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Peter Pan in Return to Never Land · The After Ever After Podcast

0:18
Hello everyone, and welcome to the After Ever
0:20
After podcast. The show where we take a look
0:22
at Disney sequels to truly see what life is like
0:25
after Ever After. My name is of course Andy,
0:28
and with me as always is my co -host James. Hello,
0:31
how you doing? Very good, how are you doing?
0:34
I'm very well, thank you. I just got done watching
0:40
Return to Neverland. Smashing out three Cinderella
0:44
films in such a short time was... Nice, but I'm
0:49
glad to be somewhere else for a change. We're
0:53
jetting off. We've got our pixie dust and we're
0:56
flying over to that star over there, the one
1:00
to the right, and we'll hang around with Peter
1:04
Pan and the Lost Boys and all of them. Will we
1:09
be Peterphiles this week? Let's find out. But
1:18
before we jump straight into Neverland, we do
1:20
like to have our little segment as we go through
1:23
the Disney classics in chronological order and
1:25
look at their sequels. I like to imagine we're
1:27
on a little after -ever after -train. So we like
1:29
to have a look at the stops that were going past
1:31
which didn't actually get sequels to see what
1:34
kind of ways did those films continue instead.
1:37
Yeah. So what have you got for us, Andy? Well,
1:40
last time we were talking about Cinderella. And
1:43
between Cinderella and Peter Pan, there's only
1:44
one film, which is Alice in Wonderland, which
1:46
never got a sequel. Which, it feels weird to
1:49
me. We were talking about this just before. It
1:51
feels really weird that this didn't get a sequel.
1:55
Yeah, and I think something strange as well,
1:58
because I don't even know if I've seen this film,
2:01
to be honest, but I've always assumed just from...
2:05
how people talk about it now, that Alice in Wonderland
2:08
is this really beloved and cherished part of
2:10
Disney history. But... looking into this actually
2:14
when it first came out had some bad reviews it
2:17
was um quite mixed and it was a lot of like it
2:20
doesn't really capture the book that well and
2:22
it's good for kids who don't really care about
2:24
stuff and it was quite damning for one of these
2:27
films um really yeah it's funny i i think there's
2:31
definitely been like a critical readjustment
2:33
on it because people really seem to love this
2:35
now yeah and i wonder if that has anything to
2:38
do with the What you're probably going to talk
2:41
about in a second, which is the live -action
2:44
ones with Johnny Depp in. I don't know. It's
2:47
a really weird one. It is, yeah. And it also
2:50
was considered at the time a box office bomb,
2:52
which was surprising. Woof! Apparently Walt Disney
2:55
wasn't surprised that this didn't get a great
2:58
critical reception because it was more family
3:00
-friendly than what the book was. So I guess
3:02
he was kind of expecting it, but... uh it surprised
3:05
me nonetheless but as we've mentioned it did
3:08
get the live action film which was 2010 uh it
3:11
was directed by tim burton it's got a mad cast
3:14
it's got i'm gonna butcher this name mia wasikowska
3:17
is alice uh johnny depp is the mad hatter uh
3:21
who was Pretty much the promotional focus of
3:25
the movie. Yeah. I'm pretty sure all the posters
3:27
just had him on. Yeah. You've got Anne Hathaway,
3:30
Matt Lucas, Henel Bonn -Carter, Crispin Glover,
3:32
Frances de la Torre, who you probably remember
3:35
most from Goblet of Fire. She's Hagrid's love
3:39
interest. Oh, yeah. It's got Alan Rickman, Stephen
3:43
Fry, Michael Sheen, Timothy Spall, Christopher
3:46
Lee, Michael Goff, who people probably most recognise
3:50
as Alfred from the... 89 batman hell yeah it's
3:54
it's a mad mad mad cast for a mad mad mad world
3:58
hey compared to the original film which was considered
4:03
a box office bomb this actually made over a billion
4:05
dollars bloody hell yeah this this did gangbusters
4:09
at the box office so much so that they actually
4:12
made a sequel to it um which the original funny
4:15
enough the original film didn't have i think
4:17
this is probably the only example of this where
4:20
the the remake got a sequel and the original
4:22
didn't it's funny because this sequel is alice
4:25
through the looking glass which is actually a
4:27
sequel to the book so again it's it's weird that
4:30
the animation department never really decided
4:32
to go into this this one was a box office bomb
4:34
so back to formula uh this has to be i'm sure
4:40
i read recently i should have really looked this
4:42
that up but this is one of the biggest drop -offs
4:45
from one film to another on box office because
4:47
it goes from over a billion to 300 million which
4:52
sounds like a lot of money but it costs 170 million
4:54
i make so i probably still lost about 50 million
4:57
yeah if you're taking into account what do they
5:01
say marketing is like double marketing in the
5:04
cinemas the cinema's cut as well yeah so yeah
5:07
there's probably lost money yep quite a lot of
5:11
money as well I cannot criticize them at all
5:14
for trying to make that sequel. A billion is
5:16
a billion. A hundred percent. They had the money
5:18
to be able to do it. Like, why not? But then
5:22
other than the live action stuff. alice in wonderland
5:24
hasn't had that much going on really there's
5:26
a few video games that feature alice in wonderland
5:28
and like a game boy adaptation of the movie but
5:31
nothing major and um it actually featured in
5:34
favorite of the podcast disney villains revenge
5:36
uh of course we always criticize their choices
5:40
of the villains but the queen of hearts from
5:41
alice in wonderland was one of the major villains
5:43
in that and her plot was to cut off alice's head
5:46
so hell yeah and other than that there's not
5:52
really much going on of alice in wonderland surprisingly
5:54
enough they almost did continue it with a uh
5:58
cheshire cat tv show or movie for disney plus
6:01
do you remember that period for disney plus when
6:04
it first came out and they literally started
6:07
throwing like every fucking idea at the board
6:09
like there was a what was the there was a gaston
6:13
yeah monsters inc tv show well that one got made
6:18
at least oh yeah very true that's out there didn't
6:22
realize you met the ones that didn't get going
6:24
well there was i remember um other than the gaston
6:28
one which is just like so weird the one that
6:31
always sticks out in my mind is i have you seen
6:34
aladdin the live action aladdin yes yeah yeah
6:36
So in that movie, they introduce a new character,
6:39
which is Billy Magnusson. Oh, he's like the prince
6:44
that comes in to try and take Jasmine's hand
6:48
kind of thing. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And he's a very
6:51
dopey kind of character. Like, I think he gets
6:53
a lot of, I think a lot of his movies are like
6:55
that kind of thing. I like him a lot. But he
6:58
was, that character had a spinoff in the works
7:01
and it's like, why? What are we doing? What are
7:04
we doing? Bring back the guillotine. Lasseter
7:09
would never allow this. He allowed a lot of bad
7:11
things, but not this. And the only other thing
7:15
I'm just going to quickly mention is there was
7:16
actually an Alice in Wonderland TV show that
7:18
came out. It's not really anything of concern.
7:20
It's for Disney Junior, which was like a preschool
7:24
kind of show called Alice's Wonderland Bakery.
7:29
But I just thought this was interesting because
7:30
the character in it is Alice, but it's the great
7:34
-granddaughter of the original Alice, which is
7:36
okay. That's a bit weird. That's pretty much
7:39
it for Wonderland. Cool. Bye -bye, Wonderland.
7:42
The train is leaving. Bye -bye, Wonderland. Hello,
7:46
Neverland. Whoa, sick. So now we take the train
7:50
from Wonderland over to Netherland. So before
7:55
we jump into... return to neverland we should
7:58
probably look at the original peter pan which
8:00
was 1953 it was indeed did you say that you've
8:05
seen this before um couldn't remember it uh i
8:10
yeah i did say that i don't think i've ever seen
8:13
it so um i i watched it before i know it's the
8:19
it's the classic um after ever after moment of
8:24
oh yeah i've definitely seen this yeah i i'm
8:27
not gonna say that anymore i don't think because
8:29
i don't think i've seen any of these it's crazy
8:31
probably when i was a kid maybe um yeah but yeah
8:37
this was just like my first basically my first
8:40
time in neverland i think a lot of it to be fair
8:42
it's like that cultural osmosis thing of like
8:44
you know every single icon from this film because
8:47
it's just so ingrained in our culture now you're
8:50
like i must have seen it i shouldn't know this
8:52
much about peter pan if i haven't seen it yeah
8:54
i i mean the main things that i remembered was
8:58
peter pan i knew of tinkerbell but i didn't really
9:03
i i didn't know i didn't know she didn't speak
9:06
what the fuck that was that was news to me um
9:10
i knew of tinkerbell i don't affiliate with her
9:14
um i forgot about the tiktok croc completely
9:19
which is one of the best characters the tiktok
9:23
croc makes him sound like a millennial who makes
9:25
videos online He's just doing a Fortnite dance
9:31
to the music. So yeah, no, I have not seen this
9:38
film and now I have. And I'm sure you'll be happy,
9:41
Andy, because I went on the Wikipedia page and
9:44
then there's a big thing that says controversies.
