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Fictional Women Around the World: Sharon Carter · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and I'm welcome to
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Stefan Never told You Protection of I Heart Radio, and
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: welcome to another segment of fictional women around the world
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: are segment sub segment, as I like to call it.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: For today's episode, since Falcon in the Winter Soldier just
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: finished or kind of just finished, and the theories are rampant,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: we're gonna do a primer on Sharon Carter with no
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: spoilers UM or at least probably not, and we are
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: focusing mainly on the m c U, the Marvel Cinematic
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Universalist Comics UM and I did start working on this
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: before the finale. I have now seen the finale, but
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: it's just it's kind of funny because I was gonna
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: I was trying to like catch the wave because everyone
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: was speculating about the show at the time, but then
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: we had to postpone it because I had to talk
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: about Star Wars because of Star Wars Day, so it
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: got too late a month and now I'm like, well,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I've kind of missed the wave, and we're also trying
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: not to spoil people. So it's an interesting intersection that
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: we're at right now. Right, yes, but people are still
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: they're still talking about it. They still got theories. And
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: as we've said before, the Marvel universe and multivers can
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: get real wacky, and every character has multiple red coons
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: or reincarnations by different creators or almost every character, And yeah,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: we're going to stick to the movies and shows for
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: this particular episode. So in the m c U, Sharon
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Carter is played by Emily Van Camp and she was
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: first introduced in Captain America The Winter Soldier. She was
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: a nurse lawyer, and then she reappeared in Civil War
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: and is on the Disney Plus show Falcon and The
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Winter Soldier. She is the great niece of Peggy Carter,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: a founder and creator of Shield, something she kept hidden
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: because she felt the pressure of her living up to
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: her was too high. She also looked up to her
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: aunt Peggy and wanted to be like her from a
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: young age. Yes, she tells the story of getting her
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: first thigh holster despite her mother's protest. Carter joined Shield
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: due to the encouragement of her great aunt. Yes, and
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: during the Winter Soldier movie she worked undercover under Nick
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Fury's direction, Yes, as the nurse to keep an eye
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: on Steve Rogers. Captain America. She says, like for protection,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: but I also felt like I was sort of like
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: spying because they weren't really sure what was up. There
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of scepterfuge in that movie. When Shield was
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: proven to be infiltrated by Hydra, she stuck by Captain
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: America and Shield loyal to Fury and Steve Rogers and
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: her actions helped save millions of lives. And she did
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: flirt a lot with Steve in this movie, and Steve
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: asked her out, which she did turn down. Steve did
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: not know she was related to Peggy, his first love. However,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: she did know that Aunt Peggy at the very least
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: was like way to this guy at one point. And yes,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: they did kiss in Civil War, So now I when
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: your soldier the next one they did and uh yeah,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: she says something like you waited long enough or took
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: you long enough, something like that. And people have talked
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: about this a lot. They've talked a lot about this moment,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: sometimes saying it was you desire for a family life.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Because he didn't know about time traveled in He didn't
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: know it was a chance that he could go back
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: in time. Also, does that make him her great uncle,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: her uncle. Well, I think it doesn't base on how
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: time travel works in these movies makes no sense. I
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: know it doesn't make sense, but I think that I
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: don't like it. It's true, it's true. I could be
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: absolutely wrong. I just know that the way they did
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: time travel in these movies is different in the way
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: most every other movie I've seen this time travel. And yeah,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: so he didn't know about time travel when they kissed.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Sharon's adoration for Steve, that she'd grown up with hearing
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: about him from her aunt Peggy, that maybe she'd kind
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: of like absorbed that, which is also kind of messed up.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: And in many ways she was similar to Peggy. I
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: can't imagine Peggy would approve. I'm just saying, right, yeah, yeah,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: And I do think this is a moment that a
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: lot of people have tried to forget has happened, but
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: they also find about it a lot, which we're going
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: to talk about more. Yeah, that it is odd when
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: you consider all of the different aspects going on. And
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know how old she's supposed to be or
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: how old Emily band Camp is, but it feels like
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: there's an age. I mean, there's obviously the age, like
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: he's old at this point. He is literally senior citizen
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: at this point. Yeah, he spent a lot of that
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: in ice though. Still no, I'm with you. I'm just saying, yeah,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: so him. We Van Camp said about it, quote you
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: sort of trust and hope that it all makes sense
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: in the end. I did have a few moments where
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: I wondered, what a we're going too far with this?
