Latest / Rusty's Garage / Hayden Paddon - Part 2

Transcript

Hayden Paddon - Part 2 · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:19
  G'day, it's Rusty here, all set for part two of my podcast with champion rally driver Hayden Padden.
• 0:24
  Off the back of yet another NZ title and a history-making win for he and co-driver John Kennard in the European Championship, I tracked him down at an end-of-year stock car charity Invitational Speedway event in Rotorua that he was making an appearance at.
• 0:41
  If you haven't already checked out part one, it is worth heading back to the garage library and having a listen.
• 0:47
  From his early career in carts and taking the wheel of his dad's rally car to an obsession with minis.
• 0:54
  An unhealthy obsession, he reckons.
• 0:56
  A heartbreaking fire and how the damage nearly derailed future plans for him.
• 1:01
  Scholarships that helped significantly too on the path to the WRC.
• 1:06
  It has been a massive year for Hayden.
• 1:08
  Hopefully he gets over to Oz at some stage in the future, like one of his heroes, Possum Bourne, did back in the early 2000s.
• 1:16
  That would be cool, seeing him tackle the ARC.
• 1:20
  Now, in this second part, I'm conscious that some of you will want to know more about the difficult events in Monte Carlo in 2017, where...
• 1:29
  A tragic accident after hitting black ice resulted in the death of a spectator.
• 1:34
  Just a freakish moment and set of circumstances, really.
• 1:39
  Some literature on this suggests that it was a tricky spot for the fan to be standing and that escape options may have been difficult and so on.
• 1:48
  The sport...
• 1:49
  constantly works on improving safety and it's certainly done so in the wake of this.
• 1:55
  I didn't want to open the wound majorly for Hayden so I kind of focused on how he came back from that rather than trying to find out intricate detail on the incident itself.
• 2:06
  Please don't mistake that as either of us being cold or heartless.
• 2:13
  A bit of time has passed since then, but as you'll hear from Hayden's answer, it is most certainly not cold or heartless, quite the opposite, in fact.
• 2:21
  We continue this excellent conversation by revisiting his career path as he edges even closer to breaking into the WRC as a factory driver.
• 2:33
  That Skoda, I'm not sure if I have my position in the chart of your career right here, that was an S2000 car?
• 2:40
  What was that thing like to drive?
• 2:43
  Oh, cool car.
• 2:43
  They weren't overly powerful because they were too late and normally aspirated, so no turbos.
• 2:47
  But essentially the chassis and everything was very similar to a WRC car.
• 2:50
  So the suspension travel, they're a full-blown built race car.
• 2:54
  So they're a big step up from a production car.
• 2:56
  Probably didn't have the power of the production car, but they were still...
• 2:59
  I think a second per K quicker, maybe even more.
• 3:02
  So, yeah.
• 3:03
  And at that time, that was actually when OJ was doing some rallies on a Super 2000 car because this is when he signed a Volkswagen, but they didn't have the WRC car, so they had one season in the Skoda.
• 3:13
  And like in Finland, I think we're here at OJ and we're able to beat him on some stages in Portugal.
• 3:17
  So...
• 3:18
  He was a really good benchmark for us.
• 3:20
  And then, again, I think people were able to start taking us more seriously through that 12, 13 era where we had some good competition.
• 3:27
  We may not have been beating them all the time, but we were able to show that we're competitive against some of the best drivers.
• 3:31
  Did he become a rival?
• 3:32
  How do you sort of look upon him now?
• 3:35
  I mean, because he's...
• 3:36
  Well, obviously when we were in the WIC, he was the man to beat.
• 3:39
  He was the ultimate machine on didn't matter what rally, what surface.
• 3:43
  So, yeah, he'd become, I guess, a nemesis.
• 3:46
  After our Argentina altercation, I probably lost a little bit of respect because it wasn't the sort of altercation I would have liked.
• 3:54
  But nowadays, obviously, I think once, he's a different man now.
• 3:59
  He was a very competitive person, very cutthroat.
• 4:02
  And all winners are anyone performing at the top of their level.
• 4:07
  Once he had, I think, the family and moved to a different team, he's a very different person now.
• 4:12
  And obviously someone as successful as him, and like him and Loeb, you can't but respect in our sport.
• 4:18
  You've had an amazing chapter with Hyundai, both internationally and domestically.
• 4:23
  You've been able to forge a partnership with them and keep it to this day.
• 4:28
  When did that first knock of the door, or was it you going to them or they came to you?
• 4:33
  What was kind of the first approach?
• 4:34
  How did that come about?
• 4:36
  It was through that 2013 stage where we were very much in the red.
• 4:39
  We were financially bearing ourselves big time with what we were trying to do.
• 4:43
  But then that was when Hyundai announced that they were going to be entering the WRC in 2014.
• 4:46
  And basically as soon as we heard that news, it was like a light bulb moment for me.
• 4:51
  Like we'd already approached Citroen and Ford, who were the only two teams at the time in WRC.
• 4:55
  There was no interest for a Kiwi there from a commercial aspect.
• 4:58
  But Hyundai all of a sudden was a brand that had a lot of relevance in this part of the world.
• 5:04
  I went after it like a dog with a bone really.
• 5:07
  I was just ringing the people at Hyundai New Zealand.
• 5:08
  I was sending my CV to Korea.
• 5:10
  I was sending my CV to Hyundai Motorsport in Germany.
• 5:12
  Eventually got some meetings with Hyundai New Zealand.
• 5:15
  They knew nothing about motorsport.
• 5:16
  They were just about yachts and sailing.
