Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / A career in mortgages and being your own boss - Jon Stones

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A career in mortgages and being your own boss - Jon Stones · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Hello everybody, I'm Ali Topan and I specialise in mortgage recruitment.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'll be hosting podcasts on the financial planner life, discussing all areas of the mortgage industry.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's careers, the current market, passions, and the bugbears.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: On this podcast, I'm lucky enough to be joined by John Stones, the Director of Mortgage First, where we discuss how he got into the industry, where he is currently, what his passions are, and how it's all about the team, and also why the future is bright.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: So today I'm with um John, the director of Mortgage First.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much for coming along and joining us on the podcast.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: No problem at all, Ali.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: And are you well?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very well.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, very well.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: So today we're just gonna kind of um just go over a few things.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um obviously, you've spent a lot of time in the industry.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, how did you kind of get into the profession?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um by accident, really, to be perfectly honest.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think like like most people, I probably didn't um well definitely didn't set out to be become a mortgage advisor.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just kind of happened along the way.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um didn't do greats at school, didn't get a load of qualifications, to be honest.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, quite a few C's, D's, a couple of E's in there as well, I think.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um left uh I didn't do A levels, didn't go to university, um, went to college and did leisure and tourism, I think it was, which was um just a bit of an easy, easy subject, to be honest.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, had lots of jobs when I left school, worked at Morrison's, uh, worked in a travel agent's worked in a call center.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then it just by chance, really, a friend of mine, he was an advisor at CIS, co-op insurance.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um he got promoted to a sales manager's role and sort of said, look, do you want to come for an interview?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, got an interview there.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's where I got my qualifications to be a uh well, a financial advisor is it initially was.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um got my MAQ there as well, which was the CMAP equivalent back in the day.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um then after a year or so there, he he left and set up his own mortgage brokers um and asked me if I if I wanted to go with him.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, that was that was kind of it.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I say, never really planned on on um ending up in the mortgage industry or financial services, but just kind of happened along the way and still here 20 odd years later or whatever it is.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, running your own business.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's it, yeah.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: And again, you know, that that was never really my intention.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um when I when I set mortgage first up, um it just again kind of happened really.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: I never set out to own a business or have staff or that kind of thing.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: It just sort of evolved, evolved along the way, really.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: So so talk me through it.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: Where were you before you kind of uh started mortgage first and how did it like pick up pick up gravitas and to get you to where you are now?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I worked for a uh an independent mortgage advice firm in in Sheffield.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this was kind of probably started there in about 2003, 2004, something like that.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I was with them a number of years.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but they were predominantly, they shifted whilst I was there, predominantly into starting to do more adverse credit side of things.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um adverse credit, large broker fees traveling all over the country.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um credit crunch was impending at that point.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I kind of decided that wasn't really for me that that that area of it anymore.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to more sort of focus on on the the the bread and butter mortgage advice side of it.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um so decided to to to to step away.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, in all honesty, I could see that they were going to run into a bit of an issue because all of their eggs were in the the adverse basket.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um and um you know credit crunch was was looming.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: So 2008 I decided to set up by myself.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Great timing on my behalf, just right at the start of the credit crunch was when I uh was when I set the business up.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, so just just really went into it as a one-man band mortgage advisor, just more not to have a business, not to grow it and build it.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that was never ever the intention when I set up.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was more just a case of wanting a bit more flexibility, wanted to be self-employed, but kind of wanted to do my own thing as well.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, set up with them um set up by myself, like I say, 2008, and then it's just kind of kind of grown from there, really.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and what a j what a journey it's undergone from one man band to where you are now.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, how did you choose?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: I know you're part of the Stonebridge Network.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: How did you choose the Stonebridge Network?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when we first, when I first set the business up um 2007, 2008, we initially went with a company called Mortgage Times uh Network, uh Mortgage Times Group, I think they were called.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: They're based down in London.