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AI in healthcare needs curiosity and judgment · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:00
  Informed dissent.
• 0:02
  The intersection of healthcare and politics with Dr.
• 0:05
  Jeff Barkey, board certified primary care physician.
• 0:09
  And Dr.
• 0:10
  Mark McDonald.
• 0:11
  Board certified child adolescent and adult psychiatrist.
• 0:15
  Welcome to Informed Descent.
• 0:18
  Great to be with you.
• 0:19
  Yep, I'm flying solo again.
• 0:21
  Mark is off uh touring the world, uh trying to find a new place to live.
• 0:26
  Uh we will get updates from him about his adventures.
• 0:30
  But today I got a great guest for some of you that know I was recently baptized of all things, and I'm part of a men's leadership group, part of the church.
• 0:42
  And one of my buddies that's in that leadership group is a super interesting guy, and I asked him to come over and to be interviewed.
• 0:48
  No, it has nothing to do with religion.
• 0:51
  Although some people think AI is somewhat of a religion.
• 0:54
  So welcome to Joe Corregliano.
• 0:58
  Is that right?
• 0:59
  You almost almost, almost Corrigliano, or if you're Italian, you'd say Cotoliano and the G is silent.
• 1:07
  Okay, very good.
• 1:08
  Well, hopefully you're not part of the mafia and you won't kill me.
• 1:11
  Uh well, welcome, Joe.
• 1:12
  Great to have you here.
• 1:13
  Very nice to be here, man.
• 1:15
  So for our audience, tell them a little bit.
• 1:17
  You've got a very interesting background, Microsoft and Sage and so forth.
• 1:21
  Tell us a little bit about your background.
• 1:23
  Yeah.
• 1:23
  Um 60 second capsule.
• 1:26
  I was uh an accountant that didn't want to be a CPA, and I got into the software industry.
• 1:32
  I first started working for Sage uh when they were based here in Southern California, a company called State of the Art, and which became Sage, and then I was recruited to a company that was ultimately bought by Microsoft.
• 1:46
  That company was uh Great Plains.
• 1:48
  Great Plains was bought by Microsoft in 2001.
• 1:51
  At the time it was the biggest acquisition Microsoft had made and I joined uh Microsoft.
• 1:56
  I spent collectively in that span close to 24 years at Microsoft helping build a new business um that thrives today.
• 2:05
  What is Great Plains?
• 2:06
  What was it?
• 2:07
  Great Plains was accounting software.
• 2:10
  That was the old term.
• 2:11
  Accounting was called E or P.
• 2:13
  Uh-huh.
• 2:13
  Yes.
• 2:14
  So you're an accountant nerd.
• 2:16
  Um I was an accountant that got into software.
• 2:20
  And Great Plains has an interesting story.
• 2:22
  Based in Fargo, North Dakota, the president of that company is a man named Doug, was a man named Doug Bergum.
• 2:28
  If that name was familiar to you.
• 2:30
  Like us, he was a senator or something.
• 2:32
  He was the governor of North Dakota.
• 2:34
  Governor, sure.
• 2:35
  And then he was a presidential candidate for about five minutes.
• 2:37
  I was.
• 2:38
  He was.
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  And now I think he serves in the Trump administration doing something.
• 2:42
  What does he do?
• 2:43
  He's uh head of the Department of the Interior.
• 2:45
  Wow, how interesting.
• 2:46
  Yeah.
• 2:46
  It's my old boss.
• 2:47
  Wow.
• 2:48
  Do you know?
• 2:49
  Do you know him well to text him?
• 2:50
  Um I know him well.
• 2:52
  I come on, we're gonna get let's get him on the phone right now.
• 2:54
  Come on, for the podcast.
• 2:56
  The uh uh his number two is very close to me.
• 2:59
  So I I'm one I'm one step close to Doug Bergum, but uh I I was on his campaign when in that in that five minutes when he was running.
• 3:07
  I was part of a local group that uh voted uh you know those politicking for him, but he's a fine man.
• 3:15
  How fun fan.
• 3:16
  How fun.
• 3:17
  So you're an accounting nerd.
• 3:19
  Yeah, I'm doing do you do your own taxes?
• 3:22
  No, good question.
• 3:24
  April 14th.
• 3:24
  Yeah.
• 3:25
  My best friend here in Newport Beast does my taxes.
• 3:27
  I know him 39 years.
• 3:29
  I go to nobody else.
• 3:30
  He's my trusted advisor.
• 3:31
  Really?
• 3:32
  Yeah.
• 3:32
  Yeah.
• 3:33
  So uh an accountant doesn't do his own taxes.
• 3:36
  Um, my skill set of accounting died in the early, my early 20s.
• 3:42
  I'm more of a um technologist.
• 3:45
  Yeah.
• 3:45
  Um, and when you have your one of your best friends, uh a CPA who does only taxes, you just leave it to him.
• 3:53
  So Microsoft, you're at for 20 plus years.
• 3:55
  Yeah, collectively.
• 3:56
  From from the time that I started at a company that was bought by Microsoft collectively.
• 4:02
  I did two stints.
• 4:03
  I left in 2011.
• 4:05
  Um, helped start and run an events company, and then I was hired.
• 4:10
  We sold that events company, my partner and I, and then what kind of events?
• 4:13
  Events for Microsoft, Microsoft Partners specifically.
• 4:16
  So you spun off from your work with Microsoft and you work for the company that put on these big Microsoft events.
• 4:22
  Yeah, I left Microsoft and a partner and I grew an events company that put on events for Microsoft partners.
• 4:29
  So there's an ecosystem of part Microsoft business partners that do deployment of things like accounting systems and ERP systems and CRM systems, and and so I know that world very well.
• 4:42
  So were you part of Microsoft when they were battling Apple, like at the beginning stages, like operating systems and going head to head and Steve Jobs and so forth?
• 4:50
  No, I was I was beyond that.
• 4:52
  I was early um 2001 is when I joined Microsoft.
• 4:56
  I've been working with Microsoft for 36 years, but I wasn't in that early years.
• 5:01
  I know all about it, but I wasn't there.
• 5:02
  Now, Microsoft is arguably one of the largest, I don't know, software companies in the world, is that right?
• 5:08
  Yeah.
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  They're based up in Seattle.
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  Uh Redmond, Washington.
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  Washington, yeah, and hundreds of thousands of employees.
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  12, 50, something like that.
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  When you worked there, did you work in Washington?
• 5:20
  No, I've always stayed in Newport Coast, um, but traveled.
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  And one year I traveled 40 out of 52 weeks.
• 5:28
  Wow.
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  To Redmond just to keep my my home in Newport.
• 5:31
  Wow, that's a lot of travel.
• 5:33
  Yeah.
• 5:33
  Um, so you were on the Microsoft campus and saw the big elaborate stuff that they do there.
• 5:38
  Yeah, I I was post their, you know, they really hit um their peak with Windows 95.
• 5:45
  In 1995, they released Windows 95.
• 5:47
  And at that point, they were the dominant operating system, right?
• 5:51
  They had the monopoly of everybody used Windows.
• 5:54
  Apple was a small player at the time, and everybody used Office.
• 5:57
  Now that market share has eroded, but um, you know, they've they've had uh, you know, they lost in certain areas.
• 6:04
  They certainly lost in mobility.
• 6:07
  But um, yeah so which which is the better uh operating system, Microsoft or Apple.
• 6:12
  Well, um, here's my and and by the by the way, we're recording this on a uh on a MacBook.
• 6:19
  We are.
• 6:19
  Yeah, I mean, I've been using Microsoft technology my whole life.
• 6:23
  So I I've never you I've other than having an iPhone.
• 6:27
  I even stayed, they used to have their own phones.
