Latest / NO FILTER / Mother and daughter allegedly kidnap romantic rival and push her off a cliff to her death(MP3_160K)

Transcript

Mother and daughter allegedly kidnap romantic rival and push her off a cliff to her death(MP3_160K) · NO FILTER

0:00
Speaker 1: A word of warning. This podcast explores graphic and disturbing
0:03
Speaker 1: stories and includes some strong language. It therefore may not
0:07
Speaker 1: be suitable for our young listeners or other folks who
0:11
Speaker 1: may find it disturbing. Hello and welcome to True Crime News,
0:14
Speaker 1: the podcast covering high profile and under the radar cases
0:17
Speaker 1: from across the country. Every week. I'm your host Ana Garcia.
0:21
Speaker 1: Our case this week, police in Alabama say that a
0:25
Speaker 1: mother daughter duo killed another mom who was seen as
0:30
Speaker 1: a love rival for the affections of a man. The
0:33
Speaker 1: theory appears to be get rid of the woman and
0:35
Speaker 1: then you get the man. Well, the harsh reality here
0:38
Speaker 1: is that an innocent woman has been murdered. That man
0:41
Speaker 1: for sure wants nothing to do with the accused female killers.
0:45
Speaker 1: And now the daughter in that alleged murderous duo has
0:48
Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to murder and has agreed to testify against
0:53
Speaker 1: her mother in order to avoid the death penalty. Looks
0:57
Speaker 1: like the mother daughter bond may have been severed forever.
1:00
Speaker 1: We are recording this on Friday, September twenty six, twenty
1:04
Speaker 1: twenty five. Our guest today is Mike King, a law
1:06
Speaker 1: enforcement expert with a specialty in cults and serial predators.
1:12
Speaker 1: Mike is also the creator and host of Profiling Evil,
1:16
Speaker 1: not to mention a prolific author. Friend of the show,
1:19
Speaker 1: friend of mine. Welcome back, Mike. How are you.
1:22
Speaker 2: I'm great, Anna, Thanks so much for letting me come
1:25
Speaker 2: back and join you.
1:26
Speaker 3: It's so good to see you.
1:27
Speaker 1: I love your background. For those of you who are
1:30
Speaker 1: listening and are not watching, it's like you're in front
1:33
Speaker 1: of that Sears portrait studio. He has a background of
1:38
Speaker 1: fall leaves out on a deck somewhere in the leaves
1:41
Speaker 1: are moving in the wind.
1:44
Speaker 2: It is beautiful here or just the east of Park City,
1:47
Speaker 2: up in the mountains, so.
1:48
Speaker 3: Quite a bit east of Park City.
1:50
Speaker 1: Wow, well, it's beautiful. It's so cool that you can
1:53
Speaker 1: do this outside. I think one of these days I'm
1:55
Speaker 1: going to do it somewhere outside from La. Helicopters, sirens, Kai,
2:01
Speaker 1: life in La. All right, let's get down to the
2:05
Speaker 1: serious business today of this case, which really has me angry.
2:11
Speaker 1: It has me angry because I cannot tolerate the loss
2:15
Speaker 1: of life, and murder is not the solution to a problem.
2:19
Speaker 1: I say that over and over again. But there's something
2:22
Speaker 1: about when you have the alleged suspects. Here, the alleged
2:28
Speaker 1: killers are a mother and a daughter. This undoes me.
2:33
Speaker 1: It would be the same thing if it were a
2:35
Speaker 1: father and son or a mother and son. I mean,
2:37
Speaker 1: this inter multi generational crime spree is what has me
2:44
Speaker 1: so scared.
2:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, And the thing that really troubles me
2:48
Speaker 2: when we see cases like this is kind of the
2:51
Speaker 2: chicken in the egg question of is the child being
2:56
Speaker 2: compelled to be a part of this thing or is
2:59
Speaker 2: the child innately just kind of a crummy person anyway,
3:05
Speaker 2: And so I think as we unfold this one and
3:07
Speaker 2: we talk more about it, I mean, maybe it'll answer
3:10
Speaker 2: a few questions, maybe it'll cause us to have more
3:12
Speaker 2: I don't know.
3:14
Speaker 1: Well, child, I don't know if I would say that
3:16
Speaker 1: she was twenty at the time, so I'm.
3:21
Speaker 3: Well child prison.
3:24
Speaker 1: Old enough to know better though. But it's interesting that
3:26
Speaker 1: you use the term child because one of the things
3:29
Speaker 1: that she tried to do, that the daughter tried to do,
3:32
Speaker 1: was to convince the courts, well, you know, I was
3:35
Speaker 1: a youthful offender at the time, so I should be
3:37
Speaker 1: given some leniency. It's like, and the court said, yeah, no,
3:40
Speaker 1: you're twenty, you're not fourteen. Okay, let's get into this
3:46
Speaker 1: because we have a huge update on this murder case.
3:48
Speaker 1: That's why we're doing this case. It's out of De
3:50
Speaker 1: Caap County, Alabama, where police say a mother and daughter
3:53
Speaker 1: allegedly teamed up to kill a romantic rival. The daughter
3:59
Speaker 1: has agreed to a deal. She has pled guilty to murder.
4:03
Speaker 1: She has as part of this deal, she agrees to
4:06
Speaker 1: testify against her mother, and what she gets in return
4:09
Speaker 1: is she will be spared the death penalty. So the
4:12
Speaker 1: daughter is going to spend forty years in prison for
4:17
Speaker 1: her cooperation, which includes leading police to the remains of
4:23
Speaker 1: the victim.
4:23
Speaker 3: Here.
4:24
Speaker 1: So the daughter is twenty four year old Jesse Kelly,
4:27
Speaker 1: and what's interesting is will she will she buckle and
4:33
Speaker 1: change part of her story once it's time to testify
4:37
Speaker 1: in front of her mother. We'll get to that later.
4:40
Speaker 1: Her mother is forty five year old Loretta Carr. She
4:44
Speaker 1: is set to go on trial later this year for
4:47
Speaker 1: the murder of thirty seven year old Mary Elizabeth Isbel
4:51
Speaker 1: who went by Beth and also referred to as Mary.
4:54
Speaker 1: The mother daughter pair is accused of kidnapping Mary then
4:58
Speaker 1: pushing her off a cliff and the plan, according to authorities,
5:04
Speaker 1: was to make it look like Mary had jumped, which
5:08
Speaker 1: she did not. Now, Mary had just one child, Skyler.
