Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #413 Kids Asking For Expensive Gifts

Transcript

#413 Kids Asking For Expensive Gifts · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:02
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
0:06
Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
0:09
Speaker 2: Now, when we are materialistic as parents, that is when
0:12
Speaker 2: we use materialistic gifts to say, you know, I love
0:15
Speaker 2: you so much, and here's what I'm giving you because
0:17
Speaker 2: of it that actually enhances and builds materialism in our kids.
0:21
Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom
0:25
Speaker 1: and dad.
0:25
Speaker 2: Ho ho ho mery crip, you don't you're looking at
0:29
Speaker 2: me like there's a mom?
0:30
Speaker 3: Is that the best? Ho ho ho You've got? Well?
0:32
Speaker 2: No, but I don't want to be all silly about
0:34
Speaker 2: it and go will Sander right, just come on, This
0:36
Speaker 2: is doctor Justin Colson doing a terrible Santa. Obviously, missus
0:39
Speaker 2: Happy Families has not been impressed. I'm the author of
0:41
Speaker 2: six books about raising happy families, my wife and co
0:43
Speaker 2: host The Mom Do Our six Daughters. Hey, we get
0:46
Speaker 2: awesome feedback from you via the Apple podcast app, where
0:49
Speaker 2: people leave ratings and reviews, but also via podcasts at
0:52
Speaker 2: happy families dot com.
0:53
Speaker 4: Today you and doctor.
0:55
Speaker 2: Andrew Hatch from Canada has sent us a voice memo.
0:58
Speaker 4: How awesome is this feedback?
1:00
Speaker 5: Wife and I started listening to your podcast about two
1:04
Speaker 5: three months ago, and we've found the advice and counsel
1:08
Speaker 5: that you give to be the thing that we were
1:10
Speaker 5: looking for. Between the two of us, we have close
1:14
Speaker 5: to fifteen sixteen years of post secondary our education in
1:17
Speaker 5: childhood education, behavioral neuroscience. I'm a practicing clinician, and we
1:26
Speaker 5: felt like we've struggled raising our children and struggled trying
1:30
Speaker 5: to help them be the best they can be. And
1:34
Speaker 5: I'd just like to thank you for the tremendous difference
1:36
Speaker 5: that you're making for my family and I hope for
1:39
Speaker 5: many other families. I know both my wife and I
1:42
Speaker 5: share your podcast everybody that we know, and hopefully you'll
1:46
Speaker 5: be able to continue doing this for many years to come.
1:49
Speaker 2: We are so grateful for that feedback. Thank you Andrew
1:52
Speaker 2: for taking the time to send us a voice memo.
1:54
Speaker 2: If you would like to send us feedback, it makes
1:56
Speaker 2: our Christmas, it makes our day. We love getting your
1:59
Speaker 2: feedback about how the podcast has helped.
2:01
Speaker 4: You can email us.
2:02
Speaker 2: Podcasts at podcasts with Anes at Happy Families dot com
2:07
Speaker 2: dot au. You can also just jump onto Apple Podcasts
2:11
Speaker 2: and leave a rating and review, because when you do that,
2:13
Speaker 2: other people get to find out about the show. Now
2:15
Speaker 2: today's topic. I'm really excited about this. We received some
2:19
Speaker 2: feedback from somebody again via podcast at happy families dot
2:22
Speaker 2: com dot you.
2:23
Speaker 4: What was their question?
2:24
Speaker 3: They mentioned that their children are obsessed with expensive presence
2:28
Speaker 3: that they can't afford as a family. They want to
2:31
Speaker 3: know how they can avoid disappointing their children on Christmas morning.
2:34
Speaker 2: So this kind of taps into there's a few different
2:37
Speaker 2: ways that we can approach this, but I want to
2:39
Speaker 2: talk specifically about the issue of materialism, because whether you're
2:43
Speaker 2: rich or poor, whether you've got finances or you know
2:47
Speaker 2: and your flush or you're completely out, the children do
2:51
Speaker 2: have expectations at Christmas. But there's some really cool science
2:56
Speaker 2: that's only been published just in the last couple of
2:58
Speaker 2: years that really allops this idea of materialism and where
3:01
Speaker 2: it comes from.
3:03
Speaker 4: Can I share it with you? I want to geek out.
3:04
Speaker 4: You're going to geek Oh, okay, all right, this is Kylie.
