Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Did The Bitcoin Treasury bubble just collapse?| EP 1446

Transcript

Did The Bitcoin Treasury bubble just collapse?| EP 1446 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:01
  Are we seeing the beginning of the Bitcoin treasury bubble
• 0:04
  collapse? Everyone focusing on Michael
• 0:07
  Saylor's 100th Bitcoin buy, but they're ignoring the Bitcoin
• 0:12
  treasury company that just liquidated 100% of their Bitcoin
• 0:16
  holdings. Now we know that MicroStrategy
• 0:19
  is safe, or at least most likely safe, but what would happen to
• 0:24
  the price of Bitcoin if we continue to see more companies
• 0:28
  dumping their entire Bitcoin treasury?
• 0:32
  Now, I know, I know you, you guys are probably in the chat
• 0:36
  saying we're fighting. But hey, we've been talking
• 0:38
  about this for a minute. And if you're looking at the
• 0:40
  Bitcoin treasury stock prices, a lot of them are not doing very
• 0:44
  well. Now, Nico and I have been saying
• 0:47
  on the show, most likely micro strategy and maybe one or two
• 0:54
  other ones are going to be going to be, you know, flying high,
• 0:56
  they're going to be good to go. But a lot of the smaller ones, I
• 1:00
  don't know if they're in trouble yet, but we are starting to see
• 1:03
  some worrying signs. So I will start with, of course,
• 1:06
  Michael Saylor. Michael Saylor did do his 100th
• 1:10
  buy for MicroStrategy. They acquired 592 Bitcoin for
• 1:14
  roughly 3 three $39.8 million at 67,286 per Bitcoin and now they
• 1:23
  have about 717,722 Bitcoin. So they are lowering their you
• 1:30
  know cost per Bitcoin. Obviously they're buying the dip
• 1:34
  They're they're essentially doing ADCA strategy here every
• 1:37
  week. We know sailors said, hey, we're
• 1:39
  going to be buying Bitcoin every week most likely every quarter
• 1:42
  forever. So Sailor and of course we did
• 1:45
  play the clips last week where sailors saying, look, we're
• 1:49
  pretty much good to go. We're we're going to be able to,
• 1:52
  you know, survive for an extended period of time, even if
• 1:55
  Bitcoin got to a ridiculous 8K price.
• 1:58
  So Sailor is good to go. We're not here to fund
• 2:01
  MicroStrategy or Michael Saylor. It's really about talking about
• 2:04
  everyone outside of the, you know, Sailor camp here.
• 2:07
  There is a lot of Bitcoin treasury companies.
• 2:09
  Now, of course, we covered this last year that it seemed like
• 2:13
  the Bitcoin hype was shifted into the Bitcoin treasury hype.
• 2:17
  And now we're starting to see that it it is, or I mean, the
• 2:21
  Bitcoin treasury bubble probably popped a while ago, but now
• 2:24
  we're starting to see that a lot of them are getting in trouble.
• 2:27
  Now, what am I talking about here?
• 2:29
  So it's not the big Bitcoin treasury companies, you know,
• 2:33
  the pure Bitcoin treasury company plays, but we did see
• 2:37
  bit Deer liquidate its entire Bitcoin treasury.
• 2:41
  Now you're probably like, OK, you know, they're a Bitcoin
• 2:44
  mining company. But again, all the rage was
• 2:47
  Bitcoin treasury companies, people adding Bitcoin to their
• 2:50
  balance sheet and they just liquidated in the last month or
• 2:53
  so about 1500 coins and they finally dumped about 1000 coins
• 2:58
  over the weekend. So here we go.
• 3:00
  Bit Dear liquidates entire Bitcoin treasury.
• 3:02
  The miner has sold 100% of its corporate Bitcoin holdings.
• 3:06
  943.1 Bitcoin from reserves sold.
• 3:09
  This was the final batch and they even sold the 189.8 Bitcoin
• 3:15
  that was newly mined. They're officially at 0 Bitcoin
• 3:19
  holdings now. They are saying that the
• 3:22
  proceeds are being redirected and that they're trying to just,
• 3:26
  you know, beef up their their liquidity here.
• 3:29
  So you can see the chart. They've been selling a lot of
• 3:32
  Bitcoin. They had a, you know, a high of
• 3:34
  Bitcoin and in the last couple of months they have completely
• 3:38
  sold out of all of their Bitcoin just completely to 0.
• 3:41
  Now their official response here is or actually let's let's go to
• 3:46
  this headline. This one's a little more
• 3:48
  interesting. I think it says a little more
• 3:50
  this from Coinbase and it goes bit dear sold all its Bitcoin to
• 3:53
  fund its move into AI data centers.
• 3:55
  So we've been seeing this, a lot of Bitcoin miners have been
• 3:58
  pivoting into the AI space and you're starting to ask yourself
• 4:03
  why. Obviously, as we've been seeing,
• 4:05
  the hash rate has been down, the hash price has been going up.
• 4:09
  It wasn't, it was tough for Bitcoin miners for the last
• 4:13
  couple of months, but now it seemed to have cooled down a
• 4:15
  little bit. And here they are.
• 4:17
  They're liquidating their entire holdings so that they have
• 4:19
  liquidity to acquire some land. Now here is the official
• 4:24
  response from Bitgear and they're they're spinning this a
• 4:27
  little more positively and they go our decision to sell Bitcoin
• 4:30
  should not be concerned for the broader market.
• 4:33
  We are currently evaluating multiple non binding powered
• 4:36
  land acquisition opportunities as a coin to this article said
• 4:39
  for you know, AI basically and we believe it is prudent to
• 4:43
  prepare liquidity. Now, our hash rate will continue
• 4:46
  to grow and we will continue to mine more Bitcoin for the
• 4:49
  interest of our shareholders. Now, if you're looking at what
• 4:53
  happened over the weekend, you might want to attribute the
• 4:56
  Bitcoin dump we saw to 64 K because of bit deer dumping
• 5:00
  their Bitcoin. Now, I don't think that that was
• 5:02
  the case. I think it's probably more to do
• 5:05
  with the whole tariff stuff going on right now.
• 5:08
  Of course, on Friday we covered the news or I, I slightly
• 5:12
  covered the news in the culture that the Trump tariffs were
• 5:16
  knocked down from the Supreme Court.
• 5:18
  They basically said, hey, this is illegal.
• 5:21
  And then literally right when I got off the show, I saw Donald
• 5:24
  Trump basically say like, it doesn't matter what the Supreme
• 5:26
  Court said. We are doing tariffs anyways.
• 5:29
  And then over the weekend we saw that now there's a across the
• 5:32
  board 10 and potentially 15% tariffs on every country right
• 5:37
  now. So Trump is using other means
• 5:39
  for the tariffs. And I think that's probably what
• 5:41
  caused this Bitcoin price to dump, though.
• 5:44
  It literally happened at like 10:00 last night.
• 5:46
  On Sunday, I had a friend text me.
• 5:48
  He's like, yo, the Bitcoin price dump.
• 5:50
  I just responded with Lowell because, you know, at this point
• 5:53
  it's either you, you laugh or you cry.
• 5:55
  Now to add, you know, a little more wrinkles to this and to
• 6:00
  prove that this isn't just an isolated event from bit dear, I
• 6:04
  have this tweet right here. Rather this chart right here by
• 6:09
  Charles Edwards, who has been very big on the idea that the
• 6:12
  reason Bitcoin price is down is because of quantum computing
• 6:16
  concerns. But he did drop this chart and
• 6:18
  he goes a new first consecutive weeks of first time digital
• 6:22
  asset treasury sells. Is the Bitcoin treasury model
• 6:26
  unwinding? And you can see here is this
• 6:29
  weekly. Yeah, weekly.
• 6:31
  So three weeks in a row that we've seen Bitcoin treasury
• 6:36
  companies selling Bitcoin. This is the first time we've
• 6:39
  seen that. So with the price going down
• 6:42
  with the current, you know, price action, with a lot of
• 6:45
  uncertainty in the markets and the broader markets,
• 6:47
  geopolitical markets at large, you are starting to see a lot of
• 6:51
  pressure on these Bitcoin treasury companies, these
• 6:54
  companies that maybe took a lot of debt to get Bitcoin.
• 6:58
  Now we, we might be seeing more of a trend, we might see this
• 7:01
  trend continue. Now to really, you know, put
• 7:04
  this in context here I am on Bitcoin treasuries and of course
• 7:09
  we, we've been talking about this for a while.
• 7:11
  The Bitcoin treasuries, or rather the public companies,
• 7:14
  Bitcoin treasuries, they hold over a million Bitcoin.
• 7:17
  Now there is the public companies withhold about 300,000
• 7:21
  Bitcoin. So that's a total of about, you
• 7:23
  know, almost 1.5 million Bitcoin that are sitting in Bitcoin
• 7:27
  treasury companies. That's where this is starting to
• 7:31
  get really big and concerning guys.
• 7:33
  And obviously that total 1.5 million Bitcoin isn't going to
• 7:38
  get liquidated tomorrow. But if we do start to see the
• 7:42
  price action get lower, continue to go sideways for who knows how
• 7:46
  long, A lot of the companies that probably aren't managed the
• 7:49
  best, they don't have a, you know, rocket scientist behind
• 7:52
  them manufacturing some financial engineering here.
• 7:55
  There could potentially be more Bitcoin selling on the horizon.
• 8:00
  And as we've been covering for the last couple of months, you
• 8:03
  know, we can we can attribute the Bitcoin drops to a lot of
• 8:06
  stuff there's been a lot of speculations about.
• 8:09
  It's Binance selling a billion coins instead of buying a
• 8:12
  billion coins. There's a lot of OG selling
• 8:15
  Bitcoin for the last year and a half.
• 8:18
  If we get in more hot water here and now, a lot of these Bitcoin
• 8:22
  treasuries are going to have to dump, you know, potentially
• 8:25
  their entire holdings here like bit deer did.
• 8:29
  That's 1.5 million Bitcoin that's going to hit the hit, you
• 8:33
  know, the exchanges hit the market.
• 8:35
  On the one hand, hey, cheap sets for us distribution of coins.
• 8:40
  Again, this is healthy for bitcoins distribution of people
• 8:44
  holding Bitcoin. But what is that going to do to
• 8:47
  the price if we have to deal with another 1.5 or rather just
• 8:51
  flat 1,000,000 coins being sold being dumped on our heads again,
• 8:55
  guys, we might be in for as Nico was saying, you know, 40K
• 9:00
  Bitcoin price if this actually happens.
• 9:02
  Now I'm again, I'm not spreading FUD and saying, oh, it's going
• 9:07
  to happen. All I'm saying is we are seeing
• 9:10
  a trend of Bitcoin treasury companies needing to sell their
• 9:13
  coins. And if this bit deer scenario,
• 9:16
  this isolated scenario, bit deer is a broader trend of what other
• 9:22
  Bitcoin treasury companies are feeling, feeling like, hey, I
• 9:25
  might need to get into cash. I might need to liquidate my
• 9:28
  holdings. I might not be able to continue
• 9:30
  the strategy, especially when a lot of the Bitcoin treasury
• 9:33
  companies are like 90% down it. It's starting to get bloody out
• 9:37
  there, guys. Now, is this the, you know, the
• 9:40
  final sacrifice we need for the bear or the bull market to
• 9:43
  continue? Is this even Nico said this
• 9:46
  morning, You know, we might be seeing some some bottom signals
• 9:50
  now with these Bitcoin treasuries coming.
• 9:52
  I think we do potentially or rather we will potentially see
• 9:57
  more capitulation here. I know the bit, dear official
• 10:01
  Twitter account. They kind of spun this a little
• 10:03
  more positively like, hey, we're not in trouble, but it it is
• 10:07
  something that is on my radar right now.
• 10:09
  If we if we see more Bitcoin treasury companies sell, then
• 10:13
  hopefully it happens quickly so we can find a bottom quickly and
• 10:17
  not go sideways with all this uncertainty.
• 10:20
  But it does look rather maybe, Nico, maybe this does confirm
• 10:25
  the idea that we've been talking about for a while that the
• 10:29
  Bitcoin price was, for lack of a better term, suppressed because
• 10:33
  all of the capital, all the hype was going into the Bitcoin
• 10:37
  treasury companies. And like we saw in 2017 with the
• 10:41
  ICO booms, they're finally, you know what, they're finally
• 10:46
  interacting with gravity. It's finally coming down and we
• 10:50
  are getting back to reality here.