5:14
Speaker 1: He was sixteen at the time his mother disappeared. Everyone
5:18
Speaker 1: knew something was wrong when Mary didn't call her son
5:22
Speaker 1: on his birthday, and so that's kind of where the
5:26
Speaker 1: clock begins for everyone. What's going on? Why would a
5:31
Speaker 1: mother not call her son? You know what happened. Yes,
5:37
Speaker 1: something is very wrong when a mother doesn't call her
5:39
Speaker 1: son on his birthday.
5:43
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I guess there's a couple of things
5:46
Speaker 3: that really bugged me.
5:47
Speaker 2: Number one is that it took a couple of months
5:50
Speaker 2: for the actual notification that she's missing to come out.
5:54
Speaker 2: And that's always troubling because it shows just a really
5:57
Speaker 2: dysfunctional family, in my opinion, a lot of disconnect. But
6:01
Speaker 2: that is such an important thing, because you're absolutely right.
6:05
Speaker 2: I don't know of any mother, regardless of their circumstance,
6:08
Speaker 2: that doesn't reach out to the children that they brought
6:11
Speaker 2: into this world, especially on something like a birthday. And
6:15
Speaker 2: I guess the question that I would have, as someone
6:17
Speaker 2: who always looks at behavior, is what has she done
6:21
Speaker 2: over the previous thirty seven Well, the previous seventeen years
6:25
Speaker 2: or sixteen years of this young man's life. Was she
6:28
Speaker 2: involved in that? Was it an important day or was
6:31
Speaker 2: it something that just really wasn't that important.
6:34
Speaker 3: So that kind of helps us.
6:35
Speaker 2: Kind of lean one way or another on how important
6:38
Speaker 2: the fact is she didn't call. But then even more
6:41
Speaker 2: troubling is that this human being disappears from the planet
6:46
Speaker 2: for months before somebody reports it.
6:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was something there, you know. Her family has
6:53
Speaker 1: recently come forward to speak a little bit about who
6:57
Speaker 1: she was and how much which they miss her. They
7:01
Speaker 1: recently did an interview with Way thirty one TV. Now,
7:07
Speaker 1: I agree, there's some things that we still don't know
7:09
Speaker 1: in this case, and you have to understand there's still
7:14
Speaker 1: one trial pending. One trial pending, so authorities have released
7:19
Speaker 1: quite a bit of information, but the details of who
7:22
Speaker 1: that man was right this alleged I guess love square
7:27
Speaker 1: because I don't even think it's a triangle. They have
7:30
Speaker 1: not been able to explain to us what happened, what
7:34
Speaker 1: allegedly set things off. He hasn't been identified. A lot
7:38
Speaker 1: of details that we don't know. Mary was actually reported
7:42
Speaker 1: missing by her ex husband and it wasn't until a
7:46
Speaker 1: few months later, So what there are a few things
7:51
Speaker 1: we don't understand, the kind of communication that was going on.
7:55
Speaker 1: Mary worked and she had her own remodeling business. And
8:01
Speaker 1: I also find it interesting that police talk about trying
8:03
Speaker 1: to find where Mary lived, that it took them time
8:09
Speaker 1: to figure out where her residence was. So I'm there's
8:13
Speaker 1: some details here that we are missing, and there may
8:16
Speaker 1: be a good reason why it's been withheld. I really
8:20
Speaker 1: don't know. But at the end of the day, you
8:22
Speaker 1: have one woman who has been murdered in a most
8:25
Speaker 1: brutal way and for there is no good reason. This
8:31
Speaker 1: was ridiculous, ridiculous. I don't know what these two were thinking.
8:36
Speaker 1: I just again, the stupidity and the lack of respect
8:40
Speaker 1: for life is what always upsets me so much, you know, Anna.
8:46
Speaker 2: And the other thing that kind of troubles me is
8:48
Speaker 2: that clearly law enforcement has made a link analysis from
8:53
Speaker 2: this supposed man in the life of both the victim
8:56
Speaker 2: and the perpetrator or the alleged perpetrator this case. But
9:01
Speaker 2: why don't we know more about that? Why isn't there
9:03
Speaker 2: some social media about my girlfriend's missing, or why isn't
9:08
Speaker 2: there some kind of contact that says that these three
9:13
Speaker 2: people were connected together in place and time. What were
9:16
Speaker 2: the conversations that maybe were had after the victim is
9:21
Speaker 2: thrown off the cliff? And is there supposition that's being
9:27
Speaker 2: brought up like hey, you'll never have to worry about
9:29
Speaker 2: her again, or let me make it clear that I'm
9:31
Speaker 2: the one that you love. But all of that just
9:34
Speaker 2: speaks to this desperate feeling that the alleged perpetrator must
9:41
Speaker 2: have had to go to these kinds of extremes. It
9:44
Speaker 2: was a younger woman, and as my wife often says,
9:48
Speaker 2: be very cautious of a woman's scorn.
9:51
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, look, if what the authorities are
9:56
Speaker 1: saying is true about Loretta Carr, it's just like, let
10:02
Speaker 1: me just tell you here, Loretta, he wants nothing. Did
10:05
Speaker 1: you do with you right now? Let me tell you. Okay,
10:08
Speaker 1: this is just the reality. I just sometimes think and
10:12
Speaker 1: I always Here's the other thing, because they supposedly kidnapped
10:16
Speaker 1: Mary on top of all of this that it makes
10:19
Speaker 1: you think at each point you could have stopped and said, Okay,
10:25
Speaker 1: well this is bad, but murder is worse. But no, no,
10:28
Speaker 1: it's like where is that self control button? Where is it? Okay,
10:34
Speaker 1: let's get back. Let's get back to the case. This
10:36
Speaker 1: is a case that's been going on for a long time,
10:39
Speaker 1: four years. For the first two no one knew what
10:42
Speaker 1: happened to Mary. No one knew what happened to Mary,
10:46
Speaker 1: you know, and then everything changes when a tip comes
10:50
Speaker 1: into police in twenty twenty three and that led them directly,
10:54
Speaker 1: they say to the mother daughter team. The two were arrested,
10:57
Speaker 1: and apparently the daughter is the one who who led
11:01
Speaker 1: authorities to the area where Mary was killed and they
11:04
Speaker 1: ultimately found her remain. So what's interesting is, even to
11:08
Speaker 1: this day, police say that one of the co conspirators
11:11
Speaker 1: led them to the body, but they won't name which one. Well,
11:15
Speaker 1: there's only two, and one has agreed to testify against
11:18
Speaker 1: the other. So who do you think it is? It
11:22
Speaker 1: has to be the daughter.
11:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the deal maker. I mean, yeah, I'm with
11:29
Speaker 3: you exactly.
