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Rethinking Culture: How Mindsets Drive Results w/ Ray Kleeman · Something Extra

• 0:01
  Ray Kleeman: Now if you if you just kinda step back and say, well, kinda
• 0:05
  Ray Kleeman: what else connects across all those, for me, it always
• 0:09
  Ray Kleeman: comes back to talent, culture, and leadership.
• 0:12
  Ray Kleeman: And if you can get those three right, you you can you
• 0:16
  Ray Kleeman: can really do some good things.
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  Ray Kleeman: It is that very simple model.
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  Ray Kleeman: And and that then focuses me and my team on, like, okay.
• 0:24
  Ray Kleeman: Well, then what's our responsibility to ensure we've got the right talent, the right
• 0:28
  Ray Kleeman: culture, and the right leadership in place?
• 0:30
  Ray Kleeman: And if we do that, then I'm confident we'll be able to execute the
• 0:33
  Ray Kleeman: strategy and we'll realize the value and then everything can kinda sustain itself.
• 0:41
  Lisa Nichols: It takes something a little more to lead with impact.
• 0:44
  Lisa Nichols: I'm Lisa Nichols, author of Something Extra, and this podcast
• 0:48
  Lisa Nichols: was inspired by our daughter, Ali, whose additional chromosome has shaped
• 0:53
  Lisa Nichols: how I see people in leadership.
• 0:55
  Lisa Nichols: Each episode features conversations with inspiring leaders from around the world
• 1:00
  Lisa Nichols: about what truly defines how they lead and serve others.
• 1:04
  Lisa Nichols: If you enjoyed today's conversation, please consider leaving a five star
• 1:08
  Lisa Nichols: review.
• 1:09
  Lisa Nichols: It helps more people discover the show.
• 1:12
  Lisa Nichols: And if you'd like to go deeper, my book, Something Extra, is available on
• 1:15
  Lisa Nichols: Amazon and through other major book retailers.
• 1:20
  Lisa Nichols: Today's guest brings a unique combination of organizational psychology expertise
• 1:24
  Lisa Nichols: and real world corporate leadership to the table.
• 1:26
  Lisa Nichols: As chief human resources officer at Reinsurance
• 1:30
  Lisa Nichols: Group of America, Ray Kleeman has spent his career transforming workplace cultures, empowering teams,
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  Lisa Nichols: and driving human centered business
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  Lisa Nichols: strategy.
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  Lisa Nichols: Well, Ray K leeman, welcome to the Something Against Your podcast.
• 1:42
  Lisa Nichols: I am so I'm so excited.
• 1:45
  Lisa Nichols: I'm I'm so excited.
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  Lisa Nichols: I just I love like, anytime you and I have gotten to spend time
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  Lisa Nichols: together, I told you, you're just you're a wealth of wisdom, and,
• 1:53
  Lisa Nichols: and I just know that it our conversation today is gonna help our listeners,
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  Lisa Nichols: and that's the goal on their own leadership journey.
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  Lisa Nichols: So, well, you and I, we we serve on an
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  Lisa Nichols: amazing board together.
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  Lisa Nichols: We got a couple things in common.
• 2:08
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
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  Ray Kleeman: We do.
• 2:09
  Ray Kleeman: We do.
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  Ray Kleeman: The yeah.
• 2:11
  Ray Kleeman: I I guess I've served on the,
• 2:14
  Ray Kleeman: Gateway Down Syndrome Association board, well, a bit longer than you, although
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  Ray Kleeman: I think you've been affiliated with it, for a while.
• 2:23
  Ray Kleeman: You know, I got involved in that, through a buddy of mine
• 2:27
  Ray Kleeman: because my younger sister you know all this.
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  Ray Kleeman: My younger sister has downs and lives with my parents back in,
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  Ray Kleeman: Cincinnati, and my parents are getting older, and we have to kinda have a
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  Ray Kleeman: a game plan for the future, and I had no idea how to approach
• 2:40
  Ray Kleeman: approach that topic with my parents.
• 2:42
  Ray Kleeman: And so I reached out to the Dunton Association in Saint Louis to help
• 2:46
  Ray Kleeman: me, and then that led eventually to, working on their board.
• 2:49
  Ray Kleeman: And I've done that for four I think, over forty
• 2:53
  Ray Kleeman: probably five years now.
• 2:56
  Ray Kleeman: And I love it.
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  Ray Kleeman: It's just good people with a fantastic cause.
• 3:00
  Ray Kleeman: And, you know, when you get around folks with downs, I think,
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  Ray Kleeman: you know, there's something about,
• 3:08
  Ray Kleeman: them that brings everything back to what really matters really quickly.
• 3:13
  Ray Kleeman: And for my sister, what I've learned from her is, you know, it always
• 3:16
  Ray Kleeman: comes back to who you love, how strong your relationships are, and how
• 3:20
  Ray Kleeman: much time you're spending with one another.
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  Ray Kleeman: Everything else doesn't matter to her at all.
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  Ray Kleeman: I mean, you can you can talk about money or this.
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  Ray Kleeman: Nope.
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  Ray Kleeman: She's like, when are you coming back home to visit?
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  Ray Kleeman: Are you gonna see all your nieces and nephews?
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  Ray Kleeman: And, you know, she's, she she is the anchor of our family
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  Ray Kleeman: and, kinda pulls us all together along those ways because she brings it back
• 3:42
  Ray Kleeman: to what's most important.
• 3:44
  Lisa Nichols: To what's really most important?
• 3:45
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
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  Lisa Nichols: Totally.
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  Ray Kleeman: She does it all the time.
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  Ray Kleeman: So that's why that's why I serve, and I'm sure, you know, you Mhmm.
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  Ray Kleeman: You do the same, and you probably see the same in your daughter.
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  Ray Kleeman: So
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  Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
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  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
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  Lisa Nichols: I always say Ally has been my master class.
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  Lisa Nichols: Okay.
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  Lisa Nichols: You know?
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  Lisa Nichols: In fact, I spoke for the National Down Syndrome
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  Lisa Nichols: Congress, the conference, two weeks ago
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  Ray Kleeman: Oh, you did?
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  Lisa Nichols: Okay.
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  Lisa Nichols: In Orlando.
• 4:08
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
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  Lisa Nichols: And I said, you know, I when Allie was born, I thought my primary
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  Lisa Nichols: responsibility as her mom was to teach her about the complexities of life.
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  Lisa Nichols: What I didn't realize, she's taught me about the complexities of people and leadership
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  Lisa Nichols: and everything else.
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  Lisa Nichols: You know?
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  Lisa Nichols: So I just she's been a master class in that.
• 4:24
  Lisa Nichols: But, yeah.
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  Lisa Nichols: And then you and I get to do something really fun this year.
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  Lisa Nichols: We are cochairing the fiftieth anniversary
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  Lisa Nichols: of the Gateway Down Syndrome Association's gala on November the
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  Lisa Nichols: fourteenth.
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  Lisa Nichols: Fifty years, Ray.
• 4:41
  Ray Kleeman: Fifty years of helping people.
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  Ray Kleeman: You know, the the thing that impresses me is I've gotten to
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  Ray Kleeman: know that association more and kind of the impact that they have is where
• 4:50
  Ray Kleeman: it started from, is a, you know, a bunch of parents getting together
• 4:54
  Ray Kleeman: trying to figure out, hey.
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  Ray Kleeman: How do we, how do we help one another?
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  Ray Kleeman: And that's now evolved over the fifty years into a,
• 5:02
  Ray Kleeman: association that does that, not just for our
• 5:08
  Ray Kleeman: syndrome associations across the country.
• 5:10
  Lisa Nichols: Across the country.
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  Lisa Nichols: Kinda
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  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
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  Ray Kleeman: Kinda is one of the front runners,
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  Ray Kleeman: in the way in which that the Gateway Down Syndrome Association
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  Ray Kleeman: runs and the kind of impact it has on the community.
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  Ray Kleeman: It's a bit of a model for some of the other communities across the
• 5:23
  Ray Kleeman: country, which is kinda nice to see.
• 5:25
  Ray Kleeman: In the beginnings, we're all, you know, from a bunch of, parents getting together
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  Ray Kleeman: and trying to...
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  Lisa Nichols: Concerned parents. Caring parents.
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  Ray Kleeman: How do we do this?
• 5:32
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
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  Ray Kleeman: So and the I mean, the legacy is is, is is pretty neat
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  Ray Kleeman: to,
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  Ray Kleeman: you know, be a small part of it.
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  Ray Kleeman: And, yeah, we wanna celebrate that legacy over fifty years.
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  Ray Kleeman: And, in doing so, kind of expose, you know, maybe to others
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  Ray Kleeman: that, you know, haven't seen the kind of impact that the association has.
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  Ray Kleeman: Let's expose it to them.
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  Ray Kleeman: Because I think once people see it, then it's like, well, man, if you
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  Ray Kleeman: need something, I'll I'm I'll certainly be able to help.
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  Ray Kleeman: And that's part of it.
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  Ray Kleeman: Right?
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  Ray Kleeman: So it is a celebration of that legacy and a celebration of what's
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  Ray Kleeman: to come in the future,
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  Ray Kleeman: but it is also a an opportunity for folks to express
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  Ray Kleeman: their support for the cause.
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  Ray Kleeman: And, you know, we'll use it as a way to to generate that support,
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  Ray Kleeman: in various ways.
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  Ray Kleeman: So, yeah, there's a lot of work in front of us, which you've been
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  Ray Kleeman: carrying the bigger load on.
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  Ray Kleeman: But it'll come together, and we'll have a great
• 6:26
  Lisa Nichols: It will.
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  Ray Kleeman: A great evening in November.
• 6:29
  Lisa Nichols: It's gonna be so good.
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  Lisa Nichols: Well, Ray, to your point, you know, and I'd always heard that about the
• 6:34
  Lisa Nichols: Saint Louis Chapter.
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  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
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  Lisa Nichols: But to your point, I cannot tell you how many people at the
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  Lisa Nichols: national conference two weeks ago Yeah.
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  Lisa Nichols: Would say, oh my goodness.
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  Lisa Nichols: Saint Louis is doing it right.
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  Lisa Nichols: Erin Soolman is so good.
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  Lisa Nichols: I look to her as my mentor.
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  Lisa Nichols: I mean, I heard this over and over and over.
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  Lisa Nichols: And so what I also love is our GDSA, we've
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  Lisa Nichols: got a big, hairy, audacious vision
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  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
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  Lisa Nichols: Right, for more advocacy Yeah.
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  Lisa Nichols: You know, health care, you know, so with our partnership
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  Lisa Nichols: with WashU.
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  Lisa Nichols: So Yeah.
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  Lisa Nichols: I'm just saying if you're a listener out there and if this is
• 7:13
  Lisa Nichols: tugging at your heart to get involved, please call Ray or myself.
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  Lisa Nichols: We will plug you in.
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  Ray Kleeman: That we will do.
• 7:21
  Lisa Nichols: We will do that.
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  Lisa Nichols: So, but let's talk a little bit because I know you did not grow
• 7:26
  Lisa Nichols: up in Saint Louis.
