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Reimagine Running | Interview with Jamie McDonald S1E30 · Reimagine Running

• Jamie McDonald: running changes everything. I genuinely wanted to create an atmosphere that anyone could walk through our doors and they felt welcome and when they said I'm slow, I'm like, I'll be right back there with you and I will run in the back with you because I am slow too you ran a marathon, whether it was two hours or five hours, like you still did it. And so that's kind of been my goal in and in my position with Fleet Fee as the operating partners to make sure that we create this very inclusive community. But also for my own life, like that building those relationships and I thrive on seeing people accomplish their goals and do something hard and cross the finish line. I think that's probably the most inspiring thing you can watch is someone cross the finish line and accomplish something that they've been working so hard for. Coach Ryan Head: Running is a strange thing. Some people find it on the sidewalk at sunrise. Some find it deep in the mountains chasing daylight. And some of us find it when life feels heavy and running is the only thing that makes sense. For some, starts with the 5k. For others, it's a marathon. And for a few, it's a hundred miles that changes everything. But somewhere between the first step and the finish line, something happens. Running stops being about pace or distance or medals. It becomes about purpose. I'm your host Ryan Head. And this is Reimagine Running, the podcast dedicated to talking about why we run. Each episode, we'll sit down with runners from every background, trail runners, road runners, beginners, veterans, and talk about their journey. Not just where they've run, but why they run. Because for many of us, running didn't just change our fitness. It helped us find clarity, healing, discipline, hope, and sometimes even ourselves. Whether your why was born on a short loop around the block or somewhere deep inside a long, lonely mile. This podcast is for you. Welcome to re-imagine running. Ryan Head: All right everybody, welcome back to Reimagine Running, the podcast talking about why we run. Alright, guys, this is an episode that has been requested by multiple people in community up here in Utah. I'm excited. This is gonna be a fun episode. I think not just for myself, but also for our guests, and for all of you to listen to. well, first off, why I wanted to bring them on is I've been very fortunate, especially when I was really early on in running. to get to know this individual and they have they've played a big part in my running journey as well as many others in this area. Now when I tell you that she is also the director over all the Fleet Feet stores in Utah you're gonna be like okay we're you know he's talking about just you know gear shoes stuff no it goes so much deeper than that and you guys will hear that in this episode because I've been fortunate and just very Blessed in my life to get to know Jamie McDonald and just the impact that she's had on me. I mean, from the moment I met her, really, I mean, I've known her for a little bit longer, knew of her as well, but it was like 2019 where we got to kind of know each other. went through the pandemic with all the running stuff, and then you know, coming out the backside of that and just helping develop this community, she has played a huge part in this. sometimes I have people tell me, and again, I know if you're from out of state. you don't know all the details. And again, our out of state reach is starting to get bigger, which is so amazing. But we have a great following here in Utah. And so, you know, a lot of people always say, Well, Ryan, it's it's your running club that you've started. It it really isn't. there has been some really important players to this, as I've mentioned before, like Tim Cotterow, Joe, Micah. Some of these people have played a very big part to this, as well as the Octan Marathon. They've played a very huge part in getting a lot of this put together, but I would say single-handedly, probably the most important, Probably the number one person who's really helped drive this has been Jamie. And I've just been fortunate to have her in my corner for many years now. she knows I'm I'm just excited to see where the future takes us with running. So anyways, I'll stop We'll turn it over. Welcome to the podcast, Jamie. Jamie McDonald: thank you so much. What so many nice things you say. But well, thank you. Ryan Head: yeah, well it's all true. It's all true. Jamie McDonald: It's been yeah, I was like thinking back when you were talking about when we first met and I think when I was starting to get the running groups going back in gosh, I've been doing this for so long. I really started in two thousand seventeen to try and get and it wasn't until I met you that we really found the like the ground and started running with it. Literally. Ryan Head: Yeah, no. Yeah, no, literally. I remember Jamie McDonald: Mm. Ryan Head: I just remember one of our neighbors, Maren, if she ever listens to this, she she was like, Hey, we're hiring for a r like a runner and I was like, What? And she's like, No, you gotta Jamie McDonald: Ha ha. Ryan Head: do you just gotta go talk to Jamie. This might work out for you. And it thanks to her, it really blossomed into the relationship we've had and and the you know, really starting the running club and you know, we'll get to this, but the early days of the running club were really bad, like really pathetic. It was me and two friends, like that was it. That's all That ever showed up, and you know, if you follow me on social media, you follow Fleetfeet, you'll see that we're routinely now getting 40-50 people, sometimes 60, maybe even more people showing up, and it's just ballooned into this amazing community. So it's awesome. So awesome. Well, before we really dive into it with you, Jamie, as always, I I was joking with Jamie at the start. I was like, maybe we should let you do the shout-out, but If you guys have any needs, whether gear, nutrition, shoes, go see Jamie right here over Jamie McDonald: Yeah. Ryan Head: at one of the stores or her wonderful people. They'll get you taken care of. Again, if you have any needs, if you have any coaching needs, we have rolled out a new program this year as well for all kinds of different distances. We're also the coaching program for the Ogden Marathon. If you have any needs with running, come see us. Even if it's walking, you're just looking for shoes for work, you're on your feet all day, come see us. See us, we'll get you taken care of. They've got a foot scanner, just come on in, they'll get that taken care of for you immediately. So, anyways, Jamie, again, very honored to have you. This is gonna be a great episode. I'm so excited. As I kick off every episode, it's kind of the twists I throw into this with everybody. And I'm sure you're like, right, my life has been two different things for the last 20 years. but tell us something outside of running that you're passionate about. obviously it doesn't have to be running or or running the running. store. and I have an idea what what it probably the other one is, but I'll let you decide what Jamie McDonald: Whoo. Ryan Head: is something else you're passionate about in life outside of outside of running. Jamie McDonald: how's that every I mean that's a good question. Good question. dancing, dance, cheer. Actually cheerleading is kind of how I got into this whole fiasco of running. being a cheerleading coach. I cheered in high school and I love to perform. I like to get on stage. I that was my favorite part about cheer cheerleading is getting on stage and performing. And and then developing that those coaching skills and learning how to adapt to other people and get motivated and keep you know, driven for whatever activity we were doing, whether it was cheering at a game or performing on stage or doing a competition, like I just found passion in coaching with people. And that's kind of how I somehow got into this running community is because a past cheerleader of mine, you know, I ran into her on an airplane one day and she says we're looking for a manager. Back then it was Striders and and we're looking for a manager at Striders and I'm like, I think I could do that. Like I work out every day, I I run every day. Like I'm not I never considered myself like this runner, but I was like, I think I could do that and I I've worked in retail for my entire adult adult life and so I thought, you know, I have that background and that skill. I know how to run a business and I I was so excited to like jump into this and find something new, but it all started with cheerleading and coaching. So but what were you now Ryan Head: That's awesome. Jamie McDonald: I'm like now I'm like, where did you what did you think I was gonna say? Ryan Head: I You know, the one thing I know about you, there's a lot of things I know about you, obviously. We're friends, we talk, we've text, we've you know, all kinds of stuff over the years. But the one thing that I know you're very passionate about is your passion about being a good mom. that is something, I know as you've talked about your daughter and just the relationship you guys have and you know the stuff I've seen on social media, I know you're super passionate about it. And and a lot of people I know they'll come on and they're like, well, I'm passionate about my family. And I get it. I love hearing that kind of stuff because I'm the same way. I love my family. A lot of times I'm like, I get it. Most of us are that way, but what's something else outside of outside of family that we're like super passionate about? But to you, it just I always feel like it means a little bit more because I think at times it's been you by yourself really, you know, running the ship and and getting things going. But to be a single mom and to raise a wonderful daughter who has been just she's an awesome person, as well as you know, running stores and really trying to be a good person in society and you're kind hearted. I mean it it it's just not I don't think that's easy. