Latest / Alternative Exit / Alternative Exit #67 | It Feels Too Good To Be True….but It Is | Kevin Franks, novo hair

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Alternative Exit #67 | It Feels Too Good To Be True….but It Is | Kevin Franks, novo hair · Alternative Exit

• Kevin Franks: Yeah. Andy Farquharson: Hello everyone, Andy Farquison here, and welcome back to the Alternative Exit. Our next guest is the former owner of a hair salon in Southern England. And in April this year, after 43 years in the industry, he's handed over the whole business to his team. So Novo Hair is now like 100% employee owned. 15 people, all owners via an EOT in the UK. And today we're going to hear his journey. Kevin Franks, welcome to the Alternative Exit. Kevin Franks: Hello there. Andy Farquharson: mate, thank you so much for joining. I said it's so great to have owners on, sharing their story about how they found employee ownership and and and what was the journey. But before we start there, could you tell people a little bit about Novo Hair and the business that you built? Kevin Franks: Well, thank you for having me on. I started in business probably 40, 40 plus years ago, had three incarnations of the business. The final incarnation of it was Novo Hair. we had a number of sites, finished up with one very large site. and it was really a case of how do I exit this Great business, but at some point you've you've got to exit. So, you know, we looked at a number of routes selling to third parties, which never felt comfortable for me. my team had served me and the business really well for a long time, and I wanted to pass the business on in a way which worked best for them as well as myself. So I came across the EOT option and a good friend of mine is the CEO of a large EOT. Which put me onto it. But for a long time, as you know, it wasn't cost effective for such a small business as mine. my business turns over about 750,000 sterling, 14 to 15 staff, quite a small business to consider an EOT. But the costs of it have come down significantly. Following a conversation with yourself about six months ago, you put me in touch with some people and yeah, all went ahead and it's it's a lovely feeling. knowing that the business has a future. my path out of it over a five year period is transitioned nicely. I can go on and work for the company afterwards or I can sail off into the sunset. So very happy. Andy Farquharson: So which one is it? Are you staying on or you're sailing? Kevin Franks: to be honest with you, as it stands, I you know, I love ultimately I'm a hairdresser. I still love the hairdressing, but the the running the business had become something which my energy for had, you know, had had diminished somewhat over the years. You know, you could only have so much energy for that. So I think to be honest, I'll probably do two or three days a week hairdressing, but my days are very short days. My days are like Andy Farquharson: Awesome. Kevin Franks: four, four to five hours. So it's more of a paid hobby than a than a job. Andy Farquharson: Okay. It's good to keep the hands occupied. so Kevin Franks: Absolutely. Andy Farquharson: so you you said you you weighed up a couple of other options. what what were some of those options for for for for for hairdressing? Kevin Franks: well, you know, I think the thing the thing to for my mind, which I I think all hairdressers or all business people tend to think is I've got to get out at some point. I've got to sell at some point. It's pointless getting to the point where you think I need to get out tomorrow. You've really got to plan ahead. in my business, sale of businesses is is quite difficult. You know, most people In my business, you're probably lucky to get one to one and a half times your annual profit and your retained profit. I never fully Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Kevin Franks: understand EBITDA, but one to one and a half times EBITDA, which is not a lot of money. You might as well hang around for another year and a half, you know? So Andy Farquharson: And take it out. Yeah. Kevin Franks: yeah. So I I was approached by one company who bought out a for a colleague of mine a couple of years back. They wanted to buy. So I had meetings with them and they wanted me to work for them for five years. And I got the distinct impression Andy Farquharson: Wow. Kevin Franks: that I couldn't work for this person for five years. So this so that became a non-start. So then I had sold to another company who was recently entering the industry. They wanted to buy a large number of salons. They wanted my salon to be the the brand. but I did my diligence on them and one of them had been a bankrupt and the other one was had no assets. So I said, You can buy me, but I want the whole lot on day one. which they said fine. So it was a good deal. But then when it came to it, they couldn't come up with the money. They wanted to pay me over the five years and I had no no trust in them to do so. they did buy another salon that I know of. And that went belly up within six months. So it's it was a close shave. Andy Farquharson: Well yeah. Kevin Franks: And then the third person came as a result of marketing, discrete marketing. Andy Farquharson: Isn't it Kevin Franks: and we they, you know, we did the whole NDA, all that sort of stuff. and then they reduced their offer by about 70% at you know the latter stages. So once again. And also I did feel with that company, even if they had to come up with the money, I did feel that my staff would hate me for it. And I had to hang around Andy Farquharson: Yeah, okay. Kevin Franks: for three years and