Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / The Other Side Of Yes: Exploring The Music Without Jon Anderson [Episode 324]

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The Other Side Of Yes: Exploring The Music Without Jon Anderson [Episode 324] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The music of Yes without John Anderson? Does it stand
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: up to the John Anderson years? What do the fans think?
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: What do the critics think? We're gonna explore all of
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: that next with author Preston Fraser. I'm booked on rockto
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: rock and roll.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'll leave you.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: You're reading little Hands this, It's time.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: To rock and roll roll.
• 0:22
  Speaker 4: I totally booked.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Hey everybody, welcome back to Booked on Rock, the podcast
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: for those about to read and rock. We have a
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: returning guest to the podcast, author Preston Fraser. He has
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: a brand new book out now titled Yes Indeed Tales
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: from Yes Without John Anderson. Preston, welcome back to the podcast.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Eric is good to be here. Of course, I've been
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: listening to Booked on Rock a lot, especially like the
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: episode you had recently bought ric Ocasek. I was wondering
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: if you guys who want to talk about the use
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: of the drum machines so planning their David Robinson for
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: the last three albums, but you never got a lot.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: So I did notice that the sound of the drums
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: changed drastically with the mud Laying album Heartbeat City and
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: then Door to Door yep. And yeah, then the one
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: from twenty eleven move like this.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: I saw that tour. Actually, that was fantastic. They were
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: great with no bass player.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: With no bass player. Yeah, yeah, thanks so much for
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: listening to the podcast. I really appreciate it. And this
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: one is an interesting one. Before we get into the book,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: you dedicated to quote the five percent for something fans.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Who is the five percent for something fan?
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a phrase which came from Mark Anthony k
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: who's in the book, and Kevin Maulryan, who chaired the
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Yes music podcast. And I think you're taking it from
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: the song five percent for Nothing from the Fragile album
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: of Bill Bruffer Trap, where that song, even though instrumental,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: talks about really how man get money for doing nothing
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: but pardon. Yes fans called themselves five percent or something
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: because they love the band and they're a small minority
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: who know the entire catalog.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: The book focuses specifically on the ears of Yes without
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: their iconic frontman John Anderson. I'm really curious as to
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: what inspired you to focus on these specific eras.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: Wow, man, that's that's a good question.
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: You're a fan of the underdog.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: I'm a fan of the Underdog, and I'm a fan
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: of these albums, but Eric, quite frankly, there are a
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: lot of great Yes albums, Yes books.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: I'm Tim Morris, who is a.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Wonderful progue artist who I interviewed a while ago, has
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: a wonderful book on Yes. I know you've interviewed some
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: people who have written books on Yes, Stephen Lamb.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Stephen Lamb and.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Also the guy who did the book on was a
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Death Leopard God.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: Jimber is her name now.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: But there are a bunch of great, how great books
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: on Kevin maul Ryan of Yes Music podcast in a
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: book on Tales from Topographic Oceans recently, which is a
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: wonderful book. So I didn't want to retread those. I
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: also didn't want to talk about something that everyone talks about.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: We know you're going to talk about Fragile Close to
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: the Edge nine two one five, So why should.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: I do that.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: I want to do something totally different, which is what
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: I think I did.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: And I think it's going to bring out some interesting
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: debate among YES fans once this gets out there. The
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: book just came out right.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Right, It just came out. It's available right now, I
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: think on Amazon. But pretty soon it will be an
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: all major retailers, physical and digital.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah. It will be interesting to see some
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: of the comments that the longtime Yes fans make regarding this,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: because it's going to be an interesting debate as to
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: how these years stand up to the John Anderson years.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: The opening chapter covers the nineteen eighty album Drama. That's
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: the first one. It's their tenth studio album, but the
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: only to feature Trevor Horn on lead vocals and the
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: first Jeff Downs on keyboards. A wonderfully written opening, I'm
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: gonna quote you here, you write quote. In the autumn
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty, as dusk settled over London's foggy streets,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: the air carried a secret promise of change, promised that
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: the familiar might yet be reborn. For Yes, a band
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: long defined by its intricate progressions and sprawling epics, that
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: night was the quiet prelude to a transformation both unexpected
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: and inevitable. The stage was set not in a grand arena,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: but in the collective determination of its members, a determination that,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: despite internal fractures and the loss of cherish icons white
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: John Anderson and Rick Wakeman, the creative spirit of yes,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: would not only endure but evolve wonderfully written. Wanted to
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: quote you directly on that one before we get into
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: the album. What led to the departure of John Anderson
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: and keyboardist Rick Wakeman.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Right, I think it was because of these I think
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: it was nineteen seventy nine or nineteen seventy eight, the
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Paris sessions that they did with Roy Thomas Baker, who
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: died a few months ago. I mean they were working
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: on an album in Paris. It was Anderson, Wakeman, how
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Squire and White. They had completed some rough tracks and
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: then I believe Alan White, their their late drummer, went out.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Uh went roller skating, disco skating. It broke his ankle.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: So they decided to wrap up the album. They wrap
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: up the sessions, but it was thought that Anderson and
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Anderson and Wakeman really weren't feeling the music. They weren't
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: enjoying the sessions. They were kind of burnt out and
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: they wanted to do their own things. So they both
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: went in their way to do solo albums, and that
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: led to a situation where, uh, where Squire said, well
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: I want to continue, how do you want to continue?
