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The Art of Inquiry: Challenging Conventional Wisdom With Liz Heiman · Unstoppable Success Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everybody.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Unstoppable Leadership Spotlight podcast, where we hear from amazing leaders and we get their awesome insights and game-changing ways that have helped them propel in their business.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm Jacqueline Strominger, your host, and I want to welcome today Liz Hyman to the show.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: And just to give you guys a background, um, Liz is like this kick-ass sales professional, awesome rock star.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we live in the same town.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we've met before in person.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's such a pleasure to have you on as a guest.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you guys, like seriously, she's really truly remarkable.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: So she's got awesome wisdom and insight.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: So again, welcome to the Unstoppable Leadership Spotlight podcast, Liz.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little about you, your journey.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: My journey, I'm a sales consultant, and I literally grew up in the world of sales.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I grew up in a world where sales ops, sales process, sales systems were how we manage things.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really the beginning of that era of sales process and sales ops.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so now I help companies, a lot of manufacturing companies, to build that process around their sales.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's manageable and predictable.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you can actually have something that isn't total chaos.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I do.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've been doing this for very many years.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not admitting how many.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think you've been doing it for about not you've been doing it for a long time, but you don't look like you're you should be doing it for that long.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, Liz, tell me sales and the experience of sales.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Part of that is a huge proponent in leadership and working with companies.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me a little bit about what was a defining moment like in your in this journey where you realized the connection, I guess you could say, between leadership and sales.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I've always known that.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there came a point about 10 years ago, when I started realizing that these same leadership problems come up over and over again.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that people who are leaders of companies don't understand that they are also the sales leader.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Even if they have a sales leader, they are still the sales leader.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so because so many leaders, and whether, and I'm telling you, whether you have your very own company, it's just you, or whether you have three people or 10 people or 100 people or 3,000 people, you are still the head of sales.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't relinquish that.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so you can't be a great leader of a company or a nonprofit if you do not understand that you are also the sales leader.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that defining moment when I started talking to people over and over with company leaders over and recognizing they were having these same gaps.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the gaps was around strategy and leadership.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so all the tactics in the world don't solve that.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So when you see that issue, what is a tip or a tool that you could say for our listeners that they're in that same boat where they are they're the leader, they and there's a gap in the sales.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's something that they could do to help close that gap?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the first thing is that whether you're doing the sales yourself or whether you have people doing sales for you, is understanding that you have to manage that just like you manage any other part of your organization.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So to say, oh, that's just how sales is, oh, salespeople are just chaotic, oh, salespeople just do whatever, or to say, I really just don't have time to focus on sales, any of those kinds of things, it's important to back up and go, sales is a process, requires a system, just like operations requires process and systems, or accounting requires process and systems and accountability.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: If your bookkeeper or uh controller just decided not to pay the bills this week, you would never let that fly.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: If procurement just forgot to order the stuff that you need in order to do the work, that would never fly.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: You would never allow it.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: You have checks and balances to make sure those things happen.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: But in sales, we're like, oh, they're they're they're sales, they just do what they're doing.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: We we just like you have to have the products purchased in order to run your facility, you have to have leads developed in order to close something, right?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to understand this is a process like anything else.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So if you think about it that way and treat it that way, and remember that you have to order the product however long before it's gonna arrive, so you can start producing whatever is the final product, you have to start prospecting for your sales enough in advance that they'll be ready to close when you need them to.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: You can't just sit around and go, oh, now it's time to start selling and think tomorrow you're gonna have sales because you're not.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's that there is that balance between a lot of people, I think, in the sales enroll, it's like, all right, I had this huge sale, now I can sit back.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's we have to keep that going and it's keeping that process and that system moving, right?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're looking, when you're talking to leaders, and is there one thing that you could say, like that you could looking at an organization that says, oop, you know what?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: I can see uh from this 10,000-foot view that there's a disconnect between the leader and the sales.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: And if that is, like, what what is that view?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: What's the sign?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure they're not putting a big sign on their door or a bullseye that says we're disconnected.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's a couple of things.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: One is when everybody feels like chaos is running rough shot over the entire organization, or when they feel like sales is just chaos.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's unpredictable, it's unmanageable.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like everybody feels like sales is just doing their own thing and they're disconnected from the organization.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think the last one is when you have cash flow issues.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Cash flow issues are often the result of inconsistent sales.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes they're a result of something else.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're poor buying decisions or not managing profit margins or other things like that.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of the time, probably more often than not, if you're having cash flow, it's the result of poor sales management.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, true, very true.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: What part of that process between sales and leadership does vision and mission come into play?