Latest / Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan / Is Your Company Culture Silently Toxic? | Mistakes You’re Making & How To Fix Them (Sarah Mitial)

Transcript

Is Your Company Culture Silently Toxic? | Mistakes You’re Making & How To Fix Them (Sarah Mitial) · Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan

• 0:00
  Well, Sarah, founder of People Architecture Group, Welcome to
• 0:02
  the Founder Talk podcast. Thank you for having me, good to
• 0:06
  be here. Cheers, excited to have this
• 0:08
  conversation. I appreciate you coming down.
• 0:10
  How would you just for the the listeners and the founders,
• 0:13
  entrepreneurs, people that watch this show, how would you
• 0:15
  describe what you do in a sentence or two?
• 0:18
  You know, at People Architectural Group, every day,
• 0:23
  all day we have leaders and taller, we help them move
• 0:27
  barriers so they can live, lead with confidence.
• 0:31
  So I love doing that, have done it at organizations and for the
• 0:37
  last six years we've been doing it through People Architectural
• 0:40
  Group. I saw on your LinkedIn tagline
• 0:41
  it said helping small mid sized businesses improve retention by
• 0:46
  30% and accelerate growth in just six months with strategic
• 0:50
  HR solutions. Bad retention is usually bad, is
• 0:54
  usually blamed on bad leadership or bad management.
• 0:58
  Is is that still the case today or is it something different?
• 1:01
  Well, I hate to say that it's it's almost like people can't
• 1:06
  teach what they don't know. So instead of saying it's not
• 1:12
  bad leadership, the leaders that came before that individual, how
• 1:16
  did they train them? How did they show them how to
• 1:19
  build trust with the team? How did they show them how to
• 1:25
  think of the well-being of the employee?
• 1:27
  So you have to be a people first person to be able to identify
• 1:33
  certain things. So all of these things help
• 1:37
  retention. We don't even think it's if I,
• 1:38
  if I trust you, you know, if we work together, we are trusted.
• 1:44
  You can tell me where your weaknesses are and I can help
• 1:46
  you move those barriers. But if I'm afraid of losing my
• 1:49
  job and I'm afraid of, but you know, certain things, then I can
• 1:55
  do my best work and it shows with the retention, the
• 1:58
  engagement and so on. So when you come into a company,
• 2:01
  what are you looking at? Are you looking at, you know,
• 2:03
  retention culture issues, hiring, like what, what types of
• 2:07
  how do you look at it from kind of a holistic big picture?
• 2:09
  And then we'll start breaking these down.
• 2:11
  So when I start working with an organization, I would look at
• 2:17
  the people and I look at the culture.
• 2:21
  Because if you look at the people, you look at the culture,
• 2:23
  it will tell you what the processes are and so you can see
• 2:27
  the gap within the process. So I want to see what not what's
• 2:31
  on paper, but how do you treat your people.
• 2:34
  I want to see it. I'm seeing it when I do my
• 2:37
  assessment. I don't just look at your
• 2:39
  policies. And so, and I want to, I want
• 2:41
  you to tell me who do I talk to and not just the leadership, I
• 2:44
  want to the people who actually doing the work, I want to know
• 2:48
  how do they feel about their leaders?
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  How do they feel about the support they get and all of the
• 2:53
  scoping and at all level of the organization?
• 2:56
  There's a story to be told, and that story will show up whether
• 3:01
  you tell me or not. If I'm there long enough, you
• 3:04
  will see it. So.
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  I feel like culture is one of those words that everyone
• 3:08
  recognizes as something good, and you need a good culture,
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  otherwise people are going to leave or people are not going to
• 3:13
  want to join your company, or you're not going to have the
• 3:15
  performance you want. But how do you know if you have
• 3:18
  a good culture in your company? When you know your people, you
• 3:23
  can help build a culture based on what your people need.
• 3:27
  Because Alex, what my organization need, even though
• 3:32
  we have this, maybe it's the same title, but it looks
• 3:35
  differently. That's where the customization
• 3:37
  is the benefit. You provide benefit for your
• 3:40
  organization. I provide benefit, but who works
• 3:43
  for me? You know, like yesterday I had,
• 3:45
  I was with a client and somebody said, do you have paternity
• 3:50
  leave? What's the policy?
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  Well, there's nobody in the organization that is around that
• 3:58
  age. Everybody is a different bracket
• 4:01
  that paternity leave if Ioffer that they don't care about that.
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  So what benefit are you providing?
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  What are the policies that you are you have for your employee,
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  all of that impact the culture that you are in, how you
• 4:15
  treating them, how you training them, access to training and so
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  on and so forth? But how do you know if you're
• 4:20
  coming into a country or a country?
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  If you're coming into a company, I guess you could do it for a
• 4:24
  country too. You could argue you get a lot to
• 4:26
  work on with our country culture right now.
• 4:29
  Let's not go there. But I think if you were coming
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  into a company, how would you dissect if the culture is
• 4:37
  healthy or not? I mean, everyone's a little bit
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  different, of course, but how do you start telling that?
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  Because you know, a leader might be totally blind to that.
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  There might be an entrepreneur listening to this right now that
• 4:44
  thinks they have a great culture and in reality, it sucks.
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  How do you kind of know? Well, I think a lot of a lot of
• 4:52
  organization do what we call an employee survey.
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  It's anonymous people telling you what they want, what they
• 4:59
  need, how things are. And a lot of time when we read
• 5:03
  those call those, those results, it tells us where we are.
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  These are the data that kind of help us understand when you read
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  what your exit interviews and how people feel about their
• 5:16
  manager, how people feel about the benefits.
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  And so it's telling you the health of your culture.
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  This is part of that MRI, right? When you read stay, if you do
• 5:27
  stay interview and they are telling you so it's not me.
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  I I can try to get all that data together for you.
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  But your people are telling you if it's a good culture.
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  I feel when you hear an employee says I need help but I can't go
• 5:43
  to my manager for help because of retaliation.
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  Well I don't need to tell you this is a this could be a toxic
• 5:50
  culture. You already hear it in in there.
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  Or they tell you I have benefits, but I don't know how
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  to use it. I don't know if I have
• 6:02
  questions. I don't know who to go to.
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  What is that telling you? So listen to your people and it
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  will tell you what kind of culture you have.
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  Is it? Or you go to an organization
• 6:14
  that says, you know what, I am provided with coaching.
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  I am provided with, you know, if I want to learn, I'm learn.
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  I'm going to Sherm as an HR person, My my manager encouraged
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  me to grow, to go out there to network.
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  Well, does that do I have to tell you what kind of culture
• 6:32
  that is? Yeah.
• 6:33
  So you have to listen. Your ears are there for a reason
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  and as a leader, you need to listen to your people.
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  If you're not doing team meetings, then it's very hard
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  for you to know how your people feel about what they are doing.
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  If you see mistake over and over again and you wait till the end
• 6:49
  of the year to do an employee to do a review instead of giving
• 6:53
  them feedback on a regular basis, that tells you what kind
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  of culture you are in. So yes, as a consultant, you can
• 7:00
  pay me to tell you to listen to your people.
• 7:02
  I'm happy to do that. But some of you out there, you
• 7:06
  can do it yourself to part of what we do.
• 7:10
  Yeah, it's kind of like a a good business when you're talking
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  about your product or services, you how do you know if it's
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  good? You got to talk to the
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  customers, you got to talk to the people that you're servicing
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  and and serving and that's it, right.
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  What what would you say to ACEO or a business owner that says
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  we've tried to do the surveys before Sarah and no one really
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  gave us anything or people were kind of shy to put stuff on.
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  Maybe they're a 510 person company.
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  Like I know if you know Rodgers filling this out, he knows that
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  if he puts this, this and this, they're going to know it's
• 7:35
  Rodgers. So it's not really anonymous.
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  Are there any other approaches to getting people to kind of
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  open up? So I think that's where it
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  starts, right? You got to get people to open
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  up. What employees are very smart?
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  We are all very smart people who work with an organization.
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  When I give you a feedback, what do you do with that feedback?