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: They they were another network, they were a Stonebridge equivalent.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we I was with them for the first sort of six months or so.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um they went bust um during during the credit crunch, and they were quite a big network out, I believe, at the time.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, there was there was you could tell issues were coming, we were starting to not get paid commissions, or they would, you know, they would owe five grand in commission and pay you a thousand pounds, almost as if they were divvying up a bit of money to everybody because they didn't have enough pay the full amount, but just enough to keep everyone ticking over.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then pretty much overnight they went bust, got an email to say that your authorization's been removed, and and you'll have to chase up, you know.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're part of LNG Mortgage Club, and luckily they sort of really helped us out with commissions, but we had to deal with them to try and get paid any commission, couldn't submit any more business, couldn't submit any more applications.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm perfectly honest, one of one of the reasons I picked Stonebridge was they said they were one of the ones that could get me up and running as quickly as possible.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um as a one-man band, um, you know, and and um bills to pay and that kind of thing, for your your your effectively your ability to work to be turned off overnight, yes, how quickly I could get back up and running was was kind of one of the the most important things.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think the other thing that struck me about Stonebridge was that um Richard Adams, who was the the the owner and MD of Stonebridge at the time, um Rich is not not with Stonebridge anymore, but he's a bit of a legend in the mortgage industry.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: He um he drove up from Essex to come and see me.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we're we're based near Sheffield.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's a good sort of you know three to four hour drive.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um Rich drove all the way up from Essex to sit down and have a chat about kind of how we could get me into the network and and how quickly we could do it and what the future would look like and that kind of thing.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, um I think that kind of stayed with me as well.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: If he's willing to put all that effort into drive up here and see me, yeah.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Stone is is probably the place for me.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, joined Stonebridge 2008 um and still with them sort of what we now have 13, 14 years later, give or take.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: So not looked back.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, mate, exactly.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's amazing what a first impression can do.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you know, if someone's willing to make that journey, like you said, it's the kind of people that you want to work with and spend your time with.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, and you know, it's it's it's the same with recruitment and that kind of thing, you know.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: First impressions really, really do last.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're um and myself and Rich have got on really well over the years, and he's been uh a big influence on sort of my career, and he's he's helped me and guided me over the years as well.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, those first impressions, you know, like I said, really realistically, along with how quickly they could do it, that was the whole reason that I uh I joined Stonebridge.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that you said you started during the credit crunch, something that's affected um well, our whole way of life is the pandemic.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: How have mortgage first been hit hard in the pandemic, or how have you kind of adapted to to it?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not not really, to be perfectly honest.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we had the same issues that everybody had in terms of lender service times and and and obviously the whole housing market um in terms of purchases grinded to a bit of a hole.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um the thing that was uh lucky, I suppose, from from our point of view is that um back in 2013, 14, something like that, um I switched and did it, I was still a one-man band at that point.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because actually a lot of the growth of the firm has only happened sort of in the last five or six years.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but back at that point I switched to remote advising, um, which meant that um obviously rather than just dealing with a pool of clients within a certain radius where everyone wanted to drive to, I was able to deal with clients all over the UK from from my office.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's how the whole business has has grown.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would probably be underselling it if I said that 95% of our business is done remotely, whether it's on the phone, email, zoom, that kind of thing.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been like that for years.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's how pretty much all our advisors operate.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that actually stood us in really good stead when the pandemic hit.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because obviously everybody had to switch to doing remote advice.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you're already there.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: We were already there, and and saying you're gonna go remote is one thing, but then actually doing it, it takes quite a lot of getting used to.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to change your whole approach in terms of dealing with clients, documentation, um, processing the case, all that kind of thing.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I know speaking to kind of other business owners who who also look to switch to remote advice, they obviously had quite a few issues in terms of actually adapting to it, whereas we were able to carry on pretty seamlessly.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and likewise, because we've been going a number of years, we we had a very large client bank as well, yeah, which meant that obviously if you were a broker relatively new to the market, working in an estate agent's pretty much only working on purchase business, that will have dried up.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas we were able to keep ticking over, yes, business levels dropped, but we were able to keep ticking over just with the the retention business because two deals are coming to an end, who still need a mortgage getting through.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, so yeah, we were we we were actually um one of the lucky ones, really, in the sense that it didn't have obviously, like I say, it had the service issues and all the other kind of things, but it wasn't as bad as as I know it was for some people.