3:07
Speaker 4: Whenever hit me. Whever I start talking about science, guys like,
3:11
Speaker 4: oh my goodness, can we just be real? This is
3:13
Speaker 4: really real.
3:14
Speaker 2: So these scientists are published in the Journal of Consumer Research.
3:19
Speaker 4: They expanded on.
3:20
Speaker 2: Some like decades of really cool research, and here's what
3:24
Speaker 2: they found. Children who receive material rewards from their parents
3:29
Speaker 2: are more likely to be materialistic because they see material
3:33
Speaker 2: goodies as a signal that they are valuable people, that
3:38
Speaker 2: they are worthy. So the material possessions basically say, you know,
3:43
Speaker 2: I'm enhancing myself. It defines who I am. In other words,
3:49
Speaker 2: when we are materialistic as parents, that is when we
3:52
Speaker 2: use materialistic gifts to say, you know, I love you
3:55
Speaker 2: so much, and here's what I'm giving you because of it.
3:58
Speaker 2: That that actually enhances and builds materialism in our kids.
4:03
Speaker 2: They feel like they need material things to demonstrate that
4:06
Speaker 2: they're of worth.
4:08
Speaker 3: So that that whole extrinsic motivation or extrinsic recognition, yeah,
4:18
Speaker 3: helps them to feel of worth.
4:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, when I've got things that are fancy, When I've
4:22
Speaker 2: got you know, the latest phone or the latest do
4:24
Speaker 2: dad the latest give mod that all the kids at
4:26
Speaker 2: school are talking about, then I've got status and I'm
4:30
Speaker 2: of worth. There's that extrinsic focus, and that's the materialistic pathway.
4:36
Speaker 2: And what happens there is that I mean, society as
4:38
Speaker 2: a whole certainly perpetuates and fosters that the school yard,
4:41
Speaker 2: without question can do that, but it actually starts in
4:44
Speaker 2: the home, and this research highlights that. There's also another
4:46
Speaker 2: really interesting thing that they the research has found, and
4:50
Speaker 2: that is that when parents are rejecting of their kids,
4:54
Speaker 2: you know, when parents are not warm towards their children,
4:57
Speaker 2: then the kids just gravitate to those external material, realistic
5:00
Speaker 2: symbols as a signal.
5:02
Speaker 4: That I'm good enough. Yep, and so I reckon.
5:06
Speaker 2: Now, I'm not suggesting that this is the case for
5:08
Speaker 2: the person who emailed us. I'm sure that they're living
5:11
Speaker 2: in a beautiful home and looking after their family the
5:14
Speaker 2: best that they can. But it's so critically important that
5:17
Speaker 2: we don't foster insecurity in our children by making material rewards,
5:23
Speaker 2: material gifts some sort of a symbol of how worthy
5:27
Speaker 2: they are. We actually need to create the connection and
5:30
Speaker 2: the relationship as the symbol, not the materialism. So that's
5:33
Speaker 2: my science geek out.
5:35
Speaker 3: Well, I think it works really well into I guess
5:38
Speaker 3: where I'd like to take our conversation. I know how
5:40
Speaker 3: much you love to geek out with all of the science,
5:44
Speaker 3: and as I was listening to I think the thing
5:47
Speaker 3: that just really stands out to me is it's really
5:50
Speaker 3: about changing the focus of what we do at Christmas
5:53
Speaker 3: time with our children.
5:54
Speaker 2: Well not just at Christmas time, but right throughout the year,
5:56
Speaker 2: but certainly at Christmas.
5:58
Speaker 4: You know the whole thing.
5:59
Speaker 2: You know, sand is only going to give you a
6:00
Speaker 2: gift if you've been nice, not naughty. That's an extrinsic
6:05
Speaker 2: marker of your value to Santa or to me as
6:09
Speaker 2: a person. And I reckon, there's a really big problem
6:12
Speaker 2: with this. This extrinsic reward actually promotes a materialistic approach
6:17
Speaker 2: to life.
6:18
Speaker 3: I have actually never thought about it like that. Obviously,
6:22
Speaker 3: We've had lots of discussions around Santa in our home,
6:26
Speaker 3: and you know, kind of what part he's going to
6:28
Speaker 3: play in our Christmas as a family, But I've never
6:32
Speaker 3: actually thought about that extrinsic recognition.
6:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, bit mind blown, right, But you'll I don't know
6:40
Speaker 2: if I've ever even been explicit with you about it,
6:42
Speaker 2: But in our home, we don't do a lot when
6:43
Speaker 2: it comes to giving the kids big gifts and making
6:47
Speaker 2: a big deal about materialistic stuff. We just don't do that.
6:50
Speaker 2: And I've always just had it in my mind. Maybe
6:53
Speaker 2: I've never even told you. The more we do that,
6:55
Speaker 2: the more kids actually feel that they're a value when
6:56
Speaker 2: they're getting that stuff, but when they're not getting that stuff,
6:58
Speaker 2: they start to question their value.
7:00
Speaker 4: Whereas our approach is very different.
7:02
Speaker 2: We actually try to minimize a focus on anything materialistic
7:05
Speaker 2: or extrinsic without being all austere and making our kids
7:08
Speaker 2: feel impoverished. I mean, we still live I think, a
7:11
Speaker 2: really nice life with our family, but it's not about
7:14
Speaker 2: the stuff. Stuff doesn't make you happy. It's about the connection.
7:18
Speaker 4: And I love that focus love.
7:20
Speaker 3: I love that we yet to spend time with our
7:22
Speaker 3: children in really meaningful ways as a result.
7:24
Speaker 2: So after the break, we're going to share five ways,
7:27
Speaker 2: regardless of your financial position, five ways that you can
7:29
Speaker 2: help your kids to move away from materialism and have
7:33
Speaker 2: those high expectations from Santa at Christmas.
7:36
Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families Podcast.
7:39
Speaker 6: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having
7:42
Speaker 6: to feel bad or in trouble. The dos and don'ts
7:44
Speaker 6: of discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits
7:47
Speaker 6: with love, compassion and humanity.
7:50
Speaker 4: Find it now at.
7:50
Speaker 6: Happyfamilies dot com dot a u slash shop.
7:54
Speaker 3: It's a Happy Families podcast, The podcast for the time
7:56
Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now and we have
7:59
Speaker 3: been to talking today about how we can help our
8:02
Speaker 3: children to not.
8:04
Speaker 2: Be so materialistic, and the reality is they're going to
8:07
Speaker 2: be right, Like, if all their friends are getting this
8:09
Speaker 2: really cool thing, they're probably going to want it. And
8:12
Speaker 2: sometimes I think it's okay to get it for them,
8:15
Speaker 2: Like sometimes that's fine. I don't want this podcast to
8:17
Speaker 2: sound like we're all like, you know, don't let the
8:19
Speaker 2: kids have cool stuff, because that's not it at all.
8:21
Speaker 2: If you're in a position to do it and you
8:22
Speaker 2: want to spoil them every now and again, go for
8:25
Speaker 2: your life, fill your boots, have fun with that. But
8:29
Speaker 2: it's not always going to make them happy and they're
8:32
Speaker 2: not always going to remember it. So definitely it's fun
8:37
Speaker 2: to have fun with gift giving. But over the last
8:39
Speaker 2: I mean, we've been married for twenty two to twenty
8:41
Speaker 2: three years, and I reckon over that time period, probably
8:45
Speaker 2: twenty of those years, we have been so tight financially
8:50
Speaker 2: and we've been thinking how in the world we're going
8:51
Speaker 2: to get through Christmas. And so I want to talk
8:53
Speaker 2: about five different ways that we can remove the focus
8:56
Speaker 2: of materialism from our kids so that they can have
8:59
Speaker 2: a wonderful Christmas without being so obsessed with getting the
9:02
Speaker 2: expensive gifts.
9:04
Speaker 3: Well, I think one of the first things is just
9:07
Speaker 3: not trying to keep up with the Joneses. I know,
9:09
Speaker 3: I was a Jones.
9:12
Speaker 4: Jones Kylie Jones. I try to keep up with the Joneses.
9:15
Speaker 4: There wasn't much to keep up with.
9:17
Speaker 3: But I think that's really important that you know, whatever
9:20
Speaker 3: your focus is at Christmas, it's about your family, not
9:23
Speaker 3: what you know the next two neighbors are doing, or
9:25
Speaker 3: what the family down the streets doing.
9:26
Speaker 4: And we've even said that to our kids. You know,
9:28
Speaker 4: they're like, oh, but so and So've got such and such.
