Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / Kids Say They Want THIS More Than Screen Time — Are You Giving It to Them?

Transcript

Kids Say They Want THIS More Than Screen Time — Are You Giving It to Them? · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:05
Speaker 1: Today, welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. Minimum age legislation
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Speaker 1: for social media is just around the corner now, only
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Speaker 1: a couple of months to go, and this week it's
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Speaker 1: Child Protection Week. There are so many issues that are
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Speaker 1: occurring that cause us concern for the safety and the
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Speaker 1: well being of our children, whether it's happening online, whether
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Speaker 1: it's happening in childcare centers, or whether it's happening in
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Speaker 1: real life, things like bullying and challenges at school. And
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Speaker 1: one of my favorite people to talk to about these
0:34
Speaker 1: kinds of difficulties is doctor Katrina Lines. Katrina is the
0:38
Speaker 1: CEO of ACT for Kids and today we're going to
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Speaker 1: address those issues and more with some brand new data
0:45
Speaker 1: from a survey that Act for Kids have done looking
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Speaker 1: at what kids need as this social media minimum age
0:52
Speaker 1: legislation gets closer, stay with us. Hello, Welcome to the
0:57
Speaker 1: Happy Families Podcast. Real parenting solutions every day. This is
1:01
Speaker 1: Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. My name is doctor Justin
1:04
Speaker 1: Coulson and this week it's Child Protection Week. As a result,
1:08
Speaker 1: we wanted to get into some stuff that's going to
1:11
Speaker 1: be helpful for you as you discover and decide for
1:14
Speaker 1: yourself how you can help your children to be safe. Today,
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Speaker 1: my special guest, doctor Katrina Lynes, the chief executive officer
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Speaker 1: of Act for Kids. Katrina joined Act for Kids back
1:24
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six and has been working ever
1:27
Speaker 1: since delivering social services and clinical services at the individual, organizational,
1:33
Speaker 1: and community level to help our kids to be safe.
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Speaker 1: Katrina is a clinical psychologist more than twenty years of
1:40
Speaker 1: experience and a PhD in children's cognitive, social, and emotional
1:45
Speaker 1: development and post grade calls by the way in governance,
1:48
Speaker 1: business and education. Pretty well qualified to have the conversation
1:52
Speaker 1: we're going to have. Katrina, Thanks so much for being
1:54
Speaker 1: on the podcast. Before we talk about this new study
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Speaker 1: that you've done looking at connection in real life for kids,
2:01
Speaker 1: I really want to ask you about a couple of
2:03
Speaker 1: hard things in the news. Over the last several months,
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Speaker 1: we've been hearing about devastating, I I don't know if
2:09
Speaker 1: there's another word for it, devastating, horrific, appalling behavior by
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Speaker 1: adults towards children in childcare centers. We've had names released
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Speaker 1: of men who have committed offenses over the last several years,
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Speaker 1: and most recently we found out about the horrific behavior
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Speaker 1: of a man in Melbourne, but there's also been news
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Speaker 1: that's been kept relatively quiet compared with the men looking
2:34
Speaker 1: at some horrific torture and abuse in childcare centers from
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Speaker 1: a number of women in Sydney. Can you just talk
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Speaker 1: a bit about what's going on? And I guess more
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Speaker 1: to the point, you and I've both been asked about
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Speaker 1: this a lot over the last few months. What are
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Speaker 1: we supposed to do about it? Because I don't think
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Speaker 1: we can legislate around this.
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Speaker 2: No, it's a community problem. We need to work together
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Speaker 2: as a community to protect kids, and so it's not
3:00
Speaker 2: a government responsibility, as you said, justin to legislate against it,
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Speaker 2: because if people want to do the wrong thing, they'll
3:07
Speaker 2: just find a way to do the wrong thing. Yeah.
3:10
Speaker 1: I keep on hearing people say, oh, shouldn't we get
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Speaker 1: men out of childcare? Won't that solve the problem? And
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Speaker 1: I can't think of anything worse. Your response, your reaction.
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Speaker 2: Well, as a psychologist and you know someone who's looked
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Speaker 2: at child development for her whole career, I think that
3:25
Speaker 2: is the silliest thing I ever heard. Because children need
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Speaker 2: male and female role models, so we need to make
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Speaker 2: environments safe for them and fun and nurturing, which is
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Speaker 2: our responsibility as a community, rather than looking to the
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Speaker 2: government to solve the problem for us.
3:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, safeguarding is so important, and yet trying to
3:45
Speaker 1: put legislation in just makes more hoops and sort of.
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Speaker 1: I don't think it actually improves the situation. It just
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Speaker 1: makes it more difficult and you're never going to be
3:55
Speaker 1: able to stand top of compliance anyway. What about these
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Speaker 1: childcare works, because in Sydney, these women, why do you
4:02
Speaker 1: think that the news media didn't pick up on the
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Speaker 1: torture and the neglect and the abuse, like the photographs
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Speaker 1: and the filming and the laughter and delight that these
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Speaker 1: women seem to take from hurting these kids.
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Speaker 2: I think it's not as newsworthy potentially as you know,
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Speaker 2: serial child sexual abuse, which is an awful thing to say,
4:24
Speaker 2: but it just hasn't seemed to grab the attention. And
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Speaker 2: we certainly haven't heard any rhetoric about women, you know,
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Speaker 2: leaving childcare as a result of any of those revelations
4:38
Speaker 2: from Sydney or the alleged incidents in Sydney. I think
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Speaker 2: it highlights an issue for workers in child care generally,
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Speaker 2: they're generally poorly paid, struggle to have everybody mandatory trained,
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Speaker 2: and they're not a supported workforce, you know, Staffing ratios
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Speaker 2: are you know, not looked at properly, and so there's
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Speaker 2: too few workers for the number of kids that they're
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Speaker 2: caring for. And so I think that's a bigger problem
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Speaker 2: than whether it's males or females doing the wrong thing.
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Speaker 2: We need to be supporting workforce to be able to
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Speaker 2: know what to do and to be able to care
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Speaker 2: for kids and feel supported themselves.
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Speaker 1: Whenever I give a talk to a childcare organization and
5:24
Speaker 1: I'm doing some staff development, I'm just in love with
5:27
Speaker 1: these people who do such a great job generally speaking,
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Speaker 1: their hearts are big, and they love these kids and
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Speaker 1: do such good work and so often such thankless work.
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Speaker 1: I just think there are a wonderful workforce, and it's
5:42
Speaker 1: such a shame that there a shame. Feels like I'm
5:45
Speaker 1: downplaying it. It's just devastating that there are people who
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Speaker 1: are doing these kinds of things and bringing an entire
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Speaker 1: industry into disrepute when there are so many good people
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Speaker 1: doing such good work. Anyway, that's not the reason that
5:55
Speaker 1: we've really got you here. Although I think, like I said,
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Speaker 1: it's appropriate for Child Protection Week. You've commissioned a study
6:02
Speaker 1: three hundred Australian kids aged ten to sixteen looking at
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Speaker 1: connection in real life and connection online, and that's what
6:10
Speaker 1: i wanted to talk to you about today. I'm always
6:13
Speaker 1: fascinated when data comes through. When you had a look
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Speaker 1: at what these kids were asked and what they were
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Speaker 1: responding with, what did you find curious about what the
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Speaker 1: kids were saying about this Act for Kids' Research.
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Speaker 2: Well, we were interested because we've got the social media
6:28
Speaker 2: ban looming in December, and so we wanted to see
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Speaker 2: how connected kids were online and what they really preferred.
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Speaker 2: We were actually stunned because forty one percent of kids
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Speaker 2: said they would prefer to spend time with their family
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Speaker 2: in person, compared to fifteen percent who said they would
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Speaker 2: prefer to go online. That was their preferred kind of
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Speaker 2: way of connecting with the world. So that's, you know,
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Speaker 2: that's really quite surprising. We thought kids would be wanting
7:01
Speaker 2: to go online, and three quarters of the children told
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Speaker 2: us that they felt most connected to their family when
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Speaker 2: they're talking in person about their day, even though almost
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Speaker 2: half of them spend at least an hour a day
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Speaker 2: talking to someone online.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, So three quick responses to this, and I'd love
7:20
Speaker 1: to get your reaction. First off, OECD Research published a
7:23
Speaker 1: couple of months ago plus some data that came out
7:25
Speaker 1: of a quarry UNI with doctor Brad Marshall and Professor
7:28
Speaker 1: Wayne Warburton. Both of them found that in Australia, we're
7:32
Speaker 1: finding that adolescents spending in recreational screen time an average
7:36
Speaker 1: of nine hours per day just staring at their screens.