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Should this be more of an amicable, friendly moment? I
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: don't really know. I don't think any of us really knew.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's anyone's fault that it didn't totally
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: work in terms of the story. I don't think anyone
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: knew where that was headed or what we were going
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: to do with the moment. It was a sweet moment
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: as it was. I guess I saw a lot of articles.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say this is backhanded compliment, because
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: that's not really the right term. But we're like, she's
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: handled it really well. She's handled like when people ask
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: her about it, she's handled like very diplomatically, I guess,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: And certainly we've read stories and I'm struggling to think
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: of an example right now, but I know I've read
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: stories of like a vampire who like loves it's usually
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: male vampire loves this woman she ages in guys because
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: she's mortal, and it falls in love with her daughter,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: and it is weird, but it also kind of makes sense.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: But they're also monsters, so they typically thought of as
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: monsters and or stealing youth. So there's a whole level
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: of like. Because the other thing I just thought about,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: honestly was hook that's the same. I don't have you
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: ever seen yea Moira? So Wendy and Peter Pan they
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: were together. She grows old and Peter Pan comes to
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: get her, finds the daughter, not the granddaughter, it's the granddaughter,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: her granddaughter, and falls in love with her and decides
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: to stay for her. But I always thought that was
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: creepy too. I think it's hard to reconcile. I feel
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: like there's a part of me that gets it because
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: on one level it does make sense, not not necessarily,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I feel like sometimes you can
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: feel an attraction for someone that is not romantic, but
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: you feel it because it reminds you of something sentimental, Yeah,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: and you might confuse it for something that it's not,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: and it still feels weird, but I don't know. I
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: guess I can. It makes sense to be on some
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: level right that there would be something you know, Yeah,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I guess it's to me, it's kind of how they try.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: M c U was like, oh, look see they're romance.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: You just seem to force and unnecessary. Yeah, that's how
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: I felt to me. It felt like, oh my god,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: we've got to get some romance in here. There's not
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: that many ladies to choose from. We've really already Black
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Widows got her own thing and she was like our
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: one lady, So here's this one. She happens to be
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: related to that other lady well that you loved, but
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: he that is That is how it felt to me. Yeah,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: And I mean that's also a problem that we talked
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: about when we did our one division Spoiled episode that
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: I think the m c U has not necessarily their
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: fault because there is a lot going on, a lot
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: of storylines, but that means that sometimes it's suddenly like, oh, yes,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Wanda and Vision are in love, and we have not
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: done any thing but just tell you that they're in love.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: There's no one build up or anything. It's just like
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: together yes, exactly. I think the romance in general and
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: these movies kind of suffers from that issue, all right,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: But back to the kind of plot. When Shield was dissolved,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Sharon joined the CIA, was instrumental and helping Cap in
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: his search for Bucky after he was accused of bombing
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: the Vienna International Center, even returning the equipment to the
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: on the run at Captain America and its companions during
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: the Avengers Civil War, forcing her to go on the
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: run as well, and earning her the label enemy of State.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: This is also when Yeah said kiss with Captain America happened.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: She said late, that's what it was. She said, damn
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: right when he said that was a little late. H Yeah,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: exactly so. And it's at this point Steve didn't know
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: she was related to Peggy. She who Peggy had died
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: earlier in the movie, spoke at the funeral and kind
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: of giving Steve a talk during it. Yes, and I
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: like that speech, but it always reminds me of the
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: joke like make like a tree. You can get out
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: of here and make like a tree and leave, because
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: she's like make like a tree and plant, don't move,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: say you move. But I always think theyk a tree
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: and it's the opposite of what she was going for.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: So this is how she ended up in magrapor and
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Falcon and the Winter Soldier. There's no extradition there. She
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: was believed to have died in the snap, which worked
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: in her favor, but it was hard on her. She
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: couldn't contact her family or friends. She harbor's anger that
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: the Avengers didn't help her. Definitely more outwardly cynical than
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: we last saw her. She calls the whole hero thing
