Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / 101: Taj Dashaun - How a Sense of Falling Short Lead Me to Thrive After Sports

Transcript

101: Taj Dashaun - How a Sense of Falling Short Lead Me to Thrive After Sports · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: From your experience.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Who are all about.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: I'm training for a game, I'm training to win a season.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: How do you then help them to create a plan for that life after sport?
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: So I know time is a huge factor for athletes who are currently competing.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say the majority of athletes who I work with one-on-one or in a group setting are already finished with their careers.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Or like, for example, when I went to speak at Fresno State last week, these were all seniors who are literally graduating in what two or three weeks maximum, so they're not competing anymore.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: And now there's this space, Right?
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: But either way, whether I'm working with someone who has the bandwidth and maybe they've graduated or finished their career or they're still competing- the biggest thing for me is trying to get them to be intentional.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: Elite athletes are still people after all.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Taj, welcome to the show.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Great to have you on today.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Ryan, thank you for having me.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to be here.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I've been tuned into your show since we first connected and we were first introduced, and thank you for your patience with getting this schedule.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Obviously, we're in different parts of the world and, as a new dad, I've rescheduled on you at least once, maybe twice.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: So thank you for your patience.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Great to be here.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Thanks, man.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: And listen this I think one of the bits and we'll probably talk about is it is a patience game.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: You got to take your time.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Nothing comes quickly.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: You got to think these things through.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: So, man, don't worry about it, it's good to have you here today.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Today, this is episode 101, which is already for me a great achievement to get the podcast past that 100 mark, and I thought no better guest than yourself to join me on 101.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: And for a bit of fun, let's break down the 101 of career transition for athletes.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Let's do it.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Congratulations on episode 101.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: I read a statistic a while ago that most podcasts don't make it past episode 17.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: So the fact that you're at 101 is incredible and I'm honored that you thought of me to be guest 101 and breaking down 101 of transition.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: So this is cool, I appreciate you thanks a lot.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that stat.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: So there you go.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: It's about setting your standards and and just getting out there and as long as I enjoy the process and it's, I get to have great conversations, chatting with the likes of you and other athletes, so, yeah, all part of the fun, as I like to say absolutely yes, sir.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Now I know we were chatting and I was like, oh, it's gonna be a great idea, we do 101, we break it down, but there's no script.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: We're just gonna have a chat and I think if we have fun then everybody else is gonna learn and hopefully keep up with us as we track through this.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: But look, I thought a great thing to do is it's starting to understand a bit.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Actually, you know, you mentioned your new father.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: It's probably to tap in and understand who you are and what you're doing today.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: So for those who, for whatever reason, don't know who you are, can you give us that breakdown just to get us started?
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Taj Deshawn, founder of Thrive After Sports, which is a coaching program designed to help athletes transition powerfully into the next chapter of their lives.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: It has evolved over the years.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I started out with one-on-one coaching, that evolved into one-on-one and group coaching and that evolved into a podcast and books and speaking and things like that.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: But, just like Ryan for those of you listening everything I do is geared towards helping athletes find their second wind.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Love that.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Taj.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: And so for you, as you're thinking about your life story, talk to me.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: What is it that inspired you to kickstart Thrive After?
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Sport.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I think I wanted to be the person that I needed in my corner because I had such a challenging transition, as you often talk about on this podcast, and so I played football at a school called Stony Brook.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Most people in Australia haven't heard of it.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: A lot of folks in the US haven't heard of it.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: It's a D1 program out there FCS school based in Long Island.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: It was not my first choice.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: I'm a California boy.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: I wanted to go to a Pac-12 school, play at Arizona State UCLA schools like that and when I went there, I went into that Stony Brook situation feeling like I fell short automatically and I'm just sharing this to set the tone for I entered my college career feeling like I fell short, right, and then, not having a great career there, I exited my college career feeling like I fell short.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Then I go out into the real world, as we say, and no idea of what I wanted to do, no idea how to even put a resume together or try to figure out how to become an adult, start earning income for myself, how to become an adult, start earning income for myself, and I was trying to navigate this transition all the while feeling like I had failed because my football career didn't pan out the way I wanted it to.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I'm not just not making it to the professional level, but not having a great college career either.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: And so after and I'm sure we'll get into that in a little bit here but after trying to navigate those waters for many years and jumping from job to job just trying to make ends meet, to figure out who I wanted to be, I started to find myself on a path of helping others through career workshops and workforce development, recruiting, career services.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: These were the types of roles that I found myself gravitating towards and excelling in, which ultimately led to me founding Thrive After Sports, simply because I knew that I wanted to do something bigger than I was doing in the corporate space.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: And I thought who better to help with these skills that I'm accumulating from helping people get from point A to point B?
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Who better to help than, essentially, the folks who are the younger versions of us, who are just hanging up the jersey or the cleats for the last time and trying to find their way?
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: I love that story and there's so much to take from that.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: But I'm curious, though you talk about getting into D1 college, talking about falling short as getting into college, falling short, getting into or leaving college, feeling like you've fallen short.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: When you were younger, then what did you hope to achieve through sport?
