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The Unmasking of Tattle Life’s Creator · Outspoken the Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Outspoken. It's your dose of the
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: hottest influencer and pop culture news twice a week. I'm
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Kate Torber and coming up on today's show, TattleLive's founder
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: has been unmasked during a landmark defamation case and Indy
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Clinton's quest to end cyberbullying. But first, Amy, you are back.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: You've entered maternity leave a lot earlier than I did. Yeah,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: it's been nine weeks, but it's actually felt like quite
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: a while and I am so up to date on
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: all of the influencer news and drama because all I
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: have been doing is watching vlog after vlog while I've
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: been feeding Harry.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, I remember those good old days.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Enjoy it while it lasts because I'm on no screen
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: time with Jack at the moment and I'm wishing I
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: could be watching YouTube. Well, it's getting to the point
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: where I'm scraping the barrel because I was watching content
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: from Molly Mae from about four years ago and I thought, geez,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: my favorite influencers need to release some more videos. Oh,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I started watching Molly Mae and Tommy Fury's Love Island
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: series when I was breastfeeding. I was like, I'm just
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: going to take it back to the start. Well, there
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: is a new Love Island coming out. It's playing in
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the UK at the moment. So I will be.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Watching that as well.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Tattle Life has finally had its day in court, with
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: the founder behind the snark website finally unmasked. For over
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: seven years, Sebastian Bond has hidden behind a veil of anonymity,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: but that was ripped away on Saturday when an Irish
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: couple successfully sued Tattle Life for defamation and harassment. Now
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: that the owner's identity has been exposed, it's opened the
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: floodgates to further lawsuits. Now, this is a landmark defamation
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: case that is set to shake things up in the
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: influencer world. We have spoken a lot about Tattle Life
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: on this podcast, but Kate, for those listeners who aren't
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: familiar with the site, can you bring us up to speed?
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: So Tattle Life is an online gossip forum that claims
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: to hold influencers to account. It features countless threads dedicated
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: to discussing individual influencers. And since its launch in 2018,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: the website has reportedly attracted millions of views every month.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: and generated millions of dollars in advertising revenue. It's actually
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: become one of Australia's most visited websites. And the website
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: bills itself as a place for commentary and critique of
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: people that choose to monetize their personal life as a
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: business and release it in the public domain. Tattle Life
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: also claims that its purpose is to protect free speech
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: and protect the public's mental health. Now, back in 2019,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: the owner of the site wrote, it's an important part
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: of a healthy, free and fair society for members of
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: the public to have an opinion on those in a
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: position of power and influence. That is why Tattle exists.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: We allow people to express their views on businesses away
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: from an influencer's feed on a site where they would
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: have to go out of their way to read.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: This is not trolling.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: When somebody has to actually point out, this is not trolling,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: you always know there is going to be trolling involved.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: It's like when people say, no offense, and then say
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: something highly offensive.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Exactly right.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: And despite claiming to have a zero tolerance policy towards abusive, hateful,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: and harmful content, Tattle Life has become renowned, as you said, Amy,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: for just that. It's been touted as the most toxic
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: corner of the internet, with many influencers complaining that they've
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: been bullied, defamed, or doxxed on the website. And what
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: makes Tuttle particularly dangerous is that.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Users are completely anonymous.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: There has been so much talk recently about whether people
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: should be able to post their anonymous thoughts on the internet.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, my view is if you have to say
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: something under the veil of anonymity, maybe you shouldn't be
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: saying it because you should be able to put your
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: face and name to whatever you're going to say about
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: someone or something. And we had this discussion recently because
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: in our group, a lot of people started leaving anonymous
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: comments and we found that the tone totally changed Because
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: when people can post something anonymously, it often turns toxic
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: very quickly. Yeah, and it got to the point where
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: there were some threads where nearly every single comment was
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: anonymously posted. So we turned that anonymous posting feature off
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: and it has been game changing. Yeah, I'm just glad
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: that Facebook actually gave us the ability to turn that
