Latest / Partnerships Unraveled / 010 - The Power of Alliances in Channel: Co-Innovation, Co-Marketing, Co-Selling

Transcript

010 - The Power of Alliances in Channel: Co-Innovation, Co-Marketing, Co-Selling · Partnerships Unraveled

• 0:07
  Welcome back to Partnerships Unraveled. The Podcast where we unravel the mysteries of partnerships and channel on a weekly basis.
• 0:15
  My name is Rick van den Bosch, and I'm the CEO and founder of Channext.
• 0:19
  And I'm here together with Alex Whitford, VP partners at Channext.
• 0:22
  Alex, how are you doing today?
• 0:22
  Yeah, really well.
• 0:25
  Excited to be back.
• 0:25
  Yeah.
• 0:28
  What do you think about the topic that we're going to touch upon today?
• 0:31
  One of my favorite alliances, I'm a big believer in work smart, not hard, and alliances, I think, is the perfect epitome of how to work smart.
• 0:40
  And where is that for you like?
• 0:42
  "Work smart and not hard" when you have a look at alliances.
• 0:45
  Maybe let's start at what is an alliance?
• 0:45
  Sure.
• 0:49
  So an alliance typically is two or more vendors working in collaboration to bring a unique offer down to end users via the channel.
• 1:00
  Yeah.
• 1:01
  And is it always via the channel or sometimes just together?
• 1:05
  Not necessarily.
• 1:06
  I think sometimes or more often than not, actually, it's direct.
• 1:11
  However, they're missing the scaling vector of delivering it via the channel, and if they did it via the channel and it's well designed, actually, it's the best functioning alliance there is.
• 1:22
  Yeah, I fully agree there.
• 1:23
  And I think that's the nice thing on what we're going to touch upon today.
• 1:26
  We're first going to dive into what is an alliance and how do you make it successful, like vendor to vendor, but of course, in the Channel Partnerships podcast, we're going to dive into okay, but how do you then cascade that alliance via your channel and really bring that network effect there?
• 1:42
  So I'm also very excited for it, and I think if I take a look at alliances, then it's really looking at other vendors where you've built your own product that has some core functionalities and that brings value in a certain way to the end user.
• 1:58
  But you always get questions from end-users like, oh, I would like to do this, or in a more total picture, it would be great if I could do this with the product and they really want a complete solution.
• 2:09
  And I think that's so interesting, especially the things that are happening in the late years in software, but for a longer time already in hardware, where you don't try to build everything yourself, but you really look at alliance.
• 2:21
  Partners where you say, hey, how can we combine our products to make the best one possible and the best solution possible for the end user?
• 2:29
  Yeah, exactly.
• 2:30
  I think to quote the incredible Kendrick Lamar, be humble.
• 2:34
  Right.
• 2:34
  If you're a vendor and you've got a go-to-market motion and a product, it's understanding that that's not the center of the universe.
• 2:41
  And we need to bring in other players to build a better, more well rounded solution for the end users.
• 2:48
  And like you say, the channel is the great scaling vector, the network effect to really drive that across the masses.
• 2:54
  Yeah.
• 2:55
  If I look at myself, for example, I'm really a product guy, so I love thinking about the product and what it could look like.
• 3:00
  And at first when I look at it really in that mode where I was like, oh, we can build this and we can build that, and then we have full control over everything that's happening in the product.
• 3:12
  But very quickly, when you are scaling as a company and scaling as a product, you see that there are so many products around you that are very closely aligned, but so much better at what they do that you could ever be by doing it half.
• 3:27
  I think that's where there is such an opportunity, it's also partly a mindset shift of thinking.
• 3:31
  And like I said, I'm the big example of this, where it's like, oh, build everything yourself, full control, know what's happening.
• 3:38
  And of course, maybe also earn revenue with it.
• 3:42
  But then you really see, hey, but we're eventually all in it to make the end user as successful as possible and to provide the value we want for them.
• 3:50
  And we can do that so much better if we cooperate with other vendors in a similar space.
• 3:55
  Yeah, to me it's actually, in some ways, it becomes quite obvious when you think about it logically.
• 4:00
  If you just think about a hypothetical solution.
• 4:03
  Do you want one generalist that's easy to purchase but not best at anything, or do you want a whole bunch of specialists?
• 4:11
  Well, conceptually, you want option two.
• 4:13
  You want the whole bunch of specialists.
• 4:15
  But that comes with complexity.
• 4:16
  It comes with who do I purchase from?
• 4:18
  How does it all tie together?
• 4:18
  Who's going to deploy it?
• 4:20
  Who's going to manage it?
• 4:21
  And so it's like, okay, maybe I'll go with the generalist then.
• 4:25
  So the challenge really for the vendors and for the channel in total and for those alliances is how do we bring all the specialists together in one, easy to use, easy to purchase, easy to manage bundle.
• 4:38
  And if you can do that effectively, you're always going to beat the generalist.