9:48
Woo! i think um some of these you might have
9:53
to like look up like i wonder what the controversy
9:56
is and then with this one i don't think you need
9:58
to look it up you really no you really don't
10:01
there's a lot of um native american racism in
10:04
this like a lot i couldn't but i couldn't fucking
10:09
believe it when it was happening there's a line
10:13
which i've written down um it's one of the children
10:16
that says it as well the little boy in his top
10:18
hat who's shown as like the most like wise of
10:21
the kids he says the Indian is cunning but not
10:24
intelligent oh god that's not good man that's
10:28
really bad really not um and uh they're drawn
10:32
as like monstrous people as well oh my god honestly
10:35
and then except for the women which are drawn
10:38
as like very pretty and apart from the old women
10:42
oh yeah the women are lovely Only the ones that
10:46
you could potentially take for your wife. Andy,
10:51
careful. She's a child. I'm stepping very carefully.
10:56
She's a child. But there was that kind of attitude,
11:00
wasn't there? Yeah, 100%. There are some of them
11:06
that we will have as our wives, or whatever.
11:09
And the rest are dogs. Pfft! Oh, unbelievable.
11:21
These are not my opinions. Okay, buddy. All right,
11:27
pal. These are not my opinions. I do not condone
11:32
the way that this movie treats Native American
11:35
people. Oh, God. So, because of this controversy,
11:40
in 20... 21 uh disney actually took it off the
11:45
kids only uh thing because it's now considered
11:48
only like you know uh seven years and older you
11:53
can you're allowed to watch this even though
11:55
when you press play on it it says ages zero and
11:58
up so I don't know what that's about. I don't
12:01
really get what the point of that is. Like, what
12:03
difference does it make if a three -year -old
12:04
or a seven -year -old watches it? Watches some
12:07
racism and then thinks it's good and then joins
12:10
the KKK. I guess seven is the age that they're
12:14
saying, we think you could have a conversation
12:16
with your child that this is not good at that
12:17
age, but I don't know. Yeah. Also, Eric Goldberg
12:20
said that all of the Indians were caricatures.
12:25
And he was not impressed. He is the director
12:30
of Pocahontas. I don't know where I'm going with
12:36
this. I know what you mean. They were trying
12:38
to be better. Yes, they were trying to be better.
12:42
This is crazy. They also say that the red man
12:46
is red because he kissed someone and he blushed.
12:53
And they've all... And we've all not stopped
12:56
blushing since. We've never got over it. Jesus
13:00
Christ! That would have been on little albums
13:05
as well, I bet. Oh, 100%. There would have been
13:09
kids getting their cassettes and stuff like that
13:12
running around. TikTok Croc was probably hitting
13:15
the gritty to it. He probably was. But yeah,
13:22
other than the racism, what did you think of
13:24
this film, Andy? I'll tell you what I'll do.
13:26
Before I tell you what I think of it, I'm going
13:27
to give you a quick rundown of what this film's
13:29
about. That's a great shout, Andy. Sorry, we
13:32
just jumped into the racism there. We're drawn
13:36
to it. I've seen it before as a kid, and I couldn't
13:41
really remember much. But basically, it's a film
13:45
about these three kids in London. They're messing
13:48
about, playing about. The dad's like... because
13:50
wendy's like i think she's like 10 she's on the
13:53
verge of like teenager puberty sort of era yeah
13:56
you need to grow up wendy and stop believing
13:58
in peter pan and all this stuff dad hates peter
14:00
pan he's like human at the mention of him he
14:03
he is the epitome of a person with no whimsy
14:06
he calls he calls peter pan poppycock and all
14:10
the kids like it's like he just said a slur like
14:15
they're like what the fuck you can't say that
14:18
yeah The way that one kid's, like, shaking his
14:23
head about, like, he called Peter Pan absolute
14:25
poppycock. So they go out, they're like, you
14:28
need to grow up, Wendy. The dad's also played
14:29
by the same actor as Hook. That's, like, a thing
14:32
that they did in the play, apparently, as well.
14:34
They did the dual role thing. So that's quite
14:35
cute. Yeah, because I thought he looked... He's
14:39
got, like, elements of Hook as well. He looks
14:42
a little bit like him. And I thought that when
14:45
they went to Neverland, it was like... a representation
14:48
of, like, the dad's kind of hatred for the stories
14:51
of Peter Pan. But then there's no connection.
14:54
Like, apart from the voice actor, there's no
14:57
connection. No, I think it's just an homage to
15:00
that play thing. Yeah, must be. Basically, these
15:02
three kids, Peter Pan suddenly turns up, he's
15:05
lost his shadow. and they're like oh it's peter
15:07
pan and they he's like do you want to come with
15:10
me to neverland because your dad wants you to
15:12
grow up and that's lame they fly to neverland
15:14
they have some fun captain hook doesn't like
15:17
peter pan he's a pirate they have battles captain
15:19
hook captures the native american chief's daughter
15:23
to frame it on peter pan and then they save her
15:26
with it Blah, blah, blah. Tinkerbell betrays
15:28
Peter Pan for a bit and then she doesn't and
15:30
then there's a fight on the ship and then they're
15:31
all mates and they go home. I didn't care for
15:34
this. No, I thought this was... Absolute poppycock.
15:38
I think there's parts that I enjoy. I think Hook
15:41
is genuinely excellent. He's... I'm so on board.
15:47
He's a great villain. He's the character. He
15:51
should be... It's his movie. It is his film.
15:55
It should have been just a Hook film. I like
15:57
the, when the TikTok croc comes, the animation
16:01
on Hook, like, kind of, like, tweaking out at
16:05
every beat of the TikTok. Oh, it's unreal. He's
16:09
got such, like, crocodile clock trauma. It's
16:13
crazy. It's so cool. And I love that they're
16:17
just, like, they barely even talked about it.
16:20
you know they mention it a little bit and then
16:22
it's like they mention it like smeeze like really
16:25
an asshole about it as well like because apparently
16:28
peter pan has cut off his hand and fed it to
16:30
a crocodile and smeeze like well captain you
16:33
should really get over it was just a childish
16:34
prank it's like that's not a prank that's beautiful
16:36
and even hooks like yes yes cut my hand off was
16:41
all fun and games but i draw my i draw the line
16:44
and feed it to the crocodile That was a step
16:47
too far. You ruined it. How dare you. This is
16:53
like skipping to the end a bit but when Captain
16:56
Hook gets defeated and the crocodile's coming
16:58
after him and I can't remember how it happens
17:00
but he gets like I think like the croc's trying
17:03
to snap down on him and it brings Captain Hook
17:05
forward and he's like splashing across the water
17:08
and you can hear him scream but it's like across
17:13
the water fantastic the animation step up from
17:18
cinderella to this is fucking insane like this
17:24
looks so good the animation on peter pan is amazing
17:29
like he genuinely when he's flying and stuff
17:32
like that when all of them are flying like there's
17:34
still some rotoscoped sections but the animation
17:37
is gorgeous in this it's a shame about the rest
17:41
of the film because i think i don't know i it's
17:44
just eh i don't care really yeah it's just like
17:48
i really like hook i think peter pan's a bit
17:51
of a wanker um oh he sucks I hate his face. I
17:58
cannot stand it. Also, Tinkerbell's a fucking
18:00
bellend. Yeah, they all suck, really. Like, every...
18:05
It's weird. Every, like, woman in Neverland just
18:09
hates other women. It's so weird. The mermaids
18:13
try and drown Wendy. And then they're like, ah,
18:15
let's play it. And then at the end, Wendy's like,
18:18
oh, mother, it was amazing. And she's talking
18:20
about it. And she's like, and there were mermaids.
18:24
You're like... gassing up the mermaids when they
18:26
tried to fucking kill you what are you talking
18:29
about yeah so I think according to some experts
18:35
on the original author the way that they do Peter
18:39
Pan in this is accurate because I think the original
18:42
plays a bit darker in how it treats it but it's
18:45
essentially like this heartless sociopath because
18:48
it's someone who doesn't grow up physically but
18:51
emotionally has no like emotional growth but
18:53
i think to only go halfway on that but then still
18:56
treat him like this great swashbuckling hero
18:59
doesn't work it kind of comes off like why should
19:02
i care about this freak yeah also what is he
19:05
a nonce why does he have pixies he's a fucking
19:09
nonce well he's a child i don't think you can
19:12
he's a nonce he's an everlasting nonce yeah i
19:18
think most of the characters in this suck like
19:19
wendy's fine but doesn't really have much to
19:23
do like it's meant to be her story a bit like
19:26
of like she has this fun and adventure and whimsy
19:29
but then i guess at the end her decision to return
19:32
from neverland is her decision to accept growing
19:36
up but i don't think the film handles that super
19:39
well Yeah, and to become a mother and all of
19:43
this, and it's like, oh, mums are mint, actually.