9:29
Speaker 2: And we see, I know, and their family can afford
9:31
Speaker 2: that this year, but our family is not in a
9:33
Speaker 2: position to do that. So we're going to be grateful
9:35
Speaker 2: for what we've got and we're going to shift the focus.
9:38
Speaker 2: But not trying to keep up is a critical way
9:42
Speaker 2: to do that.
9:43
Speaker 3: And so one year, one of the things that we did,
9:45
Speaker 3: actually one of my favorite Christmases that we've had with
9:47
Speaker 3: our children, is we decided that we were going to
9:50
Speaker 3: have a homemade Christmas. I was right into my crafting
9:53
Speaker 3: back then and love just spending time, you know, working
9:57
Speaker 3: with my hands, and I thought it would be really
9:59
Speaker 3: nice to start to inspire the children's creativity firstly, but
10:03
Speaker 3: secondly teach them skills.
10:04
Speaker 2: And thirdly, we were broke, well we broke, we had
10:07
Speaker 2: no money, so homemade Christmas was basically we made stuff
10:12
Speaker 2: for each other.
10:12
Speaker 3: Yes, so they got one on one time with me
10:14
Speaker 3: because we sat down. We talked about the secret sister
10:17
Speaker 3: name that they'd pulled out of the hat and what
10:19
Speaker 3: they might like for Christmas. And one of my favorite gifts.
10:23
Speaker 3: I've actually just been going through some of the kids
10:25
Speaker 3: keepsakes and found it the other day. Ella, she was
10:28
Speaker 3: probably about maybe eight when we did this Christmas. She
10:34
Speaker 3: made up a poem that became a story. It was
10:38
Speaker 3: a little story about it's time to get up, it's
10:40
Speaker 3: time to get up, it's time to get up, it's
10:42
Speaker 3: time to get up for school today, or something like
10:44
Speaker 3: that was a little rime that she made. And so
10:46
Speaker 3: she actually stepped her little sister.
10:48
Speaker 4: Who was starting school is the next month.
10:50
Speaker 3: That's right, who's going to start school, stepped her through
10:53
Speaker 3: the routine of what she needed to do in the
10:56
Speaker 3: morning to get ready for school. And she then you
11:00
Speaker 3: to her little sister and took photos of the two
11:03
Speaker 3: of them doing those things like brushing her teeth.
11:06
Speaker 2: They got dressed up in their school uniforms and took
11:08
Speaker 2: the photos and put it all together as an album
11:10
Speaker 2: with the poem to guide her sister through the morning
11:14
Speaker 2: for when she started a big school.
11:15
Speaker 3: And it was such a beautiful gift. Like I said,
11:19
Speaker 3: I just pulled it out the other day and I
11:20
Speaker 3: couldn't help smiling because it was just it was such
11:23
Speaker 3: a simple thing, and yet it's something that they'll be
11:25
Speaker 3: able to look back on for years.
11:27
Speaker 2: So basically that Christmas there was no materialism because we
11:29
Speaker 2: weren't spending any money. It was actually what I'm building
11:32
Speaker 2: for you, what I'm making for you, what I'm creating,
11:34
Speaker 2: and it was so good, like you said, relationally and creatively.
11:37
Speaker 2: So that's the first idea, Just don't try to keep
11:40
Speaker 2: up with people. Go your own way, do your own thing.
11:43
Speaker 2: Second thing, what I love about you, Kylie, is you
11:45
Speaker 2: love to shop. I do love That's actually not what
11:48
Speaker 2: I love about you. But the reason you love to
11:50
Speaker 2: shop is because you're a savvy shopper and so all
11:52
Speaker 2: year long, you know that at the end of the year,
11:55
Speaker 2: we're probably going to do, you know, something to wear,
11:56
Speaker 2: something to read, something they want, something they need, and
11:59
Speaker 2: so as the year on, you're actually looking out for
12:01
Speaker 2: opportunities to snag bargains, which means when we get to Christmas,
12:05
Speaker 2: we've already got most of the stuff.
12:06
Speaker 4: That we need.
12:07
Speaker 2: We've paid peanuts for it because you've got it on
12:10
Speaker 2: special throughout the year. And that's our second idea for
12:13
Speaker 2: removing the materialism. Just let the kids know this is
12:16
Speaker 2: how we do Christmas.
12:17
Speaker 4: That's the way it's going to be.
