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Confessions from My Manager · Pursuit of Sassiness

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey guys, welcome back to the Pursuit of sassiness. So
0:09
Speaker 1: today I'm joined by my manager, my friend, and my
0:13
Speaker 1: unlicensed therapist, Ben Gaynor.
0:16
Speaker 2: Welcome Ben, Thanks for having me.
0:18
Speaker 3: Michelle.
0:19
Speaker 1: I'm so excited that you're here today.
0:21
Speaker 3: I'm excited too. I'm a podcast listener. This is my
0:24
Speaker 3: first podcast guest experience. So amazing, so excited. Nobody had
0:28
Speaker 3: rather do it with than you.
0:30
Speaker 1: I know, we talk every single day, and I never
0:33
Speaker 1: knew that we were going to be this close.
0:35
Speaker 2: And this is how it works working with a manager.
0:38
Speaker 3: I didn't know that at all. I have a lot
0:39
Speaker 3: of clients in different relationships with all of them, and
0:43
Speaker 3: you've really turned into not just a great client to
0:45
Speaker 3: work with, but really one of my good friends.
0:47
Speaker 1: Yeah. I agree too, So tell us. Do you remember
0:50
Speaker 1: how we first met?
0:52
Speaker 3: Yes, my business manager, John mccoley, awesome guy and mentor
0:57
Speaker 3: in a lot of ways to me, met Jesse at
0:59
Speaker 3: the gym and sent me an email and said I
1:02
Speaker 3: met Sky. Him and his wife have been cast on
1:04
Speaker 3: a new vander Pump series. Are you interested in having
1:07
Speaker 3: a meeting? And funny enough, I was literally watching vander
1:10
Speaker 3: Pump when that message came in I got very into
1:14
Speaker 3: reality TV in the last three or four years and
1:17
Speaker 3: pivoted my business to manage more reality TV stars like you. Yeah,
1:23
Speaker 3: and it was perfect timing, So I was really excited.
1:26
Speaker 3: I was excited to hear more about the show and
1:28
Speaker 3: excited to meet both you and Jesse.
1:30
Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember you walking in and we didn't really talk.
1:35
Speaker 3: I think I was at your house for like two,
1:38
Speaker 3: maybe even three hours. Yeah, we probably spent five minutes
1:41
Speaker 3: together that day. If if that you were with Isabella,
1:46
Speaker 3: we might have had a drink together, and that's about it.
1:49
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:50
Speaker 3: But I had a good meeting with Jesse. We talked
1:52
Speaker 3: for two hours. Was very interested in working with you guys.
1:56
Speaker 3: And I came back for a follow up meeting about
1:58
Speaker 3: a week or so later, and I met Jesse outside.
2:01
Speaker 3: We walked to the chateau and I didn't even see
2:03
Speaker 3: you for that meeting. Yeah, And then Jesse called me
2:06
Speaker 3: a couple days later told me that you guys were
2:08
Speaker 3: gonna sign with me, and I was very excited, but
2:10
Speaker 3: I still hadn't really gotten to meet you or gotten
2:13
Speaker 3: to know you or anything. And that continued for the
2:17
Speaker 3: first couple months of us working together. I had most
2:20
Speaker 3: of my dialogue through Jesse. He would keep me updated
2:24
Speaker 3: and have conversations with you, I assumed behind closed doors.
2:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, in season one, I remember him always calling you
2:30
Speaker 1: and you would text me like, if you need anything
2:33
Speaker 1: or have any questions, please reach out, And I actually
2:36
Speaker 1: never did.
2:37
Speaker 2: In the beginning, I.
2:38
Speaker 3: Would spend hours on the phone with Jesse. We would
2:41
Speaker 3: talk for five ten minutes about the show, and then
2:43
Speaker 3: next thing I knew, we were on talking about golf
2:46
Speaker 3: for talking about literally anything. So I was getting more
2:50
Speaker 3: and more I don't want to say confused, but I
2:53
Speaker 3: was getting more like I don't know Michelle and she's
2:56
Speaker 3: about to go on this show, and I don't know
2:58
Speaker 3: who she is, what she's about, her life, her backstory,
3:02
Speaker 3: her goals and dreams. After season one had wrapped, Jesse
3:06
Speaker 3: called me one day and told me that you guys
3:09
Speaker 3: were separating, and I'm not gonna lie like it kind
3:13
Speaker 3: of made sense just based off my dynamic with you
3:15
Speaker 3: guys and seeing you guys like it did kind of
3:18
Speaker 3: make sense. But in the moment, I was even more
3:23
Speaker 3: confused because I was unsure of if Michelle was going
3:27
Speaker 3: to still want me to represent her. I had what
3:29
Speaker 3: I thought was a great relationship with Jesse at the time,
3:33
Speaker 3: and I just wasn't sure if Michelle was going to
3:35
Speaker 3: feel comfortable moving forward with me, if she was interested,
3:37
Speaker 3: if she even liked me. It was really that day
3:40
Speaker 3: that our friendship and business relationship grew and took form.
3:45
Speaker 3: From that moment, having an individual dialogue with Michelle, one
3:49
Speaker 3: that didn't run through her soon to be ex husband,
3:53
Speaker 3: allowed me to learn about her and learn about things
3:56
Speaker 3: that I was not going to see on the season,
3:58
Speaker 3: that I was not going to see from an hour
4:01
Speaker 3: long meeting, but really starting to get to know Michelle
4:04
Speaker 3: and what makes Michelle Michelle well.
4:07
Speaker 1: I just felt like I didn't really have a voice
4:09
Speaker 1: for a very long time, and it was really whatever
4:13
Speaker 1: Jesse wanted.
