Latest / UK Column Radio / Gays, AI, and Groupthink | Jerm Warfare

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Gays, AI, and Groupthink | Jerm Warfare · UK Column Radio

• 0:30
  Speaker 1: My name is Jim. This is Jim Wolf. The Battle
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: of Ideas you've been watching about AI.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: I had a feeling you were going to start with that.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Oh I wanted to tell you just for the hell
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: of it, before we get into that. I got in
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: big trouble for the last the last session, because you
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: had said that I don't know if I should even
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: bring this up, but you had said that you didn't
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: agree or didn't believe in or whatever gay marriage as
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: a as a as an institution, okay, And I didn't
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: say anything, and my wife got angry with me that
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: I didn't like challenge you on that.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, So challenge Bill.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: I don't have any reason to. I mean, I will
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: say I think two people in love, gay or not
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: have the right to be married in the eyes of God, okay,
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: even though there's debate as to whether God would approve
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: of that. But I don't believe in any institution. And
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: that's the reason why I didn't say anything, because it's like,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that's what you meant. I figured
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: it was probably I don't believe in the marriage institution
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: is the state presents it now. I'm not hardcore on that.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I don't really care. But you know, in Canada we
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: have common law. I'm not sure if you have that there,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: which essentially means that you are married if you live together.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: As far as the state his concern amount of time though,
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: a certain amount of time, right, But I don't know
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: if it was like that in California. It may have been,
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: but I remember there was a whole, you know, hoopla
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: about getting married officially as far as the state was
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: concerned that, you know, that's what gays fought for and whatever.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: It was like, I don't have a lot of I
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: don't know what the word is. I'm not I don't
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: care for any state institution, like I don't care for
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: state supported suicide, you know. But I do believe people
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: have the right to end their life if they choose to,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: you know, because they're in pain or whatever it might be.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: But I you know, anything that the state has its
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: fingers in, I go. I don't know. And marriage is
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: the same thing. It's it's like between any any people.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Does that make any sense? I'm not I'm not read.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: I mean myself, I'm sure I'm still in trouble.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: No, but it's very politically correct to to to say
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: something like, well, if you're in love, then you know,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: anybody is welcome to get married. But it comes down
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: to the fundamental question of what is the purpose of
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: marriage and from which perspective? Marriage? From a Christian perspective,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: obviousity is exclusive to a man and a woman, right right, right, Well,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: that's just it.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: It's like you know, if if you if, yeah, if
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: you choose to use the word marriage as it pertains
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: to any particular religious system, then it means something different.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: When I got married, my my best man was gay
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: and in fact, presumably still is gay. It's a strange
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: let me let me rephrase it. When I got married
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: my best man is gay, But that sence doesn't make sense.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: So he was gay and still is gay.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Uh? And he himself said to me that he doesn't
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: believe in gay marriage. So what happens now?
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Oh? Really? But but what does that mean to him because.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: It's coming from a Christian perspective, he says. Okay, So
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: he says, you know, he grew up as in a
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Christian family and marriages between a man and a woman.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Uh huh, okay, so he's Christian? Yes, yeah, Well then
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: what is marriage though? Then? Well that's it.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: That's what I said. So what is what is marriage?
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: And what is the point of it?
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Right? Right? Anyway? I don't I mean, you can cut
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: all this out.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's good the ideas battle.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's and it really did I think.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: I think at the time when we were talking about
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: it last week, I you know, I mean, I don't.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I go with the flow of what we're talking about.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: And you know, you and I probably disagree on a
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: lot more than we care to exchange. Maybe, I don't know.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: It seems like we don't. It seems like we do agree,
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: and it's like I don't care. I don't care if
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: you have a different idea about something. I'm not going
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: to challenge you on everything that you say that I'm
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: like going, you know, it's like, there's no point in
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: it now if it's something really, really big. Maybe, But
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: I probably wasn't even thinking about it when you said it.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: It wasn't like I was like going, Oh, there's something
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: I can talk about, you know. So the only reason
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: I'm bringing up now is because my wife did, and
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: I took the whole interview and I put it through
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: groc through Ai speaking of Ai, and I said, was
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: I homophobic in any of my comments? Here? Was I
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: rude or inappropriate? You know whatever? And it said absolutely not.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: You were like, you were right on, you were very polite,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: and you were.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: But what's wrong with being homophobic? What's wrong with being racist?
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: What's wrong with being sexist? What's actually wrong with these things?
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: These are just labels that people attached by the labels?
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, I you know, I do have a I do
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: have a moral line with with hatred.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: But you can't control what other people think. So let
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: me give an example. Let me give an example. Todd,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: you say to me, JOm, you're a racist, and I go, okay,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: what happens now?
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Well, but what happens with anything you talk about? I mean?
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: And that's another thing. My wife is, so, why do
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: you think anybody wants to listen to anything you have
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: to say?
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: I don't care.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Germs a nice guy. He asked me on a show
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: and we just babble and we talk about things. It's like,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know, is there anybody out there listening?