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: feature off. Now, there have been countless influencers that have
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: called for Tattle to be banned and there's been a
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: lot of unsuccessful attempts until now. So two years ago,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: an Irish couple called Neil and Donna Sands took things
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: into their own hands, funding a legal battle against the website.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: So Donna is 34 and she has a fashion business
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: while Neil is a 42-year-old technology entrepreneur. Now, I wasn't
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: familiar with them, but I assume that they must be
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: pretty well-known influencers in Ireland, seeing as they had a
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: 45-page thread on the website. It turns out, though, they
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: are micro-influencers. So at the time of recording... Donna has
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: 30,000 Instagram followers, which is likely to have been bolstered
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: by the recent news. As for her husband, Neil, he's
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: only got 5,000 followers. And that's the thing about Tattle.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: You actually don't have to be a big fish. Some
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: of the threads about micro-influencers are just as extensive as
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: the big influencers. Well, that kind of goes against their
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: whole motto, isn't it, on their website that, you know,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: you have to be earning a huge living to be
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: able to be talked about on the website.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Now, in February 2021, Donna and Neil Sands asked Huddle
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Life to remove a 45-page defamatory thread about them.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Now, the website just.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Ignored their request, and they allowed the comments to remain
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: live on their website until May 2025. Now, the Sands
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: launched legal action against Huddle Life in June 2023, and
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: after a lengthy two-year battle that they self-funded, they were
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: awarded £ 300, 000 as well as their legal costs. Wow. Because
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: you would assume, as you said, that it was a
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: big name influencer that would have had the money to
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: be able to launch a legal case against Haddle Life,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: not some micro influencers. I mean, I got the vibe
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: from the Instagram account that they're quite wealthy. They had
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: their wedding in Lake Como. That says a lot. But
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, this is more than
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: about money. This is about standing up for content creators,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: and people that put themselves online and saying, hey, this
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: is not okay. Well, I think a lot of people
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: on Tattle would be shaking in their boots because during
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: the proceedings, Justice McAdlin said a day of reckoning will
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: come for those behind Tattle Life and for those individuals
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: who posted on Tattle Life. Now, the judge deemed that
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: the website had been set up to deliberately inflict hurt
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: and harm on others By allowing the anonymous trashing of
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: people's reputation, Justin McAdlin called the website's action a calculated
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: exercise of extreme cynicism. He went on to say, this
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: is clearly a case of peddling untruths for profit.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, that is the key.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: As you said, this guy has been making so much
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: money having other people trash the reputations of influencers and
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: content creators and also just micro-influencers who own businesses. Yeah,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: this guy is making serious bank at the expense of
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of people. Now, during the two-year court case,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: the identity of the owner of Tattle Life was suppressed.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: In fact, it's been a.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Secret for more than seven years with the owner posting
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: under the pseudonym Helen McDougall. That all changed though when
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Donna and Neil's application to lift the reporting restrictions was
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: approved and their real name was made public on Saturday.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: As we revealed at the start of this segment, the
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: owner of Tattle Life is Sebastian Bond. If you can
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: believe it, he is a 43-year-old food influencer who runs
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: a vegan cooking Instagram called Nest and Grow. I'm assuming
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: there's no Tattle Life thread on him and his content.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Funny about that, there isn't actually.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Now, he is better known under the alias Bastian Dalwood.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: and has attracted 135,000 Instagram followers through his wholesome online persona. Now,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: according to the Nest and Glow website, Bond is a
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: former office worker who quit long days in London to
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: move to the countryside and share natural recipes and lifestyle tips.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: And set up a troll website on the side.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he's making bank off it.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: The funniest thing was when I heard this, I was like,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: this is the same as when Dan Humphries was unveiled
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: as Gossip Girl.
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: It's just so ironic that it's a male. And also
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: that he's an influencer. I mean, this is the same
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: man who wrote on Tattle that influencer marketing was insidious
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: and that influencers prey on the parasocial relationship that they
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: have with their audience to, quote, hoodwink their followers into
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: getting more money. Did you have a look at his page?
