Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Supermarket massacre victim’s family needs help & Bill Cosby verdict watch

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Supermarket massacre victim’s family needs help & Bill Cosby verdict watch · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: It was right before one am when state police got
0:09
Speaker 1: the one call about a deadly shooting at the White
0:12
Speaker 1: Supermarket outside Tongue Cannon. Three men confirmed dead, including the gunmen,
0:17
Speaker 1: along with a woman. This was another sensul stack that
0:20
Speaker 1: didn't have to happen. It's a tragedy. Year old Randy
0:23
Speaker 1: Stare of Dallas Lazerne County used two shotguns to kill
0:27
Speaker 1: three of his coworker. This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:33
Speaker 1: Stare reported to work just before eleven o'clock Wednesday night
0:36
Speaker 1: for a regular shift. Investigators think he spent the next
0:39
Speaker 1: ninety minutes blocking the stores five exits before moving his
0:43
Speaker 1: car in front of an emergency door and taking two
0:46
Speaker 1: shotguns back into the building and opening fire. In a
0:50
Speaker 1: journal entry dated Monday, Stare said he was ready to die,
0:54
Speaker 1: claiming to be a girl trapped in a man's body.
0:58
Speaker 1: Imagine the fear. I recall working late, late, late nights
1:03
Speaker 1: at a sandwich shop to put myself to law school,
1:08
Speaker 1: and I would be the only one they're laid into
1:12
Speaker 1: the night, And at the time I didn't think a
1:15
Speaker 1: whole lot about it. I remember sitting at a table
1:19
Speaker 1: in the sandwich shop looking out into the Strip Center
1:23
Speaker 1: parking lot. It would be about ten o'clock at night,
1:26
Speaker 1: and it would be almost deserted and most of the
1:29
Speaker 1: stores would be closed. But now I'd be studying away.
1:34
Speaker 1: Right now, I'm talking about a supermarket employee who brings
1:39
Speaker 1: two guns to work overnight blocks of stores entrance and
1:46
Speaker 1: exits so nobody could flee and guns down three fellow
1:52
Speaker 1: employees in a suburb of Scranton. Joining me right now
2:00
Speaker 1: is Becky Hayes, the sister in law of one of
2:05
Speaker 1: the victims. I mayan see, Grace. This is crime Stories.
2:09
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, Becky. I want to
2:13
Speaker 1: talk about the go fund me account you have set
2:16
Speaker 1: up for Briant's family. First, I want to go through
2:21
Speaker 1: the facts of this case. What happened, well, Nancy, it was,
2:28
Speaker 1: you know, Brian was working his normal shift as he
2:31
Speaker 1: always did. He was the manager over the Weist local supermarket,
2:36
Speaker 1: and all the employees wanted to work normally ever, as
2:40
Speaker 1: an every day that they would do. And about ninety
2:43
Speaker 1: minutes into their shift, one of their co workers went
2:47
Speaker 1: out on his break and one to his car and
2:52
Speaker 1: proceeded to get a duffel bag. And as you said,
2:55
Speaker 1: he had walked all the exits, got a duffel bag
2:58
Speaker 1: with two shot guns in it, went into the store
3:02
Speaker 1: and opened fire. He opened sixty rounds on these Yes. Um,
3:10
Speaker 1: there were actually four employees in the store at the time.
3:14
Speaker 1: One woman, by the grace of God, was actually able
3:17
Speaker 1: to escape and call nine one. Unfortunately, my brother in law,
3:21
Speaker 1: Brian was in the store with two other co workers,
3:24
Speaker 1: Victoria and Terry. They were not so lucky, and we're
3:28
Speaker 1: not able to escape. What yeah, but what happened and
3:34
Speaker 1: the gunfire and all three of them were senselessly killed
3:38
Speaker 1: by this person. And they knew him, correct, They knew
3:43
Speaker 1: very well. Absolutely. They worked together for years. Um, you
3:47
Speaker 1: know from my understanding, they they worked together for you know,
3:50
Speaker 1: six or seven years. So this was you know, they
3:53
Speaker 1: even considered themselves as the wife family. A lot of
3:56
Speaker 1: the employees there. It's a very small town and everyone
3:59
Speaker 1: was very oo snid, and you know, this was someone
4:02
Speaker 1: that they might be at barbecues with or um. You know,
4:06
Speaker 1: they knew each other's families, they knew everything that was
4:09
Speaker 1: going on. They would help you know, people would help
4:11
Speaker 1: each other out, and you know, so this this was
4:14
Speaker 1: someone that they never and then in a million years
4:17
Speaker 1: would have thought would have done this to them? What?
