Latest / Nonsense with cj little and Jeff Parker / Aliens Part II: Silicon Breath, Biological Grey Goo, & Our Galactic Zoo

Transcript

Aliens Part II: Silicon Breath, Biological Grey Goo, & Our Galactic Zoo · Nonsense with cj little and Jeff Parker

0:00
Welcome to Nonsense Season 4, Episode 21, our big story on our
0:02
second show of the week, I'm Jeff Parker.
0:04
I'm CJ Little. This time we're looking at more
0:06
marks, fewer mindies. Where are all the aliens up
0:08
next? That's easy that the clearance
0:10
section of your local fish market.
0:12
Why would they be there? Are the aliens actually just
0:14
stray cats? If you?
0:15
Think about it, that makes total sense because the one thing I
0:17
would expect from a higher life form would be the ability to
0:20
lick their own ass. Great, this is going to be a fun
0:23
show, isn't it? Right, I mean we're pretty good,
0:25
but if this was intelligent design I feel like I would be
0:27
able to lick my own ass and I can't.
0:29
The best argument for evolution is the fact that we are not
0:32
flexible enough to. Reach our own ass.
0:34
Do I have to stay here for the recording of this?
0:36
Can't I be replaced by an AI today?
0:38
Weird. OK, if aliens aren't real, how
0:40
do you explain? Jello smart guy, Here we go.
0:42
And now everybody knows about my search history.
1:00
Last time on the nonsense big story, we were discussing aliens
1:03
and Drake's equation, among other things, which says there
1:05
is a 97.6% chance that the aliens exist.
1:09
It's 97.6. It's like this really precise
1:12
number that we're supposed to believe is some true probability
1:15
thing because it's an equation. Yeah, if I've learned anything
1:17
from watching Rain Man is that you want your number to be very
1:19
specific and exact and people will believe you and leave you
1:21
alone. OK, before we go into that
1:23
though, I want to say it. I trash the Black Scholes
1:25
equation pretty good last time he did because all my finance
1:27
friends have all, like, gotten on my back going what?
1:29
What are you talking about? What's wrong with Black Scholes?
1:31
What's your problem? Sure.
1:32
First of all, you know, I had to unfriend all of them because
1:34
really, you believe in Black Scholes 'cause you believe in
1:36
ghosts? If you do, let me just explain.
1:38
Very quickly, boy. Very quickly.
1:40
Yeah, very quickly. The insanity of Black Scholes.
1:42
Look. I'm a math guy.
1:43
I like math, yes, but I'm gonna just not out for this one.
1:46
You just do your thing. I'm gonna just wake me up when.
1:48
You promise it will be very poke.
1:49
Me with a stick. Black Scholes assumes the stock
1:51
prices follow a smooth bell curve and in reality markets do
1:54
nothing like that. Sure they have fat tails.
1:57
They have extreme impossible crashes that happen way more
2:00
than the math predicts. Also, one of the black shells
2:02
variables is volatility, and I promise you a highly volatile
2:05
option has a very different value on the nadir of its
2:08
volatility than on its peak. The value changes massively.
2:12
Nassim. Talab has entered the chat.
2:13
OK, so my point is, yeah. And it applies to Drake's
2:16
equation too is that just because you can mash a bunch of
2:18
numbers together until it's do some some math on those
2:21
variables doesn't mean you actually end up with anything of
2:23
value the the 97.6%. There's so much randomness that
2:27
goes into getting that number that by the time you get that
2:30
number it's useless. We could just say it's a non 0
2:33
probability. OK, but your take away for the
2:35
finance Bros listening is by crypto, right?
2:37
That's your take away. I want to make sure I understand
2:39
it. Yes.
2:39
I was just confused. I'd I'd nodded out there
2:41
briefly. I got right back to it though,
2:43
man literally we got to get back to aliens to be more grounded.
2:46
That's the world we're in right now.
2:48
We're so far off the path. Go ready, aliens, Go I.
2:51
Understand your general point. I feel like you I want the math
2:55
on the Drake equation to be better and I would generally
2:57
agree with you. No, I.
2:58
Want the result to sound less precise.
3:00
I want to the result to give me something that I can believe in
3:03
like it's non 0 but do you want? Like a high.
3:05
I don't want it to give me 97.6 because that sounds like there's
3:09
some real value to that number and there is not that number is
3:12
based on like. Would you be vagarities?
3:14
So would you be, would you be happy if there's like a high
3:16
water and a low watermark like would that would that because
3:19
that's pretty easy. If there's a range.
3:21
Yeah, no, isn't that what you just?
3:22
Said the range is still non zero.
3:23
You can't get more precise than that.
3:25
You can't get more precise than non 0.
3:27
No, not really. Yeah, no, the difference between
3:29
.1% and 99.9% is pretty significant.
3:33
Those are both non 0. Yes, but Drake's equation
3:35
doesn't give us anything more. Precise than non. 0 Drake's
3:38
equation is basically saying there are so many, these are the
3:41
odds of there being aliens. Yeah, just in the Galaxy, but in
3:44
other places besides. Earth.
3:46
All of the universe. It's not like you have a finite
3:48
amount that you are saying. OK, yeah, The, the Milky Way.
3:50
Yeah. What are the odds?
3:51
We can, we can sort of see the Milky Way.
3:53
We can sort of count how many, you know, celestial bodies are
3:55
in the Milky Way. That part's good.
3:57
But we don't just stop there with Drake's equation.