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Because I, of course, went straight to there when I
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: saw the news. And it was pretty uninspiring. It was,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: he hasn't posted since 2020. They were sort of ordinary
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: photos of vegan food. Yeah. He'd been posting since 2016,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: but as you said, he stopped posting in 2020, which
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: is kind of odd because that's when everyone kind of
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: started posting about food. I was wondering if maybe he
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: bought the followers because again, the content wasn't that crash hot.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: It was hard to tell though, because I went into
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: the comment section and it was literally every influencer and
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: their dog abusing him.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Which I loved.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Well, I wonder if he stopped creating content in 2020
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: because that's when Tattle would have exploded in popularity. We
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: know when everyone was locked down in their houses, that's
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: when a lot of people would have turned to websites
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: like Tattle. So perhaps he stopped because he was making
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: more and more money and he didn't need to be
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: working as an influencer on the side. Perhaps he was
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: scared that he might get found out. I mean, it's
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: pretty hypocritical to slam influencers and then be one yourself.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: In terms of him pretending to be a woman... It's
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: so messed up to think it's this man pretending to
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: be a woman and encouraging other women to tear women
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: down while making so much money off her.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: It's bullshit.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: I know. And a lot of men would probably look
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: at Tatl and go, oh, that's just a whole load
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: of women having a bitch about other women. The irony
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: that it's a man that's all behind it.
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, as we touched on, it's reported that the
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: avid revenue he was earning was around a million dollars
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: a year. And that was in 2021. So I'm guessing
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: it's gone up by then. And that fact alone completely
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: contradicts Tattle Life's claim that it operates solely for the
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: sake of public discourse. What I find really fascinating is
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: more details are coming out about this investigation that has
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: unmasked Sebastian Bond. So the couple's legal team have said
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: that this was a global investigation. and it turns out
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: that Bond used his two businesses to try and conceal
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: his identity. So one is a UK registered company called
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Yuzu Zest, while the other is registered in Hong Kong
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: and it's called Kumquat Tree Limited. Interestingly, Tattle Life claims
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: to be operated by a company called Lime Goss, which
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: does really fit with the whole citrus theme he's got
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: going on. We should have known he was a vegan blogger.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: There were so many clues. I know. And the Sands
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: legal team have done an excellent job because they had
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: to use a mix of legal innovation and digital evidence
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: to track down Bond and his assets, including money transferred
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: around the world. According to the legal team, it was
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: a very sophisticated effort to avoid scrutiny. And it appears
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: the writing was on the wall for Sebastian six months ago.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: So back in January, Tattle Life shocked its users by
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: announcing it was closing due to threats. The website went
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: down for several hours and returned to operating under a new.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Name, Ate Cafe. An interesting name.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: A lot of people said it sounded like the hate cafe,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: which would have been bang on. They could have called
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: it like sour pusses or something, stuck with the citrus theme. Yeah. Now,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: the owner then posted a farewell message writing, Unfortunately, recent
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: threats directed at members of one of our families have
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: left us with no choice but to shut down the site.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: It's simply unfair for them to be impacted by something
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: they have zero involvement in. Now, it's pretty ironic that
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Sebastian Bond tried to take this moral high ground. When
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: his family was dragged into it, it was terrible. How
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: about when every other influencer's family who has nothing to
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: do with the online world has been dragged into it?
