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Avengers 142-143 script read: Go West, Young Gods! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Great Multi-Lane podcast.
• 0:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: We are queer friends of allies gathered to review and discuss the original X-Men comics in continuity order.
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: We are recording this in mid-January for an early April release because I'm taking a vacation but for this comes out, I am so happy to be joined by some of my very favorite people.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we are here to take you through Beast's next adventures with the Avengers.
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: In our read of Avengers 142 and 143 today, there are a lot of characters, there is a lot going on.
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: but mostly we could spend a bunch of time in the old West here.
• 0:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Today's story, the first issue is called Go West Young Gods.
• 0:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: It is from December 1975.
• 0:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Adventures 143 is from January 1976 and is called Right Between the Eons.
• 0:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Steve Engelhard is the writer on these books, George Perez on Pencil's Vince Colletta on Inks.
• 0:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Jenna's comment on colors, Tom, or Zikowski on letters, Marvin Wolfman is the editor.
• 1:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And on the second issue, it's the same creative team, except we got Sam Granger on Inks and George Russo's on colors.
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Chad Anderson.
• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: I will be playing your narrator, I am the Ringo Kid.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm Derek Nichols on back as Thor, this time a civilian and a coyote.
• 1:14
  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, this is Chandler Poling.
• 1:16
  [SPEAKER_18]: I am returning as Hawkeye, everybody's favorite, douche, and buzzbackster.
• 1:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: who is a worse douche than how guys.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, correct.
• 1:24
  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm Ruth Ann Price and I'm returning as your Scarlet Witch and standing in as moon dragon was up everybody on Dominic Milton.
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_16]: I will be playing vision today and also the two girl and kid.
• 1:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, I'm Adam Cassarine.
• 1:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll be here.
• 1:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: Captain America as long as well as ace at night writer.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: I
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: a met parent, Breismar rule is Ironman and Hyperion and also Bandit number two.
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_12]: Hi, I'm Amanda Mortini and I will be Kang the Kongora!
• 1:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Your gayest role yet.
• 1:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, I'm Allison Parrot and I'm going to be Patsy Walker in Bandit number four.
• 1:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: And I am a Taylor Russell.
• 2:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: I will be the resident X-Men, the Beast, Kid Colts, and Chavo Juarez.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_17]: And I'm Scott Free, and I'll be the Raw High Kid, and Man on a Train, and Bandit Number 3.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm Kevin Canary, and I am Mimo Tess, and Hugh Jones.
• 2:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then just 142, on the cover, the vision occupies the top left corner.
• 2:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Booker's only 25 cents, no Marvelite, your eyes aren't deceiving you, it really is the Avengers versus the wild western heroes of all.
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: In an old west town against a red sky, we see the raw hide, kid, the wringo, kid, the night rider, and the two gun-kid rushing toward four garrishly-clad superheroes.
• 2:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hawkeye, Baudron, Thor, Hammer up, plus Iron Man and Moon Dragon.
• 2:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: The two gun-kid yells, Mom, partners, shoot them down!
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: The face of the friend, this story you dare not miss, and there came a day, a day unlike any other when Earth's mightiest heroes and heroines found themselves united against a common threat.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: On that day, the Avengers were born to fight the foes no single superhero could withstand.
• 3:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Through the years their roster has prospered, changing many times, but their glory has never been denied.
• 3:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: He'd the call then, for now.
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: The Avengers assembled, Stan Lee presents the mighty Avengers, Go West, Young Gods, Thor, Moon Dragon, and Emeritus the Lord of Time, a travel to the year 1873 in search of a missing Hawkeye, and their eternal
• 3:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now let's join our heroes as a group of classical Western Marvel Cowboys right up.
• 3:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's too gun-kitten blue, his vest and cow hide.
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's a stride, his gray horse thunder.
• 3:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Kid cult in red and cow hide on his brown horse steal.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Raw hide kid and his military-inspired, double-breasted blue look on his gray horse nightwind.
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Nightwriter and his impossibly all white uniform on his white horse, Banshee.
• 3:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And in the back, the ringgoat kid all in black on his horse, A-Rab.
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_17]: Hands up old hoot.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_17]: This is this the raw hot kid talking at you again.
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_17]: It's owl owl hoot.
• 4:00
  [SPEAKER_17]: I know I was trip over that hands up owl hoot.
• 4:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is the raw hot kid talking at you eat him demons Or we shall destroy you where you stand
• 4:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: by Kaktai, the bald goddess Moon Dragon stands nearly naked her giant green collar around her head, surely a shocking sight in the 1860s.
• 4:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thor stands near here, long blonde locks on his shoulders, his pointed and winged helmet secure on his head, may y'all in their end his hand, and in mortice in a dark green tunic with purple cape and elevator hat, watches as the old outlaws draw their guns.
• 4:34
  [SPEAKER_14]: What manner of men are these, Thunder God?
• 4:37
  [SPEAKER_14]: Can they not see who we are?
• 4:38
  [SPEAKER_10]: Or is they cannot priestess?
• 4:40
  [SPEAKER_10]: What is a God to a cowboy?
• 4:42
  [SPEAKER_09]: Yet, your knowledge, other adopted land is faulty, Thor!
• 4:47
  [SPEAKER_09]: If you fail to recognize these men as more than mere cowboys!
• 4:52
  [SPEAKER_09]: Next to the rawha kid, sits the two gun-kid and behind him rides kid cults, and to his left.
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_09]: The original Night Rider, and to the rear, the Ringo Kid.
• 5:06
  [SPEAKER_10]: And you, and more to stand at the Norse god of Thunder, who duff to test Fiong.
• 5:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: A world hammer and suddenly rain falls.
• 5:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Lightning strikes the ground scaring the horses.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: C'mon, uh, Rahat, these rannies ain't no ordinary adults.
• 5:20
  [SPEAKER_17]: That's for dang sure Ringo, I figured a hawk I fell was local enough.
• 5:24
  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, did you hear?
• 5:25
  [SPEAKER_14]: They know about hawk.
• 5:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: I heard, Moon Dragon, and I say, enough.
• 5:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: With a simple grasp of his hammer, the storm clears and the cowboys are soaked for picks to gun right up off the ground and puts him back on his horse.
• 5:38
  [SPEAKER_10]: What kind of people are you?
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_10]: That will take some time.
• 5:41
  [SPEAKER_10]: You do know where Hawkeye is?
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_10]: Then come, cowboy.
• 5:44
  [SPEAKER_10]: Take us to the.
• 5:45
  [SPEAKER_10]: We have journey far to find him.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_10]: Even now, mortal danger does close upon him.
• 5:49
  [SPEAKER_17]: Moon Dragon with bear legs climbs up behind the gays of the group and shares his saddle.
• 5:54
  [SPEAKER_17]: Listen, ma'am.
• 5:55
  [SPEAKER_17]: I ride nowhere with a bald-headed female up behind.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_14]: If you'd have me fly, kid, I cannot ride on.
• 6:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you'd have me fly, raw-hide ponders that until four actually does take to the air using his hammer to soar as the others pursue on horses, immortal writing with kid cult.
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: After that, the Western Wranglers are only too glad to write on, an hour's gallop lifts them onto a mesa, giving plenty of time for a thorough if bewildering introductions.
• 6:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Then our heroes pull up into an old west town, all wooden with dusty streets.
• 6:27
  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, here we are, down below the town of Tumstong, where I usually hang my spurs, where I have it to carefully in it from this point.
• 6:34
  [SPEAKER_16]: Why?
• 6:35
  [SPEAKER_16]: That man would take some time to do.
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: And that rye will stay with the ponies.
• 6:39
  [SPEAKER_04]: He hates towns.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like shadows, they slip from the rocks and sculpt down the wide, deserted streets.
• 6:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Not a soul seems to stir in the town, but the gods from the future know there are people here.
• 6:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: They can feel them behind the bolted shutters and darkened doors.
• 6:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: They can feel their fear.
• 6:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: They silently approached the local law office in town out of Matthew J. Hawk attorney.
• 7:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Shh, that's the secret identity of the two gun kid.
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: And inside, a certain shirtless archer is practicing his archery.
• 7:07
  [SPEAKER_16]: So far, so good.
• 7:08
  [SPEAKER_16]: This is a friend of mine, Albert's.
• 7:10
  [SPEAKER_18]: Very open.
• 7:11
  [SPEAKER_18]: A great two gun, but then Udon's blood.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_18]: Whoa.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_18]: Only one person in the world talks like that.
• 7:17
  [SPEAKER_18]: It can't be, but it is.
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_18]: It is.
• 7:19
  [SPEAKER_18]: Hawkeye, it's just good to see you once more.
• 7:21
  [SPEAKER_18]: Good.
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_14]: But how is it that you came to be here, Avenger?
• 7:26
  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, it's not the kind of story I'd want to be remembered by, but here goes.
• 7:31
  [SPEAKER_18]: If you remember, I was honked off when I stalked out of Avenger's mansion.
• 7:35
  [SPEAKER_18]: And I didn't cool down any while.
• 7:37
  [SPEAKER_18]: I fluted Dr. Doom's castle, set in the time machine dials for the 12th century.
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_18]: I tripped the switch in my inimitable style, and vanished.
• 7:44
  [SPEAKER_18]: Never once bothered to think about King.
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Flashback to the Hawkeye on the time platform getting sucked into the time stream, which looks like balls of yarn and fireworks, where he fires an arrow at the future conqueror in the distance in front of him.
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_18]: We've done so much time travel and I was actually figuring to be bored, but wouldn't you know that goofball was waiting for me?
• 8:06
  [SPEAKER_18]: The way he comes and goes, he probably knew I'd be making the trip before I did, anyway.
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_18]: We each did our numbers, and I had worked up arrows for him during the mantis scene.
• 8:16
  [SPEAKER_18]: So I tagged him, throwing us both out of kilter somehow.
• 8:19
  [SPEAKER_18]: We went spit and off toward a crazy glowing hole.
• 8:21
  [SPEAKER_18]: And the next thing I knew, I was standing in the desert, all by my lonesome.
• 8:25
  [SPEAKER_18]: Let me tell you, it was spooky, because I could have been anywhere anytime.
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_18]: It's so I got right to look and for civilization.
• 8:32
  [SPEAKER_18]: And I found it all right, but I didn't believe it.
• 8:34
  [SPEAKER_18]: And while I was still airing out my jaw.
• 8:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm crazy glowing, wholeheart.
• 8:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: In his full purple and blue costume, Hawkeye crests the hill and finds an old west town, one with a futuristic citadel in the middle of it, and some civilians see him.
• 8:49
  [SPEAKER_18]: Look, here's one of a hundred of those men from Mars.
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_18]: Who, me?
• 8:53
  [SPEAKER_18]: You got a wrong old timer?
• 8:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Rather than face the armed civilians, Hawkeye ran for it, stripping down behind some rocks and sneaking into town, soon seeing a name he recognized on the door, Matthew J. Hawke.
• 9:04
  [SPEAKER_18]: But he didn't think so.
• 9:05
  [SPEAKER_18]: I figured later they must have been renegades.
• 9:07
  [SPEAKER_18]: People who escaped the town when the real men from Mars showed up.
• 9:10
  [SPEAKER_18]: Anybody want to guess who he might have been?
• 9:12
  [SPEAKER_18]: I didn't think so.
• 9:13
  [SPEAKER_18]: At any rate, I slipped the private posse and ditched my mask and tunic so I could cruise into town without drawing too much attention.
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_18]: See, the town's name was on half the building.
• 9:23
  [SPEAKER_18]: In my American history taught me who I'd find there.
• 9:25
  [SPEAKER_16]: What have you been to all?
• 9:26
  [SPEAKER_16]: Does that mean all your friends know who I really am?
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_17]: All simmered down too, Gun.
• 9:31
  [SPEAKER_17]: Nobody gives a hang, except in you.
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: I know not.
• 9:34
  [SPEAKER_10]: Nor have I the wish.
• 9:35
  [SPEAKER_10]: A man's secrets be secret to my mind.
• 9:37
  [SPEAKER_10]: With all nine adventures have led us to our foe.
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: Fuck I. I have sworn that this battle shall be the last between him and us.
• 9:43
  [SPEAKER_10]: What does it more does have to say about it?
• 9:44
  [SPEAKER_14]: He says nothing wisely leaving our destinies to ourselves.
• 9:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: Me, I don't savvy half of what you're planning about, but if you're here for King, welcome.
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_17]: That's what two gun renders us up for.
• 9:55
  [SPEAKER_17]: Trouble is we ain't got too far.
• 9:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hanks taking over most of everybody into everyone in tombstone.
• 10:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Made a mislave somehow.
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: If anybody even heard our ponies winny, King would soon know about it, but worse than that, we heard him bellowing to the renegades that he could kill anybody in town just by pushing a button.
• 10:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's incredible.
• 10:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: But what could he want with his realm?
• 10:13
  [SPEAKER_09]: I shall speak, but once, and this knowledge will change nothing, his new is to master plan.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_09]: To conquer the 20th century, he will first conquer the 19th!
• 10:27
  [SPEAKER_18]: That's what I figured.
• 10:28
  [SPEAKER_18]: It makes sense in a perverted sort of way.
• 10:31
  [SPEAKER_18]: And if he does it, we'll all cease to be, but I've got a plan.
• 10:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Anytime Kevin talks, I think it's perverted, so very...
• 10:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Meanwhile, high above the Avengers are imprisoned with an massive lattice of glowing energy back in the present, at least Dr.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Spectrum's power prism.
• 10:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: In the suspended cage, the armored Iron Man, the newlyweds vision in the Scarlet Witch, the shield will be wielding Captain America, the blue furry beast, and the civilian, Patsy Walker wearing bright yellow.
• 10:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: On the ground below them, is Hugh Jones, the president of Rockson Oil, his head of security buzzbackster, who is Pat C's ex-husband, and five members of the Squadron Supreme.
• 11:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hyperion, the Wizard, Lady Lark, Dr.
• 11:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Spectrum, and the Golden Archer.
• 11:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's no use, Cap.
• 11:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I've tried every power this armor has, but I can't break us free.
• 11:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Dr.
• 11:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Spectrum's power for prism formed a cage even stronger than Iron Man.
• 11:26
  [SPEAKER_07]: The squadron supreme was hired to protect my interest for many threat.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_16]: You Avengers should never have tripled with rocks on oil.
• 11:35
  [SPEAKER_16]: The James manifestations are more than merely deficiencies.
• 11:38
  [SPEAKER_16]: even my ethereal form cannot pass through the bars.
• 11:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: I hope you're happy, Patsy Walker, getting caught up in this.
• 11:44
  [SPEAKER_04]: I should never have let you hold me to our old agreement.
• 11:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Don't be silly, Beast.
• 11:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
• 11:50
  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, and how about me sweetheart?
• 11:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're a rap buzz, Baxter.
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're nothing like the man I married.
• 11:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or even the man I divorced.
• 11:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: You've changed.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_07]: But I'm out here, baby, and you're in there.
• 12:02
  [SPEAKER_07]: Do that on your own time, Colonel.
• 12:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: I guess it's a more important notice to worry about.
• 12:07
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like why these heroes from another world are working for me and what they'll do next.
• 12:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Seems like you should wonder what the Avengers will do next, Jones.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: No trap yet has held us forever.
• 12:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: This one will boom.
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's about time you learned which one of us is really the better team.
• 12:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Listen, you big palookas, they'll get out of here, they will.
• 12:27
  [SPEAKER_05]: sure batsy sure thing let's go squadron we're finished here guess he can't scare folks with words these days huh it takes actions just as it always has but i have a plan yes everyone Adam does captain america is Leslie Jordan and it's my new favorite thing i've been
• 12:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: But for now, we are due back in the old West where Hawkeye has a plan for a train-highest.
• 12:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, kind of.
• 12:51
  [SPEAKER_18]: There!
• 12:52
  [SPEAKER_18]: The Percos Train?
• 12:53
  [SPEAKER_18]: You bet.
• 12:54
  [SPEAKER_18]: You were telling me about a uranium-minum makes runs for?
• 12:57
  [SPEAKER_18]: You may not know all of uranium's uses, but old Kang does believe me, he'll want it, especially since there's no thought of guards.
• 13:05
  [SPEAKER_18]: There shall be guards, and just this, too.
• 13:08
  [SPEAKER_14]: A shootout at a train robbery.
• 13:09
  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, this is what I've wished to see of Earth, the heritage of the American woman I might have been.
• 13:14
  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, say Hawk, who are these Rani's really?
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_18]: They're my friends, kid.
• 13:19
  [SPEAKER_18]: Even if they're one of a kind of any age, but listen, Thunder God, here's one thing.
• 13:24
  [SPEAKER_18]: Bye.
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, me and the kids are cool, but one side of you would tip King to what's up.
• 13:30
  [SPEAKER_18]: Does that intend for us to rain in behind?
• 13:32
  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, not exactly.
• 13:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Nightfall.
• 13:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: A warm dry breeze stirs the Joshua trees and the crickets near the river start to sing, but suddenly the Arizona quiet is cut with a clatter and a roar.
• 13:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: The Pecos train is dead on time and so are six men on a butte.