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong and maybe you're like, no, Ryan, it's easy, but I think you you've just done a fantastic job Jamie McDonald: No. Ryan Head: of it, and she is, you know, I think she feels loved. I'm sure she would say that if she was here and and you've just raised her to be this amazing person and you know and having her go forward. And I'm sure there's letdowns like any any of our kids and you know family members and all that. But I just I know you're passionate about that. And it's something that I have seen over the years and I've just always thought it was really cool about you. Jamie McDonald: thank you. I am passionate about it and and being single mom has been b by far the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life. And Charity's biological father decided at you know that before she was born that he wasn't going to be a part of her life. And so I really have done this parenting thing alone. However, I have had community and family and I couldn't have done it without the people around me. Like the neighbors calling them up to, you know, can you pick up Charity from daycare and you can you take her here and pair up from dance and I've always made sure that Charity never felt that I was a single parent. Like she's always been involved in sports and dance and she did office last year and my pocketbook ac absolutely fills it and I definitely did never I never wanted her to fill that and she has been I mean we're in a new phase of life because I have now she's eighteen, I don't know how to parent an 18-year-old and unlike Ryan Head: Ha ha. Jamie McDonald: I the like for the last 18 years years my whole life has been around charity and I think that's why I've worked so hard in my career and what I do is so that I could provide for my daughter and give her the best life I possibly could and and now we're in this new phase of life where I'm like, so now what? Ryan Head: I love it. Jamie McDonald: Like I need to find some new hobbies because if I wasn't working and doing work things, I I was at one of Charity's basketball games or a lacrosse game or whatever activity Charity had going on. So it is definitely but thank you for saying that because I do value my relationship with my daughter so much and teaching her to be a strong, independent young woman, which I think right now she's like rolls her eyes at me 'cause I'm like, Hey, we need to do this and we have to do this and we're gonna start paying bills so you know how to finance and she's like, Mom, I'm just a kid. I'm like, no, we've gotta be strong and and so sh I'm like I said, sh she rolls her eyes at me, but one day she's gonna look back and be like, I'm so thankful that I hope she does that I I pushed her to be a strong independent woman, that we don't need anyone to take care of us. We want a partner and we want someone to be there with us, but ultimately we can we can do it. So hopefully Ryan Head: Yeah. Jamie McDonald: I've given her that good example. So Ryan Head: I think you have for sure. And I think it's really cool to to hear you say that 'cause you have been a good example of that and you know, and and truthfully, like in a lot of ways that's like I've tried it I even though I'm I'm a male and I'm a dad, I've hope my daughters have kind of followed that same example that you've set and that you are because I'm like, listen, like you know, at the end of the day you're the only person it's like when I do my hundred milers and this is just another one of those correlations to life with running is like at the end of the day No one else is getting me across the finish line on a hundred miler besides myself. Like I no one can pick me up, no one can pull me, no one can push me. I have to do it myself. And so at the end of the day, yes, we can have people support us and we can have people, be there to you know encourage us, but at the end of the day, it it really does come back down to you. I mean, the buck stops at each one of us when it comes to our lives and how much do you want it. And so you've done a great job of that. And I really I've seen that personally. So it's just been it's been awesome to see. Jamie McDonald: Thank you. Ryan Head: So, well, as I kind of mentioned, Jamie McDonald: Thank you. Ryan Head: I'm excited about this episode because it's gonna be a little bit different. it's still gonna be about running, but like I talked about from the get-go, Jamie has played a huge part in the running community and how she has been instrumental in not only getting races, a lot of races to where they're at, but helping create groups, getting many people into running. And so I really like I usually do with everybody. It might just be a little bit of a twist on that question. But when did I know you kind of alluded to it where you're like, well, you know, it was, you know, I got this job because of a former cheerleader that I, you know, I helped coach and all that. But I guess I'll take it a step further. And maybe it was just a job, or maybe it wasn't. Maybe you're no, I was always passionate about this. But when did it become this running thing become more than just a job, right? And again, maybe it's you running too, or maybe you're no, it's really really about supporting the community. When did that become important to you to where you're like, you know what, Ryan? I want like, because right now, seriously, I think you're a staple in the running community. I think you're amazing. I think a Jamie McDonald: Thank you. Ryan Head: lot of us think this. That I'm not the only one that believes this. And it's like you are so instrumental in making tons of stuff happen. So because no one works as hard as you do if they don't give a crap, right? Like let's just be honest. Like it's I'm a I'm working HR professionally. I know this But anyways, yeah. So when did it become more than just a job to you? Jamie McDonald: Yeah. I mean that's a really good question. And I think there's like I can think of so many things that I was like, my gosh, this this is my love and this is my love. But honestly it happened at the fit bench when I was like sizing a customer. I can't tell you how many people I've helped over the last decade that tell me their story. Like it's crazy how much people will tell you, when you're fitting them for shoes. And And when I the first couple years I worked there, I like just hearing people's running stories because I've always been into running. Like running was always part of my workout regimen. Like and coaching. When I coached high school cheerleading, I I coached at Layton High for a handful of years. We ran every single day. I believe in the fitness part of it, I believe in the endurance part of it. It's good for the mind. It's good for the soul. I've always thought of it as a great tool for us to stay healthy. I didn't fully understand what it did for our our minds and our brains fully until I started working and fitting people. And there's one in particular moment that I had with someone, a customer, that I was like, Okay, maybe there's more to this, a little bit more to this, but she was not very nice to me. Like I was treating her like everyone else and she was grumpy and she was having a bad day or something and I just remember being like, my gosh, like calm down. Like she is she just wasn't very nice. She was very short. very one word answers and I was trying to get to know what her running needs were, like what are we running for? And it was like just just for me. Like very short answers. And when I took her up to the register and was checking her out, I asked her if she was interested in a pair of running socks and she snapped at me and said, I don't need running socks. I just need to buy these and leave. And I'm like, Okay, I'm really sorry I said, I'm really sorry. I'm just trying to do my job and she broke down into tears. And I just kind of stood there for a minute and like, what's happening? And she immediately was like, I am so sorry. I just left a courthouse. My husband was just convicted of a pretty serious crime and is going to prison. And she's like, The first thing I can think of is I need to go pick up some new running shoes so I can go start running so I can clear my head. It's my therapy. And I just walked around the co court like the counter and I just hugged her and I'm like, I'm sorry if you don't like hugs, but I'm a hugger and I'm so sorry. that you're going through this. And I am I hope these running shoes help you and I hope that they get you to where you go. And we had ended up having this very nice conversation. I had just gotten divorced and so I was going through some similar you know, feelings, obviously not the same, but some feelings that we just needed to work through some things. And that's when I signed up for my first half marathon, because at this point I had not ran a half marathon in my life. So th here's the second part of it. I ran every day. I worked out every day. I was in the best shape of my life. I went and I was like, didn't train for the half marathon. I'll be fine. This is great. Why not? We we you know, we sponsored the Octo Marathon, we had a free entry. I'll do it. It's fine. And by mile five, I was like, my gosh, I'm gonna die. Like this is awful. And I just remember this guy who was quite a large man, and and watching him run and that guy ran the whole time. And I remember thinking 'Cause he would pass me and then I'd pass him and then he would pass me and then and I kept thinking, dude, if that guy can do it, I like I'm in the best shape of my life. Are you kidding me? Like I can do this. And it we weren't we're not gonna share my time for that because it was ridiculously slow. But it was at that moment that I'm like, people don't really realize how much training and endurance and mind like set you need to to run a race. And I got very emotional when I crossed the finish line because that was really hard. And I had no idea what was coming for me. And so that's where it kind of sparked to start these running groups because I'm a very slow runner and I was always very afraid to go to running groups because I did not want to be the last person. And I'm like, I want to build something that everyone feels included and everyone wants to come. it is something I'm so passionate about. But there's so many factors that go into running that I really fell in love with it because it it's not just running to be fit, Fleet Feet uses a motto, it running changes everything. And it genuinely changes everything. Your mindset, your heart, your your community, your friendships. I've made so many relationships. I mean our relationship, Ryan, I mean, was seriously built on the foundation of running and the community that we've been able to build has been inspiring and I genuinely wanted to create an atmosphere that anyone could walk through our doors and they felt welcome and they didn't feel discluded and like come to our running group and when they said I'm slow, I'm like, I'll be right back there with you and I will run in the back with you because I am slow too and and there's it doesn't matter how fast you run a marathon if you run a marathon. you ran a marathon, whether it was two hours or five hours, like you still did it. And so