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  If you are sitting there, instead of saying, Oh my
• 7:57
  goodness, somebody, there's a problem.
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  And instead of you sitting and say, how do I help solve this?
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  Instead you sitting here trying to process illumination.
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  It must be Alex. No, that's Sarah.
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  That's the way she writes since, well, of course they're not
• 8:14
  going to come and tell you how they feel.
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  So if people are not being honest, it's because you've
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  asked them for their feedback and you did not do anything with
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  it. And I understand for smaller
• 8:27
  organization, you may not be able to do something right away,
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  but there may be some low hanging fruit you can focus on.
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  Then that's what you do. And there may be time when you
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  can't focus on because of other priorities.
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  You can tell people, guys, I hear you.
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  I can't do it right now, but I want you to know this isn't my
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  top priority. That's if it is your top
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  priority. Do make sure you communicate
• 8:56
  where you are because I mean, as a owner of a small business,
• 9:00
  people working for me, there are certain things I want to do.
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  I can't do it yet, but the people, when people know that
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  you have their best interests in mind and you actually have their
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  best interests in mind, you can. There are certain things that
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  will wait, but there is no excuse for toxic environment.
• 9:19
  Right. And I think some people just
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  want to know that they're heard, right?
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  They just want to know that. Yeah, I heard your request.
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  Appreciate it. It's on our list.
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  I can't get to it in the next 30 days, but I do want you to know
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  it's something I'm thinking about and something I will put
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  some focus on. That cost you nothing right
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  there. But people hear you because they
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  know that you want them to succeed.
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  You want them to be part of your organization.
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  And the success of the organization is not just for
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  you, but it's also for them. And so if you make them part of
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  what you'd be building instead of them being outside and you,
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  then yes, you not going to get the best of them.
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  And because they feel like they're not getting the best of
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  you. A lot of people listening are
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  probably have team meetings, whether it's three people, five
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  people, 20-30, a 100,000 people. What are some advice to leaders
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  running meetings? That they want to get their
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  people to open up and talk more and participate, not be scared
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  to say something that maybe is wrong and make a mistake and
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  fall flat on their face. They just wanted to create an
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  open. Everyone can share.
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  Hey, if you make a mistake, awesome, we'll celebrate it,
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  we'll learn from it, we'll move on.
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  How do you create that type of environment as a leader?
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  To create that a leader needs to understand when to talk and when
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  to shut up. And you may have the best
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  intention, but if you are if you are someone that's constantly
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  talking, then you'll other people who don't have time to
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  talk and so sometime you just have to be able to say it.
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  The silent made you after you make a point, the silent at the
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  beginning. It's very hard if you are
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  someone who can't handle silence, you know the the
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  downtime, but sometimes you have to sit there for 30 seconds and
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  just wait. You ask a question, just wait.
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  And it's awkward sometimes. For people, it's very awkward.
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  It's very awkward, but you have to wait because people have to
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  process it. When you ask a question, you've
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  thought about the question. How?
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  How long have you thought about the question?
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  And you also have some potential solution in your head, but that
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  person you're talking to just heard it.
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  They need to have time to process map what you just said
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  to what they know what they are doing.
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  So it's OK for that silent for 30 seconds and it's OK if the
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  silent to say, you know what, we're going to come back to this
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  guys. I want you to really think
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  through this because I need your opinion and if you make a
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  decision as a team, please don't go back to your office and
• 12:03
  change it because the team just if you're going to change, you
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  need to get their feedback. You need to get there by and or
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  let them know why you thought this would go.
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  But when you look at the resources, blah, blah, blah, it
• 12:16
  can't go. But these are some solutions
• 12:19
  that you can do. What do they think?
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  Because you started as a team, you need to somehow get that buy
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  in as well. Yeah, yeah.
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  I've definitely learned in my experience that if the leader
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  gives the idea first or speaks first on what they think is the
• 12:37
  right path, everyone else just kind of goes, yeah, I agree.
• 12:40
  Sounds great. And sometimes it's.
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  Not and it's bullshit, but it's like, of course they're not
• 12:45
  going to really speak up because you already laid it out.
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  And sometimes they are that person has the most experience
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  and sometimes it's not a bad idea.
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  But maybe there was another approach they could have taken,
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  but they never got there because they were like, well, I'm not
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  going to say something now. It's going to sound stupid
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  compared to that, right? So you do got to sit there and
• 13:00
  sometimes it is awkward and you got to ask tough questions and
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  let people just sit back and just do that.
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  Yep, and sometimes leaders have somebody above them too.
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  So when you are not able to make that final decision and you are
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  making a team decision, you need to make sure you let the team
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  know, Hey, I'm going to take it to Alex and I'm get his, you
• 13:21
  know, get his buy in and then I'll let you guys know if it's a
• 13:24
  go. But if you said it's a go, then
• 13:27
  and then your boss shut it down, You are messing up with your
• 13:31
  team's trust in you. So, and it's OK if you have to
• 13:35
  get permission and you need to find you need to talk to
• 13:38
  finance, you need to talk to whoever you need to talk to you.
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  But make sure that when you say it's final, it's final.
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  And if the plan change, you come back to the team because it's
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  easy to have trust at first, it's harder to rebuild trust,
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  but it's can be done. And how do you build trust with
• 14:02
  someone because you know, whether you're trying to to sell
• 14:05
  something or whether you're trying to build trust with your
• 14:07
  team, everyone you know, trust is really a key relationships.
• 14:10
  It really is a cornerstone of most things we do.
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  In your in your words, how would you say you build trust
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  effectively? Be your authentic self.
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  Do what you say you're going to do when you say you're going to
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  do it. And if you can't do it,
• 14:26
  communicate it. Communication is like that glue
• 14:30
  of just letting people know I am who I say I am.
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  Especially with my team. I want to be there with them and
• 14:39
  I'm not going to tell you go left and then you really should
• 14:42
  have gotten right, right. So again, people know when you
• 14:49
  want them to succeed. They would know when this is all
• 14:56
  about us. It's not we.
• 14:59
  And please, leaders, don't take people's credit when it's a team
• 15:03
  effort. It's a team effort.
• 15:05
  Yeah, that's a fast way to lose trust, right?
• 15:08
  Yes, I, I, I, I I did this. No dude, it's we.
• 15:14
  We. Did it, We did it or you did it.
• 15:16
  Yeah, the leaders are. Supposed to not take the credit
• 15:19
  when the credit is is you know. Due.
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  Oh my. Gosh, and then take the
• 15:22
  ownership and the responsibility when it's when it comes to the
• 15:26
  doorstep and some leaders, it's the leaders.
• 15:28
  It's the opposite. They take all the credit and
• 15:30
  then when there's something bad happens, they blame someone
• 15:32
  else. Sarah breaking the podcast.
• 15:35
  Rules here rule. One O 1 silence the phone.
• 15:42
  The other thing we should always do is they always tell you you
• 15:50
  can build trust by when you know your name is being listed in a
• 15:57
  room when you're not even there, You know, I don't have a problem
• 16:01
  telling people that you know what?
• 16:03
  This person did this, you know, we had a we had a team meeting
• 16:09
  and this person did US. You give credit where, like you
• 16:12
  said, give credit where credit is there.
• 16:13
  So I think that's a way of building trust.
• 16:16
  That's a very easy way to build trust.
• 16:17
  Yeah. So.
• 16:19
  I heard the other day it was just like a clip I saw and
• 16:21
  someone saying the fastest way to build trust is to give
• 16:23
  someone a compliment and is to relate with something to to them
• 16:27
  like have something relatable. How do you feel about that?
• 16:29
  I'm curious. They said you need.
• 16:33
  To know you really need to know your people, because what
• 16:37
  matters to you may not matters to me, right?
• 16:42
  I don't care about somebody's compliment.
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  Me too. That doesn't.
• 16:46
  Yeah, sometimes most. Of the time.
• 16:48
  It's not even genuine anyways, it's like I.
• 16:49
  Don't care about your compliment.