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: While inside the rocking box cars, two more or less typical travelers sit tensely.
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: and on a bluff just ahead, seven very typical border town bandits await the arrival of their prey.
• 14:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: On the train, Thor wears a blue jacket and disguise next to Moon Dragon, who wears a high-green hat and dress with a massive yellow bow tie at her neck.
• 14:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's glorious.
• 14:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: On the ridges nearby the train, our five outlaws and Hawkeye, all watch on horseback, and sure enough, Kang has sent a pack of bandits to rob the train.
• 14:20
  [SPEAKER_13]: Let's take her boys.
• 14:21
  [SPEAKER_13]: She's as rap for milk and has a sour weak strain.
• 14:25
  [SPEAKER_13]: Sorry.
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think that's due to you.
• 14:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know.
• 14:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: As a rap for milk and my god.
• 14:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: That was the worst fucking lines I've ever seen.
• 14:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Rhyme kids like what?
• 14:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: Somebody say rap for milk and...
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_14]: but also who milks a sell.
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_14]: I just want to know.
• 14:41
  [SPEAKER_14]: Can someone explain that to me?
• 14:43
  [SPEAKER_14]: Anyway.
• 14:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Pound and rifles rise as the bandits surge forward.
• 14:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Riders still awaited against the moon racing to meet the speeding train.
• 14:52
  [SPEAKER_18]: There go this flickers we've been waiting for.
• 14:55
  [SPEAKER_18]: Don't see king with them though.
• 14:56
  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, we don't really need him.
• 14:58
  [SPEAKER_18]: We'll give what we want just the same, or my name's not the Hawkeye kid.
• 15:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Living his best old west fantasy, Hawkeye fires a flare arrow into the sky to summon his allies.
• 15:08
  [SPEAKER_16]: The signal, tombed around in action.
• 15:10
  [SPEAKER_16]: But who would have thought that we're not chosen by tying a secret identity?
• 15:14
  [SPEAKER_16]: Such people as the Avengers will follow.
• 15:16
  [SPEAKER_16]: God's, I've met God's.
• 15:18
  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't like that flair boys, grabbed the box and had talent.
• 15:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: The main cold ace, despite his crisp commands, is still not overly worried.
• 15:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: He knows the risks of robbery and sudden frontier justice, but he also knows his cult 45.
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Tau, a bullet passes through the window of the train, startling a passenger within.
• 15:37
  [SPEAKER_10]: are the learnings' efficient leapers this?
• 15:39
  [SPEAKER_14]: Indeed, I am Thor.
• 15:40
  [SPEAKER_14]: This is invigorating.
• 15:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: The locomotive tips dangerously close to too fast to speed for the curves, and the raiders never lose an inch.
• 15:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: As the bandits are climbing aboard the train, into the coal car, where they find raw-hide kid waiting inside, laying back on the coal like he's been there all day.
• 15:57
  [SPEAKER_13]: Get your hands off that throttle engineer.
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_17]: Now, you don't want to talk to the man like that, Ace.
• 16:03
  [SPEAKER_17]: What will we do with all this nice coal?
• 16:05
  [SPEAKER_17]: Huh?
• 16:06
  [SPEAKER_17]: How long has it been your poll cast since Jasper Junction I reckon?
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_17]: Too bad he didn't see me jump in the last pass.
• 16:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And outside, Kidcult, Guns Drawn is on horseback, chasing another bandit who rides on a horse named Sarah Jane.
• 16:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Glory for me, that's kid called to come in.
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: C'mon.
• 16:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's thought he was an owl who just like me.
• 16:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: But he sure don't act like it.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Come on, Sarah Jane.
• 16:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mister, nobody outruns steel or me.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Kid called Leap's office on horse and knocks the band at right office, Sarah Jane.
• 16:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: And as he does, Hawkeye leaps off his own horse to engage in battle with two more bandits on top of the speeding train.
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_18]: Yippee, just like John Wayne, Manhattan was never like this.
• 16:47
  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh-oh, here's where I earn my real name, of just plain Hawkeye, the marksman.
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: A dive of a waiting a shot while firing an arrow at the same time, and one arrow takes a thug down with a perfect precision.
• 16:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Meanwhile, Kid Colt is punching out one of the bandits, leaving him unconscious.
• 17:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: What?
• 17:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: Pow!
• 17:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: Partner, I see what your boss did to the folks in tombstone, and I didn't lack it one bit.
• 17:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: He had a man that had hired his gun to that king, Randy, and even worked the
• 17:16
  [SPEAKER_04]: Shucks.
• 17:17
  [SPEAKER_04]: He ain't listening.
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Another bandit rides away in a panic into a nearby cave where the night rider has set up projectors to make himself look like a ghost.
• 17:26
  [SPEAKER_17]: I think I saw the Ringo kid himself, brother, whatever's got them hellers down on us.
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_17]: It's more I want a mess with.
• 17:33
  [SPEAKER_17]: Look for me, nobody knows, else knows this here cave.
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: Wrong mortal, the son of the spirits knows all.
• 17:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah,
• 17:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, I'm not saying that word.
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the phrase here is engine man, everybody.
• 18:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we're just going to move right past it.
• 18:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's skip that one.
• 18:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, you got my side kicks, but I'm right behind.
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And since I already got my gun pointed at your liver, you're going to pay.
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Go on.
• 18:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you try something fancy?
• 18:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing you can do, huh?
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And say your prayers.
• 18:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Slub, wringo, kid sneaks up behind the band.
• 18:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: It and hits him with a gun butt to the head.
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Club, my mother was an Indian.
• 18:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I shouldn't have struck him from behind, but he used the word to insult you, Hawkeye.
• 18:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Sounds like the fightin' stopped.
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_14]: Bye, corona's.
• 18:29
  [SPEAKER_14]: I've stepped into another world.
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_14]: Captain Marvel gaped at the wonders of Titan.
• 18:33
  [SPEAKER_14]: And now I truly comprehend what he must have felt.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_14]: That Titan is so perfect, so all encompassing.
• 18:39
  [SPEAKER_14]: And this is so real, at last, my association with the Avengers has borne fruit.
• 18:44
  [SPEAKER_16]: Just that long gun-a-lip, shovel-or, he's my core.
• 18:48
  [SPEAKER_16]: Hope, Thunder.
• 18:49
  [SPEAKER_16]: We've explored what this came before, Big Velu.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's take this trial through the top of the past and do a job or a gun-a-ga. Sparks skid from beneath the mighty stallions, hooves as he clears the crest.
• 18:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: The two gun-kid going after the final foe.
• 19:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Lost him.
• 19:03
  [SPEAKER_16]: You're always worth to a quick on the draw, Shavo.
• 19:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maja de Dios.
• 19:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: The Tugan Kid leaps off a high ridge and lands on the other man's horse.
• 19:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: The impact of the leap nearly kills both men on the spot.
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Shavo hits the ground hard already half on conscious.
• 19:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: The kid is winded and sore, but he forces himself to fight on.
• 19:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Driving his lead arms to pummel the band at long after Chavo, who are as slumps completely unconscious in fact.
• 19:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: In time, the kid realizes what he's doing, and all the way back to the railway, he thinks about why, and why he made that leap in the first place.
• 19:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Perhaps it's because, next to the Avengers, he feels so limited.
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_10]: Everything's set.
• 19:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: See, Jesus above Yonder Mesa.
• 19:41
  [SPEAKER_14]: And Arrow, yes, it is time to explode NOW!
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_10]: One day, that must explain how it is doubt should know such things, Moon Dragon, for the moment, however, it is enough to take once more to the heavens.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Another legend of the West has been birthed to this summer's Eve, and the civilians jaws drop in shock, but in the box canyon at Thor's journeys and near mortals are already dealing with cold hard fact.
• 20:06
  [SPEAKER_18]: Listen up hard guys.
• 20:08
  [SPEAKER_18]: One of you's going to tell me what the setup was for delivering your booty to your blue beaked boss.
• 20:13
  [SPEAKER_18]: Don't kid yourself.
• 20:15
  [SPEAKER_18]: You're not.
• 20:15
  [SPEAKER_18]: And here me and a few of the boys are going to begin the assault on Castle King and now for issue 143.
• 20:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: On the cover, a massive green, staley monster has the helpless Scarlet Witch in his very hand as Beast Captain America, Vision and Iron Man rushed to save her Beast yells, Avengers a symbol, and last but this cover is all confused because the monster that's fighting the people in the old west is actually fighting the heroes that are in the present, which is not something that happens in the story at all, but
• 20:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, sometimes we work with the little we got when we're glad to cover.
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: The final battle against the power of Kang, the Avengers, break loose.
• 20:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Stanley presents the mighty Avengers in right between the Eons.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Kid cult hooded eyes glint like desert frost under his stetson shadow.
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: His draw is swift and sure and his gun is as big as a butte.
• 21:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: You pull cat, you got 10 seconds to talk, or I'll blow your innards into the next county.
• 21:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: What's your answer, Ambray?
• 21:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thor and Moon Dragon stand on either side of his kid cult as they pin the leader of the band.
• 21:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's against a cave wall.
• 21:18
  [SPEAKER_13]: I'll talk, I'll talk.
• 21:20
  [SPEAKER_13]: And if they do say me and the boys did a man robin a trade for Kang.
• 21:24
  [SPEAKER_13]: Workin for him seemed like a right smart thing to do.
• 21:27
  [SPEAKER_13]: But he didn't warn us nothing about these other dudes like him.
• 21:31
  [SPEAKER_13]: Or you and Rahat and the rest.
• 21:34
  [SPEAKER_04]: a foul or a moon dragon came from the future ace, just a hog tie your boss and we're working with them for free.
• 21:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: Keep cult fires has gone and shoots east is hot right off, come out another shot and then his pants fall off as well, pick out after the way King turned everybody into tombstone into walk and dead men just so nobody dare attack him, it just seemed to write smart thing to do.
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_10]: Now take cults, we will speak now.
• 22:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: Listen, part, you may be a god and you may not know, but I know how to deal with a let them go, Goldilocks.
• 22:07
  [SPEAKER_18]: So you and Dragon Lady popped in, the kids in me were running this show.
• 22:11
  [SPEAKER_10]: You tell them, Hawkeye.
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: Never the less we will work together now.
• 22:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: As Kidcult said, and we shall work with honor.
• 22:17
  [SPEAKER_16]: There's no need for argument, man.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_16]: I put one morning last year up to Thunder God.
• 22:21
  [SPEAKER_16]: After all, we still have a town to say.
• 22:23
  [SPEAKER_18]: or a world maybe, Tugun, King the Conqueror earned his name.
• 22:28
  [SPEAKER_18]: That's why once Ace here tells us how to get into his citadel, we'll continue our war with Avengers only.
• 22:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, the Avengers put themselves back in western clothes, noon dragon, this time in a purple men suit with an orange cowboy hat, Thor and all red with a fake blonde beard.
• 22:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone gets a horse, and then it's a ride to the citadel.
• 22:46
  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't blame you for worrying about my ill talk, but after all, tombstone is my town, and that means a two-con kid plays this hand through, all right, all right, but never for an instant, forget who we face cowboy.
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes ma'am, wherever you say ma'am.
• 23:00
  [SPEAKER_16]: That's right, cool.
• 23:01
  [SPEAKER_16]: off kid just cause the way he treats me like a green home when up to now I've been the top gun in these places no reason to grow.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_16]: Maybe they love woman plants around I have mega wish a bit in their Avengers time.
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_16]: Maybe they love give it the order.
• 23:13
  [SPEAKER_16]: That's their look out.
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_16]: Lee, I'm just going to keep on trying to believe any of this is really happening to a lawyer-term lawman like me and do I can for them.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they let women plants around half naked with shame tents.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: They don't have to let women do anything too gun.
• 23:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: She can make her decisions all on her own.
• 23:31
  [SPEAKER_14]: even women's rights and women's rights."
• 23:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Down the deserted main street rides the somber for some, their horses scuffling hooves echoing eerily from the shuddered facades they pass.
• 23:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: At the end of the street looms the cause of tombstones silence, even as other eyes pause upon seeing them.
• 23:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: The images crude, but its maker has spent enough time in this air to make it useful,
• 24:00
  [SPEAKER_18]: Better let me and Moon Dragon go first, Tugan.
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_14]: Ace came freely of his password, but Kang may have protective devices.
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, I suddenly feel like he's discovered our deception already.
• 24:10
  [SPEAKER_14]: You what?
• 24:11
  [SPEAKER_14]: Listen, Mayo.
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_14]: Just tell us about that.
• 24:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right, Joe.
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we got it.
• 24:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, we got it.
• 24:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: A cloud of warmth billows out into the crisp night air.
• 24:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: All around the crickets cease their song.
• 24:21
  [SPEAKER_18]: Looks like the dragon lady called a group.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_18]: Here's where we do or die.
• 24:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: On a large view screen in front of the heroes appears the face of king.
• 24:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: He loves a really big view screen, everyone.
• 24:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is displeased.
• 24:33
  [SPEAKER_12]: Welcome Avengers.
• 24:35
  [SPEAKER_12]: Welcome to the last place.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_12]: you'll ever enter on earth, you nearly fooled me, even after I lured you into this era by returning your pure-rial time machine.
• 24:45
  [SPEAKER_12]: I was looking for your entire assemblage.
• 24:47
  [SPEAKER_12]: Nevertheless, I have whom I have, and revenge shall be nonetheless.
• 24:53
  [SPEAKER_08]: There's I come, Safari!
• 24:59
  [SPEAKER_18]: revenge time lord revenge for allowing the course of events to proceed as fate has long since decreed silence i wanted the celestial madana and it was the avengers who tapped her from me for that you must die you blue nose baboon i've heard of fixations before but you take the cake everybody knows you're gonna give up this life in time why give yourself so much to regret
• 25:24
  [SPEAKER_12]: I shall not give up this life archer king the conqueror will hold fast to his identity to the end of his days despite any reports to the contrary.
• 25:34
  [SPEAKER_12]: I regret nothing, least of all your deaths.
• 25:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: And as Mundragon and Hawkeye shed their outer clothing, Hawkeye yells, all right then, Avengers are assemble, and in response Kang nearly pushes a button,
• 25:54
  [SPEAKER_12]: eat me well, Avengers.
• 25:56
  [SPEAKER_12]: Of all the foes you have faced, none can compare to King the Conqueror.
• 26:00
  [SPEAKER_12]: I know all of the subtle secrets of time, from the dawn of antiquity to the twilight of eternity.
• 26:07
  [SPEAKER_12]: I have ruled not nations, but whole continents of men.
• 26:10
  [SPEAKER_12]: I have ground billions beneath my boots, but you have always defied me.
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_12]: No matter who raised your banner, the Avengers,
• 26:18
  [SPEAKER_12]: have forever thwarted my will.
• 26:20
  [SPEAKER_12]: No longer you have held the Celestial Madonna for me, and this time you shall know King's vengeance.
• 26:27
  [SPEAKER_12]: Nothing shall keep me from destroying each and every Avenger who ever lived from your happily spools to Iron Man.
• 26:35
  [SPEAKER_12]: The vision even Thor, your ally shall know no peace for me saved a peace of the grave.
• 26:41
  [SPEAKER_12]: I shall blot you from the face of earth, and then this century, your century, and all of time to come shall march to the sound of a one-drama, pounding out the rhythm of my name, king.
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_12]: This is, this is, that was a lot, that was a lot.
• 26:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now after that fucking monologue, you didn't know you needed.
• 27:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go back to the present.
• 27:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Meanwhile, in a carefully constructed cage, hidden deep within the resources of the brand's corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Roxana oil.
• 27:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: Now here's my plan.
• 27:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: Vision, we're going to need your powers of intangibility.
• 27:17
  [SPEAKER_16]: Look out, I've already attempted to fast through these bars.
• 27:20
  [SPEAKER_16]: They're yelling at energy, not a thousand odd abilities.
• 27:22
  [SPEAKER_16]: I can't even put my hand through the open as you human's can.
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_16]: Right, I understand that, but you can put your hand your whole body through my shield.
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: Sure, and Cap can put the shield right in the energy flow, so you'd actually be reaching through it and not the cage.
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_16]: Out of sight, I see you hover a brain beneath your rough exterior beast.
• 27:42
  [SPEAKER_16]: You'll ruin my social life.
• 27:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're social life.
• 27:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the one whose ex has been helped stick us in her.
• 27:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: You honor your argument beast, but I'm beginning to wish you'd turn me down.
• 27:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: We can worry about that later, Miss Backster.
• 27:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't return to the Avengers to stay cooped up.
• 27:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: Ready, Vision?
• 27:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Cap puts his shield up to the barrier and vision phases his hand through and then Beast and Captain America land of their own accord.
• 28:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think the idea here is the shield disrupts the energy which allows Vision's entire body to disrupt and then they fold the ground.
• 28:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's monkey science, but it works.
• 28:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Beast through, well done.
• 28:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: I told the squadron Supreme not to underestimate us.
• 28:18
  [SPEAKER_14]: incredible.
• 28:19
  [SPEAKER_14]: My man is incredible.
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_14]: He never takes bows, but his powers put everyone else to shame.