4:14
Speaker 3: It's how it was, and at the time I didn't.
4:17
Speaker 3: That wasn't my thought process at the time. But in
4:20
Speaker 3: retrospect that makes a ton of sense. Even after signing
4:24
Speaker 3: with me, we started to take lawyer meetings ahead of
4:27
Speaker 3: your TV show, and those ran through Jesse as well,
4:32
Speaker 3: so all that made sense. I did not think anything
4:35
Speaker 3: of it in the moment, but as I learned more
4:37
Speaker 3: and more about you guys, as our relationship grew, it
4:41
Speaker 3: made more and more sense.
4:43
Speaker 2: So were you excited?
4:44
Speaker 1: How did you feel knowing that you were now going
4:48
Speaker 1: to represent two reality stars who were no longer together.
4:53
Speaker 3: Well, let's go a little bit backwards, because when I
4:56
Speaker 3: first met you, guys, I was really excited to be
4:59
Speaker 3: meeting people at the beginning of their journey. You didn't
5:01
Speaker 3: have eight years on vander Pump like some of your
5:05
Speaker 3: cast members did, and this was a new playbook for you.
5:08
Speaker 3: This was a new way to promote your business, to
5:11
Speaker 3: promote yourselves, and to be yourself on TV. So I
5:15
Speaker 3: was really excited to be in early ground floor. The
5:19
Speaker 3: show hadn't even started production yet, but I saw the
5:25
Speaker 3: reality TV personality in Jesse. I saw the big personality,
5:30
Speaker 3: the way he dresses, and it made sense for reality TV.
5:34
Speaker 3: What made me so interested in you was how unreality
5:37
Speaker 3: TV you were and how little you knew. You didn't
5:40
Speaker 3: know anybody's names outside of your friend group. You didn't
5:43
Speaker 3: know the shows, you didn't know the networks, and I
5:46
Speaker 3: thought that was going to be very interesting on the Valley.
5:49
Speaker 3: The Valley has a cast of people that have been
5:51
Speaker 3: on reality TV before. In seeing how you were going
5:54
Speaker 3: to fit in to a group of friends that you're
5:56
Speaker 3: organically friends with, but in a world with these cam
6:00
Speaker 3: that you have never experienced. I was very interested to
6:03
Speaker 3: see what that was like for you, and.
6:05
Speaker 1: I've mentioned that in the past, like I truly have
6:08
Speaker 1: never watched any sort of reality.
6:11
Speaker 3: Team underplay it like when we talk and stuff like
6:15
Speaker 3: you underplay how little reality TV you watched prior to
6:18
Speaker 3: the show. That's I think a really interesting thing. But
6:22
Speaker 3: you really had no basis, no housewives, no outside of
6:25
Speaker 3: what Dancing with the Stars.
6:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a little bit of million dollar listing a
6:29
Speaker 1: decade ago.
6:31
Speaker 3: You didn't know any of these people. So that was
6:33
Speaker 3: really fun for me and different because that's not always
6:36
Speaker 3: the case when somebody's looking for a manager in reality TV.
6:39
Speaker 3: Oftentimes they've known the players been on a TV show,
6:43
Speaker 3: And that wasn't you.
6:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't understand the process. I didn't understand how
6:50
Speaker 1: you know, how much you film, how much it's cut.
6:53
Speaker 3: Like, you didn't understand how ruthless it can be at times.
6:57
Speaker 3: And it's fun and it's awesome for us viewers to watch,
7:00
Speaker 3: but for you guys who are actually putting your life
7:02
Speaker 3: out there, it's ruthless. Sometimes it's very ruthless. I mean
7:07
Speaker 3: I just don't think you understood that going into it necessarily,
7:10
Speaker 3: and that was also in some ways what made you
7:13
Speaker 3: so interesting. But a Bravo show is not an easy
7:17
Speaker 3: show to step into right away, especially with people that
7:20
Speaker 3: know the games and know the producers and know how
7:23
Speaker 3: these things take shape.
7:24
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and I was definitely naive about it. I
7:27
Speaker 1: mean I didn't go into it, you know, having a
7:30
Speaker 1: script in my head of how I was going to
7:32
Speaker 1: act and how it is going to be, because I
7:34
Speaker 1: know other people who are like that, and I just
7:37
Speaker 1: went into it like completely.
7:40
Speaker 3: Ediz Douse, Yes, And from my position, that makes it
7:46
Speaker 3: very interesting to watch you season one, you know, just
7:49
Speaker 3: like you. I read the comments as well, and I
7:52
Speaker 3: know that people said you were a robotic and stuff,
7:55
Speaker 3: and at the time I didn't really understand that because
7:57
Speaker 3: I know Michelle and I know how big your personality
8:00
Speaker 3: is and how funny you are. But then I rewatched
8:03
Speaker 3: season one and I did get what people were saying.
8:08
Speaker 3: And as I took a step back and realized, I
8:10
Speaker 3: realized that you were truly going through so much in
8:16
Speaker 3: your personal life and your professional life, and some people
8:21
Speaker 3: internalize things. And I watch you, and I watch you
8:24
Speaker 3: now as somebody that was internalizing more than I even imagined.
8:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, I kept everything to myself and I didn't like imagine,
8:33
Speaker 1: you're just you have whatever job. I'm a real estate agent.
8:36
Speaker 1: The only thing I knew is to show houses and
8:40
Speaker 1: to sell houses. And I go from that to all
8:42
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I have cameras on me, and I
8:45
Speaker 1: just have to be myself and have all of these storylines.
