Latest / The Love Lab Podcast: Sex | Love | Relationship / Modern Dating Problems And How To Fix Them

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Modern Dating Problems And How To Fix Them · The Love Lab Podcast: Sex | Love | Relationship

• 0:05
  Kevin Anthony: Welcome to the Love Lab podcast, the place to
• 0:08
  be for honest and real talk about relationships and sex.
• 0:12
  Whether you're a man or woman, single or couple, this is the
• 0:15
  show for you. I am your host, Kevin Anthony, and I am here to
• 0:18
  help you have the relationship of your dreams and the best sex
• 0:22
  of your life.
• 0:26
  All right, welcome back to the Love Lab podcast. This is
• 0:29
  episode 419, and it is titled "Modern Dating Problems and How
• 0:34
  to Fix Them. I hear from a lot of people, not just clients, but
• 0:39
  obviously clients, but people in the comments on my YouTube
• 0:44
  videos, people commenting on podcasts, and many friends of
• 0:49
  mine, and a lot of people are really struggling with dating
• 0:53
  these days. It's just something that I hear so, so often that I
• 0:59
  thought, even though I don't do a ton of dating content on this
• 1:02
  show, it's part of relationships, right? It's part
• 1:06
  of sexuality. Like it's all sort of woven together, and I know
• 1:10
  there are a lot of people out there who are dating and are
• 1:13
  really struggling with it. So today we're going to talk about
• 1:17
  modern dating problems and how we can potentially fix them.
• 1:21
  We're going to talk about the challenges that people tend to
• 1:23
  have in the dating space in these modern times because
• 1:27
  they're different than the challenges that people used to
• 1:29
  face. We're going to talk about online dating and some of the
• 1:33
  challenges with that, and potentially how people can do
• 1:35
  that better. We want to talk about some red flags to look out
• 1:39
  for when dating, and a whole bunch more. I got a bunch more
• 1:43
  questions I want to ask the guest today. So if you're
• 1:46
  watching on YouTube, obviously you can see I have a guest who
• 1:49
  I'll introduce in just a moment. And if you're listening, well, I
• 1:53
  have a great guest today who's going to help us unpack all of
• 1:56
  this.
• 1:56
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  That's kevinanthanycoaching.com forward slash go forward slash
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  app. That link, of course, is in the description.
• 2:56
  So my guest today is Robin Ducharme, and she is the founder
• 2:59
  and CEO of Real Love Ready, a former matchmaker and love
• 3:03
  coach. She's the host of Real Love Ready, the series, an audio
• 3:07
  and video podcast exploring relational literacy through
• 3:10
  conversations on love, connection, and personal growth.
• 3:13
  She's also the creator and producer of the popular In Bloom
• 3:17
  Summit, where she brings together internationally
• 3:19
  recognized relationship experts, authors, and thought leaders
• 3:23
  each spring in Vancouver, BC, and online. Her book, *Real Love
• 3:28
  Ready: A Guide to Relational Literacy*, is a clear,
• 3:30
  compassionate guide to knowledge, skills, and daily
• 3:33
  practices that help us love with greater intention, truth, and
• 3:37
  heart. Welcome to the show, Robin.
• 3:40
  Robin Ducharme: Thank you, thank you for having me, Kevin.
• 3:43
  Kevin Anthony: You're welcome. I think we're going to have a fun
• 3:45
  conversation today.
• 3:47
  Robin Ducharme: Let's do it. I I want to have fun as we talk
• 3:50
  about dating and love. Let's do this.
• 3:52
  Kevin Anthony: You know, especially when it comes to
• 3:55
  dating and love, we've got to have some fun with it. I think a
• 3:58
  lot of people take it way too seriously, and we've got to at
• 4:01
  least be able to laugh at it here and there and have some fun
• 4:04
  with it.
• 4:05
  Robin Ducharme: I think you make a really good point, Kevin. I
• 4:08
  think you know we can get lost in conversations about how hard
• 4:12
  dating is, and how hard it is to meet, you know, quality people.
• 4:17
  And there's way more single women than single men, and you
• 4:21
  know, a lot of this consciousness that it's not
• 4:25
  really feeding what we want, right? And bringing more levity
• 4:30
  and fun and joy into dating. Yeah.
• 4:34
  Kevin Anthony: Well, I hope we do at least a little bit of that
• 4:37
  today. Obviously, we have to talk about some of the serious
• 4:39
  aspects too, but we'll get some laughs in for sure. All right,
• 4:44
  let's start with, you know, the title of the show is Modern
• 4:48
  Dating Problems, right? And of course, how to fix them. So,
• 4:51
  what are some of the problems? What are some of the challenges
• 4:54
  that people face today? Because things have changed so much from
• 4:58
  when I was younger. Or from my parents' generation, and I mean,
• 5:03
  we're not even on the same planet as my grandparents'
• 5:05
  generation when it comes to dating. So, what are some of the
• 5:08
  challenges people face today?
• 5:11
  Robin Ducharme: I think you know a lot of what I'm hearing around
• 5:15
  dating is that people know they've got success stories
• 5:21
  around them of people who have met online, but a lot of us are
• 5:25
  still really online during the day for work. I know I am. Like,
• 5:31
  I'm on my computer a lot during the day, and we're doing Zoom
• 5:35
  meetings. Some of us are working in an office, but really not a
• 5:38
  lot of us since COVID, and so it's almost like this thing. And
• 5:45
  now you expect me to do online dating? I don't want to do that.
• 5:48
  Or I've had, you know, I don't even know where to start when it
• 5:51
  comes to online dating. So I think there's online dating
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  burnout. That is something that I'm absolutely hearing from the
• 5:57
  love coaches, the matchmakers, the date coaches that are
• 6:00
  actually doing this for a living, helping people. It's
• 6:02
  just like I don't want to do this online. So there's almost
• 6:05
  now this like pushback or pulling back from that in
• 6:11
  itself. And if you're not going to be online dating, well, then
• 6:14
  where exactly are you going to meet other people to date? So
• 6:19
  it's like both problems. You know, there are two things that
• 6:22
  are going on at once. It's like, okay, if I'm not doing online
• 6:24
  dating, where do I start? And if I and but if I have to do it, I
• 6:27
  don't want to. Are you hearing the same thing, Kevin? Because
• 6:30
  that's those are the two things.
• 6:32
  Kevin Anthony: I'm definitely hearing the online dating
• 6:35
  burnout for sure. But what I find interesting, though, from
• 6:40
  what I hear and the people I talk to, is that they'll tell me
• 6:43
  that they're tired. They've swiped until there's nothing
• 6:46
  left to swipe. They've tried, you know, five different dating
• 6:50
  apps, and it's the same thing. Eventually they just swipe till
• 6:53
  there's nothing left to swipe. They're not meeting quality
• 6:56
  people. The people they meet aren't who they say they are,
• 6:59
  and like all these other things. But here's the main difference
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  that I hear. I think I think at least anyway from what you said,
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  and that is that they rarely ever say, like Where else can I
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  meet people. They just go I don't know what to do. That's
• 7:13
  what I'm hearing. I'm like, I'm frustrated with online dating,
• 7:16
  and I don't know what to do. And you know, we'll get into
• 7:19
  solutions and what they can do later on. I don't want to go too
• 7:22
  get too far ahead of ourselves, but I just often think to
• 7:26
  myself, "What do you mean you don't know what to do? We know
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  there's more that exists than just online dating, but anyway,
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  that's mostly what I hear.
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  Robin Ducharme: Yeah, me too, really. I think when it comes
• 7:45
  down to it, so much of what I've thought about in myself because
• 7:50
  I'm newly single. I went through a breakup with my last partner
• 7:57
  just a few months ago, so I'm not this person that's out there
• 8:02
  seeking partnership. I really want to spend some time by
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  myself and go through the seasons and all the, you know,
• 8:10
  all you know, the year. Let's just say, like, that's what I've
• 8:13
  kind of set for myself. But when I do go back into wanting to be
• 8:18
  with a partner, I'm gonna really set some clear intentions around
• 8:22
  that, and kind of a plan, and where, you know, sometimes when
• 8:27
  we do have goals, like, particularly finding a partner,
• 8:29
  which I think is one of the most important decisions we're gonna
• 8:33
  make, is who we're gonna decide to share our life with. What
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  what what other important decisions are there?
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  There's that's that I think that's one of the top ones, you
• 8:42
  know. So I hope we've got some really clear intentions around
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  that, and kind of a plan, you know, asking people around me,
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  who do you know that's a really good man that you can recommend,
• 8:55
  and I'm, and I want to be asking a lot of people in my life that
• 8:59
  I trust, that I have a good relationship with, that know me,
• 9:02
  you know, and I think, you know, we're going down solutions. But
• 9:07
  I, you know, I just think that there are ways that we can come
• 9:10
  about it really intentionally.
• 9:12
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, and we'll definitely dive more into that
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  as we go along. Before we do that, though, I want to address
• 9:18
  some of the other concerns that I do hear from people, because
• 9:22
  obviously the burnout, the fatigue of online dating, is by
• 9:26
  far the biggest one that I hear, but it's not the only one that I
• 9:30
  hear. So another thing that I often hear is that the people
• 9:35
  aren't who they represent themselves to be online. So you
• 9:39
  know, they write these profiles. They've got all these photos in
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  there, and then they show up, and it's like, is that wait, is
• 9:49
  that even you, right? Or, you know, the things that maybe they
• 9:52
  wrote in their profile aren't exactly true, or maybe they
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  represented that they were looking. For a long-term
• 10:00
  commitment, but it turns out all they really wanted was a hookup.