• 10:52
  Hopefully this happens a lot quicker because then finally we
• 10:56
  bought them and we can continue the game.
• 10:58
  We can continue rising up. We can finally get our our, you
• 11:01
  know, as all of us Bitcoiners always talk about the final
• 11:04
  sacrifice before we can start to run up again.
• 11:07
  But what do you take? What what's your read on this
• 11:10
  bit, dear announcement? Do you, do you think this is PR
• 11:13
  spin or you know, or, or are we seeing a a greater trend for the
• 11:19
  Bitcoin treasury bubble collapsing?
• 11:23
  I mean, dude, look, I, I, I called this, I called this in
• 11:26
  October, right? I told you that as this bear
• 11:29
  market progresses, while you and Walker were like literally
• 11:31
  beating me up, I said guilty. We are going to see a bunch of
• 11:38
  different treasury companies collapse and that's exactly what
• 11:44
  we've seen playing out. Like not only not only has it
• 11:48
  been bit deer, bit Deer's the the, the biggest one, they're
• 11:51
  huge public miner, but also we saw sequins.
• 11:56
  We also saw Nakamoto, I believe sold some Bitcoin as well.
• 12:01
  So in there was a a recent interview with Michael Saylor
• 12:08
  and for the first time ever, he goes out and he tells his
• 12:12
  investors that, hey, look, if you know Bitcoin is below, you
• 12:17
  know our M NAV is below a certain price, we might be put
• 12:20
  in a position where we have to sell Bitcoin, right?
• 12:24
  So you know paper Bitcoin summer is officially over.
• 12:28
  Thank God. Honestly, paper.
• 12:29
  Bitcoin summer is officially over.
• 12:31
  The market is based basically checking out these treasury
• 12:35
  companies and they're coming to a realization that, hey, we
• 12:39
  actually have to become a company, We actually have to
• 12:43
  have cash flow. I was actually having a, a very
• 12:47
  enlightening conversation with Jack Mahler's or Jack Ballers,
• 12:51
  however you want to call them. Big fan of, of just his media
• 12:55
  and his, the products that he's built.
• 12:57
  And he, he has even come to this realization.
• 13:01
  We, we were having a, a like a, you know, a conversation and at
• 13:06
  Plan B, which by the way, we posted on our YouTube, you guys
• 13:09
  should go check it out. And he, he even said, like, look
• 13:12
  like we have 21 has to take a look at, you know, on, on how to
• 13:16
  make, how to build a profitable business.
• 13:18
  It's not just about holding Bitcoin on your balance sheet.
• 13:22
  It's about about actually having the cash flow as a business and
• 13:27
  then using Bitcoin as as a treasury asset, not just the
• 13:33
  company being a treasury asset itself.
• 13:36
  Because it actually doesn't quite it doesn't make sense,
• 13:39
  right? Like if you think about it like,
• 13:43
  OK, let's say you're an institutional investor, or let's
• 13:45
  say you're you're someone who's older and and you don't feel
• 13:48
  comfortable with just buying spot Bitcoin and putting it in
• 13:51
  self custody. I understand that argument, but
• 13:55
  then why not just buy the ETF, right?
• 13:58
  Because if you're just buying the treasury company, you're
• 14:01
  taking additional risk. Like you're not just buying
• 14:04
  exposure to Bitcoin, you're actually betting on the fact
• 14:07
  that management is not going to dilute your shares.
• 14:10
  You're actually betting that management is going to do a good
• 14:13
  job. It's, it's, it's a lot riskier.
• 14:18
  So what is the actual point of buying a treasury company?
• 14:21
  And one of the things that I've noticed on, on I think it was
• 14:23
  Bitcoin treasuries like it, look at the M Navs.
• 14:27
  The craziest M Navs that are like 50X40X are Tesla block.
• 14:35
  Basically what that means is the companies that actually have
• 14:38
  cash flow are significantly higher in their M navs because
• 14:43
  their valuations are significantly higher than the
• 14:45
  Bitcoin that they hold in their treasuries.
• 14:47
  Right? Because the company is being
• 14:50
  valued based on how profitable that company is.
• 14:54
  And you know, a Bitcoin treasury is a part of that equation.
• 14:59
  It's a part of that, of that math, right?
• 15:02
  I think strategy in and of itself, I'm a fan of sailor.
• 15:06
  I think that, you know, buying strategy at $50 a share would be
• 15:14
  a steal. I think buying it under $100
• 15:17
  would be a a, a a great purchase in my opinion.
• 15:21
  You know it it right now it's at what, 125 or?
• 15:23
  Something. Yeah, something like that.
• 15:25
  So I, I, I have, I have all the confidence in the world that
• 15:30
  Strategy 21 and potentially Nakamoto are going to return and
• 15:36
  all their glory when we when we hit the next bull market.
• 15:40
  But what I've been saying for the last couple of months, and
• 15:44
  I've been right and I'm sticking to it, is the fact that, hey,
• 15:49
  the smaller treasury companies that took on riskier debt or
• 15:54
  diluted their shareholders to buy additional Bitcoin, I was
• 15:58
  telling you that those companies were going to find themselves in
• 16:01
  trouble. And one of the largest Bitcoin
• 16:04
  miners in the world, bit dear capitulated and they capitulated
• 16:09
  hard, like hard. And they had PR blowback, by the
• 16:13
  way, they had to go out on Twitter and basically say, hey
• 16:17
  guys, we still believe in Bitcoin 100%, We're still mining
• 16:21
  it. But essentially we've sold all
• 16:24
  our Bitcoin. Like that's not like that's not
• 16:28
  a sign of confidence. And by the way, it's not just
• 16:30
  bit deer doing this. We we saw a post, it was
• 16:34
  actually by pleadator that post. Oh yeah, I have.
• 16:37
  It let me pull that up. That basically you know the
• 16:40
  Winklevi, which I'm also a fan, a fan of, I think Gemini's great
• 16:44
  in terms of the products that they offer.
• 16:46
  The Gemini credit card's pretty cool.
• 16:48
  And basically he's like, I, I've never seen sentiment this bad.
• 16:56
  And then platitor found receipts of basically the the fund that
• 17:00
  the Winklevi have, they've been selling Bitcoin for over a year
• 17:04
  now, right? So it's like you're basically
• 17:06
  saying, I've never seen the sentiment so bad, but
• 17:08
  simultaneously your fund has been selling Bitcoin this entire
• 17:11
  time. That's not a really good sign of
• 17:13
  confidence. But I'm going to weave it back
• 17:16
  in and I'm going to bring all this back in and just tell you
• 17:18
  guys because it has been negative Nancy for, you know,
• 17:21
  the, the beginning part of the show.
• 17:23
  But what I will tell you is that I, I love this.
• 17:27
  I really love this because for the first time in many, many
• 17:32
  years, we're seeing uncertainty in the markets.
• 17:36
  We're seeing doubt creep in. We're seeing.
• 17:39
  Here's a tweet, Nico, here's a tweet.
• 17:42
  Do you want to read it? Yeah, you did.
• 17:44
  You pull it up. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:46
  So Tyler Winklevoss 14 hours ago goes basically saying exactly
• 17:51
  what Nico just said. The sentiment in crypto right
• 17:53
  now is so bad that I'm actually pretty optimistic.
• 17:55
  And then Plederner goes, then why has the Arkham tag
• 17:59
  Winklevoss Capital wallet been selling off Bitcoin non-stop for
• 18:02
  a year, a year straight? And you can see here they had
• 18:06
  about 23 and some change thousand Bitcoin and currently
• 18:11
  have have under 12K, so around 11 K Bitcoin.
• 18:15
  So they sold also 50% of their stack here.
• 18:18
  So it's further proof that this is going around and and people
• 18:22
  are selling Bitcoin even though a lot of the narrative is, hey,
• 18:26
  we're going to be holding this Bitcoin forever.
• 18:28
  So all right, anyways, continue Nico.
• 18:30
  So, yeah, I mean, like, look like fundamentally at the end of
• 18:33
  the day, it's like, don't pay attention to what they say, pay
• 18:37
  attention to what they do. And the reality is that I think
• 18:40
  right now there's like this, this shaking of confidence.
• 18:46
  The shaking of confidence I think comes from the fact that
• 18:52
  Bitcoin didn't perform to the expectations of many this
• 18:58
  previous cycle. Like even Lynn Alden, I saw her,
• 19:01
  I think it was on the What Bitcoin Did podcast where she
• 19:04
  was basically saying something along the lines of like look
• 19:07
  like I had I thought Bitcoin was going to hit at least $150,000
• 19:13
  last cycle and the cycle before that I thought I was going to
• 19:15
  hit at least 100. And the previous cycle 20/21, it
• 19:21
  only hit 69 K and then this previous cycle and only hit 126
• 19:26
  K. So it actually underperformed
• 19:28
  Linalden's expectations, right. So there's this kind of loss of
• 19:34
  confidence in Bitcoin being this alternative to gold.
• 19:38
  Like that's really what's happening here.
• 19:40
  That's the really the main story.
• 19:42
  So you have gold answer this historic parabolic year in 2025
• 19:50
  goes up 60%. It's an asset that's $35
• 19:54
  trillion for. So for it to go up 60%, I mean,
• 19:57
  holy shit, the amount of money that needs to go into this asset
• 20:01
  and it performs amazing. And then silver basically like
• 20:06
  acts like a, a shit coin essentially.
• 20:08
  It's like 2-3 Xing like over a short, a short amount of time.
• 20:12
  Like it's crazy. So like I think like right now
• 20:15
  the digital gold narrative is being called into question like
• 20:19
  that. And that's a reality that a lot
• 20:20
  of people are not. Take into account, but here's
• 20:23
  the thing and perhaps you guys don't remember this from the
• 20:26
  early days of of Bitcoin and and how Bitcoin has functioned.
• 20:34
  This is how Bitcoin normally has been right?
• 20:40
  Like this is what people have forgotten.
• 20:42
  Like this is what people need to remember.
• 20:44
  Like in 2017, the reason that you had such crazy potential in
• 20:51
  terms of gains was because there was so much uncertainty back
• 20:55
  then. Like if I would, if you would
• 20:58
  have told me in the beginning of 2017, which for the price of
• 21:02
  Bitcoin was $1000 at that time, that, you know, in less than 10
• 21:07
  years it was going to essentially 100 X, I wouldn't
• 21:12
  have believed you. I, I, I wouldn't have believed
• 21:14
  you. I would have been like, that's
• 21:15
  crazy. But there was a lot of
• 21:17
  uncertainty back then. BlackRock was our enemy.
• 21:19
  Even Sailor didn't believe in Bitcoin in that era.
• 21:23
  There was no Bitcoin content, right?
• 21:26
  It was like very, very early days.
• 21:28
  It wasn't as early as 2013 or 2014, but there it was still
• 21:32
  early and there's not that much confirmation.
• 21:35
  What I disliked about this epoch, what I, what I would and
• 21:39
  obviously hindsight's 2020, but what I disliked about this epoch
• 21:43
  is that there was so much certainty.
• 21:45
  There was so much certainty. Think about it on Twitter right
• 21:48
  now, there's entire accounts that their whole growing
• 21:51
  strategy and maybe we're a little bit, we have to talk to
• 21:54
  the Twitter team about this, but maybe we're a little bit guilty
• 21:56
  of this themselves. But it's basically like, look
• 21:58
  like Bitcoin's going to hit $1,000,000 guaranteed.
• 22:02
  It's a sure bad 100% like whatever.
• 22:03
  And everyone just smashed like like 2017 that they didn't even
• 22:07
  exist. Like there, there was no Bitcoin
• 22:10
  standard. Like there was no, none of these
• 22:12
  like, like highly intellectual people that have the Iqs of like
• 22:17
  150 basically making these incredible pieces of, of, of,
• 22:22
  of, of like of, of literature of, of just like creating these
• 22:26
  incredible pieces of, of, of just books and writing and stuff
• 22:30
  like that. To, to make the thesis for as to
• 22:33
  why Bitcoin's going to win, None of that existed back then.