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Outside now, the silent android avenger loses his solar eye beams, and the object of his gaze blows the cage wide open leaving the avengers falling.
• 28:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Ironman grabs the hands of Patsy and the Scarlet Witch.
• 28:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Watch your step ladies, you know, Wanda, I could have used your Helpy in my solo battle with Dr.
• 28:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Spectrum.
• 28:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Every day I see more wisdom and having helped found this team.
• 28:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: Not that I am.
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: Spectrum in his house were lost from the start.
• 28:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: You know what they say.
• 28:51
  [SPEAKER_04]: Four walls do not a prison make.
• 28:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: You're really consider this guy for membership, huh?
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: Come on heroes, we have some people to say.
• 28:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so they do, but first, back near the ranch, well, back in the old west near the citadel, the four of heroes have been transported into a huge futuristic room with a silver floor and walls crackling with orange energy.
• 29:10
  [SPEAKER_16]: We all have never seen anything as fast as this.
• 29:14
  [SPEAKER_16]: Neither back easy, this floor is in wood or stone.
• 29:18
  [SPEAKER_16]: And is going.
• 29:19
  [SPEAKER_12]: Now Hawkeye, Moon Dragon, and you others, you must learn that King can accomplish even these primitive ages using only the technology of my time sphere.
• 29:30
  [SPEAKER_12]: I have turned metals yet undiscovered by methods yet undramped into a palace, a palace of pleasure and pain.
• 29:39
  [SPEAKER_18]: Holy jump in Joe!
• 29:41
  [SPEAKER_12]: Within these walls, I have created many wonders, behold, the mix of 41st century science and a coyote.
• 29:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Materializing the room as a giant purple demonic monster with rippling muscles in a forked tail.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Apparently, Kang caught a coyote and then mutated into this fucking thing.
• 30:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's tail lashes out in nox moon dragon unconscious with a flock.
• 30:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Derek, you're going to have to go super low register if we're going to pick it up.
• 30:08
  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if I can do that.
• 30:11
  [SPEAKER_10]: You're joking, I was walking around my house during like this, this made me so, there's the most nervous fire from.
• 30:18
  [SPEAKER_16]: Because I can do it again.
• 30:23
  [SPEAKER_16]: You need it again.
• 30:24
  [SPEAKER_16]: No, you're good.
• 30:25
  [SPEAKER_16]: And it is Jehovah Fett, right?
• 30:26
  [SPEAKER_16]: I said, Jehovah Fett.
• 30:28
  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
• 30:30
  [SPEAKER_16]: Joe's the fat.
• 30:31
  [SPEAKER_16]: The ball woman's down.
• 30:33
  [SPEAKER_16]: And no, I bet I'm either way anything like this to gun.
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, son, you better hope this credit haste land or get ready for the last round up.
• 30:41
  [SPEAKER_18]: The kid doesn't know what he's up against.
• 30:43
  [SPEAKER_18]: And I'm not sure I do.
• 30:44
  [SPEAKER_18]: I just hope no, one more time.
• 30:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: The creature screams as Hawkeye hits him with two exploding arrows a man.
• 30:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, a tail swipe knocks him over didn't stop.
• 31:00
  [SPEAKER_12]: Along with I waited for this each time before they somehow slipped through my fingers, but now, at last.
• 31:07
  [SPEAKER_12]: The Avengers have doomed!
• 31:08
  [SPEAKER_12]: DOOMED!
• 31:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: But what Avenger remained hidden in his beard and cowboy hat, and he snuck right up behind Kang.
• 31:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: He pulls off his beard.
• 31:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: He taps his cane on the floor with a contumped to initiate his transformation into Thor.
• 31:24
  [SPEAKER_12]: The two real Avengers are finished.
• 31:27
  [SPEAKER_12]: The masked cowboy is now moments from his end and the bearded stranger.
• 31:31
  [SPEAKER_12]: Where is the bearded stranger?
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_12]: My scanner doesn't pick him up anywhere white.
• 31:36
  [SPEAKER_12]: There is a hole in the far wall, a deeping hole.
• 31:40
  [SPEAKER_12]: Which one of you is the gating hole?
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_12]: It can only have been made by someone with extraordinary strength to escape.
• 31:48
  [SPEAKER_12]: No, it cannot be.
• 31:50
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, King, what's the mighty Thor?
• 31:53
  [SPEAKER_10]: Had I not altered my stature?
• 31:54
  [SPEAKER_10]: I would have easily pierced my disguise and taken messages more suited for our God.
• 31:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it sounds like Derek's the gating hole.
• 32:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Fine.
• 32:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: He strikes the time traveler's force field with his hammer.
• 32:06
  [SPEAKER_12]: For that, a clever tactic I'll admit, Avenger.
• 32:10
  [SPEAKER_12]: But surely you haven't forgotten my ever present.
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_12]: Force Field.
• 32:14
  [SPEAKER_10]: Me, Marlet.
• 32:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead, not forgotten.
• 32:16
  [SPEAKER_10]: Not at all.
• 32:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Another hammer strike.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Wham, and Kangles flying through the wall in lands with a wimp.
• 32:21
  [SPEAKER_12]: Last him, he can't actually strike my person.
• 32:24
  [SPEAKER_12]: But if he moves by protective field, he moves me.
• 32:27
  [SPEAKER_12]: I am not anchored to the ground.
• 32:29
  [SPEAKER_12]: I've been ousted from my Citadel.
• 32:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: as was meant to be, now meet the open skies down and I, hand again, shall settle and I fade once and for all.
• 32:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: And even as the two berserkers begin to close upon each other, a giant hand closes hard on two-done kids.
• 32:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Matt Hawke is a brave man, always has been, but he's a man of a simpler time, bereft of comics, movies, or the tube, you and I have seen many monsters.
• 32:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Matt Hawke has seen but one.
• 32:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Who are we to judge in 19th century man faced with fear from the 41st suffice it to say that in these final hideous seconds, Matt Hawke panics.
• 33:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: It is an act to alter all the rest of his days.
• 33:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Picked up into the air, two gun-kid fire shots into the creature's head, before he has a full panic attack.
• 33:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: All just as Moon Dragon wakes up.
• 33:15
  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, only my Titan-trained reflexes could have maintained my life, but it's my mind that's needed now.
• 33:22
  [SPEAKER_14]: As I told Thor at the commencement of this venture, it was not a task for mere mortals.
• 33:26
  [SPEAKER_14]: Combatting Kang is solely decided for gods.
• 33:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Moon Dragon takes out the massive creature with a break with one brain blast and it falls over with a blow.
• 33:36
  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, there's no end to what can't come up with.
• 33:39
  [SPEAKER_18]: No wonder he never quits.
• 33:40
  [SPEAKER_18]: Good thing we can say the same.
• 33:41
  [SPEAKER_16]: You okay, Tugan?
• 33:46
  [SPEAKER_18]: You sure you're not used to stuff like this.
• 33:48
  [SPEAKER_16]: I said I'm fine, Mr. Do you understand English?
• 33:51
  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, yes, but a priestess understands far more far more.
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: And even in her private thoughts.
• 33:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Be that as it may, Thor strikes Kang's force field, knocking him to the ground again.
• 34:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Boom, crack, another punch from another foome.
• 34:07
  [SPEAKER_10]: His true gang, that they'll art most unlike all other Avengers we have battle.
• 34:10
  [SPEAKER_10]: We're surely art thou most tyrannical, both toward others and thyself.
• 34:14
  [SPEAKER_10]: Nare does thou recognize an ending?
• 34:16
  [SPEAKER_10]: To thy lust, yet there must be an ending.
• 34:19
  [SPEAKER_12]: by Lova, his power, my protection strains toward unknown limits to conquer the rage of the Thunder God.
• 34:26
  [SPEAKER_12]: It will yet hold, but defense is not the way of King, King the Conqueror, I must strike back over come.
• 34:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thor is hit with a blast to the chest.
• 34:36
  [SPEAKER_12]: Fizzat.
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_12]: Feel the force of my disillusioned bean god lane, feel the force of conquest.
• 34:43
  [SPEAKER_10]: I feel it, and I continue to stand.
• 34:45
  [SPEAKER_12]: This is really gay.
• 34:49
  [SPEAKER_12]: that I'll raise my power level even higher.
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_12]: I'll obliterate this whole hamlet if I must I'll give you more!
• 34:57
  [SPEAKER_12]: More!
• 34:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: But it skitters through Kang now.
• 35:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like a spider up the spine, a fear.
• 35:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Some might say a weakness.
• 35:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: A weakness.
• 35:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: He swore he'd never know.
• 35:07
  [SPEAKER_12]: I'll give you more power.
• 35:08
  [SPEAKER_12]: You'll fall before me blast your eyes.
• 35:11
  [SPEAKER_12]: You could not try them for me.
• 35:12
  [SPEAKER_12]: Not this time.
• 35:14
  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm Kang.
• 35:15
  [SPEAKER_12]: Inv...
• 35:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: Hold man, now just push myself too far.
• 35:19
  [SPEAKER_12]: No, more, can't conqueres, conqueres, more can't can't can't be.
• 35:28
  [SPEAKER_12]: Did he just give himself an orgasm into the time stream?
• 35:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: He just came so hard.
• 35:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Time ruptures around this man and he disappears in a series of concentric circles dissipating in the wind like he's nothing.
• 35:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: A real- I'm melting, melting what a world moment.
• 35:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: And in the sky, the face of the mortice pops out of a red circle glowing with purple, kind of like that baby in the sun from the teletubbies.
• 35:56
  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, good.
• 35:57
  [SPEAKER_10]: He destroyed himself.
• 35:58
  [SPEAKER_10]: But I've learned not else in my mortal life, such as the wave of a warrior.
• 36:03
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's gone!
• 36:04
  [SPEAKER_14]: We're free!
• 36:05
  [SPEAKER_14]: And look, again in the sky, amorous.
• 36:08
  [SPEAKER_09]: This then is fate.
• 36:10
  [SPEAKER_09]: King is gone!
• 36:12
  [SPEAKER_09]: His very atoms split and spread throughout all time never again to be rejoined.
• 36:19
  [SPEAKER_09]: A fitting and an all-the-more so since he himself was its cause.
• 36:25
  [SPEAKER_14]: But you once told the Avengers that you were another manifestation of King.
• 36:28
  [SPEAKER_09]: Here's my words, I shall speak them, but once.
• 36:31
  [SPEAKER_09]: Ramat had suffered after his times with you.
• 36:34
  [SPEAKER_09]: For it came to him that despite his excellent intentions, his quest to undo the wrongs he had wrought as king, had only resulted in the conqueror's strengthening.
• 36:45
  [SPEAKER_09]: Thus,
• 36:46
  [SPEAKER_09]: Pharaoh had aired.
• 36:47
  [SPEAKER_09]: Thus, after returning from my land of limbo to his Egypt, he devoted himself entirely to a further understanding of time to become its final master.
• 36:58
  [SPEAKER_09]: Myself, neither he, nor can a new of this, when they knew you, for remotes was their last identity.
• 37:06
  [SPEAKER_09]: But since that day, I took this name, I have worked so
• 37:11
  [SPEAKER_09]: Sadly, but unceasingly, to bring about an ending to this menace we unleashed.
• 37:19
  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, Kang, no longer exists, and Ramotat shall never come into being.
• 37:25
  [SPEAKER_08]: Neither too shall he mortise have been the circle is broken, we are free!
• 37:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Liar cuz they're back in like 10 days from the world now tombstone Arizona 1873 today and forever There is one less god and mood dragon weeps next the claws of the hell cat
• 37:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Finally, fancy walkers gonna be the hell cat.
• 37:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's about fucking time.
• 37:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, not a lot of beasts in this one Not a lot of Avengers content, but good lord is this rob against the time lord in the old west A really fucking good time so fun to hear everybody's accents.
• 38:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to hear your thoughts on some characters and on some key moments as we just kind of go down the list
• 38:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, the Immortus King, Rama-Tut, Scarlet-Sunturian, Iron, Lad, Craziness can really mess with your head in less you jump around.
• 38:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, unless you be critical, however, if you can tell me the difference between cable strife and x-man, then we have the same nonsense over in the open.
• 38:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: per over in the exome that I mean.
• 38:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me open with Kevin Canary as Emeritus and then demand a martini as the incredible Kang the Conqueror.
• 38:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: What are your thoughts on these big concept high concept villains?
• 38:39
  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't see what the problem is Chad.
• 38:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: They clearly just clean it all up here and they all disappear and it never happened, right?
• 38:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sure that's the last we will hear of any of these characters.
• 38:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Followers of the Patriot.
• 38:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're hearing Kevin and I talk every episode about time travel these days, so we have been working hard on understanding this crazy nonsense.
• 38:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know what he's trying to do here.
• 38:58
  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, and don't we find out later the secrets of what he's been doing.
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: You say Avengers forever starts to build into what is because what is he up for?
• 39:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: He's just peering like you said like the baby and tell it to ease in the sky making statements and everything he says is going to say once.
• 39:12
  [SPEAKER_07]: So I guess you better write it down because that's the last you're going to hear from him.
• 39:20
  [SPEAKER_12]: So I remember getting a with most things which I've talked about a few times I got in through trading cards.
• 39:26
  [SPEAKER_12]: It's so I remember getting the king trading card being like this guy looks like a fucking idiot Like I hated his design from the beginning the blue face plate or whatever like whatever that is So I've never been a king fan the only time I ever had any kind of like oh, okay Was when we find out that Kang was iron lad and young Avengers.
• 39:46
  [SPEAKER_12]: I was like oh he's kind of cute like that like he's sweet
• 39:49
  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, but now he can literally just go fuck off.
• 39:53
  [SPEAKER_12]: I very much just like gang.
• 39:55
  [SPEAKER_12]: I gave him the most stupid villain voice that I can do because he's the worst.
• 40:01
  [SPEAKER_12]: And, um, yeah, unfortunately he will continue to come back and always be like the, uh, like villain version of a day of death's mocking out where he just comes back.
• 40:12
  [SPEAKER_12]: He's like, we should, it'll be king.
• 40:14
  [SPEAKER_12]: We know we wrote ourselves into a problem.
• 40:16
  [SPEAKER_12]: It's just going to be king now.
• 40:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me pause you.
• 40:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: There was a legit just a massive earthquake here while you were talking just now like it just stopped But that went out for like 20 full seconds if you saw my mouth dropped that's why holy shit That was crazy.
• 40:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've only been through two earthquakes in my life.
• 40:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: That was nuts.
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, yeah, I'm fine.
• 40:38
  [SPEAKER_19]: We're still going without I think we're fine.
• 40:41
  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, that we had the whole building.
• 40:42
  [SPEAKER_19]: We're shaking.
• 40:43
  [SPEAKER_19]: That was crazy Well
• 40:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: can moving into the time stream.
• 40:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Holy shit.
• 40:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that was not.
• 40:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so time travel stuff goes nuts.
• 40:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Marvel.
• 40:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously has a ton of old West stuff.
• 41:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's an entire line of Marvel books from the 1950s for those of you that may have heard the Lord of the Jungle Girl episode where we review it.
• 41:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: 50s book about a white lady in the jungle.
• 41:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: At the end of this month, we're doing the trial of the raw-eyed kid, but there were also multiple cowboy books all over Marvel in these ages, and Marvel loves to bring them back in celebratory spaces.
• 41:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: So watch watching Hawkeye just have the best
• 41:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: time, like fighting alongside these old heroes.
• 41:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've read a shit ton of like old 50s cowboy books now, and good lord do I not need to read another anytime soon.
• 41:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: But listen for the, uh, raw-head kid trial, and over on the Patreon, we're going to be doing an episode on the Apache kid.
• 41:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Lots of crazy tropes, lots of crazy characters, but a ton of fun when we see them here.
• 41:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: One of the most interesting ones, and we're going to talk about each of the cowboys.
• 41:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's an old non-marval property called a ghost writer,
• 41:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, if you guys know that old song like ghost writers in this guy, right, like there's a character that has a hero where he, he's a white guy that gets taken in by some native Americans who give him some like cosmic star dust from one of their gods and he like covers his clothes and it and allows him to like shimmer white and like fight supervillains Marvel later lost the rights to that they launched a
• 42:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: different Ghost Rider title, they relaunched this character later as the Phantom Rider, but for a long time they called him the Knight Rider, which is very unfortunate because the Knight Rider is what they used to call the man on horseback who were part of the Ku Klux clan.
• 42:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we have a lot of crazy history woven into the 1950s stuff.
• 42:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're just going to let it all be there.
• 42:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of craziness.
• 42:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Go listen to those other episodes for more context.
• 42:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: But let's go to the list and talk about what we enjoyed about our different cowboy characters.
• 42:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: got to start us with the raw-eyed kid who I know is one of your all-time favorites.
• 42:52
  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, he's actually pretty restrained in this appearance.
• 42:57
  [SPEAKER_17]: I always like jokingly but not jokingly say this was like the most murderous twink in the old west because he has like he is shooting people, he is riding all over the southwest and he's actually really restrained and you know
• 43:18
  [SPEAKER_17]: I've been a fan of a lot of these Western characters for a long time.