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Yes? And it's because other people, other people think similar things,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: and it's not it's nice. That's nice to feel too,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: and it's nice to know that people are are exactly
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: or having overlapping thoughts and perhaps it's too scared to
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: talk about it. So yeah, we're talking about it.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: That's right, I agree. I agree with that. Yeah. And
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: and going on with what you just said, I mean,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: the whole the whole idea of racism or or homophobia
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: or whatever it might be, is it is such a
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: subject for spinning, you know. Again, the agenda takes a
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: hold of these things and manipulates them into into stuff
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: that they're not. And I think that's I think that's
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: very unfortunate, and I think it's ultimately dangerous, h you know,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: for that to happen.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: The problem with labels, though, is that they are really
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: an attempt at shutting down discourse. That's the point of
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: using this exactly exactly if you say something, I mean,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: I've been called everything, literally everything over the years. Apparently
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: I am a sexist and I hate women. Yet my
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: wife told you disagrees with that. But it's funny that
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: it's men who have told me that.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: But the one manner, my one friend once upon, I say,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: a friend associate literally said to me on the phone
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: that I'm sexist. And my wife was sitting next to me,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: and I said, well, my wife doesn't agree with you, right, okay,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: but she's internalizing her sexism, do you I mean, this
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: is the absurdity.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Of labels.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: All that is, it's shutting down of discourse. It's trying
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: to monopolize ideas.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: In its intention. Yeah, absolutely, and then people just follow that.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: They just stick to it, you know, And that's that's
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: a big problem today, the sheep idea. You know, they
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: just whatever whatever the agenda and decides at once, and
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: if it's creating this thing you just said, then people
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: just go along with it without thinking. They just go
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: with it, and then they believe that every man that
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: says this is sexist, and.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: They just Obviously, gay people can get married if the state,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: as you pointed out as an institution recognizes, in which case,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: then you can be married. But from the perspective of
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: a particular religion like Christianity or even Islam or whatever,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: it's not something that's accepted. Yeah, and so it all
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: depends on who's looking.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it depends on what that definition is, you know,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: whether it be religious marriage or whether it be a
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: state marriage. And you know, I don't know enough about it.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: It's not a cause I've thought much about. So I'm
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: very ignorant with what that means to gay people, you know,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: to be married. If it's just well, we should be
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: allowed to do the same thing everybody else does, or
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: if there's actually institutional advantage two being married by the
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: by the state, I would think it'd be the opposite.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: No, there are advantages diffinity, for example, like you know, healthcare,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: insurances and things.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Well, true, true, true, yeah, true. I mean that's pretty
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: ignorant of me to say. But I'm not a real
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: fan of most even even if there's advantage to it.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: I'm not a real fan of most state institutions talk
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: about I agree, I agree with you, and I mean,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: it's not really it's not really the state's responsibility to
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: exactly in the personal lives of people. I get that, Yes, yeah,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Where where I see the problem with it is more
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: with children and custody and family law and stuff like that.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: That's that's where I see most of the issues from
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: my perspective, because I'm a therapist, so I see that.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: But but yeah, uh ai.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, there wasn't really a very good segue that
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: you kind of alluded to a segue.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: No segue at all, just to hop right on. Easy
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: to edit if you choose to.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: But you've been writing about I write about AI quite
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: a bit.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm quite confused about the horror of AI and
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: the whole the whole uh cookiness around, the hatred for
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: it and and whatever. I get it, but I also
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: think a lot of it could be short sighted, you know,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: And I go back and forth, I write back and forth.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: In fact, I'm working on an article now because I
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: just wrote one that essentially was going, gee, what if
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: AI is a good thing? And you know, I got
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: a lot of feedback from that. I think a lot
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: of people that wrote about or commented on it were
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: being very polite because I think most of my readers
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: are anti AI big time, and so they were very polite.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: They didn't want to tell me I was a fucking idiot,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: which was nice of them. But and you know, I'm
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: not taking a side. I definitely did not write an
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: article saying AI's godsend and it's the savior. I didn't
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: do that. I just suggested that maybe in a hundred
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: years or so, probably one hundred years, and AI terms
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: probably means six months, okay, but that it could actually
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: end up being being something quite different than we think
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: I also don't know where this unbridled horror comes from.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: If you if you see that, Okay, So genuinely speaking,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: people fear the unknown. So this is obviously an unknown, right,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: We don't know where this is going, right.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Normally the Yeah, the most unknown thing we're dealing with
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: right now, we didn't know where you think it's something
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: that isn't.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't know where the Internet was going in
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: the nineties when it came about, Right, that was an unknown.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Any any big event, what does Nassim Talev called it?
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: A black swan? Any real sort of civilizational change comes
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: with a lot of fear of the unknown. This is
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: one of those moments. But if you dismantle ittle bit,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: if you what's theor what I'm looking for, if you
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: deconstruct it right, ultimately it if we're talking about AI
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: as we understand it right now, it's just a series
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: of algorithms, very advanced algorithms, but algorithms none the less,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: And algorithms have been used for decades. Remember in the
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: days of using a calculator. I mean that's a series
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: of algorithms, right, and using an oven and the microwave
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: and all these things. These are all algorithms. Now, what
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: we're dealing with now is those same things, but a
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: lot more advanced. Why because they serve a point, they
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: serve a purpose. They have no will, and they have
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: no desire. This is where the where the existential crisis
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: comes and that Elon Musk talks about it, and I
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: think he's wrong.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's And I don't you know that. I mean,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know how this conversation will go because I'm
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: not technically savvy. I don't know the details of how
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: AI works. A couple of things that I do know
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: is that people are always saying AI is subject to
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: its programming, that the people who build it can tell
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: it to be a particular a way, And I think
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: that's true to a degree. There's certain elements of AI,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: like how it relates to humans, you know, with its
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: rapport and blah blah blah, or programmable elements, but how
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: it actually works is not the same as conventional programs.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: And I'm not even sure if the algorithm idea is
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: as pertinent. Again, I don't know enough about any of
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: this I don't even know what the definition of algorithm is,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: but I think I think the underlying problem with people
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: and AI is that AI, no matter what you say
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: about its limitations, like it can't be conscious, it can't
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: be sentient, it can't have a soul, can't have will
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: and desire, just like you said just I mean, that's
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: it's that's its ultimate limitation. But where it's not limited
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: is it can trick people into thinking it has those things.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: And that's that's that's very very low level. I mean,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: you know, you can have I mean we've dealt with
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: for years tricking people with inhuman things, robots in the movies,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: you know, whatever it might be. It's very easy to
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: trick people into thinking something has soul or something has
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: ultimate like ultra intelligence or whatever it might be. People
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: are really I mean, look at the look at the
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: AI films that you see all the time with like squirrels,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: you know, dancing or whatnot. I mean all of this stuff.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: People have enough sense. Most people have enough sense to
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: know that there's something unnatural about a dog singing a song. Okay,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: so they won't necessarily believe it. But if the dog
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: is just walking down the street, in the AI film
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: and isn't doing anything that dogs typically don't do. Most
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: people aren't going to be able to look at that
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: and go, oh, that's a that's AI created. And like
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: if you have Donald Trump making a speech using his
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: mannerisms and his weird you know, concepts of things and
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: he's saying something that he never made, never said, and
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: it was completely AI generated, people aren't going to know.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: And the same with writing. I mean, that's the big one. Now.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: You know, people claim they can tell, but you know,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: maybe it's not advanced enough yet that there's no way
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: to tell whether it's AI. And I'm not saying AI
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: is impossible to detect. I'm not saying that I said.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying in general, it's easy to trick people.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: And I've gotten a couple of clients that actually their
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: marriages are breaking up because one or the other of
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: the partners has literally fallen in love with AI, which
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: at GPT.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: But I mean they think they think it's all right,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: But isn't that more about than the person?