watch them hate me for it. So they were my they were my experiences, you know. I c I can be hated to a degree, but I can't be hated for three years and be there every day. Yeah. Andy Farquharson: Yeah, okay. So it sounds like in all those options, like you were gonna be sort of handcuffed to the business, like Kevin Franks: Yes. Andy Farquharson: where where you don't have the flexibility that you've got now. Kevin Franks: Yeah. Andy Farquharson: how are they within those options, how were they thinking about the team? Right? W was there any talk about what they'd do to to either hold on to or optimize the environment for the for for for the workers who are staying? Kevin Franks: Yeah, not really. I mean, I say as a hairdresser, I know an awful lot of people and a lot of my clientele are in business. and normally from what you know, my my perception of it is that a lot of people buy a book of business or they buy tangible assets, you know, or they're buying something. In in my business, you're buying collectively a group of hairdressers who are capable of taking money. If that group of hairdressers decides they're not happy, They go and find another salon, and you're left with nothing. So Andy Farquharson: Totally. Kevin Franks: that's I think that's why they so wanted me to stay in the business. And it's very normal for the salon owner to stay in the business. so you know, they didn't really tell me what they would do with my staff. you know, they're buying a business for quite a lot of money, so it it pays them to keep the staff happy, but My colleague who sold to this company that wanted to buy me, they started doing things like changing all the products they use, changing working practices, and you know, the staff started seeping out the door, which also, Andy Farquharson: Mm-hmm. Kevin Franks: quite importantly, meant that his tar his earnout targets were impossible to achieve. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, you Andy Farquharson: Went out the door too. Yeah. Okay. Kevin Franks: know, whilst they didn't give me any assurances, You know, th they didn't give me the indication they wanted to change anything, but you know, it didn't feel good. You know, it didn't feel like something that I've given my life to and I want to see have a life after me, you know. Andy Farquharson: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, I mean, as you're going through this, I mean you talked, you mentioned a little bit earlier that other sell-on earners think about sort of a valuation of just being sort of one, one and a half years versus of earnings. How did you think in your selling to your employees? You've talked about wanting to create a route that's best for your team. and they obviously in a in an EOT, the way you've structured it, like is that you're going to get paid out over this period of five years? But How did you think about the valuation in this for for this model? Kevin Franks: Well, I had a number in my head which was a very similar number to what I'd agreed to sell for, to be honest. and then Andy Farquharson: Okay. What what formed that number in your head? Kevin Franks: A gut feeling number more Andy Farquharson: Okay. Kevin Franks: than anything else. You know, it was you, I think you get a feeling for what would I walk away for? You know, and then there's a bit of a range, but you know, it was it was an educated guess, but it was a number. and then I spoke to yourself, and you put me in touch with can I say their name? Yeah. Andy Farquharson: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Kevin Franks: Mobius. No, not Mobius. KoEo. Yep. Andy Farquharson: Go GoEo, Chris Maslin, a prior guest of the pod, and we'll link we'll link that episode in the show notes. Kevin Franks: Okay. he was very good. I'd I'd previously for about five years had discussions with another company, guy named Kingsley, and he'd given me a a similar number to what I felt was my gut feeling. Andy Farquharson: Okay. Kevin Franks: and then I spoke to Chris and Chris did a did a valuation of the business with a range and the range was my gut feeling number plus about fifteen Fifteen percent as a range. So my gut feeling number was the bottom figure and the the top figure of that range was about fifteen percent more. we came to the decision to go with the bottom number to Andy Farquharson: Mm-hmm. Kevin Franks: make to create an environment where my staff could take over and there would definitely be enough retained profit in the business each year to pay them an annual bonus. In the five years leading up to my walk away. And then Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Kevin Franks: once I walk away, they get all of that, plus they get what the business has been paying me for the last five years. So, you know, I think I felt very comfortable with not saddling the company with a debt that was unsustainable or not unsustainable, because it is sustainable, not a hard to achieve target. Andy Farquharson: Right, how was like it sounds like you've been you've obviously had the employees, your fellow employees now at the heart of this transaction. All right. They're they're sort of it seems to be their their the the their structure, their position in the business seems to be sort of a a key factor in how you're deciding which path. and so which which is awesome to see. I mean, what was your reaction when you told them that they were going to be owners? Kevin Franks: Well, I mean this was this was a a real learning curve, you know, because I I thought I'd do a big presentation and I would call a extraordinary meeting sort of thing. So I got all the staff together