Latest / UK Column Radio / Gender archetypes and a healthier society | Jerm Warfare

Transcript

Gender archetypes and a healthier society | Jerm Warfare · UK Column Radio

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: So so.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: My name is Jerm. This is Jerm Warfare, the battle
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: of ideas.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Africa. So you're as far down there as you can get.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: How many countries in the world have names that are
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: also their geographical location? So if you weren't sure of
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: where South Africa is, it's South of Africa. Oh, okay.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: It's not the southern part of Africa.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: But, I mean, think about other countries that have this. Well,
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, that doesn't tell you where it is.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: No. No.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: What does, though? Well, the name South Africa is a
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: very unoriginal name. It's like, oh, we can't think of anything,
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: so we'll just call it South Africa. So, North America
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: isn't a country.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: No, I know.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I don't think there are any. Maybe South Africa is
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: the only one that's actually a country that... describes itself.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: There is the Central African Republic, I guess.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, is there? Okay.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure it had other names back in history,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: you know, with the native population or whatever, I'm sure
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: called it something other than South Africa, right? So that
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: was a white man thing.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Well, it was only given that name, I think, in,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know, 1900 somewhere. I can't remember exactly what
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: year it was. It was like the mid-1900s where we
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: got that name because it was first the Union of
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: South Africa. And then it became the Republic of South Africa.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I guess you could say... The Union of South Africa. No, no, no.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I think when it became the Republic. Actually, technically, it's
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: not South Africa. Technically, it's the Republic of South Africa.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Okay. Very technically, but I don't think anybody even says
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: that anymore. That's why the code is Z-A-R. Z-A means
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Zaid Africa, and then the R is Republic. Okay.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: It's like the Islamic Republic of... Yeah. But that doesn't, again,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: tell you where it is. No, nothing does. I mean,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: even South Africa doesn't tell you where it is.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Well, it does. You have to first know where Africa is.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Well, you have to know where Africa is.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, but I mean, everybody knows that. Excepting Americans, they
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: don't know where Africa is.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, we don't know where Africa is.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Well, you're not American. You're Canadian. No, I'm American.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I have a Canadian passport. I have citizenship in Canada,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: but I would never call myself a Canadian. I mean,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: not because I don't like Canadians. I think Canadians are great.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: But unfortunately, I'm as American as they come. Born of
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: a military family.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay. Yeah.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: My dad was a career naval officer in Annapolis.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: So why are you in Canada? I mean, like, if
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: you're going to choose to go somewhere. I fell in
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: love with a woman.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: That I followed her here. Just like a guy down
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: on the ground, crawling on his hands and knees like
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: a dog.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Women have a pretty strong power over men.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: That is very true. People often think that men rule
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: the world, but I would argue that women... My God, no.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Are you kidding? From behind the scenes.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: That's a myth. That's a myth that the patriarch set up,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: killing witches and having power over women because they're terrified
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: of them. I mean, women have always ruled. I mean,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: not physically, you know, not the same way that men
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: think of ruling. You know, men... Men are manipulators of matter,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: so they rule that. But women are manipulators of relationship.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: I saw a bell curve some years ago. Men are,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: on average, dumber than women. So on the bell curve,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: women take up the majority of the bell. And men
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: sort of hover around the left and right hand side
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: of the curve. The outliers. Yeah, the outliers. But that's
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: why majority of men are inmates. You know, you don't,
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, in terms of prison demographics, it's mostly men
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: around the world. And then also the best of the
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: best are men. The best chefs, best whatever, you name it.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: It's always men. But overall... women dominate, which is also
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: why my wife, for example, doesn't find jackass funny. I
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: find it hilarious. I think it's very funny to ride
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: a bicycle into a tree and.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Then laugh about it. It's always been the thing. I mean,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: women hate the three stooges going back a couple of generations.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: That slapstick male humor, again, you could reduce everything down
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: to what I just said, that the masculine... which are
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: usually embodied in biological males, but not all the time.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: But the masculine archetypes are manipulators of matter. They're material-focused.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: They build things. They do things with their hands. That's
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: why when you say the excellence is masculine or male,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: because most things that we measure like that are material.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Great chefs, great builders, great whatever. Women are masters of
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: relationship and relational things.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: They also create. But also the reason why men are
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: the best at those things is because of testosterone and
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: men like to compete. Women generally are not competitive. No,
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: but that's the same thing. It's the manipulation of the
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: material world. And you compete in order to have access
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: to the material world, to be the one that gets
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: to manipulate things. That's why you compete. And, you know,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: it's all very body focused. I mean, men are very
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: body focused because it's material. So they move things around.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: And women are more, it's more of an ethereal kind of.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Power that they have. in relationship and you know they
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: also are the ultimate creators because they create.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Life so they have that one they have that one
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: over us well they don't create life they kind of
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: bring it bring it into being because they can't create
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: life on their own no.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: But no yeah i mean you can't you can't no
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: well i mean you're you're right but see i'm not
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: i'm With my comments, I'm separating the two. I mean,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I'm making a dichotomy. And the polarity of the dichotomy
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: is essential in good health and positive creation because of
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: what you just said. The two have to go together.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: You know, all this talk of like, oh, if women
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: were running the world, it wouldn't be any war. And
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: men are useless. And I mean, yeah, it's like, you know,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: and you can't go the other way either. If men
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: were the only thing here.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: I'm going to stick with this because I already enjoy
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: this particular talking arc. But there's that whole argument about
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: if women ruled the world, there'd be no wars, et cetera.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: I argue that if women ruled the world, there would
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: be no world. Civilization would implode because women are not
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: designed to. to rule the world, and that's why they
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: don't rule the world, because of the laughably huge gap
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: in strength between men and women. They cannot enforce their
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: own governance. The only way women can rule is if
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: men allow them to. It sounds very offensive, but it's true. No, no, I'm,
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: why am I laughing? People don't like hearing that. But
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: if women were more powerful, think about this for a second, right?