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's that's great to hear that you're able to still carry on carry on going, and you've already got a lot of these things implemented before before the pandemic hit.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: In terms of moving forward, what are your plans for mortgage first?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, you know, uh well to to to to grow it as big as we can do, really.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we we we want to compete with the big boys, we want to become one of the the the household names, um, whilst always kind of maintaining that that sort of company company ethos, um, if you like, in the sense of we are a uh family-owned business.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: The business is owned by myself and my wife, Lisa.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Lisa's involved, you know, she's uh sort of operations director, she's heavily involved day to day as well.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we always want to kind of keep that that sort of ethos, the business.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but likewise you want to grow it as as big as we can and and you know, and become that sort of household name and household brand, like some of the other some of the other big boys out there.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're currently recruiting still now, we've got sort of four or five advisors going through authorization process.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um the aim is to get to somewhere between 30 to 35 advisors by the end of by the end of this year.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then hopefully with a look aim to sort of get into in the region with about 50 advisors next year.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then see where we see where we go from there, really.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know that the good thing that we have as a business is that we um you know we're heavily into sort of uh lead generation um in terms of um online leads um as well as a number of lead partners that we work with as well.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you know, we we we have large amounts of leads, um, which is what really enables us to grow.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because the amount of times I interview people and and the reason that they're looking for another role is because you know they were sold a sold a dream on lead generation, and the the dream and the reality turned out to be two different things.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I hear that all the time as well.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and when you know they've got there, and actually the leads on on you know the quality that they were told, or the it's certainly not the volume.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you can be the greatest mortgage advisor in the world, but if you've got nobody to advise, you're not gonna write a write your business, you're not gonna make any money.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um so so lead generation is how we've grown the business.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of quite heavily my role in the business in terms of bringing in new lead sources, whether it's new online partners, whether it's looking at our own internal lead generation, whether it's working with with estate agents.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's how we're we're we're kind of able to, you know, so all very well saying we want 50 advisors next year, but you've got to have the the means to support them as well as the the sort of you know the capabilities to attract them.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Every man and his dog's recruiting right now.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, everyone's kind of swayed by how busy they've been over the past few months thinking, oh, we need to get some more advisors in.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, there's no point bringing advisors in and then not being able to feed those advisors, which does seem to happen regularly, like we say, with with why we're talking to other people.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: So the long-term aim is to to build it as big as we can, you know, whether that's 35 advisors and we stop there, or whether it's 135 advisors, we'll see what the see what the next few years brings.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Whilst maintaining that same kind of feel that you've got at the moment.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, you know, that's it.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: We um we you know, we are uh we still operate to a certain degree in terms of that that small close-knit firm.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: It gets harder as the bigger you get, particularly with the fact that the majority of our advisors um are remote-based, they work from home all over the country.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that can be hard to kind of keep that that um that culture going.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, we is is something that we strive to to maintain.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I see you on LinkedIn, and I it seems like you're doing a fantastic job of it.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: I see these barbecues, and uh yeah, it'll be that was um that that was uh uh an interesting event.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was um we'd not we'd not uh had any kind of social do.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: We try and have at least a couple of years, a winter one and a summer one.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: But obviously we've not been able to have any kind of social event um until you know since Christmas 2019 was the last time we did one.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we decided to have uh um some kind of social gathering in the summer.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it looked amazing.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I mean with so with sort of COVID and and and the restrictions, we were we were struggling to find a venue that was willing to accept um, you know, without breaching any rules or anything, but was people didn't want to have sort of big gatherings.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: So in the end, we decided to have it our house, um, which was a bit of a bit of a brave one.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um luckily we were we were really lucky with the weather, it was absolutely scorching.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: So we had everyone in the back garden.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: We had a um we had a local restaurant, came and did a barbecue, we had a full free bar there as well, which the staff more than took uh took advantage of.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Did it get a bit wild or was it all good?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, there was a couple of trays of shots doing the rounds later on and that kind of thing.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um we had a bit of beer pong, but I mean we started at about two in the afternoon.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think the last people went about 3 a.m.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it was uh so it was quite uh but I mean to be fair, Lisa, uh my wife, she uh before she joined Mortgage Fair, she was a wedding planner.