11:31
Speaker 1: So that's also kind of a little odd. It's like
11:35
Speaker 1: to the authorities, it's you know, it's like, you know,
11:38
Speaker 1: the kid who has like a little sheet and is
11:40
Speaker 1: pretending to be invisible because he or she has covered
11:43
Speaker 1: is like, but you don't see me. I'm like, hello,
11:46
Speaker 1: you've only got two co conspirators. Here one has led
11:49
Speaker 1: you to the body by your own details that you
11:53
Speaker 1: have released, So which one is it?
11:55
Speaker 2: It has to be her, So it doesn't it make
12:00
Speaker 2: thank you wonder Anna if drugs are involved or other
12:04
Speaker 2: kinds of things where after a period of time sitting
12:08
Speaker 2: in jail on a rest warrant, that some clarity comes
12:12
Speaker 2: and they say, hey, I'm going to try to clean
12:14
Speaker 2: this up, or a lawyer steps in and says, hey,
12:16
Speaker 2: I think we can make a little bit of a deal,
12:18
Speaker 2: which I don't know. Forty years doesn't seem like that
12:21
Speaker 2: good of a deal in this day in climate, but
12:26
Speaker 2: something had to have happened where all of a sudden,
12:29
Speaker 2: if one of the two perpetrators comes forward and says,
12:33
Speaker 2: let me show you where the body is and let
12:35
Speaker 2: me tell you all about it, that they haven't had some.
12:38
Speaker 3: Kind of a moral awakening.
12:41
Speaker 2: And I don't ever see that in psychopathic personalities, but
12:45
Speaker 2: I do see it when there's somebody that's involved with
12:48
Speaker 2: drug abuse or other things and they finally start to
12:50
Speaker 2: get their mind clear.
12:52
Speaker 1: It could be, but it also could be. You know
12:56
Speaker 1: that if what she is saying is true, the daughter
13:00
Speaker 1: is saying is true, and I don't know the truth honestly,
13:03
Speaker 1: because I'm sorry you sat and you lived your life
13:06
Speaker 1: for two years until this tip came in. Mary was
13:10
Speaker 1: dead and everyone was missing her, but you went on
13:14
Speaker 1: with your life. So I'm sorry you got no sympathy
13:16
Speaker 1: for doing quote the right thing, telling people where Mary's
13:20
Speaker 1: body is and then confessing to it, and then testifying
13:23
Speaker 1: against your mother. I think it's entirely possible that if
13:28
Speaker 1: she was pressured by her mother, Loretta, and she realized
13:32
Speaker 1: what she was facing, that her only way out, really,
13:37
Speaker 1: especially if she's not the one who pushed Mary, her
13:42
Speaker 1: only way out, and it's not even out, is to
13:44
Speaker 1: just tell the truth. Just tell the truth, you know.
13:49
Speaker 2: Well, and clearly there must be a death penalty on
13:53
Speaker 2: the table because there wasn't really any other reason to
13:56
Speaker 2: make a deal at that point.
13:58
Speaker 1: No, there wasn't. There wasn't at all. So Mary's family,
14:03
Speaker 1: as I said, has really not said a lot about Mary,
14:06
Speaker 1: but they did sit down for an interview with Way
14:08
Speaker 1: thirty one TV. And Mary was the youngest of five sisters.
14:12
Speaker 1: She ran her own remodeling business. She was very capable
14:15
Speaker 1: and smart and hard working. And Skuyler, her son, is
14:19
Speaker 1: also interviewed by the TV station, and he told the
14:23
Speaker 1: reporter that what he was sad about was that his
14:27
Speaker 1: mother missed all of his milestones, right graduating high school,
14:33
Speaker 1: getting a car, and he misses his mother terribly, and
14:36
Speaker 1: he says he wants justice for his mother, and as
14:40
Speaker 1: do her sisters. And that's why, as the cases are
14:45
Speaker 1: moving through the justice system, they wanted to finally have
14:48
Speaker 1: a moment to focus not on the killers, which happens
14:51
Speaker 1: a lot, but on the victim. Here, investigators and prosecutors
14:56
Speaker 1: have really been tight lipped, Mike, because there's so much
14:58
Speaker 1: we don't understand about this case that at this point
15:01
Speaker 1: they really should have worked out. But what they believe
15:05
Speaker 1: to be the motive, again and not with great details,
15:11
Speaker 1: is that the three women involved in this case, the
15:15
Speaker 1: victim and the two alleged perpetrators, are somehow connected to
15:18
Speaker 1: this one man who's unnamed, and we don't know the
15:21
Speaker 1: details of the relationships because the other thing is, you know,
15:25
Speaker 1: and this happens all the time. A man or a
15:28
Speaker 1: woman gets jealous because of a perceived rival. They might
15:33
Speaker 1: not even really be a rival, and we've seen that before.
15:36
Speaker 1: I don't know what the case is here, if the
15:41
Speaker 1: daughter is to be believed, If Jesse is to be believed,
15:44
Speaker 1: it appears that her mother, Loretta, may have been the
15:47
Speaker 1: primary aggressor in this alleged plot. And Jesse's cell mates,
15:52
Speaker 1: this is the part that I don't understand, have indicated
15:57
Speaker 1: wrote letters to the judge that see, the daughter was
16:02
Speaker 1: forced into this plan by her mother. Who knows if
16:07
Speaker 1: this is true. But here's the thing, okay, is this
16:11
Speaker 1: I'm I the only one here who's red flag is saying,
16:14
Speaker 1: wait a minute. The people standing up for Jesse, the
16:18
Speaker 1: daughter to say it's really not her fault. Our fellow
16:22
Speaker 1: cellmates that she just met in jail because she's been
16:26
Speaker 1: arrested for murder. I'm just like, help me out here, Mike.
16:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, wouldn't you think you'd want somebody at the
16:35
Speaker 2: time the murders happened that said, Oh, she was reaching
16:38
Speaker 2: out to me saying, I feel so much pressure for
16:40
Speaker 2: my mom or something. Not after I've gotten jail and
16:43
Speaker 2: I'm starting to make deals.
16:46
Speaker 1: I just they really wrote these letters to the judge,
16:49
Speaker 1: and I could just imagine if I were the judge,
16:51
Speaker 1: I'd be like, wait a minute, you're asking me to
16:56
Speaker 1: accept the credibility of the people who were speaking up
17:00
Speaker 1: as character witnesses who are behind.
17:03
Speaker 3: Bars and you just met.
17:06
Speaker 1: And you just met. So back to the details here.
17:11
Speaker 1: According to Sheriff's investigators, authorities believe that Mary was killed
17:15
Speaker 1: around October eighteenth or nineteenth of twenty twenty one, and
17:19
Speaker 1: police say that Jesse and Loretta showed up at Mary's trailer,
17:24
Speaker 1: confronted her. They allegedly had a gun, and that they
17:29
Speaker 1: used the gun allegedly to hit Mary. She was all bloody,
17:34
Speaker 1: and then they kidnap her and then they allegedly take
17:38
Speaker 1: her to Loretta's home, the mother's place. Here's what's interesting.