7:40
Speaker 1: Those numbers are astonishing. So when I hear you say that,
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Speaker 1: it kind of there's like this clash between kids saying, well,
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Speaker 1: here's what I really want, but here's what I'm actually doing.
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Speaker 1: The second thing that it prompts for me is I
7:52
Speaker 1: bet there's a lot of parents who are listening to
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Speaker 1: that data that you've just shared and saying, well, hang on.
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Speaker 1: Whenever I say to my kids, why don't you get
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Speaker 1: off the screen and come and spend some time doing
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Speaker 1: this thing with this, the kids don't get off the screen.
8:01
Speaker 1: They winge and they whine and they mope. They're so
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Speaker 1: compelled to be on their screens. And then the third
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Speaker 1: thing that popped in my head was once the kids
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Speaker 1: do get off the screens, they really do enjoy themselves.
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Speaker 1: And it's very very rare. If you say to the kids,
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Speaker 1: what was the most fun that you had this week,
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Speaker 1: it's very rare that they'll say, oh, when we were
8:19
Speaker 1: all staring at us screens, sitting on the couch in
8:20
Speaker 1: the living room, that was awesome. Like they usually talk
8:23
Speaker 1: about the fact that you get out and you throw
8:25
Speaker 1: a ball around, or you jump on the trampoline, or
8:27
Speaker 1: you cook that thing together in the kitchen. That's the
8:29
Speaker 1: stuff they cling to, the stuff that they want. They
8:32
Speaker 1: really they want the connection. But how do you, I guess,
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Speaker 1: respond to that disconnect where the kids are saying, yeah,
8:40
Speaker 1: I want this in the survey, but in real life,
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Speaker 1: if my parents asked me to get off the screen,
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Speaker 1: I'm going to fight and winge and whine about it.
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Speaker 2: I think there's a point in the middle where you
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Speaker 2: join them where they're at, and so there's you know,
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Speaker 2: their online world for themselves, and then there's the bit
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Speaker 2: in the middle where you join them where they're at,
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Speaker 2: and then there's the offline world whether you do stuff
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Speaker 2: like cook together and have fun. Nearly three quarters of
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Speaker 2: the kids told us that they felt positive about their
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Speaker 2: close adult being in the same room when they were online,
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Speaker 2: and seventeen percent of the young people we surveyed said
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Speaker 2: they actually felt safer, but that we asked them how
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Speaker 2: many like we asked them, you know, how often is
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Speaker 2: it that you do have an adult in the room
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Speaker 2: with you? And only ten percent of them said they do.
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Speaker 2: And so overwhelmingly the kids told us that they wanted
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Speaker 2: adults to join them in their online world and play
9:34
Speaker 2: games with them or do something with them so that
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Speaker 2: they can connect. And so that's that middle space of
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Speaker 2: adults joining kids in their world that I think we're missing.
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Speaker 1: Interesting that you say that, because I'm not big on
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Speaker 1: joining my kids in the online world. I don't like
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Speaker 1: social media. I stay away from as much as possible.
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Speaker 1: I don't game. But my son in law has sort
9:59
Speaker 1: of taken and up that role with my youngest kids,
10:01
Speaker 1: who really do like being online, and they look forward
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Speaker 1: to going over and hanging out with their big sister
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Speaker 1: and their brother in law, because I mean, he's an adult,
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Speaker 1: he's in his mid twenties. My youngest is only eleven,
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Speaker 1: and they get to play all of those games and
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Speaker 1: be in that online world and they have so much fun.
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Speaker 1: I love watching it from a distance. It still isn't
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Speaker 1: enough to tempt me into it, and I'm finding other
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Speaker 1: ways to connect with my kids in real life. To
10:25
Speaker 1: steal a phrase from you, but I think that that
10:29
Speaker 1: idea that you've suggested is really valid. It also illustrates
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Speaker 1: to me that, at least the way that I'm doing it,
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Speaker 1: it highlights that when the kids have got good adults
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Speaker 1: in their lives, it doesn't really matter whether it's you
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Speaker 1: or another good, safe adult that they can trust and
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Speaker 1: rely on. They're getting those socialization needs met and they're
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Speaker 1: having that third space or that meeting in the middle
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Speaker 1: occur which satisfies their needs and helps them to feel
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Speaker 1: like their online experiences are able to be engaged with
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Speaker 1: in healthy ways. I does that make sense? Am I
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Speaker 1: getting that right?
