Latest / The Growth Project / Episode 384: The Psychology of Pushing Limits

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Episode 384: The Psychology of Pushing Limits · The Growth Project

• 0:00
  we, we've said this plenty on the growth project, the ways in which stress makes us a little more selfish. And we get hyper focused on ourselves.
• 0:08
  That can be very counterproductive to performing at our best. Yeah. And so we want to be able to kind of get into that mode of like, wait a second, how do I see the picture? Or more broadly, than just what I want, what I want to see happen for me? There's a lot more to the story than just myself.
• 0:26
  Welcome to the growth Project, a podcast brought to you by Angelo's Fired up to be here today. Doctor Drew Brandon joined by Doctor Gabby. Caveat as welcome. Doctor Gabby. Yeah. I'm good. Welcome, doctor drew. Good, good.
• 0:43
  Yeah. You did a great job of, kind of bringing today's discussion to the table because, honestly, prior to you bringing this up, I had not heard of this event before. So let's start there. Right. So educate us. Please inform us a little bit in that we're talking about the. I kind of like the way this rolls off the town.
• 1:01
  The time the coca. Donna 250 yeah, right. The coca donna two coca down to 250. What in the world is the coca? Donna 250 well, you know, it's it's interesting because it's not something I'm super familiar with. I'm not a runner. So I was actually quite surprised that you hadn't heard of it.
• 1:18
  Are you is this is that your way of kind of like, questioning how legitimate?
• 1:21
  Yeah. How legitimate of a runner are you? You know, but you proven that. No, but it it is so fascinating. The coca down to 250 is a 250 mile ultramarathon. I believe it takes place in Arizona. You know, it's kind of the the toughest of the tough go there.
• 1:42
  I think it's so fascinating. I spoke a while ago on the podcast about my sister doing a 100 mile ultramarathon, and this just takes it to a whole nother level.
• 1:51
  It really does. And that's not to minimize what she did. No, she was 100. Yeah, 100 miles.
• 1:56
  this is a big space that I think is more, you know, could very well could be that a lot of our listeners are not aware of how big the space of which ultra racing is. It's huge.
• 2:08
  Ultra racing exist not just in running. I mean the motor forms of everything, whether it's riding a bike. They have this in paddling where people are paddling, whether it's a canoe or kayak, they have swimming. But like any form of a of a aerobic exercise that you can imagine, there is a huge space and what we call kind of the ultra category, where as people watch and people are going like a really, really, really, really long time, what seems humanly impossible, honestly, but, you know, these elite athletes just continue to, you know, raise that ceiling higher and higher as to like what we're capable of, cardiovascular endurance wise.
• 2:47
  It's very fascinating. And I think what's really interesting about the space, too, that that fits. So well, what we talk about in the Growth project is, I mean, if you've ever run a mile, like, let's, let's shrink this way down. But if we begin thinking about different forms of aerobic exercise, running a mile is an easy example.
• 3:06
  It doesn't take you very long to get to that mile, to begin to realize very quickly the psychological implications of doing that. Yeah. Because it's it's very simple. And that when you begin to put your body into a demanding, stressful, challenging type state, here comes your mind, here comes your internal thoughts. Here comes a whole host of questions that people often begin asking along the lines of why am I doing this?
• 3:36
  What am I doing? Am I going to make it is, you know, you know, do I stop I there's just so talk about that. Yeah. You talk about some of the, just the intense psychological distress that can sometimes pop up here. Yeah, well, there's, of course, the science behind it is, how long does it take your body to get to that, that steady state.
• 3:56
  Right. Physiologically, we know it takes anywhere from like, 4 to 10 minutes to get to your steady state of, like, breath rate and heart rate and to kind of beat that barrier. So when you're thinking about a mile, I know for myself, my mile time is probably just sub10. I'm not a runner and probably more like eight minutes, but I know that for the entirety of the first half, I am just thinking about how terrible this is.