3:59
We're saying all of the galaxies everywhere.
4:01
Yeah, we we don't even. We can see those things well,
4:05
how? Do you know we can see them all?
4:06
You think you can see them all, but you have no idea if you're
4:08
seeing them all. Or even better, you don't know
4:10
if you are seeing them all. Of course, you may be seeing
4:13
every single one, and the ones you extrapolating that you have
4:16
that you aren't seeing, those may not exist at all, may only
4:19
go out so far. And then beyond that, there's
4:21
nothing. All right.
4:21
There are no stars. I'm just saying 97.6 is an
4:25
awfully specific number for something that we don't.
4:28
It's that that's basically isn't OK or not definite.
4:31
We don't. Understand, I get it done.
4:32
You want a round, let's just call it 98%.
4:34
Is that better? Can we move on just that's?
4:36
Better. That's the issue.
4:36
My issue was the 10th of a percent.
4:38
That's a .6. It was just too accurate.
4:40
Now we're good. The the take away I would like
4:43
you to take from from the Drake's equation, yes, is that
4:46
it is extremely likely that there is other intelligent life
4:50
in the universe, period, full stop.
4:52
Like can we get you there or is it still not?
4:55
Is that not feasible because there's too many?
4:57
Oh, no, no, I'm, I'm totally down for that.
4:58
But I'm gonna to get there. I'm gonna say there's a nonzero
5:01
probability that there is. There are aliens in the universe
5:04
who are intelligent. Great, because 98% is nonzero,
5:07
so is 97 point. Six, it happens to be ridiculous
5:10
that you try to give it that kind of precision from the
5:12
variables that you put into the equation, which are all like, I
5:15
think it's more than three. So you're happy at nonzero?
5:19
Yeah, Yeah. And I'm happy it's something
5:20
greater than that. OK.
5:21
Let's just we'll just move, move forward with that because I feel
5:23
that the math is, is is unequivocally confirmed it's in.
5:28
I know you think the the math is impenetrable, it's just it's an
5:31
absolute perfect equation in every way.
5:33
Yeah, I've been trying for 47 years to penetrate the math and
5:35
it's just not so wiggles away from you before we talked about
5:38
the math that you clearly don't enjoy.
5:40
No, I do enjoy a little bit. It's ridiculous.
5:42
About the geology, which I thought was fascinating that
5:45
that there's actually some we believe there to be some
5:48
constraint. Life love is a function of
5:50
geology. Which love that.
5:51
Amazing, yeah. Today I feel like we should talk
5:53
about a couple other things, Biology of the little green men,
5:56
because that's something I think a lot of people not necessarily
5:58
talk about, but just make assumptions about.
6:00
And I think it's interesting to to tear those apart.
6:02
If they're green men, is their blood copper based instead of
6:05
iron based? Is that why they're green?
6:06
When? They're born.
6:07
They're like a coppery color. And then as they're exposed to
6:09
the elements, they turn more green.
6:10
They. Tarnish.
6:11
Yeah, that. They tarnish.
6:13
Wow, that's that's pretty funny actually.
6:14
Like the other night, my little guy said, Danny, what color is
6:17
your hair? And I said blonde and he said no
6:19
it's not, it's blonde and grey. I corrected you I.
6:22
Just. Looked at it but I was like.
6:23
Really. And you're also out of the will.
6:25
Yeah, exactly. Get back in your cage.
6:27
OK, So the biology, the biology of these guys, we talk, which I
6:29
think is interesting. We should talk a little bit
6:31
about the welcoming committee that we have established here on
6:34
Earth, because that is interesting to think about as a
6:36
good or bad Carl. Sagan is responsible for all
6:39
those welcoming flares we've sent.
6:40
Up. Yeah, well, I mean flare slash
6:43
luncheon invitation. Exactly the buffet right here on
6:46
this green planet. Right here it's.
6:48
All you can. Enjoy this.
6:50
One and then a little bit of chat.
6:52
This is a much deeper topic, but if we have time, I think a
6:53
little bit of conversation about why would why would it some
6:56
intelligent life from even want to come here.
6:58
What could be some possibility? Sure, like those are the three.
7:00
Things, once they see black Shoals, they know don't go
7:03
there. They don't just let's just skip.
7:05
That, but the Flon's really good now.
7:07
Black Shoals just. Got me on the planet that has
7:09
Flon that doesn't have black Shoals.
7:10
Just keep going. All right, let's talk about
7:12
biology. Evolution needn't mimic Earth's
7:14
blueprints. Alien biology might swap carbon
7:16
for silicone or water for ammonia.
7:18
Thrive in crushing pressures or frozen voids or 400° habit
7:22
trails. Forget little green men.
7:24
True extraterrestrials likely possess sensory arrays and
7:27
metabolic pathways. We can't imagine life redefined
7:30
by laws of a different size. Well.
7:32
Yeah, I mean, that's what's interesting is the entire, their
7:34
entire existence would be almost certainly completely different
7:39
from ours. Do you really think that?
7:41
Yes, I've seen Star Trek. When you travel billions of
7:43
miles through space, you end up with somebody who just looks
7:45
like you. Well, there's that brown guy on
7:47
there too. One, yeah. 1 It was the 60s.
7:49
What do you want? I've also seen Star Wars, which
7:51
is a little more diverse. Yeah.