19:47
And that was nice, like, kind of reminding the
19:49
Lost Boys of their mums. But, like, nothing ever
19:54
comes from it. They decide they're not going
19:56
to leave Neverland. It's just the kids, like,
20:00
just Wendy, Michael, and John who are going to
20:03
leave. Yeah. In the original play, the darling...
20:08
family adopt all the lost boys which is mad like
20:12
they go out for the theater one night and they
20:13
come back and there's like seven children i guess
20:17
we'll adopt them like that's mental yeah because
20:20
they said that they said like that's what wendy
20:23
said she was like you can come live with us and
20:26
it's like and then they were like nah we're all
20:28
right we're gonna stay here and be a little fucking
20:31
animal wearing goblins i also found it funny
20:35
that wendy's entire motivation for wanting to
20:37
go to neverland is that she doesn't want to be
20:39
pushed into growing up but the way peter like
20:42
introduces the idea of going to neverland to
20:44
her is like we could use a mother it's like you
20:47
don't want to grow up but you do want to be mother
20:49
to eight feral children it's very strange it's
20:53
a weird film she's so oh yeah she's like hell
20:57
yeah and then she realizes that she's not having
21:00
fun and like is getting ignored and she's like
21:04
i want to go home and then like her brothers
21:07
are having the best time they're all doing the
21:09
very racist dance with the indians and uh having
21:14
the best time while doing it yeah and it really
21:16
holds on to that for quite a lot of the rest
21:19
of the film that's the movie in it pretty much
21:22
I think Tinkerbell's a character that came out
21:24
of this remarkably well for what she is, because
21:27
I don't like her at all. I hated her. What a
21:32
little prick. She's just a jealous, mute little
21:36
rat. I don't understand why this character is
21:40
so beloved now. It's crazy. Good design, don't
21:45
get me wrong. oh great design like genuinely
21:47
but it's weird that this became such a beloved
21:51
character from this film and i guess from the
21:55
next one but like she has like her own which
21:58
we'll get into in next week's before ever before
22:00
but she does have like her own spin -offs as
22:03
well like i think six of them like people really
22:06
like this character we are not covering those.
22:09
We are not. I refuse. If there was any hesitation
22:14
in my mind of like, we maybe should do those,
22:17
that's gone. I don't like this character. I really
22:21
don't like her. That's Peter Pan. It's average.
22:30
Maybe less than average. I didn't really like
22:32
it. I didn't care for it. I totally see why some
22:37
kids would. But the only thing that I loved,
22:40
and I really, really emphasised loved, is Captain
22:44
Hook. Agreed. Hans Conreid, who played Captain
22:47
Hook in this, does such a good job. And the animation
22:50
on him is great. He's just so fun. He just brings
22:53
so much life to this character. He's so flamboyant
22:56
over the top. He's mental in the best way. He's
23:01
just so commanding on the screen. And, ah, he's
23:06
great. top villain honestly he deserves to be
23:09
in the disney villains game i have a couple of
23:12
quick trivia notes before we return to neverland
23:15
so apparently what i mentioned there with the
23:17
original author jm barry writing it so peter's
23:20
a bit heartless and stuff walt disney would never
23:22
felt satisfied with the movie because of that
23:24
he found the character off -putting so he did
23:27
actually agree with us on that funnily enough
23:29
interesting uh something interesting that i did
23:31
note like did you see at the beginning the copyrights
23:35
have a strange disclaimer where Disney fans...
23:38
It's a children's hospital in London. So the
23:45
original author actually donated the rights to
23:48
them, to the children's hospital. And I think
23:52
that as a child in a children's hospital, having
23:56
your mascot be the idea of a child who never
23:59
gets to grow up is very... off -putting oh my
24:03
god i did not even think of that that's oh my
24:07
god yeah so this is also a bit weird because
24:11
apparently in the original play wendy's mother
24:13
because in this they do talk about peter panik
24:16
he's a legendary figure and in the original play
24:18
wendy's mother believes peter pan is a fairy
24:21
-like spirit that takes kids after they pass
24:24
away to the next part of like you know the afterlife
24:27
no crumbs So that's such a weird thing to have
24:31
an hospital for kids. Yeah, that is wild. I guess
24:36
the 1900s were different. They were built different.
24:40
There was no TikTok Crocs back in our day. In
24:44
the play as well, the Lost Boys are infants who
24:47
fell from the prams and when they grew up, Peter
24:50
would, and I quote from the novel, thin them
24:54
out to reduce any challenges to his rule. Huh?
24:59
So Peter Pan seemingly killed the Lost Boys if
25:03
they grew up. That's why you don't grow up in
25:05
Neverland. Huh? Very cool. Very cool. i would
25:15
love to see an adaptation of this that goes into
25:18
all this weird horrible stuff so apparently in
25:21
the original play there's an ending it's like
25:23
an epilogue ending peter pan comes back to visit
25:25
wendy also in the original play peter pan forgets
25:28
who you are like very instantly like like he
25:31
kills captain hook and then he's like they're
25:33
like oh if i got captain hook's gun he's like
25:34
who what are you talking about like because what
25:36
he's just got no object permanence oh my god
25:42
he really doesn't grow up he returns to wendy
25:46
not because oh i miss wendy it's because like
25:50
i looked it up it's this idea in his mind of
25:52
a mother figure so he goes there and that's when
25:54
he meets wendy's daughter jane which plays in
25:57
uh what we're going to talk about soon but disney
26:00
cut this epilogue from the movie in order to
26:03
avoid it being open to a follow -up so fucking
26:06
whoops Oh, little did they know that Disney would
26:11
get the sequel fever. Wait until you're in your
26:15
cryo chamber. Oh my god, that's so funny. And
26:20
then it's worth just mentioning the actor for
26:23
Peter Pan has a really sad story. So Bobby Driscoll
26:26
plays Peter Pan. This was part of his promising
26:29
career start as a little kid. He started in...
26:32
We don't talk about it now. But he was a lead
26:35
in Song of the South. Oh, no. He was nine then.
26:38
And Walt Disney seems to have a lot of affection
26:40
for him and signed a contract. But following
26:42
Peter Pan coming out, Bobby Driscoll into puberty,
26:45
Walt Disney was saying he now looks better suited
26:49
to a bully than a likable lead. It eventually
26:51
led to the kid getting fired from his contract
26:53
early. It tanked his career. He went back to
26:57
school because acting's not working out anymore.
27:00
But then the kids in school would always bully
27:01
him because of all of his acting stuff. He started
27:04
to turn to drugs. He was already on heroin by
27:07
age 17. Oh, my God. And by age 31, his corpse
27:12
was found by two children. in like an abandoned
27:15
sort of like district uh they couldn't identify
27:17
the corpse so his unclaimed body was buried in
27:20
a mass unmarked grave and his parents didn't
27:23
even find out he died until one year later what
27:27
the fuck yeah this i did not know any of that
27:32
that is depressing as hell it is oh my god if
27:37
have you seen chip and dale Have you seen Chip
27:42
and Dale? What a fucking U -turn. Have you seen
27:50
Chip and Dale? No, I've seen the new one, yeah.
27:59
So, Peter Pan is the villain in that. And it's
28:03
like, what happened to Peter Pan after the movie?
28:06
And he's like a schlubby middle -aged man. Oh,
28:09
shit. it feels like a very cruel joke like I
28:13
don't know if the because Lonely Island wrote
28:15
that I don't know if like that was their critique
28:17
of Disney like how they took this kid and churned
28:20
him up and spat him out probably yeah but for
28:23
that to get past Disney like some people take
28:26
it as like a really mean spirited joke on like
28:29
against Bobby Driscoll but I don't think it is
28:32
like if you look at the way the movie treats
28:34
it it seems like it's a criticism of this corporate
28:38
thing yeah 100 it's gotta be yeah because it's
28:41
a lot of disney kids and they really need like
28:44
a better exit strategy for these kids to like
28:47
look after them because that's such a horrible
28:48
vulnerable place to be like as a little kid like
28:51
to be that exposed yeah i'm sad now yeah should
29:00
we get even sadder should we return to neverland
29:02
could be happy let's let's give it a shot let's
29:05
try it yeah so peter pan fuck me hang on i might
29:10
need to take a second that was brutal yeah it's
29:13
bad isn't it that's genuinely horrible i know
29:17
and there's like i think like there's some things
29:19
now you see happen like miley cyrus seems to
29:21
have struggled a bit mentally after leaving disney
29:24
and she's bounced back she's got like a really
29:25
good career now for herself but like same with
29:28
like macaulay culkin yeah but you got loads of
29:30
examples like eddie furlong from terminator 2
29:32
and that kid who played anakin skywalker in phantom
29:35
menace there seems to be this like really horrible
29:38
pattern of, like, what can happen to these stars.