• 4:28
  Then breathing starts to stabilize. You start to kind of get into a rhythm and it becomes slightly easier, but then you hit a point where we're talking about ultra endurance, fatigue. You know, your body can only handle so much. And then at what point, is your mind playing a factor in that as well? And oftentimes, our mental is what prevents us from achieving what we can physically.
• 4:59
  But then in instances like this, it's fascinating because, you know, I've seen it, where runners, their body gives out on them. So. Yeah. And ultra you're, you're, you're looking at how the mental and the physical limits really come into play. And how do you challenge yourself to really test those limits and push those boundaries, you know, and so I think that's a great word.
• 5:24
  Limits is a really, really important word. And so we're going to use this specific race as Covid on a 250 as the vehicle on the conversation. But what we're really talking about is when you are put on your limit where it's like, man, I am kind of at the top of my capability here. I'm stressed. There's pressure involved.
• 5:45
  If we're talking about exercise, it's like physically challenging and hard and uncomfortable. But gosh, how do you handle those type of moments? And when you're in kind of intense, demanding, scenarios or how are you able to navigate that hopefully in a way where you maintain composure, you you go and find some fuel, some grit, some resilience. So we're going to use her as an example.
• 6:09
  Yeah. So so let's get into it. Yeah. So why was this such a significant milestone version of this race? Well, this was the first time a woman has won the race overall. Rachel and Trey again. You know, it's such a fascinating story behind her accomplishment here. Not only did she win overall, but she also set a course record of completing the race and about, 56 hours, give or take a little bit there.
• 6:39
  Heard that correctly. Did do the math on that. 250 miles covered in 56 hours. And this was earlier this month. Yeah. Beginning in May. Beginning of May. Yeah. And it was, you know, fascinating. As I was doing the research on on her and her kind of mindset coming into this race and what her goals were coming into this race.
• 7:04
  And she had three goals. The first was to have women completing the race around the 60 hour mark, for women to be in the top three overall, and then for at least three women to be in the top ten. Now, she checked all three of these off of her goal list, which is quite incredible.
• 7:26
  So which okay, let's take a step back on that.
• 7:30
  She's got three goals for this race. None of them are about her. Not a single one. No I'm sure understandably like when she's making it goals such as to have three women in the top ten. It would be great with her if she's one of them. Right. But I don't see in her written goals her name anywhere.
• 7:48
  No. So so let's think about that like it's an individual sport. Aerobic endurance athletes. It's very normal for them to be pretty selfish quite honestly. Yeah. In part because you have to put such an intense focus on your training, the lifestyle. It's all, it's in many ways it's kind of if you're not careful, it's all about you.
• 8:14
  So I think it's really interesting and impactful that she has these goals and none of them have her name on it. Yeah I found that so fascinating. Is one that they weren't about her. They were just about women in her sport. And like you said inherently there is an underlying assumption that she would be a part of those three in some capacity.
• 8:36
  But it really was this, this higher purpose, of it's not about me. It's about what I want, women to be accomplishing within this space. Yeah. I just can't think of another example. Not that we always have visibility into any person. Goals for an event. But in an individual sport. Yeah. To go into an event like this, which for them is, you know, kind of like a Super Bowl of, of a culture of ultra racing and have a goal that includes even a heck of, you know, if you're included in the event you're thinking about anybody besides you.
• 9:11
  Right? Is really unique. Well, I mean, when we think about goal setting, right? And just, the principles, basic principles, the goal setting, we do individual goal setting, we do team goal setting.
• 9:24
  And and she kind of took this individual goal setting approach, but at a team level. Yeah. Very unique. Gabby. Let's think about that.
• 9:33
  Let's let's get real concrete. Let's imagine we have a race the night before the race. And this example could be it could be true for really for any person who has anything upcoming in a way of a competition event. It's the night before the race. Of course she's nervous. She's stressed. There's all this unknown associated with the next 250 miles.