4:21
Speaker 1: Not that it matters, but what what was the motive?
4:25
Speaker 1: Why would he do this? Well, I there's there's there's
4:30
Speaker 1: no reason for what he did other than uh, you
4:33
Speaker 1: know from what I we've been able to surmise he
4:37
Speaker 1: definitely had mental um mental issues and struggled with depression. UM.
4:44
Speaker 1: And that's really the only there's no justification forbes. Were
4:50
Speaker 1: they hidden? I mean what what? What? What do you believe?
4:54
Speaker 1: Was he angry? How could mental issues like that be
4:58
Speaker 1: hidden for so long? It's um, I honestly I can't.
5:05
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I have no idea how how
5:07
Speaker 1: that you know it could be going on for so long?
5:10
Speaker 1: And I'm going to can't speak for anyone else, but UM,
5:13
Speaker 1: you know, it seems like it was a problem for
5:15
Speaker 1: years and something with that, you know, that that he
5:18
Speaker 1: had struggled with and that um, you know for many
5:22
Speaker 1: many years, and they probably thought they were helping him
5:26
Speaker 1: or befriending him during all of this. Oh my stores,
5:31
Speaker 1: I'm just so sorry about this. What time or not occur? Um?
5:40
Speaker 1: It was about one o'clock in the morning actually that
5:43
Speaker 1: that had happened. So this was what a store now
5:47
Speaker 1: it actually, um, it was not opened twenty four hours
5:51
Speaker 1: they were. This was the night shift that was. They
5:54
Speaker 1: were in charge of, um, you know, cleaning the store,
5:56
Speaker 1: restocking the store. So no customers were um, you know,
6:00
Speaker 1: presidents are allowed to be president in the store at
6:02
Speaker 1: the time. This was just strictly the night crew that
6:05
Speaker 1: was working. Brian Hayes, a forty seven year old father, husband, son, brother,
6:12
Speaker 1: was known to be a very quiet guy, a man
6:16
Speaker 1: a few words with a heart of gold, who desperately
6:21
Speaker 1: loved wife Tina and their daughter Caitlin. Right after high school,
6:28
Speaker 1: he enlisted in the U. S. Navy, just like my
6:31
Speaker 1: dad served on the U. S. S. Eisenhower deployed to
6:35
Speaker 1: the Middle East during Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm.
6:42
Speaker 1: He has been in Springfield, Pennsylvania with his family and
6:46
Speaker 1: was employed there. As Becky is telling us, by Wife's Supermarkets.
6:52
Speaker 1: Brian lost his life, leaving his wife and daughter too early.
7:00
Speaker 1: He and two other coworkers gunn down for no reason
7:08
Speaker 1: in the early morning hours there at work. What can
7:16
Speaker 1: we do? What can we do? There's a seven year
7:23
Speaker 1: old girl that's going to bed tonight without her dad.
7:32
Speaker 1: There is yet another wife who will never be able
7:37
Speaker 1: to reach out to her husband again. You know how
7:41
Speaker 1: hard it is to raise children even with your spouse.
7:46
Speaker 1: Imagine without without a child's support check, without an alimony payment,
7:52
Speaker 1: without every other weekend with dad, with nothing but memor race.
8:03
Speaker 1: I just hate it so badly. With me is Becky Hayes,
8:11
Speaker 1: and she's trying to do something about it. Tell me
8:16
Speaker 1: about your go fund me account back. Well, I I
8:21
Speaker 1: felt so hopeless, and I felt like there was just
8:23
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to do anything that I could
8:25
Speaker 1: for my niece and for my sister in law. I
8:28
Speaker 1: just couldn't even imagine that the devastation that they were
8:31
Speaker 1: going through. I knew what I felt, um, and I
8:33
Speaker 1: felt like my heart was breaking in a million pieces.