7:53
And much more of a range of size and things that I would believe
7:55
are. Size and shape and things, yeah,
7:57
if you go to the the base of the biology, we'll talk about size
8:00
here in a second, right. But I think something that's
8:02
interesting, it seems most likely that some other
8:06
intelligent species would not share a common ancestor with us.
8:09
That seems most like. 97.6% chance no.
8:13
No, no, no. You're a dog with a bone.
8:16
Here's the thing it. Seems talk faster.
8:19
This is just 21 minutes. I know I'm.
8:20
Trying and you're just digging me holes.
8:22
Here is what you're doing. It seems most likely that we
8:25
evolved from matter only within our solar system.
8:29
That seems most like the things that have crashed here were from
8:32
billions of years ago. So we've evolved and we've
8:34
continued to refine on things that were here.
8:36
Very few things from outside of our solar system even come into
8:40
our solar system. Yes, it seems most likely like
8:42
we've evolved from things here and that is what we know of all
8:45
life on on earth and and arguably anything in the solar
8:48
system we think would look very similar to us from a a makeup
8:51
perspective. Sure And we think about things
8:52
outside of our solar system, extraterrestrial life.
8:55
There's this thesis. People are like, Oh well, they
8:57
could bring like some crazy infection like COVID that we've
9:00
never seen before. Sure.
9:01
I don't actually think that would be the.
9:02
Biggest DNA wouldn't line up with our DNA would never yeah
9:04
exactly infect us exactly so I. I don't.
9:06
I don't think the danger would be an infection in the
9:09
traditional sense, but rather complete toxicity or even
9:12
anaphylaxis that that would be the bigger.
9:14
Like it wouldn't be the flu that they bring us.
9:16
It could be that the byproducts of their biology could be
9:19
catastrophic for for humans or for all life here.
9:22
Right. I dated anaphylaxis, by the way,
9:23
in high school. Yeah, I.
9:24
Remember I met her brother Bruce once the.
9:26
Whole flaxis family is lovely. There could be a world, I'm not
9:28
saying this is the case, but there could be a world where
9:30
alien microbes might just produce, like, as a byproduct of
9:34
their existence. Cyanide.
9:36
Sure. That could just be a natural
9:37
byproduct of their metabolism, which means their presence could
9:40
be toxic regardless of their intent.
9:42
Yeah, like they could just show up with like a really nice bundt
9:44
cake that they want to. Give us we come in peace.
9:47
Yeah, right. Sure.
9:48
Sure. And then they exhale and we all
9:49
die. Sure.
9:50
Like that's not science fiction. That could be a thing.
9:52
That could actually be a thing. They.
9:53
Inhale oxygen, but they exhale cyanide.
9:55
Oh. OK, You don't know they inhale
9:57
oxygen. I mean, they could just sweat
9:58
out cyanide. I don't know.
9:59
I've been to 24 Hour Fitness. Some of those guys don't smell.
10:01
Very good. No, sure.
10:02
So they maybe it's cyanide, I'm not sure.
10:04
I don't get close enough to find out is my point.
10:06
Sure. So we don't know in in our
10:07
immune system, by the way, being exposed only to things that have
10:10
been on our planet so far could react with some sort of
10:13
anaphylactic response to just a single spore or cell from one of
10:16
these things. Like sure, it might even be
10:18
cyanide. It might just be their makeup,
10:19
just their cells. Sure could be could be something
10:21
that are that are are are terrible.
10:23
Now, by the way, this is the happy outcome.
10:25
That's the one where I'm like, oh, OK, they just sneeze cyanide
10:27
and we die. There's this unhappy outcome
10:29
that is commonly referred to as the biological grey goo.
10:32
Have you heard about? This, no, but I love that that's
10:34
the happy outcome is they just exhale.
10:36
And I'll die. Yeah, no, that's the good one.
10:38
That's the one that you're like, yeah, that sounds good.
10:40
There's a possibility where in like an alien microorganism
10:45
could be capable of breaking down hydrocarbons or glucose
10:48
without needing any specific receptors, which what that means
10:51
is they could be like a non selective decomposer, which
10:54
means just their existence could breakdown human tissue at a
10:57
fundamental chemical level. Yeah.
10:58
So your immune system won't even have a chance.
11:00
It would just be like, and that's why they call it the grey
11:02
goo. Like you would just you would
11:03
just dissolve us into some pile of nothingness.
11:06
And there is now this is really little sci-fi where you guys be
11:09
like, well, maybe they're just here to harvest raw elements.
11:11
And that's just what they do. They just come in and they
11:13
sneeze and then you just melt like the witch in Wizard of Oz.
11:16
Sure, sure. That could be a real thing.
11:18
That's the what I would call the unhappy outcome.
11:20
OK, that could be a thing. Right.
11:22
They're both pretty unhappy, but OK, I don't know.
11:24
I'd rather take my shot trying to avoid the cyanide than the
11:27
magic melting goo that you go near and you just and you just
11:30
meltdown into nothing. OK, but that's all still carbon
11:33
based life forms you're talking about.
11:34
What about maybe what about non carbon based life forms?
11:37
You've got to have other things that you can put make life out
11:39
of, right? Well.
11:40
We don't know. My intuition is yes, yeah.
11:43
And it's seems like there's, it's not a certain no, it seems
11:45
like it's a possibility. We suspect if you're not carbon
11:49
based, the next most likely thing you'd be based on would be
11:51
silicone. I was going to say aluminum, but
11:53
silicone is probably better. It's pronounced aluminium first
11:55
of all. You heathen silicone would be
11:57
the next most likely. Element on the periodic table.