• 4:43
  Yeah, I love that, if you think about it, indeed what you see, if you're all specialist, you can provide much more value, but you need someone or a company that orchestrates it.
• 4:54
  And I think that's so interesting indeed, is how can you position your product together, because it's not just creating an integration or creating a smart solution together, but how do you go to market together, how do you train the customer and how do you provide value to them?
• 5:07
  There's like a full playbook you need to create when you actually launch a new alliance partnership.
• 5:13
  Yeah, I remember seeing a good example a few months ago.
• 5:16
  It was a Gary Vee video from twelve years ago where he was talking about the death of the BlackBerry when BlackBerry was still a huge thing and his whole argument is the App Store, not the iPhone, will kill the BlackBerry.
• 5:28
  And it's because the App Store solves the problem of purchasing specialist items, which is I want a specialist music provider and I want a specialist map, and I want a specialist text message functionality.
• 5:40
  Well, the App Store actually collates all of that.
• 5:42
  That's a great hypothetical example of what can be done in the channel by delivering really cohesive alliance partners, where if I take an example that we know really well, a boardroom, the AV meeting room, that's a complex area.
• 5:59
  I need a good screen, I need a good microphone, I need a good content sharing device, I need a good cloud platform.
• 6:04
  Oh, hang on.
• 6:06
  An integration partner or an AV partner is able to bundle that all together, do the same functionality of the App Store, make it really easy to purchase, but I'm getting all of the specialist providers, therefore delivering me much higher value.
• 6:19
  Yeah, I actually like both examples because you also see that it's not just software with software or hardware with hardware, but it's really the intertwining of all those products together where you bring the most value.
• 6:30
  And I think Apple is an excellent one in the B to C area where they have built the hardware so the smartphone, but from there they offer some apps, but you can get so much better apps.
• 6:41
  Like if I look at myself, I always use Google Maps because they are working on it a full day.
• 6:46
  Like it's such an advanced product, they tie everything together.
• 6:50
  So I prefer that one over the other one.
• 6:52
  And I think that's another thing of that.
• 6:53
  Be humble thing or set aside your ego and not be like, hey, everybody needs to use my apps and the things that I provide to them or a specific product, but really get into that mode where it's like, okay, if I can provide the hardware, and I know someone else who can provide the ultimate software for it, then we might together, actually have the best solution possible in the market.
• 7:14
  Yeah, and put yourself in the mindset of the end user.
• 7:17
  Flexibility is a huge value add.
• 7:20
  So just to continue the Apple example, apple are flexible.
• 7:25
  You can use Google Maps, you can use Apple Maps, you can use Waze, whatever the functionality is that you need.
• 7:30
  But the flexibility ensures continual purchasing of the iPhone in this example.
• 7:35
  And so that's why if you're a player and you want to build an alliance strategy, building multiple integrations or alliance go to market motions allows an end user to be flexible, but it also allows you to pair with different technologies, pair with different go to market motions.
• 7:52
  And ultimately that flexibility is what's going to drive long term sustainable success.
• 7:58
  Yes, and it also really helps you to enter new markets.
• 8:01
  If I just popped in my mind, but if I stay with the example of Apple, almost all cars nowadays have Apple CarPlay.
• 8:09
  So like, they started with, of course, with their computers, then they went into ipods, iPhones, like getting more and more advanced.
• 8:16
  But now their software is used everywhere because when you're in your car, you want to pair it with your iPhone as well.
• 8:22
  So you get like value on value on value, and maybe even more important, not just for selling it, but most importantly for keeping customers on board because you provide so much value to them that they actually want to stay.
• 8:35
  It's not even a discussion anymore.
• 8:35
  Absolutely.
• 8:38
  Apple, if you look at their key announcements, they talk a lot about the ecosystem.
• 8:44
  And the ecosystem is both an aggressive and defensive play.
• 8:48
  So what they'll talk about is, oh, we allow you in, which in some ways people might say, oh, that's a bit defensive.
• 8:55
  You're allowing people, you're not competing.
• 8:57
  But what it does is it guarantees continuous purchase because I might need a very particular feature that Apple doesn't allow.
• 9:05
  And so by allowing integration, it means that I will continue to purchase Apple.
• 9:10
  But like you say, there's also an aggressive element, which is how can we extend our ecosystem, how do we get now into cars, how do we get into AirPods and headphones and how do we continue to grow that ecosystem outwards?
• 9:24
  And so from a vendor strategy perspective, my expectations for vendors that are going to continuously grow year over year and make big leaps forward are looking at alliances and partnerships as a way to work smart and not just hard.
• 9:40
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:41
  There and I think the other example that you gave with the boardroom, or when you have a video conferencing room for hybrid meetings, it's so interesting to think about like, how many brands you need to even make one.
• 9:53
  And then we don't even talk about the furniture or stuff like that, but just about to have the video conferencing.
• 10:00
  So you need the video bar, you need display, you need video conferencing there.