17:45
Speaker 1: According to investigators, Loretta forces Mary to take a shower
17:50
Speaker 1: because she's all bloody and she doesn't want that. I'm like,
17:54
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, is this the inconvenience of a crime? And
17:59
Speaker 1: I guess.
18:02
Speaker 3: I'm with you.
18:02
Speaker 2: I mean, what's the purpose behind that unless it's part
18:05
Speaker 2: of this staging process that's going on and the fact
18:09
Speaker 2: that they've got some ultimate plan to go somewhere where
18:12
Speaker 2: they're going to be passing the public and they don't
18:14
Speaker 2: want this bloody, beaten woman. Instead, they'd rather have somebody
18:19
Speaker 2: that looks like they're kempt.
18:20
Speaker 1: I don't know, and I guess they thought, oh, well,
18:24
Speaker 1: if she jumps off the cliff, then of course she's
18:28
Speaker 1: going to be hit in the head, because at some
18:30
Speaker 1: point her head will hit something. Detectives say that the
18:32
Speaker 1: pair took Mary to Little River Canyon, it's a national park,
18:37
Speaker 1: and then they pushed her off a cliff. The daughter
18:41
Speaker 1: says Mary pleaded for her life. The Loretta wouldn't listen,
18:46
Speaker 1: very sad. The daughter claims it was the mother who
18:51
Speaker 1: pushed her. Now you might say, why did anybody find her? Well,
18:59
Speaker 1: this park is national park, is something like fifteen thousand
19:04
Speaker 1: square acres. I mean, it's just it's enormous, so it's
19:10
Speaker 1: very hard to find people in places like this. It
19:13
Speaker 1: is described as the Grand Canyon of Alabama. For perspective
19:20
Speaker 1: the plan, according to prosecutor, why are you laughing at me, Mike.
19:25
Speaker 2: Well, I live in a state that has a piece
19:28
Speaker 2: of the Grand Canyon in it. I'm just trying to envision.
19:32
Speaker 1: Yes, it is very hard to envision the Grand Canyon
19:34
Speaker 1: in Alabama, which is mostly flat.
19:37
Speaker 3: But you know it is interesting.
19:38
Speaker 2: I mean, even if I look over my shoulders, you
19:42
Speaker 2: could have a murder site in the bushes, just off
19:47
Speaker 2: of the edge of a dirt road and never discover
19:50
Speaker 2: that darn thing. But then you take it and put
19:53
Speaker 2: someone up on a cliff and throw them down, probably
19:57
Speaker 2: to an area that people don't generally hike a law,
20:00
Speaker 2: then it's really easy. And frankly, they probably could have
20:04
Speaker 2: got away with it for an awfully long time.
20:07
Speaker 1: They did. They got away with it for two years.
20:11
Speaker 2: But doesn't it make you wonder somebody started talking and
20:16
Speaker 2: that caused the ship to sink.
20:19
Speaker 1: So who was it that tipped off police? That's the thing.
20:25
Speaker 1: Who was it and what was the information that they had?
20:28
Speaker 1: We don't know. We don't know the answer to that.
20:31
Speaker 1: When Mary's ex husband reported her missing in December of
20:35
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, he called police, he posted something on Facebook,
20:39
Speaker 1: and when they finally found Mary's residence and police went
20:42
Speaker 1: in to do a check, police say there were obvious
20:47
Speaker 1: signs of a struggle. There was a bloody handprint that
20:51
Speaker 1: apparently belonged to Mary, and so police at that point
20:56
Speaker 1: knew Mary had met with foul play, which sometimes when
21:01
Speaker 1: people disappear or abducted, there are no signs of a struggle,
21:05
Speaker 1: but in this one there was, So that is very troubling.
21:09
Speaker 1: It's an indication that she has been injured and the
21:13
Speaker 1: possibility of loss of life. Then investigators went through her
21:19
Speaker 1: phone records and contacted the people who were in her
21:25
Speaker 1: text messages. Investigators said that at the time the mother
21:31
Speaker 1: daughter duo was already on their radar. Okay, so something
21:36
Speaker 1: in those communications made investigators questioned them and put a
21:44
Speaker 1: pin in it and said, okay, I don't know about
21:46
Speaker 1: these too, but couldn't take it beyond that. Don't you
21:51
Speaker 1: find that interesting?
21:53
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, absolutely, And I guess that's part of the
21:56
Speaker 2: investigative process because I think they probably will be fairly
22:00
Speaker 2: quickly identified the link between the boyfriend, the now missing individual,
22:06
Speaker 2: and the Loretta, and all of a sudden it gives
22:13
Speaker 2: them a target to start throwing some trial balloons out,
22:17
Speaker 2: maybe testing the water, a little, talking to friends, seeing
22:21
Speaker 2: if behaviors have changed, watching the way in which they react.
22:25
Speaker 2: But these cases take such a long time to build,
22:30
Speaker 2: and frankly, a lot of jurisdictions unless they have a body,
22:34
Speaker 2: aren't really ready to move forward. They may have had
22:36
Speaker 2: a criminal case that on a circumstantial basis they could
22:39
Speaker 2: have made made arrests and charged people with homicide before
22:45
Speaker 2: ever finding Mary's body. But in some jurisdictions the prosecutors
22:51
Speaker 2: want that body in hand.
22:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it is very difficult to figure out what
22:57
Speaker 1: happened to a person. If you know, you can suspect
23:00
Speaker 1: a lot of things. But if you don't have enough
23:02
Speaker 1: evidence to bring the charges and then carry that all
23:05
Speaker 1: the way forward to trial, there won't be justice because
23:09
Speaker 1: it won't survive the test of the justice system.
23:12
Speaker 2: So Anna, don't you find it interesting though, that this
23:15
Speaker 2: individual could go weeks, if not months, from the time
23:19
Speaker 2: she disappears from the face of the planet to the
23:23
Speaker 2: time that her ex husband, someone who really doesn't have
23:26
Speaker 2: daily contact with her but says, hey, something's goofy here.
23:30
Speaker 2: Doesn't she have people that she's in daily contact with?
23:33
Speaker 2: If she's running a successful business, aren't there customers who
23:36
Speaker 2: are saying, wait a minute, where are you? Why aren't
23:39
Speaker 2: her bills being paid? Or why isn't she answering texts?
23:42
Speaker 2: And maybe all that will come out in the trial,
23:44
Speaker 2: but those become really intriguing behavioral characteristics to me.