12:01
It's literally one row down. Thank you.
12:03
We make these assumptions. This is part of what I want to
12:05
talk about in the biology. We make these assumptions that
12:06
extraterrestrial life would follow some sort of humanoid
12:09
body plan. I didn't.
12:10
Assume that I have no assumption of that.
12:12
But, but most people do No, you don't.
12:13
But most people do. Most people make an assumption
12:15
that like. And if you think about what
12:16
you've seen in science fiction over the past 203 hundred years,
12:19
cause. Casting is easier.
12:20
How many people can you call out and get 5 legged creatures?
12:24
It's big casting, Big casting got their hand in there and said
12:27
give them two arms. Meanwhile, they're fighting
12:29
against big costume. Who wants it the other way?
12:32
No, but generally speaking, we think of like when, when, when
12:34
we think about animals, like, oh, they're going to be green
12:37
and have longer arms, but there's still this sort of
12:39
anthropocentric bias. We still think you're going to
12:42
look like us 'cause it's what we know, head, 2 arms, 2 legs.
12:44
But like that makes no sense. Parallax is pretty useful.
12:47
Parallax 2 eyes, sure, until you see like a fly's eye and what
12:50
they can do it and then you're like.
12:52
Do you see a family like you know it's better the 1000?
12:54
Eyes. Wow I got gypped.
12:56
Those eyes are amazing. Earth we've, we've all sort of
12:59
evolved from a a similar path. So we have similar structures,
13:03
even an unrelated species, right?
13:04
Like sure, the eyes of octopi and humans still.
13:06
Very similar light sensitive cells, Yeah, and they look
13:08
similar. Because we share sort of a
13:10
common ancestor and we're all sort of this carbon based life
13:12
form. So when you think about
13:14
independent origins or origins that are back billions of years,
13:17
all bets are off. You're starting over.
13:19
Yeah. Silicone is the most frequently
13:20
cited alternative for carbon, as you mentioned earlier, because
13:22
its ability to form 4 bonds and its abundance in planetary
13:25
crusts. There's a lot of silicone out
13:27
there. And as you know, more most
13:29
recently anything with silicone and it is now 4 times as
13:31
expensive. So all of the aliens have gotten
13:32
more expensive too. Wow.
13:34
That's remarkable. But here's where it gets crazy,
13:36
because the only thing we've ever known in real life is
13:39
carbon based life forms. If you think about the physical
13:41
constraints of silicone based life forms, yeah, they'd be
13:44
radically different. A primary issue is the oxidation
13:47
of silicone. So as a carbon life form, right
13:48
We we inhale oxygen, we exhale CO2 yeah, the gas dissipated
13:53
easily. No problem happens.
13:54
We have a cycle easy. Sure.
13:55
Silicone life utilizing oxygen, I'm not saying that it would,
13:58
but if silicone life utilized oxygen, it would produce
14:00
silicone O2 sand, which would be solid ports or sand yeah, sand.
14:05
Their byproduct would be. Sand, Kevin, you're blowing
14:08
sand. Get out of my house.
14:09
It's I can't clean this up. Every day my kids come home from
14:12
school, their shoes are full of sand from the sandbox.
14:14
I feel like it would just be that right?
14:16
Like you invite over your neighbor from the extra Galaxy
14:19
and they sneeze and it's just sand everywhere on your coffee
14:21
table. Well, no.
14:22
It would fill up your house. It would slowly fill up your
14:24
house. You couldn't live in a cause
14:26
it's a solid, it's not a gas. It'd be.
14:27
Like the scene in Real Genius, but instead of popcorn, it's
14:30
sand. Just sand coming up, blowing out
14:31
the window. Yeah, right, right.
14:32
Eventually you'd you'd have no room.
14:34
It'd be really hard to hide them.
14:35
How would you hide one of your little aliens?
14:36
The sands just pouring out everywhere.
14:38
They'd have to live outside. That's kind of insane to think
14:40
about it. Again, we have no idea of
14:41
knowing if that's the case or not, but just the of what we
14:44
understand of of of chemistry. That's what would happen.
14:46
What? It likely necessitates is a
14:48
completely different respiratory system.
14:50
Like it wouldn't we don't even know like it could utilize high
14:53
temperature solvents or even molten salt to just keep their
14:56
metabolic byproducts in a liquid state.
14:58
Yeah, they could just be like living rocks or crystals.
15:01
They could just have extremely slow metabolic rates and a total
15:04
lack of fluid. So no soft tissue like what
15:06
we're used to that's associated with with sort of the carbon
15:09
based life forms of this planet and women.
15:10
That's carbon silicone that I feel like we're we're down crazy
15:13
path on that. OK, let's just talk about size
15:15
for a minute. The silicone carbon thing is
15:17
interesting to me. It's hard for me to to wrap my
15:20
brain around, yeah, thinking about the size of the aliens,
15:23
like their actual physical shape and size.
15:25
Yes, I remember this and remember the scene in Men in
15:27
Black when they're trying to find like the Galaxy and the
15:29
whole Galaxy was in the cat's collar.
15:31
Sure. I always love that because it's
15:33
such a it's such a fascinating example of of how different our
15:36
sizes could. Be It's the world that lives on
15:38
the puffball weed in Horton Hears a Who.