• 22:37
  So because there is so much uncertainty, because there was,
• 22:40
  it wasn't a sure thing. It created this asymmetric
• 22:43
  opportunity if you believed in Bitcoin very early on.
• 22:47
  For me, the like the factor that really changed my perspective
• 22:53
  and made me go all in was Andreas lectures.
• 22:56
  When I heard Andreas lectured, I was like, Oh my God, like this
• 23:00
  isn't just about making money. This is like, like we're going
• 23:02
  to win basically. And it was a lot more
• 23:07
  revolutionary back then. It, now it, it, it kind of
• 23:10
  transforms like now it's the financialization of Bitcoin.
• 23:15
  And you know, I, I kind of like what happened because these
• 23:21
  treasury companies are either going to be forced to pivot
• 23:24
  except for strategy because strategy has a different
• 23:27
  strategy, no pun intended. Metaplanet might be good too.
• 23:31
  And metaplanet, but more so strategy.
• 23:36
  Strategy is going to be OK. But you know the the concept of
• 23:41
  just a company buying Bitcoin and being public and then the
• 23:49
  markets assigning value to that, I think that concept is over.
• 23:54
  I think it's done. I think it had its moment over
• 23:57
  the summer. We had our blow off tops in
• 24:00
  Bitcoin in those companies. A lot of the capital that it
• 24:04
  would have otherwise just bought spot Bitcoin went straight into
• 24:09
  these treasury companies and that's what happened over the
• 24:13
  summer. And I think that's part of the
• 24:15
  reason we didn't have this crazy normal parabola.
• 24:18
  And now we have uncertainty back in the markets again.
• 24:22
  And now as we head into the new cycle, which we're beginning,
• 24:26
  we're in the we're congratulations guys.
• 24:28
  This is like the new cycle. You've made it a cycle.
• 24:32
  We're in a new cycle without a doubt.
• 24:34
  Now the question is, how are we going to, you know, where are we
• 24:38
  going to bottom out? That's the big question.
• 24:42
  Are we going to bottom out at, you know, at AT60K?
• 24:46
  Are we going to bottom out at 45?
• 24:48
  Are we going to bottom out at 31?
• 24:50
  Right. That's the big question.
• 24:53
  No one knows, but I am. I, I am pretty confident to say
• 24:57
  that I think we're going to bottom out this year without a
• 24:59
  shadow of a doubt. And I think that, you know, the
• 25:04
  cycle's going to repeat itself. You know, nature's going to
• 25:08
  heal. I think 2020 at the end of 2026
• 25:11
  is going to be a great year. I think the big 2027's going to
• 25:14
  be a great year. I think 2028 is going to be in
• 25:16
  great, a great year and 2029 is going to be an incredible year
• 25:19
  as well. But but basically the cycle's
• 25:21
  just repeating itself and let's see what the you know, let let
• 25:27
  let's see how Bitcoin does it. It my personal opinion is I,
• 25:30
  I'm, I feel incredibly bullish after we get through this kind
• 25:34
  of nature healing itself, because it really did need to
• 25:38
  heal itself. Like a lot of these companies
• 25:40
  were treasure were trading at like 5X5 M NAV, like 10 M NAV.
• 25:45
  I'm not going to name any names, but some of the some of the
• 25:49
  Bitcoin treasury companies and the way that Mauricio, the Co
• 25:52
  founder of lead Leaden described it to me, he was basically like
• 25:56
  Nico, like essentially, if you were buying one of these
• 25:59
  companies and they were trading at 5 * M NAV, you essentially
• 26:03
  could have put that same amount of capital into Bitcoin and you
• 26:06
  would have gotten five times as much Bitcoin then if you just
• 26:10
  bought these companies trading at 5 M NAV like it was.
• 26:14
  We did have a mania phase. It just didn't happen happen in
• 26:18
  spot Bitcoin. It happened in like, you know,
• 26:21
  in the traditional financial markets and these Bitcoin
• 26:24
  proxies, so to speak, in these paper Bitcoin vehicles, so to
• 26:29
  speak. I know that could be
• 26:30
  controversial to say that, but anyway, always.
• 26:33
  Wait, wait, can we? I also have a theory as well, a
• 26:36
  very interesting theory. And we're right more we're more
• 26:41
  right often than we are wrong. OK, so no, that's not true.
• 26:45
  I'm. Trolling.
• 26:46
  I'm trolling. I'm trolling.
• 26:47
  Dude. We're we're trolling.
• 26:48
  We're more right than we are wrong, but I'm going to, I'm
• 26:51
  going to tell you guys this theory.
• 26:52
  I've. I've been thinking about this
• 26:55
  over the weekend. I want to, I want to get your
• 26:56
  guys this thoughts. So in 2021 the bull market got
• 27:01
  cut short. We essentially we didn't go as
• 27:07
  high as we normally would. And the reason, the primary
• 27:12
  reason for that, and I know people disagree with this, but
• 27:15
  they can shut up because I know I'm right on this.
• 27:17
  The correlation is just too strong.
• 27:20
  But basically the 2021 bull market, it was cut short because
• 27:25
  of the China mining man. You literally saw Bitcoin had
• 27:28
  this double top. And in between the double top,
• 27:31
  you saw a direct correlation between the hash rate and the
• 27:34
  price of Bitcoin, right? This cycle, we didn't really
• 27:40
  have a top. We had this like like this top
• 27:43
  on apathy. But it was strange because
• 27:46
  instead of Bitcoin going parabolic, you saw gold go
• 27:50
  parabolic in the meantime. And before that we basically
• 27:55
  gold went sideways for like, what was it like 10 years, 10-15
• 28:00
  years before that happened? So like in my mind, I'm thinking
• 28:06
  like, if you're a government and you don't want people to use a
• 28:10
  non sovereign alternative to your local Fiat currency, what
• 28:15
  would you need to do? The primary thing that you would
• 28:20
  need to do is for the Bitcoin price not to go up.
• 28:24
  Like when we had these leaks coming out of these European
• 28:28
  politicians when they're talking about the Mika laws and like
• 28:31
  whatever, like some of their, their communications, like what
• 28:35
  they would say is basically like we, we, we, we have to do
• 28:38
  something about the price. We have to do something about
• 28:40
  the price. So think about this for a
• 28:42
  second. What is one of the best ways for
• 28:47
  people to lose confidence in Bitcoin?
• 28:50
  In 2021, it was basically the Chinese government canceling or
• 28:59
  basically banning all those Bitcoin miners.
• 29:02
  We didn't get a normal parabolic.
• 29:06
  We're on. We got a blow off top.
• 29:07
  I would call it a mute off top, a muted top.
• 29:11
  And then in 2025, instead of Bitcoin having a parabolic year,
• 29:17
  it was gold. And you know who controls all
• 29:21
  the gold in the world? Banks and central and
• 29:25
  governments. So like I I'm not trying to be a
• 29:29
  conspiracy theorist here, but. No, no, it's actually I, I
• 29:33
  wanted to explore that idea in the culture.
• 29:35
  I I have some good tweaks on this, so we'll continue the
• 29:37
  combo. But yeah, keep going.
• 29:38
  It it, it's, it's, it's surely convenient is what I'm trying to
• 29:42
  say that in the two years that's that Bitcoin was meant to go
• 29:46
  parabolic as in 2017. And the parabolas are really
• 29:51
  what drives the crazy adoption. You have the China mining ban in
• 29:55
  2021, and in 2025, instead of Bitcoin going parabolic, you
• 30:01
  have gold being going parabolic. And conveniently, you know who
• 30:05
  controls gold? Governments do, right?
• 30:08
  So it's like, and you know what, what, what one of the biggest
• 30:12
  narrative killers of Bitcoin succeeding would be because
• 30:16
  again, this is what Michael Saylor was saying for so many
• 30:18
  years. He's saying the US government
• 30:20
  should sell all that gold and buy Bitcoin because gold is
• 30:24
  essentially this dead metal. And then the year that Bitcoin
• 30:27
  is supposed to go parabolic, gold goes up 60%.
• 30:31
  How convenient, right? So it could be, again, there's
• 30:36
  no confirmation of this, but I don't have any shame like I used
• 30:40
  to when I used to have like connect the the dots the way
• 30:44
  that I have because we've been more, we've been right so much
• 30:49
  more than we've been wrong over the years.
• 30:51
  You know, bringing you tomorrow's Bitcoin news today
• 30:54
  here at Simply Bitcoin. Could this be a sabotage by
• 30:59
  central banks to basically psyop people into losing faith in
• 31:06
  Bitcoin by essentially finally allowing the the gold price to
• 31:12
  run? Because we all know that gold
• 31:16
  essentially has been suppressed by the paper gold mechanism for
• 31:21
  a very long time now. We've, I've had Caitlin Long
• 31:24
  come on the show to talk about this.
• 31:26
  I've had Larry Leopard come on the show to talk about this and
• 31:29
  it's like an open, it's an open secret that, you know, paper
• 31:33
  gold should be a lot more expensive, but because of the
• 31:37
  paper gold in the market, it's not.
• 31:40
  Could it be that the year 2025 governments are like, listen, we
• 31:44
  can't stop this Bitcoin thing. So what we're going to do is
• 31:47
  we're going to let gold run. We control gold anyways.
• 31:51
  We have total control over the custody of gold.
• 31:54
  Most of the gold is in our vaults, right?
• 31:57
  Let's just let gold run. Allegedly.
• 32:00
  Let's just let gold run. We can't have this non sovereign
• 32:03
  alternative of which the majority is held by individuals
• 32:08
  continue to go parabolic because that's just going to lead to
• 32:11
  more adoption of this and more adoption of Bitcoin means less
• 32:16
  control for governments. It that like again, that I, I, I
• 32:22
  wouldn't, this is completely speculative.
• 32:25
  I have no evidence of that. But again, the incentives do
• 32:30
  line up. They do line up.
• 32:33
  You can't, you can't question that.
• 32:34
  And then you you put in, you weave this in the civil war that
• 32:40
  is happening between the Federal Reserve and Donald John Trump,
• 32:47
  right? President Trump, like we're
• 32:49
  basically they're, they're artificially keeping the
• 32:52
  interest rates high, basically making the argument it's like,
• 32:55
  oh, no, inflation is running too hot, while simultaneously, you
• 33:00
  know, they, they, they were very easy in terms of their monetary
• 33:03
  policy when the previous administration was in power,
• 33:06
  right? So again, I, I, I think that
• 33:10
  there could be something bigger at play here that is trying to
• 33:14
  stop the adoption of Bitcoin and the inclusion of Bitcoin in the
• 33:19
  traditional financial system. And the one of the best ways to
• 33:22
  stop Bitcoin is for number not to go up.
• 33:26
  If number doesn't go up, I'm telling you guys that that is
• 33:29
  the most important feature of Bitcoin is number going up.
• 33:32
  Like, yeah, the sovereignty is. Good.
• 33:35
  The self custody is good. All of that is good.
• 33:37
  Like make no mistake. But like the absolute scarcity
• 33:42
  narrative, no one gives a flying fuck about that narrative unless
• 33:45
  number goes up, right? Like the success of Bitcoin is
• 33:48
  binary. Michael say, Michael Saylor said
• 33:51
  it the other day. This thing either goes to 0 or
• 33:53
  it goes to a million. It doesn't just go sideways
• 33:56
  ways. Like if Bitcoin can't even beat
• 33:59
  the S&P 500, if Bitcoin can't even beat the price appreciation
• 34:05
  of gold, then what the hell are we all doing here, right?
• 34:09
  Like, that's the, that's the blunt, honest truth, right?
• 34:12
  So I think there could be some dark forces at play that are
• 34:18
  trying to basically stop the adoption of Bitcoin by
• 34:21
  suppressing the price of Bitcoin.
• 34:23
  What the hell do I know, That's just the theory I have.
• 34:29
  Q Alex Jones with the tinfoil hat on now, I I kind of agree.
• 34:34
  Look, I, I've said it before and, and the chat never really
• 34:37
  likes this when I say it, but I, I completely agree with Nico on
• 34:42
  the fact that like you may like other reasons about Bitcoin, but
• 34:46
  the most important thing to get people to adopt Bitcoin is
• 34:50
  number go up. That's that's just how it is.
• 34:53
  Look, all the other features that we love about Bitcoin are
• 34:56
  all great, but without number going up, people don't find a
• 35:01
  reason to get into Bitcoin and without number go up.