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  So, and that's another big one I see. What do you think about
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  that?
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  Robin Ducharme: Well, I think that's happening, Kevin. I mean,
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  if you're hearing people say that, and I know I've definitely
• 10:12
  heard that too, it's happening. There are people who are using
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  online dating without integrity, so let's just name it for what
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  it is, right? It's like you're going to be faking your age, or
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  your pictures are 10 years old, or you're saying, like you said,
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  like somebody's saying that they want to be in a long-term
• 10:34
  partnership, but they're actually just they just want to
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  mess around, you know? They're not in for the serious for
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  serious partnership or long-term. So I think it's just
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  naming the reality that there's going to be a mixed bag of
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  people who are online dating, you know, and it's just I guess,
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  just the reality of it, you know.
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  Kevin Anthony: I was a guest on somebody else's podcast
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  yesterday, and one of the things the host on that show was saying
• 10:58
  was that she was seeing because she's dating, also, she was
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  seeing that there were a lot of men on the dating sites who are
• 11:07
  actually in relationships, but they're either looking for that
• 11:12
  unicorn to come join the relationship, or they're not
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  necessarily being honest with their other half that they're
• 11:18
  actually on the dating sites. So that's another. Either way,
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  Robin Ducharme: Either way, it's just complete dishonesty. You
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  know, just talking about myself personally and coming out of a
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  relationship where the person I was with, you know, there was a
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  lot of there was things definitely in the end that I was
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  discovering he was keeping from me. There was deception. There
• 11:41
  was withholding of important information, and you know what
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  this points to, Kevin, is the fact that, you know, there's
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  going to be bumps along the road here. You know, for people like
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  if somebody meets their partner on a first date, like online
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  dating, let's just say, and they discover, all right, this is my
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  person, and I didn't really have to go through many, many dates
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  to find them, then kudos to you.
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  But there are a lot of people out there that have been at it
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  for months or even years, and they're still on that path.
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  They're like, I am not going to give up because I really do want
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  to share my life with somebody. You know, the trials and
• 12:15
  tribulations might come along, but I think what all this points
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  to, Kevin, is how we show up. It's all we can control, really.
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  You know, it's like being aware and being a realist about the
• 12:27
  world that we live in. And there might be people that you even
• 12:31
  partner with, or you're dating for, let's say, months or years
• 12:34
  at a time, that show up as somebody that you actually don't
• 12:38
  want to share your life with. And so I really emphasize taking
• 12:43
  time to get to know somebody. You know, are they showing up in
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  integrity? Are they being honest? Are they actually in
• 12:51
  your corner? You know, and you're not going to know that.
• 12:54
  You're not going to know if this person is doing all of these
• 12:57
  things that you're aligned with until you've spent time with
• 13:00
  them.
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  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, I completely agree with getting to
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  know somebody. But I want to come back to another point that
• 13:07
  you made. You said that the only thing you can really control is
• 13:09
  yourself, which is true, right? And you know, one of the things,
• 13:14
  one of the notes I have here under the challenges that people
• 13:16
  are facing these days is I wrote being themselves, right? Because
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  another thing that you often see out there, and this is true
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  whether it's online dating or any sort of dating, is that
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  people will go out there and they want to put on this facade
• 13:33
  of a persona. Yeah, this persona of who they are to impress the
• 13:38
  other person, and I never recommend that people do this
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  because if it's not who you genuinely are, you're not going
• 13:46
  to be able to keep it up long term. You might even keep it up
• 13:49
  for a year or two years, but eventually, the real you
• 13:52
  underneath that mask is going to surface. And if it's not who you
• 13:56
  represented yourself to be, your partner is not going to be happy
• 14:00
  about that, and your relationship is unlikely to
• 14:02
  last.
• 14:04
  Robin Ducharme: Yeah, and I think that right there is solid
• 14:06
  advice. I mean, we just want to show up in our fullness, and you
• 14:11
  know, one of like a lot of that comes down to really doing an
• 14:14
  inventory of where you're at in your life. You know, like what
• 14:19
  you really do have to offer and to bring to that partnership. I
• 14:25
  see, you know, I see relationships so differently as
• 14:27
  time goes on. It's like I have a full life. I have I I have
• 14:34
  children that I'm still raising. I've got a career that I'm very
• 14:38
  invested in. My relationships with my family and my friends
• 14:42
  are like coveted in my life. Okay, so this is a lot that I
• 14:46
  want to honor, protect, and revere. That I revere, and I'm
• 14:51
  not going to just, like, offer that to another person until,
• 14:55
  like, you know, it's almost like the trust has to be built, the
• 14:58
  safety has to be. Like it's like it's like wading into the pool
• 15:03
  very slowly. Can this person, you know, show me, you know,
• 15:07
  wading in, wading in? Okay, yeah, I can show them this part
• 15:10
  of myself. I can share this part of myself. I can share this part
• 15:12
  of myself. It's not all in, you know, from the beginning, but
• 15:18
  it's also showing up on these dates, going like, I have a lot
• 15:21
  to offer, and I'm going to see, you know, who you are, and get
• 15:25
  to know you over time to see if you're somebody that's actually,
• 15:29
  you know, worthy of of actually of of me sharing this with you
• 15:34
  myself, and vice versa.
• 15:37
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, there are two important things that you
• 15:39
  brought up there. One is basically creating safety,
• 15:42
  right? So as you're getting to know somebody, you're taking it
• 15:46
  slowly. You're getting to know them, and you're gradually
• 15:49
  revealing, you know, deeper and deeper levels of who you are to
• 15:52
  this person. And I think that that is a wise way to do it,
• 15:55
  rather than just like I'm an open book. Here's everything all
• 15:58
  at once, because you don't know who this person is yet, right?
• 16:01
  You don't really know. You know who they're presenting
• 16:03
  themselves to be, and then I think the other part of that is,
• 16:08
  you know, people always say, as I said, they put on this persona
• 16:12
  because they want to impress the person, but the reality is, you
• 16:16
  know, I always tell people, like, I'm going to come out
• 16:19
  there if I hold certain beliefs or ideas or whatever, like I'm
• 16:23
  laying them out on the table right from the start.
• 16:24
  Because if you don't agree with those things and there isn't
• 16:27
  compatibility here, I want to know right now. And I'm out of
• 16:31
  here, right? Because I'm not going to waste time, you know,
• 16:34
  trying to create a relationship with somebody who's not in the
• 16:37
  same place as I am. In other words, we don't share the same
• 16:40
  values, right? That's a good one. Or we don't have the same
• 16:44
  goals in life. Or now, granted, we're not going to know
• 16:47
  everything, but like some of the big things, it's important to
• 16:50
  show like who you are right up front, so that people know and
• 16:55
  they can make good decisions, and you can make good decisions
• 16:57
  about who they are. And when two people show up and they're just
• 17:00
  pretending to be somebody else. It's like you have no idea
• 17:04
  what's going to happen.
• 17:06
  Robin Ducharme: Yeah, you know I I just kind of keep pointing
• 17:10
  back to my last relationship and the one before that. It's just
• 17:13
  like I've had two relationships where there was a lot of
• 17:16
  performance, you know, and for a long time. So that is going to
• 17:22
  put me on, just like, you know what? I'm going to be way more
• 17:25
  cautious and way more careful the next time. Absolutely, you
• 17:30
  know, it's like I, you know, I have a lot to protect in myself,
• 17:37
  my children, my life, and I know that sounds like, oh, Robin's
• 17:41
  going to be on the defense. It's not like that at all. It's more
• 17:44
  just like you show me, you show me who you are, and you know the
• 17:48
  only way that we're going to be shown is words are important.
• 17:52
  It's actions, Kevin. How are you? You're showing me. You're
• 17:56
  telling me you're this way, and I want to. I'm going to be
• 17:59
  watching, and I'm going to be seeing if you're showing in how
• 18:02
  you're treating me, in treating others, and how you're actually,
• 18:06
  you know, being completely like being honest and truthful in how
• 18:09
  you're living your life.
• 18:10
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, you know, and I think some people may hear
• 18:13
  that and go, "Oh my God, I'm being watched every moment.
• 18:15
  Like, this sounds crazy. Like, what if I make a mistake or this
• 18:18
  and that?
• 18:19
  Unknown: And we all make mistakes.
• 18:20
  Kevin Anthony: Of course we do, and to that I would just say,
• 18:22
  here's the thing, though, you know, if you're being genuine,
• 18:26
  it's easy. It's not hard at all, right? This is the thing all the
• 18:31
  time. It's like, you know, people are always worried about,
• 18:33
  like, what if I contradict myself or blah blah. That only
• 18:37
  really happens when you're lying. Exactly. If you're just
• 18:41
  telling the truth, then you're not going to contradict
• 18:44
  yourself. You're not going to tell two different sides of the
• 18:46
  story. You're not going to get caught in weird things that
• 18:49
  don't seem to make sense or line up, right? Because you're being
• 18:52
  honest.