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: a joke. She had to work in the black market
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: to make a living, though she did say I thought
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: if I had to hustle, might as well enjoy the
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: life of a real hustler. Eventually, Sam Wilson, Captain America,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: got her a pardon for her help. We'll stop there.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Spoiler Wise that spoiler, Yeah, it's a little spoiler, but
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: no a spoiler. So she's very smart adapt do strategic
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: tactical quick on her fate. Obviously bilingual all spies needed
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: this right ambities and excels in subterfuge and combat and
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: weapons training. Yeah, somehow she was able to go through
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: that whole scene fighting. She was pretty bad. Later we
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: see she is good at reading people and being manipulative
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: and also just real lethal. She's very loyal up and
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: to a point, and her time on the run has
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: definitely hardened her. Yeah. In general, I will say her
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: storylines have been controversial. People have a lot of thoughts,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: as they do about Marvel stuff. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we'll
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: see where this goes. But yeah, people often do have
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: these really start opinions in this fandom and about women
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: in this fandom, and especially women going for what they want. Which, yeah,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: I'm not signing off on the story necessarily or saying
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: there wasn't there weren't issues in conversation to have, but
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: you can't Deny actually goes after what she wants. Um. Yeah, Um,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: I think I think they have come to the point
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: that at least they're making her a lot more interesting. Yes,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: But when asked about this controversy, the writer on The
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Falcon and the Winter Soldiers said, quote, she'd been shut
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: out by all the intelligence agencies, so that when she
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: tried to make her overtures to come back, they tried
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: to grab her and arrest her. So they forced her
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: into being a criminal. She was discarded, She was traded
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: by the institutions that made her, which was a big
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: theme in that Hole show. Right. Yeah, and I including Steve,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: including the past Captain America for someone like her already
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: had inferiority issues around her Aunt Peggy. That had to
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: really suck. And that is really pretty terrible that he
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: liked kissed her and then used her and then he
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: went from his bros, got them all out, but sure
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: didn't help her. Yeah, which again there's so many storylines
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: in these. I get that, you know, sometimes it's not
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: gonna I'll work out because she's not avenger, but it does.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: It's like one of your few women somebody if it
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: makes her feel like, yeah, just a tool that they
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: used to have romance. And then she's gone, right, which
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: is pretty terrible. And I think that she might maybe
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: she's a burnt Cinnamon role. She's not quite, but she's close.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: She's got a similar like she had. She had a
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: lot more optimism and kind of this like really loyalty
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: shining through. And then and last we saw her, it's
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: much more cynical then previously. Yes, she's also really quick
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: to say let's kill people, So that's true at the beginning. Yeah,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: that is true, and that's something that's always like the
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: superhero movies where you're left wondering like, are you knocking
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: out all these people or are they did right? Is this?
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Are you leaving dead bodies all up in your way?
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of seem like it. I know,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: they usually with Captain America, kind of went out of
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: the way to be like, he's not killing people. You know,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: he probably would have been if you're not going by
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: movie physics. But and that's also why I think the
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: trope of aliens or robots and villains is so popular,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: because we don't feel as bad usually unless they've really
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: made you feel sympathetic toward the aliens, but you don't
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: feel as that as as well. Did that superhero just
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: murder like hundred people? Right right? You're like, wait, wait,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: wait what? Well that was the big thing with what's
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: his name, John Walker? The kind of answer that in
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: America where he killed somebody very violently just because he
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: was angry, right exactly, there were a lot of issues,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: right he went to the dark side. Well, we shall
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: see what happens, and perhaps we'll revisit this topic in
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: the future. In the meantime, if you have any suggestions
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: for fictional women around the world. Are women around the world.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: You can email us or emails Stuff Media mom Stuff,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I Hurt Me You dot com. You can find us
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast or on Instagram at
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: stuff I Never Told You. Thanks as always to our
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: super producer Christina, Thank you, and thanks to you for
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: listening Stuff I Ever Told You the production of I
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcast from my Heart Radio, visit
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  Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.