29:41
Yeah. Did Corey Feldman go off the rails for
29:45
a bit? Yes, he did, yeah. Apparently Corey Feldman
29:48
is in Dancing with the Stars this season. Oh,
29:51
shit. I thought he was dead. I genuinely thought
29:54
he was dead. No, he's alright. He's fine. Get
29:58
on him. You might want to take that back, because
30:01
there's currently investigations going on about
30:04
sexual harassment with him. No. No. And that's
30:11
on record, baby. Andy Stevens. Corey Feldman.
30:16
Bad on him. Bad boy. Oh, dear. Oh, dear, dear,
30:25
dear. I wish Jason got him. I've said that all
30:30
along. unless he's proven innocent in which case
30:35
I'm glad Jason died or whatever happens in that
30:38
movie I can't remember oh god that's funny anyway
30:44
Andy let's return to Neverland Return to Neverland.
31:00
So this film was directed by Robin Budd. And
31:05
if that name sounds familiar, then who are you?
31:09
I would like to know who you are. Because this
31:12
man, all he has done is he directed the TV show.
31:18
Of Beetlejuice. He did 21 episodes of that. There
31:20
was a TV show? Yep. It ran from 1989 to 1990.
31:25
And I don't know how many episodes there were,
31:27
but he directed 21 episodes. Jesus. His next
31:34
job was 12 years later when he did Return to
31:38
Neverland. Right. And then he did a show called...
31:45
Gerald McBoingboing. After that, he did a couple
31:53
of other little TV shows. Ruby Gloom, Producing
31:57
Parker, Truck Town. And then some of his most
32:03
recent stuff, or really the most recent TV series
32:07
that he's done, is 51 episodes of Hotel Transylvania,
32:13
the TV show. There was a TV show of that? Yep.
32:18
And he did 51 episodes of it. This seems like
32:21
the guy to go to when you want your film to have
32:23
a spin -off TV show that no one ever hears about.
32:26
Exactly. Or Gerald McBoingboing. Oh, dear. So,
32:34
this was written by Temple Matthews and... carter
32:40
crocker and i bet you're wondering what those
32:42
guys did as well um temple matthews not loads
32:48
he did uh a lot of tv shorts some um like straight
32:55
to video stuff uh he did he wrote um little mermaid
33:00
2 which we will cover eventually He wrote Return
33:05
to Netherland. He wrote 101 Dalmatians 2. Aloha
33:10
Scooby -Doo. And not too much else. And then
33:18
Carter Crocker. Bloody hell. He's done a lot.
33:24
He's written a lot of Winnie the Pooh stuff.
33:29
New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh. New Adventures
33:34
of Peter Rabbit, Beauty and the Beast, Belle's
33:38
Magic World. And then he must have got a really
33:41
good gig because basically everything else is
33:44
Barney the Dinosaur. Like so much Barney. He
33:49
wrote for Barney 2007 to 2017. So 10 years of
33:56
Barney. God damn. Fair enough. Yeah. If he's
33:59
enjoying it. Exactly. He must have had a great
34:02
time. But he was writing. He was head writer
34:04
for a while. Oh, he also wrote Darkwing Duck.
34:07
And this is one for you. The Robocop Alpha Commando
34:12
TV series. He wrote 40 episodes of this. It was
34:16
a TV show. This had a budget of 20 million. We
34:25
actually have the box office this time. This
34:28
is crazy. We can actually see what happened and
34:32
when it released and everything. We theorized
34:35
last episode that the reason we couldn't get
34:37
the box office was because there was no theatrical
34:39
release in the States. And this was going to
34:41
be like the breaker, wasn't it? So I guess we
34:43
were right. Return to Neverland released at the
34:49
same time as John Q, Hearts War, Crossroads,
34:55
Super Troopers. umberato d and scratch um i've
35:02
heard of all on the same day no me neither this
35:05
uh released it had a domestic opening of 11 uh
35:09
million so basically like half of its budget
35:13
came back and then worldwide it was about 115
35:16
million box office overall Joel McNeely was on
35:21
the score again. We know him from Cinderella
35:24
2 and Cinderella 3. We do. Good score again.
35:27
And to be fair, good score. Not the musical moments
35:33
in this film, but we'll get into that in a little
35:35
bit. Yeah, the score was good, though. Yeah,
35:38
the score was great. I think this is the first
35:40
time in any of these that I've heard them use
35:43
a theme from the original one, like the Peter
35:46
Pan theme is in it. You know what I mean? rather
35:49
than just a song. Notable people, the replacement
35:52
actor for Hook is Corey Burton, who we discussed
35:59
last time, who is Gus in Cinderella 2 and Cinderella
36:05
3. And Shockwave. Don't forget Shockwave. Shockwave
36:10
and Cad Bane. And all in Cinderella 3. It wasn't
36:18
his first Disney role, but it was before Cinderella
36:21
2 and Cinderella 3. Just while you're on, Corey
36:24
Burton as well, he fucking crushes it in this
36:27
movie. If you watched them and had no idea of
36:30
the 50 -year gap, then obviously you'd think,
36:33
this has got to be a different actor. But if
36:35
you didn't know that, it's seamless. I watched
36:39
these back -to -back, and he crushes his impression
36:42
of Hook. I disagree. Really? I really disagree.
36:47
I think he sounds so different. Oh, my God. I
36:51
thought he was incredible. Oh, it's crazy to
36:53
me. He's nothing compared to the OG. I think
36:56
he doesn't capture it at all. Oh, that's a shame.
36:59
I did read as well that Corey Burton was apparently
37:02
a student -ish of Hans Conrad as well. So I guess
37:08
he might have put some effort in. But it's a
37:10
shame he didn't capture it for you because I
37:11
thought he was spot on. I thought he was fantastic.
37:14
yeah i don't know what it was like i like as
37:17
soon as hook came on i was like oh this doesn't
37:19
sound half as good as the original voice actor
37:23
but i mean it's a shame that it didn't work for
37:26
me but it worked for you so that's good i think
37:29
based on that alone i think i know where you're
37:31
gonna fall on this film because you literally
37:36
just said the one thing that you liked in the
37:38
first one was this guy i think this is a weird
37:44
one to recap because it's kind of like well let's
37:49
just do it um return neverlands like 40 years
37:52
after the first one uh so wendy's about 50 in
37:55
this we assume it's during world war ii uh the
37:58
dad's off at war and the kids she has two kids
38:02
one boy one girl the girl's called jane and she's
38:05
had to grow up really fast because she's in war
38:08
-torn London so she's kind of skipped past this
38:10
entire like playful era of her childhood whereas
38:13
her brother is kind of hiding in that like Wendy
38:16
kind of like encourages him to think like these
38:19
aren't bombs dropping these are Captain Hook's
38:21
cannons and all this kind of stuff which kind
38:24
of like leads to a bit of an argument between
38:26
them where Jane is a bit like rude to the brother
38:29
like I don't have time for your bloody stories
38:32
and the mother's like Come on, man, like, it's
38:35
a little boy in war -torn London. Yeah, even
38:38
though she's kind of interested, like, there
38:40
is a scene where they're in the bomb shelter
38:42
and she's, like, taking notes from the radio
38:44
and stuff, and then you can see her, like, looking
38:47
over as Wendy is, you know, doing all of these
38:52
stories. She is kind of interested, but... It's
38:56
like she almost feels guilty for wanting to be
38:58
a kid. Side note, they have a dog which looks
39:01
exactly like the dog from the first one, Nana.
39:03
But this dog's called Nana 2, which is an absurd
39:06
name. What a horrible... You can't just call
39:09
your dog a sequel. In the subtitles, Nana 2 is
39:12
spelt as one word, like Mewtwo, which I found
39:15
funny. That's really funny. But also, 40 years,
39:20
this isn't Nana 2. This is Nana 4, maybe. I was
39:24
going to say, calling it Nana 2 is a little bit
39:27
strange. But then suddenly Captain Hook turns
39:30
up in a flying... I was going to say spaceship.
39:34
I mean, technically, it's a spaceship of some
39:38
kind. I guess, yeah, he's got a flying pirate
39:41
ship. He wants to kidnap Wendy to pull back into
39:44
those stupid little games of Peter Pan, but he
39:46
gets the wrong girl, kidnaps Jane. Jane's in
39:48
Neverland. and shenanigans issue again it's just
39:52
the same again uh back and forth on like i want
39:56
to be peter the only difference is that wendy
39:59
really wanted to be there and she wanted to believe
40:01
whereas jane's kind of against the entire thing
40:03
she doesn't believe she doesn't want to take
40:05
any part and will it break under her icy exterior
40:09
and she learns how to be a kid fucking yes obviously
40:13
so what did you i think i know but what did you
40:16
think of this one uh this is the same film yeah
40:21
it is isn't it yeah it's the exact fucking same
40:25
apart from they took all the good bits they took
40:28
out tiktok croc he's not doing the gritty anymore
40:30
they replaced him with an octopus that does the
40:33
exact same thing yeah as like to the point that
40:38
there's literal just recreations of scenes where
40:42
like you've got uh the the part where the trauma
40:46
comes in you hear the which is the the octopus's
40:51
suckers uh doing the tiktok kind of thing why
40:55
not just have the fucking crocodile again oh
40:58
because you're literally just taking this scene
41:00
and putting it into the new one it's the fucking
41:03
same thing there's a couple of different things
41:07
but this is essentially the same film But worse.