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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yes, absolutely. I mean, you know, the clear messages
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Speaker 2: that we heard from kids was that they were they
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Speaker 2: wanted to connect with their families. But there is a
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Speaker 2: disconnect I think in that generation gap where you know,
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Speaker 2: the children's world is an online social world now and
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Speaker 2: that a lot of adults don't understand it. Although I
11:27
Speaker 2: think you know the example of your son in law
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Speaker 2: is that younger adults and younger parents do understand it.
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Speaker 2: Because that's kind of their world as well, and so
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Speaker 2: they want adults, they're close adults to like the things
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Speaker 2: that they're doing and be interested in the things they're doing.
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Speaker 2: And that's the same as whether they're playing sports or
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Speaker 2: they're playing Fortnite, you know, So it's it's the same
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Speaker 2: kind of emotion that's driving kids wanting the connection.
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Speaker 1: Well, big changes are coming after the break, I'm going
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Speaker 1: to ask doctor Katrina Lines what message we need for
12:01
Speaker 1: families to wrap their head around with the minimum age
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Speaker 1: legislation coming into effect later this year. And we're also
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Speaker 1: going to talk about finding time to connect in real
12:09
Speaker 1: life since that's what the kids really want. Doctor Extrina Lines,
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Speaker 1: the CEO of ACT for Kids. Your recent survey let's
12:24
Speaker 1: connect in real life IRL. Pretty soon there's going to
12:29
Speaker 1: be legislation that is designed to prevent children under the
12:32
Speaker 1: age of sixteen from being on social media. I'd love
12:35
Speaker 1: to get your take. I've been and interviewed about this endlessly.
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Speaker 1: What's your take though on how parents and carers can
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Speaker 1: guide their children as this transition occurs.
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Speaker 2: Well, I think, you know, following from what I was
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Speaker 2: saying before, justin adults don't necessarily give the social world
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Speaker 2: of children online, the weight that you know it has
12:59
Speaker 2: for them, and so we think that switching off might
13:03
Speaker 2: be difficult for them. But I think that young people
13:07
Speaker 2: may be very fearful about it and worried and anxious
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Speaker 2: about being cut off from their friends and their network
13:14
Speaker 2: when the band comes into effect, and that we really
13:18
Speaker 2: need to be acknowledging that and trying to understand that
13:22
Speaker 2: and support them through it. And so I think opening
13:25
Speaker 2: up conversations now, not leaving it till December when the
13:30
Speaker 2: band is about to come into place, and really listening
13:34
Speaker 2: to what their worries are and showing them that you
13:37
Speaker 2: want to understand and you want to help, asking them
13:42
Speaker 2: what they're most worried about and what they think might help,
13:47
Speaker 2: and getting them to identify some ideas. I also think
13:51
Speaker 2: that some young people are you know, their whole social
13:54
Speaker 2: world is online, and that they could have negative mental
13:58
Speaker 2: health impacts, you know, and so parents and cares need
14:02
Speaker 2: to watch for those, so things like changes in eating
14:05
Speaker 2: and sleeping and mood as a result of the band
14:10
Speaker 2: coming into place. So you know, open up those conversations,
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Speaker 2: show you a little listening, don't belittle the impact on them,
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Speaker 2: show them you want to understand and you want to help.
