Latest / The Nerdy Photographer Podcast / 189 - The Only One in the Room: Race, Respect, and Turning Bias into Fuel in Photography

Transcript

189 - The Only One in the Room: Race, Respect, and Turning Bias into Fuel in Photography · The Nerdy Photographer Podcast

0:03
Casey Fatchett: Okay, well, I guess I'll just wait here then.
0:07
Hey there, welcome to the Nerdy Photographer Podcast. I'm your
0:09
host, Casey Fatchett. In addition to bringing you
0:11
informative and entertaining photography-related content, I
0:14
also go on adventures with the crew of the starship Fibonacci.
0:16
I'm currently waiting for a meeting with the leaders of
0:19
Phantasma Seven, but being the only tangible being here, I'm
0:24
getting ignored quite a lot. Excuse me. Nothing. If the
0:30
feeling of being the only in the room is something you can't
0:33
relate to, you definitely need to stick around for this
0:35
episode. I speak with photographer Vicky Thompson
0:37
about how she got hooked on photography, commonly being the
0:40
only black person in the room where she's working, and assumed
0:43
to be in the wrong place, as well as how she's passing her
0:46
love of photography on to her children. All that after the
0:49
break. Seriously, nobody's going to acknowledge that I'm here. I
0:54
have an appointment.
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3:05
Hello and welcome to the Nerdy Photographer Podcast. I'm your
3:07
host Casey Fatchett, and I'm here today with photographerr
3:10
Vicky Thompson. Vicky, welcome to the show.
3:13
Vicky Thompson: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
3:16
Casey Fatchett: Before we get started, I'm going to roll the
3:17
dice breaker, and it's a 19. Okay, what is the best
3:29
investment you have made either in equipment or in your
3:34
business, and why?
3:39
Vicky Thompson: Wow, that's a that's a great icebreaker. This
3:43
would be
3:44
Casey Fatchett: time or money. It doesn't.
3:48
Vicky Thompson: I would probably have to say my my the camera is
3:54
probably like the the first answer that most photographers
3:58
would would answer with, But the lenses are probably the my best
4:05
investment, and particularly I have a 24 to 70, which is the
4:09
workhorse lens, and I can use it for pretty much anything. Any
4:15
shoot is going to make an appearance. That's that that is
4:22
so versatile. It's it's the most versatile lens that I have.
4:26
Casey Fatchett: I always tell people like when they're talking
4:28
about like, oh, I want to get a new camera. I'm like, invest in
4:31
the glass first, like make you get because it'll last you a lot
4:35
longer. The camera is going to be like you're what you're going
4:38
to want to change out the camera in five seven years or whatever
4:42
it's whatever the time period is for you, I said. But that lens
4:45
could last 2025 years.
4:48
Vicky Thompson: Absolutely, absolutely, and it's it's been
4:51
my the 24 to 70 has been my workhorse, and it has lasted me.
4:55
I've used it on different cameras, and it's it's always in
4:59
my bag. All.
5:01
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's one of those things that just like
5:02
for me, same as a wedding and event photographer, the 2470s
5:08
sort of like you know, you you have to have it like it just
5:12
Vicky Thompson: absolutely.
5:13
Casey Fatchett: Even when I love to shoot primes, I'm like I'm
5:16
still keeping that in case I'm in a situation because sometimes
5:19
you're in a situation where things change really rapidly.
5:21
Vicky Thompson: Absolutely
5:22
Casey Fatchett: And you want to be able to like move in and out
5:25
without having to use your feet, or you can't. You can't back up
5:30
any further,
5:31
Vicky Thompson: right? Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah.
5:33
It's definitely, definitely, definitely very, very, very,
5:36
very versatile.
5:38
Casey Fatchett: So, for those who are unfamiliar with you?
5:41
Like, what can you give our listeners like a little bit of
5:43
your background in photography? Like, when you started, what
5:49
type of photography you do?
5:51
Vicky Thompson: Okay, okay. Well, I started when I was a
5:55
teenager. Basically, I was probably about 13 years old, and
5:59
I was a I was babysitting my little cousins. They were
6:02
toddlers, and I just wanted to capture moments. So I used money
6:07
that I made from babysitting them to buy my first camera. It
6:10
was a a film camera, and I would take photos with take photos of
6:15
them every day, and then I'd have to send it off to send the
6:18
photos to be developed. And the waiting game of just waiting to
6:23
see what what I actually captured, and then when I
6:27
receive it back, receive the the photos back, it was kind of like
6:33
looking back on particular moments that were they were just
6:36
everyday moments. But the fact that I could just capture those
6:39
everyday moments of them and memorialize them. It just it
6:45
just seems so special to me. Even though I was 13, I just I
6:48
just absolutely love that, and so that's why I just started. I
6:51
always had it after that. Always had a camera with me. Always I
6:55
was always taking photos at different family functions or
6:59
wherever we travel to, I just love just to capture moments,
7:04
and pretty much was using film cameras. I'm Gen X, so started
7:09
off with film cameras, and had to always send my film off and
7:15
and wait for the photos to come back. And when you're when when
7:18
you have a film camera, you're waiting for your photos to come
7:21
back. You get your photos back, and it's like reliving the
7:24
moments. And that's something that really, really resonated
7:27
with me from from just being a teenager. I just I just always
7:31
loved that, and I always would wait for photos with just
7:34
absolute glee on what I what I captured. And so, pretty much
7:40
used film cameras. Started using digital cameras, probably early
7:45
2000, maybe late 90s, early 2000 or so. Just the same thing.
7:51
Always taking photos wherever I went. Always loved nature.
7:55
Started taking a little bit more nature. But I gotta say that
7:58
Instagram, the the introduction of Instagram is probably what
8:03
led to the flourishing of my photography. Just learning from
8:12
other people, seeing what other people were were posting, it
8:15
made me want to be a lot better. So I started learning a lot more
8:18
of the technical aspects of photography. I love lung
8:22
exposure, either you know water in a in a landscape type
8:29
environment or street photography, like shooting that.