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Whye do you want to continue and they said yeah,
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: So they found the Buggles and integrated the Buggles Jeff
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Downs and Trevor Horn into the band.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: And the Buggles known for video Killed the Radio Star,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: famously known for that song song.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: And two great, two really good albums by Jeff and Trevor.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard about that. I got to listen to them.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I've heard that. Let's talk about the soul single from
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: the album, which is Into the Lens. Interesting comment, I'm
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: hoping you can expand on you write quote. It was
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: as if the band, through this song, invited its listeners
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: to look deeply into the reflective surfaces of memory and change,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: to witness the subtle alchemy of loss transforming into innovation.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: This is referring to both the complexity and the power
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: of the track.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Right Into the Lens is a wonderful song. Well quite frankly,
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: I love every song on Drama. It's one of my
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: favorite Yes albums. It's not my favorite, but Into the
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Lens is a great song because it could. It binds
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: so many great progressive elements, so many great pop elements,
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: and it has such wonderful guitar nuance playing to the
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: album to the song. One thing I like about Drama
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: is that at How doesn't do what's expected, nor does
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: fled Matter Chris Squire know that, nor did he ever
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: do that. It is really subtle, but it's different. It
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: is progressive. I talked to John Anderson a few years
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: ago about his album with ron A Stolt. I think
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: it was called what was it called like the Miracle
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: of Life or something like that was a d what album?
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: And I asked him what was progressive music?
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: And I really appreciate the album that he'd done with Royna,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: and he said, well, progressive music mus are always progressive,
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: always moving forward.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: And I think into the.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Lens and Drama shows that where it's a band that
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: didn't want to recreate fragile, they want to create close
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: to the edge, but wanted to move forward.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: They really did.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: What was the response to the album from the fans
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: and the critics and how did the perceptions kind of
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: shift in the years following its release.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't remember where it charted.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: They charted pretty well though in America and in England,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: but I think that a lot of fans weren't aware
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: initially back when it was released that Anderson and Wakeman
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: no longer in the band, and a lot of people
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: bought it and initially thought it was just okay, or
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: it was not okay because it wasn't John and Eric Wakeman.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: I think over the years it has definitely gained a
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: following fans. A lot of fans point to this as
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: being one of their favorite Yes albums, and I think
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: when they toured, they toured maybe it was five years
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: ago for a topographic drama tour with one part drama.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: The first part of the show drama in its entirely,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: the second part teal some topographic oceans in its entirety,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: and those songs were really well received by the audience.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: And also the Topographic Drama live release is a wonderful
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: live release, probably one of the best live leases for
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: a band has a lot of live releases. So it
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: has definitely gained favor among Yes fans, especially those who
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: were you know, who are open to new singers and
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: new ideas, and even those who said there's no Yes
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: about John Andison, some of them have fall into the
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: fold you mentioned.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Not a lot of people knew that John Anderson was
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: out of the band, and it may sound surprising if
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: you're a younger listener right now. But in those days
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: you're talking pre Internet, so you'd only find out about
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: that maybe in a in a trade magazine. Maybe Rolling
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Stone would write about it. But if at that time,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know how popular Yes really was. The popularity
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: is starting to wig a little bit in terms of mainstream,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: wasn't it, So they may not have gotten the coverage.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: I think Tormado, which was the album before this, before
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: the paras sessions, did reasonably well. But again, like you're
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: exactly right, there's no Internet back then. You would find
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: out about bands from Rolling Stone or Circus or wherever
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: you were reading.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: And then this.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Album did reasonably well in America, and the tour where
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: they took Trevor Horn and Jet Downs on the road
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: also did well in America, but in Europe they were
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: peckle a lot. Where's John, Where's John? Where's Reck? So
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: they did good business, but the feedback of the fans
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: was a little bit negative. They toured this album initially,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: and that was probably part of the reason why Horn
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: decided he didn't want to continue with Yes, and he
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: wanted to go into production, and they went their separate ways.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what's interesting Trevor Horn doesn't sing on another
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Yes album, but he's not out of Yes entirely. In fact,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: he's part of a huge commercial peak era of Yes.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Before getting into the twenty eleven album Fly from Here,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: talk about what happened with the band and Trevor Horn
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Following drama.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Trevor Horn decided that he wanted to be a producer.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: He didn't like being on stage. He liked writing, and
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: he still does that a lot actually, and he had
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: some race success with writing was Seal and with some
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: other artists, but he didn't want to be the focal
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: point on stage and Yes wanted a front man, even
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: though Chris Wire could see most of the parts. And
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: there was some talk also later when we get to
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: when you talk about nine on two one five about
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Trevor Ravens singing the parts. But Horn didn't want to
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: do this. He went into production, and at that time