• 6:29
  Oh, I remember that.
• 6:30
  You remember that?
• 6:30
  Yeah, yeah.
• 6:32
  Those died.
• 6:34
  So they they stuck with what they're good at.
• 6:36
  They stuck with what they're good at, which is operating systems and the PC, but they they lost about the secret secretly when you're at home at night with your computer, you actually open up Safari, don't you?
• 6:47
  Well, I I I you know, right now it's we have a blended world of technology, right?
• 6:52
  You're Windows and and Mac are the two primary operating systems, and Android and Apple are the two phone OSs.
• 7:00
  OS's.
• 7:00
  Yeah, for sure.
• 7:00
  Yeah, for sure.
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  You got to pick your ecosystem, what you like.
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  You got to pick your ecosystem, what you'd like.
• 7:03
  Yeah, no doubt.
• 7:03
  Yeah, no doubt.
• 7:04
  I just I love being able to walk over to the Apple store that's across the street and go to the genius bar and some teenage nerd there can fix whatever's wrong with my system.
• 7:04
  I just I love being able to walk over to the Apple store that's across the street and go to the genius bar and some teenage nerd there can fix whatever's wrong with my system.
• 7:14
  Yeah, I'm a little cynical about those people.
• 7:14
  Yeah, I'm a little cynical about those people.
• 7:17
  They don't have the highest um customer service level.
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  They don't have the highest um customer service level.
• 7:21
  Maybe not, but they can fix stuff.
• 7:21
  Maybe not, but they can fix stuff.
• 7:24
  They're very good.
• 7:24
  They're very good.
• 7:25
  Yeah, very, very good.
• 7:25
  Yeah, very, very good.
• 7:26
  For sure.
• 7:26
  For sure.
• 7:27
  So one of the things, Joe, that I know you're uh dabbling.
• 7:27
  So one of the things, Joe, that I know you're uh dabbling in and uh doing more and more work in is the AI world.
• 7:34
  Yeah, and uh many people believe that AI is going to take over businesses and displace many, many workers.
• 7:42
  Yeah.
• 7:43
  First of all, what's AI?
• 7:45
  Yeah.
• 7:47
  Well, um artificial intelligence.
• 7:50
  Um, it's a term that's been coined many many years ago.
• 7:53
  Isn't that just when I Google something?
• 7:55
  Isn't that AI?
• 7:56
  I think the way to think about it today is it's um a term that applies to many things and many tools.
• 8:04
  But what everybody kind of the defining moment of AI happened in November of 2022 when Chat GPT was released to the market, and you saw there in the in the two years that followed was hundreds of millions of of users adopting it.
• 8:21
  Really the fastest growing platform ever, you know, take social any social media, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, anything, chat GPT dwarfed it with how it grew so rapidly to hundreds of millions of users now approaching close to a billion.
• 8:38
  How is that different than just Googling something?
• 8:41
  Well, the first thing to know is that there's uh Chat GPT is an LLM, a large language model, large language model, yes.
• 8:50
  Well, what does that mean?
• 8:51
  That means that they have uh built an index across the internet to basically in natural language, bring information back on natural language, so you can have a conversation talking to Chat GPT or one of the other LLMs, and uh and do things, get things done, search for information, uh put a diet plan together, you know, people are are using it now for the last couple of years to really do the same thing on Google.
• 9:24
  Um, so Google has their own LLM, and so at a high level, the way to think about it is there's multiple tools that a consumer we we could get into business, but a consumer can use to leverage by the way, he's Italian and he's talking with his hands right now.
• 9:42
  I am doing that.
• 9:43
  That's very true.
• 9:44
  That's very true.
• 9:45
  So what is your LLM?
• 9:46
  Do you go to Google and you uh it depends if it's a simple question, yeah.
• 9:51
  Like, I don't I don't know a recipe or I just want a basic piece of data information, it's Google.
• 10:00
  Yeah, because Google is easy, I've got it on my phone, I've got it on my computer.
• 10:05
  If it's an article or more research oriented information, uh, like we use a lot of peptides here in the office.
• 10:12
  Yeah, and so for example, I had a patient just today that's got carpal tunnel syndrome, it's where there's uh inflammation in the wrist, some of the nerves that go through this area of the wrist that's inflamed, causes a lot of problems, difficulty making a fist, numbness, tingling, and so forth.
• 10:31
  And he is going to a surgeon who wants to inject it and operate it on it and so forth.
• 10:37
  There's a particular peptide that's very common in the recovery world called BPC 157, whatever.
• 10:42
  A lot of people know about it, Joe shaking his head.
• 10:44
  Yeah, so I wasn't aware of whether BPC 157 could benefit carpal tunnel syndrome.
• 10:50
  I don't know, I've never used it for that, but maybe it can, maybe it can't.
• 10:54
  So chat GPT was the tool I used to ask the question with the proper prompts is there any evidence that um that BPC 157 can be beneficial in somebody who's suffering from carpal tunnel syndrome.
• 11:08
  Yeah, and I got a long answer, yeah.
• 11:10
  The end of the end of the day, by the way, if you care about the answer, not just what I'm doing with chat GPT.
• 11:16
  The answer is maybe yeah, that there's not a lot of evidence, there's not a lot of human trial on paper.
• 11:22
  The way in which BPC 157 works lends itself to potentially benefit somebody from carpal tunnel, if the symptoms are mild and it's not too advanced, went on to tell me that it may work best as an adjunct, meaning in addition to traditional treatment, steroid injections, physical therapy, whatever he's doing to get it better.
• 11:44
  BPC may enhance that recovery, uh, as opposed to a standalone product.
• 11:50
  So I'm like, oh, well, that's pretty cool.
• 11:52
  I didn't know that, and I shared that with the patient who came in.
• 11:55
  Turns out, yes, he's gonna try BPC for a month or two and see if it works.
• 11:59
  Yeah, makes a lot of sense.
• 12:00
  So my LLM use of chat GPT allowed me to get to that answer.
• 12:06
  Now, would I get to the same answer if I just put that in Google?
• 12:09
  I don't know, maybe.
• 12:10
  So great great use case.
• 12:12
  And I and we haven't talked about this, but I had a similar situation.
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  So I care about um, you know, making my body as tuned as possible.
• 12:24
  I had uh one friend in particular, um, really get in my face and say, you need to get on peptides curigliano.
• 12:32
  And so without a lot of knowledge, without having access to you or somebody that has some experience.
• 12:37
  Right, Joe and I met about 11 weeks ago or something.
• 12:41
  Yeah, um, what I did is I took my um physical.
• 12:46
  I had a physical done in Japan a couple of years ago, and and they did extremely comprehensive with my blood and everything.
• 12:52
  I had that as a document because everybody goes to Japan to get a physical.
• 12:56
  This was an exception because they have great health care, and I went with my significant other, and she said, Let's go get physicals.
• 13:02
  Do you speak Japanese?
• 13:03
  No, I don't.
• 13:04
  She does.
• 13:04
  She she led the whole thing.
• 13:06
  Yeah, but they have they have great, they have a great, you know, it was kind of a thing to do.
• 13:10
  We both got a physical in Japan.
• 13:12
  Yeah.
• 13:13
  Um they serve you like sushi at the end or something.
• 13:17
  They don't serve you sushi, but they're really end to end.
• 13:20
  Like I've never had um I've had physicals, but I've never had kind of an end-to-end physical and almost like an executive level physical.
• 13:28
  It was a lot of that, and it included everything all the way through an MRI and hearing and eyesight, and it was just comprehensive.
• 13:36
  You know, they they have it down.
• 13:37
  That's an interesting side sidebar we could go to.
• 13:40
  Yeah, but I had my physical, it wasn't that old.
• 13:42
  Sounds like a business opportunity.