15:40
Yeah, exactly. We suspect and really our
15:43
detection methods are tuned to civilizations that operate on
15:46
the on roughly the same size and time scale as humanity, because
15:49
again, that's all we really know.
15:51
It could be that, you know, while physical laws are are
15:53
universal, we suspect they're universal.
15:55
You could have this life that's emerged with completely
15:58
different scale because of the system that they're in.
16:01
For example, we just talked about the the collar thing,
16:03
right. On a high gravity world or in
16:05
environments where resources are atomic, a civilization could
16:07
exist on the scale of a of a terrestrial microscopic colony.
16:10
Like the entire interstellar empire could fit in inside a
16:13
single asteroid, of course, right?
16:15
The whole thing, like their entire existence could be inside
16:18
like a single asteroid, which we wouldn't be able to see, right?
16:20
Nothing in SETI would would give us the ability to see that
16:22
because we're not looking for something that's that small.
16:24
Sure, now go the other way. What if you go to like the macro
16:27
scale organisms like massive size?
16:30
We have low density environments.
16:32
It could be that, like in a quote, Organism could move so
16:35
slowly that a thought takes centuries by our time.
16:39
I'm getting that way by the way. I know we're all getting there,
16:41
aren't we? But like it would render their
16:42
communication indistinguishable from background cosmic noise
16:46
because a thought, a single thought that you and I could
16:49
have in minutes or, or you know, seconds or minutes, yeah, hours
16:51
sometimes could take centuries. So you'd have no way to to, to
16:55
process that as humans, you you'd have to have SETI running
16:58
for 1000 years to get the output of their thought.
17:00
Sure, those are, are not unlikely.
17:02
Those are, those are possible. We don't really know what's come
17:04
out. So the size could be all over
17:05
the place. 97.6% chance all. Right.
17:08
Dog with a bone. So they could be really big,
17:09
they could be really small. That's my point.
17:11
And they're probably not shaped like us.
17:12
They're probably not the same. Size thinner, better looking,
17:14
fatter. Worse looking really.
17:16
I suspect there's roughly a 98% chance that aliens would not
17:20
look attractive to us. OK, I'm going to call the little
17:22
equation. Pretty sure the answer to be
17:24
98%. The rounded version is the
17:26
little equation. Rounded version.
17:30
That's funny for two reasons. Exactly.
17:32
Yes. We are trying desperately,
17:34
though, to contact whatever is out there.
17:36
Yes. It's not like we've sat around
17:37
here quietly. We've literally think that's a
17:39
good idea. I don't know.
17:40
We have literally sent spaceships with music and
17:42
pictures of Earth. We've hawked the place like
17:44
we're bad real estate agents. Yeah, we have broadcast our DNA
17:47
and binary. We've etched our anatomy into
17:49
golden records and we've flung radio waves into the void.
17:52
We're a species shouting hello across the light years,
17:55
desperate for an echo. It's our grandest gamble, a
17:58
cosmic message in a bottle proving we were here and we
18:01
mattered. Well, I don't know about you,
18:02
but when I was a kid, I had pen pals, and that was always weird.
18:05
Like you're just sending a thing off to somebody in a foreign
18:07
land. You have no idea what you're
18:08
gonna get back. Yeah.
18:09
And now we're doing this cosmically.
18:11
Yeah. I love the idea.
18:13
I I love the idea of in our lifetime, getting to observe or
18:16
even meet extraterrestrial life. Love it.
18:19
Yes, yes, awesome. What are we don't even know the
18:21
odds of their size or their shape or their color.
18:23
What are the odds that they're going to be as excited to see us
18:26
in a friendly manner? What if they just eat the earth
18:28
like is one piece of little popcorn and they just pop it in
18:31
their mouth and the whole thing is gone?
18:32
Well, that's fun. No, you're just in the digestive
18:34
system. It's fine.
18:35
I don't know that it's a great idea to send out the message.
18:37
I guess they're probably going to find you anyway, so maybe it
18:39
doesn't really matter. I don't know what they would
18:41
think of the Earth at all. Like what?
18:43
And what would they want? And this is where I think the
18:45
welcoming committee is, is mildly concerning.
18:47
So you're talking about like Voyager, right?
18:49
I think you were referencing Voyager.
18:50
Like, that was the this that we sent out.
18:51
Right. And yeah, I'm not even sure we
18:53
did a good job on Voyager. So what year was Voyager?
18:55
Voyager was like the 70s. It was a long time ago.
18:57
Give us a break. We did the best we could.
18:58
It had no mention of reality on the TV.
19:01
For those who don't know, the the Voyager we put out, we made
19:03
like an album, like on a gold disc, right?
19:06
Something that we thought. Would be golden record.
19:07
Yeah, this golden record and we encoded a sample of humanity.
19:10
And why gold? I think it was the the most
19:13
likely to survive. I think it was the most durable
19:16
thing we could put out there. I love the idea that we made an
19:18
attempt. This is all Sagan, right?
19:19
I love that we made an attempt to try to encode a sampling of
19:22
humanity on this disc. Yeah.
19:24
In hindsight, folks say, well, we were overly rosy, right?
19:27
We we omitted all the bad stuff and there's talk about wars or
19:31
diseases or, or the environmental crisis that that
19:33
sort of defines our species. It was just like all the all the
19:36
good stuff. 'Cause we're, we're selling the
19:38
place again, I said. Like we're Hawking bad real
19:40
estate. I mean, we're, we're just
19:42
painting the rosy pictures. We're not talking about the bad
19:45
plumbing. Yes, rosy pictures, but also
19:47
some of it is like discombobulated, right?