• 43:21
  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, I've got my my Marvel Legends Phantom Rider right here and it's this was a delight.
• 43:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so glad you're here.
• 43:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go to Taylor is King Colt.
• 43:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: I honestly don't know a ton about the the Western era of Marvel.
• 43:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think through this show actually I've been introduced to the Rawhide kid and it's kind of
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's one of those characters that's on my list to learn more about and maybe that's just the way that Scott describes him, but he seems like a good hoop And the Adam Kusori is the Knight Rider.
• 43:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, um, I Well, it was fun because I just brought back my what is a Thor voice and that Thor as Zeus voice
• 43:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: from the one of the other recordings.
• 43:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: But I have no concept that I was like, what's going on in this comic?
• 44:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: I had no concept of like the Western Marvel universe existed.
• 44:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: Except for, I guess it was like Marvel 1000.
• 44:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like there was a whole story about the mass writer, like a couple of years ago.
• 44:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: I know we covered it on our podcast.
• 44:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I was just like, I was laughing so much because I was like, oh, that's where this all comes from.
• 44:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: The Knight Rider cracks me up because he has to like go into the battle beforehand and like put up his projectors so that he can make the villain see him like projected against a cave wall and then they're like, oh no, his head came off and then they run away and, you know, crashing to tree branches.
• 44:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I played the Ringo kid who does have an indigenous parent so that a lot of people will use that as part of his ongoing commentary for the character he's a fine character.
• 44:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then maybe the most famous is the two gun kit who comes to the present for a long time in Marvel's history, joins the Avengers for a while.
• 44:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Dominic, buddy, it was so fun to see you having such a good time with your Southern accent today.
• 44:54
  [SPEAKER_16]: I know what I saw that a kid was a cowboy, I said, okay, I can use like my normal accent, but then kind of just exaggerate it even more.
• 45:06
  [SPEAKER_16]: So that was slick kinda easy to do.
• 45:08
  [SPEAKER_16]: So not too much, I had to think on my part more.
• 45:12
  [SPEAKER_16]: I actually loved it.
• 45:14
  [SPEAKER_16]: I love doing it.
• 45:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Then let's hear from Hawkeye and then Moon Dragon, the two characters that are having the time of their life at the old west.
• 45:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think these characters are going through?
• 45:22
  [SPEAKER_18]: Sure.
• 45:22
  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, Hawkeye, you know, he is, you know, the guy with the bow amongst their godly characters and the Avengers, you know, he's, I feel like he probably felt really emboldened and powerful going back to the west where he was, you know, whatever, like everybody else and like the gunslingers.
• 45:38
  [SPEAKER_18]: So I think Hawkeye was having a great time back in the past.
• 45:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: The Hawkeye kid, he's referencing John Wayne as he runs around.
• 45:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's having so much fun.
• 45:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then, well, I mean, yeah, I mean, I'm wondering, she's very focused on like, ooh, I can see how the women of the eights in hundreds lived.
• 45:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is exciting.
• 45:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: She puts all these costumes on.
• 45:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's having so much fun.
• 45:57
  [SPEAKER_14]: I think she is having the time of her life.
• 45:59
  [SPEAKER_14]: And I think given given a little bit more opportunity, I think that she could lead a couple of those cowboys on just a little bit.
• 46:06
  [SPEAKER_14]: Once they got used to a bald-headed woman.
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: If everyone starts calling her like a dragon lady in this, which is not my favorite, that moment with a moon dragon on raw head kid's saddle though is maybe my favorite in the comic today.
• 46:18
  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm not letting no bald lady ride behind me.
• 46:22
  [SPEAKER_17]: It is a four minute experience for a twink to be put in this place by an older lesbian, and this was an important learning experience for the character.
• 46:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: We also get Derek Nichols-Guer as the guy at the end is Thor playing dress up at the old west.
• 46:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Talk to us about your character JD today.
• 46:42
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I feel like with Thor, I mean, he was alive for the whole vest, so he's kind of like over being there.
• 46:50
  [SPEAKER_10]: rectified so he let them all like play their games the Cowboys, but he was he's kind of over it.
• 46:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a it's fun watching him just like walked up behind Kang like with his fake beard.
• 47:01
  [SPEAKER_12]: It makes me laugh, I'm sorry, what bit weird like beard maker is there in the small town in 1873 to get any sort of like good beard is that he could put on it is that is, wow, it's almost as bad as the lace front that the kid that the kid's done in stranger things.
• 47:23
  [SPEAKER_12]: That's no, that's not true, that's not real.
• 47:25
  [SPEAKER_07]: like the morticians.
• 47:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: They're putting it on the dead bodies after they get shot.
• 47:29
  [SPEAKER_07]: They're putting beer.
• 47:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: I like that the two gunhead kid just has like like a box of costumes in his house and, you know, like he and Hawkeye have been a role-playing a little bit.
• 47:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, do you have any comments on the old West section shout outs?
• 47:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'd like to give each other a fun moment.
• 47:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why?
• 47:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why is Hawkeye shirtless?
• 47:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody else is sure.
• 47:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: I was the most insane thing of like the blended blended by taking off all my clothes
• 47:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And right, Hawkeye knows he's an amazing shape, but he is not struggling to show it off.
• 47:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: This man would have an only fans working not in a national superhero team.
• 48:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: And with that, I was just, I root that your mood dragon is like a vision.
• 48:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think it's like so perfectly fit for that character.
• 48:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: I love it.
• 48:10
  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you.
• 48:11
  [SPEAKER_14]: I very luckily actually listened to one of your podcasts with their century on it today, because I'm always trying to imitate her mood dragon, because she was the original.
• 48:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: There were so many gaiting holes.
• 48:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do we have any other callouts on the old West part?
• 48:27
  [SPEAKER_10]: I loved watching Adam's face when he was ace.
• 48:29
  [SPEAKER_10]: Like speaking with that accent, like, but just so when you're watching you is, that's how I go.
• 48:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Watching two gun like shoot somebody's pants off like so that was yeah Let's just moments it in this then we jump back to the present where our larger storyline with the brand corporation and the squadron supreme in Patsy Walker and buzz Backstreet all these characters are running around they got a little less airtime But that kicks into hyper drive in our next reading
• 48:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like when Iron Man is flomixed and he basically is the entire time.
• 49:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I do like doing Iron Man directly into Hyperion.
• 49:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of a fun acting challenge for me to talk to myself.
• 49:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love being Tatsu Walker.
• 49:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for letting me do this.
• 49:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the highlight of my life.
• 49:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: That interchange between Patsy and Buzz is so much fun.
• 49:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Shether, do you want to talk about being buzzed backster?
• 49:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you know this character at all.
• 49:26
  [SPEAKER_18]: He goes like, I don't know.
• 49:27
  [SPEAKER_18]: I just play them like a dude.
• 49:28
  [SPEAKER_18]: That's such a thing.
• 49:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: With the time to become a, he wants for then so much on Patsy that he allows himself to be turned into a character named the Mad Dog.
• 49:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's like a dog hybrid human.
• 49:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Really, truly wild.
• 49:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, she's, she's hell cat.
• 49:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Elcat and mad dog.
• 49:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he's a dog.
• 49:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yep.
• 49:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Eric Wolf literally.
• 49:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
• 49:48
  [SPEAKER_12]: True.
• 49:48
  [SPEAKER_12]: The better the best part of that.
• 49:50
  [SPEAKER_12]: Exchange was just watching Taylor.
• 49:51
  [SPEAKER_12]: It's been like, yep.
• 49:52
  [SPEAKER_12]: No idea.
• 49:57
  [SPEAKER_12]: So I will say even without knowing him, the buzzbackster was great.
• 50:01
  [SPEAKER_12]: I definitely got like, oh, this guy's just an angry ex-husband, got it.
• 50:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I don't know how intentional it was, but over the last few issues, I feel like Beast has really kind of gone back and forth between being very verbose and very intelligent and then kind of just being like a dude, right, like just being a dude growing.
• 50:18
  [SPEAKER_04]: So for him to have the line in 143 of, you know,
• 50:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: ruin my social life.
• 50:23
  [SPEAKER_04]: Don't let them know that I'm smart.
• 50:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like it'll intimidate the ladies or whatever, which is kind of bizarre and bonkers should be.
• 50:31
  [SPEAKER_04]: But I appreciate that there is some sort of explainer for how his like word choice has really changed over the last few issues.
• 50:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love when he gets really smart humor.
• 50:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like the like the like the 90s cartoon beast where he says things like fourth four sides does not a prism make like I love smart beast where he makes me think that's
• 50:48
  [SPEAKER_16]: How about a vision?
• 50:50
  [SPEAKER_16]: I love that he kind of called out a beast for having a brain.
• 50:55
  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know, as a clever wife or a vision that he used for him, you know, being an enjoy and all that stuff.
• 51:02
  [SPEAKER_16]: But even though with a little that vision had this issue, I thought he still played a pretty cool role in this.
• 51:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Vision also I think visions that guy that's like very funny, but he's not going to be the first to speak up you got to listen and then he's really dry with like makes you laugh harder than anything else.
• 51:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's he's that guy and start with just so in love.
• 51:24
  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, not not much to do this time just just look helpless and talk go to about my man.
• 51:29
  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm so proud of my husband.
• 51:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then we have to add them back.
• 51:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Adam got to do Captain America as Leslie Jordan over in the Captain Britain read.
• 51:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to Adam as Captain Weight for more.
• 51:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for having me.
• 51:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I really, I mean, he had a plan.
• 51:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: And he executed it so good on him as a jury to do it, but he's also kind of a dick, which I was surprised at it.
• 51:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: He was like, why do you want this, like, beast on the team?
• 51:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: That seems like very extreme to me.
• 51:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: But I'm also not aware of what his team joining status is like right now.
• 52:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: So this story is going to result in huge ohms of rocks on dawning the serpent crown and the Avengers going over to the squadron Supreme's homeworld like there's a lot of crazy shit to come this story builds for a little bit before it comes down But next month we get to see Patsy is held cat for the first time she finds a box with a suit in it and is like let me try it out I look amazing
• 52:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's an Instagram account where there's like a girl for those of you that have seen it.
• 52:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know her name.
• 52:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's like, you can me, I'm in the 1930s and I'm wearing pants.
• 52:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Look at me, look at my pants, so so fancy.
• 52:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I picture Patsy like in her Hellcat costume.
• 52:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's thanks to her release.
• 52:41
  [SPEAKER_12]: First off, I love that account.
• 52:43
  [SPEAKER_12]: I love those videos.
• 52:45
  [SPEAKER_12]: And I will forever and always love Allison as Patsy Walker.
• 52:49
  [SPEAKER_12]: She, she, she, she, she, she, she like, I've got sass and spunk.
• 52:53
  [SPEAKER_12]: I love it.
• 52:54
  [SPEAKER_12]: It's so great.
• 52:55
  [SPEAKER_12]: Thank you.
• 52:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: I adore this group.
• 52:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: These scripts are super fun.
• 53:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love when writers just get to play in the the toy box and like use all the toys and make it delicious time travel the old west and we've got the squadron set up the sinister waiting in the wings.
• 53:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, we're going to be talking a lot about the old West.
• 53:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's going to be an interview immediately following this.
• 53:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: The content this month is all X-Men in the old West stories on the main show.
• 53:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then over on the Patreon, we've got old West themed characters, including characters like Outlaw and Calico.
• 53:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to have a lot of fun over on that channel too.
• 53:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Putting this show together just for mains and esteemed joy.
• 53:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Stay tuned after for the interview following and then watch a follow my show at grandma can underscore land on Instagram most readily.
• 53:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm hosting regular content and updates there.
• 53:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so I'm Taylor Russell.
• 53:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: If you want to find me online, it's Taylor at Taylor underscore the bookstaboy on Instagram.
• 53:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: It's pretty much the only place I'm at talking comic books, current events, and he had rivalry.
• 53:59
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, nothing else to plug at this time.
• 54:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: Really great to see
• 54:02
  [SPEAKER_16]: All right, so for me, you can guys can follow me on Twitter at B. Jamil M. You can follow me on Instagram, Dominic Jamil M, Twitch, Dom Nino on underscore and TikTok DJ military 44 and nothing so much coming up, but celebrated my 30th birthday a couple weeks ago, so there's that.
• 54:27
  [SPEAKER_17]: Happy birthday.
• 54:29
  [SPEAKER_17]: Scott, Scott, free.
• 54:30
  [SPEAKER_17]: I am frequent guests on grandma walk and land.
• 54:34
  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm on the trial of rural high kid.
• 54:36
  [SPEAKER_17]: You can find me on most media, Scott, free.
• 54:40
  [SPEAKER_17]: My own podcast, a clone conspiracy, where I talk about Ben Riley and try to explain what the fuck was going on if you just travel.
• 54:49
  [SPEAKER_17]: If you know, please let me know because I don't know.
• 54:52
  [SPEAKER_14]: Ruth Ann Price, you can find me on Instagram mainly at Head of Dabler.
• 54:56
  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm just sitting over here trying to cope with the fact that I just realized I'm 20 years older than my husband down there.
• 55:02
  [SPEAKER_14]: So, you know, in the meantime, I would like to just give a little shout out to the most underrated character in Avengers 142, which is Sarah Jane the Horse.
• 55:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm Adam Kassari, you can find me on Instagram at atom.coussari and then I also do a podcast about the X-Men on the MCU called Homestopieria, which is five queer guys we just flick around basically, so you can find us at Homestopieria podcast on Instagram.
• 55:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you're ever in DC, the fourth Saturday of every month, I met trade, DJ, a control, electropop, indie music dance party.
• 55:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: Let's put that out there and see what helped.
• 55:38
  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, sure.
• 55:39
  [SPEAKER_18]: Hey, uh, this is Chandler.
• 55:41
  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, I'm a co-founder of the uncanny experience in immersive X-Men fandom event that happens in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
• 55:47
  [SPEAKER_18]: Follow me.
• 55:48
  [SPEAKER_18]: I'll also podcast or though I have not actually recorded my podcast in quite some time because uncanny experiences take it over my life, but you can there's a whole catalog of episodes if you want to go back and listen to X-reads and X-Men experience that I co-host with Chris Riley.
• 56:02
  [SPEAKER_18]: If I'm on Instagram, I'm a never five get that's never the number five get so you don't five get it.
• 56:07
  [SPEAKER_18]: And hopefully when this post in April, I won't still be posting about the white supremacist in our city that are trying to take everything over.
• 56:14
  [SPEAKER_18]: So hopefully they're kicked out and April will be a better time on my social media account.
• 56:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: But thank you for speaking truth.
• 56:21
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, let's hope that.
• 56:25
  [SPEAKER_10]: Taylor.
• 56:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: So yeah, Jack Nichols, you could follow me on Instagram,
• 56:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: planets here.
• 56:33
  [SPEAKER_10]: Derek, it's April, so Earth A's happening soon.
• 56:37
  [SPEAKER_10]: So do you want to, I'm happily recapping plant here?
• 56:41
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm having plant episodes.
• 56:43
  [SPEAKER_10]: And then I'll do a companion piece where it brings it to the modern age.
• 56:46
  [SPEAKER_10]: Not much has changed in the past 30 years, sadly.
• 56:48
  [SPEAKER_10]: But yeah, so follow me then.
• 56:50
  [SPEAKER_12]: Hi, I'm Dwayne de Martinez, you can find me across social media at Dwayne de Martinez.
• 56:55
  [SPEAKER_12]: This is the beginning of April.
• 56:57
  [SPEAKER_12]: So hopefully by this time you all will have enjoyed a couple of episodes of my as a recording yet to be released podcast to drag queens a lesbian and a baby.
• 57:07
  [SPEAKER_12]: where you get an inside look at me and my friends group chat because we are a federal unhinged but uh we so currently we're doing a Zina the Warrior Princess rewatch because we are gearing up to go to Zina Khan which is returning to the East Coast after like 20 years it's going to be a New Jersey in October so we're trying to get in some Zina content and then the big event that I have coming up
• 57:35
  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, this will actually be in May is the return to Portland, Oregon for the homo superior queer dance party in drag show.
• 57:43
  [SPEAKER_12]: This year's theme is going to be X-Men in the year 2000, so we're going to be having a lot of Morrison, some extreme X-Men nonsense, and I will be your hostess Sage, so I'm really excited.
• 57:57
  [SPEAKER_12]: hope to see you all out in Portland and out on the internet.
• 58:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: Tesla analysis Kevin can Iary I'm not really on social anymore because it's a terrible place to be even if I do look through stuff so don't bother trying to find me there.
• 58:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: But I force myself on to many people's podcasts so while I have none of my own you will see me guessed are things like.
• 58:16
  [SPEAKER_07]: Subtextman this season I forced my way on to X-Factor files to talk about Quasar with Darrell on two issues that's coming up soon I'm in the later issues and they're really fun So that's something to check out and I just had talked about Agatha all along with the solving for X guys And then I forced myself on to many script readings here with great walking lane where you'll see me
• 58:37
  [SPEAKER_07]: in the champions to see me in Avengers, see me in the X-Men.
• 58:40
  [SPEAKER_07]: I can't get enough of this, mostly just to listen to all of you people say and do wonderful things.