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: If women were more powerful, why don't they overthrow the
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Iranian government, which is all men? Because they can't. It's
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: the power differential between men and women is just so massive.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: That they can't. How are you defining power? Well, physical power, obviously. Yeah, right, right.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: So I think in that area, sure, you could say that.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, the odd thing about it from, it's not
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: my perspective, but from this particular perspective, is that if
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: the world were as it is now, essentially, that it's
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: very materially focused, it's, you know, who gives a crap
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: about God or anything like that. If it were as
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: it is now and just suddenly overnight, all of the
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: rulers of the world, all of the different countries or
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: whatever were females, we would probably collapse into the worst
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: kind of conflict and war and killing that you can imagine.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Because women typically, and I'm probably getting a lot of
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: trouble for saying this, but typically, constantly masculine archetypes when
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: they are put in positions that traditionally have been male-oriented.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: So a woman giving charge to something like a military
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: or a country or whatever are going to probably revert
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: to masculine choices in governing. And they can't do that
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: very well because they haven't Had time to practice it
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: or skillful or whatever. Now, that doesn't mean that there
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: isn't something that they can bring to this idea of relational.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Rather than force, you know, a relational thing. Because women
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: would tend to overshoot the masculine archetypes, the warrior, the king,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: whatever they might be. They would have a tendency to
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: overcompensate that. Now, that's not a dig to all women
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: because not all of them would do that.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: But it's just- No, but okay, but hold on. But
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: you are talking about the general. I mean, everybody likes
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: to use the exception as if it's the rule. It's
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: not the rule. It's the exception. You're talking about the rule.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: No, because I'm saying that because people go, oh, but
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: that's not true because I know women, blah, blah, blah. Yeah,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: we're not talking about those. Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: No, you know, and I'm an archetypal psychologist, so that's
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: essentially where my views on these kinds of things come from.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: The archetypes are ancient patterns that have been around as,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: you know, the moment humans started to exist. And maybe
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: even before that, who knows? Who knows what their origins are?
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: But they're very much like instincts. They're essential patterns of
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: behavior that run across all cultures and have been around forever.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: And they don't necessarily evolve. If they evolve, they evolve
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: the same way a body does. It takes millions of
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: years or hundreds of thousands of years for... An archetype
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: to evolve. So the culture can move very, very quickly
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: and progress through, you know, whatever it's going through very,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: very fast, you know, where, say, 100 years ago, women
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: didn't have the boat and, you know, just crap like that.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: But the archetypes don't adapt to that. They don't evolve
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: into that. They stay the same. So we're essentially, with
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: all of our feminism and patriarchal talk and all of that,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: we're essentially running against the grain of these archetypal systems
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: because they weren't designed the way that we keep insisting
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: on behaving. So, you know, that being said, if all
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: of a sudden we're forced into a situation or we
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: choose to go into a situation where the archetypes are
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: expected to perform a particular way because we've been doing
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: it that way culturally for decades. generations, then it will
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: respond in an off-the-grid way. It will go against the
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: grain still. And that's why I'm saying, I think, you know,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: you hear this all the time, if women ruled the world,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: you know, there would be peace. And then on the
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: other side of that, it's like, no, that doesn't fit.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Because they, yes, if they were just using the feminine archetypes, maybe,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: but But if they're not, if they're using overcompensating like
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: they typically do in the culture, it's going to be
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: worse because they don't have that sense of how to
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: deal with masculine archetypes. And that's, again, the general rule. Yeah, sure,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: there are exceptions. But it's not going to go that way.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: And if it does, the world is not ready for it.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: The world is not ready for a feminine... approach to governance,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: it won't do well. It'll get smashed.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. And it just can't work. It's artificial. So
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: people say, well, there'll be world peace. Well, how about
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: accepting that there has never been peace and there will
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: never be peace? And that's the default position. You have
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: varying degrees of quote-unquote peacefulness. But the nature of testosterone
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: and competition leads to conflict. And of course, then you
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: end up where we are today with multiple agendas all
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: over the place. And even within those sort of oligarch frameworks,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: you've got competition and competing interests that lead to conflict.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: It's even in the animal kingdom. There isn't peacemaking. animal kingdom,
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: everything is a tug of war. Yeah.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know. You know, we can look at, like,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: let's go back to, you know, way back in history,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe around any of these major military conquests,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Genghis Khan, you know, even Alexander the Great, whatever. You know,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: I think what you're talking about applies to that directly.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: I think that the way that humans essentially were powerful
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: and were leaders was through a conflictual, typically military action. Okay.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's actually what's happening today.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: I think it looks like that.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: You know, we have wars going on in Europe and
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: the Middle East and whatever. But I, you know, I
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: think for the most part, all that's bullshit. I mean,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: most of that is just show. It's like... it's not
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: really what's going on with these power struggles. The power
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: struggles are economic, they're resource-oriented, they're, you know, various things
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: like that. And I think that the power struggle now