• 5:18
  And basically over the course of six months in 2013, just kept on talking to people, just kept hounding, wanting meetings.
• 5:25
  One, it was a little bit complicated, but somehow we were able to open up an opportunity to have a part-time program in 2014.
• 5:32
  There was a private investor who got involved from Europe, which was that whole situation was very strange, but obviously we weren't going to question it if it was going to give us an opportunity.
• 5:42
  But yeah, they didn't finally get the call to say, hey, look, we've got six rounds in the WIC for you in 2014 as a factory driver was, yeah.
• 5:50
  Yeah.
• 5:51
  monumental.
• 5:53
  Even now you're sort of looking back on it and reflecting, it was a pretty special moment that.
• 5:58
  From watching Colin and the guys that I looked up to as a kid doing WRC to now being in WRC in a factory team and the journey it took to get there, we did it very much...
• 6:09
  I guess non-traditional in a way and the fact that we didn't have a whole lot of money behind us we didn't have a whole lot of funding, we did a whole Kiwi DIY roll up your sleeves and just get your hands dirty type attitude so that was pretty surreal so that was a massive point in my career and then I guess the next part after that was a second phase if you like
• 6:29
  Just as we get ready to dive into that, how close did you go when you talked about it being in the red or a massive challenge?
• 6:36
  Did you get to a point where you went, far out, I might have to park this or I might have to change tact here?
• 6:40
  Or did you…
• 6:42
  You said you were a dog with a bone, ringing them and so on.
• 6:45
  Was there ever a moment where you thought this could be the end of it for now?
• 6:49
  We gave up for 10 minutes.
• 6:51
  Did you?
• 6:51
  In 2013.
• 6:52
  I remember coming home.
• 6:53
  Where were you when this happened?
• 6:55
  I was in Wanaka, my dad's new place where he just moved to Wanaka.
• 6:59
  Because I was living a bit more overseas, sort of traveling back and forth and come back to New Zealand between some of the rallies.
• 7:04
  We were financially buried.
• 7:05
  Yeah.
• 7:07
  And we looked at each other and said, look, we can't do this.
• 7:10
  It's a step too far.
• 7:11
  You're overextending.
• 7:12
  I think at that time we were $300,000 or $400,000 in the red, and we still had the fun, the next rally's coming up, and we said, look, this is just impossible.
• 7:20
  And then we just sat there on the couches in silence for 10 minutes and then pretty much looked at each other again, almost in sync, and said, nah.
• 7:29
  We've come too far.
• 7:31
  We can't do this and not carry on.
• 7:33
  So, yeah, we obviously had to find the way through.
• 7:35
  And actually, a saying that I love, which is more relevant now when you think about it, is if you think the price of winning is too high, wait until you get the bill from regret.
• 7:44
  And that's very much the case back then.
• 7:47
  The easy thing would have been to do is pull out.
• 7:49
  But the regret that you would have lived with for the rest of your life would have been something you could never replace.
• 7:54
  What a great line.
• 7:55
  An amazing line.
• 7:57
  So here you are.
• 7:58
  I mean, these are huge firsts for New Zealand, for this part of the world.
• 8:03
  I love the fact that you brought up almost idols there a moment ago too.
• 8:07
  So clearly Colin McRae was Possum Bourne, who was a legend in this part of the world.
• 8:12
  Was he someone else that you'd sort of –
• 8:13
  Yeah, I always had three idols, Colin.
• 8:15
  Colin was more because winning the world championship, the winning side, the fact that no matter if he was behind, he was always 110% maximum attack, hitting staff, putting on a show, the spectators and fans loved it.
• 8:26
  Possum, obviously he was very successful, but Possum was probably more of an idol for my side, for the person he was.
• 8:32
  The loyalty, obviously always trying to find a positive spin, yeah.
• 8:37
  It was just a great role model for myself as a kid.
• 8:39
  And that's where, for me, the whole loyalty thing come from with sponsors.
• 8:44
  A big thing for me is loyalty.
• 8:45
  And that's where I first sat down with Hyundai in 2013 and said, and one of the first things we talked about is, I want to create a relationship with Hyundai like Possum to Subaru.
• 8:53
  That's all I know Possum for is Subaru.
• 8:55
  And anyone you speak to, they know Possum for Subaru.
• 8:58
  And that loyalty is actually what will probably hurt us a lot in the WRC.
• 9:02
  Yeah.
• 9:03
  because of other missed opportunities because you stuck with them missed opportunities and also the way that those contract negotiations were done in 18 where we were put on the fence and basically left out the dry but I can go to sleep at night knowing I'm doing things what I think is the proper way loyalty, honesty yeah, doesn't always work in professional sport but as I say, at least I can sleep at night
• 9:22
  You've created an environment where you can be more in control of your destiny, if you will.
• 9:29
  In this WRC chapter, I mean, here you are, Hayden Padden from a small area of the South Island of New Zealand.
• 9:37
  You're now a factory WRC driver.
• 9:39
  I mean, wild dream.
• 9:42
  Weary living and that changes everything massively because all of a sudden you're in Europe, you're training PR commitments, the expectation of a factory WRC driver is probably very different to what you had been rolled up, rolling up your sleeves and doing until that point.
• 9:59
  Yeah, we were a family team in Little Old Town in South Canterbury.
• 10:02
  Me and a mate would work on the car every night, two or three o'clock in the morning, every weekend.
• 10:06
  We'd do the sponsorship, we'd do everything.
• 10:08
  It was just the family team, eight people.
• 10:11
  Go over there, 250 people on the team, ridiculous budgets, amazing infrastructures, and your job in there is only the drive.