• 58:46
  [SPEAKER_07]: And then there is a recurring, hopefully, at this point, by April, we're still doing a chat.
• 58:51
  [SPEAKER_07]: You and me talking about Kang and Amortis because we could talk about them for time immorial, I guess.
• 58:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're like writing a whole thesis on time-traumatic, but it's been a really fun time.
• 59:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then over to the module this, everyone, before they talk, we just saw their cats asshole, though.
• 59:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to turn.
• 59:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we're escaped the motivers and an X-Men comics podcast and on April we're doing a big April mix up We're bringing X-Men podcasts.
• 59:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's on to talk about DC books.
• 59:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, and we're gonna have someone Chad Anderson from the Grey Mulk and Lane podcast that's coming on to talk Sophie Campbell super girl.
• 59:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll fuck that guy
• 59:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I love, I love that I'm getting invited to talk super-girls.
• 59:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
• 59:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a journey.
• 59:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love and respect each of you so much being part of this community is crazy.
• 59:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: And holy shit, I just sat through an earthquake, so I need to go process a minute.
• 59:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
• 59:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Can't ejaculate it into the time stream and then the whole city, a palm spring shook.
• 59:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that happened.
• 59:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Alright everybody, thank you so much for the ongoing support.
• 59:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you all back here in a few minutes for the academic interview for this month, and see you back here next week on Great Malkin Lane.
• 59:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey everybody, thank you for sticking around for my interview with the incredible former Marvel editor Mark Brunardo.
• 1:00:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a name I know from so many of the books I was collecting in the 1990s.
• 1:00:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's my first time meeting Mark face to face.
• 1:00:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mark was the editor on many books related to
• 1:00:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Spider-Man and other various and sundry things that were happening in Marvel in the 90s during a period of crazy transition, which we have talked about a little bit on the show.
• 1:00:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mark, welcome to the Graham Hawkins Lane podcast.
• 1:00:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd love to have you share with listeners if you would.
• 1:00:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: A little bit of your origin story as a comics fan and how you got your job at Marvel Comics.
• 1:00:34
  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, Chad good to meet you.
• 1:00:35
  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks for inviting me.
• 1:00:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, my origin story.
• 1:00:38
  [SPEAKER_11]: Wow.
• 1:00:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: I've been into comics for pretty much as long as I can remember.
• 1:00:42
  [SPEAKER_11]: It started probably when I was a young kid and my dad when I was growing up in western Pennsylvania.
• 1:00:49
  [SPEAKER_11]: My dad came home from his job at the still mill.
• 1:00:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: And he would bring, uh, he would stop off the new standard, bring us some comics and it was mostly mostly marble comics.
• 1:00:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, I
• 1:00:59
  [SPEAKER_11]: I remember the first one I ever brought me was some planet of the apes comic.
• 1:01:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: I don'ts have it anymore.
• 1:01:04
  [SPEAKER_11]: I couldn't tell you who worked on it, probably Doug Munch wrote it for some reason.
• 1:01:08
  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm thinking that, but that was the first.
• 1:01:10
  [SPEAKER_11]: And then it went on to other things.
• 1:01:12
  [SPEAKER_11]: Next week, it was fantastic four.
• 1:01:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: One week, it was the incredible Hulk and a few DCs mixed in there.
• 1:01:18
  [SPEAKER_11]: But I got into those and then what I really got into was the
• 1:01:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, it regarded as a laughably terrible animated Marvel cartoons from the 1960s that were on in syndication where I was growing up.
• 1:01:33
  [SPEAKER_11]: And that is where I really discovered Lee and Kirby and characters like Thor and Iron Man and the Submariner.
• 1:01:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: It really kind of
• 1:01:42
  [SPEAKER_11]: Despite the really minute animation, the stories were so solid, and so, and it was just such an interesting world that reeled me in.
• 1:01:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: I kind of knew from that point that I was really going to get into comics, and at one point, even, you know, it was clear that I was going to shoot for it as a career.
• 1:01:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: Went to college for a major call communication graphics where a lot of us ended up in advertising.
• 1:02:05
  [SPEAKER_11]: That was kind of the career track that came out of that major for most people.
• 1:02:08
  [SPEAKER_11]: But I knew I wanted to be in comics, whether that was drawing, writing, editing, hopefully all of it.
• 1:02:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: Editing was the way that you kind of got in as an intern.
• 1:02:18
  [SPEAKER_11]: I interned at Marvel Comics in 1991 for an editor named Rob Tokar, who's okay.
• 1:02:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: No longer.
• 1:02:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: was long gone from Marvel, but a really great guy who taught me a lot.
• 1:02:30
  [SPEAKER_11]: Within a year, I had a brief stopover at a company called Innovation that you may or may not remember.
• 1:02:38
  [SPEAKER_11]: They put out the vampire list at comics.
• 1:02:40
  [SPEAKER_11]: I had a move to West Virginia for that for a while, but long story short, within a year I was back at Marvel as an editorial assistant grew that into the
• 1:02:49
  [SPEAKER_11]: or made my way to the Spider-Man office after about a year of doing that and then went to the position work that I last held, which wasn't associated with my own little stable of books.
• 1:02:59
  [SPEAKER_11]: And what year did you leave?
• 1:03:01
  [SPEAKER_11]: That would have been October 1998.
• 1:03:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and do you recall the nature of your leaving?
• 1:03:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: So this is right around like the heroes were born stuff and like the reshuffling while the properties, just a couple years before the bankruptcy, right?
• 1:03:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, it was during the bankruptcy.
• 1:03:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, there was a lot of stuff.
• 1:03:16
  [SPEAKER_11]: I remember very well.
• 1:03:17
  [SPEAKER_11]: I remember very well because myself and a bunch of my friends an entire level of editorial was basically downsized.
• 1:03:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: During it was one of the, it was the third of at least three colleagues during the bankruptcy era.
• 1:03:31
  [SPEAKER_11]: I think the bankruptcy era actually started around 1996.
• 1:03:33
  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, they lasted through two years of that.
• 1:03:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: So yeah, it was, um, it was a good run.
• 1:03:40
  [SPEAKER_11]: A shorter run than I was hoping.
• 1:03:43
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I, I, I, I really took a different career path after that.
• 1:03:46
  [SPEAKER_11]: I ended up going, well, I, I freelanced in comics for a year after that.
• 1:03:51
  [SPEAKER_11]: And when that kind of started getting a little bit too dicey as a career.
• 1:03:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: I moved into the magazine business.
• 1:03:57
  [SPEAKER_11]: The men's magazine business, if you always wanted to be in.
• 1:03:59
  [SPEAKER_11]: First off was a magazine called Smoke, which was kind of a cigar machine auto type lifestyle magazine, and then a magazine called Watchtime, which was for watch collectors, which is really kind of which is the the career path that ended up being the one that has had the most staying power.
• 1:04:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: excellent excellent okay let's go back to you as a kid watching Marvel cartoons for just a minute did you also watch country western stuff did you watch syndicated bananza and gun smoke and things like that growing up well i mean it was really made my dad watched a lot of that stuff i remember being on tv uh yeah a gun smoke bananza John Wayne anything yeah i grew to appreciate John Wayne later on in life actually
• 1:04:44
  [SPEAKER_11]: Clint Eastwood movies, as a kid, it was barely just absorbed through adults around me.
• 1:04:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: I did watch a little ranger as a child.
• 1:04:54
  [SPEAKER_11]: I had no idea how old those were.
• 1:04:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: They were new to me on syndication.
• 1:04:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: I guess that was one of my earliest heroic fiction things that I was into, probably even before comics was the lone ranger and Tonto having their adventures and maybe some of that stuck with me.
• 1:05:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 1:05:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to focus on a series that Mark edited called Blaze of Glory from the late 1990s.
• 1:05:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm guessing it's probably one of the last titles you worked on before the layoffs or that next round of layoffs.
• 1:05:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm going to ask you before we get to that.
• 1:05:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to ask you just kind of a smattering of questions from your career.
• 1:05:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And whatever shows up in these answers, you can pass if you want to go on tangent or tell stories.
• 1:05:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's all completely okay as well.
• 1:05:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Mark is credited as editing a bunch of books.
• 1:05:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: You also were a writer on a lot of books.
• 1:05:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I know that means working on a lot of different teams.
• 1:05:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And working on teams as layoffs are happening is not a pleasant or easy thing for any company at any time.
• 1:05:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm sure there's some complicated memories from that time.
• 1:05:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: But let me begin with my first question.
• 1:05:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mark Bernardo does a Spider-Man like Peter Pan, peanut butter.
• 1:05:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Bravo.
• 1:06:00
  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, yes.
• 1:06:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: I was a go-to guy for Glenn Hurdling, who is the editor of the Custom Comics, which let's become a pretty good buddy on the show.
• 1:06:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: I agree with a lot.
• 1:06:12
  [SPEAKER_11]: So I assume that your audience, maybe at this point, just familiar with what custom comics are, what they're for, done in cooperation with companies, believe it or not, the Peter Pan Spider-Man stories were some of the most challenging things that I have ever had to write.
• 1:06:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: And I don't know if you've
• 1:06:29
  [SPEAKER_11]: because they literally, for anyone not familiar with them, you apparently are, they literally were tiny comics, they were round, they were cut to a round shape to fit on the inside of a Peter Pan peanut butter lid.
• 1:06:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And for a lot of my listeners, they're like, uh, collect action figures, picture like those toys you'd get in the 90s where there'd be like a little tinny, like teeny, like spider manner X-Men comic in the back.
• 1:06:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is that except inside a peanut butter lid, it's crazy.
• 1:06:57
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, so they had to be, the stories had to be really, really, so they had to fit in.
• 1:07:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: I think it was 16 pages, I don't remember.
• 1:07:05
  [SPEAKER_11]: But basically, you get like one or two panels per page, and it was tiny, so you couldn't have much dial.
• 1:07:10
  [SPEAKER_11]: So it was four different spider-man stories versus
• 1:07:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: four different villains.
• 1:07:15
  [SPEAKER_11]: The only marching orders, they weren't really strict, but they were marching orders was that somehow Peter Pan Peanut Butter had to play in.
• 1:07:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's hard enough getting like a tiny little story like this, but somehow you have to have Peter Pan Peanut Butter appear naturally in the narrative.
• 1:07:30
  [SPEAKER_11]: I'll be, I mean, it's like, it's like the hostess
• 1:07:35
  [SPEAKER_11]: You said I could go off here because I to this day I think that I mean I've written like you said I don't know if I say a lot of spider-man stories I've edited a lot more than I've written But but I have written a bit of spider-man stories and I to this day I still say that the little plot twist I came up with for this one of these Peter Pan comics was one of the clever spider-man bits that I've done
• 1:07:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: It was, in fact, Spider-Man coming home with a web with a shopping bag, web to his back for Aunt May.
• 1:08:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: Of course, the peanut butter was in the shopping bag and prominent and and Spider-Man had to interrupt his voyage home with the groceries to fight.
• 1:08:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: I believe it was Taskmaster.
• 1:08:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's like, that is such a Spider-Man thing to do.
• 1:08:16
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's like,
• 1:08:17
  [SPEAKER_11]: the dilemma.
• 1:08:18
  [SPEAKER_11]: I need to get these groceries to Aunt May, but I need to fight this villain and I need to keep this pack on my back and not ruin the groceries.
• 1:08:25
  [SPEAKER_11]: And it was it was very silly.
• 1:08:27
  [SPEAKER_11]: I thought but very spider-man.
• 1:08:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Literally advertisement placing as a as a key property of the book.
• 1:08:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: You also got to write the vulture when he was in his like young snatched era.
• 1:08:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's like 20-year-old like young vulture draining life from people to stay young.
• 1:08:43
  [SPEAKER_11]: Was that in the Peter pants?
• 1:08:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, young, he was the young bulger.
• 1:08:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't, he wasn't vampire bulger, but that was an error for this character.
• 1:08:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:08:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, another, and I picked this up off the shelf when I was a comics fan in the 90s.
• 1:08:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Tell everybody about the short lived Marvel Vision magazine.
• 1:09:00
  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, Marvel, the guy who would be able to tell you more about this would be Tim Tui, who was the editor of that magazine.
• 1:09:06
  [SPEAKER_11]: But, um, it was basically, as I recall it, I was a contributor, I was a regular writer
• 1:09:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, it was essentially Marvel's in-house attempt to compete with wizard.
• 1:09:17
  [SPEAKER_11]: We saw business being loved.
• 1:09:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: We saw that wizard at the time was this huge thing.
• 1:09:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: It was the B voice of the colorful industry.
• 1:09:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then again, for modern, for modern collectors, picture that like previews catalog, that's always at the front of the desk where you can look through what's coming out next.
• 1:09:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, wizard was huge in the 90s.
• 1:09:35
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, and so this was us trying to steal some some of that like magazine business away from wizard and I I'm not a I'm not All sure I couldn't tell you the numbers, but I think it lasted I think it went on for a few years And I actually after I was on staff and I was a freelance or I continued contributing to that It was a real I mean we tried to do a real journalism there
• 1:09:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: we did interviews and, again, Q&A's and kind of dug into dug into these subjects.
• 1:10:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, as much as we could, it's kind of like, it was kind of like the walking dead putting on its own post-show where they're going to talk about the walking dead.
• 1:10:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: You know that I'm going to say anything bad about it, but it was a similar thing with Marvel Vision.
• 1:10:17
  [SPEAKER_11]: We're not going to get really into any kind of controversy, but we are going to let you know what Marvel is up to that one.
• 1:10:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, the comic that you personally appeared in most prominently, because a lot of writers end up having templates in the Marvel Universe of themselves in a comic book.
• 1:10:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: How many ways are there to end a clone saga, Mark Bernardo?
• 1:10:37
  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, there was supposed to be a hundred one.
• 1:10:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not sure if there were that many actually in that story.
• 1:10:42
  [SPEAKER_11]: And yes, there are a few writers get to actually create their own doppelgangers in the Marley universe.
• 1:10:47
  [SPEAKER_11]: But that was an assignment that I was handed.
• 1:10:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: There is a bit of a story behind that.
• 1:10:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: I would love to hear the story.
• 1:10:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: The Klonsaga being the Spider-Man story that would just never end.
• 1:10:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know my friends got free loves this era of Spider-Man.
• 1:10:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: This book almost feels gimmicky because we're just playing into the joke that it will never end.
• 1:11:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: It just keeps going and going.
• 1:11:04
  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, it was.
• 1:11:05
  [SPEAKER_11]: And I want to see surprise by the amount of in jokey stuff that they actually let me get away with in that book.
• 1:11:10
  [SPEAKER_11]: But yeah, at the time to set the stage, the clone saga was finally set for its ending.
• 1:11:17
  [SPEAKER_11]: Bob Harris came aboard his editor in chief said, we need to end this and we're going to spoil alert for anybody who hasn't read it.
• 1:11:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: We're going to bring back Norman Osborn as the mastermind behind all of it.
• 1:11:27
  [SPEAKER_11]: So we knew all of this was happening.
• 1:11:28
  [SPEAKER_11]: Between the editorial department and the sales department, despite all of the hate that this storyline got in years to come and at the time, it was making, it was a success commercially.
• 1:11:42
  [SPEAKER_11]: The sales department was a little bit like, wow, we need to, this is ending.
• 1:11:47
  [SPEAKER_11]: We don't know what's next.
• 1:11:47
  [SPEAKER_11]: We need to somehow still get some mileage out of this.
• 1:11:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: So let's pump out some extra books at the end.
• 1:11:53
  [SPEAKER_11]: One of them was the Osborne Journal, which my friend Glenn Greenberg did, and I actually did the coloring on that.
• 1:11:59
  [SPEAKER_11]: The other was this thing was thrown out in a meeting by some marketing guy, I believe, said, oh, let's call it 101 uses for a dead clone.
• 1:12:07
  [SPEAKER_11]: Everybody thought it was funny, and they said, okay, more you can, you can write, you've been here.
• 1:12:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: I was, in fact, comic book trivia, known by few, is I believe I was the one editorial staff or that was there for the beginning and the end of the clone saga in the Spider-Man office.
• 1:12:22
  [SPEAKER_11]: I think no one else that was there at the beginning stayed until the end.
• 1:12:25
  [SPEAKER_11]: So I was tapped to write this thing, and it did not want to do 101 uses for a dead clone.
• 1:12:29
  [SPEAKER_11]: because we were doing this really tragic, emotional ending for Ben Riley.
• 1:12:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: And we wanted people Ben Riley being the clone of his player man.
• 1:12:39
  [SPEAKER_11]: And we really wanted this to resonate.
• 1:12:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: We wanted people to care about it.
• 1:12:43
  [SPEAKER_11]: So it's like, let's not trivialize it by doing this.
• 1:12:46
  [SPEAKER_11]: At the same token, we need to make this acknowledge what you're saying.
• 1:12:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: The endlessness of the saga, the ridiculousness of some of the extra
• 1:12:54
  [SPEAKER_11]: So let's, I've said, why don't we make it 101 ways to end the clone saga and kind of base it in reality as probably others have reported basically everything pretty much every unused ending to the clone saga that was in that book actually was a real idea and actually existed in a memo from somebody.