23:49
Speaker 1: Agreed, And we do not have those answers yet, and
23:52
Speaker 1: hopefully they will be revealed as they go forward with
23:57
Speaker 1: Loretta's case, and I don't know how much. I'm sure
24:00
Speaker 1: that they have received a lot of information from Jesse obviously,
24:03
Speaker 1: or they wouldn't have cut a deal. And Jesse leading
24:06
Speaker 1: them to Mary's remains, Jesse kind of describing what happened,
24:11
Speaker 1: and if that lines up with the forensics, if it
24:13
Speaker 1: makes sense, you know, then one can believe, at least
24:17
Speaker 1: to a degree that she's telling the truth because they
24:20
Speaker 1: did find Mary's remains. So we'll see how much of
24:23
Speaker 1: this is made public before Loretta's case, or we may
24:26
Speaker 1: have to wait until it goes to trial. So the
24:31
Speaker 1: tip here is really what changed everything. This tip changed everything.
24:37
Speaker 1: Investigators say that in June of twenty twenty three, they
24:43
Speaker 1: get a tip that opens it all up and changes
24:47
Speaker 1: the direction of this case, not necessarily from where police
24:52
Speaker 1: eyes were trained, but makes it possible for there to
24:56
Speaker 1: be arrests. Here is Nick Brown, the chief investigator for
24:59
Speaker 1: the time Cap County Sheriff's Office, from a news conference
25:03
Speaker 1: explaining that tip. And this is from the reference point
25:08
Speaker 1: of as it's happening, So this is from a few
25:10
Speaker 1: years ago. Is he's revealing the details.
25:13
Speaker 4: Ultimately, a tip came in last Tuesday, and that tip
25:18
Speaker 4: was determined to be very credible after checking into it.
25:24
Speaker 4: A lot of work went in to speaking to people,
25:28
Speaker 4: doing a lot of different search warrants, and ultimately we
25:32
Speaker 4: were able to track down two suspects in the case
25:39
Speaker 4: through some witness information that we received and through a
25:43
Speaker 4: co defended statement, we were able to make to arrest
25:48
Speaker 4: in the case, Loretta Carr and Jesse Kelly.
25:52
Speaker 1: So whatever it is that the tipster said lined up
25:56
Speaker 1: with what authorities had found all and that is when
26:01
Speaker 1: police arrested Loretta and Jesse. What is interesting here is
26:09
Speaker 1: that when Jesse is arrested, Jesse is behind bars already
26:17
Speaker 1: on another charge. And then the local reporters in the
26:25
Speaker 1: area say, when the two of them finally get to
26:28
Speaker 1: to Cab County, authority has made the decision that they
26:32
Speaker 1: were going to house the mother and the daughter separately.
26:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, great move, great move.
26:39
Speaker 2: Obviously you want to do everything you can to start
26:42
Speaker 2: to divide them so that you can conquer. But clearly
26:48
Speaker 2: this is also an opportunity for Jesse to start testing
26:52
Speaker 2: the system, and we see her doing that in a
26:55
Speaker 2: number of ways, don't we.
26:58
Speaker 1: Well, yes, as she starts making friends behind bars, who
27:02
Speaker 1: will be her character witnesses. I don't know, And.
27:07
Speaker 2: Then you know, to go forward and you mentioned this
27:10
Speaker 2: early on, but then't go forward and say, look, I'm
27:13
Speaker 2: just a kid. I can't be held responsible for this,
27:16
Speaker 2: and they say, no, that's not going to fly. And
27:18
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden she's willing to make a
27:20
Speaker 2: deal and say, hey, okay, you cut us a little
27:24
Speaker 2: better deal. You take death pedalty off the table, and
27:27
Speaker 2: I'll show you where the body is. And I'll tell
27:30
Speaker 2: you if I were the investigator, I'd be jumping for
27:33
Speaker 2: joy to take the death pedal off off the table,
27:36
Speaker 2: to get the body.
27:38
Speaker 1: Right right, because she's still going to spend a lot
27:40
Speaker 1: of time behind bars. But you know, when you step
27:44
Speaker 1: back and you look at this, if what's being said
27:47
Speaker 1: here is true, you have to keep in mind that
27:52
Speaker 1: it's Loretta who raised this child, and so with that
27:58
Speaker 1: comes not really good parenting skills, obviously, and not giving
28:04
Speaker 1: Jesse the nurturing and the support necessary to make good
28:09
Speaker 1: decisions when one matures.
28:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, the apple appears not to have fallen far from
28:16
Speaker 2: the tree, to use that old saying, But in the
28:18
Speaker 2: same light, what really needs to come out now is,
28:22
Speaker 2: you know, even at twenty years old. Some people can
28:25
Speaker 2: really have lived a life where they are compelled and
28:28
Speaker 2: driven and under control, and so it'll be interesting to
28:34
Speaker 2: hear that control, or if that control exists. Doesn't change
28:38
Speaker 2: the fact that there still needs to be justice, that
28:40
Speaker 2: there still needs to be accountability, but it might lend
28:44
Speaker 2: some value to the idea that she was throughout her
28:48
Speaker 2: life under the control of her mother. If I were
28:51
Speaker 2: the defense, That's what I'd be pushing.
28:54
Speaker 1: Yes, And that could be a very interesting narrative when
28:57
Speaker 1: Loretta goes on trial because it will paint a greater picture.
29:02
Speaker 1: I don't think we're going to get a lot of
29:04
Speaker 1: sympathy for Jesse here, but it will certainly paint a
29:08
Speaker 1: picture to the jury about what maybe Loretta is capable of. So,
29:15
Speaker 1: Loretta's arrested on June fifth of twenty twenty three, and
29:18
Speaker 1: as we said, Jesse was behind bars at the time
29:22
Speaker 1: of her arrest. She was up in Pennsylvania on another felony.
29:25
Speaker 1: She finally gets extracited, mother and daughter brought back. So
29:30
Speaker 1: back to investigator Nick Brown, this is what he shared
29:36
Speaker 1: about Mary when the arrests were announced, and I was
29:44
Speaker 1: very touched by what he said. Because he's talking about
29:48
Speaker 1: Mary watching this from heaven. Let's play the clip.
29:52
Speaker 4: I know speaking to Mary's family that she will say
29:54
Speaker 4: she was.
29:54
Speaker 3: Washed in the blood.
29:55
Speaker 4: And I don't have a doubt that she's looking down
29:58
Speaker 4: route now thinking finally, you guys did it. You guys
30:01
Speaker 4: found my killers and you recovered me. But the family
30:07
Speaker 4: this is bittersweet.
30:08
Speaker 1: It really is extraordinary that the positive identification of those
30:13
Speaker 1: remains came in on Mary's birthday.
30:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, And whether that was theatrics and that they planned
30:27
Speaker 2: it so that it came out on that day, I mean,
30:30
Speaker 2: you really try in law enforcement when it's possible to
30:33
Speaker 2: use anniversary dates because they're significant and they helped.
30:37
Speaker 3: Carry the story.
30:39
Speaker 2: Or it may have been one of those just predestined blessings.
30:44
Speaker 3: I guess, I don't know.
30:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, really incredible, really incredible. Here on August twenty fifth
30:53
Speaker 1: of this year of twenty twenty five, Jesse pleaded guilty
30:58
Speaker 1: to one kind of murder in Mary's death in exchange
31:00
Speaker 1: for testifying against her mother. Prosecutors then downgraded the murder
31:05
Speaker 1: charge from capital murder to murder, and so she was
31:09
Speaker 1: sentenced to forty years behind bars. Now, the question is
31:17
Speaker 1: now that Jesse has her deal. My question to you,
31:19
Speaker 1: Mike is Jesse doesn't really have to say anything else.
31:23
Speaker 1: She's already been sentenced. They're not going to renig on it.
31:26
Speaker 1: Is it at all possible, at all possible, that Jesse's
31:30
Speaker 1: going to show up as Loretta's daughter and try and
31:35
Speaker 1: save her mother.
31:38
Speaker 2: Boy, that would be wild, wouldn't it, Because everything at
31:42
Speaker 2: this point suggests that she has thrown her mother under
31:45
Speaker 2: the bus in order to save herself and get a
31:49
Speaker 2: reduced sentence. The sentence was beefy, and that's going to
31:56
Speaker 2: play in the favor I think of the prosecution that, look,
31:59
Speaker 2: she she may have got the deals, she didn't get
32:01
Speaker 2: the she wasn't going to be executed, but she's still
32:05
Speaker 2: going to spend the majority of her life in prison,
32:08
Speaker 2: and so that's going to play in the favor of
32:10
Speaker 2: the prosecution.
32:11
Speaker 3: I believe even if she.
32:12
Speaker 2: Were to come back and say, hey, I was forced
32:15
Speaker 2: into all of this, I think the judge is going
32:17
Speaker 2: to rule that dog don't hunt.
32:22
Speaker 1: And the reason I bring this up I do believe
32:25
Speaker 1: it's unlikely. But if Jesse has been kept separate from
32:30
Speaker 1: her mother and then she sees her mother in the courtroom,
32:33
Speaker 1: and then she buckles under pressure and old behaviors. Who knows,
32:40
Speaker 1: who knows?
32:42
Speaker 2: Really interesting point, and you see that happened, especially with
32:45
Speaker 2: young victims, when they see their perpetrator or the person
32:49
Speaker 2: who hurts them, they start to revert back into that
32:52
Speaker 2: subordinate role. But I also think that she's had some
32:57
Speaker 2: time in prison to tough enough. She's building her apparent support
33:02
Speaker 2: system around her. She clearly has said I don't want
33:06
Speaker 2: anything to do with my mother because I'm going to
33:08
Speaker 2: testify against her. I would be surprised, but I think
33:13
Speaker 2: you really give me some hope in wanting to watch
33:16
Speaker 2: this trial just to see what her response is. The
33:20
Speaker 2: day she's brought in to testify, well, she even look
33:23
Speaker 2: at her mother as she testifies, other than the moment
33:26
Speaker 2: she has to point her out and say that's her
33:29
Speaker 2: in the courtroom.
33:31
Speaker 1: Oh, I think mother Loretta will be glaring at her.
33:35
Speaker 1: Oo every time I see those moments in a trial
33:38
Speaker 1: where a child is testifying against their parent, and that
33:43
Speaker 1: look you know that parents scorn that you see, Oh
33:47
Speaker 1: my god, so frightening, so frightening. And we'll see if
33:52
Speaker 1: this goes to trial. My guess is Loretta thinks that
33:56
Speaker 1: she can prove that it wasn't her, and she can
34:00
Speaker 1: maybe turn it around and say, hey, my daughter has
34:04
Speaker 1: already confessed to this, and why did she do that,
34:07
Speaker 1: because she's the one who pushed her, you know.
34:10
Speaker 2: And that's interesting, Anna, because I think if I remember
34:14
Speaker 2: the evidence correctly that they've released publicly, that it that
34:18
Speaker 2: it's Jessica's handprint that has Mary's blood inside of Mary's residence,
34:24
Speaker 2: that when they recover that handprint, that they somehow have
34:27
Speaker 2: forensically determined that it's Jessica's print. I don't know if
34:31
Speaker 2: they've forensically placed Loretta in the crime scene, and so
34:38
Speaker 2: theoretically she could she could go in, I guess and say, hey,
34:41
Speaker 2: I wasn't there, but it wasn't me.
34:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, some other dude.
34:49
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I just think that
34:53
Speaker 1: I think the probability of a conviction is very high
34:56
Speaker 1: here for Loretta if she does go forward to try
35:00
Speaker 1: and I think it's possible that if jesse the daughter,
35:06
Speaker 1: can maintain her strength, that there will be some credibility
35:10
Speaker 1: to her, and I think, as I said a little
35:13
Speaker 1: bit earlier, it will weigh heavily on the jury that
35:16
Speaker 1: she at least did tell police where the remains were
35:21
Speaker 1: and made it possible to move forward with this case
35:23
Speaker 1: and to permit Mary's family to at least bury her
35:31
Speaker 1: and respect her body and remains.
35:34
Speaker 2: I think you're absolutely right, and I think the other
35:36
Speaker 2: key factor here is the state has a death penalty
35:41
Speaker 2: hanging over her head, and so if this goes to trial,
35:46
Speaker 2: I would be surprised. I would be less surprised if
35:50
Speaker 2: the negotiated plea of a life without parole or something
35:53
Speaker 2: like that is brought into play.
35:57
Speaker 1: Well, we expect trial for Loretta to he happened later
36:00
Speaker 1: this year. Unless she cuts the deal, we'll see what happens.