8:51
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And when you watch Million Dollar Listening, and I
8:54
Speaker 3: know that that was an inspiration to you moving to
8:56
Speaker 3: Los Angeles in the first place, and how you got
8:58
Speaker 3: your career start as a real estate agent. But I
9:01
Speaker 3: could see you operating on a show like Million Dollar
9:04
Speaker 3: Listing in a way different way when you're talking about houses,
9:07
Speaker 3: when you're showing houses. I saw you when we were
9:09
Speaker 3: filming Selling Sunset, like you're in your element. And I
9:13
Speaker 3: know heading into the show, you thought that there was
9:16
Speaker 3: going to be a little more of your element, a
9:17
Speaker 3: little real estate. And it's hard to film your personal life.
9:22
Speaker 3: You're behind closed doors life, the stuff that nobody really
9:25
Speaker 3: is ever supposed to see. It's that much harder when
9:28
Speaker 3: you're contemplating and deciding whether or not you're going to
9:30
Speaker 3: stay in that marriage, and I don't think you realized
9:33
Speaker 3: how difficult it was going to be to have cameras
9:35
Speaker 3: in your house while you didn't even know if you
9:37
Speaker 3: wanted to stay in that house.
9:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one of the hardest things I think anyone
9:42
Speaker 1: can do. I mean, how many people are willing to
9:45
Speaker 1: do something like that to show the world that you
9:48
Speaker 1: are unclear if you're going to stay in a marriage
9:50
Speaker 1: or not.
9:51
Speaker 3: Knowing everything you know now and where your marriage headed
9:56
Speaker 3: and where you're still in that process and everything. Would
9:58
Speaker 3: you have signed up to do it?
9:59
Speaker 1: Still?
10:00
Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't.
10:02
Speaker 3: Do you regret signing up to do it in the
10:04
Speaker 3: first place?
10:06
Speaker 1: A part of me does yes, because I never got
10:09
Speaker 1: to tell my story and people didn't understand where I
10:13
Speaker 1: was coming from, and people don't know me. You know,
10:16
Speaker 1: Jackson Brittany, they've seen their relationship before they got married,
10:21
Speaker 1: so they have a very clear understanding or more understand like,
10:25
Speaker 1: what their dynamic and their relationship was like.
10:28
Speaker 3: And the Internet, not to mention, the Internet also has
10:32
Speaker 3: a better understanding of who Jacks and Brittany are because
10:36
Speaker 3: they've seen them for six years. So when they're jumping
10:38
Speaker 3: to conclusions in the comment thread, they at least have
10:43
Speaker 3: a little bit more information.
10:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have some sort of background. I was with
10:47
Speaker 1: Jesse ever since twenty fifteen. Nobody has any background of
10:52
Speaker 1: what my relationship was like during marriage. Nobody got to
10:57
Speaker 1: see that. So when you don't see something and you
10:59
Speaker 1: don't know something, and you just see the end of
11:01
Speaker 1: my marriage, like of course, you just think I'm this robotic,
11:05
Speaker 1: quiet person because I was very unhappy.
11:09
Speaker 3: And on a reality show that films you in the moment,
11:13
Speaker 3: there's no way to go back in time, and there's
11:15
Speaker 3: no way to tell the good, the bad, and the
11:17
Speaker 3: ugly from your first six years together or your first
11:21
Speaker 3: seven years together. They can only on a reality TV
11:25
Speaker 3: show enter in in the moment, and the moment in
11:27
Speaker 3: which they entered was a really difficult moment for anybody,
11:31
Speaker 3: let alone somebody who had no idea what these cameras
11:34
Speaker 3: and what these microphones were going to pick up. I agree,
11:38
Speaker 3: now you know, And that's also like part of this
11:42
Speaker 3: experience and journey. And although nobody gets to see that
11:46
Speaker 3: backstory and nobody gets to see those first six years,
11:49
Speaker 3: everybody gets to see these next years and where you
11:51
Speaker 3: are currently, And that's partially what's so exciting for me
11:54
Speaker 3: is season one is such a small glimpse of time.
11:58
Speaker 3: We're now on season two. We're gonna move on and
12:01
Speaker 3: keep going, hopefully, and people will get to see where
12:04
Speaker 3: this story goes. Right now, it's there's no conclusion. We
12:07
Speaker 3: don't know what's next for you. We don't know what's
12:09
Speaker 3: next for you in business, in your relationships with Isabella, everything.
12:14
Speaker 3: But that's what's so fun is we get to not
12:16
Speaker 3: watch it.
12:17
Speaker 1: And I'm excited too about that part about the new adventure,
12:21
Speaker 1: the new chapter in my life. And I do feel
12:23
Speaker 1: more comfortable and I'm learning, and I do have a
12:27
Speaker 1: lot of close friends that are on the show, so
12:30
Speaker 1: that part I do like.
12:32
Speaker 3: So far from the season, do you think what you're
12:34
Speaker 3: seeing in yourself is more representative of who you are?
12:37
Speaker 3: Do you feel like you still wish that you found
12:39
Speaker 3: more of your voice this season.
12:42
Speaker 2: I think it's both.
12:43
Speaker 1: I definitely am more open and try to be myself,
12:48
Speaker 1: but for some reason, it's just who I am. Like
12:52
Speaker 1: sometimes you know, I rewatch it. I'm rewatching it now
12:56
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I should have opened up more and
12:58
Speaker 1: I should have said something, and I'm like, in my
13:00
Speaker 1: mind because I am private, and I don't just like
13:04
Speaker 1: blurt everything out, and I take things into consideration.