8:33
Also done some astro photography. So basically, I
8:40
would say Instagram is has been critical to the point that I am
8:46
at right now, which is basically I am a nature landscape
8:50
photography, do a little bit of wildlife. I've just started
8:53
getting into birding within the last year, and that's been that
8:58
has been such a joy, and social media has really, really,
9:05
really, I think, brought a lot of attention to photography. So
9:10
you have like a lot of photographers out there, and so
9:13
it's something that you can, you can, it creates conversations.
9:20
You can create conversations and make a lot of connections that
9:23
way.
9:23
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I think that it's. I think the way that
9:26
people use social media, there are a lot of people who just
9:30
feel like kind of beaten down, feel imposter syndrome, and
9:34
that's another like a whole other discussion. But one of the
9:39
things about that is because we have, if you have a sense of,
9:43
there's this is a study that was done. Like, if you have a sense
9:46
of taste, like visually and esthetic, like, and you see
9:51
someone's work that you aspire like to be similar to their
9:55
work, you recognize the difference in the people who
9:59
feel. More sort of defeated by that are the ones who don't
10:04
recognize that that other what you're seeing is like the
10:06
curated best of the best image of like people who are at the
10:13
top of their game and you know like not saying like oh I need
10:17
to learn more sure yeah like I need to like hone my
10:20
fundamentals, whatever, but like, don't compare your every
10:23
shot to the best of the best of them.
10:26
Vicky Thompson: Absolutely, absolutely.
10:28
Casey Fatchett: But the other other side of that is, people
10:30
who have no esthetic and no taste at all don't see any
10:33
difference between their photos, and wow, like the people, like I
10:38
don't see what's different. Like, so if you, those people
10:41
never suffer from imposter syndrome. So like, have they're
10:45
they're never like thinking like, oh, is it? It's not quite
10:48
as good as that, right? I need to improve in something because
10:51
they just don't see the difference between the two. So I
10:54
thought was an interesting part of that whole discussion. So you
11:00
mentioned the the like the candid moments were sort of like
11:04
that's what pulled you into photography. Was there a
11:09
specific photo or photographer that made you think, "Oh, I want
11:13
to do this for a living, and not just as something that I enjoy
11:17
doing"
11:19
Vicky Thompson: Well, 1,000% I would say Gordon Parks. Growing
11:23
up, I researched a lot about the civil rights movement, and I
11:29
would watch videos. We didn't have YouTube back then, but
11:33
there were a lot of documentaries, and Gordon Parks'
11:35
work was featured so much in the documentaries I watched about
11:41
the civil rights movement, and some of the moments that he
11:44
captured, and a lot of them were just ordinary moments, but they
11:49
were ordinary, but they were also extraordinary because they
11:52
captured a moment that actually told a story. And those those
11:59
those photos, I mean, they still stay with me in my mind, and
12:02
I've had a couple of photos that people have like I've captured a
12:06
couple of photos, and people have told me like they didn't
12:09
know that I love Gordon Parks, and they're like, "Oh, you know
12:11
what? That really reminds me of Gordon Parks' work. And I'm, and
12:14
that's like to me the hugest compliment I could ever have,
12:20
because it's it's creating something not just a photo, but
12:23
something that stays with you, and stays and stays with the
12:26
viewer, stays with the person.
12:28
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's those just like even sometimes when we
12:31
think about like moments that are ordinary moments, sometimes
12:35
with extraordinary people. Absolutely, I often think of
12:39
like Pete Souza's work with the Obamas, like just like these
12:43
little like things that you wouldn't necessarily think,
12:45
like, but it shows the human. Like that's what shows the
12:49
humanity in that situation. It's like we tend to see people as
12:52
being bigger than life, but they are human beings, and having
12:57
that sort of vision of things, and Gordon Parks' work is
13:03
amazing. I highly recommend anybody who's listening who has
13:08
never looked at his work definitely go do it.
13:12
Vicky Thompson: Yes, please.
13:14
Casey Fatchett: You should. It's. I mean, you should
13:16
absolutely. And kind of on a similar note, you've talked
13:21
about being one of the few, sometimes the only black woman
13:30
in professional spaces that you work in. What sort of? I mean,
13:36
like I've talked about, I've covered the subject in some ways
13:39
with other photographers and other conversations. Yes, and
13:45
there seems to be you know a through line of feeling like I'm
13:53
not going to say it. How does that make you feel when you're
13:56
in that situation? I don't want to put anybody else's stuff in
14:00
that, like, but we can talk about it more after you.
14:04
Vicky Thompson: Okay. Um. Yes, it's uh, I think as as it's
14:10
gotten a little bit better. Um, but I've I've walked into spaces
14:16
with my equipment, and I've seen people just like do double
14:19
takes. Like, are you lost? You know, they you know they don't
14:25
expect when they know there's a photographer coming and they you
14:28
know I show up with my equipment. I sometimes get these
14:31
looks of you don't belong here, or you're looking for something
14:37
else. I've also had one one instance where I was told by one
14:41
of the organizers of an event that I was that I was hired to
14:46
come photograph, and she she I walk in and she said, "No, I
14:50
think you're you're not in the right space. You're not supposed
14:52
to be here. And so I give her my name. I'm like, "Okay, my name
14:55
is on this documentation. You you need to look it up. And she
14:58
was very adamant. No, you're not supposed to be. Here, so I say,
15:01
okay, just look at your paperwork, whatever paperwork
15:04
you have, and see if my name is on there. And so she's like
15:06
fluffling through all the papers, and she looks, and then
15:10
her eyes are just like, just her eyes got so huge of like, okay,
15:17
realization wrong that the realization that you know that
15:22
this black woman is is coming in and she's she's she's the
15:25
photographer for your event. What it feels like, basically, I
15:32
kind of always brace myself for it, so that it's not something
15:36
that that's gonna take away from my work or make me feel bad when
15:40
I'm working, and I've been pleasantly surprised sometimes
15:44
that that it's not an issue. I mean, I think it's becoming a
15:47
lot more, and I think social media-the advent of social
15:50
media-is actually breaking down a lot of walls because people
15:53
are seeing that you know, photographers come come in all
15:58
shapes and sizes, colors. It's not just a, you know, a cookie
16:04
like a cookie profession anymore.