• 18:54
  Robin Ducharme: Yes, and you're only going to know that when
• 18:57
  you're dating somebody for an extended period of time. You
• 19:00
  know, really,
• 19:02
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, and you know that's an interesting thing
• 19:05
  too. I think we might have talked about this actually in
• 19:09
  the pre-interview, but years ago, when my wife was alive,
• 19:13
  there was in our little friend circle in the community, there
• 19:16
  was this kind of weird thing that happened where all these
• 19:20
  couples got together, and they were like in that boat of 100%
• 19:25
  all in right from the start. This is my person. This is
• 19:28
  amazing. Like getting married within a month of meeting each
• 19:33
  other, having kids immediately, like planning all these big life
• 19:37
  things. And I remember my wife and I, we, you know, we were a
• 19:40
  little older than most of them. At least I was, anyway. I
• 19:44
  remember going. I don't think this is going to end well. I'm
• 19:48
  like, I mean, I'm happy for them. They look like they're so
• 19:52
  happy, and their outward appearances. They look like
• 19:55
  they're pretty compatible, but I'm pretty sure this isn't going
• 19:58
  to end well. Well, fast. Forward only a few years from there, and
• 20:03
  out of the I think it was four or five couples that got
• 20:06
  together like this; only one was still together a few years
• 20:10
  later, and the rest crashed and burned. Some of which crashed
• 20:15
  and burned in some pretty, really not good ways, and
• 20:18
  Robin Ducharme: Yes.
• 20:19
  Kevin Anthony: The reason is because they didn't take that
• 20:22
  time to actually get to know who each other was.
• 20:26
  Robin Ducharme: Yes, right. This is a common problem. You know. I
• 20:33
  also hear so much, and this, you know, when I was working as a
• 20:36
  love coach and matchmaker, people would be writing each
• 20:39
  other off a lot of times on the first date, and trust me, Kevin,
• 20:43
  I understand. Okay, like there have been times when, you know,
• 20:46
  I've dated. I dated a little bit before I met my last partner,
• 20:51
  like maybe three men. It wasn't a lot before I met him, so it
• 20:54
  wasn't like I was dating, you know, countless people. But on
• 21:00
  both of those occasions, the two men that I dated before my last
• 21:02
  partner, I was curious enough to have a second date, and some and
• 21:06
  the other men, like three dates, maybe four. And before, I was
• 21:09
  like, no, not for me. So I was able to give somebody a chance
• 21:13
  because it wasn't like a complete write-off. I understand
• 21:16
  there's a complete, like, you're not for me. Sometimes you're
• 21:19
  like, but I also think it's like you are probably not going to
• 21:24
  know if the person is your person on the first date.
• 21:27
  So giving people a chance to show themselves to you, right?
• 21:32
  There's good conversation. You can banter back and forth. You
• 21:36
  feel pretty comfortable around this person. There's curiosity
• 21:39
  there. There's enough to take it to, you know, the next time you
• 21:44
  see them for an hour or two hours, right? Give them more
• 21:48
  time and space. So, you know, it just points to how we show up in
• 21:56
  in really in our seriousness around this. It's like you're
• 21:59
  not going to write somebody off just because there are fireworks
• 22:02
  flying on the first date,
• 22:04
  Kevin Anthony: You know, that's another subject that I hear a
• 22:07
  lot, and I've talked about this many times on the show where
• 22:11
  people confuse chemistry with compatibility, and I have seen
• 22:16
  this so many times where, you know, you know, somebody will
• 22:20
  come to me and say, "Yeah, I met this guy, and you know, I mean,
• 22:25
  he's really nice. He's got this great job, and you know, he
• 22:28
  treated me really nice, and he, you know, paid for dinner, and
• 22:32
  he brought me flowers and all that. But I don't know. I just,
• 22:36
  just don't feel any chemistry with him, right? But then, if
• 22:40
  you know this person, either worked with them as their coach,
• 22:44
  as I have, or just know them as a friend- because I've heard
• 22:47
  this from both sides. I know the patterns because I've seen them
• 22:51
  date multiple people over time, and I can clearly see that they
• 22:57
  are mistaking chemistry for compatibility.
• 22:59
  So they feel a chemistry, a sexual chemistry, a physical
• 23:03
  attraction, but it's almost always to somebody who is
• 23:07
  absolutely not the right person for them for a dozen different
• 23:12
  reasons that we don't have time to go into in this show. But
• 23:15
  then when they meet somebody who, if you if you know who they
• 23:19
  are or if they know themselves and they know what they're
• 23:21
  actually looking for, and you see this person, you're like,
• 23:24
  "No, this is no guarantee. But technically, on paper, they line
• 23:28
  up with all the things you say you actually want. Yet your
• 23:31
  response is, "I don't feel any chemistry. I'm not going to go
• 23:34
  out on a second date with them because they didn't give them
• 23:37
  the chance that you were just talking about.
• 23:40
  Robin Ducharme: Exactly, exactly. Esther Perel says it,
• 23:42
  you know, so well. She says, "There's people that there are
• 23:46
  many people in this world that you can be attracted to, even
• 23:49
  love, but not as many, not even close people that you can share
• 23:55
  life with. So, just even understanding that, you know,
• 23:59
  you can go out there and meet somebody, and you're having a
• 24:01
  great time. You could be dating, you know, five or six dates with
• 24:04
  this person. You guys can just party and just laugh and have a.
• 24:07
  But at the end of the day, are they somebody that actually is
• 24:10
  going to be a good life partner for you? There's a big
• 24:13
  difference, and that's the difference between, you know,
• 24:15
  looking for all the chemistry and all the fireworks compared
• 24:18
  to compatibility, which is like more like this is foundational.
• 24:22
  These are things that, like, this person is going to honor me
• 24:25
  in my fullness and my life, and we're going to share our lives.
• 24:28
  Like, that's a big deal, right? Mending, melding, melding, or
• 24:33
  bringing together two lives. That's not an easy thing to do,
• 24:36
  you know.
• 24:37
  Kevin Anthony: That's true. You know, it's one of the biggest
• 24:39
  things I do whenever I'm working with somebody, a client who is
• 24:42
  single and is, you know, having trouble in the dating space.
• 24:46
  This is one of the biggest things I help them with: is
• 24:49
  understanding what is truly important in a long-term, you
• 24:55
  know, mutually fulfilling relationship, because so many of
• 24:59
  them. Think it's that chemistry thing, and they're not looking
• 25:02
  for the right quality, so they're out there dating, right?
• 25:05
  And they're choosing who to go out on dates with and who to
• 25:08
  continue dating, based on the wrong set of criteria. So it's
• 25:12
  helping them see, like, okay, you know, you say you want a
• 25:16
  long-term, happy, stable relationship, but the criteria
• 25:18
  you're judging on is, do I have chemistry? You know, is it the?
• 25:25
  I mean, this good sex is a good thing, but you know, that's kind
• 25:29
  of like the only thing. They're like, oh, well, they're fun to
• 25:31
  be with, and we have chemistry, and like the sex is good.
• 25:34
  Okay, great, but you know, do you share the same values? Do
• 25:39
  you have the same goals? Okay, you got the sex part. That's
• 25:42
  good. That's another important part. You know, do you both want
• 25:45
  the same things out of a relationship in life? You know,
• 25:48
  how about kids? Right, for people who are younger. Like, I
• 25:51
  mean, that's a huge thing that needs to come into the
• 25:53
  conversation. Right. Where do you stand with that? Do you want
• 25:55
  kids? Do you not?
• 25:57
  All that kind of stuff. And they're completely overlooking
• 26:00
  all of those deeper, more important things and focusing
• 26:03
  purely on-it's like sometimes I feel like it's like they're in
• 26:07
  high school. I'm like, you've got to get past the high school
• 26:10
  dating. Like, you're an adult now, right? You've got to start
• 26:13
  looking for the things that really make a quality
• 26:16
  relationship. So we often spend a lot of time just helping
• 26:20
  people understand, like, what should you be looking for in a
• 26:23
  partner? If you say you want a long-term relationship, if you
• 26:27
  say you want to get married, right? If you say you want
• 26:30
  somebody to spend the rest of your life with, well, what does
• 26:33
  that take?
• 26:34
  Robin Ducharme: Exactly. Yeah, you're looking at what we're
• 26:38
  prioritizing. What are the most important things? And it's
• 26:43
  certainly not putting all of the onus or all of the emphasis on
• 26:49
  sexual chemistry.
• 26:51
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, or even looks. You know, I worked with a
• 26:53
  client not that long ago last year who had a history. I mean,
• 26:59
  he's very tall, and he had a history of dating like
• 27:04
  five-foot-four blonde women who weighed like 120 pounds. Like,
• 27:09
  that was his type. Like all his ex-girlfriends, of course, none
• 27:12
  of those relationships worked out. And then he meets this
• 27:16
  woman who's, I don't know, probably about 510, and he's six
• 27:20
  three, so it's actually quite good. Not blonde, right? Just
• 27:25
  completely different, but a truly amazing woman who owns her
• 27:31
  own company, is very successful, open to, you know, learning new
• 27:37
  things and changing and growing and all of that kind of stuff.
• 27:40
  And I just watched him sabotage all over the place because she
• 27:44
  didn't fit his traditional idea, right?
• 27:48
  Of what he's used to, and it's just one of those things where I
• 27:51
  say, okay, but how many relationships have you had like
• 27:54
  that that didn't work out? Do you think maybe you might want
• 27:59
  to look for something a little bit different? Here you have
• 28:03
  this person with all these amazing qualities, and the
• 28:05
  qualities you say that you're looking for, but you're not
• 28:09
  taking advantage of it because you have some other idea in your
• 28:12
  head.