19:49
I think they encoded something like 55 languages on the thing.
19:52
Yeah. And I don't think there's really
19:53
a map. Like I could I could expect
19:55
someone that listens to this thing, doesn't know anything
19:57
about humanity. Just be like, what?
19:59
What's wrong with these people? Like they're yeah.
20:00
How do you talk? You got 55 non congruent
20:03
languages. Just sounds like chaos.
20:04
But also sound effects like tigers roaring and and, you
20:08
know, oceans and things like totally with no, with no real
20:10
context, those things could be what what am I hearing?
20:13
What is what is they're trying to say to me exactly.
20:15
Be awesome. If the one thing they could
20:16
understand on the records was whatever the tigers were saying
20:19
things we don't even understand. And they totally get that.
20:22
That's the part they get. Oh, he wants a pizza.
20:24
There's one bit track 63 that was just 1200 baud handshake
20:29
that they get perfect. Everything else they're just
20:31
like, Nope, they're like, oh, E 71.
20:33
Wow, these people talk slowly. Oh, that's us.
20:35
Yeah. They're cosmic giants.
20:36
So then we're talking fast. Yeah.
20:38
What else? There's some other crazy stuff
20:39
on there. I think we encoded some pictures
20:40
on there. There's like 100 plus pictures
20:42
that we encoded on there. Yeah.
20:43
I don't know what they would make of it, but I think more the
20:45
point that we sent it out was was more odd, right.
20:48
Like I, I don't, I don't, I, I think you want to know the
20:50
stranger that you're about to give your phone number to before
20:53
you, before you send it to it's. Just a message in the bottle.
20:55
It's nothing. It's worse.
20:57
They're casting it out, thinking maybe some civilization and at
21:00
some point picks this up and can somehow get a little picture of
21:02
who we were or or maybe even who we are, but more likely who who
21:06
we were. Well, yeah, but we also gave
21:07
them a map. We did.
21:08
We told them where we are. Right.
21:10
I think we gave the sun relative to like, 14 pulsars so that they
21:13
could find us. Yeah, I don't think that's
21:15
great. Like you put your message in the
21:16
bottle to be like, oh I live at 123 Main St.
21:19
I leave the back door unlocked to come over anytime.
21:21
He's under the mat. He's under the mat.
21:22
Yeah. I sleep on my stomach.
21:24
Terrible. Like why would we say?
21:25
This, I don't remember. Carl Sagan could tell you he's
21:27
passed away, but he's the one. He's the one who?
21:29
Knew I think the intent was we're we're optimistic about
21:32
extraterrestrial life, then we want to see them.
21:34
But like that whole thing could just look like, you know when
21:36
you go to you know, like you go to the store and you come out
21:38
and there's like one of those Flyers tucked on your car and
21:40
it's like a for the the all you can eat Korean BBQ.
21:42
It's like 1899. All you can create sure like
21:44
this could be that. This could just be a lunch flyer
21:47
that we send out into space. Well, of course, of course.
21:49
That they're gonna look at Yeah, like those guys look delicious.
21:51
And they're gonna come here and and and eat us or turn us on to
21:54
grey goo to harvest our carbon atoms.
21:56
You. Have a very dark view of the
21:57
aliens. Well, no, I'm just saying we
21:59
don't know. By the way, if they can get
22:01
here, then there is certainly no defense we have against them,
22:04
period, Full stop. OK, Like there's going to be
22:06
some Mega Warrior out there with their pepper spray and then they
22:11
just get. Eaten.
22:11
But it's possible that they have no technology.
22:14
The only technology they've been able to create is a solar sail.
22:18
And as their star supernovas. And they, as their last hope,
22:21
must just project themselves out into space.
22:23
Yeah, they sailed. They don't have any other
22:25
technology. This.
22:26
All they have is a solar sail. Only thing they were able to
22:28
figure out. Sure.
22:29
And they come out to Earth. And so now, no, they, they
22:30
they're not gonna destroy us. They're gonna be like, you know,
22:33
we need a place to stay. I'm so sorry.
22:34
Is there a place we can rent? I love you're like, they don't
22:36
have the metric or imperial systems.
22:38
All they have is a small nuclear reactor.
22:40
That's all they have. They haven't mastered any
22:41
figured. Out, that's all they're just.
22:43
The solar sail. Somehow they're able to to
22:45
transit galaxies. Yeah, but no, all they have is a
22:48
solar sail. That's all they have.
22:49
That's it. And they're just looking for a
22:50
cup of sugar because they want to make cookies for their
22:52
grandmother. They that's it.
22:53
That's all they want. That's all they want.
22:55
You do raise indirectly a great question, which is why would
22:58
they even want to come by? Yeah, why would they bother to
23:01
come by even if they knew there was life?
23:02
And once they'd seen the brochure from the Voyager, yeah,
23:05
you'd think they'd go. You know, there's other places
23:07
we can probably want to visit first.
23:09
There's a lot of places we want to go first.
23:11
We heard the pressure on Venus is quite high.
23:13
We kind of want to go there. Let's do that.
23:14
Let's. Do that before we go here.
23:16
No, I mean, it's fun to postulate why they would want to
23:18
come here. Certainly nobody knows.
23:19
It's totally possible they aren't tourists, they're
23:21
actually historians, and they want to come and learn about
23:24
this. Yeah, crazy laboratory of
23:25
biological improv that is the Earth.