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: is not individual nations, it's a global conquest for global control,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: you know, through the various things we talk about all
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: the time, the WEF, the the UN, whatever. I mean,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: you've got these factions that put on a show for
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: all of us bozos that are watching it. That like,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, we got war here because masculine bullshit.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: You know, whatever. But just think about this for a
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: second also. Think about who the individual oligarchs throughout history
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: have been. It's almost always been men. Again, it's that
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: testosterone competitive nature coming through. It's just coming through at
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: a technocratic level these days.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're describing it from a physiological perspective using the hormone,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: the testosterone, where I would frame that from an archetypal perspective,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: which includes the physiological, obviously, because we are males and
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: our systems are designed to release a certain, you know, testosterone,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: whatever it might be, because of our physiology, okay? But
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: the archetypes are accessible by any biology. They just don't
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: tend to be activated or constellated by, you know, like
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: the true, let's say, leader king archetype is more likely,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: as we would describe it, is more likely constellated by
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: a biological male. And that has the high testosterone, that
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: has the high competitive, whatever it might be.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: What you're saying reminds me of two podcast episodes that
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I did a while back about feminism, because you're talking
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: about the archetype. And obviously, it's important to always remember
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: what men and women are, because... Because that matters, don't
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: you think? And what Carrie Grace was arguing, she's a great,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: great author. What she argued on my podcast is that
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: feminism actually is an attempt to make women more like men.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Sure it is.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: And if you look at the work of Rachel Wilson,
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: she argues that women's liberation was a cultic in its
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: roots and also absolutely designed to destroy women. what it
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: means to be a man and a woman.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And I mean, again, I would, knowing me,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: I reduce that down to materialism. It's like our entire culture,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: I would say about 90% focus is on the material.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: It's on this flesh and blood. It's on this, you know, whatever.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: It's all material. So wealth and power and everything is
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: defined through the material lens. And the non-material is the divine,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: the sacred, the metaphysics, whatever. That's the non-material. And it's
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: so out of balance now that women want to be
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: more like men because men have the power. They can
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: manipulate the material world easier because they're designed to do that.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that's a better thing to be. It
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: just You know, in our material world, it is. If
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: you have a man that can rule, that can, you know,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: whether it's a country or a company, whatever, they're still
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: ruling it. They can create product that people buy or whatever,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: services that people buy that are all materially oriented. And sure,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: that's power. Money comes with that.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: So why not?
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: If you think that's the end all, you think that's
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: the cat's meow to have material power, and you as
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: a woman don't have that or have less of that
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: than your counterpart, then that's going to be your goal
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: is to become more masculine. I mean, that's a no brainer.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: That's obviously what the movement is toward.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: At least it was.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Maybe some of this stuff may be changing a little bit.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, again, as Rachel Wilson has argued pretty convincingly
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: in her work, women's liberation was ultimately driven by men.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: And it was men who quote unquote liberated women, which
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: again feeds into the point that I was making earlier
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: on that the power differential is so massive that women
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: can never rule the world. And as a result, peace
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: has to come from other men In other words, it's
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: the good men holding the bad men accountable.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: If that makes sense. Yeah, it sure does. Again, I
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: sound like a broken record. But I think what gives
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: humans in general decency is a belief in You know,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: I hate to say belief in God because I don't,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, God can be defined in so many different ways,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: but it's an understanding.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: You can say it, Todd.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: I don't mind.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Well, let's just use, let's just use that word to
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: cover all versions of the truth, whatever that is. Okay,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: we can certainly define it in many, many different ways
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: as humans have been doing for quite a while. But it's,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: you know, I wish I had a really short catchphrase
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: for that, for what that is, a belief in something
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: that is not necessarily conscious, but is an intelligence. I mean,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: for lack of better word. And when we know that
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: and believe that, I think that the masculine system is
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: going to be oriented toward peace. You know, again, lack
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: of a better word, whatever that is. All right. But
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: oriented toward a peaceful. I mean, just because we have
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: testosterone doesn't mean we want to go out and kill
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: the guy next door just for the hell of it.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: You know, we will if we don't believe in the truth.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, as cliche as that is.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: But hold on, hold on, hold on. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: The desire to go and kill somebody next door is,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: that's not part of testosterone. If that were the case,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: there would be no people left. Our desire as men
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: is to protect.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: It's the sociopath. Psychopathic slash psychopathic minority that go and
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: do the bad stuff. Absolutely.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: And where does that come from, this psychopathology? Does it
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: come from brain damage? That's a good question.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I know. I think Jordan Peterson made a good point.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: For all his warts, he did say something with which
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: I agree, and that is that the rise of social media...
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: has also accelerated the rise of sociopathic behavior.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: What do you think?