• 1:13:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: that was the starting.
• 1:13:15
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's like let's try all of these ideas and let's just use the framing sequence of us in the Spider-Man office and Ralph Macchio notoriously being late and Bob Harris fuming that Ralph is late and everybody kind of being in character looking back on that I have read I have read it a few times this then it's like my god it was incredibly
• 1:13:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: incredibly incredibly worried.
• 1:13:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: I felt bad for the letter, but it feels like an issue of like what the You know what I mean like one of those old marble parody bags.
• 1:13:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a really fun.
• 1:13:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: I got to reread it for this I was like, oh, this is a good tie
• 1:13:51
  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I think it does hold up, which is I wish I'd been a little more a little more economical with the word balloons, but I think it's pretty much whole and I wish that, I mean, some of the end jokes probably felt flat with, you know, the audience outside in New York, but, um, but I'm glad I'm glad you still found it enjoyable.
• 1:14:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, now let me set the scene on this one because the stakes are high.
• 1:14:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Doom, the evil despo from Laveria, has come to the United States with an army of Doombots and is attacking a full stadium full of innocent people.
• 1:14:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: But Spider-Man is there as well as Billy the Marlin, the mascot for the Florida Marlins, and he's got a water gun.
• 1:14:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can't be about the Billy the Marlin one shot.
• 1:14:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a good time.
• 1:14:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: I got that I had the opportunity to write Dr. Doom and I had the opportunity to have him say something to the effect of you shall regret Marlin, but you have incurred the wrath of Victor Von Doom.
• 1:14:49
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I mean, it was just so over the top and fun.
• 1:14:53
  [SPEAKER_11]: That one, what I was told to do on that one,
• 1:14:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: was that Billy the Marlin, this guy, you know, a guy in a big fish suit that's a mascot for a baseball team, had to somehow help Spider-Man defeat this Superville.
• 1:15:08
  [SPEAKER_11]: So hence the water gun and the motivation for, okay, why is Dr. Doom in a baseball stadium?
• 1:15:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: I believe it was Glenn Herdling who came on the idea that we want to, we're going to have a lot of very in all-star team and we're going to steal the best players from
• 1:15:22
  [SPEAKER_11]: All the other American Major League baseball teams and at the time is like, oh, you need to use this guy, Jeff Kona, they had very, very specific, the marlins were pretty, they were an expansion team, they're pretty new team at the time.
• 1:15:35
  [SPEAKER_11]: And this was like their big project to get the word out, so they had very specific needs.
• 1:15:40
  [SPEAKER_11]: So Jeff Kona and escape the clutches of Victor von Doom and there was no librarian, all start team and, you know, I got paid for another costume comic.
• 1:15:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, one more about your writing.
• 1:15:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: There are two issues of Nate Gray X-Man that you wrote as one shot.
• 1:15:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm assuming kind of as villains.
• 1:15:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm really shocked looking at these back, the villains that you chose in this kind of wild, headdy time.
• 1:16:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is not an easy character to sum up in a few words, first of all.
• 1:16:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: But you used a hybrid from the dire rates in one of the issues, which is a creepy old Marvel-favorite of mine.
• 1:16:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then you used the crusader in another one shot.
• 1:16:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: uh... tell us a little about your work on x-man these are these are fun uh... little little i don't know time capsals into the dindies for me these are boy i've talked to one of those are zetted by j-guardner who i shared an office with and i've had j on the show great guy yeah and i know j's always j i've talked to him in a year i mean it's been about a year but he was doing fine last time we spoke
• 1:16:38
  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, one was edited by Jay the other was edited by Glenn Greenberg both times I got to use just these I was a huge ROM fan as a kid and hybrid was this like you said it this kind of a creepy character that was half dire raise and and half human and it just it was part of it was out in a set you
• 1:16:57
  [SPEAKER_11]: just to circle back to your original question.
• 1:16:59
  [SPEAKER_11]: Why use these rather obscure villains?
• 1:17:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: Part of it was out of necessity because as the guy writing the fill in, I was not really allowed to touch on any of the overall X-Men continuity that was going on and with, frankly, with the X-Man book, I wouldn't have understood it anyway.
• 1:17:16
  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I'd never, I wrote that character twice and did my best to get into his head and it still was never a character that I really, really could wrap my head around.
• 1:17:25
  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, if I'd ever, if I'd ever gotten the opportunity to write it on more regular basis, I think I really would have tried, you know, I had an idea, I had kind of an idea of where to take it if that was ever off or but it wasn't.
• 1:17:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's crazy along his title ran.
• 1:17:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was 75 issues.
• 1:17:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I run for that character.
• 1:17:42
  [SPEAKER_11]: You don't even see any.
• 1:17:43
  [SPEAKER_11]: You don't see that much anymore.
• 1:17:44
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, so hybrid, um, that just came from like I really want to use this old ROM villain.
• 1:17:49
  [SPEAKER_11]: And he is a mutant.
• 1:17:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: So the connection being that, um, Nate Gray would hear would hear him at his dreams and, uh, think it was a little kid because hybrid like can transform itself into this little kid and be lowered into this trap where it'd be like powerful, powerful, and not empath, but powerful, uh, telekinetic versus powerful telekinetic and have this big battle royal with his mind.
• 1:18:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: Crusader was from the war story in the 80s where he was just religious fanatic who went not somehow.
• 1:18:21
  [SPEAKER_11]: I guess he actually did get his powers from heaven.
• 1:18:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't put this origins.
• 1:18:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: Someone needs to really like clarify this origin story of how he got his powers.
• 1:18:28
  [SPEAKER_11]: But yeah, he was, I think, struck by lightning and he suddenly was like a super high.
• 1:18:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I brain Jesus.
• 1:18:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's something to do with it, I guess.
• 1:18:37
  [SPEAKER_11]: That was the part of the X-man continuity when he was being followed around like a cult leader or something.
• 1:18:44
  [SPEAKER_11]: And I thought, okay, who would be upset about something like this?
• 1:18:47
  [SPEAKER_11]: Like this crazed religious fanatic who didn't even like as guardian because they called themselves gods.
• 1:18:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: So...
• 1:18:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: hence the motivation for the crusader versus Nate Gray.
• 1:18:57
  [SPEAKER_11]: Those two, again, I enjoyed both of those.
• 1:19:00
  [SPEAKER_11]: I great art on both of them, Rickley and Arty did one, and I believe it was Luke Ross, did the other who had worked for me on the Spider-Man books.
• 1:19:08
  [SPEAKER_11]: Again, and I thought, I think they still hold up for the most part.
• 1:19:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: For a character I never really understood, I thought I had some fun with it.
• 1:19:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're both really fun.
• 1:19:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: And as a fill-in issue, they both feel cups of quenchil and really superhero adventure.
• 1:19:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Nate Gray's make raise and not an easy character to, he, I mean, he's got the Superman syndrome, right?
• 1:19:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's so OP.
• 1:19:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Almost hard to find foes for him to find.
• 1:19:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I do want to have you back on the show later this year to talk about more specifically your book, Logan, Shadow Society.
• 1:19:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: The witch you got to edit.
• 1:19:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's it's really great.
• 1:19:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: It'd be fun to have you reread it and revisit that.
• 1:19:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to save my questions on that one But I want to talk to you about two big editorial swings that I saw you take that are fascinating to me as as a reader.
• 1:19:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Number one during Heroes Reborn.
• 1:19:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Silver got his own title and then there was the choice to pair him with the animal characters from the Knights of Wondergore and that story in particular I found so wild.
• 1:20:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now that book had a bunch of creative team changes and a lot of X-Men continuity weaves in and out But do you want to talk about establishing the premise for the quick silver book?
• 1:20:16
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I wish it was more interesting, but the story is that when I got promoted to associate editor and I had my own books there was there was a quick silver title that was already like in it was it was on the schedule it did it had no creative team attached to it it had no idea really behind it other than we want this to be an ongoing series.
• 1:20:40
  [SPEAKER_11]: And so I got it, and I had some pitches from some interesting creative teams that ended up not working on the book.
• 1:20:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: At some point, I believe it was Bob Harris, who said, let's make it a group book and give them the nights of one encore.
• 1:20:54
  [SPEAKER_11]: I really can't really take much credit for the germ of that idea.
• 1:20:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: So once that was the concept I had had a proposal from,
• 1:21:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: a very different proposal from Mike Baron that we were looking at and there was, I think, one other.
• 1:21:08
  [SPEAKER_11]: But when this became the proposal, I was like, okay, we got to start it from scratch again.
• 1:21:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: So I reached out to Tom Pire, who was a writer, who's work I liked at DC and wanted to.
• 1:21:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I haven't had Tom on the show once.
• 1:21:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's been a long time though.
• 1:21:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was about three years ago.
• 1:21:21
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, he had done some good things.
• 1:21:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: I really wanted to bring him over to Marvel and he sunk.
• 1:21:27
  [SPEAKER_11]: He kind of got into this and he actually, I think it was Tom who created most of the actual individual characters that were in the Knights.
• 1:21:34
  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, Bova had been around and there might have been one or two of those, but these were like original characters.
• 1:21:40
  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, it was a fun idea.
• 1:21:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: It just Tom didn't stay too long because they hold the original team didn't stay too long and it was frankly a bit of a nightmare looking back I feel like that book didn't really find its footing until it I kind of started to interweave it with with my other main book heroes for hire.
• 1:21:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
• 1:21:58
  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah
• 1:21:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: I think that a little interconnected universe there and the fact that it was tied together by, I don't know, like you said, some X-Men continuity and some black knight continuity, but also some of this one, the knight to one big war stuff, which ended up being, the mysterious, you know, knight of I think it was his name.
• 1:22:18
  [SPEAKER_11]: So I don't even remember the name of the character, but the one who turned out to be the man beast.
• 1:22:21
  [SPEAKER_11]: You break, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:22:25
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I thought that was very much orchestrated because I feel like his name was a non, like anonymous, but you're only going to fit a minute exactly exactly a non and yeah, John O. Stranger and Joe Edkin when they started working together on those books really kind of
• 1:22:40
  [SPEAKER_11]: It ended in that much of one of that siege of one of our crossover that is probably largely forgotten, but I was very, very proud of.
• 1:22:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: We do a lot of character analysis on my show and because so many characters are in there, we've visited multiple times actually and it is kind of a continuity.
• 1:22:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: mess, but you know it pays off.
• 1:22:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like all the stuff is there that you need.
• 1:22:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: It must have been a wild thing to be working on promoting these books when all of Marvel's major properties that just gone over to this kind of heroes reborn, a world in all of the image comics craziness.
• 1:23:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Some really fun creative flow that came out of all of that, but what a wild time to be an editor.
• 1:23:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure.
• 1:23:15
  [SPEAKER_11]: It was an interesting creative time because, at least that we had, I mean, the onslaught storyline in the X-Men, which I wasn't directly involved.
• 1:23:24
  [SPEAKER_11]: I did some crossovers in the Spider-Man books.
• 1:23:26
  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't think it was ever meant to lead into this, but somehow it was reworked that the onslaught ending would lead to the hero's reborn.
• 1:23:34
  [SPEAKER_11]: And then you had this world where there was no fantastic four, there was no Avengers, Captain America Iron Man,
• 1:23:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: and whatever, whatever villains had left with them.
• 1:23:44
  [SPEAKER_11]: And whereas there was a lot of things you couldn't do, that gave, we had a whole editorial conference to deal with the aftermath of he or she born.
• 1:23:54
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's like, how are we gonna fill these gaps?
• 1:23:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: And I think some good ideas came out of that.
• 1:23:57
  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, that was part of the time when I was an associate editor and I had to come up with books for myself.
• 1:24:04
  [SPEAKER_11]: It was tough because I was even fewer books to go around because four of them were over with the years we've learned.
• 1:24:09
  [SPEAKER_11]: That was when I came up with the idea of the man thing, as the guardian of the nexus of all realities.
• 1:24:16
  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, this thing probably just blew the share of the nexus of all realities.
• 1:24:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: So there's a whole motivation for man thing to like, you know, go around the Marvel Universe trying to fix things.
• 1:24:25
  [SPEAKER_11]: And that led to the series that I was really happy with, written by Jammed and Madness and drawn by Liam Sharp.
• 1:24:31
  [SPEAKER_11]: It also gave momentum to ideas like Thunderbolts, which re-voured and curfewsicle working on.
• 1:24:38
  [SPEAKER_11]: And heroes for hires, like we had to replace the advantage.
• 1:24:42
  [SPEAKER_11]: We had our place to Fantastic Four.
• 1:24:44
  [SPEAKER_11]: We had to have heroes fill in these spots.
• 1:24:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: And the jury will always be out as to how effective that was.
• 1:24:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, as a fan who was picking up these books, there were some that like really saying out to me, Jim is one of my all-time favorite writers.
• 1:25:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's crazy to call him a friend at this point, but he, his man thing book was amazing.
• 1:25:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I loved Thunderbolts.
• 1:25:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: I loved the case of Kazaar.
• 1:25:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: The heroes for higher roster was really, was really a good time to grow up.
• 1:25:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: And I had kind of build up my own little, my own little fiefdom of titles.
• 1:25:16
  [SPEAKER_11]: And I just really, really got into this will kind of segue into Blaise of Glory, actually.
• 1:25:21
  [SPEAKER_11]: I really kind of loved going into those less explored parts of the Marvel universe, those less fleshed out characters, you know, your power man, an iron fist, and man thing, and moonlight, and the machine man, and a bunch of bunch of others that never really
• 1:25:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: But yeah, that was it was it was maybe not the most commercially commercially viable way to secure my future there, but it was it was fun Okay, we're gonna I'm gonna give a little bit of preamble here.
• 1:25:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna be exploring a lot of Marvel Westerns this month I have a character channel where we go deep into some of the Marvel themed Western characters I did a lot of research on this.
• 1:26:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was really fascinating to kind of intersect it in my own life in journey
• 1:26:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: There are multiple characters that appear after Superman in that initial feature.
• 1:26:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: So when you flip through the first Superman story, the very next character that shows up is a guy named Chuck Dawson, who is a cowboy.
• 1:26:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's 1939 and we are telling cowboy stories.
• 1:26:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: They are all over pulp novels.
• 1:26:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: They are all over Hollywood movies.
• 1:26:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's entire sets and franchises and shows that are running for decades.
• 1:26:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: In the 1950s, Marvel had a bunch of romance comics and a bunch of monster magazines, but there were also a whole bunch of Western themed characters.
• 1:26:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: These characters usually get involved in modern stories through time travel.
• 1:26:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Some of them come to live in the present or the characters go in the past or more often, you'll get them in a big panoramic where there's dinosaurs and, you know, as tech warriors and cowboys all riding at your hero because they, you know,
• 1:27:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Marvel had a bunch of more sensitive versions of this in the 80s and 90s, but these stories are usually full of a ton of when we view it from a 2026 lens, violence and unfair treatment toward indigenous people in particular, but also black people and also women.
• 1:27:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's very much kind of a white man power fantasy is how we could describe that version of storytelling.
• 1:27:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's rare to see stories that get it more sensitively.
• 1:27:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, in the mid-90s, Fabianisi is a did a really beautiful two-parter called Tugan Kid the Sunset writers, if you want to look at that.
• 1:27:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Marvel did a series a little after this called The Apache Skies, but there's a four-issue series from 1999, one of the last things Mark edited, done by John Ostrander and Leonardo Monko, who did a few really beautiful books together.
• 1:27:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a four-year series called Blaze of Glory.
• 1:27:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm assuming it's named after the John Bon Jovi song.
• 1:27:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: John Bon Jovi had a blaze of glory and what was it?
• 1:27:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Marwood wanted that era live.
• 1:27:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like those Western themed kind of hard rock songs in the early 90s.
• 1:28:00
  [SPEAKER_11]: Blaze of Glory was the song that was the, it was the theme for the movie Young Guns.
• 1:28:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Young Guns.
• 1:28:05
  [SPEAKER_11]: I've been told that and either no one noticed or no one cared.
• 1:28:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I'm gonna read the first couple of pages of this and then let me turn it over to Mark to talk about how this story is crafted, but John Allstranger has not a lot of really beautiful things for DC and for Marvel.
• 1:28:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've never interviewed John, but this series stands up.
• 1:28:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's beautifully drawn and it's very well told at the end of the day.
• 1:28:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a lot of sensitivity that we weren't seeing in comics in this era.
• 1:28:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: So let me begin with just with the first couple pages of narration.
• 1:28:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's the West of Fact, there's the West of Legend, this story falls somewhere in between.
• 1:28:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is the West of Fact.
• 1:28:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: On July 4th, 1876, General George Armstrong Custer led his 7th Cavalry to annihilation at the Little Big Horn River in Montana territory.
• 1:28:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: The following year, Hinmatam Yalakit of the Ness' Purse, known to the Whites' chief Joseph, refused to accept a treaty forced on them by the Whites and successfully fought federal soldiers as he and his tribe fled towards Canada.
• 1:29:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: For 1,000 miles they retreated and fought until on October 5, 1877, 30 miles from the Canadian border they were forced to surrender in Montana territory.