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: She was in her absolute element, or everything in terms of looked, yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was all her.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: I can't take any any credit for any of that at all.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: But well done by her.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Social events are a really important part of of it, particularly with half the team being um being remotely based.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, it's the way you kind of you know, you can you can do all you like on Zoom and that kind of thing, but there's nothing like sitting down and having a drink and having a proper chat with people to yeah, a hundred percent.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: So so when did I know that you and Lisa kind of run the business together, but when did she come on into the business and leave being a wedding planner?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: So she came, so she came in, should know this really, shouldn't I?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um about 2015.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm sure she'll she'll tell me often I've got that wrong, around about that point.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like I say, a lot of the initially the business was just me.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you kind of look at it and say, well, we started in 2008, and so we're you know, sort of 13 years down the line.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, when you look at the the sort of business as a whole, it was like that, and it was only around the 2014-15 mark.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Lisa will say that's she her joining was a catalyst for it, really taking off, but wasn't wasn't quite like that.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: But um, it's kind of like that, and then it it it really, really takes off from there.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: So the growth really has only happened over the past sort of five or six, five or six years.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, yeah, it got it got to the point where I, you know, we'd taken on taken on the first year advisors, had a couple of administrators, um, and and needed some help really in terms of running it.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where Lisa kind of eventually came on just to help out with with commissions and that sort of thing.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um but then you know, her role, she she's involved in she does all the marketing, she does all the social media, um, she sort of manages the accounts department, payroll, um pretty much everything that I don't do, to be perfectly honest.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: All the day-to-day stuff is is Lisa behind the scenes.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a good good team then.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, yeah, you know, I'd say um we um and we're on two different floors of the building, which that helps because we don't have to see her all day, every day.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: That might be a little bit uh a little bit too much if we're at work all day together and then at home all day at night.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: So uh that helps.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, we we complement each other well.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um in that's a lot of people sort of say to us, I don't know how you work with each other.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um it just works to be honest.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, it's like the the skills really complement each other.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's brilliant.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: That is really brilliant.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: In terms of um the bet what are the best things about running your own business, would you say?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um best things about running your own business.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not having anybody tell you what to do is is is is quite a nice one.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I mean, you know, I would say I lead from the front in that sense.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm I'm very much uh I'll regularly be the last person in the office.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um if I'm not on the school run, I'll always be the first person in the office in the morning as well.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, it's not just about doing what you want and being able to swan in and out.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but yeah, I I guess building something you could be proud of really is is um when I say I didn't set out to to build a business, I I definitely didn't, but as the years have evolved, you know, my passion comes around growing the business and and and turning it into something that um you know we we can be proud of.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, everybody, whether you're whether you're a one-man band, you know, you're still building your own business, or whether it's a firm of 100 advisors, you still get that same pride and and and buzz from kind of building and growing something.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And um so yeah, I think it's just just having that that pride that comes from creating something, something 100%, especially when it's your own as well.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I always yeah, I I always um talk about mortgage first like it's my third child.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, me and Lisa got two kids and mortgage first, mortgage first or third baby, really.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's exactly how we how we see it in terms of growing it and nurturing it.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you haven't got that passion for your business, then you're not, you know, you're not gonna succeed in whatever you're doing because you you've got to enjoy what you what you do, whatever your job is, whatever your role is.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't enjoy it, um you're you're not gonna make a success out of it, or certainly not reach the heights um in it.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you you've got to enjoy what you what you do, and and we absolutely do.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, 100%.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's great to hear.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: In terms of uh you touched on it then, in terms of you know, school runs and kids, and how how do you balance it all?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um with with difficulty at times, to be perfectly honest.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: We're I mean, luckily, we're both very, very organized people.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I've got lists for lists and and and that kind of thing.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, Lisa's background as a planner, wording planner, that helps.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're very, very organized.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, things do suffer along the way, you know, certain social things and that kind of thing.