• 10:19
  Not to engineer, not to do any mechanic work, not to sweep the floors.
• 10:22
  is you just be the best driver that you can, whether that be from obviously your training, your studying, your videos, and you do your testing, the PR, and driving.
• 10:29
  And that was probably the biggest thing for me to adapt to for probably a couple of years was the effect of almost stepping back in some regards.
• 10:36
  And I'm the sort of person that loves to keep myself busy.
• 10:39
  And we were living in Germany at the time, so we shifted to Frankfurt.
• 10:42
  We were living there for, I think, five years.
• 10:44
  And I really struggled with this lifestyle of you can only train and study videos and that so much.
• 10:49
  And obviously between rallies, you're at home for maybe a couple of weeks.
• 10:53
  It depends on the test schedule.
• 10:55
  Even if you're training two or three hours a day and watching two or three hours of video a day, you've still got 10 hours left.
• 10:59
  And I was so bored.
• 11:01
  I was bored out of my brain.
• 11:02
  And that's a hard thing that a lot of people don't realize is coming from this side of
• 11:07
  It's very hard because for a lot of the other drivers, it's predominantly a European championship in terms of the personnel and where the teams are all based.
• 11:13
  And a European mentality.
• 11:14
  European mentality.
• 11:15
  And, of course, whenever they've done a rally, they go home.
• 11:17
  They go home to France.
• 11:18
  They go home to Belgium.
• 11:19
  They go home to Finland.
• 11:20
  And they go back to their normal environments, like what I've got here in New Zealand, where you've got family, friends.
• 11:24
  You've got stuff.
• 11:24
  You've got things that you can do.
• 11:26
  We didn't have that.
• 11:26
  We went back to Germany.
• 11:27
  We were on our own, no family, no friends.
• 11:29
  And we're just sitting there waiting for the next rally and obviously training and doing the best job.
• 11:33
  But...
• 11:34
  That lifestyle didn't fit me.
• 11:36
  And yeah, I always said from since then that I'd rather live in New Zealand and travel back and forth and yeah, travel is demanding, but at least I can be in a happier mindset.
• 11:46
  And I think if you're in a happy place mentally, you're going to perform better.
• 11:50
  So that was a struggle, but obviously I had to adapt.
• 11:52
  That was a dream come true to be in a WRC team.
• 11:55
  We weren't going to complain.
• 11:56
  So I just had to adapt to that over the few years.
• 11:58
  And obviously you're so busy also with the rally programs.
• 12:01
  I think in 2016 we did like 150 flights throughout the year, a lot of PR, a lot of testing, a lot of rallies.
• 12:09
  So during the season it is quite busy.
• 12:12
  It's just in between times you got a little bored.
• 12:24
  The very first episode of Rusty's Garage was a rally driver, former SAS Australia finalist, Molly Taylor.
• 12:32
  In 2023, we did a well overdue catch up.
• 12:35
  Molly is back driving in the Xtreme series on the world stage, but at heart she's still just a race fan.
• 12:42
  Carlos Sainz is the same for me.
• 12:44
  And I mean, even this year, he's in the paddock.
• 12:47
  He's not driving, but he's sort of managing his team.
• 12:49
  So we actually sort of speak a lot more than we had previously.
• 12:53
  And he's loving that.
• 12:55
  And he's always in a great mood and super friendly.
• 12:58
  But I also just, I find it so hard to play cool because he's such an idol.
• 13:03
  Another legend.
• 13:03
  I have a Carlos Sainz edition GT4 at home, you know, with a little plate with his signet.
• 13:08
  Like, I'm not cool.
• 13:12
  We think Molly is a legend and more noise should be made about what she's achieving on the global stage.
• 13:18
  Here's someone else who's also made a quieter name for himself internationally through she hard work.
• 13:23
  Back to Hayden chatting with Rusty now.
• 13:28
  Okay, so what was it like to drive a WRC car for the first time?
• 13:33
  Take people there.
• 13:34
  Where were you?
• 13:35
  Where did you drive it for the first time?
• 13:36
  And what impact?
• 13:38
  He's searching the memory bank now.
• 13:39
  Yeah, yeah.
• 13:41
  Well, even if you can't remember the place.
• 13:43
  No, no, I think it was in France.
• 13:45
  I can't remember the name of the road, but it was a loop road, so it was a three-kilometre loop.
• 13:49
  Tarmac, dirt?
• 13:50
  Gravel.
• 13:50
  Gravel.
• 13:50
  Just kept going around in circles, and it was a development test.
• 13:53
  So it wasn't actually testing for a rally in particular.
• 13:55
  It was just a way to let me drive the car.
• 13:56
  What did you think?
• 13:58
  Oh, it was unreal.
• 14:00
  Like, not a whole lot different to the Super 2000 in terms of handling, just more power.
• 14:04
  Because at that stage, we were still on stick shift.
• 14:07
  The paddle shift didn't come back in the cars until a year later.
• 14:09
  So it was very similar to what we were driving, just more power.
• 14:13
  But just even just being in the environment in terms of doing a proper test where all of a sudden they could change 20 things in a day.
• 14:18
  Like, for me, a test, normally you might have time to change four things in a day because you're a small team and you don't have the resources.
• 14:24
  It was just, you know, the endless stuff that they could do and the resources that they had.
• 14:28
  podium start coming, event leads start coming, and you've detailed the win, the round win there before.
• 14:36
  What did that mean after all that sacrifice, putting that money on the line to be a Kiwi winning in the WRC was a massive, massive thing.