• 10:05
  And that's so interesting.
• 10:06
  That's what I think we can actually learn a lot from the AV market because they know it that they really need each other.
• 10:11
  So they are looking a lot towards each other.
• 10:13
  And I think with your history, it's very interesting.
• 10:15
  From a Zoom perspective, what did you see there?
• 10:18
  Like, how did Zoom cooperate with their alliance partners and what type of alliance partners did they have?
• 10:23
  Yeah, exactly.
• 10:23
  So again, what you want to do is put yourself in the place of the end user and understand where your limitations are and then proactively solve those with integrations.
• 10:35
  Now when you're a cloud product, you understand that your limitation is hardware.
• 10:39
  And so you've got to proactively integrate and open up your software so that these hardware integration partners can work together.
• 10:47
  But by definition, you're understanding where the limitations are and solving those together.
• 10:54
  And then you can take a market you can take your product to market or your solution to market more effectively.
• 11:00
  Because, like you say, from the aggressive standpoint hang on, logitech or a good zoom integration partner.
• 11:06
  Hang on, there's loads of Logitech partners out there.
• 11:08
  Now, I can proactively go to them and say, hey, you already sell the hardware.
• 11:13
  Are you interested in selling the cloud offering?
• 11:15
  Which is a really useful go to market motion, because you're on the side of the partner, you're helping them grow.
• 11:21
  And that's an attractive offer.
• 11:23
  And it even goes one layer deeper in it.
• 11:26
  That also for the other way around, for your alliance partner.
• 11:29
  They can sell, in this example, Logitech, they can sell their video bar without one or of the big video conferencing, sorry, video conferencing software or cloud platforms there.
• 11:41
  And because of that, with every loyalty tech rally bar that will be sold always either Zoom or Microsoft teams, Google, Meet or another provider there will be sold with it.
• 11:54
  And that's such an interesting way of looking at it where you're like hey, we're all going to market, we're all thinking about how can we do that in the most efficient way as possible.
• 12:03
  Indeed, with channel partners, how do we enable them, how do we show it to the end user there?
• 12:09
  And for that you have so many sales forces combined working on the same solution.
• 12:16
  I think that's what's really interesting.
• 12:17
  Yeah, and some vendors have a very sort of laser fair attitude to it and they'll say oh, the channel will work it out and some are far more proactive in sort of doing a white space analysis within the partner landscape to say hang on, who can we collaborate with better?
• 12:33
  And those are the ones that are making big leaps forward because they're really taking alliance strategy much more seriously.
• 12:41
  Yeah, I think just popped in my mind as well.
• 12:44
  What was also very interesting, we spoke about like I think we were going into the direction of best of suite versus best of Brief there.
• 12:52
  So do you go for specialists or an all in one solution?
• 12:55
  And I find it very interesting.
• 12:57
  Also, if you look at CRM providers for example like HubSpot or Salesforce, they are the typical best of suite solution because you can do so much in it already.
• 13:06
  You can have your full marketing team working and your full sales team, your full customer success, but still they have one of the largest app marketplaces in the world and so much revenue is generated through it because customers are still looking for customization and for their specific solutions that they want to have solved etc.
• 13:28
  And no company in the world can fix that, even not Salesforce or HubSpot.
• 13:32
  So that's why they opened up their platform and allowed app creators or development teams to actually create very specific apps where you can get the most value.
• 13:42
  I can give an example of one that we are using as Channext so we are working with HubSpot and the full team is working in it.
• 13:49
  But HubSpot didn't really have a good organization mapping tool in it.
• 13:56
  So you couldn't really have a visual map of what it looks like or what the relationships in the platform would like.
• 14:02
  So there's this company Chart Hub, who literally built their full company around that specific app and it works brilliantly.
• 14:09
  You can map multiple companies together, you can map the people within the company.
• 14:13
  So you really have your total overview, like your chart of what it looks like.
• 14:17
  And that's what I find so interesting, where you get a specialist together as well, even with the best of suite solution that it provides so much value to, in this case us as an end user.
• 14:28
  Yeah, exactly.
• 14:29
  What's interesting then from a sort of more commercially minded area, if you've got one of those integrations and you solve a real key problem, then I think with my sort of love for business, it's how do I now take that to market effectively?
• 14:44
  And yeah, you can just do lots of end user marketing, right, and say, hey, this is the very specific feature that we have and this is how we can provide value to you.
• 14:54
  Or you can go and build a joint go to market motion through HubSpot partners and talk about that value and get the channel on the side delivering that value.
• 15:04
  We obviously benefit for that feature.
• 15:06
  In this business, that means thousands, if not tens of thousands of end users who would also benefit.
• 15:11
  And working with HubSpot partnerships would be a fantastic way to work smarter, not harder to acquire those end users.
• 15:19
  Yeah, and in that way you can really attach to their go to market as well and actually accelerate together.
• 15:24
  I think that's very smart.