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I don't know enough to be able
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: to pick that apart and tell you why. You know
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: exactly what it is that causes that. I think anything
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: that we're seeing in today's culture, social media, cell phones,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: whatever it might be, is an isolating thing. system, that
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: it essentially pulls us, pushes us into isolation as individuals.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Although it sounds like it shouldn't do that with texting
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: and being able to be in touch with people and whatever.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: But I think from a human perspective, a soul perspective,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: it isolates us. And I think anytime humans are isolated,
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: they become psychopathological. They become, yeah. So, you know, I mean,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: that's a real broad stroke. I mean, I don't know
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: the details of it. I know Jonathan Haidt wrote a
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: book called The Anxious Generation that people are interested in
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: the effect of social media on particularly young people should
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: read that. It's a very scientific, you know, approach. It's
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: not spiritual or metaphysical in any way. But I think
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: he's got some really, really good things to say in
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: that book.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I mean.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Our whole culture is moving toward isolation. Is moving toward,
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: you know, losing skills of connection, and that's that's primarily
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: a negative feminine approach. I mean, it is it is
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: a more masculine approach to become more isolated. because women are,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: or I shouldn't say women, I should be saying feminine,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: because women is a gender. It's like talking about sex
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: parts and chromosomes and stuff like that, which is important
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: because obviously it's more likely that a woman will constellate
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: feminine archetypes. But they're really archetypal. And again, you know,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: you have access to any of the archetypes regardless of
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: what your gender is. You must now be careful because
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: you're skating on thin ice. Because you're going to get
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: accused of potentially blurring the lines now between men and women,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: which you absolutely should not be doing. We do have
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: gender roles, surely you agree with that. OK, let me
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: make this statement and then I don't have to touch
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: on it again because I keep qualifying it going back
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: and forth. OK, a biological man. Talk about bell curves.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: A biological man that is born with the proper, you know,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: whatever the chromosome crap is and has genitals and whatever. OK,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: so he's clearly born a male. He is going to
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: constellate the masculine archetypes 90 percent of the time. Now,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of them that are kind of genderless archetypes,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: you know, like the trickster and stuff like that. So anyway,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: from an archetypal perspective, the outliers to that are the
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: men that are hermaphrodites or born with confused genitals or
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: whatever it might be, and the same with women. Okay,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: we don't need to talk about the outliers. Let's just
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: stick with the center of the bell curve. And it's
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: a pretty wide, broad center. It's not like just, you know,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: there's two people that are like this. So, yes, that
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: distinction is clear. There is a radical difference. You can
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: say the value is the same, which I personally believe
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: it is. I think the value of male-female is the same,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: but they are radically different. And there are some places
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: they overlap. Like I said, there's some archetypes that are
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: kind of genderless. And gender is not the right word.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: They're neither masculine nor feminine. They are generally constellated equally
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: by both sexes.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Laughing because I'm picturing what you're saying in terms of
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: people who are in the media like Macron and his wife.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right. Well, you know, we're in a very weird,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: do I need to say that? We're in a very
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: weird place with all this. And my argument has always been,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: I haven't made it, I haven't made a big deal
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: out of it. I haven't written a book about it
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: or anything. But my argument is with the trans thing
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: and whatever is an archetypal confusion. It doesn't have anything
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: to do with physicality. I mean, it does. I shouldn't
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: say it doesn't have anything to do with it. I
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: think the part that does have to do with physicality
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: are strange things like hormones and chicken meat and stuff
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: like that. I mean, I think there's all kinds of
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: weird physiological things going on in the world with us
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: being poisoned by what we eat and what we drink
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: and whatever that's causing these shifts internally that there's a
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: confusion as to what you actually are. And then from there,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: I think it's a problem of what archetypes you're going
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: to constellate. And back in the old days, if somebody
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: was more, for whatever reason, born this way, you know,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: more leaning toward the outlier on the bell curve of
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: born as a man but leaning more toward the feminine stuff,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: then he just constellated those feminine archetypes. and maybe dressed
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: up and was flamboyant or whatever, but was still a male.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: That was rare, you know, on both sides of it.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: You had super warrior women that, in history, that constellated
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: male archetypes for whatever reason.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, who knows?
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: But in a general way, in the center, you know,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: where we are now, I think it's very clear that
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: if you're born healthy, and you are born a particular sex,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: then more than likely you will be more comfortable constellating
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: the particular archetypes at that sex.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: It is interesting what you're saying though. You're talking about
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: the powerful woman throughout history, but all of those powerful
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: women tended towards the male side of the spectrum.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: If they're physically powerful, yeah, absolutely. If they're physically powerful,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: that's masculine. You know, they manipulate matter. They go out
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: with a spear and they jab it into people. I mean,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: that is a masculine function archetypally. That's masculine, manipulating the
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: material world, whether that be blowing up your next door
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: neighbor or... Or whatever, it's a manipulation in the material world.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: So that fits in the masculine bucket. And even women
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: know that Margaret Thatcher, she completely surrounded herself with men. Well,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: that's part of your power. strategy would be to do that.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't, if you were a, if you were a
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: consolating masculine archetypes and you were a leader in a country,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: it is very unlikely that you will find enough other
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: women around you that are at that same, you're an
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: outlier at that same level of masculine manipulation. So you'd
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: surround yourself with men. I mean, you're, you're trying to
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: be a man in a man's world as they say.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: The material world is the man's world. And, you know,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: it's too bad that we're so focused on the material
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: as being the end-all for everything that women get moved
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: out of the way.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, but you and I are having this conversation not
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: because it's a pointless conversation. It's extremely relevant because transhumanism
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: is all about removing the differences between men and women.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: It's all about egalitarianism. We're all equal. No, we're not
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: all equal. We are different and we should celebrate those differences,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: not be ashamed of them. Of course. Civilization doesn't occur
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: without men and women, all right? So, you know, men
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: are from Mars, women are from Venus, and, you know,
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: we need the two together. But they do, well, traditionally,
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: they have occupied different spaces, right? Now what's going on
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: with the agenda, to quote you, is to put them
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: all into the same space. That's right. And that's also
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: what Women's Liberation did. It put men and women against