• 16:51
  You know different stage in people's life when you know your
• 16:54
  who your employees are, what matters to them.
• 16:57
  That's why that communication is very important to know where
• 17:00
  they are going. There are some employees where
• 17:03
  they are, the season of life that they are in benefits is
• 17:06
  what's important to them. That extra, you know, they don't
• 17:10
  care or they may not care about that money, but they want that
• 17:12
  time, you know, with their family or whatever or that they
• 17:17
  are looking to be promoted and giving them that extra project
• 17:21
  to be to get some exposure. That's what's important to them.
• 17:25
  So give somebody a compliment. If it's not something that's
• 17:30
  important to them, it doesn't mean anything.
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  Give them money and money is not what's important to them.
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  It doesn't mean anything. So you need to really know who's
• 17:38
  working for you and what's important to them.
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  And you won't know until you ask them.
• 17:43
  Have to understand what's important to you.
• 17:45
  I agree. I'm I'm not a fan of like the
• 17:47
  surface level and I think in the context like I was talking about
• 17:50
  how to build trust fast with like a new prospect or something
• 17:53
  that comes to your door. Maybe that works, but I'm along,
• 17:56
  I'm along the lines what you think, which is you have to come
• 18:01
  through on the things that you say you're going to do.
• 18:03
  That's numeral Uno. Like if you don't come through,
• 18:05
  you lose trust instantly. That's why people don't trust
• 18:08
  themselves sometimes because like, well, last time I didn't
• 18:10
  do this one, I should have. So just like yourself, you have
• 18:12
  to put trust in yourself, say you're going to do something,
• 18:15
  follow through. And I think the other thing is
• 18:17
  kind of what you're alluding to, which is the genuine care of
• 18:19
  like listening to people, really listening to hear them not to
• 18:22
  say what's next or, you know, caring about where they want to
• 18:25
  go and their goals and their interest.
• 18:27
  And that's, so I don't know, I it's not very common in terms of
• 18:32
  when you whether you're dating or whether it's a business
• 18:34
  relationship or whether it's whatever it might be in a
• 18:36
  company. It was rare for me to experience
• 18:39
  and still to experience someone. I just experienced this the
• 18:42
  other day actually on a lunch. Shout out to Christoph.
• 18:45
  He's been on the podcast. Hopefully he's watching and
• 18:47
  listening to this right now. But I was just blown away by him
• 18:50
  because we go to we go to brunch.
• 18:51
  She asked me out to lunch. He's been on the show before.
• 18:53
  We're just like talking and shooting the shit, getting to
• 18:55
  know each other more, talking about business life, whatever,
• 18:58
  seeing how we can help each other.
• 18:59
  And he just like is so locked in.
• 19:02
  And he just kind of leaned in. He's like, Hey, tell me about
• 19:04
  you, What's going on with you? And he was just like listening.
• 19:06
  I was like, oh, this. And I was like, all right, I'm
• 19:08
  kind of done. I was like, I want to talk about
• 19:09
  you, not just me. And I felt like uncomfortable
• 19:11
  after a while. I was like, that's enough about
• 19:12
  me. He was like, so I was like, So
• 19:14
  what about you? Like, how'd this go for you?
• 19:15
  And he was like, no, no, no, tell me more.
• 19:17
  He's like, how how's the business?
• 19:19
  Really? Like what's going on here?
• 19:20
  Last time we talked, you mentioned this.
• 19:22
  Isn't this what's going on with that?
• 19:24
  And I was, and you could tell you it wasn't like bullshit.
• 19:26
  It wasn't like, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm your boss.
• 19:29
  So I should ask like, how was your weekend?
• 19:31
  You know, it's just like, feels very like, how was your weekend?
• 19:33
  Good. How was yours?
• 19:33
  Good. And it's just like, what did you
• 19:35
  do? Oh, we hang out there.
• 19:36
  OK, cool. What did you do?
• 19:37
  We did this and this. I feel so surface level.
• 19:39
  The conversation is so service level.
• 19:41
  He was locked in. He was like, really wanting to
• 19:43
  know, followed up, got deep. But you know what, Matt?
• 19:48
  What you said, that's very important.
• 19:51
  He's been on your show a few time.
• 19:53
  You guys probably have had some conversation.
• 19:56
  He heard you before. Now he's generally committed to
• 20:01
  what you said. Imagine you first met someone
• 20:04
  and then they trying to go that deep with you.
• 20:07
  You probably, you probably wouldn't open up because this is
• 20:12
  that's your business. This is the first time I'm
• 20:14
  talking to you. Let's stay on the surface sea
• 20:16
  level. I would, but that's just me.
• 20:17
  I'm me too cool with going there day one, you know what I mean,
• 20:20
  but not not not like your private stuff that you correct,
• 20:23
  but I'm cool going deep like anytime, you know.
• 20:26
  Yeah. But I think even if you are
• 20:28
  open, but it's not genuine to me, I would say it's not
• 20:32
  genuine. So it doesn't matter if it's a
• 20:35
  client or your employees. You need to understand what the
• 20:40
  relationship is. A relationship.
• 20:43
  You know, I'm not going to meet in a relationship the first time
• 20:47
  we meet, you start talking about children, then you won't out.
• 20:51
  There won't be a second date. You know, I'm running, you know,
• 20:54
  so the same thing too, when when you start, when you have an
• 20:59
  employee, just make sure you understand, Hey, I'm getting to
• 21:03
  know you. I want to know who you are, what
• 21:07
  you what do you see yourself in five years?
• 21:09
  This is to me that's genuine in an interview or when somebody
• 21:13
  first. Now when you start telling me
• 21:16
  about who you are, you work with me and I see where you are.
• 21:19
  I can say I want to help you get to the next level in six to six
• 21:24
  months to a year. That's genuine because I have
• 21:28
  proven myself for a while and now the relationship is
• 21:31
  evolving. I am engaging with you and I
• 21:34
  want to see, genuinely want to see you be promoted.
• 21:39
  So you need to know where you are, who you are, when you can
• 21:43
  ask certain questions and that as a leader, this is something
• 21:49
  that I think a lot of us have to work with.
• 21:51
  And when you said you're going to help somebody do it?
• 21:55
  Yeah, it goes back to the follow through thing, right?
• 21:58
  Back to the follow through thing.
• 21:59
  Why do you think so many leaders struggle with that, with, you
• 22:02
  know what seems obvious, what we're saying now, you can nod
• 22:04
  your head and go, yeah, care about your people, ask about
• 22:06
  their goals, follow through, listen.
• 22:08
  But it just it doesn't seem very common.
• 22:12
  Sometimes I don't think it's very common.
• 22:14
  I think sometimes we don't have a process.
• 22:18
  We, we may want to do it, but we don't have the tools to do it.
• 22:24
  We don't have the support to do it.
• 22:25
  We don't have the budget to do it.
• 22:27
  So then you need to do it at the level where you are.
• 22:30
  So maybe the development to begin with.
• 22:32
  All I can do is send you to webinars, encouraging you to go
• 22:35
  to webinars, encourage you to, if it's available, the LinkedIn
• 22:39
  learning, you know, I can encourage you to do that.
• 22:43
  If that's all I can afford, that's what I'm going to do.
• 22:45
  But I'm not going to tell you I'm going to send you a a week
• 22:48
  conference when I know I don't have the budget for it, you
• 22:50
  know, So if you you can make the time to meet with someone to
• 22:57
  talk to them and help them develop it within their role, if
• 23:00
  that's what you can afford, do it.
• 23:02
  Again, do what you said you're going to do and stay within the
• 23:05
  limit of what you can do. And so again, that's building
• 23:09
  trust that there are a lot of great webinars out there.
• 23:13
  I am one of the organization that provide phenomenal webinars
• 23:16
  every month to HR and business owners.
• 23:20
  Doesn't cost anything, but it's a community of people coming
• 23:23
  together. HR person who doesn't have a
• 23:26
  budget, you should be connected to an organization like myself
• 23:29
  will provide those kind of learning because we are we are
• 23:33
  talking to clients I'm with I'm at multiple clients every week.
