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Burnout is not a badge of honor · Break The Leadership Script

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Break the Leadership Script or Leaders Ready to Challenge for Actually World.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Each week, we give you 17 minutes to challenge thinking that shapes a BD.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because most leadership advice sounds good if they fall apart under real question.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: So we break people's leadership scripts.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Every episode we take a common leadership belief, test it against reality, and ask: does it actually hold up when people in question are involved?
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Then we reframe it: practical, honest, effective.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: No fluffy, just real insight you can use.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: With your hosts, Alex Rivas and Mark Noon, let's break the leadership script.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, welcome back to Break the Leadership Script.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: I am your co-host, Mark Noon, along with my partner.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Alex Revis.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, you alright?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Good to see you again.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: You too.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um seems like we do these so quickly.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, every week they come out and it uh uh it just goes by.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I can't even believe we're on episode, I don't know, six, seven, eight, something like that.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even keep track anymore.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's just so many.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's been so good.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, we're gonna break the script again.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, imagine that, right?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's the name of this thing.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: How do we challenge the thinking that shapes leaders?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, burnout is a big topic in the business world.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Big topic.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: When I I grew up in a healthcare world for 30 plus years, burnout was a big deal.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um physician burnout, nurse burnout, burnout for what executive burnout, a lot of moving pieces.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Last six years, a lot of changes in the world, a lot of people getting burnt out with things.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and another side of that is is because the culture has changed some.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot less burnout in some areas because of the way that we're doing business and the way that we're realizing things.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: What is burnout?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: When people talk about burnt out, what does that even mean?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's when uh someone has finally hit their boiling point, right?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's fine when they've reached their capacity, you know, or they're literally driving on empty, right?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: They're officially burning out from all the work and stress that they have compiled on themselves.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: So is it that they compiled it on themselves?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is it that we've we've put ourselves in this burnout situation, or is it that it's been thrust upon us?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely a mixture of both.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I would say, I would say compiled on themselves in this world for myself.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there were a lot of times that when I got to that burnout, even though it was people putting things on me, I didn't know how to say no.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, or I didn't know how to say I've I've taken on too much or I've had enough.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so that from that personal respon responsibility aspect, I would say compiled on myself because I probably could have said no to many of those things and it would have been fine, you know.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but because I wanted to show up, yeah, let's say uh I accepted things that it probably was too much for me to handle at the time.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that a lot of businesses, a lot of cultures in businesses, a lot of industries put a lot of pressure on people.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: They put a lot of pressure to perform, or or you or or as you said, you put it upon yourself because you think you need to live at this certain level.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and we we we subtopic this this burnout is not a badge of honor is overwork, bad stress, and toxic culture.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about overwork.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: What does that look like?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: When I think of overwork, does it mean that I'm putting I'm working 60 hours a week?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is it that even in the 40 hours a week that we might work that we're doing too much in that 40 hours?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: What you know when you look at overwork, is it both of those things?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a comp is it is it more that we're it's being imposed upon us or we're trying to perform in that?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's both of those things.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: What you said?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think I definitely think that um, you know, I know people who they only work 40 hours a week and they're burnt out.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I know some that can work 60, 70 hours a week and they're perfectly fine.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they've managed it right.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it it comes down to how you're managing what you've been given or what you're taking.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think about you said somebody works 40 hours and they're burnt out.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and is that a cultural thing?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a generational thing?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I like I look at um, you know, I study a lot of different generations and I think about the you know, the traditionalists, which are you know, the World War II generation and the boomers that came up behind them, even the Xers that came up behind them, and there's the there's a work mentality of overwork.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's do whatever the job takes.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't, I don't, I don't really remember them, you know, as I'm growing up in that getting burnt out because it was sort of the expectation was that this is how many hours you work and this is what you do during that time.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Millennial generation, your generation, Gen Z, the one coming up behind them, they have a different attitude toward work, which I think is in a lot of ways really healthy.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So to them, overwork might be, oh my gosh, I did 40 hours this week.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's overwork.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, yep.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and is that overwork, or is it that they they weren't productive during those 40 hours?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I think of people who have jobs where they sit around a lot and they're not doing it, they don't feel very productive.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: That can be stressful.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: That can be that can burn you out just not doing things for that time.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're 100% right.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um uh you're right that the you know that older generation was working so much and almost like in a survival mode, right?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you don't have time to burn out.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're in the middle of a war, there's no such thing as burnout.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: You work to survive.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, and as the generations have changed, I've seen it in my son's generation.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: They burn out very fast, you know, very quickly.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: It is just difference of culture and I I remember hearing the first time I ever heard this, I thought I could not believe that somebody actually had this thought.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: They needed a mental health day.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I meant what is a mental health day?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, apparently that's a day that they need to be away from work and away from everything else to de-stress or whatever.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: I thought, uh in my generation, generation is that would a mental health day would have meant you got fired.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you don't need to be here at work, you you just stay home and don't come back.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: So so what is how do we how do we prevent the overwork?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Again, we're saying burnout is not a badge of honor.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a positive thing that you're overworked, overstressed, or part of a toxic culture.