8:35
Speaker 1: So I couldn't even imagine the pain that they were
8:38
Speaker 1: going through. So, UM, I know that finances has has
8:42
Speaker 1: always been a bit of a struggle for them. UM.
8:46
Speaker 1: My brother law Brian and my sister in law Tina
8:49
Speaker 1: actually were employed by the same supermarket they used to work.
8:53
Speaker 1: Brian worked at the night shift so that Tina could
8:57
Speaker 1: work the day shift so that there was always coverage
8:59
Speaker 1: for their daughter. UM. So he sacrificed and he did
9:03
Speaker 1: the night shifts just so he could always make sure
9:05
Speaker 1: that someone was there to be with his daughter and
9:07
Speaker 1: to to to raise her with both of her parents presents. UM.
9:13
Speaker 1: So I know that money has been an issue. I
9:16
Speaker 1: couldn't even imagine how my sister in law ever going
9:18
Speaker 1: to go back into work in that store again. Um,
9:21
Speaker 1: to work in the same place where you know that
9:23
Speaker 1: your husband was totally gunned down. UM, I don't think
9:27
Speaker 1: that she'll ever be able to return there, and rightfully so,
9:30
Speaker 1: I don't think she anyone should even be asked to
9:33
Speaker 1: return there. Um. So I know that the biggest need
9:36
Speaker 1: that they have right now is for money. UM. My
9:40
Speaker 1: sister in law, Tina has to now think about how
9:43
Speaker 1: she's going to pay her bills and how she's going
9:46
Speaker 1: to support my seven year old niece, Caitlin, and UM,
9:49
Speaker 1: you know, I know that that's been a struggle. So
9:52
Speaker 1: I just decided to start a go fund me account
9:56
Speaker 1: where UM, you know so many people can really late
10:00
Speaker 1: on some way. UM, you know, just put yourself in
10:04
Speaker 1: that position, and it could have been any one of us.
10:07
Speaker 1: We all watched the news, um, you know, and you're
10:10
Speaker 1: always were also naive just to think that you know,
10:14
Speaker 1: it'll never be me. It always seems so far away
10:16
Speaker 1: from home, and you know, I'm here to tell you
10:19
Speaker 1: that it's not. You know, it could be any one
10:22
Speaker 1: of us. It could have been any one of our
10:24
Speaker 1: brothers or sons or daughters, or it could be any
10:29
Speaker 1: one of us. And I've you know, I've tried to
10:33
Speaker 1: you know, throughout this just kind of realized that there
10:36
Speaker 1: there is there are many many good people in this world,
10:40
Speaker 1: and and there are many people that want to help.
10:42
Speaker 1: And UM, this was just a way that I feel
10:45
Speaker 1: that people have definitely been embracing and you know, every
10:49
Speaker 1: little bit helps, Every five dollar donation, every ten dollar donation,
10:53
Speaker 1: you know, it helps to UM blessing the burden that
10:58
Speaker 1: my sister in law now has to carry on her own.
11:01
Speaker 1: And you know, we we so appreciate the love and
11:04
Speaker 1: support that we've gotten from the community. There's been people
11:08
Speaker 1: that have offered to host um, you know, the repast,
11:11
Speaker 1: people that never even knew my brother in law. UM,
11:14
Speaker 1: there are so many good people in the world, and UM,
11:17
Speaker 1: you know, I truly believe in my heart that that
11:20
Speaker 1: there's more good than there is evil, and those of
11:23
Speaker 1: us that have the good hearts. We just need to
11:26
Speaker 1: to help those that we can and do what we can.
11:29
Speaker 1: And this is just a little part that, um, you
11:32
Speaker 1: know that that we can do to help, you know.
11:34
Speaker 1: Talking about his wife going back to work in the store,
11:40
Speaker 1: the grocery where he was murdered, People ask me all
11:45
Speaker 1: the time, UM, have you ever been back to where
11:50
Speaker 1: your fiancee was murdered? Have you ever read the trial transcript? No?
