Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed S1 E3 - Jamie Kasman and Michael Forman

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Networking Unleashed S1 E3 - Jamie Kasman and Michael Forman · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

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  Hello everybody, this is Michael Forman.
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  I am with Networking Unleashed Building Profitable Connections.
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  And today I have an amazing guest.
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  His name is Jamie.
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  We've been friends for about 50 years.
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  But we both started in New York, worked our way down to Georgia.
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  And he started really as a creative director on up to his owning his own business.
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  But let me let me introduce you to Jamie and let him discuss everything with you.
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  Jamie.
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  Hi Michael.
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  So my background starts even earlier as an entrepreneur.
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  I started a law-mowing business with my brother, my twin brother, identical at the age of 13.
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  And actually ran that business for 10 years.
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  My brother and I put ourselves through school, had money to buy houses when we got married
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  later on in our 20s.
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  And kind of started the networking and relationship building on marketing our landscape business.
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  Basically really saying hello to people and explaining what we could do and letting the
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  work really prove itself.
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  Most of the work we got even starting then was referral due to the great work we did.
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  And that lesson actually has followed me throughout my life.
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  And I could elaborate a little more on that later on.
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  I went to Parsons School of Design for Communications and then VSA for additional courses.
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  My first job out of college was working, if anyone can remember, we used to do paste up.
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  And basically that's when you made a mechanical to go to the printer to get printing.
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  So the funny story is as I was working out of Parsons, there was a sign above this big
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  classroom saying computer room.
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  And I'm going, what was that?
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  What's going on?
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  And I learned later on at my first job that PCs, basically Macs were coming in and were
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  going to be used to actually create mechanicals.
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  So part of my networking, I got a job working for Timeplex in their production department
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  where we were doing a thousand page mechanicals, believe it or not, for all the instructional
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  books.
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  And I'm sitting there and I remember me, I see all these new computers.
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  There was five production people in there.
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  I was a freelancer and they liked my work and they said, Hey, do you know about computers?
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  I said, sure.
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  Of course, they didn't know a damn thing.
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  I picked it up very quickly.
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  Apple was very intuitive.
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  A matter of fact, in good corporate sense, we worked on six months on the application.
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  It was called Interlace.
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  And then six months later, they sent us a trainer.
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  And of course, we've been working six months in this platform and then started training
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  the trainer because we were doing things like illustrations in this basic page layout
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  system, the instructor home with a lot of hints and different aspects of the platform
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  that can be used in laying out these books.
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  So I know that was a long intro.
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  After that, I moved to Atlanta and started in a production house, a company called SFI,
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  Standard Forms Incorporated.
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  So you can imagine they were around for a long time and then making a shift like every
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  printer to digital.
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  And then I helped build their production studio and then became involved in sales and networking
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  and doing business presentations.
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  What do you think, Mike?
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  Was that what?
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  Let me ask you a question.
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  What personal experience impacted your business sense the most?
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  You know, I guess I had the right and left brain.
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  You know, most people have right, most people have left.
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  I definitely have the creative side, but I do have the business side since I ran my
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  own business.
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  So I was always aware of ROI.
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  Great.
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  You know, everyone wants ROI.
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  I was able to get into management and sales and not as a true salesperson, more as a
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  networking and kind of category expert.
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  So I would be brought in at the end to close the deal because I could speak to the marketing,
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  I could speak to the business, I could speak to the strategy, the planning, execution,
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  innovation and how all that happened.
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  And again, you know, in my career, it was always transitioning to digital and obviously
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  today it's 100% digital, but still back 20 years ago, it was a combination and evolving
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  that and then getting into social media in the past 10 years and working that how to
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  make themes and campaigns and actually reach the market and reach the people using my network
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  of people to do that.
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  So everything I've done, it's been a team effort.
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  And not only did I network to get business, I networked to have freelancers, everything
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  from writers, video production, illustrators, photographers.