13:07
Speaker 3: But you do replay things in your head a lot,
13:10
Speaker 3: and you replay conversations and wish maybe, oh, if I
13:13
Speaker 3: could have done that again, I would have done it differently. Absolutely,
13:16
Speaker 3: But do you feel so far this season who you're
13:18
Speaker 3: seeing is a good representation of where you are in
13:21
Speaker 3: your life right now?
13:22
Speaker 2: I think so. Yeah.
13:24
Speaker 1: The only thing is I had an apartment and I
13:27
Speaker 1: didn't realize that I wasn't allowed to film at my apartment,
13:31
Speaker 1: so you don't really get to see the dynamic of
13:33
Speaker 1: me as a mother and I have Isabella fifty percent
13:37
Speaker 1: of the time, and.
13:37
Speaker 3: That apartment was just you and Isabella.
13:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was just.
13:40
Speaker 1: Her and I for a year, So that entire second
13:42
Speaker 1: season I was not allowed to film with her. So
13:45
Speaker 1: that's why you get to see a lot of Jesse
13:47
Speaker 1: and Isabella filming at his home, but you don't get
13:50
Speaker 1: to see us unfortunately.
13:52
Speaker 3: That makes sense. But now you live with Aaron, right.
13:54
Speaker 2: Yes, we just moved in together.
13:57
Speaker 1: I wanted to live on my own for a year
14:00
Speaker 1: and so I did, and it was just you know,
14:02
Speaker 1: Aaron lives nearby as well, and it just made sense,
14:06
Speaker 1: and we're very you know, we have a very strong relationship,
14:09
Speaker 1: so and actually Isabella wanted to move in, so it
14:12
Speaker 1: was just like a group decision, and therefore I moved
14:16
Speaker 1: in about two months ago.
14:18
Speaker 3: That's awesome for me. This really is a representation from
14:28
Speaker 3: where you are in your life because I see you
14:30
Speaker 3: in moments and I've seen a few scenes of you
14:33
Speaker 3: so happy when you're with Aaron. You guys really just
14:36
Speaker 3: bounce off of each other. And I also see the
14:39
Speaker 3: negative sides of where you are, where you're still going
14:41
Speaker 3: through your divorce process. That is not an easy divorce
14:44
Speaker 3: process at all. And although you can be happy with five, six, seven,
14:48
Speaker 3: twenty five things that are going on your life, there
14:51
Speaker 3: are still things that are difficult. There are still things
14:53
Speaker 3: that are weighing on you. And I think this roller
14:56
Speaker 3: coaster of Michelle is really just accurate to what I
14:59
Speaker 3: see in your personal life. That you have good days,
15:01
Speaker 3: you have bad days, there are things you're so excited about,
15:04
Speaker 3: and there are things that you're still struggling through.
15:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I love the whole Arin dynamic. I
15:10
Speaker 1: really wanted to show everybody that I moved on and
15:14
Speaker 1: that I am very happy and I have a healthy relationship,
15:18
Speaker 1: and you know I love them, So why not show
15:20
Speaker 1: my life When.
15:21
Speaker 3: I'm with you and Erin? I can feel and see
15:25
Speaker 3: all of that, like you don't even have to say it,
15:28
Speaker 3: like you know, it's just it's a parent And that
15:31
Speaker 3: just kind of brings me back to when I first
15:33
Speaker 3: met you. Guys, you never told me that you were unhappy.
15:37
Speaker 3: You never told me what you were contemplating. But seeing
15:40
Speaker 3: these two different versions of you really does show me
15:42
Speaker 3: what you were dealing with in your marriage because you
15:45
Speaker 3: were so different. And now I see what you're like
15:47
Speaker 3: when you're happy, and it's two different people.
15:51
Speaker 1: Oh, it's really crazy to think that. It's like you're
15:54
Speaker 1: one person, but you're completely different. Depending on who you're with,
15:59
Speaker 1: they can bring you down or they can lift you up.
16:02
Speaker 3: And that can also change over time that someone who
16:05
Speaker 3: at one point brought you up can start to be
16:08
Speaker 3: the person who brings you down. And as unfortunate as
16:11
Speaker 3: that is, I think you're not the only one on
16:13
Speaker 3: your cast that is learning that.
16:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you clearly know everything that's happening in my
16:19
Speaker 1: life every day.
16:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, we talk a lot, talk.
16:22
Speaker 2: We text.
16:23
Speaker 1: You know, my day to day basis, what is it
16:26
Speaker 1: like to actually watch it on TV?
16:29
Speaker 2: The way it's played.
16:30
Speaker 3: Out, It's very difficult to watch sometimes because Michelle is
16:35
Speaker 3: my friend, and any reality TV show, there's going to
16:39
Speaker 3: be accusations, there's going to be things said that are
16:41
Speaker 3: not easy to hear. But I want Michelle to start
16:45
Speaker 3: to know that you're more than just the show as well,
16:48
Speaker 3: and people in the comments, like, they will make snap
16:51
Speaker 3: judgments about you based off things that they hear on
16:53
Speaker 3: a TV show that are true, that are untrue, And
16:57
Speaker 3: I just want you to become more comfortable with knowing
16:59
Speaker 3: that you can be more than just what people see
17:02
Speaker 3: on a TV show, and what they see doesn't have
17:05
Speaker 3: to make you feel like they're not seeing the full Michelle.
17:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's something that I'm navigating as well, because.
17:11
Speaker 3: Of course I'm you're getting better.
17:15
Speaker 1: I see some of the comments, like, it's very hard
17:18
Speaker 1: to have strangers comment on my life and not know
17:22
Speaker 1: the full story.
17:22
Speaker 3: You just have to remember, and this is hard to do.