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  Lisa Nichols: You grew up in Cincinnati.
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  Ray Kleeman: Right.
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  Lisa Nichols: We already talked about Sarah and just how amazing
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  Lisa Nichols: she she was in in at shaping you.
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  Lisa Nichols: But I also know that your mom and dad
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  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
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  Lisa Nichols: Were very, instrumental in shaping who you are as
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  Lisa Nichols: were my parents.
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  Lisa Nichols: But talk a little bit about growing up, and I know you've got other
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  Lisa Nichols: siblings.
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  Lisa Nichols: And
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  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 7:48
  Ray Kleeman: Sure.
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  Ray Kleeman: Well, first, thanks for asking.
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  Ray Kleeman: I I was so fortunate, for my upbringing,
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  Ray Kleeman: not because, you know, we had a lot.
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  Ray Kleeman: We certainly didn't.
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  Ray Kleeman: I mean, my parents came from pretty humble beginnings.
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  Ray Kleeman: My mom was a nurse, and she was kind of the stable
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  Ray Kleeman: earner for the family.
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  Ray Kleeman: My dad was an electrician.
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  Ray Kleeman: By the way, they're both, you know, still alive back in Cincinnati and with
• 8:15
  Ray Kleeman: Sarah, and they're in their eighties now.
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  Ray Kleeman: And my dad always worked through,
• 8:21
  Ray Kleeman: the union, so he was kinda on again, off again.
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  Ray Kleeman: You know?
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  Ray Kleeman: My my childhood, I just remember my dad's work was very
• 8:29
  Ray Kleeman: sporadic,
• 8:31
  Ray Kleeman: waiting for the next job to come around.
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  Ray Kleeman: But my mom was always the stable one.
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  Ray Kleeman: And so I'm the middle of five.
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  Ray Kleeman: Now the I always say the original four, my older brother,
• 8:40
  Ray Kleeman: my older sister, me, and my younger brother.
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  Ray Kleeman: And then there's an eighteen year gap until Sarah was born.
• 8:46
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
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  Ray Kleeman: And my, you know, my siblings, my,
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  Ray Kleeman: the the original four were all two years apart.
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  Ray Kleeman: It was like clockwork.
• 8:54
  Ray Kleeman: Beep beep beep beep.
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  Ray Kleeman: My parents had a plan, and they were executing the plan.
• 8:58
  Lisa Nichols: And they executed the plan.
• 9:00
  Ray Kleeman: My mom would say, nope.
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  Ray Kleeman: God had a plan, and he was executing the plan.
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  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
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  Ray Kleeman: My mom is is, is very Catholic.
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  Ray Kleeman: And, then an eighteen year gap, and then Sarah was born.
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  Ray Kleeman: Growing up, I think,
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  Ray Kleeman: there there are a few things that, you know, we all knew to be
• 9:19
  Ray Kleeman: true.
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  Ray Kleeman: The first is we knew that, you know, my parents would do
• 9:24
  Ray Kleeman: as much as they could do for us, they would do.
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  Ray Kleeman: And it would be without question, they would just do it.
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  Ray Kleeman: But with that came a, big degree of accountability
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  Ray Kleeman: and expectation, which was an even trade if you ask me.
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  Ray Kleeman: It's like, hey.
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  Ray Kleeman: We're gonna do our part, and
• 9:38
  Lisa Nichols: you're gonna
• 9:39
  Ray Kleeman: do your part.
• 9:40
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
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  Ray Kleeman: And they were very clear all the way through as as long as I
• 9:44
  Ray Kleeman: can remember.
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  Ray Kleeman: It and education was really important.
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  Ray Kleeman: You know, my dad never went to college.
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  Ray Kleeman: My mom did an associate's degree to become a nurse, and I think my
• 9:53
  Ray Kleeman: dad always regretted that.
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  Ray Kleeman: So part of the deal was, look.
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  Ray Kleeman: We will get you guys through the best schools through high school that we
• 10:00
  Ray Kleeman: can afford to put you through.
• 10:01
  Ray Kleeman: And they put us through private schools all the way through.
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  Ray Kleeman: But after that, you're going to college.
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  Ray Kleeman: You're paying for it.
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  Ray Kleeman: And you're going to graduate school.
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  Ray Kleeman: You're paying for it.
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  Ray Kleeman: We don't care what you study.
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  Ray Kleeman: We don't care whether you even use it after you're done studying.
• 10:15
  Ray Kleeman: But those are the rules.
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  Ray Kleeman: That's what you're gonna do.
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  Ray Kleeman: And so you grow.
• 10:18
  Ray Kleeman: You're like, oh, okay.
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  Ray Kleeman: Those were
• 10:20
  Lisa Nichols: the rules.
• 10:21
  Lisa Nichols: That's the expectation.
• 10:21
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 10:22
  Lisa Nichols: Great.
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  Ray Kleeman: But you knew with that expectation and the accountability that they placed on you
• 10:26
  Ray Kleeman: that they would do their part and they would provide as much support as
• 10:30
  Ray Kleeman: they as they could.
• 10:31
  Ray Kleeman: So, you know, it was,
• 10:34
  Ray Kleeman: you know, it was a it was a a relatively simple, kinda upbringing,
• 10:38
  Ray Kleeman: and, it was clear.
• 10:40
  Ray Kleeman: And, you know, we never we never,
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  Ray Kleeman: I never felt like I wanted for anything.
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  Ray Kleeman: I mean, I always felt like I had everything I needed to go do
• 10:49
  Ray Kleeman: what I wanted to do.
• 10:50
  Ray Kleeman: And I always felt like I had, the the the
• 10:54
  Ray Kleeman: safety net, however you wanna define that.
• 10:56
  Ray Kleeman: It certainly wasn't a financial safety net.
• 10:58
  Ray Kleeman: Like, that that wasn't there.
• 10:59
  Ray Kleeman: Everybody knew it.
• 11:00
  Ray Kleeman: But you knew you had the safety net.
• 11:02
  Ray Kleeman: And you knew, yeah, you could take chances and go do what you wanna
• 11:06
  Ray Kleeman: do, and you'd have the support, to do it.
• 11:09
  Ray Kleeman: So, I think a lot of those, you know, those experience
• 11:13
  Ray Kleeman: have shaped, my kind of point of view on,
• 11:18
  Ray Kleeman: yeah, just more broadly kind of the work environment and then
• 11:22
  Ray Kleeman: the role of individuals in that environment and then the role of leaders in
• 11:25
  Ray Kleeman: that environment.
• 11:27
  Ray Kleeman: And in a lot of ways, Lisa, I mean, why I chose to study
• 11:30
  Ray Kleeman: what I chose to study, organizational psychology
• 11:34
  Ray Kleeman: was rooted a lot in, you know, kinda watching my my
• 11:38
  Ray Kleeman: my dad primarily because I never thought that my dad
• 11:42
  Ray Kleeman: enjoyed what he did.
• 11:45
  Ray Kleeman: Now that was I've I've talked to him about this.
• 11:47
  Ray Kleeman: That was kinda my interpretation.
• 11:49
  Lisa Nichols: Idea.
• 11:50
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 11:50
  Ray Kleeman: It was like, oh, that was fine.
• 11:51
  Ray Kleeman: It was a means to an end.
• 11:52
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 11:52
  Ray Kleeman: You know, it was what it was.
• 11:53
  Ray Kleeman: He's like, if I wanted to do something different, I'd have done something different.
• 11:56
  Ray Kleeman: But I always experienced it.
• 11:59
  Ray Kleeman: His
• 12:01
  Ray Kleeman: occupation is it was like, yeah.
• 12:04
  Ray Kleeman: He didn't really, you know, maybe get a lot out.
• 12:06
  Ray Kleeman: I always thought, shouldn't shouldn't shouldn't you get more out of it?
• 12:09
  Ray Kleeman: You put so much into it.
• 12:10
  Ray Kleeman: Shouldn't you get more out of it?
• 12:12
  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
• 12:13
  Ray Kleeman: But my dad you know, I I think some of the best advice I've
• 12:16
  Ray Kleeman: ever gotten has come from my dad.
• 12:18
  Ray Kleeman: And my dad is probably one of the smartest people that I
• 12:22
  Ray Kleeman: know,
• 12:24
  Ray Kleeman: on almost everything.
• 12:26
  Ray Kleeman: And it is just pure sound
• 12:30
  Ray Kleeman: common sense, good judgment.
• 12:34
  Ray Kleeman: And,
• 12:35
  Ray Kleeman: yeah, just he was really impactful.
• 12:37
  Ray Kleeman: He's one of these guys that he could fix anything.
• 12:40
  Ray Kleeman: Like, it didn't matter what it was.
• 12:42
  Ray Kleeman: He just take it apart, and he would fix it.
• 12:45
  Ray Kleeman: And I like to think that I picked up some of that from him.
• 12:48
  Ray Kleeman: My other siblings, not so much.
• 12:50
  Ray Kleeman: But
• 12:50
  Lisa Nichols: Not so much.
• 12:51
  Ray Kleeman: Picked up a little bit of that, from him.
• 12:54
  Ray Kleeman: And my mom my mom was just just a a caregiver through and
• 12:58
  Ray Kleeman: through.
• 12:59
  Ray Kleeman: And you can see, like, why would she choose nursing?
• 13:01
  Ray Kleeman: It's just another extension of a way to give care to others.
• 13:05
  Ray Kleeman: Yes.
• 13:05
  Ray Kleeman: It's hugely nurturing.
• 13:08
  Ray Kleeman: And yeah.
• 13:09
  Ray Kleeman: So you always knew you had that, growing up.
• 13:11
  Ray Kleeman: And I think it, you know, certainly has made a pretty profound impact on
• 13:15
  Ray Kleeman: me.
• 13:16
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 13:16
  Lisa Nichols: That's so awesome.
• 13:17
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 13:18
  Lisa Nichols: Well, you and I were both blessed.
• 13:21
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 13:21
  Lisa Nichols: Because I know that's not everyone's experience, but I say all the time,
• 13:25
  Lisa Nichols: my goodness.
• 13:26
  Lisa Nichols: I, you know, if I listed all the ways that my parents impacted
• 13:30
  Lisa Nichols: me positively, I mean, the list would be very, very long.
• 13:35
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 13:35
  Lisa Nichols: So very grateful for that.
• 13:37
  Lisa Nichols: Well, you know, you already answered this question, but, you know, you've spent
• 13:42
  Lisa Nichols: your whole career helping organizations get healthier.
• 13:45
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 13:45
  Lisa Nichols: And you went on to your point.
• 13:47
  Lisa Nichols: You went on to get a PhD.
• 13:49
  Lisa Nichols: You even have a PhD, I think, in organizational psychology.
• 13:52
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 13:53
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 13:53
  Ray Kleeman: That's what brought me to Saint Louis to
• 13:55
  Lisa Nichols: to Yes.
• 13:56
  Lisa Nichols: Yep.
• 13:57
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 13:57
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 13:59
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 13:59
  Lisa Nichols: You've worked for some really iconic companies here like
• 14:03
  Lisa Nichols: Monsanto.