that's kind of been my goal in and in my position with Fleet Fee as the operating partners to make sure that we create this very inclusive community. But also for my own life, like that building those relationships and I thrive on seeing people accomplish their goals and do something hard and cross the finish line. I think that's probably the most inspiring thing you can watch is someone cross the finish line and accomplish something that they've been working so hard for. And yeah, I mean watching you watch Ryan Head: Yeah. Yeah. No, I okay. Jamie McDonald: like what watching you cross the finish line at Wasatch 100 Ryan Head: So Jamie McDonald: has to be one of my favorite experiences ever. Ryan Head: I'm laughing. I actually appreciate she says this, but there's a Jamie McDonald: Ha ha ha. Ryan Head: reason why I'm laughing so hard. But anyways, go ahead. Sorry, I apologize. Jamie McDonald: Why are you laughing so hard? Ryan Head: I'm laughing because that was the worst year ever. I felt so bad because I still remember We it was funny that you say this. Like, I don't even know why I'm like tearing up about this. Like, it just brings back it brings back Jamie McDonald: Awww. Ryan Head: because I'm I'm only a few weeks out from Wasach again and so I've been just doing a lot of like reflection on my life and just like thinking about that race and just the impact that Wasatch has had on my life. And like you said, I'll dive into a lot of what you said here in just a second, but I want to touch on on this Wasatch experience that you came to. So in in 2024, and by no means am I ever expecting Jamie to be there. She's busy. She's got again she's got a daughter. She's a single parent. She's trying to run stores, not just a store, stores. so she's busy, but she made time And as I've talked about multiple times on on this podcast, twenty twenty four is my my kidney stone year, where I was sick And I don't remember a lot after mile like eighty one. I don't really remember Rock Springs, I don't remember Back when they had the Staten Aid station there at mile 88, 89. I remember getting top of the wall, but then I don't remember Decker. I don't remember any of these eight stations, and it's because I was so sick, I was like not in a good place. And I just still remember I come through the finish line and I can hear Jamie cheering for me as well as my mom. And they're the only two I heard. I couldn't hear anything else. Like I was just in another world. I just checked out, right? And I remember like I was like, this was the hardest thing I've ever done in my whole life. life I think physically and I remember I got to the finish line and I was doing my best to just stay up and I remember you like came over and you're like, How you doing? And you were like really excited to see me and then you're like I could kind of see the look on your face like holy crap Jamie McDonald: Ha ha. Ryan Head: like he's in a really bad place and you're like, Hey come sit down and I'm like Yeah, that sounds like a really good idea. And I remember just setting down because the year before was nothing like this. The year before I was in this happy mood. Everyone's happy. We're all sitting around in a circle at the finish line. This whole cool thing. This year was like, I'm not good. I'm in a really bad place. And my mom has said to me multiple times, why don't you just fall down on the ground and like, you know, and I was like, I was doing everything I could not to do that. I was like, can't make a scene, can't make a scene, because I was like, I feel like I'm gonna blackout. And I came over and I sat down, and you're like, Okay, I'm gonna get you water, what else do you need? And you just like took over and you were just like, I'm gonna get you this, I'm gonna get you this. And you know, obviously my crew at that time had been with me. They had done everything they could. They were maxed out. They didn't, they couldn't do much more. They're just like Ryan, we're just here to get you get through the finish line. But you were like kind of took over. You were like, let me get you some water, let's get you cooled down. And I still remember you saying to me like You were like, dude, within a few minutes you started looking a lot better, but you kinda had me scared. I don't know, what was your thoughts there? I don't know. It was just I'm sorry, this isn't about me, but it's just it's a funny memory with you. It's a good memory with you. Jamie McDonald: No, this is Yeah, like it because it was really inspiring because I I had not known at that time when you crossed the finish line about your kidney issues and all the struggles that you had had, right? And you had this glazed look, like I like I remember I hugged you and I was like, Congratulations, I'm so excited. And you just kinda looked at me and you smiled, but then like there was like nothing in your eyes and I'm like, dude, we gotta get this guy a chair. And I was like trying not to panic, but I also was like it's it was kind of s like it was strange because Ryan Head: It was scary. Jamie McDonald: like your eyes were just kind of glazed over and and I was like immediately like, man, like that was that was kind of terrifying and even when you were you just had a like permanent smile though, like you never stopped smiling, which I will never forget that either 'cause my Ryan was probably in so much pain, which you you I I imagine you are in a an extreme amount of pain, and not feeling well and you smiled the entire time. And I even thought that because your coloring came back because you were pale and your eyes were blank and I was like worried that we got you some food and we got you some water and you had some Gatorade and you started to come back and then you were fine. But even when you were leaving that night you were like just smiling, like happy. And I just was like that was the coolest thing to watch you finish because I knew how struggle and then later you were telling me all the struggles. I'm like how are you still smiling? Like that's incredible. Like I I don't I don't smile when I'm in that much pain. So I I thought it was Ryan Head: I I love it. Jamie McDonald: great. Like and you you do. I've watched you finish a lot of races over the years and you always smile and you always are having a good time and you are always encouraging everyone and I love that energy that you put out there, which is exactly why you're on my team and exactly why you're my friend and you're always like I think that's inspiring, very inspiring. Ryan Head: Well, thank you. That's kind of you. And and you know, it it was definitely an interesting experience and like you said, you were a hundred percent right. I was just like trying to remain positive. I knew a lot of people were very concerned about me. and I was just trying to put on the the biggest smile. I mean s I think it's sometimes in life that's just how it is. Again, another correlation to life is sometimes you have to put on a smile even when you don't want to. And I just was like, I've gotta reassure everyone that I'm okay, even though I'm not. and just make everyone believe that hey, it's gonna be okay. But you saw through it you were like ooh buddy he's there's some really bad stuff happening here so but I do want to just go back just a quickly you said some stuff that really hit deep with me and I I've never heard your story before about when running became more than just a s a job right you've never told me that story I I'm like my gosh it makes so much sense now why you are the way you are. And I'm like, a as I'm hearing this story, and I'm really I hope I I I really hope everyone in the community hears this because and listens to this because hopefully you've learned don't don't skip the first 25 minutes or whatever that is of this episode. Go back. If you haven't listened to it, go back listen to it. You you're gonna want to hear that story. But it tells me a lot about who you are because When stuff is just so bad in life, so many of us will turn to something to bring us comfort. And, you know, this lady comes in and she's had a horrible experience, just and she's like, I don't know what to do. I'm just gonna run and hopefully that helps my problems go away. And I'm sure now all these years later her life's hopefully been a little bit better and she's a happier person and all that jazz. But you were there at that right moment to help her like find something more and to be that person and be kind. And that has been you to a T when I think about everything that you have done over the years. Like I think about, you know, all the relationships you have with, you know, multiple people in the community, with, you know, some people who have frankly just been a jerk to you, to the partnerships that you have. And you you work through it, but you always do it so gracefully. And I think that's the part that's so cool to hear about you and to hear the story because Jamie McDonald: Yeah. Ryan Head: it just tells me like this is. Why you are the way you are, and you're like, okay, like this can bring happiness to people, like this can bring clairvoyance, if you will. This can bring a solace that so many people are looking for in you know in in troubled times and in in their own personal lives, whether it's you know, their personal lives or you know, professional or whatever it is. And and it just it's really cool to hear that from you because I'm like, that is so you, like it is so you, like you are always like, hey, I want to help other people, and then sometimes times when I'm like, dude, you got enough crap on your plate already, but you're still just like I'm here to help other people. So it's just really cool to hear that from you. And and then right then hearing your your first half marathon I dude I know that what you're talking about. I still remember getting I've said this story multiple times on episodes but just the the ladies at walk ran and they destroyed me on my first marathon I was so angry and they were like these 50 year old 60 year old ladies and again no no harm no foul like awesome that they beat me but man I'm telling telling you they just trounced me on the marathon and I was just like there's no way and by mile twenty three they were gone and I never saw them again and I was like I can't believe I got beat and and it's tough but it's really cool to see these inspiring stories to see people out there just going and you're like okay if they can do it I can too like I'm gonna I'm gonna go after it so super cool that you that you share those stories. I really really like that. So take us forward. I I obviously I know we've been talking about more of your impact on the community which has been awesome