16:07
Casey Fatchett: And I mean, I can say as a white man, I've
16:10
never had to experience that. Like, I understand that other
16:14
people are don't get that sort of treatment, and there's a
16:18
privilege there that that there. It's why I try to have these
16:22
conversations so to like let other people know. Right. But
16:27
I've seen it in person with like my black photographer friends
16:32
who were doing something and like somebody like security guy
16:35
will like come over like, so what are you doing here? Like
16:38
I'm the second photographer, and and like and they're like, isn't
16:42
that guy the photographer? I'm like, he's my boss.
16:45
Unknown: Wow
16:45
Casey Fatchett: For today, he's like, but that sort of like
16:47
thing where they, I've I've witnessed it, and I'm always
16:51
like trying to say like, listen, this is a guy who's actually in
16:54
charge of all the photography. This is the person like I'm just
16:58
like they automatically assume it's also the same thing that
17:01
happens when I've been the second photographer for female
17:05
photographers.
17:06
Vicky Thompson: Oh, they automatically assume that
17:08
Casey Fatchett: I'm the boss because I'm, and they'll come up
17:11
to me and start talking to me. I'm like, I'm not in charge, and
17:15
like the lead photographer, this woman is standing right next to
17:19
me, and I'm like, she's the boss. She's in charge. She just
17:22
like you talk to her, and he'll look at me like dumbfounded, and
17:25
I'm like, she's in charge. Like that's that's who you need to
17:28
talk to, and they're just like the takes like a minute for like
17:32
them to like oh wait, I was assuming that yeah because
17:37
Vicky Thompson: there's there are assumptions. There are
17:38
assumptions. Well, I do appreciate you recognizing that
17:43
and and trying to bring more attention to it. I think that I
17:46
really think social media. You know, people give social media.
17:49
There's a lot of things wrong with social media, but I do
17:51
think that it has helped tremendously with people seeing
17:56
and and noticing and recognizing that photographers are not just
18:02
white men. Yeah, and that's.
18:05
Casey Fatchett: I mean, honestly, when I started the
18:06
show, it was one of the things I wanted to make sure didn't
18:09
happen. It wasn't going to be a discussion between me and some
18:12
other white guy. I want to hear everybody's like point of view.
18:18
But in that being said, it's like it really is. I agree with
18:22
you. Like social media has, in some ways, opened a lot of eyes
18:27
to the kaleidoscope of people who do photography. I still
18:33
think I
18:34
Vicky Thompson: I like that kaleidoscope. Very good. Very
18:36
good words. Sorry for interrupting you, but no,
18:38
Casey Fatchett: no, no. It's fine. It's like as someone with
18:40
an English degree, it's nice to hear that the word choice still
18:46
got it. The yeah, I think that there's that that is the
18:55
difference is that there are people, you know, especially
18:59
when you're working Events, you go into venues where it's you
19:05
know the same people have been running this place for 40 years,
19:10
Vicky Thompson: right?
19:10
Casey Fatchett: And they they are not the people who are
19:13
getting the message, which is unfortunate. But yeah, I think
19:21
that, and this is something we connected through Angela
19:29
Ledyard, who's a nature photographer as well, and we
19:34
discussed a lot about like you know creating space for Black
19:39
women photographer nature photographers, and it's
19:43
interesting to me as some of my closest photographer friends who
19:47
are also black. All of them are into nature photography. It may
19:52
not be the thing that they do to make money.
19:57
Vicky Thompson: To make money, yeah, but they're
19:58
Casey Fatchett: all into it as. Something that just like even
20:01
this is like an outlet, and like my closest photography friend,
20:04
he always gets me out to go. You mentioned birding. He got me to
20:09
go because I got a 150 to 600 lens.
20:14
Vicky Thompson: Oh, okay, okay, yeah.
20:15
Casey Fatchett: So I could actually start doing some bird
20:17
photography.
20:18
Vicky Thompson: Okay, okay.
20:18
Casey Fatchett: The 70 to 200 was not cutting it.
20:22
Vicky Thompson: Yeah, it's not. It's not enough.
20:25
Casey Fatchett: But it taught me something else. It taught me to
20:28
be really patient, like which and something like, or that I
20:31
might go out and not see what I wanted to photograph.
20:34
Vicky Thompson: Yes,
20:36
Casey Fatchett: it might not be there. They might not show up,
20:38
and that was a whole different thing for me, like I had never
20:42
experienced it. Actually, like brought me a lot of calm that I
20:46
had not experienced as a photographer before.
20:50
Vicky Thompson: I've had the same experience. My kids say
20:53
that, like they tell me that I'm impatient a lot of times, and so
20:58
starting birding, I actually started with Angela. Angela,
21:06
just being able to go out with her. She visited. She she came
21:09
through my city for a couple of days, and we got together. And
21:13
she's always go go go go go, and we were out shooting a lot,
21:19
almost for like 48 hours straight, and just watching her
21:24
shoot birds, and just the knowledge that she had about the
21:29
birds. Like I've seen birds do some things, and I never really
21:32
even thought that much about it. But she knew exactly why they
21:34
were doing, you know, some of their bird things, and so that
21:40
that made me say, you know what? I'm gonna just like start going
21:43
out and do some birding. And what I realized is, I really
21:47
didn't even really need to go out. Like, there's birds
21:51
everywhere. Like, I have I have lived on this earth for a long
21:56
time, for you know, some some years, I will say, but I never
22:00
really listened to birds, and it it opened up my world to. There
22:08
are so many different birds, and they all have different. They
22:14
all well, they all have different calls, but they're all
22:17
different, and and what they're you know what what they're
22:21
looking for, what their profile is, what they look like, is it
22:28
just really blew my mind. It really blew my mind.
22:31
Casey Fatchett: It's so there's yeah they they motivation and
22:34
behaviors and all the things. My friend Anthony, who like I was
22:38
mentioning, is we got me into like bird photography. He
22:43
started because where he lives in New York, the Hawks, like the
22:46
that that like roost roosted in a building near where he lived.
22:51
So that's what kind of got him. He's like trying to take
22:53
pictures of that, and that kind of got him into birds. And then
22:57
he's since like gone into like getting more and more into
23:02
birding, yeah, as well, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just trying to
23:05
get the crows to become friends with me. Like, they trying to
23:10
get. I'm trying to get my army of crows that visit my backyard.
