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Murder In Moscow: An FBI Profiler Gives His Thoughts On The Murders · Beyond The Horizon

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  Speaker 1: And welcome back to the program. As we continue to
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  Speaker 1: make our way through the investigation into who might be
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  Speaker 1: responsible for the Moscow murders, we're hearing from an ex-FBI
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  Speaker 1: profiler over at Fox News named Jim Clemente who's putting
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  Speaker 1: together a bit of a generic profile of who this
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  Speaker 1: person might be and what might have driven them to
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  Speaker 1: commit these murders. So let's get right to it and
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  Speaker 1: dive into this article from Fox News and let's see
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  Speaker 1: what this profiler has to offer. Headline, Idaho co-ed killer.
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  Speaker 1: FBI profiler reveals suspects likely attributes. Questions linger after four
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  Speaker 1: University of Idaho students were found fatally stabbed November 13th.
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  Speaker 1: This article was authored by Stephanie Pagonis and Ashley Papa.
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  Speaker 1: The suspect behind the unsolved murders of four University of
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  Speaker 1: Idaho students earlier this month was likely someone who knew
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  Speaker 1: the victims or a stalker who was familiar with their habits.
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  Speaker 1: One of the nation's foremost criminal profilers hypothesized on Tuesday.
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  Speaker 1: Tuesday marked nine days since the coeds were discovered stabbed
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  Speaker 1: to death inside their Moscow, Idaho home. As of Sunday, local, state,
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  Speaker 1: and federal law enforcement had received at least 646 tips
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  Speaker 1: in the week since the November 13 attack, but they
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  Speaker 1: are still searching for the person or people behind it.
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  Speaker 1: And that's interesting considering the local police department came out
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  Speaker 1: and said that they have no proof that there was
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  Speaker 1: a stalker or anything like that. Now, again, you have
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  Speaker 1: to take everything they say with a grain of salt
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  Speaker 1: as well, because they might be working with information behind
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  Speaker 1: the scenes that we have no idea about. And they
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  Speaker 1: might feel that that information is crucial to their case.
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  Speaker 1: So they're not going to release it to the public.
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  Speaker 1: Jim Clemente, a retired FBI supervisory special agent and criminal
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  Speaker 1: behavioral analysis expert, told Fox News Digital that he believed
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  Speaker 1: the suspect is likely a young man who has not
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  Speaker 1: carried out such violent crimes before. So that's interesting. And remember,
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  Speaker 1: this is coming from Fox. A former FBI profiler who's
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  Speaker 1: looking at the facts, looking at the case and coming
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  Speaker 1: up with his opinion. Now, the caveat to that is
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  Speaker 1: I'm sure that Mr. Clemente doesn't have access to the
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  Speaker 1: case files or the behind the scenes information. What he's
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  Speaker 1: doing is looking at the relevant and available information and
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  Speaker 1: building his profile off of that. And according to Mr. Clemente,
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  Speaker 1: he thinks that the likely suspect is a young man
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  Speaker 1: who has never done this before. So going off of
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  Speaker 1: that profile, we could basically say that it's not a
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  Speaker 1: serial killer or something like that. It's somebody who knows
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  Speaker 1: these kids or knew these kids and targeted them for
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  Speaker 1: whatever reason. My guess is that's the likeliest outcome here.
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  Speaker 1: Not some serial killer situation or anything like that. But again,
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  Speaker 1: who the hell knows? With what we have available to
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  Speaker 1: us as far as information, it's very difficult to wade
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  Speaker 1: through it and figure out what's what, especially with the
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  Speaker 1: mixed messaging we have received from the police. He's sloppy,
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  Speaker 1: Clemente said when he was reached by phone on Tuesday.
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  Speaker 1: This is probably more of a compulsive kind of person
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  Speaker 1: that would put him at a younger age and maybe
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  Speaker 1: in the age group or just above the victims. So
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  Speaker 1: that's interesting as well. What can we ascertain from that?
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  Speaker 1: Maybe it's somebody in a group they hung out with.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe it's somebody they went to school with or somebody
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  Speaker 1: who was scorned by one of the fraternities or sororities.