41:11
There, I said it. It's worse than the original,
41:13
and it's the same thing. I kind of agree. I don't
41:18
know if I'd call it worse or not, and that's
41:20
mainly because I think... I don't know. I think
41:26
the wartime stuff is a good setup where it's
41:28
like this conflict of a kid who has had to grow
41:31
up because of circumstances, and it's kind of
41:34
the opposite of... the original peter pan instead
41:36
of resisting growing up it's kind of like inflict
41:39
like i don't know like i think this is a more
41:42
interesting a repression of childhood kind of
41:45
thing because of yes childhood war trauma and
41:48
i like that part i really do like that part they
41:51
don't really go into it loads no um which i feel
41:55
like they could have done it starts really focused
41:58
on it like she's running around london during
42:01
like the blitz and stuff I think the animation
42:03
in this is a step up from what we've seen so
42:07
far other than Fantasia 2000, technically, because
42:11
they've got more money. But then, other than
42:13
a few bits here and there, they don't do anything
42:16
as clever as what Cinderella 3 or even Bambi
42:21
2 did. Like, there's not as much creativity with
42:25
this extra budget. Yeah, again, it just feels
42:29
like... They've done the first one again. Even
42:33
a lot of like Peter Pan's like animations for
42:36
when he's flying and doing silly things. There's
42:38
a couple of new ones, but it doesn't do anything
42:40
like majorly new. There's a couple, there was
42:44
that nice shot where Nana too and Jane are running
42:49
past the searchlights and it goes into silhouette.
42:52
But that's probably about the only creativity
42:55
they had with the animation. The rest of it is
42:57
just like kind of boring. It's well animated,
43:02
like you say, but they don't really do any creative,
43:06
fun steps in a different direction. The only
43:10
difference I think that they have is this idea
43:12
of Wendy was a kid who was going to be forced
43:18
to grow up, but she didn't want to in her plot.
43:21
and character arc is her resisting grown -up
43:23
and then she realizes she has to get responsibilities
43:25
whereas jane's is more she needs to learn how
43:27
to enjoy her childhood a bit more and yes you
43:30
need to take on these responsibilities but you
43:32
also have to learn how to have fun and be carefree
43:34
and that's an interesting idea but like the first
43:37
one i think very fast it gets lost in this entire
43:41
scramble of like tinkerbell's doing this and
43:42
hooks over here and there's an octopus and it
43:45
doesn't quite work i think um i'm gonna jump
43:49
to the end very quickly here uh so apologies
43:51
but it kind of is relevant what i'm saying spoilers
43:54
she has this entire thing of like she goes back
43:58
and the main conflict of the film at the beginning
44:01
and the main reason they argue is because jane
44:05
and her brother are going to be sent to the countryside
44:07
as often happened during the war to stop the
44:10
kids from being bombed during the blitz yeah
44:13
and she's not happy about this exactly but At
44:17
the end of the movie, she goes through all this
44:19
thing of like, okay, she learns to have fun.
44:21
She learns to engage her brother in that fun,
44:23
magical childhood kind of sense. But then the
44:26
idea that they're going to get moved away, it
44:27
just kind of, it gets resolved. Like the dad's
44:29
just home and it's like, okay. But then also
44:32
like, why is the dad home? The war's still going
44:35
on. And even if he is home, the kids are still
44:37
going to get sent away because the dad being
44:39
home doesn't mean the Nazis have surrendered.
44:41
Like he hasn't come back from killing Hitler.
44:45
there's there's still the blitz is still happening
44:48
like what's gonna happen is it just is the implication
44:52
that the dad's home they don't have to go away
44:57
anymore which doesn't make sense because the
44:59
blitz will still be happening so there's a risk
45:02
that their house is gonna get fucking bombed
45:05
or does it mean that one of the parents stays
45:08
in the house the other one goes with the kids
45:12
to the countryside and then the one in the city
45:16
still just fucking dies like it makes it didn't
45:21
make any sense like i get it it's like oh yay
45:24
dad's home we don't have to worry anymore and
45:26
it's like if you're a kid watching this you're
45:28
like yay the war's over yeah i think like to
45:33
set up this kind of complex kind of background
45:36
to your story in the beginning and then to kind
45:39
of just hand with it at the end it's a bit disingenuous
45:42
and a bit condescending. That was the interesting
45:45
part to me and they didn't follow up on it that
45:47
much. Yeah. Why is Peter Pan not stopping the
45:51
Nazis? Why is he not intervening? Why is he not
45:57
at Hitler's base with his little dagger and that
45:59
stupid little... Dueling Hitler on the fucking
46:08
flag. oh christ yeah um yeah why not just take
46:19
captain hook's ship and go and blow hitler up
46:22
i did wonder as well because like the first film
46:25
ends in a way of uh was this real or was this
46:28
just a dream is this just her subconscious and
46:31
there's like a bit of a thing like the ship's
46:33
in the sky but it's a cloud and the dad's like
46:35
oh yeah uh That's all gone. It is real because...
46:40
Yeah, it's all real. It's either real or shared
46:43
psychosis. Yeah, it's like a parallel dimension
46:47
kind of thing. It treats it like a pocket dimension,
46:51
doesn't it? Yeah! When they travel to... Neverland,
46:55
it's like going through the quantum realm in
46:56
Ant -Man or something. Yeah, it's like a shit
47:00
version of that and a shit version of going into
47:04
the monolith in 2001. It's just really shit.
47:09
I did like the little audio callbacks to the
47:12
original, though. That was quite nice. Well,
47:15
I was going to bring that up because it's nice,
47:16
but then at the same time, to me, that kind of
47:18
insinuates you're going through something. I
47:22
don't know. It sounds almost like you're going
47:24
through a Doctor Who kind of thing. Why are you
47:26
here in the past? Is there something timey wrong
47:29
with this place? Does time literally not work
47:32
in Neverland? Yeah, and maybe that's why they
47:34
don't grow up. Why does the crocodile eat a clock?
47:37
What's the clock for? i just want to mention
47:44
as well right you've already mentioned this the
47:48
octopus is just a fucking crocodile again yeah
47:50
when i looked up at this it's apparently the
47:53
animator said it's because they exhausted all
47:55
the possibilities of the hook versus crocodile
47:57
shit then why did you just make the same character
48:00
why did you just do it again you did it again
48:03
but he's got more arms And it's less interesting.
48:06
Is that fun? Is that fun? No, it's just the same.
48:11
Like, do something completely different. Go crazy
48:15
with it. Why are you just making the same thing
48:17
with more arms? Like, that doesn't... Including
48:20
the TikTok thing. Exactly. It blows my fucking
48:24
mind. It's so weird. It's so bizarre. I think
48:29
Peter Pan himself comes off better in this one
48:31
a little bit. He's not as big an asshole. yeah
48:34
he's still a little prick but he's trying to
48:38
get jane to believe and have fun and be whimsical
48:43
it feels more playful in this one whereas in
48:46
the first one he literally has some lines where
48:48
like wendy's angry from he's like well everyone
48:50
else thinks i'm great why don't you and all this
48:51
stuff thing fuck off yeah proper narcissist moment
48:54
whereas he definitely has some of that cockiness
48:57
in this and um he's playful and he takes the
49:00
mick out of captain hook a lot but it works a
49:02
bit more because there's a bit more hard to him
49:04
like he kind of does actually care about people
49:07
which is nice that's a cool thing yeah i do which
49:10
might be like it might have been from his interactions
49:14
with like wendy and the kids Doesn't seem like
49:17
it, but who knows? But there's a point where,
49:22
because they're kids and they don't have like
49:24
an authority figure. There's a part where Jane
49:28
is in the Lost Boys, like bass kind of thing.
49:31
And Peter Pan's like, I've brought you a mother.
49:34
She's going to tell you stories and all of that.