• 23:38
  Seeing what they are doing and the issues that HR are facing is
• 23:42
  the same at every organization, maybe at different levels.
• 23:45
  We are seeing a different facet of the same problem, but it's
• 23:48
  the same thing. So we can learn from each other.
• 23:51
  So again, do what you say you're going to do and do it at the
• 23:56
  level of what you can provide. Now, do you see any differences
• 24:00
  between you got Gen. Z millennials, Gen.
• 24:03
  X Boomers, how you lead that group of people, how you lead
• 24:07
  the different generations? Is there a difference?
• 24:10
  Should we be approaching different, you know, generations
• 24:13
  and on different levels or different ways or strategies or
• 24:17
  is it all basically the same? Certain things are the same,
• 24:21
  certain things are different. What me at my age now is the
• 24:28
  things that are important to me at 1, it's totally different
• 24:31
  than somebody who's just emerging, just entering the
• 24:34
  workforce again. It goes back with whatever your
• 24:39
  the makeup of your organization is, you have to know your
• 24:43
  people. This is I'm going to keep saying
• 24:44
  the same thing. You have to go to your people
• 24:47
  and figure out what's important to them at what the level of
• 24:52
  where they are. And so that will drive benefit.
• 24:57
  The benefit you provide depends on who's in your workforce.
• 25:01
  It will drive the learning that you provide, the training and
• 25:05
  development you provide. It will drive the compensation
• 25:09
  that you provide you. You know how your your
• 25:12
  compensation is structured. It will drive engagement,
• 25:17
  everything that you again, it goes back to who is my audience,
• 25:21
  right? That's what we thought.
• 25:22
  Who are your audience? You need to niche your benefit
• 25:25
  to whoever it is and you may have a variation of it because
• 25:29
  that's what your organization looks like.
• 25:32
  So know who you are, plan for those people, then they will be
• 25:37
  engaged. Because if you provide me what
• 25:40
  you know, some people, it's like what's important to them is, you
• 25:47
  know, the flexibility when I was when I had younger kids, that's
• 25:53
  flexibility. I will not go come drive as far
• 25:57
  as I drive to come here. I wouldn't do that because I
• 26:00
  need, I could be called any minute, you know, so I maybe I
• 26:04
  wouldn't do that closer to end of school, but now I can't, you
• 26:09
  know. So again, it's where do you,
• 26:11
  where are you and what season your employees are and that will
• 26:15
  drive the benefit and the the things that you provide for
• 26:19
  them. That's people centered HR.
• 26:21
  You have to think about your people, how the experience that
• 26:25
  they are having, how are they growing?
• 26:27
  You have to think about what's next for them.
• 26:31
  And how do you balance? I think this is sometimes a
• 26:32
  tricky balance for leaders and CE OS, anybody that has a team
• 26:37
  genuinely caring about them and making sure you're helping them
• 26:40
  get to where they want to go. I don't want to say being liked
• 26:43
  because I think that's a trap. But the other side is sometimes
• 26:46
  you do need to hold people accountable and you do have to
• 26:49
  be a little bit tough on them and you have to show that tough
• 26:51
  love. How do you how do you see those
• 26:53
  two? I think some people are either
• 26:55
  one or the other or they have a tough time like doing both.
• 26:59
  When I train leaders, I always, one of the first thing that I do
• 27:03
  in the cohort of training that we provide is that when you give
• 27:07
  in constructive feedback, you need to learn to attack the work
• 27:11
  and not the person. And you can be as tough as you
• 27:15
  can with the work, constructive criticism on the work that they
• 27:19
  do, but be very careful not to attack the person because that
• 27:24
  person needs to go home and take care of those kids.
• 27:27
  They need to take care of their family.
• 27:29
  And so, and I think sometime leaders mix it too.
• 27:34
  You start talking about you, you, you, you know, attacking
• 27:38
  you and it just kind of, you know, just kind of killed a
• 27:42
  person and you start seeing that.
• 27:44
  It's like when you attack me, then that's when I come out and
• 27:48
  you don't want. To get defensive and stuff like.
• 27:50
  That very defensive, but if you attack the work and you could
• 27:52
  say you know what it's and no matter what work you do very,
• 27:57
  very seldomly with the whole work will be bad.
• 27:59
  That may be a section that's bad, you know, but.
• 28:03
  Hopefully it's not the entire thing.
• 28:05
  Yeah, yeah. And Speaking of that, I mean,
• 28:10
  how do you know when it's time to fire somebody or when it's
• 28:13
  time to just coach them a little bit more?
• 28:18
  So I believe in continuous feedback.
• 28:24
  When you hire someone, you hire them to perform a specific work.
• 28:30
  And so again, that goes to you are you are giving people
• 28:36
  feedback on the work, right? If it's possible that a great
• 28:41
  person just doesn't have the personality or the skills to do
• 28:44
  what you need them to do, then you have to make sure that
• 28:48
  you're looking at the organization overall.
• 28:51
  And if I'm continuous, if the work is not meeting the
• 28:55
  expectation, then that's when you you've done coaching and you
• 28:59
  see that you had a point where it's not going to work.
• 29:02
  Then that's when with respect, the same respect that people
• 29:06
  come into the organization, they need to leave with that same
• 29:09
  respect. And so I've never done a
• 29:14
  termination that I felt 100%, you know, like I'm like, who
• 29:18
  this president because I'm thinking about sometime I'm
• 29:21
  like, Oh my God, that person, that family that's not going to
• 29:24
  have that extra income. And So what?
• 29:26
  But I understand that for the organization, they say we need
• 29:31
  to get the right person in here because if you don't do that,
• 29:35
  you have to think about everybody else that's in the
• 29:38
  team, how this low performance is impacting their work.
• 29:42
  You know, how it pulling them down South.
• 29:45
  That's why, yes, we have to part ways, but you do it with respect
• 29:50
  and dignity the same way that you break them in because this
• 29:53
  individual is going to be your biggest marketer, you know, if
• 29:57
  they leave. Hell, I love this organization.
• 30:01
  That's not what I wanted to do, but you know, and this is 1 when
• 30:04
  it's not done tactfully. That's why you hear on LinkedIn
• 30:08
  every day you see somebody. Every day talking about another
• 30:13
  voice that it was. And so on because and they when
• 30:17
  days talk about company X, they really talking about the
• 30:21
  manager, how to manage Yeah for. Sure.
• 30:23
  Usually, yeah. So it's very important to train
• 30:26
  your manager to know how to handle this conversation and
• 30:30
  give them the the tools they need to do a tactfully.
• 30:35
  And so when so you want to end up on LinkedIn and TikTok.
• 30:41
  You don't want to be that. Yeah.
• 30:42
  Especially if the post goes viral.
• 30:44
  There's been a lot of those. A.
• 30:45
  Lot of those. Leaders caught up in remember
• 30:50
  the the web care that what was it the the kiss Cam or whatever
• 30:53
  it is and that leaders there with his the CEO guys there with
• 30:56
  his VP of whoever, I think HR or something.
• 30:59
  Yeah. What you think about that?
• 31:00
  That was kind of crazy. That was crazy.
• 31:03
  It happens more often than we think.
• 31:07
  People are not aware of their surrounding.
• 31:10
  You need to be aware of your surrounding and this is one of
• 31:13
  the reason why you have the state even recommending certain
• 31:18
  things like when it's good, it's good.
• 31:21
  You know when people are getting along, when you get the higher
• 31:25
  up you got, the more aware you have to be aware.
• 31:27
  Emotional intelligence is very important and what you do
• 31:31
  matters, especially when you have a family.
• 31:33
  You have to think about it. It's not all about you.
• 31:35
  It's about a family to, but you know, that's not some people.
• 31:39
  Just want to throw a wrench in their entire life for some
• 31:42
  whatever. It's crazy.
• 31:45
  You mentioned emotional intelligence.
• 31:48
  Can somebody become more emotionally intelligent?
• 31:52
  I think there are tools out there to help you be more
• 31:59
  emotional, intelligent. I think it'd be it's awareness.
