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From Self-Awareness to Success: Mastering Influence at Work with Roz Hobley · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women Job Board and Community.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: In this show, I'm honoured to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, their boundaries and balance, the challenges they've faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Shy away from the real talk?
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: No way.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Money struggles, growth loss, boundaries and balance we cover it all.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring TED talk sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine and make sure you cozy and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams, or just survive Mondays.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: This is the Work it Like a Mum podcast.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 1:34
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• 1:43
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• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Now back to the show.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Work it Like a Mum podcast.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, elizabeth Willits, and today we're diving into the world of leadership and performance, with a special focus on understanding personal and professional dynamics.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Joining me today is the remarkable Ros Hobley.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: She's a leadership and performance coach with the Giant London, who specialised in communication and relationship building, which is the bedrock of high-performing teams.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: We've spoken before with Ros on one of our LinkedIn lives, where we explored how to harness your unique abilities through self-awareness.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Today we're going to be building on that conversation.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Because it was such a brilliant conversation, I urge you to go back, watch it, listen to it.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: I'll put the links in the show notes so you can.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: We're going to be talking today about how you can delve into Giant's influence model to uncover the various ways to build or lose influence within your work, whether you're leading a team in tech, construction or any dynamic industry.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Ros's insights are set to offer valuable strategies to elevate your leadership game.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: We're going to get started now.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: We're going to start on lock secrets with or off to impactful leadership.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining me.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I think this is going to be such an action-packed episode.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: What an introduction Liz, Such a delight to be here again.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: We had such a good conversation, didn't we, on our LinkedIn lives.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: We've got to get Ros into the podcast.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: It really stuck, didn't it?
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I just had a quick look at the LinkedIn live.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Don't know if you can remember.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: It was all about how everyone is so unique and how knowing what makes you tick Really important then, because you can obviously go into jobs that work best for you and your personality, and then how you then use your personality to progress in those jobs.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, wasn't it?
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: The wonderful thing about our personalities and our wiring is that it doesn't change Whether you're listening to this as perhaps a university student or a mum who is at home and going back to work, or whether you've just gone back to work.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Your wiring, your tendencies, the things that you naturally excel at, will always be there.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Being a person of influence where you can leave a real impact and legacy starts with understanding yourself, what you like at your best, what you bring at your best, but also our darker side, our shadow side, what happens under pressure, when things don't go as we plan, and understanding what happens and then choosing how we're going to manage that.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: You know what?
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I'm going to digress it because I know we're going to talk about influence, but I'm reading, I would urge anyone to read it because it's a blimming good book Stephen Bartlett's book Diary of a CEO, right Edda, and he the chapter I've just read was basically related to our last LinkedIn live about understanding your strengths, and he obviously has like an amazing podcast and he was saying how he interviewed Richard Branson and Richard Branson put his hand up and said he did not understand accounts.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: He knew basically how to add up and subtract, but he had no idea what a profit you know growth profit, net profit, anything like that and he's like I just learned higher people that could explain it and do it and you know he'd got them.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: This is, you know he was in his fifties at this point, whatever, however old he was, and he was being interviewed by Stephen Bally.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: He built up a massive organization and he still did not get that bit.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: But that's the point.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: It didn't matter.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: He was good at you know, strategy, marketing, thinking about, you know what products people liked.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: So it's all about leaning into, into strengths, which I know is what you obviously advocate as well.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, I mean, that's such a great example.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: You know, Richard Branson is somebody.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: He's an intuitive in the five voices, he's a pioneer, so he looks into the future.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: He sees opportunities before anyone else.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: He sees a world that doesn't exist yet and because of who he is and his ability to analyze, he's comfortable taking risk.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: He will lean into that and through making those choices, through getting somebody else into the P&L and focusing on his core competencies and that idea generation, my goodness, he's changed our world, hasn't he?
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: And I think it's something which we all strive for and can be very doable is to look at what are the things that I love, that I'm at and how can I incorporate that into my life, personally and professionally.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: And we've got a tool at Giant actually really simple called the 7030, which says if you can spend 70% of your time doing activities or with people investing in things that give you life, that you're good at, that are energizing, they're rewarding, you will always have the energy to do 30% of your time taking out the trash, doing the accounts.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: What activities that drag you?