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: You you you you put so much time and effort into sort of growing your business, particularly with young kids, you know.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I say Lisa joined in 2015.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Our first child was born in 2014, um, and we've had another one along the way as well.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's um so it's it's but yeah, it's been a difficult time in terms of um sort of juggling it all.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: But again, I think it probably comes back to the fact of having a passion, enjoying what you're doing.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you'll kind of make it work.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's like tomorrow Lisa's doing a presentation at a at a school that we um we do a financial planning class for for schools.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's amazing.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Lisa goes into schools and kind of does like a uh a lesson on.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: On how much a house costs and how much you need to earn to do it, and um educating youngsters in terms of what impact, you know, not paying your mobile phone can have on your credit rating later on in life.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: She's gonna be at school at nine o'clock.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I've had to adjust my diary to make sure that I'm available, take our kids to school, and yeah, and vice versa.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you you know, you just we we just make it work, I think is the best way to do it.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, fair enough.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's amazing what Lisa's doing in terms of that kind of education.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's left out of school, really.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: I I remember leaving school and thinking, and not having a clue about finances or budgeting or you know, it's all about the education.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean it's it's it's always it's always been a passion of hers.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's something, you know, that that kind of educating, and that's very much her her bag standing up in front of a class of of kids and and you know, she likes that kind of thing.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: I uh not not for me, that one.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'll let her I'll let her take that one.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she they did it at one of the local school to us, and they've already been approached by she takes a couple of members of staff of them, maybe an advisor or one of the administrators.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um they've already been approached by quite a few other local schools in terms of whether they can run something similar for them.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's cool.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know it's successful then, and the kids are responding well to it.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so yeah, she she she loves that kind of thing.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I think she's she's there every Tuesday morning for the next few weeks, I think, doing it to various different, various different uh age groups.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, but again, you know, it's it's it's part of the kind of company ethos of of giving something back in terms of education.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like I say, it's it's a massive thing.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's all very well learning what types of different rock formation there is, but what purpose has that served later on in life?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're better off knowing uh you know what you need to do to get a mortgage and the impact on decisions you make when you're 17, 18 and you don't bother to pay your credit card or that kind of thing, the impact that can have um later on in life when you actually come around to to wanting a mortgage.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, you're you're so right.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: You're so right.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it it's something that I I growing up never never knew about.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah, it would definitely benefit more people to know about that.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely the younger generation.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just to talk about the industry a bit, what would you say is like your bugbears of the industry?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um quite a few, to be perfectly honest.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, obviously, um COVID's been a very difficult time um for for the lenders and for the banks.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some of them really stepped up during that period.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, others absolutely went apart, to be perfectly honest.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now I get it, we all had our struggles, but we had to kind of adapt and carry on, and some of the lenders really struggled and are still struggling now in terms of us being able, you know, the stamp duty holidays obviously magnified the the issues that they had as well.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's been great for the industry, generating more interest and business, but it's also pretty much broken some lenders and almost ground them to a hole.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, so you know that that's been a bit of an annoyance.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, inconsistent underwriting, particularly since COVID.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's been a you know, you'll have one scenario with a lender and an underwriter will be fine with it.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: The exact same scenario the next day, the different underwriters not okay with it, and it's like, well, you know, change, you know, moving the goalposts almost in that sense.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, another big bugbear of mine is is I don't know, unethical practices, maybe you could describe by some estate agents and that kind of thing, in terms of the pressure that they put people under to use their in-house mortgage broker for no advantage other than their own.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: I've been reading a lot about this recently, and it's uh it's a big bugbear for people in the industry.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: People that aren't in it don't realise that there is a choice you can make there.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and ultimately, these people who are making offers, they just want that house.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: So if they've got a mortgaging principle with mortgage first, you know, we've we've spent time with them getting in the best mortgage lined up so they can go out and view a viewer property.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: But then that agent says to them, Well, you've got to use our broker, and and if you don't use our broker, then it you know you're potentially going to struggle to get this property, it'd be much better for you to use our broker, and we've got special rates, etc.