17:25
Speaker 3: You have to remember that they're strangers and that you
17:28
Speaker 3: know in your heart who you are, and your friends
17:31
Speaker 3: and your people and your daughter and your family know
17:35
Speaker 3: who you are. And unfortunately we can't control what happens
17:39
Speaker 3: on the TV show and how it's perceived in social
17:42
Speaker 3: media and stuff. But I know the real Michelle. You
17:44
Speaker 3: know the real Michelle, and I want you just to
17:46
Speaker 3: always keep that in mind.
17:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I do feel that way, And I just
17:50
Speaker 1: surround myself with people who love me and are great inspirations.
17:55
Speaker 3: And by seasons three, four or five, you'll stop reading
17:57
Speaker 3: the comments.
17:59
Speaker 1: I don't know if that'll happen. And how do you
18:02
Speaker 1: like working with reality TV people?
18:05
Speaker 3: Reality TV is kind of my favorite type of talent
18:08
Speaker 3: to represent. I really just feel like because they get
18:11
Speaker 3: to be themselves and show themselves on TV, you can
18:14
Speaker 3: really highlight things that make these people so interesting, and
18:18
Speaker 3: not just talents that they have in being able to
18:20
Speaker 3: play a character, but really finding what makes somebody interesting
18:24
Speaker 3: and why we'd want to watch them on TV in
18:26
Speaker 3: the first place. It can also be really hard to
18:28
Speaker 3: manage people on reality TV because it is their real life,
18:32
Speaker 3: and sometimes good TV and their real life they don't
18:36
Speaker 3: always add up. Sometimes negative things happen in people's personal
18:40
Speaker 3: lives that lead to good TV, so there is a
18:42
Speaker 3: constant balancing act that goes on between wanting to help
18:48
Speaker 3: the client make sure the TV show is continuing to
18:51
Speaker 3: be a success, while also wanting to protect the client
18:54
Speaker 3: from being portrayed in a certain way on that TV show.
18:58
Speaker 2: That must be a really hard job.
19:00
Speaker 1: I can only imagine, like the amount of work you
19:02
Speaker 1: do for just me, and you have to do that
19:04
Speaker 1: with multiple clients.
19:06
Speaker 3: It can be hard, but it can also be like
19:09
Speaker 3: so much fun, Like they're with you like this podcast,
19:13
Speaker 3: getting to work with you on this podcast, getting to
19:15
Speaker 3: work with you on season one of the Valley, season two,
19:18
Speaker 3: like those things are really really fun. When you're going
19:22
Speaker 3: through a divorce and that's on TV, it can also
19:25
Speaker 3: be a lot because I know how much a divorce
19:29
Speaker 3: would weigh on you if you weren't on a TV show,
19:31
Speaker 3: and then reliving things, seeing things, having other people put
19:37
Speaker 3: their opinions into it. I've never been married, and I've
19:41
Speaker 3: never been divorced, but I can only imagine how difficult
19:43
Speaker 3: that is. So when I find myself in a position
19:47
Speaker 3: like this, it does become it does become a lot
19:50
Speaker 3: of work in a really fun and interesting way, but
19:54
Speaker 3: in a way that's not always fun for the client.
19:56
Speaker 3: So there's a balancing act between the TV show, personal
20:00
Speaker 3: lives and remembering that both things need to be successful
20:03
Speaker 3: for the whole thing to work.
20:05
Speaker 1: So I have an interesting question, what was it like
20:08
Speaker 1: for you to work with Jesse and I once we split?
20:13
Speaker 3: That might have been the hardest thing I've ever done
20:16
Speaker 3: at work. That was a very difficult situation. And you know,
20:21
Speaker 3: I think we've all seen on TV show you guys
20:23
Speaker 3: don't see eye to eye on a lot of the
20:25
Speaker 3: things that happened. And being in the middle of two
20:29
Speaker 3: people that was really difficult. Wanting to protect all of
20:33
Speaker 3: my clients, but hearing things and seeing things and making
20:37
Speaker 3: my own opinion along the way, it becomes very convoluted
20:41
Speaker 3: and confusing. Yeah, I now only represent you, and I'm
20:46
Speaker 3: really happy to be continuing to represent you. Ever since
20:50
Speaker 3: I feel like we had that conversation, I started to
20:52
Speaker 3: get to know you. You've been one of my favorite clients
20:55
Speaker 3: to work with. A lot of people told me this
20:58
Speaker 3: when you guys were getting separated in the first place.
21:00
Speaker 3: A lot of my business friends and colleagues said, really
21:02
Speaker 3: hard to represent two people getting a divorce. Good luck.
21:06
Speaker 3: I wouldn't do it.
21:07
Speaker 2: If I were you, I would I would say the
21:10
Speaker 2: same thing.
21:10
Speaker 3: Yep. And now after living it. They were all right,
21:13
Speaker 3: every single one of them was right. Yeah, in a
21:15
Speaker 3: divorce where two people don't see eye to I, there's
21:17
Speaker 3: going to be conflict.
21:18
Speaker 1: Now.
21:18
Speaker 3: As your manager and friend, I can't always protect both people.
21:23
Speaker 1: And I appreciate that because I thought that, but I
21:26
Speaker 1: didn't want to force anybody into any decision. So I
21:29
Speaker 1: just continued to work with you, and I loved how
21:32
Speaker 1: professional you were. I knew that you know, you weren't
21:35
Speaker 1: telling me anything about Jesse, so you had the.