• 9:55
  No day. What impact do you think it could have had on her psychologically that she had. She has a vision for this race that broader than just her. How could that make a difference. Well one of the biggest challenges with individual sports is the pressure that you put on yourself. Yes. And so this is a way of taking some of that pressure off of you yourself, while still having a vision of of what you want to accomplish.
• 10:26
  But you are not solely responsible for that vision coming to life. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I agree with you completely. You look at the field of sports psychology. Well, where did sports psychology really kind of get start in in a formal sports sense. In golf. Like where would sports psychology be without golf. Right. And why is that.
• 10:46
  Because it's just you out there. Right. And it's hard. It's a solo job. It's a long day. It's a difficult sport with extremely, extremely small margins. And it puts a heck of a burden on people psychologically. And that's to in large part why sports psychology got off the ground. Yeah. So very unique approach from a very unique approach.
• 11:09
  And you know like I said all three of these were achieved which means that not only did she accomplish things herself but other women were had to have been hopefully aware of these goals. Like I'm sure she shared that and I know the running community is very supportive of each other usually. So I'm sure she shared these goals with at least her inner circle of other women runners.
• 11:40
  But yeah, I mean, the fact that it took almost this team approach to accomplish all three of her goals. So I just want to make one final comment that before we transition to our next part of our discussion here and just, you know, the next time you are staring down the tunnel of something that is creating pressure and stress.
• 11:59
  I really would challenge you to take a deep breath, take a step back and try to see at least a little bit of a bigger picture than maybe you're seeing in that. Because what's normal is
• 12:12
  we, we've said this plenty on the growth project, the ways in which stress makes us a little more selfish. And we get hyper focused on ourselves.
• 12:21
  That can be very counterproductive to performing at our best. Yeah. And so we want to be able to kind of get into that mode of like, wait a second, how do I see the picture? Or more broadly, than just what I want, what I want to see happen for me? There's a lot more to the story than just myself.
• 12:36
  Yeah. I mean, and when we take this into a corporate setting, like, or just any setting where you're working on a team, having collective standards that you're holding your team accountable to, that you're holding yourself accountable to, like, that's how you we talk about influencing results all the time. Like that's how you do that is through this collective shared standards.
• 12:58
  Yeah. Very true, very true. Okay, so we've got this this 253 goals, none of which are specific to her. Let's get into kind of like let's talk more, Gabby, about what was what was her mindset going in as far as how she was thinking about trying to attack this race. So what what I saw was really this approach of fueling the system, and that she removed the guesswork out of, you know, preparation and really dialed in two years before really taking this on.
• 13:34
  She got in with a, sports dietitian, and really dialed in on the nutrition side of things, and got very structured with her approach on timing her carbs. How many, you know, grams of carbs he needed per hour? And a hydration plan associated with that. So it was no longer a. Well, I'm just going to, you know, fuel my body as to what feels right.
• 14:03
  It's. What's the science behind getting the most optimal physical performance?
• 14:09
  Which emphasizes the importance of it can build a great team. Build a great team behind you. Yes. It's an individual sport. And like I've seen this a ton in the world of golf. The players that I work with. Common denominator. They built great teams. Yeah.
• 14:23
  And I think in the women's sport of golf like we're talking about everything from agent to physio to short game coach putting coach and coach. It's a big team. It is. And that's you know there's a reason for that. Yeah. Now, the second half of this, I was as she did everything as, you know, detailed as she could when it came to her physical preparation, but mental preparation as well.
• 14:48
  I mean, when you're training for something like this, you're putting yourself through physical stress. But mental stress at the same time. So she was also trying to figure out what strategies work best for me. And what does that look like in terms of my my sleep, my focus managing? We'll get into this, some of the challenges that she encountered.
• 15:11
  But things like hallucinations when you're running, you know, how do you mentally. Yeah. Reorient.
• 15:20
  Yeah, I, I haven't experienced that before. You haven't ran that long to experience a hallucination. Not sight. Well, this is what you do, and you begin to hallucinate in order to keep going. There is, an interview she gave, and it was interesting because she was talking about the hallucinations she experienced.