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: etc.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, that person who doesn't understand the industry is going to go, oh God, well, I'll I'll use your broker then.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and don't get me wrong, there's some great agents out there.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: We work with we work with many estate agents, but more and more nowadays am I hearing not just from our brokers, from brokers as a whole, um, sort of horror stories about losing out on clients because the agents are pushing them to use their own.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you do kind of wonder what the vendors, the people buying the house, would say if they knew that the agent, the pressure that the agent was putting people who want to make an offer on the house under to you for their own personal gain to buy that, you know, to use their own in-house mortgage brokers.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's no advantage to the vendor in that, it's purely just for the agent's own gain.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you do wonder what some of those vendors would say if they actually knew what went on behind the scenes.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, there's not really that level of transparency there.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely not.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, like I say, that's that certainly doesn't apply to all agents.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's some there's some great agents out there as well.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, you know, long delays of application still, we're still having those issues.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Some lender systems could do with a bit of a bit of improvement, they've been the same for many, many, many years and probably not move with the times in terms of tech.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, I think, like I say, quite quite a long list of uh of bug bears.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: But um, it don't get me wrong, it is a great industry to be part of as well.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I couldn't imagine myself working in in any other any other industry.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: We've been very lucky as an industry as well, these last couple of years that we've managed to kind of keep going to a certain degree.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah um so the bug bears are minor as opposed to some of the bigger issues that other people in other industries have had over the last couple of years.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I appreciate that and and agree.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, to shed some positive light, I know you said some some lenders really stepped up, and some people, you know, during the pandemic, they took it upon themselves to really, really show face.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what did that look like?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, there was there were certain lenders.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the the biggest issue during the pandemic was um in terms of high loan-to-value stuff.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um so because lenders couldn't go out and do valuations all of a sudden, um, they were relying on on auto-valuations in a lot of cases.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of lenders didn't have the confidence or the capabilities to work off the high loan-to-value stuff.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, unless you had a big deposit, you you were struggling to get a mortgage because it simply couldn't send a uh a value out there.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: There were some lenders who managed to keep auto-valuations at at 90% LTV.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um so, you know, that that really helped out in the sense of keeping that, you know, still having that option because there were, you know, there were kind of times where you would look at it and you would say, well, unless you've got uh uh you know 20-25% deposit, there's no point even looking at a even looking at a mortgage.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And there were certainly lenders who who helped out in that sense.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and also just in terms of process and and um being there to help the brokers out.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because ultimately is a from your BDM, that's kind of all you want, you know.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we don't need business development managers from lenders to tell us what rates they've got.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: We've all got sourcing systems, trigold and and mortgage brain that tell us all of that.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what you need a BDM for.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: You need a BDM to kind of help you um with the criteria side of things and give you a real world answer to whether a case is going to fit or not.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, there were some who some who really stepped up and really kind of helped out.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the vast majority now are kind of back to some semblance of of decent service.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's still a few that are that are struggling.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and to be perfectly honest, I generally, for my advisors, only hear about the bad ones because they're moaning about how rubbish they are.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas the good ones, I had a call with a um a lender the other day, and I said, to be honest, the best praise I can give you is I haven't heard anything about you for the past 12 months.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: So the fact I haven't heard anything about you means that obviously it's going well because the brokers only tend to uh only tend to hear about them when when um when a lender's doing terribly.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, very interesting that you should say that.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: And touching on like the role as a BDM as well, how important is that is that is that role in your infrastructure?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in terms of the lender business development managers.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: So well for for your own in your own personal business with mortgage first.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we have um we've recently had a bit of a restructure in terms of management, um, where we have promoted um Carly from within the team and to sort of head of service, um, and brought in uh a new manager called also called John John Warman as as head of head of advisor development.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um you could kind of view both of those as a as a bit of a BDM role, but I would put them as a little bit more senior than the standard BDM role.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just purely because, again, as the company's grown, uh we got to the point where me and Lisa can only do so much on a day-to-day.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we realize that the advisors needed a bit more support, a bit more help.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and some of our advisors, you know, they're writing decent levels of business, they don't need that much help or support.