• 14:46
  Yeah, well, everything sort of come unexpectedly in terms of, like, we obviously had goals that we were trying to chase, but in terms of trying our first podium in Sardinia in 2015, that was also our first rally the year before in 2014, and didn't enjoy the rally at all.
• 15:00
  It was our first rally.
• 15:00
  It was like 60 degrees in the car, one of the hottest rallies I've ever done, 60 kilometre stages, just a very, very demanding rally.
• 15:07
  Multiple layer rally.
• 15:08
  suits, helmets, balaclavas, and that's a whole thing.
• 15:11
  So it was hard, and we weren't very fast, and it was our first rally.
• 15:14
  So we go back there a year later, so of course my expectations weren't that high.
• 15:17
  But then we went out and we won the first three stages.
• 15:19
  We'll lead in the rally for half the rally and we end up second.
• 15:22
  So that was a surprise.
• 15:23
  And then, of course, Argentina the year after, same sort of thing.
• 15:26
  The year before, we actually had a bit of an accident where we went into some spectators.
• 15:30
  Luckily, no one was majorly injured.
• 15:32
  Yeah.
• 15:33
  But of course, the mindset going back to Argentina after an accident like that was not so positive.
• 15:37
  It wasn't a rally I particularly enjoyed the year before.
• 15:39
  And of course, then 16 would come out and win the rally.
• 15:41
  So those sort of first sort of main results, if you like, sort of, I guess, unexpectedly happened.
• 15:48
  What was the reaction back home?
• 15:51
  Can you...
• 15:52
  Yeah, well I think that first podium, it was a massive surprise for everybody because we weren't expecting it to come that soon.
• 15:58
  Particularly at that time, the 2014-2015 Hyundai WRC car was a temporary car.
• 16:05
  It was built in a hurry.
• 16:05
  It wasn't up to the spec of the Volkswagen or the Citroen at the time.
• 16:09
  And even Terry Neville, the number one driver, even he wasn't able to win a lot of rallies.
• 16:14
  So to get a podium in that car in only, I think, an eighth rally or something was coming unexpectedly.
• 16:21
  And we had, I think, 10 Kiwis here with us and it was a pretty special rally really.
• 16:26
  And then of course Argentina, I just remember the whole country getting behind it.
• 16:30
  And the day that we won was actually Anzac Day in New Zealand.
• 16:32
  Coming home and seeing 100 people plus at the airport and the haka, it was something that will live with me forever.
• 16:39
  Excellent, mate.
• 16:41
  I want to talk about something now in your career that is not a wound I necessarily want to open.
• 16:45
  I actually want to understand how you compartmentalised it and moved on with it because I think what you did there was remarkable.
• 16:53
  People can obviously find about Monte Carlo and the tragic passing of a spectator, some black ice and so on.
• 17:03
  Motorsport, when you get a ticket, on the back of it, it's very clear it is dangerous.
• 17:08
  And by the sounds of it, on that particular day, there wasn't necessarily an escape route that this person had thought about when it happened.
• 17:16
  And tragically...
• 17:17
  This person passed away.
• 17:19
  You were able to, I'm assuming, deal with three very, very difficult months there, but come back.
• 17:26
  How did you process that?
• 17:28
  How did you do that?
• 17:29
  Because that's not easy done for most human beings, I would imagine.
• 17:33
  Not easily.
• 17:33
  I don't really know what the answer is there.
• 17:35
  That was definitely a struggle.
• 17:37
  That rally was obviously a nightmare.
• 17:40
  Didn't matter whether it was a fault or not.
• 17:41
  At the end of the day, someone lost their life.
• 17:42
  So that's not details that we go into.
• 17:46
  Yeah, it was really tough to deal with because in that environment,
• 17:50
  your job was to get back in the car in three weeks time and the next rally was Sweden.
• 17:54
  We went back home to Germany.
• 17:57
  And again, I think what made it harder is no family, no friends.
• 18:00
  I had a bit of personal stuff going on at the same time, uh, with, with, with someone, um,
• 18:06
  which didn't help, and then of course we didn't really have any support network.
• 18:10
  So it was a very dark spot for the next three weeks, I was pretty much just on my own, just locking myself away.
• 18:15
  And that's sort of how I tend to deal with things sometimes, maybe not the healthiest way, but that's probably the inner introvert side of me, is to try and deal with things.
• 18:23
  Got back in the car the next rally in Sweden and it just didn't click, everything felt abnormal, the seat position, everything felt different, but it was all the same.
• 18:30
  And then it became very clear to me, okay.
• 18:32
  this is obviously going to take a little bit to get over.
• 18:34
  I guess at that age I was naive to think, okay, my happy spot is the car.
• 18:38
  Surely if I put the helmet on, get back into my space, it can disappear type thing.
• 18:42
  And it didn't, so I had to be really patient with the process over the next few rallies knowing that it was going to take a little bit.
• 18:49
  Within sort of the fourth or fifth rally, we were starting the lead rallies again.
• 18:52
  Okay, there was a few instances and few mistakes I made that year.
• 18:56
  But the biggest reset I had to do was at the end of the year.
• 18:58
  I had to just come back home to New Zealand.
• 19:01
  And 2017 was a year from hell for so many reasons, not just what happened at the start of the season, but even later in the year, politics within the team, contracts getting cut, losing sponsors.
• 19:12
  Even little things like family pets passing away, stuff with the family.
• 19:16
  It was one of those years where it just carried on snowballing, like surely this can't get any worse.
• 19:21
  So it was a matter of coming home at the end of the year and just doing a full reset.