• 15:40
  And they would be kind of peripheral, seeing, like, animals, coming across the course. And then she said the strongest hallucination she saw was, somebody running in front of her who she knew, kind of transformed into, like, a bird.
• 15:56
  it was funny, her, her grounding technique in that was to vocalize it and say, hey, are you seeing what I'm seeing?
• 16:05
  And so that was her her approach of like, grounding herself and bringing it back and saying, okay, no, this is just.
• 16:12
  My mind. It's the right time to meet our listeners that we are not suggesting that we feel fully alive or accomplished or stretching yourself outside your comfort zone. You need to be doing ultra, right. Right. You know, we are not saying that. We just instead are, you know, our listeners will hopefully find that and they understand more.
• 16:34
  Right. These are very extreme, very extreme, very extreme. But I mean lessons we can learn from it. And, and extract. So there's some fantastic lessons in here. So let's talk about the sleep stuff. Yeah. Because this is really interesting. And I'm sure you're if you're listening to this maybe you're driving down the road 56 hours and you know, to be clear, not 56 hours in a La-Z-Boy.
• 16:58
  Yeah. Or, you know, parked in front of your television on your favorite couch or not sedentary. 56 hours of racing. Running. Yeah. And then if you've ever been to Arizona, people have. This is not, like, easy terrain. No. To Iowa. I was one of many states we can say that pretty flat, right? But, like, you can see a long way.
• 17:24
  Yeah. Not in Arizona. Yeah. So these are not just like, oh, I'm going to run down hill and not have to come back uphill. Right. Really challenging to ride. Yeah. And yet it's a race. So what you don't have the luxury of doing is saying oh you know what I see a mile down the road. They've got a courtyard and we're going to duck in there, take a nap to sleep and they'll have the continental breakfast set up for me tomorrow morning.
• 17:48
  Off we go. So Gabby will talk about what she did in terms of her sleep. Honestly, I'm not sure how it's humanly possible, but what she did is she took three. What she called dirt naps. Totaling only 19 minutes across all three. The first dirt nap she took was five minutes. So just five minutes of sleep.
• 18:13
  And then the other two were seven minutes each throughout the race. That's hard to believe. You know, and I get the dirt part out of the dirt. Yeah. And I think as well, she fell asleep while running one time, too. Yes. Yeah. I don't know how you do that, but I guess if you're running as long as possible.
• 18:33
  Yeah. Yeah. It is. Not only is it crazy to think that you can sustain performance off of that little sleep, but I think about myself. How do you fall off? I don't fall asleep in five minutes. So. And it's, you know, you set a timer for five minutes by the time you actually, I mean, granted, you're physically and mentally exhausted, so you probably fall asleep much faster.
• 19:01
  But what, you get four minutes of sleep and then your alarms going off the to get up and start running again. Yeah, that's definitely hard to believe. I mean, I have a very rudimentary understanding of the the science of sleep, right? Like sleep. Sleep debt is very real. Pretty straightforward. The longer you, push past where you should be of getting sleep, you accumulate a sleep.
• 19:22
  Right. And the larger your sleep, that is, the harder it is to get out of bed. Can you imagine the sleep debt associated with this now. Yeah. You know I'd be curious to, to go more into whoever was kind of coaching her on the, the science behind this, but you know, circadian rhythms you get into all of that.
• 19:42
  But you know, what I saw and in her explanation of this, was that the goal of these naps was not to, provide comfort or, you know, to really feel well rested. It was to preserve her decision making.
• 19:59
  Which is very interesting. Almost like a, like that you're pulling off at the side of the highway and giving kind of, like, a jumpstart to your brain.
• 20:08
  Yeah. Really? What that was. Exactly. A massive cognitive recharge. Right. And so I think let's be sure we don't miss this as well because obviously we are not advocating for life. As long as you get 19 minutes. You know we're not saying that. And most of us are not going to be nearly all of us are not going to be good at doing something like this.