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they probably just need somebody a couple of times a year to have a bit of a catch-up with, go through kind of business plans and business figures and that kind of thing.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: But we have other people, particularly new advisors, who do need a certain element of support and do need, you know, a plan put in place for the first three or so months of development and whole, you know, hand holding to a certain degree.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, particularly when we're we're actively recruiting, you know, you can't just sort of bring people in, give them a 20-minute zoom induction and away you go, type thing.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you need a training, training plan in place.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, in terms of the development of the business, yes, uh it's a massive part of our plan to be able to help and support them.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because being self-employed, particularly if you're remote based working from home, can be a bit of a lonely, lonely world, to be honest.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that you know, they kind of need that help and support in place to help them develop as an advisor and and you know write more business because ultimately that's that's what we're there for today.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: And and and with that, have you seen that you know, that support being implemented and then it really benefiting the advisor?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: Have you seen people go from strength to strength within your business?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean it's it's relatively new in the sense of, and John's probably been in his role for a couple of months now.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but um, yeah, you know, already we've seen um a couple of advisors, um, their business levels have just done September's figures, actually.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's a couple of advisors um who whose business levels have significantly increased.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that John sat down and spent time with them working with them.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's the kind of help and support that some people need.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like I say, some people, you know, they're they're very self-sufficient, they're they're they're writing decent levels, they'll always continue to write decent levels, but there are other people.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we realized as a business, you know, that was a whole that we had.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, historically, that would be me that would, you know, I used to be an advisor ideal for I three years or so ago.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um historically, that would be me that would kind of sit and and be that person and and um help them where I could.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: But because the business has grown, the nicest possible way I don't have time to do that, to do that anymore.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we realize that if we wanted to continue growing and take it to the next level, um still nurturing your advisor.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we we needed somebody to kind of come in and be that coach, that mentor, and and and that kind of thing.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, already we're seeing the benefits of it.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and long may that continue, hopefully.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, long may it continue.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: In terms of advisors that you look for, the right attitude and the people that you would want joining your team, what does that look like?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I mean I would say that we're we're quite, I mean, certainly not unique, um, but we're not affirm that you know every advisor would be the right advisor for us.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because our advisors work from home, because they work remotely, in terms of the advice that they give, because they um, you know, the leads that we generate are internet-generated leads all over the country.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, certain advisors, you know, just potentially won't fit that model.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got somebody who has spent 10 years in an estate agent dealing with referrals from the estate agent, dealing with everything face to face, they may not necessarily suit our model um in terms of remote internet generated inquiries.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I mean, in terms of you know, organization is always a really big skill that I say, because we generate leads in large volumes, you've got to be really, really organized in terms of spinning those plates and making sure that you're dealing with them all um in an efficient manner.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, with with the internet generated leads, um probably naive to think that somebody's gonna put the details in the mortgage first website and then wait for somebody to come back, they're gonna put their details in four or five different websites absolutely from everybody.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got to make sure that you know you're the one that's that's getting to them quickly, that you're dealing with them, and also you're following up.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's no point that level of consistent quote, yeah, and then leaving them for four weeks and hoping that they come back to you because that advisor from that other firm down the road that's ringed them every couple of days to see how they're getting on, they're probably gonna be the ones that win the business.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, so yeah, organization driven um is you know is a big one again.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: You want people who are wanting to put the legwork in and want to put the time and the effort into um to develop and to grow and to hit those big those big business levels.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean a big thing that we always look out for as well is just the night, nice people, really.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, we've we've we've rejected, we are quite selective in terms of of who we take.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um not everyone will fill it from a fit the model from a business or an experience point of view, but you know, also in the nicest possible way, not everybody will fit it from a personality point of view either, you know.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um we've rejected people um because they undoubtedly would have wrote high levels of business.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, after speaking to them, you could see that potentially be a bit of a nightmare to work with in terms of their their personality, their attitude.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's about ticking all the boxes.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: I would rather have you know two people writing 100 grand a year who are really, really committed, um, you know, really uh, you know, just generally nice people.