11:56
Speaker 1: I haven't. The thought of it, just the ought of
12:01
Speaker 1: going there literally makes me physically just shake. No. I
12:12
Speaker 1: have not gone back to do what stand there and
12:16
Speaker 1: look at it and relive when he was murdered by
12:21
Speaker 1: someone he didn't know, I mean, and put my head
12:25
Speaker 1: in that space again. Uh, into such a dark area
12:30
Speaker 1: it's hard to get back out. No. I hope she
12:33
Speaker 1: never has to go there again. How do I find
12:36
Speaker 1: the go fund me account? Becky Um? You can just
12:40
Speaker 1: go on to the go fund me page and the
12:43
Speaker 1: really fund that is called He's Um it's his Family's
12:47
Speaker 1: really fun h a y E. S Hayes Family Relief Fund. Okay,
12:57
Speaker 1: So I go to the god like for instance, I'm
13:00
Speaker 1: gonna do it right now, just so I know exactly
13:03
Speaker 1: how to do it. Okay, so I'm online. I'm gonna
13:06
Speaker 1: go to Google, which is what I do every morning
13:09
Speaker 1: about five, and I'm going to go to go fund
13:12
Speaker 1: me page. Go fund me page, al right, go fundi page.
13:21
Speaker 1: All right. Let's see here what pops up. Okay, the
13:25
Speaker 1: fund raising sight, go fund me, it's one word all together.
13:30
Speaker 1: So then start a fund start, start a fundraise or search.
13:34
Speaker 1: It's up at the top left. I'm gonna put h A.
13:38
Speaker 1: Y E s Space family. He his family. Okay, I
13:44
Speaker 1: just tuck in Hayes Family. Let's see what comes up here.
13:47
Speaker 1: We go there. It is top left. Okay, Hayes Family
13:54
Speaker 1: Relief Fund. Okay, now I know how to do it. Mmmmm.
14:01
Speaker 1: This is how you do it. You go to the
14:03
Speaker 1: go fund me page. It's all one word, go fund me,
14:08
Speaker 1: and then you go to Hayes family and you see
14:11
Speaker 1: the Hayes family really fund It can't bring him back,
14:15
Speaker 1: we all know that, but it may help his widow
14:21
Speaker 1: and ease some of her suffering about bills. I feel
14:27
Speaker 1: so pitiful that that's all we can do. But I
14:31
Speaker 1: will do it, and I'm doing it now. Thank you.
14:36
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us and sharing this information.
14:39
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. We truly appreciate all of your
14:42
Speaker 1: well wishes and prayers and thoughts. They talk to raise
14:45
Speaker 1: us during a time when we're down. God bless you,
14:48
Speaker 1: and please tell her we are praying and praying and
14:53
Speaker 1: praying for her and her daughter, Caitlin. I'm gonna pause
14:57
Speaker 1: just a moment and thanks someone very special for making
15:02
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17:16
Speaker 1: Thank you. And right now, Bill Cosby. Bill Cosby's fate
17:22
Speaker 1: is now in the jury's hands. Andrey Constance says that
17:25
Speaker 1: Bill Cosby sexually assaulted her January February two thousand four.