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Yes was kind of fractured, and you had Jeff Downs
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: and Steve Howe working together. Jeff Downs had a concept
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: of a new band and he took it to Steve
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: House saying, hey, why don't we do a supergroup? You
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: me Simon Phillips on drums and we'll find a bass player,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: and that band eventually became Asia with of course Carl Palmer,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Steve how John Wetton, and Jeff Downs.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: And then there was a project Cinema right, and that
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: was a little bit.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: It was centem Up. It's about the same time where
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: Chris Squire and Alan White that partnership which remained till
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: really Chris gre died, wanted to continue with some sort
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: of music. So they reached out to Jimmy Page who
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: was looking for projects. And Paige, of course had led
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Zeppelin was over and he wanted to do something. He
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: wanted to write, he wanted to produce, he wanted to
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: play live, so Born Downs not Notckdowns. So then Squire
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: and White worked with Jimmy Page. They recorded, did some jams,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: worked on a few songs, and then then what happened
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: was that Jimmy Page decided, hey, we need a singer.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: I know this guy. He's really good.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: He was a led Zeppelin. Let's get Robert Plant in there.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: And Robert Plant said there's no way. He just didn't
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: want to do it. They wanted to try to recreate
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: any of led Zeppel stuff. Wasn't ready to go back
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: into doing group work. So that kind of dissolved, and
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: then Chris Quire said, well, I heard about this other
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: singer and guitarist from South Africa named Trevor Raven.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: They brought him in.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: He had a whole bunch of songs partially written, some
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: completely written, and they decided to do a band called
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Cinema and then decided, hey, we need to keep our player.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: What about we go back and ask this guy who
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: was the original keyboard or player of Yes. Tony Canyon
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: joined us, and he did for a little bit. They quit,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: then he came back.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: That is a spot on great job right there pressing,
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: because that is so complicated to go back to that period.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: It's like trying to draw lines and connect these connect
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: the dots to who's and who and how. But yeah,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: eventually the record label, I think, was saying to we
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: need to call this yes. From a commercial standpoint, we
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: got to call this yes. And then John Anderson comes
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: back kind of reluctantly.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Well I don't know how reluctant it was. I'm not
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: sure where John Anderson was when he was going back
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: to Yes. Man, I'm not sure which album was he
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: had coming out. He was never a person who really
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: set the world of fire in terms of solo sales
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: besides the alliance of Sun Hillo. But he always had
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: a vision. And when he went back to your point,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: when he went back, when he went back to Yes
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: with Cinema bicame Yes. He Most of these songs had
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: already been written completely written.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: Some had.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Most of them had lead vocals by Trevor Rabin, some
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: had lead vocals by Chris Squire. So the album was done.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: And what Anderson did for a few songs he added
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: a word or two or phrase, and he got writing credits.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: And then he added his vocals to most of the songs.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: And there's still a few songs of nine on two
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: one five where Trevor Rabin, like UH changes for example,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: where Trevor Rabis sings the most most of the song,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: but Anderson's voice is there and he became an integral
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: part of the Yes. The other part, and I know
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: we're getting away from from UH drama a little bit,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: but the other part is that Rabin and Jeff Rabin
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: and Trevor Horn weren't really buddies, and Rave and Trevor
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Horn and Anderson didn't really get along very well, so
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: it made it a little bit more complex. Then you
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: had the added drama, if you will, of Tony k
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: joining the band when most of the key word parts
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: were played by Rabin. Then he left the band because
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: he was upset with some things, and he came back,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: so all that, Yes.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: Drama.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: Podcast will be back after this.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: Surely you can't be serious. I am serious, and don't
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: call me surely.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: So Anderson he stays with Yes. Big Generator came after
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: day seven, so they had They had a really good
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: run there commercially speaking, through the rest of the eighties.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Then they disbanded again in the nineties.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: And did them nine two five Big Generator. Then there
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: was another split. Part of it was because a Big
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Generator was so difficult to make. It started and I
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: think Paris or somewhere in Europe with Trevor Horn getting
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: the basic tracks down, and there was a lot of
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: conflict between Anderson and Horn and also Horren and Raven.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Then they moved to America. I think they went to
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: la and a bunch of studios in La and Horn
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: that Horn was pretty much gone by then and Trevor
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Raven took over most of the production.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: Uh, they were recording and recording.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: And recording, and by the time they hit the road
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: for a big generator, they were kind of burnt out already,
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: and after big Generators they just said, now we just
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: need to take a little break here, and they took
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: a little break and there was another splint splinter and
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: the van reformed. Part of it being Andreson Bruf of
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Wakeman how, part of it being the Olds, which is.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: Which well, actually it's not true.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Part of it was being Andison Bruf Wakeman. How. I
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: think that was kind of going into the Talk era. No,
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: that's not even right idea, because then we had the
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Union album.