• 14:03
  Lisa Nichols: I think you were at Monsanto for a long time.
• 14:06
  Lisa Nichols: Time.
• 14:06
  Lisa Nichols: Right, Ray?
• 14:07
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 14:07
  Ray Kleeman: Under different Eighteen years or something.
• 14:09
  Ray Kleeman: Such a yeah.
• 14:10
  Ray Kleeman: You are correct.
• 14:11
  Ray Kleeman: Monsanto was such a a cool company,
• 14:15
  Ray Kleeman: and so formative for me.
• 14:17
  Ray Kleeman: I mean, I ended up started to work with them as an intern when
• 14:20
  Ray Kleeman: I was in graduate school.
• 14:22
  Ray Kleeman: And they were so supportive.
• 14:23
  Ray Kleeman: They were like, well, why not they wanted to hire me, and I'm like,
• 14:26
  Ray Kleeman: no.
• 14:26
  Ray Kleeman: I I promised my dad that I would finish getting my degree.
• 14:30
  Ray Kleeman: There's a story about that, which I can tell you.
• 14:33
  Ray Kleeman: And so I said, no.
• 14:34
  Ray Kleeman: I I can't go full time.
• 14:35
  Ray Kleeman: They're like, well, work part time and let us talk with the university, and
• 14:38
  Ray Kleeman: maybe they can give you credit for that and we'll offset some of the
• 14:41
  Ray Kleeman: cost of your tuition.
• 14:42
  Ray Kleeman: I was like, oh, what was that?
• 14:43
  Ray Kleeman: Say that again.
• 14:44
  Ray Kleeman: You'll offset
• 14:44
  Lisa Nichols: that.
• 14:45
  Lisa Nichols: Especially since you were paying for
• 14:46
  Ray Kleeman: it.
• 14:46
  Ray Kleeman: Exactly.
• 14:47
  Ray Kleeman: And so they did.
• 14:49
  Ray Kleeman: They Mhmm.
• 14:50
  Ray Kleeman: They allowed me to continue to work when I was, in grad school, and
• 14:54
  Ray Kleeman: they, they supported me from tuition.
• 14:57
  Ray Kleeman: They paid me to to work with them.
• 14:59
  Ray Kleeman: So, I mean, just a phenomenal company.
• 15:01
  Ray Kleeman: And I know Monsanto can sometimes get a,
• 15:07
  Ray Kleeman: you know, a bad rap because of the controversy surrounding the the businesses
• 15:11
  Ray Kleeman: that they were in.
• 15:12
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 15:13
  Ray Kleeman: But, ma'am, my experience was just quality people, great leaders
• 15:17
  Ray Kleeman: all the way through, a fantastic culture and environment.
• 15:21
  Ray Kleeman: And, frankly, a lot of what I try to do today, I'm trying to
• 15:24
  Ray Kleeman: emulate what, I experienced, when I worked at
• 15:28
  Lisa Nichols: Monsanto.
• 15:29
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 15:30
  Ray Kleeman: Now that, you know, Monsanto, when I first started to work with them,
• 15:34
  Ray Kleeman: they still had the chemical company.
• 15:35
  Ray Kleeman: They were just starting to spin that out into what became solution
• 15:39
  Ray Kleeman: and solution ended up being sold.
• 15:42
  Ray Kleeman: They had a pharmaceutical,
• 15:44
  Ray Kleeman: a set of pharmaceutical companies.
• 15:45
  Ray Kleeman: They had a set of nutrition companies, and then they had the agricultural business
• 15:48
  Ray Kleeman: that everybody Mhmm.
• 15:50
  Ray Kleeman: Pretty much thinks of when they think of
• 15:52
  Lisa Nichols: of Magsino
• 15:52
  Ray Kleeman: today.
• 15:53
  Ray Kleeman: But,
• 15:55
  Ray Kleeman: yeah, I ended up working for the pharmaceutical business that finally
• 15:59
  Ray Kleeman: finally, they said, hey.
• 16:00
  Ray Kleeman: You you need to kinda go full time.
• 16:02
  Ray Kleeman: Like, we're we're our patients isn't.
• 16:05
  Ray Kleeman: I'm like, oh, okay.
• 16:06
  Ray Kleeman: I didn't I didn't have everything finished ex well, I had everything finished except
• 16:10
  Ray Kleeman: my dissertation.
• 16:11
  Ray Kleeman: And I excuse me.
• 16:12
  Ray Kleeman: I told my dad that I was gonna go ahead and and work for
• 16:15
  Ray Kleeman: them, and he was like, I don't know about that.
• 16:17
  Ray Kleeman: I I don't think you'll he's like, trust me.
• 16:19
  Ray Kleeman: You're gonna start to work, and then you're gonna get married.
• 16:22
  Ray Kleeman: And then kids are gonna come, and you will never finish that.
• 16:25
  Ray Kleeman: You'll regret that.
• 16:26
  Ray Kleeman: Pass that up.
• 16:27
  Ray Kleeman: Just finish your design.
• 16:28
  Ray Kleeman: Like, no.
• 16:29
  Ray Kleeman: Then I'm gonna go ahead and take the job and go.
• 16:31
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 16:31
  Ray Kleeman: And I did, and then that took me into the pharmaceutical, industry for a
• 16:35
  Ray Kleeman: while.
• 16:36
  Ray Kleeman: And then back to Monsanto, again, and then I stayed, like, another
• 16:40
  Ray Kleeman: fourteen years.
• 16:42
  Ray Kleeman: And so then I went to Centene and now at at RGA.
• 16:46
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 16:46
  Ray Kleeman: So yeah.
• 16:47
  Ray Kleeman: You know, I always say be lucky and good,
• 16:51
  Ray Kleeman: and luck really does matter.
• 16:53
  Ray Kleeman: And I feel I feel that I have been lucky along the way, and
• 16:56
  Ray Kleeman: I've been able to, work with some great people and learn from a lot
• 17:00
  Ray Kleeman: of others and work with some great companies.
• 17:03
  Ray Kleeman: And I'm trying now to kinda grab all of the
• 17:07
  Ray Kleeman: things that I've learned and,
• 17:10
  Ray Kleeman: utilize that, in RGA.
• 17:12
  Ray Kleeman: And, honestly, my plan is to round that out in RGA, and then then
• 17:16
  Ray Kleeman: I'll I'll shut it down.
• 17:17
  Ray Kleeman: Then I'll go do something else.
• 17:18
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 17:19
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 17:19
  Ray Kleeman: And so I I look at RGA as kind of the capstone in a
• 17:23
  Ray Kleeman: a thirty year career, and,
• 17:25
  Ray Kleeman: so far so good.
• 17:27
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 17:28
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 17:28
  Lisa Nichols: Well, you are the chief human resource officer
• 17:31
  Ray Kleeman: I am.
• 17:32
  Lisa Nichols: For RGA.
• 17:33
  Ray Kleeman: And you probably don't know this because it's recent, but it's one of the
• 17:36
  Ray Kleeman: reasons why I've been so absent with our other commitments.
• 17:40
  Ray Kleeman: My other commitment, along with you is, they've also asked me to be
• 17:44
  Ray Kleeman: the chief strategy officer.
• 17:46
  Ray Kleeman: Wow.
• 17:47
  Ray Kleeman: Because we had to move our chief strategy officer into our chief financial
• 17:51
  Ray Kleeman: officer role, and that became available.
• 17:54
  Lisa Nichols: Okay.
• 17:54
  Ray Kleeman: And they asked me to step into that.
• 17:56
  Ray Kleeman: I said I would do it on an interim basis.
• 17:58
  Ray Kleeman: The reason I said interim is because I want I
• 18:02
  Ray Kleeman: wanna take some time, and I want our CEO to take some time to
• 18:05
  Ray Kleeman: really think about what we think is the right setup long term.
• 18:07
  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
• 18:08
  Ray Kleeman: And I can provide that optionality to him.
• 18:11
  Ray Kleeman: But it is a bit overwhelming.
• 18:14
  Ray Kleeman: But it is,
• 18:15
  Lisa Nichols: it's fun to hats.
• 18:16
  Lisa Nichols: Two very, very big hats.
• 18:19
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 18:20
  Lisa Nichols: That's incredible.
• 18:21
  Lisa Nichols: Wow.
• 18:22
  Lisa Nichols: Well, let me ask you this.
• 18:24
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, you've been we've already talked.
• 18:25
  Lisa Nichols: You've been at some really iconic iconic, companies.
• 18:30
  Lisa Nichols: I love every one of the companies that you've been at.
• 18:33
  Lisa Nichols: But what is there a common thread that has connected all
• 18:37
  Lisa Nichols: of those?
• 18:37
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, what have you learned that's the common thread?
• 18:42
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 18:44
  Ray Kleeman: I think
• 18:46
  Ray Kleeman: well, there's certainly a common thread on what has interested me in all
• 18:50
  Ray Kleeman: of those companies.
• 18:52
  Ray Kleeman: And that is generally every one of those companies that I've worked for had
• 18:56
  Ray Kleeman: a very meaningful purpose.
• 18:57
  Ray Kleeman: And I know all companies, like, can shape a purpose, that
• 19:02
  Ray Kleeman: resonates and matters.
• 19:03
  Ray Kleeman: But what I kinda realized when I looked at, you know, look at all
• 19:06
  Ray Kleeman: those companies is the purpose of those companies really was
• 19:10
  Ray Kleeman: in service of others in some form or fashion, and that always kinda
• 19:14
  Ray Kleeman: meant quite a lot to me.
• 19:16
  Ray Kleeman: I needed to identify with that aspect of the purpose of each of those
• 19:20
  Ray Kleeman: companies, and that's kinda what I think about.
• 19:23
  Ray Kleeman: Now if you if you if you just kinda step back and say, well,
• 19:27
  Ray Kleeman: kinda what else connects
• 19:29
  Ray Kleeman: across all of those.
• 19:32
  Ray Kleeman: For me, it always comes back to talent, culture, and leadership.
• 19:36
  Ray Kleeman: And if you can get those three right, you you can you
• 19:40
  Ray Kleeman: can really do some good things.
• 19:42
  Ray Kleeman: And the reason I say that, Lisa, is, you know, I've what the
• 19:46
  Ray Kleeman: way I think about things, again, I always try to simplify things.
• 19:49
  Ray Kleeman: But, you know, what are all companies trying to do?
• 19:52
  Ray Kleeman: They're they're trying to take strategy and translate that
• 19:57
  Ray Kleeman: into some value creation that they deliver to somebody.
• 20:01
  Ray Kleeman: And if it's for profit, they are delivering value for which they will be
• 20:04
  Ray Kleeman: paid.
• 20:05
  Ray Kleeman: Right?
• 20:05
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 20:05
  Ray Kleeman: Every every organ, that's all you know.
• 20:07
  Ray Kleeman: What's our strategy?
• 20:08
  Ray Kleeman: Set strategy is a set of choices, put you on a field of play
• 20:11
  Ray Kleeman: where you're gonna win.