• 20:32
  Right. And we also don't want to advocate for trying to create some kind of unhealthy pattern. However having said that what is really relevant here to me and interesting and cool is we're all going to have those, there's periods of time where there's just a lot going on. And maybe it's personal, maybe it's professional, maybe it's both.
• 20:55
  But you're going to have these periods of what you know what. You don't get as much sleep as you would otherwise. Yeah. And although we don't want you doing that for a long time, the body is unbelievably resilient. The body and the mind are just incredibly resilient. When you can't give your brain and your body what it needs.
• 21:15
  Yeah. It's amazing how to do that. It is, it's It's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I, I go back to some of the research I was doing in the space of mental rest, and one of the principles that we found was around micro recovery. And that's exactly what this is like. These short bouts of rest or relaxation to allow your mind, your cognitive and your emotional states to to re-energize or to have that quick shut off so that then they can come back and activate again.
• 21:48
  I think that that's application piece here is that when you are in those seasons of busyness and you're not getting as much sleep, or you're just having a really busy day, finding 2 to 3 minutes to just close your eyes for a second or, you know, detach for a minute. And the effect that, that can have on your decision making skills on your cognitive processing, emotion regulation, all of these areas.
• 22:15
  Yeah. You know, it makes me think about. And this is probably a little more applicable to a lot of our listeners on this micro breaks. I can remember I had, there was a business leader, company leader I was working with years ago, and we were talking one day about some of his, like a year in and year out practices that he had figured out.
• 22:36
  And so he gave me this example was really interesting. As he said for years he and his family, they would go on vacation for like two weeks. So once a year they would go do something for two weeks. Yeah. And then the remainder of the year he would barely vacation. Yeah. At all. And he finally realized he was like you know this just isn't working for me.
• 22:58
  Like the way I'm wired, it just isn't the right fit for me. And we eventually figured out what you said. We made a pivot. And what we started doing was we started taking, like, a four ish, like a Thursday to Sunday or Wednesday to Sunday trips, doing those like four times a year. And he said that was just so much better for me that I needed shorter trips.
• 23:22
  That happened more frequently. You know, it's exactly what you're saying. Like it's you can create more consistent. Don't need to be huge. Yeah. I mean like a Thursday to Sunday. That's a great that's a great getaway. Great getaway. There's ways to do this in smaller pieces that allow you to do it with more frequency. Yeah. And same thing with athletes.
• 23:42
  Like when I was working at the collegiate level, it was burnout was so prevalent in those that they would get to the point of saying I just need a two month break for my sport. Right. I need the whole summer fully away from my sport. But when they were able to kind of have those mini breaks throughout the year, throughout the school year, the season, it really mitigated that drastically.
• 24:04
  Yeah, that's exactly right. And it's not easy to do that in college athletics itself in this time. Yeah. If you don't find those times that's kind of where you end up. Exactly what you just described. All right. So just to close the loop on the the sleeping thing. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to forget that stat any time soon.
• 24:22
  No. 19 minutes. Over 56 hours. Yeah. Don't feel the need to ever know what that felt like. Yeah. And, hey, maybe for some you. Yeah. If we've got any listeners who are new parents dealing with the newborn, maybe this is helpful for you. Realizing that we got three hours sleep last night, but she got 90. Okay, so let's get into there is and this is true for really any ultra race Gabby.
• 24:52
  There is a massive problem solving component that unless you are doing that well and pretty good at it, you can't win. So what are some of the problems that we know she had to be solving. Well you know the first is obviously fatigue. And that shows up in a multitude of ways. It shows up in physical pain shows up and mental exhaustion, that school exhaustion, cramps.
• 25:20
  You know, I mean, there's the list goes on and on as to how that shows up for fatigue. I spoke briefly on the hallucinations piece, but then that shows up as, something you have to problem solve, right? Re grounding yourself. And then there's constant setbacks, whether that be terrain, whether that be, you have to stop because, you know, you you depleted your carbohydrates sooner than you expected to.