• 19:24
  And I actually got a place I always escaped to in New Zealand and no phone reception, no nothing.
• 19:28
  I just go away for three or four days.
• 19:30
  I take a little notebook.
• 19:30
  I write down some stuff.
• 19:32
  And just pretty much just try and bring yourself back into check, if you like.
• 19:35
  And then did a full reset.
• 19:38
  And in 2018, we obviously had contract got cut in half, which wasn't right.
• 19:43
  It wasn't supposed to be.
• 19:44
  It was very clear in our contract what we were supposed to get in 2018.
• 19:46
  But obviously that changed.
• 19:48
  And instead of fighting it, we decided, okay, let's just take this on the chin and come out and make the best job we possibly can with these seven rallies that we got and try and get the momentum going back in our direction for 2019.
• 19:59
  Is WRC unfinished business for you?
• 20:01
  Like it's certainly...
• 20:02
  It's under-finished business, but in some respects, I'm also realistic to know in its current format with the Rally 1 cars, we haven't got a show getting back there.
• 20:09
  There's simply not enough drivers.
• 20:10
  There's not enough teams.
• 20:11
  You know, you think the 24th season now coming up, there's only two full-time drivers in the whole championship.
• 20:17
  Everyone else is part-time or they're swapping in and out.
• 20:21
  the sport is not in a great place at the moment but there are some rumors of something happening for 25 26 maybe if something like that does happen i would love to give it one more crack and i'd love to give it a crack with our own team do it our way um i definitely feel like there's unfinished business there especially you know the guys know like the guys that are there now doing an amazing job like driving those cars is no mean feat but um the the commitment the the
• 20:46
  But they're all guys that we used to compete with still.
• 20:48
  It's still the same group of guys, and they're guys that we backed that we could beat a few years ago.
• 20:51
  So, yeah, for sure I'm not at that level now because I haven't been there, but I backed myself that I could get back to that level.
• 20:57
  So, yeah, I think I've got maybe two or three years of high-level driving left in me.
• 21:01
  I don't know.
• 21:02
  We'll see, like, Sebastian Loeb could still win the rallies when he was 48.
• 21:05
  He's amazing, isn't he?
• 21:06
  Exactly, but he's a bit of a superhuman as well.
• 21:08
  But, yeah, never say never.
• 21:10
  Let's talk some good tonic toward the end of the pod here.
• 21:12
  Firstly, somewhere along the lines, when did you embark on your own business and you have – how many staff down there now at Highland 7 and it grows to 20 when you go to a round and things?
• 21:25
  What are you at?
• 21:26
  We're eight full-time staff and then we've got 30 once we get to the rallies in New Zealand when we're running three or four customers plus us.
• 21:32
  So yeah, I'm loving that side.
• 21:34
  We've got such a good group of guys, all young guys.
• 21:37
  You're at Highlands there, that's where the base is.
• 21:38
  Yeah, based down at Highlands.
• 21:39
  So great place, best place in the country to be based.
• 21:42
  And yeah, I'm just super proud of our team.
• 21:45
  Obviously, I think my aspirations, I'm always pretty driven.
• 21:48
  I'm always pushing what we want to do quite hard.
• 21:50
  So it probably makes it a bit harder for our guys, but they embrace it.
• 21:53
  They all enjoy what we're doing and...
• 21:55
  I guess the whole motivation for that come from when we got more or less shafted at the end of WIC.
• 22:00
  You know, we thought we had a contract for 19.
• 22:02
  We thought the deal was done.
• 22:03
  And then two weeks before Christmas, we get that phone call to say that Sebastian Loeb's taking our seat.
• 22:07
  So that was what lit the fire inside the go.
• 22:09
  Okay.
• 22:10
  I want to come back and do it my way.
• 22:15
  I got really tired of politics.
• 22:17
  It was too much rubbish going on in the background.
• 22:19
  And you stopped enjoying your sport as well to an element, which I was living my dream.
• 22:23
  I should have been loving it.
• 22:24
  But there was just too much rubbish going on in the background.
• 22:26
  So yeah, I'll come back, set up ourselves.
• 22:28
  And the big thing we needed when we set up our own team on the other side of the world was we needed a point of difference.
• 22:32
  And that's where the whole electric rally car idea concept come from.
• 22:35
  Hadn't been done anywhere in the world.
• 22:37
  And that was what was going to give our small team in terms of,
• 22:40
  drawing our line in the sand saying, look, we're here, we mean business, we've got a point of difference.
• 22:44
  And our guys embraced that project.
• 22:46
  None of them had built a car before and we went after it.
• 22:49
  And for our first car we've ever built, it's pretty phenomenal.
• 22:52
  It's phenomenal.
• 22:52
  All right.
• 22:53
  I want to come to that in a second.
• 22:54
  Just quickly, you do give young people opportunity, which I love.
• 22:57
  And maybe that's come from what you've just described in our pod chat here with your own career.
• 23:03
  So, for example, young Jack who's been helpful with things I've needed over time, you two sit down and nut out a really good marketing plan together, don't you?
• 23:14
  You look at things like what in social media land will really connect with your audience and you're quite good with that, aren't you?
• 23:24
  You enjoy that side of it.
• 23:25
  Yeah, you're right.
• 23:26
  You've got to have a good team around you.
• 23:27
  And like the busier we get, like we, this year we're 28 corporate partners on board.
• 23:30
  So it's a lot of people for us to look after.
• 23:32
  And that's where, you know, I need Jack.
• 23:33
  Jack's become, I've known him since he was like, he's quite tall now, but I've known him since he was probably up to my waist.