• 15:26
  We spoke about it in one of the earlier episodes where it's like you can also create a go to market motion amongst one of the hyper scalers like Google Cloud or Amazon Web services, Microsoft Azure or an AV market around.
• 15:40
  Zoom or Microsoft teams where you can really attach to their go to market and get so much more traction than you could have on your own there.
• 15:48
  What's interesting about those two examples, let's just do Microsoft and Microsoft.
• 15:52
  So Azure and Teams is, ROI is driven out of consumption, right?
• 15:57
  Are they utilizing the platform?
• 15:59
  And certainly for partners within the Azure landscape, they're actually paid on consumption.
• 16:03
  And so then what you want to do to work with end users is maximize consumption.
• 16:08
  And that is done by apps, right?
• 16:11
  That's done by driving.
• 16:11
  I don't know.
• 16:13
  Let's make an example of Cronus, a security software that integrates into Azure and can be embedded in Azure.
• 16:19
  If I'm a partner, I'm going, right?
• 16:21
  Well, I sell Azure consumption.
• 16:22
  Now I'm going to work with this end user and work with vendors to deliver as many applications through this service as possible.
• 16:29
  Makes me stickier end users, get more value and I earn more money.
• 16:33
  It's a win win.
• 16:34
  Now I just need alliance strategies to make that process as simple as possible.
• 16:40
  And I often talk to sort of channel leaders and CROs about the shortcut to building a channel if you've not built one yet, is to focus on alliances to begin with because there's unique value to the channel and you can piggyback on a Channext that's already built.
• 16:58
  Yeah, I think that's very interesting.
• 17:00
  I'm just thinking right now, is there such a thing as becoming too reliant on an alliance partner?
• 17:06
  We've mentioned some big names.
• 17:07
  So HubSpot, Apple, Zoom, Salesforce, etc.
• 17:12
  Where do you think, where's the line with going all in and making sure you right away?
• 17:18
  But on the other hand, I think we all know Apple's, the cases they have together with Epic Games or with Spotify that they need to get so much revenue to Apple.
• 17:31
  Where is the line?
• 17:31
  How do you feel about that?
• 17:33
  Sure.
• 17:33
  There's two ways alliances can become onesided and therefore dangerous.
• 17:39
  So the first is only one side of the party gets the benefit.
• 17:43
  So an example that I've seen happen a lot is a cloud video conferencing.
• 17:49
  Occasionally they're the ones driving the deals, right?
• 17:52
  So they're the ones that say go into a big enterprise, end user, sell a new cloud service and then a hardware partner goes brilliant, now we can work on it together and I can sell lots of hardware into that end user.
• 18:04
  That's technically true, but the cloud player might have done all of the work and suddenly it doesn't feel like a two way relationship if managed poorly and that can turn one side off.
• 18:15
  So making sure that both parties are being proactive about bringing value to the relationship is really critical because otherwise it can almost feel onesided and then eventually the relationship will just break down.
• 18:28
  So ensure that you've got balance when you're bringing end user to end user or partner to partner is really critical to keep the relationship sustainable and long term.
• 18:37
  So you need to be constantly aware if you're in an alliance role that you keep giving towards each other.
• 18:43
  So like that it's imbalanced there but also to continuously look, okay, what can I do right now to provide more value to that?
• 18:50
  Because I think indeed if you get into such a motion together then you'll make sure that your alliance relationship stays healthy.
• 18:57
  Yeah, exactly.
• 18:57
  It's the mantra of give, not take.
• 19:00
  Right?
• 19:00
  And if you're both in a healthy relationship, you as an individual spend all your time giving, but they reciprocate and therefore you both grow and win together.
• 19:09
  When it becomes too much take, eventually the relationship will break down because I feel that I'm not getting anything out of this and over time I've got targets to hit as well, right?
• 19:18
  So I'm going to prioritize my number, the best relationships and when we can both hit our targets by giving.
• 19:25
  Yeah, I fully agree there.
• 19:26
  And what do you think about the big marketplaces?
• 19:29
  So let's take Amazon Web services as an example.
• 19:32
  Or Salesforce, Apple.
• 19:36
  Is there a line we should keep in touch if they call it the marketplace tax, like, you're on my marketplace, and of course they're facilitating it, but where do you see that?
• 19:48
  Yes.
• 19:48
  So again, if I'm managing that relationship into a marketplace provider, I would want to understand their priorities and how I can work with them to get to theirs.
• 19:57
  Right.
• 19:58
  So if it's consumption, great, then I'm going to show you how I can maximally deliver consumption without you putting much effort in.
• 20:07
  And here's what I need from you, and here's what I'm going to bring you.
• 20:10
  And if that's the max, that's the maximum I can offer, which typically from marketplaces it is, then I want to understand exactly how I can deliver value and then work within those parameters.
• 20:21
  Where it can break down is I've seen it happen time and time again.
• 20:25
  Hey, can I have some leads?
• 20:26
  Hey, can I have some leads?
• 20:27
  Yeah, sure.
