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: he jures it up a little, want to keep it festive.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: And like we said, you've seen things similar folks, with
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Greco Roman mythology being subsumed by Christianity. Shout out to
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: one of the best short horror stories ever, The Great
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: God Pan and then you see it in Satyrs, you
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: see it in Poseidon. That's the reason why the devil
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: holds a trident in a lot of things. And in
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: the nineteen twenties, yeah, as you mentioned, the Catholic Church
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: and a couple of affiliates in policy try to ban Crampis.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: They made it illegal for this guy to show up
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: at Christmas or during the advent season. And fascinatingly enough,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: in World War Two, fascists did something similar. They thought
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Crampis was a quote creation of the social democrats. It
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: was a culture war, is what I'm saying.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Get rid of him.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: But then by the sixties, you know, it's interesting, like
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: how how relatively recently that is Crampis kind of made
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: a big old comeback in Germany and Austria. He was
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: once again allowed to come back, and he did so
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: in full force as sort of a I don't know,
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: it's sort of like a gimmicky kind of kitsch piece,
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: you know, folklore hottering kind of folklore and tradition, and
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: of course, understandably the public really dug it. On the
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: one hand, it was, you know, a way of connecting
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: with their history.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: But also it's like Halloween in December.
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: Man, it's so cool. They do these crampus crawls or
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: whatever they're called. We do them here in Atlanta, very
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: very popular events, and people dress up in the most
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: elaborate demonic you know, crampis garb and it's super fun
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: and creepy.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: And who doesn't love Halloween? Christmas is fine. Mash them together.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: You got yourself a fine holiday.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Right, And they're still never going to be as cool
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: as the most famous holiday, Arbor Day. Kidding, moving on,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: so next, got the double hoards for Arbor Day.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: I see trees are so metal, bro, they really are.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: I love the amazing amazing so uh jumping quick.
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: Have you guys seen the SNL sketch with Pete Davidson
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: and Chris Red where they rest the trees one of
• 21:42
  Speaker 5: the best sl sketches.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: It's really truly, truly good. I think trees are very metal.
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: They just they make me think of like something from
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: like a like a token book, Like they're just these
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: wizened creatures that just are somehow and like they know
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: more than you and they're not telling you.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Man, check out our earlier episode. Can plants communicate on
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: stuff they don't want? You to know, the answer is
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: mind blowing. And also, you know, this reminds me too
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: of Christmas markets, like when I've been to Christmas market,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: and yeah, in Europe, in various countries there's always still,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: especially now, there's always kind of a Crampian element. And
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: it's because, yeah, it's the thing. It's because people dig
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: this vibe. And you know, most of the folks, most
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: of the kids growing up, when you hear these stories
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: about old Saint Nick and Crampis, you're not gonna think
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: of the long fraud religious history leading to this. Instead,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: you're gonna see him as like, you know, part of
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: the thing, part of the KFC meal that you would
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: have where you in Japan and December. And there's a guy,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: James Deutsch, who is a Smithsonian folk Life curator, and
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: he portrays it as Crampis as a way for the authorities,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: the powers that be, to promote the idea of good behavior,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: of social morays, not violating taboos, not again peeping through windows,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: stealing milk or what was it, sniffing doorways.
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: Can't quite understand the benefit of that, one sees. It
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: also seems like a pretty victimless crime, you.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, I don't think there's ever.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Been sniff that would be much more egregious.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Who in the thirteen hundreds walked into their cottage and
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: stopped at the threshold and said, hang on, this doorway's
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: been sniffed.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Frankly, it's probably a good bit of reconnaissance.
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: You know, you sniff at someone's doorway, you could tell
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: if they're like cooking meth in there or something, you know,
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: huge missing, yeah, a whiff of natural gas.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: You know, it's a safety thing. Really.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: I also love that you're pointing out to the notes
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: about safety and the notes about celebration, which you mentioned earlier,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: the crampist crawls here in Atlanta. How do we go
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: about celebrating Crampis today?
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: Mainly devil worship type stuff, you know, sacrificing goats and uh,
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: what is it called? Walking witter shins around black mirror
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: at midnight, you know, writing sigils on the wall and
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: blood things like that, right.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, super chill hallmark stuff. Yeah, it's uh, it's
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: it's usually going to occur on December sixth, which is
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: known as cramp or Crampis.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Can you do it? Yeah? Knot?