• 32:03
  It's awareness of what you do. I did not how many times a day.
• 32:06
  It's like I didn't. I'm sorry.
• 32:08
  I did not. I did not realize I was doing
• 32:10
  that. And so the problem is when, you
• 32:14
  know, you still do it. That's why the issue falls,
• 32:17
  right? And so.
• 32:22
  So, yeah, so you definitely, I, I think definitely there,
• 32:25
  there's hope for humanity. Yeah.
• 32:27
  So. Yes, we can.
• 32:27
  I think, I mean, I think, yeah, you got to be willing to work on
• 32:30
  it. Like anything, you have to be
• 32:32
  willing to say I want to get better at this area.
• 32:34
  Yeah. And I think a lot of it is
• 32:36
  awareness. I think it's, it's like anything
• 32:38
  though. You have certain people that are
• 32:39
  probably just naturally very emotionally intelligent.
• 32:42
  And then you have certain people that are just not, we're not
• 32:44
  born with that necessarily that talent, but they can still
• 32:47
  develop it. Absolutely.
• 32:48
  Just again, anything, any skill set, you know, whether it's a
• 32:50
  sport or an entertainment or a business, this you are born with
• 32:55
  a certain level of talent typically and then you choose
• 32:57
  what you want to do with that and how much you want to grow
• 33:00
  that. Right.
• 33:01
  Yeah. Anybody who wants to grow their
• 33:04
  emotional intelligence. And my good friend Farrah Harris
• 33:07
  wrote a book called Color of. I believe it's Color of Oh God,
• 33:13
  I'm going to butcher dinner. Look up Farrah Harris.
• 33:17
  Look up Farrah Harris. You won't regret it.
• 33:19
  Yeah, Yeah, she is amazing. She is amazing.
• 33:23
  This is her topic. And yeah, cool.
• 33:28
  Somebody you should know if you if you try to develop your that
• 33:32
  area, you definitely want to read her book and get some tips
• 33:36
  on it. She live around here.
• 33:38
  She does. She found her.
• 33:40
  She is. She's gotta get her on the show
• 33:42
  where she is she suburbs or city or?
• 33:45
  She's she's in the city. OK, but yeah, sometimes it's a
• 33:48
  little far, but some people are. We've had people from the city
• 33:50
  come. Up.
• 33:50
  I bet you she probably as far as I came.
• 33:53
  Yeah, she would be. She'd do it.
• 33:54
  Yeah, cool. Maybe that's the next person to
• 33:56
  come on the show. What about employee like hiring?
• 34:00
  Do you deal a lot with that with companies?
• 34:02
  I do what's the what's the state of the state right now for
• 34:04
  hiring? What's the landscape look like
• 34:06
  for both companies and company branding, attracting talent and
• 34:10
  then for the people out there trying to find jobs?
• 34:14
  For there are a lot of talent out there.
• 34:19
  There are a lot of talent within organization that needs to be
• 34:23
  developed. There are.
• 34:25
  If you are out there looking for job, keep looking.
• 34:28
  Don't get discouraged. You're going to find a job
• 34:29
  you're looking for. Continue to work on yourself,
• 34:32
  continue to work on your skills. Even if you out of work, you'll
• 34:37
  get there. I think we going to see a lot of
• 34:42
  organization that kind of like pause their hiring last year,
• 34:47
  they just can't sustain it this year.
• 34:49
  I think you the the market is really going to improve you do I
• 34:53
  think. So why do you think they paused
• 34:54
  last year? I think there's a lot of things
• 34:57
  happening politically, a lot of organization who may have depend
• 35:05
  on government support or hiring or some uncertainties this year
• 35:15
  things you know if if your organization going to survive,
• 35:19
  we just can't say the way it is. So I think there was a lot of
• 35:23
  uncertainties from that perspective that is going to
• 35:26
  some clarity is the things that we took away is coming back.
• 35:31
  I think it's just, I think so. I think it was the, the tariffs,
• 35:35
  I think it was a lot of the political climate.
• 35:37
  I mean, I felt that too. We all did.
• 35:38
  Everyone I talked to was like everyone's kind of on pause
• 35:41
  right now. It's like July, August,
• 35:42
  September, October. Everyone was like, not sure
• 35:44
  what's going to happen. And then people are like, are we
• 35:46
  in an AI bubble? Is the stock market going to
• 35:48
  crash? Like I don't know if I want to
• 35:49
  hire right now. Yeah, I just want to hold to see
• 35:51
  what's happening. I don't want to use my reserve
• 35:54
  and all of that stuff. But you you think that's
• 35:56
  changing this year? You cannot.
• 35:58
  You cannot sustain it. Yeah.
• 36:00
  People who you got to make a, you got to make a move you.
• 36:02
  Have to make a move, otherwise their.
• 36:03
  Competitors will, too. Yeah.
• 36:05
  And I think the employees who are working overtime, right,
• 36:08
  you, they can only work overtime then their well beings is
• 36:11
  impacted. So you have to bring support to
• 36:13
  them. Yeah, that's my, that's my
• 36:17
  prediction. And then from a company
• 36:18
  standpoint, how do you create an unfair advantage in terms of
• 36:21
  attracting top talent? Like what are some things you
• 36:23
  can do as a company? What can you do to attract great
• 36:28
  talent? I think that culture we talked
• 36:32
  about before you go and start bringing people other candidate
• 36:39
  and take care of the ones that you have in here in your
• 36:41
  organization. I think if you have toxic
• 36:44
  environment and then you bring people in, they're going to
• 36:47
  leave because you have to fix what you have and then you focus
• 36:51
  on bringing others in. I think that is that that that
• 36:57
  is what you need to do. And then I think you need to
• 37:00
  focus on, again, we go back to the people centered different
• 37:04
  strategies, trying to think about the growth of your people,
• 37:09
  thinking about the experience, talking about the well-being of
• 37:14
  your people. That's what if you want to
• 37:16
  create an environment where people can, will stay, you have
• 37:22
  to be a people centric organization and you have to
• 37:24
  build it. Don't just say you are, don't
• 37:27
  just put it on your policy, but we'll live it.
• 37:29
  I've seen a lot of organization owners, managers, leaders who
• 37:34
  have good intention, but in in theory, but when it comes to the
• 37:41
  day-to-day practice, they are not living it.
• 37:45
  So whatever your values are, whatever you said in black and
• 37:49
  white, live it. And if you do that, you will be
• 37:53
  able to attract and retain the right kind of caliber.
• 37:57
  Because if I know this organization, if I value
• 38:00
  learning and you said your organization is a learning
• 38:03
  organization, then I am choosing to come to you because I thought
• 38:08
  you fit my box. But when I get here and then you
• 38:13
  are not a learning organization, I'm going to leave.
• 38:18
  So all that money you spent into hiring me, training me, and then
• 38:22
  six months down the road I leave, you just open the window
• 38:26
  and just let it out. So again, do what you're going
• 38:30
  to say and say what you're going to do and you will attract the
• 38:35
  right people and the right people, if they find out that
• 38:38
  that's who you are truly, then they will stay with you.
• 38:42
  And employees are not there forever.
• 38:44
  Some employees are not there forever.
• 38:45
  That's OK. But when they are there, if you
• 38:49
  do what you said you're going to do, then you're going to get
• 38:52
  their best work and they are going to be the best promoter of
• 38:56
  your organization to get the next person to replace them.
• 39:00
  I'm gonna refer my friends to this organization because they
• 39:03
  treat their people well. Totally, yeah, so and that's hey
• 39:06
  0 recruitment cost on that you know that's nice when you got
• 39:09
  people referring zero yeah, I think about candidate experience
• 39:12
  too. You know, what is the candidate
• 39:14
  experience when someone comes in to physically interview, you
• 39:17
  know, if they're coming actually to the office and they're gonna
• 39:19
  walk through and what is that experience like from the time
• 39:22
  they hit the front door to the time they leave?
• 39:25
  You know, did you absolutely wow them?