• 13:44
  It um to bring that intelligence here.
• 13:46
  Well, they they streamlined a lot.
• 13:48
  So that that would be an interesting discussion.
• 13:50
  And I'm happy to happy to share with what they deliver.
• 13:52
  Sure, sure, sure.
• 13:53
  And it was very reasonable.
• 13:54
  Um, and I just came in off the street, right?
• 13:57
  Um, there's like 450 US dollars.
• 14:00
  That's not bad at all.
• 14:00
  That's not bad at all.
• 14:00
  Physical, including the MRI, including blood.
• 14:01
  Including the MRI, including blood.
• 14:03
  Yeah.
• 14:03
  Yeah, that's cheap.
• 14:03
  That's cheap.
• 14:04
  Yeah.
• 14:04
  Yeah, yeah.
• 14:04
  Yeah.
• 14:05
  Yeah.
• 14:05
  Yeah.
• 14:05
  So here, by the way, if you want to get a full body MRI, it's about 2500.
• 14:05
  So here, by the way, if you want to get a full body MRI, it's about $2,500.
• 14:09
  There's a company that is spreading this around the country called pre nuovo.
• 14:09
  There's a company that is spreading this around the country called pre-nuvo.
• 14:13
  They have a pretty good outfit, but it's $2500.
• 14:13
  They have a pretty good outfit, but it's 2500 bucks.
• 14:16
  Yeah, interesting.
• 14:16
  Yeah, interesting.
• 14:16
  Just for the MRI.
• 14:16
  Just for the MRI.
• 14:17
  Just for the MRI.
• 14:17
  Just for the MRI.
• 14:18
  Yeah, I had the whole it's incredible.
• 14:18
  Yeah, I had the whole it's incredible.
• 14:21
  So I point going back to peptides is I was I didn't have access to you, but I had access to AI.
• 14:21
  So I point going back to peptides as I was, I didn't have access to you, but I had access to AI.
• 14:27
  So I uploaded my document, my
• 14:27
  So I uploaded my document, my um exam.
• 14:33
  And I said the prompt was based on my physical, what peptides would benefit me.
• 14:40
  By the way, how do you upload your document?
• 14:42
  Like you have a piece of paper.
• 14:44
  Yeah.
• 14:44
  Can you scan it and then somehow stick it into Chat GPT, or do you have to retype everything that's on?
• 14:50
  No, you just scan, save it as a PDF, and then in Chat GPT, you upload the document.
• 14:54
  Got it.
• 14:54
  We got to get you up to speed on that.
• 14:56
  I know exactly.
• 14:56
  Yeah, no, there's there.
• 14:58
  That's that's building block stuff.
• 15:00
  Yes, you could upload anything.
• 15:01
  Yeah.
• 15:01
  And it will take it as context.
• 15:04
  And it reads the PDF for you.
• 15:05
  It read the PDF and it gave it spit back to me all of my how many pages was this?
• 15:10
  Red and yellow.
• 15:11
  Um the I'll show it to you by the way if you want to see it.
• 15:14
  Yeah, yeah.
• 15:15
  Um, it was um six pages, I think.
• 15:17
  Okay, and it took that as context and it spit back to me.
• 15:21
  I had high uric, it had the question is what peptide solution based on all this stuff.
• 15:26
  Exactly.
• 15:27
  And it gave it spit back to me.
• 15:28
  Here's what I recommend based on your physical.
• 15:33
  So I had at least some idea.
• 15:36
  Now I had a buddy telling me take Krigliana, take BP C157, take TB500, which is I guess the Wolverine.
• 15:43
  That combo is Wolven Wolverine.
• 15:45
  And I also recommend um reditude reditrue tie to lean down.
• 15:51
  I might want to pull some of that for you because I ran out of it.
• 15:54
  Yeah, Reddit is uh is a newer generation uh peptide for weight loss, typically used for weight loss.
• 16:01
  Some people are now using it for other things.
• 16:03
  Yeah, there's some evidence that maybe, and by the way, please.
• 16:08
  This podcast is not designed to treat or to diagnose or treat any problems.
• 16:12
  Please check in with your own doctor.
• 16:13
  Okay, there's the there's the uh waiver disclaimer.
• 16:16
  Reta may have some anti-cancer benefits, anti-inflamm inflammation benefits, cardioprotective, neuroprotective, maybe yeah, studies need to be done.
• 16:24
  Yeah, but you wanted to use Reddit to lean out just a little bit.
• 16:28
  I wanted to, I you know, I'm open to testing stuff.
• 16:31
  So I was shooting all three of those up.
• 16:33
  Um, I procured them from a friend, and I was wanting to see how my body felt.
• 16:37
  Yeah, how did it feel?
• 16:39
  I lost weight right away from the Reddit true tide.
• 16:42
  Um, and then I that kind of weaned off.
• 16:44
  But I you know, I've been doing other things.
• 16:47
  I'm not currently taking it just because I found a cost prohibitive after a while, and I didn't wasn't sure what I was getting from it.
• 16:55
  Sure, I understand.
• 16:56
  Yeah, and you said you're somebody who's um pretty keen on your own health and take a care of yourself and so forth.
• 17:02
  Big time.
• 17:03
  So you ice bath every day, cold plunge.
• 17:06
  Cold lunge.
• 17:07
  Yeah, is is that's different.
• 17:10
  Um I guess ice bath technically, you put ice in a bathtub and you climb in.
• 17:14
  You'd be crazy to do that.
• 17:15
  You gotta get the right biohacking terms here.
• 17:17
  But you cold plunge every day.
• 17:19
  5 30 a.m.
• 17:20
  5 30.
• 17:20
  And you got a group of people that do this, four of us, uh three of us, and you're on like a WhatsApp app or something, and you're like rooting each other on watching each other shiver.
• 17:29
  The phone, one of us will dial the other the others at 5 30 a.m.
• 17:35
  And we put our we mount our phones and we get in the ice bath, and it ranges from one guy has his at 38.
• 17:42
  What is that 42?
• 17:44
  And we 38.
• 17:45
  Does he have to like chip through the ice to get in?
• 17:47
  No, he's he's okay.
• 17:48
  He's a badass.
• 17:49
  He's an ex marine, and he's just he's just tough.
• 17:52
  You're gonna meet him one day.
• 17:53
  What temperature is yours?
• 17:54
  42.
• 17:55
  Okay.
• 17:55
  Yeah.
• 17:56
  So mine is uh automated as three minutes up and running.
• 17:59
  Three minutes.
• 17:59
  Yeah, and then and then what do you do?
• 18:02
  Um, I um get out.
• 18:04
  Do you get out and then take a hot shower?
• 18:06
  No, like I my buddy gets into his sauna, I get out, dry off, and I um which so we use that call, it's part of a men's group to really bond, and we usually talk about what our goals are for men's group of three, yeah.
• 18:20
  Well, I'm in a bigger men's group, but this is a smaller, smaller group.
• 18:24
  Of crazy people.
• 18:25
  Um, I would call them men with high standards.
• 18:28
  High standards, yeah.
• 18:29
  Okay, high standards, obsessive men.
• 18:32
  I don't know if I'd say obsessive, they're just high standard men, like they're they're motivated, high achieving men, you know, and and uh we all bring in.
• 18:41
  If you take a cold plunge every day, you have high standards.
• 18:44
  No, I think high standards has a lot.
• 18:46
  We could get into a spiritual connection, but no, I like you one thing I believe in is you are the sum of the five people you spend the most time with.
• 18:56
  100%.
• 18:57
  So if you believe that, like I'm very called.
• 19:00
  I'm getting chilly just sitting here with you.
• 19:03
  You're gonna join one of these 5 30 a.m.
• 19:05
  You just take a cold shower.