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, knocked crampis note, uh, the the night of Crampis
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: and festivities involve exactly what you've been describing the Cramps run,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: which is the cramps loaf or Crampis.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Loaf louf is to run. That's right, l a U s. Yeah,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: it's funny.
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: I believe here we I do call it the Crampus crawl,
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: which presumably would be a little slower than the Crampus Run.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Well, I would imagine in these things, which you can
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: find throughout central Europe and now to your point in
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: the United States, you'll see people dressed up. They're doing cosplay,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: they're doing their own kind of very specific dragon con
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: or anime meet up, and they parade through the streets
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: and they try to scare civilians, try to scare bystanderds.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: More and more often they get in trouble because a
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: lot of these folks doing this are New Orleans style drunk.
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, have you heard of Santa Con? I have, yes, Yeah,
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: it just happened here the other day. And apparently that
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: involves getting really really wasted as well.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Great, that will always end up good.
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: Actually, if I remember correctly. In New York they said
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: one of the best things about the COVID nineteen pandemic.
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: Is Santa Con couldn't happen?
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: No, apparently in New York it's it's an absolute menace
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: whole friends of mine who've lived there say, it's like,
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: you don't want to go outside during Santa Con.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: I'm putting it on the list for a future episode.
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: It's a good idea. You will get puked on by
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: a large man in a red suit. But yeah, no,
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: it's it's really cool. And a lot of these drunken
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: people too, potentially are like wearing really elaborate costumes, like
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: sometimes on stilts, you know, to try to kind of
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: emulate the crooked like leg thing of the of the
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: goat like demon figure.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, here Atlanta, people take it really seriously.
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: Also, of course we're at home with Dragon Con, so
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of cosplay, you know, hardcore folks around here.
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: But in Gross on December first, the Crampus Run was
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: attended by more than thirty thousand people. And starting in
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: the late twentieth century, Crampus Run started to become super
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: popular in Germany and Austria and then it kind of
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: spread right, it spread especially you can see the inflow.
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: It's in pop culture. There's actually I was watching a
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: few YouTube videos it's about the history of Grampus earlier,
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: and there was one that listed off way more Crampus
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: movies than I was aware of.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: There's one called The Mother Crampis and.
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: It really looks like a really schlocky, you know, just
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: just slasher kind of gore fest. But the movie Crampus,
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: to me, is like a modern day Gremlins. I think
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: it's really cool. And Ben you pointed out another sort
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: of Crampus esque movie out of I want.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: To say, Norway watch it? Did you haven't seen him?
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: But putting in on my list for for Christmas viewing
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: along with Crampus, which I think really is a kind
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: of along with Home Alone and Gremlins. One is technically
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: a Christmas movie that's places during Christmas. It's really really good,
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: you know, back in the days of really good practical effects.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: If I'm not mistaken.
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: Crampis the movie largely uses practical effects except when there's
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: wide shots of him, like bounding over buildings, but it's
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: he's always in the shadows, which I think is the
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: best way to use CGI is when you don't like
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: show it too and that's always the best way to
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: kind of have a monster when you don't have to
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: look at it and get tired of it.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Hitchcock was right, you know, it's the monster off the screen.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Let people's imaginations do the special effect.
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: Even in Jaws, the fact that Shark wouldn't freaking work
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: ended up being a feature and not a bug because
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: it forced Spielberg to have to like be really creative
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: about how he shot it. And I think the Shark
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: is only on screen for like four minutes.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Similar to Hannibal Lecter in the Silence of the Labs,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: both of which clearly are based on the pre Christian
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: traditions that led to Crampis.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Think about it, yeah.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Question, don't think about it too much, but so okay,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: December sixth, the morning after Crampis Night is Saint Nicholas Day,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: And if you're a kid in places that celebrate this,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: this is the morning where you go outside of your door,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: whether that's your front door or the door to your bedroom,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: and you check your shoe or your boot that you
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: left out previously, and that's like you or that. That
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: is the moment where you get your grade for the year.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Did you get presents in your shoe or did you
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: get a rod?
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: What kind of rod are we talking here?
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Like they kind of would beat people with, like in
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: a shoe. I guess they just I guess as soon
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: as you open the door would.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Isn't the person who's gonna use the rod to beat crampis?
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I think it's like a horsehead and the bed thing
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: from Godfather.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: It's threat a portent of things to come, even though
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: I think that might be a little redundant.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: It's funny though.