• 20:28
  But what are you doing for me for those leads?
• 20:31
  And if that's not correctly explained and then delivered on, that was where a relationship will just sour very quickly.
• 20:38
  So I want to be very aware of what I'm doing to support the relationship as well.
• 20:44
  I think if I could give one tip, it's like, always look around you, like, where is indeed the big players, where I can attach myself and my product to them, provide value to them, and they provide value to me.
• 20:54
  So we provide the most value to the end user, but also make sure that you're not becoming completely reliable on them, because that's the danger indeed, if all your revenue is coming from one specific player, for example, through Marketplace or whatever, but they are actually in charge of the customer relationship, then it's really hard there.
• 21:15
  Once things might go sideways or like the platform becomes less popular, or they do something with the margins from the marketplace or the tech, so to say.
• 21:24
  So your margins get under pressure.
• 21:26
  You must make sure that you are riding the wave to the fullest, but also stay aware that you always need to keep looking for other waves.
• 21:34
  Correct.
• 21:34
  And you actually highlight the other big risk from tying yourself to one of these sort of macro vendors.
• 21:41
  And that's what I call feature slip.
• 21:43
  So Apple have been famous at doing this very, very well.
• 21:48
  They've expanded their ecosystem aggressively.
• 21:51
  And sometimes that ecosystem starts with an integration, and then they go, that's a good feature, we're going to design our own.
• 21:57
  And suddenly you can see a market slip away.
• 22:00
  The best one I can think of in sort of recent times is there was a hardware product called Tile, which allows you to attach it to your keys, and you could find your keys easily.
• 22:11
  They wanted to integrate with Apple, which they ended up doing.
• 22:14
  And then Apple released AirTags, which was their own product.
• 22:18
  And suddenly Tile went, oh, we've got this integration, but our entire market is now under threat because Apple have released their own version, which fully legally, they're able to do.
• 22:28
  So one of the pieces of advice I always give CROs is, yes, go and look after alliances quickly.
• 22:35
  It's a really good shortcut, but you need sustainable revenue within your own market because sometimes you can provide so much value that Salesforce go, that's a good feature, we should add that.
• 22:47
  And then suddenly your carpet is ripped out from underneath you because most suppliers will go or most customers will go with the big best of sweet products because it's a simple addition and sometimes it's at zero cost and then you're really in danger.
• 23:03
  Yes, you're right, because then indeed, why would customers stay with you?
• 23:06
  And I think that's a very good point indeed.
• 23:10
  You must always think, okay, where can I actually write away together with such a vendor?
• 23:15
  But also be very aware that you are building your own business there.
• 23:19
  I think if you keep that in mind, then you're in a safe spot within alliances as well.
• 23:23
  Like how can we accelerate but not become completely dependent?
• 23:26
  Yeah, and we talk a lot, right, when we talk about channel strategy, about Hedging.
• 23:30
  And that's why building multiple teams, multiple sales strategies and multiple growth levers is what's going to make you sustainably successful.
• 23:39
  Because you can pick this alliance and try something there and maybe see some growth, but at the same time try and do two or three growth levers because the best thing that happens is all three work.
• 23:50
  In which case fantastic.
• 23:51
  But if the worst thing happens is we lost this one, but luckily we were also building this one, it allows you to be slightly more protected.
• 24:00
  You've just got to balance that with focus because what you can't happen is be a mile wide and an inch deep and you never really achieve anything.
• 24:08
  So you 've got to toe that line.
• 24:10
  Yeah, I think the word focus is also very interesting when you're talking about alliance partnerships, because I think the reason why you start with alliance partnerships and also what you have to start with is co innovation.
• 24:22
  You first have to create a combined solution.
• 24:24
  Doesn't matter whether it's hardware with hardware, hardware with software, or software with software.
• 24:29
  For this example, I'll go a bit deeper into software combined with software.
• 24:33
  So you first start talking to your endusers, see indeed, like, what are you missing currently?
• 24:37
  Also, very importantly, with what kind of tools are you already working?
• 24:42
  And then see how can we integrate all those specialist products, the best of brief products, into one solution that provides maximum value for the end user.
• 24:52
  And I think second to that.
• 24:53
  So that's how you start more like in a qualitative way, but what I find especially interesting nowadays is what I see more and more is that there's also a quantitative way to it.
• 25:03
  And you see with tools like Review or Cross Beam, where you can do account mapping and you can actually see which accounts do I have, which customers, and which accounts does my potential tech or alliance partner have to already see?
• 25:17
  How many combined customers do we have?
• 25:19
  And that's such a good way of thinking about it because sometimes I've fallen into this trap as well.
• 25:24
  You get so excited yourself about a certain feature and you had some very interesting conversations with customers, but there's like almost no one else who wants to use that integration.
• 25:35
  And I think, especially in the beginning when your resources are still little, that you want to make sure that the integrations that you built are spot on and are being used by many people.