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: And it's worth thinking for each of us in our current context where are you at in your 7030?
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: And which way is it trending?
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: And that last part is really important, because it might be that you have been stuck at home, perhaps with a few kids who've been ill and your 7030 is really out, but they're getting better, they've gone back to school and you're able to lean back into the areas that give you life and give you joy.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: But Richard Hanson is a great example of playing to his strengths, getting somebody else in to do the bits that he's not so good at, and I think there's a lot to be taken from that.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Liz.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I love it because I think you're like re-educating people, because he referenced again another person in the book, jimmy Carr, who said that schools he should definitely really that encourage all rounders.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: And Jimmy Carr was like you know, we don't really need any more shit people that are shit of physics people that are amazing at one thing and amazing at something else.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: And you know, with that's drawing, whatever.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: You know football writing, yeah, and he was sort of saying he thinks that education system is self wrong.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I didn't want you think about it.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm with him and I think as parents, we've all know the pain and the challenges of journeying with our children on the homework that they love and they're quite happy to do.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: And then the bits which are a struggle, and I understand.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: You know you need your basic mass GCSE or whatever.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: But it wouldn't it be amazing if there could be half a day a week for the children to say I would love to do X or Y, this is what I'm enjoying and to really build up their skills, and I think we would see children coming out as kind of having more mastery.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: That's a good word.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's being more of an informed foundation to be able to choose what it is they're going to go into.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe I'm not when I say superstars, I don't mean celebrities, but superstars in their industry because they've been able to really hone that, yeah, yeah, an interest.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: But anyway, not like we digress, because we really meant to be here talking about influence.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: But it was such a profound LinkedIn live that we did and I would urge anybody to go back and watch it, and I know you had.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Is it a test that you did or you can do a testing when you make personality?
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you can at any time do it for free.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: It's on my LinkedIn page, but it's called the five voices and it is a personality assessment.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Now, there are a lot of personality assessments out there, but this one has been created specifically for communication and relationships within a team setting and to help you understand what you bring at your best, what your natural challenges and growth opportunities will be, and how this applies in a team setting.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: And it's changed my life.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: It's changed the lives.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: It's being used in over 100 countries around the world now and it is genuinely transformative and what it does is not only brings insight, but also actions, liz, because it's all well and good to have.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's really interesting about myself.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: I'm a people pleaser, which I am, but okay, what are the actions coming off the back of that?
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: And I've got a whole list of actions which I now work on regularly because I'm knowing myself.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: I'm knowing my tendencies.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Being a people pleaser is one of my biggest challenges.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Actually, I say yes too quickly, take on too much.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: My boundaries haven't been great.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: I'm getting stronger certainly not perfect, but that goes back to that awareness of self.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: So it's a brilliant tool for self awareness.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: It is good you know, because I know women are tend to be people pleasers and it's hard, you know, it's particularly if you've got your young family to set boundaries.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: But actually then if you, like you said, if you know what you are, your personality, do you know maybe where you need potentially to work on what areas of weakness are?