• 39:27
  I think about something from the podcast, you know, we try to
• 39:29
  have people's favorite drink there.
• 39:30
  We try to make them comfortable. We have a gift box.
• 39:32
  We give them a lot of great contact or we try to create an
• 39:35
  unbelievable experience. One, I think it's just like the
• 39:37
  right thing to do. And two, it helps you create
• 39:40
  more experiences for other people because they're more
• 39:42
  excited to tell the people about it made them feel good inside.
• 39:45
  There was something different that they had an experience
• 39:47
  before where you go to some. I mean, we've all been on
• 39:50
  interviews and I worked for a recruitment company for six
• 39:52
  years, a large one, and we've all seen it.
• 39:55
  We've all seen people come into office and like they're waiting
• 39:58
  in the lobby. No one's talking to taking care
• 40:00
  of them. They come in, the manager's
• 40:02
  unprepared. They come in bluffing up resume.
• 40:04
  So what do you, what do you, where'd you go to school at?
• 40:06
  It's just like they weren't prepared at all.
• 40:09
  I think the experience is such a big one from if you're able to
• 40:12
  attract them enough to get them to come to the office.
• 40:15
  And I think to your point, really aligning with what their
• 40:17
  goals are and interests are too. I think the candidate experience
• 40:20
  is very important because us HR we can give you a good
• 40:25
  experience, right. But the on board, that's where
• 40:29
  after the initial experience, it's very important on how the
• 40:36
  onboarding process goes because us HR, we did our job.
• 40:41
  We get you that. We help you write a job
• 40:43
  description. We help you find a great
• 40:46
  candidate based on your requirement.
• 40:48
  And we give that employee to and miss manager, Mr. Manager,
• 40:52
  within a month to 30 days. That employee is like, bye, I, I
• 40:57
  can't do this. So you have to really, you
• 41:02
  really have to think about it. A perfect example, I, I helped
• 41:06
  somebody, I help a candidate find a job and a candidate had a
• 41:13
  couple meetings with me tell them about the organization.
• 41:17
  It was perfect. They they really was very
• 41:21
  interested. So on they had a Zoom meeting
• 41:24
  with the manager, perfect. Now the employee, I always said
• 41:29
  I do not like hire people on Zoom.
• 41:31
  Yeah, everything can be done, but I like I always encourage my
• 41:35
  to have an in person interview. The candidate walked in there.
• 41:40
  She was like Sarah, the moment I walk in there, I wanted to walk,
• 41:42
  but within 5 minutes I wanted to walk back.
• 41:45
  It just felt like it. Give me you know it makes it
• 41:50
  took her to a place she didn't want to be.
• 41:52
  Yeah, you can feel it sometimes you're like, this is.
• 41:54
  So I was like, I was like, Are you sure?
• 41:57
  She was like, so I cannot do this.
• 41:59
  I'm not going to. They offered to do this person a
• 42:03
  job who has been looking for work for a very long time, and
• 42:07
  she turned it down because she choose her well be.
• 42:11
  So now this company is a company that has a new leader trying to
• 42:16
  get change the organization, but they are not ready yet.
• 42:20
  I think if they told if they were honest and the Zoom
• 42:24
  interview they were honest with what I was selling, that would
• 42:29
  have been a different saying that hey, this we are in the
• 42:32
  process of turning this around from what it was to what it be.
• 42:37
  Then the employee would this candidate would have walked and
• 42:40
  knowing exactly what he she was walk, walk into and she have a
• 42:44
  choice to choose or not to choose this organization.
• 42:49
  That's why we have to understand, organizations need
• 42:51
  to understand while you are interviewing and trying to get
• 42:57
  an employee to come to work with you, the employee also have a
• 43:00
  choice to is also interviewing you to see if you are who you
• 43:06
  said you are. And so if you are in the
• 43:10
  process, if your policy said one thing, but what you do is
• 43:14
  something different, they will see it, they will hear it.
• 43:17
  And I'm very happy that this employee, this candidate saw
• 43:21
  this before she went in and and trying to get into the
• 43:27
  organization that led me to have a different conversation with
• 43:32
  the with the organization and so I can be able to find them the
• 43:36
  right person. So tell me where you are.
• 43:38
  So this is what the candidates say.
• 43:40
  Is this true? And I'll never forget the
• 43:42
  manager say, Sarah, we are working on it.
• 43:48
  I think that's honesty. That's an honesty any recruiter
• 43:52
  can deal with. Yeah, it's a work in progress.
• 43:56
  Yeah. So any candidate can choose to
• 43:59
  walk into a work in progress or they want to walk into something
• 44:02
  that is all finished when the work is finished.
• 44:04
  Give me a call. They have the choice to say
• 44:07
  that. You know, the thing I just
• 44:08
  thought of too that ties in with this is that I think employers
• 44:11
  should be sharing their vulnerabilities on the
• 44:14
  interview. Hey, here's some areas we're
• 44:15
  gonna tell you today all about how we're great and this company
• 44:18
  is doing this and our vision and our goals and our culture.
• 44:21
  But we want to be honest about this is where we're struggling a
• 44:24
  little bit right now and we're challenged and we're working on
• 44:27
  it and we've got a plan in place to turn it around.
• 44:29
  But these are some areas that, you know, we're trying to get
• 44:31
  better. I think anybody can can deal
• 44:35
  with that honesty. I think people would really
• 44:36
  appreciate that instead of it's just like a sales pitch when
• 44:39
  like this is so great and it's this and it's that it's this
• 44:42
  versus the person that like kind of listens and kind of just
• 44:44
  shoots you straight. You you, you build trust.
• 44:47
  I think more than 100%. Right away you have the trust.
• 44:51
  Yeah, you know, so. So if you're somebody looking
• 44:53
  for a job, we all know people. I have a friend right now.
• 44:55
  It's looking for a job. We all do typically at some
• 44:58
  point in time. Are job boards dead?
• 45:02
  Like what would be your advice to someone that's looking for a
• 45:04
  job right now? It seems like it's just like so
• 45:06
  flooded, you feel like you submit the application, submit
• 45:10
  and then it's just like goes into some AI like algorithm and
• 45:13
  like who knows what happens. I think last year I saw a lot of
• 45:18
  jobs that that were posted, but I think some of the organs just
• 45:26
  like we were saying, there's a lot of people who are trying to
• 45:28
  see what's you know, how the pocket is.
• 45:30
  I think they were just shopping to see what is trying to build a
• 45:34
  pipeline and I do not like when an organization do that.
• 45:39
  Yeah, I think if. It's legal.
• 45:40
  To do, isn't it? It's OK.
• 45:43
  It's OK if you are building your pipeline.
• 45:45
  You need to say you're building your pipeline, you know, but I
• 45:49
  think it's disrespectful to candidates who are looking for
• 45:53
  work. You they fill out an application
• 45:57
  and then it go to a black hole or six months down the road, you
• 46:01
  call me and well, a good candidate may not be available
• 46:06
  six months down the road. And so I think just having that
• 46:10
  initial conversation, letting people know where you are, you
• 46:14
  know, if a position, if you start recruiting and the
• 46:17
  position become on hold, I think again, that communication goes
• 46:21
  back to say that I am, you know, the position is on hold.
• 46:28
  You know, based on whatever we will let you know when it's
• 46:31
  reopen if that's the case. But if you don't intend to hire,
• 46:36
  you should not. Your job should not be on
• 46:38
  LinkedIn. Do you think it's a waste of
• 46:40
  time to apply for jobs though nowadays?
• 46:41
  No, I don't think. So is there a better strategy
• 46:43
  that you take something more proactive or more how do I stand
• 46:45
  out? Because to me it's just like
• 46:47
  submit, submit. Submit.