• 25:45
  Because as soon as you get into that Motion where actually people start using it, then you will increase retention, customer value, customer lifetime value, and in that way really get into the SAS cycle where you want to be.
• 25:58
  Yeah, exactly.
• 25:58
  When you talk about sort of feature development or tech integrations, it's the difference between must have and nice to have.
• 26:05
  Right, I see so often, and you see it time and time again when you see a new feature and you go, that was engineering Led, or that was ROI Led, because sometimes it's a really cool feature that no one's ever going to use, and sometimes it's, oh, wow, this integration has really made my life easier.
• 26:23
  And it's maximally going to provide ROI that the end user needs.
• 26:27
  Great.
• 26:28
  Those are the ones that we want to prioritize.
• 26:30
  So again, it's about putting yourself in the endusers shoes.
• 26:34
  Not that this is a good integration because it's going to help our go to market.
• 26:37
  No.
• 26:37
  Is it going to help the end user?
• 26:40
  Then it's a good decision.
• 26:42
  And then we can work out how we deliver a go to market Motion that takes that to as many end users as possible.
• 26:48
  Yeah, it's always follow the market.
• 26:48
  Right?
• 26:50
  If you know the end user, if you know what they want and you start building your product around that, they provide them the most value and then all the beautiful things for your own company eventually will happen because it all starts there.
• 27:03
  Yeah, exactly.
• 27:04
  Sometimes I think we can over analyze businesses and channel and all of it.
• 27:10
  To me, it just comes out, do you solve problems effectively?
• 27:13
  If you solve problems effectively, then it's how many end users have that problem?
• 27:17
  How do we effectively take our solution to solve that problem?
• 27:21
  Well, bang.
• 27:22
  Cover those three effectively and you're there.
• 27:25
  Yeah, I fully agree.
• 27:26
  I'm thinking like, what role do you see for alliance partnerships when it comes to finding and recruiting new channel partners?
• 27:34
  Is there a correlation there or is it mainly about the.
• 27:36
  End user.
• 27:37
  So the first thing I do whenever we talk about an alliance partnership is to understand the channels that are currently in place with both sets of vendors.
• 27:49
  Because what we then want to do is do a white space analysis, right?
• 27:53
  So let's just take one market.
• 27:56
  Okay, we've got vendor A has got 100 partners in the UK and vendor B has 100 partners in the UK.
• 28:02
  Fantastic.
• 28:03
  They won't be exactly the same or probably not the same set of partners.
• 28:07
  There might be 30 that crossover, which is great.
• 28:11
  First thing we then do is prioritize those 30.
• 28:13
  Did you know about our integration?
• 28:15
  Did you know about our story?
• 28:17
  Here's how you can co sell these products together.
• 28:19
  Deliver immediate traction, because that's low hanging fruit.
• 28:23
  That's the first thing to prioritize.
• 28:26
  So then the second thing I would then do is go, right, who are your key partnerships from vendor A that we don't sell to?
• 28:34
  Can we have introductions?
• 28:35
  And vice versa.
• 28:37
  Now you're getting partner growth, you're attracting and recruiting new partners with a co-sell story.
• 28:43
  And the best thing is you can prove that it works with your first 30 set of partners.
• 28:48
  So that's a very attractive offer into that next layer of market.
• 28:52
  And that's where you start to see channel growth.
• 28:55
  And that white space analysis is how you can be really, really precise and especially when you've got a lack of resource availability.
• 29:03
  Precision is key to generate scale.
• 29:06
  So it's easier to find the right partners, but it also becomes easier to recruit them because you get a warm referral by your alliance partner.
• 29:15
  Just as when you get a customer referral, it's always much easier to get a new business.
• 29:20
  Right?
• 29:20
  And I think that's really cool here as well.
• 29:22
  Like you get a warm introduction.
• 29:24
  The reason why you're working with channel partners is that together you're getting warm introductions into the customer network there.
• 29:31
  But now you also turn that motion around where you are always working as a channel team on, hey, we need to recruit new partners.
• 29:38
  Which partners are the right partners?
• 29:39
  How do we provide the most value to the end user with those partners?
• 29:43
  And now you have a better solution together because you did the co innovation and then you look into each other's partners, so you have a very clear view on what type of partners might work very well for both of us to combine them.
• 29:56
  But then also you get on top of that, you get warm introductions into each other's channel partners, where you actually ended up, just like you said, a Coselling story where it's like, hey guys, we created this awesome solution together and you can market it to your customers.
• 30:11
  It's a direct upsell.
• 30:12
  The integration is there.
• 30:13
  I think it's a win win win for everyone.
• 30:13
  Yeah.
• 30:16
  And to be honest, that's why I love Channext so much, because we can actually drive these commercially minded decisions that benefit all parties and really build that network effect and help us grow.
• 30:27
  The irony is the secret then is how do you do the same thing in the endusers and you follow the same process?
• 30:33
  Who are our top end users?
• 30:35
  Who are your top endusers?