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  So it takes a team just like any movie, if you see a thousand names when it's in the
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  credits, it does take a team to put together a good campaign, follow through and then report
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  back on success.
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  Well, you know, that's interesting.
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  But with everything you've done, what do you think is your biggest challenge or was your
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  your biggest challenge and how did you overcome it?
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  Sometimes the biggest challenge is internal with the sales force because they are always
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  afraid of something new and something that they can't control or manage.
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  So that would be my biggest hurdle of them selling marketing because it's kind of really,
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  it's kind of vaporware.
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  It doesn't exist.
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  You could talk about it, but it has to be created.
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  It has to be a collaboration with the client and the salesperson and the production team.
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  So that's probably the biggest hurdle of trying to get people to understand how the new technology
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  works and the investment and follow through.
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  So there's always been a fight of budgets that continue today.
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  It's just expensive and you have to have the fortitude to do a campaign.
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  When I mean a campaign, it's more than just one social media trying to go viral.
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  It's a year or 18 months of planning and then responding to that and measuring and every
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  quarter changing and pivoting if you have to.
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  One client, we did a kickoff and realized the messaging in the beginning was just slightly
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  off and we made a few adjustments and it exploded.
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  So just knowing to look at the data, seeing what's coming through and then pivoting is
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  also very important.
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  So that's the things I've learned throughout my career.
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  Yeah.
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  So it's really not a one and done type situation.
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  You have to constantly look at it and evaluate it and pivot where you aren't sort of speak.
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  Correct.
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  Correct.
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  And I was heavily into B2B.
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  So it's not B2C.
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  It's not a product.
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  We did some product marketing, but for the most part, we were B2B, selling enterprise
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  accounts, get brand awareness for enterprises, for printers, things that are very hard to
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  market because you're competing against an industry that's been around a hundred years
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  and trying to introduce new technology.
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  Sometimes it's a tough sell that it's a little more expensive.
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  And again, it's the ROI is substantial.
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  Talk about the ROI often, but here you are.
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  You owned a business when you were 13 and networked and marketed everything you had to do on up
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  to CEOs.
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  So for somebody just starting out, what type of a networking tip or what could you suggest
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  somebody to do to really that they can start tomorrow and really just start networking and
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  getting out there?
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  Well, one of the best network is friends and family.
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  You just have to ask.
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  You just have to ask, do you know someone and just give me an introduction.
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  Cold networking today is tough just due to you could throw a resume out there and you're
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  competing against thousands.
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  And you're also competing against the bots that's really going to select you that may
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  or may not be a good fit.
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  So starting with friends and family, even after graduation, following your friends and where
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  they're going and seeing looking at their network and you're asking to share that network,
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  it's really right there in front of you.
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  You just have to ask and don't rely so much on actually the social network online and
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  so forth.
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  You really make a phone call, do an email, try to do a one on one and tell people what
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  you're looking for and how they could help you.
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  Again filling out applications.
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  Not a bad thing, but again, you're competing against so many when you have a warm introduction
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  saying, Michael, I have a friend who has a position open.
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  I'm going to connect you with him, whether it's a phone call, email or text is going
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  to go a long way.
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  And that goes to our business.
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  It's about relationships.
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  Starting new relationships is like starting a new friendship.
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  It's not easy.
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  You have to have the same legs or the same mind of what the target audience is as far
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  as selling and understanding that audience.
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  So having a warm introduction is really the best networking advice I could give.
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  And that's really how I've worked my whole career.
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  Not only with the corporate, but when I had my own agency, Atomik Wash, it was through
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  referrals, we were referral based.
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  We did try the social media.
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  My partner was kind of into that and we spent money, but our best success was me pounding
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  the pavement, calling your friends that moved to new businesses and had a new position and
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  say, all right, I'm going to give you two months and I want to knock on that door and
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  just get an introduction.
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  One of the biggest successes was just doing a quick presentation of a PowerPoint.
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  Now this wasn't an ordinary PowerPoint.
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  It was a video PowerPoint with a storyline and voiceover.