12:20
Speaker 2: The third thing is a really simple one as well,
12:21
Speaker 2: and I don't think it requires a lot of time
12:23
Speaker 2: and focus. Just don't make it a big deal. Don't
12:26
Speaker 2: carry on about how much expensive stuff we're doing, or
12:29
Speaker 2: how we're doing this, or I paid this much for that,
12:30
Speaker 2: or this was the really big gift this year. I
12:33
Speaker 2: just don't make it a big deal. Sometimes kids get
12:36
Speaker 2: big stuff, sometimes they don't.
12:38
Speaker 3: And I guess that's what I love about what we
12:40
Speaker 3: do with the four gifts. You know, it's just there's
12:43
Speaker 3: no price tag attached to it. Everybody gets four gifts,
12:46
Speaker 3: and because it all fits into those different themes each
12:50
Speaker 3: the children are just happy with the four gifts that
12:53
Speaker 3: they get. They're not comparing with the other person, what book.
12:56
Speaker 4: Did you get? Because of books and book.
12:58
Speaker 3: You know, and clothing just excited to get a few
13:01
Speaker 3: new outfits. So I really like the fact that, you know,
13:05
Speaker 3: because of the way we've set things up for our kids,
13:07
Speaker 3: it's not a big deal.
13:09
Speaker 2: So the last two ideas that we've got, let's go
13:11
Speaker 2: through these fairly briefly, but they are I think the
13:13
Speaker 2: two most important ones. I'm going to combine them. Number four,
13:18
Speaker 2: just change the focus. I reckon, there's a couple of
13:21
Speaker 2: things that you were talking to me about before that
13:23
Speaker 2: are worth highlighting here.
13:25
Speaker 3: So two things that we've done which I have absolutely
13:28
Speaker 3: loved and have completely changed the way we did Christmas.
13:30
Speaker 3: That year, we went on our very first international family holiday.
13:35
Speaker 4: We've never been.
13:36
Speaker 3: On an international family holidays.
13:38
Speaker 4: It was like four years ago.
13:39
Speaker 2: And let me give you some context here because this
13:41
Speaker 2: is important. We decided that we were going to take
13:43
Speaker 2: the family away for Christmas, but we also wanted it
13:46
Speaker 2: to be not just about the family and not just
13:49
Speaker 2: you know, indulgent, but we wanted it to be for
13:52
Speaker 2: a good cause. And so at a charity auction, I
13:55
Speaker 2: bought a holiday to Bali at that charity auction, which
13:59
Speaker 2: meant that the money that I was paying for the
14:00
Speaker 2: holiday was actually being donated to a charity rather than
14:03
Speaker 2: just paying for a holiday. It kind of it felt
14:07
Speaker 2: good to spend money on a holiday for us and
14:09
Speaker 2: that we were helping people, so that was a really
14:11
Speaker 2: cool thing.
14:11
Speaker 3: We probably wouldn't have had a holiday if it wasn't
14:13
Speaker 3: for the auction, because it's not money that we would
14:16
Speaker 3: have normally spent on ourselves like that, but because of
14:21
Speaker 3: the focus, it allowed us the opportunity to benefit as well,
14:24
Speaker 3: which was so much fun.
14:26
Speaker 2: A really quick story about that as well. When I
14:27
Speaker 2: was bidding, I was actually goofing off. I didn't really
14:29
Speaker 2: intend to buy the holiday, and somebody else put up
14:32
Speaker 2: their hand at the same time that I bid, and
14:34
Speaker 2: the auctioneer said, you've got it, and you've got it,
14:36
Speaker 2: and then he pointed to someone else whose hand was
14:37
Speaker 2: going up and sad, and you've got it too, and
14:38
Speaker 2: he sold all three of them.
14:40
Speaker 3: He did.
14:41
Speaker 2: There was only one on offer, but he actually said
14:43
Speaker 2: all three of you, and you've all paid that much money.
14:45
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh no, because I didn't really
14:47
Speaker 2: mean to buy it. But anyway, we donated and we won.
14:50
Speaker 2: We won, We won a holiday. At an auction that
14:53
Speaker 2: we paid for and we helped other people out, which
14:56
Speaker 2: was great.