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: And not to take you back to my whole childhood, but since you asked, when I was younger I fell in love with the game of football American football by watching the movie Remember the Titans when I was 10 years old, and so that was my first goal is to get a scholarship.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Because there were players in that movie who were getting a scholarship.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I was hoping maybe Denzel Washington would be my coach in high school.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: You know who knows?
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: So when I got the scholarship, once I got older, I started to think about what type of scholarship do I want?
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: You know, I grew up in Southern California.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: I wanted to stay closer to home and be in a Pac-12 school Arizona State, cal, Stanford schools like that where I was familiar with them, ucla and also they have that brand recognition of people in my area know like, oh, you're going to that school, you must be really good.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: And when those offers didn't come in and they were smaller schools, you know, in the US we have FBS schools, your bowl schools, and then we have FCS schools, which essentially is football championship, which is D1, but it's in between D1 and D2, essentially still division one, but not your higher level schools essentially still division one, but not your higher level schools.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: And so when I and I had some other higher level schools but I went to Stony Brook with the idea that I would essentially be a bigger fish in a small pond because I had some bigger offers on the table and when I went there, the coach who was recruiting me left.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: So I found myself in a situation where I was at a school where I wasn't preferred recruit, and this was before the transfer portal and things like that.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: So I was kind of stuck in a situation where I was at a school where I wasn't preferred recruit, and this was before the transfer portal and things like that.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: So I was kind of stuck in a situation where I was like, wow, I'm here and I'm not playing, and I really feel like I'm falling short.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: This is not the school I wanted to go to and this is not the career I envisioned for myself.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: And that, of course, leads into the second part of your question of that led to me feeling like a failure just in general when my football career was over and I graduated.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: That sounds like a tough situation away from home, like miles away from home, in an environment where you kind of didn't want to be, or it was only supposed to be a platform.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: But then you found you.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: You weren't really welcomed, or at least accepted for what you wanted to be there as a young man.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: How'd you cope with that?
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: I was coping with alcohol, I was coping with partying.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: It was so funny because there were many other teammates who were in a similar predicament and that was what we looked forward to was practice was over, or okay, the game's over.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Now it's time to go out and drink so we can numb ourselves and not, you know, just escape from these low feelings that we were experiencing at the time.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: At a certain point I did start to make peace.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: It took me a while.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: It took me probably until my late junior, early senior year to reach a place of okay, taj, you're not playing, but you're getting your education paid for.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: You have an opportunity to have a full ride scholarship, to live four years on the other side of the country.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm a California boy, I'm out there in New York, so to have that experience was priceless.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: And to have my education paid for and not have to put that on my parents to pay for school for me, to me I started to make peace with where I was at towards the end of my career.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Like I remember getting in the shower after practice and thinking to myself hey, I'm not getting opportunities, I'm not getting playing time.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: But when I look in the mirror I know that I did my best today.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: And in a roundabout way, ryan, I'm kind of grateful I had that experience, because when I experienced failures in business and things like that in life today I think back to those times Like certain things are just out of your control.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: You did the best you could and I try to take that, that mentality, with me today.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: So that's so important.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: You know, listening to that it does make me think of as growing up as a player and I was always told, when I'm playing or not, the one thing I can promise is my effort.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: It's showing up and doing my best.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: So if I'm not picked or whatever, that's on someone else's decision.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: But if I come and show my bring best self, then I need to be happy with that.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: I need to come to peace with with wherever I get to, and it does sound like that, like you were saying that came to you towards the end of that college career 100%.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: And then I immediately graduated and went into a world where I was starting to feel like, oh, now I'm really falling short as an adult.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: So I had a new challenge on the other side of that, you know, enlightenment, so to speak.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, you did, you did.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: And so suddenly, when you know they're playing pro, that fades away.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: So then you step outside, then into this, this real world, and so what was then on your mind?
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Or, looking back, what did you then want to try and achieve?
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: That's a great question, you know.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because, as I think back on that time there was partial relief Like, wow, I did it, I graduated, I made it.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: And moving back home, I was relieved.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I was ready to, I was so ready to leave New York, more specifically Long Island, and go back home to beautiful California.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: So there was a relief of I did it, I graduated from school, I don't have to go to practice anymore.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: This is kind of cool and I'm back home in California.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: It's great, the weather's beautiful, life is good.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: That lasted all of two or three days before I found myself waking up in my childhood bedroom.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: It looked exactly how it looked before I left from college.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: My parents didn't change it a bit and don't get me wrong, I'm very grateful that my folks even allowed me to move back home.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: I know some people don't have that luxury.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: So I had parents who were willing to take me back in after college.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: But I found myself quickly in a downward spiral because day three or four of being back home I was like, what am I going to do now?
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I'm just kind of here and I don't have any idea of what I want to do.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: My major was interdisciplinary studies, which is basically just a degree you get to keep you eligible, and so I had no sort of plan with that whatsoever.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never heard of that course.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you haven't.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: It's basically a combination of some people call it multidisciplinary or interdisciplinary or multidisciplinary studies.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: It's basically a combination of a few different majors.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: It's something that they put a lot of athletes in, aside from things like sociology and you know some of the other ones you may have heard of, just to help you stay eligible.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: And that was my fault, right?