21:38
Speaker 3: Same Yeah, of course, not like everything. And that's what
21:41
Speaker 3: starts to become so hard is and as I had
21:43
Speaker 3: separate relationships with both of you guys, and as my
21:45
Speaker 3: relationship with you was growing, it became harder and harder
21:48
Speaker 3: to have conversations on the other side that were not
21:52
Speaker 3: always positive towards you. So it just became harder for
21:56
Speaker 3: me to do. As I became better friends with you,
21:59
Speaker 3: as we had more and more projects that we were
22:01
Speaker 3: working on together, it just became a really tough situation
22:06
Speaker 3: that long term was not going to be able to
22:08
Speaker 3: work out.
22:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I'm glad we're working together, and I feel
22:12
Speaker 1: like there's so much that we're eye to eye on.
22:15
Speaker 1: We want so much more in the future to oh
22:17
Speaker 1: you doing.
22:18
Speaker 3: I have so many, so many, so many, like just
22:21
Speaker 3: dreams and ideas for you. You're so reserved. When you
22:25
Speaker 3: scream and get mad, it like catches everybody by surprise.
22:29
Speaker 3: I want to see you like in a horror movie
22:31
Speaker 3: or something. I want to see you screaming your head
22:33
Speaker 3: off or getting your head ripped off or something. I
22:36
Speaker 3: think that'd be so funny for you, because you're so internal.
22:40
Speaker 3: I want to see that like external movement that I
22:42
Speaker 3: never even thought of that. I think it would be
22:45
Speaker 3: so funny me.
22:46
Speaker 2: In a scary movie, you a.
22:47
Speaker 3: Horror movie, you in a frantic like SVU scene like.
22:51
Speaker 3: I just think that would be so such a funny
22:53
Speaker 3: side of you.
22:54
Speaker 2: I actually love that idea.
22:55
Speaker 1: Let's yeah, definitely add that to the list.
22:58
Speaker 2: So, if you could choose.
22:59
Speaker 1: One moment from the show to be replayed for the
23:02
Speaker 1: world to see, which would it be.
23:05
Speaker 3: I think I would have to go with multiple scenes,
23:09
Speaker 3: the scenes of you and Scott your life coach. I
23:12
Speaker 3: think before people knew that you guys were separated, I
23:17
Speaker 3: don't think they played as emotionally and as heartbreaking honestly
23:21
Speaker 3: as they do to me now. I think a lot
23:24
Speaker 3: of people have talked about in the comments that you
23:27
Speaker 3: made this decision lightly and that you moved really quickly
23:31
Speaker 3: and you gave up on your marriage. And I think
23:34
Speaker 3: that in those scenes with Scott, we got to see
23:38
Speaker 3: somebody who was deciding, somebody who was torn, somebody who
23:41
Speaker 3: was hurt. I think you mentioned to him once that
23:44
Speaker 3: you hadn't been sexually attracted in a very long time,
23:48
Speaker 3: and just hearing that, I know that happens to couples
23:52
Speaker 3: of all ages, couples that have been together for three years,
23:55
Speaker 3: couples that have been together for thirty years, but hearing
23:57
Speaker 3: that just is heartbreaking because I can't imagine what it
24:00
Speaker 3: would be like to be in a marriage and to
24:04
Speaker 3: not be attractive, to not feel those feelings, and that
24:07
Speaker 3: just must be like insanely difficult to deal with. And
24:10
Speaker 3: I think that the Scott scenes show a raw and
24:14
Speaker 3: emotional version of you that we rarely saw in season one.
24:19
Speaker 1: Well, that was one of the hardest scenes I had
24:21
Speaker 1: to do for myself. I was literally I remember like
24:26
Speaker 1: holding my breath and trying not to like shake and
24:29
Speaker 1: not cry.
24:30
Speaker 3: Well, it's a really tough conversation to have, very hard
24:35
Speaker 3: and then you add cameras and people that you don't
24:38
Speaker 3: know who are watching it happen, and it's a very
24:41
Speaker 3: real conversation that you needed to have, but doing it
24:45
Speaker 3: on camera is scary and difficult.
24:48
Speaker 1: It was very scary, It was very hard, and so
24:51
Speaker 1: I was holding my tears and that was a big
24:54
Speaker 1: moment for me to express out loud, because it's like, yes, obviously.
24:59
Speaker 2: I'm married him.
25:00
Speaker 1: I think he was a handsome person, but it's not
25:04
Speaker 1: about physical looks, because a lot of people actually tell
25:07
Speaker 1: me that, like, oh he's so handsome or he looks
25:09
Speaker 1: better or whatever, and that's not the case. It's about
25:13
Speaker 1: love and it's about respect and how somebody treats you.
25:17
Speaker 1: And when somebody is constantly diminishing you, belittling you, just
25:23
Speaker 1: not caring about you, and then just like completely stops
25:27
Speaker 1: with giving compliments any sort of affection, then that takes
25:32
Speaker 1: a toll on you as a wife.
25:34
Speaker 3: Like absolutely, And you know, it's back to this conversation
25:38
Speaker 3: we've had about showing the world your real life. Nobody
25:43
Speaker 3: really has to explain to the outside world why they're
25:46
Speaker 3: attracted to somebody, why they're not attracted to somebody, and
25:52
Speaker 3: putting that on TV and conveying that and then having
25:54
Speaker 3: people weigh in on why aren't you feeling a certain way?
25:58
Speaker 3: Must be really difficult because you, as a strong, independent woman,
26:05
Speaker 3: can decide who you're attracted to and for what reasons
26:08
Speaker 3: and what attracts you.
26:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's only so much that a man or
26:11
Speaker 1: a woman can take when somebody constantly just doesn't want
26:15
Speaker 1: to show you any emotion day after day, when that
26:18
Speaker 1: is the only person you're supposed to be physical with,
26:21
Speaker 1: it takes a toll on yourself and your mental well
26:25
Speaker 1: being because it's like the person that I married and
26:28
Speaker 1: that I love doesn't want to give me a hug
26:30
Speaker 1: or a kiss, or give me a compliment or you know,
26:34
Speaker 1: sleep with me.
26:34
Speaker 3: Be sure, it made you play things in your head
26:37
Speaker 3: what you aren't doing correctly, and I don't know, correct
26:42
Speaker 3: me if I'm wrong, But that could make a woman
26:45
Speaker 3: question their body, question their looks, and that's just a
26:48
Speaker 3: really unfair position for you to be in.
26:50
Speaker 2: Yeah.
26:51
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And that's why I think me and Brittany can
26:55
Speaker 1: relate in a lot of ways because we were married
26:59
Speaker 1: to men that treated us a certain way, and we
27:05
Speaker 1: we were by their side for a long long time.
27:09
Speaker 1: Even after being treated that way.
27:13
Speaker 3: But for you, a lot of this stuff is happening
27:15
Speaker 3: behind closed doors, and I know that makes it very
27:18
Speaker 3: difficult for you. I don't know if you'd want it
27:21
Speaker 3: the other way. I don't know if you would want
27:23
Speaker 3: everything so public and some of these things, I think,
27:26
Speaker 3: Oh no, I don't.
27:27
Speaker 1: And I feel bad that Brittany has to go through
27:31
Speaker 1: something like that. It's already hard as it is, and
27:33
Speaker 1: I can't imagine like what she's going through is even
27:37
Speaker 1: though I can relate, Like I know, it's that much harder.
27:41
Speaker 3: It's hard to find a silver lining in a divorce
27:44
Speaker 3: and stuff. But is there a little silver lining of
27:48
Speaker 3: having somebody who's been so supportive to you and somebody
27:52
Speaker 3: who you've been so supportive to Is it a little
27:55
Speaker 3: comforting knowing that you're not the only one going through
27:57
Speaker 3: something like this. You don't have to feel like you're alone,
28:02
Speaker 3: and that a good friend of yours also does somewhat understand.
28:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's what I love about Brittany. It's like,
28:07
Speaker 1: sometimes I don't have to explain a situation. She already
28:11
Speaker 1: knows and she gets it. All I have to say
28:13
Speaker 1: is a sentence, and she's like ugh, and so of course,
28:16
Speaker 1: like there is another layer of bond between us because
28:21
Speaker 1: we are going through something very difficult.
28:23
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to compare whatsoever.
28:26
Speaker 1: I know people think that I was trying to compare.
28:31
Speaker 1: What I was trying to say is that Jesse is.
28:36
Speaker 2: Very out there and he does.
28:39
Speaker 1: Pretend to be a certain way, So it's hard for
28:42
Speaker 1: people to really truly know who he is and what
28:45
Speaker 1: happened between closed doors.
28:47
Speaker 3: A lot of the things that you say, there's no
28:50
Speaker 3: way of showing that, there's no way of proving that, sure,
28:53
Speaker 3: you said it happened. I can believe you. That doesn't
28:56
Speaker 3: mean that the whole outside world is going to say
28:58
Speaker 3: that's how it happened. So we're all always going to
29:00
Speaker 3: be dealing with that, and I just think that it's
29:03
Speaker 3: letting go of You don't need everybody to agree with you.
29:06
Speaker 3: I just always want you to carry that with you
29:08
Speaker 3: and know that you don't have to convince everybody you
29:10
Speaker 3: know the truth in your heart.
29:12
Speaker 2: I do know the truth.
29:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, we all do.
29:15
Speaker 1: That was a glimpse of what my marriage was like.
29:20
Speaker 3: Like it's normal for two parents to have different opinions.
29:23
Speaker 3: What I didn't feel was as normal was how the
29:26
Speaker 3: dynamic and conversation went once you guys had different opinions.
29:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were never on the same page.
29:32
Speaker 1: He was just very aggressive and Barry didn't have the patience.
29:36
Speaker 3: It just seemed it seemed to me like when you
29:39
Speaker 3: guys would have a disagreement, someone was just going to
29:43
Speaker 3: end up making a concession, probably you. But it never
29:47
Speaker 3: seemed like there was a dialogue or discussion about why
29:50
Speaker 3: you wanted to do something differently or why he wanted
29:53
Speaker 3: to do something differently. And I think that that goes
29:57
Speaker 3: a long way in showing where you guys were in
29:59
Speaker 3: your marriage. If you're not going to be able to
30:01
Speaker 3: have a conversation about how to teach Isabella how to
30:03
Speaker 3: ride a bike, you're not gonna be able to have
30:06
Speaker 3: conversations about all the other things you need to to
30:09
Speaker 3: continue to be married together.
30:16
Speaker 1: What do you think my biggest growth moment has been
30:19
Speaker 1: since starting The Valley, You've.
30:22
Speaker 3: Had a million because you were so green. It was
30:25
Speaker 3: like everything was a milestone for you at the beginning,
30:27
Speaker 3: first episode and first time joining a podcast of somebody else's.
30:34
Speaker 3: I really do think it's this podcast for you because
30:37
Speaker 3: it's so unlike anything that you would have thought you
30:40
Speaker 3: were ever gonna do. You are a shy and reserved person,
30:44
Speaker 3: and being on reality TV is already different enough for
30:47
Speaker 3: you to come and sit down in front of a
30:50
Speaker 3: microphone and really bear your life and bear what's going
30:54
Speaker 3: on in your new relationship, what happened in your old relationship.