but I I'd love for you to share any other race stories. I know like even last year you did the Big Cottonwood half marathon. And if our our listeners, if you kn may you know, I'm not even gonna spoil it. I know we've had a few people on who've talked about Big Cottonwood. Why don't you tell us a little bit about Big Cottonwood for those who don't know what this race entails? Jamie McDonald: yeah. It is your niece will love you at the finish line. it's a downhill it's a beautiful race. but it is Pretty much all downhill aside from the last I think what three miles-ish is flat. And you definitely feel that the moment you come out of the canyon and you're you're flat, your your body feels that also. So but I did have one of the best races ever. I think I would have done better if I didn't have I'm sure a lot of women have this issue, you have to pee within the first five minutes. Doesn't matter how many times you peed before you go to the race, but the moment like the first mile, I'm like, how do I already have to pee? And so stopping at some of the retro. It's not my favorite, but but such a great opportunity to run and and perform well and feel pretty good after and I ran into Ryan at the finish line, which was really cool. I didn't even expect to see you at the finish line actually. but that was really fun. But a really cool experience for me. me and my really good friend and co-worker ran it together together. She she left me within the first like mile, also. She I'm like, let's do this together, and then she's like zoop and just left, which was great. But I had the opportunity to see me like so many people that I've know from the running community just like on the course which is so cool because I don't really get to run very many Utah races because I get to work most of them. and so that was really fun for me to be on course and experience the the race with our community with so many of our communic community. But I was I was super proud of how I finished how I felt and after working I worked a full day of the expo the day prior. So I was on my feet all day, didn't eat very well, and had the best time. So that was Ryan Head: That's all. Jamie McDonald: that was a fun experience. Ryan Head: That's awesome. I remember, it was a it was a week after the Wasatch one hundred and I knew I was not gonna be running many miles that weekend. I like, you know, if I do anything it's gonna be maybe like six, seven, eight miles that Saturday. And I like, you know what? I'm gonna go down and just see all my friends. I think I'm just kinda guessing right now, but I think I had like five or six friends running it. And so it was just really fun to come in and I barely miss seeing Tim and I think You had already been in for a while with your friend Jamie. and I was like, dang it, I like missed everybody. I'm like, I wanted to be here to see all come through, and I like missed it barely, and it was all because I went to the old finish line of the big Cottonwood, and I was so mad at myself, and I was like, dude, you knew to just you should have checked the maps. This is what you get for not preparing ahead of time. Anyways, but it was cool to be there to see you come across come through. I remember just being like, my gosh, you like crushed it, like you know, for like all the stuff you've got. Gone through physically all the challenges, all the stuff. Like, you absolutely slayed it. And I was like, holy cow! And so it was fun Jamie McDonald: Thank you. Ryan Head: to just be there for all of you guys and like you know, just be cheering you all on and just be like, This is fun. I like being in this environment. It I I'm not gonna lie, I kind of get like how you feel about being at the finish line for me at Wasatch. Like, I always want to be the one racing on race day, but man, you know, it's kind of nice when you're just like, I'm just here to see y'all come through the finish line. I'm not running today. Like, I just get to see all Jamie McDonald: Yeah. Ryan Head: of you and just cheer you on. And there was something really nice about That when I think back about that. So, one question I have for you. So, you said that was it was that your best half marathon time you've ever had? Jamie McDonald: It was, yes. Ryan Head: What was something you did in your training block or just in general that you felt like helped you be successful on that race? Whether that's your nutrition, well, you kind of already alluded to nutrition wasn't the best before, but whether that was you know the runs you were doing, whether it was strength training, whatever it is, what what would you say would was something that really helped you achieve your best time that you've ever had in a half marathon. Jamie McDonald: well I had a goal set in mind. So, and I knew my pace. So when I was when I was training, I knew what pace was realistic for me. And if I knew if I pushed it too hard that I wasn't going to feel very good and I might crash and have you know, not feel my best. Because I've learned in past races, I'll start out going so strong and feeling so great, and then halfway I'm like, like I'm burnt and it like it it just doesn't end well for me. So I've learned through past experiences that Okay, this is my pace, this is what I know I can do, this is what I'm comfortable with, and I maintained that pace the entire time. Which is why Jamie crushed me because she she went off on her own pace, but I was like, nope, I'm staying back. I I know that this is doable for me. Like I know that this is what I can do. And if if I push a little bit more, that's fine. But I like set myself that goal, like this is what I'm gonna r run at. and I incorporated a lot more strength training. So I think that's one thing that a lot of runners don't that that that's a huge miss for them. and that's when your body really starts to hurt. I have I tibial band issues and after my first couple of half marathons I learned that no matter what I did, my I tibial band was bothering me. And so one of my sports med doctor really encouraged me to work more of my glute muscles and we talked about glute muscles and how to strengthen that so I'm not feeling that while I'm running and I really focused on my strength and I did not have IT band issues that day. So Which was great because I I haven't ever ran a half marathon and not felt it before. I mean, I guess I did a little, but like I was fine. Like I was still walking around where before I was not definitely walking around the way I was. So but really I think the biggest thing I could encourage everyone to do is to make sure that you have a goal in mind and make sure that you practice that goal and like make sure that it is something that is attainable for you. And and if you do better, then great. And I did better than I thought I was going to do, but I knew that If I maintain this pace, I can maintain this pace the entire way and I knew I was gonna be okay. And I trained for it. Ryan Head: Well what? People, there you go. How many times have you heard these exact same things throughout this whole season? Perfect advice, great advice from another runner, from another coach, from you know, our our running leader here in the in the state. I again I hundred percent agree. First and foremost, strength training. I I be I don't want to give it away because you know you you talked about obviously I've had high P band issues as well. I know how to fix it. What did you do to help fix that? Because I've had the same. problem multiple times in my running career and it and I guarantee there is someone listening to this right now that has IT band and if you don't know what it is it is a tendon if you will that runs on the outside of your leg both both legs have them right and it can be so painful if you've never experienced it if you're like I don't know if that's IT band it's not IT ban I promise you but if you've experienced IT Ben it it's painful it hurts like I I don't even know how to explain it it's the only time in my running life I've ever had to be shut down. Like I'm like, I cannot run. Like, trust me, I've run through sprained ankles, I have ran through pet kidney stones, I've ran through wasps things, I've done everything. Nothing scares me. But IT ban, that did shut me down. I'm a h and I had to go to a physical therapist on that one. But yeah, what have you done to to prevent that from happening? Because it is super important. Jamie McDonald: Yeah, a lot of squats and lunges. So really focusing on your glute muscles, and so squats, sumo squats, side lunge, anything to strengthen the outside of the leg also. So a lot of mini band work and doing side to side basically where you put the the band around your knees and and get in a squat and you I'm sure you all know what that is, but really, really focusing in and dialing in on that. And I also forgot to mention that stretching before and after. So like doing some type of dynamic warm up and then stretching after my workouts was like so I implemented a lot more of that too. And I do think that made the combination of all of that really made a huge difference. And but yeah, I cannot stress that enough. Like I'm talking to customers, I'm like, you have to str like use your strength training, cross training whatever it is, and then recover. Like make you have to recover. You have to stretch. You have to roll out. You have to make sure that you're keeping your bodies flu like your body and muscles fluid. If not, they're just gonna tighten up 'cause that's what they do. And that and you're right, I T band, probably one of the worst pains I've ever experienced in my life. Like it's the point where like you lift your leg up to move and it doesn't it doesn't move. Like it's And like when you land again it's i it's excruciating pains and I never wanted to feel that again. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna do everything I can to not feel that pain ever again. And it wouldn't be right of me if I didn't mention the correct footwear also. if you are not wearing the right shoe for you, and not what works for your body, you are gonna definitely feel it also. So I cannot stress that enough. What you put on your feet is the foundation of your running and if you're not wearing the proper footwear for your foot type, it's gonna destroy you. So Ryan Head: Yeah. And and I love that you say that and and I I want to throw this out there to all of our listeners right now. Like you really, really need to if you haven't done this and you're just like I just go buy whatever's on the discount table at whatever running store. I don't care if you're not here in Utah. It go find somewhere. If you're here in Utah, come to Fleet Feet, both locations, Logan and Ogden, or Leighton and Ogden. both have that's funny. I can't believe I messed up there. That's awesome. Okay, what were we? Jamie McDonald: Hey, maybe you're just manifesting a store in Logan, which maybe could happen. Ryan Head: I know exactly, right? Exactly, exactly. But Leighton and Ogden, go go to their store, get your foot scanned. I I tell this to every person ask me, like, hey, I I get asked probably at least weekly, I'm not joking by this, what shoe do you recommend, Ryan and a mic? I don't have any recommendations for you. You gonna go get your foot scanned and then from there I'll tell you what I think has worked for me. But that doesn't mean it's gonna work for you. You really need to go in and they're gonna say, okay, these are the shoes we would recommend based off of what your foot looks like. And I just had a really good dear friend of mine recently just tell me they were like, I went to I forget the name of the place. It's right there in the old Newgate Mall. There's some store that they do like discount shoes and stuff. They went in there and they told me the pair of shoes they got and I don't want to say the name of the brand, you would know exactly what it was, but it was a stability support shoe and I was like, Okay, do you need a I I like I started talking to them and I was like, Do you need a support shoe? And they were kind of like, What's a support shoe? And I'm like, geez. I'm like, okay, I'm like, listen, I really don't recommend you wear this shoe. And they're like, why? I got it for like 30 bucks. And I was like, okay, I know it's a popular brand and I heaven knows I've worn this exact same shoe before but I don't need stability and if you wear stability it could cause major problems for you and like you really need to go in and get your foot scanned and I'm like you know to me running in shoes or like having shoes even if you're just walking around listen if you're just walking around work or whatever like shoes is like a bed In my opinion, you don't skimp on a good bed because you spend a third of your life on this thing. Shoes are the same way. You don't skimp on shoes because you're on shoes all the time. If you skimp on shoes, that's like basically being like, Yeah, I can sleep on the ground every day and I don't really care. Like, you're not gonna do that. Why would you skimp on shoes? Spend the money, get a good pair of shoes. You can skimp on something else. Whether that's the nicest car out there, you don't need the nicest computer. Skimp there, skimp in these other places. You don't skimp on shoes and you Need good socks as well. You skimp there, you're gonna have problems. So I a hundred percent agree with you. I love that you say that because it is super super important. I tell this to every person that asks me, what do you like? Do you like Brooks? Do you like New Balance? Do you like you know whatever? And I'm like, I'm not gonna tell you because you need to go get your foot scanned. So I love that you say that. Super, super smart. Jamie McDonald: Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: anyways, any other thoughts there though? Jamie McDonald: No, I was yeah, no. I just think running shoes, people yeah, y yes you can find cheaper shoes other places. but in my experience and being working for such an amazing company, I've had the opportunity to like go to warehouses where the shoes are manufactured or learn more about the w why the shoe is made that way. And I can say with a hundred percent confidence running shoes and every brand has a story, like a very unique Interesting, like I love that story that is so cool. Like someone had an idea and they flew with it, and I love it. But the innovation of running shoes and the work that goes in behind it and the science as to why they do that and the millions of cameras to film this gate and the to look what the foam does or whatever it is, it's incredible. So I cannot stress enough to like and and you're right, like I I've worked there for 11 years, and I every single year I have a new favorite shoe because of something that's changed or my body. bodies changed and and so when someone's like my friend said that this shoe is the best shoe on the market and I'm like but let's find what's best for you because every single one of my employees in my store we all like something different and we all have an opinion about how it fits and how it feels and the per like you know the production of it or whatever it is so I'll just say that yes you'll pay a little bit more for a running shoe and it is a hundred percent worth it and different running shoes have different purposes so if you do not have the correct shoe You're doing yourself a disservice as well. So that is something I am obviously very passionate about as well. Is I love making sure that the customer gets the correct shoe. Like if their foot hurts or they're having issues, it is like a fun, like let's figure this out. And like I love when I I've seen people that I've helped at the finish line or they'll come over to my booth and say, my gosh, thank you so much for your help. I felt so great. My feet feel amazing, my body feels amazing. and I that like nothing makes me happier and I'm like, Yes, like I'm so glad that it worked for you. Like it's I I truly believe in what we do. So Ryan Head: Yeah. That's super cool. And yeah, and I I totally hear you when you say that because I'm like, there's been shoes you've recommended me as well, and they've just been so good. after you know, getting my foot scanned, you're like, Ryan, this is what you should do, like you're gonna like it, like just just go with trust me on this. And and I've always said again, I I I don't even want to share what my favorite roadrunning shoe is because I don't want any of you out there to be like, Ryan said it, so it's the shoe. Jamie McDonald: Ha ha. Ryan Head: But to me personally, huge fan of the new balance 1080s. I I do everything on the roads with these things outside of race day. But I want to touch on something that Jamie just said, which is really important, is that when you are doing different activities with running, you really should be looking at different types of shoes. And I think that's really important. And I know a lot of this, you know, we we like to talk about people's wise on here and but this is really good information. This is why Jamie has is so valuable and so amazing in the community because this is stuff that she is she has taught me and now I'm teaching other people. and sharing and all this other jazz. But when you do workouts with running, you don't just always do the same shoe, right? If you're like, I want to do speed work, well come get a speed shoe that you can do those workouts. You're you're not meant to run in your speed shoe every day. Me personally, I, you know, there's a couple different shoes I like to run in when I do my speed work. I have a couple of Nikes that I I'm very much in love with. But my daily trainer on roads is not a Nike shoe. It is like I said a new balance. When I run my races, I usually run in the Alpha Fly It is my shoe. It's what I love to run in. But that's not what everybody chooses to do and and same with my trail shoes. My trail shoes vary for many different reasons. If I'm doing speed work on the trails, I'm usually wearing some Solomon gravel shoes. If I'm doing long hard efforts, it's either Cascadias or my Mount Decoast. Again, these are these are rinds, but I why the reason why I'm sharing what I wear is each shoe serves a purpose. And it's funny 'cause my wife was giving me grief about this a few like a few weeks back. She's like, You have more shoes than me down here. Like and it's in our mud room and I just was laughing and I was like, I know, but they all have a purpose. It's not just one shoe fits all. And I'm like, it's not like how it was in the early days when I had just one shoe that did everything. I'm like, they all serve a purpose and some of them will protect my foot more than another. Anyways, so I just I I really encourage you if you're like, I really want to get faster at running, what do I do? Well, go in, talk with Jamie. She's gonna talk to you about what shoes are gonna work, or someone at her team is gonna tell you, these are the shoes you should wear if you want to do speed work. If you're looking for long hard miles, these are the shoes that you should do. If you're looking for race day shoes, come in there, try these shoes. You're gonna love them. So I think it's awesome. I think it's really cool. Super, super cool. last thing I want to touch on that you just said that you said a little bit ago is just strength training. And I know we've already talked about IT band stuff, which is really important. I just want to like what you're saying. this training block has been really important for me to do more strength training. It is crucial. you guys have heard me talk about it multiple times in the past. I'll say it again. running is fun. I get it. I don't want to be in the gym. I hate being in the gym. I feel like a fish out of water every time. I'm like, I'm such a runner and I feel stupid being here. But I'm telling you, it has made me stronger, it has made me a more resilient runner. I feel more prepared for a was such than I have in years because of strength training. So, second what Jamie said, go get it done. And one of the things that I love I've loved is that we've always incorporated strength training into the programs, the coaching programs we offer through Fleet Feet. so definitely check them out if you have questions about strength training one of us can help you with that so super super cool so Jamie McDonald: Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: awesome well I I want to move into different part of our episode and it's really kind of the fun part for me because it talks about your why And why you do all this and and and you've kind of been alluding to it, which has been fun. I mean, you've obviously told it through multiple experiences. But why do you run? Why do you continue to do all of this stuff? Why are you so passionate about it? Because, right, like I'm sure you've been doing retail, you're good at it, obviously. And Fleafy, we love ya, no problems. But she could go do something else somewhere else and probably make a lot of money because she's really passionate and she's really good about it, all this, but you're very much involved. you're manning aid stations to being at races to you know managing X amount of employees to filling jobs, recruiting for jobs. I mean the list goes on, and this is just running. This is just running store. We're not talking about her personal training. This isn't not talking about her personal