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: Union was nineteen ninety one, right.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Union Happened, which despite his title, isn't really a union
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: because it's really two separate bands. And I think there's
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: a part of the book where I talked and maybe
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: the Kit and Kobodo part where I talk about some
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: of the Union songs, because those are really songs without
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: John Anderson's production input, lyrical input. He may have sang
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: on them, but he wasn't involved in their creation.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Then the album Talk in nineteen ninety four, barely remember
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: that it has John Anderson on It didn't do well.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: The single The Calling.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was an interesting album too, because they were
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: kind of looking for a new sound and new record
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: company and new management and they went with I think
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: it was Victory Records, which didn't have many artists involved
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: with it, but it was a friend of their then
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: man manager. And the album was produced by Raven, mostly
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: written by Raven and Anderson, with one collaboration with Chris
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Squire and also one collaboration with the singer from Super Tramp,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Roger Hodgson. But the label didn't really promote it because
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: they had no money and it really died. And the
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: tour for Talk, which featured Billy Sherwood on second guitar,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: keyboards and bass tour didn't do well either because people
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: didn't know about it.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they had then they had Opened Your Eyes. The
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Ladder would have been studio album number eighteen Magnification.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: Oh.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Actually John Anderson's on that one, okay, and.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Is everything till we get back until Fly, Until we
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: get back to Fly from here.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: And that's yeah, that's where we're at now with the book, right, Yeah. Yeah,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: So a lot a lot happens in those years between
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Drama and twenty eleven's Fly from Here. Yes, his twentieth
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: studio album. This features the first and only appearance of
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: is it ben Wah David, ben Wah David, ben Wah David, Yeah,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: lead vocals.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: And one thing I did in the book Eric was
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: I talked about Fly from Here, I did not talk
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: in detail about the Return Trip five to Here the
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Return Trip, And they're really the same album, but one
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: features ben Wah Davis David the original, and then the
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: other one feature Tranfer Horn on vocals replacing ben Wan David.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Were here raised all of ben Wan David's vocals. He
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: remixed the album and they reissued the album during there.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: I think it was around their fiftieth anniversary times. So
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: it's really the same album. But I prefer the original
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: which had ben Wan David and ben Wan David did
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: appear on the EP from a page. But I don't
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: think you can even find Fly from Here the original
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: on download you Maybe I find a CV of it,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: but not a download.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: You're right, I don't think that's on streaming services. I
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: think it's the other version, yeah, the Return Trip, Yes,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: you're right. I think though if you go on to
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: YouTube it might be there, maybe possibly, so you write
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: quote for Yes. The path to Fly from Here was
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: strewn with challenges and moments of quiet revelation, talk about
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: what led to the album, why John Anderson was not involved,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: and then how do they find Ben Wah?
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Ben Wah was a singer and a cover I did
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Yes This Yest covers, and Chris Squire used to consider
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: him a personnel director free as he found keyboardist, he
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: found guitarist uh and he saw Ben want David I
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: think it was YouTube and he liked his vocal delivery.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Give us a situation where they wanted to go out
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: on tour, but Anderson had a very serious medical condition
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: where he could have come came close to dying, and
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: they had the tour all lined up. It was with
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: it was supposed to be Anderson, Squire White and I
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: believe at the time it was supposed to be wake
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Rick Wakeman and Steve Howe. Anderson couldn't do the tour
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: and they thought, okay, we're going to cancel the tour.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Then they thought, well, we have these days booked. We
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: don't want to lose all this money and goodwill. So
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: they asked Anderson, is okay if we hire a singer
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: temporarily to come men and sing the songs while you recover.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: And he said okay, and.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: They got Ben One David from like I said, Chris
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Squier saw him. Then. As as the preparation went on,
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Rick Wakeman could not do the tour. He had some
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: other obligations and he recommended Steve Howe recommended, why don't
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: we use Oliver Wakeman your son, and Oliver Wakeman's a
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: brilliant keyboardist. That Oliver and Rick Wakeman are going to
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: on tour together next year twenty twenty six. The brilliant keyboardist,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: brilliant composer, he can do the parts, said he said, okay,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: we'll bring him in and we'll have Ben Wall David there.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: So Oliver was expecting work with John Anderson, came in,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: we started working with Ben war David. They practice and
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: they got that together. And as a tour went on,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: it was clear that John Anderson could not join the tour.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: He was not physically able to do that. And then
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: the decision was made by the band We're just gonna
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: continue with Ben One, David and h and so it
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: was a little upset obviously.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: And the seeds of this album they start with a
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: late night conversation between bassist Chris Squire and Trevor Horn,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: who produced the album. There's a long dormant demo from
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: the pre Drama days that they bring back.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there is uh.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: During the Drama tour, they did the Fly from Here
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Sweet live but never recorded it in studio, and there
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: are some live recordings of that Sweet. In fact, there
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: is a box set, a five disc box set by
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Yes officially by Yes, which features that Sweet, which features
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Trevor Horn singing.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: That song live from You're Sweet.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: So they liked that song, and they had written some
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: songs already with Oliver Wakeman and Olivia Weakeman. I had
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: also written some songs for the band to contribute to.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: But they decided, hey, why don't we just go with
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: this Fly from Here suite. We'll expand it, we'll make
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: that into a album and we'll go from there.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: And at one point, while.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: In the studio working with the band, because Oliver was
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: still in the band Alive waken was still in the band,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: they decided, or really was Trevor Horne said, why don't
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: we bring Jeff Downs in because Jeff Downs wrote some
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: of these songs, Most of these songs. He contributed the
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: original keyboard parts. He knows them, he'll be a good addition.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: So they asked Oliver Wakeman to step aside, basically fired him.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: A nearly twenty five minute obty Seed divided into six parts,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: and you say capture the full spectrum of Yes, his
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: musical and emotional journey. How do you feel about ben
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: WA's vocals on that album? Obviously you write about that
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: version in the book and not the other, so I'm
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: assuming you're a fan.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: I'm a favorite of ben Wi David.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: I've seen him live I think three times with Yes.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: He has an He's Canadian French. Canadian and frenchis's first language.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: He speaks English obviously, but he has an ad set,
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: but he really has a good control. He worked his
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: range really well on that album. I'm a big fan
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: of this and what I got. I did buy the
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Return Trip when they came out during their fiftieth anniversary
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: celebration and it's still good. But I can't erase in
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: my mind the original. I just love the original well.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: The Sweet Stood is the centerpiece of this album. There
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: are tracks on the album that you say unfold like
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: individual vignettes, talk about some of the highlights from this,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: you know, Solitaire's one where Steve Howe's virtuoso guitar skills
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: are unfull display. The guy's brilliant What are some of
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: the other tracks you're a fan of?