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: How do we stop ourselves from overworking?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: I would say focus on praising efficiency and the outcomes and not just how many hours someone's logged in, right?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, people I know who are like, well, I worked 70 hours this week.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, but what did you do all day?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of goes back to the the busy badge, right?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, you're you're burning yourself out because you're just logging so many hours.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, there's a couple people that come to mind I've had conversations with recently where I say, Well, with the amount of hours you put in, I could get all that done in half the time.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and because I'm in certain aspects in certain areas, I'm more organized and I can structure it better and I can be more efficient in the work that I'm doing.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: You're doing things very differently.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give you an example.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: One uh my wife, we I help her with her work at home sometimes, and she uses all her stuff on her laptop, and I'm like, you need to buy a mouse and a mouse pad.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: It'll make your life so much easier when you're you're doing all this work.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Say, no, it's fine.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, it's not.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: I promise you it'll be easier.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm doing my stuff on my laptop, and it's just easier to work on.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's more efficient.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: So focusing on the efficiency and the outcomes as opposed to the hours logged.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a very good point, is the amount of hours that we put in doesn't necessarily mean we're getting a lot done.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and what are we doing in that time?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I'm an early morning person.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: I literally can get up in the early morning, hit the gym, do the stuff I need to do with that, and then start work.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And people get emails from me at four or five o'clock in the morning because that's my productive time.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: By nine o'clock in the morning, I'm not burnt out, but I'm like, okay, I've done enough.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I need to have a break.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I can do that in my role, in where I am.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: My my work is flexible enough.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: I can schedule appointments or I can schedule calls and coaching sessions differently so that it fits that.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: But for the leader who feels like it's being dumped upon them, I think that's the difficult part with burnout is how do we say no?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: You you mentioned this in the very beginning.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: How do we say no to a system andor a boss who is loading us with the extra work or the or taking up the efficiency, taking away our efficiency by loading us with so many things?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's you know, that's a hard thing because you have to first take an audit of yourself.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like be honest with yourself.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have too much work, or are you, again, inefficient in what you're doing?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you've broken that down, then it's a lot easier to go to a boss and be like, hey, I have too much on my plate.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you can be honest, and then you can show and you can say, look, I've been trying to be as efficient as possible.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Or can you show me a way that I could be more efficient?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: You want this done.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Am I missing something?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a better way to handle this?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you need to be first audit yourself and second be honest with whoever's in charge.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean they're gonna like it.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean they might agree, but take ownership of yourself and see have you been efficient in what you're doing?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I found many times I was not.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I'm burnt out.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I would talk to certain people and go, well, you could do this better, you could do this better, organize your stuff.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very scatterbrained.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you look at my desktop and it's all over the place.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, hey, organize it into files, easier to find something.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, okay, that's now it's easier to do.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And now if I do have a something that I am still having to complain with, I can go to my boss and be like, hey, this is everything that I did.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: I've been trying to be efficient, it's not working.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still feeling the overload.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think it that's the important thing is having a conversation, right?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and we're afraid to have conversations.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and I would hope, for for those of you listening, I would hope that you have a relationship with your leader as a leader yourself to have that, to be able to have the trust and be able to go and say, hey, this is how much I can do, or this is how I need to do things, or I'm struggling to get this done.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Can you help me do this?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: The other side of that as a leader is how do you not create burnout on the other side and overwork your team by loading them with more things they need, or creating the inefficiencies because a lot of times what we do is we project our own inefficiencies on others.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because we say this is how things need to be done, or this is the way I do it, you need to do it exactly.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that doesn't work for me.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and we're gonna we're gonna talk about motivators in an upcoming episode.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm motivated very much by the ability to do things my own way.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: So if you give me a task and I can do this and I can do it the way that I want to accomplish it, I'm gonna be very happy and I'm gonna be less stressed, less burnt out about it.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing, so this is where stress comes in, and and stress is a leading cause to burnout.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's the the stress that we feel either we brought upon ourselves and or are is you know thrust upon us by by whatever we have control.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: So there's there's good stress.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Good stress is um I I have a fast for me, good stress is fast paced, being able to do a lot of things, being able to do it the way I want to do it.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's the control, and I don't mean controlling like I'm like I'm a controlling person.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I have control over the pace.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: I have control over that.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Bad stress is I'm getting overloaded with the amount of things I have to do.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm inefficient, which is causing me the disorganization is causing me not to get these things done, and I have very low control because my boss or somebody else in the organization has more control on how things are done than than I'm allowed to be able to do.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that makes sense.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Good stress and bad stress is so important.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I always like to bring a gym metaphor into it, but if you're at the gym, good stress will produce muscle growth.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, bad stress will produce muscle pain, right?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I am not a bencher, I don't like benching.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: I like to use dumbbell press because, similar to what you're saying, I can control how the stress is and how my wrists feel when I'm going down.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and nothing against anyone who benches, but with a bench press is very firm and is much sp static, let's say, in that in that area.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: But so there is a difference between good and bad stress, and good stress is good because you can't grow without it.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you remove all stress, you will not grow.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's it's learning to understand the difference between the two and on a on our in our day-to-day is what is a good stress, what is a proper form, what is a proper way of doing things so that you can grow in that.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not just removing all stress is not gonna be is not good for you either.