• 28:13
  Robin Ducharme: Yeah, at the end of the day, there are a lot of
• 28:16
  people in this predicament. They have a type, and what I invite
• 28:23
  people to be open to is that there are many people in the
• 28:29
  world that you can be attracted to, and to narrow it down to
• 28:35
  physical traits that you need to have in a partner in order for
• 28:39
  you to be with them, it's really narrowing. It's it's just like
• 28:42
  closing the gap. It's just like, no. Why would you do that,
• 28:46
  right? Like, you know, there are so many women. They're like, I
• 28:48
  have to have a man that's six feet tall. Well, guess what? The
• 28:51
  majority of men are like five-nine and under. Like, if
• 28:55
  you act like it's true. Like, so, then you're taking out the
• 28:58
  norm. You're taking out the, like, the median height of men
• 29:01
  in the world, so why would you actually do that, right?
• 29:05
  It's not serving you, and it's really opening our perspective,
• 29:10
  opening our minds, and actually paying more attention to their
• 29:13
  character. There's nothing you know. That's where we really
• 29:16
  need to focus: their character, their behaviors, and their
• 29:19
  actions, how they walk through the world, you know? Are they
• 29:22
  kind? Are they considerate? Not just considerate of people
• 29:27
  around you. Well, you know, you can see, but you're considerate
• 29:31
  of your feelings. Are they actually listening when you're
• 29:34
  speaking and taking in and learning about you, so that you
• 29:38
  can actually have a flow, you know, of communication and start
• 29:43
  to create that connection that you're wanting? You know, there
• 29:47
  are so many things that are much more important in a partnership
• 29:51
  than a physical type.
• 29:53
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, that reminds me of, and I don't
• 29:55
  remember what it was called. Maybe one of the listeners will
• 29:57
  remember, but there was a podcast out there, a fairly big
• 30:01
  one, where this guy would have all these women on, and he'd
• 30:05
  usually have like six or eight of them on at a time, right? And
• 30:09
  he like he's at the center of the table, and they're lining up
• 30:11
  down the sides of the table, and they're all in the room
• 30:14
  together, and he's asking them questions about what it is
• 30:18
  they're looking for in a man, right? Like, what does he have
• 30:21
  to have in order for them to date him? And overwhelmingly,
• 30:25
  all of these women are like, he needs to be over six feet tall.
• 30:29
  He needs to make, you know, like x6 figure salary. He needs to
• 30:33
  have this kind of car. He needs to have this kind of job title.
• 30:35
  And so he lets them say all of these things, and then he reads
• 30:39
  the statistics like you were just sharing, and shows them
• 30:44
  that the requirements that they have, aside from being
• 30:47
  superficial, are a whole other thing. But aside from being
• 30:50
  superficial, the requirements they have for this man have just
• 30:54
  now eliminated about 95% of all the men in the dating pool.
• 31:00
  Robin Ducharme: Right, exactly. So how is like none of that
• 31:04
  makes sense, right? And then we've got, I think there's this
• 31:09
  confusion that people have around online dating: that
• 31:12
  there's, you know, it's like this buffet of people, right? So
• 31:17
  if that person isn't a match, then I can just swipe. I'm just
• 31:20
  going to swipe past that person, rather than, let's just say
• 31:24
  somebody has a really good write-up, and it sounds like,
• 31:27
  yeah, they sound like they're looking for the same things that
• 31:30
  I am. This could possibly be somebody that I'm interested in
• 31:34
  talking to, but they're not exactly my physical type, right?
• 31:38
  I just think to swipe to the next. Well, I think it's just
• 31:43
  more about entering into having a having a more open mindset,
• 31:49
  for sure.
• 31:50
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah. So we're about halfway through the show.
• 31:53
  I'm going to take a short break, but when we come back, I want to
• 31:57
  talk about online dating and how people could use these apps a
• 32:01
  little bit better. We've touched on some of these things already,
• 32:04
  but I want to kind of pull it together in a more concise
• 32:08
  manner for people. Like, here are some things that you could
• 32:11
  really do to make this experience better. I also want
• 32:14
  to talk about some red flags for dating, and then of course I
• 32:17
  want to finish off with, you know, some really solid advice
• 32:21
  on how people can date better, whether it's online dating or
• 32:25
  not, and give them some alternatives to the online
• 32:28
  dating space as well.
• 32:29
  So we'll do that on the other side of this break. If your
• 32:33
  relationship feels disconnected, if your sex life has lost its
• 32:36
  spark, or if you just know something needs to change, then
• 32:39
  relationship and intimacy coaching can help. I have
• 32:42
  created transformational coaching programs for men,
• 32:45
  women, and couples, all designed to help you create deeper
• 32:48
  intimacy, better communication, and the kind of passionate
• 32:51
  relationship you actually want. Whether you're struggling with
• 32:54
  intimacy, confidence, desire, emotional connection, or
• 32:58
  recurring relationship challenges, you don't have to
• 33:00
  figure it out alone. The best place to start is with a free
• 33:03
  strategy call, where we'll talk through your challenges, get
• 33:06
  clarity on what's really going on, and create a personalized
• 33:10
  plan for moving forward. Go to kevinantonycoaching.com today to
• 33:15
  book your free strategy call with me. That's
• 33:16
  kevinanthanycoaching.com to book your free strategy call. I
• 33:21
  recently just redid all of my sales pages for my men's,
• 33:24
  women's, and couples coaching program. So if you've looked at
• 33:27
  it before, please go look at it again because I think it does a
• 33:31
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• 33:35
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• 33:38
  that out, read those pages, and if it resonates with you, sign
• 33:42
  up for a strategy call. Doesn't cost you anything.
• 33:47
  Okay, so I said that we were on the other side of the break. We
• 33:52
  were going to talk about how people could potentially do
• 33:55
  better on the online dating app. So I have a list of five things
• 34:00
  here that people could potentially do better, but I
• 34:03
  want to start with you. What are some pieces of advice you have
• 34:07
  for people who are on online dating apps that would help them
• 34:11
  be able to use these apps more effectively?
• 34:15
  Robin Ducharme: So the first thing is just how you want to
• 34:20
  present yourselves to potential partners, and I think it's
• 34:27
  important that people invest time and effort into really
• 34:33
  making a nice, really good online profile. It's like
• 34:38
  putting your best foot forward. You know, I say the same thing
• 34:41
  about a first date. It's not about getting dressed to the
• 34:44
  nines and getting a blowout, all the things, spending a whole
• 34:47
  bunch of money. But you want to show up, you know, looking
• 34:51
  you're looking really good and feeling good about yourself,
• 34:54
  right?
• 34:55
  And I think the same thing goes with online profiles. I've seen
• 34:58
  so many online profiles where it's just like. Somebody
• 35:00
  just-it's like cut and paste, man. It's like, and they hardly
• 35:03
  put any thought into what they're writing about
• 35:06
  themselves, or their pictures aren't great. Like, it doesn't
• 35:10
  take a lot to get some really good photos. You can have a
• 35:13
  friend come over. You can have your child, if they're you know,
• 35:17
  take some you know a teenager, whatever, whatever. Somebody
• 35:19
  that's really savvy with technology, and you put some
• 35:22
  nice clothes on, put some makeup on. If it's if you're if you're
• 35:25
  female, if you're a woman, and if a man, it's like you want to
• 35:27
  be dressed nicely and have some good photos. And I really think
• 35:32
  that this is important because how many profiles have I looked
• 35:34
  at? I'm like, oh my gosh, there's like selfies, and a lot
• 35:38
  of men do this, and a lot of times it's in a bathroom mirror.
• 35:41
  Kevin Anthony: I was waiting for you to say that.
• 35:43
  Robin Ducharme: Bathroom, a public bathroom, Kevin. It's
• 35:45
  like I'm looking at some random sink, and it looks like a public
• 35:50
  stall, like a urinal behind them or something, and it's a selfie,
• 35:55
  and oh, you can see the camera, and it's just really tacky,
• 35:58
  actually. Like, I am not going to date somebody that hasn't
• 36:02
  even taken the time to put a nice photo of themselves up, and
• 36:05
  I mean that. It's like, no, bud, you're not getting past go,
• 36:09
  absolutely not.
• 36:11
  Kevin Anthony: Oh, the photos. I was hoping you would go there
• 36:13
  with the photos because this is a discussion we have to have. So
• 36:17
  really, but but you're everything you said is
• 36:20
  absolutely true. Like, you are right, and I hear this all the
• 36:24
  time from people. So one of the big things I hear when it comes
• 36:28
  to photos is, you know, I hear this from women a lot. Yeah, I
• 36:32
  mean, you know, he looked he looked attractive in the photos,
• 36:36
  good enough. You know, maybe not exactly my type, but you know, I
• 36:40
  was interested, right? And then he shows up on the date, and
• 36:43
  he's 10 years, 15 years older than he looks in the photos
• 36:47
  online. So one, they often will. This is another thing I hear
• 36:51
  too. People will lie about their age online when they fill out
• 36:55
  what their age is. They'll actually put it younger than it
• 36:58
  actually is, but then they'll use these 10-year-old photos of themselves.
• 37:03
  Robin Ducharme: Which is which is also not being true. It's not
• 37:06
  being accurate and authentic and and honest.
• 37:10
  Kevin Anthony: Right, and so you're starting.
• 37:11
  Robin Ducharme: He would put up red flags. I know red flags are
• 37:14
  in our conversation. That's a red flag. Is that you're already
• 37:17
  lying? Number one, about your age. If that's happening, then I
• 37:21
  would question what else you're lying about in your life. Like,
• 37:25
  it's already setting this relationship up on a lie. And
• 37:28
  number two, if you're putting pictures in that are 10 years
• 37:31
  old, that's also a lie. It's deception. And so I would be
• 37:34
  like showing up on the date, going like, "Those were not
• 37:37
  accurate photos. That must have been you 10 years ago, and I,
• 37:41
  you know, I think I'm, I'm kind of the person who would be okay,
• 37:44
  comfortable saying that, but it doesn't set up the date for
• 37:48
  success right away, does it?