30:58
Speaker 3: I think that was a huge step for you. I'm
31:00
Speaker 3: proud of you for taking that step. And we're so
31:02
Speaker 3: early on in this podcast, and I just think that
31:04
Speaker 3: you're going to continue to grow and grow and.
31:06
Speaker 2: Grow every day.
31:08
Speaker 1: I'm doing something uncomfortable, and I say that because it's true,
31:12
Speaker 1: Like this is what my fifth podcast, and it's still
31:17
Speaker 1: not natural for me, and it's a lot of you're starting.
31:19
Speaker 3: So much more natural. I mean seriously, I listen to
31:23
Speaker 3: them and I was here when you recorded your first episode,
31:27
Speaker 3: and hearing the most recent one, it's it's just been
31:31
Speaker 3: four or five episodes, but you're already so different, Like
31:33
Speaker 3: I can't imagine what you're going to be like in
31:34
Speaker 3: a year.
31:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited.
31:36
Speaker 1: I'm just really hard on me, on myself as a person,
31:39
Speaker 1: I think, and I'm learning that.
31:41
Speaker 3: That's something that I've learned about you. You're a perfectionist,
31:46
Speaker 3: Like you really put a ton of pressure on yourself
31:49
Speaker 3: in terms of real estate, the reality TV stuff you
31:53
Speaker 3: want to do outside of it in the entertainment world,
31:55
Speaker 3: and I love that, Like you are a true go
31:58
Speaker 3: getter and hearing and learning. I didn't know that you
32:00
Speaker 3: reached out to Ryan directly to get your job there,
32:03
Speaker 3: Like that totally made sense because that's the type of
32:06
Speaker 3: person you are. I know, you're in the DMS talking
32:10
Speaker 3: to people whose podcasts you'd love to be on, brands
32:14
Speaker 3: that you'd love to work at, and I think that's
32:15
Speaker 3: so refreshing to work with somebody that is out there
32:19
Speaker 3: trying to hustle for themselves and not just wait for
32:21
Speaker 3: somebody to hand them something.
32:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just something I've always done in part of
32:25
Speaker 1: who I am. If I'm going to do something, I'm
32:28
Speaker 1: going to do it all out. And I always have
32:31
Speaker 1: bigger and bigger dreams that I want to accomplish. Yeah.
32:34
Speaker 2: No, to me, this is just the beginning.
32:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know it's sometimes like sometimes I have to
32:39
Speaker 3: tell you, right, let's slow it down a little bit.
32:42
Speaker 3: We're not there yet. But I love it, Like you're
32:45
Speaker 3: not going to get anywhere in anything without swinging for
32:49
Speaker 3: the fences sometimes and the fact that you're willing to
32:52
Speaker 3: take that leap of faith sometimes. I know a million
32:54
Speaker 3: people who would have considered this reality show and ultimately
32:59
Speaker 3: decided not to do it, or considered having a podcast
33:02
Speaker 3: and ultimately deciding not to do it. I actually thought
33:06
Speaker 3: that you might have been one of those people that
33:07
Speaker 3: ultimately decided not to do the podcast. But I'm so
33:11
Speaker 3: glad you did, and I'm so glad that you were
33:14
Speaker 3: sharing more and more each week. And I think people
33:18
Speaker 3: are gonna be surprised. There's gonna be a lot of
33:20
Speaker 3: stuff they learn in the next few weeks that I
33:22
Speaker 3: don't think everybody's expecting. I'm excited for people to continue
33:25
Speaker 3: on this journey, just like I'm gonna be.
33:27
Speaker 2: Yeah.
33:27
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't wait for everybody to continue watching.
33:31
Speaker 1: And so I just asked you about what you saw
33:34
Speaker 1: on my biggest growth was, But what about my biggest
33:38
Speaker 1: weakness or frustration.
33:42
Speaker 3: I don't want to call this a weakness, because I
33:45
Speaker 3: think it's very natural for anybody, But I do think
33:49
Speaker 3: that something that I would love to work through is
33:53
Speaker 3: not being so concerned about what blogs and fan pages
33:59
Speaker 3: and Bravo meme pages, not being so sensitive or not
34:04
Speaker 3: worrying as much about what they say. At the end
34:07
Speaker 3: of the day. Any TV show, any reality TV show,
34:11
Speaker 3: you want people talking about it. Sometimes they say good things,
34:14
Speaker 3: sometimes they say bad things. But I do want you
34:16
Speaker 3: to just remember that it's a TV show and you
34:21
Speaker 3: don't always have to win. No, you don't always have
34:23
Speaker 3: to I get it.
34:24
Speaker 1: I just get frustrated. I'm like, that's not the truth,
34:27
Speaker 1: that's not how it went.
34:29
Speaker 3: And eventually we're gonna let go and we're just gonna
34:31
Speaker 3: know that that's okay.
34:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you again for.
34:35
Speaker 3: Coming on, thank you for having me.
34:37
Speaker 1: I have so much to do because I have to
34:40
Speaker 1: get ready for the reunion tomorrow.
34:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, we need to go talk about that. We need
34:44
Speaker 3: to go. We need to go. Let's go have lunch.
34:46
Speaker 2: Yeah I know.
34:47
Speaker 1: But I'm going to be as vulnerable and as honest
34:52
Speaker 1: and open as possible, and I just hope that everybody
34:56
Speaker 1: appreciates that.
34:58
Speaker 3: I think they will. That's all you can do. Be yourself,
35:02
Speaker 3: tell the truth, and the rest will fall into place.
35:05
Speaker 2: Okay, let's go have lunch.