17:29
Speaker 1: Cosby has charged with felony aggravated in decent dessault. Cosby
17:33
Speaker 1: has denied wrongdoing and says their encounter was consensual. Seventy
17:37
Speaker 1: nine year old has been accused by more than fifty
17:39
Speaker 1: women of drugging and or sexual misconduct. I've never seen
17:43
Speaker 1: anything like this. Judge is only allowing one other accuser
17:46
Speaker 1: to take the stand. The comedian left court Monday night
17:49
Speaker 1: without a verdict, but with his spirits still intact. Funny
17:55
Speaker 1: man Bill Cosby not as funny this morning. Video and
18:01
Speaker 1: photos of him at the courthouse show him not smiling
18:05
Speaker 1: with the typical thumbs up like Dr Huxtable. He looks
18:09
Speaker 1: concerned and he should right now. He is facing at
18:14
Speaker 1: least ten years jail time in the alleged rape of
18:19
Speaker 1: Area constant, who worked at Temple University with the women's
18:23
Speaker 1: basketball team. At that time. Bill Cosby, America's former funny man,
18:29
Speaker 1: was a trustee at Temple. Not anymore. That goes without
18:34
Speaker 1: saying with me right now. Veteran trial lawyer and professor
18:39
Speaker 1: of litigation at Emory Law School Randy Kessler, Randy, what
18:44
Speaker 1: is taking the jury so long? What's their problem? Well,
18:49
Speaker 1: it means it's a it's a difficult case. It means
18:51
Speaker 1: there's a lot to consider and nothing. Really. What's difficult
18:54
Speaker 1: about it? Well, the laws? What's difficult about it? I mean,
18:57
Speaker 1: the facts are pretty clear that he gave her something
18:59
Speaker 1: and he did something to her, But the question whoa
19:02
Speaker 1: whoa hold on? Buddy, let's not put her a fume
19:06
Speaker 1: on the pig. Okay, Uh, he gave her something and
19:10
Speaker 1: did something. My my my, m mmmmmmmmm. That's what you
19:15
Speaker 1: call a euphemism. Um. Well, this is what is alleged,
19:19
Speaker 1: specifically that Bill Cosby drugged her with either quaaludes or
19:25
Speaker 1: as he says, Ben and drill right, and that she
19:30
Speaker 1: felt her legs and arms were quote frozen as he
19:35
Speaker 1: digitally raped her. Okay, now that we put the truth
19:39
Speaker 1: out there, what's hard about what's hard to understand about that?
19:42
Speaker 1: I understand it, Bam. What I think the question is
19:47
Speaker 1: what's the lawn? And first of all, what's the law.
19:51
Speaker 1: You're not supposed to rape people. I think I'm pretty
19:54
Speaker 1: sure that's the law. But if people can set to
19:57
Speaker 1: having sex, if they can set the things, then you
19:59
Speaker 1: are not guilty of rape. And that's what they're considering.
20:02
Speaker 1: This has been ala. How can you can say it
20:03
Speaker 1: when you want to lead? Hey, people take quayludes all
20:07
Speaker 1: the time. By content. People often agree to do things
20:09
Speaker 1: when they are interested in somebody, or they want other reasons.
20:13
Speaker 1: They want to say it wasn't my fault. They did things.
20:15
Speaker 1: There are lots of things for the jury, he admits
20:17
Speaker 1: he gave her. Then why then, why hasn't the jury convicted?
20:21
Speaker 1: And well, that's what I'm telling you. There's a reason
20:25
Speaker 1: that they're not convicting them. Yet they're questioning it. Some
20:27
Speaker 1: people don't believe her. Some people think, why did it
20:29
Speaker 1: take her so long? Why did it take so long
20:31
Speaker 1: to prosecute? Why is she now stand? And that I understand? Okay,
20:38
Speaker 1: well that's point one right now. I'm sure they have heard, however,
20:42
Speaker 1: from a sex assault expert as to why sex assault
20:47
Speaker 1: victims very often don't ever come forward, don't ever tell
20:50
Speaker 1: a single soul or why there is a delay in
20:53
Speaker 1: coming forward, or why there is a memory relapse. It's
20:57
Speaker 1: very common. If fact, I've had more rape victims that
21:00
Speaker 1: I've dealt with that have those problems that don't. I
21:04
Speaker 1: agree with you, Nancy. I think you know, part of
21:06
Speaker 1: the delay maybe that he has so much credibility. You know,
21:09
Speaker 1: the average person that comes in accused of rape, nobody
21:11
Speaker 1: knows who they are. There's somebody who looks maybe like
21:14
Speaker 1: what we think of criminal might look like, especially if
21:16
Speaker 1: they don't dress nice. This guy had about as much
21:19
Speaker 1: credibility as anybody that's ever been prosecuted in America, and
21:23
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta peel that back, and you've got
21:24
Speaker 1: to have people in the jury room talking to each
21:27
Speaker 1: other saying, doesn't matter that it's credible. You can argue
21:29
Speaker 1: all you want that a person as a person. As
21:31
Speaker 1: a person, everybody loved him, everybody belieped, and everybody wanted
21:35
Speaker 1: him to be the good guy because that was their image.