• 35:05
  That is, This is why no one's here now.
• 35:09
  Who'd you say? You say say Sailor said that
• 35:11
  about gold. Because I, I'm, I'm being
• 35:13
  reminded that even safety had said this a long time ago.
• 35:16
  He's like, the only thing that could really stop Bitcoin is if
• 35:20
  the world went back on a gold standard.
• 35:23
  He said that years ago. But when I interviewed him in
• 35:26
  Lugano, he said that, yeah, that was one of the things he said.
• 35:29
  He said the world going back on a gold standard and how
• 35:32
  convenient the day, the the year that Bitcoin is supposed to go
• 35:36
  parabolic all of a sudden, like gold wakes up from a slumber and
• 35:41
  you know it. It has this amazing performance
• 35:44
  like how convenient bro, what a coincidence.
• 35:47
  Oh my God, right. I, I think, I think guys like I,
• 35:52
  I think people forget what's at stake here and like we're really
• 35:57
  playing for all the marbles here, ladies and gentlemen.
• 36:00
  Like this is about control over the money.
• 36:03
  You control money, you control the world.
• 36:05
  Like this rabbit hole is deep. Like, I mean, the world wars,
• 36:10
  the, the, the, is it over, boys? No, I don't think so.
• 36:13
  And if it is, if it is like if it is, I'm gonna stick to.
• 36:16
  Hey, if it is, at least we tried right if it.
• 36:18
  Is like, it's not over. It's not over.
• 36:20
  I'm gonna, I'm gonna stick with it through the very end, like
• 36:23
  I'm gonna stick with this thing. I, I truly believe in Bitcoin.
• 36:26
  I truly believe in the properties of Bitcoin.
• 36:29
  But like once we start getting to the final levels and make no
• 36:32
  mistake, we are in the final levels like we are, we are very
• 36:36
  close to, you know, winning this game.
• 36:42
  I think they're going to pull out all the stops.
• 36:44
  And this could totally be one of the things that they're doing to
• 36:48
  shake your confidence in this thing, right?
• 36:50
  Because ultimately, that's what it's about.
• 36:52
  Like this is about shaking your confidence.
• 36:55
  And I think this bear market's going to be especially brutal
• 36:59
  because even in the 2018 and 2019 bear markets, we still knew
• 37:05
  that Bitcoin was going to recover.
• 37:07
  Like we knew that Bitcoin was going to RIP eventually this
• 37:13
  bear market. People are questioning like we
• 37:17
  had, I don't want to mention, I don't want to mention who he is,
• 37:20
  but like we had someone that even works for us was basically
• 37:24
  like, man, there's, there's things over the next 10 years
• 37:27
  that could potentially outperform Bitcoin, right?
• 37:32
  You know, like even even like, you know, kind of internally
• 37:35
  like we're, we're starting to see that doubt and and and.
• 37:39
  Bottom signals. I was saying bottom signals that
• 37:42
  doubt. Creep in.
• 37:43
  So, you know, like I, I would say, listen, guys, hold strong.
• 37:47
  Remember the remember the conviction that you have
• 37:50
  remember why you are here. I, I think we're going to win.
• 37:55
  I think Bitcoin has the best characteristics.
• 37:57
  It's, it's backed by, you know, the largest decentralized node
• 38:01
  network in the world. It's backed by the largest
• 38:04
  decentralized computing network in the world that's actively
• 38:07
  mining it on a 24/7 basis. And again, nothing has absolute
• 38:15
  scarcity the way that Bitcoin has absolute scarcity.
• 38:18
  You can, you know, store it on a 12 word, 24 word seed phrase.
• 38:22
  It's incredibly easy to store. You know, all the, all the
• 38:26
  arguments are there. So I think it's just a matter of
• 38:31
  the huddle, the huddle. Baby, are you, are you huddling?
• 38:35
  I'm huddling. Are you huddling?
• 38:37
  Are you huddling? Let us know in the chat if
• 38:39
  you're huddling or, or you, you got shaken out of your bags.
• 38:44
  Like some of these companies are being shaken out of their bags.
• 38:47
  Right. Anyway, seems like the Rumble
• 38:49
  chat is, is popping off. Shout out to all of you guys on
• 38:53
  Rumble. Someone actually gave me nice
• 38:56
  thing Nico right on on the nail head.
• 38:58
  Love it. Nico the violin player on the
• 39:01
  Titanic. That's hilarious.
• 39:05
  You go Nico Nico's Bitcoin being controlled potentially could be
• 39:09
  being controlled. I don't know That's a that's a
• 39:11
  good question, my friend. But anyhoo guys, it's going to
• 39:17
  be a great show. Someone said I sold at 115.
• 39:22
  Smart move bro. Hindsight's 2020 Love you Nico.
• 39:26
  Hang in there. It's going to be OK someday
• 39:29
  maybe. Anyways, guys, it's going to be
• 39:31
  a great show. Nico's a fan of Sailor?
• 39:33
  Since when? I've always been a fan of
• 39:34
  Sailor. I just think that, you know, he,
• 39:36
  he has, you know, he's running a public company and he wants his
• 39:39
  stock to go up. But at the end of the day, you
• 39:42
  know, I'm, I'm also a fan of Coinbase cause Coinbase has been
• 39:45
  one of the biggest lobby lobby. They, they've sunk in a ton of
• 39:50
  money into lobbying pro Bitcoin policies in Washington, DC.
• 39:54
  So you don't need to have, you don't need to be completely
• 39:57
  aligned with a lot of these entities to, to, to be fans of
• 40:03
  them. There's, there's things that I
• 40:05
  dislike that, that, you know, the traditional, how traditional
• 40:08
  finance treats Bitcoin. There's things that I dislike
• 40:11
  about the altcoin casino industry.
• 40:14
  But there's things that I like about traditional finance and
• 40:17
  there's things that I like about Coinbase.
• 40:20
  Anyways, guys, it's going to be a great show.
• 40:22
  We have tons to cover today. I want to let you know I, I
• 40:25
  want, I want to hear your guys thoughts about my theory.
• 40:27
  We're going to talk about more about it during the culture
• 40:30
  segment with Opti and it's going to be a great show.
• 40:33
  I got some videos, got lot lined up.
• 40:35
  Larry Leopard, he's got some bull juice for you guys.
• 40:39
  And then we got a critique of Bitcoin.
• 40:41
  And the critique of Bitcoin is coming from actually someone
• 40:44
  who's a famous movie star and they come from a huge YouTube
• 40:49
  channel. And the reason I want to play
• 40:51
  you guys this critique is because the midterms are coming
• 40:53
  up. And I think that a lot of a lot
• 40:56
  of people have forgotten that, you know, that, that we were in
• 41:01
  a hostile political environment almost two years ago with the
• 41:09
  previous administration. And I, I, I want to remind all
• 41:12
  of you guys that the members of that political party have not
• 41:17
  changed their stance. In fact, the Clarity Act right
• 41:21
  now has a 43 percent chance of passing.
• 41:25
  I also called that. Got to take credit for that as
• 41:28
  well. So yeah, guys, it's going to be
• 41:31
  a great show. Also, we got Bram.
• 41:33
  We got Bram joining us on the show.
• 41:35
  We're going to let him up on the show.
• 41:36
  We're going to let him up in a little bit.
• 41:38
  So guys, it's going to be a great show.
• 41:39
  One or two. You guys want to.
• 41:41
  What's wrong with me? Dude just hit the ad.
• 41:45
  You guys are going to want to stay tuned in, smash that like
• 41:47
  button and consider subscribing and we're going to be right back
• 41:50
  in just a little bit. Today's episode is brought to
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  you by Bitcoin Well Infinite. If you're a serious Bitcoin
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  anything on the store. Bram, thank you so much for
• 44:16
  joining us. At the time of recording the
• 44:18
  Bitcoin price is 64,797 seven 60 sixty $4970.
• 44:25
  I don't know what was wrong with me today.
• 44:26
  Sats per dollar 1539 block height 938,005 Realized monetary
• 44:32
  inflation .84% market cap 1.3 trillion Bitcoin versus gold
• 44:36
  market cap 4.34% percentage. Just remember when we celebrate
• 44:40
  it got to 10% gold. Just took us to school, bro.
• 44:44
  Percentage issued 95.2% decline from all time high.
• 44:48
  If you're buying Bitcoin right now, you're getting it at a 50%
• 44:51
  discount. 50% discount. That's a pretty good discount.
• 44:55
  Anyways, before I get Bram's thoughts, I have this clip of
• 44:59
  Larry Leppard. Larry Leppard had some thoughts
• 45:02
  regarding where Bitcoin could go on its next wave, what those
• 45:06
  price targets could be. Let's check out the clip and
• 45:09
  then we'll talk about it. Few people understand is how
• 45:13
  when this thing does hit, when this next wave does hit, it's
• 45:16
  not going to 140, guys. It's going to 250 or 300 or 350.
• 45:21
  I mean, because there will be so much, you know, there'll be two
• 45:24
  things happening. There'll be all the shorts who
• 45:26
  have to cover or else they're going to get the faces ripped
• 45:29
  off. And then it'll be a whole new
• 45:30
  category of long D Jens will come in and he'll lever it and
• 45:33
  go along it. Right.
• 45:34
  And that's that's what will shove it to 400 and then from
• 45:37
  400 by the way, it'll correct back to 150.
• 45:40
  But I mean, it's, it's the nature of a speculative, you
• 45:43
  know, asset that's being adopted.
• 45:46
  You know, this is, and if you go look at a very long term price
• 45:49
  turn of Amazon, which is a similar network based business,
• 45:53
  it had multiple, you know, one had 190% correction, had
• 45:56
  multiple 6070 out of 4050% corrections.
• 45:59
  I mean, either it's going to take over the world or it's
• 46:01
  going to die. And right now bitcoins in the,
• 46:03
  you know, right now we're kind of hearing it's not.
• 46:06
  I mean, I just saw a tweet this morning from a gold guy.
• 46:09
  Well, not really looking like digital gold, is it?
• 46:11
  And I was just calling you wait, OK, You know, just just wait,
• 46:16
  you just you just relax. You know, it's it's not a
• 46:19
  straight line, but you know, I I'll take the other side of that
• 46:22
  bat in two years. We'll see who looks right.
• 46:24
  So all right, everybody, we got Bram in the house host of the
• 46:29
  Bitcoin for millennials podcast. Bram, welcome to the show.
• 46:33
  I want to get your thoughts. Is Larry Leopard being overly
• 46:36
  bullish, overly optimistic, Bram?
• 46:39
  I see. Yeah, Thanks guys.
• 46:41
  I'm happy to be here. I see a comment on the screams
• 46:43
  screen saying this. This is hopium.
• 46:47
  I, I think for the people that have been in Bitcoin for a
• 46:51
  longer time, this, this ain't nothing new, right?
• 46:54
  I think the, the bearish people, the people with all the anti
• 46:59
  Bitcoin takes coming out of the woodwork when you know, the,
• 47:04
  the, the price goes down. These are all people that have a
• 47:09
  high time preference in their life.
• 47:11
  They think everything goes up in a straight line.
• 47:14
  They think because they didn't study, but they hear us talk
• 47:17
  about Bitcoin, you know, that that we are moon math boys or or
• 47:22
  whatever. But I think the deeper
• 47:24
  understanding here and that is what Larry was also alluding to,
• 47:28
  right? This is the monetization of a
• 47:31
  totally new asset, monetary asset, but also an asset of
• 47:36
  which its characteristics have never existed before.
• 47:41
  So I've always said, you know, price is a proxy of
• 47:45
  understanding of a certain amount of, of people of Bitcoin.
• 47:50
  And I think that is what we're seeing.
• 47:52
  I think you guys probably also talk about manipulation and
• 47:56
  whatnot. I, I, I, I think manipulation is
• 47:59
  done by people that actually understand it.
• 48:01
  But in general, all the people that they're coming out of the
• 48:04
  woodwork with all their, their anti takes, you know, I think
• 48:08
  it's a joke by now. It's intellectually lazy to
• 48:11
  never question what is money, to never dive into Bitcoin and then
• 48:15
  the price goes down. You, you think you are dancing
• 48:19
  on someone else's grave basically.
• 48:21
  But I, I posted this today, you know, if Bitcoin goes down 30%,
• 48:26
  all the people that understand it are happy.