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: each other.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: It put husbands and wives against each other.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Now it's funny we're talking about this because just this
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: week I'm releasing my book called The Essentials of Successful Coupling.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: which is about archetypal relationship with man and woman in
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: a marriage or a partnership or whatever. This is where
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: the archetypal path is almost essential without, that's why it's
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: called the essentials, is essential without any of this cultural
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: spin on it. You know, women are not powerful. They
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: need to be more powerful in a patriarchal man's world
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: and all of this. In a relationship, you almost have
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: to follow the archetypal systems, at least to a degree,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: at least in the romantic part of the relationship. And
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: if you don't, you're going to run into trouble, in
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: my opinion. And I see this, you know, I've been
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: doing this for 20 years, so. I see a lot
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: of couples, and I could say, if I could wave
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: a magic wand over any of my couples that were
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: coming in with a lot of problems, and the magic
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: wand would force them to behave like a man and
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: a woman, even in gay relationships, you have the same dynamic,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: the same polarity, the same dichotomy. between the two. It's
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: a little more blurred obviously, but it's still there in
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: my view. I don't see a lot of gay couples,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: so I can't speak for that. But from what I
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: understand and the research I've done and whatnot, if that
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: magic wand for them to behave with one another as
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: a man and a woman following those archetypal systems for
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: both male and female, they would more than likely, I'm
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: sure there's a percentage that wouldn't work, but they would
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: more than likely be able to have a loving, caring,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: productive relationship, a healthy one. And that's my thesis with that.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: And it goes in just with what you're saying, but
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: it's more focused on a romantic relationship, okay? Out in
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: the world, it's a different matter. Because the world defines
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: and dictates behavior more than we do individually. You know,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: it's harder for us to be able to go, say,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: into a workplace and be a boss and be a
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: woman and be able to do that effectively without constellating
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: masculine archetypes because the culture doesn't accept that.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: No. Well, actually, if you go to the work of
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Rachel Wilson again and Carrie Grace and many other sort
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: of dissident or counter-feminist, whatever you want to call them,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: or whatever their feminist critiques. They'll argue that women shouldn't
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: be in those positions. And that's why the whole thing
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: becomes artificial.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Well, I would agree with that.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: But what are you going to do? You're such a sexist, Todd.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: You're a sexist. I know.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: I know. But it's like that again, and I reduce
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: everything down to that, being in business okay, for the
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: most part. And there are exceptions. I think there's some
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: businesses women could do really well in. But in business,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: in our culture, is mostly manipulating matter. It's very physically oriented.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: You know, it's manufacturing, it's whatever, whatever it might be. Sure,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: you can have service businesses, but even that is still
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: dealing with matter. And men are are better at that. Sorry,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: shoot me in the head.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Now, it doesn't mean... Admit all bits of that. That
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: is just the reality.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Well, the reality proves that. I mean, the actual, you know,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: going through it, there's exceptions, just like you're saying. It's
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: not necessarily. I mean, there are exceptions, definitely. But the
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: women that have the exception as being great leaders and
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: CEOs and whatever companies are almost purely masculine. They don't
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: conduct their business from a feminine point of view. And
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: if there's anybody out there that disagrees with that, I'd
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: love to hear it. I'd love to hear of a CEO,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: a successful woman in a material business, that does not
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: conduct it from a masculine point of view.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: I'd love to hear that. Yeah, but you're gonna struggle
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: to find that because that environment is masculine. That's what
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: I just said, yeah. Absolutely, I'm agreeing with that. And again,
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: I know there's exceptions and I'd like to be informed
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: of exceptions because they're interesting. But again, and there are
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: things that men don't do well now in our material world.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: That's hard to find as well because we're aren't. Huh? No, no, no.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Sorry.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Just finish your thought. Did you say now?
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Hmm.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Do you mean in today's current, but back in the day? Yes. No?
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: Tell me that because that's, yeah. Why were there more
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: feminine-oriented activities.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: In the past?
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: What I'm saying is the other way around. It's more today.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: It's more now. And I think it's because of things
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: like egalitarianism and women's liberation and all of these attacks
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: on the family and what it means to be a
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: man and a woman.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think what women get faced with
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: in the material culture is to say, well, what is
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: there for me to do that actually has value?
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: Wait, wait, wait.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, but wouldn't they say that?
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a man, I look like an idiot.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Andrew Wilson was on my show. Now, a lot of
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: people don't like him because he gets up everybody's nostrils, right?
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: And if you don't know who he is, go check
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: him out. He's been on Rogan a couple of times.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: And He is the wife of Rachel Wills. I beg
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: your pardon, he's the husband of Rachel Wilson. And he
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: has argued extensively along these lines of the importance of patriarchy,
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: saying that it's critical to the existence of civilization. So
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: the patriarchal structure is fundamental to our existence. and the
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: destruction and the destruction of it will lead to the
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: end of civilization, which is pretty much a variation of
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: what I said earlier when I said women can't rule
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: the world because that's not a patriarchal structure. And he
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: also has argued that men throughout history have also, they
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: are the ones who guide other men in other words
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: if a bad if a guy does something bad it's
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: the men it's the other men that'll go and sort
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: him out look at the police or or military it's
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: men who are holding other men to account right right
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: when there's a fire it's majority men who are the
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: firemen who go into danger to rescue yeah Right? I mean, yeah.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: And those are, of course, physical roles, but they're, as
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: you say, masculine roles too. And those are fundamental to
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: basically to the smooth running of things. Yeah.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Manor protectors and service providers.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: But let me ask you a question. Let me ask
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: you a question. I was having a conversation with my
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: cousin a little while back, and And I don't know
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: the answer, so this is what I'm asking you. Like
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: I do. Is creativity largely in the feminine domain? Because
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: if you think of the primal differences between men and women,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: women are the homemakers, as it were, right? They raise
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: the family and protect the family to some degree within
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: that domain, and men... do the larger degree of protection
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: and of course the hunting and gathering, et cetera, in
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: the most primal sense. But we can obviously extrapolate that
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: into modern terminology. But if you are doing protection and
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: hunting in its most primal sense, what creating are you doing?