• 30:36
  Which ones do we currently have overlap?
• 30:39
  Which should we have overlap?
• 30:40
  And you go through those sales process for your high touch end users, the ones that you have direct contact with, maybe your large enterprise end users, and then you teach the partners to do the same process and suddenly you've got this flywheel effect of partner recruitment, gotomarket messaging, targeted end user messaging, targeted end user cosale.
• 31:03
  And suddenly you see working smarter allows us to grow scale very, very quickly.
• 31:10
  And I think that's interesting to dive into that a little bit deeper as well.
• 31:14
  Like we've talked about creating the solution or like the co innovation piece and then finding and recruiting partners there.
• 31:22
  But that's where it only starts.
• 31:24
  I think that's one of the main things.
• 31:26
  And also why partnerships and tech partnerships are so hot currently is because we realize that creating an integration is one thing, but bringing the integration to the market is a whole other ball game.
• 31:39
  And I think that's why co marketing plays such a crucial role.
• 31:42
  As soon as you launch a new integration, or not even assume, but before, way before you launch an integration, you need to have given thought to how are we going to position it with what messaging?
• 31:53
  But also very importantly, how are we going to cascade that message into the market?
• 31:58
  And that's such a crucial thing.
• 32:00
  Like it's fully intertwined when I think about it, the co innovation, once you are creating the innovation, you already need to think about, okay, how are we going to bring it to the market 100%?
• 32:12
  And what's really funny is sometimes business is just really logical and it just makes complete sense.
• 32:17
  And this is one of those examples where I go, yeah, obviously, and we just don't see it enough.
• 32:22
  You devise, you design the integration to solve a problem and then you don't market that.
• 32:28
  You solve that problem together.
• 32:30
  It's insanity if you fix a really key issue for an end user market, that these two vendors working together fix that issue because that issue will generate pain that you can then solve.
• 32:42
  And that is the perfect way to market a solution.
• 32:45
  And there are many advantages to it because indeed you can go through your combined channel partners and make sure the channel cascades even more.
• 32:54
  You can combine your budgets.
• 32:56
  So usually alliances have budgets for each other because you're going to sell each other's product as well.
• 33:02
  So at first maybe you had 30K for a marketing campaign, but now all of a sudden you have two times 30K.
• 33:08
  So you're going to market with a much larger budget.
• 33:11
  You can immediately position it like that as well.
• 33:15
  I think that's what I see a lot, especially in co marketing or in marketing in general, is that solutions convert a lot better than bringing product related content.
• 33:26
  So you really go one layer deeper with the end user as well, with everything you bring to the market and that combination.
• 33:33
  So indeed you have your combined budgets together with your combined channel.
• 33:38
  You have the ultimate network on network scaling effect.
• 33:41
  And I think that's really cool to embrace when you're working with alliance partners.
• 33:45
  Yeah.
• 33:45
  And the other thing is typically vendors market the same way.
• 33:49
  So we are one vendor and this is our story.
• 33:53
  When I've built an integration, I've actually got a unique marketing angle that I'm not able to market for because we fix a new problem that's a great thing for a marketer to get their teeth into.
• 34:04
  Oh brilliant, I've got new material.
• 34:06
  And now we've got two different marketing teams who can coordinate that marketing effort together, bringing their own unique value to that story.
• 34:15
  That's gold dust through the channel that you can then cascade and deliver those solutions with.
• 34:20
  Yes, and I think also when you report internally what people love to see, okay, we've launched this integration.
• 34:27
  We know that we put a lot of effort and product development time into it.
• 34:31
  But if you can actually show immediately what kind of traction you're generating together because you have your go to market co marketing campaigns up and running immediately.
• 34:41
  You start doing it with your direct marketing towards your current customer base.
• 34:46
  You start enabling your channel partners to do the exact same thing.
• 34:50
  Then you can show so much more traction than launching it and hoping somebody's going to use it.
• 34:55
  That's a great point.
• 34:57
  Having a very defined marketing strategy for each bucket is actually critical.
• 35:02
  So who are the new endusers?
• 35:04
  Just new to both sets of vendors that we're going to go after.
• 35:07
  We're going to go after with this solution message for one set of endusers it's hey, you already buy product A but you don't buy product B.
• 35:15
  This is the problem it solves and then you do the vice versa and suddenly you're able to drive speed of execution in a way you could never do if you're just going after that new end users.
• 35:26
  Yeah, it's going after that new endusers but also really making sure you retention your current customer base as well.
• 35:35
  So I think that's really so cool of those stack partnerships, those alliance partnerships where you really get the best of both worlds.
• 35:41
  Yeah, exactly.
• 35:41
  And I think that's when we talk about giving, not taking, that's what's so great is you can market to your own end users.
• 35:50
  You're not going to make any money off that.
• 35:52
  That is a gift.
• 35:53
  But they are going to do the same to you and suddenly you've just got warm lead after warm lead because they're already buying 50% of the product stack is perfect.