• 37:49
  Kevin Anthony: No, I completely agree. You're literally, if this
• 37:52
  does become a relationship at some point you've already
• 37:55
  started it off by breaking trust, right?
• 37:57
  Robin Ducharme: Yes.
• 37:58
  Kevin Anthony: And that's a problem. Now, now, now you're
• 38:00
  behind, trying to catch up and reestablish trust. If you had
• 38:04
  just been honest about your age and put a decent photo of
• 38:07
  yourself- and a decent photo- I laughed so hard when you
• 38:11
  mentioned how many photos you've seen where they're in a public
• 38:14
  bathroom, and I'm thinking to myself, what in a bathroom if
• 38:19
  it's yours? I kind of understand because, like, they're doing
• 38:21
  selfies and using the mirror to help get the photo. I don't
• 38:24
  think it's a good idea, but at least I understand that. But a
• 38:27
  public bathroom-you couldn't at least do it at home in your own
• 38:31
  bathroom where it's clean.
• 38:33
  Robin Ducharme: It happens more often than you think. But also,
• 38:35
  it's like I don't think we need to do any bathroom photos. Oh,
• 38:38
  Kevin Anthony: I agree. I don't think they should.
• 38:44
  Robin Ducharme: I just think when it comes down to it, it
• 38:45
  shows a lack of effort, a lack of investment.
• 38:48
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, you know, another one I hear women
• 38:50
  complain about too is like the guy O'Sum photo where he's like
• 38:53
  from the side on his boat holding up a fish or something
• 38:56
  like that. You know, where it's like, again, it's a low-effort
• 39:01
  photo, and it's like, okay, great, you love fishing, but you
• 39:05
  can't even really see what you look like. You got your hat on,
• 39:07
  your sunglasses on, you got a fish covering half your face.
• 39:09
  Like, just take some time to take a couple of good photos
• 39:14
  that show who you actually are. And if you're not comfortable
• 39:17
  with who you actually are, maybe you shouldn't be dating until
• 39:21
  you can work on yourself enough to actually be comfortable
• 39:24
  enough to show who you really are.
• 39:27
  Robin Ducharme: Yeah, and when it comes to the write-up, a lot
• 39:32
  of dating apps don't allow you to do a lot of writing anymore.
• 39:35
  But there are often prompts that you can answer with
• 39:39
  thoughtfulness and maybe some humor, and if you're having
• 39:43
  trouble with this, like it's. I think it's kind of like showing,
• 39:46
  like, building a resume. A lot of us, like me myself included,
• 39:49
  I would like if I were to create a resume today, I'd be like, oh,
• 39:52
  where do I start? I mean, I know we've got AI. I'd probably ask a
• 39:56
  question there, but when it comes to your online profile.
• 40:00
  Sit down with somebody that knows you really well, that you
• 40:02
  trust, that you like, you value their opinion, and be like, "Can
• 40:06
  you help me with my online profile? I want to. I want to
• 40:09
  make this sound good. I want to make. I want it accurate, but I
• 40:13
  also don't want it to sound too serious. Like, let's have fun
• 40:17
  with this. So, ask somebody that you know and trust to help you
• 40:20
  build your online profile. I think it's a great exercise, and
• 40:24
  come up with some really good ways to actually show your
• 40:27
  uniqueness. You know, we all have quirks. We all have ways
• 40:31
  that we can portray ourselves that aren't just all the mundane
• 40:36
  answers that we sometimes put. You know,
• 40:39
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah.
• 40:40
  Robin Ducharme: So you want to kind of stand out from the
• 40:42
  crowd.
• 40:43
  Kevin Anthony: I agree, and at the same time, as we've, you
• 40:46
  know, said multiple times throughout this episode, be
• 40:49
  real, be yourself, be real. Don't write stuff in there that
• 40:53
  isn't actually you, right?
• 40:55
  Robin Ducharme: Yes, like, let's just say that you're a
• 40:57
  pickleball player, right? Like, I've never played pickleball in
• 40:59
  my life, but there are a lot of people who are playing it, and I
• 41:01
  love that. That's great. But let's say it's like really one
• 41:04
  of your like favorite things you do on the weekend, like with
• 41:07
  some buddies, and you're like, I can, I can, you know, I'm a
• 41:10
  killer. I'm a killer at pickleball. I don't know. That
• 41:13
  was a very bad example, but I'm sure there are better words that
• 41:16
  you can. Or, like, I'm looking for like somebody who would get
• 41:21
  on the court and play pickleball with me. Something like that
• 41:24
  that shows, " Okay, they're active on the weekends. They
• 41:27
  play pickleball. They're looking for a partner to play with them.
• 41:30
  I mean, there are just ways to get creative, but also share
• 41:33
  information about yourself.
• 41:34
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I got a pickleball
• 41:37
  joke for you. Nothing against anybody who likes pickleball.
• 41:42
  It's just a joke, right? So everybody, calm down, take a
• 41:45
  deep breath. But I saw I've actually never played
• 41:50
  pickleball, believe it or not. But I have tons of friends who
• 41:52
  do who are really into it. Anyway, yeah, I saw this meme,
• 41:55
  and it was a picture of a guy who had, like, crashed on his
• 41:59
  motocross bike, right on the top, and then a picture of
• 42:02
  somebody playing pickleball at the bottom, and it said, "At 54
• 42:06
  years old, I'd rather be terrible at riding dirt bikes
• 42:08
  than great at playing pickleball. Just made me laugh.
• 42:13
  Sorry, pickleball people, I'm not trying to make fun of you,
• 42:15
  but I mean that's personally how I feel, which is why I think I
• 42:18
  thought it was so funny.
• 42:20
  Robin Ducharme: Yeah, yeah. There's, there's no way you're
• 42:22
  gonna play pickleball.
• 42:24
  Kevin Anthony: No, I mean, I'd be happy to go play, but for me,
• 42:26
  I would much rather be on my mountain bike, rock climbing, or
• 42:30
  doing something like that. But no, no offense to all of my
• 42:33
  wonderful friends who love pickleball.
• 42:36
  Robin Ducharme: Yes, yeah.
• 42:38
  Kevin Anthony: Okay, a couple more things before we move on
• 42:41
  when it comes to online dating. So we talked about obviously
• 42:44
  using good photos, taking some effort, not taking them in the
• 42:49
  bathroom at all, public or otherwise. You know, using
• 42:53
  recent ones. We talked about writing something good and
• 42:57
  having a friend help you with that. Somebody that knows you.
• 43:01
  We talked about being honest in it and not writing things that
• 43:05
  aren't you. Another thing you had mentioned when we talked
• 43:09
  about this in the pre-interview call was not narrowing the field
• 43:14
  too much. That's another thing that we tend to see people do
• 43:18
  when it comes to using the apps. They create, and we talked about
• 43:22
  this a little bit earlier. But I think it tends to be a bigger
• 43:26
  issue in the dating apps because it gives you all of these
• 43:29
  levers, so to speak, that you can pull to narrow what you're
• 43:32
  looking for.
• 43:33
  Robin Ducharme: Right, and something this was this was
• 43:36
  something that I learned early on in matchmaking, right?
• 43:40
  Because if we narrow our fields too tightly, it just closes the
• 43:45
  probability of meeting quality people that you may not have
• 43:51
  come across because you were just too narrow in what you were
• 43:55
  looking for. So we want to open it up, you know. Like I I some
• 44:00
  people are very against dating people younger or older than
• 44:05
  them, but that was one of the fields, for instance, that we
• 44:08
  would say to people like, please, like, open up your age
• 44:12
  range because you may meet somebody that you know I'm 49
• 44:17
  years old. Who knows? Maybe my next partner is going to be 10
• 44:23
  years younger than me, or 10 years older. I don't know. Am I
• 44:28
  open to that? Well, even that seems a little bit much. But
• 44:31
  maybe I would look seven years younger, seven years older,
• 44:34
  something like that.
• 44:35
  Okay. Some people are like, nope, they have to be like maybe
• 44:38
  three years older, three years younger. Well, it doesn't really
• 44:39
  give you a good field, right? Doesn't give you a. So I'm just
• 44:42
  saying, the more open that we can be, the better when it comes
• 44:46
  to setting your parameters. When it comes to choosing, if you
• 44:50
  know you want to, because there is there's definitely fields
• 44:52
  where you could say wants children, has children. So be
• 44:56
  clear on that. If you don't want children, make sure you're
• 44:59
  putting. Do not want children, right? But if that person has
• 45:03
  children, that may. I'm just saying, like, there are ways
• 45:06
  that you're going to see. You don't want to be narrowing in
• 45:09
  your choices. You want to be as open as you can to meeting,
• 45:13
  meeting, you know, as many people as possible.
• 45:17
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, I agree, especially with the age thing.
• 45:20
  Well, I say that? Because my wife and I had a nine-year age
• 45:23
  difference. Yeah, but it was amazing.
• 45:26
  Robin Ducharme: And how did you how did you how did you meet the
• 45:29
  partner that you're with now, Kevin?