23:15
I've got them like they come and like land in the trees, but they
23:17
will not come and get the food. They they they don't trust me
23:20
that much yet.
23:22
Vicky Thompson: Give them some time. Y
23:24
Casey Fatchett: Yeah you got to build up the like
23:26
Vicky Thompson: that trust level. Yeah, repetition,
23:28
Casey Fatchett: repetition, repetition.
23:29
Vicky Thompson: Absolutely.
23:30
Casey Fatchett: They, but yeah, eventually, like my wife just
23:32
like laughs about it for years. She wouldn't let me try to do it
23:34
because she's like, I don't want to like a whole bunch of crows
23:37
all over the yard. And but now she's like, okay, you know, if
23:40
you can do it, that's fine. And I'm like, they're just gonna
23:42
show up like once a day for like food. Yeah, they just want to
23:45
pass. Yeah, that's
23:46
Vicky Thompson: yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah. They're
23:48
not gonna mess up anything either. They're not gonna, you
23:50
know, they're not gonna ruin your yard. They just want a
23:52
little safe space to get a little bit of food here. Yeah,
23:55
well, the
23:56
Casey Fatchett: competition for me is there's like a like a
23:59
strip mall kind of like two blocks away, where there's like
24:03
lots of food.
24:04
Vicky Thompson: Yeah, lots of free food for the taking, huh?
24:06
Yeah, so they're just like,
24:07
Casey Fatchett: man, I'm just gonna pick up the stuff in the
24:09
in there. So I'm like trying to beat that expectation of be
24:12
like, hey, I can give you something too. You guys are ever
24:15
not in need of
24:17
Vicky Thompson: I'm sorry, that's a that's gonna be a tough
24:20
one. That's a tough competition.
24:23
Casey Fatchett: It's a hard hill to climb, but I'm I'm trying.
24:26
Vicky Thompson: Okay, I'm I'm rooting for you.
24:31
Casey Fatchett: Going back to okay, sorry to shift gears
24:34
there, but like oh no, okay. You talked about how you feel like
24:39
things have gotten easier a little bit over time. How has
24:42
the reaction changed over the course of your career, or does
24:48
it still happen the sort of same way we were talking about, like
24:50
the double takes and people questioning you being in these
24:54
spaces? Do you feel that that has? How has that changed over
24:58
the years, or is it? Do you feel like it's still the same?
25:02
Vicky Thompson: I think it's gotten a lot better over the
25:03
years. I've seen even myself. I've seen a lot more black
25:08
photographers. If I go to events or if there's anything that has
25:14
photographers in it, I have seen more black photographers. So I
25:16
see that that more of us are getting into it. More more black
25:20
people are getting into photography, and so I think it's
25:26
it's becoming not as an anomaly as it was before. Like even my
25:33
my kid my kid my my oldest kid is actually in she's an HBCU and
25:39
she is surrounded by black people all the time, and she's
25:44
she's actually looking into doing sports photography
25:48
herself. And she has mentors that are black sports
25:53
photographers. So for her, that's that's the norm. That's
25:58
the norm for her.
25:59
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's just very different,
26:01
Vicky Thompson: right? Exactly. So she she's seeing them in that
26:05
in that field, and so I think the more we see more and more of
26:09
us in those type of fields, it's uh it won't be so it won't it
26:15
won't be something that's that's not normal. I think it's
26:18
becoming a lot more normal now.
26:19
Casey Fatchett: It won't seem out of the ordinary. It's it's
26:21
interesting. I think that like in my like I mostly do or have
26:28
over the years as a business person, I mostly have covered
26:32
weddings and events for like 26 years. Oh
26:37
Vicky Thompson: wow, that's a long time. Oh yeah, 900
26:39
Casey Fatchett: weddings. Oh Oh
26:41
Vicky Thompson: wow, wow! I'm sure you've seen a lot change.
26:45
Yes, go ahead. I'm sorry. No, no,
26:47
Casey Fatchett: I've seen a lot change. But like, it's
26:49
interesting because there's there are black wedding
26:54
photographers, and they tend to do like it's there's not a lot
26:57
of crossover in my experience. I have done some black weddings.
27:02
I've done a lot of mixed weddings, but it's and I've had
27:07
this discussion with other black wedding photographers and like
27:12
knowing like and asking them what they think it is. It's
27:17
knowledge of like skin tone. It's knowledge of like how to
27:20
light people, and because you learn a lot of the times, you
27:23
learn how to light people who look like you, and that having a
27:29
lot to do with it. But it's what I'm seeing is thankfully more
27:36
and more black wedding photographers handling all sorts
27:40
of events, and I'm happy with, very happy with that. You don't
27:45
have to hire me as your wedding photographer. I've like I do
27:48
know how to light you, but like I'm like I my clientele is not
27:54
based on like making sure that I am there to cover, you know, X Y
27:59
Z. I people come to me for specifically the emotion of the
28:06
photos that I capture. Okay, so I get all sorts of people, but
28:12
I'm really glad to see that it has the doors have somewhat
28:17
opened up, allowing like more black wedding photographers to
28:21
having a wider range of clientele.
28:28
Vicky Thompson: Okay, that that's great to hear.
28:30
Casey Fatchett: But do you think that the moments like that that
28:34
you've experienced have shaped the way that you approach
28:40
walking into the room, like does it make you more deliberate?
28:44
Like you've mentioned, do you kind of like prepare yourself
28:46
for it to happen, like being a little guarded, or do you know
28:49
like is that the only way it's affected you, or do you think
28:53
that there are like do you just how do you like hype yourself
29:00
up, or are you going into those situations or now? How has it
29:04
changed?
29:06
Vicky Thompson: Honestly, since it's gotten so much better, and
29:10
it's not something I have to deal with, but I do steel myself
29:14
against that. You know, looking for a reaction sometimes. I do,
29:18
you know, steel myself for it, and you know, but what I've had
29:24
to do, basically, I mean, a lot in life is try to be, you know,
29:30
instead of being 100, 100% giving 100 100% I'm I'm arriving
29:34
ready to give 150% because, unfortunately, sometimes people
29:39
will look at my skin tone and say, "Ooh, you may not be, you
29:43
may not be good enough. You know, so I have to, I have to be
29:46
prepared to be not only good enough to be, but to be perfect,
29:52
like perfect times times 100. But even that, it's. It's not as
30:00
prevalent as it as it once was, so it's gotten a lot. It's
30:04
gotten so much easier. It's gotten it's gotten a lot easier.