• 23:39
  So, but Jack, he's grown phenomenally this year and the marketing aspect of our support is huge.
• 23:45
  Obviously what Mike and the guys do in the cars is that's obviously a major factor.
• 23:49
  He's one part of it.
• 23:50
  I've singled Jack out there, but
• 23:51
  Yeah, exactly.
• 23:52
  But we can't ultimately race if we haven't got the sponsors or the funding.
• 23:56
  But the one thing on all that is, and it's not just with the sponsors, it's with everything we do, projects, everything.
• 24:01
  I hate status quo and I hate doing the same thing twice.
• 24:04
  Change it up.
• 24:05
  I get bored really quickly.
• 24:07
  And it's not just from my side, but also if we're working with a sponsor and you keep doing the same thing year in, year out, it becomes stale and boring and then you don't get them to continue.
• 24:15
  So every year we're trying to mix things up, whether it's in social media, whether it's with activations we're doing behind the scenes.
• 24:21
  Whether it's with the programs we're doing.
• 24:23
  I'd say probably the only sort of common thing we have is probably New Zealand Rally Championship and that's simply because we have a goal with Hyundai to try and win 10 New Zealand titles.
• 24:31
  What are you up to now?
• 24:32
  I come from my brain's five.
• 24:33
  Seven now.
• 24:33
  Seven now.
• 24:34
  Yeah, yeah.
• 24:35
  But other than that, the repetition side of it, I don't enjoy so much.
• 24:38
  Obviously, I love driving.
• 24:39
  I love driving the best rallies in the world.
• 24:41
  But I also like challenging myself with new challenges.
• 24:44
  Yeah, we're trying to always push the barrier.
• 24:45
  That naturally leads us to the electric car.
• 24:48
  Something like 10,000 hours of development went into that thing.
• 24:51
  I reckon I can vividly recall you showcasing it for the first time at Jack's Ridge a few years ago.
• 24:56
  That's certainly the first place I saw it.
• 24:59
  What made you decide that you wanted to pursue that project?
• 25:04
  I mean, my question here is...
• 25:07
  I separately I work on a branded podcast called what's under the bonnet which is about electric cars and it's been a journey of discovery for me I've got teenage daughters that come and ask me about these things I don't profess to know enough about it but it's clearly a direction one part of the direction that manufacturers are going right so you've obviously honed in on that and and the need to explore that and so on where did that whole notion of of an electric rally car come from
• 25:32
  Yeah, so someone, I remember a phone call in 2017, they mentioned the idea of it and I laughed them off the phone because I'm a petrol head like anyone else.
• 25:40
  But just being involved with the factory team for, what was it, five years we were involved with them for, you could see the involvement the manufacturer had.
• 25:48
  Obviously they're investing a lot of money, like up to 100 million euros a year type budgets.
• 25:53
  And you could also see a lot of the technology was taken from the WRC team was then later used in the road cars.
• 25:58
  So in this case, the N model cars that were coming out, there was a lot of stuff in that that come from the WRC car.
• 26:02
  So there needed to be some relevance.
• 26:04
  And, you know, very quickly I had to see when I was coming back home to New Zealand and I was getting loaned cars, whether it be a Santa Fe or something,
• 26:10
  I was seeing more technology in this road car I was driving than what I was in this one and a half million dollar WRC car.
• 26:15
  And it's sort of become very quickly apparent to me that the sport's fallen behind.
• 26:19
  Like motorsport has always traditionally been the test bed for the automotive industry, whether it be performance or safety.
• 26:25
  At the leading edge.
• 26:25
  At the leading edge, whether it was Formula One or WRC.
• 26:28
  And the sport, because the automotive industry is developing and evolving very quickly at the moment, whether we agree or not.
• 26:34
  the sport's actually fallen behind.
• 26:35
  And if it falls too far behind, we'll simply lose the manufacturers because for them, it will then become like they're selling cars and racing horses.
• 26:42
  There'll be no relevance.
• 26:44
  So I thought there was an opportunity there and we went after it.
• 26:48
  And to be honest, it's created a lot of opportunities for us in terms of commercial partnerships
• 26:53
  It's kept our Hyundai partnership going.
• 26:56
  The car's phenomenal to drive.
• 26:58
  Yeah, as I say, it doesn't have that noise factor and that I love as much as anyone else.
• 27:01
  You have tried to create a bit of noise.
• 27:03
  We have got some noise and it is a work in progress.
• 27:05
  And I think all that stuff's going to develop over time.
• 27:07
  The biggest thing though is we need an open mind and we are looking at now integrating some new tech into it going forward.
• 27:13
  We need to be an R&D technology motorsport company for us, for our future in terms of our business, my motorsport career.
• 27:21
  But there's no point in us sitting around being stubborn about it, going, no, no, I don't like it, and because I don't like it, I'm not going to do anything about it.
• 27:26
  If we do that, we're just going to be stuck in the dark ages.
• 27:29
  Our team won't exist, our guys' jobs won't exist, and I won't be able to drive cars.
• 27:33
  So we're pushing forward.
• 27:35
  We're trying to show a bit of, I guess,
• 27:37
  Innovation.
• 27:38
  Innovation.
• 27:38
  Innovation.
• 27:39
  And the innovation side I really love because the Rally 2 car, as cool as some of those cars are, you can't do anything.
• 27:45
  If you break something or you want to fix something, you have to go buy the part and you bolt it on.
• 27:49
  The EV car, we're able to design everything on that car.
• 27:51
  There's a lot of very bespoke stuff that's unique to us.
• 27:54
  Even some wild ideas we might have had.