• 45:32
  Kevin Anthony: Well, I knew. So here's the thing, right? This is
• 45:35
  probably a great segue into, like, what do people do other
• 45:39
  than online dating? So I have never been on an online dating
• 45:43
  app in my life, even during periods of time in my life when
• 45:49
  I was actively dating. Now, granted, I mean I'm 52 at this
• 45:54
  point, so a lot of those years were pre-dating apps, but not
• 45:58
  all of them. But you know, I always just met people by going
• 46:02
  out and doing stuff, and spending time with my friends,
• 46:05
  and just going out and being social. So my current partner,
• 46:10
  somebody that I had known through my community for years,
• 46:15
  you know, casually, not super well. We knew who each other
• 46:18
  was, and you know, we would say hi and, you know, talk here and
• 46:22
  there if we would run into each other at a party or something
• 46:25
  like that. And you know, after my wife passed, there was, you
• 46:29
  know, obviously a period of time where I was not interested in
• 46:31
  dating.
• 46:32
  And then a friend of mine was having a birthday party, and
• 46:37
  honestly, I really did not want to go. It had nothing to do with
• 46:41
  my friend. I was just still in the morning phase, really, and I
• 46:44
  was not feeling very social. And I was like, I don't know. But I
• 46:49
  said to myself, "You just got to get out of the house. Like, this
• 46:52
  is going to be good for you. Just do it. Just go to the park.
• 46:56
  You don't even have to stay long, right? If you're not
• 46:58
  having fun, at least you got out of the house and you went there,
• 47:00
  right? So I did, and I ran into her there, and I hadn't seen her
• 47:05
  in a couple of years. Would have been probably pre-COVID when I
• 47:09
  saw her, and we just started a conversation, and that
• 47:15
  conversation led to, hey, why don't we get together? The party
• 47:20
  happened to be down. It was a beach party that my friend had
• 47:24
  thrown, and I knew that she appreciated the beach. And I
• 47:28
  said, "Well, hey, why don't we just go to the beach one day and
• 47:31
  hang out on a Saturday or a Sunday, and you know, just get
• 47:35
  reacquainted? And she was like, "Yeah, that's a great idea.
• 47:39
  Unfortunately, it was very early in the summer when that
• 47:44
  occurred, and it got really cold after that. And we didn't have
• 47:48
  beach weather for like weeks. And I kept looking. I'm like
• 47:52
  looking at the weather. I'm like, "Is it going to warm up? I
• 47:54
  want to invite her to the beach. When is it going to warm up? So
• 47:56
  finally, it got warm, and I reached out to her and said,
• 47:59
  "Would you like to have that beach date with me, so it's just
• 48:02
  a matter of going out there and putting yourself out there and
• 48:06
  meeting people, talking to people, doing things that maybe
• 48:10
  somewhat push your comfort level.
• 48:15
  Robin Ducharme: I think you make a perfect point because if
• 48:17
  you're adamant that no, I don't want online date, or your, or
• 48:21
  you are online dating. Rather than putting all of your eggs in
• 48:25
  one basket, well, like one mode of trying to meet somebody,
• 48:29
  there have to be many. I believe that it's like talking to
• 48:33
  people, telling people I am now ready to date, and who do you
• 48:37
  know, right? And saying yes to these invitations. You know, you
• 48:41
  said you didn't want to go to your friend's party, and finally
• 48:44
  you're like, okay, you went, and look what happened, right? It's
• 48:47
  it's it's subjecting ourselves to new environments and new
• 48:51
  people that we're not seeing every day, day to day. Like if
• 48:54
  you're going to an office and you're you're you know, circling
• 48:57
  around the same people day in, day out, and you're taking the
• 49:00
  same route home, you're going to the same, you know, you're
• 49:03
  coming home, and you're sitting with your kids doing their
• 49:05
  homework and going to bed. It's like, you're how are you
• 49:07
  expecting anything different if you're in the same zone that
• 49:11
  you're always in day in and day out? You need to change up your
• 49:14
  routine, and you know, really be in different places than you're
• 49:19
  than you normally are. Really opening up the opportunities to
• 49:22
  meet new people.
• 49:23
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, and you know, I already said my age. My
• 49:26
  listeners know it because I talk about it all the time. But I'm
• 49:29
  old enough to remember how we did it before these apps
• 49:32
  existed.
• 49:33
  Robin Ducharme: I mean, right?
• 49:34
  Kevin Anthony: I mean, when I learned how to date, we didn't
• 49:36
  have cell phones, we didn't have computers, we didn't have the
• 49:39
  internet, we didn't have any of that stuff, right? But yet
• 49:44
  somehow we still managed to date, and we still managed to
• 49:47
  have girlfriends and boyfriends and relationships and all of
• 49:51
  that, right? And so, you know, I think maybe as somebody who's
• 49:55
  older, you know, I have that advantage of remembering how we
• 49:59
  used to do that. Whereas the younger generations have never
• 50:02
  experienced any of that; they know nothing but, you know,
• 50:06
  online dating and, you know, meeting people online or
• 50:11
  whatever. But yeah, you know. So, in our segue to what else do
• 50:16
  you do? Get out there and do stuff.
• 50:20
  Robin Ducharme: Exactly. And you know what, Kevin? You make a
• 50:22
  really good point. I was watching some. I'm sure it was
• 50:25
  like it was part of a podcast, but it was live. And what they
• 50:28
  were saying was that the man was talking about dating and finding
• 50:34
  a partner. It can be really hard. Like, let's just be real
• 50:38
  about it. He's like, and even he's like, remember when you
• 50:40
  were a teenager? Remember even when you were in your early 20s,
• 50:42
  and you are like, you are dating people, but you are like, oh,
• 50:44
  it's not that one. Oh, that one, that one went sideways. Like,
• 50:47
  you know what? Like, let's just forget about the dating apps.
• 50:50
  Like when I was in my, you know, teens and early 20s, like you
• 50:52
  just said, like we didn't have any of this, but it didn't take
• 50:55
  away the challenge of it. Like it was still kind of hard, like
• 50:58
  to meet your people, meet your, like, even somebody to be like,
• 51:02
  maybe I do want to talk to you. Actually, you're not great. You
• 51:05
  know what I mean?
• 51:06
  Like you you share a drink with somebody at the bar, and you're
• 51:08
  like, within 20 minutes you realize, definitely not my
• 51:10
  person. Bye. Like, do you know what I mean? So it doesn't take
• 51:14
  away from the challenge of dating. Like it can be it's it
• 51:18
  can be really hard. So let's just name it for what it is, but
• 51:22
  then it also is, like, worth it, right? Because you want to find
• 51:26
  love. There's nothing, you know. In my mind, it's like, you know,
• 51:30
  so many of us want that. I want a good partnership. I want
• 51:33
  something to share my life with, and that hope, that yearning, is
• 51:37
  not going to go away. Like it's something that is, it's a deep
• 51:40
  want, and in me, it's a need. Like I'm not saying right now,
• 51:44
  but I'm saying in my life, I want to share my life with
• 51:46
  somebody, and I'm willing to go the distance to find that
• 51:49
  person, whatever it takes. You know?
• 51:53
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, I mean, I'm a big proponent of that. I truly
• 51:56
  feel that when you have a good partner in your life, that life
• 52:00
  is just better. Everything about life gets better when you have a
• 52:03
  good partner in your life, especially in today's world,
• 52:06
  because we don't live in communities per se, right? Like
• 52:11
  we don't live in a village where we've got all this support, and
• 52:14
  so when we're by ourselves, you know, living in our little
• 52:18
  houses, you know, each sort of segmented off, you know, life
• 52:23
  can be challenging. There's a lot that needs to happen, and a
• 52:25
  lot of responsibilities and things like that. And it's hard
• 52:29
  to manage all of that without somebody, you know, really,
• 52:34
  really solid by your side. And I don't mean just to to to you
• 52:37
  know, divvy up the tasks. That's not what I'm talking about.
• 52:40
  But somebody there to help support you, to encourage you,
• 52:44
  to be your biggest cheerleader, right? To, you know, just help
• 52:48
  you get through what life is like. And then, of course, it's
• 52:51
  not even just about getting through stuff, but it's also
• 52:54
  about sharing all of the happy, positive moments, right?
• 52:57
  Exactly, and creating those happy, feel-good chemicals, and
• 53:01
  you know, the cuddling and the co-regulation, and just like
• 53:04
  there are so many things that a good partner brings into your
• 53:08
  life that I personally feel make your life better. That's why
• 53:13
  it's one of the reasons why I do the work that I do, trying to
• 53:16
  help people have better relationships, because I know
• 53:19
  that it improves the quality of life.
• 53:22
  Robin Ducharme: Yes, it absolutely does. It there's
• 53:26
  there's nothing greater than the people in our lives that we
• 53:29
  share our lives with. You know, it's our relationships that
• 53:33
  matter the most. And so this whole path of dating and trying
• 53:37
  to find somebody, it really matters. And it's, um, about
• 53:41
  taking it seriously and doing it in the best way that we know we
• 53:44
  can, you know. Hopefully, we're going to be, you know, showing
• 53:48
  up as our best selves and being able to see Is this somebody
• 53:51
  else who's doing the same that I can actually look at sharing my
• 53:55
  life with. Yeah, that has the qualities that I'm looking for.
• 53:57
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, we got a couple of minutes
• 54:01
  here, so there are still more things I want to talk about. But
• 54:04
  let's do this. We promised people some red flags, so let's
• 54:08
  just cover a couple of quick red flags, and then we'll kind of
• 54:10
  sum it up at the end with like our best advice for people who
• 54:13
  are out there in the dating field. So, red flags to look out
• 54:17
  for, whether it's online dating, in-person dating, or anything
• 54:20
  else. What would be some of the top ones that you would say?