• 20:12
  Ray Kleeman: You're gonna make a difference.
• 20:13
  Ray Kleeman: Right?
• 20:13
  Ray Kleeman: Even if it's a nonprofit, we can think about the Down Syndrome Association.
• 20:18
  Ray Kleeman: They have a strategy.
• 20:19
  Ray Kleeman: They have a set of choices that they think if they execute on those,
• 20:22
  Ray Kleeman: they'll deliver value in the community.
• 20:25
  Ray Kleeman: Same for RGA, same for your business, etcetera.
• 20:27
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 20:27
  Ray Kleeman: You're trying to translate a set of choices into value creation.
• 20:32
  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
• 20:33
  Ray Kleeman: That's that.
• 20:34
  Ray Kleeman: So then you say, okay.
• 20:35
  Ray Kleeman: Well, what's it take to get from
• 20:39
  Ray Kleeman: strategy to delivery of value.
• 20:43
  Ray Kleeman: I I ask executives this question all the time at work, and they, you
• 20:46
  Ray Kleeman: know, they look at me like, well, this is like, what?
• 20:49
  Ray Kleeman: And, like, this is a really simple question.
• 20:51
  Ray Kleeman: It's like, what's it take to get from strategy to value delivery?
• 20:54
  Ray Kleeman: And, eventually, they'll come around and they go, well, you have to execute the
• 20:58
  Ray Kleeman: strategy.
• 20:58
  Ray Kleeman: And you go, yeah.
• 20:59
  Ray Kleeman: Execution.
• 21:00
  Ray Kleeman: That's it.
• 21:01
  Ray Kleeman: And because strategy without execution, it's just words on a
• 21:05
  Ray Kleeman: page.
• 21:05
  Ray Kleeman: Anybody can have that.
• 21:07
  Lisa Nichols: That's right.
• 21:08
  Ray Kleeman: Execution without strategy, okay, it might be aimless
• 21:12
  Ray Kleeman: activity.
• 21:13
  Ray Kleeman: The key is those two things have to be
• 21:16
  Lisa Nichols: Have to be aligned.
• 21:17
  Lisa Nichols: Choices.
• 21:18
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 21:18
  Ray Kleeman: And what you are executing will deliver the value.
• 21:22
  Ray Kleeman: Right?
• 21:22
  Ray Kleeman: So then I step back and I go, okay.
• 21:24
  Ray Kleeman: What's it take then to execute?
• 21:27
  Ray Kleeman: And, again, when I ask this question of of senior leaders that kinda look
• 21:31
  Ray Kleeman: at me like trick question, I'm like, it's really not.
• 21:33
  Ray Kleeman: It's like Yeah.
• 21:34
  Ray Kleeman: What does what does execution require?
• 21:37
  Ray Kleeman: Finally, they'll say, well, you gotta have people to yes.
• 21:41
  Ray Kleeman: People.
• 21:41
  Lisa Nichols: You gotta have the
• 21:42
  Ray Kleeman: right skill set, right capability, etcetera.
• 21:44
  Ray Kleeman: If you if you don't have that, you're not gonna be able to execute.
• 21:46
  Ray Kleeman: Doesn't matter how great your strategy is.
• 21:48
  Ray Kleeman: So you gotta have talent.
• 21:50
  Ray Kleeman: And I said, keep going.
• 21:51
  Ray Kleeman: What else do you need?
• 21:52
  Ray Kleeman: And they kinda lose it a little bit thereafter.
• 21:55
  Ray Kleeman: But, eventually, they'll come around and they'll say, well, you gotta have a a
• 21:58
  Ray Kleeman: work environment that you go, yep.
• 22:00
  Ray Kleeman: That's culture.
• 22:01
  Ray Kleeman: Culture is the collective mindset.
• 22:03
  Ray Kleeman: So the way people think that guide their behavior.
• 22:06
  Ray Kleeman: If you've got the right talent and the right culture, then the combination of
• 22:09
  Ray Kleeman: those two things mean your execution is probably gonna be pretty good.
• 22:13
  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
• 22:14
  Ray Kleeman: But then I and I said there's there's a third, and this is probably
• 22:18
  Ray Kleeman: the most important.
• 22:19
  Ray Kleeman: What else is required?
• 22:21
  Ray Kleeman: And they they hardly ever get this one.
• 22:23
  Ray Kleeman: And it's mostly senior leaders because they're not thinking about themselves, which is a
• 22:27
  Ray Kleeman: bit of a clue.
• 22:29
  Ray Kleeman: But eventually, I go leadership.
• 22:32
  Ray Kleeman: You're gonna have the best talent and you're gonna have the best culture, but
• 22:35
  Ray Kleeman: without leadership, it it will unravel.
• 22:38
  Ray Kleeman: And and then I say, well, why?
• 22:40
  Ray Kleeman: Why would leadership in my mind be the most important?
• 22:44
  Ray Kleeman: And to me, it comes down to really kind of three things.
• 22:48
  Ray Kleeman: They role model and shape the culture.
• 22:50
  Ray Kleeman: So without leaders shaping the culture, role modeling it, then
• 22:54
  Ray Kleeman: the you take the culture for granted and it it can unravel.
• 22:58
  Ray Kleeman: So it's a really important role that a leader plays.
• 23:02
  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
• 23:02
  Ray Kleeman: So that's one.
• 23:03
  Ray Kleeman: The second is they coach and develop that talent
• 23:07
  Ray Kleeman: to to reach its potential.
• 23:10
  Ray Kleeman: Without that, you you may not get as much out of the talent.
• 23:13
  Ray Kleeman: Right?
• 23:14
  Ray Kleeman: So now all of a sudden, the first two responsibilities are directly related to
• 23:17
  Ray Kleeman: the first two things you need in order to execute.
• 23:20
  Ray Kleeman: And then the third that I think is is important that sometimes leaders miss
• 23:24
  Ray Kleeman: is you have to inspire and create energy, and then that sustains your
• 23:28
  Ray Kleeman: ability to to continue to execute.
• 23:32
  Ray Kleeman: So your question prompted me to think about that around, well,
• 23:36
  Ray Kleeman: what kinda ties all of those experiences together for me?
• 23:39
  Ray Kleeman: It is that very simple model.
• 23:42
  Ray Kleeman: And and that then focuses me and my team on, like, okay.
• 23:46
  Ray Kleeman: Well, then what's our responsibility to ensure we've got the right talent, the right
• 23:49
  Ray Kleeman: culture, and the right leadership in place?
• 23:51
  Ray Kleeman: And if we do that, then I'm confident we'll be able to execute the
• 23:55
  Ray Kleeman: strategy and we'll realize the value and then everything can kinda sustain itself.
• 24:00
  Ray Kleeman: When I look at experiences where
• 24:03
  Ray Kleeman: it it hasn't translated, strategy hasn't translated into value creation,
• 24:08
  Ray Kleeman: I can always tie it back to we either didn't have the right talent,
• 24:11
  Ray Kleeman: we didn't have the right culture, and, normally, it's we didn't have the leadership
• 24:15
  Ray Kleeman: capability required to do it.
• 24:17
  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
• 24:18
  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
• 24:18
  Ray Kleeman: And so that has always kinda tied, those experiences together
• 24:22
  Ray Kleeman: for me.
• 24:23
  Lisa Nichols: That's beautiful.
• 24:24
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 24:24
  Lisa Nichols: There's a
• 24:25
  Ray Kleeman: missing comp you know, there's a missing component there.
• 24:27
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 24:28
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 24:28
  Lisa Nichols: You know when that does not happen.
• 24:30
  Lisa Nichols: Well, you know what?
• 24:31
  Lisa Nichols: I was reading,
• 24:34
  Lisa Nichols: in fact, you you wrote for HR executive dot com
• 24:38
  Lisa Nichols: as what culture why culture should be managed like a core business
• 24:42
  Lisa Nichols: function.
• 24:42
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 24:43
  Lisa Nichols: And I love you know, you've already defined culture, but you say
• 24:47
  Lisa Nichols: culture is the collective thinking that creates a state of mind and action
• 24:52
  Lisa Nichols: that produce results in an organization.
• 24:55
  Lisa Nichols: And so, you know, I I do think that state of mind
• 24:59
  Lisa Nichols: is so important too.
• 25:01
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 25:02
  Lisa Nichols: I mean and how do you, like, you know, fundamentally,
• 25:07
  Lisa Nichols: you know, what steps do you take to make sure that everybody's got the
• 25:11
  Lisa Nichols: right mindset?
• 25:12
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 25:13
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 25:14
  Ray Kleeman: Let me tell maybe a brief story as to how we, have tried to
• 25:17
  Ray Kleeman: do it in RGA and why it, it it matters so much.
• 25:23
  Ray Kleeman: Margie RGA is known to be be a very successful company over a long
• 25:26
  Ray Kleeman: period of time.
• 25:27
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 25:27
  Ray Kleeman: But when we change CEOs, the CEO wanted to put
• 25:31
  Ray Kleeman: in place a bit of a growth agenda.
• 25:34
  Ray Kleeman: And and it's like, okay.
• 25:36
  Ray Kleeman: Most CEOs wanna drive growth.
• 25:38
  Ray Kleeman: And I would ask him we we would generally look at things,
• 25:42
  Ray Kleeman: I would always say, like, let's examine aspects of of the
• 25:46
  Ray Kleeman: company.
• 25:46
  Ray Kleeman: And like all things, capital, collateral, talent, culture,
• 25:50
  Ray Kleeman: you name it, we were looking at is it a rate limiter or is
• 25:54
  Ray Kleeman: it or an accelerant to the growth agenda that we wanna drive?
• 25:57
  Ray Kleeman: Where is it today?
• 25:58
  Ray Kleeman: And can we flip it to be an accelerant, or will it always be
• 26:01
  Ray Kleeman: a rate limiter?
• 26:02
  Ray Kleeman: And then we know what we need to manage.
• 26:04
  Ray Kleeman: So, yeah, we would examine, capital and access to capital and what
• 26:09
  Ray Kleeman: okay.
• 26:09
  Ray Kleeman: Fine.
• 26:10
  Ray Kleeman: When I got to culture,
• 26:12
  Ray Kleeman: he would say, oh, no.
• 26:14
  Ray Kleeman: That culture's fine.
• 26:16
  Ray Kleeman: That's an accelerant for sure.
• 26:17
  Ray Kleeman: And I went, I'm not so sure.
• 26:19
  Ray Kleeman: I said, in large part, it is.
• 26:21
  Ray Kleeman: But there are aspects of our culture that don't align with the
• 26:25
  Ray Kleeman: growth agenda.
• 26:26
  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
• 26:27
  Ray Kleeman: And when we kind of examined that further, then we started to realize
• 26:31
  Ray Kleeman: and we did an exercise, a very simple exercise with our our our top
• 26:35
  Ray Kleeman: leaders in the comp top forty leaders.
• 26:37
  Ray Kleeman: We just said, look, put a line down the middle of the page and
• 26:40
  Ray Kleeman: put a plus column and a negative column.