30:09
Also, in my city, I'm well. I guess maybe not as much now, but
30:17
I was more well known as a photographer because our for our
30:22
city, I live in Sacramento. It's not as big as you know, some
30:27
like San Francisco. But our photography community, at one
30:31
point, we were very, very pretty, pretty tight. And I
30:36
would say I was more well known as a photographer, a
30:39
photographer then, so people could trust trust me.
30:42
Casey Fatchett: I think that it's. I mean, it's interesting.
30:44
Yeah, I'm in the New York area, and I lived in New York for 20
30:48
years, and I'm in New Jersey. But I find that within the
30:54
genre, like within the general photography community, can be
30:57
fairly small, but specifically within any genre of photography,
31:03
it gets like everybody knows each other. Like if you're like
31:06
a wedding photographer in New York, you're like two steps
31:09
removed from somebody else. So it's like you know somebody who
31:13
knows them. Like it's like okay for the most part. Like it's and
31:18
it used to be like if you had if you were second shooting for
31:23
somebody and you were really bad at your job or just had a
31:27
horrible attitude, like people found out, the word spread
31:30
really quickly. Yeah,
31:32
Vicky Thompson: absolutely.
31:33
Casey Fatchett: But I think that just getting the like being
31:40
known, being a known quantity amongst whatever whatever the
31:44
case may be, I think helps you get some of that. I don't know
31:49
confidence in yourself, and also just like respect from other
31:52
people in the industry. Yeah,
31:54
Vicky Thompson: yeah,
31:55
Casey Fatchett: helps
31:55
Vicky Thompson: absolutely, absolutely. And you were talking
31:58
about Social media, it it it it really it really did help with
32:11
becoming familiar with other photographers. And you were
32:14
talking about you know how styles styles earlier a little
32:18
bit earlier, and I would say that, you know, my eye has
32:25
developed, but it's also changed over time. And I would credit
32:30
other photographers with that. Just being being around other
32:35
photographers and seeing how they approach, you know, say
32:40
we're going out landscape shooting, and just seeing how
32:43
watching them and seeing how they approach a particular
32:48
landscape, I would say that has made me maybe you know rubbed
32:52
off on me and made me look at things a little bit differently.
32:55
So I really have to credit other photographers and especially my
32:59
photography community for for just helping me advance in
33:06
photography. People have been so willing to share, and I'm always
33:11
trying. I'm willing to share as well. So if there any anyone
33:15
ever has questions, I try to ask answer any type of questions.
33:19
Everybody's been so just just so, just so nice and kind, and
33:25
that's made a big difference as well.
33:27
Casey Fatchett: Makes a huge difference.
33:28
Vicky Thompson: Yeah,
33:29
Casey Fatchett: You mentioned kind of like other photographers
33:32
like seeing how they approach things. I always like love to go
33:35
to. There's a workshop near me that I can get to, or something
33:39
like I don't want to go there to like copy what they're doing,
33:42
Vicky Thompson: right? Right.
33:43
Casey Fatchett: I want to see how they approach their shot,
33:47
like whether it's a you know a wildlife photographer or fashion
33:54
or portraiture or events or whatever it is. I want to like
33:57
listen to them talk about their process and being like, okay,
34:00
well, this is what I want to capture, so this is why I chose
34:05
this lens because this is the shot. This is the shot that I'm
34:08
going for. Because if I was going for like something else, I
34:10
might choose a different lighting setup, or I might
34:12
choose a different lens, to you know. But like, I use a wide
34:16
angle lens because I want to like I want the person to get
34:18
close to the camera or whatever the whatever their their
34:23
solution to the problem they see,
34:25
Vicky Thompson: right
34:26
Casey Fatchett: Is it like listening to those things and
34:28
like you start to absorb that as opposed to trying to be a copycat?
34:31
Vicky Thompson: Yeah, absolutely. Because if you're a
34:33
copycat, you're really not going to be able to copy what they're
34:35
doing because they have an entire process. Yeah, you know
34:38
that they're that they're trying to that they're going to to to
34:42
achieve their shot. I got to say, you know, and and we during
34:50
I I I don't know why I keep pumping up Instagram, but
34:54
Casey Fatchett: little Meta kickback. You getting kickbacks
34:56
from Meta for this?
34:57
Vicky Thompson: Yeah, yeah, right, right, right. They're
35:00
gonna sign a check to me, but no, I I have to say that
35:04
Instagram opens it opened a lot of doors. It we would have or we
35:10
get together with a bunch of photographers, and we would have
35:14
get together for what we call insta meets, and so we would all
35:18
get together and maybe be sometimes be 10 of us, and we'd
35:22
shoot, do some landscape photography, and one thing-the
35:25
biggest thing I learned from that is there's 10
35:28
photographers, but the way that we looked at a particular scene,
35:33
we all had different photographs, and that kind of
35:36
blew my mind because we're all looking at one scene at one
35:40
point, but the way that we're shooting it, we had 10
35:43
different, totally different photographs, and that I learned
35:48
so much from that about how how all of us are so different. We
35:54
all bring something different.
35:55
Casey Fatchett: Yeah,
35:58
Vicky Thompson: to bring yourself. Yeah, we bring
36:00
ourselves. Right, right. I was just having that conversation
36:03
Casey Fatchett: this morning with somebody who's like, you
36:05
know, it's you. Like you're the secret ingredient to everything.
36:08
Vicky Thompson: Right, right. That's a good, yeah. In every
36:10
creative
36:12
Casey Fatchett: endeavor, like
36:13
Vicky Thompson: absolutely, absolutely. That's that's a
36:15
great way to put
36:17
Casey Fatchett: it. We just like we all see things differently.
36:20
Vicky Thompson: Yeah, yeah, we do, and that's a that and and
36:24
and that's a tangible, a tangible way to see to see that.