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: So huge.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's so huge.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So if if you think about your salespeople, if if if you're not doing the selling yourself, so if somebody else is doing the selling for you, they're going out and they're talking to people about your company and about your product, they're talking to people, lots of different people.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: And if you they are not really clear about the vision of your company so that they know who they should be selling what to, if they're not clear about the values that you hold.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Most people hire salespeople do not have the same values as they have for the rest of their company.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't make sense.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Why would you do that?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have values that you use to pick your clients and hire your people and how you treat your people and how you treat your clients, and then you hire salespeople that don't match that, of course it's going to be a problem because you have all these people with integrity and you think it's okay for your salespeople to not have integrity.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't work.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: That does not work, but you're not at a sales team that doesn't have integrity.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: The more you know about your mission, your values, your ideal customer, your value proposition, the better your sales team is equipped to go do the right things in the right way for your company.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't give them that framework, then they're just doing whatever they're doing.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever is the easiest dollars to close, that's what I'm doing.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's so I find it fascinating.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like to me, like sales is it is such a process.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm curious about the expansion part to for as we're looking at this from leadership and sales from the expansion of a business.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: When we start off, a lot of times you're the solopreneur, and then you start adding people and you're bringing people on, and the company gets bigger.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And at what point in that is it, yes, I need to bring somebody like I know the process because I've been doing it myself, but now I need to bring somebody in to help with the process.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like where is that in that path?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: So there are stages of growth and and scalability, and what you do at those different stages is different.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, in the very beginning, regardless of your whether you're a solar solopreneur or you're starting a startup, we have this thing called founder-led sales, and that is you're the person outselling.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then there comes a point where you either get investors or you are not able to focus on sales because there's so much else going on, but you have sales coming in, and the amount of sales coming in is creating too much work for you to do.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Those are times when you want to start thinking about okay, it's time to start hiring somebody can do that can do this.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: You can't hire someone to do that until you understand what it is they need to do.
• 9:38
  unknown: Right.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Once you understand that, then you can hire somebody.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the first person that you hire in a company is often what I call a cowboy, right?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's somebody who can rope and ride and brand and fix fences and camp out and do whatever needs to fix the truck, fix the horse, whatever needs to be done, that's what they do.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so you want your very first seller to be somebody who understands how to write value propositions, understands how to help you do your messaging, understands how to start thinking about a process.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: But they're going to be cowboys, they're going to do it by themselves, right?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't scale that.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: You can't scale a cowboy, you can't scale chaos.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: So as you start adding people, before you start adding more people, you need to have started to develop the process.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: What are the rules that we use?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: What are the guide rails?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: What are the what's the language?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can hire a second person.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now, that second person has to be a little bit entrepreneurial, cowboy-ish, but more following the rules.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then as you develop the organization and add people, the people will become more structured following rules as your organization begins to provide that.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the process.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: But the decisions about when it's time to hire somebody, it's when you can't do the sales and the work required to fulfill the sales.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: Not when most people think I can't develop the company and do sales.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: No, there's no point developing a company if you can't sell it.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's when the delivery, the management of the delivery becomes more than you can do and sell.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's actually that's a probably a really good key thing to, and I would put and I would say to people too, sometimes the money coming in may not be where you want it to be because you can't do both things.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: So there is for, therefore, there's the investment that has to happen to make that scale happen.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it takes time.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that I see most often is the unwillingness to give the salesperson the bandwidth, the runway that they need to be successful.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: I in fact, I just have seen a client hired a whole bunch of salespeople and fired them all before just as they were getting ready to deliver.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like after a year of really building all of the leads and everything, because sales can take a long time.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And especially if it's a business-to-business complex sale with a lot of people involved, it can take a year, 18 months, two years for some of these sales to come through.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: So patience.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you do not have the runway, the money to enable that person to build up the funnel, then don't do it.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And but that also means that you're checking in on them because if you just let them do whatever, and then all of a sudden the year is up and you're like, what are you doing?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And there's nothing in the funnel, and they haven't built out these relationships and there's nothing coming, it's too late to discover that.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: So from the very beginning, you have to manage that person and make sure that they're actually doing the work that they're saying they're doing and that it's going to evolve into business.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: I like I use the word, the terminology a lot of times, MMA, right?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: We have to measure, monitor, and adjust.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really important in that sales process where we have to measure and monitor the activities that we are doing and adjust it if we are not getting the context or making the business.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: But as the leader, we have to be checking in as well.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because you have to be not that we want to micromanage because we don't, but it is a check-in process.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: So people are going.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: What are you measuring?