• 26:41
  Ray Kleeman: On the plus side, however you wanna define culture, tell me aspects
• 26:45
  Ray Kleeman: of RGA's culture that's aligned with how the strategy needs to be
• 26:50
  Ray Kleeman: executed.
• 26:51
  Ray Kleeman: And on the negative column, write down aspects of RGA's culture that's misaligned
• 26:55
  Ray Kleeman: with how the strategy needs to be executed.
• 26:57
  Ray Kleeman: In those words, I'm emphasizing for a reason.
• 27:00
  Ray Kleeman: Aligned and misaligned, it takes the judgment out of it.
• 27:02
  Ray Kleeman: Right?
• 27:03
  Ray Kleeman: It's not good or bad, right or wrong.
• 27:04
  Ray Kleeman: It just is.
• 27:05
  Ray Kleeman: Tell me whether it's aligned with how we need to execute the strategy or
• 27:08
  Ray Kleeman: misaligned.
• 27:09
  Ray Kleeman: So you remove the judgment.
• 27:10
  Ray Kleeman: The moment you remove the judgment, now people can engage in that dialogue
• 27:14
  Ray Kleeman: a bit.
• 27:15
  Ray Kleeman: Right?
• 27:16
  Ray Kleeman: When you listen to what they wrote down on the what's aligned, they
• 27:20
  Ray Kleeman: would say, oh, we're client centric.
• 27:22
  Ray Kleeman: We're innovative.
• 27:24
  Ray Kleeman: We're collaborative.
• 27:25
  Ray Kleeman: Like, yeah.
• 27:26
  Ray Kleeman: Those those are all aspects of our culture.
• 27:28
  Ray Kleeman: The the states of mind, the way we think about things.
• 27:31
  Ray Kleeman: We value the client in solving problems for the client.
• 27:34
  Ray Kleeman: We value innovation.
• 27:35
  Ray Kleeman: Right?
• 27:35
  Ray Kleeman: So, you know, a lot of times people will describe culture as the the
• 27:40
  Ray Kleeman: values and beliefs, etcetera, in a company, and that's all true.
• 27:43
  Ray Kleeman: I like I like to describe it as a state of mind that because
• 27:47
  Ray Kleeman: then I'm responsible for my state of mind, and I need to
• 27:51
  Ray Kleeman: make sure my state of mind is aligned with how the strategy needs to
• 27:53
  Ray Kleeman: get.
• 27:54
  Ray Kleeman: It just drives accountability a little bit further.
• 27:56
  Ray Kleeman: Anyway, when we asked what's on the the negative column
• 28:00
  Lisa Nichols: The other side.
• 28:01
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 28:01
  Ray Kleeman: Well, then you started to hear things like, we're slow to make decisions.
• 28:05
  Ray Kleeman: We don't we don't like to we like to make consensus decisions.
• 28:09
  Ray Kleeman: We don't like change.
• 28:11
  Ray Kleeman: We tend to think about our own section of the company versus the
• 28:15
  Ray Kleeman: enterprise.
• 28:15
  Lisa Nichols: The greater.
• 28:16
  Ray Kleeman: And so you go, okay.
• 28:18
  Ray Kleeman: Well, if we don't change that, can we execute the strategy the way we
• 28:22
  Ray Kleeman: need to?
• 28:22
  Ray Kleeman: And they go, no.
• 28:23
  Ray Kleeman: Not really.
• 28:25
  Ray Kleeman: Okay.
• 28:26
  Ray Kleeman: How do we now start to to, lay out a plan
• 28:30
  Ray Kleeman: to change the way people think about those things?
• 28:33
  Ray Kleeman: And we ended up calling it our winning mindset, and there were four tenants
• 28:37
  Ray Kleeman: to it.
• 28:38
  Ray Kleeman: Enterprise first thinking, perfect is the enemy of good.
• 28:40
  Ray Kleeman: Like, just move things forward without trying to be perfect on everything.
• 28:44
  Ray Kleeman: A lot of actuaries, they always try to dial the thing into, you
• 28:48
  Ray Kleeman: know, perfection.
• 28:50
  Ray Kleeman: Seek the truth.
• 28:51
  Ray Kleeman: In other words, speak your mind.
• 28:52
  Ray Kleeman: That was another one.
• 28:53
  Ray Kleeman: They said we we don't like conflict.
• 28:55
  Ray Kleeman: We we avoid conflict.
• 28:57
  Ray Kleeman: Okay.
• 28:57
  Ray Kleeman: Speak your mind, debate things, say what you need to say, give people feedback,
• 29:01
  Ray Kleeman: all that kind of stuff.
• 29:02
  Ray Kleeman: And we described that as our winning mindset,
• 29:05
  Ray Kleeman: and then, explained why that's so important to how we
• 29:09
  Ray Kleeman: need to execute the strategy and, the role that the leader
• 29:13
  Ray Kleeman: plays in being able to role model those things.
• 29:15
  Ray Kleeman: Because we always say, look, leaders get what you role model, tolerate,
• 29:20
  Ray Kleeman: and reward.
• 29:21
  Ray Kleeman: So if you examine your your team or your part of the organization and
• 29:24
  Ray Kleeman: you're noticing something that's a little off, the first place you should look is
• 29:28
  Ray Kleeman: the mirror.
• 29:29
  Ray Kleeman: Because what what exists, whatever that reality is, it's because of what
• 29:33
  Ray Kleeman: you as the leader are role modeling, tolerating, or rewarding.
• 29:38
  Ray Kleeman: And so examine that.
• 29:39
  Ray Kleeman: And if it needs to be something different, then it's your job as a
• 29:41
  Ray Kleeman: leader to make sure you start to move it into something different by what
• 29:44
  Ray Kleeman: you do.
• 29:45
  Ray Kleeman: So we the the
• 29:49
  Ray Kleeman: the reason that I wanted to define,
• 29:52
  Ray Kleeman: and this comes from
• 29:55
  Ray Kleeman: couple of guys that I know, one that I went to graduate school with
• 29:58
  Ray Kleeman: who's done a lot of work, in culture.
• 30:01
  Ray Kleeman: The reason we wanted to define culture as the collective mindsets or
• 30:05
  Ray Kleeman: the ways of thinking is because it does then make it tangible.
• 30:09
  Ray Kleeman: The problem I saw with culture is is so is so nebulous.
• 30:13
  Ray Kleeman: It's like, oh, culture's important .
• 30:15
  Ray Kleeman: Well, what the heck is it?
• 30:16
  Ray Kleeman: Oh, it's values.
• 30:17
  Ray Kleeman: And it's like, I don't you mean the things on a poster over there?
• 30:19
  Ray Kleeman: Like, that's not right.
• 30:21
  Ray Kleeman: No.
• 30:21
  Ray Kleeman: It's what you're experiencing every day.
• 30:23
  Ray Kleeman: It's the behavior you're experiencing every day, and that is driven by the way
• 30:26
  Ray Kleeman: people think.
• 30:27
  Ray Kleeman: And so if you can describe culture as the way people think, now you
• 30:30
  Ray Kleeman: have something that's more tangible that now they can go do something about.
• 30:34
  Ray Kleeman: And you can tell them I want you to think about things differently.
• 30:38
  Lisa Nichols: Differently.
• 30:39
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 30:39
  Ray Kleeman: The moment you think about things differently, then behavior will follow.
• 30:42
  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
• 30:42
  Ray Kleeman: That's the old cognitive behavioral therapy.
• 30:44
  Ray Kleeman: Right?
• 30:45
  Ray Kleeman: It's like, if you if you wanna lose weight, you know, I can
• 30:49
  Ray Kleeman: I can say I wanna lose weight, and I can buy a bunch of
• 30:52
  Ray Kleeman: equipment, and I'm gonna go exercise it?
• 30:53
  Ray Kleeman: But then I don't do anything.
• 30:55
  Ray Kleeman: I keep doing the exact same.
• 30:57
  Ray Kleeman: Why?
• 30:57
  Ray Kleeman: Because, you know, you have to say, well well, how are you actually thinking
• 31:01
  Ray Kleeman: about that?
• 31:02
  Ray Kleeman: Right?
• 31:02
  Ray Kleeman: Until you change your the way you're thinking, your behavior isn't gonna follow.
• 31:07
  Ray Kleeman: And so we take the same approach with culture.
• 31:10
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 31:11
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 31:11
  Lisa Nichols: I'm so glad because I was gonna ask you about your winning mindset.
• 31:16
  Lisa Nichols: So I'm glad that you that you broke that down for everybody.
• 31:21
  Lisa Nichols: Gosh.
• 31:21
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 31:22
  Lisa Nichols: Like I said, you're there's so much more to you.
• 31:25
  Lisa Nichols: It's gonna be hard to get to everything, but we do need to take
• 31:27
  Lisa Nichols: a really quick break.
• 31:28
  Lisa Nichols: We'll come right back with Ray K leeman on the Something Extra podcast.
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• 32:01
  Lisa Nichols: Welcome back, everybody, to the Something Extra podcast with my friend, Ray Kleeman.
• 32:05
  Lisa Nichols: And this has been so good, Ray.
• 32:07
  Lisa Nichols: And I loved that you talked about,
• 32:11
  Lisa Nichols: you know, having everybody do that t- account.
• 32:14
  Lisa Nichols: You've got aligned, misaligned.
• 32:16
  Lisa Nichols: You know, if you if you had to improve a company's culture
• 32:20
  Lisa Nichols: in ninety days, you know, if if somebody's out there listening and go, you
• 32:24
  Lisa Nichols: know, I think, you know, really, this is resonating with me, and I don't
• 32:28
  Lisa Nichols: think our culture is what it needs to be, What would you tell them?
• 32:31
  Lisa Nichols: What would be the first thing that they that they should do?
• 32:34
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 32:35
  Ray Kleeman: Well, first, don't hire a consultant who's gonna sell you on,
• 32:39
  Ray Kleeman: a bunch of data collection to tell you what you already know and raise
• 32:44
  Ray Kleeman: your anxiety and then sell you another piece of work that it's a multiyear
• 32:48
  Ray Kleeman: effort to change your culture.
• 32:49
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 32:49
  Ray Kleeman: Because the reality is you can change culture as fast as you
• 32:54
  Ray Kleeman: can change the way someone thinks.
• 32:56
  Ray Kleeman: And I always like to say that that happens a conversation at a time
• 33:00
  Ray Kleeman: and an interaction at a time.
• 33:03
  Ray Kleeman: The the as I was saying before, the challenge with culture is that it
• 33:07
  Ray Kleeman: can be too nebulous, and everybody has their own definition.
• 33:11
  Ray Kleeman: So you what I would say in if you only got ninety days,
• 33:15
  Ray Kleeman: first, anchor around an operational definition of what you mean
• 33:20
  Ray Kleeman: by culture.
• 33:21
  Ray Kleeman: You may or may not buy the definition that I've given, which is the
• 33:24
  Ray Kleeman: collective mindsets, the way people think that drive behavior and that leads to results.
• 33:29
  Ray Kleeman: That's what I think is the right definition of culture.
• 33:32
  Ray Kleeman: You you you know, there's plenty of them out there.