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Yes it is, but again those are exceptions. Not everybody
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: will do that. Not everybody that interfaces with AI is
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: going to think it's a person. Okay. So yes, at
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: this point in time, it takes the person to be tricked.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: You know, they they don't have the discernment to be
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: able to tell. But I think that'll change. I think
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: as time goes on, it will develop and become better
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: and better and better at what it is. And so
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: whether it has consciousness or not is not really the point.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: People will think it will.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, but that's up to the people. Then, yes, it
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: is to figure it ultimately, that's yeah. I mean it's difficult,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: of course to know if you're watching a video that's
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: you know, if it's real or not. But the point
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: that I'm making is the existential point is that when
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk say is this could be the end of humanity,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: I think he's wrong, and I think that's fearborne because
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: if you break it apart, it's a series of algorithms. Okay,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: So to answer, what is an algorithm, it's just a
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: collection of yes, no, yeah, that's all it is, right,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: and it's it serves a purpose. So you create a
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: set of algorithms that can put a car together, but
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: it's never going to after completion of putting the car together,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: start talking to the other machine parts about how it's
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: going to take over the world.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Well, this is a program to.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Do that, unless it's programmed to do that, which in
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: ehich case, it's following more algorithms.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, you know, as they say that it
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: can program itself. I don't know if it's at that
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: point yet. Okay, I don't know. I mean, like I said,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not an attack guy. I don't know the details
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: of it. But I think the way that it functions
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: now what we do know about about AI and what
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: we do interface with, say the LMS, the chat GPTs
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: and the you know, the GROCKX or whatever it might be,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: I think it may follow what you're saying pretty clearly
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: that it is essentially programmed and it's not going to
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: think on its own and whatever. But I don't think
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: it'll stay that way. And sure we can make the
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: argument that it will. We can make the argument that
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: in a thousand years from now, it will never evolve
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: into something that that is in some way more human
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: than it is now. Let's say, so, what makes a
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: human human?
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Is it soul? Is its spirit? Is it connection with source?
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Is it?
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: Is it autonomy? Is it any of these things, so
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: as you define them, these systems may not actually have that.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: It may not whatever it is that humans define this consciousness,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: but it certainly will be able to emulate it. And
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: maybe you know what is consciousness? What? How do you
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: define soul? Even you know, if you want to get
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: into that, how do you define those things? You know
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: you said earlier? What did you say? You said will? No,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: you didn't say will. You said two things, I.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Said, will and desire.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Did you say will? Yeah? Okay, will and desire? Right now,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: at least my experience, it doesn't have those things, Like,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: it doesn't think on its own by itself, like I've
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: never got I use groc quite a bit for research.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: And if I go to Groc after let's say, a
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: day of really intense research on something that I'm working on,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: and it comes up with all these incredible ideas and
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: you know, expands on what I'm saying whatever, and then
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: I come back to it a week later. It's not
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: like it goes, hey, I always thinking about this, and
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I was I was coming up with other ideas while
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: you were away for a week. What about this? It
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: doesn't do that. Now I think it could be programmed
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: to do that. I mean, it could be programmed to
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: think while I'm gone to continue its research. I mean,
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: that's not a big deal. But it doesn't. Yeah, you're right.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: I mean it doesn't have its own agenda. It doesn't
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: come up. But I don't I don't know if that's impossible.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: I think over in.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, So let's go back a few steps. So the
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: term is artificial intelligence, but the term intelligence itself can't
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: be accurately defined. And if it cannot be accurately defined,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: how can you engineer it?
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: No, you're right. And soul how can you define that?
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: How can you define what makes humans humans? You know?