36:29
And
36:29
Casey Fatchett: like we were talking about before, with like
36:31
you know comparing yourself to the best of somebody else, I
36:33
think it's better to have those sorts of eyes. Like there are
36:36
wonderful things about social media that I really love, and
36:39
the ability to connect to people, and like,
36:42
Vicky Thompson: yeah, it
36:44
Casey Fatchett: it's not always about like the likes or the
36:46
follows or the whatever. It's the being able to like actually,
36:50
if you follow somebody and like see the evolution of their work
36:53
or
36:54
Vicky Thompson: oh yeah
36:55
Casey Fatchett: Get some of the behind the scenes and those
36:57
sorts of things, or like being able to communicate. I've talked
37:01
to photographers who probably 10 years ago, like I will never
37:04
speak to that person, and like there's no reason for them to
37:07
talk to me. But like have had been able to have through DMs or
37:10
whatever had an actual conversation with someone of
37:13
being like, so when you're taking this picture, and it's
37:16
it, I I always try to like choose a a real deep cut if I'm
37:19
like talking about anything. So I'm not going with the most
37:22
popular photo somebody's ever taken. I'm going with something
37:25
that just specifically resonated with me and be like, "What were
37:29
you thinking when you were doing this? It's like, "Oh, okay. That
37:32
I think that gets people's attention more than be like,
37:35
"It's not like I'm going to go to Annie Leibovitz and being
37:38
like, 'Oh, this Vogue cover you shot,
37:41
Vicky Thompson: Right, that really stuck
37:43
Casey Fatchett: out to me. Yeah, everybody's saying it. It's
37:46
really famous,
37:48
Vicky Thompson: right, right. But
37:50
Casey Fatchett: yeah, finding those ways to communicate with
37:52
people you might not never meet geographically, you might be
37:55
removed from them, or you know whatever reasons you can.
37:59
There's still a way to bring the social back to social media,
38:02
like that's that's something that we can use it for. That is
38:08
that's it.
38:09
Vicky Thompson: That's it. Yeah, there is a lot about social
38:11
media that isn't social, but I do think that photography it it
38:20
really connects with people sometimes on that level, and it
38:24
makes them feel, you know, that it makes them feel closer to
38:28
you, or that they know you a little bit better. I've had
38:31
people tell me that because because one thing I try to do is
38:39
during my every everyday life, everyday work. I try to find
38:42
something a little interesting and maybe snap a photo of it,
38:45
and I put it up on my stories just to say, okay, because I'm
38:48
always in a different area every day, different city every day.
38:52
And I've had people tell me like, you make something
38:55
ordinary that we we may walk by every day. You make it look
38:59
interesting, and so just being able to have that connection
39:03
with people, it has been it has been really it has been very
39:07
lovely. Yeah, I've I've liked that.
39:10
Casey Fatchett: I think that that's also a lesson for
39:12
photographers that you can find something interesting to
39:14
photograph. Like it may not seem like it's interesting, but you
39:18
can make a story out of it. You can make a like a make this
39:21
interesting, and if you just think about it, I think that's
39:25
the problem. Is like, and one of the issues that I have with
39:28
social media is people just like get chasing the engagement, like
39:34
feed, like dopamine feedback. Like I just want people to like
39:36
it and comment on it, and not taking the chance to experiment
39:40
on something and being like, I'm going to show this work and like
39:43
that-that is totally me, as opposed to like chasing some
39:46
trend. Absolutely, yeah, yeah.
39:50
Vicky Thompson: Because if you know, if you get say you get
39:53
1000 likes, most of the time people are just you know liking
39:56
something really quickly. They'll they'll come across
39:58
it'll come across their feed and they're liking it. So that's
40:00
1000 people, okay, but maybe there's something that you shot
40:05
and you get one person that it really just made their day,
40:10
Casey Fatchett: yeah.
40:11
Vicky Thompson: And they they send you a message and say, you
40:12
know what, this like this this photo just I was in a bad place,
40:17
and this photo just made my day, and it just made everything seem
40:20
brighter. I mean, to me, that that means so much more than the
40:24
likes, the engagement. It it just means it it just it it
40:29
means a lot more. I mean, that's the reason why I'm still like on
40:32
Instagram. You know, a lot of people have complained about it
40:35
that much, but that's one of the reasons why I'm still there.
40:38
It's just to be able to actually engage instead of getting
40:42
engagement.
40:43
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's the I agree with you. Like I've
40:46
received those messages for various reasons, but when you
40:49
get that from somebody and they say like, "Oh, this you know
40:54
brightened up a dark day, or like something, you just like
40:57
that's why I'm doing this.
40:59
Vicky Thompson: Right, that's why I'm doing this? This is like
41:01
like the whole point
41:03
Casey Fatchett: of creating things is to like shine some
41:07
light in the darkness and yes make people yes
41:10
Vicky Thompson: yes
41:11
Casey Fatchett: like enjoy being here like for whatever reason right
41:16
Vicky Thompson: I try to in life basically I try to lead with
41:19
positivity so I think that actually comes through in my
41:23
photography as well, especially you know when I'm just
41:27
photographing something on a on a something ordinary on a daily
41:31
basis. I try to bring out bring a way of just of of shedding a
41:35
light on just something that's that can be positive instead of
41:39
you know leading with negativity. We see so much
41:43
negativity in the world today. Like, let's let's lighten things
41:47
up a little bit.
41:48
Casey Fatchett: You mentioned like, if people have questions
41:51
for you, like you happy to answer them, and sort of like
41:54
guiding people through this because you've received guidance
41:58
from other photographers. Do you feel
42:00
Vicky Thompson: absolutely
42:01
Casey Fatchett: a responsibility to make it easier for like the
42:05
next black female photographer who walks into the room after
42:10
you. Like, do you feel like you that it's part of what you need
42:15
to do? Like to
42:16
Vicky Thompson: yeah, absolutely, absolutely, 1,000% I
42:19
feel a responsibility. I want to. I want things to be easier
42:25
for the next the next black female photographer that's
42:28
coming up. I don't want them to have to experience some of the
42:32
the negativity that I've had to experience. I want them to just
42:37
have to focus on photography instead of focusing on some of
42:42
the nastier things that come with it. You
42:46
Casey Fatchett: have you. I mean, you mentioned your
42:47
daughter wants to be a sports photographer. Like you, you
42:50
talked about your experiences with her and like how to.