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Very hypocritical. Now, unfortunately, that shutdown was short-lived because just
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: 24 hours later, Sebastian Bond changed his mind. Under his pseudonym,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Helen McDougall, he wrote, After further discussions, yet late into
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: the night for some and all afternoon for others, we
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: have decided to deal with the threats with legal action.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: As you will appreciate, we won't be discussing the situation
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: as it concerns family members with no connection to Tattle.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: All matters are with our legal team. He finished up
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: by writing, once again, we apologize for the stress of
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: the last couple of days and hope to see you
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: all back on your favorite threads. Please post on topic
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: on the threads and ignore this whole situation while it's
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: dealt with as not to jeopardize it. Well, when all
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: this news came out, I went straight to Tattle to
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: see if there was a discussion on Sebastian Bond. Nothing.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: There was no one discussing it. Oh, so that 24-7
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: moderator that they claimed to have is working for him.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Well, in impeccable timing, on Friday night, Indy Clinton announced
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: on her Instagram that she knew the identities of the
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: anonymous trolls who had been bullying her for years. So
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, Indy revealed she'd hired a private
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: investigator to find out who was behind the constant harassment.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: And so on Friday night, she appeared on camera in
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: a hoodie and black sunglasses with a glass of wine
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: and she was ready to spill the tea and it
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: didn't disappoint. Yeah, it turns out that her private investigator
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: had put together a 64-page report which unmasked the trolls. Now,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Indy was unable to name and shame the trolls due
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: to it being an ongoing case, but she did let
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: a few interesting tidbits slip. So she dropped that a
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: lot of her trolls are from Melbourne with many of
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: them mothers. Did this surprise you, Amy? It didn't surprise
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: me at all. I think anytime you see a troll
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: on TikTok or Instagram, often when you click on their profile,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: you'll see it's either a motivational quote about loving everybody
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: and being kind. And then it says like mama of three.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: So it wasn't surprising. And also because Indie is a
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: mummy vlogger, she would attract a lot of other mums. But,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, it obviously shocks you a bit to find
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: out that somebody who is looking after children, there's often
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: a perception around what a mother is like. They're very
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: caring and kind. To find out that it's actually mothers
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: who have been trolling Indy for years, it is quite.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Sad, really.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: It's sad and it does make me reflect and think, well...
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: is this a sign of women just having way too
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: much pressure on themselves? I'm not trying to make excuses
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: for these trolls because their behaviour is absolutely awful, but
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: the fact that it is this particular demographic of women
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: who are probably trying to look after kids, trying to
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: have a job, and their outlet is trolling people online,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: it's just very interesting from a psychological perspective. Well, as
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Indy pointed out, she's like, this is why the cycle
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: continues because you've got these mums who are sitting online
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: trolling other women and They're teaching their kids then to
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: be bullies in school. And that's one of the reasons
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: why Indy has gone to the lengths of hiring a
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: private investigator because she really wants this cycle to stop.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: And she made it very clear.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: That she's quite familiar with who her biggest trolls are,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: so much so that she said she knows what hospital
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: one gave birth in alongside their ABN and gynecologist name.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: And as for another, she said that she could relate
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: to them about regretting the tattoo they got when they
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: were 18. and that she knew they went through burnout
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: in 2024. She also revealed that she's been engaging with
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: some of her trolls platforms just to let them know
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: that she knows who they are. And it was also
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: to give them an opportunity to apologize. Yeah, because she
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: followed some of them and then liked others' posts on
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Instagram and TikTok. Can you imagine your heart dropping? You
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: would be like, how the hell does she know who
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: I am? I went to Indy's following list because I thought, oh,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I wonder if it will pop up who she's recently followed.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Maybe it gives an insight into who the trolls are.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: But I actually couldn't find anyone. I mean, I love
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: this tact because we did something similar. Not that we
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: get trolled at all on the level that Indy Clinton does,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: but we unfortunately do have a thread in Tattle Life
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: dedicated to this podcast, strangely. And there is someone that
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: posts a lot in there. They seem to have a
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: real interest in us. And We worked out who they were.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: So we just blocked them in all of our accounts.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: And I think they were a little bit confused. And
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the funniest thing was they had been messaging us all
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: of these complimentary things and saying how well we'd been
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: doing on the podcast. So it's just bizarre behavior. Yeah.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: And that's the strange thing. Often people who troll influencers
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: at some point used to be really big fans of them.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: They know a lot about them and something happens and
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: they completely switch. Now, as for Indie's biggest troll, this
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: is how she addressed them.