• 1:29:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Weary Hinmaton Yalakit said, I will fight no more forever.
• 1:29:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: In 1879, African-American settlers fled the south heading for lands in Kansas and the territories.
• 1:29:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: They were known as the exodusters.
• 1:29:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Many would return due to lack of money and experience on hostility, but others would push on seeking freedom promised by the end of the Civil War.
• 1:29:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: In 1882, rich copper and silver mines were found in Montana, attracting hordes of men seeking fortunes.
• 1:29:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: There would be a need for water for the smelting factories.
• 1:29:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: The great copper tower of Anaconda was based on its ability to provide that water.
• 1:29:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I've been to Anaconda, Montana, everybody, just so you know, at a bus point was your real town.
• 1:29:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's real.
• 1:29:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: I had a bus break down there once.
• 1:29:51
  [SPEAKER_19]: Not a lot, not a lot there.
• 1:29:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And on September 8th, 1883, the Northern Pacific Railroad was completed.
• 1:29:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: The final spiking driven at Independence Creek, 60 miles west of Helida, Montana territory.
• 1:30:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: The west was rapidly becoming settled.
• 1:30:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: The frontier was rapidly being closed.
• 1:30:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Times were changing.
• 1:30:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: And whole ways of life were changing with them.
• 1:30:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Then we get a beautiful double page spread of a lot of Marvel Western heroes mixed with actual outlaws as it gives kind of character descriptions of each one and I won't read all of this but the part that I want to focus on there are also the men whose lives gave birth to the west of legend and whose legends became more real than their life.
• 1:30:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: men such as, and I won't read the descriptions, but we've got Ghost Rider, Caleb Hammer, Billy the Kid, Wild Bill Hickock, Buffalo Bill, Reno Jones, Wyatt Earp, Gun Hawk, Kid Colt, Rahide Kid, the two gun kid, Red Wolf, this story is of some of these men of the men behind the legends, and the summer of 1885 when their paths crossed one last time.
• 1:30:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: So as we're opening this, it's comprehensive, but it really changes the narrative right from the beginning of we're going to give some thought to indigenous people to people of color and make this a more true telling rather than just focusing on kind of white gunsling your stories, which already makes it really special.
• 1:31:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Mark, tell us about assembling the team for Blaze of Glory.
• 1:31:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Where did this book come from?
• 1:31:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, first of all, I hope you do get to interview John Oestrander because I mean, I forgot how beautiful those words were that he wrote and certainly he could tell you a lot of what went into the story from his point of view.
• 1:31:23
  [SPEAKER_11]: I believe the idea came from me originally before a writer was attached to it.
• 1:31:30
  [SPEAKER_11]: I like the idea of doing something about the Marvel Western heroes.
• 1:31:35
  [SPEAKER_11]: Basically, they're last adventure.
• 1:31:37
  [SPEAKER_11]: They're last ride, which I think was in the title.
• 1:31:40
  [SPEAKER_11]: When I gave it John, who I think had already worked on a series for DC called the Kents, which was a Western.
• 1:31:47
  [SPEAKER_11]: It was the history of Clark Kent's family.
• 1:31:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and he wrote Bishop and Punisher from Marvel, both of which are huge Western in-right characters, right?
• 1:31:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: And John and I had just developed such a great working relationship on heroes for higher.
• 1:32:04
  [SPEAKER_11]: And I mean, I admired Suicide Squad.
• 1:32:06
  [SPEAKER_11]: It was one of my favorite books as a reader.
• 1:32:08
  [SPEAKER_11]: And that was all from him.
• 1:32:11
  [SPEAKER_11]: When we got down and discussing it, I said, hey, what can you do with two-gun kid, Raohai Kid, Red Wolf, and the original Ghost Rider, who later was called Might Rider.
• 1:32:22
  [SPEAKER_11]: And they put a twist on that in the story where the Night Riders were essentially the Clansman,
• 1:32:26
  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, well, that's what they called the writers for the KKK.
• 1:32:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: So the fact that Marble had a night writer heroes wild to me.
• 1:32:33
  [SPEAKER_11]: Those, that's one of those, uh, one of those little unfortunate things you look back on and realize you could have thought about that better.
• 1:32:41
  [SPEAKER_11]: But yeah, there was this a lot of excitement about it from the very beginning and just the fact that he, what I mean, Caleb Hammer was, he was in one issue of Marvel premiere and this wasn't even like a silver age character so he really wanted to just throw the kitchen sink at this thing as far as including everybody.
• 1:33:10
  [SPEAKER_11]: is like if you were like a continuity geek for Marvel westerns like there was just all kinds of stuff in here for you, but like you said that theme, the racial theme and the Native American, that really was the whole heart of the story.
• 1:33:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I remember the KKK are the villains,
• 1:33:33
  [SPEAKER_11]: There was a part of one of the things he's talking about legend versus reality, the gun hawk series, which I think I only ever read one issue of I believe that was the one where Reno Jones was a former slave who was the sidekick, but he was like he was like treated well by his slave masters it was something really really like
• 1:33:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and this is a character Reno Jones first shows up in 1972 gun hocks was a later series in the 70s and then Marvel did a bunch more series in like the mid 80s.
• 1:34:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's when like Bill Mantlow did raw-hide kid and it's like every few years they retouched these properties a little bit.
• 1:34:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: So John came up with this clever idea of not everything in these Marvel Western comics is reality some of it was adapted into the dime store knows because as westerns it lends itself to that interpretation more so than say superhero stories.
• 1:34:30
  [SPEAKER_11]: So that thing was there from the beginning and he was he had as he had in the Kent series I believe he chose to get that whole kind of slave state versus non slave state debate like bleeding Kansas kind of storyline in there with the exo dustors.
• 1:34:46
  [SPEAKER_11]: build the whole thing around, you know, this conflict between this village and this mining company and all these characters brought in in different ways.
• 1:34:53
  [SPEAKER_11]: And he chose to take this really kind of hard, realist look at what these guys would be.
• 1:35:00
  [SPEAKER_11]: If like, if Caleb Hammer is a Pinkerton agent, then he's not, he's going to go after someone like Raw High Kid or two gun kid who were essentially outlaws instead of fighting on their side.
• 1:35:10
  [SPEAKER_11]: Gun Hawk is a mercenary, then he
• 1:35:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: He's going to go and be ruthless and then kill whoever you need to one.
• 1:35:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's really selected to in the original Ghost Rider number one, which is the story where we see Carter slayed in August, what's the publication here on that when like 1966, I think.
• 1:35:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Carter Slade is a white guy who gets taken in by a Native American men named Flamingstar who's like, let us give you our sacred artifacts and turn you into this all-white, you know, horsemen who's later going to call yourself after the Ku Klux Club.
• 1:35:47
  [SPEAKER_11]: not to be fair.
• 1:35:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: I think that happened only because they brought that character bat.
• 1:35:52
  [SPEAKER_11]: They created a new ghost rider who was the skull headed motorcycle.
• 1:35:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, they brought a Western character back and they couldn't use the same name.
• 1:35:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: So they did use this character cleaning star, the native, and John Austin, where he brings flaming star back into the story in a much more sympathetic light as well.
• 1:36:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of attention given to the details of how the characters would have interacted in real history, which I super appreciate.
• 1:36:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I mean, he really delved into like what made each of these characters tick and what made them individual because that that to me would have been the hardest part for most writers obviously you have done you know more than your share of research, but I think a lot of like new readers just coming to this this John this Marvel genre they're going to see like all these different characters with basically like cowboy hats and chaps and
• 1:36:40
  [SPEAKER_11]: two gun-kid, raw-hide-kid, gun-hod, Caleb Hammer, et cetera, Red Wolf is different, Ghost Rider has a supernatural on it, but a lot of these cowboy, these gun-fighter characters probably seem kind of interchangeable.
• 1:36:51
  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'm not sure how much that Stan and whoever else wrote them went out of their way to make them all a distinct from each other, but John Ostrander really, I think, got into each of their origin stories.
• 1:37:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: Again, had to flesh them out as very different characters.
• 1:37:08
  [SPEAKER_11]: one of them was a rich lawyer who ended up becoming an outlaw and just, um, and that's, that's too good.
• 1:37:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: And for everybody, just for context, and this is just mid 90s.
• 1:37:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: So this is like my, my high school years, 1994, and this is just a short list, the list is longer.
• 1:37:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like 1994 saw very successful movies, Brad Pitt and Anthony Hopkins and Legend of the Fall, Mel Gibson and Maverick, Kevin
• 1:37:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: 1995 had the Sam Rainy movie The Quick and the Dead with Leo DeCaprio and Russell Crow, Desperado, that same year with Antonio Benderis.
• 1:37:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: 1996 had last man standing with Bruce Willis, 97 was the revisiting of the Mask of Zoro.
• 1:37:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: 99 was right with the Devil and Wild Wild West.
• 1:37:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like this is a big market to tap into and I'm kind of guessing that's where you're like, oh, let's bring that in.
• 1:37:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's use the Marvel properties because like this was big in the 90s.
• 1:38:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that was part of it, and the one you left out, which I think was the most impactful of all of them was, was unforgiven.
• 1:38:12
  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, and less of the most he can.
• 1:38:13
  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, yeah, that was one of the first movies that I went to see after moving to New York and.
• 1:38:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: I think arguably like every Western that followed it was such a deconstructive type of Western that I think every movie that followed it and then the series dead would on HBO though that would come later.
• 1:38:32
  [SPEAKER_11]: But yeah, some of those movies in the 90s really kind of revitalized a genre that many people thought was dead.
• 1:38:40
  [SPEAKER_11]: For me it was just something I love Superheroes, but I love trying other things in comics when I was in comics and just
• 1:38:49
  [SPEAKER_11]: and to have Leonardo Manco, we haven't said enough about that guy, Manco, my word, just beautiful.
• 1:38:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Manco didn't do a lot for Marvel.
• 1:38:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hellstorm the series drew it the series.
• 1:39:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think where we'll find a couple of annuals.
• 1:39:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: There was a Dr. Doom limited a warm machine limited, but really that's it.
• 1:39:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's not a ton.
• 1:39:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the way this mandra is like tech and like full figure and action and the
• 1:39:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: It'd be beautiful, beautiful art.
• 1:39:15
  [SPEAKER_11]: I have never seen, well, just I first probably noticed this work on where we'll find night.
• 1:39:20
  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not sure if that was the first thing that I saw, but I remember where we'll find night and man thing kind of took place.
• 1:39:25
  [SPEAKER_11]: We try to create this strange tales, kind of adult theme, depor, universe, and those are the first two books.
• 1:39:31
  [SPEAKER_11]: I paid close attention to that, but when someone suggested him for this,
• 1:39:36
  [SPEAKER_11]: And he started getting on it.
• 1:39:37
  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know if you've been to the any version of the Marvel bullpen or the the offices where the work the the the art touchups are being done never in the official office is no I've had meetings on the ground floor.
• 1:39:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: But yeah, the Marvel bullpen is it's a place where all of the original artwork comes through for paste up and I mean I it's probably different now it's probably more the way more digital, but when these Maggo pages came in.
• 1:40:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: And the thing was, I mean, he was so good, but he was, you think someone like that would be like super slow, but he was fast.
• 1:40:09
  [SPEAKER_11]: He like knew his deadlines, when these pages are coming like five at a time, and everybody in the bullpen would like gather around.
• 1:40:16
  [SPEAKER_11]: These are people who, that's don't necessarily.
• 1:40:17
  [SPEAKER_11]: care about westerns in general, but they really, really gathered around to see this this artwork and it was just everybody was very, very excited about this happening.
• 1:40:27
  [SPEAKER_11]: And the other you probably know this, but it was originally supposed to be two 48 page, like kind of massive cardbound of not hardbound, like I like a
• 1:40:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like those books that would have sold for like eight bucks back in the day.
• 1:40:40
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, something like a like a like a grab more of a graphic novel presentation.
• 1:40:44
  [SPEAKER_11]: And I still think that would have been the better presentation for the streets.
• 1:40:48
  [SPEAKER_11]: That that's how the story was written by the time I left.
• 1:40:51
  [SPEAKER_11]: It was it was written as to large 48 parts.
• 1:40:54
  [SPEAKER_11]: And I guess.
• 1:40:54
  [SPEAKER_11]: Tom Brevord, who I think finished the series, was told to make it into a four-issue series for probably for sales reasons.
• 1:41:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not gonna.
• 1:41:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: It was pretty much finished by the time I left and obviously I was so happy to see it finally come out.
• 1:41:09
  [SPEAKER_11]: Tom was very kind of like given me credit for everything that I had set into motion on it.
• 1:41:14
  [SPEAKER_11]: And I believe there was a collected edition at one point where it might have all been between two covers, but
• 1:41:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then Ostrander and Michael came back in 2002 to do the Apache Sky series, which is a smaller cast.
• 1:41:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's the Apache Kid or some variations off of that 50s character.
• 1:41:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, everybody I am doing an Apache Kid focused episode over on the Patreon channel.
• 1:41:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I read that whole 50s bucket and my friend Matt Perrent is there to go through that with me.
• 1:41:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, the Apache Kid and the Rahide Kid could get brought back in that four-issue limited series, which is
• 1:41:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: been saying is like we're not going to treat all of the continuity is canon for these characters because it's a lot.
• 1:41:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you remember how the book was received at the time?
• 1:41:58
  [SPEAKER_11]: Well like I said I wasn't I mean internally it was received with a whole lot of excitement.
• 1:42:03
  [SPEAKER_11]: How it's sold I don't know I was I wasn't there at the time but the fact that you mentioned Apache's guys I mean the fact that John and and Manco were brought back to do something else tells me that you know it found some kind of an audience.
• 1:42:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I've been, I don't know, I call this like shaking a tree, right?
• 1:42:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Where I'm asking you all kinds of questions from all different parts of your career.
• 1:42:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: How do you feel it as we're looking at everything from Billy the Marlin to, she's guys?
• 1:42:28
  [SPEAKER_11]: I just wish I remembered more details from the, from the blaze of glory story to help you because I honestly don't even have copies of it here where I live right now.
• 1:42:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, this is excellent.
• 1:42:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm really pleased with what we've discussed.
• 1:42:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: I really wanna go track down those piterbed Peter Pan, like peanut butter comics, little circular comics.
• 1:42:45
  [SPEAKER_11]: It's pretty rare now.
• 1:42:46
  [SPEAKER_11]: Somebody bought somebody having autographs and so on eBay, actually.
• 1:42:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: They're very rare.
• 1:42:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's fun.
• 1:42:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's really fun.
• 1:42:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mark, it's excellent to meet you.
• 1:42:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, I'd love to have you back on later this summer to talk about Logan Shadow Society.
• 1:42:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to give that book in particular some really special focus on the show later this year.
• 1:43:02
  [SPEAKER_11]: I will have to re-read out.
• 1:43:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm happy to make you a PDF as needed.
• 1:43:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you have any final thoughts, I'd love to hear them, but what an honor to have you on, and thank you for coming on and sharing your memories.
• 1:43:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: My friend, we're going to put this out at the beginning of April.
• 1:43:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, everybody stay tuned on the show.
• 1:43:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be model Western stuff all month.
• 1:43:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Next week, we're getting really silly, Jordan White, and a lot of Smither with me to talk about the one shot.
• 1:43:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: The Jim Salacrophone shop, the X-Men, visit the State Fair of Texas, which is a wild, dirty, uttered phone.
• 1:43:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And over on the Patreon channel, we're focusing on X-Men themed Western characters.
• 1:43:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we'll be looking at some Galsamone characters like Outlaw and Calico.
• 1:43:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Follow the show at Grimoulton underscore lane on Instagram to stay tuned for upcoming content.
• 1:43:42
  [SPEAKER_11]: As a watch writer and watch reviewer is at TeddyBaldessar.com where you'll also find me doing a few videos.
• 1:43:49
  [SPEAKER_11]: I did a video on the history of James Bond watches, which is kind of cool if you're into that.
• 1:43:55
  [SPEAKER_11]: I am the author of a book called Air Time, which is the history, kind of a history and overview of pilots watches, watches for pilots and aviation.
• 1:44:06
  [SPEAKER_11]: If you're into that, it's a fun
• 1:44:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there are 10,000 things to be nerdy about.
• 1:44:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love that you have watches as your niche.
• 1:44:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you know Jason Lee Big, Jason left Marvel and like, became like the rare candy guy, right?
• 1:44:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's so great when we're able to carve out our spaces.
• 1:44:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's an excellent thing.
• 1:44:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Wonderful to meet you, my friend.
• 1:44:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for joining me today.
• 1:44:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks everybody for listening.
• 1:44:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we'll see you back here next week.
• 1:44:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and great luck in life.
• 1:44:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: and now stay tuned for some thoughts on fascism as a special guest tonight talked about a red skull story and its modern applications.
• 1:44:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: The idea that Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime were instruments of destiny or providence developed gradually in the early 1930s, shipped by propaganda, political mythology, and Germany's recent trauma, meaning leading world war one and the resulting economic devastation.