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: I didn't take more agency over my academic career.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: I was just there like, happy to be here, happy to get my education paid for you know, yeah Well.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: so then, as you say, you step out and it's great, you have the piece of paper, you know they've studied, you've graduated.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: But, like you say, you had the paper but it didn't necessarily give you the skills or give you a direction as to where you want to be.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: So, in figuring that out, what kind of jobs did you do?
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: How did that process work for you?
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Well, I started out in sales because sales jobs are always hiring and they're always looking for driven, athletic minded people, and so I noticed I wasn't getting a lot of traction.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: I had a girl I was dating at the time helped me put a resume together and it was embarrassing, but at least it was something.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: So I started sending it out.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: I wasn't getting any hits, but I noticed sales jobs were willing to interview me because it's like hey, you played football, this is great, we can work with this.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: So I started in sales and eventually I was doing well in sales jobs that I was working in.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: I started out working for Xerox.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: That was my first job.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Great training, great development really got me out of my shell, taught me the fundamentals of sales.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: But I realized that I wanted to do something that was more focused on helping not that sales is not helping or serving people in some way, shape or form, but I wanted it to be more direct.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: So I was at work one day and I Googled easy careers to pivot from out of sales and recruiting came up.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I said, oh, that's interesting, I can still compete with myself, put up placement numbers, and that led me to the world of recruiting and career services and things like that, like I mentioned earlier, ultimately led me to thrive after sports, because I still use a lot of those skills today in terms of helping people find clarity and helping them develop a plan to be able to get where they said they wanted to go.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: So, anyway, I forgot your original question.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I just went off on a tangent.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: That's a good tangent.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Well, I was asking the types of jobs you did to figure out where you are today, and so I love the fact you're quite right You're stepping into sales.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: People always look for sales because there is an assumption that, as athletes, we are uber competitive and focused and wanting to get over the next person, which isn't always the case, right, because you know, as you can say, we we often find for athletes, it's actually the camaraderie, it's often just hey, it's the, the teamwork, that's, that's what is actually for many, the, the drive or motivation to stay part of that squad and in that team environment.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: You haven't gone off on a tangent.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: You've continued down the path of what happened next.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: And how did you keep pivoting?
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: How did you find recruitment?
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: I just want to touch on this point before I forget, because you just connected some dots for me that I never thought of.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: When you think about sales to your point, a lot of people will tell athletes to get into sales or hey, you're a competitor, you should do this and that.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: And, exactly like you said, it's not meant for everyone.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Some people don't have the temperament for sales or what a sales role involves.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: But what you just said about teamwork is huge and when you said that, it unlocked something in my brain that I'd never thought of.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: The reason I wasn't happy in the sales role is because I went from being in that team environment where we're working towards a common goal to now I'm just an individual contributor and I wasn't driven by the money wasn't enough to keep me motivated and everyone in that sales environment the one I was in I know there's different environments, but my sales environment was focused on hey, what is Taj doing?
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: What are your numbers?
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: How much are you producing?
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: What's your commission?
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: And there was no teamwork.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: So that's a's a fascinating point.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I never thought about that before.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: If you don't have the team environment, then you're probably not going to do well in sales, especially if you're not selling something that is meaningful to you, aside from just the income potential, the earning potential, that's absolutely right and I find in my journey as well, and for those I speak with, the bit that motivates me is driving other people forward.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: So it is in that team environment where, for me, putting on the let's say, the captain's armband and shouting, I say shouting plays, but talking about, hey, let's move over this way, watch your left and and doing all of that, that to me, was the motivation to compete to win as a team.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: It wasn't about me doing it just by myself.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: That was never enough and so, yeah, it's all.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: That type of sales environment isn't for everybody, as competitive as we might be, 100% yeah.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: So I'll tell you what I did like.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: I like the fact that you went into Google and you typed in you know, roles to pivot.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Nowadays, chat, gpt's probably got you back, but I'm listening to that and it's it's kind of a case.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Actually, that's an interesting way of thinking.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: How do you take what you had as a salesperson in order to pivot you into what comes next?
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Not just a tell me a good job that I'm going to enjoy and get paid, but you, you know, actually tried to join those dots as you move forward.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: So what was that experience for you like?
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Moving into recruitment?
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, that's another great point you bring up, because I came out of university with no sort of experience.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: So, to your point, now that I had sales experience, I was going to use that Like I have this now I can put this on my resume.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: I've done some great training, I've had a real job.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, what can I do to pivot into something else?
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: And so that's exactly what I did, like you said, and the pivot into recruiting.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I only had a recruiting job for a few months after that, but I'm grateful for that because and I was only in the recruiting job for a few months because it was exactly what basically working with creative students and culinary, music, fashion, things like that I was a career services advisor and that was a lot of fun because I got to actually work with the students.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: My day consisted of meeting with students and trying to figure out what their career aspirations were and then saying, hey, these are some ways you might want to achieve that, and then going out in the community or making phone calls to try to set up job opportunities for them.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: So that was a great experience for me and I really found success in that I was getting promoted.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I would find different companies that were recruiting me for career services roles, and that's essentially where I found my lane, and then eventually I moved into more like workforce development, job development for not students but adults, and things like that.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what led me to helping athletes at a certain point when I wanted to leave the corporate life.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: I like that, that's good to say, though, that leaving the corporate life, or at least you found your lane, you found your path where, suddenly and the way I look at it is when I think of players on a on a field, especially in team sports, there's always different personalities that you kind of see based on the position that you play, and when you so as you get to know people, you start to see he's definitely scoring all the points.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: That guy, you can see it, there's something about them.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Or you see the, the guy who's a girl, who's the engine room, and you're like man, they'd do this for everybody.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: They're just in this and, and you know, you got the crazy one in soccer, that's generally the goalkeeper, but you've got these different personality types that flick around and you and you sort of find your position.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: So, out of the field, off the field, here in this corporate world or world of work, you're kind of looking for well, where do I naturally fit?