• 48:30
  They're happy. They know that they have the
• 48:32
  possibility to buy it at lower prices.
• 48:34
  If the S&P 500 goes down with, I don't know, 7%, you know, Tratfi
• 48:41
  is in meltdown. The, you know, mainstream media
• 48:44
  is in meltdown, like, Oh my God, what is happening, etcetera.
• 48:47
  And I think fundamental understanding of Bitcoin is the
• 48:52
  most important task you have. If you are insecure about your
• 48:57
  future, if you don't want a CBDC, if you don't want other
• 49:01
  people to control the value of your time and energy, so you
• 49:04
  need to do the work. Literally the understanding.
• 49:06
  Proof of work takes proof of work.
• 49:08
  So I don't think Larry's bullish.
• 49:10
  I just think we are extremely early.
• 49:14
  We have a lot of foresight and that sounds like amazing cope,
• 49:18
  but I still think the world is crazy.
• 49:21
  So let's talk about that, right? I guess I.
• 49:23
  Keep like that. Yeah, that was I love amazing
• 49:26
  cope. So we keep we, we keep hearing
• 49:28
  that right, which is we're, we're extremely early to Bitcoin
• 49:32
  Opti, I want to get your thoughts on that.
• 49:34
  Do you think we're still early to Bitcoin?
• 49:36
  I honestly do. I know I get yelled at
• 49:39
  constantly when I say this. Everyone's like how we early to
• 49:42
  Bitcoin. Bitcoin's at 100K and I, I just
• 49:45
  use this simple, this simple heuristic.
• 49:47
  It's like go talk to average people.
• 49:49
  They either think you're an idiot still or they think
• 49:51
  Bitcoin is a dumb idea. And we've gotten this far to
• 49:56
  100K and like you talk to normal people, most people don't hold
• 50:00
  Bitcoin. But I mean, OK, but hold on.
• 50:04
  OK, Yeah, hold on a second. I agree.
• 50:07
  Central banks don't even know what they are buying.
• 50:09
  Bitcoin, guys. All right, sorry.
• 50:11
  You're better buying gold. Why they're buying?
• 50:13
  Gold, I I, I agree in terms of the overall grand scheme of
• 50:17
  things that we're early to Bitcoin in that.
• 50:19
  Bro .02% of world capitals in Bitcoin.
• 50:22
  You're telling me we're not early?
• 50:24
  I don't know man, I don't. It depends on your definition of
• 50:28
  early. That's what I'm saying though.
• 50:31
  Depends on your definition of early.
• 50:32
  I would say depends on your. Definition, dude.
• 50:34
  Niko. Niko's such a bear.
• 50:36
  I, I, dude, I I have to, I have to.
• 50:39
  Level it out here 'cause if you and Walker had your way, bro, on
• 50:42
  the October show, bro, we got to be bull tarted always.
• 50:46
  I don't care if I'm wrong, I'm going to be right, you know?
• 50:49
  I may not be right right now, but I am right.
• 50:52
  The bottom is marked when opti, when opti starts crying and and
• 50:56
  capitulates. Not going to happen.
• 50:59
  It's optimist for a reason bro. Even if you tell me it's going
• 51:02
  to zero, I'm like, Nah, there's still a chance. 5000.
• 51:07
  Dollar Bitcoin dude $5000 Bitcoin.
• 51:10
  You know how many coins I'll be able to buy like?
• 51:13
  I'll be all dialysis for life guys.
• 51:18
  Oh, man, all right, everybody, it's going to be a great show.
• 51:20
  We're going to talk about Bram later on during the culture
• 51:23
  segment. Also during the news segment, I
• 51:25
  got an interesting video for you guys.
• 51:27
  I told you guys the midterms are coming up in November.
• 51:32
  And what a lot of people forget this always happens by the way
• 51:35
  in in American politics is people forget that the previous
• 51:41
  political party that was in power before the Republicans had
• 51:45
  a complete sweep still has an anti Bitcoin stance.
• 51:50
  And one of their one of one of the most popular YouTube
• 51:54
  channels that is pro this political party continues to
• 51:59
  make very high production videos criticizing the Bitcoin and
• 52:05
  crypto industry as a whole. And again, you have to pay
• 52:09
  attention to these things because when the political
• 52:11
  pendulum inevitably swings back, and it could swing back because
• 52:16
  a lot of people are not very happy with the Trump
• 52:19
  administration, don't be surprised if once again you have
• 52:23
  Elizabeth Warren coming in and you have operation choke point
• 52:28
  choke .3 point O begin and then you get caught.
• 52:32
  You get caught by a surprise. Don't be surprised if that
• 52:35
  happens, right? Because fundamentally the core
• 52:38
  of this political party has not changed their perspective on
• 52:42
  Bitcoin. My thesis, my belief is I think
• 52:46
  they're 100% bought into the ideas of central bank digital
• 52:50
  currency currencies, very similar to how the European
• 52:53
  Union is doing. The European Union is hell bent
• 52:57
  on rolling out a central bank digital currency.
• 53:00
  They call it the digital euro. I don't really think that they
• 53:03
  give a flying F about, you know, what the masses believe.
• 53:08
  I think that they're just hell bent on rolling out the digital
• 53:11
  euro because it's a continuation of the Fiat system, whereas Jeff
• 53:15
  Booth likes to call it the system of theft, right?
• 53:18
  I think they're hell bent on continuing that system.
• 53:21
  And I think they're doing that via digital digital via CBDC,
• 53:25
  specifically the digital euro in in Europe.
• 53:28
  And you guys have to remember there's a major political party
• 53:32
  in the United States that has the same philosophy.
• 53:35
  And just because Trump won and just because he signed a couple
• 53:39
  of executive orders, the only actual pro crypto piece of
• 53:44
  legislation, not talking about the Genius Act, which was
• 53:47
  focused on stable coins, the only pro Bitcoin piece of
• 53:51
  legislation that has a lot of crypto stuff in it as well.
• 53:54
  The Clarity Act went down from 80% a couple days ago.
• 54:00
  Now it's down to 36% that it could pass.
• 54:04
  I mean, it went up a little bit. Now it's at 52%.
• 54:07
  And again, there's a March 1st deadline.
• 54:09
  So if this doesn't get passed by March 1st, the probability that
• 54:13
  this thing will get passed at all, it's going to, the
• 54:17
  probability is going to continue to head down to 0, right?
• 54:20
  Which is something else that I called last year, by the way.
• 54:24
  So anyways, we have an update for you guys there.
• 54:27
  And then we're going to talk to Bram about the Bitcoin for
• 54:29
  Millennials podcast, what he's working on, what he wants to
• 54:32
  talk about. So it's going to be an
• 54:34
  incredible show. You guys are going to want to
• 54:35
  stay tuned in. We're going to be right back
• 54:38
  after the commercial break. I want to give a shout out to
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  for $99. All right, everybody, let's get
• 58:05
  into the bulk of today's news story and I want to take
• 58:08
  advantage of the fact that we have our frem, our friend, our
• 58:12
  fellow content creator, fellow Bitcoin content creator joining
• 58:16
  us as a guest today. We got Bram in the house.
• 58:19
  All right, everybody, let's check out today's news story.
• 58:22
  So the clarity act, this is not good, ladies and gentlemen, but
• 58:26
  I predicted it. I'm calling it, I'm taking
• 58:28
  credit for it. I told you guys this was going
• 58:31
  to happen in September of last year.
• 58:34
  The moment that I heard that Bo Hines resigned and he joined
• 58:38
  Tether, which is great news. Tether's a, a good company and
• 58:42
  then when I heard that Senator Cynthia Lummis was not running
• 58:46
  for re election, I told you guys right then and there I'm like,
• 58:51
  guys, this, this Bitcoin legislation or pro Bitcoin
• 58:55
  legislation stuff is not looking good at all.
• 58:59
  And you know, a lot, a lot of people gave me a lot of shit for
• 59:02
  it, but I stuck by my guns and it looks like it's looks like
• 59:06
  it's not playing out so hot. So anyways, this is Matthew
• 59:10
  Siegel and he says clarity Act odds of passing fall sharply as
• 59:15
  March 1st deadline approaches with no meaningful movement on a
• 59:19
  compromise. Coinbase is still moving full
• 59:23
  steam ahead. They they announced a couple
• 59:25
  days ago. We actually talked about it
• 59:27
  during the show and I said, listen, Coinbase is literally
• 59:31
  going out on Twitter and they're still announcing their rewards
• 59:35
  program. And by the way, the, the main
• 59:37
  block of the Clarity Act is 2 reasons.
• 59:41
  Reason #1 there's a big portion of the, of a certain political
• 59:48
  party in the United States that is still anti Bitcoin.
• 59:51
  It's not monolithic, but there's a big portion of them that don't
• 59:55
  support Bitcoin. And they're, they want a central
• 59:58
  bank digital currency. That's thing number one thing #2
• 1:00:02
  is that the big banks actually don't want Coinbase to be
• 1:00:07
  offering rewards on their stablecoin.
• 1:00:11
  And the reason for that is because these rewards would
• 1:00:14
  function as interest and. The big banks in the United
• 1:00:18
  States aren't offering interest at all to any of their
• 1:00:22
  depositors. So if you deposit money in a
• 1:00:25
  bank in a big bank in the United States, they do technically
• 1:00:29
  offer you interest, but it's comical.
• 1:00:31
  It's like .38% on top of the maintenance fee that they charge
• 1:00:35
  you for holding money in that bank.
• 1:00:38
  Simultaneously while all this is happening, the bank is making
• 1:00:42
  money off of your money because they're going out and they're
• 1:00:44
  lending that money. What the stablecoin issues are,
• 1:00:47
  are are are realizing specifically Coinbase with USDC
• 1:00:51
  is that they're saying, hey, listen, we'll offer you, we'll
• 1:00:54
  offer you rewards and not using the word interest on purpose,
• 1:00:57
  we'll offer you rewards if you hold USDC.
• 1:01:01
  So if you hold USDC on Coinbase, if you put, you know, let's say
• 1:01:04
  $100,000 of USDC and you put it on Coinbase, they're offering
• 1:01:09
  you 3 and a half, 3 1/2 percent in Bitcoin rewards.
• 1:01:13
  So they're literally paying you for you holding dollars or the
• 1:01:18
  equivalent of dollars in a coin base account.
• 1:01:21
  They're paying you for that. And if you look at exchanges,
• 1:01:23
  like for example, River Financial, they're offered, I
• 1:01:27
  think they're also offering you interest in Bitcoin.
• 1:01:31
  So if you hold over a certain dollar, no, a dollar amount or
• 1:01:35
  whatever, you hold dollars on the River Financial platform,
• 1:01:39
  they're giving you that 3 1/2%. And this is threatening to banks
• 1:01:42
  because there's a whole new generation.
• 1:01:45
  I know some of these people that don't even have bank accounts,
• 1:01:48
  they use Cash App as their de facto bank account, right?
• 1:01:53
  So this is threatening to banks. Banks don't want to compete.
• 1:01:56
  So they're using, they're trying to use the heavy hand of
• 1:01:59
  government to stifle out competition, which again, I
• 1:02:02
  think is not extremely non competitive.
• 1:02:05
  But this is the reason there's a primary reason as to why the
• 1:02:08
  Clarity Act hasn't been signed. Coinbase is like, listen, the
• 1:02:12
  status quo is better than the law.
• 1:02:14
  The legislation that you want to pass, because the legislation
• 1:02:17
  that you want to pass is actually going to stifle
• 1:02:19
  competition, is actually not going to allow us to do that.
• 1:02:23
  And how does that protect the American consumer?
• 1:02:25
  I don't know. I think it protects the American
• 1:02:28
  banks, that's for sure. So anyways, I want to cover the
• 1:02:30
  other side of this, which is again, there's the you guys have
• 1:02:35
  to remember this. And, and unfortunately, when we
• 1:02:37
  started talking about politics, initially, you guys didn't react
• 1:02:44
  very well to this, but we kind of stuck to our guns.
• 1:02:47
  I remember I was one of the first people on Twitter and I
• 1:02:49
  had this tweet saved in my drafts for the longest time.