23:28
Sure, in a sterile post scarcity cosmos, our messy cocktail of
23:31
ambition, art, self destruction, it's the ultimate novelty.
23:35
So they're interested in it from that perspective.
23:37
It's totally possible. Instead of just people who like
23:39
need some place to go, they're like curious about what's this
23:42
weird thing happening third rock from the sun.
23:44
Whatever is happening out there that that's the weird one, go to
23:47
that one. So they could be interested in
23:48
coming to witness like the spark of a species that builds
23:51
cathedrals while still learning to share.
23:53
That's the odd combination that makes us interesting.
23:56
Yeah, we're still we're still learning to share.
23:58
That's, that's, I mean, we, we suspect it's they're probably
24:01
not here for resources. That seems unlikely to me,
24:04
because why would you come here for resources?
24:07
An awful lot of other planets would have, but all yet more
24:09
interesting. Resources.
24:10
We're also a giant gravity pit. We're a big heavy planet.
24:14
If you if you need water and precious metals, you're better
24:16
off going to the asteroid belt. Yeah, it's much easier to
24:18
collect that there. So I don't think they would come
24:20
here for that, at least not for the raw materials.
24:22
I think it's interesting though, you're talking about like the
24:25
the the nature of what we've built it.
24:27
It could be that something like, and I think this is the
24:30
physicist, what's his name, Paul Davies had suggested that it
24:32
could be culture itself, like the information, the culture of
24:35
the self understanding could be the rarest commodity in the
24:38
universe and then might be coming.
24:39
You're trying to understand that from us.
24:41
Who knows? Or not.
24:42
We could be the least culture. Yeah, civilization in the
24:44
universe too, but isn't. It a crazy thing about if we
24:46
were the most cultured civilization in the universe,
24:48
we're like, oh, we're doing pretty good I guess.
24:50
Except my hunch is if you are able to manage intergalactic
24:54
travel, you probably have evolved much more culture than
24:57
we have. The two kind of have to happen
24:59
hand in hand. You would think, yeah, don't
25:01
know, but we also might be way far behind, right?
25:03
To your point, if they are, if they have developed farther and
25:06
they are many, many, many iterations beyond where we are,
25:09
they might want to come back to look at a primitive species.
25:11
Kind of like going to the zoo, Sure.
25:12
And just see how we interpret the cosmos.
25:14
So much like going to a zoo, I think.
25:16
That's the more likely answer is that we are like the galactic
25:19
zoo that they just want to observe, which they might be
25:21
doing now, who knows? We admit all this stuff.
25:24
It's not like the light doesn't not bounce off us.
25:26
Yeah. I mean, there is the like the
25:27
presumption. This is the sci-fi presumption
25:30
notion that everyone I think always makes or ends up coming
25:32
to is like, oh, it's all just a giant Trojan horse.
25:34
We've seen this pattern before there.
25:35
It's the Mars Attacks, right? They're going to come here and
25:37
be like, oh, hey, we're your friends.
25:39
We come in peace. But really, they're just here to
25:41
to harvest whatever. Our pearls, Sure.
25:44
I still think not just because of the Drake equation, I still
25:47
think it's, it is not extremely likely.
25:48
I think it's certainty that there's other intelligent life
25:51
out there. I just don't know one, if it's
25:53
alive currently or not. And two, I highly suspect we
25:56
will never ever be able to see it or contact it.
25:58
That's my, that's my, that's my. I take away from this.
26:00
All right, we have to get out of here quickly.
26:02
Before we do, have you seen or read anything good this last
26:04
week? As we mentioned earlier in this
26:06
in this episode, 1977's Voyager 2 space probe carried a
26:10
phonographic disk with messages of peace inviting alien
26:13
civilizations to Earth. Did we?
26:14
Keep a copy of that record here. Is there some way we can hear or
26:17
go play with what what? Whatever's on that.
26:19
Not only do we know what's on it, I own a remake of it.
26:22
They remade it, a group raised some money about 10 years ago to
26:26
remake them, and I actually own it sitting on my desk right
26:28
here. Oh, that's cool.
26:29
One of the coolest things. Can you play it back?
26:30
What is it? Well, they give you all the
26:31
digital content, so I have all the content on it digitally and
26:34
then you have the actual encoding of the disk itself in
26:36
like a 33 form. It's kind of.
26:38
Cool. Was it encoded digitally?
26:39
Was it an analog encoding on the disk?
26:41
I'm. Pretty sure it's a digital
26:41
encoding. Interesting.
26:42
That's a good question. I don't know the answer to that.
26:44
Anyway, in this version of the future, a probe is intercepted
26:46
by an alien ship traveling through space, which then sends
26:49
a scout vessel to establish first contact with Earth.
26:52
Yeah. Instead of greeting the vessel,
26:53
though, the US government. Big surprise.
26:55
Yes, that's what we do. And shoots it down.
26:58
Crashes in Wisconsin. Course it does.
26:59
The low own alien occupant, looking like a floating ball of
27:02
energy, finds the home of a recent widow.
27:04
An alien uses a lock of hair from her deceased husband to
27:07
clone a body for himself, from which he performs miraculous.
27:10
Feats fantastic he. Sends a message to his people
27:12
stating that Earth is hostile and his spacecraft was
27:14
destroyed. He arranges to rendezvous with
27:16
him in three days time, coercing the widow of the body he's taken
27:19
over into, taking him to Arizona, to Rhonda's view with
27:21
his with his. People, he just is just
27:23
gibberish. Are you?