• 19:07
  It's uh just audio.
• 19:08
  No, we're on camera.
• 19:09
  Yeah, I'm gonna video myself taking a cold shower.
• 19:11
  So you you want to get a bee on it and you do your cold shower.
• 19:16
  Maybe one day you'll buy a cold plunge.
• 19:18
  I had one.
• 19:18
  I think I told you this.
• 19:19
  I bought a cold plunge because I was watching social media influencers like Gary Breca and the like, and they were promoting this.
• 19:26
  And I think for I think for a lot of people it can be healthy, but not all people.
• 19:31
  I think women in particular need to be careful about that because they are not dudes, and they have cycles in their body, menstrual cycles and others, and it's very, very stressful on the body to hop into a 42 degree tank of water.
• 19:46
  It's not, it's not it's not good for everybody.
• 19:50
  If you're fit and you're otherwise dialed in, I think it plays a role.
• 19:53
  If you're unhealthy and you're not getting enough sleep and you're overweight, you gotta be really careful putting that kind of stress on your body.
• 20:00
  That's probably fair.
• 20:01
  So I bought a cold plunge because I thought it would be cool to do, and it was set at I don't remember now, but 40 something.
• 20:07
  Yeah, and five minutes was my goal.
• 20:09
  Yeah, and I remember the very first time it was outdoors, uh, where I was living.
• 20:13
  Uh-huh.
• 20:14
  And I hopped into this thing, I was freezing my ass off.
• 20:18
  It was incredibly uncomfortable.
• 20:20
  I had my phone there watching the counter.
• 20:22
  I couldn't believe how long how slow that thing was going.
• 20:24
  Yeah.
• 20:25
  And that was the first and the last time.
• 20:27
  Wow.
• 20:28
  That doesn't sound like you.
• 20:30
  Oh my god.
• 20:31
  What am I out of my mind?
• 20:33
  This is so uncomfortable and so painful.
• 20:35
  Done.
• 20:35
  Where's the hot shower?
• 20:37
  Well, uh, okay.
• 20:38
  Now maybe it was for too long.
• 20:40
  I wasn't part of a larger group that was all doing this.
• 20:43
  Maybe I overdid it.
• 20:44
  I don't know.
• 20:45
  I'm not the doctor here, but according to Mr.
• 20:48
  Huberman, um, when you do that, what you're doing is you're growing your mid-singulate cortex.
• 20:55
  Yeah, I was growing something.
• 20:56
  Um, and then and then something was there was some shrinkage going on too in that cold water.
• 21:00
  In that cold water.
• 21:01
  I'm sure that absolutely happens every time.
• 21:01
  I'm sure that absolutely happens every time.
• 21:04
  But no, I mean I think it's safe to say that if you do hard things, it uh it grows no.
• 21:04
  But no, I mean I think it's safe to say that if you do hard things, it uh it grows no.
• 21:12
  I, you know, I agree with you, and I kind of gave up early.
• 21:12
  I, you know, I agree with you, and I kind of gave up early.
• 21:16
  There were a lot of other things I do to take care of myself.
• 21:16
  There were a lot of other things I do to take care of myself.
• 21:18
  I work out almost every day.
• 21:18
  I work out almost every day.
• 21:19
  I try to eat really clean.
• 21:19
  I try to eat really clean.
• 21:21
  I'm pretty disciplined about things like that.
• 21:21
  I'm pretty disciplined about things like that.
• 21:23
  I have a sauna at home.
• 21:23
  I have a sauna at home.
• 21:25
  I just moved location, so I haven't got the right plug to plug it in.
• 21:25
  I just moved location, so I haven't got the right plug to plug it in.
• 21:28
  And saunas, I think, are fan.
• 21:28
  And saunas, I think are fantastic.
• 21:30
  It's a red light sauna.
• 21:32
  Sweating your ass off, I think is great.
• 21:34
  Uh, we've talked about this yoga hot yoga.
• 21:37
  I've been opposed to yoga because I thought yoga was kind of anti-Christian.
• 21:41
  We met a Christian that does that's the instructor for yoga.
• 21:45
  And if you do nothing else but just sit in this class, you sweat your butt off.
• 21:49
  And I think that is so healthy.
• 21:51
  He makes it, he teaches it in a way that it's very uh non-competitive, uh, relatively easy.
• 21:59
  Do what you're able to do.
• 22:01
  He doesn't push you.
• 22:02
  I'm kind of a yoga retard, but even after three or four sessions, I feel like I'm getting a little bit better.
• 22:08
  I'm understanding how to do it.
• 22:10
  Part of the yoga class two is doing core work, meaning we're doing sit-ups and doing some push-ups.
• 22:15
  It's not just about the poses.
• 22:17
  Yeah.
• 22:17
  So I'm gonna actually, I tried to interview him, but it got messed up with the audio.
• 22:22
  I still want to interview him under the umbrella name of maybe just maybe I was wrong with my Substack post about why Christians shouldn't do yoga.
• 22:33
  It's good that you're open-minded.
• 22:34
  So coming, so it's coming coming soon.
• 22:38
  So I think cold plunging is a good thing if it's done properly and carefully and you don't overdo it.
• 22:44
  And you're and you're otherwise taking really good care of yourself.
• 22:48
  I think there are foundational things that are more important.
• 22:52
  But if you're already doing that and you want to take it to a next level, I think that's fair.
• 22:57
  Yeah.
• 22:58
  Saunas, however, I think are good for anybody.
• 23:00
  If you're big and fat and you're out of shape, sweating, it's one of the ways that the body naturally detoxes.
• 23:05
  If you add to that a red light sauna, I'm not sure that the red lights are all that great inside of sauna, but red light therapy is fantastic for you to reduce inflammation and so forth.
• 23:16
  But you know, even red, even saunas, you got to be careful if you have heart problems and whatever, you don't want to get overheated, but for the right amount of time and building up to 15, 20, 30 minutes, I think is a good thing.
• 23:27
  Yeah.
• 23:27
  I appreciate your kind of open-minded perspective to some of these things.
• 23:32
  And no, I I think it's good.
• 23:34
  I mean, you and and look, you have a lot of responsibility as a doctor because you you have to make sure that it's right for the masses, right?
• 23:42
  If somebody's overweight and andor if it's a woman that's on our mentor's side.
• 23:46
  Like I don't know all the iterations before you can endorse.
• 23:50
  So I appreciate kind of your um and and you don't hear you don't hear that on social media.
• 23:56
  I mean, I follow all the usual people that a lot of you that are listening follow.
• 24:00
  Like I love Gary Breca and what he uh represents.
• 24:04
  He's gotten very salesy though.
• 24:06
  And when he talks about the various things, he doesn't say do this if you're already healthy, do this in moderation.
• 24:12
  Don't do it if you're in this category.
• 24:14
  It's more broad based for the masses, and I'm not sure that that's a good thing.
• 24:19
  You have responsibility.
• 24:20
  He advertises, for example, I don't know if you do this, a weighted vest.
• 24:24
  I can't remember the name of the company.
• 24:26
  And I've watched him and others.
• 24:28
  I'm like, that's a cool thing.
• 24:29
  So I actually ordered a weighted vest on Amazon.
• 24:32
  I think it's 12 pounds, maybe 12 or 13 pounds.
• 24:34
  I don't remember.
• 24:36
  And I was excited the first time when this thing came in the mail, and I put this weighted vest on.
• 24:40
  And I live here in Newport Beach.
• 24:42
  There's beautiful walking here, and I went on my usual course.
• 24:45
  I didn't run, I do some running.
• 24:47
  I just walked.
• 24:48
  Yeah.
• 24:49
  Maybe it was 45 minutes or an hour with his weighted vest.