21:38
Speaker 1: You know, these things take time, and I don't think
21:40
Speaker 1: it's an easy prosecution by any means, and we're seeing
21:43
Speaker 1: that by four days of deliberation. Randy, you're absolutely right.
21:48
Speaker 1: And when you hear Kessler say they may not look
21:50
Speaker 1: like a rapist, they may not dress like a rapist.
21:54
Speaker 1: What he's talking about, I believe is the stereotypes, whether
21:58
Speaker 1: we record niys them or not, that are buried deep
22:04
Speaker 1: in our psyche. What you think a child Melista would
22:07
Speaker 1: look like, What you think a bank robbert would look like,
22:10
Speaker 1: what you think a dopadic would look like, what you
22:13
Speaker 1: think a rapist would look like. You wouldn't think they
22:16
Speaker 1: would look like a movie star. You've grown up with
22:19
Speaker 1: the creator of fat Albert that my children have watched.
22:23
Speaker 1: I mean, the whole thing, the whole kid and kaboodle.
22:28
Speaker 1: This is him. He's got his wife there of many years,
22:31
Speaker 1: dressed like old Grandma, coming in smiling, arm in arm.
22:37
Speaker 1: You've got him sitting there acting like Dr Huxtable. It's
22:43
Speaker 1: it's almost like somebody comes in and certainly tell you
22:45
Speaker 1: the truth about Santa Claus. It's not that he doesn't exist,
22:48
Speaker 1: it's that he was this bad. I mean, how long
22:50
Speaker 1: would it take to undo all the good feelings, good
22:52
Speaker 1: memories you have about Santa Claus. I mean, this guy
22:55
Speaker 1: had that kind of image and that kind of impression.
22:58
Speaker 1: It's hard to do, and it may not get and done.
23:00
Speaker 1: This may be the problem with the kids. You're you're
23:03
Speaker 1: you're right, and I'm not blind to your side. In fact,
23:10
Speaker 1: understanding your side, understanding the defense side is the only
23:15
Speaker 1: way to defeat the defense, and sometimes you can't. You
23:20
Speaker 1: cannot defeat decades of believing Bill Cosby is Dr Huxtable.
23:29
Speaker 1: I mean, and we only have one We only have
23:31
Speaker 1: one victim here. Had any of the other victims been
23:33
Speaker 1: allowed to process one? But one other one came in
23:37
Speaker 1: and that was Um Johnson. Kelly Johnson, and she was
23:41
Speaker 1: extremely upset, distraught, emotional on the stand, as juxtaposed against
23:47
Speaker 1: Andrew Constant, who was much more calm and even killed
23:51
Speaker 1: not totally, but much more. It is day four of deliberations,
23:57
Speaker 1: and I believe it will be a critical day of
23:59
Speaker 1: deliberate rations to establish whether funny man Bill Cosby committed
24:07
Speaker 1: a rape, whether this jury will be able to reach
24:10
Speaker 1: a verdict. Now, the juries reviewed a lot of evidence
24:14
Speaker 1: presented to it during the trial. They've had a lot
24:17
Speaker 1: of questions, at least four. The lady victim who accused
24:23
Speaker 1: Cosby of rape was as I said, calm and composed
24:28
Speaker 1: on the stand, but the defense spent most of its
24:32
Speaker 1: time on cross trying to establish inconsistencies and mistakes in
24:37
Speaker 1: her account. People don't want to believe a rape to
24:40
Speaker 1: start with. It's hard to believe it happened, especially under
24:44
Speaker 1: these circumstances without hard evidence like DNA, like bruising. We
24:49
Speaker 1: don't have that because it was so so much later
24:53
Speaker 1: and she was in denial. She tried to keep up
24:56
Speaker 1: appearances with a trustee member at Temple Universe City. So
25:00
Speaker 1: that's all a problem, right, Well, you know that's you're
25:03
Speaker 1: exactly right, and that's what the jury is wondering. And
25:06
Speaker 1: it looks like the defense made some success when the
25:08
Speaker 1: jury comes back and says, we want to know what
25:11
Speaker 1: you mean, judge when you say, without her knowledge or
25:14
Speaker 1: for the purpose of preventing resistance, that they're questioning her credibility,
25:18
Speaker 1: which is exactly what the defense wants to do. And
25:20
Speaker 1: had there been twenty or thirty victims testifying, you might
25:24
Speaker 1: have been able to peel back the credibility against Bill Cosby.