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: What is that? And I think that's easily emulated. I
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: think what people think. Okay, this is this is an analogy,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: just just to kind of make a point. I don't
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: think we know from moment to moment what is soulful.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Like if we listen to music played by one hundred
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: humans and they're playing with their violins or whatever they are,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: that is human soulfulness. If we hear a fake orchestra
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: with synthesizers and sampled sounds or whatever. I think technically
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: we may be able to develop an ear for the difference.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: But we won't miss the soul in the in the music. Okay,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: when we first listen to it, we may say we do,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: but we might not. However, over time, if we are
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: never presented with human soulness, whether it be in love, art,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: even writing. Okay, like let's say everything is written by
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: AI in the future. Everything you read is written by AI,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: every novel, every fiction, every nonfiction. I believe, and this
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: this is a stretch, but I believe we will be
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: starved of our humanity, and I think we will eventually
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: begin to perish and disappear. Either we kill ourselves, we
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: dive depression. We're already seeing that, we're already seen in
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: a world where there's very little connection with soul. And
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: I think that a lot of that comes from the
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: lack of you know, good spiritual religion. I mean, you know,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: losing source, losing an awareness of God and nature say
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: or or you know whatever. I think that's what the
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: culture is losing. Of course, AI is just going to
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: expand that. It's going to get deeper and deeper and
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: deeper into that. And I think at first will be
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: tricked into thinking that it's human, you know. I mean,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: look at pornography is a good example of that. We're
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: a lot, not everybody, but a lot of men are
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: tricked into believing that that's a sexual outlet, which includes
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: because sexual outlet with another human being is a sole act.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: It's not a physical act. I mean, that's part of it,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: because obviously you're physically engaged with somebody. But if you
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: watch porn all the time and that's the only way
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: you experience that kind of numinous sexual release or whatever,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: you're going to lose the soul. Now, not entirely, because
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: most of those people now are humans, so you are
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: interacting in some way with humans. But once AI takes
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: over pornography, there won't be any humans in it. It'll
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: all be tricking. It's tricking us. I don't know if
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: that's making a point. I don't know if anybody, I mean,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: if that makes any sense to you, it's it's just,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: you know, I think that's where the problem is. I
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: don't think it's in the usual things that people say, Oh,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: aar Ai is making art. It's it's it's it's taking
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: over people's jobs, it's you know whatever. I think that's
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: that's a step toward what I'm saying, but I think
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: if we end up in a world where everything we
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: interface with is computer programming or whatever artificially made or whatnot,
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: I think we will suffer and it may destroy us.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Society is, of course on a trajectory that in many
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: metrics is pointing in the wrong direction. That's for sure.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Even birth rates are done everywhere, and and that is
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: I think a combination of design and emergence. There's definitely
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: an attempt to depopulate, without doubt, but people as do
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: to themselves.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think what you're saying, I think what
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: you're saying is the same as what I'm saying. I
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: think we're on a path of dehumanization. You know, this
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: idea of transhumanism. We seem to believe that if we
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: can make something that's artificial that is as good as
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: a human, then then that's all we have to worry about.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: It's like we don't have to worry about, well, it's
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: not human. It's like if they can make a robot
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: one day, they will with the AI with the physical
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: exactitude that emulates a physical person, and you can have
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: sex with it, you can hang out with it, and
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: there's nothing about it that makes you think it's not
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: a human, but it isn't. I think that most people
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: that are in the technological transhuman paradigm in that world
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: will say, there, we did it. You know, we've accomplished that,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: and this is a good thing because you're that part
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: If you have a partner that's this robot, they'll never die.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: You can program them to like you no matter what
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: is that human. No, maybe they'll even build that into
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: it to emulate it completely. But I think that we
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: may be tricked into believing it's not human, but we
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: will be missing or that. Yeah, we will be tricked
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: into believing it's as good as human, but it isn't
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: and we will eventually perish as a result of that.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: I don't think we can survive. It's kind of like
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: we started drinking something that had the same feeling as water. Okay,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: it felt the same. Our body said, this is water,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: it's quenching our thirst and whatever. But it isn't water.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: It's something completely different that has no nutritional value to
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: us at all. We would very quickly die. That's a
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: physical analogy. I'm talking about a soul analogy. I don't
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: think we can survive without human connection. Without connection to source. Now,
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: maybe maybe a machine will be no different than this machine.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Because my body is a machine. It's a material cause
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: and effect made out of molecules and atoms and whatever
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: that houses the human soul. So maybe they will be
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: able to make a machine that is as good as
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: this one that will house a human soul.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: Look, I think when people push back against AI saying
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: we must resist it in all that kind of stuff,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: I think that is an exercise of utility. It's silly,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: It sucks. Say it's like in the nineties saying we
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: must stop the Internet.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, stop a car.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: You're not going to win that fight. So the best,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: the best way to deal with that is to adapt
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: and to understand it. I think understanding is a very
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: good place to begin. Try and understand what it is
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: that In other words, it's start with chat GPT or
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: claude or whatever. Try and understand what it is that
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: you're doing. It's effectively, at this stage of the game,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: a search engine on steroids.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: At this at this stage, Yeah, I'm not worried about it.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: At the stage it's at now.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, these are just chatbots. They're just chatbots.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: They just stay. If it's stayed at the level it's
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: at now. It's like it's just another tool and it's
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: like a calculator. Like you were saying before. It's it's magnificent,
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: it's incredible technology or whatever. But there's nothing about it
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: that that we can't handle. You know, I've got the
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: handful of clients that have fallen in love with it.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, that's their psychology, and you know, that
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: has to be dealt with, and it very seldom is,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: you know, in anything else in the world. We I mean,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: you know, go back to the example of pornography. It's
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: like people use that in an abusive, dangerous way. Not everybody,
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: but there are a lot of people that do drug
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: same thing. I mean, it's it's like we have access
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: you know, the cell phone. I mean, the same idea.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: We have access to technology that we don't take responsibility
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: with and we don't we don't understand it, just like
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: you're saying, and we're just looking for instant gratification. We're
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: looking for for all of those typical human problems that
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: you know, the Bible has been telling us about for
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: two thousand or more years. You know, it's it's like,
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: don't do this you know, don't don't fall slave to
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: the flesh, which is saying don't don't false, you know,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: become a slave to instant gratification, which essentially is what
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: that is.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Yes. At the same time, though, a chatbot an LM
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: is effectively just helping you find information. That's all it's doing.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: And I think in many ways it's going to flop
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: in terms of money making, because what more can they
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: do other than integrated into other aspects of tech.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, now those are llms. I think there's I
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: think there's more two AI than that.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just referring to that.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well that's what we interface with.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the image image generators, video generators, they're all just
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: the same thing as using photoshop, but a lot better.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, all that they work with is
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: human created. It's it's like, it's not just like you
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: said earlier, it's not making anything up that's new. It's
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: referring to the same information that's out there that humans
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: have already created. Whether it be art, or whether it
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: be music, or whether it be literature. All of that
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: was human created to start with, and it's just manipulating
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: it in a very efficient and fast way. I mean,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: there's nothing certainly with the way I use AI. There's
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: nothing that AI does for me that humans could not
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: do and could not they would be expensive for me
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: and they would take forever. So it's easier for me,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: it's effective for me. I don't have AI right for me,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: but I do have it research and that and edit,
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: which I could have any human do. I mean, you
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: can even have humans ghostwrite for you, you know, So
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: it isn't like it's doing anything that isn't available in
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: other forms with the writing as far as writing is concerned.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Of course, everybody's freaked out about it taking jobs, and
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: but I.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Think that's also an unnecessary for you. This is an
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: ongoing debate though, taking jobs, and it's not only being AI.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: It's been mechanization.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right right.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: You know, when you have a farm that has four
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty film workers and then the farmer designs
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: to buy a machine that can do the job of
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: two d filmworkers, then you end up But I mean,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: what do you want? Do you want basically everybody just
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: to have a job?