• 27:56
  We might have just designed and built it.
• 27:58
  Stuff that you used to be able to do 40, 50 years ago, we've now been able to do again.
• 28:01
  And I've enjoyed that.
• 28:03
  Our engineers and guys have enjoyed it.
• 28:05
  So to be honest, change brings opportunity.
• 28:08
  And that's what we're going through now is this change.
• 28:10
  And some people want to sit back and complain, which is fine.
• 28:13
  But I'm not going to do that.
• 28:15
  I don't want to sit around 20, 30 years time saying we didn't try and do something.
• 28:19
  I want to try and do something to save our sport.
• 28:22
  And yeah, I think this is part of that process.
• 28:23
  So what sort of torque numbers are you getting out of it at the moment?
• 28:26
  Yeah, so we're a little bit limited at the moment with the battery.
• 28:31
  That whole thing amazes me.
• 28:32
  I mean, the battery development, where they're going with solid state, all that kind of stuff.
• 28:37
  I mean, five years.
• 28:38
  It's surviving so much.
• 28:39
  Yeah.
• 28:39
  Our battery is three years old now, but it's already old technology.
• 28:42
  We were waiting on a new battery, which unfortunately the pin got pulled out a few months ago.
• 28:46
  So that sort of left us a bit...
• 28:48
  high and dry, so that's why we're now going down a different route to engineer a solution ourselves.
• 28:54
  But based on what we currently got, we're around sort of 400 Nm.
• 28:56
  We've got three motors on it, which at peak power would be 600 kW if we can get that out of the battery.
• 29:01
  So again, the battery is our limitation.
• 29:04
  But as I say...
• 29:06
  if the battery was up to spec like it should be, right now we should be able to get 600 kilowatts out of it and 600 newtometres of torque with our current motor set up.
• 29:15
  So, yeah, it's evolving quickly.
• 29:17
  Like you say, solid state's becoming a bigger thing.
• 29:19
  Hydrogen's becoming a bigger thing.
• 29:22
  So I think given another three years, I think this type of car will be completely different again to what it is now.
• 29:28
  Wow.
• 29:28
  The hydrogen thing intrigues me because lots of manufacturers are now talking about that as an option as well.
• 29:34
  I mean, have you...
• 29:35
  you know, come to understand that and thought about that and all that sort of stuff.
• 29:38
  Oh, it's certainly something we're looking at.
• 29:39
  The beauty is, and I think there's a bit of an understanding out there, that hydrogen doesn't mean liquid hydrogen into a combustion motor.
• 29:46
  Toyota have been trialling that, obviously.
• 29:48
  But the mass are actually doing fuel cell hydrogen, which is effectively an electric drivetrain still.
• 29:53
  So you've still got your electric motors.
• 29:55
  You've still got to have a battery for storage.
• 29:56
  Not as big a battery, but then you're using, obviously, hydrogen gas, and it goes through a fuel cell unit to create that gas into energy that then powers electric motors.
• 30:05
  And...
• 30:06
  Why it makes sense in some regards is that, you know, I find electric will become the petrol replacement and hydrogen might become the diesel replacement.
• 30:15
  But between the fuel cell and electric car, you've still got the same platform.
• 30:18
  You've still got the electric motors.
• 30:19
  You still have the same chassis, but you're changing the big battery for hydrogen systems.
• 30:23
  If you have an electric car and a liquid hydrogen, well, not liquid, but hydrogen,
• 30:29
  working through a combustion type motor, it's a completely different platform.
• 30:32
  And from a manufacturer's point of view, in terms of mass producing cars, that ain't going to make financial sense having two cars so different.
• 30:38
  Like at the moment, a petrol and diesel car, you still got similar gearboxes and diffs and everything, just the motors are different.
• 30:44
  So you've still got the same platform.
• 30:45
  So I see the same similarities between electric and fuel cell hydrogen.
• 30:49
  The two of them can work together and one will be for long range bits and pieces and electric or solid, say battery, whatever it may be, will be for like your petrol replacements.
• 30:58
  A couple to get us to the end here.
• 31:00
  You announced during the week that you built a car.
• 31:04
  Tell us a little bit about the car that you built.
• 31:06
  Three cars, in fact.
• 31:07
  Three cars.
• 31:07
  Sorry, sorry.
• 31:08
  No, it's been a little project we've been doing throughout the year.
• 31:10
  Just so.
• 31:11
  Why is there never a little project with you, is there?
• 31:14
  Well, now reasonably little.
• 31:15
  We tried to keep them quite standard, shall we say.
• 31:18
  But, yeah, three Hyundai i30N track cars, so the club cars.
• 31:21
  Obviously, I'm pretty proud of the brand Hyundai, and they've got a really good product.
• 31:24
  And the N model car is a performance car.
• 31:27
  And I've driven them, I've thrashed them around the roads and stuff a few times.
• 31:30
  I think this would actually make a really good target or race car.
• 31:32
  So we finally did it.
• 31:34
  We had to start with a brand new car though.
• 31:36
  So that means that they're probably a little bit more expensive than what we'd like.
• 31:39
  But cool cars, reliable, like we've done 30,000 Ks in our demo one.
• 31:45
  And they weren't an easy 30,000 Ks and no issues at all.
• 31:48
  And again, through the business, a lot of that's come from, we see a lot of people in motorsport, especially club and grassroots,
• 31:55
  They have cool cars, but a lot of those old cars become like a graveyard for money.
• 31:59
  They just keep piling money into them, money, money, money, and they keep breaking, and people, again, lose motivation.