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  Speaker 1: And this is all the stuff that goes into this
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  Speaker 1: kind of case. And this is why it's so difficult
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  Speaker 1: for investigators to really pinpoint who it is without any
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  Speaker 1: kind of hard evidence. I don't think he's particularly sophisticated,
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  Speaker 1: criminally sophisticated or forensically sophisticated, he added. That makes sense.
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  Speaker 1: And that tracks considering we know that the crime scene
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  Speaker 1: was messy, according to reports from the police. So that
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  Speaker 1: would lead us to believe that it's somebody who is not,
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  Speaker 1: you know, adept at doing this, if you will. The
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  Speaker 1: killer's decision to commit such a brazen crime was indicative
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  Speaker 1: of his relationship with one or more of the victims,
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  Speaker 1: Clemente hypothesized. And again, very interesting. When you have the
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  Speaker 1: sort of brutality that we saw at this crime, or
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  Speaker 1: at least heard of, you would have to think that
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  Speaker 1: there's somebody who is enraged here who is behind these attacks.
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  Speaker 1: Somebody who has some sort of gripe, some sort of
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  Speaker 1: thought in their head that they were done wrong and
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  Speaker 1: they have to, you know, fix it. Because believe me,
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  Speaker 1: there's a lot of sick people out there, folks. I
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  Speaker 1: spend every single day going through these articles and adding
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  Speaker 1: stuff to the catalog and talking about these sorts of cases.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm blown away day by day with just how
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  Speaker 1: depraved humanity is. Going into an occupied dwelling with six
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  Speaker 1: people in it, different rooms in the middle of the night,
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  Speaker 1: is an extremely high-risk crime, unless he knows one or
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  Speaker 1: more of the people, the former New York City prosecutor said.
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  Speaker 1: So that is my first thought on it. This offender
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  Speaker 1: did not just randomly choose this location. that he targeted
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  Speaker 1: one or more of the people in there. Now, that
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  Speaker 1: could be because he has a relationship or a past
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  Speaker 1: relationship with one or more of them. Or it could
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  Speaker 1: be that he's been stalking one or more of them. Now,
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  Speaker 1: in the previous episode that we did this morning, we
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  Speaker 1: heard from the police that they looked into the stalker
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  Speaker 1: possibility and they said that they haven't found anything there yet.
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  Speaker 1: So does that mean there is no stalker or that
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  Speaker 1: they just haven't found one yet? I guess that's TBD, right?
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  Speaker 1: All part of their investigation. And it could be something
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  Speaker 1: that they're not releasing because they don't want to tip
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  Speaker 1: the person off. Asked later about the suspicion that the
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  Speaker 1: killer knew his victims, Clemente explained that the offender entered
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  Speaker 1: a home in the middle of the night when anybody
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  Speaker 1: living there could have had a gun multiple people could
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  Speaker 1: confront and attack him when he got in. And that's
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  Speaker 1: a good point. If you don't know what you're walking into,
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  Speaker 1: you don't know what you're walking into, especially in a
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  Speaker 1: place like Idaho. Everybody is a hunter. People have guns
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  Speaker 1: all over the place in that state. So you could
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  Speaker 1: walk into an absolute buzzsaw. So this person, more than likely, again, folks,
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  Speaker 1: we're just, you know, spitballing here, more than likely watched
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  Speaker 1: the place, staked it out and had an idea about
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  Speaker 1: the people who were in the house and if they
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  Speaker 1: were asleep or if they were awake. Unless he knew them.
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  Speaker 1: Unless he knew one or more of them, he went on.
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  Speaker 1: I think that reduces the risk if he did or
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  Speaker 1: if he was stalking them and he knew that on
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  Speaker 1: weekends they all got wasted and they went to bed
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  Speaker 1: early or they went to bed early in the morning
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  Speaker 1: and they didn't get up till late afternoon because they
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  Speaker 1: were all wasted. And again, look, these are college college
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  Speaker 1: kids we're talking about here. This is what college kids do.
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  Speaker 1: They go to parties on the weekends. They go to
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  Speaker 1: ball games. They hang out with their fraternity brothers and sisters.