42:52
Vicky Thompson: Yes, absolutely. I have told her like I've told
42:58
her all the negativity that I've experienced. Just because I want
43:01
her to be prepared, I want her to know that this is the
43:05
possibility. Right now, she's at a HBCU, and so she's she's kind
43:13
of in a cocoon, I would say, of what what her experience as a
43:17
photographer is when she's when she's photographing, when she's
43:21
photographing, she's with people just like her. But when she is
43:27
done with college and goes out into the world, she's going to
43:29
experience. She's not going to have that cocoon, per se. But I
43:35
do want to prepare her and let her know that you're going to
43:39
face negativity sometimes. Just people are gonna look at you and
43:44
have a judgment, which is unfortunate, but it's it's true,
43:47
and it and it does seem like it's it's not going to be as
43:51
prevalent as it was with me, you know, over these over these
43:55
years. But I do want her to know that it's a possibility. I just
44:00
want her to be prepared.
44:02
Casey Fatchett: That's, I mean, I mean, that's all you can
44:05
really do. I mean, what, right? What is your personal hope that
44:08
is different for her? And I mean, you mentioned that other
44:13
your other children are interested in photography as
44:15
well.
44:16
Vicky Thompson: My other no, my other daughter is not interested
44:18
at all in photography. So, so my my oldest daughter, she actually
44:26
started photography actually pretty young. She was probably
44:29
about 10, maybe even younger than that. When she started
44:33
photography, I would take her with me on on the insties that
44:36
we would have with other photographers, and she learned a
44:40
lot from other photographers. I mean, some of them would let her
44:44
use their equipment, which was kind of expensive, and I never
44:47
wanted her to drop anything. But they were always so open and and
44:52
so and just so kind with with you know giving her knowledge.
45:01
And so she she became interested in it. She did when she became a
45:06
teenager. She didn't really like photography as much, but I got
45:11
to say, COVID hit, and she was out of school, and she so she
45:16
started picking it back up then, and she just she just fell in
45:19
love with photography all over again, she got a rush from it.
45:22
So when she went to school, she she that's what she wanted to
45:27
do, and she started photographing her school sports
45:33
teams, and she absolutely absolutely loves that, and she
45:37
absolutely loves it, and I I think the future is bright. I
45:43
mean, the future is bright for for her, for for for the young
45:49
that are coming up. Not even just other black photographers.
45:54
Like for other other for people of all races. I think they're
45:59
coming up in a world that's that's not so limiting now, and
46:04
so I'm I'm very excited to see the world that they're creating.
46:08
Casey Fatchett: I'm curious. I just
46:08
Vicky Thompson: want to leave it better for
46:10
Casey Fatchett: I'm curious what you think, okay? Because I've
46:13
I've over the last few years been been interviewed and like
46:18
had all these conversations about like trends among younger
46:22
people, like your daughter's age. Yeah, they're buying up all
46:26
the point and shoot cameras.
46:28
Vicky Thompson: Yeah, they do that because
46:30
Casey Fatchett: they don't want stuff that's connected to the
46:31
internet, and they also there's the it's one reason because it's
46:35
just like you know your life is, but it's also it doesn't have
46:39
all the filters and stuff in it. Right, they're they're sort of
46:42
nostalgic for the cameras that we used when we were kids. Like
46:47
they're like film shooting has gone way up. Yes, yes,
46:51
Vicky Thompson: yeah.
46:51
Casey Fatchett: Because they want something that looks real,
46:54
like it looks like what's on the other side of the camera, and
46:56
not like hasn't been gone through like filters or
47:00
Vicky Thompson: right, right.
47:01
Casey Fatchett: It feels more real to them. I don't know if
47:05
that's what you're getting any of that from from your daughter.
47:09
Vicky Thompson: Yeah my my yeah. My for the last couple of years,
47:12
she has she has she has a film camera, and I was I was
47:16
absolutely flabbergasted. Not even gonna lie, I was
47:19
flabbergasted when she first got it because she did, especially
47:23
when she's doing stuff with her friends or or doing events with
47:27
her friends. She likes to use the film camera just to capture
47:30
moments and get that film developed. So I think it it is a
47:34
trend among the young that that that's something that they that
47:38
they have a really they have a interest in, and it's not just
47:42
photographers per se. Some of her friends as well have these
47:46
film cameras and or like the Polaroid cameras. It's kind of
47:49
it's kind of neat to see see them make a resurgence.
47:53
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's a there's a whole like, and I read
47:56
this. The other strange thing about it for me is you know as
47:59
someone like who shooting film? Like I want my negatives. There
48:03
was a whole article in the New York Times that like only like
48:06
30% of the people who are shooting film now pick up their
48:08
negatives. Oh, because a lot of a lot of the like younger
48:13
photographers they're just taking they're getting the scans
48:16
back that are sent to them, like emailed to them, and then they
48:21
don't go and pick up the negatives,
48:24
Vicky Thompson: the actual physical negative. Oh wow!
48:26
Casey Fatchett: Because they just like if they're going to
48:28
print something, they print it from the the scan and whatever.
48:32
Like for me, I'm like I don't want to pay for the scans. I'm
48:35
going to scan it myself. I mean, I just go back and get the
48:37
negatives and like go through my scanner and do like a really
48:40
high resolution scan, and not pay the extra $15 for to scan
48:46
that roll of film. But yeah, they're coming up with like,
48:49
especially in New York, they're having issues with storage.
48:52
There's just like so many, like they've now implemented a if
48:56
it's been here for more than six months, we're like we can throw
48:59
it out. Oh wow! It's part of their like agreement now because
49:04
they have so many people who are just like not picking stuff up,
49:08
and they can't store all the negatives anymore. Which is one
49:11
of those things that makes me so sad.
49:14
Vicky Thompson: Yeah, I can't imagine throwing negatives away.