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: Where's my lane, as you say, that I can, like you say, continue to thrive right.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Absolutely Great play on words.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: I threw a second wind in there earlier.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: You threw it right back at me.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that Very nice.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: But yes to your point absolutely.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: And you know, and that's another challenging thing which I've heard you and many others discuss on this podcast before, is how difficult it is when you go into that work environment and you're trying to find those people like you're looking for.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, I have a certain type of dynamic with certain teammates, like you were saying, and oftentimes that's not there.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: You go from that environment, you know you're young and you're coming off of your.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Even if you're a professional, you're still young compared to a lot of people in the workplace.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: And you go in there and these are people with families and you know they're just there for a paycheck a lot of times and that's challenging too.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, these are folks who are.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: You know they're just clocking in, clocking out, like yeah, it's Monday.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: You know, thank God it that type of stuff.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: You're like, wait a minute, not everyone's here trying to compete and win like I am, so that's right.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in fact, we've just had a public holiday here in Australia and I'm work with some athletes and one of the athletes was saying to me says I don't know what public holidays are, what do you mean?
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Because you might be playing that evening, so you're not off work.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: It's like you're still training.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: You may be flying, traveling in order to get to that next game weekends.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: If you're playing monday night, you might be training sunday, so it doesn't matter in many respects.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, when you step then you know it's a good thing to remember, I guess for athletes is as you then step out of that athlete world.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: People know what monday to friday nine to five is and they're going to stick to that.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: They're not.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Any time is game time right?
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: It's a big difference, Absolutely.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a shocker for me.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Did you experience that too, when you first wrapped up your career and you went out into the workplace Like did you?
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Did you experience that, or did you find yourself in those types of environments at least early on in your career?
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: For me it was actually a big shock because I remember so my birthday is December 22nd, so I remember I would train on my birthday leading into Christmas.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: We would have games, maybe Christmas Eve, maybe Boxing Day, so we'd train all the way through that period.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: There's no Christmas break in football in England, right?
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: So you didn't switch off, you didn't have that period.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: So it was a surprise to me when I then sort of entered even university I was lucky enough to then go to uni where we would break at Christmas They'd be like, oh, this is like school, so you just stop study, but shouldn't you just keep going to get better?
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: And then when I entered the workforce, it was even more so.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: People stopping off at Christmas, as an example, easter things like that, where public holidays and this came in, where you had to switch on and off.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: And I always remember being told as a player humans, we're not a tap, you can't switch on and off.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: If you are an athlete, you are 24-7, boom, that's the attitude that you need to bring all the time.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: And then stepping out of that environment to then work with people who are like, yeah, it's Christmas coming, we're going to start slowing down.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: What do you mean?
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: There's like three weeks left of the year.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: What do you mean?
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Slowing down?
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: We just keep going.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: So yeah I I felt that I certainly lived through that for me when I was in those environments.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: It made me it almost like was a catalyst for me to try to get out of it or try to.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: And I'm you know everyone's different like for me.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: I'm more introverted, so I enjoy kind of being a solopreneur and working by myself.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: But for you, did that have you want?
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Are you similar in that regard?
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Or did it have you want to just find people who were like-minded that you could be around professionally?