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Then actually you probably use that to set those boundaries and think, you know that doesn't suit my personality.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say no.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Exactly, and actually I had a dear friend at the other day and her husband and it was so helpful.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: We've got a dynamic slide and I just put up your voices.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: He was a pioneer and she was a nurturer and they are deep feelers, high empathy, they put themselves in the shoes of others.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Pioneers are logical, analytical, love to win and they were clashing a bit in their marriage, love each other to bits, but there were some consistent cases and just by understanding that they have different decision making filters, they have different wiring.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: There was an acceptance and a right.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's anticipate where the clashes are going to be and just understand that we're going to be approaching them differently and we talked through some strategies which they could put in place.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: But it helps give you the why.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: It's not just, oh, that person's really annoying me or they've let me down, or they don't understand.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: It gives you the why and it takes off the blame and gives you understanding and, hopefully, actions that you can take forward.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: If you need marriage counseling maybe you don't, maybe you need to do Ros's five voices.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't mean you were the same.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, we are, we're both connected, our creative nurturers, which, in on the Myers-Briggs, is extrovert, so we get energy from being with people.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: We're intuitive, we see a future for people, we're future-orientated, we're feelers, so we've got high empathy.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: We're really good at relating to other people, at journeying with others, and we're judges, which doesn't mean we're judgmental.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: It means we like processes, we like to have milestones, we love a process and a system, and that makes sense now.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, you want to know where you're going, how you're going to get there.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Quite rigorous in terms of having a plan and sticking to the plan.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: That is quite true, because you know, I'm always one of these people where if I say I'm going to do it, I will do it, I know you will.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: I love that about you, liz, and that is that and then makes sense to my personality, and then I can understand that maybe if I get frustrated with my husband, he says you know he's going to do something that's not been done.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: So, as we come on to influence, that builds influence Just.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was my question.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: That was going to be my foot.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I know we've spoken for a long time without touching influence.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: That is how it's going to segue into it.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: You know how does self-awareness that knowing who we are help us to influence?
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: So Giants worked with leaders, with teams in over 100 countries for over 10 years and they have boiled down building influence to one word trust.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Are you going to be goose-frozen or something like that?
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: There are four areas, through Giants' influence model, where you can build trust with people, and as we go through each four, each one is a lens for self-awareness and for you to think about oh yeah, I do that well.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Or actually, I could grow a bit in that.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: Or, oh, I hadn't thought about that, yep, I could do that more.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: But the first way of unlocking trust with people is through character, and which boils down to do you do what you're saying you're going to do?
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Do you have integrity?
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: And you saying, yeah, I'm going to do something, and delivering on it.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: That immediately builds trust, liz.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: And if you're just taking a step back to trust, when people trust you, they perceive you as having their best interests in mind.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: People trust you.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: You increase your propensity for people to be open to your judgment, your opinions, your recommendations, your requests and, ultimately, the extent to which people trust you will determine how much you influence and the legacy the legacy that each of us will leave will, to a great extent, be determined on the influence that we have, that we positively had or shared over others.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: So you're also saying the way to build trust is to do what you say you are going to do.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Is there any other?
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I mean there'll be some.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: I'm just thinking my mom, for example, who's a massive procrastinator, and it would take her a long time.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, she's not malicious, she's just a procrastinator.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: So it takes her a while to deliver what she says she needs to deliver.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Absolutely when you think about character.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: There are, so the first one would be do, do what you say you're going to do.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Another way of thinking about character is to trust somebody's judgment.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Is this somebody who keeps a conversation confidential?
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Do you have discretion and discipline?
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: There are lots of ways in which you build up a picture of someone's character.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: So your mom may be a procrastinator, but if she keeps great secrets, if she's for you, if she is somebody who has shown great judgment and great commitment to you, all of those speak to good character.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: But there are examples of leaders lost their positions through their character Tony Blair, bill Clinton and, of course, boris Johnson.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: You know we lost trust in his character because he lied to us.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: And if you so, your character and how you are with people and if you do what you say you're going to do, all of that builds up a picture around character.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Another interesting point around character is commitment and how.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: In order to have influence with somebody, there needs to be a level of commitment to the relationship I'm talking about if it is a working relationship or a family relationship not Stephen Bartlett, for example, but somebody who you have a regular interaction with for there to be trust and for them to build influence with you through their character and you work together.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: There needs to be a commitment from both sides.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: This is worth thinking about how open you are with somebody, how vulnerable you're willing to be, and I think when you're open and when you're vulnerable again, you're being really authentic and that builds the trust that people have in you.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: And I know I've worked for CEOs who've been very open with me about what's not working and actually in doing so, I've been like, yeah, okay, I want to help be part of that solution.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I've been so grateful when they have brought me in to the situation that they're struggling with.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Alternatively I'm sure we've all had this I've worked with senior people where there hasn't been trust and it's really hard when you lose the trust.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: I was going to say so.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, boris is an extreme example, but is there a point where you can regain trust?
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: If you've lost trust, can you get it back?