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: After Melbourne, I mean, Victoria, who was there? Oh, that's right, WA. Hello, WA.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: My number one antagonist is from WA. How are you doing?
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: I probably haven't reached out to you this week because
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: I'm taking you to court. I'm just being honest.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Now, since the revelation, influencer watchdog account Dutch Minty has
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: shut down. Now, Dutch Minty was very vocal in calling
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Indy out about sharing her children online. It's got a
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: lot of people thinking... that Dutch Minty or whoever is
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: behind that account is this super fan that Indy is suing. Well,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: you would be in damage control, wouldn't you? I mean,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: this is a troll's biggest fear, being unmasked. And as
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: we said, it's often people that you would never expect.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, some of these women who are about to
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: receive legal threats, they could hold really important jobs. They
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: could be teachers. They could lose their job at that.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: They could be in healthcare. You just don't know who
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: these people are.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Now, Indy presented this in a really jokey manner, and
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: that was to gain traction. But it's clear this is
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: not a joke to her at all. She spoke in
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: length about wanting to use her platform for good and
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: to stop cyberbullying. She's also put a lot of her
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: own money into this. And on Sunday, she revealed just
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: how much cyberbullying had affected her.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: This is what she said.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: This has gone further than just naming and shaming. This
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: is an epidemic that needs to stop because lives are
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: being taken and And for me, right, let me just
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: put this very clear. For me, a few months ago,
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: what I have endured, it was life or death.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: This made me so sad because we had Indy Clinton
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: on our show back in December and she was an
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: absolute ray of sunshine. She was so generous with her time,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: so down to earth, so easy to talk to. And
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, we've spoken about Indy Clinton. I feel like
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: we try and be very unbiased. So if we have
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: someone on the show, we're still going to talk about
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: them if they do something controversial, in quote, notification marks.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: So we've been, you know, pretty open with our reporting
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: on her and she was so gracious to come on
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: our show.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: We had a laugh. She was absolute beautiful person.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Well, she spoke a lot about the trolling as well
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: that she'd endured. If anyone wants to go back and
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: listen to it, it's one of our Christmas episodes and
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: it obviously does take a toll on people. I think
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: often people forget that influencers are real people and they
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: see their lives online. And they don't think that these
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: kind of comments get to them, but they obviously do. Well,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: I think the worst thing about tattle life is you
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: often see people direct in the comment at the influencer.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: So in a lot of threads, they go, oh, so-and-so,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: like for instance, Indie, we know you read this.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: You should do this.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: It's like these people get a kick out of knowing
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: that the influencers are looking at it and they're even harsher.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Whereas originally, Sebastian Bond claimed that this was a place
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: where people could talk freely about influencers without them seeing it.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: It's like, well, it's just human nature to want to
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: see what people are saying about you. And it's really
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: hard to not look at threads like that. Yeah, and
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I would put it to listeners out there. If there
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: was a page where people were talking about you, would
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: you not be intrigued to read it? And I think
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: everyone would go and click on it. Now, Australian influencers
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: are excited about this revelation. There's been a lot of
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: talk online about it. Em Davies shared her thoughts to Instagram, writing,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: the idea that we might soon have the means to
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: identify those who are projecting their own insecurities as online
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: hate is a huge and long overdue shift in this industry.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: It's fucking refreshing and hopeful to witness slash see online
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: right now. What's even more disturbing is that so many
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: of these people are parents. laugh out loud, role models supposedly. Hey,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: it's vile. I honestly can't comprehend how they find the
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: time or the desire to spread that kind of toxicity
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: while raising children. Karma has a way of circling back always.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Grateful for people like Indy Clinton, Neil Sands and Donna
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Sands doing the work to figure it out. We shouldn't
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: be numb to receiving this bullshit day in and day out.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Just because we choose to share more of our lives
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: online doesn't mean we deserve to be relentlessly criticized and bullies.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Openness is not an invitation for abuse. Think about it. Anyway,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: their time will come. I really enjoyed hearing M. Davies'
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: thoughts on this because there has been this blanket rule
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: that if you put yourself out there online, then you
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: have to be okay with people discussing you. And obviously
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: we have this podcast where we talk about influencer culture
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: and things that influencers do, but we really try to
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: talk about the action rather than the person. And we