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a great example.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm the same way at the gym.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: I even have uh push-up handles that I use at home when I'm doing push-ups that rotate.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So my wrist can rotate the way that doesn't create stress on my wrists or my shoulders, but I can still get the full chest and arm workout that I need to have.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great example.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do we so overwork, bad stress, and then we have toxic culture, and we think about toxic culture, and and there's a lot of different ways that people talk about toxic culture, and I it's sort of an overused cliche as well, toxic culture.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: But it's the environment again, we go back to some of our previous uh conversations.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: What's the environment that we've created that lends itself to burnout?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that for toxic is probably a strong word in that culture, but a culture that lends itself to burning people out is one that's overworked and overstressed.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: What happens?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: How do we break that script?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: How do we change that as leaders within the control and the sphere that we have to be able to allow other people to do the work they need to do without create overstressing or burning them out?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, one, you gotta get your team involved.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta ask them directly, like, hey, what's going on?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: What's not working?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Be open to that.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, any leader who's going back to the know it all, it's like if you're just gonna do it your way, have full control over it, yeah, you know, that's gonna be a problem.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: But cut the fat, right?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Focus on priorities, focus on, hey, what are the things that we need to hit now?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know a lot of people are very big on having task lists, and that's good.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's good to have one.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing I always tell people is there's a some people that always say, Well, I just want to get my list done.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I tell them the list won't done until you die, right?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's that list will continue to add on.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're always gonna push that, this list needs to be done, you're gonna be killing yourself and the people around you.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's always something that's gonna be added on.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, focus on for today, what are the priorities that we need to focus on that we can we can accomplish in a way that the team is gonna feel bought in and engaged in.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't like that you're taking away my list.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right, I know this guy.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I I'm the kind of guy that has a list, and then if I do something that wasn't on the list, I have to go back and write it on the list so I can cross it off and say I got it done, right?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's my uh that that's my uh you know, OCD, I guess, in controlling those things.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so a few minutes we got left.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um for me it's it's it's setting a limit.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: So how do we set a limit as a leader to uh the the accomplishments that people need to have and but not lower the standards, right?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: We have we want to achieve, we want to push.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, I coach a lot of leaders who are very achievement-oriented and and with great vision on where they want to see their companies go, where they want to see themselves go.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love the entrepreneurs who really have a drive and a and a desire to achieve, and I want to help them get there.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: But there also has to be a limit to what we do without lowering the standards that we have to have.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, I go back to conversations.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Do we have the conversations that we need to have with people so that we set expectations, very, very clear expectations?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do we do things that are I don't I don't want to be I don't want to do things that are reasonable because that's sort of the status quo.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do things that are unreasonable because that's way beyond what people can accomplish.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: What's the middle ground for me is beyond reasonable.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: So how do I push beyond reasonable?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Reasonable is we can we can increase from five of these uh every week to seven of these, whatever we're building or whatever we're making.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's reasonable.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, anybody can do that.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Unreasonable is we go from five to fifteen in a week.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a lot.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's gonna stress people out, that's gonna burn them out.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: What if we went to ten?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's beyond what we consider reasonable.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Seven's reasonable?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Ten's beyond reasonable, fifteen is unreasonable.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think those are the conversations that we have so that people have a better understanding and a better sort of control on where they're going.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think one of the best ways for that would be learn to optimize the system, right?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then have clarity of what winning for your team looks like, fix the processes that are broken, right?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and really just eliminate things that are useless, that are not working, and really with your team, work through that.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'll give one quick example.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in one of my years, we were heading into the December holiday, which was a very busy time, and we had a very low amount of staff, and we said, Hey, we don't want to hire any more.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Are you guys all okay with just let's just work these last next three weeks, just us?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: We'll kill it, we'll make a ton of money for the business, and we'll after that we'll go back to normal.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone said, Yes, it was great.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was the worst decision I've ever made in my life.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: We all suffered.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: I walked in multiple, I'm not kidding.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: I walked in one day, we were dying so bad.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: There was a grown man, one of our employees, sitting in the corner crying because of how bad it was.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I promise you, after that, we never did that again.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: We tried something, it didn't work.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: I saved a ton of payroll, yay.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I made my me and my team suffer.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's those things, it's working together.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: The good thing is I didn't force that on us.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: We collectively tried that out.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: But we collectively said we will never do this again, right?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like you can do that together and optimize those systems.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great example.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: A great example of how even as accomplished leaders that we think we are, our failures certainly have uh taught us a lot.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Taught us a lot, that's for sure.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, thanks for joining us for Break the Leadership Script.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next week.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Take care.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Have a good one.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's your 17 minutes and your challenge.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Don't just agree, apply it.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Leadership doesn't change with ideas, it changes with action.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Take one insight and use it this week.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you or your organization are operating on an outdated script, is it working or is it just a made?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's all people working for example to contact me at work the leadership script at gmail.com.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's why the leadership script at gmail.com.