25:27
Speaker 1: But you know, it's it's very interesting that you have
25:29
Speaker 1: the credibility Bill Cosby versus the credibility of this witness,
25:32
Speaker 1: this victim, but he didn't testify, so you know, truthfully,
25:37
Speaker 1: how does the jury know that he's a credible person.
25:39
Speaker 1: They have to be remembering things from outside of what
25:42
Speaker 1: was presented in evidence, and that's a real problem for
25:44
Speaker 1: the prosecution. How do you undo all that this judge
25:49
Speaker 1: has been giving them readbacks and everything they've wanted. Some
25:53
Speaker 1: judge would have told them. Some judges would have told
25:56
Speaker 1: them to rely on their own collective recollect actions and
26:00
Speaker 1: their own individual recollections. He also has admonished them to concentrate.
26:07
Speaker 1: The judge Judge O'Neill dismissed them at their request around
26:11
Speaker 1: nine pm, sending them back to their hotel where they
26:14
Speaker 1: are sequestered, about three hundred miles away from their home.
26:19
Speaker 1: They were shipped in from Alleghany, from Allegheny County to
26:24
Speaker 1: hear this trial. Um, we're waiting. We're on standby, and
26:30
Speaker 1: I mean I wonder if the jury should have heard
26:33
Speaker 1: more of the fingerprint, which I mean when I say that,
26:36
Speaker 1: I mean almost identical similar transactions of nearly sixty women
26:43
Speaker 1: all claiming the same thing. This judge allowed one similar
26:48
Speaker 1: transaction in a prior alleged rape. Well, if there's not
26:55
Speaker 1: a if there's not a conviction, everybody will be pointing
26:57
Speaker 1: to that as as the big fault. Uh that let
27:00
Speaker 1: him off the hook. That's certainly, you know, it is
27:02
Speaker 1: how you peel back that credibility. That's how you show
27:04
Speaker 1: there are other people. But you know, I also think
27:06
Speaker 1: it's interesting the judge. I agree with you. A lot
27:08
Speaker 1: of judges would have just said, you rely on your recollection.
27:11
Speaker 1: Maybe the reason he let them hear the testimony again
27:14
Speaker 1: was because it's a big case. He's bending over backwards
27:18
Speaker 1: to prevent an appeal by either side. But once he
27:21
Speaker 1: did it once his decision, and I think I agree
27:24
Speaker 1: with him. Once he let them here one bit of
27:26
Speaker 1: testimony a second time, next time they ask, you have
27:29
Speaker 1: to let him do it again. Otherwise it sounds like
27:32
Speaker 1: that testimony was important. But the next question you ask
27:34
Speaker 1: is not important question to you? If there is a conviction,
27:39
Speaker 1: if do you think Cosby we'll get jail time? I
27:45
Speaker 1: think he's got to get jail time. I think that
27:47
Speaker 1: you know, this is the kind of crime that you know,
27:49
Speaker 1: how do you not give jail time? If we leave
27:51
Speaker 1: the decision up to the jury. You know Cosby probably
27:54
Speaker 1: was offered a plea deal, turned down the plea deal.
27:57
Speaker 1: When you turn down a plea deal and you go
27:58
Speaker 1: to and you go to court and you lose, you
28:01
Speaker 1: can't get away with not going to jail. Otherwise, who
28:04
Speaker 1: would ever take a plea deal if the chances were
28:06
Speaker 1: that you could not only lose the case but still
28:09
Speaker 1: avoid going to jail. He's old. I imagine he's going
28:12
Speaker 1: to have on the lighter end of the sentence, but
28:13
Speaker 1: it sounds like five years of the minimum. I think
28:16
Speaker 1: the real question is, as soon as it's pronounced in court,
28:18
Speaker 1: the drama moment will be does a judge revoke his
28:21
Speaker 1: bond and say, right now you're going to jail, Mr Cosby?