and presented the concept well, presented the fact that I'd sold the business. I'd agreed to sell the business and I thought in my In my lunacy, that they would be excited by the the prospect of the new owner. And I'd Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Kevin Franks: had a I had a photograph of the team blown up and I said, you know, I will introduce you to the new owner shortly. and then after about a minute of building up or two, I turned this picture around and showed them, and then they all looked at me completely blank blankly and didn't understand what was happening. It then took me about Andy Farquharson: Ha ha ha ha. Kevin Franks: Half an hour to explain to them what an EOT was, because they had no idea. I mean, to be honest with you, my accountant didn't have much of an idea what an EOT was. So how I'm gonna get 15 hairdressers to understand it in a couple of minutes is is not easy. So Andy Farquharson: Ha ha. Kevin Franks: anyone who's watching and thinking of doing it, do not present it to your team like that. because the the time in between me telling the team that I'd sold or agreed to sell and introduce them to the new owners. them was just a period where everyone was worried sick and you know they'd all worked for salons or some of them worked for salons that had changed ownership it had gone horribly so you know it took a little while for them to be absorbed we had some champagne and had a chat a breakout session and by the end of it they felt a lot better but you know I think the old adage is if it feels too good to be true it's too good to be true and I I very much feel with the EOT it feels too good to be true, but it is true. You know, and it takes people are very mistrusting, you know, they they all they've all gone away and researched the life out of it and you know, they've come back saying, you know, where's my share certificate and all that sort of stuff. But the I think the overriding experience that I've had, because it has been, you know, five months now, is that the the the trust is is there now. The the excitement about the future is there now. You know, they're building towards something. Every month that passes is one month down as far as their payment or my payment plan is concerned. there's definitely a a difference in their motivation now, which is what you know, which is what I I hoped and expected to see. Andy Farquharson: Okay, that's super cool. It's like that story you talked about with that announcement is one that I've actually heard multiple times on this podcast. and Kevin Franks: really? Okay. Andy Farquharson: multiple times about how other people and every every single learner has the exact same reaction. It's just all filled with fear, uncertainty and doubt. So if if you were to go and do it again, what would you change? Kevin Franks: Well, I mean, the interesting thing was that my manager who is so I've got three trustees, myself, my manager, and an independent. Now my manager knew about this for about six months before I did it. My manager went through the cycle of I don't understand this, I need to look it up, I need to do some research, and then became fully engaged. before we launched. And she was really excited about it. We had some Some lovely keyrings manufactured. I don't know if I showed you them, Andy, but they're like Andy Farquharson: Not. Kevin Franks: they're my logo, Novo, and then underneath partner. So everyone on the day got the one of these lovely key rings. My Sorry, bear with me. Andy Farquharson: No worries. Kevin Franks: right. How do I go back? there we are. Sorry. so yeah. If I was to do it again in answer to your question, I would start with the basic concept of what an EOT is. And I'd I'd run through that, I'd compare it to John Lewis, I'd compare it to You know, in my l in my local area we've got a college that's up the road, which has got three thousand six hundred employees across the area or the country. I would definitely use other examples of what an EOT is before announcing it. Or maybe do a couple of a couple of meetings and stagger it. But definitely you I myself was very excited. you know, I'm not You know, my interest is selling out the business in a manner which is both good for me and good for them. I wouldn't have done it if it was just good for them and it wasn't good for me. You know, it has to be best of both worlds. but once I'd you know, once I'd accepted the lower figure, which means you're kind of leaving some on the table, and implemented the framework, I was very excited about what I was doing for them. Andy Farquharson: Mm-hmm. Kevin Franks: my manager was extremely excited about what it meant for the team. And in my excitement, you know, I thought I'd do this grand unvow and everyone would be dancing and celebrating and letting off, you know, crackers or whatever. It it didn't happen like that. If I was doing it again, I would definitely I'd probably involve them at a slightly earlier stage. And Andy Farquharson: Mm-hmm. Kevin Franks: then then the the day of transition. becomes a day of celebration, you know, rather than a day of, my God, what's happening? And I need to get my head around this sort of thing. That would be my that would be my only advice. You know, it it's Andy Farquharson: Okay. Yep. Wait. Kevin Franks: very easy to sort of get absorbed in the excitement of what you're doing for them without realizing that actually they don't understand what's happening. So Andy Farquharson: Yeah, th th they don't know what to be excited about. Kevin Franks: Yeah, yeah. Andy Farquharson: but you you did mention that you left a little bit of money on the table, you