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  And it was kind of wowed the audience.
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  And when they started talking about how we could do this within our agency, you know
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  you have them one.
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  And that one presentation led to millions of dollars worth of business in a five year
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  relationship until they got acquired.
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  So you don't always have to have the biggest agency.
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  You just have to have really good content and really smart presentations that tell your
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  story succinctly.
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  Yeah, you would have to get to the know, like and trust, right?
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  You know, to know you to like you and to trust you.
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  But that trust factor is like the biggest factor because everybody knows you.
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  Listen, they love you.
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  You're a nice guy.
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  Right.
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  Now, do they like you?
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  Well, then you're kind of, you know, fit with a little bit, but trust you.
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  That's the number one thing.
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  So when you're making that presentation and you're getting to them and all of a sudden
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  they know you, they like you and all of a sudden trust you, you can do wonders.
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  Exactly.
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  And you really start off just as for a small project.
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  It doesn't have to be a hundred thousand dollar project or a ten thousand dollar project.
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  The first project that we did for that million dollar client was $2,500.
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  And we proved it ourselves.
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  We got it on time and they loved it.
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  And they gave us a few more than we got to a presentation, a PowerPoint presentation.
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  Then we got to trade shows.
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  Then we got to social media and then we got to branding.
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  So really the way we built trust was building success.
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  And it's really success for the client.
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  I'll tell you a story where I started in the production, worked my way up to VP of creative
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  services.
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  I had 14, over the 13 years, I had 14 bosses.
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  So every time I'd have a new boss, I'd have a meeting and I'm saying here, I'm here to
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  make you, that's what my job is.
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  This is what I did for your predecessor.
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  And we were making success.
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  Unfortunately, he made some other mistakes, not in marketing, but was replaced or moved
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  on in the company.
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  But I could do that for you.
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  And that was my pitch.
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  And every time I did that, I would go on and build success with that executive.
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  And that's kind of how we just built success.
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  Let us prove ourselves by showing you what we could do and how we never fail.
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  That's one of the things that we said, we never fail.
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  If it takes us 10 times to reach that goal and the expectation that you have, the price
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  is not going to go up.
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  We're going to get there because if we missed it, if we failed, that's on us.
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  It's not always on you.
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  Now, a lot of times, the clients didn't know what they want and they would give us misdirection,
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  but we would evolve it fairly quickly.
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  And you kind of learn that, all right, this one made what I would call, this is a marketing
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  project, so we didn't make any money on it.
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  But we proved that we could take something that's really difficult, that they couldn't
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  articulate and build success and have something that they could show to their executives and
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  superiors and be proud of.
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  And that's what we did.
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  And then the ROI would be better.
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  So it was really, again, collaboration and coordination with our clients and with our
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  staff, the dedication of working late, working weekend sometimes, just an agency life, and
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  the highs and lows are really busy.
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  And then sometimes we'd have a gap, but Chris and I built a business and our practice was
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  to have enough money in the bank to support all payroll and all expenses for a year.
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  It took us about three years to build that.
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  So we were confident that even in a low, we could support our staff.
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  We had a staff of 10 at the highest point, and we could support them for a year.
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  Of course, knowing we would get more business, we were confident we could do that, but we
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  never wanted to lay anyone off.
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  We all were in that position, and we were not going to do that.
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  And we did not do that.
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  And then we got acquired by a business and sold and then worked for another five years
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  for that corporation.
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  So let me ask you a question.
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  So you've told me all sorts of networking and marketing ideas, how you made it and everything
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  else.
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  Tell me, what's your favorite marketing tactic?
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  You know what?
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  Getting someone out to lunch or dinner kind of breaks the barriers.
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  For me, it's always around food.
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  Take a minute to dinner.
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  Exactly.
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  You know, have drinks, have coffee.
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  It just takes it out of the office and you can have a conversation.
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  You can talk a little about families and get a little more history about them.
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  Get some of their true pain points and how we could provide solutions to those pain points.