14:56
Speaker 3: Well, what was awesome about that was that it was
14:59
Speaker 3: a holiday for ten people we only have eight people
15:02
Speaker 3: in our family. That we only have eight people, and
15:05
Speaker 3: we got to take my mum and dad who'd never
15:06
Speaker 3: been overseas before, which was super super fun, and they
15:10
Speaker 3: got to experience things that they'd never experienced. But the
15:13
Speaker 3: thing that was actually super special about this was by
15:15
Speaker 3: the time we went to actually book the holiday, the
15:18
Speaker 3: only time we could do this was literally over Christmas
15:22
Speaker 3: Day and Boxing Day.
15:24
Speaker 2: Yes, so none of this was actually meant to happen
15:26
Speaker 2: like this, but it's just how it all worked out.
15:28
Speaker 2: So we were away for Christmas on this holiday that
15:30
Speaker 2: I didn't mean to buy, but it was for a
15:32
Speaker 2: charity and it was for a good cause, and it
15:33
Speaker 2: all worked out really nicely.
15:35
Speaker 3: Because of that, we didn't have presents that year. We
15:37
Speaker 3: literally that year was just about experiencing another place in
15:41
Speaker 3: the world together as a family, and our focus was
15:45
Speaker 3: just family time and it today is a highlight.
15:48
Speaker 2: So that changes the focus completely. The final way to
15:52
Speaker 2: move away from materialism with the kids.
15:55
Speaker 3: I think you have to be an example it has
15:57
Speaker 3: to start with you.
15:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, if you're all about the presence, and if
16:00
Speaker 2: you're all about what you get what you get, if
16:03
Speaker 2: you're all about filling up underneath the tree and making
16:06
Speaker 2: it a huge deal, then it's probably going to happen
16:09
Speaker 2: that the kids are going to follow your lead. In
16:12
Speaker 2: my webinar how to Unspoil the Kids for Christmas, I
16:15
Speaker 2: talked about how there are three levels to Christmas. The
16:17
Speaker 2: first one is the Santa clause, Ho Ho Ho, Merry Christmas.
16:20
Speaker 2: That's the too much food and too many presents, and
16:23
Speaker 2: you can have an awesome Christmas when you do that,
16:24
Speaker 2: like there's nothing the matter with Level one Christmas. Level
16:27
Speaker 2: two Christmas is where you've got the Christmas carols and
16:30
Speaker 2: you maybe put an activity scene up and you do
16:33
Speaker 2: some of the stuff that a lot of people will say, well,
16:35
Speaker 2: this is the true meaning of Christmas, and you focus
16:37
Speaker 2: on the traditional Christmas things that we do. It's probably
16:41
Speaker 2: going a little bit deeper with you know, having some
16:43
Speaker 2: time with family and really focusing on family time.
16:46
Speaker 4: And then there's the level three Christmas.
16:47
Speaker 2: Now for those who've got a faith tradition, then that's
16:50
Speaker 2: going to be a really heavy emphasis on faith.
16:52
Speaker 4: But for those who.
16:53
Speaker 2: Don't, you can still really go to a level three
16:56
Speaker 2: Christmas by focusing on generosity and service and sacrifice and
17:02
Speaker 2: not thinking about yourself but thinking about other people at
17:04
Speaker 2: a time where there's a lot of really vulnerable people,
17:07
Speaker 2: people who are really challenged, and I think that's what
17:09
Speaker 2: we're really talking about. Here be an example by shifting
17:12
Speaker 2: the focus away from self towards others.
17:16
Speaker 3: I love it makes me happy well.
17:18
Speaker 4: I love talking about Christmas.
17:19
Speaker 2: Christmas is the most wonderful time of the year, and
17:22
Speaker 2: I love being.
17:23
Speaker 4: Able to do it on the podcast.
17:24
Speaker 2: If you've enjoyed the podcast, we would so very much
17:27
Speaker 2: appreciate you taking a minute or two, maybe over the
17:29
Speaker 2: Christmas break, when you've got a minute or two, jumping
17:32
Speaker 2: into Apple Podcasts and leaving a rating and review, letting
17:34
Speaker 2: people know how you're enjoying it and why it means
17:37
Speaker 2: so much to us, and it helps other people to
17:39
Speaker 2: find the show and make their families happier. We appreciate
17:42
Speaker 2: Justin Rulin from Bridge Media for producing the podcast, and
17:45
Speaker 2: our executive producer as always is Craig Bruce.
17:47
Speaker 4: If you'd like more
17:48
Speaker 2: Info about making your family happy, you can fight it
17:50
Speaker 2: all at happy Families dot com dot au.