life at all. This is all that. But why do you do all this, Jamie? Why is it so important to you that that all this plays a part in your life? Jamie McDonald: I absolutely love the community and people I love the people. I I am doing my job because of the people, a hundred percent. I get so much you you have to find something passionate in your life and what makes you like tick and what makes you drive and I it I get out of bed in the morning because of the community and who I get to connect with on a daily basis because of running and it it expands more than just the customer in my store, which that's where it starts. Right. like I will go run with these running groups 'cause I wanna see people, I wanna see my friends, I wanna make new connections. because of the position I'm in in my in my role also I have the opportunity to like help other people out. and one of those things that I do is we I I try and find different opportunities in in the community of where we can help someone in our community or help many people in the community. And because I have a platform for it, you know, like we can do a run and let's raise some money or let's do a raffle and And raise some money and and it's not for the business, it's for the community. And I want to make sure that everyone feels included. I want to create a very inclusive environment, and I want everyone to know that they're like welcome and and can be a part of something amazing. And and that's the coolest part about running, I think, is it is a hundred percent a personal thing. Like we say PR, right? It's a personal record. and I do know that there's obviously a ton of people out there who run to win and they want money and they get the recognition and their influencers and I think that is fantastic. But that is not the majority of us. The majority of us are just the everyday Joe Shmoes that are slow at running like me and and I I really wanted to use my position to inspire people and encourage people and and to help build something more than just the racing, the races, right? Like, we do Burn the Bird every year. if you don't know what that is, it is a day after Thanksgiving run that we do. when we started it, what how many people did we have at our first one? Six, I think. Ryan Head: So it was like five or six. It wasn't a lot. It was yeah. Jamie McDonald: Five or six. it was so bad. This is how our group runs used to be. But we stayed persistent and consistent and I I kept it like I want it to be a fun, free run that people can come and do after Thanksgiving before they go shopping. And that it's not timed. It's you just come enjoy it with your family, come to the store after. You can shop if you want, get a treat, and then we do a raffle for everyone that comes and you can buy additional raffle tickets and a hundred percent of those proceeds go to someone in our community to help them. And so that's our Christmas tree instead of doing like a Toys Verta or like a sub for Santa, that is what we do for our business. But it's also I have the ability to do that with the platform that I have. And so it really is like I I touched on it earlier, like learning people's why is like creates a why for me. And and something that came to mind too you're like what when when I'm struggling in a race And I'm doing something hard, I really do think about the people who inspire me and the people that keep me motivated. I'm like, if, dude, if that guy can do it, if Ryan can do this, I can do this. Like, I've I've actually said that in my head so many times. Like, Ryan runs like a hundred mile races and he perseveres through beastings and like all these things. Like, I I really do think that is inspiring too. And I've I've had the opportunity to learn so many people's stories throughout the years of their physical struggles. and like what's prevented them from succeeding or like prevented them from doing certain things and really just I love that connection. I love that connection with people and and if I can help like inspire them and help them get to a better place in their life I I want to and I I don't know why other than it brings me happiness. Like it brings me joy. It like fulfills me to help people succeed and feel better about themselves. I think something I really think about and I like I I teach this to my daughter with she'll come home and tell me something about a friend or someone like you know she's 18 and she's like, and that the iceberg theory, like we only see the tip of the iceberg in someone's life. And my own experience, I I've struggled a lot over the handful of years with some health problems and surgeries and and relationship issues, and and sometimes I'm like no one knows what I'm going through. Just to be able to show up somewhere and feel included and feel like I'm part of something that really im inspires me. And because I know what I've gone through and what I struggle with, I know for a fact that everyone else is going through something and struggling with something and I think if we can create collectively a an environment where everyone feels like they have a place to belong and and can do something amazing with their lives, like and I think you and I've talked about that so many times with our running group is we just try to include everybody. And it doesn't matter if you're a six minute pace or a fifteen minute pace, we want you there. Like we want to see you there. And recently we're doing a training program right now. It's a beginner five K training program and I I have coaches. I don't have to go to the runs, but I've chosen to go to every single one because the people I'm like connecting with, it's inspiring. They've never ran before. A handful of them have never run in their lives. And they saw it and like just running with them and and like kind of pushing them, like, okay, let's let's do a little more and like let's go more. And I got a text message last week from one of them that said, you know, thank you so much for like pushing me. I PR tonight. I've never PR'd in my life. And it It was just a little training run. We did, I think we just did under three miles. And and she's like, I've never done that before. And that was amazing. And I honestly got emotional about it. I'm like, this is why we do what we do. Like, this is so cool. Like, Yeah, I'm just passionate about people. That was a very long explanation, but I Ryan Head: No, that's Jamie McDonald: absolutely love the community and the relationships that I've built. a lot of my friends today I've met through the running group and run met through some type of running and you know atmosphere. And it's so fun to see different people. I see this family we sponsor and support the Skyline Trail Race, and I see this one particular family every single year, and I don't see them any other time really, except for this race, and it's so fun. fun because over the last handful of years it's like hey you and we just like have this little cool catch up and then I'm I'm at the aid station and they come and we're high fiving and we're hugging and we're cheering and it is it's it's like the funnest thing ever and they like we're just like friends. But like just running friends, like it's just and it's just cool. Like it's it really does give me purpose and I I truly thrive on that community aspect and and inspiring hoping to inspire people who may have not ever wanted to be a part of it to be a part of it. Ryan Head: Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well I'll I'll be the first to say that like y like man, where do I start? Ha there's so many things I want to say to what you just said. First and foremost, you are a great example of this. You really, really are. Not just a good example of it, you are a great example of this. it it really does show through in your actions. I always say words are kind of cheap. actions really speak loud and your actions show that you really care. I c I I can't tell how many times I've seen people not just in our community but throughout the world that they will say stuff but they don't mean it and they they will say what you want to hear but they don't care and that is what really makes me angry and running because it is easy to be if you will the sexy thing the man I I the I'm I can do this I can do that but then when it comes down to it they won't be there for you they're not gonna To show up for you. They don't care about you. Not like someone like you, that I've seen just honestly, just like, I'm gonna be there, I'm gonna give everything I have, I'm gonna show up, and you speak with your actions. And that has been the thing that has really I've just always loved about you. And I'm like, she really means it when she's like, I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna be there, I'm gonna help promote this, I'm gonna help make this go forward. The other thing that I want to touch on is this is exactly why I love working with you. This exactly why, you know, like I don't know how long we'll do this together, right? I always I've always joked with her. I'm like, if Fleetfeed ever for some reason didn't want you, I'd follow you wherever you go, but Jamie McDonald: Mm. Ryan Head: which I think Fleetfeed loves her, so that's not an issue. But I've I I know, right? I know, right? but it's just funny because Jamie McDonald: I hope so. Ryan Head: I've always been like, we both share the same passion. And and I've always said my why, I've I've touched on it a couple of times this season of of the podcast. I really haven't died. In too deep besides the first episode. My my why is so complicated. I it's hard for me to ever put it into terms, but one of the big branches or big roots to my my why is exactly what Jamie said. It is about the community. I love getting the community together. I love seeing people do hard things. I love seeing people be like, I can't believe I did that, and I actually pulled it off. I'm like, Yeah, because you're more amazing than you even realize, you just don't know it yet. And that to me, and this is exactly Everything Jamie was just saying. Like it, it's exactly how I feel. This is why I love working with her. I feel like we're on the same page always. It's never about her reputation, my reputation, about making us influencers. It's never about, hey, we want to be the fastest people out there. It's never, it's never been about any of that for us. We don't care about that stuff. What we care about is that we can get everyone out there, no matter what your pace is, and we're gonna cheer for you. We want you to be a part of the community that you know, no matter what your background is, what your political beliefs are, your religious beliefs. Whatever it is, I don't care what it