• 1:02:53
  And it basically said something along the lines of it's probably
• 1:02:56
  not a good idea that the Biden administration wins another term
• 1:03:00
  for the Bitcoin industry. And the reason I had it saved in
• 1:03:03
  drafts for the longest time is because the Overton window
• 1:03:06
  didn't shift sufficiently enough for me to send out that tweet.
• 1:03:11
  It was only until the Samurai wallet developers got arrested,
• 1:03:14
  It was only until the continuous attacks on Bitcoin self custody,
• 1:03:19
  the continuous attacks on the Bitcoin mining industry that I
• 1:03:22
  felt like it was so incredibly obvious that the Biden
• 1:03:26
  administration wouldn't be a positive towards the, towards
• 1:03:30
  the, the, the Bitcoin and crypto industry as a whole, that I felt
• 1:03:33
  like I could send out that post. People have forgotten because
• 1:03:37
  it's been 2 years and the repubs essentially control the house,
• 1:03:41
  they control the Senate and they control the executive branch,
• 1:03:44
  the AKA the presidency. So people forgot like, oh, OK,
• 1:03:48
  you know what? We won.
• 1:03:49
  We, you know, we got a Bitcoin president in the White House,
• 1:03:53
  ladies and gentlemen, the midterms are literally in a
• 1:03:56
  couple of months and there's an 80% probability that the
• 1:04:00
  Democrats, which again, the not the party as a whole, but a big
• 1:04:04
  portion of the party, the portion of the party that
• 1:04:06
  actually has influence and power, still do not like the
• 1:04:11
  Bitcoin slash crypto industry because for them, they only want
• 1:04:18
  CBDC. That is their main priority.
• 1:04:21
  They want a central bank digital currency.
• 1:04:24
  I want to play you guys this clip again of more perfect
• 1:04:28
  Union, which is a very pro, you know, pro Democrat type of
• 1:04:34
  channel to give you guys an idea of what they're telling their
• 1:04:39
  audience and what the current narrative is, and then we'll
• 1:04:42
  talk about it. Let's check out the clip.
• 1:04:43
  Here we go. You may have noticed the cryptos
• 1:04:46
  crashing again, like it did in 2022 and 2018 and 2013.
• 1:04:51
  You get the picture. But there's something different
• 1:04:53
  about this crash that you need to know about.
• 1:04:55
  Crypto has always gone through boom bust cycles.
• 1:04:57
  But now, thanks to loosening regulations, people can buy
• 1:05:00
  financial products that give them exposure to Bitcoin and
• 1:05:02
  other cryptocurrencies through the regulated stock markets.
• 1:05:05
  They're called ETF's and over $100 billion worth of crypto was
• 1:05:09
  bought by ETF's in the past two years as the size of the market
• 1:05:12
  seemed to only go up. But in October of last year,
• 1:05:15
  after Bitcoin briefly reached an all time high price of $125,000,
• 1:05:19
  investors began to take some risk off the table and sell
• 1:05:22
  their shares of these ETFs. The result?
• 1:05:24
  The price of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies has nose dived.
• 1:05:28
  As of the time of recording this video, Bitcoin is down nearly
• 1:05:31
  50% in just four months. So what happens now?
• 1:05:34
  Well, we'll see how much actual money is backing these
• 1:05:37
  cryptocurrencies. When people sell their shares of
• 1:05:39
  the crypto ETFs, the Wall Street firms that issue them, like
• 1:05:42
  BlackRock turn to the crypto exchanges like Coinbase to
• 1:05:45
  actually we sell the Bitcoin. But if there aren't enough
• 1:05:47
  buyers, then the price starts plunging.
• 1:05:48
  What's the floor? Well, zero.
• 1:05:50
  As I and many economists much fancier than me have argued,
• 1:05:54
  Bitcoin is an unusual investment in that there is no product or
• 1:05:58
  service behind it and it produces no revenue stream.
• 1:06:01
  Essentially, when you're buying Bitcoin, you're buying bits of
• 1:06:03
  computer code uncorrelated with any real world asset.
• 1:06:06
  This is different from buying a share of stock in a company like
• 1:06:10
  Google or Apple. Whatever you think of them, and
• 1:06:12
  trust me, I have thoughts. They are businesses that make
• 1:06:15
  products, provide services, and produce profits.
• 1:06:18
  And as a shareholder, you benefit from the company's
• 1:06:20
  success in the form of an appreciating stock price and or
• 1:06:23
  dividends. Cryptocurrencies have none of
• 1:06:25
  that because crypto doesn't do anything besides offer Bros
• 1:06:28
  something to gamble on and criminals a way to get paid for
• 1:06:31
  their crimes. In December 2022, I testified to
• 1:06:34
  the Senate Banking and Finance Committee saying that the
• 1:06:36
  cryptocurrency industry represented the largest Ponzi
• 1:06:40
  scheme in history. Why was I testifying?
• 1:06:42
  Well, you might know me from TV, but I actually have a degree in
• 1:06:46
  economics. Yes, that's right, Ben McKenzie
• 1:06:48
  is a secret econ dork. For the past four years, I've
• 1:06:50
  been investigating and documenting fraud in crypto.
• 1:06:53
  It's led to a book on the topic with Jacob Silverman, who's been
• 1:06:56
  talking about this stuff with More Perfect Union for years
• 1:06:58
  now. And I'll be releasing a movie I
• 1:07:00
  directed in theaters this spring.
• 1:07:02
  Crypto is a Ponzi scheme. I stand by those words, and we
• 1:07:06
  may soon find out the ramifications.
• 1:07:08
  The problem with crypto being tied into our regulated
• 1:07:11
  financial markets is the contagion effect.
• 1:07:13
  If crypto were to continue to crash violently, the selling of
• 1:07:17
  these assets would push the prices of crypto companies down,
• 1:07:20
  which can lead to the selling of other companies.
• 1:07:22
  Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
• 1:07:25
  Here's hoping that the crypto crash we're currently
• 1:07:27
  experiencing doesn't take the rest of the regulated financial
• 1:07:30
  markets down with it. Fingers crossed.
• 1:07:36
  So again, that's the general narrative, ladies and gentlemen,
• 1:07:39
  right, which is This is why Elizabeth Warren fought so hard
• 1:07:43
  with Operation Choke .2 point O to try to keep traditional
• 1:07:48
  finance separate from the Bitcoin industry.
• 1:07:53
  The reason that the ETF, the reason that they gave such a
• 1:07:56
  hard time in approving the ETF is that they did not want
• 1:08:01
  Bitcoin being essentially accepted within the traditional
• 1:08:06
  financial system. They didn't want it.
• 1:08:08
  He even mentioned it there. He also tried to use a lot of
• 1:08:11
  scare tactics, basically saying, look, I, I have a degree in
• 1:08:14
  economics. It's like, bro, F you, dude.
• 1:08:17
  Like what does that even matter? Like what is it like?
• 1:08:19
  You have a degree in economics. You testified in 2022, dude.
• 1:08:23
  If you would have bought Bitcoin in 2022, even with the 50% dump
• 1:08:28
  that we have now, you'd 3-4 extra money, bro.
• 1:08:32
  So take that degree in economics and shove it where the sun don't
• 1:08:36
  shine, my friend. All right, that's the first
• 1:08:38
  thing I got to say. The second thing I got to say is
• 1:08:40
  like look, they're trying to paint a narrative and you guys
• 1:08:44
  have to understand that the people that the midterms that
• 1:08:47
  are about to happen. This is the mainstream consensus
• 1:08:51
  in the political party that is running against the current
• 1:08:56
  political party that has power. So you could see another
• 1:09:00
  operation choke .23 point O start once again once a
• 1:09:06
  political pendulum swings back. So it's incredibly important to
• 1:09:09
  stay on top of these things, ladies and gentlemen, so you
• 1:09:12
  understand the narrative because at the end of the day, you guys
• 1:09:16
  are the frontline soldiers because you're going to have
• 1:09:19
  family, you're going to have friends.
• 1:09:21
  If you have a following like Bram who has a podcast, you're
• 1:09:24
  going to have a lot of people that are listening to you.
• 1:09:27
  You're going to have a lot of people that are potentially ran
• 1:09:30
  into that video and say, hey, Nico, I saw one of my favorite
• 1:09:33
  TV actors, he made a documentary.
• 1:09:35
  He has a degree in economics and he's telling me that crypto's a
• 1:09:39
  scam, right? So, and again, he's being a
• 1:09:41
  little bit dishonest here because again, he's once again
• 1:09:44
  taking advantage of the fact that people can't differentiate
• 1:09:47
  the difference between Bitcoin and crypto.
• 1:09:50
  And he's commingling the two, he's putting the two together
• 1:09:53
  and he's, and he's basically selling it to you that, hey,
• 1:09:56
  listen, all crypto's a scam. I, I would agree and say,
• 1:09:59
  listen, crypto is a scam, but Bitcoin isn't crypto.
• 1:10:02
  But he's not being honest. He's not being sincere.
• 1:10:04
  He's not telling you there's a difference between Bitcoin and
• 1:10:07
  crypto. He's also conveniently leaving
• 1:10:09
  out the fact that, hey, when he testified in front of Congress
• 1:10:13
  in 2022, the price of Bitcoin was significantly lower than
• 1:10:16
  what the price of Bitcoin is right now.
• 1:10:18
  So again, it's it's it's it's a political narrative.
• 1:10:21
  It has to do with control. It has to do with the fact that
• 1:10:24
  these people want a central bank digital currency.
• 1:10:28
  And if you have Bitcoin, a non sovereign alternative that is
• 1:10:32
  superior to a central bank digital currency, it impedes
• 1:10:37
  their political goals. That's what it comes down to.
• 1:10:39
  It comes down to power at the end of the day, full stop.
• 1:10:44
  Bram, I want to get your thoughts on this man.
• 1:10:46
  You're based in Europe dude. It is significantly worse the
• 1:10:49
  situation over there than it is in the states.
• 1:10:52
  It's it's digital euro full steam ahead.
• 1:10:56
  Christine Lagarde, Opti's ex-girlfriend doesn't give a
• 1:10:59
  flying F what people actually want, what people actually think
• 1:11:04
  she's shoving down the digital euro down everyone's throats.
• 1:11:08
  I want to get your take man. What is the regulatory
• 1:11:10
  environment look like in the EU right now?
• 1:11:15
  Oh, man, big question. But yeah, by the way, to go back
• 1:11:18
  to Ben McKenzie, I made this meme that says, you know, I I
• 1:11:21
  don't understand Bitcoin, but but it sucks.
• 1:11:23
  I have it. I have an opinion.
• 1:11:25
  It is, it is to connect back to, to what I said before.
• 1:11:29
  It's all so tiring. It's all so intellectual,
• 1:11:32
  intellectually lazy. And I agree with you.
• 1:11:35
  Eventually it is about control. It's about keeping people
• 1:11:39
  asleep, dormant, not questioning what money is, where it comes
• 1:11:45
  from, who controls them, but basically just looking at the
• 1:11:47
  government and being like, oh, yeah, please, please tell me
• 1:11:50
  what to think. Please tell me what to do.
• 1:11:52
  Please tell me which money to use.
• 1:11:55
  And I see that. I see this comment now, right?
• 1:11:57
  Like, people find it easy to dunk on Bitcoin when there is
• 1:12:03
  this volatility in price. And whether or not you have a
• 1:12:06
  degree, like Christine Lagarde also has a degree.
• 1:12:08
  She also has a criminal conviction, by the way.
• 1:12:12
  I think honestly the the digital euro will fail.
• 1:12:18
  There is a well, not public debate, but sometimes there's
• 1:12:23
  people that that work on the digital euro that are on
• 1:12:26
  podcasts or whatever. And when you hear kind of like
• 1:12:30
  this, I want to say corporate speak where they talk about,
• 1:12:35
  well, currently it's a bit in a bit of a pause moment and we
• 1:12:39
  need to find clarity and alignment on everyone
• 1:12:41
  participating etcetera, etcetera.
• 1:12:44
  I honestly think it's going to fail.
• 1:12:47
  But you're seeing this push for centralization like you're
• 1:12:50
  seeing everywhere. And in my opinion, it is kind of
• 1:12:54
  like the last. They are like the last
• 1:12:58
  struggles, the last attempts on this kind of like pendulum swing
• 1:13:02
  we've been on towards centralization, where I think
• 1:13:06
  there will be a point in the not so distant future where people
• 1:13:10
  will realize, well, what are the actual benefits of more
• 1:13:13
  centralization? If a government is growing, if
• 1:13:16
  my taxes go up, if I cannot afford the same type of living
• 1:13:21
  standard anymore, whether it's housing or food or leisure or
• 1:13:26
  whatever, what what is the benefit to me?