• 24:52
  I'm like, oh, this really does add some resistance.
• 24:55
  Well, what I noticed the next day after I finished my walk is I I was really sore in places that I didn't realize, like along my flank and my back, the back of my neck.
• 25:07
  And what I realized is I have a tendency when I walk, and I'm working on this from a postural standpoint, that I kind of lean forward a little bit.
• 25:15
  And so if you've got an extra 10 or 15 pounds of weight and you're leaning forward, it's putting a lot of weight, a lot of pressure, a lot of resistance on the back, your flank and your neck because you're leaning forward and your neck is heavy enough.
• 25:29
  So now, as I talk to people about using a weighted vest, and I think it's a good idea.
• 25:33
  I remind them you need to be mindful of your posture.
• 25:37
  You need to stand up really tall.
• 25:39
  First few times you do it, go short, maybe only do it for 10 or 15 minutes and make sure that you're tolerating it.
• 25:45
  Don't get a really heavy weighted vest.
• 25:47
  I know 10 pounds doesn't seem heavy, but for some people it is.
• 25:50
  So that's just an example.
• 25:52
  Yeah, I what I appreciate.
• 25:54
  Um, this is the first time we're talking about things like this, but I appreciate that you have a bigger pitcher perspective because you have a lot of listeners, and you know, you you take some deliberation before you say, Oh, go do a cold plunge.
• 26:09
  No, there is it isn't for everybody.
• 26:11
  I I have a have have relatives that are you know very overweight, and I'd I'd be yes, your heart rate rises when you get into that cold plunge.
• 26:20
  Maybe that's not good if you have a heart condition.
• 26:22
  So we I you know, you've got to be careful as you as sure deliver stuff like that.
• 26:26
  Joe, we're gonna take a quick break and then when we come back, we're gonna get back onto the discussion about AI.
• 26:32
  We kind of got off this discussion, but I want to learn more about AI and LL LLMs.
• 26:37
  I don't even remember what that stage is.
• 26:39
  A lot to talk about.
• 26:39
  So we'll be back in just a second.
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• 30:15
  All right, we are back with Joe, and uh we're gonna get back into talking a little bit about AI.
• 30:23
  He had an incredible career, 20 plus years uh at Microsoft.
• 30:27
  Now he's pretty much working as a consultant helping companies utilize technology and in particular AI.
• 30:34
  So we started talking about A AI uh chat GPT.
• 30:39
  There's one now that Elon Musk uh just came out with, Grok.
• 30:43
  I played around with it a little bit, and then there's just Google, and I'm sure now when you type into Google or speak to Google, they probably have their own what was LLM language, what was that?
• 30:53
  Large language model.
• 30:54
  Okay.
• 30:55
  So I'm sure they have their own LLM that they use as well.
• 30:58
  And I think competition is good, right?
• 31:00
  All these competing AI models.
• 31:02
  Yeah.
• 31:03
  Um, how do you see most people using AI?
• 31:07
  And do you think it's accurate that there's going to be a whole ton of workers that are going to be displaced as a result?
• 31:13
  Yeah.
• 31:14
  Yeah, that's the right question.
• 31:15
  I um so let's just talk about consumers versus businesses, because there's a very different spread.
• 31:23
  Sure.
• 31:23
  So what I'm about to say, I think is appli applicable, because I'm gonna put a framework around this for both consumers and businesses.
• 31:31
  So I put people in one of three buckets.
• 31:35
  Bucket one is they're curious about AI.
• 31:39
  Bucket two and curious about AI is like what you're doing.
• 31:42
  You you're using it, you used it to see if carpal tunnel and BP157 make sense, and and that's good.
• 31:49
  And and many hundreds of millions of people are using it and are curious.
• 31:54
  Bucket two is um you're building things with AI.
• 32:02
  And what building things with AI to me is as a consumer, um, you're using AI to build fantastic presentations.
• 32:12
  You're using AI to build apps.
• 32:15
  This morning I built an app in two and a half hours that I'm excited to show you tonight that allows me to track all my habits.
• 32:25
  Really?
• 32:25
  And I've never coded a lick in my life.
• 32:29
  I'm the least technical person.
• 32:30
  And you built an app and I built an app on your iPhone.
• 32:33
  On my iPhone that I'll show you.
• 32:34
  Wow, in two and a half hours.
• 32:36
  So that's bucket two is your building things.
• 32:39
  You're gonna put all those guys in India out of business.
• 32:42
  Well, I mean, that's happening, and so the world, people like that have to adapt.
• 32:49
  Like I've thought about creating an app to put together, bring together some of all the social media things that I do.
• 32:55
  I even reached out to a few people, they wanted like 10 grand to put together a basic app.
• 32:59
  I I get that you, you and I in a room, we could do it in three to four hours.
• 33:04
  And you'll have at least uh um uh something to look at that's tested.
• 33:09
  Wow.
• 33:10
  So back backdrop of this.
• 33:12
  There's a company called Lovable.
• 33:13
  I don't have you ever heard of Lovable.
• 33:15
  Never.
• 33:15
  So lovable is one of the fastest growing um companies uh in the software industry today.
• 33:23
  They've created an app that allows you to use large your language, right?
• 33:28
  Talk to it, and it will build an app based on what you're you define.
• 33:32
  No kidding.
• 33:33
  True.
• 33:34
  That's amazing.
• 33:34
  Yeah, yeah.
• 33:35
  And so, and and low lovable is just skyrocketing, going through the roof.
• 33:40
  The founder, it was based company based out of Sweden, as it turns out, it's a small world.
• 33:46
  I the founder of the company, his father is uh an ex-Microsoft executive, part partner executive who I know very well.
• 33:54
  And um, this young man built this app helping run his father's companies and his business assets, and now it's exploding.
• 34:02
  Like in my in my men's group, like dozens of men are using it and to build apps to build apps.
• 34:08
  Wow, yeah.
• 34:10
  So back to the the framework.
• 34:12
  So they're you're curious or you're building, building things to help, or the third bucket is your scaling.
• 34:21
  You're scaling what AI can do for you.
• 34:23
  Scaling to me, if you're a consumer, is you're using agents to help automate your life.
• 34:30
  So in my what I see.
• 34:33
  I I think the word scaling means that you're multiplying businesses across the country, opening up multiple locations.
• 34:40
  How do you how do you mean it?
• 34:41
  Scaling is you're as a consumer or an individual, you're using AI to enhance your life through the development of agents that do repetitive tasks for you.
• 34:56
  Much easier.
• 34:57
  Yeah.
• 34:57
  What do you mean?
• 34:58
  Agents.
• 34:58
  Do you know what an agent is?
• 35:00
  No.
• 35:00
  No.
• 35:00
  Okay.
• 35:00
  Okay.
• 35:01
  I mean, other than you call the airlines and there's a flight attendant agent that helps you book a flight.
• 35:01
  I mean, other than you call the airlines and there's a flight attendant agent that helps you book a flight.
• 35:05
  Okay.
• 35:05
  Okay.
• 35:05
  Not that kind of agent.
• 35:05
  Not that kind of agent.
• 35:06
  So the promise of AI is where everything is going.
• 35:06
  So the promise of AI is where everything is going.
• 35:11
  So little context.
• 35:11
  So little context.
• 35:13
  In my opinion, ChatGPT hit the masses in November of 2022.
• 35:13
  In my opinion, ChatGPT hit the masses in November of 2022.
• 35:19
  We are now in April of 2025.
• 35:19
  We are now in April of 2025.
• 35:22
  So in 26.
• 35:22
  So 26.
• 35:24
  26, sorry, 26.
• 35:24
  26, sorry, 26.
• 35:25
  So in the last couple of years, things have are moving very, very quickly.