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: So therefore, where does being creative come in? Into which
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: domain largely?
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: Do we have two hours here for a week?
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: This is one of my biggest topics. No, I can
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: answer that. I'm asking that because I don't know the
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: answer because I myself am very creative. Yeah, well, that's probably.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, men, okay, biological men, also have the feminine
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: as part of their operating system. And this is a
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: key thing to understand, that that feminine... within them has
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: to be properly integrated. If it's not, it's projected outside
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: of them. And this is where you get affairs. This
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: is where, well, not all of them, of course, but
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: this is where you get men that become obsessed with
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: women that hold them up on a pedestal and blah, blah, blah. Okay,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: this is what we call anima projection. The anima is
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: the feminine within the man. The animus is the masculine
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: within the woman. So it's important that it be properly
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: integrated So, I mean, just that, you know, I'm going
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: off on a tangent, but to answer your question, it
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: depends on what you're defining.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: As art.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Or creative, because I don't know if you used art.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Well, yes, the caveat. Yes, the caveat in the conversation
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: that we were having. So my cousin suggested that creativity
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: is also aligned with time. And the modern era has
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: allowed us to have more time. We don't have to
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: go hunting anymore every single day. We can just have
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: something delivered to the house. So as a result, we
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: now have more time. And the fact that there's more
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: time can also allow for creativity to develop.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, that's an interesting idea. I wouldn't disagree
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: with it. I think the more time is allowing us
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: to move more into the feminine because it's so focused
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: and has been for so many tens of thousands of
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: years on material acquisition and manipulation in order to survive.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: You know, men spent a ton amount of time plowing
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: fields and you know, damming rivers and God knows what else,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: you know, building huts, building whatever, all that material stuff
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: in order to just live. You know, there was so
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: much focus on that. Now, of course, the women were
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: in charge of creating more men and more workers and
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: more women to have babies and whatever. So they were
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: protected and they were taken care of because the culture
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: would obviously die without that contribution to it. But I
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: think you're right that in time, because we have more time,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: we don't have to spend our entire day doing things
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: to make sure there's food on the table, literally. We
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: do have more time to integrate the feminine as men.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: and to become more creative. Now, my definition of creative
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: is anything. I mean, if I go and pour myself
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: a glass of water, there's a certain creative act in
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: that because I'm manipulating matter and creating something new, doing something,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: creating something different. I build a house, obviously, that's creative.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: If I'm an accountant and move numbers around, I'm being creative. Now,
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: if you separate creative to of that kind of creative
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: to the creative of making art, okay, writing music or
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: carving a sculpture or whatever, you're dealing again with the
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: manipulation of matter. Now, the actual art, the actual from
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: the mind images and Ideas and whatever going into material form,
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: the formulation of the ideas and the formulation of the
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: art itself, like the vision of a painting or whatever,
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: is feminine. It is not a manipulation. But when you
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: concretize it and put it down into form, material form,
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: that's masculine. So you can see that the great artists
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: of time, a lot of them, if not, you know,
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to say all of them, OK, but
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: a lot of them or the majority of them were
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: men because the actual concretation or that's not the right word,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: but the putting it into form was masculine. And the
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: true feminine, the creation in the mind, they don't care. again,
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: bell curve wise, the center of it, they don't care
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: to concretize what's in their mind. And again, this is
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: an archetypal thing. And the reason they don't is that men,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: as a general thing to say, archetypally, are generally more
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: confused than women. Women are born knowing internally, unconsciously, deep
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: inside their heart. They're born with purpose. They know what
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: their purpose is. Now, this goes back to what you
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: said earlier about men taking care of men. Men have
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: to be taught to be good men. This is all
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: my opinion, by the way. And it's based on other
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: people's opinion, too. It isn't like I just came up
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: with this. OK, but obviously people can disagree with what
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: I'm saying. And a lot of people do. But essentially,
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: men have to be taught to be men by other men.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: That's why men traditionally in ancient cultures or whatever have
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: been kidnapped from their mothers when they reach puberty and
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: the men take over and go out hunting and do
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: all their man things. They have to be taught to
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: be men. If they're not taught, they generally will flounder.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: They will go into confusion. They will not know what
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: their purpose is. They won't have any meaning until they
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: find something that gives that to them. And one of
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: the things they find if they're apt to do that,
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: is creating art. So if they become a great artist,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: they become obsessed with concretizing what's going on in their
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: internal world. Women typically, again, big statement, I know I
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: get in trouble for, but they don't have a drive
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: to do that because they don't need to. They don't
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: need to create something like a statue or whatever. Some
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: of them do, obviously, and some are really good at it. OK,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: but it's not across the board. It isn't that there
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: is more likelihood that men become passionate about things and
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: about making things where. I think that's one of your
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: differences that you're talking about between men and women. I
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: don't think women are as inclined to become mind-numb obsessed
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: with creation, whether it be a building or whether it be...