27:24
Have you lost your mind? You know the film I'm speaking.
27:26
Of that's it. I knew.
27:27
I knew there was some puzzle that you you were laying.
27:30
You know it. For me, Do you remember?
27:31
It's a film I haven't seen, I haven't seen, and you know, I
27:34
haven't seen it really like that.
27:35
You give me clues to a film you know I haven't seen it.
27:38
I don't. Know you haven't seen it?
27:38
Have you really not seen? It I've never seen Starman.
27:40
Wow, this is Starman. This is 1984's.
27:43
They call it like a science fiction romance drama starring
27:45
Jeff Bridges. I can't believe you haven't seen
27:47
Starman. I've told you 100 times I
27:49
haven't seen it. What's your name?
27:50
You're Jeff. Right.
27:50
Yeah, this week. I don't remember that.
27:53
I really kind of love this film. I haven't seen it in years, but
27:56
it's just so bizarre. And I make references to Starman
27:58
all the time because he has someone incredible lines in
28:00
there that I think are fascinating.
28:01
Yes, of course I. Didn't know you haven't seen.
28:03
It I've seen clips from it but I try not to see it cause one day
28:05
I'm going to sit down and watch it from start to finish and
28:08
probably really enjoy it. I will do it with you.
28:10
It's not a very long film. I don't know.
28:11
I think it's pretty good. I don't know if it holds up.
28:12
I'll either watch it with you separately.
28:14
But yeah, my recommendation is 1984's Star Man.
28:16
Really fun. Love Jeff Bridges.
28:18
Of course. It's a fun film.
28:19
It's a little crazy, but it's a fun film.
28:21
One of the other ones I like of his is Against All Odds.
28:23
I think that one's good too. Haven't seen it really, no.
28:25
Oh, we're gonna have a movie now.
28:26
Let's do. It I'm down for both of.
28:28
Those that sounds amazing. Listen, my wreck is Project Hail
28:30
Mary. Yeah, Ryland Grace wakes up
28:32
millions of miles from home with two dead crewmates and 0 memory.
28:36
As his past slowly returns, so does a terrifying reality.
28:39
A sun eating parasite called Astrophages dimming the solar
28:43
system, triggering a terminal. I say.
28:45
This doesn't sound happy. A disgraced scientist turned
28:48
middle school teacher, Grace is humanity's accidental last hope.
28:51
The mission shifts from a solo suicide run into a cosmic
28:55
partnership when he encounters Rocky, A5 legged alien facing
28:58
the same extinction level old crisis from his planet.
29:01
Wow, I guess when you're a common foe you.
29:03
Have a common cause? Sure, yeah, sure.
29:04
The duo uses math and music to help bridge the gap between
29:07
their species. Grace soon discovers that saving
29:10
2 worlds requires more than a high IQ.
29:12
It requires the ultimate sacrifice for a friend.
29:15
I'm telling you in advance, you need to turn a blind eye to some
29:18
of the science, but the film is an absolute delight.
29:20
Project Hail Mary in theaters. Now, is there some Aerosmith
29:23
that plays over the top of this? No.
29:24
But it's good, good, good. Think more ET.
29:27
Oh, OK. And the science is a little ET
29:29
too. I mean, if you can believe that
29:30
the record player with the saw blade sure is communicating to
29:34
ETS friends, that's not quite that bad.
29:36
Modern science is sort of a character in the film.
29:38
They needed some consultants on the film, That's all I'll say.
29:41
There's a moment where they put in a centrifuge 2 tubes so they
29:44
can spin them around in the in the centrifuge as you do with
29:46
centrifuges. Yeah, tap the space bar.
29:48
They do not put them on opposing sides of the centrifuge because
29:51
you have to balance. Sure.
29:52
And for some reason it manages to still work even though the
29:55
film makers don't seem to really understand how a centrifuge
29:57
works. Sounds like an homage to Stuxnet
29:59
when we blew up the Iranian centrifuge system 20 years ago.
30:02
Forget all that, just go in and I'll enjoy the ride.
30:05
It's great fun, I'll watch it. All right, Project Hail Mary,
30:07
I'm in. That is the episode.
30:08
Thank you for joining us for all this nonsense.
30:10
It's really terrible podcast from our awful company.
30:12
This is on the web at Nonsense dot Productions.
30:14
I'm CJ. Little I'm Jeff Parker IF.
30:16
You like this program? Please follow demo, subscribe
30:17
and like it. Apple Podcast, YouTube Music,
30:19
Amazon Music, Antenna Pod, iHeartRadio, Spotify, My
30:22
favorite Overcast. Wherever you may get your
30:23
podcast. From Nonsense uses 7 zip, a high
30:26
compression file archiver. Open source and completely free
30:29
for personal, commercial special use with no hidden fees or
30:31
expiring trials. A simple interface let's you get
30:33
things done fast and secure your data with its strong AES 256
30:37
encryption available on every modern and not so modern
30:40
platform. 7 zip check it out you.
30:42
Nerd every Tuesday and Thursday morning.
30:44
For more nonsense, please join us.
30:58
What are they going to be the most impressed?
31:00
By are equations for the probability of their existence.
31:03
Pretty sure that's going to. Be it right?
31:04
Like you're off by 2.4% you idiots.
31:07
The fact that they're here means it's 100%.