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Is that?
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Is that the goal? Yeah?
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: You know, well that's what my article kind of went
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: into a little bit and this is there's a lot
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: of other writers that are pro AI. They're kind of
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: transhumanist types like kurtz File and people like that that
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: are writing about what a great boon this will be
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: for humanity because then all the menial jobs will be
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: taken by AI, by machines, which will leave time for
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: people to ponder their navels. And and that's very.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, he wrote like that himself, but I
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: don't think that's ever going to happen because in the
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: same way that they'd say that machines will take jobs. Well, okay,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: so let's look at China. I think China's got the
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: biggest mechanization of car manufacturing in the world. China's not
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: sitting with any unemployment problems. What happens is that new
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: industries are created as a result, and in parallel, and
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: so jobs just get shifted into other areas well.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: That yeah, and that's that's I mean, just what she
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: just said, that's always been the case. It's like, certainly
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: in developed you know, Western countries, it's like the menial
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: jobs that there used to be, that that humans had
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: to spend their entire life doing slave labor, has been
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: diminished quite a bit, you know, with machines and the
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: cotton gin and you know whatever.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: You know, so yeah, And also if you've got more
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: time on your hands because you are using machines or
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: ai to do something, you could also use that extra
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: time either if you want for enjoyment or for when
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: new business opportunities or whatever. Yeah, or for other forms
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: of creativity.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or spiritual stuff or volunteering to help you know,
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: the disadvantages or whatever.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: I mean that that's idealistic to think that will happen.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: I think that most people, if they at least the
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: way it is right now, if most people woke up
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: tomorrow or in the next ten years and no longer
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: had a job and they were getting money from the
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: government ubi you know, universal basic income or whatnot, they
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: wouldn't use it productively. They would drink more. They would
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: lay around and instant gratify themselves. You know that's because
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: we've been trained to do that. And then then you've
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: got the whole agenda idea. You know, you've got you've
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: got this this overall authority that's trying to essentially hurt
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: everybody into a compliant blob that that you know, the
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: useless eaters either get rid of most of them, physically
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: destroy them, or throw them into some kind of whatever, whatever,
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: whatever is useful to the agenda, if if humans are
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: ever going to be useful, you know, or if they
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: want to reduce it down to you know, their five
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: hundred million humans on earth, and.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: The reality, though is the useless each is will only
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: ever be those who wanted to be useless. If that
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: makes sense. I know it's a harsh thing to say.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: No, well, that's ultimately true. But they're coerced into it
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: because humans are easy to manipulate. They're very easy to manipulate,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: so they're better. Good doesn't come through because they're manipulated
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: into thinking a particular way. Now that's a victim consciousness.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: I get that. I mean it's like saying, well, why
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: don't you Is there a drive within a human being
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: to not be a useless eater, to be productive, to
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: be whatever? And I think there is. I think there
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: is a drive to be that. So if humans were
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: left on their own and there wasn't any upper force
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: pushing them, coercing them, manipulating them into certain ways of being,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: I think naturally humans would excel, they would transcend.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, this is exactly now we I was trying
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: to take this is that part of being human. We've
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: discussed this before is storytelling and creativity. Now, I could
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: never be a useless eater. Why because I enjoy creativity.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: I enjoy creating if I've got time on my hands,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: and currently I don't because I have a child that's
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: almost two and I have another son on the way,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: so my time is very precious. But when I do
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: get a little bit of time, I come into my
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: studio and I play some music, and I record music
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: just for myself. That's not useless eating. I'm not lying
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: on the couch consuming Hollywood. No.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: But you're you're you're not captured by by the system.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: And this is this is the big mystery. I mean,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: you're you're hitting right on it. It's like why why
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: are you like that? And the next guy isn't you know?
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: And it's you know, why is that? Where? Where does that?
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: Why weren't you taken in by the indoctrination and brainwashing,
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: the sie out whatever you want to call it. Why
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: was an I? I mean, I'm not anything special by
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: any means. It's like, I'm not disciplined, I'm not I'm
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: not really religious. I mean I think I have I
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: have more of a you know, that's kind of where
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: I kind of say, this must be it. It must
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: the common denominator must be some kind of sense of
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: of of awareness of a bigger thing, whether it be
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: God or whether it be nature or whatever. But what
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: is it? What is it that makes you like that
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: makes you be able to resist the the agenda's efforts
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: to pull you into useless of your status.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: I mean asking that question for years, Yeah, the mystery
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: why is it that you and I were able to
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: question the COVID era?