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: you know, building a model in your basement. I mean,
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: how many women do you know have like model train
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: setups in their basement? I mean, just on and on
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: and on. You can make those correlations because they're satisfied
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: without it. It isn't a deficiency by any means. They're
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: satisfied and they feel whole and complete without having to
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: do that crap. They're just out of the box. They're
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: better equipped.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: Beginning of the conversation, you also said that women create
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: life and the word create forms the word creativity. So
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: there's the feminine aspect of that word.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, like semantics, definitions of words and whatever, what
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: is create? What does that mean? yes, the ultimate manipulation
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: of matter is the creation in the body of another
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: human being. So that's where you start running into, you know,
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: the complexities of nuance with describing these things. I don't
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: know if it's so much the same because it's an
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: unconscious creation. There's a big difference between conscious creation and
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: unconscious creation. You know, no artist goes to bed and
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: wakes up in the morning with a painting sitting next
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: to his bed. You know, they have to create it consciously. Now,
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: a lot that goes on is unconscious, obviously. That's what
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: makes a great artist from a mediocre one. You know,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: there's incredible ones that takes place unconsciously. The creation of
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: a human body is an unconscious act. It just creates,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: but there's an essence to it. There's like a role
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: in it that men don't have. Whatever that role is, because,
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, with no question, I'd say that
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: if a woman goes through her life and never has children,
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: that she's no less a woman. You know, she's no
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: less of somebody that has this unique oneness about her
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: that essentially surpasses almost everything else.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, at the primal level, the role
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: of a woman is obviously to bring life into the
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: world and then to nurture that life while the primal
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: role of a man, I mean, I'm really, really breaking
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: it apart into its simplest terms. I mean, This isn't
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: how the real world is anymore. But the root is
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: still the same. As an animal, yeah. As an animal, absolutely.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: And then the role of the male is to provide, what,
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: protect and to, what else? To, well, provide, protect and to... Well, yeah,
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: provide provision, yeah. To procreate, I suppose. Yeah. And you
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: need a woman for that. From an animal perspective, absolutely.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Of course, biologically and all that, just like a dog is, okay,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: that's what its purpose is. But humans are not strictly.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: We're a lot more sophisticated now. We're a little bit
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: more sophisticated.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: And I think we're given the gift that we're given,
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: and this goes all the way back to the garden,
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: the gift we're given is awareness. It's like consciousness, like
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: we're aware of what, or we can be aware. I mean,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of people aren't, obviously. Most people are not aware,
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: but we have the capacity to be aware of our creator.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Speaking of creation.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think we're going to get pushback from
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: a lot of the religious folks because, oh, well, God's
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: a male and he's the ultimate creator.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not. That's human construct. I mean, God's not anything.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: It's not a male or a female or whatever. God,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: to me at least, God isn't an entity. I know
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of people that still believe that. Maybe
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: there are people that still believe he's a long bearded
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: man sitting on a throne in a cloud. I mean,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: they used to believe that. It's all restrictive. I mean,
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: any human construct of something that's ineffable, essentially, is going
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: to fall short. And that's the reason why organized religions
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: have the problems they have, is that they were essentially
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: designed with their definitions quite a while ago before we
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: knew a lot. So people like to say, well, there
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: can't be a guy sitting on a throne on a cloud.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: We know that's not possible. And it's like, well, but
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: that was a literal translation of something that no one
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: can translate.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, think about this. This is also something that
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: Andrew Wilson mentioned on my podcast, that there was a
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: time when the majority of women didn't work. The sort
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: of suffragette movement changed all of that and threw women
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: into the workplace sort of en masse. I think it's
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: a pretty good proposition. You can do whatever you want
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: every single day of your life. You can have cake
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: and tea parties and everything. You don't have to work.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: Let the men do the work. And you don't think
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: they work? You don't have to sit in traffic. You
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: don't have to sit in traffic and do all that
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: sort of stuff. But the point is that that has
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: now been thrown out, and we now are sitting where
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: we're sitting today, where the lines are being blurred. And
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: transhumanism is all about blurring those lines up until the
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: point where you and I can no longer have this conversation.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: Well, you're going into a different part of the topic
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: of the agenda. And all of these things we're describing,
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: most people, I think most people, would say that they're
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: just evolutionary. They're just the way the time changes, the
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: times change, progressiveness, whatever, feminism comes along and the family
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: starts to disintegrate and da-da-da-da-da. And I think it's all intentional, right?
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: As I think you might believe to all of us
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: weirdos over here, you know, believe that this is actually intentional,
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: that feminism was intentional. Pulling the woman out of the
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: household to work was intentional. Because, yeah, OK, I believe that, too,
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: because it's the only answer. And none of this stuff
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: would have organically come about.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: Women didn't want it. But this is the whole thing.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: Women didn't want it. The suffragettes were the sort of
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: the anti-suffragettes were mostly women. Think about this. They weren't working.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: And suddenly, there's this whole movement going, well, we think
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: women should work. You must now get up early and
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: go work in a factory. I mean, do you think
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: they really wanted that? No.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't think it's for the reasons that
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: you're implying here. I don't think it's because women were
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: generally lazy and they didn't want to go to work.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: That's not what I'm saying. No, I'm not saying that
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: at all. No, I'm not saying they were lazy. 100%
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: not lazy.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: No, but they thought they were. I don't want to
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: get up in the morning and go to work. I mean,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: they did get up in the morning and go to work.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: They worked a lot harder than men did. At a
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: certain time, they had 12 kids running around, you know, blah, blah, blah.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but they were thrown into the same working environment
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: as men, and that was a major problem.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: That's where the problem was, right? Because it's non-relational.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and now you have men. Their work suddenly, huh? No,
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: you originally had men competing against men. Now you've got
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: men competing against women also. Well, you've got that and
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: there's a problem with that. And you've got women competing
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: against men and you've got a problem with that. You've
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: got a problem with the work itself that men can
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: have a passion about going out and working. Women typically
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: have to be relational in order for their work to
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: be satisfying and fulfilling to them. It's relational work. And
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: that's not just raising babies. Okay, back in the day,
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: It was mostly because you couldn't have a family. A
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: man and a woman could not come together in a
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: romantic way and not have children unless you were physically defective.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: And that was also... Sorry.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, that was just the way that it was.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: There wasn't any question about that. They didn't... And, you know,
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: religion kept that in line to some degree. I mean,
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know when condoms were invented or I'm sure
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: there was birth control in some way at some time. But,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: of course, as a consistent, effective method didn't come about
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: until 1964.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: Well, there was birth control. There was birth control. It was,
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: you know, teaching people about when the Tweedledum and the
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: Tweedledee meet.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't know how effective is that and
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: how many people practice that. You know, blah, blah, blah.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, people had kids, okay? They just had them.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: It wasn't part of that because they wanted them, okay?