36:04
Speaker 1: We'll be following it. Will Updike, our producer who usually
36:07
Speaker 1: does the comments section, is not here today, so instead
36:13
Speaker 1: of a comment section, which honestly no one can do
36:15
Speaker 1: better than Will, I'm just going to read some of
36:18
Speaker 1: the comments from our last podcast, because, as many of
36:21
Speaker 1: you know, I do try to read and respond to
36:26
Speaker 1: your comments because I really enjoy the conversation that we
36:29
Speaker 1: have and sometimes you'll point out stuff that I have
36:33
Speaker 1: missed in investigating a case, and you just look at
36:38
Speaker 1: things differently, and I'm always impressed with that so I
36:41
Speaker 1: love that we have this wonderfully vocal group on Facebook,
36:46
Speaker 1: excuse me, on YouTube, but on Facebook too. I mean,
36:49
Speaker 1: you guys also comment there, but YouTube is really the
36:52
Speaker 1: form that we have. So I just want to read
36:54
Speaker 1: some of your comments. And this is the case we
37:00
Speaker 1: did last week involved a mother who had a nightmare,
37:04
Speaker 1: a nightmare about her daughter's car being stolen, and that
37:08
Speaker 1: she woke up feeling very uneasy, and then she couldn't
37:11
Speaker 1: contact her daughter and then she received this odd response
37:15
Speaker 1: that didn't sound like her via text, and ultimately that's
37:19
Speaker 1: because her daughter had just been murdered. And so we
37:23
Speaker 1: discussed the spiritual part of this of a mother waking
37:28
Speaker 1: up with anxiety from a nightmare, right, and it's just
37:33
Speaker 1: and as part of the crime the daughter's car, the
37:36
Speaker 1: murder victim, her car was actually driven allegedly by the
37:41
Speaker 1: killer and parked a few miles away. So part of
37:45
Speaker 1: the mother's dream was not wrong, was not wrong. So
37:50
Speaker 1: that's what this comment is about. I wanted to give
37:52
Speaker 1: you the context of that. And this is from Carol
37:56
Speaker 1: Rogers and she writes, the connection that her her mother
38:00
Speaker 1: has with her daughter is amazing, beautiful and so sad
38:04
Speaker 1: at the same time, I hope that they can find
38:06
Speaker 1: her body. My prayers for the family In this case, Mike,
38:11
Speaker 1: the remains have never been found, but her ex boyfriend
38:15
Speaker 1: has been charged with her murder. And what's interesting about
38:20
Speaker 1: this case is the pre trial hearing has a lot
38:23
Speaker 1: of circumstantial evidence, a lot of circumstantial evidence, and the
38:27
Speaker 1: judges trying to decide whether or not this will go
38:30
Speaker 1: forward to trial. So that's why this next comment is
38:34
Speaker 1: going to be interesting. This is from ESK to G
38:39
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence and direct evidence hold the same. Wait, and
38:46
Speaker 1: then someone else gets into the conversation and says, this
38:50
Speaker 1: is really I see You responds yes and yes. Why
38:55
Speaker 1: have we let TV shows and defense attorneys bend this
38:59
Speaker 1: law to direct evidence is powerless without good circumstantial evidence.
39:05
Speaker 1: What do you think, Mike? I like to think that
39:07
Speaker 1: really you need both, You need it all. You need
39:10
Speaker 1: as much evidence as possible.
39:13
Speaker 3: Amen.
39:14
Speaker 2: I mean, here's the deal. There are four traditional forms
39:19
Speaker 2: of evidence. We talk about the physical and the forensic,
39:22
Speaker 2: and eyewitness accounts and confessions. But the secret is when
39:27
Speaker 2: you start talking about circumstantial. Circumstantial is that thing that says, hey,
39:33
Speaker 2: there's powdered sugar on your lips. Chances are that missing
39:37
Speaker 2: powdered sugar donut was consumed by you. It's the thing
39:41
Speaker 2: that says A plus B is really going to equal C.
39:47
Speaker 2: And so what we need to kind of remind ourselves
39:50
Speaker 2: is that any case that's built on a single form
39:53
Speaker 2: of evidence, in my opinion, is a shaky case. If
39:57
Speaker 2: you're only relying on someone's eyewitness account, or you're only
40:01
Speaker 2: relying on the fact that a bullet casing was found
40:04
Speaker 2: at their house, that's really kind of thin ice in
40:08
Speaker 2: my opinion. But if that bullet corroborates with the casing
40:14
Speaker 2: being found at by house and the fact that there
40:17
Speaker 2: was a half eaten powdered sugar don't it and I'm
40:20
Speaker 2: covered with powdered sugar, those are circumstantial, and they say
40:25
Speaker 2: that this is most likely going to be accurate. And
40:28
Speaker 2: I think normal people, especially jurors, can buy off on
40:32
Speaker 2: circumstantial a whole lot faster than they can buy off
40:35
Speaker 2: even on science.
40:36
Speaker 3: In many cases.
40:37
Speaker 1: These a science can be confusing. But you know, I
40:39
Speaker 1: always think, especially now we've seen this in the last decade,
40:43
Speaker 1: digital forensic evidence, it has become amazing, has become amazing
40:49
Speaker 1: and so strong. And now the DNA evidence has changed
40:54
Speaker 1: so significantly, the technology and how strong that's become. And
40:58
Speaker 1: then if you add the circumstantial, which is what I call,
41:01
Speaker 1: I would say with crimes, it's logical, right when you
41:04
Speaker 1: hear the truth, you're like, ah, even if it's a
41:07
Speaker 1: crazy thing that you would never arrive at, when you
41:10
Speaker 1: hear the truth, you know it. I don't know why,
41:12
Speaker 1: but you just do. So it was an interesting discussion,
41:16
Speaker 1: and that's what I mean. When we all get on
41:19
Speaker 1: YouTube and have the discussion, it goes in a bunch
41:21
Speaker 1: of different directions, but it's always about either human relations,
41:26
Speaker 1: the science, and also about justice. So that's why I
41:30
Speaker 1: so enjoy your comments. And then one last comment here.
41:34
Speaker 1: This is from Crazy Cat Lady Stephanie love the handle,
41:42
Speaker 1: Hi Anna, Tracy and team. I love your passion and
41:46
Speaker 1: your compassion. Thank you. I appreciate that. And Tracy is
41:50
Speaker 1: doctor Tracy Tambora, who is a professor of criminal justice
41:55
Speaker 1: in New Haven, Connecticut, and she is a fan favor.
42:00
Speaker 1: Everybody loves doctor Tambora because what Doctor Tambora comes on
42:04
Speaker 1: the podcast, it's literally like you're sitting in school in
42:07
Speaker 1: a good way, in a good way. She explains everything.
42:11
Speaker 1: So she's amazing, and she's back with us now I'm
42:14
Speaker 1: back at school, so we're so happy to have her,
42:17
Speaker 1: just like you, Mike.
42:19
Speaker 3: Oh no, I'll tell you what.
42:21
Speaker 2: I have a blast when I come on, and I
42:22
Speaker 2: just love the opportunity. And you know, I was thinking
42:25
Speaker 2: about that one person who submitted the chat where she
42:29
Speaker 2: talked about what I remember a faith leader calling tender
42:34
Speaker 2: mercies from heaven, that at least she had that connection
42:37
Speaker 2: with her daughter, even if she hasn't been able to
42:40
Speaker 2: locate her body, and we hope that that happens sometime.