49:17
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I can't. I can't. Like I've got like
49:20
there's whole shelves back here full of like negative full
49:25
binders and stuff. I can see the look on your face, and you're
49:29
just like, you feel the same way I do.
49:34
Vicky Thompson: I can't even perceive this, but I guess it
49:36
makes sense for them because they really only care about the
49:40
scans and being able to store them digitally.
49:43
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, but
49:45
Vicky Thompson: it kind of hurts me that they don't-they're
49:49
getting rid of the negatives. Wow! Yeah, I mean, because
49:51
there's
49:52
Casey Fatchett: a there's so much you can do with the
49:53
negative when you have it. Also, it's just like you you you own
49:57
it. Like that is your thing. That is your work. What you
50:01
created, and I'm also super romantic about like film in the
50:04
sense of like you know that is a little bit of the energy of
50:07
whatever you photographed is like trapped in that negative.
50:11
Right, it is like there's just there's something there. Like
50:14
there's you know also a physics degree. It's a you know you want
50:19
to like all these things that you know happened chemically,
50:24
right?
50:24
Vicky Thompson: Right, right, right.
50:26
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, and I, but I also think of like Vivian
50:28
Mayer, who's like just stored all of her negatives and didn't
50:30
get them developed.
50:33
Vicky Thompson: Yeah, yeah
50:35
Casey Fatchett: And then we discovered her work. Like, what
50:37
if somebody's like, you know, I, I, I talk to people like, you
50:40
gotta print stuff, you got to print things because
50:42
Vicky Thompson: oh yeah
50:44
Casey Fatchett: I think about like 20, 30, 40, years from now,
50:46
people are going like, well, you know, what are we going to be
50:49
doing? Like looking through somebody's camera roll on their
50:52
phone? Like no, you don't know what's going to happen in 40 years,
50:56
Vicky Thompson: right? Exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've
51:01
I I print out a lot of my stuff, and actually my my daughter my
51:04
daughter does as well. And so she likes she actually likes
51:08
physically having the prints. She can relive the moments as
51:13
well, but she also likes making photo books out of them. So it's
51:21
I'm glad that she sees the value in that.
51:24
Casey Fatchett: If there's one thing that you could teach her
51:29
or pass along to her or to any younger photographer, what would
51:37
it be like? What would that be? Like, if there's like you know,
51:39
or is that mindset of like printing things out, or what
51:43
would be the the one piece of it you know that kernel is going to
51:47
stick? Like, what would that be?
51:50
Vicky Thompson: I would say, and it's only because of my own
51:54
experience, but I would say photography, the world of
51:59
photography, it's really a community. We can learn so much
52:04
from each other. I have learned so much from other
52:08
photographers. If I have a question, I can reach out to
52:12
someone. If they don't know the answer, they they'll find the
52:16
answer for me. But I would say, be willing, be open, and willing
52:21
to share. It's I've seen a lot about photography as a
52:28
competition, and I really don't see it that way. I don't. I
52:32
don't. I don't subscribe to that. We're we're all here on
52:37
this earth. We can see things differently, and photography is
52:43
really, at the end of the day, you know, at its most basic, it
52:47
is how we see the world, and we all are bringing something
52:52
different. Like you said earlier, it's really, it's
52:57
really a kaleidoscope. So, what basically, I know this is a
53:00
long-winded answer, but but what I would want her to teach her is
53:03
basically bring kindness and into this community. Just be
53:10
open and willing to share. You don't lose anything by by
53:16
sharing, helping another person.
53:25
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55:26
Hey hey! And now for my favorite part of the show, what's that
55:32
say? Useless information. This is always death.
55:37
Vicky Thompson: Okay.
55:38
Casey Fatchett: True or false? Tigers and zebras have unique
55:43
stripe patterns, like each tiger, each
55:48
Vicky Thompson: True
55:49
Casey Fatchett: correct
55:50
Unknown: True. I have photographed tiger and zebras.
55:54
Casey Fatchett: They're like a a human fingerprint.
55:57
Vicky Thompson: Fingerprint, absolutely yes.
56:01
Casey Fatchett: And another side of that is a lot of people go
56:04
like, "Oh, how camouflaged is a tiger? Is bright orange,
56:08
whatever. It's actually looks green to most animals because
56:13
they don't have the rods and cones in their eyes to detect
56:17
orange, so they actually blend in super well to other animals.
56:22
Oh wow!
56:23
Vicky Thompson: Okay, I did not know that. Okay,
56:26
Casey Fatchett: you learned something today, Vicky. Thank
56:30
you so much for being on the show with me. I really
56:34
appreciate you spending the time with me to talk. Where can
56:37
people find you?
56:40
Vicky Thompson: Okay, my website website would probably be the
56:43
best place to go. photosbyvicky.net, and I have
56:47
links to my social media from there.
56:51
Casey Fatchett: I will put those links, both your Instagram and a
56:54
link to your website, in the episode notes so that people can
56:58
find them. They don't have to like search around; they can
57:00
just go right into the episode notes and click, and then
57:02
finally check out the website. Again, Vicky, thank you so much
57:06
for coming on.
57:07
Vicky Thompson: Thank you so much. I really appreciate this.
57:09
I'm glad we finally made it happen.
57:11
Casey Fatchett: Absolutely.
57:21
And welcome back. I hope you found my talk with Vicky
57:24
Thompson enlightening and entertaining. Many thanks to
57:28
Vicky for coming on the show. Be sure to go to the episode notes
57:33
and click on Vicky's links. Give her a follow, and be sure to
57:37
subscribe to the podcast if you don't already. And you know
57:42
what? You should also leave a review. Why? Because they're
57:46
actually very helpful for us to reach new listeners for
57:50
independent podcasts like this, so there, do that, and then
57:54
follow us on social media at the Nerdy Photo on where on pretty
57:59
much every social media platform, the main ones for
58:02
sure, at the Nerdy Photo. That's the Nerdy Photo, no dots,
58:07
underscores, or dashes. And until next time, stay safe and
58:11
stay nerdy. I'm still here, you guys. In case anybody was
58:15
wondering, I can't see any of you.
58:20
Unknown: You better start. Let's go there. Who's your heart been
58:23
beating about? You better, you better, you better, you better.
58:27
Listen.