took the lower valuation, which is the right thing to do for them. Did they did you describe that to them? Was that part of the education? Kevin Franks: Yes. Yep. Yeah. Two things I did, I think. One is I explained that there was a range and I was taking the low end of the range. And I was taking that to not saddle the company with a higher debt to me than it needed to have. I mean to give you a tiny bit of background, I hadn't taken any income from my business for about eighteen months, any realistic income. to leave a lot of money in the business which became the day one payment or the down payment. So so I so as I say, I went for the lower range and the other thing it I I did, which was something I was advised to do, was to set up a quick win for my staff. So we I said, you know, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna create a bonus pot which you can build. And that bonus pot would be all of the profit from all of the sales of shampoo, conditioner, gel, hairspray, you know, wet goods, as we call it. All of that money went into a bonus pot. All of the in-salon hair treatments, conditioning treatments, et cetera, went into the bonus pot. And some things they had immediate control over went into that bonus pot. So at the end of the year, that bonus pot would go to them, plus any money that was left in profit could go across to that bonus pot as well. So we gave them a quick win kind of thing as well. Andy Farquharson: Yeah. I love that. Making and making it super tangible as well, like for for for that. So, mate, we'll come back to that. I because I do really want to learn more about that, like sort of how that that engagement piece works. But just want to sort of back it up a little bit. I mean, what was a what was the most common question that you heard from your team after you announced it? Kevin Franks: I think the most prom common question was If I'm a partner, am I not? Yes, I can share in the profit, but what if the company makes losses? Or what if the company goes bust? You know, if I'm a partner, am I liable? So that that was a a common concern. if if I'm gonna get, you know, whatever the value of the business is, let's let's just argue there's a hundred thousand pounds as a valuation and there's 10 employees. Then you know, they've potentially got 10,000 pounds worth of stock. how can I get 10,000 pounds of stock if I'm not paying for it? You know, that that kind of question is the is the bit. 'Cause I as I say, when I when I decided to do it, I called my accountant and said, you know, this is what I'm thinking of doing. And he he he didn't know what an EOT was. So, you know, how do you expect employees to know? important it there is a a need for a greater awareness of it. I mean one of one of the things that I want to do is to is to create a much greater degree of awareness of this in my industry. But but generally generally for small businesses, because it's it's a it ki it tends to be a bit of a big business option and not a small business option, but it it clearly should be. Andy Farquharson: Yeah, well, I think that that's I think that's something that we're we've seen. Like it is sort of starting in the US, where it's much more sort of big business. The UK's really championed it for for smaller business, but it still seems to be associated with more sophisticated advisors Kevin Franks: Yeah. Andy Farquharson: who are doing to their business. It hasn't sort of bled into sort of like the accountants that are working at your level. But I think that the example that you're setting of of setting up an EOT and the work that Chris is doing at GoEo. in a make in making it super serviceable for for for smaller companies. And I know Christian Wilson, another ex-guest, will will share his details too on the pod, has sort of made that really easy for people too. But look, I I I love that story of of making it really tangible, right? for for for the employees by setting up that sort of additional bonus scheme. I mean, what are some ways in which what are Kevin Franks: Okay. Andy Farquharson: like that that's obviously a one-time announcement. I mean, how have you, after five months, How have you brought this ownership to life on a daily basis for the workers? Kevin Franks: I think it I think I mean, firstly I I did the announcement on the eighth of April or the seventh of April. I had a a key personnel catch up meeting about two weeks ago where I took them all out for dinner. Well, actually they took themselves out for dinner because they own the business now. Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Kevin Franks: so you know we had a a catch up and and just said, you know, where are you now? In you know, from my questions to them, you know, where where are you in your headspace for this now? Because it it really is yours now. And you know, they they felt much more serious about it. So, you know, I I started by sharing the financials. I think that the an important thing now is you know the financials for something I think I heard it on a might be on one of your podcasts or is on a another EOT podcast, is that previously the analogy was this guy said that previously he'd he'd baked a cake for his staff and he'd shown them the cake but only he got to eat it thing. You've heard that before Andy Farquharson: Yeah, yeah. Kevin Franks: actually. And this, you know, when I've done the financials previously, 'cause I'm I'm a great believer in sharing the financials with my staff, it was almost like a glazed look over their face because actually, you know, well, it's all very good, but it doesn't affect me. Whereas when I took them all out for dinner