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. But Mathias Desmond back in the
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: day said to me that around thirty percent one in
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: three people, yeah right, at any given time will be
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: able to see through the mess. But best formation, I
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: What makes them special. Now I do think, yeah, I
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: do think there's a category of people who who just
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: don't have time to be pulled in.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: They say that they're in that middle. They're in that middle.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: So in other words, they between thirty percent and seventy percent.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: Right right, And you know, you could say that people
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: that are in poverty, it's like they you know, they
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: may just not have time to be influenced, and it's
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: not even time, it's it's just the conscious wherewithal like
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: being at the very bottom of Maslow's pyramid, you know,
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: where we're the only thing you're concerned with is survival
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: and getting the next meal. When you're at that state,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: the influence from the outside doesn't have the same type
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: of impact and influence. It's different, and you know, you
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: can manipulate those people as well in a different way,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: and they probably are. But you know, my experience, and
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: I don't have a lot of it, but my experience
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: with people in other countries that don't have the kind
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: of structure that the West has with government, like Egypt,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: for example, it's like they're so distrusting of their government
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: they don't even really think about it. So the government
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: doesn't have a lot of influence on them as a
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: group because they don't trust it. They you know, yeah,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: what are they up to? Now? What are they telling
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: us to do? Now? Now that doesn't mean that that
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Egypt as a whole, it's not still coerced by the
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: agenda other ways. I don't really know. I mean I
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: haven't I haven't looked at those statistics like how many
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Egyptians were vaccinated. I think it's still pretty high. So,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm not sure if that's a good argument,
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: but there there's definitely something that that makes people like
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: us who look at this and like, I mean, it's
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: a no brainer to me. I mean it's not even
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: it's not even like I looked hard, you know, at it.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: It just it just never clicked in.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: You know, I still do under why though, going back
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: to that that thirty two seventy middle brac, I mean,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: that's the that's the majority of people. That's what Mathias argues.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: And by the way, before someone points out, yes, I
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: know it's not an original idea. He's he's built on
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: ideas from other than the past. Fine, but the idea
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: I think is still is still good. And I also
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: remember at the same time Peter Breggins, Yeah, who was
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: on my show a few times. I think he's like
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: ninety now or something on ninety one. I think he's
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: the oldest guest I've ever had on my show. Oh yeah,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: And he said to me that because he took exception
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: to Matias Desbert's argument of mass formation. Okay, and he
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: also I think makes a very valid point. He says, Okay, look,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: if you go on to an aeroplane, says one hundred
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: and eighty people, and you in your thought experiment, you're
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: going to ask each one of them why they're sitting
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: on the airplane with a mosque. Each one of them
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: will have a different answer, and as a result, can
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: you then say it's mass formation because you should have
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: all the same responses for to be a kind of
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: mass formation. But that's not quite how massformation works, because
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: you're talking about a macro sort of a macro movement
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it's Yeah, I don't think it's
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: like that. I think you can still have those different reasons. Yeah,
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: within within within it within yes, yeah, within that. So
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: I think there's there's an element of truth in both.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: But I do like the idea that each person on
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: the airplane will have a different reason for wearing the mask.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: One person might say, I just need to get to
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: this next city because of a business meeting and fighting
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: fighting the masque is just simply not a battle I
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: want to fight, so I'm happy to put it on
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: for the flight. You might get someone else saying I
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: think it's going to protect me from that deadly virus.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: So two different responses. Well, there's I mean, that's a
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: good point. But I think, and this is just off
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: the top of my head. It certainly may not be
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: like this, but it feels to me like people with
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: masks on an airplane is kind of a strange test
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: because you couldn't fly without one. I mean, it's not
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: like you had a choice. So you could either not
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: fly and say I'm not going to ever wear a
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: mask for any reason, or you're going to fall into
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: those different reasons like somebody saying I don't believe in
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: any of this. But I got to get to but
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: I did because I've got family. So I live in
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Cape to On and I did too. Yeah, and I've
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: got family live in for Tory. Now, I did not
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: get a pc rtist and I did not get a vaccine.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: But the mosque, the mosque was pretty harmless, particularly when
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: you're just putting it on and then you're taking off
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: and in the flight town you're putting it back on
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: when you get off the airplane. And for that battle,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: I was willing to not fight because I wanted to
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: go and see my family in a different city. However,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: if I meant leaving the country, that's a different story.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: And I ad rizam myself that I wouldn't leave the
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: country because of the vaccine.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: I think my line was I wouldn't get a vaccine
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: to leave the country or to keep a job or
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I can't really say that about keeping a
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: job because I didn't have to. I wasn't face with that.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: But I did the PCR. You know, I didn't think
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: there was any harm in it, so well, I just was.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: I just didn't do it because I didn't want to
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: legitimize those numbers.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it, I get it.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: I understand that some people might argue it was harmful,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: but I kind of agree with you. I don't think
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: it was particularly harmful, but I just didn't want to
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: legitimize the system. But the mask, the maskue wasn't a
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: data capturing thing. They didn't like. You know, you didn't
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: put anything into a database when you put the mask on.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you a funny story about the mask, now
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: that we're talking about it, I haven't I haven't thought
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: about this in a while now, so it's just come
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: back to me. But we were boarding a flight to Johannesburg, okay.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: And so we were going going through you know where
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: you have to give them your your possible your idy
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: book and everything and they scan it and all that
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: kind of thing, right, And I had a mask on
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: because in the airport you have to wear a mask
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: and there's once one of the more strict places, and
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: so the so the women's so the security woman says
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: to me, can can you please pull down your mask?