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Wow definitely, I mean, I did this.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I, just as a personal example with my daughter the other day, said I was going to put a battery in her toy and the day passed I didn't do it.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: She said you said you were going to put it in your dinner.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I said I'm so sorry.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: I really want you to trust me, I will do it, I'll go and.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: And she was like, yeah, okay, but I think it's we all.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: We're human, we're fallible, we're going to make mistakes.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: It's how you own those mistakes and how you choose to manage it.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: I have let down some of my dearest friends in the past and it was a really hard time.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: But I went to her and I just said I'm so sorry for what happened.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Please can we start afresh.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: I recognise that the pain has caused you and you know we've been friends for 20 years and I think in when it's a long term committed friendship or working relationship, you will let each other down and there will be moments when the trust is broken.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: But we have a choice, don't we?
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: How are we going to come back from that?
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: What about in work?
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: If you make a mistake?
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you make can make mistakes in work and might not be intentional.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: And if you make a big mistake, if you promise to deliver something and you don't, you do a bit of a poor job.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: How do you regain that trust in that situation?
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Well, let's flip it.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Let's say you have a senior boss who said that they're going to deliver something for you a key deadline, by the end of the week, and they don't.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: If they sweep it under the carpet, if they don't mention it and they can have their weekend, your trust in them will go down.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Their influence will go down.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: If, however, at the end of the day, on Friday, that person was to call you and be like Liz, my bad, I haven't delivered, I am so sorry.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: I will have it with you by noon on Monday.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I know it's not what we agreed, it is the, and that communication would be like okay, key, or she has realized it, they've accepted it.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: It is all about how you communicate, the what, because we're all going to miss deadlines or miss milestones which we have committed to hopefully not very often, but it will happen and how you communicate.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: That is the area where you can really build or lose influence with people, because they will see they just brushed it under the carpet, I'm not important to them.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Why should I give 100% when they're clearly not invested in that relationship?
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: And also, if you see that somebody hasn't owned up when they made a mistake, for me personally, my trust really starts to go down.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: So I'm like wow, if you did that, then how many other times have you done it?
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: So that's you mentioned also about authenticity, which I know.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: But there's also a line it's in there where there's being authentic but also oversharing.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking, like you know, david Brent, an exact a stream example from the office, but you know he did overshare.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: He made these people in the office I know it was a TV program Absolutely why Constable.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: So where's that line and how do you judge where that?
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: line is.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: That comes onto the second scene now.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: So we've looked at character to build trust.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: The second one is chemistry, and that is what's it like on the other side of you?
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: How likeable are you?
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Are you somebody who does make people laugh, or actually are you like David Brent, where you are just seriously out of order a lot of the time?
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: And that chemistry piece again is where you can build or lose trust.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: And I think that requires a lot of self-awareness, because surely most people think they're quite likeable.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: That's a really interesting point.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, Do most people think they're likeable?
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: We probably do, don't we Liz?
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we probably do.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I just think.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think if you have a conflict with someone, generally most people would blame it on the other person.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: They were out for it and they.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: You know, that is something, isn't it?
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: That's the self-awareness bit.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, and likability is part of the chemistry.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: It's a key element of influence.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: When people like you more, you will be more persuasive.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: But interestingly, your likability in part comes from how you make people feel.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: So that's the awareness part, because David Brent sat in the office thinking that everyone loved him and that he was the best thing since last break, but actually he was making people feel nervous, not comfortable, out of place.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: If you have that self-awareness, you have, hopefully, the ability to get honest feedback or to read people's micro expressions.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: You can tell through body language how into someone is, or you can.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: 93% of our communication is non-verbal.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: So if you are attentive, if you're looking at that person, if you're really present with them, I think you will have a real sense of how much they are genuinely invested in that relationship.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: But interestingly, on the likability point, that does.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: That is important.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: But if you're thinking gosh, I don't know how to.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so we've got any tips for how to you know.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm like, you know if someone is listening to me.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm likable or not, how, and I know it's important.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: What could I do to make myself more likable?
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: My top tip, which I have done regularly, is to be curious, to ask questions about people and to have a few questions up your sleeve.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Have some ones around the chemistry piece, so what's your favorite thing to do at the weekend, or what's the best holiday?