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: put our face and name to it. So we're okay
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: with the things that we say, and we can have
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: open discourse if someone like an influencer isn't happy with it.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: But when you're posting anonymously, there's no discourse there. You
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: don't know who it's coming from. You can't hold that
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: person to account. And you say the most disgusting things
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: that you would never, ever say to a person. And
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: I don't think that that is a fair trade-off for
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: being an influencer, particularly when you consider how saturated the
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: influencer market is at the moment. There are so many
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: more influencers than they were. So nowadays an influencer, some
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: influencers earn, you know, not even minimum wage.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Some influencers are just doing it for fun.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: And they are copying so much ridicule that they don't
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: want to put themselves out there anymore. For example, I
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: know there's a TikToker who has a million followers in
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Australia and you might look at her and go, oh
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: my God, a million followers. She must be making a packet.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: But she's not because Australia doesn't have the TikTok creator fund.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: So I agree.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: It seems very unfair when you're not even making, like
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of these people are not making truckloads of
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: money that you think that they might be making because
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: you think, well, maybe that outweighs The good outweighs the bad.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: This person is making a living off it. But it's
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: often that they're earning minimum wage and then being absolutely
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: torn to shreds. Yeah, because a lot of the threads
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: about micro-influencers are just as vicious as we were saying earlier.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: And I mean, even if an influencer was earning mega bucks,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: it doesn't give people the right to absolutely defame docs
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: and harass them and bully them until their mental health
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: suffers from it. But I suppose the only thing we
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: have to compare it to is how people treat celebrities.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: And people often say, oh, we can talk about them
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: and say whatever we want because they're living this lifestyle.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: That you could only dream of.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: But influencers are, not all influencers are living the life.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: We've had a discussion about Tattle a lot on this
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: podcast and over the past couple of years, and there's
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: also been lots of chat in our group. And I
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: do want to put it out there. There are some
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: people who do use Tattle in the correct way where
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: they will actually hold an influencer to account. I mean,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: there have been cases, for example, Ruby Frankie, where a
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: lot of followers of her were concerned about her actions
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: and it turned out to be that she was doing
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: the wrong thing. She's been jailed.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: So there are.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Instances where Tattle Life has done good. Unfortunately, there are
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: just more people who are using the website as a
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: platform for hate speech as opposed to those people who
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: are actually using it correctly as a call-out platform. Well,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, and that might have been its initial intention,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: but it's just become a cesspool of hate and an
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: echo chamber for everyone who doesn't like someone to get
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: together and literally try and destroy their life. Now, Leah
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Adsenas has been vocal about her distaste towards Tattle Life before.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: When Tattle Life looked like it was shutting down back
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: in January... She posted in our Facebook community saying that
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: the site gave her postnatal depression and she actually sadly
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: got to the point where she thought her daughter was
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: better off without her. Now, once the news broke, she
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: wrote on her Instagram story, anonymous bullies deserve to be
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: unmasked because of how fucking embarrassing it is to be one.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Imagine your family and friends finding out you bully people online.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Wild.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad this is happening. The damage this site
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: and others did to me when I was my most
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: vulnerable nearly broke me.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: What a fucking loser.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Lily Brown has also spoken up about Tidal Life, despite
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: actually saying she didn't know about the website, which I
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: found surprising. She wrote, surely all us creators all band
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: together and take down the rest of the faceless accounts,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: destroying people's mental health. It's about fucking time. And she
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: went on to say that over the last 12 months,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: she's felt herself really pull back from sharing about her
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: life because of these faceless super fans who she says
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: say the most horrific things about her. And she said
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: that she would like to go back to posting more regularly.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: and not feeling like everything she says or does will
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: get picked apart by these people. I can see why
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: she feels that way, because as you mentioned, there was
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: a Tattle thread about us, and I think it was
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: really getting into Sophie's head. I don't go and read
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: that shit, but I know she was somebody that would
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: go and have a look and it would make her
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: feel shit. And it does make you second guess yourself
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: when you are putting out content, because you think, oh God,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: am I sharing too much? Is this going to be ridiculed?