• 35:25
  So in the last couple of years, things have are moving very, very quickly.
• 35:30
  But we're still relatively speaking in the first or second inning.
• 35:33
  If you use a nine-inning baseball game analogy, yeah.
• 35:36
  So many people are not most business, I'll just turn to businesses, are not using agents to um to displace workers.
• 35:47
  But agents will do ultimately is the promise of what AI is.
• 35:51
  So is an agent like when I call a company and I get an automated system that can solve my problem for me without ultimately talking to a live person.
• 36:02
  Pretty much that's one use case.
• 36:05
  And it's anything that's a repetitive task, is can be done from an by an age.
• 36:10
  By an agent, yeah, sure.
• 36:12
  So you know, think of um things that happen in medicine that are repetitive, like doctors that are doing things repetitive.
• 36:21
  What's the the one example that I keep hearing about is help me out with this?
• 36:26
  The people that are reading um like EKGs, electrocardiograms.
• 36:30
  Yeah, they're the specialty of all they're doing.
• 36:33
  Radiology radiologists.
• 36:34
  Oh, so you take an x-ray of something, and currently it's manual.
• 36:38
  A radiologist sits in front of a screen, yeah, whether it's an MRI or a CT scan or a plain X-ray, yeah, and they look at it, and then they determine what they see, they translate and they transcribe.
• 36:50
  Yeah.
• 36:51
  They're they're uh potential, they're potentially our AI agents that could do that work far more accurately than a human.
• 37:01
  Correct.
• 37:01
  Yeah.
• 37:02
  So radiologists could be out of business.
• 37:04
  Well, I think everybody has to just evolve where they are in their in their world to adapt to it.
• 37:11
  Every every to me, every job is is going to change fundamentally.
• 37:14
  Sure.
• 37:15
  I can tell you I use AI in my practice, but not as an agent.
• 37:19
  I use it to help me uh listen to conversations and then accurately transcribe that into the medical record so I don't have to do that work.
• 37:30
  Yeah, that's a great use case.
• 37:31
  I don't know if that's would be considered agent or agency, but it's helpful to me.
• 37:36
  Agents do things.
• 37:37
  So the big difference of what you're doing is you're you're you're curious, you're using information from an LLM to help you, but an agent, think of an agent as doing something in your practice that's a repetitive task.
• 37:50
  Yeah, I'm trying to think of many of the repetitive tasks would be drawing blood.
• 37:56
  I don't know how AI is going to draw blood.
• 37:57
  Maybe one day it will.
• 37:59
  Well, well, what we can foresee is just to give you the the ninth inning of the baseball game, or if we use that analogy, is we're gonna see robotics come up and robots are gonna start doing things that humans have done.
• 38:14
  Now, with this will this be in our lifetime?
• 38:16
  Probably, yeah.
• 38:18
  Probably.
• 38:18
  Yeah, interesting.
• 38:20
  And what's your role in all this?
• 38:23
  Yeah, I um right now I'm advising companies on this.
• 38:27
  I'm helping a couple startups that have um AI startups.
• 38:31
  I I was on a call uh with a company today that's uh does geospatial indexing where they um help um uh real estate developers understand if they want to build something, what is the weather climate and what's the I'm gonna get lost on all of things that it does, but it's a geospatial app.
• 38:52
  And so I'm advising that company as they look for funding.
• 38:56
  Um I stay close to the Microsoft world.
• 39:00
  I'm presenting at a conference in Europe next month, and yeah, I'm staying close to all the opportunities, and I I help companies fractionally.
• 39:10
  So, you know, in a fast food, I don't know that this is AI, but automation is putting a lot of people out of work.
• 39:17
  You come and you now order food on a kiosk rather than a person at the airport.
• 39:22
  You now have automated check-ins, you dial in your boarding pass and so forth.
• 39:27
  You don't have to go to a physical person at the supermarket, you can check yourself out.
• 39:32
  And by the way, I tend not to do those things because I want to help people preserve their job.
• 39:38
  And I kind of like talking to the guy behind the counter and saying good morning and looking at his name tag and seeing that he's from a different town or whatever.
• 39:48
  I like that.
• 39:49
  And I just worry right now, currently, even at the current state of AI and computers, uh, we have distanced ourselves from our communities and each other to a level that I think is very, very unhealthy.
• 40:05
  We drive to places, we use DoorDash, we no longer walk around our neighborhoods, we don't say hi to our neighbor.
• 40:12
  We don't even know who our neighbors are.
• 40:15
  The exception, by the way, which is really interesting, is if you have a dog.
• 40:19
  So if you have a dog, you're outside walking your dog, and you have to walk your dog, and you meet people that have dogs, and there's like a whole dog community now.
• 40:28
  Um, but I think we've done a disservice by automating and making things so easy that we no longer have to interact with people.
• 40:37
  Yeah.
• 40:38
  Well, yeah, that's a whole different topic.
• 40:40
  And I I mean, I don't, you know, I think I have a 20-year-old daughter, and the thing I worry about for her is doom scrolling.
• 40:49
  You know, there's studies and 60-minute episodes that suggest that you get attached to your social media and you just become introverted because that's your life.
• 40:59
  And so, yes, a lot of people are saying that AI, you know, I'm reading articles every day, people falling in love with their LLM and having conversations and and um and there's movies on this movies like her that was released a couple many years ago.
• 41:16
  So I don't know.
• 41:17
  I it it's it is a concern, and um, there probably should be more public awareness around it.
• 41:22
  Yeah, for sure.
• 41:23
  I have a two-year-old granddaughter and my daughter has made quite the effort to uh raise her so far screen free.
• 41:31
  Yeah, uh, so they don't have iPads that she looks at when uh she's holding her, they're out or whatever, they're not on their phones uh for her to be distracted.
• 41:42
  Uh they don't turn the TV on and turn it on like Sesame Street or whatever the kids show our shows are to take her attention.
• 41:49
  They basically she lives a screen-free life, and it's amazing to watch because she has to play the old-fashioned way, yeah.
• 41:56
  And it's harder, yeah, and it's more work.
• 41:59
  Yeah, but I think it's better.
• 42:00
  It's better.
• 42:00
  Yeah, kudos.
• 42:00
  Yeah.
• 42:00
  Kudos.
• 42:01
  And we've gotten away from that, unfortunately.
• 42:01
  And we've gotten away from that, unfortunately.
• 42:04
  It's not uncommon.
• 42:04
  It's not uncommon.
• 42:05
  I'm sure you've seen this if you go out to dinner or wherever, you see a group of kids all sitting together at the dinner table or the lunch table, and they're not talking to each other.
• 42:05
  I'm sure you've seen this if you go out to dinner or wherever, you see a group of kids all sitting together at the dinner table or the lunch table, and they're not talking to each other.
• 42:13
  Yeah.
• 42:13
  Yeah, they're they all have their phone in front of them looking down, even though they're with human beings at the table, nobody's talking to each other, they're on their phone, as if the people or the whoever is on their phone is more important than who they're there with publicly.
• 42:14
  They all have their phone in front of them looking down, even though they're with human beings at the table, nobody's talking to each other.
• 42:20
  They're on their phone.
• 42:22
  As if the people or the whoever is on their phone is more important than who they're there with publicly.
• 42:28
  I might be old.
• 42:28
  I might be old school on this, but if I'm going to dinner with a another friend, or you and I go to dinner, you will not see me pick up my phone.
• 42:36
  I just, it's just a disrespectful thing, and and I don't want to do it.
• 42:40
  Yeah.
• 42:40
  Yeah.
• 42:41
  I hear uh Simon Sinek, who I follow, I think he's brilliant.
• 42:45
  Yeah.
• 42:45
  Some of his insights, he's a great talker.