42:43
Speaker 2: But what a tender mercy to have that connection right
42:48
Speaker 2: at that critical moment.
42:50
Speaker 3: That they somehow connected.
42:51
Speaker 2: And what a testament to the true crime community, because really,
42:57
Speaker 2: across the board, it is really good people just trying
43:00
Speaker 2: to find out answers, maybe figure out how to minimize
43:03
Speaker 2: their own risk, but most importantly, they're not out to
43:06
Speaker 2: retraumatize people.
43:08
Speaker 3: And I just really think it's neat.
43:10
Speaker 1: So thanks, Yeah, agreed, And that's what I enjoy. I
43:15
Speaker 1: enjoy hearing from all of you, and it also is
43:17
Speaker 1: amazing that and how grateful I am that you all
43:20
Speaker 1: sit there and you spend an hour of your time
43:23
Speaker 1: with us every week, and I am truly grateful for that,
43:26
Speaker 1: because you all are very very busy. And I did
43:29
Speaker 1: mention this last week that we won an award at
43:32
Speaker 1: Crime Con. We won a clue. You were there, I know,
43:36
Speaker 1: and you texted me for best Podcast Episodic Podcast.
43:43
Speaker 2: I kept looking around thinking where I've got a hugger.
43:48
Speaker 2: It was awesome and it was so neat to see
43:50
Speaker 2: it up there and to see your remarks on that
43:53
Speaker 2: big screen as it was being presented.
43:55
Speaker 3: Congratulations, so cool.
43:58
Speaker 1: Thank you. We are very honored for that, very honored
44:00
Speaker 1: because that episode was about a survivor's story and I'm
44:05
Speaker 1: deeply touched, very deeply touched and humbled by it. And
44:09
Speaker 1: I think it's so funny. Mike said something to me
44:12
Speaker 1: before we started recording, and it was about this bird house.
44:16
Speaker 1: If you're a regular with us, you know that Mike
44:19
Speaker 1: King made this bird house for me. And when he
44:22
Speaker 1: was in La a few months ago, I took him
44:25
Speaker 1: out to dinner and he gave me a bird house.
44:29
Speaker 3: I had to somehow pay for my meal.
44:32
Speaker 1: That's right. No free rides here, buddy, that's right. And
44:37
Speaker 1: you said. Someone at Crime Con actually came up to
44:40
Speaker 1: you and asked you something about the bird house.
44:43
Speaker 2: One of the attendees came up and said, I watched Anna,
44:45
Speaker 2: I sen your birdhouse. She's spoken about it. How do
44:48
Speaker 2: I purchase? And I said, they're not for sale.
44:54
Speaker 1: This is what I love about the crime community, right,
44:58
Speaker 1: because in every little moment, there's grace. Right, there's a moment. Yeah,
45:03
Speaker 1: there's a little moment of connection, and I think that
45:06
Speaker 1: that's so lovely and endearing, so lovely.
45:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was fun.
45:12
Speaker 1: All right, Mike? Where can people find you? Follow you?
45:16
Speaker 1: And what are you up to? Do you have any
45:18
Speaker 1: project coming out?
45:20
Speaker 3: Oh? Man, it's been it's been. I've been busy.
45:22
Speaker 2: I just returned from Australia. Was down there shooting a
45:26
Speaker 2: four part documentary on a serial killer case down there.
45:30
Speaker 3: It's going to drop in December, so.
45:32
Speaker 2: We'll we'll announce that when it gets close, and I'm
45:35
Speaker 2: really excited about that. On October sixteenth, Gardens of Evil
45:40
Speaker 2: is going to drop the new podcast and if you
45:44
Speaker 2: just go to Profilingevil dot com you can get a
45:47
Speaker 2: link to that to sign up for it. But we're
45:50
Speaker 2: really excited about it because we're pushing the proceeds toward
45:54
Speaker 2: advocacy kinds of roles. As you know, we use the
45:57
Speaker 2: proceeds from Deceived to provide funds for the new children's
46:01
Speaker 2: Advocacy center that opened up a few months ago. And Anna,
46:06
Speaker 2: just four days ago, my wife and I announced that
46:10
Speaker 2: the Weaber State Scholarship Luncheon, a brand new King Family
46:15
Speaker 2: endowment that we're using money from what we've been able
46:19
Speaker 2: to get through profiling evil, and we've created the Scholarship
46:23
Speaker 2: for Criminal Justice. So it's been really a lot of fun.
46:27
Speaker 2: And in two days I'm heading to Budapest to do
46:30
Speaker 2: a couple of kind of fun things, and then I'm
46:33
Speaker 2: hoping that after the Chiefs Conference in October that life
46:37
Speaker 2: settles down.
46:39
Speaker 1: Wow, I'm sorry, And you did say you were retired.
46:44
Speaker 2: And I have thankfully retired because I don't know how
46:47
Speaker 2: I have time to do anything else but goof off.
46:50
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's great, well well deserved. You work
46:54
Speaker 1: very very hard, and I know that you care very deeply.
46:58
Speaker 1: You don't just say it, you do it. And now
47:01
Speaker 1: you are providing the funds to help survivors, So you
47:04
Speaker 1: put your money where your mouth is.
47:07
Speaker 2: It's been an honor to be a bit a part
47:08
Speaker 2: of all of this, and I'll tell you without friends
47:11
Speaker 2: like you, we just wouldn't be possible.
47:13
Speaker 3: So thank you.
47:14
Speaker 1: It's always a pleasure to have you on Mike. You
47:17
Speaker 1: can find us on social media with one simple handle
47:21
Speaker 1: my True Crime News quite simple. I know it's hard
47:24
Speaker 1: to believe we actually came up with something so simple.
47:27
Speaker 1: Mine is Ana g News Anna with one end. You're
47:29
Speaker 1: also funny when you post on YouTube Anna with one en,
47:35
Speaker 1: it's like it's become part of my name, Anna one
47:38
Speaker 1: En Garcia. You can get this podcast all our podcasts
47:43
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Please subscribe to our YouTube
47:46
Speaker 1: channel because as you can see, there's a lot of
47:49
Speaker 1: cool conversations that take place on YouTube, so it's really
47:52
Speaker 1: really fun. And don't forget we have a newsletter you
47:56
Speaker 1: can subscribe at true Crimenews dot com. So until next week,
47:59
Speaker 1: this is true Crime News podcast. I'm your host, Santa Garcia,
48:02
Speaker 1: and as we now say, crime never stops. I'm not
48:05
Speaker 1: any week.
48:12
Speaker 2: M