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Or just positive small talk but just allows you to get talking.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: But then the bigger question.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: So for me, I'm working with a group of lawyers at the minute and we'll come on to the other two C's, but one of them is around building influence through competency and credibility, and that's your experience in those areas.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Now I don't have any experience in law, so I've been wanting to show them that I know what I'm doing, but also I've had to be quite honest, so I've been going to them super curious.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: No questions, a bad question.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: I want to learn as much as I can about them, their culture, their industry, their team.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: So asking questions and having a set of good questions, whether it's in a work context or a social context, is great and most of us love being asked a good question.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: That's how I do it.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: I think that's me being a recruiter.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, what do you do?
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: You know it's a good question.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think also remembering the details of people's lives, which you're brilliant at, liz.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: But when you ask a question, that's the first stage.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Somebody gives you that information, take it, absorb it, work with it, build on it.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Ask them next time gosh, how is your, how was that dog walking holiday with that crazy dog or whatever it was?
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: But if you can just have a couple of key facts or useful pieces of information in your mind that are important to that person and then bring them to the fore when you meet them next, that will build the relationship, because it will show that not only you were interested, but you've remembered and you're following up.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: So it's about being intentional.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Nice, good tips.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Thank you, ros.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we've got character, we've got chemistry, and as you think about both of them and whether that's a growth area for you, you can think about commitment and communication within those and, when you're wanting, if you're somebody thinking, gosh, I don't know how to build chemistry.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: We've talked a little bit about asking questions, but also remember that 93% of our communication is nonverbal.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: So when you are with people, it's not just what you're saying but phone away, you know, being present, open body language, smiling, showing that you're enjoying the conversation.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: All of those will build positive repulg.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Eye contact actually, oh my word, exactly 100%.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: So think about the different ways of communication just beyond verbal, and think about, if there's somebody you want to build influence with, how you can show commitment to that relation.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Third and fourth areas to build influence are competency.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: This is, how much do you have a track record in what it is that you're doing?
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: You know, are you an expert in your field?
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Do you have a good track record of doing whatever it is that you do?
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Because, as you said, someone like Stephen Bartlett.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: He's built up such competency in meeting with world leaders, locally and globally.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: You know he's got a real competency in that now.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Or the Desert Island Discs lady it used to be the young, didn't it?
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: You just knew that she had the right question at the right time.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: She'd done it so much.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: So you can build influence through showing that you really know what it is that you're talking about.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: There'll be a lot of people listening to this.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: Obviously, the other side of the coin and we're going to all the coaches about this is imposter syndrome and how to get over imposter syndrome.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: And a lot of people, if they're going for a promotion or, you know, if they're going for a new job in a new field, there is going to be a lot of that imposter syndrome and they will not feel competent in what they're going for.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: How is there a quick fix to building up that competency?
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: You know, feeling competent, yeah.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: I have been there, I still am there.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: I retrained as a coach two years ago and I still.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: That is an ongoing challenge for me and there are a number of things which you can do.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: The first one is upskilling.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: So, whether that is finding a mentor there are amazing podcasts out there, including this one there are so many ways to learn on the go doing some training, reading a book but just knowing what are the key materials.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: What would I need to read to know a bit more about this and just being super intentional about upskilling yourself.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: The second thing is a mindset thing, and I've got a question which I found so helpful to ask, which is what relationship do you want to have with your imposter syndrome?