• 42:47
  I think one of the best TED talks I've seen is his talk on why.
• 42:52
  And uh it's fantastic.
• 42:54
  But he talks about this.
• 42:56
  Having a phone, even if it's sitting on the table, even if it's turned upside down, is a distraction.
• 43:01
  He said, What's so important that you need to have your phone, you know, at the ready when you're with somebody, put your phone away, put it in your purse, leave it in your car, and be present.
• 43:11
  And we've lost that art of being present.
• 43:14
  I started a charter school a few years back, K through 12 uh public charter school in the city of Orange, and one of our rules is no phones.
• 43:23
  So if a kid brings a phone to school, they turn it in at the front office, but they're not allowed to have a phone on campus.
• 43:28
  And so if you're on our campus and you walk around, whether it's recess or snack time or lunchtime, the kids don't have a phone, they're not on Instagram, they're not texting their family or whatever.
• 43:39
  They actually have to interact with each other, and it's it's a lost art of having a conversation.
• 43:45
  We're just we're not used to that anymore, unfortunately.
• 43:48
  Kudos for starting a school that has those uh principles.
• 43:52
  It's I agree a hundred percent with that.
• 43:54
  Yeah.
• 43:56
  Um, so we've got uh ChatGPT, probably the most well-known, recognized and used uh AI system, and then Elon Musk came out with his own called GROK.
• 44:08
  Yeah.
• 44:08
  How do they differ?
• 44:11
  Well, the LLMs differ based on the intelligence that goes into the the computer scientists and engineers that build them.
• 44:20
  And it gets very nuanced as to what LLMs are doing.
• 44:26
  I that to me, the the field is still playing out.
• 44:29
  Some people think anthropic and clawed is becoming more of a business-oriented, enterprise-oriented element.
• 44:37
  Those are those are different AI systems.
• 44:39
  Anthropic is the company and Claude is the LLM.
• 44:42
  Okay.
• 44:42
  And OpenAI is a company and chat GPT is the LLM.
• 44:46
  Got it.
• 44:47
  So those are two different LLMs.
• 44:49
  And Grok.
• 44:50
  And Grok is Elon Musk's ex uh LOM.
• 44:55
  So he he's do his model is unique because he is taking his AI and really using it across his assets, which are Twitter or now X and SpaceX and everything that he's doing.
• 45:10
  And and so like he has integrated Grok into your Tesla, it's and it's a brilliant experience.
• 45:16
  He he just plugs his Grok right into his neural link right into his brain.
• 45:20
  Well, that's where he's suggesting that it wants to go.
• 45:23
  So grok is integrated with Tesla.
• 45:26
  And it's brilliant.
• 45:27
  If you if you get in the next Tesla, just have them, you know, as long as they have the most recent update to see what it's like.
• 45:33
  It's it's really cool.
• 45:34
  You know, you you and I could be driving down the street and say, Well, um, give me the closest Chinese restaurant, and uh, what what do I order there?
• 45:42
  And tell me what that store is that I just passed, and it's gonna come up like immediately because it knows where you are.
• 45:47
  Wow, yeah.
• 45:49
  It's like building in into the car is easy.
• 45:51
  I mean, you could do it with like my lucid and and chat GPT, but it's not seamless, it's not a simple.
• 45:57
  No, I mean, my car has Apple Play, so all my Apple stuff is on the screen.
• 46:01
  Uh and you know, of course, we use various mapping systems that are pretty impressive that will give you traffic that will divert you if there's an accident, things like that.
• 46:12
  I don't know if that's considered AI or not.
• 46:15
  Uh, but it's certainly impressive.
• 46:16
  Nobody knows where they go, and nobody knows how to get somewhere without uh some sort of GPS system.
• 46:23
  I I mean, you know, you're a little younger, but we're similar generation.
• 46:28
  I remember driving and we didn't have GPS.
• 46:30
  Yeah, we had to take out Thomas guides and you'd sit down with a Thomas guide before you were going to some new location and you'd friggin' map it out, yeah, and turn pages and draw lines and you know, it carries over on you know, 10 pages over, and then you'd kind of write out the directions.
• 46:48
  Then if you got lost, you know what you used to do if you get lost for younger people that are listening to this podcast.
• 46:53
  You used to pull into a gas station and ask directions.
• 46:56
  Yeah, that's that's that's years gone by.
• 46:59
  I have a fun idea that I could share for your listeners, maybe on how to if they're just trying to figure out AI, like what something for fun to do.
• 47:09
  Sure, like download chat GPT or Grok or pick your LLM Claude, uh Gemini was his Google, and start having a verbal conversation with it.
• 47:21
  Turn on the speaker speaker and pick a topic.
• 47:26
  And what I suggest, and it'll it'll speak back to you, not just type back to you.
• 47:31
  It will speak back to you, it will call you by your name, like you develop a relationship with it.
• 47:36
  Now, what I'd like to share is um don't do it alone.
• 47:41
  You um do it with somebody, have a three-way conversation on pick a topic, Bitcoin, um Chinese food, anything, but have a three-way conversation with AI because the multi, and I and I saw this in December of 22 when I first got addicted to using AI.
• 48:02
  Like if you have multi different brains from different perspectives addressing AI on a topic, your learning goes incrementally faster versus just a one-on-one.
• 48:15
  Like the more it's does the AI learning go up too.
• 48:18
  Well, AI is reacting to the conversation.
• 48:22
  So I'll give you an example.
• 48:23
  So I could do this with a patient.
• 48:24
  Exactly.
• 48:25
  Like if you were my patient and we were reviewing labs, I could say, Joe, here are the things I see in your labs, and I think there's inflammation and metabolic dysfunction.
• 48:34
  This is the path forward that I think.
• 48:36
  Hey, uh Chat GPT, what do you think?
• 48:39
  You're listening to this conversation.
• 48:40
  Does this make sense to you?
• 48:42
  Absolutely.
• 48:43
  And then have your patient after he says it, chime in and say, Well, but I'm feeling this.
• 48:48
  Like get into a three-way conversation.
• 48:50
  Interesting.
• 48:51
  Oh, it's it that's where the learning and you can see.
• 48:55
  Well, then the patient might realize that they don't actually need me.
• 48:59
  I don't know about if that's true at this stage, but but because you're ultimately quarterbacking that is it recorded, yeah.
• 49:00
  If that's true at this stage, but but because you're ultimately quarterbacking that is it recorded?
• 49:06
  Yeah, everything's everything is recorded.
• 49:06
  Everything's everything is recorded.
• 49:08
  Like after let's say I have a 15-minute conversation with a patient and the AI.
• 49:08
  Like after, let's say I have a 15-minute conversation with a patient and the AI.
• 49:13
  Could they then have access to it to listen to it later?
• 49:13
  Could they then have access to it to listen to it louder?
• 49:15
  100%.
• 49:15
  100%.
• 49:17
  Thousand percent.
• 49:17
  Thousand percent.
• 49:18
  Interesting.
• 49:18
  Interesting.
• 49:19
  Try right after this.
• 49:19
  Try right after this.
• 49:20
  I will, yeah.
• 49:20
  I will, yeah.
• 49:21
  Or tomorrow in the office.
• 49:21
  Or tomorrow in the office.
• 49:22
  I'm gonna or another, like I'll give you the fun one.
• 49:22
  I'm gonna or another, like I'll give you the fun one.
• 49:26
  I was driving, I was driving up to um C V.
• 49:26
  I was driving, I was driving up to um see the the uh show Chicago at um in the Pantagesous Theater.
• 49:35
  This is two and a half years ago.
• 49:37
  Yeah, and my significant other and I we're gonna be about 10 minutes late.
• 49:42
  So we started, I started having a three-way conversation.
• 49:44
  Tell us about the show Chicago and Misco's in the cart.