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: I had to find like-minded people.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: I draw my energy from others.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: In fact I say I recharge when I'm with others, right, so for me that is downtime is going to be chilling out.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: And so for me I started to find those people when I the first sort of real corporate job I achieved was at General Electric.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: So I joined GE Capital and that GE sort of leadership, that mentality was kind of an always on, in the sense that their big leadership meeting took place on, I think, the 2nd of January.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: So every year the 2nd of January was the leadership meeting.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: So it was so globally everything reset.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Then it was like, yeah, okay, you can take the first, but on the second we're going, there's 364 days left.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: So for me it was getting into that kind of environment was where I then started to realize, oh yeah, this is good, this is where people are on and you're focused and people are driven, and it's an environment where, importantly, I'm encouraged to learn and deliver my best.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: So I kind of had to go and seek those individuals and in fact it's it's probably why I enjoy the podcast, so much is that, even though I was a sort of a solopreneur I then get to meet people every week and I'm talking and they still got this kind of energy that we share when I'm in conversation with someone who's got that interesting story.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: No, that's when you talk about being a solopreneur and having, like the reason you enjoy the podcast.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: I think that's something that I experienced too, and I think a lot of athletes find themselves into, where you have some element of.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: I'm responsible for my training, my development, my personal performance, but also when I'm collaborating with people.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: I'm only collaborating or having conversations or interacting with people who I'm either helping and pulling up or these are people who are running together and we're like-minded, or these are people who are more like coaches or mentors in my life, who are pulling me up.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, we're more alike than I thought.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: We need to have more conversations.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: We do.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: But it's that beautiful thing on perspective where we find ourselves in that similar game or same game, and it's the beauty about a team.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: We have slightly different perspectives, different experiences and different, I guess, strengths that we bring into that team and for us we find an easy common purpose to describe is supporting athletes to transition better, and what it demonstrates is it is a team game and it demonstrates, you know, know you don't do this alone, but finding people who can support you along that way and there's this awesome network or web of support that actually helps.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: As we were growing up we either didn't see it, it didn't exist, but we certainly weren't introduced to this kind of support and this kind of, quite simply, people talking so openly about what it's like to shift careers from sport into that life afterwards very true.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is great to see, to your point in recent times, the development of more folks like us who are not only talking about it, because no offense to anyone who's only talking about it, but I think only talking about it can do so much.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: But when you're putting programming into place, when you're creating actual resources and tools that can help, it takes it a step further than awareness Because, like you said, I wasn't looking for it, but I also know just based on so many conversations.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: You know other folks that were finishing around the same time as us.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: I don't think the resources were really there either, so I don't think anyone was talking about it, unfortunately during our time.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: But you know, I guess we had to go through that so we could even have the idea to want to help with that.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: That's true and it's like we say it's building that and I actually think my time in banking.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: So, from coming out of sport, I eventually found 3G Capital, found myself at HSBC at the time pretty much you know the global bank at the time and what I realized was you know, the financial services industry works because of a network.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: You can tap your credit card in one place and the payment goes through the retailer and it gets cleared and it gets out of your account and it's like, well, it's not just one company or one way of doing that, but it goes through lots of different places.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: And I see that's the same for athletes is as we start to figure out okay, here's my passion with sport, but what can help me next, or how can I find that balance?
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: It's often by saying, well, if I listen to this show or read this book and speak to this person and speak to my friends and and those who have before me, all of that together is what can produce the best results.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: That, I do think, is so important.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Hence, conversations like this is where people start to see ah, actually there are lots of little things and experiences that can lead to, well, I'll say, an answer, or at least a kind of outcome from where you are.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Hey man, I don't even have a response to that, that was just I was over here nodding my head the last time you are.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Hey man, I don't even have a response to that, that was just I was over here nodding my head.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: The last time.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Well, that's all good, but let's take a little turn again and I guess, coming to you, know you were chatting there about you actually started supporting individuals through career services and and moving beyond that to workforce planning and sort of getting that strategic view of work right, the world of work in super simple terms.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Was there a specific moment where you realized, hey, I'm really enjoying this, but I'm going to love it even more working with athletes?
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, actually there was.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: I remember it like it was yesterday and it's funny because everything sort of all came together at once.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: I just moved to a new city where I met my wife.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I moved to San Diego and this was a job where I was a job coordinator, job placement can't remember the exact title, but essentially I was going out in the community developing relationships with employers to try to create job opportunities for low income families.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: The idea was to essentially try to break the cycle of welfare.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: So, working with San Diego County and it was a very fulfilling job.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: You're talking about people who generations of welfare.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: They wanted to do better, they wanted to get off of that dependency, they wanted to do well for themselves.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: So I would train them some days and some days I would be out in the community and so, long story short, it was very fulfilling.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I was making great money at a young age, just a few years out of college, and I was up for a promotion and I remember telling my family about it and I just wasn't as excited as I thought I may have been.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: The money was good, the status, I guess you could say, of being promoted into that role was very high level and I wasn't excited about it.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: And then I was kind of mulling it over before I signed the contract or accepted the role, and right around that time I had some family members who came out to visit, or family members, former teammates, who came out to visit, and they were coming out just to experience California a lot of fun.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: They were telling me about some of the challenges they were going through, like struggling to figure out who they were and like, hey, they're like Taj, you're doing it, man, you're living the life.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: You're out here in San Diego making good money.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: It seems like you found your career.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: I'm back home working at Home Depot.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: I remember having that specific conversation Like I could barely afford my flight out here.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm doing with my life.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: And so when they went back home, you know we would have these conversations and I started to realize that, oh, that wasn't just me who went through that years ago, like everyone goes through that, and that's when I started doing research.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: And back then this was 2016 going on.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: 2017, at the time, wasn't very much going on.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: There were a few people Derek Furlow Jr, one of my mentors to this day.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Orr, still one of my mentors to this day.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: They were going out to schools and speaking about the transition, but I didn't see a whole lot, aside from those two guys really talking about it, and so essentially that was my launching pad.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: It was the desire to want to help more athletes.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: But I don't want to get here and act like I'm mother Teresa.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: You know there was a selfish part of it too.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Selflessly, I wanted to help other athletes like me.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: That was a selfish part is I did not want to work corporate anymore and when, a way before the pandemic, I was thinking to myself, why should I have to put on a suit and tie and, you know, sit in traffic and drive to this office every day and sit in this cubicle and sit here for eight hours when I really finished my work, like you know, two, three hours ago, and sit here for eight hours when I really finished my work, like two, three hours ago.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: So there was that component, and I tell that story just to say for those listening, for those who may be in transition and obviously you're listening to a great show right now, tuning In With Ryan but you want to try to really figure out what type of life you want to build.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: I think that's one of the most important things you can do, and it wasn't until that moment that I started to get clear on what I wanted, like, okay, I don't want to work in an office, I want to work remotely, I want to work with this specific group of people, I want to help that specific people, specific group of people, do this specific thing.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: And starting to define and you know not that it's going to happen overnight, but if you can come up with a clear picture of what it is that you want to do and how you want to live not even what you want to do, but how you want to live and how you want it to be structured then I think that's a great recipe, especially if you're kind of lost in trying to figure out what you want to do in life.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: I wish I would have had that level of thinking when I was younger, but everything happens in due time, of course.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does, and it's so good there because you describe what I think is the first thing that people need to gain is clarity.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: You got clear on, I guess, a criteria for you about how you wanted to live your life, meaning how you want to work, how you want to spend your time, kind of where you want to spend your time being not in traffic, not necessarily in an environment like a cubicle.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: You know that didn't get the best of you, necessarily in an environment like a cubicle.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: You know that didn't get the best of you.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: So, getting that clarity and you kind of just broke it down of what you want to do and what you don't want to do, did you write it down?