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: So when we're looking at sales, a lot of times managers or leaders are how many calls did you make?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: How many calls did you make?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: How many calls did you make?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care if you made a thousand calls to the wrong people, it's not going to deliver sales.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: So what I want to see is what are you putting in the top of the funnel?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: What's moving through it?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: What should my sales math look like?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: In order to close one deal, I probably have to have, you know, 30 conversations.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then I probably have to get at least 10 of those people to agree to have a conversation with me, right?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: So there's some math involved in this.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: And right, so you don't just want to measure how many phone calls they make, you want to measure how many leaves are they putting in the funnel and how are things moving through.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And they should be falling out along the way.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: This is the other thing that's really poor management is thinking that everything that goes into the funnel is going to close.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's not.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: You've got and you want to figure out what your stats are.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to measure something.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you pick something to start measuring and you watch the math and you adjust it as necessary.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: But if that person is not moving things through the funnel over the course of a year, they're not doing their job.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: So figure it out early.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's really key.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: That is really key.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you think?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you ever see or I should say, what do you think is that some leaders will check in and others won't?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is it a fear of or they or that they don't want to actually recognize the fact that people aren't doing their work?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, they don't know how to check in.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: So salespeople are very good at, oh, everything is great.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm, oh, I talked to this guy and I talked to that guy, but there's no pinning them down on what actually happened.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: What was the conversation?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: What's moving forward?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's learning how to have conversations with your salespeople, creating a common language in one of the places where there's always a lot of confusion is a salesperson will say, Well, get a verbal okay, and they'll go to the CEO and say, it's closed.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: They said, Yes, we got this deal, but we don't have this deal because nobody signed it yet.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: And as many as 50% of those deals that are verbal approvals don't come through, or they take a month or two months.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's what is the language that you're using to communicate around this?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then once you have that, you can you can have better conversations.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: But if you just said, like, how did that meeting go?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: How's it going?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: How's this lead going?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna get really vague answers.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not what you want.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: What you really want to understand is what are the leads that are in process?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Where are they in the process?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Why were they getting stuck?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Why did it fall out of the funnel?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Was that good or bad?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And what's our next action?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And what do you need from me to be successful?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's what a conversation needs to sound like.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And people don't understand how to do that.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's yeah, and you know what it's so important to understand that you have to verbal is one thing, but you have to get you have to get there knowing that the person that you're selling to is 100% bought in and excited about it and ready to and like you need the signature and the check.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: It isn't sold until you have a signature and a check.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: At least a signature that says when they're starting and when they're ready for it.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: So in your process, is what has been maybe one thing that has where you have seen either a resistance or something that you know, maybe it didn't go the way that you planned in the cycle of sharing leadership and sales that then became a transformation for you.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh, there have probably been so many along the way the realization that tactical for me, tactical was not the solution.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: So there are a lot of people that teach tactics, and I still do sometimes teach tactics for people.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: But in the beginning, I thought going and doing basic sales training was fine, it was great.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Teach people how to be sellers, and as as this journey has continued and I've evolved, I've come to really understand that it isn't about the tactics, it's about the strategy.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: The tactics fall in after you have strategy.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And every time I teach tactics before we have strategy, they never get the results that they want.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: But if we start with strategy and we're really clear about what we're doing, why we're doing it, how we're going to do it, then we can talk about what is those, what are those interactions with our clients need to sound like?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: What skills do we need to develop as salespeople in order to do this?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: But if I don't have the the plan for where we're going and how we're going to get there, those tactics, yeah, they'll be better salespeople, they'll have better conversations, but are they having the right conversations with the right people about the right things?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And if they're not, then it doesn't matter how good their tactics are.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really knowing and focusing on it's obviously strategy, it is so important, but really having people dive deep into who they're going to go after and who their focus is.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're gonna because you can speak to two different people, you can speak to people two different ways, or everybody has got a different language, and you can speak to one person one way and another person another way, but you're really gonna need to know who that who you're honing in on.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: With the crazy with the world that we've got going on today, obviously with social media and people always say nobody talks to anybody on the phone anymore.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, what do you see?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you teach people, I guess you could say, or what's your tip for people to say to get in front of somebody, to make that connection.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: So the the first thing I want to say is there is so much noise.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much noise out in the world right now that most people who are in business can't even they can't even keep up with what they need to.