• 1:44:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: After the defeated World War in World War I, and the instability of the Vymar Republic, many Germans longed for national restoration.
• 1:45:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Make Germany great again, perhaps?
• 1:45:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Not the rhetoric tapped into this mood by presenting Hitler not merely as a politician, but as a figure uniquely chosen to rescue the nation.
• 1:45:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: speeches and party publications increasingly framed his rise as inevitable.
• 1:45:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: When Hitler survived political setbacks, imprisonment after the failed Beer Hall push, and later assassination attempts, these events were folded into a narrative that history itself favored him.
• 1:45:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Religious language was often invoked, though the regime's relationship with Christianity was complex and opportunistic.
• 1:45:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Nazi propaganda frequently referred to Providence guiding Hitler's mission.
• 1:45:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: In speeches Hitler himself used the term Vorschung or Providence, suggesting that a higher power had preserved him for a purpose.
• 1:45:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: This language resonated in a society where Christian identity remained widespread even as the regime sought to subordinate churches to state authority.
• 1:45:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: The message was not strictly theological, but political, survival, and success were framed as evidence of legitimacy.
• 1:46:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're going to fight against quote unquote deviants like Jews in the Roman homosexuals, what banner do you not under accept the Christianity banner in its ugliest form?
• 1:46:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: The phrase thousand year rike a further reinforced this aura of inevitability.
• 1:46:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: So the term, drew loosely on older German and Christian millennial traditions, it was popularized in the 1930s to suggest permanence and historical grandeur, officially proclaimed in 1933 as the third Reich, the so the thousand year right right meaning there were two previous rights you guys could look those up if you'd like I'll talk about them another time, but the regime cast itself as the culmination of German history after the Holy Roman Empire, the first Reich and the German Empire of 1871 to 1918 sometimes referred to as the second Reich.
• 1:46:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: by presenting itself as the next great epic destined to endure for a millennium, the Nazi state wrapped political power in mythic time.
• 1:46:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: As the war progressed, especially after early military victories, the rhetoric of destiny intensified, even when the tide turned after 1943, propaganda continued to insist that Germany's struggle was divinely sanctioned and historically necessary
• 1:47:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: In reality, the regime collapsed in 1945 after a mere 12 years in power.
• 1:47:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: The thousand year right last a little more than a decade, leaving behind a record of destruction that sharply contrasted with the myth of divine inevitability that had once sustained it.
• 1:47:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to talk about Loki.
• 1:47:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Agent of Asgard, number 7 through 9, this is a wonderful alloying series exploring Loki in some of his fun stories after the Kieran Gillen run at Journey into Mystery.
• 1:47:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is also intersecting with the events in access where Loki becomes one of the inverted Avengers in that storyline if you recall when the red skull with Xavier's brain gets murdered by a magneto and it gives birth to the rage baby red onslaught and then they cast a spell in all the heroes personalities
• 1:47:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, we've talked about that in others, focusing on this story and a series of complicated stories and character interactions with her and how Loki's trying to change his inevitable destiny.
• 1:48:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: An old evil version of himself that killed the Earth is back in the present and has been locked up in Asgardia.
• 1:48:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, the very threat that he's tried to avert is his future self, which is right there.
• 1:48:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Dr. Doom, while visiting his art room, becomes aware of a rebellion among his populists inspired by the fantastic four.
• 1:48:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: But no, it's merely a ruse by the telepathic red skull, still with Xavier's brain, playing on Dr. Doom's insecurities.
• 1:48:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: But Dr. Doom simply refuses to believe the story and grows determined to change it.
• 1:48:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: While remaining very aware of the threat that he's facing, and this is a theme we see in the Loki series.
• 1:48:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Stories only have the power that you give them, basically, is the, he becomes the god of stories.
• 1:48:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Loki is free to help the world escape the lies of the red skull and the dark future that feels like it's the only choice.
• 1:48:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then Magneto arrives to recruit Loki to fight the red skull in his team, fighting the red onslaught in genosia, resulting in the inversion that flips everyone's personalities around.
• 1:48:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of conversation about truth.
• 1:48:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Velaria Richards is here who's a child that can see truth.
• 1:49:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then we also have the character Verity Willis, who has the power to only see truth, and her sword gram is the sort of truth, which couldn't pierce through to the truth of something.
• 1:49:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: So in looking number eight, Loki now only has thoughts of heroism and wonderfulness instead of self-preservation, because he's been inverted, and he can no longer lie at all.
• 1:49:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: The enchantress has also been inverted to be good, and it's really fun, but Thor has turned bad, and Loki has to fight the death.
• 1:49:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: throws the team of mad jugglers, and then he turns himself very briefly into a unicorn before facing Thor directly.
• 1:49:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: If it wasn't gay yet, it sure just got there.
• 1:49:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: And in the most shocking moment, Loki in his inverted state is able to lift my owner and defeats Thor, who is once again no longer worthy.
• 1:49:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Loki is the worthy one, and as the red skull inverts to the white skull, due to his own spell and faces defeat, there are still darker truths that lie underneath all the others.
• 1:49:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me welcome my good friend Terry Brown to the show to talk to me about this crazy story.
• 1:50:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Terry, are you a red skull fan, my friend?
• 1:50:04
  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, I liked a lot of the stories I've read about him.
• 1:50:07
  [SPEAKER_15]: I was, damn Sam, a fan of the Nazis, but he does, he does make a good villain.
• 1:50:12
  [SPEAKER_15]: And when he's played well, there's just that level of evil that a lot, not every villain can can reach.
• 1:50:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's nice to have a baseline for your evil for sure.
• 1:50:20
  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
• 1:50:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, Terry's been a longtime fan of the show a long time friend.
• 1:50:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: We've interacted online.
• 1:50:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Years recently, Terry came on the first time for the Texas Twister episode.
• 1:50:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Terry, tell everybody a little about your relationship with comics and are you a fan of Loki comics.
• 1:50:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a pretty fun series.
• 1:50:34
  [SPEAKER_15]: My love of comics goes back to my childhood.
• 1:50:37
  [SPEAKER_15]: As a kid, I was an early reader and I loved fantasy stories and things like that.
• 1:50:42
  [SPEAKER_15]: And when I would go to the grocery store with my mom, if I behave myself rather than getting candy or something like that, she'd let me pick out a comic book from the shit fan.
• 1:50:50
  [SPEAKER_15]: as a reward for being good.
• 1:50:52
  [SPEAKER_15]: A favorite memory is when I was probably around 10 or 11, I got homes from the Stroweth mom while my grandparents were visiting.
• 1:51:00
  [SPEAKER_15]: My grandma was a school librarian.
• 1:51:02
  [SPEAKER_15]: She saw me sit down and catch my comic, and she asked my mom, what do you let him read that trash?
• 1:51:06
  [SPEAKER_15]: a mom said in this firm tone of voice which I hadn't heard a use of my grandma before, but said because he likes to read that just really stuck with me.
• 1:51:16
  [SPEAKER_15]: I also like they grew up in a small-cutting Kansas, so I immediately resonated with Superman and stories in Smallville.
• 1:51:22
  [SPEAKER_15]: It was a lot of good things I learned from the comics growing up about being the good guy and using science and deductive reasoning and things like that.
• 1:51:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, Loki is his own force of nature in Marvel Comics.
• 1:51:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: One of the earliest villains in the old Thor comics.
• 1:51:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's been given a lot like silly plot lines over the years, but in the last 15 or 20 years, especially since Avengers, the movie debuted, Loki is a lot of like focus on him.
• 1:51:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: As a character who has complicated morals, who's trying to ever destiny, he's a really interesting character.
• 1:51:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: I actually really enjoy a lot of the books that have been done by him by incredible writers like Karen Gillin and Alan Ewing.
• 1:52:00
  [SPEAKER_15]: I enjoyed the series.
• 1:52:02
  [SPEAKER_15]: I remember when I was much younger, the stories I read, Loki was just kind of always the insane villain in the background and they didn't really go into a lot of why he was the bad guy other than just because he was evil.
• 1:52:13
  [SPEAKER_15]: And it was really like the Thor movie and the Avengers movie which started giving him a little more depth to that that he wasn't just evil for evil say he was compensating for a lot of his own insecurities they didn't come out and say that that in retrospect that's what was happening.
• 1:52:28
  [SPEAKER_15]: and he was trying to be to be the hero that his parents loved and get out of it from under Thor's shadow.
• 1:52:35
  [SPEAKER_15]: That's something over the course of that and something I saw in the course of these particular issues, him finding a path to being a good person and a hero and not just being the cartoon villain that it was expected of him.
• 1:52:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: the idea of like I want to change my destiny.
• 1:52:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to out.
• 1:52:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:52:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like cycle.
• 1:52:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Asgard is like very obsessed with the idea of Ragnaroff.
• 1:52:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: The thing where the world is going to end eventually anyway.
• 1:53:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so we're all doomed to wind up in one place.
• 1:53:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was in my opinion on the idea of inevitability, which is something we see low-key fighting against as he's searching for what truth means in his complicated world.
• 1:53:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
• 1:53:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: But a story is, what were your thoughts on some of the points in this story as the red skulls trying to play
• 1:53:18
  [SPEAKER_15]: I've liked it, Loki kind of becomes like a champion of free will that our future's not predetermined and that we can make choices and we can control to some extent what we become.
• 1:53:29
  [SPEAKER_15]: And the RIPS goal, I didn't see a lot of them in these stories.
• 1:53:33
  [SPEAKER_15]: He was kind of like off to the side or in the background and I got very excited at the end of the first issue when
• 1:53:39
  [SPEAKER_15]: When my needle shows up because those two are very much, there's history there.
• 1:53:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a shared history from very different.
• 1:53:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 1:53:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 1:53:49
  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
• 1:53:49
  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, they both go back to the world where two in their own way and definitely is like they're, they're both villains, but they're not villains on the same side.
• 1:53:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a few times where they think there's ass and this is a story if you read into the like Charles and Magneto relationship the red skull not only is the Nazi war criminal who murdered Magneto's family he also is got the brain of
• 1:54:22
  [SPEAKER_15]: I really am a big fan of the sort of the redemption kind of story where someone moves past their mistakes in the past or the way these things and trying to reinvent or improve themselves and how there's sometimes a lot of inertia in the other direction that you have to overcome.
• 1:54:41
  [SPEAKER_15]: if you've been the bad guy for a while and everyone just assumes that that's what you are then having that chance of Loki gets here to be oh he's the good guy now and he doesn't have that to over compensate for necessarily he can he can try to do this up and it definitely seemed that he was more aware than most of how things had changed and that this may not be the
• 1:55:08
  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm trying to think of an example.
• 1:55:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's almost convenient, right?
• 1:55:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: We, like, do I wish that I could just have all of my flaws go away overnight?
• 1:55:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right?
• 1:55:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Someone cast an inversion spell and take all my trauma away that I get to be dead.
• 1:55:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:55:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, I think the opposite would happen for me.
• 1:55:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think I'm a pretty good person.
• 1:55:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: So if I got inverted, I would likely end up a super villain, which could be fun.
• 1:55:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: I suppose.
• 1:55:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's almost as though he's been searching for his path, and now he gets an opportunity to take the easy way out.
• 1:55:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: And for the red skull that's the opposite of that, right?
• 1:55:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're red skull.
• 1:55:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:55:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: It gets the opportunity to suddenly be redemptive, which is a really interesting beat on this exploration around truth, all you think writes a hell of a story.
• 1:55:47
  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I definitely want to go back and pick up those other series just a more of that of what was happening with thread Skouldering that part because I didn't I didn't read these at the time when they came out.
• 1:55:58
  [SPEAKER_15]: I was on a on a break for comics for several years.
• 1:56:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, highly recommended and then there's a 25 issue series that predates this called journey into mystery by Kirin Gillin.
• 1:56:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's all about Loki and it's excellent front to back.
• 1:56:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 1:56:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's one of highly recommended.
• 1:56:11
  [SPEAKER_15]: I've seen several writers have said that it's more fun to write the villains because they can do things and they have kind of like more self-awareness or not, they're not as one note or sanitized as like the hero or it's the conflict that makes them more interesting.
• 1:56:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's fascinating to me too that Dr. Deumes' biggest insecurity is that the people in his
• 1:56:40
  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, there's there's definitely he's got that that aristocratic emperor kind of this is my some my world you're just living in it and I mean control of everything kind of attitude throughout that first chapter and and the way that kind of plays off of this younger Loki is like wait no.
• 1:56:55
  [SPEAKER_15]: That's not bad.
• 1:56:56
  [SPEAKER_15]: It's smart storytelling.
• 1:56:57
  [SPEAKER_15]: I think it's quite well done in the first issues that moment when my needle makes his entrance.
• 1:57:02
  [SPEAKER_15]: So I was very like, oh yeah, this is going to be good.
• 1:57:05
  [SPEAKER_15]: This is what I'm waiting for.
• 1:57:06
  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
• 1:57:07
  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
• 1:57:07
  [SPEAKER_15]: Now we're going to see stuff.
• 1:57:09
  [SPEAKER_15]: And then of course, yeah, a lot of the and the character got a suck at names, but the one that has it always sees the truth and things very willous.
• 1:57:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:57:19
  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
• 1:57:19
  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, the dynamic of her being kind of like the Lord allies and the the fear of trees.
• 1:57:25
  [SPEAKER_15]: There's that contrast or dichotomy.
• 1:57:27
  [SPEAKER_15]: And and the little Richard's girl was interesting, too.
• 1:57:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: She was kind of the Larry is like the only thing Dr. Nackers about.
• 1:57:34
  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, and and she's like just kind of so much smarter than everyone else that she's kind of like bored by it almost and and kind of condescending in a lot of what she says.
• 1:57:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's a delicious character.
• 1:57:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: I enjoy her a lot.
• 1:57:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have a big, I have a big Franklin Richards episode out there if you want to go listen.
• 1:57:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like a big treaties on Franklin Richards, but Valeria has her own history.
• 1:57:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:57:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, okay.
• 1:57:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, my last question for you today, Terry, unless you have anything else you'd like to bring up.
• 1:57:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: How you do it in 2026, my friend.
• 1:57:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: These are intense times as a queer Americans.
• 1:58:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: How you hold up?
• 1:58:03
  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I've, I said for a while, my, my default state is cautiously optimistic and that has been challenged over the last year with a lot of things happening in the world.
• 1:58:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I, I experienced you as a very joyful person in our interview.
• 1:58:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
• 1:58:17
  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I, I definitely try to keep a positive attitude and and I get good feedback on that because I've, I've got my own struggle and challenges.
• 1:58:25
  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, I lost half of my leg a few years ago.
• 1:58:31
  [SPEAKER_15]: When people see me out and about doing stuff, a lot of people will comment just on how I'm always smiling and how it cheers them up to to see someone who's got every reason to be sadder or angry, smiling through it and trying to spread spread that positivity once again through being what we make it right.
• 1:58:50
  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, yeah, there's another quote about it.
• 1:58:52
  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not what happens to me, but how I respond to it that makes the difference.
• 1:58:58
  [SPEAKER_15]: And so that's, yeah, it's a lot of comments I make online.
• 1:59:02
  [SPEAKER_15]: A lot of my activism is online because it starts me to get out there in March in the streets, that I can make comments and posts and share information and try to point out that we can do better.
• 1:59:14
  [SPEAKER_15]: And we should,
• 1:59:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:59:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I remain ever grateful for this community and the people that brings into my life.
• 1:59:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm very glad we're done.
• 1:59:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And thanks for your investment in me and the show.
• 1:59:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And just forward to interacting the future.
• 1:59:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, all right, everybody.
• 1:59:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Take care of yourselves.
• 1:59:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Living joyfully is an act of defiance in this crazy world.
• 1:59:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: I will keep for helping you that every time.
• 1:59:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Nothing is inevitable.
• 1:59:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: We just get to choose our path with the structure that we have.
• 1:59:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, uh, learn a lesson from Loki.
• 1:59:41
  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
• 1:59:42
  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, um, if there's another quote about, um, you know, it's, um, things are going to end up okay and if it's not okay then we're not at the end.
• 1:59:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: We are resilient as humans.
• 1:59:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a place that people ending is like no matter.
• 1:59:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: We are, we continue to fight and grow and I'm, I've survived some crazy shit so I can keep surviving if I need to do it, you know.
• 2:00:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, or I'm my friend wonderful to see you.
• 2:00:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks everybody for listening.
• 2:00:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you back here next time.
• 2:00:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: All in your mouth.
• 2:00:06
  [SPEAKER_19]: Thanks so much, Chad.
• 2:00:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Terry.
• 2:00:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for listening to Grimalk and Lane.
• 2:00:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: We hope you are enjoying this podcast.
• 2:00:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Grimalk and Lane is produced and recorded in Salt Lake City, Utah, with music and editing done by my husband, Michael Bell, and promo art done by the incredible Seth Martell.
• 2:00:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Look for us on Patreon, where we are releasing weekly episodes about obscure characters and facts.
• 2:00:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a great way to participate with the podcast for only just a couple of dollars a month and it helps support what we are doing here.
• 2:00:34
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• 2:00:36
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• 2:00:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you back your next time on Grimmulkin Lane.