• 32:04
  And I think for our sport, we need to keep people motivated, and easy motorsport is a way to motivate people.
• 32:09
  So these cars, they should be the hammer-in for three, four years.
• 32:12
  They still have warranties on them.
• 32:14
  They look cool.
• 32:15
  They're fast enough.
• 32:16
  So, yeah, we want to see more Hyundai's out there on the racetrack and Targa's, and these cars have come up looking pretty good, I think.
• 32:21
  They sure have.
• 32:22
  That should be cool.
• 32:23
  The whole energy around N is amazing.
• 32:26
  I mean, it's like you talked about Subaru and Possum Born before and stuff like that.
• 32:30
  I mean, it's got that whole aura or thing that's growing, isn't it?
• 32:34
  Yeah, well, they launched the N brand around the WRC program.
• 32:37
  Like before WRC, Hyundai weren't doing anything in the performance arena.
• 32:41
  So now...
• 32:42
  The N brand's taken off.
• 32:42
  They've got a lot of different models.
• 32:43
  They've got the new Ioniq 5N electric car coming or launching in New Zealand next year.
• 32:48
  That's phenomenal, that car.
• 32:49
  That's massive power, drift modes.
• 32:52
  It's a proper, proper sports electric car.
• 32:54
  That's going to be pretty cool.
• 32:56
  But yeah, the N division has grown into something huge in Korea, in South Korea where they're based.
• 33:02
  And yeah, obviously they're doing a lot more than just rallying motorsport-wise.
• 33:05
  They're obviously involved a lot in TCR.
• 33:07
  I wouldn't be surprised if they launch another type of global motorsport program in the future as well.
• 33:12
  So Hyundai are definitely very driven on the performance side.
• 33:15
  And you think even as a brand, like you go back, what, maybe 15, 20 years ago, what Hyundai was as a brand and a product.
• 33:20
  compared to what it is now, it's come along night and day.
• 33:23
  It sure has.
• 33:24
  You do do a little bit of tarmac stuff from time to time, which probably complements the rally program in some respects.
• 33:29
  I've seen you in a Porsche with Martin Dippy and Ronan Murphy, I think, very recently and so on.
• 33:33
  Do you enjoy the circuit stuff?
• 33:34
  Oh, yeah, I love it.
• 33:36
  Driving Marty's Porsche is awesome.
• 33:38
  He's very good to us, obviously part of that Mitre 10 trade family.
• 33:41
  And, yeah, I like driving that Porsche at the 6 hour.
• 33:43
  Cool car.
• 33:44
  Love the car.
• 33:45
  Anytime you get to drive a cool car is a privilege.
• 33:48
  probably not my cup of tea in the sense that you're just going around in circles for an hour and 40 and not much was going on.
• 33:52
  So again, I get bored easily, remember?
• 33:56
  You like different tracks?
• 33:57
  Yeah, I like a bit of variation.
• 33:59
  So yeah, I didn't quite have that.
• 34:01
  But the driver car I love.
• 34:03
  And I guess sprint racing is probably a little bit different.
• 34:05
  We did a bit of TCR stuff and when there was private battles and stuff, it was really good.
• 34:09
  But the...
• 34:10
  I enjoy driving around a racetrack and back myself that I can do a reasonable job.
• 34:13
  But the thing that's different for me and it's going to be the same tonight with the Speedway is having people around you.
• 34:19
  I'm only used to looking forward.
• 34:21
  I'm not used to looking in mirrors.
• 34:22
  So that's what I've got to adapt to.
• 34:24
  We are talking on the eve of the Superstock Charity Invitational here in Rotorua, which has been put together recently.
• 34:32
  with all sorts of people from different motorsport genres or disciplines and so on.
• 34:37
  You're all in stock cars.
• 34:39
  Last night, three sessions of practice, which was good fun.
• 34:42
  I sense it's going to go to another level tonight, Hayden.
• 34:45
  I'm a bit nervous about it, to be honest.
• 34:46
  So my body's a little bit fragile, and these put in some big knocks.
• 34:51
  So I hope there's a gentleman's agreement.
• 34:53
  But the problem is, and I'm as bad as everyone else.
• 34:56
  You get competitive, you guys.
• 34:58
  Once you put on the helmet, this is a different mindset.
• 35:01
  It's like the little bit of sense that we have just goes out the window.
• 35:04
  So no, I'm sure we'll, I think everyone will be sensible because I think all the V8 guys, all this season starts in February, March.
• 35:10
  So I think we're all in the same boat.
• 35:11
  Congratulations.
• 35:12
  European Rally Champions this year, which I think is amazing.
• 35:15
  You have taken what would have been for some a massive kick in the guts.
• 35:20
  You've remained loyal because that's who you are with Hyundai and so on.
• 35:24
  And you've built this thing here in New Zealand that you're now taking to the world, which I reckon is unreal.
• 35:29
  And you've got some great people around you.
• 35:32
  I'm
• 35:33
  in your element, mate, and that you're enjoying that.
• 35:35
  I know that comes with a lot of hard work.
• 35:37
  Have a great Christmas, and we hope that 2024 is even more successful for you.
• 35:41
  Really appreciate it.
• 35:42
  You too.
• 35:42
  Thanks so much.
• 35:49
  Rusty's Garage is written and presented by me, Greg Rust.
• 35:53
  Series editor and producer is Thomas Dullard.
• 35:56
  Audio production by Link Kelly.
• 35:59
  If you've got a guest suggestion, get in touch with me via social media.
• 36:03
  The Garage, that's where a journey begins with a tank full of passion-fuelled stories.