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'd rather have two of those than one person writing 200 grand a year, who's an absolute nightmare.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you wouldn't have them around for a barbecue.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: You want people that you know exactly, exactly.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: I won't be playing beer pong with them in the garden.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: So uh so, John, what advice would you give to someone thinking about going self-employed and starting up their own mortgage business?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what advice would I give somebody um setting up by themselves?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um or don't, first of all, you may as well come and join mortgage first instead.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, I mean, in all seriousness, I'd say, you know, it is very tough.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so so take your time.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you need to learn to to walk before you can run.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as I said earlier, you know, it was it was five or six years until I took my first advisor on.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I only did that because, well, first of all, I took an administrator on.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I was that busy doing it myself that I needed to take an administrator on to free up my time.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then I only took an advisor on when even with an administrator and me working at full capacity, I still had too many leads and too much business that I couldn't cope with it all.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I see some people you know that I speak to, um, and they're kind of focused is oh, I want to take advisors, I want to grow a business and build a business.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's no point taking advisors just for the sake of it, um, because it it won't work out.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: You've kind of got to get the foundations in place um before you actually look at look at growth.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: So just be a good mortgage advisor yourself and get to the point where you've you've you've got to take administration staff on or you've got to take other advisors on because you've got too much business yourself.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and also, you know, be prepared for the waves, I'd say the business kind of, you know, growing a business, it it will go in waves.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've kind of had to, and I'm as guilty as anybody with it, but I've had to sort of be strict to myself in terms of you can't you can't get too carried away when things are going really, really well.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, likewise, you can't get too down when it doesn't go as as you had it planned out.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, I saw a great uh graphic a while ago, which is sort of the the growing of business.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're at A and you want to get to B, it's never a straight line like that.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's always all over the place.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's peaks and troughs, you have good spells, you have hard spells, but as long as eventually you get to there, you're still heading in the right direction.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Very never be as smooth as you as you want it to be, you're gonna have ups and you're gonna have downs.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um and likewise not to get too down when when things aren't going as you had planned.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: Very similar to life.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, something that I stand by is slow progression, still progression.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you if you're you know, like you say, you're not going backwards, you you you are growing.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's never going to be, you know, love it if it was that smooth, straight growth line, but it just isn't how it works.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but like you say, you know, one step backwards, two steps forwards is still is still growth, you're still going in the right direction.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, yeah, 100%.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's that kind of rounds thing up.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: I want to thank you for coming on.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, final question which I'm gonna be asking everyone is what is your tune of the week?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a song that you've been listening to?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: Tune of the week.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, I mean, one of my favorite favourite hobbies is being a bit of a bedroom DJ.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I've got my decks up in the loft at home.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: I like nothing more than on a on a Saturday evening going up with a little cool bag of beers and and doing a couple hours on my uh on my decks playing uh playing solo just to myself up there.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: That is quality.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: So my choice of music's probably a little bit out there for for maybe yeah.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I probably will see as we've just got tickets for um to go watch Ed Sheeran next year.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um I know my little lad's favourite song currently that he has on all the time is is um bad habits by Ed Sheeran.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: So probably go with that one.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: All right, very nice.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and that the reason I ask because music's a big part of big part of my life.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in a band, and I think it's something that everyone can share in, you know.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean music for me is is um we've got young kids, um, I don't go out anywhere near as often as uh as as as I used to.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um me and Lisa both work in the business, it can be hard to switch off sometimes.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you get home from work and you'll then just carry on talking about mortgage first.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, totally.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: So but yeah, so music is kind of my my my release and my um you know, go upstairs, like I say, um, a couple hours on the decks, have a couple of beers, and that's that's how I relax, really.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: That is insightful.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: I I I like that a lot.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh, I think we're gonna end it there.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much for coming on, and um, yeah, all the best.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: No problem at all.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: Cheers, Alec, thanks for having me, mate.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: Cheers