is, that you're welcome to come run with us, and we want you there. And that's the one thing that I've always felt like has been amazing from day one. And when we only had two people, three people showing up to our group runs, to you know, some of the biggest runs we had this year of 50, 60 people. And I do want to just say, because this is something we should gloat about just a little bit. Jamie won't say it, but I'm gonna say it for Jamie McDonald: Mm. Ryan Head: her. Burning the Bird, first year we only had six people, people for second, take a moment to guess while you're sitting here listening to this episode. How many do you think we had this year at Bird and the Bird? Again, it is a free event. We do the Friday after Thanksgiving, so Black Friday, as some people call it. how many people did we have? Give you a second to think. We had over 300 people show up this year. It was kind of almost chaos, but it was so fun. We had such an amazing time, and it was so fun. I was like, holy cow, it felt like a race in the middle of winter. Right, it's like November, almost December, and we have like this race going on. And I'm like, this is so stinking cool. So it's been awesome to see what you've been building. It's been fun to see this continue to grow in the direction it's going. I think it's exciting. I think it's so so exciting. You know, I know you've been through a lot of personal struggles as well, especially like with your health and stuff. You know, how have you been able to use running to cope with that? Because a lot of our listeners and a lot of people we've had on this this season have dealt with very interesting scenarios. some of have gone through personal loss. We've had some people who have dealt with cancer. We've had some people who have been through knee surgeries like myself, twice, reconstruction of my right knee. we've had people, you know, that have gone through loss, whether that's death or divorce. how have you how have you been able to manage these types of things? 'Cause obviously I know personally you have, how have you used running to be able to cope with this? Jamie McDonald: honestly it's kept me going. I a couple of years ago had a pretty invasive surgery, that put me down for a while and and not just physically but mentally and emotionally also. not being able to do really much of anything for I think it was like ten weeks. I couldn't do anything. and it wore on me pretty bad and honestly getting back into it was very difficult. And I will say that to everyone, 'cause if you've if if you've had surgeries before that have put you down for that long, you will know that your energy is down, you're you're tired all the time, you're fatigued, your muscles don't want to do anything. And so that was a really big struggle for me. And the way I incorporated it, I actually joined a gym. I joined Orange Theory Fitness. we have partnered with them in the past and I was like, you know, maybe I need a little push because it was kind of one of those things like you have to register for your class and if you don't cancel, then you still pay for it. So I'm like, that's gonna hold me accountable. And I needed that little push to get going again and we're on the treadmills every day. And that little that little bit of running on the treadmill, like I started on like walking for a while and then progressively started running again. And then when I felt confident with that, then I started coming like running outside more and and joining our running groups and and b build building that strength again. and I really think that accountability piece for myself knowing that I could push myself to get to be healthy again. running really does like I I was telling a customer the other day we were talking about this, 'cause I was talking about this exact same experience. He's like, Do you when did you know you loved running? I'm like, Well Every time I run, I'm like, this sucks, this is hard. Like my this my body hurts. And but then when you get done and you're like, I feel so good right now. Like that runner's high is so real. And coming out of surgery and coming back from that recovery, every time I ran, I was having that thought, like, this sucks. Like this is hard. Like this my body hates me. But then the moment after, like five minutes after, we're like, all right, like that was pretty good. Like I could do that again. Like that was fun. that runner's high really kept me going. And I would say to anyone, like if you don't know where to start, join, somewhere that does give you a little bit of accountability to help jumpstart that. and then being part of the group holds me a little bit of accountability too. Like I feel like people count on me to be there and people count on me to show up and that really does I don't like to tell someone I'm gonna be somewhere or not be there. And so if I tell someone I'm gonna be there, I'm gonna be there. No matter how I feel. And so I'm very fortunate in my role that running is part of my job and showing up is part of my job. And that really did push me to to be part of it. I think we were partnering with like a few months after my surgery, we were partnering with another running group and I was like, I don't I think you came to one of them on the trails. And I struggled. Like I don't know if you remember that. Like I don't even think we did a half a mile and I was like this is awkward. But showing up is so like I mean I really do find value in showing up and being part of something and Like show up. Like just show up. You will feel so much better. Like coming through it. And not you know, my my physical body starts to feel better, but then you're emotional. It's truly the mental and emotional part, like I was talking about. Like you get done and you're like, I feel so good. I did that. Like you you kinda can pat yourself on the back and be proud of the fact that you accomplished something that was hard and you didn't really want to do, you know? Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Yep. Jamie McDonald: So Ryan Head: Hundred hundred percent. Yeah, I know, it was really cool because I I remember exactly the run you were talking about and you were like, This was not fun and I remember being like, you like and I knew you'd been through some stuff, you know, physically and whatnot and I was just like, you poor thing, like you just like you're doing your best. Like really you're doing your best. And I say this as as I always joke professionally as possible. But Jamie looks amazing, she has come a long way. I can tell she has, Jamie McDonald: Thank you. Ryan Head: and you know, she's she looks great and you know continues to push it. And it's funny because I have to mention this story. you know, part of the training program this past year or the past couple of years is we've had Orange Fairy a part of What we do for the Ogden Marathon, and Jamie's like kicking my butt on the strength training. I'm like, I suck so bad. And that was when it really hit me. because I wasn't doing much strength training before the Scout Mountain 100, which I did in June. but then like I remember just in like April, like March and April, we're doing these Orange Fairy sessions, and I'm like, I mean, we're not doing a lot of weight. I wasn't, and I'm like, I I'm doing awful and you like have perfect form. You're over there just like boom, boom, boom, and I'm like, I look pathetic in comparison. And I'm like, I look so stupid right now. And I remember being like, once I get past Scout Mountain, I'm I'm getting back in the gym and I have. And again, this is w another one of those things where like you were an inspiration to me, I was like, I gotta be like her because I Jamie McDonald: Ha ha Ryan Head: suck so bad and I need to like figure out my crap because I know the strength training can go a long way if I'm I'm I'm actually doing it. So, anyways, you were a good example to me there. and just just amazing. So, I appreciate your example with me there. So, awesome. Well, Jamie, this Jamie McDonald: It's been fun. Ryan Head: has been so fun to have you on here. You know, you you really are just an inspiration to so many of us. You're someone who I think so many of us in the community look up to, and we just appreciate you. you know, before we end every episode, I like to do what I call the lightning run questions. Are you open to that? Sure, you're like, heck yeah. They're fun. Jamie McDonald: Sh yeah, let's do it. Ryan Head: I like them just because you know you can give a one-word answer or you can give an explanation to it, whatever you want, but they're just kind of fun. They're just random questions. We're gonna retire these these questions after the season. As I've been saying on other episodes, this we're coming to the end of the season. you know, we're gonna take a few months off. mostly because my wife will be very grateful that I take a few months off and and get to spend a little time with the family. I've loved the podcast. This podcast will be coming back for a season two. and you know, we'll we'll continue to innovate and come up with new ways to do stuff. But these lightning round questions will be used for the rest of the season, and then we've got some new ones for the next season. So alright here Jamie McDonald: Okay. Ryan Head: we go. First question favorite race distance? Let's go. I like that. I like that. Yeah 5k I like that. Jamie McDonald: Five K For me, five K. Ryan Head: That's cool. No, that's good. It's funny you always hear different responses. Why do you like the 5k? It's Jamie McDonald: 'Cause it's easy. It just 'cause you're you're still getting a race done, you can still cross the finish line and you're like, Okay, I did three miles, that's great. Ryan Head: Nice, nice, that's fair. That's fair. I honestly I I won't lie, after the winter racing series this year when we did the 5K, part of me was like, I need to get back into like speed. And then I was like, no, I like trails too much. But it was really fun. It was really fun. I'm not gonna lie, it was actually a blast around a 5k and go hard for it. So okay, next question. Road or trails? Jamie McDonald: Ooh both I don't know, trell, trell I Ryan Head: Trail? Jamie McDonald: like trells. It's a lot more engaging. A lot more engaging. Ryan Head: Yeah. Jamie McDonald: Like you have to pay a lot more attention to where your foot's going. So so you could do like six miles and you're like, we've already done six miles, cool. Like, it's a lot more engaging, yeah. Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. That's awesome. There you go, Tim. Another person for the trails, sucker. Anyways, Jamie McDonald: Ha ha ha. Ryan Head: we he he he's I mean he likes trails. Like, don't get me wrong. He's always like, Ryan, you tell people I don't like I'm like, I know he likes trails. He actually really does. He just is very focused on on roads. But yeah, I think we've had more people to say trails this this season, which has been awesome. So cool. Okay, next one morning or evening runs. Heck yeah. Jamie McDonald: Morning. Hands down, morning. Yes. Ryan Head: Heck yeah. I'm the same way. I think most people have been, we've had a few evenings, but most people love a good morning run. I mean, for me, I don't drink coffee. I have in my life, I don't like the taste of it. That's just me personally. it is my morning coffee. It is what gets me going. Like you said, the endorphin rush is I love that I like for two to three hours after a run, I'm like, man, I'm on cloud nine. Like, life is good. So I'm a morning morning runner for sure as well. So Jamie McDonald: starts the day. Like if I don't get it in the morning, like I feel like a zombie all day. So it really does jump start your day. Yeah. Ryan Head: Yep. Totally. Totally agree with ya. Okay. favorite post-run or post-race meal? Jamie McDonald: hamburger and French fries is probably I I Ryan Head: Let's go. Jamie McDonald: crave what's it has to have bacon too. A bacon burger. Ryan Head: I do not blame you with the bacon part. I used to not be a fan of bacon on hamburgers. I don't know why. And then like I don't know, like three or four years ago, I just like started doing it like a lot and I was like, dude, this is so good. I don't know why I hated it, but that's awesome. I think your response is yeah. I think most people have come on and said hamburger and fries as well. So it's awesome. I'm like, that is like the most consistent response I've got. I've had a lot of like pizza and other things, but ham a good hamburger and fries post race is is like definitely the winner. So awesome. Jamie McDonald: yeah. yeah. Ryan Head: Okay, on a run, music. Podcasts or silence? Jamie McDonald: Silence. Ryan Head: You wow, okay. Wow, silence. Huh. Jamie McDonald: I know, I know. Actually someone just gave me crap about that the other night when we were running. They're like, You don't use music? And I'm like, I like to hear what's happening around me. I don't know. Ryan Head: I'm impressed. I'm impressed. Like I won't lie on my on on my hundred milers I do no music as well. I love to just be listening to the surroundings. I always try to have like the mindset of like be present, be in the moment, enjoy it. But I'm not gonna lie, if I'm ever doing like a road run or a road marathon or my daily training, it I have to have music. I'm like I can't do this without music. So but well Jamie McDonald: Makes sense. Ryan Head: I I do have to ask one follow-up question this because we I know everyone's like Ryan when are you gonna get us our playlist? I meant to do a reimagine running playlist because we still ask a song from every person. If you were gonna listen to a song that's like a hype song, maybe it's some one that you maybe listen to if you go to the gym or something, what would be a song that we could throw on the playlist for for podcast? Jamie McDonald: it's easy 'cause I say this every time. The Eye of the Tiger. 'Cause if the beat Ryan Head: I tiger. Jamie McDonald: the beat, you can run to it. Like you got the good beat to it. I'm a dancer, I've you grew up dancing, so I'm like, I can run to this. We c anything it has a good beat. And Ryan Head: Yeah. That's awesome. Jamie McDonald: I love that song. Like if you haven't actually really listened to the lyrics, it's an incredible song. and very inspiring and motivating. So yeah, Eye of the Tiger. Ryan Head: That's awesome. You know Funny enough, you would think that we would have heard that response by now this season. We have never had someone say that song. So we've had like people say, Don't stop believing by by journey and you know some of the cliche songs, but yeah, that one, no. So that's awesome. Thanks for adding that. We'll get that one added on there for sure to the playlist. So awesome. Okay. Last couple last question I'll throw at you, and then we will we will wrap it up. What would you say to someone? who is probab who may have lost their why. And this could be with running or this could be in life. What would you say to somebody who has lost their why? This has been a fun question to throw up people. I mostly ask it because I think every one of us at one time or another, whether it's with running or in life, we have lost our why. What would you say to somebody that has lost their why? Jamie McDonald: get lost in service. Find a way to serve someone and help someone and you it will create a why for you. Ryan Head: That's amazing. Wow. People, there you go. Probably the best response of the whole season. I a hundred percent agree. Whenever I have felt bad if I serve someone else, it honestly makes me feel so good about myself. And yeah, sometimes you just gotta forget about yourself and go go to work and help other people. So that's awesome. Well, Jamie, this has been awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the episode on this podcast with me. this one's gonna be amazing. I can't wait to release it. I can't wait for people to hear this episode because I I think you've shared some really good insight. You've shared just, you know, how instrumental you've been in the community. You have been. I know it. I've seen it. I'm just grateful to know you. I'm grateful for you as a friend. And honestly, I can't wait to see what we do moving forward because I think we've got a bright future and we're just gonna keep, as I always say, I say it kind of in a weird way, but I also mean it is we're gonna keep conquering. We're gonna keep dominating in this area because we actually really care. And that's the difference between us and probably about everybody. Everybody else. So anyways. Jamie, thanks for coming on. Yeah. Jamie McDonald: Thank you. Thank you. I I love working with you, Ryan. Like it's and you're a great friend and I love what we've done and I'm i I'm truly excited for what's to come and I wanna add a little tidbit. I Ryan's one of our coaches for good reason. He he's really great with mental strength and an endurance and and we offer a plethora of different training programs throughout the year. and I if you don't know where to start and you're not sure how to start, I would encourage you to to contact us and let us know how we can get you going because we have a program for everyone. like I said, my dream was to be inclusive to everyone and my my passion is to make sure that everyone feels welcome no matter where you start. And so I I would just encourage and and Ryan's one of our coaches and he's he's we're very much in alignment with that mindset of getting people started and going and inspiring you. So if you don't know where to start, please join us. On any on any platform, please join us. Ryan Head: Yeah. And if you know a loved one or someone that you're like, I just want them to get on a move and you're like, Can we can I pay for a a coaching with them or whatever? You know, just to get started, right? Please reach out, guys. Like, listen, you know, as I've as I've always said with my family personally, I was the first person to ever run a marathon. In my family. As always, the first person through the wall always gets bloody. But ever since I proved it could be done, now I've had brothers, I've had sister-in-laws, I've had nieces, I've had nephews now run a marathon. And that's just the marathon. I'm not talking about half marathons, I'm not talking about 5Ks, any of that other stuff. But it it basically kind of started a revolution in my family where running was not something anyone ever did. And so, like, if we can help you. as listener, whoever this is that's listening to this episode, if we can help you or a family member or someone else, let us know. We like, we want to do that because running changes lives. Like, you know, you always hear a bunch of stuff out there that could be wrong and false and like, yeah, old running's back for your knees and running's this and that. It's not. Like I promise you, it's actually really healthy for you and it can do a lot of good. And yes, you got to do it right as we've talked about throughout this episode and as I've talked about multiple times throughout season. But even if all you're like all I can do is walk and I'm just gonna start all walking program then let's get you start let's get you started walking because that's gonna that is gonna be instrumental and game changer for you so I'm so glad you brought that up because it is important. I'm glad you made that plug because yes obviously we're running a business duh I mean yes we are running a business but the reality is is this goes deeper than that the the return on your investment will be exponentially higher than what you put into it. So just saying so Jamie McDonald: Yep. There's nothing more rewarding when you do start running. Like I said, we talked about it's hard. It's hard, it's hard. And then the next run you you're I went a little longer and it was a little easier. And the next run it was a little bit easier. And there's nothing more rewarding of like becoming a stronger individual runner and like I said it i that runner's high is real, like so accomplished. So Ryan Head: Yeah. Yeah, you're a hundred percent right. And you know, just like you, you know, you said you're like Ryan's just mentally strong. It is because of running I'm mentally strong. I promise. It's not because of anything else. It's because I've proven to myself over and over and over that I can do hard things and I learned that through running. And now I just incorporate that other aspects of my life. So, anyways, just awesome. So well, cool. Well, Jamie, thank you so much. Thanks for coming on. This has been a great Jamie McDonald: Yeah. Ryan Head: episode. I can't wait to release it and let our viewers and our listeners hear your your words of wisdom because Jamie McDonald: Thank you. It that was awesome. Coach Ryan Head: Hey runner, thanks for hanging out with me today on Reimagine Running. I'm grateful you're here and a part of this great podcast. I just want to remind you, if you ever feel stuck and unsure or just want someone in your corner, I do offer coaching for runners at any distance, whether you're starting out with the 5K or you're chasing some crazy big goals and dreams like the marathon or the 100 miler, I'd love to help you. Please reach out and I'd be happy to set up a time to go over options and plans and goals with you. Well, until next time. Take care of yourself, trust the process, stay disciplined and keep chasing that Y.