• 54:24
  Robin Ducharme: I think you know. First of all, it's like
• 54:25
  there is somebody. Are they consistent? Are they consistent
• 54:29
  with their communication? With their following through? What
• 54:33
  they say they're going to do? Are they actually doing it?
• 54:35
  Right. That's about integrity. And I, you know, I was on a
• 54:40
  podcast last week, and the podcast was so sweet. She's in
• 54:44
  her 30s, and she's like, "Okay, so what happens if you date go
• 54:47
  the first date goes really well, and the person says to you, 'All
• 54:50
  right, I'm interested. Let's have a second date. Like, how
• 54:55
  long do you wait? Do you wait like a week? Do you do you do
• 54:58
  you wait a couple of days to reach out?" And I'm like, first
• 55:01
  of all, why not book you the second date at the first date?
• 55:05
  Okay, and if that doesn't happen, how is the other person
• 55:09
  actually showing you that they're interested? Games. I
• 55:12
  think when people are playing games with their communication,
• 55:15
  and they're kind of trying to keep you on the line without
• 55:19
  actually implementing action of like I want to see you on
• 55:22
  Tuesday at 5 o'clock, like setting a second time to see you
• 55:26
  or next time to see you. It's like a red flag: trying to keep
• 55:29
  you on the line or playing games with your communication. They're
• 55:32
  just not. There's definitely no alignment there.
• 55:34
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, I agree with both of those. So, you
• 55:36
  know, do you say do you do what you say you're going to do? Do
• 55:41
  you follow through, right? So do you have integrity? And then, of
• 55:44
  course, any sort of game playing. Oh my God, I answer
• 55:47
  these questions all the time, and I get them a lot. I do live
• 55:50
  streams on YouTube, and I get this all the time from people
• 55:54
  around the dating subjects, which is like, well, how long
• 55:57
  should I wait to do this? Or he did this, and I'm just like, no
• 56:00
  games; we don't play games. It's not okay. Well, he did this, so
• 56:04
  I have to wait five days for that. Like, I agree with you. If
• 56:07
  I went on a first date and I enjoyed it and I was interested,
• 56:10
  I would tell the person, you know, I had a really great time.
• 56:14
  I would love to do this again, and then I would see what their
• 56:17
  response is. If they're like, you know what, I really did too,
• 56:20
  and that would be great, you know. We could book it there, or
• 56:23
  I would say, you know, okay, well, let's look at our
• 56:26
  calendars in the next day or two and see if we can get something
• 56:29
  on the calendar. I would then, on the very next day after the
• 56:32
  date, at least send a text saying, "Hey, thanks for last
• 56:36
  night. That was great. I really enjoyed it. Here's what my
• 56:38
  calendar looks like. Like simple things like that.
• 56:42
  Robin Ducharme: Exactly. Yeah. I would say. Oh, yeah. Go ahead.
• 56:46
  Kevin Anthony: Well, if you have something to add, please do
• 56:48
  before I move on with other red flags.
• 56:51
  Robin Ducharme: Oh, I was just gonna. Please go on to the next
• 56:54
  red flag.
• 56:55
  Kevin Anthony: Okay. So we had. I had. Do they keep their word,
• 57:00
  which was the integrity thing that we were just talking about.
• 57:03
  But another one on here is how they speak about past
• 57:08
  relationships, and I know that was one that I was going to say,
• 57:10
  Kevin. Okay, great.
• 57:11
  Robin Ducharme: That's what I was going to say next, because I
• 57:13
  think it's like, you know how somebody is sharing details of
• 57:23
  their past relationships-is it a lot of blame? Is it shame? You
• 57:30
  know, they're shaming the other person. Is it all negative and
• 57:33
  zero accountability on your part? You know, because that is
• 57:38
  something that I want to do in my life, it's like taking the
• 57:44
  opportunities that I've had, the experiences I've had, the
• 57:46
  relationships I've had, and like really trying to learn from
• 57:49
  them. What did I learn about myself? How do I want to be
• 57:52
  different? What patterns was I kind of playing out that weren't
• 57:57
  the healthiest? That I'm not going to. That I don't want to
• 58:00
  continue on in this next partnership, and that takes a
• 58:04
  lot of introspection, retrospection, and
• 58:07
  accountability, and me being honest with myself. Right? I
• 58:11
  mean, I can talk about what didn't work and my part in that
• 58:15
  from a place of respect. You know, with somebody I'm dating
• 58:19
  with, somebody I'm dating.
• 58:21
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, and you know that's really important
• 58:23
  because I think sometimes people feel like if they put all the
• 58:26
  blame on the other person, it makes them look better. Like,
• 58:30
  hey, I'm not broken. I'm not damaged. It wasn't my fault.
• 58:34
  Like, let me tell you how crazy this person is and all the crazy
• 58:37
  stuff they did. Right? When, in reality, for somebody who's
• 58:41
  really paying attention, that's not actually the way they see
• 58:45
  it. They'll see it more like you said, like, "Wow, this person
• 58:48
  has no ability to self-reflect, and this person is completely
• 58:51
  blaming the other person, even though I know all relationships
• 58:54
  are co-creation of two people. Man, that's a red flag I should
• 58:58
  watch out for because it really seems like this person is not
• 59:00
  taking responsibility or accountability. I can remember I
• 59:05
  had a relationship.
• 59:06
  It was a relatively short one, but with this woman, there were
• 59:12
  some really bad behaviors involved, really not good
• 59:18
  behaviors, and so that relationship ended. And I
• 59:21
  remember dating after that, and obviously, you know, people
• 59:26
  asking me what happened with that last relationship, and I
• 59:30
  refused to actually say the bad behaviors that she did. I just
• 59:35
  kept it like, you know, there were some things that didn't
• 59:37
  work out. There were some behaviors that, you know I felt
• 59:40
  weren't compatible with us, and I just kept it nice like that.
• 59:42
  Like I wasn't about to trash-talk this person in front
• 59:47
  of somebody else.
• 59:48
  Robin Ducharme: Yeah.
• 59:49
  Kevin Anthony: Part of the reason was that I just didn't
• 59:50
  want to do that, and another reason is that we also have to
• 59:54
  understand sometimes that in relationships, how somebody is
• 59:58
  showing up in that moment. Has a lot to do with where they're at
• 1:00:02
  in that moment, and it doesn't necessarily mean that's who they
• 1:00:05
  are. So, for instance, with this particular person, I know that
• 1:00:08
  there was some trauma there that was causing some of this
• 1:00:11
  behavior, and I know that it wasn't intentional, right? I
• 1:00:14
  know that she wasn't a bad person. In fact, to this day, we
• 1:00:17
  are amazing friends, and whenever she's in the country,
• 1:00:20
  we hang out, and we have a great time together, right? So, so
• 1:00:24
  imagine if I had written her off and said, "Oh my gosh, she's a
• 1:00:27
  horrible person, and like told everybody what a terrible person
• 1:00:29
  she was, right? Like, that's just not cool and not right. And
• 1:00:33
  so, just using that as an example of, like, don't badmouth
• 1:00:37
  your ex-partners, even when they potentially did some things that
• 1:00:40
  really weren't cool in the relationship at that time-that
• 1:00:44
  definitely would be a red flag, especially if you're not taking
• 1:00:47
  any accountability whatsoever.
• 1:00:52
  Robin Ducharme: Yeah.
• 1:00:52
  Kevin Anthony: One more I had here on the list. Oh man, I hear
• 1:00:56
  this one from a lot of women, and I don't hear it as much from
• 1:01:00
  men, but I hear it from women. Do they allow you to talk? I
• 1:01:04
  have had numerous women tell me that they go out on dates, and
• 1:01:08
  the guy basically just talks about himself from beginning to
• 1:01:11
  end and never asks her a single question about herself.
• 1:01:15
  Robin Ducharme: Yeah, no, thank you. I don't. I don't want to
• 1:01:18
  date somebody like that. I don't want to be friends with somebody
• 1:01:20
  like that, you know, is this person actually is this is this
• 1:01:25
  a back-and-forth? Like, are we actually communicating? Are we
• 1:01:29
  sharing, like, conversation and interest and curiosity, you
• 1:01:35
  know? And am I hearing what you're saying and, like, telling
• 1:01:39
  you know, giving my two cents into it, or right, modeling that
• 1:01:43
  back to you. It's like I want to be present with the people that
• 1:01:47
  I'm dating, just like you know. I would give that to you right
• 1:01:51
  now, Kevin. We're sharing this hour, and I'm intent on being in
• 1:01:55
  this with you. You know, if I was doing all the talking right
• 1:01:58
  now, how would that serve what we're trying to do here? No,
• 1:02:04
  it's it's it's just really bad behavior. It's not respectful.
• 1:02:07
  It's not kind. It's not showing up in the spirit of generosity,
• 1:02:11
  or, you know, like it's just really bad.
• 1:02:15
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, you know, and I tell people all the time,
• 1:02:17
  this is another this is one I have to tell women a lot
• 1:02:19
  because, you know, a lot of times women are actually afraid
• 1:02:23
  to ask too many questions and really like you know, get to
• 1:02:26
  know who this person is. One of the things I tell them because I
• 1:02:29
  coach a group of women, I say, remember that dating, especially
• 1:02:33
  early on, it's like an interview process. You're getting to know
• 1:02:36
  who this person is. You have every right to ask questions to
• 1:02:40
  get to know who they are; I mean, don't make it the freaking
• 1:02:43
  Inquisition. But you have every right to ask questions that get
• 1:02:47
  to the heart of who this person is, right? And so, if, let's say
• 1:02:52
  it's the guy who's talking about himself the entire time, if he's
• 1:02:55
  not asking you questions, well, he's already showing you he's
• 1:02:58
  not really that interested in who you actually are.