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: I would say probably my favorite song on Fly from
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Here is Into the Storm, and I think that is
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: the only group composition that the entire group war with
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Oliver Wakeman. It's just a wonderful, froggy song. It has a.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: Harmony lead vocal.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: I think it's Chris Squire and how and ben Wan David,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: but in this in this form is probably my favorite song,
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: and it's a great frog epic. Another standout track is
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: the Man You've Always Wanted Me to Be. And this
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: is a little bit different from what you would expect
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: from Yes, because it really is a rock, soft rock song.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: It is not doesn't have that many prog elements, but
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: it really has great lyrics, great acoustic and electric guitar,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: and it also features Chris Squire on lead vocal and
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: not ben Wan David, and it's a great vocal by
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Squire and the song just really works well.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Preston Fraser, the author of Yes Indeed, Tales from Yes
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: without John Anderson.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: I love that title.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: So what happened with Ben Wong? Only one album.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: Wow, one out well one half albums.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Ben Wah had the same some of the same issues
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: that John Anderson had. He had a I think it
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: was a respiratory infection, and so he was struggling through shows.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: He during some of the shows he was he couldn't sing.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: He had trouble singing period, and they thought that they
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: will give him a break and maybe bring someone else
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: in temporarily. They say with John Anderson and uh, they
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: decided no, We're not going to continue with them. So
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: they decided to not to continue with Ben Wah, and
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: they seeking another singer and they brought in John Davison.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: They brought in John Davison, another singer who oh he
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: had a background working with other bands as well. Uh,
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: he was a big friend, a good friend, maybe his
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: best friend. Of the drummer from the Food from the
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Food Fighters, I think it's Taylor Hawkins and had a
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: really good pedigree and he can handle the riggers of
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: the road as well as the high vocals that let
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Yes fans expected. Another thing about Yes is they really
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: didn't change the keys to their songs.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: They haven't done that.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: A lot of bands, especially Bins, which had been around
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: for twenty thirty forty years, change the keys because it's
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: hard for seventy year old man to sing songs that
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: he was singing in the seventy Oh yeah, hard for
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: thirty ye old man the songs were seting. But Yes
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: doesn't do that. So he can handle the riggers of
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: the road and he can write, and Ben want David
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: could write, but not really wasn't nearless prolific as John
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Manderson or John Davison, And three.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Years later studio album number twenty one for Yes, the
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: first with John Davison, is Heaven and Earth.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Heaven and Earth, Yes.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: The final album to feature Chris Cryer, right.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: The last Chris s Guire album, the first with John Davison,
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: in a return of Roy Thomas Baker to production up
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: actually now the return because he never actually produced a
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: full album. He never did the pair of sessions, just
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: a few songs.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: He produced the Cars and of course Queen.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: And he produced great albums with the Cars and great
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: album with Queen, but he didn't produce a great album
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: with Yes.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well what happened?