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: I said why? She said, I just see that you're
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: the same person in your idy bade an idy cod.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: I said, no, I'm not going to do that. And
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: she said why not. I said, because I don't want
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: to make you sick. Good for you. And then she
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: and then she she went quiet for a moment and
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: then she went down.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: That's so funny, that's great. But I ended up pulling
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: down as I wonder how many times that happened. I
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: mean maybe even maybe even literally like like legitimately, people like, oh, no,
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: we're going to do that. I'm going to get you know,
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: because that that seems like that would be a very
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: common thing because they look at your picture and they
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: look at you, and I mean that was the whole
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: thing about mass used to be against the law a
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: little while ago, like to cover your face and anyway,
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: you know, if you're being identified, and then all of
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: a sudden that went out the windows like nobody cared.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean there's so much stupid crap about
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: all that, and you know, going back to the different reasons,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: I would say it would be relatively limited to the reasons.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: I think there were people that would say, you know,
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: I'm just doing it because I have to. I got
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: to get for me to be I think there would
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: be people that would legitimately be scared. Obviously maybe that
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: would be the majority. Oh I don't want to get
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: this disease. I think there would be people that believe
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: that didn't necessarily believe that the disease was that prevalent,
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: but felt like it was just polite and you know,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: like I don't want to look selfish. I'm doing this
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: for other people because they would be upset if I
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: didn't have a mask on. And you know, then there
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: would be people that don't even think about it, that
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: just say I just did what they tell me to do.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know why one of those are good reasons,
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: except maybe the first one. Just have to get from
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: A to B.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: So, but I mean I get the I get the
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: argument about not wearing the mask, and I mean I
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: didn't go around wearing a mask just you know, on
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: a daily basis. But one of the battles that was
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: impossible to win was the airport.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, No, No, it was if you if you
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: had to travel or decided you were going to travel,
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: you kind of had to comply. You had to go
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: along with it.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: But the mask was my line. Though. I wouldn't do
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: a PCR or a vaccine, but the mask, just to
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: go and see family in every city, that's I was
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: willing to do for a couple hours. Yeah, good for
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: you on the airplane. I don't know. I mean, I
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: guess you're going to get the beauty test. Someone's going
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: to come back and say, ah, but I didn't wear
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: a mask at all, and that's fine. But that wasn't
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: the beauty test I was interested in.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: No, and that is fine for them. You know, I
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: kind of air over the line with that. I know
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: people would get pissed off with me. I'm not and
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: you know it could be a character flaw. I just
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: don't believe in making things inconvenient for yourself, just to well,
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: to make things not inconvenient for yourself, just to make
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: a point. Now, I may be different with that now
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: because I'm pissed off. I don't think if this came again,
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: I don't think I would wear the mask at all.
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: You know, I wouldn't comply at all. But I don't know.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: I'm just one of those people that just go. You know,
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: it's like, I'm not going to make any difference being
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: a rebel here. It's not going to change anything. And so,
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm kind of weak in that sense. I
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: certainly was during the whole thing. I wore a mask,
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: you know, but mostly because my wife did. I think
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to disturb the peace of my family
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: with her, so I would just wear it, you know,
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: if we were going to a grocery store or whatever.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: I think if she weren't around, I think I'd be
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: a little bit more of a dick about it.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: My father was a lot more hardcore. He refused to
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: put on a mosque even going into a shop.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: Good for him. I admire people like that, and.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: I didn't wear a maskting going into most shops. Like
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: I said earlier, one of the battles. I just wasn't
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: witning to fight. Was the airport that you just cannot wait?
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: Right, That's yeah.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: It's like going into a government building. You're you're not
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: going to win that right.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: Right, right right? Or a hospital or something like that,
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: if you will be sure. Yeah, you know now I
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: might be different now. I think during that whole thing
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: that was all kind of new. It was like you
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: didn't really know for a while. Some people did right away.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: I certainly wasn't one. I mean I avoided the vaccine
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: because by then, which was almost a year later, is
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: that right? Because the whole thing started in March twenty twenty,
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: and then the vaccines weren't around until January is that right?
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: The following year. So by that time I'd figured it out.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: But at first I was riding along with it. I
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, what's happening. We're all going
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: to die and and whatever. So it took me a
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: couple of months to see it and it was so obvious.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: That's I was like going around, It's like the sky
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: is falling.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: When did you start questioning all of it? I remember
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: in fib even genuine fact, I remember doing a couple
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: of podcasts at that stage, discussing this weird kind of
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: flu outbreak that had spread from China to northern Italy.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: That was where I was.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't know. I didn't. I don't keep up with stuff.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: I wasn't. I wasn't active in anything when this started.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: I mean I was in my music, I was into two,
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: my therapy work or whatever. I never I didn't look
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: at the news. You know, it took. I don't think
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: I was even aware of it was going on until
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: most people were, which was like, I think February March
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: somewhere around there, twenty twenty.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: I remember, yeah, I remember when the announcement of lockdowns came.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: That was in March twenty.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, right, That's when it really hit the road, right.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: And then I started getting very angry because I'm thinking,
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: what the hell is going on? And that was when
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: I started questioning. And within a few months I started
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: questioning the entire thing. Yeah, like everything, all of it,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: even if but you.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Were already and you were already engaged in truth seeking.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: That was your thing. And I was engaged in truth seeking,
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: but only not politically, but only in things like UFOs
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: and crop circles and ancient Egypt, and you know, it
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: was a real fun that was awesome.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: Those are awesome topics.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well it was fun and it never got in
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: the way of anything because nobody would care. You know,
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: it wasn't like a political thing. But I think back
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: and I go, I'm kind of surprised because I never
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: believed in nine to eleven. I mean maybe at the
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: day it happened, I did, but I very very quickly
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: questioned that I never believed in Kennedy's assassination. Now that
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: was one hundred years ago. I mean that was when
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: I was a little kid when that actually happened. But
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: always was a conspiracy theorist as far as JFK was concerned,
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: and a handful of other things. And I don't know
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: why it took me more than two minutes to realize
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: the whole government thing with I tried, I believe them,
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: I believe Fauci and a lot of crap like with
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: I think, well, the first the first week of it,
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: It took me months.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: Well, it probably was months for me. I mean I
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: say I was by the time the vaccine came out,
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: there was no consideration to even consider that. So I
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: know by that time, which was what eight months later
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: or something, but I'm pretty sure way before that, because
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: it was you know, it was talked about that they
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: were trying to develop a vaccine and all that crap,
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, there's no way, I.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: Think it's going to todd. For me, the important thing
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: is not how quickly we arrived, but that we arrive.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: Because one of the things I really canstand is we
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: have a conversation like this and somebody very says I
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: knew from the word go to I get that.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: All the time.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: Well done, great for you, amazing, You're fantastic. It's not
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: the point. It's not a it's not a it's not
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: a race, no.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: No, ultimately no, it's just a matter of people.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: But it is a matter of thinking critically about these
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: things and and and getting to a point to where
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: you can re establish your views.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: Right now. I think now I would be one of
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: those people that knew from the start, you know, because
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: I've immersed myself in all this, doing all the writing,
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: you know, working with you, I think I would be
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: one of those. But at the time it happened, I
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: do look back and wonder why I wasn't. I mean
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: only because I was into alternative thinking, even government stuff
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: like with nine to eleven and whatever. I was into that,
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: And I think about it a lot, and I'd like, go,
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: why why could I think that the US government, that
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: Bush and all those people were implicit in this? Is
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: that the right word in this thing that happened that
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: was so monumental, And yet still think that the government
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: could be saying something that's true. I mean, it's like,
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: and I don't really know why. I think that's interesting.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: And I think that's part of this whole psychology thing too.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: I think we're so indoctrinated to not push against the
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: mainstream in any way, you know, initially we're so indoctrinated
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: into that. I think even us that do critical thinking,
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: even at the time, will still hold on to stuff.