• 1:13:30
  And I think eventually there's this point where the obfuscation
• 1:13:35
  and the obscurity of everything that they're messing with and
• 1:13:40
  which is not giving us any added benefit or, or value to our
• 1:13:43
  lives will just be too much for them to to keep on covering up.
• 1:13:48
  And so I think it's funny your, your, your differences in, in
• 1:13:54
  the studio, like should we be bullish or should we be bearish
• 1:13:59
  like we talked about just now? I think we are still extremely
• 1:14:02
  early. We, we, we have a certain
• 1:14:04
  foresight of where the road of Fiat money is going and ending
• 1:14:10
  and we're already acting upon it.
• 1:14:11
  I mean, I think we are like the, the, the preppers in the 90s
• 1:14:15
  that you saw on TV right there in the early 2000, you saw these
• 1:14:18
  preppers and we all fought like these people are crazy.
• 1:14:21
  I think, I think we are basically digital, digital
• 1:14:24
  preppers. But as far as Europe goes, you
• 1:14:26
  see we're going towards more and more centralization.
• 1:14:30
  Even this whole chat control, you know, digital ID to be on
• 1:14:33
  the Internet, all these things. I, I think it's all connected
• 1:14:37
  and they are trying. But like I said, I think people
• 1:14:40
  will figure out and I think on time that there are no edit
• 1:14:45
  benefits to more centralization. It's becoming more and more
• 1:14:48
  clear that there are no added benefits for more
• 1:14:50
  centralization. Yeah.
• 1:14:52
  But I mean, like I, I hear you on that, but the political
• 1:15:00
  situation is not clear in that regard in terms of like it's
• 1:15:07
  like, yes, I agree with you. There are no added benefits to
• 1:15:10
  your added centralization. But if that were true, that
• 1:15:13
  people were realizing it, then at the end of the day, we
• 1:15:16
  wouldn't find ourselves in this situation, right, where major
• 1:15:20
  political parties in both continents, in the Americas and
• 1:15:25
  in the EU still think that centralization is a good thing.
• 1:15:30
  Those major political parties wouldn't have the influence.
• 1:15:32
  They wouldn't have the power that they have today without
• 1:15:36
  popular support. So it's like, I agree with you
• 1:15:40
  that maybe eventually one day people will realize that more
• 1:15:44
  centralization is not a good thing, but the political reality
• 1:15:47
  is telling an an entirely different story today on the
• 1:15:51
  ground. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I also
• 1:15:53
  agree with that, right. And This is why you and I are
• 1:15:56
  are talking about this. And we're, you know, putting our
• 1:16:00
  efforts in in, in our own way. So, you know, you're, you're
• 1:16:05
  definitely not wrong there. I do think, you know, and by the
• 1:16:10
  way, we could obviously also be wrong.
• 1:16:12
  If 80% of the people are just sleeping and NPCS and they allow
• 1:16:19
  themselves to be taken advantage of.
• 1:16:22
  People know better than them that want to control them, then,
• 1:16:25
  well, maybe that is our faith, right?
• 1:16:28
  Eventually, I don't know. But my, my, my kind of
• 1:16:31
  conclusion always is, well, what else, right?
• 1:16:34
  If, if we know, if we know all of this, right?
• 1:16:36
  Or, or I follow what you're saying, well, you know, should,
• 1:16:39
  should I also start voting for these people or following these
• 1:16:43
  people? Should I adopt the CBDC?
• 1:16:45
  You know, this is not in my individual interest or that of
• 1:16:48
  my, of my family. So I am acting based upon the
• 1:16:54
  information that I have, the view of the future that I want
• 1:16:58
  to have also, and that is what I'm working toward.
• 1:17:03
  And is that 100% certain outcome?
• 1:17:06
  Definitely not. I think that's also what Larry
• 1:17:09
  Laparte, you know, alluded to in the video.
• 1:17:11
  And I agree with that. You know, Bitcoin in that sense
• 1:17:17
  is also still an experiment. You know, it is either 0 or it's
• 1:17:22
  the black hole of value, the measurement of all value or
• 1:17:24
  however you want to define that. I don't personally don't really
• 1:17:28
  see that there's like a middle of the road ending for for
• 1:17:32
  Bitcoin. And again, that's that's what
• 1:17:35
  I'm acting upon. And also I don't I don't think
• 1:17:39
  it's going to be quick. I think this is going to be a
• 1:17:42
  very slow long grind. Maybe we get 5 or 10 years of
• 1:17:46
  dystopia with central bank digital currencies in between.
• 1:17:49
  I don't, I don't know. But my, my rebuttal to, you
• 1:17:53
  know, when someone says something like you just said,
• 1:17:56
  it's like, yeah, OK, then, then what?
• 1:17:57
  Right. Like what?
• 1:17:58
  What should I do? Should I just lay down, roll
• 1:18:00
  over and be like, OK, please, you know, Daddy government, tell
• 1:18:04
  me, tell me what to do, right? Like what?
• 1:18:06
  What do you expect? I think, I think we just got, I
• 1:18:09
  think we just got to all move, to move to El Salvador.
• 1:18:13
  Maybe, if push comes to shove, maybe we should Opti.
• 1:18:18
  Opti doesn't want to. What does Opti think?
• 1:18:22
  I'm not leaving America. For as long as possible.
• 1:18:26
  You guys are tripping. No, look, I, I actually was
• 1:18:30
  going to troll. I, I was going to come on here
• 1:18:32
  and, and troll and be like, you know what?
• 1:18:34
  I really do want the Dems in power right now because, you
• 1:18:36
  know, Bitcoin was pumping when they were in power.
• 1:18:38
  We have the Republicans embracing us and we're down 50%.
• 1:18:41
  I was promised 150K quickly here we are and we're getting cooked.
• 1:18:47
  But no, I mean obviously like that's just me being cynical and
• 1:18:51
  trolling. I I totally agree with Bram.
• 1:18:54
  I was like like it's very easy. Like the chat said, you know
• 1:18:58
  it's very easy right now to dunk on Bitcoin like we're down 50%.
• 1:19:03
  It's a bear market. It like this happens all the
• 1:19:05
  time. But like you said, Bram, it's
• 1:19:08
  like, if not Bitcoin, like what, what else is there?
• 1:19:10
  And, and I'm, I'm, you know, 100% on board with that.
• 1:19:14
  I'm like, look, if Bitcoin fails, like we have literally no
• 1:19:19
  options here. So I'd, I'd rather try than just
• 1:19:23
  basically, you know, bend the knee and just be like, OK, you
• 1:19:26
  know, give, give me, give me whatever you want, big daddy
• 1:19:29
  government. Because it's just, I'm, I think
• 1:19:33
  inherently kind of anti authoritarian in that respect.
• 1:19:35
  And I just, you can't tell me anything.
• 1:19:38
  So I'd rather fail trying than just accept what the powers that
• 1:19:42
  be have for us. But with that said, just like
• 1:19:46
  we, we knew this was going to happen.
• 1:19:48
  We, we knew we were going to have actors and left-leaning
• 1:19:54
  media come out and be like, oh, look how bad Bitcoin is because
• 1:19:57
  Trump did embrace Bitcoin so much.
• 1:19:59
  I've actually been saying this for over a year, or rather since
• 1:20:02
  November of 2024, that I was like, guys, this was going to
• 1:20:05
  happen. And now that the midterms are
• 1:20:07
  coming up, it is funny to see. Or rather, maybe not necessarily
• 1:20:11
  funny in like an actually funny way, but it's interesting to see
• 1:20:14
  that the propaganda machine is coming out.
• 1:20:18
  And starting to lay the foundation to be like, ha, ha, I
• 1:20:21
  told you guys Bitcoin was a bad investment.
• 1:20:23
  And then they literally have like an actor, you know, making
• 1:20:26
  content and being like, oh, I have a degree in economics.
• 1:20:29
  And it's like a cool story, bro. Like you, you were wrong about
• 1:20:32
  Bitcoin. But now, now you can say, oh, I
• 1:20:35
  was right about Bitcoin. Look, it's 50% down in a year or
• 1:20:38
  two when you know, Bitcoin is ripping.
• 1:20:40
  He's not going to be out here saying anything.
• 1:20:42
  He'll just continue to be. It's the biggest policy in the
• 1:20:44
  world. And you're like, OK, cool, bro.
• 1:20:45
  Like just tell me you missed out on it.
• 1:20:47
  I don't really you need to listen to your opinions here
• 1:20:49
  because you're just missing the best asset, period.
• 1:20:52
  You're missing the best investment, you're missing the
• 1:20:54
  best money and you're too blind to see that because of your
• 1:20:57
  prior. So like I'm OK with I literally
• 1:21:00
  at this point, I'm OK with people metaphorically shooting
• 1:21:03
  themselves in the foot right now.
• 1:21:04
  Let's just hope we can protect the people that are listening to
• 1:21:07
  them and be and get them all into Bitcoin.
• 1:21:10
  Yeah, absolutely. Anyways, guys, it's going to be
• 1:21:12
  an incredible show. We're we're going to talk to
• 1:21:13
  Bram about his podcast. What?
• 1:21:15
  He's you? Have to look at the at the, the
• 1:21:18
  comments, the comments. Are so brutal dude.
• 1:21:20
  Welcome the comments are the comments are cooking.
• 1:21:23
  Welcome to simply Bitcoin. Bro.
• 1:21:24
  We literally have the most brutal comments ever man.
• 1:21:28
  You should check out the Rumble comments, they're even worse.
• 1:21:31
  No, dude, wait, sorry. Do you know what it said It
• 1:21:33
  said? I hope when I watch your show
• 1:21:35
  they tell they they said. Bro, I hope when I watch your
• 1:21:37
  show and talk about how you were invited to simply Bitcoin and
• 1:21:40
  didn't get to speak a fucking sentence.
• 1:21:43
  Bro, they're brutal. They make fun of me.
• 1:21:46
  They fun and make fun of me a little bit more than than.
• 1:21:48
  Opti dude, the chat loves me. But yeah, the it's the comments
• 1:21:53
  are the comment box is spicy and legendary, but we love all you
• 1:21:57
  guys anyways. If you guys are enjoying the
• 1:21:59
  show, make sure to smash that like button.
• 1:22:01
  We're going to talk about all things Bram during the culture
• 1:22:04
  segment. We're going to be right back in
• 1:22:05
  just a little bit. I want to give a shout out to
• 1:22:08
  our partner Hive Digital Technologies.
• 1:22:11
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• 1:22:15
  mining footprint and channels that same scale into high
• 1:22:19
  performance compute, where their AI cloud is now ranked number
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  one in the world for network performance.
• 1:22:26
  At Hive, you've got dual engines, Bitcoin and AI humming,
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  roaring, accelerating and unison.
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  They're lean and mean. They're green and clean, and
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  they're rewriting the playbook on sustainable digital
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  infrastructure. You can catch the latest buzz at
• 1:22:42
  Hive Digital Tech or at Hive digitaltech.com.
• 1:22:50
  Wait, I have to address this comment.
• 1:22:51
  Nico can't even pronounce the word.
• 1:22:54
  I'm saying El Salvador so you guys understand it.
• 1:22:56
  Do you want me to say it with a Spanish accent every time, El
• 1:22:59
  Salado like. No, don't do that.
• 1:23:01
  That's really annoying. Like I'm trying to, I'm trying
• 1:23:03
  to like say it for you guys. So anyways, Bram, welcome dude.
• 1:23:09
  How you been? How's life?
• 1:23:12
  I'm happy I get to talk now. No, I'm kidding.
• 1:23:14
  No work work. I mean, dude, we could have no.
• 1:23:18
  You know I love you. We could, we could have invited
• 1:23:20
  you, we could have invited you at the, at the 2:00 PM mark,
• 1:23:23
  which we usually do for some guests, but I, I, I thought we'd
• 1:23:26
  want to have you included in, in part of the show, so.
• 1:23:29
  And then you rented for 20 minutes and then.