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, so there is a autobiography by Steve Howie
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: talks about Roy Thomas Baker. He seemed very disengaged with
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: the band in terms of giving them feedback. He seemed
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: to focus a lot more on the technology as opposed
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: to the arrangements and songs, and yes is a band
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: which from the beginning to today needs a very stronghand studio.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Sometimes that was John Anderson, sometimes that is Steve Howe,
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: sometimes it was Chris Squire. But they didn't have much
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: guidance in the studio, so the arrangements for Heaven and
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Earth really weren't very well fleshed out. I think the
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: drum sound that Roy Thomas Baker got was pretty awful compared.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: To what he's done with other bands.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: And also the keyboard arrangements needed will work. And according
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: to Steve how and Jeff Downs, they just didn't have
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: enough time to finish the album properly. They had a
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: tour commitment. They had to get the album the record,
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: but he won the album out before the tour and
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: that's what happened.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: And this was his last production credit before he passed away.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Was it really I would look I was looking it
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: up Roy Thomas Baker, Yeah, and for those who may
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: not be aware, we mentioned Chris Squire the last album
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: before he passed away. He passed away in twenty fifteen.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: But Roy Thomas Baker, if you look at his discography,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: that's the last one on there. That's it, Heaven and
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Earth twenty fourteen.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Man, that's a shame that he went out on an
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: album which is great. I mean, there are good elements
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: to the album, and there's some good songs, but the
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: arrangements are they're boring. The energy is so restrained and
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: the dramas don't jump out the.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: Way they did in drama.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: So yeah, John Davison's vocals, I think he gets better
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: with each album. On this one though, you do say
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: he arrived not to impersonate but to extend the spirit.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: So satisfied with his performance on.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: The album, yeah, I think he does a great job
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: for his first album with a band of veterans who
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: are have a legacy. Roy Thomas Baker was very focused
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: on John Davison and he auto tuned every vocal that
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: John Davis. This did and according to Steve Howe's biography Autobiography,
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: despite the fact that John Davis was Davidson was perfect
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: pitch perfect and it never had a problem with his
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: pitch in the studio. But Roy Thomas Baker wanted to
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: process his vocals, and that's strange. He sounds well. The
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: hope before your process is strange. Still, the Davidson sounds
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: really good. The background vocals are really good. And that's
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: a weirdness around that too, because the backing vocals for
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Heaven and Earth were produced and arranged and mixed by
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: Billy Sherwood, because by the time they got to the
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: mixing phase of Heaven and Earth, they had had enough
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: of Roy Thomas Baker did want him to mix it,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: did want him to do the backing vocals, so they
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: brought in Billy Sherwood, who had worked with them on
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Keustony Ascension one and two and also worked with them
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: one Union, And of course I toured with them for
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: the Top tour and Billy did finish the alt Mouth
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: for Booked.
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: On Rock podcasts, We'll be back after this, I will.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: We can you, Jassy, I will be back.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Find the bookdown Rock website at bookednrock dot com. There
• 33:17
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• 33:19
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• 33:22
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• 33:40
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• 33:46
  Speaker 1: We mentioned Squire's passing, there was some healing in the
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: process of revisiting some lost pieces. This is for the
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: mini album titled from a Page release in twenty nineteen,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: for previously un release tracks from the lineup that was
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: from eight to twenty eleven. This was some healing, not
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: only for the band but also for fans.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to go back to Heaven Earth for
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: a second, because there is a rumor that there are
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: unreleased tracks that feature Chris prominently on Heaven that were
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: recorded for Heaven their sessions that we haven't seen, including
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: one epic that Jeff Downs had written and the song
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Subway Walls is so well written and played just poorly produced.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: For from a Page you have an energy that she
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: did not have on Heaven and Earth.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: You have other Awakeness keyboards front and center. You have
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: some really stinging the guitar from Steve Howe, and you
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: have some excellent vocals from Ben Wa David, who is
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: sitting in a slightly lower register than John Anderson did
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: or John Davison does. But it worked well had he
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: had four extremely strong songs which may for a good
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: half in the album. So the question is why couldn't
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: it continue that you get a full album out of it.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: But that's the way it goes.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: October first, twenty twenty one, Yes release The Quest, the
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: band's twenty second studio album. John Davison is back on
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: lead vocals, and you write, quote the album's title, The
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: Quest is more than just a name, It's a declaration.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: So tell us about the newest members of the band here.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: How do you feel the music shows a band that's
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: evolving with every generation.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: I think they were very hesitant to do a new
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: music after Heaven and Earth. Heaven and Earth soul reasonably
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: well and it had one single, I believe, but the
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: fans in retrospect don't particularly love that album. I don't
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: know many people are like the Heaven and Earth. So
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: they were hesitant to go back in his studio and
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: do something unless they were ready to do it, and
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: they wanted a firm hand on production, so they kept
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: an internal I mean, you have Steve Howell produced the
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: entire album.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: You have.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Of course, you have Alan White, they're still on drums
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: and Chris Squire on bass. That's sorry, Alan White still
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: on drums, but you don't have Chris Guire because he
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: unfortunately passed away. And you have Billy Sherwood back in
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: the band. Billy Sherwood was there as assignment for the
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Talk tour and also contributed to Union and was a
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: member for the Ladder album as a guitarist. Here he's
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: back on bass, which I think is his preferred instrument.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: That he's an excellent guitarist and also an excellent drummer,
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: and they worked on songs individually. Collectively, you have two
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: members who live in England, two I believe, one who lived,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: two who live in the United States and one who
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: lived No three who live in the United States. So
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: we had the international he's going when they were flying
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: files back and forth digitally, and it's also during the
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: pandemic they were recording, so there was some challenges there,
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: but they came up with a pretty cohesive album with