49:36
And they're like, a mother, a mother. oh my god
49:39
tell us some stories and they're all climbing
49:41
over her and everything and like it's like the
49:44
first time they've ever heard the word no and
49:46
it's so funny the little skunk the kid in the
49:50
skunk outfit his fucking face drops and he looks
49:55
genuinely fuming it's the funniest it was so
49:59
funny it took me so off guard and he's literally
50:02
just like what the fuck did you just say to me
50:07
But yeah, it's really cracked me up a lot. I
50:11
don't like the Lost Boys in this. I think they
50:13
suck. I think they're all annoying. I don't like
50:16
the Lost Boys in the last one either. I think
50:17
they're stupid. No, but I preferred them in that
50:22
than in this. There's one part that I really
50:25
liked them in and it's later in the film where
50:30
Peter's been captured by Captain Hook and he's
50:34
about to walk the plank with an anchor wrapped
50:36
around him. And the lost boys are all tied around
50:39
the mast. And he's like, be brave, lads. Don't
50:43
let them see you cry. they all just shift around
50:47
so they're out of view and start crying it's
50:51
really it's genuinely really funny just well
50:55
on the lost boys as well because it's kind of
50:57
related to what we were talking about before
50:59
one of the actors who plays the lost boys in
51:01
this he plays the chubby one uh dresses like
51:04
a bear and that actor's called spencer breslin
51:06
and he was in cat in the hat he's the kid in
51:09
that uh he's in the santa claus movies i i don't
51:14
think he's great in this but something that's
51:16
worth mentioning which is so mean but it made
51:20
me laugh there's apparently an award show called
51:22
the stinkers bad movie awards wow which i guess
51:26
is like the razzies and they had an award category
51:29
for like worst child actor which they've given
51:32
to spencer breslin a few times actually but he
51:35
didn't just win the award james okay what happened
51:39
They named the category the Spencer Breslin Award
51:43
for Worst Performance by a Child in a Feature
51:45
Role. This kid was 11 at the time. Oh my god!
51:53
It's so mean. It's horrible! The level of hate
51:58
to this little boy. oh my god it's funny but
52:03
again just from what we were talking about before
52:05
where like these kids have like a rough time
52:07
after it's like so mean yeah fuck me I think
52:13
to have that category in the first place Why
52:15
are you having worst kid actor? That's just really
52:17
mean and horrible. To give him the award and
52:20
then name the entire award after him so every
52:23
year after, even when he's not done anything,
52:25
you would be like, this is the Spencer President
52:28
Award for bad acting because he fucking sucks.
52:30
Remember this kid? Remember this kid? He fucking
52:33
sucks. Just no fucking rest for the guy. Jesus
52:37
Christ, that is... quite funny it's funny yeah
52:43
um it's mean and they shouldn't do that but they
52:46
didn't it makes me laugh oh my god his sister
52:49
is little miss sunshine girl lady oh cool yeah
52:53
like really good actor what the fuck it's the
52:58
abigail president award for good child actor
53:05
Oh my god. That's really fucking funny. Back
53:12
to Peter Pan. Tinkerbell has the same shit going
53:15
on in this movie where she's just jealous of
53:17
Jane for no reason. She's more like Stinkerbell
53:21
James. Oh, for real. For real. She should have
53:25
an award for worst fucking side character that
53:29
inexplicably got really popular. the tinkerbell
53:33
award the main conflict in neverland is that
53:37
uh they all treat jane a bit like shit like they're
53:40
just annoying kids and she's like fuck you i'm
53:42
out i want to go home and somehow she just doesn't
53:45
believe in she's like i just don't believe in
53:47
you now and it's like yeah she just met us she's
53:50
face to face with like a magical pixie boy and
53:54
his pixie best friend a load of kids that don't
53:58
age a flying fucking pirate ship and she's like
54:02
no actually i don't believe this And apparently
54:06
the lack of belief from one child is enough to
54:10
almost kill Tinkerbell. Like, she loses her powers
54:13
and if they don't get this one kid to believe
54:15
in her, she's gonna die? Or just lose her powers
54:18
forever or whatever? Her light's gonna go out,
54:20
is what they say. Yeah, is it like the fairy
54:23
equivalent of, like, polio and she has to go
54:25
into, like, an iron lung or something? Fuck!
54:33
Tiny little iron lung. I don't get how this character
54:38
is so underpowered where the belief of one kid
54:41
she's never met before can cripple her. Well,
54:44
they do say if you don't believe in fairies,
54:46
one of them dies. So, like, I guess they're...
54:49
calling back to that one thing and it just turns
54:52
out that this is the fairy that's gonna die or
54:55
pixie or whatever she is the timeline of the
54:58
movie because this is never an issue until wendy
55:00
gets to neverland and then she specifically says
55:03
they don't believe in fairies and walks away
55:04
so the timeline of this movie is insinuating
55:07
that jane believed in them until she met them
55:09
and then she just decided to not believe in them
55:13
with such conviction that it killed one of them
55:21
oh that's so funny so stupid it makes no sense
55:25
you did mention before as well this is the same
55:29
movie as the first one and i agree for the most
55:31
part except for one part where when they're flying
55:35
around neverland they visit the native americans
55:38
camp and it is empty barren they've kicked them
55:44
out the racism went to a next level and there's
55:50
just there's like the teepees and a totem pole
55:52
are still there there's no one there they have
55:56
been ousted very weird decision i think you probably
56:03
better just not show it rather than just show
56:05
it and be like they're all gone yeah just like
56:08
just be like it didn't happen that was a dream
56:10
this is the real one following the scene that
56:14
we just mentioned where jane doesn't believe
56:16
in fairies and storms off there's a scene with
56:18
her and captain hook where hook learns about
56:20
this and he's like i'll use this to get my get
56:23
me treasure back apparently peter pan stole his
56:27
treasure for whatever reason and they have this
56:29
conversation where Hook kind of pretends like
56:31
I don't want to be here either I want to leave
56:33
but the metal mutiny if I leave without my treasure
56:35
and Corey Burton's doing an excellent job if
56:38
I say so and you probably disagree no I do you
56:41
know what I really liked that scene I really
56:43
like that scene I like when he gets his pocket
56:45
watch out and he's like I need to get back to
56:47
my mother and it's just him it's him like a little
56:53
bit of blusher on it's like a wig because he's
56:55
already got long hair yeah he's still got that
56:57
mustache as well in it oh it's great this is
57:02
a scene that I distinctly remember like I've
57:05
seen this movie as a kid I don't remember any
57:07
of it except for this scene because Captain Hook
57:10
says to Jane oh I want to leave too and you want
57:13
to leave it's so sad but what if you get my treasure
57:16
back and then I show the men and they're all
57:18
happy and then I can fly out of here on my magic
57:20
ship and I'll take you home Peter Pan doesn't
57:22
even need treasure anyway which is not a lie
57:24
he's just an asshole yeah he's just stealing
57:26
it for no reason so she's like okay well he doesn't
57:30
need it but you gotta promise you're not gonna
57:32
hurt Peter and he's like well but of course I'm
57:34
a man of my word and he is he's shown in the
57:37
first one to be him quote unquote man of his
57:39
word as well like he is but very specifically
57:42
he's not going to touch peter with his hands
57:46
but it'll leave a bomb in this fucking house
57:49
so in this one he writes a little contract up
57:54
and he says i promise i will not touch a single
57:56
hair on peter's head and um later on when they
58:00
capture peter because she doesn't she basically
58:03
she decides not to betray peter she's like ah
58:05
these guys are actually fun but then one of the
58:07
lost boys blows captain hook's little tracker
58:10
whistle to let him know where the treasure is
58:12
and the pirates arrive immediately it's like
58:14
they teleported there it's like there's there's
58:18
not a second gap like he blows the whistle and
58:20
they're repelling down it's like the swat team
58:22
fbi open up how the hell did they know already
58:27
and if they did why are we doing this entire
58:29
thing yeah but You get the culmination of Captain
58:33
Hook's man of his word thing, which this has
58:35
stuck in my head since I was a kid. Jane goes,
58:38
you promised not to hurt him. And Captain Hook's
58:41
like, I said I would not harm a single hair on
58:44
his head. And he rips a hair out of Peter's head
58:47
and he goes, and this is the hair. And I remember
58:51
as a kid, I was like, holy fucking shit, he got
58:54
us so bad. I didn't know you could do that. he
59:01
didn't even lie he didn't he told the truth it
59:06
blew my mind as a kid i was like this is the
59:09
biggest betrayal i've ever seen in screen that's
59:13
i genuinely i was i was speaking a pile before
59:17
this uh shout out to josh and i was literally
59:20
describing this movie i was like the only fucking