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: We were talking off air about Bell Schnickel, which is
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: another sort of punitive Christmas imp I guess, And I
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: just remember in the scene in the office where Dwight
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: portrays Best Schnickel and he's all about whipping you with
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: reeds as well, but he goes, have you been impish
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: or admirable? And then like Jim's like you mean like
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: naughty or an ie? Like, no, this is Best Snickel,
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: nothing like said.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Right, right, and neither is Pierre Noel, neither is uh
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Sa Pete and the various things.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Santa has a lot of companions, and they're more edgy
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: than the Coca Cola company led us to believe when
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: they created the modern vision.
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: Of Santa Say, marketing sanitizes history Ben santaitizes.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so thank you, Max, thank you. I am going
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: to pretend those are two thumbs up. Thank you, sir,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: thank you. So here's the riverside. Emojis don't work for me.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: We don't have the right os for it.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Man, it worked for everybody else.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: So we got to note that in general, just to
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: be clear, the majority of the population is not concerned.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: You know, they don't think anybody's actually going to get
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: kidnapped or eaten or drowned in a river or sent
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: to the nether world. It's a fun tradition. And so
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: now we have to ask why why did crampis survive
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: ancient pre Christian days, transform into a controversial Christmas cameo,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: and then suddenly become super popular. Were Nola's not blowing
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: smoke here? There's a big crampus event every year in Atlanta, Georgia,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: and no one's like, well, here's what happened when Christianity
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: expanded into Central Europe. They're like, dude, check out my mask.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Bro oh, one hundred scent and a lot of these things.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: You know, of course, we're kind of created for very
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: utilitarian reasons, Like I would argue that the and I
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: think Max mentioned in the Yule Lads were created during
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: a time of mega scarcity, where like these things like
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: candles and you know, like this yogurt and these staples
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: of existence were incredibly precious and hard to come by,
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: and if you wasted them even a little bit, you
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: could legitimately be putting your family's life at risk. So
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: these these were like designed to you know, the crap
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: out of kids at the point where they would never
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: leave the candle burning too long, you know, yes, their ski.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: Right right, the taste of butter and so on. So
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: there is one, at least one milestone moment for Crampis
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: that expands this popularity. It's the eighteen nineties. The postcard
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: industry experiences a huge boom. Everybody is sending postcards the
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: way people were sending tweets back in what twenty ten
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: or something, and on the way like it started out
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: by sending a happy Holidays card, an old Saint nick card,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: you know, wishing you the best, hope you find some
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: oranges in your socc or whatever was the big deal
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: at the time. And then someone figured out they could
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: make holiday cards that were crampis oriented. There's a German
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: word for this.
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: This is a great rate where German is so good
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: at encompassing complex concepts and overly complex snapping words, just
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: washing it together. Oh yeah, I give give it, give
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: it a good squash. This one would be Crampus carton.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Edgy Christmas card. Yeah, edgy Christmas cards. It's the stuff
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: your cool aunt would send you.
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: Some of these were a little racing. They started to
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: depict Crampus as sort of a bit of a horny boy,
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: you know, with that long snakelike tongue and sometimes doing
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: some naughty stuff with ladies.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: And and that's putting aside the regular baseline of him
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: actively kidnapping and possibly eating children. Uh.
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: I think I saw one where he had a child skewered,
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: like the carcass of a child skewered on his pitchfork.
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: So these really did lean into These were almost more
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: kind of blue type car like you said, like your
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: cool aunt would have like sort of like nudy playing
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: cards or something like that.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Right, they're violating or they're interrogating social taboos, right, and
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: they're also popularizing this idea. So now, if you are
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: someone who is traveling the continent and you want to
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: send a car to someone who doesn't live in Central Europe.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: You're sending the coolest card you can find. All of
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: a sudden they know about Crampis. Crampis goes viral in
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: an analog way, and these cards are crazy to your point.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: You can look them up and you can see a
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: lot of really weird stuff, and part of the appeal
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: may also be psychological. Antonio carniiro spoke with National Geographic
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: about this, and he said, this is a way for
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: people to get in touch with their animalistic side. Look
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: at these dual personalities, right, you put on a mask,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: just like the Internet today. You put on a mask
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: and all the sudden, it's no longer you.
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it really is like Halloween at Christmas. Yeah,
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: well that sounds great to me. But now should we
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: get to the masks of it all?
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Do it? Because they are very particular and then very interesting?