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: really strong songs and excellent play. And I think it's
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: a stark difference between the drumming and the drum sounds
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: of The Quest and Heaven and Earth. Alan White, this
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: sounds so much better on The questing them to Heaven
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: and Earth, even though he was struggling with some physical
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: problems at that point, and.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: They already started working on what would become the next album,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Mirror to the Sky, before shortly before the release of
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: The Quest. That album, Mirror to the Sky, was released
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: in May of twenty twenty three, they would lose another
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: legendary band member, Alan White died in twenty twenty two.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: We have Jay shellon on drums, John Davison back for
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: a third time. You're write quote, Mirror to the Sky,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: the third and finest movement trilogy that began with Heaven
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: and Earth is not a resurrection. It is a culmination.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: A chrystalis cracks not by nostalgia, but by heat and
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: pressure and a yearning to become more. I do hear
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: the excellence in this album as well. I wonder if
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: it's maybe because Davison has extended time in the band
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: allowed him to maybe find that strike zone. He's really
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: he's channeling John Anderson's spirit here. I think, what do
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: you think, Derek.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: I think that's an excellent way of putting it. He
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: is finding that strike sound. He's comfortable with his role
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: in the band. He's comfortable as a writer, he's comfortable
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: as a singer obviously, and he's also comfortable with the
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: other members him and him and Billy Sherwood have worked
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: together a lot over the years and side projects. They
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: have worked together in their side project group, They have
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: worked together in tribute albums, and he also made an
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: effort during the Quest Ambrrus guy to physically go over
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: tangling and write with downs and write with how and
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: come up with collaborations. So that kind of melded the
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: band together behind the project. One thing that I note
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: about Yes, is that you can there's some albums that
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: they don't they've done, they don't like well, they don't
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: like an album, they don't talk about it, or they
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: talk badly about it and the press, which is a
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: little unusual. But the mirror this guy and the Quest,
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: you feel the passion from the band about the project.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: They all seem to really love it and the Mirrordus
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: guy is difficult because one of their long tenure members
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: died before they started the production of the album, so
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: that was a huge loss.
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: But Jay Shellen jumped in.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: He was on the tours anyway, most of the tours
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: for the prior three years before Alan died, so.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: He didn't really well.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Chapter eight is titled after a phrase Rick Wakeman once
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: came up with twiddly bits. What are twitdly bits? And
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: what are some of the best examples of others applied
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: to ys his best work.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: I was told that that term actually came from Dave's
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: two of the rhythmics.
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna go with.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Rick Wakeman, okay?
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: And I heard him during an interview when he was
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: talking about No it's actually one of his concerts. One
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: was solo concerts when he was talking about a song
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: that he had.
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: Done for somebody.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: I don't remember the artists, but the artist said, well,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: we need some we need to fill the song a
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: little out a little bit.
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: Rick, could you do something?
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: He said, yeah, add some twitally bits here, twinly bits here,
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: add some little sparkles to the song. Uh. And Wakeman
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: was very good at that and I always loved that
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: song because you can hear that and it's playing where
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: he adds these little accents and fills that you may
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: not get from someone like Jeff Down's or if Igor
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Kurashoff or or I don't know, Patrick Moras. Yeah, so
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: I like that that phrase. And I wanted to include
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: some songs which were not necessarily without John, but really
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: didn't have John. For example, Open your Eyes, which is
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: one of my favorite Yes albums, features John anderson leave vocal,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: but according to him is Steve how they weren't really
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: involved in the production album that was Billy Sherwood. They
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: weren't involved even really get writing credit. They weren't involved
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: with the writing of the album that was really Chris
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Squire Billy Sherwood.
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: So I wanted to.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Include some songs I thought really kind of fit the
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: motif of the book, but may have had Jon Anderson's vocal.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: It's a fun chapter.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: I kind of like the songs, and you could talk
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: about I mean, I could have gone on and talked
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: about some of the songs from nine oh two one
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: five where Yeah, Anderson may have sang lead or said
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: on them that he really had very little to do
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: with the songs.
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: Podcast will be back after this.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: Future. Hey guys, thanks so much for checking out the
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: Booked on Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: If you've been listening, thank you so much for your support,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: and make sure you tell a friend, a family member,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: share on social media and let people know about Booked
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: on Rock. And if you do like the podcast, make
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: sure you subscribe give a five star review. Wherever you
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: listen to the Booked on Rock podcast, We're on Amazon, Apple, iHeart, Spotify, Spreaker,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: tune in in on YouTube music. You can check out
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: to the show. A lot of these albums without John
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Anderson hold up against the John Anderson years. In other words,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: if you're gonna rank every Yes album, do you have
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: some of these above John Anderson albums?
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, absolutely yeah. But there's some great John Anderson albums.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Drama is my favorite Yes album, and that's weird because
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: favorite period. Wow close to the edge, Drama's here, edge
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: is there? I love Drama and I think the synth
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: sounds hold up. The guitars are mean, Steve how plays
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: and butt off. I love the synth sounds, I love
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: the good I love the drums, I love the bass parts.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: It works on all It's a band album, works on
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: all cylinders, So I would say yeah, Drama, and I'll
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: probably say Mirror to the Sky.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: Is close to the top of my Yes albums.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: In terms of John Anderson Yes albums, you can't go
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: wrong with Close to the Edge, you can't go wrong
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: with Free Layer. I like Fragile a lot. I still
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: like the solo songs of Fragile as much, and the
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Yes album is a great album.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: They're touring off of Fragile right now.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Yes. I'm going to see them in a few weeks here.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Haven't seen them in by three or four years.