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Is this just fodder for the trolls? So maybe we
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: are going to see if Tattle does get shut down.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: a lot better content. I mean, I've heard Saffron Barker
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: talk about it recently. She talks about those golden years
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: of YouTube when everyone was so supportive. And I think
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of influencers don't share the way they used
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: to share because of this fear.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: I think in order for that to happen though, social
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: media platforms need to get on board because as Indy
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Clinton said, they're doing fucking nothing to help this situation.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, it's so easy for people to make
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: up faceless accounts and troll people. There needs to be
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: some sort of verification processes involved so that you can't.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Create faceless accounts.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, this case against Tattle Life really is a
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: landmark case. Legal experts believe that this case will set
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: a precedent for future action against digital defamation. And it's
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: only a matter of time before more victims come forward
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: and possibly even create a class action against Tattle Life.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: And that would likely push for regulatory reforms in online
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: speech and anonymous platforms. And it really is set to
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: open the floodgates to lawsuits, I think. Well, the Sands
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: couple who sued Tattle Life, they recently shared an Instagram
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: post encouraging creators and influencers to go and save their
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Tattle threads before they get deleted because they are saying, well, one,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: this site is probably going to go down because, as
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: you said, this is set precedence. So go and save
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: the evidence before it gets deleted.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I actually went on there to start screenshotting ours. Kate's
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: ready to join the class action.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I am.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: But I froze because I, again, I haven't looked at
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: our thread since, I think it was March 2024. And
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: last time I did, I was heavily pregnant. And the
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: absolute lies and bullshit these people were saying about me,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: I relate to everything that Leah Acenas has said, M Davies.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: And I'm not putting myself on the same platform as
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: them because I'm fucking shocked that we even have a
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Tattle thread.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: We're bloody nobodies. But it hurts.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: And I literally actually couldn't even screenshot it because I'm like,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I don't want to read what these people are saying.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: It's horrible.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: But you know what?
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: I will get someone to do it for us just
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: in case.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I'd happily join that class actually.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine how many people, like this is going
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: to run into the multi-millions. Like it is incredible how
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: many people have been defamed. I mean, you could go
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: and spend one minute on Tattle and see the 10
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: influencers be completely and utterly defamed.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Well, now that Sebastian Bond has been unmasked, surely it's
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: only a matter of time before the trolls actually on
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: the website do, because I'm assuming that as a part
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: of this legal action, Tattletail Life will have to hand
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: over their database. I know a lot of people... sign
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: up using a fake alias. But surely with IP addresses,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: the identities of these people are going to come out. Now,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: a further review of this case is scheduled for the
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: 26th of June, 2025, where ongoing enforcement of the damages
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: and injunctions will be evaluated. As for Sebastian Bond's future,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: he is facing substantial legal and reputational consequences, as well
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: as extensive financial orders against him and international enforcement underway.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: I'm very excited to see what happens here. Well, that
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: is where we're going to leave things for today. What
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: an episode to return to.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: It was a massive episode.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Sophie will be absolutely crushed that she wasn't a part
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: of this one because I think she hates huddle life
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: the most out of all of us. It's a love-hate relationship,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: isn't it?
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: This podcast was recorded on the traditional land of the
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains. We pay respect to
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: elders past and present. And if you do enjoy the show,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: we will be dropping a subscriber-only episode on Thursday. And
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: please don't forget to leave us a review.