• 1:23:32
  So we, we, we did, you know, we, we invited you a little bit
• 1:23:36
  earlier than what we than we normally invite people in.
• 1:23:39
  But I don't know. I thought I wanted you part of
• 1:23:41
  the, I wanted you part of the show, man.
• 1:23:42
  Next, next time I know I'll invite you at 2:00.
• 1:23:45
  I'll invite you at 2:00 next. Time.
• 1:23:48
  He's spicy, Optic. He's spicy.
• 1:23:50
  Yeah, yeah, I've been trolling him a lot.
• 1:23:52
  So now he's, he's a, he's a little sensitive this morning,
• 1:23:55
  not just because about us trolling him.
• 1:23:57
  He, he's getting a little sensitive this morning.
• 1:23:59
  So, you know, we'll, we'll be OK.
• 1:24:02
  We'll I'll, I'll make sure he, he eats good and maybe takes a
• 1:24:05
  nap later. He'll be OK.
• 1:24:06
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:24:09
  No, man, I'm, I have to say I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm good.
• 1:24:12
  I think I think, yeah, you know what I what I just said.
• 1:24:15
  I think it's just so interesting that and I think you guys have a
• 1:24:19
  similar. Yeah, well, maybe this ties into
• 1:24:26
  that. I think you have a similar
• 1:24:27
  experience, right? Like, I last week I realized
• 1:24:31
  that I've experienced 570 plus percent drawdowns, but honestly,
• 1:24:38
  this one feels the most random because nothing really, nothing
• 1:24:44
  really happened. There is no reason.
• 1:24:45
  There's no FTX, there's no China ban or whatever random thing
• 1:24:50
  happened. So yeah, I just, I, I wonder
• 1:24:55
  what's going on. I like the takes where it says,
• 1:24:58
  you know, like the people that understand this in the financial
• 1:25:00
  world, they're trying to, you know, manipulate and flush
• 1:25:05
  everyone out and blah, blah, blah.
• 1:25:07
  You know, I, I think anything that we can say is probably just
• 1:25:10
  interpreted as cope. But what I get back to is just a
• 1:25:16
  fundamental analysis of what what Bitcoin is.
• 1:25:20
  And again, we just touched upon it a little bit.
• 1:25:24
  You know, Fiat money debasement is mathematically assured.
• 1:25:27
  It is a path dependent thing. The end is 0.
• 1:25:32
  So if you are a millennial, like like you said, my podcast is
• 1:25:36
  Bitcoin for millennials. I focus on educating my
• 1:25:39
  generation. I think there is no pension for
• 1:25:41
  you. I think there are no social
• 1:25:42
  benefits for you. And so you have a problem today
• 1:25:45
  whether you want it or not. And so you have to start looking
• 1:25:50
  for something that can keep your purchasing power toward the
• 1:25:56
  future. And for me, that eventually has
• 1:25:59
  become Bitcoin, right? Like even today, if you say
• 1:26:02
  like, oh, well, the price is going down, It's, it's, it's
• 1:26:04
  nothing. I'm going to, you know, sell
• 1:26:06
  Bitcoin, then, you know, it's sell, sell for what the money is
• 1:26:10
  being debased. Real estate is never your stocks
• 1:26:13
  are never your yours gold. You you cannot take anywhere on
• 1:26:20
  on a plane to to another country.
• 1:26:22
  You cannot have that in in self custody to a degree.
• 1:26:25
  So for me, the most rational conclusion in the digital age is
• 1:26:31
  Bitcoin. But I also think I also think
• 1:26:34
  we're early and I think we're also in a stage of let's say
• 1:26:41
  the, the US, you know, world reserve currency 4th turning,
• 1:26:44
  however you want to define it, which is just incredibly chaotic
• 1:26:48
  and will become more, more chaotic.
• 1:26:52
  And I also think that people are the majority of people is
• 1:26:55
  returning to what they think has value, right?
• 1:26:57
  Like central banks are buying are buying gold.
• 1:27:02
  That is usually an argument for some people.
• 1:27:04
  Like, you know, central banks are buying gold and they aren't
• 1:27:06
  buying Bitcoin. But if you objectively look at
• 1:27:09
  the characteristics of gold and Bitcoin next to each other,
• 1:27:12
  Bitcoin is vastly superior, right?
• 1:27:14
  So even this whole notion of calling Bitcoin digital gold,
• 1:27:19
  that is it. It's so funny when you read like
• 1:27:21
  all these bearish comments on X, right?
• 1:27:22
  Like it's, it's not digital gold or we don't know whatever the
• 1:27:25
  fuck their arguments are. No, like digital gold is an
• 1:27:29
  illustrative description to give you a certain sense of how you
• 1:27:34
  could think about Bitcoin. But when you look at at the
• 1:27:36
  characteristics of Bitcoin, you will see that it is, like I
• 1:27:40
  said, vastly superior. So it is itself, it is just
• 1:27:44
  Bitcoin, but just the term digital gold is just to help
• 1:27:47
  people to think in a certain direction, as my understanding
• 1:27:51
  currently is that Bitcoin is a profound technological discovery
• 1:27:55
  that everyone should understand. Ended up but the world still
• 1:27:58
  thinks I'm crazy. Yeah, bro, the the world thinks
• 1:28:01
  we're all crazy. They think, you know, they
• 1:28:03
  think. We're I might actually be crazy
• 1:28:05
  though. Opti, you're crazy.
• 1:28:07
  I know, I know, I I'm leaning into.
• 1:28:09
  It But maybe we're all crazy. Maybe.
• 1:28:11
  We're friends. So you're definitely crazy.
• 1:28:13
  Yeah, yeah. And Bram likes us, so he's
• 1:28:15
  definitely crazy. Yeah, we're all.
• 1:28:17
  Crazy. We're all crazy.
• 1:28:19
  Bram, talk to me about the Bitcoin for Millennials pod.
• 1:28:22
  A huge fan of your podcast, man. I think you make incredible
• 1:28:25
  content. You know, I love the love the
• 1:28:28
  interviews that you conduct and and the conversations you get
• 1:28:30
  into. So talk to us a little bit about
• 1:28:32
  that. Perhaps our our viewers have
• 1:28:34
  have not seen your work. So Bram is the host of the
• 1:28:39
  Bitcoin for Millennials podcast. Talk to us a little bit about
• 1:28:41
  that. Yeah.
• 1:28:43
  Well, thanks. Thanks for thanks for that.
• 1:28:45
  And, and like I said, I, I'm really focusing on my
• 1:28:49
  generation. I think we are all, you know,
• 1:28:51
  millennials are like late, late, between late 20s, late late 30s,
• 1:28:56
  like very early 40s. And we are, we are in a big
• 1:28:59
  stage of our, of our lives, right?
• 1:29:01
  We have followed a certain path into adulthood and now have,
• 1:29:07
  yeah, big decisions to to make, where to live, who to be with,
• 1:29:11
  having children or not, right. Like what, what is your career
• 1:29:15
  even with, you know, all the AI stuff coming.
• 1:29:17
  And so we have followed this path.
• 1:29:20
  But I also think that this path eventually LED us to something
• 1:29:26
  that was different than the thing that we've been told or
• 1:29:30
  sold along the way by the generations for us, that
• 1:29:33
  actually, that actually we're able to follow this path and,
• 1:29:37
  and build wealth. And we are living in this age
• 1:29:41
  range. You know, we are in this age
• 1:29:43
  range, but we are living in a time where we see this
• 1:29:46
  accelerated debasement of the money that we're forced to use
• 1:29:50
  this whole push towards centralization, right?
• 1:29:54
  Very high tax pressure and whatnot.
• 1:29:56
  I mean, in the US, people work, you know, 20% of their taxes go
• 1:30:03
  to paying interest on the debt, right?
• 1:30:06
  It's not even going to paying off the debt, let alone it goes
• 1:30:11
  to investing into society. And so I, I think when you just
• 1:30:17
  look at it in, I want to say like a primitive way, and you
• 1:30:23
  realize that the debt will never be repaid.
• 1:30:26
  The push for centralization and control will only be higher
• 1:30:30
  because they need more revenue, government revenue, so taxes or
• 1:30:37
  just creation of money, which leads to price inflation.
• 1:30:41
  And they know that people won't be be happy.
• 1:30:43
  So they're scrambling towards fabricating some sort of
• 1:30:47
  solution or or band aids for yeah, what I what I call a path
• 1:30:53
  dependent development, which is the, you know, Fiat, Fiat money
• 1:30:59
  eventually going going to 0, which will create all the
• 1:31:04
  imaginable unrest that that comes along with that.
• 1:31:09
  So I think the millennials have a problem today that they cannot
• 1:31:13
  ignore and I like to focus on talking about that.
• 1:31:17
  Of course, I also talked about Bitcoin.
• 1:31:19
  It is called Bitcoin for millennials.
• 1:31:20
  I think Bitcoin is the vehicle to protect yourself toward the
• 1:31:24
  future. But I've come to the realization
• 1:31:27
  that talking about the problem that basically no one is really
• 1:31:32
  aware of, which goes from this monetary debasement to even
• 1:31:36
  understanding what fractional reserve banking is, that money
• 1:31:39
  in the bank is not yours, right? That you never really own a
• 1:31:42
  stock, etcetera. Is is.
• 1:31:46
  Yeah, it's something that I, that I want to focus on just
• 1:31:49
  because I'm seeing no one has a clue.
• 1:31:51
  And everyone is just, you know, doodling, doodling along and
• 1:31:55
  they're just, you know, living their life, whatever.
• 1:31:58
  And I, I think there is something coming toward us that
• 1:32:02
  is not as positive as, as, as, as people might think.
• 1:32:07
  And so that's what I'm trying to help people with to, to
• 1:32:10
  understand. And yeah, it's very fun to do.
• 1:32:13
  I still learn a lot after 10 years in Bitcoin.
• 1:32:16
  Every week there's new stuff where you know, I, I'm, I'm
• 1:32:21
  surprised by what I'm learning and I'm inspired by what I'm
• 1:32:24
  learning. And so it's a very rewarding
• 1:32:26
  thing to do. Fantastic.
• 1:32:28
  Well, guys, go check out the Bitcoin for Millennials podcast.
• 1:32:33
  Bram, thank you so much for joining us on the show today.
• 1:32:36
  Really, really appreciated it, man.
• 1:32:38
  Always love when you come on. And yeah, guys, go check out his
• 1:32:41
  podcast. I think I've been I was a guy
• 1:32:44
  actually. I want to tell the story the
• 1:32:45
  first time, first time Bram invited me on his show it we
• 1:32:52
  went back and we literally played tag for like at least six
• 1:32:56
  months because like literally it was like he invited me and then
• 1:33:01
  I had to cancel because we were both having like kids at the
• 1:33:04
  same time. It was like, it was like kind of
• 1:33:05
  like it was, it was strange. We were both having kids at
• 1:33:07
  around the same time. The first time I was like, hey,
• 1:33:10
  Bram, I'm sorry, I can't. It's just like my wife or
• 1:33:12
  whatever. And then he's like, no worries,
• 1:33:14
  we'll reschedule. And then the second time he's
• 1:33:16
  like, Nico, sorry, you have to cancel.
• 1:33:18
  So like my wife or like this, this and that.
• 1:33:20
  And it was like actually like it took us like 4 times until we
• 1:33:24
  actually made, we were able to actually record the podcast and
• 1:33:29
  we're like 6 months of like back and forth.
• 1:33:31
  But I had a really, really good time joining his show.
• 1:33:34
  And his questions were excellent.
• 1:33:37
  And he just didn't talk the whole time like I did.
• 1:33:40
  So it was a great time. So go check it out.
• 1:33:42
  Bitcoin for millennials. Go follow Bram on X.
• 1:33:45
  And Bram, thank you so much for joining us on today's show.
• 1:33:49
  Cheers guys. Thanks for joining us, Stick.
• 1:33:51
  Around. Stick around backstage for a
• 1:33:52
  second, guys. We're going to close out the
• 1:33:53
  show. Like it?
• 1:33:56
  Smash the like button, subscribe and we'll see you tomorrow on
• 1:33:58
  the next one. Simply Bitcoin Live.
• 1:34:00
  Take care, everybody. Today's episode was brought to
• 1:34:03
  you by bitcoinwell.com, a Bitcoin only platform on a
• 1:34:06
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