• 33:34
  Ray Kleeman: You can pick and choose what you want.
• 33:36
  Ray Kleeman: But first, w hat I've what I've seen not work is folks
• 33:40
  Ray Kleeman: go to consultants and they spend a bunch of money and then they never
• 33:42
  Ray Kleeman: move anything forward.
• 33:44
  Ray Kleeman: And the reason they're not able to move it forward is they don't know
• 33:47
  Ray Kleeman: what it is they're trying to affect.
• 33:49
  Ray Kleeman: You have to have an operational definition so that you can actually then
• 33:54
  Ray Kleeman: measure whether you're having an effect or not.
• 33:56
  Ray Kleeman: So I can sit here and and and say, oh, well, what we measure
• 34:00
  Ray Kleeman: is our culture of care.
• 34:01
  Ray Kleeman: That's what all the things that were aligned,
• 34:04
  Ray Kleeman: and our winning mindset.
• 34:05
  Ray Kleeman: Those were the things that were misaligned.
• 34:07
  Ray Kleeman: And I can measure whether we're making progress or not on those things, and
• 34:10
  Ray Kleeman: I know right away whether we are.
• 34:13
  Ray Kleeman: But it it's anchored in I have an operational definition.
• 34:16
  Ray Kleeman: Once I have an operational definition, I do a bit of a diagnosis.
• 34:20
  Ray Kleeman: It doesn't have to be a laborious, diagnosis.
• 34:24
  Ray Kleeman: You can.
• 34:25
  Ray Kleeman: You don't need to.
• 34:26
  Ray Kleeman: That that tea exercise I described, that was a thirty minute exercise.
• 34:30
  Ray Kleeman: Perfect.
• 34:30
  Ray Kleeman: And in thirty minutes, the top forty people in the company were clear around
• 34:34
  Ray Kleeman: what was aligned about our culture that we wanted to keep and amplify and
• 34:37
  Ray Kleeman: what was misaligned that we needed to course correct.
• 34:40
  Ray Kleeman: The moment you got that, now it's like, okay.
• 34:43
  Ray Kleeman: How do we then wanna course correct that?
• 34:45
  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
• 34:45
  Ray Kleeman: And then you start giving the leaders the tool because the only way it's
• 34:48
  Ray Kleeman: actually gonna get course corrected, it goes back to that that that,
• 34:53
  Ray Kleeman: principled belief that I have, which is how do you get from strategy to
• 34:57
  Ray Kleeman: to value creation?
• 34:58
  Ray Kleeman: Execution.
• 34:59
  Ray Kleeman: You execute through talent, culture, and leadership.
• 35:01
  Ray Kleeman: The most important is leadership.
• 35:03
  Ray Kleeman: Why?
• 35:03
  Ray Kleeman: They do three things.
• 35:05
  Ray Kleeman: They shape and role model the culture.
• 35:07
  Ray Kleeman: Ta da.
• 35:08
  Ray Kleeman: If you wanna Yes.
• 35:09
  Ray Kleeman: Affect change in culture, it come it's a leadership game.
• 35:13
  Ray Kleeman: And you have to anchor then that responsibility with leaders.
• 35:16
  Ray Kleeman: They have to see why they are so important.
• 35:18
  Ray Kleeman: Right?
• 35:19
  Ray Kleeman: So so it's have an operational definition, do a quick diagnosis,
• 35:24
  Ray Kleeman: connect culture change to the responsibility of the leader.
• 35:28
  Ray Kleeman: You get what you role model, tolerate, and reward.
• 35:31
  Ray Kleeman: You wanna change something, it's on you.
• 35:33
  Ray Kleeman: It starts with you.
• 35:35
  Ray Kleeman: And then take the pressure out of the system.
• 35:38
  Ray Kleeman: I always say, you're never gonna bat a thousand.
• 35:40
  Ray Kleeman: You're not gonna be perfect all the time.
• 35:43
  Ray Kleeman: Nobody does.
• 35:45
  Ray Kleeman: Incremental improvement over a long period of time results in something
• 35:49
  Ray Kleeman: completely different than where you are today.
• 35:51
  Lisa Nichols: That's right.
• 35:52
  Ray Kleeman: So you have an opportunity, a conversation at a time, and an interaction at
• 35:56
  Ray Kleeman: a time to role model something different,
• 35:59
  Ray Kleeman: to reward something different, and to stop tolerating that which you don't wanna
• 36:03
  Ray Kleeman: see anymore.
• 36:05
  Ray Kleeman: So if I think in ninety, that's all I would do.
• 36:08
  Ray Kleeman: And I think you would make a ton of progress just by doing that
• 36:12
  Ray Kleeman: and focus it on the, you know, the top leaders in the company because
• 36:15
  Ray Kleeman: everybody's gonna queue off of, well, what are they role modeling?
• 36:19
  Ray Kleeman: What are they tolerating?
• 36:20
  Ray Kleeman: What are they rewarding?
• 36:21
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 36:22
  Ray Kleeman: That must be what matters most.
• 36:24
  Ray Kleeman: I'll just keep doing that.
• 36:26
  Ray Kleeman: So that hopefully, that gives you a bit of a, a
• 36:29
  Lisa Nichols: So good.
• 36:29
  Ray Kleeman: A path.
• 36:30
  Lisa Nichols: So good.
• 36:30
  Lisa Nichols: Don't go hire a consultant.
• 36:32
  Lisa Nichols: Just listen to this podcast.
• 36:35
  Lisa Nichols: Take Ray's advice.
• 36:37
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 36:37
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 36:38
  Lisa Nichols: I love I love that quote of yours, though.
• 36:41
  Lisa Nichols: That's a Ray Klemenism.
• 36:43
  Lisa Nichols: Leaders get what they role model, tolerate, and reward.
• 36:46
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 36:46
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 36:49
  Lisa Nichols: Well, okay.
• 36:50
  Lisa Nichols: So let me ask you this.
• 36:51
  Lisa Nichols: Do you have you seen, like, common blind spots
• 36:55
  Lisa Nichols: with executives?
• 36:56
  Lisa Nichols: What are some of the common blind spots that you've seen, Ray, over the
• 36:59
  Lisa Nichols: years?
• 37:02
  Ray Kleeman: I think
• 37:05
  Ray Kleeman: yeah.
• 37:05
  Ray Kleeman: If I had to pick one,
• 37:10
  Ray Kleeman: it's lack of humility
• 37:13
  Ray Kleeman: is the blind spot.
• 37:14
  Ray Kleeman: And,
• 37:16
  Ray Kleeman: you know, when you
• 37:19
  Ray Kleeman: you asked me in, in advance of our conversation
• 37:23
  Ray Kleeman: here, like, what is that something extra?
• 37:25
  Ray Kleeman: For me, it is humility.
• 37:27
  Ray Kleeman: And the reason that that is my answer is because it tends
• 37:31
  Ray Kleeman: to be a blind spot.
• 37:34
  Ray Kleeman: And, you know, again, it's that kind of service orientation,
• 37:40
  Ray Kleeman: that,
• 37:41
  Ray Kleeman: you know, I think from our earlier discussion, you can probably sense
• 37:45
  Ray Kleeman: where it comes from.
• 37:46
  Ray Kleeman: But, you know, I remember driving down Wild Horse Creek Road.
• 37:51
  Ray Kleeman: You know, Wild Horse Creek Road?
• 37:52
  Ray Kleeman: You must drive is
• 37:52
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 37:53
  Lisa Nichols: We we lived off of Wild Horse.
• 37:54
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 37:55
  Ray Kleeman: So did we for years.
• 37:56
  Ray Kleeman: Raised the kids
• 37:56
  Lisa Nichols: up there.
• 37:57
  Ray Kleeman: And there's a church.
• 37:58
  Ray Kleeman: I can't remember the name of the church, but it's kinda up on a
• 38:01
  Ray Kleeman: hill, and they've got a little sign out front, and they'll always, like on
• 38:05
  Ray Kleeman: a weekly basis, they would change a little a little, you know, statement on
• 38:08
  Ray Kleeman: that sign.
• 38:09
  Ray Kleeman: Yes.
• 38:10
  Ray Kleeman: And this years ago, but I drove past it, and I've never forgot forgotten
• 38:13
  Ray Kleeman: it.
• 38:14
  Ray Kleeman: But it says humility is not thinking less about yourself.
• 38:19
  Ray Kleeman: It's thinking of yourself less, meaning you're there to serve other
• 38:23
  Ray Kleeman: people.
• 38:24
  Lisa Nichols: That's right.
• 38:25
  Lisa Nichols: That's right.
• 38:26
  Ray Kleeman: I think that tends to be a blind spot.
• 38:27
  Ray Kleeman: And how it shows up,
• 38:30
  Ray Kleeman: for leaders, if they if they've if they've got that as a blind spot,
• 38:33
  Ray Kleeman: they think they think they have to have all the answers.
• 38:36
  Ray Kleeman: No.
• 38:37
  Ray Kleeman: Be humble.
• 38:38
  Ray Kleeman: You're not gonna have all the answers.
• 38:39
  Ray Kleeman: Goodness gracious.
• 38:40
  Ray Kleeman: The thing is you gotta create the answers.
• 38:41
  Lisa Nichols: You may think you do, but you're not the right answers.
• 38:44
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 38:45
  Ray Kleeman: Exactly.
• 38:46
  Ray Kleeman: Right?
• 38:46
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 38:47
  Ray Kleeman: You know, they they think they have all the right answers.
• 38:50
  Ray Kleeman: They struggle acknowledging when they've made a mistake.
• 38:53
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 38:54
  Ray Kleeman: But just acknowledge it and learn from it and move on.
• 38:56
  Ray Kleeman: That's that's role modeling.
• 38:58
  Ray Kleeman: Like, you see what I mean?
• 39:00
  Ray Kleeman: They they,
• 39:02
  Ray Kleeman: you know, they think they have to do everything.
• 39:04
  Ray Kleeman: Only they can do it as good as they can do it.
• 39:06
  Ray Kleeman: Right?
• 39:06
  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
• 39:06
  Ray Kleeman: So you can kind of, like, look at at
• 39:11
  Ray Kleeman: and I'm I'm sure your your audience I mean, if you just think about
• 39:14
  Ray Kleeman: some of the the not so great leaders that you've interacted with over the
• 39:18
  Ray Kleeman: course of your experience,
• 39:21
  Ray Kleeman: they probably lacked a little humility.
• 39:23
  Ray Kleeman: And and now when you not to get all psychological on you, but when
• 39:26
  Ray Kleeman: you start to peel that back, why does someone,
• 39:31
  Ray Kleeman: act,
• 39:32
  Ray Kleeman: maybe overly confident or that
• 39:34
  Lisa Nichols: With hubris?
• 39:35
  Lisa Nichols: Because they're insecure.
• 39:36
  Ray Kleeman: Because they're insecure.
• 39:37
  Lisa Nichols: They're really insecure.
• 39:38
  Ray Kleeman: That fundamentally, that is it.