• 49:49
  What would she get out of this show?
• 49:52
  And she's gonna tell you what she's interested in.
• 49:54
  So she started talking to AI and said, Well, I'm interested in the fashion and the songs and the and the transitions and what was happening when they when they did that show.
• 50:06
  And AI is talking to both of us having a three-way conversation as we were driving up to see the show, and that just enhanced our experience because we we were in in a very short period of time, we were quickly brought up to speed.
• 50:21
  How interesting.
• 50:22
  Yeah.
• 50:23
  So we you know, we went to a basketball game together recently.
• 50:27
  Uh you were so kind to invite a few of us to a clipper game, and the intuit stadium is pretty amazing.
• 50:32
  And I got to drive with a friend of yours, um, uh Harold uh Presley, Harold Presley.
• 50:39
  He's a former player for the San Francisco Kings.
• 50:43
  Uh he's a devout Christian and very biblically literate.
• 50:47
  So, anyways, we were driving up there, and it would have been fun to turn on, he was in a Tesla, whatever the grok system, and to talk about the intuitive uh uh state um stadium and the clippers and so forth.
• 51:00
  That's what we did in our car, right?
• 51:01
  Because you don't yeah, I I had a conversation.
• 51:04
  I say, I'm taking my friends to the Intuit Dome.
• 51:08
  It's a 1.5 billion stadium.
• 51:10
  I heard million dollar build out, I heard it's the most modern stadium.
• 51:13
  What type of experience can we look at?
• 51:15
  That is awesome.
• 51:16
  That is awesome.
• 51:17
  Now you're you what is the system in your fake Tesla?
• 51:21
  In my fake Tesla, I I just use chat.
• 51:23
  So it's um lucids are behind Tesla, so there's no integrated AI yet.
• 51:28
  Yeah.
• 51:28
  Um, and that's a different topic.
• 51:30
  So I just have to use Chat GPT.
• 51:32
  Oh, you you used your phone with ChatGPG.
• 51:35
  I've never spoken to ChatGPT, but I'm gonna do that now.
• 51:38
  Oh, yeah, we're gonna do it right after this.
• 51:39
  I didn't know that it even has a voice that'll talk to you.
• 51:42
  What I have noticed, because I do use Chat GPT fairly consistently.
• 51:45
  It helps me write Substack articles and the like.
• 51:48
  Yeah, is that the more I use it and the better my prompts, the more it gets to know me.
• 51:53
  So now it's writing exactly into my language with the prompts, and then it's easy to fine-tune the articles and to change them out and so forth.
• 52:00
  And it's it's it's eerily personal.
• 52:05
  Yeah, it's scare, it's scary how personal it is that it knows me.
• 52:10
  You could also prime it even further.
• 52:13
  So for my AI, because I am a person who overthinks things, I primed it and I said, I want you to speak to me with sovereignty.
• 52:23
  I want you to get with sovereignty sovereignty.
• 52:25
  Oh, I want you when I have a conversation with you, I want you to give me answers that are very direct that point me down a road and don't give me many options.
• 52:35
  Interesting.
• 52:36
  Yeah, so you could tune it.
• 52:38
  So you talk to it all the time.
• 52:40
  I use it every day.
• 52:41
  You do many times talking to it, every talking to her, writing it.
• 52:45
  I'm I'm uh I'm compulsively using it and I encourage anyone.
• 52:51
  Well, I'll just make it personal.
• 52:53
  I talk to my daughter every week, and I I don't ask her, I beg her to be curious about AI and to use it every day, no matter what she's thinking about, whatever she's doing, not just her academic studies, but anything, anything, anything.
• 53:09
  Why do you think that's so important?
• 53:10
  Because that's where the world is going.
• 53:12
  You would it's that to me are there privacy concerns?
• 53:16
  Some people have that.
• 53:17
  I don't.
• 53:17
  I mean, if I'm sharing my personal life with uh machine, yeah, aren't there privacy concerns?
• 53:23
  Um, I'm past that.
• 53:24
  I mean, I'm not gonna obviously I'm thinking of going out and robbing this, you know, liquor store.
• 53:29
  Yeah, no, but I mean, if I'm actually getting real with this machine, and I want to get the most out of it as you're describing, yeah, and I need to be fairly personal with it.
• 53:41
  Where where's where's this material stored?
• 53:43
  Um well, there are hyperscalers that own data centers that are processing the data.
• 53:51
  So that's that's a short answer.
• 53:53
  Hyperscalers are companies like Microsoft app um Amazon, Oracle, Google, they have these massive servers, correct.
• 54:01
  Yeah.
• 54:02
  That are processing the data and storing the data.
• 54:04
  So that's so it's stored all my information that I'm asking about, all the substack articles, anything that I'm sharing is stored somewhere.
• 54:11
  Yeah, um, yes, yes.
• 54:13
  If someone had uh got access to your phone and and they could access your i is it stealable that we now are getting into a cybersecurity.
• 54:23
  Is it is it accessible by law enforcement?
• 54:26
  Like if they suspect that I may have committed a crime, is there a way that they could go into my chat and my whatever and get this information?
• 54:34
  Getting into a legal topic, I I would venture not to guess on we need an AI attorney.
• 54:39
  You you we we live in a time that data is accessible, especially if if law enforcement wants to government.
• 54:48
  There's there's studies on it.
• 54:50
  I I don't I don't want to comment on it, but I would just I would just say I'm I'm very curious.
• 54:56
  I use it all the time.
• 54:58
  I don't back down because of fear.
• 55:01
  I think we're living in the most fascinating time, truly.
• 55:06
  That's why I got up at 5 30 every morning.
• 55:08
  There, like life is so fascinating to me of what you can do, what's possible now?
• 55:14
  Like everybody's IQ, as long as you're curious, your IQ just jumped 50 points.
• 55:21
  Are you sure?
• 55:22
  Or does your IQ not have to go up because all this information is so readily accessible, you don't really have to learn anything.
• 55:29
  My point is if you're curious, you and you and you're well rounded and you know what to you're looking for, and you know what outcome you want, it's we're in living in a time that's never before existed.
• 55:46
  Because AI can make idiots look really smart.
• 55:49
  Well, I mean, there's people that say you no longer like the value of a PhD, like anybody could truly get a PhD if they know how to build a curriculum with AI.
• 56:00
  And so it should it should change the nature of education.
• 56:00
  And so it should it should change the nature of education.
• 56:06
  I mean, to me, that's a no-brainer.
• 56:06
  I mean uh to me, that's a no-brainer.
• 56:10
  Yeah, amazing.
• 56:10
  Yeah, amazing.
• 56:11
  Amazing.
• 56:11
  Amazing.
• 56:12
  Yeah.
• 56:12
  Yeah.
• 56:13
  Uh so we're out of time, believe it or not.
• 56:13
  Uh, so we're out of time, believe it or not.
• 56:15
  Right.
• 56:15
  Right.
• 56:15
  So we could keep talking for hours about this because it's so fast.
• 56:15
  So we could keep talking for hours about this because it's so fascinating.
• 56:18
  Love this topic.
• 56:19
  Uh, but Joe, it's an honor.
• 56:19
  Uh, but Joe, it's an honor.
• 56:21
  And uh thank you for joining us on Informed Descent.
• 56:21
  And uh thank you for joining us on Informed Descent.
• 56:25
  Okay, happy to be here.
• 56:25
  Okay, happy to be here.
• 56:30
  You've been listening to Informed Descent with Dr.
• 56:33
  Jeff Barkey, board certified primary care physician, and Dr.
• 56:37
  Mark McDonald, board certified child, adolescent, and adult psychiatrist.
• 56:43
  Informed dissent, the intersection of healthcare and politics.