• 46:48
  I think reaching out to I have a lot of people who reach out to
• 46:52
  me and will ask, hey Sarah, I'm looking for work, do you know
• 46:57
  anyone? And sometimes it's not even in
• 47:01
  my areas of expertise, then I will find somebody forwarded on,
• 47:06
  I think reaching out to the hiring manager or the
• 47:09
  organization directly. Don't just apply and just sit,
• 47:13
  but do your due diligence and reach out and see what's going
• 47:18
  on. I think referrals is very good
• 47:23
  too. So if I, if you're looking for a
• 47:26
  job, I always when I talk to people who are looking for work,
• 47:30
  I always ask them, tell me three or two, four companies that you
• 47:36
  would like to work for because most likely maybe they don't
• 47:39
  have something posted, but maybe they are thinking about.
• 47:43
  Posting it. Yeah, totally.
• 47:44
  Get in front of those individuals you know, reach out
• 47:47
  to them and see what's going on. If you have anyone who is
• 47:52
  looking for work in HR, finance, IT and marketing accounting,
• 48:00
  give me a call. Maybe I know somebody and these
• 48:03
  are the positions that we truly focus on.
• 48:06
  So give us a call and we'll see how we can support you.
• 48:10
  Yeah, I love it. And you've been in business how
• 48:12
  long now? February 6 years.
• 48:15
  Wow, so I thought you were right around the same time as me.
• 48:17
  So, yeah, mine will be July 6 years.
• 48:21
  Yeah. 2020, July 2020, yeah. So you're February 2020.
• 48:25
  Yeah, yeah. That's when I wanted my first
• 48:26
  customers, a side hustle at the time.
• 48:28
  And then I left my full time job in 2020 or July 2020, recruiting
• 48:32
  company Aerotech. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 48:36
  So six years. Six years.
• 48:38
  What how's the journey been in like?
• 48:40
  Well, if you were to look back and I know it's like, I feel
• 48:42
  like the first 5-6 years are the toughest they say.
• 48:45
  But how, how would you kind of like sum up the journey so far
• 48:48
  and what, what might you say to the person, to yourself six
• 48:51
  years ago that was just starting?
• 48:53
  What do you feel like you know now?
• 48:54
  I feel like I just went through a PhD program, you know?
• 49:01
  Times 20, yes. Yes, I think a lot of us when we
• 49:05
  go, we go into business because we love our areas of expertise.
• 49:11
  We love what we do and we do it well.
• 49:14
  And so we thought we think that's provided to other people,
• 49:18
  but you don't see the sales, the marketing, the the running a
• 49:21
  business that takes a. Lot.
• 49:24
  A lot of your time. And so if I had to do it all
• 49:29
  over again, I'm sure there's that's definitely other things
• 49:32
  that I would do. Maybe there's definitely some
• 49:39
  other things I would do. I, I don't know if it, COVID
• 49:43
  kind of solidified me going full force the way that I did because
• 49:51
  I had little kids and we were doing school on Zoom and I
• 49:55
  needed to. I remember that that was tough.
• 49:56
  I've so felt so bad for the teacher because we're trying to
• 49:59
  wrangle all the kids together instead of nurses.
• 50:01
  Like, I mean, we all just did our best.
• 50:04
  Yeah, I had a first grader at the time at third and a fifth
• 50:08
  grader, so I had to be home and you couldn't find babysitter or
• 50:14
  somebody for the life. Of you was coming near you with
• 50:17
  a 10 foot pole. For six months we we saw no one
• 50:21
  but us, you know, but I think I absolutely love where I am.
• 50:29
  I'm in this season. I think I will be here.
• 50:33
  I'm I've I've always said to people will ask me, would you
• 50:36
  ever go back into organization? I see I'm never, I never take it
• 50:41
  off the table, but for right now, this I'm exactly where I
• 50:44
  need to be. I hope this is what I do for the
• 50:47
  rest of my life. But if the time comes where I
• 50:50
  have to go, I think whoever would get me in house would be a
• 50:54
  very long organization because the things that I've learned
• 50:58
  over the last six years is just next level.
• 51:02
  I, I Oh my gosh, you know, the resources, how to tap into
• 51:06
  resources and and so on and so forth.
• 51:09
  So I absolutely think this was when it happened.
• 51:15
  How it happened was tough. Learning has been steep.
• 51:19
  I wish I was starting out where I am today, I think.
• 51:23
  Can you imagine if? You knew the shit you knew.
• 51:25
  You know, you go backside, sit down, grab a notepad.
• 51:28
  We're going to be here a while, All right?
• 51:29
  You're going to take some notes and don't do this.
• 51:31
  Don't that's stupid. You're never going to do that.
• 51:33
  Don't, don't do that. Focus on this.
• 51:36
  Stop getting away from this. You know, it's like all the, all
• 51:39
  the shit we all go through like. Can you imagine how fast your
• 51:42
  organization, your company would grow if you could start today?
• 51:45
  Yes. Oh.
• 51:46
  My gosh. And I'm sure six years down the
• 51:48
  road we would say the same thing.
• 51:49
  I think so. I really think 5-6 years, you
• 51:51
  start to kind of finally hit your stride.
• 51:53
  I mean, every business is different, but I think
• 51:55
  consulting, coaching, that kind of stuff more service based, B2B
• 51:58
  service based with companies, I think it takes 5-6 years and
• 52:01
  I've interviewed a lot of founders.
• 52:02
  They tell me the same thing and not that you're not doing well
• 52:04
  or making money in the first few years, but just really to where
• 52:07
  you feel like it just starts. Taking off.
• 52:09
  To a next level. The next level, yeah.
• 52:11
  And I think to the other thing is the confident.
• 52:16
  Yes. The confident you have to say,
• 52:19
  can you help me? I don't know.
• 52:21
  And I think that's somebody yesterday I was talking to and I
• 52:23
  said, that's the difference between when I was in an
• 52:26
  organization and now. I think in the past you are so
• 52:30
  afraid of telling people your weakness when you in because you
• 52:33
  think, Oh my God, they might fire me if they know if they
• 52:36
  know that now I'm like, I need this company to grow.
• 52:39
  Can you help me? I don't care.
• 52:41
  This is where I am. You know this other weakness.
• 52:44
  I you know you, you so open to share.
• 52:47
  You need to be able to share with the right person that you
• 52:50
  think can help you move the needle.
• 52:52
  Be careful of who you talk to, but people who can really help
• 52:55
  you, I think it's OK. And I think that's the
• 52:57
  different, that's the growth and the confidence that you built
• 53:01
  where I think, you know what, if I can survive 2020 in business,
• 53:06
  I can survive 2023. You bring it on.
• 53:12
  That's right, that's right. Sometimes I just get out of bed.
• 53:14
  I'm like, let's go, you know, just kind of ready to go.
• 53:17
  I think you need to start the mornings like that.
• 53:19
  Yeah. Have some like, we're gonna
• 53:21
  attack today. We're gonna go get it you.
• 53:22
  Know yeah, do you have? Something here you wanted to
• 53:25
  share or No, No I. Just some.
• 53:27
  Just some. You know what?
• 53:28
  I was just gonna say, you know, we have, I talked a little bit
• 53:31
  about my webinar, so anyone who wants to look on the website and
• 53:36
  see if there's any webinar that could do that.
• 53:39
  But I'm very excited to say last year, the year before, I was
• 53:43
  like, OK, we do webinars, how do we continue to grow?
• 53:48
  And I was like, OK, I got it. So last year we put a
• 53:53
  conference, a one day conference for HR leaders in Lake County,
• 53:58
  Illinois and business owners who one maybe cannot go to Sherm can
• 54:05
  doesn't have access to so many things, so different learning.
• 54:10
  So we put this one day learning together that is touching on the
• 54:15
  main topics that helps an organization move the needle.
• 54:19
  And we had it last year in April and I'm so excited that we are
• 54:23
  bringing it back this year on May 13th.
• 54:26
  So organizations that are looking for a place to connect
• 54:31
  want to have a day pack of learning and giving you some
• 54:35
  strategies to help lead your organization more effectively.
• 54:39
  Would absolutely love to talk to anyone and I invite your
• 54:44
  community to this conference. Very cool, and we'll definitely
• 54:49
  link up the website and all that stuff in the comments too.
• 54:51
  Absolutely. I wanna end on this.
• 54:54
  These two here your parents, right?