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  Speaker 1: They drink some beers, play beer pong. It's just how
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  Speaker 1: it works. And that's very common, normal behavior. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: when I was in college, every single one of my
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  Speaker 1: friend group, we would sleep in until four or five
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  Speaker 1: o'clock in the afternoon sometimes. So I don't think it's
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  Speaker 1: anything uncommon for these kids to, you know, sit around,
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  Speaker 1: party and have a good time. And when I see
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  Speaker 1: like articles calling their house a party house, I find
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  Speaker 1: it laughable. It's kind of like inferring that they were
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  Speaker 1: up to no good there. A party house would be like,
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  Speaker 1: you know, 500 people there a day. My guess is
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  Speaker 1: they had more of like a kickback house where they'd
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  Speaker 1: have their brothers and sisters over from the fraternity or sorority.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe every now and then a bigger get together. But
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  Speaker 1: for the most part, kickbacks. He added, so if he
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  Speaker 1: knew their routine and he knew they were all drunk,
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  Speaker 1: then that again reduces the risk to the offender. So
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  Speaker 1: making this a more plausible crime to commit. So just
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  Speaker 1: the fact that he got away with it in that time.
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  Speaker 1: When asked why he believed the suspect was a male,
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  Speaker 1: Clemente pointed to the defensive wounds that some of the
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  Speaker 1: victims allegedly had. They fought back. This is somebody that
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  Speaker 1: was able to kill more people, including a male victim,
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  Speaker 1: Clemente said. He also referenced the use of a knife
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  Speaker 1: as a murder weapon and said that such violence is
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  Speaker 1: more indicative of a male offender. Yeah, and when you
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  Speaker 1: hear about how violent it was and how violent the
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  Speaker 1: crime scene was, there's no doubt in my mind that
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  Speaker 1: this is a male who did this. Now, could it
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  Speaker 1: be multiple people? Yeah, I guess they haven't ruled that
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  Speaker 1: out yet, but I highly doubt that this was a
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  Speaker 1: woman who committed this offense. He said the time of
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  Speaker 1: the attack during the late night, early morning hours shows
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  Speaker 1: that he has the freedom of movement during that time.
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  Speaker 1: So obviously looking for people who are off of work
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  Speaker 1: at that time, people who fit a certain profile. And
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  Speaker 1: I'm guessing, and again, folks, just to guess that the
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  Speaker 1: FBI is doing all of this, taking a look at
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  Speaker 1: all of these people who might fit this profile and
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  Speaker 1: building their case out from there. He's not in a
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  Speaker 1: relationship or a job that would keep him from committing
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  Speaker 1: the crimes during the time Clemente said. Moscow police received
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  Speaker 1: a call shortly before noon on November 13th for a
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  Speaker 1: report of an unconscious person at the King Road home.
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  Speaker 1: Several other people had gathered at the address by the
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  Speaker 1: time police arrived, officials said. The victims were slain in
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  Speaker 1: the second and third floors of their home between 3 a.m.
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  Speaker 1: and 4 a.m. on November 13th, after they spent the
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  Speaker 1: night out. The victims were identified as Ethan Chapin, Madison Mogan,
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  Speaker 1: Zanna Kernodal, and Kaylee Gonsalves. Two other roommates were inside
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  Speaker 1: the home on the bottom floor at the time of
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  Speaker 1: the murders, but were uninjured. The victims are all believed
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  Speaker 1: to have been asleep when they were attacked, though some
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  Speaker 1: showed signs of defensive wounds. Each victim was stabbed several
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  Speaker 1: times and showed no signs that they were sexually assaulted.
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  Speaker 1: They are all believed to have been killed using a
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  Speaker 1: single knife. And when you look at something like this
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  Speaker 1: and you see that there was no sexual assault, it
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  Speaker 1: wasn't a crime that was sexual in nature. Again, that
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  Speaker 1: points to it being a crime of passion or a
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  Speaker 1: targeted attack for some other reason. And what that reason is,
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  Speaker 1: that's the million dollar question, right? How did this all
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  Speaker 1: come about? What led to all of this? And why
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  Speaker 1: would some madman do this? He chose a knife. Clemente,
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  Speaker 1: who later became a writer and producer for shows that
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  Speaker 1: include Criminal Minds, said it is important to note that
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  Speaker 1: the killer chose a knife. Why did he choose a knife?