and went for the financials, you know, you you could just sense they're much more engaged because, you know, the the net profit at the end of the day is something they can share in. So yeah, that's that's a difference. I I definitely think they, you know, they they're more interested in performance year on year than they previously were. Yeah, I supp I suppose a greater degree of engagement and also what I've tried to do, what what before I set this whole thing up, what I did was, you know, to to make sure it had the potential was to get all of the things that I do on a daily, weekly basis, and make sure I've got somebody else that can do them in the business and and started to release me of them, but also empower them to do it. and I think that's something which now those people that are doing it They're they're the sort of it is their responsibility now. It's not a well it's you know, I'm doing it as favour to you. It's it's their responsibility and it's their it's their investment. That time and energy and focus that they're giving those tasks is like their investment in it, if that makes sense. Andy Farquharson: Absolutely. I mean it makes sense. I mean but how did you go in terms of alignment of people's roles and responsibilities and and how did like because typically like in in a salon like as you said, people come up, they d like they they come in, they do their job, they sort of the and then they come out. But now they've got to come in and they've got additional responsibilities. So how did that go? Kevin Franks: Yeah, I think I think that's a sort of kind of slightly organic thing. I mean, my manager, she was you know to give you a slight bit of background, you know, my salon's quite known for having good staff pretension. So my longest member of staff has been with me for probably thirty years. And Andy Farquharson: wow. Kevin Franks: I've got a lot of I've got a lot of ten year plus employees, some twenty year plus employees. Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Kevin Franks: So, you know, I mean In in any business you've got different types of personalities and you know, some of my staff are what I would I I hate the word cash cow because it's quite disrespectful. But you know, some of my staff come to work, they pack out their day with clients. That is their that is their contribution to the business. You know, they in my business you have this thing about horizontal ma horizontal management or vertical management. So we work with a a a book And everyone has their own column, you know. And some people all they worry about is their column. So we we call them vertical. And then we have the management people that really worry about everyone's columns, they're more horizontal. So my manager was someone that is quite good with the horizontal approach. You know, she looks at Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Kevin Franks: everyone's columns and all that sort of stuff. And she's been with me a long time. She's very trustworthy. And most importantly, she has the time to do the management. And then what you have is you have staff who start to, you know, they do their training and then they cut they come on the floor, they become hairdressers, but they don't get fully booked on day one. It takes a while. So those people I try to utilize their free time, working on the theory that the idol mind is a devil's playground, sort of thing. So, you know, when they go on the floor, we give them tasks and sometimes they outgrow those tasks or sometimes they proved to not be so great at them, but the ones that retain them, you know, we we stick with them and they become, you know, their tasks ongoing. and then you get some staff, like one of my members of staff, she she got a little bit bored with just the hairdressing and she wanted to get involved in training, so she became the trainer. So I pretty much what I do now is is strategy more than more than micromanaging. Andy Farquharson: Yep. Mate, that sounds awesome. I and I think that I mean, obviously having a having a manager and a leader that you trust is super helpful. I mean, you you did sort of allude to the earlier that, hey, look, like they you went out for dinner, you said we I took them out for dinner. No, no, they took themselves out for dinner. I Kevin Franks: Yeah, yeah. Andy Farquharson: mean, how did you how was that process of defining governance as to who can invest in those kinds of like social activities, for example? Kevin Franks: Sorry, can you can you explain that slightly differently? Andy Farquharson: I was Kevin, just sort of just coming coming back to like thinking about governance. Who decides how who can spend money in the business? Now that you're not the owner, we've got the trustee there, like what does Kevin Franks: Yeah, yeah. Andy Farquharson: it yeah, what does that look like? Kevin Franks: Right, okay, so we have in our in our contract, we have a figure which which I can make or my manager can make decisions up to. It's quite a small Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Kevin Franks: figure. I think it's three and a half thousand. But Andy Farquharson: Okay. Kevin Franks: it's got to be a pr in in my kind of business, it's got to be a pretty big decision, you know, three and a half Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Kevin Franks: thousand. and really all I do is, you know, I just I said to the manager, you know, I want to take everyone out for dinner. you okay with that? Yes, I am. It's it's pretty much simple as that. Whereas we looked at recently I looked at the so my my manager gets one and one percent of all salon turnover and