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Speaker 1: It's curious to me when I think about what life
14:23
Speaker 1: was like before social media. Most of us had cordless
14:27
Speaker 1: phones that were for the entire family, and kids would
14:30
Speaker 1: spend a lot of time on that phone talking with
14:32
Speaker 1: their friends. I think that private schooling means that we've
14:37
Speaker 1: got more people from a greater variety of places coming
14:40
Speaker 1: together for a school, which means that there's less opportunity
14:43
Speaker 1: for kids to pop out into the street and hang
14:44
Speaker 1: out with the local neighbors because they don't know them
14:47
Speaker 1: in the same way that they did. Like once upon
14:49
Speaker 1: a time, everyone went to the neighborhood school. That's not
14:51
Speaker 1: the case so much anymore, not having social media. As
14:55
Speaker 1: much as I'm broadly in favor of this legislation and
14:57
Speaker 1: think that it's a good thing for our younger population
15:00
Speaker 1: who are vulnerable and unfortunately are being harmed way too
15:04
Speaker 1: much by what goes on in social media, there are
15:06
Speaker 1: some very real challenges that we're going to be confronted
15:08
Speaker 1: with because of the way the world has shifted in
15:10
Speaker 1: the last fifteen to twenty years. I love your advice
15:13
Speaker 1: around that. Thank you for sharing that. One last question
15:16
Speaker 1: before I let you go. Your survey is called Let's
15:20
Speaker 1: Connect Irl. Let's Connect in real life. Kids are demonstrating
15:24
Speaker 1: a really strong desire for this in spite of the
15:27
Speaker 1: fact that the online world is so endemic, it's so
15:30
Speaker 1: intertwined with their lives. When you think about connection and
15:35
Speaker 1: you think about how busy parents and caregivers are, what
15:38
Speaker 1: would your top one or two tips be for parents
15:41
Speaker 1: who really just want to find the time to connect
15:43
Speaker 1: in real life with their kids but are struggling because
15:45
Speaker 1: either the kids are a bit oppositional or life is
15:47
Speaker 1: really busy.
15:48
Speaker 2: Look, it can be really, really hard. I think if
15:52
Speaker 2: you just focus on the day to day things you
15:56
Speaker 2: do and trying to be present and listening to your
15:58
Speaker 2: kids while you're doing it in the car driving home
16:01
Speaker 2: or when you're cooking dinner. I think you were talking
16:04
Speaker 2: before about cooking something together and making things fun that
16:08
Speaker 2: are just day to day activities, but actually do them
16:11
Speaker 2: with your kids no one's on their phone. And then
16:15
Speaker 2: you know, planning family fun time that's quality time. But
16:19
Speaker 2: it doesn't need to be. You know, it can be
16:21
Speaker 2: once a week that you're planning and looking forward to
16:24
Speaker 2: doing something together, but you know, little kids in particular
16:28
Speaker 2: just want to come and help you cook dinner. And
16:29
Speaker 2: I know it can be a pain when you you know,
16:32
Speaker 2: everyone's just got home and you got lunch boxes everywhere,
16:34
Speaker 2: and you you know, you're trying to get kids to
16:37
Speaker 2: do stuff. But just taking a deep breath and letting
16:40
Speaker 2: them hang out with you while you're doing those things
16:44
Speaker 2: means that you get the things done, but you're actually
16:47
Speaker 2: connecting with your kids as well.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, kids still love to ime.
16:52
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely. No. Look, my kids are grown up now,
16:57
Speaker 2: but when they were young, I'd have three of them
17:00
Speaker 2: in the afternoon, all clamoring just to have this conversation,
17:03
Speaker 2: and one my oldest daughter, said, right, I'm going to
17:06
Speaker 2: get the timer out. So we had this kitchen timer
17:09
Speaker 2: and they would time each other so they had they
17:12
Speaker 2: had their own allotted time for me to listen to them.
17:16
Speaker 2: And you know, my head was spinning because I had
17:19
Speaker 2: to make dinner and put the washing on and blah
17:21
Speaker 2: blah blah. But it was actually a kid generated, really
17:26
Speaker 2: good strategy.
17:27
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's so funny though, because when it's going on,
17:29
Speaker 1: you're kind of going, oh, my goodness, I don't have
17:31
Speaker 1: headspace for this. Would you all just stop making noise?
17:34
Speaker 1: So I can do the important stuff and cook the
17:36
Speaker 1: meal and you're like, oh, hang on, no, this is
17:38
Speaker 1: the important stuff, the milk and wait. Doctor Katrina Lynes,
17:42
Speaker 1: the CEO of ACT Kids, always enjoy our chats. Thanks
17:44
Speaker 1: so much for joining me.
17:45
Speaker 2: Thank you. Justin.
17:46
Speaker 1: The Have Your Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roulant
17:49
Speaker 1: from Bridge Media. We have social admin and research support
17:53
Speaker 1: from Mim Hammonds. If you'd like any more details about
17:56
Speaker 1: the ACT for Kids Let's Connect irl study, we will
18:00
Speaker 1: link to that in the show notes and for more
18:03
Speaker 1: information and resources. Visit Happy families dot com dot au
18:07
Speaker 1: to make your family happier