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  Speaker 1: It's quiet. It didn't wake up the rest of the
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  Speaker 1: residents in the house, he said. It could be for
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  Speaker 1: that reason. And when you take a minute to think
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  Speaker 1: about it, it's eerie as hell. Whoever the person is
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  Speaker 1: responsible for this, they had to sit down, plan this,
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  Speaker 1: think about it, and then carry it out. So that
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  Speaker 1: shows you the level of psychopath that we're dealing with here.
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  Speaker 1: But Clemente said it could also be that the offender
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  Speaker 1: is known to carry a knife, and might even show
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  Speaker 1: it off to his friends. The fact that he used
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  Speaker 1: a knife, Clemente said, it's graphic, but we call it,
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  Speaker 1: he doesn't mind wet work. He doesn't mind getting his
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  Speaker 1: hands dirty. He doesn't pale at the sign of blood,
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  Speaker 1: so that could lead to a whole bunch of other things, right?
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  Speaker 1: If we're talking about building a profile. He said he
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  Speaker 1: believed it could mean that the suspect is a hunter,
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  Speaker 1: a butcher, or otherwise in a field of that nature.
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  Speaker 1: He killed four different people this way. He didn't just
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  Speaker 1: sort of blanch and run after the first one, Clemente said,
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  Speaker 1: so that would definitely signal somebody who is comfortable around
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  Speaker 1: blood and carcasses and all of this other disgusting, grisly
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  Speaker 1: stuff that you would find at a crime scene like this.
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  Speaker 1: Examining his behavior. Examining the killer's behavior before and after
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  Speaker 1: the crimes, their pre- and post-defense behavior, can be useful
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  Speaker 1: for the community and investigators working to solve the crime,
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  Speaker 1: Clemente said. Pre-offense behavior includes such factors as that the
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  Speaker 1: killer could have been proud of his knife and carried
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  Speaker 1: it around and showed it off to people. Also, that
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  Speaker 1: he had some kind of contact with or was fixated
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  Speaker 1: on one or more of the people in the house.
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  Speaker 1: So again, back to that point. And we know that
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  Speaker 1: there were rumors out there that there was a stalker, however,
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  Speaker 1: the police department put the kibosh on that, or at
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  Speaker 1: the very least said that they haven't found any information
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  Speaker 1: that led them to believe that there was a stalker,
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  Speaker 1: at least at this time. Again, remember folks, this is
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  Speaker 1: all evolving and it's moving fast. As for his post-defense behavior,
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  Speaker 1: the suspect would have likely fled the area and won't
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  Speaker 1: come back until it calms down, Clemente said. At a
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  Speaker 1: time when so many people are leaving town for the holiday,
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  Speaker 1: such an absence might not be noticeable. Very interesting as well.
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  Speaker 1: Using the chaos that you create as a smokescreen to
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  Speaker 1: get out of Dodge, pretty interesting. But he may be local.
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  Speaker 1: and he may not have shown up for work or
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  Speaker 1: was late afterwards, Clemente added, and he probably has a
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  Speaker 1: significant interest in following the news of this crime. So
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  Speaker 1: that could be a million people on these message boards
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  Speaker 1: out there, huh? Moscow Police Department officials are asking the
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  Speaker 1: public to share all outside surveillance video taken from 3 a.m.
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  Speaker 1: to 6 a.m. on Sunday, November 13th, from businesses and
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  Speaker 1: residents within a specific area. A manhunt continues for the
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  Speaker 1: person involved in the attack. Police are asking anyone with
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  Speaker 1: information or footage related to the slayings to contact 208-883-7180.
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  Speaker 1: That phone number again, 208-883-7180. All right, folks. Well, there
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  Speaker 1: you have it. A profile built by Jim Clemente. And
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  Speaker 1: obviously he's just speculating like everybody else. But being an
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  Speaker 1: ex-FBI profiler and someone who's held in high regard, he
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  Speaker 1: definitely has an opinion that's worth listening to here as
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  Speaker 1: we continue to try to make heads or tails of
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  Speaker 1: what went down. All right, folks, that's going to do it.
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  Speaker 1: If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: at BobbyCapucci at ProtonMail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at ProtonMail.com. You can
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: link that I discussed can be found in the description box.