• 25:49
  Or maybe your shoelace comes some tidy, like, something so simple it could be a setback.
• 25:55
  Or one of your muscles tenses up, and now you have to pause, to, to allow that to, to normalize again. So there's constant need for adjustments to be made, to make decisions when you're experiencing that fatigue. Right. Have to do I stop?
• 26:13
  Do I keep pushing? I go back to my sister's experience. And around the 75 mile mark, she blew her knee out. I remember that. Yeah. So she blurring out around the 75 mile mark, and she had to make a decision in that moment. Do I keep going or do I call it? She kept going. But I, I can imagine like, how do you decision making under such stressful conditions like that is not an easy thing to do.
• 26:40
  Yeah. And I think the key here to me the key lesson is it's one thing to make decisions in situations that have some type of precedent. Have a playbook have a blueprint. Have the ability to kind of consult with your team. None of that is true in these situations. No it's just you. There is no precedent.
• 26:59
  Every decision. Almost every one of these is kind of a novel. Never been here type mode. Right. And yet you've got to consider all the variables that you can process realistically. Process. Yeah. The the stress, the moment to make decisions. Yeah. Really tough stuff. Very tough
• 27:15
  Okay, Gabby. So we know that the problem solving challenges in an ultra race are complex and tough. You think about this as a person is sleep deprived. They're. They could be low in calories.
• 27:28
  Yeah. They're not in their best state. So, yeah, I got to make critical decisions. Yeah. What is a really simple framework? Someone could fall back on it. You know, such as this. And I keep it very simple because that's all you can process in a moment like that, right? What is happening? Like, what am I experiencing right now?
• 27:49
  What matters in this? And then what's next? So it really the core principles here are an awareness around what's going on. What's your experiencing, what's important and then what can you act on, you know. Yeah. Because I think obviously that last question is the one that matters the most is we got to move in some type of direction.
• 28:13
  Right? We need to think we don't need to overthink. Can't be getting overly emotional about this. We've got to make the best decision possible. And this can help points in that direction. Absolutely. You got to go. Yeah. And you got to act on it. Yep. You know as you act on it, if you begin to get data that's suggesting, hey, maybe this wasn't the best plan or the best idea and you can run through it again, right?
• 28:33
  What's happening now? What's matters. What's next. All right. So let's I know we gotta move toward kind of wrapping up here. Yeah. But I want to be sure we hit this before we finish. I'm always really intrigued by a person who believes they can do something they've never done before. Whatever that might be of like, okay, you have confidence and belief that you can accomplish whatever outcome we're talking about.
• 28:58
  Yeah. Because we know that when you look at the signs of confidence, one of the ways we generate a lot of confidence is we go pull that mental file of like, oh yeah, I remember two years ago in this place. I've done this before. Right. What if you can't do that? Right. So talk a little bit about like, where do you think we can realistically imagine she was able to generate this kind of confidence and belief that she could get this stuff off.
• 29:22
  Well, she even talks about it. She describes it as she had a delusional belief. Yeah. She she's very upfront about that. That it was you who entered this race with a delusional belief around what the outcomes would be.
• 29:34
  But what's fascinating about that is that while it's delusional, it's still a belief, right? It's, it's something that is giving you direction.
• 29:43
  It's sustaining your motivation, your execution. And. And it did just that. This is why you always hear, like, dream big, right? When we're helping people, you know, create their their visions for their companies or for, you know, a venture that they're going to be, taking on. It's it's all about, though bigger and really getting to that point of it being delusional.
• 30:13
  Yeah. And I think even just going back to the basics on this is if it, if you need to have a history of something. In order to believe you can accomplish something big. I mean good luck with that. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Yes. I mean so you're holding yourself back. Yeah. There's always going to be a first layer.