• 1:03:01
  Robin Ducharme: No, exactly. He wants to just you know talk
• 1:03:05
  about himself and and yeah, major red flag. Yes.
• 1:03:12
  Kevin Anthony: All right.
• 1:03:13
  Robin Ducharme: You're not feeling you're not feeling
• 1:03:15
  heard, right? You literally are not being heard, given the
• 1:03:19
  opportunity. You know, I think what's also really important for
• 1:03:24
  us to point out when you're dating and getting to know
• 1:03:27
  somebody new, and even if they're not, you know, that new,
• 1:03:31
  let's just say it's like really tuning into how you're feeling
• 1:03:35
  with this person. Are they offering you, like, a safe place
• 1:03:40
  to be yourself? Are your alarm bells going off? Are you
• 1:03:45
  feeling, you know, that your intuition is telling you this
• 1:03:49
  isn't right? Are you able to actually listen when you're
• 1:03:52
  being given that information? Because oftentimes, you know, we
• 1:03:56
  are human beings, but we're spiritual beings having a human
• 1:03:59
  experience, and there are so many things, and we have senses
• 1:04:02
  that are not our five senses, and our senses go way out. So,
• 1:04:07
  like, how are you feeling in your own self when you're with
• 1:04:11
  this person, and really paying attention to that, especially in
• 1:04:14
  the early days when you're dating somebody?
• 1:04:17
  Kevin Anthony: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, well, we're a little bit
• 1:04:21
  over time, but that's okay. We've been having a great
• 1:04:23
  conversation. I just kind of want to wrap up with, you know,
• 1:04:26
  a lot of what we talked about here on the show was the
• 1:04:30
  challenges that people face. Now, we did, of course, give
• 1:04:33
  ideas of how they can do things better, whether it's online
• 1:04:36
  dating or dating in person. I kind of just want to tie it all
• 1:04:40
  up in a nice, pretty bow for everybody at the end to make it
• 1:04:43
  really easy for them, you know, to have something to take home
• 1:04:47
  with them that they can do and change. So, if somebody's out
• 1:04:50
  there dating right now, what would be your best advice for
• 1:04:55
  how they could date in today's modern world in the best way?
• 1:04:59
  Robin Ducharme: They could, as I said at the beginning. I think
• 1:05:05
  it's like making it known that you have the intention of
• 1:05:09
  finding a partner. It could be that your family, your friends,
• 1:05:13
  don't even know that you're up, what you're up to, and so on. If
• 1:05:16
  you had more people aware that you were ready and wanting to
• 1:05:20
  date, you could start asking for introductions. I think, like,
• 1:05:24
  and I'm, I'm just like, ask people that are that you're
• 1:05:27
  interacting with at work. You know, you're professionals.
• 1:05:30
  You're going to get your teeth cleaned. Ask your dental
• 1:05:32
  hygienist. Do you have anybody that you know that comes in
• 1:05:34
  here, like a great guy that you know is dating, right? We talked
• 1:05:39
  about online dating profiles, and I think spending more time
• 1:05:42
  on your profile, asking a friend or trusted family member to take
• 1:05:47
  a look and say, like, what do you think? What would you
• 1:05:49
  improve? How can you help me with the write-up so that it
• 1:05:51
  sounds more like me and funnier or more interesting, right?
• 1:05:56
  And having better photos, and really, I think it also comes
• 1:06:00
  down to filling your life up in a place where you're feeling
• 1:06:06
  really good about your life now, right? We could spend a lot of
• 1:06:12
  time focused on what's not there, which is if you're in the
• 1:06:15
  lack mentality of, like, I am without a partner, and I'm so
• 1:06:17
  miserable because of it. Okay, maybe we just need to take a
• 1:06:21
  step back into our own lives, and how are we going to fill our
• 1:06:23
  cups so that we are showing up in the world? Like, you know,
• 1:06:27
  I'm good. Having another probably another person to share
• 1:06:29
  it with is going to fill me up better, or more, more. But I'm
• 1:06:33
  not coming from a place of lack.
• 1:06:35
  Kevin Anthony: Man, you know, I can't believe this did not come
• 1:06:37
  up in the conversation sooner. But this is a huge point that
• 1:06:40
  you just brought up, which is that, you know, a lot of times
• 1:06:43
  when people go out there in the dating world, they're out there
• 1:06:47
  almost operating from a sense of desperation. I need to find
• 1:06:51
  somebody. I need to find somebody, and that. So when men
• 1:06:55
  are in that desperate spot, it's usually like I'm desperate for
• 1:06:58
  sex kind of energy. Women can spot that from 10 miles away,
• 1:07:02
  and they will run in the other direction the second they sense
• 1:07:05
  that that's what's going on with you, right? But you know, women
• 1:07:09
  can have desperate energy too-the desperate to find a
• 1:07:11
  husband, you know, desperate to find a baby daddy kind of
• 1:07:14
  energy.
• 1:07:15
  Robin Ducharme: If anybody's running out, right?
• 1:07:16
  Kevin Anthony: If anybody is operating from that place of
• 1:07:19
  sort of desperate energy out in the dating space, you're likely
• 1:07:23
  going to end up making bad choices, and so I completely
• 1:07:26
  agree with you. Make sure that your cup is full so that you're
• 1:07:30
  going into the dating space from a place of feeling happy, whole,
• 1:07:36
  and content in your life. And also, by the way, I'm opening up
• 1:07:40
  space to have somebody share that with me. Very different
• 1:07:44
  energy.
• 1:07:45
  Robin Ducharme: Very different. Beautiful.
• 1:07:48
  Kevin Anthony: Well, Robin, I want to thank you for coming on
• 1:07:50
  the show, having this conversation with me, and I also
• 1:07:53
  want you to take a moment to tell people where they can find
• 1:07:56
  more about you and your book that you have written.
• 1:08:00
  Robin Ducharme: Oh, thank you, Kevin. So my company name is
• 1:08:04
  Real Love Ready, and my book is called Real Love Ready. And what
• 1:08:10
  we've been on a mission for the past six years is to help people
• 1:08:14
  build their relational literacy. And what does that mean? It's
• 1:08:17
  actually building skills, knowledge, and awareness of how
• 1:08:22
  to love better in the world with many people within
• 1:08:27
  relationships. So yes, of course, we're talking today
• 1:08:31
  about our intimate partnerships, but we can build our relational
• 1:08:35
  literacy and how we relate to each other with all of our
• 1:08:37
  relationships. So realloveready.com is our
• 1:08:42
  website, and every year we host a large summit in Vancouver
• 1:08:45
  where we bring together the top relational experts to teach us
• 1:08:49
  for the weekend in person. And you know, it's transformational
• 1:08:52
  for people that come. You leave there, and you learn from the
• 1:08:55
  best of the best, and you learn how to apply what you've learned
• 1:08:59
  in your life, and it changes. It changes your life for sure.
• 1:09:04
  Kevin Anthony: That sounds amazing. And you know, I think
• 1:09:07
  if you're one of those people, you've been out there, and
• 1:09:10
  you've been failing in relationships, and you've been,
• 1:09:13
  you know, having a difficult time dating. You know,
• 1:09:16
  obviously, you know, working with a coach and that kind of
• 1:09:18
  stuff is great. But, like, going to something like that and
• 1:09:21
  immersing yourself in learning new behaviors, new patterns, new
• 1:09:25
  skills. I just can't think of a better investment in your future
• 1:09:31
  than doing something like that. So I think it's super cool that
• 1:09:33
  you put something like that together.
• 1:09:35
  Robin Ducharme: Yeah, it'll be our fifth year this April. So
• 1:09:38
  yeah, it's a phenomenal, phenomenal weekend, and I hope
• 1:09:42
  people come.
• 1:09:44
  Kevin Anthony: Well, you know we're getting the word out,
• 1:09:46
  right? So they're here; they can go check out realloveready.com,
• 1:09:50
  correct? Right, where they can find that's right, and they can
• 1:09:53
  find information on the workshop on the weekend as well, correct?
• 1:09:57
  Robin Ducharme: That's right.
• 1:09:58
  Kevin Anthony: Awesome.
• 1:09:58
  Robin Ducharme: Well, thank you for having me, Kevin. It's been
• 1:10:00
  a joy.
• 1:10:01
  Kevin Anthony: Thank you for coming on. It has been a joy
• 1:10:03
  indeed. And yeah, if if there's any way we can collaborate in
• 1:10:08
  the future, I'd be happy to.
• 1:10:11
  Robin Ducharme: Absolutely. Take care, everybody.
• 1:10:14
  Kevin Anthony: All right, everybody. That's all the time I
• 1:10:15
  have for this episode, and I will see you next week. I hope
• 1:10:25
  you liked this episode of the Love Lab podcast. If you enjoy
• 1:10:28
  this show, subscribe, leave me a review, and share it with your
• 1:10:31
  friends. And for more free exclusive content, join me in
• 1:10:35
  the Passion Vault https://www.kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault/.
• 1:10:38
  That's https://www.kevinanthonycoaching.com/vault/.
• 1:10:43
  Thanks for listening, and remember, as Celine used to say,
• 1:10:47
  you're amazing!