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: And for me, I want a relationship where it's there.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: I know it's there, but it's getting continually further away.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: And for it to get continually further away, it's a daily trust in myself, it's an investment in my learning, it's a surrounding myself with people who are often no more have more experience than me, and it's a choice.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: It's choosing not to dwell on that imposter syndrome and choosing to have a relationship where I'm pushing it further away.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: I like that and I suppose, actually linking back to the person who said something, richard Branson, he could have left you know he's dyslexic at school and he could have let that holding back in business by actually acknowledging, you know, what he viewed as failing too much actually.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: So there is some sort of I said I guess, well, you know he's sort of thinking it's there but it's not going to hold you back.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think also for those listeners who are experiencing imposter syndrome, with it's so common.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can choose what relationship you want to have with it and how much control you want it to have over you, and that can be an active choice every day.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Well, have other people said Liz.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I'd love to hear any other.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Well, I said I remember saying how, like, imposter syndrome was a good thing and you needed to go through it because then you, you learn these skills.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: If you never go through it, you'll never learn, you'll never grow.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: And to the podcast with Rosie Reynolds I'll put the link in the show and it's because she is the COO of an asset management firm and she said she got a big promotion when her children were little and she has had massive imposter syndrome throughout her life.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: She didn't go to private school and she's in like a prestigious hedge fund now and then I said, got the promotion.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: I think she felt maybe she didn't have the right accent and there was a lot of things where she fell out of place.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: But it's then about leaning into that and I think it's that upskilling and asking for help.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: She recommended having a coach, which I know that you're obviously a coach.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: I've had coaching and I think that is a really helpful thing.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Having a couple of key people championing you and reminding you of the truth, because we also need to remember we're the only ones who feel this imposter syndrome.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: When you walk into the room and you look the part and you're confident and you're full of energy and anticipation for the job, no one's going to know you've got it.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: It's only you who knows.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: And so it's about.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: yeah it's a tough one.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: I think it's one of the things you think.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: You get to a point where you're like yeah, I know what I'm doing, well then, that's it.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Then you get to that point where you're quite comfortable, aren't you, in your job?
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: And you get to that competency where you feel the competition.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: But then if you don't, then push yourself to try something new and get imposter syndrome again.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: You will stay static.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, have we got time for the fourth scene?
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, please do.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Brilliant.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: So we've had character, chemistry, competency.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: And the fourth way to build trust and to build influence with people is through being credible.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Ok, and through being credible.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: That is about being relevant.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: It's about so for anyone listening out there who's preparing for a job interview.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: It's about taking your personality, your skills, experience, life experience, knowledge and having the ability to make it relevant to the person who you're with, showing that you understand or are relevant to their world, their context, their challenges I think, especially for somebody who's in the client service industry, for example but taking yourself and showing that you are relevant, that you are credible and that you understand the worlds of other people.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: That is like do you know what, as a recruiter that gets a lot of CVs and some of the applications do feel irrelevant.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: That is like so if you are looking for a job and you're trying to move into another industry, if you're trying to change jobs, that is probably the best advice anybody gives.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: So, thank you, ros.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: It's.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: How is it relevant?
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: And you can obviously talk about that in the cover letter.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: You can try and make your CV more relevant.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Brilliant advice.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Exactly and I had credibility challenged recently when I was working with this group of barristers.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: But in that first meeting I made sure I got the acronyms, I got the names of the key bodies they work with their clients.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I made sure I went back, I learned them all.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: I learned all of the terms of the trade and everyone's got that lingua for their business particular.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: It's about understanding exactly what is that life, the land, the acronyms, the culture of the person who I'm going to be working with or the job that I'm applying for.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: How can I reflect that I know that?
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: And if I don't know it, what do I need to know in order to be more credible?
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that and that I get.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Just linking it back to my recruitment is you know, if you are wanting, I get a lot of this they want.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: People want to make such huge career shifts on something they're doing now to something completely different.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Is then thinking about how you can upskill yourself to become more relevant in the meantime?
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: With these four filters if, going back to the self awareness piece, you'll find that most of us will have a natural preference.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: So for me, I would naturally look to build trust through character and chemistry.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: You only because I was going to say if you're applying for a job, for example, and the person doesn't know you, so it's quite hard for them to trust you, isn't it?