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  And that's what our job is.
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  We're there to help them.
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  That's the number one thing.
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  Everybody's got a problem.
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  Every business, everybody.
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  And what you have to do is you have to find a solution to that problem.
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  And if you do that reasonably priced, you're going to make it.
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  Yes.
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  You know?
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  So it'll have everything.
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  I'm trying to close this up here a little bit and give me your number one takeaway that
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  my audience can start doing tomorrow if they want to start networking.
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  That's a big question, by the way, Chris.
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  I would recommend doing a few different things.
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  You know, social media, as far as your social media, your friends and group of family is
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  a good place to start.
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  You can always tell people that, hey, I'm looking for a job or I'm looking for a project.
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  This is my skill set.
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  Just get me introduction.
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  That's really, again, I'm going to really harp on that.
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  The other one, I would recommend, depending on where you are, now I'm coming from a creative
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  aspect, right?
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  I would get a headhunter if you're looking for a higher level position because they really
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  could actually position you for a project as freelance headhunters or a full-time position.
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  They really help and I've had great success actually hiring from them over the past 30
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  years.
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  And it's a great way to expand your network that you would never be able to get to.
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  So they're getting you that warm introduction, saying, I have a perfect person for your firm
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  and they have this skill set and keep your resume current and to the point because that's
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  what people want to see.
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  They want to see what you can do, how you could think.
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  And I was always looking for thinkers, by the way.
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  That was my main thing when I was hiring people.
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  I could always train someone to work on a platform, but I can't train them to think.
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  So if you can think and show them that you could think, you will be hired because that's
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  what they want.
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  And that's how I'm working as problem solving.
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  And if I get someone to solve a problem, I could sell that, whether it's design, whether
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  it's a trade show, whether it's promoting a new product or how to promote a new product.
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  If I get someone to offer a unique view on how to sell that, that's a winning networking
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  proposition.
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  So when you speak to people, you just can't say all the successes I had.
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  You tell them how you did the success.
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  It's like a case study of yourself.
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  That's going to help people how you came up with it.
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  And by the way, show them the sketch that you started.
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  If you started on a napkin, great idea.
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  I do that all the time.
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  We even go back sometimes and say, because we sketch on the whiteboard and then we don't
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  take a picture, we say, we shouldn't have taken a picture.
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  So if you did it from a sketch, just show them.
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  This is where I started.
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  And here's the end result, whether it's a paper, whether it's a magazine ad, whether
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  it's a video, whether it's social media.
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  Show them how you developed that kernel of an idea and actually expanded it to actually
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  promote a product or service the client was asking for.
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  And people like that.
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  That's what I look for when I'm hiring.
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  So you can show me the process.
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  Absolutely.
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  Absolutely.
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  And that's what I was looking for also when I was hiring.
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  I would also look for the same thing because I can teach them how to use a piece of equipment
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  or how to do anything else, but you can't teach them to think.
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  Right.
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  So Jamie Lim is your question.
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  If somebody was interested in Jamie Kazman, how could they get in touch with you?
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  They could email me at Jamie Kazman at gmail.com.
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  That was good.
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  That was good.
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  Are you able to get that?
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  Yeah.
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  Jamie, J-A-M-I-E-K-A-S-M-A-N at gmail.com.
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  And I'll get back to them.
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  And even if they're just asking for advice, anyone in your audience needs help, feel free
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  to email.
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  And I will get back to them right away.
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  Right.
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  Jamie, I want to thank you.
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  You are a wonderful guest.
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  And I look forward to talking to you again.
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  Thank you, Michael.
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  Okay.
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  Bye-bye.
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  Oh, my God.
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  This has been another episode of Networking Unleashed, Building Profitable Connections.
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  First of all, to all my brethren, to all the veterans of these United States, thank you
• 20:17
  for your service.
• 20:19
  Second, if you'd like to offer me a call, I always give to Tunnel.org.
• 20:26
  That's t2t.org.
• 20:30
  Thank you.