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: So the mask are a seasonal industry in Central Europe.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Think about it this way. If you're in the United
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: States right before, right before Halloween, excuse me, you'll see
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: a bunch of disused department stores transform into spirit Halloween
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: stores and they become this seasonal cottage industry, or you
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: know how meet and greets with Santa pop up starting
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: in November. Great school kids still work on their own
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: homemade Crampis costumes, and I thought this was weirdly wholesome.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Some of those costumes, if they're good enough, they get
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: tucked away for the next year.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: I remember distinctly when I went to actual job in
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: kindergarten making a lot of paper mache masks. It's a
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: very popular thing, and I distinctly remember, Uh, that's the
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: first time I was exposed to the concept of paper mache.
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: And we would like you would build it around a
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: balloon and then you'd pop the balloon and then it
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: would give you this like shell, and then you could
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: cut the bottom out and then you could wear it
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: on your head. You'd make these almost then you cut
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: the eyes in the mouth out. Now that I'm thinking
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: about it, that is a very German kind of tradition.
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: You don't people don't do paper mache as much around here.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: It's so cool though. Papers is awesome, and that's awesome
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: that you were doing this as well. Do you uh,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: did you hold on to the mask after you've made it.
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: No, I didn't, but I do distinctly remember my kindergarten
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: teacher's name was Frau Neuhause, which means miss new House,
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: and I was. It was right before we moved to
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: the States, and I think I was going back a
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: few times and coming back and she really wanted me
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: to bring a bought a finger bass because they did
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: not have butterfinger bars in Germany at the time.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: And I believe I obliged that.
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: She actually reached out to me after my mom passed
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: out of nowhere on Instagram and it was the sweetest thing.
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: I hadn't thought about her in ages, and she reached
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: out saying that she had found out about that about
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: a year later.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: I love that moment.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good idea.
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: I think they probably have butter fingers over there now,
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: but at the time.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: It's sort of like now we get kinder, you know,
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: over here, but there was a time where we did
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: not get there. They're not the real kinder though they
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: so now that's not entirely true. The eggs, of course,
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: are different because choking hazards, right, But that's what I'm
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: be the ones with the white chocolate on the inside.
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: But you can get those as bar the bar versus.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I had the kinder bar, but it's they call
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: them kindred Joy now kinder Joy at Tot Toys. It's
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: more of a dipper than an egg. It is, it's
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: it is nothing the same, but it's gone global, just
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: like Crampis and Crampis like, why did this guy become
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: so pop popular? I'll be honest with you, A lot
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: of folks agree with this. It's capitalism. Oh yeah, commodification.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Capitalism loves a franchise, loves us spin off. There's a
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: reason there are so many Marvel movies, so many comic books,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: so many Pokemon. So Crampis is this pop culture phenomenon
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: for people who want to celebrate the Yuletide season in
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: non traditional ways. We talked about these Crampis parties and
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Crampus crawls in Atlanta, but things like this occur in Washington,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: d C. In New Orleans, in pretty much any American
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: city of a certain size.
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: At this point, one hundred percent, and it does appear
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: to be continuing to pay dividends because it's not like,
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: does it reached the level of saturation of say, Marvel
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: movies or Pokemon. You know, you have like one Crampis movie,
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: and I heard there's going to be a Crampus movie sequel.
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: But let's try to keep Crampus out of a full
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: cinemat universe. You know, it kind of sucks the joy
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: out of it a little bit, sort of cheapens it.
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: You know, I've got marble fatigue, my friends.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not Crampus if it's every day, right, it's
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: not Christmas if it's every day. I mean, but there's
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: a lot of merch and that merch still gets sold
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: year round, collectible horns, figurines, chocolates across any kind of
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Christmas market. I'm sure you can go We didn't check
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: this yet, but I'm sure you can go online to
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: your ebays or your amazons and find any number of
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Crampist related merchandise. And the question is if we are
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: commodifying this or cramp modifying Yeah, okay, all.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: Right, well, if we sail down, the man's the guy.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: But if we're doing that, to your point, are we
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: not turning this ancient relic of folklore into yet another kitchy,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: soulless sort of money grab. You know, when does the
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: crampest fatigue set in.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm hoping we can avoid.