• 39:41
  Ray Kleeman: And that so it's that that blind spot of, you know,
• 39:46
  Ray Kleeman: not getting comfortable with yourself, who you are,
• 39:50
  Ray Kleeman: you know, confident and comfortable in in yourself, but you
• 39:54
  Ray Kleeman: don't have to overstate that.
• 39:57
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 39:57
  Ray Kleeman: And then that should show up as humility.
• 40:00
  Ray Kleeman: And once humility is there, now you're creating an environment that's gonna be way
• 40:03
  Ray Kleeman: more trust based.
• 40:04
  Ray Kleeman: And the moment trust is in place now, sky's the limit.
• 40:08
  Ray Kleeman: So Yeah.
• 40:09
  Ray Kleeman: I always kinda and I I try to evaluate that when I'm selecting leaders,
• 40:13
  Ray Kleeman: etcetera.
• 40:13
  Ray Kleeman: Like, how humble is this person?
• 40:16
  Ray Kleeman: Right?
• 40:16
  Ray Kleeman: And I'll ask those types of questions to get a sense,
• 40:20
  Ray Kleeman: because if they lack that humility and they're already in senior levels, I don't
• 40:24
  Ray Kleeman: know if I wanna run an experiment trying to change them.
• 40:26
  Ray Kleeman: I'm gonna move on to find somebody who's already got the humility.
• 40:29
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 40:30
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 40:30
  Lisa Nichols: Without the humility, people are not coachable.
• 40:33
  Lisa Nichols: They're not teachable.
• 40:34
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 40:35
  Lisa Nichols: You know, and, Ray, you know, I I heard a I heard a phrase.
• 40:39
  Lisa Nichols: I'm I'm the big mantra, you know, colloquialism person.
• 40:43
  Lisa Nichols: I love, like, things that I can hang my hat on.
• 40:45
  Lisa Nichols: And, I heard something years ago that said, like, some people walk in the
• 40:49
  Lisa Nichols: room, and they're like, here I am.
• 40:51
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 40:53
  Lisa Nichols: Other people walk in the room and go, there you are.
• 40:55
  Ray Kleeman: Exactly.
• 40:57
  Ray Kleeman: That's the humility.
• 40:58
  Lisa Nichols: And I'm not perfect at it, but I try to be a there you
• 41:01
  Lisa Nichols: are person.
• 41:02
  Lisa Nichols: And I think, you know, honestly, let's go back to Sarah and Ally.
• 41:06
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 41:07
  Lisa Nichols: Ally is a very confident, very com comfortable in
• 41:11
  Lisa Nichols: her skin.
• 41:12
  Lisa Nichols: She knows who she is and who she's not.
• 41:14
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 41:14
  Lisa Nichols: And she's totally okay with it.
• 41:15
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 41:16
  Lisa Nichols: And, and it is she is a more there you are.
• 41:20
  Lisa Nichols: I wanna get and and I just think that's they're just so beautiful in
• 41:24
  Lisa Nichols: that way.
• 41:24
  Lisa Nichols: So I
• 41:25
  Ray Kleeman: mean, if you tie that back to the three kind of core
• 41:29
  Ray Kleeman: responsibilities I think all leaders have Mhmm.
• 41:33
  Ray Kleeman: You can see how that can come through really quickly.
• 41:36
  Ray Kleeman: Right?
• 41:36
  Ray Kleeman: What the best coaches for me have been coaches that aren't
• 41:40
  Ray Kleeman: giving me the answer.
• 41:41
  Ray Kleeman: They're asking me the questions to force me to figure out an answer on
• 41:45
  Ray Kleeman: my own, and then they're offering from their own experience, etcetera.
• 41:48
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 41:49
  Ray Kleeman: So it but that's the
• 41:52
  Ray Kleeman: that's the humility coming through in coaching.
• 41:54
  Ray Kleeman: Like, why why why would I tell you, Lisa, exactly what I I would
• 41:58
  Ray Kleeman: say?
• 41:58
  Ray Kleeman: Here's what I've learned from my experience.
• 41:59
  Ray Kleeman: Let me ask you a couple of questions.
• 42:01
  Ray Kleeman: And I'm sure you're you're gonna find this on your end.
• 42:03
  Ray Kleeman: Right?
• 42:04
  Ray Kleeman: Yes.
• 42:04
  Ray Kleeman: That's like Yes.
• 42:05
  Ray Kleeman: When I say coach and develop internally, that's one of the corps the way
• 42:09
  Ray Kleeman: in which you coach and develop has to be anchored in humility.
• 42:12
  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
• 42:13
  Ray Kleeman: There are times where you need to be the expert, and there's times where
• 42:16
  Ray Kleeman: you need to say this is how you need to do something.
• 42:19
  Ray Kleeman: Sure.
• 42:20
  Ray Kleeman: But your general default should be from a spot of, I'm
• 42:24
  Ray Kleeman: gonna help you find the answer for yourself.
• 42:26
  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
• 42:27
  Ray Kleeman: And if you coach in that way, you know, it it's really powerful.
• 42:30
  Ray Kleeman: And, you know, that the other one, like, inspire and create energy.
• 42:34
  Ray Kleeman: Well, I mean, for me well, I always say
• 42:38
  Ray Kleeman: that leaders deal in a couple of of currencies at least.
• 42:42
  Ray Kleeman: And it's how much tension do you create and how much energy do you
• 42:46
  Ray Kleeman: either you know, you either create tension or you create calmness.
• 42:49
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 42:50
  Ray Kleeman: And you either create energy or you suck the life out of
• 42:54
  Ray Kleeman: people.
• 42:54
  Ray Kleeman: And And if we think about leaders and you kinda go, oh, wait a
• 42:57
  Ray Kleeman: minute.
• 42:57
  Ray Kleeman: Were they better at creating a a a sense of calm or were they
• 43:01
  Ray Kleeman: better at creating a bunch of tension in the oil?
• 43:03
  Ray Kleeman: You go, oh, if it's tension, it's like, I don't know if they're a
• 43:06
  Ray Kleeman: great leader.
• 43:06
  Ray Kleeman: And it's like, did they did they actually build energy or did they detract
• 43:10
  Ray Kleeman: energy?
• 43:10
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 43:10
  Ray Kleeman: It's like, they detract energy.
• 43:12
  Ray Kleeman: Those two things.
• 43:13
  Ray Kleeman: You're you're you're, you know, you delivered a tense and tired
• 43:18
  Ray Kleeman: environment.
• 43:18
  Ray Kleeman: Oh, that's not good in a long period of time.
• 43:21
  Ray Kleeman: But you think about other leaders who, you know, they they're they're infectious
• 43:25
  Ray Kleeman: in their the energy creation by the way in which they work with people,
• 43:28
  Ray Kleeman: the way in which they interact.
• 43:30
  Ray Kleeman: And you actually walk away with actually more enthusiasm and energy than you had
• 43:34
  Ray Kleeman: before and a greater sense of calm.
• 43:37
  Ray Kleeman: And I think humility is underpins that.
• 43:41
  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
• 43:41
  Ray Kleeman: Anyway, I just wanted to tie some of that back to this.
• 43:44
  Lisa Nichols: I'm so glad that you did.
• 43:45
  Lisa Nichols: I'm so glad you did.
• 43:46
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 43:46
  Lisa Nichols: I have a friend that calls those people the energy suckers, energy vampires.
• 43:50
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 43:51
  Ray Kleeman: Exactly.
• 43:51
  Ray Kleeman: We've all worked for them.
• 43:53
  Lisa Nichols: Don't be an energy vampire.
• 43:55
  Lisa Nichols: No.
• 43:55
  Lisa Nichols: And
• 43:56
  Ray Kleeman: the and the thing is and this is the humility side.
• 43:58
  Ray Kleeman: It's like, you will be.
• 43:59
  Ray Kleeman: You will be at times because you're not gonna get it right.
• 44:03
  Lisa Nichols: You're not perfect.
• 44:04
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 44:05
  Ray Kleeman: So be humble.
• 44:06
  Ray Kleeman: Own that.
• 44:07
  Ray Kleeman: Like, I'm a get it wrong.
• 44:08
  Ray Kleeman: There are times I'm gonna interact with you Yeah.
• 44:10
  Ray Kleeman: And you're gonna walk away and I will Yeah.
• 44:11
  Ray Kleeman: Have diminished energy in you.
• 44:13
  Ray Kleeman: Do not tell me when that happens.
• 44:15
  Ray Kleeman: Well, you tell me when that happens.
• 44:17
  Ray Kleeman: I'll and then I'll I'll figure out how I do that better next time.
• 44:20
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 44:20
  Ray Kleeman: Again, that's the humility coming through, and then that starts to role model
• 44:25
  Ray Kleeman: the way in which, you know, you you want the the culture, to
• 44:29
  Ray Kleeman: show up.
• 44:29
  Lisa Nichols: Culture, Marie, that everybody would wanna work in.
• 44:33
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 44:33
  Lisa Nichols: Seriously.
• 44:34
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, that's life giving, not,
• 44:38
  Lisa Nichols: sucking the life out of you.
• 44:39
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 44:40
  Lisa Nichols: We spend a lot of time at work.
• 44:41
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 44:41
  Lisa Nichols: We have an opportunity every day, I think, to,
• 44:47
  Lisa Nichols: you know, to to fill up somebody's bucket Yeah.
• 44:50
  Lisa Nichols: And make deposits.
• 44:51
  Lisa Nichols: Don't Yeah.
• 44:52
  Lisa Nichols: No.
• 44:52
  Lisa Nichols: Sometimes maybe you have to make a withdrawal or two, but, you know,
• 44:57
  Lisa Nichols: as long as the the rule that's the exception rather
• 45:01
  Lisa Nichols: than rule, I think you'll you're gonna be okay.
• 45:05
  Lisa Nichols: I love I love all of this.
• 45:06
  Lisa Nichols: This has been so good.
• 45:09
  Lisa Nichols: Gosh.
• 45:09
  Lisa Nichols: I've got just a couple I I'm gonna let's talk
• 45:13
  Lisa Nichols: about and you've already really touched on it, but I know it's so important
• 45:17
  Lisa Nichols: to you is purpose.
• 45:19
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 45:19
  Lisa Nichols: And I think so many times, right, I think people
• 45:23
  Lisa Nichols: can be in the trenches, and they really don't understand.
• 45:27
  Lisa Nichols: And I love what you said because really connecting the
• 45:31
  Lisa Nichols: the companies that you work for have had a big purpose.
• 45:34
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 45:34
  Lisa Nichols: Like, I will never forget Monsanto.
• 45:37
  Lisa Nichols: At one time, I don't know what it is now, but it used to
• 45:39
  Lisa Nichols: be to feed the world.
• 45:41
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 45:41
  Lisa Nichols: And I'm like, okay.
• 45:42
  Lisa Nichols: Now that's a mission I can get behind.
• 45:45
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 45:45
  Ray Kleeman: Why wouldn't we want to work for
• 45:47
  Lisa Nichols: a company that wants to feed the world?
• 45:49
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 45:49
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 45:50
  Lisa Nichols: Why is it so powerful?