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: Did you look at it or was it just in your head?
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: You know, I was probably.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: I was also I was smoking a lot of weed back then, to be transparent.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: So I remember one of the things that I would do when I would get off of work.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: I would just I know this sounds ridiculous and I don't recommend this I don't use any drugs or alcohol now but what I would do is when I would get off of work, I would actually, you know, smoke and just kind of sit there and I would actually write.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I would just think about what I wanted my life to look like and sometimes I would write it out and just I would write notes to myself.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I know that sounds crazy, it's borderline schizophrenic, but I would write things to myself that I wanted myself to remember.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: You know, things that downloads I guess you can say epiphanies that were happening.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: But it's crazy because you asking me that question made me just realize that back then I actually defined or created.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: The life that I'm living right now Didn't happen overnight.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: I had many ups and downs.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: At one point I actually had to move back, not had to.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: I moved back in with my parents because I wasn't making any money for my business and they were gracious enough to let me move back in again.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: But I say that to say once I had that vision of I want to do this, I want my life to look like, and this was and still is the thing for me.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: There's nothing that that can replace that feeling of like, oh, I found my.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: I found something that lights me up the same way my sport did, and I'm going to do whatever I need to do to make that happen until it becomes a reality.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: That's the and there comes that persistence or resilience, I think, is the word we usually use about setting that goal and working towards it and not taking a setback as okay time to quit.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: You know you mentioned that, this patience thing.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: You know it doesn't happen overnight.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: When you speak with athletes now and you support them, do you get a sense that there is a patience or impatience with regards right, I'm finishing and I need to set my next life up?
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and I know you know because you're having these conversations every day, just like I am.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a sense of urgency.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: It's really fear.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: It's a fear of, okay, this thing, this chapter is closing quickly, of me competing at a high level athletically.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: This chapter is closing quickly, probably way sooner than I was prepared for, and now I'm being thrust into this next thing and there's so much uncertainty, not for everyone.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: There's some, as you know, some athletes who know exactly what they want, which man, I don't know how they do it, but more power to them.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: But yes, there's this scrambling.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: I often talk about the scrambling of like I have to hurry up and try to find something that I can attach myself to so that I can say I'm adulting, I can say I have a job, I'm doing this thing, and when people ask me, what are you doing now that you're no longer competing?
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: No-transcript, and I think there's definitely a rush or a fear to try to just jump into something without taking time to be intentional or clear.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: Oftentimes, it is, and it's then a battle, not a battle.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: It's a good series of conversations, then, to get to recognize that time horizon isn't now, that time horizon is beginning on the path, setting it out, getting your clarity and saying, ok, what are the steps that we're going to go through in order to, in order to reach, to get to the right outcome, but recognize, you know, what do we need in place to recognize that you're on the right path?
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: What are the feelings that you need to be having?
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: What do you want to see around you that makes you feel, hey, I'm enjoying this journey and I'm going down the right way.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: And that isn't always easy to get across.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Indeed, it's not always easy to accept yes, right, I love how you just said it's a beginning, because that's such a good lens to look at it through.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: And you know from personal experience and, of course, many of the athletes we work with there's often this like, like we were just talking about, I have to check this box, like I have to do this thing, I have to do this thing, I have to find this thing, and then my life is complete.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: It's not how it works.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: You finish your sport and then, to use your language, it's a beginning of essentially a lifelong journey of whoever you decide to become or whoever, whatever you want to do, wherever you decide to build yourself into.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Now that you, you know your athletic chapter has closed, or at least competing at a high level has closed, you know the word beginning is is huge.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: If we can have more athletes look at the beginning or look at that time in their lives of transition as a beginning versus some box to be checked, I think that can make all the difference in the world.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, you're right, and and and doing that gives them.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: It gives them a focus.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Because, as athletes, often as you start the game you recognize you're on the, you're playing in the juniors, you want to hit seniors, you want to sort of move up.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: And there's almost a recognition of at 13, 14 years old when you sort of realize, hey, I'm good at this sport, I want to go to the Olympics or I want to play professionally, but you recognize you're not going to do it tomorrow.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, I've got hours of practice and games and training and stuff to play.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: And it's like, yeah, yeah, that's the same in the life outside of sport as well.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Very rarely, very rarely do you come in Like in sport you get the odd 15, 16 year old who just boom, bursts onto the scene and you know, is this amazing prodigy?