59:22
thing i remember from this is this scene and
59:24
i described it in such vivid detail and when
59:26
i was re -watching it i was like i got it exact
59:28
like in my head like like a core memory i haven't
59:33
seen this in 23 years it scarred me so much oh
59:39
my god you realize that contracts were flawed
59:43
from that point wording is very important and
59:50
also like he's a guy who spends his entire life
59:52
trying to kill a kid like this little thing that
59:55
he has to be a man of his word is like it's so
59:57
silly but whatever it's great yeah so then jane
1:00:02
starts believing tinkerbell comes back she helps
1:00:05
her fly there's a climax there is uh hook gets
1:00:10
fed to the to the sea beast uh insert whichever
1:00:14
sea beast you would like tiktok or uh tiktok
1:00:18
octopus they do like the same ending as well
1:00:21
where fun animation again but like it's captain
1:00:25
hawk like getting like shot across the sea and
1:00:27
and the and the lads follow the rest of the pirates
1:00:30
following him in the boat it's the exact same
1:00:33
thing and i was just like oh this is the same
1:00:36
tinkerbell gives gives jane a shitload of pixie
1:00:39
dust and then she flies back and then she wakes
1:00:41
up and she's like oh my god was it a dream i
1:00:44
don't know she runs over and then she's like
1:00:47
oh my god my brother would you like to hear about
1:00:51
captain hook because i did it and then wendy's
1:00:54
like oh no way she actually went and she looks
1:00:57
out the window and i thought they were going
1:00:59
to do it where they weren't going to speak and
1:01:01
i was i wrote down just say hello you fucking
1:01:03
coward because Peter Pan is just being a weird
1:01:07
little creep and just not saying hello. He's
1:01:10
just hidden around the corner. But then, yeah,
1:01:13
he actually says hello to Wendy. And it was quite
1:01:16
nice. I did enjoy that part. It was very... That
1:01:20
was done really well, yeah. It kind of made me
1:01:23
emotional, even though I had no attachment to
1:01:25
the original film or the sequel. Agreed. It's
1:01:28
like a really genuinely nice part. peter pan
1:01:32
doesn't exactly know how to feel because he's
1:01:35
like you grew up this is weird to me and she's
1:01:39
annoyed like almost at first and it's a it's
1:01:43
genuinely a really interesting dynamic between
1:01:45
them and it's a really nice moment and then um
1:01:49
he has this there's a really good line where
1:01:52
he says to her like you've changed and she goes
1:01:54
like never like not at all yeah she still has
1:01:58
that child play with her exactly yeah which is
1:02:02
like a really lovely line and he's it's like
1:02:05
he realizes that grown -ups can be like inner
1:02:08
children too kind of thing uh they they don't
1:02:11
lose their whimsy and yeah it was it was nice
1:02:14
and then you get the dad coming back and then
1:02:16
suddenly everything's fixed and uh the war is
1:02:20
over and um i'm assuming That after that, two
1:02:24
bombs get dropped on Japan. Oh my god. Do you
1:02:30
think Peter Pan interfered? Yeah, he dropped
1:02:32
them. We know how racist he is. Another one of
1:02:39
his childish pranks. Alright, Tinkerbell, put
1:02:43
just enough dust on these so they start dropping
1:02:49
now. We might have to cut all of that. We might
1:02:56
have to cut that whole last bit. I don't think
1:03:00
we can say that. Can you imagine, like, the Japanese
1:03:04
citizens, like, looking up as the bomb drops
1:03:06
and he's, like, kind of there. But it's, like,
1:03:08
his shadow, like, devoid from that thunderbolt.
1:03:16
He's doing that little pose where he's got his
1:03:18
legs, like, up and, like... to the sides kind
1:03:22
of thing. He just holds up two middle fingers
1:03:25
as well. Oh, fucking hell. Another nation of
1:03:32
children who'll never grow up. Fuck me. Oh my
1:03:45
god. Wow. Yeah. so that's that's be a fan return
1:03:53
to netherland uh there was something that i did
1:03:57
find interesting that uh wendy was meant to originally
1:04:00
be played by catherine brumont who played her
1:04:03
in the original uh she said that she went back
1:04:05
and did like voice recordings for it and everything
1:04:07
but they eventually just recast her with kath
1:04:10
susie who does a good job in it don't get me
1:04:13
wrong but why I don't know if her voice just
1:04:17
didn't sound right for the character anymore
1:04:19
or whatever, but I think that reunion at the
1:04:21
end would have been so much more touching if
1:04:24
you could have kept Catherine Brumont. Yeah,
1:04:28
it would have been lovely. And the only other
1:04:30
thing is that apparently there was... I couldn't
1:04:32
find much source of this, so it could be crap,
1:04:34
but there was apparently sources for a third
1:04:35
film where Peter Pan leaves... He's left Neverland.
1:04:39
He's in England. He's grown up. He's middle -aged.
1:04:42
And then he's needed back in Neverland. But that
1:04:46
sounds so similar to Hook that it probably is
1:04:48
bullshit. Yeah. The only bit of trivia that I
1:04:51
have is a Return to Neverland video game for
1:04:56
the Game Boy Advance. Never mind. What were you
1:05:01
going to say? I said I bet that's badass and
1:05:04
then you said Game Boy Advance and I lost interest.
1:05:06
Apparently another was released on the PlayStation
1:05:08
and PC so one of them could have been badass.
1:05:12
But yeah, apparently it follows some levels from
1:05:17
the first film, the 1953 film, and then it's
1:05:21
got the ones from the new one. And all it says
1:05:25
is, Tinkerbell has been kidnapped by Captain
1:05:27
Hook, and in order to rescue her, you, as Peter
1:05:31
Pan, must battle the pirates. And that's it.
1:05:34
No. I refuse. She's useless. She's always getting
1:05:38
kidnapped. Killed for no reason. Yeah. What a
1:05:40
loser. Well, that was a film. Should we put it
1:05:45
in our ranking machine? Yeah, let's get it in.
1:05:48
Let's get it in. If you don't know, we have a
1:05:50
ranking system here at After Ever After Industries.
1:05:54
So we put our ranking system on. It's like a
1:05:58
huge machine. you'd see in like Willy Wonka and
1:06:01
the Chocolate Factory where there's loads of
1:06:02
like different steam things just blowing out
1:06:05
it's like making noise like and a little like
1:06:09
the Rude Goldberg kind of song plays where it's
1:06:12
like yeah and it takes all of our thoughts that
1:06:21
we've just spewed out and it puts it through
1:06:25
and it arranges it into one of four categories
1:06:29
so we start at the bottom bargain bin we spit
1:06:33
on these films uh yeah this is this is a film
1:06:37
that's come out and it's so unpopular it goes
1:06:40
straight in the bargain bin it's discounted already
1:06:42
as soon as it comes out to release no one really
1:06:45
wants it uh yeah it's at the bottom of the bargain
1:06:48
bin we don't we don't really care then we've
1:06:50
got straight to video Comes out, doesn't get
1:06:53
a theatrical release. It's all right. You might
1:06:57
pick it up in a pinch. Yeah, check it on Disney
1:07:00
or something. Yeah, exactly. Then we got Diamond
1:07:05
Edition. Ooh, ooh. Nice DVD. Oh, here we go.
1:07:09
Nice Blu -ray. Bonus features. Oh, some nice
1:07:13
bonus features. This is lovely. You know, this
1:07:16
is... It's good. It's really good kind of thing.
1:07:21
It's not quite excellent. It's got some redeeming
1:07:26
factors. Maybe some things that pull it down
1:07:27
a little bit. From the chef's kiss. Mamma Mia.
1:07:32
Disney classics. These are the ones that we...
1:07:36
feel like oh wow this should have been a disney
1:07:40
classic this is this is piece de resistance the
1:07:44
the blu -ray has a 4k version oh it comes with
1:07:48
a slip cover oh it's a steelbook oh it's got
1:07:52
all the features and maybe a bonus disc as well
1:07:54
what it's going on um it maybe meets the original
1:07:58
maybe even exceeds the original you never know
1:08:00
we've had that once before already wait we've
1:08:03
had it twice twice we've had it twice incredible
1:08:07
so andy where are you ranking it so this is tricky
1:08:10
for me because i want to be fair i want to say
1:08:13
i didn't care for the original one so i think
1:08:16
if you did care for the original one if you have
1:08:19
like a space in your heart for that your opinion
1:08:22
on this is going to differ maybe for me as we've
1:08:26
said it's a re it's basically a retell of the
1:08:28
first one with some Some bits it's more interesting,
1:08:31
some bits it's less interesting. So for me, it
1:08:33
didn't really do anything for me. It was just
1:08:35
boring. Even if you get a bit of fun out of it,
1:08:38
I don't think you're going to get much more fun
1:08:39
than the idea of I'm back in this world. I'm
1:08:42
back with these characters that I know. I don't
1:08:44
think there's anything story that adds to it.
1:08:47
I'm going to... Bargain bin. Fuck it. I don't...
1:08:50
I think even if you did love the first one, you
1:08:52
might get a bit of a kick out of being back in
1:08:54
this world again. But nothing enough where you'd
1:08:55
be recommending to people like, oh my god, you
1:08:57
need to see this one because this really deepens
1:08:59
the lore or makes this nice decision or anything.
1:09:03
It's just so similar to the first one that it
1:09:05
can't stand on its own two feet. How about you?