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Initially Because they don't know you in terms of, like, the quality of work you can deliver, et cetera.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: But it's you're saying you pick on a couple of things to build trust quickly, depending on the situation.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Exactly so.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Let's say you're going for a job in the entertainment industry in you would have examples or names top of mind for people you know.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: We've worked within the entertainment industry to demonstrate that you understand their world.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: You know some of the people involved and if you don't know some of the people involved, you have examples of where you've come into an industry and you've made it work.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: So I haven't worked in the entertainment industry, but you know I came into the transport industry for five years and this was my approach and it worked well and I would adapt this for the entertainment industry.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: It's about taking your ability to adapt and learn and showing how you could make that happen in this context.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: So that reminds everyone of the four C's again.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: So character, chemistry, competency and credibility.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: And what you find is, most of us have a natural preference for either character and chemistry or competency and credibility.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Some people won't be so bothered about character and chemistry.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: They will just want to know you're really good at what you do.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: They don't have to like you, but if you're really good at what you do, you're an expert in the field.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: Brilliant, you're in For me.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: I like to like someone if I'm going to work with them, so I want them to obviously be good at the job.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: But if I find them a bit tricky to work with or they're not that likable, I'll be really honest I'm probably not going to be they're not going to be top of my list for me to work with, because I really like that.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Do you know what you mean?
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: But then I get.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but somebody listening to this, then that wants to not just get the job, but become like the CEO, the leader.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Do they need to be able to master all four C's we all need?
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: to be able to do all four, but we will have a different priority.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: I will have a different priority order.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: From somebody who is the head of tech, for example, at a big tech company, for them, I would imagine that competency and credibility will come first.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: But in order to unlock influence and to move into a place of relational trust where there is a committed working relationship, you need all four.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: You need to be believable, do what you say.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: There needs to be an element of actually like working with you.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: I like being on the other side of you, I trust you, you're competent, you know what you're doing and, gosh, you can make what we do relevant to you, can make what you do relevant to me or to our clients.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: But it's not just about me.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: It's about the people or the interface or the partnerships.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: It's about being able to take you and relate it to everybody around you.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: So do you help people within GiantLand and Master All Four or Lean in 12?
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: How do you help people?
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: I've tended.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: I've worked recently with a couple of clients in the tech industry on communication and how they build trust using communication for character, chemistry, competency and credibility.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: And there was one person who is head of technology for a company.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: They're very, very good at what they do.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: They've just been promoted and they're highly competent, but actually the way they dress doesn't reflect their seniority.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: And we had a good session actually just on personal presentation and look at people in the eye, because how you dress says a lot about your competency and how much you're kind of how you're choosing to show up for work.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: So we looked at dress and then we also looked at body language and how he communicates his chemistry through body language.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: So I have taken this and I've worked through the lens of communication on these four things with clients recently.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: It's been very powerful, but it can be used in so many different ways.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: It depends on your context, the goal that you're working towards, the relationship that you might be in.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: But I encourage you to think, if you're going, if you're speaking to your boss about something, what's their top one?
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Is it competency?
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Well, they want to know that I've done my due diligence for this, that I've got all the information or actually, is it really important that I'm asking how their job move went before I go in and ask for such and such?
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: So think about the person that you're going to see.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: What is it that they need?
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: To build that trust and that rapport with you?
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: It's guessing it'd be more observant, isn't it?
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: Of other, yeah, interesting.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: So how can people work with you?
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: I know you obviously help people with the four Cs and then all these stuff, wellness as well.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: How can people work with you?
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: And then, maybe, where they can connect with you and learn more?
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, so you can find me on LinkedIn, and I love working with individuals and with teams, and the way that we do that is to do a personality deep dive and then to look at their goals, and often these will be professional development goals in order to meet their KPIs.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: So we will look at, perhaps, a relationship that's broken down, an area where there's conflict, an area where they need to have more courageous conversations.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: We will look at their personality and apply this specifically into the challenges and the context of their role, and it will be different for each person.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: It's a very bespoke approach that I offer, and then I do teamwork as well, which is taking the five voices and doing workshops around the culture of the team.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: What are the strengths of the team, the blind spots, where are the areas?
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: How can this team perform at its best?
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, it's Ros Hobley on LinkedIn.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Have you got a website as well, londongiantcom?
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: We've got all those links in the show notes.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: This was such a valuable episode, so thank you so much for joining us today, ros.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much to everyone that has listened today as well.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Please do message, let us know what you think.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: I always look after, ros, and so I hope you have found it as valuable as I have.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Amazing.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Thank you, liz, thank you for all you do.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work it Like A Mon podcast.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: You can also follow my recruitment site Investing in Women on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Until next time, keep on chasing your big dreams.