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: But 15, 16 year old who just boom, burst onto the scene and you know, is this amazing prodigy?
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: But that very rarely happens and it's like you just got to set out that path and and execute on that path 100%.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's love your thinking on that as well.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: Like that's why I think we connected early on, because we have a very similar approach and we think about how to navigate transition the same way.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: What you just said about developing into a professional did not happen overnight.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: You can't.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: A great mentor of mine once said you can't put a 40-year-old head on a four-year-old body.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: So same rules apply.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Like I was giving a talk to some student athletes last week and I was sharing that essentially, when you walk across that stage, if you're not playing professionally, congratulations.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: You're now a freshman in life.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: You're going out into a world where, whatever it is that you're going into, there are people who have been there longer and are going to be better than you.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: So embrace being a freshman.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: You're not going to be the CEO of the company the day you start working there, or you're not going to have a million dollar business just because you have an idea.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: It's not going to happen overnight.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: You're going to have to build it.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: So and that's exactly what you were just saying yeah, yeah, no, that's, that's good.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: You know, I guess, thinking about where you are now in the business, you're running and supporting athletes.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Um, a question that's actually just come to mind what do you find the hardest thing about supporting athletes in the transition?
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: for me, personally or just in general?
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: for you, yeah, for you for me personally.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for you personally how do you find it?
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the hardest thing is, I think it's early in terms of what it is that we're trying to do, although, like we were talking about earlier, there are a lot, of, a lot more people doing it now.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: I think the hardest thing is that still not this huge awareness of for younger athletes to say I know, when I am coming up on completing my career or when I'm about to walk out into retirement, I know that there are people out there who can support me and this is how I find them and this is how I get connected with those resources.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: That's the hardest part for me is because, as you know, every day we have to make people aware that these services are available, and I think and also it's kind of just to be honest, it's kind of bittersweet.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know how many other people feel like this, but, being someone who helps athletes transition, it's a good thing that more people are talking about it, but it's also the space has become a little crowded, in a sense as well, where everyone is talking about it, and it can be difficult for athletes to discern whether or not.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Like if someone works with you I'm going to be happy, but someone could come across all these different people in the space and then they decide not to work with you or me because they think, oh, everyone's doing this and it's kind of like this isn't really going to help me.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, versus like folks like you and I and other people who we both know, who are doing phenomenal work and could really change the lives of athletes.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: So those are my thoughts on that I think those are good thoughts because you've got it's a bit like player management and player agents.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: When it starts it's for the best interest of the athlete, then there's a recognition that, hey, this is on trend.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: And then you get the non-compliant, or the those who have an ulterior motive of you know, not so disappointing, but in it purely from themselves.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: And as that starts to come in for many athletes, you sort of growing up in a world where so many people want a piece of you, especially as you start to achieve success, that it becomes difficult to say, well, who do I trust?
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: How do they trust someone?
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: And so for me, and as I was listening to you and I was thinking, yeah, do you know what?
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: One of the hardest things I find with athletes in this world is helping them to recognize certainly myself, or those who I work with, are people you can trust to have your best interests, because that's what this is about and that's why we're passionate about being in here.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: Therefore, as a challenge, as you sit with an athlete and say you can be real, you can be honest, you can let down the guard, let's get vulnerable and just talk about hey, how are you thinking about what's going to come next, and breaking that down with an athlete, I think, is often one of the most difficult bits to get through in order to help them best.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Well, you know what, ryan, you summarized it a lot better than I did and you know I don't want to sound like I'm being negative and bashing people who are trying to help athletes, but that's essentially what I was getting at is, yes, it is very difficult, not very difficult, but because so many people are talking about it, there is this element of can I trust you?
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Are you just another one of these people who wants a piece of me?
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: And so, to answer the question you asked me originally, it's that.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: It's exactly that getting past the trust factor and building that trust so that you can actually help.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really good, and one of the bits, certainly for me, is working with athletes.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: I enjoy it.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: I love working with people who have exciting dreams and really want to move forward, and it's instilling that confidence with them.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: So I'm curious from your perspective.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: You talk about getting a plan.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: It's one of those things that you help athletes do.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Those who are listening are probably thinking, yeah, okay, they're talking about getting clarity and a bit of persistence to go through.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: From your experience, how do you help athletes who are all about I'm training for a game, I'm training to win a season?
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: How do you then help them to create a plan for that life after sport?