• 45:52
  Lisa Nichols: And, you know, is there is there
• 45:57
  Lisa Nichols: a way that leaders how have you really helped
• 46:01
  Lisa Nichols: people, even the people that, you know, are are
• 46:05
  Lisa Nichols: maybe, like, the job does not seem like they're not an actuarial
• 46:10
  Lisa Nichols: or they're not, like, in the trenches of doing that, but maybe something, like,
• 46:14
  Lisa Nichols: on the periphery.
• 46:15
  Lisa Nichols: How have you helped them connect to a bigger purpose?
• 46:19
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 46:19
  Lisa Nichols: What have you done personally to do that?
• 46:21
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 46:23
  Ray Kleeman: So first, I think, you know, I tend to have a belief
• 46:27
  Ray Kleeman: that,
• 46:29
  Ray Kleeman: generally, people don't want to give protracted periods
• 46:33
  Ray Kleeman: of time
• 46:34
  Ray Kleeman: to
• 46:37
  Ray Kleeman: profit and, like, the financial metrics that
• 46:41
  Ray Kleeman: we all
• 46:42
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 46:42
  Ray Kleeman: Have to pay attention to.
• 46:43
  Ray Kleeman: They are very, very We have to pay attention.
• 46:45
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 46:45
  Lisa Nichols: But if
• 46:46
  Ray Kleeman: it if it stops there Mhmm.
• 46:48
  Ray Kleeman: Then, you know, it's hard to continue to give,
• 46:52
  Lisa Nichols: Kinda empty.
• 46:53
  Ray Kleeman: Beyond,
• 46:56
  Ray Kleeman: in in repeatedly, if there isn't something more
• 47:00
  Ray Kleeman: than just the financial outcomes that,
• 47:04
  Ray Kleeman: are important.
• 47:05
  Ray Kleeman: And so, you know, that is what purpose
• 47:10
  Ray Kleeman: does.
• 47:10
  Ray Kleeman: It it it defines that which is really ultimately important
• 47:15
  Ray Kleeman: beyond some of the important financial measures that we have to deliver on and
• 47:19
  Ray Kleeman: we get measured on.
• 47:20
  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
• 47:20
  Ray Kleeman: You know, when I was at Centene I I love this quote.
• 47:22
  Ray Kleeman: We we we acquired, Fidelis Care, which was
• 47:26
  Ray Kleeman: a a Medicaid,
• 47:29
  Ray Kleeman: provider in New York, the largest, Medicaid managed care provider in New York, and
• 47:33
  Ray Kleeman: it was owned by the Catholic church.
• 47:34
  Ray Kleeman: So when we acquired it, we were negotiating with bishops.
• 47:37
  Ray Kleeman: It was like the craziest thing.
• 47:40
  Ray Kleeman: But a a a Catholic priest was the CEO, and this was a multibillion
• 47:45
  Ray Kleeman: dollar, enterprise.
• 47:48
  Ray Kleeman: And he would always say, make no mistake.
• 47:51
  Ray Kleeman: No margin, no mission.
• 47:53
  Ray Kleeman: And so he he did not shy away from the financial metrics.
• 47:57
  Ray Kleeman: They are important, and we have to deliver a margin because if we don't,
• 48:01
  Ray Kleeman: there's no way that we're ultimately gonna be able to deliver our mission.
• 48:04
  Ray Kleeman: What he was saying was our purpose is what matters most.
• 48:08
  Ray Kleeman: The financial side is a means to be able to deliver that purpose with
• 48:12
  Ray Kleeman: regularity over a long period of time.
• 48:14
  Lisa Nichols: That's good.
• 48:15
  Ray Kleeman: And so the the the thing about purpose for me is, you know,
• 48:19
  Ray Kleeman: you you have to make that clear for people.
• 48:20
  Ray Kleeman: What what is it that you are contributing
• 48:23
  Ray Kleeman: to beyond the things that grab so much attention on a quarterly basis and
• 48:27
  Ray Kleeman: we have to report on and blah blah blah blah blah, And we get
• 48:29
  Ray Kleeman: paid on and all that other kind of stuff.
• 48:31
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 48:31
  Ray Kleeman: It's important.
• 48:32
  Ray Kleeman: But there's something more.
• 48:34
  Ray Kleeman: And, Tony actually does that really well at RGA.
• 48:38
  Ray Kleeman: He'll always anchor on he'll talk about, like, hey.
• 48:41
  Ray Kleeman: Just if if a life insurance product is sold and then we reinsure
• 48:46
  Ray Kleeman: it, and and he just does the math.
• 48:48
  Ray Kleeman: He's an actuary, but he does the math.
• 48:49
  Ray Kleeman: And he calculates how many lives did we just actually impact
• 48:54
  Ray Kleeman: by ensuring that that financial security is there for them.
• 48:57
  Ray Kleeman: And then you start he just shows the magnitude of it.
• 49:00
  Ray Kleeman: And then he'll walk through, like, why is that safety net so important to
• 49:04
  Ray Kleeman: families and societies, etcetera?
• 49:06
  Ray Kleeman: And I'll say, identify with that.
• 49:08
  Ray Kleeman: What if you didn't have life insurance?
• 49:11
  Ray Kleeman: And what if what if what if you passed away, you didn't have life
• 49:14
  Ray Kleeman: insurance, and your family was left with nothing?
• 49:16
  Ray Kleeman: He goes, now think about all the people in the world who don't have
• 49:20
  Ray Kleeman: access to life insurance for some reason or another.
• 49:22
  Ray Kleeman: And then think about our role in making sure that because
• 49:27
  Ray Kleeman: we're reinsuring those that are offering it directly, they are able to extend
• 49:32
  Ray Kleeman: the the safety net to broader people the way we do product design, etcetera,
• 49:36
  Ray Kleeman: etcetera.
• 49:37
  Ray Kleeman: And so he ties it back to why is that so important to society?
• 49:42
  Ray Kleeman: Why is it so important to a family, and how devastating
• 49:46
  Ray Kleeman: it can be if that's not there?
• 49:48
  Ray Kleeman: Now you got them hooked on purpose.
• 49:50
  Ray Kleeman: Everything we do is to ensure we get there.
• 49:52
  Ray Kleeman: And then you connect it back to what I was saying before
• 49:56
  Ray Kleeman: on on strategy to value realization and value in the
• 50:00
  Ray Kleeman: context of our purpose, talent, culture, and leadership.
• 50:04
  Ray Kleeman: And you're like, well, you're talent.
• 50:05
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 50:06
  Ray Kleeman: There's no way we can deliver all that without you there and you performing
• 50:10
  Ray Kleeman: the unique thing that you can perform and nobody else can.
• 50:14
  Ray Kleeman: So I think sometimes you just have to make it simple and heartfelt,
• 50:19
  Ray Kleeman: and keep it visible in front of mind and and,
• 50:23
  Ray Kleeman: you know, then it kinda carries through.
• 50:25
  Ray Kleeman: So
• 50:26
  Lisa Nichols: That's so good.
• 50:27
  Lisa Nichols: I mean and, ultimately, it's about impacting lives, right, and making a difference.
• 50:31
  Lisa Nichols: And everybody can get behind that.
• 50:33
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 50:33
  Lisa Nichols: Everybody can get behind it.
• 50:35
  Lisa Nichols: Oh my goodness.
• 50:36
  Lisa Nichols: We've got I've got so much more.
• 50:37
  Lisa Nichols: I've got pages and pages, but we're running out of time here.
• 50:41
  Lisa Nichols: So you've already talked about it.
• 50:43
  Lisa Nichols: But I was gonna ask you, what's something extra you believe everybody needs
• 50:47
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 50:47
  Lisa Nichols: And it's humility.
• 50:48
  Lisa Nichols: Is there anything else that you would wanna say about that, Ray?
• 50:52
  Lisa Nichols: I mean
• 50:55
  Ray Kleeman: No.
• 50:55
  Ray Kleeman: I don't think so, Lisa.
• 50:57
  Ray Kleeman: I've I think I covered it in the previous answer.
• 51:00
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 51:00
  Ray Kleeman: And I think that is that is the something extra.
• 51:04
  Ray Kleeman: If you can if you can find the humility, which
• 51:08
  Ray Kleeman: starts inside.
• 51:09
  Ray Kleeman: Right?
• 51:09
  Ray Kleeman: It it's gotta come from here.
• 51:12
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 51:12
  Ray Kleeman: Those those are the best leaders.
• 51:14
  Ray Kleeman: When they're when they're truly, truly humble,
• 51:18
  Ray Kleeman: and they operate from that perspective, that that's the something actually the best leaders
• 51:22
  Ray Kleeman: that I've seen, they have been they've just full humanity and
• 51:26
  Ray Kleeman: very humble.
• 51:27
  Ray Kleeman: Mhmm.
• 51:27
  Ray Kleeman: And those two things together are pretty powerful.
• 51:30
  Lisa Nichols: So good.
• 51:31
  Lisa Nichols: And I'm with you.
• 51:32
  Lisa Nichols: That CS Lewis quote is my most favorite definition.
• 51:36
  Lisa Nichols: It's CS Lewis.
• 51:37
  Ray Kleeman: Is that where that's from?
• 51:38
  Ray Kleeman: Yeah.
• 51:38
  Ray Kleeman: I didn't know that.
• 51:39
  Lisa Nichols: You know, don't think less of yourself, but just think of yourself less.
• 51:42
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 51:43
  Lisa Nichols: And think of others more.
• 51:44
  Lisa Nichols: So Yes.
• 51:45
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 51:45
  Lisa Nichols: And I love that because, I mean, that's not what it is.
• 51:47
  Lisa Nichols: It's not like, oh, you know, I'm so whatever.
• 51:50
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 51:50
  Lisa Nichols: Like but, but yeah.
• 51:53
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 51:53
  Lisa Nichols: Well, right.
• 51:54
  Lisa Nichols: This has been
• 51:55
  Ray Kleeman: so fun, Lisa.
• 51:56
  Ray Kleeman: Thank you, and I'd be happy to do it.
• 51:58
  Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
• 51:59
  Lisa Nichols: Well, let's do it again.
• 52:00
  Lisa Nichols: Let's do it again, because I'm just keep doing what you're doing
• 52:04
  Lisa Nichols: there, Ray.
• 52:04
  Lisa Nichols: You're making a huge difference, and I know you've made a difference on me.
• 52:08
  Lisa Nichols: And I cannot wait for our listeners to learn from you from this, episode
• 52:12
  Lisa Nichols: that we just did together.
• 52:13
  Lisa Nichols: So thank you so much.
• 52:14
  Lisa Nichols: Enjoy the rest of your time, my friend.
• 52:16
  Ray Kleeman: Alrighty.
• 52:16
  Ray Kleeman: Thank you.
• 52:16
  Ray Kleeman: Have a good day.
• 52:17
  Lisa Nichols: Bye bye.
• 52:19
  Announcer: Something extra with Lisa Nichols is a Technology Partners production.
• 52:23
  Announcer: Copyright Technology Partners Inc, twenty nineteen.
• 52:26
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• 52:30
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• 52:32
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• 52:36
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