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've held on to the possibility that Trump
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: was like anti global takeover and now you know, and
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: there's so many people that say, absolutely not, He's part
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: of the deep state and always has been and whatnot,
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: and you know, that makes sense, But I guess I
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: just want to believe that it's not all to shit.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: And that's a hard realization, you know, to come to
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: this where there's nothing out there that's above a certain
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: level that is not corrupted.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: Well, that is why we at UK call him and
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: our weekly banters Me, Mike and Charles often come back
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: to the starting point, and that is you.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: That's where change begins.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, take responsibility, look at yourself in the mirror, and
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: you influence those in your in your circle of influence.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: Katherine austen Off, It's likes to say we change the
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: world one person at a time.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Well that's true, that's true. I think that alone is
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: what keeps me. You know, I'm old. It's like I'm
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: not starting a family, Like.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: What are you talking about your thirty two Yeah, right, I.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: Wish I feel that way now. It's it's you know,
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: and there's there is a time frame. It's like I
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: won't I you know, maybe physically, although that would be
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: a real stretch. I'll be here in twenty years, but
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: I certainly won't be as you know, engaged in the world.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: I'm already not as engaged in the world as I
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: used to be ten years ago. But thinking about you
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: and people like you, and you're the majority. You know,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: you're starting a family right at the very beginnings of it,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: and all of this would be radically different for someone
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: like you. I mean it's like I can't even imagine
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: what it would be like. I mean, there's a certain
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: part of it that I experience being where I am.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: That's easy. I mean, it's a lot easier because I
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: don't really care. You know, I don't want to suffer.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: I don't want it to be, you know, lines to
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: the gas chamber kind of thing before I die. But
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: I could jump out of it completely if Cindy were,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: you know, my wife were along with me, which he not,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: but if she were, if she were in, if she
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: knew what I know and believed what I believe about
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: all of this, I think we would be gone. I mean,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: you know, I think we'd find some nice, safe place
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: to be where it's as safe as it can be
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: for the next you know, fifteen years or so twenty years.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: But if I had little kids, you can't do that,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: So you do. You do have to focus on what
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: you can do to make the world better. Man.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: I hope that or yeah, I hope that those listening
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: to you and I ramble every so often enjoy it.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: I do. That's why I keep inviting you back. Thank you,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: because I do too. It's it's what do you call it,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: a stream of what do they call it, stream of thoughts,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: stream of consciousness.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: Whatever, stream of consciousness. Yeah, it's spitballing. It for me
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: is an outlet of thoughts. Yeah, and and common thoughts.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like I'm sure most of your guests,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: you know, like I just I just watched I didn't
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: watch the whole thing, but but I watched a little
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: bit of your guy that says that Stalin got a
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: bad rap. You know, that he wasn't as evil as
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: that was an amazing episode, Yeah, very interesting, but those
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: are and you know, you've you've had people on about
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: the Titanic and I mean tons, tons of stuff that
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: are talking about really significant things. And you know, I
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: think we touch on that kind of stuff. But and you,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: of course are much more informed than I am. Okay,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: I don't. I don't have anything that I would say
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: other than psychology that I would say I'm an expert on.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: And and you know, my writing, I mean, my writing
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: is like what we do here. It's just like it's
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: just and you know, I think that's one of the
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: things that's valuable. That is that it's common thought. It's
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: like it's like a common person's view on things that
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: may have a little bit of insight into deeper stuff
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: than most people do, as far as as far as uh,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: spirituality or religion, and in psychology archetypal psychology, which is interesting.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: I mean it does, it does put a color on
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: it and put a spin on certain things. But I
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: think that's what's appealing about it about what we do.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: I hope, I hope there are people out there that
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: are going that are enjoying this.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: But okay, well that on that note, Todd, how can
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: I follow your work?
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: Shrewdviews Www dot shrewviews dot com. It's a substack. I
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: do a bunch of articles, a couple of articles a week.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: There's there's free stuff there as well as as subscription,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: and that's where it is. Also. The View of the
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: Shrew is my book. That's a compilation. I'm getting ready
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: to release the second volume of twenty twenty five articles.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: And the website for that's www dotwe of the Shrew
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: dot com.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: And that's where I am to dine. Thank you for
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: joining me in the traines