one and a half when it goes above a certain key KPI. and I decided that actually I want her to have one and a half of everything. So I went to the the other trustee, because we represent two thirds. And said, I want to do this, you happy with that? Because I know I know the manager will be happy with it, but you know, I is that okay by you? She was like, Yeah, it's fine. So really all the decisions are are based around that. But you know, stupid things like shortly after one of the one of the silly little things in my business is the tumble dryer gets blocked up with fluff and stuff. So Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Kevin Franks: I went I I saw two of my apprentices cleaning out the filters on the tumble dryer and said, you know, good job. save us a hundred and twenty pound call out fee. Well, won't save me a hundred and twenty pound. It will save you a hundred and twenty pound call out fee. So everything I try to just bring everything back to them, you know, make them realise Andy Farquharson: I love it. Kevin Franks: that it's them that's paying now. Andy Farquharson: Yeah, yeah. yeah, it's such a great story and so tangible in small business as well. Like Kevin Franks: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Andy Farquharson: very cool. So, Kevin, before like we're we're coming to the end, but before I finish the podcast, I always ask everyone a fast round of questions. I'm just gonna ask you three questions and you can just offer a quick response. How does that sound? Kevin Franks: Yeah, yeah, sounds good. Andy Farquharson: Okay, so who is a leader that you most admire in employee ownership? Kevin Franks: you want a fast answer. So I mean, to be honest with you, I the Andy Farquharson: Ha ha ha. Kevin Franks: one that's given me the most advice is a is a lady named Julie Abraham. Andy Farquharson: Mm-hmm. Kevin Franks: Julie Abraham is the CEO of a company called Richer Sounds. Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Kevin Franks: she happens to be a friend of mine, but you know, I I learned about CEOs from her. Sorry, I learned about EOTs from her. And she's been someone that's sort of guided me quite well. I'd I'd point the finger at you slightly as well. You know, I think we've had we had a couple of good conversations beforehand which gave me a lot of confidence as well. So that's my quick answer. Andy Farquharson: Very cool. Thank you. And Richter Sounds is a is a great story. And I'll again I'll put some links in the podcast of a very famous sort of EOT transition. So next question. What is your favorite resource on employee ownership? Kevin Franks: I'd I'd have to say probably probably Chris and Mobius, you know, Chris Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Kevin Franks: Gary O, Mobius, they've both been resources that I've had a lot of conversations with and continue to have advice from, so I'd I'd say them. Andy Farquharson: Okay, fantastic. And to round it out, what would you say to a f another business owner who's sitting on the fence regarding a transition to employee ownership? Kevin Franks: I mean I I I'd definitely say do it because I think it's just so such a wonderful exit. But my my biggest advice would be get all your ducks in a row. Andy Farquharson: Yeah. Kevin Franks: Well in advance. You you need to you need to get systems in place because if you're giving if you're transitioning away from it and giving it to your staff, then your staff have to be capable of running it. A hundred percent running it. You you should be able to go on holiday for a month and not have to think about your business. And if you can do that, then it's a business that is worthy of moving into an EOT. If you're running it and you're micromanaging every elephant element of it, then it's not gonna work. Andy Farquharson: Yeah, I love that. That's such a great message. and encourage everyone to take a month holiday, see what happens. Kevin Franks: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Andy Farquharson: Awesome. Hey Kevin, thank you so much for your time and sharing your thoughts with us today and being sort of, I guess, one of the leaders in terms of the salon industry to to come and make that transition towards EOT. I mean, if people want to learn more about your story or reach out, is there is where how can they people get in touch with you? Kevin Franks: Well, I mean you you're more than welcome to link to my salon website. if they want to get in touch through through that, just drop me an an email and I'm more than happy to help them. you can if you'd like to share my email address, then you know, I'm more than happy to have chats with anyone and just give them some sort of heads up forward planning advice. Andy Farquharson: Okay. Kevin Franks: and particularly if they want to get all say, get all their ducks in a row. You know, I think there is There's probably about a year of work in the lead up to it, which I think is invaluable, particularly if it's a new idea, it's not something you've done, you know. So yeah, you're more than welcome to chat my email in and I'm more than happy to have chat with people. Andy Farquharson: Very good. Look, I'm sure you'll probably get some some listeners reaching out because I said it's been such a such a great story, like and and your thoughtful approach and in sort of how you yeah, as it you really wanted to to to understand it before you went through the went through the process. So yeah, people will be reaching out. And Kevin, thank you so much for joining us on the alternative exit. Kevin Franks: Thank you, Andy, for highlighting my story. Andy Farquharson: Cheers.