• 30:33
  Yeah. Yeah. But I believe I have what it takes to be successful. And then boom, I got to cross the threshold for this. Yeah. And now maybe kind of aiming for dreaming, just like whatever I would call kind of the next big thing. You know, if you just take an easy example of like it's oh, you know, I play for my high school and we've never won a region championship before.
• 30:51
  Yeah. Okay great. I got to aspire to that. And then I do that and then it's like oh now I'm and you know, we've never won. Upper state before. We've never won a state championship before. But you got to believe you can do these things even though there's no history. Yeah. You can just go play for somebody else.
• 31:05
  Yeah. Now, the challenge here, too, is that sometimes when you start to have this delusional level of belief, the, the challenge arises in and that those around you may start to view you as, arrogant or overly good to all or crazy. Yeah. Yeah. So there's now you've got this challenge of, you know, is my belief, me being overly confident.
• 31:34
  Is it me being arrogant?
• 31:36
  And that's, Yeah, I struggle you have to deal with internally. Yeah, that's a really fine line of knowing the difference. I think it's also the importance of why having trusted people in your life, they're going to tell you the truth. Because there's got to be I mean let's just create an example here.
• 31:54
  Like let's say we have a person who has a very limited financial resources and is going to go start at some like company. Yeah. And they're already a kind of a hard times.
• 32:09
  On the one hand no one wants to shut down a person's dream. And so that's where I think it becomes a more public source of like maybe not right now. It's not a no, it's not right now. Right. But if you're thinking about some what we call I may have a delusional belief. I sure hope at least one other person who can be reasonably objective has said, I think this is a good idea.
• 32:30
  Yeah. Push yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're. You're not crazy to be leaning into that. Yeah. Check yourself at least a little bit. Yeah. And on the flip side of that, what it does give you is permission to fully show up. Right. A permission to fully commit to what you're doing. Because nobody else has achieved this. But I'm going to to test the limits here, and I'm going to allow myself the the space to do that.
• 32:59
  Yeah. Yeah. And so it just I think probably what it comes down to is although maybe you've never achieved whatever this might be, we would like to agree that hey you're trending there. Or in your favor we can see how your can doing this. And even in her case like she had one the female category. Yes. The women's category.
• 33:18
  Yeah. But had never won the race overall. So yeah. Okay. Like that's that's significant. You're trending in the right direction. Exactly. And so she she called a delusional confidence. Delusional belief. Not completely delusion. Right. That you've won the women's race. So. Yeah. Why can't you win overall? Exactly. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Well, final thoughts for you. Got me. You know, I, I think this, like we said throughout, is a very extreme example that we're, we're pulling from.
• 33:47
  But, it's really not about the ultra marathon. It's not about those endurance or the 250 miles. It's about the degree of control you have over your preparation. Over. You know, taking control of what what matters and how you're going to get from point A to point B and achieve what you want to achieve. So that's really what I think the the key takeaway here is, having that delusional belief in yourself.
• 34:17
  But then the preparation behind that. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you got to have I'd recommend you don't have one. And not the other. Yeah. If you're going to have belief of some things of significance, there's plenty of work to do. And it's going to require a lot more than just you really. Like it's great that you really want it.
• 34:36
  But there are, there's a long list of things you better be sure you're on top of in the way of preparation. Yeah. To give you a legitimate shot to pull it off. Okay. Well this has been you know, who knows. Maybe someone's going to want to sign up for the. Yeah. The 2027. Yeah. Good condition. Yeah.
• 34:53
  If anybody's into it, if you know. You understand? Yeah. But we as always thankful to our listeners for tuning in, but really challenge you to to think about the importance, and we've said this in prior episodes. We all need to be doing things that are tough. We need to be doing things that push us. And so this is an extreme example of that.
• 35:14
  Plenty of others available to you that is extreme. Yes. Be sure you're doing things that are difficult. On a consistent basis. It's really, really important for us as we grow and develop as people. Yeah. So with that said, thank you for tuning in and we will look forward to our next opportunity to spend time together on the Growth Project.
• 35:31
  Take care.