• 54:58
  Yes, those are my I. Know your mother.
• 55:00
  My mom. I'm curious, I'm a father, most
• 55:03
  of our listeners are fathers, mothers.
• 55:06
  I'm curious what they taught you cuz they seem like they had a
• 55:08
  pretty good I made a pretty good impression on you and you had a
• 55:11
  pretty good inspiration on your life and how you probably raise
• 55:14
  your children. I'm curious what are some of the
• 55:16
  lessons that maybe one or two that stood out?
• 55:19
  You know, my dad, my dad was Pastor Sidwan Lucian, and my mom
• 55:23
  was a teeny. And Lucian, they are.
• 55:26
  I'm going to cry. Look at you.
• 55:28
  Why did you do that? I know that.
• 55:30
  No, it's an emotional. I know that they passed away.
• 55:33
  Right, they passed away. My mom passed away December
• 55:36
  2019. That is I remember going to see
• 55:40
  her in September and when I came back I start thinking about what
• 55:47
  is why do I do what I do? And that was she is a huge when
• 55:54
  I came back, the day, that first day I went back to work, that
• 55:57
  was my last day of work because I, that was my last day of work.
• 56:01
  And my dad started my dad, my dad was six months after my mom
• 56:10
  passed away, my dad got COVID and he passed away as well.
• 56:16
  They were married for 64 1/2 years and my dad started a
• 56:22
  ministry that have 130 churches in Haiti, 17 schools.
• 56:30
  We have my brother who's in over the ministry right now.
• 56:33
  I have a started a university and there's a lot of things
• 56:39
  going on in the ministry. And when my past my dad passed
• 56:43
  away, we were thinking about how do we keep how do we keep the
• 56:46
  ministry going? So there's nine of us kids and
• 56:50
  every one of us took a part ministry.
• 56:54
  Yeah, my dad had they had nine children.
• 56:56
  I'm the eighth of nine. And then they adopted 1, so 10.
• 56:59
  But two weeks before my dad passed away, my oldest brother
• 57:03
  passed away from COVID as well. And so there's nine of us still
• 57:07
  here because of the adopted. So nine of us still here and we
• 57:11
  were thinking, I was thinking about how do I keep my dad
• 57:14
  ministry going? Two years before my dad's passed
• 57:17
  away, I start helping him with the schools and I've always,
• 57:20
  I'm, I love education and I wanted to take over that.
• 57:24
  So when he passed away, kind of accelerated that.
• 57:27
  So I took over the school and when I thought about how do I
• 57:32
  keep going, how what do I do? My dad philosophy in life, he
• 57:37
  says by Timonio Shancio with this is a career where that say
• 57:42
  give the children their chances. And when I started my company,
• 57:46
  everybody that I look, I look at how do I give manager a chance
• 57:50
  to support? So that's a part of my mission.
• 57:55
  And so my company, when I created it, I created with the
• 57:59
  mind of how do I help keep the ministry that my dad have alive
• 58:03
  the schools that I am running because I need to pay teachers,
• 58:07
  I need to pay. There's things that I need for
• 58:10
  the for the schools to run. And so by my business, one of
• 58:16
  the main reason why I didn't give up, I can't give up is
• 58:20
  because it fuels the school, some of the schools that I
• 58:24
  support. Part of my part of what I do,
• 58:29
  part of my my profit goes to pay for school.
• 58:34
  So people who work with me, while I may not say it, you are
• 58:38
  part of a bigger mission. And that mission is educating
• 58:42
  kids that you will never know. My prices is no different than
• 58:45
  if you go somewhere else, but it's a mission base.
• 58:49
  If I could do that, supporting these kids, 100% I would if I
• 58:55
  could. So I can't let people,
• 58:57
  architectural group goes because it's bigger than me.
• 59:00
  It's bigger than feeding my children here.
• 59:03
  It's feeding something so much greater and bigger than me.
• 59:06
  And so I am I. I love my parents for giving us,
• 59:12
  for teaching us that everything you do is not all about you.
• 59:16
  It's a bigger mission. We all believers.
• 59:20
  So I believe that everything that I do, I do it with
• 59:23
  integrity. I do it with love and passion.
• 59:27
  And I hope that when I help a business that I leave my
• 59:30
  fingerprint in there and that people see a light in me when I
• 59:34
  I give them hope, I have them understand that there is they
• 59:39
  are. My saying is that your potential
• 59:42
  is beyond what you can see and you have more value than you
• 59:45
  can. You've ever been hurt.
• 59:47
  So those people who are at organizations that they feel
• 59:51
  like someone is telling them that you can't, I want you to
• 59:54
  know you can because your potential is there.
• 59:57
  What you can do today is great at tomorrow is going to be
• 1:00:00
  greater than what you can do today because that potential is
• 1:00:02
  increasing as you and your value.
• 1:00:04
  If I take my diamond ring, throw it in the trash, that value is
• 1:00:08
  still there. So if you have a toxic manager
• 1:00:11
  who's talking better than you are greater than what he or she
• 1:00:15
  is saying to you because your value does not diminish.
• 1:00:18
  And this is the chance that I want to do through it's it's
• 1:00:22
  built into what we do in the training and development.
• 1:00:26
  That's why I want people every training and development that I
• 1:00:29
  do, I start with a little mindset because if your mindset
• 1:00:33
  is wrong, thing is going to be and if the managers mention that
• 1:00:37
  they're, they're going to pour it on their team.
• 1:00:40
  So be positive. Make sure that you are right
• 1:00:43
  before you leave the door bill right before you start talking
• 1:00:46
  to people. It's OK that you have a meeting.
• 1:00:48
  You cancel it because you your mind is not on the right place.
• 1:00:52
  If I talk to you because of everything that's just happened,
• 1:00:54
  I'm going to have a bad attitude.
• 1:00:57
  I will cancel that meeting with you because I do not want that
• 1:01:00
  bad attitude to ruin you. I don't want to say something.
• 1:01:04
  I am better at not talking than have to say I'm sorry.
• 1:01:08
  Because when I say I'm sorry, you'll hear me, but you'll
• 1:01:11
  always remember what I said. So be okay to cancel that
• 1:01:14
  meeting when your attitude is you in the funk.
• 1:01:18
  Yeah. So by team audio chance to give
• 1:01:20
  people opportunity to grow and that's what I do everything to
• 1:01:24
  people architectural group. Wow, thank you for sharing that.
• 1:01:27
  That's so cool. Yeah, I, I every everything you
• 1:01:30
  just shared so obviously comes through and this conversation, I
• 1:01:34
  think anyone listening would say the same thing to everything
• 1:01:36
  that you talked about today. I just.
• 1:01:38
  I didn't know anything about your parents and but after after
• 1:01:41
  this it makes sense as to how you are the way you are, or at
• 1:01:44
  least in part. And I'm sure you pass that down
• 1:01:45
  to your kids, too. I hope.
• 1:01:47
  So yeah, I'm sure you do. So Sarah, I want to thank you
• 1:01:50
  for being on the show. I really appreciate you.
• 1:01:52
  This is a great conversation. I know our audience is going to
• 1:01:54
  get a lot of value from this too.
• 1:01:56
  Where can people find you, connect with you, Learn more
• 1:01:58
  about webinars and what you guys have going on.
• 1:02:00
  Well, they can reach out to me. I'm on LinkedIn.
• 1:02:03
  Yeah. I would love to connect with
• 1:02:05
  anyone that that feels like they can.
• 1:02:08
  They need a chance. They need to give their
• 1:02:10
  employees a chance. I would love to be able to talk
• 1:02:13
  to them on LinkedIn. Please go to my website,
• 1:02:16
  peopletugroup.com, and you can get more information about us as
• 1:02:22
  well. But thank you so much for having
• 1:02:24
  me. This was good.
• 1:02:25
  This was a long time in the making.
• 1:02:26
  Yeah, it was. It was.
• 1:02:28
  Thanks again for coming out. We'll link everything in the
• 1:02:30
  description. Thanks, Sarah.
• 1:02:31
  Thank you.