• 36:03
  And so that's why forming these very high level strategic alliances and really betting those strategies in together is going to be fundamental for consistent speed of execution.
• 36:17
  Yeah, that's a really good way of looking at it actually.
• 36:20
  You give by showing your combined solution to your own customer base and they give back to you by doing the same.
• 36:27
  And the end user wins and you both win because everybody has the ultimate solution now versus the separate products beforehand.
• 36:35
  Yeah, exactly.
• 36:35
  And that's why for the CROs out there or for the senior Channext leaders out there, one of the things that I would highly stress have a look at what your product does well, have a look what it's missing.
• 36:49
  Build the integration or build a joint go to market strategy, form a strong alliance.
• 36:55
  It's going to help you play smart, not hard.
• 36:58
  And then maybe as the final topic, I think we kind of touched on co selling already when you do it to each other's end user base.
• 37:05
  So let's say the direct model, how do you see co selling alliance solutions through the channel?
• 37:11
  What kind of different approach do you need there?
• 37:13
  So the first thing I do is if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
• 37:16
  Try the same strategy through your partners.
• 37:19
  Right?
• 37:20
  So some of your partners will be currently selling both solutions separately.
• 37:24
  So get them to do that white space analysis, educate your partners that product A works really well with product B.
• 37:31
  Here's the problem it solves.
• 37:33
  Have you taken that to market through your existing end users and suddenly you'll find that they are very happy to take that product offering to market because one, it provably works, two, it delivers more value to the end user and three, they can make more money.
• 37:47
  It's a win win win.
• 37:49
  And taking that sort of educational message to partner, but supporting them with through partner marketing content is how you can really make their life easy.
• 38:00
  And that's a really strong go to market offer.
• 38:02
  So really help the partners to spread the message as well.
• 38:06
  But before creating something completely new for your true channel approach, just use the assets that you're already creating together for, let's say, your direct marketing and then use that for the channel and actually test and iterate from there.
• 38:20
  Yeah, exactly.
• 38:21
  And the channel can then provide their own unique input into that offering.
• 38:26
  So for example, a lot of these integrations require solution design, development, integration stories.
• 38:33
  There's a lot of value that the partners can deliver into that.
• 38:36
  Which means they're not just making the revenue of the extra product, but they're selling services over the top.
• 38:41
  And again, you're not thinking about yourself, you're thinking about how do I benefit the partner here, how do I benefit the endusers?
• 38:50
  And vendors who have that giving mentality over the long term always win.
• 38:55
  Partners love it because indeed, with every integration there comes service because it's never just we turn it on and it works magically, especially for most end users.
• 39:04
  So the better your partner can provide value there as well.
• 39:07
  They have also higher retention with the subscriptions they are selling from the SaaS products and they sell more products on.
• 39:13
  Top of it and it's unique.
• 39:15
  Right, that's the other thing that partners, especially in this very congested crowded market are really looking for is how are we different from the ten partners down the road?
• 39:25
  Well, integrating these stories together, having a really strong marketing strategy and solving very specific problems, that's unique value that they can provide.
• 39:35
  Yeah, maybe to tie it back to the start of our conversation where we said you need an orchestrator who orchestrates the full process of tying together all the products into one solution, one point of contact for the end user.
• 39:49
  There's no better person for that or no better company than the channel partner.
• 39:52
  And I think if you put them at the center of your strategy, whether it's with your alliances, with your tech partnership, but really check how can we enable that channel partner in the best way to actually beat that orchestrator towards the end user market.
• 40:07
  That's where you will get the best strategy because then you have co innovation, you start with it and see how can we combine our products in the best way?
• 40:14
  You test and iterate that together with partners, then you look at each other's combined partner base where you say hey, can we find new partners but also recruit them in an easier way.
• 40:25
  You co-market it both to your own direct end user base as through your channel partners and enable them in the best way.
• 40:33
  And then through co selling you enable your partners to actually create a full solution around it and bring it to market there.
• 40:40
  And I think indeed then we touched upon every topic there this episode and if you remember that then you will absolutely win with alliance partnerships and channel partnerships together.
• 40:51
  Yeah, I think the one final note from my side to the sort of senior sales leaders and senior alliance leaders out there is take consideration of the whole process.
• 41:01
  Just building the integration and hoping that the channel does what they want to do isn't enough.
• 41:07
  If you take time to really make sure that the integration is going to land in each one of the key specific areas that you just mentioned, you are going to be successful.
• 41:19
  Yes, you've heard it listeners, be humble and also make sure you're always proactive and from that perspective you will get the most success both with your alliance partnerships and your channel partnerships.
• 41:31
  I really enjoyed today.
• 41:32
  Again, thanks for your time Alex and thank you for listening.
• 41:35
  I really hope you enjoyed it as well.
• 41:38
  Make sure to share it with your colleague or send us a LinkedIn message.
• 41:42
  We always love to hear your feedback as well and hope to see you next week.