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: I think Grabus is really cool and uh, I've only
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: seen the Crams movie a couple of times, and I
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: am very excited to officially add it to my holiday
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: viewing list.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: I'm also so excited to hear what you guys think
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: about rare exports.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: I know very little about it, which I'm excited about.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil it's so weird, dude. H.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: We also, uh, we also want to give a moment
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: of honor to Santa's other companions. Turns out Old Saint
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Nick globally is a lot less like a single act
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: and a lot more like the Wu Tang clan. He's
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: got companions all around Europe.
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And we talked a little bit about Shavata pet
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: Shavata Peta in the Netherlands, who is sort of a
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: sidekick of I think I think bell Snickel maybe like
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: I think that's right. Results vary, but he is sort
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: of a court jesterly fellow, but often in full blackface, right.
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: And I think we talked about this not terribly long ago.
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: Maybe it was a year ago around Christmas, but I
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: think that some places in Europe have sort of started
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: to distance themselves from.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: The whole Schwarza peint thing. But it used to be
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: as common as can.
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: Be to see, you know, very airy and European types
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: dressed up in this motley, you know, with the full
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: blackface on.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Kind of like Bell Shickle, which you mentioned earlier. You know,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: he has a face smeared with charcoal and we're talking
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: off air and I asked, you, guys, how much charcoal
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: can someone smear like that before it's officially blackface.
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: Well that's a good point. I believe Swartza pat is
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: meant to be covered in soot.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: I believe, yeah, it was.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: It was very much more a coal based, chimney based
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: economy at the time. There's also Servant Rupert in German folklore,
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Paranoel Father Christmas in French folklore. It goes on and on,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: and you guys, honestly, Crampus is the coolest. We hope
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: everybody is having a great holiday. We hope that we
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: hope that you enjoy this deeper lore of Christmas. Check out,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: as you said, Noel, check out our Your Lads episode.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Check out the origins of Christmas on stuff they don't
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: want you to know, and we wanted to make good
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: on something we mentioned in a previous episode. Oh yeah,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: we talked. We talked Noel and Max and Alex sirkeez
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: here too. We talked about maybe reading a couple of reviews.
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and hopefully this will entice the rest of
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: you to leave, leave some some nice ones. Apparently some
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: people think we're like the woke police or something out there.
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: Let's let's push all those down the queue, because we
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: make no apologies for being human beings with a perspective,
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: and I don't think we're overtly political or anything.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: But it's just crazy how triggered some people get just
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: by like people.
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: Having opinions and being human. I mean, that's just how
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: it is. But yeah, please Ben, I would love to
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: maybe read one apiece.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, here, why don't you? This is one of
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: my This one we found that I thought was nice.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: And we're keeping these both very short. But why you
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: do the first one?
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: Then this one comes from doctor say, they say, great show,
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: recommended four stars.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Where's the fifth star? Doctor say? What did we do
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: to hurt you?
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: I really enjoy the style interwoven with the topics are
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: asides quasi related banter. We specialize in and tangents that
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: add color to the conversation, where nothing if not colorful.
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: Thanks doctor Say, and we.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Have one from Squeak eight seven four to oh one
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: informative and lighthearted five stars.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Thank you Squeak.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: I have been listening for a long time. I enjoy
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: history and enjoy information with a light hearted banter.
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, if you want to leave a pleasant review
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: on iTunes or podbey or whatever, please do. We might
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: share a few more of these moving forward. If you
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: want to have your name and comment right on the show,
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: that's a surefire way to do it.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Big big thanks to our super producer, mister Max Williams.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Big big thanks to our returning guest Alex the Circumstance
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Circa Alex, howd we do? Did we convert you to Crampus?
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: I think I got to check out that movie that
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: you mentioned.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: I might have to watch that later tonight.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Get the spirits excited to see it as well.
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: Huge thanks to Jonathan Strickland, the Quist sort of a
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: Crampis type fellow, a little more of a Bellsnickel. I
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: would say, oh, shots fired, Yeah, and I once saw
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: him get his wigs snatched off and he put it
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: on backwards too. There was a reference to the previous episode.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: We're doing callbacks, guys. Big big thanks to Alex Williams,
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: who composed this track. Big thanks to Eves Jeffcoat. Christopher
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: hasiotis here in spirit. I am a research associate for
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: this episode. We can't wait to explore more ridiculous history
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: with you, folks. We've got gosh no, We've got a
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: lot of things on the docket that I think are
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Every time I read like our secret
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: treasure troph of stuff we're working on, I get so excited.
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: I'm excited to start digging in on some of them myself.
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: It's going to be a fun new year. We'll see
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: your favorite shows.