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: So I know time is a huge factor for athletes who are currently competing.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say the majority of athletes who I work with one-on-one or in a group setting are already finished with their careers or like, for example, when I went to speak at Fresno State last week, these were all seniors who are literally graduating in what two or three weeks maximum.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: These were all seniors who are literally graduating in what two or three weeks maximum.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: So they're not competing anymore and now there's this space.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: But either way, whether I'm working with someone who has the bandwidth and maybe they've graduated or finished their career or they're still competing, the biggest thing for me is trying to get them to be intentional about what we were talking about earlier, which is creation, and I think that often gets overlooked, where not just athletes but people in general think that clarity is just something that's going to come to you one day, right, or it's something that is going to come from other people.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: It can sometimes for sure.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: It's great to get you know outside input.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: One of my favorite sayings is that it's hard to see the picture when you're in the frame.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: So getting outside advice or opinions is phenomenal, but also there's no substitute for what I call cultivating clarity, which it takes effort, just like anything else.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: It's like going to the gym and trying to grow your muscles.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: You have to spend time, dedicated time, to thinking.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, not just thinking, but writing, planning, studying, researching.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: It's the same concept of me sitting at work that day years ago, almost a decade ago which is crazy to think saying what careers are easy to pivot into out of sales.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: It's the same line of thinking of I'm here, where do I want to be, what tools do I have?
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Who can I reach out to?
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: What do I actually want?
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Asking yourself the right questions, right?
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: So now that was a tangent.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: I definitely went on.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: Attention that was not a tangent, for sure, I forgot.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: No.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: No, you were on point.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: I'm asking you how do you help them create a plan?
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: And you're talking about being intentional.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: So that was it.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: That was good you got me fired up right, that's joy talking to you man.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like man.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: What was the question?
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: listen, that's absolutely brilliant.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: That's good because it is a challenge, it's getting that plan in place and I like the way you you just described stepping into a space, and what flashed through my mind was it's going to sound random.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Hopefully it sounds okay on playback, but it's one of those where, like in a matrix moment where I think it's neo, they walk in and it's just this white room.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: You're in this place of sort of nothingness, and it's one of walk in and it's just this white room.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: You're in this place of sort of nothingness, and it's one of these things where it's like so now, what are you going to do?
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: Because that period of time it's as it's as long as you want it to be, but you have to be intentional because you're in this I don't know what I'm going to do next period, and it's well, switch on, be intentional about creating clarity.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: It might not happen in a month or two months, it might happen over time, but don't expect anyone else just to give it to you.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: And so it's stepping into that space intentionally in order to find that clarity, in order to set yourself up for your future.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: So that flashed as I listen back to this.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: I'll figure out.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, am I going to keep that bit in, or was that me going off on a tangent?
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: please keep that bit.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: That was incredible when you were describing that I'm not even saying this to be dramatic like I actually got chills and I went to that place of like the white space, and I'll tell you why because I think it well.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: I think there's a couple times that white space appears in the matrix trilogy, but in the first one's when, isn't it?
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Right before he's about to go into the dojo with Morpheus?
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: So that's to me why that analogy or that metaphor really hit home with me, because he was in that white space of uncertainty.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: And then what happened next?
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: There was creation.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: That happened Essentially.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: Morpheus came in and created the dojo so he could train.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: But the whole thing went from what you're saying a blank space of emptiness to okay, what am I going to create?
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: And essentially what you and I do and what we're trying to get across to athletes who are listening, it's all creation.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: You're going to create the next chapter of your life and you have to be intentional about doing that and find people who can help you do that.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: So that was good man.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give you credit for it, but I'm going to steal that from you.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say, as my man, ryan Gazzava says it's like going into a white space from the matrix.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Well, you said it better than me, but I'm going to give you credit every time I steal it.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: But I am going to steal it, I'm letting you know right now.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: We'll listen, we'll refine it, we'll make it, we'll make it work.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: Put that into a plan Now.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: That's good.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: And listen, taja, we could keep chatting and I'm like I'm thinking, yeah, gonna have to give time.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Gotta, let you get back to the family, because we just have to keep catching up.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Maybe we won't record every episode, but this episode 101 for me has been awesome.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: Just talking with you.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: Sw for me has been awesome Just talking with you, swapping our experiences about what we're doing, and I'm hoping those listening have taken a lot out of it as well.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: But listen, taj, people are going to be listening to this.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: They're going to be thinking, okay, how do I follow your journey as well?
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: What's a great way for them to follow you and get in touch?
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: Well, first and foremost, I want to say, before I talk about where to find me, thank you for having me.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: This has been.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, I knew it was going to be a great conversation because our first couple of conversations when we connected were great and I listened to your show, so I know that this was going to be good, but honestly, I've had a lot of fun here.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: So thank you for having me.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: The best place to find me just go to TajDashawncom, exactly how it's spelled on the screen, or, if you're listening to audio, only just how it's spelled in the episode T-A-J-D-A-S-H-A-U-Ncom.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: That will take you to everything I'm doing with Thrive After Sports, the books, the podcast.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: All the links to my social media are on there.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: I'm not hard to find.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: If you type in Taj Deshawn, my LinkedIn and Instagram will come up.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: I'm more active on LinkedIn than Instagram, not really an Instagram type of guy, but if you reach out to me on LinkedIn or Instagram then I'll definitely get back to you.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you having me, ryan.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: It's been fun, brilliant.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: Thanks very much, taj.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Thanks for being on the show.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to the second win podcast.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers if you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwindio for more information or to book a consultation with me.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Book Design, Nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: That's all from me.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: Take it easy Until next time.