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: I get 4,000 emails a year.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, sorry, a month.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: I get 4,000.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, that's not a lot.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Can I feel you?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: A month.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm constantly struggling through looking at what is in my inbox, what do I need to find?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: What can I delete?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: I often delete things I shouldn't.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: I often miss things that are important because there's so much noise, and I try to organize and filter out and all of these things, but it just doesn't always work.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you're sending email after email and people aren't responding to you, they may not even be seeing your emails.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: You may, they may be going to junk, they may just be getting lost.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And if they don't know you and you have no reputation and your company has no reputation, they're not gonna read your email.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're counting on email to be your savior, so you don't have to talk to people, it's not gonna work.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: What we have to do is be really creative.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: We have to understand where our buyers are and how they're interacting.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, are most of my buyers in their 30s?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Are most of my buyers in their 50s?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Are most of my buyers in their 70s?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: I need to know that because how I communicate with them, not just the words that I use, but the channel that I use is going to be different.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so I can't say this is the tip, this is the thing that you should be doing.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think old-fashioned channels picking up the phone, particularly when you're mid-sales process, leaving a message.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: My if you have an Apple phone now, it's really cool.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: I can leave a message, somebody can leave a message and I can actually watch that message and see what they're saying and pick up in the middle if I want to.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you actually have an opportunity now.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right to see, to get somebody's attention.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's it's thinking about what send a card, drop by cookies.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: What let's go back to some of the old-fashioned interactions.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you may not be able to drop off cookies if you're in Arizona and they're in New York, but being creative and and reaching out across channels and then making sure your message is about them and not you, those are the things that will help.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: But it's hard and it's getting harder.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Use AI as much as you can to help you make the right message for the right people.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's actually, I think it's really key.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a firm believer.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Drop a card in the mail.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: I use there's a couple Things that I use myself, but putting something in the mail to somebody is I go back to it still works, right?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Mail works, the phone works.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I whether I'm old school or not, I I still like to pick up the phone and talk to somebody and just say, Hey, I was looking at something, or maybe you read something about somebody in the newspaper or online or whatever you're gonna read somebody.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you could pick up the phone and say something.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Phone can be powerful.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's not powerful if you're using a general number and it just looks like spam.
• 22:37
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because hundreds and hundreds of calls are coming out from that number.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's not terribly powerful.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Picking up your cell phone and calling somebody might work.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: But you think you just have to figure out who your audience is and try different things.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: But it's funny, my my parents have been in have were manufacturers' reps and so all the time, like just picking up the phone to reach out and connect with people.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's one of those things when I talk to clients even now, and I will say to them, Oh, you should why don't you just pick up the phone and do some like figure out who the right person to talk to?
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost which is to me one of the biggest things that we could learn, one of the biggest things for leadership, I think, is teaching people to have those connections still and using our voice because that's what people we're humans, right?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we have generations of young people coming up now that that don't have the interpersonal skills.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: I I was with um somebody who teaches act teaches acting this morning, and she said the first thing that they do is teach them, they literally sit in a circle and say, look in the other person's eyes.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: They don't do it, they're not engaged in that way.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to understand that the this generation is coming up without those skills, and we are going to have to teach them to them.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's that's and and that's a it's a huge teaching is a huge part of I believe in that leadership.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: So Liz, I could talk to you for hours and hours.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: I really could, because I think it's I think there's so many, you have so much great wisdom.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love to have you come back and we can talk more, but share with everybody how they can connect with you if because listeners, if you have a product, a service, or something that you need to sell or that you're promote, it's gotta be selling.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to connect with Liz.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: So how can people find you?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's two ways.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: One is to go to my LinkedIn, Liz Hyman, H E I M A N.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the only one.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Go there, tell them, tell me where you met me or saw me, and ask if we can chat.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm happy to do that.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing is you can go to my website, regarding sales.com, and schedule a 30-minute strategy call with me, and it is free, and I'm happy to do that.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, guys, take her up on that offer.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Free 30-minute strategy call.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: So important to have.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: So important.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much, Liz, for being on.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Unstoppable Leadership Spotlight Podcast.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Jacqueline Strauminger, your host.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a leadership story or have something you would like to share with a great insight or something that was game-changing for you, go to my website, leaptoyoursuccess.com, and click on the podcast link because we'd love to have you as a guest.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have not yet subscribed, please click the button to subscribe.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we cannot wait for you to hear this episode and connect with Liz.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: And again, have a wonderful day and be unstoppable.