1:09:11
Bargain bin. I genuinely don't think I need to
1:09:15
explain. You've said absolutely everything that
1:09:18
I agree with. I think it might be worth a watch
1:09:23
if it was like so cheap kind of thing in the
1:09:29
bargain bin. You're a really big Peter Pan. you're
1:09:33
a really big peter file you really want to watch
1:09:36
it um and you really want to go back into that
1:09:38
world again but it doesn't do anything new neverland
1:09:42
is exactly the same as it was there's nothing
1:09:44
new you literally see the exact same things it's
1:09:47
the same film but worse yeah i can't put it any
1:09:52
higher than that it is the same but worse with
1:09:56
some very nice parts in it like you know wendy
1:10:00
meeting peter pan again but i cannot rank it
1:10:04
higher than bargain bin i just want to specify
1:10:06
as well i really wanted to like this like this
1:10:09
isn't like me being like i don't want to say
1:10:11
i'm a pedophile on it i really wanted to like
1:10:15
this like i loved captain hook so much the same
1:10:18
god damn i wish i could force myself to love
1:10:21
the rest of this movie i just don't vibe with
1:10:24
peter pan he's just a weird little freak Yeah,
1:10:28
I don't find the world of Neverland interesting
1:10:31
beyond that one villain. Yeah, and they also
1:10:34
barely explore it. They go, oh, here's the sea.
1:10:38
Oh, here's where the mermaids sit. Here's the
1:10:40
most racist island you'll ever see. Yeah, here's
1:10:43
the worst place you've ever been. Yeah, it's
1:10:46
just, it's boring. Like, you'd think with a return
1:10:49
to Neverland they'd go to new places or show
1:10:52
how Neverland has changed kind of thing. Would
1:10:56
you like some reviews? Yeah, I was saying to
1:11:00
you before we did this, I'm really curious on
1:11:02
this one. So, weighted average on Letterboxd
1:11:05
is 2 .9. Fuck, that's pretty good. Out of five.
1:11:08
So it's rated higher. So it has 17 ,153 three
1:11:16
-star ratings, which is 30 % of... of it uh it
1:11:21
also has 3932 five star ratings which is seven
1:11:26
percent of it um jesus so it's leaning very close
1:11:30
to the middle it actually if you go on it it
1:11:33
kind of looks like a middle finger um uh so let's
1:11:38
have a look like as well let's have a look at
1:11:41
some reviews uh Shafralas gave it three stars
1:11:45
and said, missed opportunity to have Captain
1:11:47
Hook fight Hitler. Captain Hook wouldn't fight
1:11:50
Hitler. Yeah, you'd work with him. Well, I wouldn't
1:11:53
go that far. Suspirulium, three stars. Nothing
1:11:58
like a big, nice, big, warm cup of nostalgia
1:12:01
in the morning. So there you go. That's what
1:12:04
you were saying. Yeah, that sounds nice for them.
1:12:07
Natty, five stars. unironically one of my fave
1:12:11
movies ever it's just so peak and amazing i love
1:12:14
every second of it and would re -watch it a million
1:12:17
times and it's better than the original hard
1:12:20
movies ever disagree one and a half stars from
1:12:25
brianna and she says tink dying because no one
1:12:28
is paying uh attention to her iconic agreed two
1:12:34
stars from london the whole city of london Whoa.
1:12:38
It's not, actually. It's a person called London.
1:12:41
Growing up, I didn't have a lot of channels on
1:12:43
television. I also didn't have a ton of recognisable
1:12:46
films. I... Oh, instead of Disney films, I had
1:12:49
a ton of the sequels. I grew up watching Tarzan
1:12:51
2, Little Mermaid 2, this and a few others. It
1:12:55
was very bizarre and still is because I don't
1:12:57
really have fond memories of the original animated
1:12:59
Peter Pan, but I do for this film. This movie
1:13:02
is in no way good. But it does have some elements
1:13:06
that are pretty stirring. Jane is an interesting
1:13:11
enough protagonist, even if they dive too deep
1:13:14
into the too mature arc of the story. If they
1:13:17
had eased up on that, it would have been much
1:13:20
better. She also makes exceedingly bad decisions
1:13:23
later on in the film, and it leads to a plot
1:13:26
that ends up making no sense whatsoever. Great.
1:13:29
Wow. London, if you're listening to this, please
1:13:33
reach out because... The idea that you've grown
1:13:35
up watching exclusively Disney sequels is something
1:13:38
we would love to talk to you about. Yeah, please.
1:13:40
What an interesting person. If you just had nothing
1:13:43
else, but only had something to, Little Mermaid
1:13:47
2, Return to Netherland, stuff like that, we
1:13:49
need to talk to you. We need to know, are you
1:13:52
okay, firstly? We need to examine you. I wasn't
1:13:55
looking at reviews because I didn't want to step
1:13:57
on your toes, but I did notice on the wiki page
1:13:59
that Roger Ebert, who's one of the most famous
1:14:01
critics ever, gave this three out of four. what's
1:14:04
wrong with him i don't know like he would love
1:14:07
to except for the songs he said the songs so
1:14:09
yeah the songs we didn't even talk about that
1:14:12
the songs suck no yeah i didn't care for any
1:14:15
of these songs um i'm kind of i think we didn't
1:14:18
even talk about it because it's just like It's
1:14:21
just, we're used to it now. Yeah, it's weird.
1:14:24
They keep trying to do this kind of pop music
1:14:27
thing that just doesn't tonally fit with the
1:14:31
film. Having said that, I didn't really care
1:14:34
for any of the songs in the first one. I don't
1:14:36
think any of them are that good, other than Never
1:14:37
Smile Like a Crocodile, which isn't even in the
1:14:39
fucking film. Disaster. Captain Hook had a song
1:14:42
in Return to Neverland that got cut and I saw
1:14:46
it on the back of the Blu -ray box. I was so
1:14:48
excited. I fucking love a villain song. And I
1:14:50
popped it in and it sucked ass and I was like,
1:14:52
God's sake, he couldn't even get me this! Anyway,
1:14:57
that was Return to Neverland. I, Andy, don't
1:15:02
want to return to Neverland ever again. I'm really
1:15:07
glad they only made one. Yeah, me too. So, Andy,
1:15:11
where are we off to next now that we've left
1:15:14
Neverland and I never want to return? So, next
1:15:17
is a film I haven't seen. Next is a sequel to
1:15:23
Lady and the Tramp. And the sequel is called
1:15:25
Lady and the Tramp 2 Scamp's Adventure, which
1:15:29
sounds really fun. Who is Scamp? I guess we'll
1:15:35
find out. Looking at the box, Scamp is their
1:15:39
kid. The first one's great. Oh, have you seen
1:15:42
the first one? I think so. No, you haven't. But
1:15:47
it won't just be us talking about Lady and the
1:15:49
Tramp 2. We will actually have a special guest
1:15:51
on, so that'll be exciting. Oh, exciting. Who
1:15:56
could it be? It's Tramp. Oh, Scamp. I told you
1:16:02
to get Scamp, you son of a bitch. Oh, sorry,
1:16:05
Matt. Fucking jump! Oh, God. Well... That's it
1:16:12
for this episode. As always, a huge thank you
1:16:15
to Jotarone for our wonderful theme music and
1:16:20
sting music. We love it so much. It's so good.
1:16:24
It gives us an air of professionalism when we
1:16:27
have so little to go off of. We also would like
1:16:29
to thank Jordan G, who's our producer and who
1:16:33
created the artwork design for the podcast and
1:16:36
our various socials. I would also like to thank
1:16:39
you, James. your animations always tickle me
1:16:43
I'm not wanting to listen back to our podcasts
1:16:46
i hate listening to myself uh which makes editing
1:16:48
it a real fucking chore but uh every time you
1:16:52
release an animation it really tickles me i love
1:16:54
them they're fantastic oh good good yeah more
1:16:57
on the way more on the way and i will thank you
1:16:59
andy for the edit of the podcast even though
1:17:03
you hate hearing yourself back um but you do
1:17:07
a smashing job every single time so thank you
1:17:10
so much um what a nice and thank you Thank you
1:17:14
to you for listening. If you do want to get in
1:17:18
touch, give us an email. Our email is aftereverafterpod
1:17:23
at gmail .com. Andy, where can they find you,
1:17:27
by the way? You can find me on Instagram at oatmansmovies.
1:17:31
That's O -A -T -M -U -N -S movies. You can find
1:17:35
me on Letterboxd under Oaty Boat, where you can
1:17:37
find my terrible opinions glorified. Hell yeah,
1:17:41
brother. You can find me on Instagram at jimmysmerds.
1:17:48
I'm turning that account into a personal and
1:17:51
BTS one for any work that I do. And you can find
1:17:57
me on Letterboxd at narumph, which is N -A -H
1:18:01
-R -U -M -P -H. Yeah. Cool. Should we get the
1:18:08
fuck out of here? Yeah. God, I hate this place.
1:18:13
Andy? Yeah? I'll see you after Ever After. I
1:18:17
will also see you after Ever After. Take care.