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: So that'll be good.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Oh cool. Where are you from.
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: I'm in Atlanta, Georgia.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, yeah, Atlanta, Georgia. Now, the present state of
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Yes is fascinating to me. It's such as the present
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: state of Yes, but where they're going to be going
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: from here, because this is an interesting discussion just for
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: all of these bands that came out in the sixties
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: and the seventies, you write in chapter nine, quote to
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: understand the present state of Yes is to confront a
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: rare story in modern music, one not driven by nostalgia
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: or the mirror a restation of past glories, but by
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: an ongoing process of creative survival. Where other bands grew
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: brittle with time, Yes absorbed change and turned it into continuity.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: The current lineup Steve How on guitar, the legend, the
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: living Legend, Jeff Downs on keyboards, John Davison on lead vocals,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: Billy Sherdword on bass, Jay Shellon on drums. Steve How
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: not an original myth, but he's been there since nineteen seventy,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: so he's the man. They are about to launch a
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: tour this fall, Like I mentioned, we're gonna be playing
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: all of the iconic nineteen seventy one album Fragile. But
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: you feel that the spirit of this band in the
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: beginning lend perfectly to the idea that they should continue.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: They can continue no matter who's in the lineup, because
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: that's kind of a grateful dead thing. It's the actual
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: essence of the music itself that is really going to
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: carry on through the generations to come, which not every
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: band I think can do. But I think here you
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: have that.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a very good point.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: I mean Rick Wakem was famous for saying something to
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: the effect of Yes can continue can be like a
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: symphony orchestra. Will you bring in different players, add their
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: sensibility to the music, but you keep the heritage and
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: the music moving forward. And I think that's true. I
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: mean you have there is no new band member and Yes,
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: and Jay Shall has been around for five years and
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: he's worked with Billy Sherwood for thirty years. Jeff Dannels
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: has done I don't know six or seven albums with
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Yes so far.
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: Then you have John Davison.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Who's been lead vocalist on three albums, not counting the
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: live albums he's saying on and Steve Hauspinner for fifty
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: some years. So they earned the right to do this music.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: And they're still moving the bar forward in terms of
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: enjoying good new music while honoring the past. So you
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: have those fans who say, I only want to see
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: these certain people, but that's just not going to happen.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: We're lucky to have this music continue to move forward.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: And the prospect of twenty twenties six of having new
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: music is really thrilling.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: Quite frankly, is Steve Howe the guy who makes all
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: the decisions, business decisions or the future of the band, like,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: I hate that. I hope it's not anytime soon. But
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: when he's gone, what happens? Who makes those calls?
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: I don't think Steve how is solely in charge of that.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: I think is a collaboration, but clearly with Alan White
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: gone now and Chris Squire gone, Steve Howe has tremendous influence.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: He's produced the last two albums. I don't know if
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: he's produced on the new album. I guess is he's
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: probably producing it, But I mean the Howard dynamics and
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: gas has changed over the years.
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: Anyway, When you.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Had how you had really Anderson Squire being a focused
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: the Anderson how then Anderson then Raven and how then
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: shifts back and forth.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: So who knows a lot of changing parts. But it'd
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: be nice to see John Anderson maybe come back for
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: at least a song or two. Yeah, no, you don't
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: see it happening.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: I've seen Anderson live two times and it was enjoyable
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: both times, and he has a great career. His album
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: with the ban Geees was fanned fantastic and he's been
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: working on I can't remember the last name of the
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: last album he did with a full band. He's been
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: working on a part two of that album, wherever that was.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: He's he mended fences with Squire before Squire died and
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: howarding him talk. So is that hossible that he will
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: ever appear in stage with them? It's possible. Neither one
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: of them, neither Camp discounts that. But in terms of
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: continuing to move is it four with new albums. They're
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: very happy with John Davison and they want to continue
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: with that as long as they can. And you're right,
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: how is what he's seventy eight. I think he's older. Yeah,
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: So they won't go on forever with him, but they
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: may go on forever.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: But they may go on forever, which is the point,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: is yeah, that it's the music itself that's going to
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: outlive those who have been in it in the past
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: and who are in it right now. Yes, in details
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: from Yes without Anderson. It's out now and you can
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: find it wherever books are sold. And you said look
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: forward at your nearest bookstore very soon. And yeah, independent
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: bookstores look for it there. You can go to bookdown
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: rock dot com to find your nearest independent bookstore and
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: people can find you online.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: Preston Ware, I am at Slang Ofages dot Comslangofages dot com.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: That's also the title of my podcast where I talk
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: about my favorite albums and interview artists. So it's there
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: for someone on Instagram under sling of ages, podcasts and
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Facebook and texts.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: Cool.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: Prestin Fraser, thanks so much for coming back on. Look
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: forward to having you back on again in the future.
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: Good to talk to.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: You are always a pleasure to take care.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: That's it. It's in the books.