28:24
Speaker 1: Or does he let him stay out of jail pending bond.
28:27
Speaker 1: Then he could file appeals. You know, it could drag
28:28
Speaker 1: on and on and on. That that's me is gonna
28:30
Speaker 1: be the interesting question. Does he say, right now, remove
28:33
Speaker 1: Mr Cosby to the custody of the county sheriff and
28:35
Speaker 1: you know, and then we have our aha moment where
28:38
Speaker 1: nobody believed this would ever happen and it happens. Mhm.
28:43
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about if he did go to jail, what
28:46
Speaker 1: sort of prison, what sort of facility he would be in? Um,
28:51
Speaker 1: he's in his seventies. Now what do you think, Randy?
28:55
Speaker 1: Will that weight into it. I think that'll way into it.
28:58
Speaker 1: I think that That's why if I was the judge,
29:00
Speaker 1: I think I would leave him out on bail. He
29:03
Speaker 1: is not a danger to fly. No one's gonna know
29:05
Speaker 1: who is gonna danger a flight. I mean, this guy
29:08
Speaker 1: could probably owns a private planning to co be gone
29:11
Speaker 1: in a New York minute. And not only that, I
29:13
Speaker 1: would be concerned about another offense. I mean, when you
29:17
Speaker 1: don't know a horse. Look at his track record. This
29:19
Speaker 1: guy's like the energizer bunny. Oh well, these are allegations
29:23
Speaker 1: from years and years ago. But I don't I think
29:26
Speaker 1: if he was ever going to do something like that again.
29:28
Speaker 1: I think right after getting found guilty would probably be
29:31
Speaker 1: the very very last time that he would even think
29:32
Speaker 1: about doing stuff like that. And if he does, as
29:35
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think he should be treated any
29:37
Speaker 1: differently than any other rape defendants. So I'm voting for
29:40
Speaker 1: jail time. There, I said it. I said it with us. Also, Alan,
29:48
Speaker 1: do dud I hear you saying something in the background
29:51
Speaker 1: about the Cosby Show. Well, it occurred to me. I
29:54
Speaker 1: noticed somebody tweeted that A good observation. They've deliberated twenty
29:58
Speaker 1: eight hours so far, very long days. If they had
30:01
Speaker 1: wanted to, they could have watched the entire first two
30:04
Speaker 1: seasons of The Cosby Show in that amount of time.
30:07
Speaker 1: So just to put it in a perspective of how
30:09
Speaker 1: long these jurors in Pennsylvania are considering this case, and
30:14
Speaker 1: you are bringing up the Cosby Show in the middle
30:17
Speaker 1: of Cosby's right trial, because well, because that's how we
30:21
Speaker 1: know him. At least that's the big thing, Dr Huxtable.
30:25
Speaker 1: Have you not been listening? We're talking about Dr dr Huxtable.
30:30
Speaker 1: So I mean, what are you doing? What what? I'm
30:34
Speaker 1: just saying that it's been horse sofa on top of
30:39
Speaker 1: your shag carpet and just like Cadelic wall paintings just
30:43
Speaker 1: down the street from the Playboy mansion. Yes, yes, it
30:47
Speaker 1: was Dr Huxtable. Get with it, man. Well my point
30:50
Speaker 1: is twenty eight hours. These jurors are going very long days.
30:54
Speaker 1: I think though, today is the day. I really believe that. Okay,
30:59
Speaker 1: there you have from the source, the expert, Alan, the
31:03
Speaker 1: Duke Duke, joining us from his penthouse in l A. Okay.
31:07
Speaker 1: He has, you know, a psychic connection to this Pennsylvania courtroom,
31:11
Speaker 1: and he says, today's the day. Actually, you know what,
31:14
Speaker 1: I think you may be right? Okay, Nancy Grace Crime
31:18
Speaker 1: Stories signing off Kessler, We will meet another day, my
31:22
Speaker 1: friend Alan. Thank you, goodbye friend. H