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: No question.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: Part of that because it was a little bit more
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: difficult to avoid it. And that is partially due to
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: contraceptive devices or whatever. And part of that's due to religion. Okay,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: whatever it is, go back 100 years ago. More people
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: had kids. If you were married and loved each other,
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: which is natural, the natural process, you had children. So
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: you had to take care of them. And the masculine
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: was the one that went out of the house and
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: back in the day went hunting, you know, to bring
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: back the wild boar. Well, that's being the provider. That's
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: being the provider. That's part of his archetypal duty. And
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: these are not just tasks like roles assigned to people.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: These are ingrained in our psychic systems. And this is
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: the argument that I make certainly in my book that
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: I go into. It's like you can't ignore them. You
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: can be conscious to work against them if you're conscious
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: of them and you compensate. and you sacrifice and you
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: compromise or whatever, if you're conscious of them. But we're
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: not conscious of them. In fact, we identify them as role-playing, traditional, conservative, liberal, whatever.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: We identify them as negative attributes, that it's a negative
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: attribute for a woman to choose to stay home and
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: take care of her children.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: And it's not. Exactly.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: And yet, again, this is where the agenda comes into it,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: you know?
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: That's what Rachel, sorry, but that's what Rachel Wilson argues
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: in her book. She says, at what point did that flip?
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: happen when suddenly it's all about career first and then family,
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: where it used to be family first and then career.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: That's a slow evolution over the last, what, 60, 70 years?
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, from the introduction of the Federal Reserve.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: Well, could be. I mean, you know, which came first,
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: horse or the cart? You know, you've got I think
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: birth control pills is one of the major agenda-driven, you know,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: disguising it as women's liberation, sexual liberation and whatever. I mean,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm not going to harp on that and
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: focus on it because it certainly has done some good
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: in the world. I mean, I'm not saying that it's... But,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: you know, again, these are top-down versus bottom-up. It's like
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: if we had a bottom-up system where people were actually
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: taught to be decent, you wouldn't have pregnancies everywhere all
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: the time, you know, that need to be aborted or
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: that need to be, you know, you just, it wouldn't
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: happen because people were decent. And that's a respect, a
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: decency and respect that you don't fuck everything that you
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: can get your hands on.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: Completely. You know, just on and on and on. I mean,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: And so what happens as a result is that you
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: start treating the symptoms and you don't treat the cause. Yeah,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: that's exactly what it is. That's top down.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: It's everywhere.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's in psychology with CBT therapy. I mean,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: you know, it's like it's the go-to is to treat symptoms.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: And we do that psychologically. We do that medically. We
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: do that socially. Yeah. We do that everywhere, or we
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: attempt to, I'll have to say. I mean, we're not
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: very successful at it. Socially, we're not. But again, if
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: you've got this underlying push from the agenda to not
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: treat the symptoms properly, then you're not even going to
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: get that. You're not even going to get a top-down response.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: effect where you can say, well, let's make it against
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: the law to do this or that. Let's make capital
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: punishment for this or that. That's a top-down solution. And
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: that won't even work because you've got this underlying push
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: to create crime and to create capital offenses, you know,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: in order to, I mean, it's crazy. It's crazy.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: All right. So this has been a really great discussion
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: um i can talk about this for hours i love
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: it it's so fast.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah same here it's kind of it's kind of my
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: my alley.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: Okay well then i'm going to bring you back and
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: we'll talk some more about it soon but all right
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: i'm looking at the time so for now todd how
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: can i follow your work and get your.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: New book can i plug my book i got a
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: copy of it right here of course there it is
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: i don't know it's my backwards Yeah, and the e-book
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: is available on Amazon now. What's it called? The print book.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: It's The Essentials of Successful Coupling, Archetypal Tools for Relational Depth.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: And it's all about the stuff we've been talking about.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: Although what we've been talking about, you know, I use
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: the F word and whatever. I don't do that so much.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: And you can go to my shrew views to shrewviews.com.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: is my sub stack, www.shrewviews.com. So check that out.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: So one of the reasons why I love talking to
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: you is because it never stays on script. So whatever
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: it is that I wanted to talk to you about today,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: we didn't even get to. My notes, I haven't.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: But I enjoyed it so much. We'll get to it
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: next time. No, I love it. I love it, buddy.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: Appreciate it. And thank you for joining me in the trenches.