Latest / Arroe Collins Like It's Live / Brilliant Summer Read The Model Patient From Lucy Ashe

Transcript

Brilliant Summer Read The Model Patient From Lucy Ashe · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I've created this podcast network Arrow dot net A r
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: r oe dot net. It's not just one podcast, it's
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: twenty different daily podcasts. And the reason why is because
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: when I get in the car or get to the office,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: I want to hear a podcast that fits into my mood.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I don't want to go where they are. It's my
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: world a little selfish, right, Well, that's why I'm giving
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: you twenty different podcasts to choose from Arrow dot net
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: A r r oe dot net. And while you're at it,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: go check out forest Stories. Do you really know what's
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: going on inside your city, parks, Force and other places
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: of basically discovery? Forest Stories only on arrow dot net.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Enjoy that exploration. Hi, person with a great radio name,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: But you're not in radio, but I'll accept it that
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: you're an author. Oh my god, look, I mean seriously,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Lucy ash is such a great radio name. Oh my god,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: it's so Hollywood.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: We got to talk about your book because your book
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: is an eye opener and it's one of those that's
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: going to create questions and people are going to You're
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: creating activation, is what you're doing. And I don't know
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: if that was your intention, but people are going to
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: be reading this and they're going to be looking at
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the world differently because of what you're sharing inside these pages.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: That's great to hear. I mean, I suppose when I
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: was writing this novel, The Model Patient, I was writing
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: it from a very personal place. It was inspired by
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: my own very intense, very bewildering experience in therapy. But
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: it certainly made me sort of think about therapy in
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: ways that I never imagined, never imagined before, and sort
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: of how we might go about finding those hidden parts
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: of ourselves and how challenging that can be.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Well, it says that, you know, I had to do
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: some chat GPT in on this because I wanted to,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: and it's just because because I'm too lazy to type
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: stuff anymore. But the thing is is that I want
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: wanted to understand it more. And the thing that chat
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: GPT said was that it's not one sided and I
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: and that opened up my heart and I said, I
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: can't wait to talk with Lucy because she's going to
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: understand what chat GPT was saying. When it says it's
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: not one sided, where are they going with this?
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: So, well, yeah, what do I think they're going with that?
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: So when you're in therapy. It's about a relationship between
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: two people, the patient client and the therapist. And in
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: kind of a really good working relationship, working alliance you're
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: using the dynamics that will come up, the relationship patterns
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: and emotions that will come up. Is sort of like
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: a way of exploring what's driving you and what has
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: happened in your past. Then is repeating itself, like we
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: all have this compulsion to repeat. But the problem that
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I found and that I write about in the Model
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Patient is that the patient is very vulnerable in this
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: because of this thing called transference, where you end up
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: transferring these past relationship patterns and emotions onto the therapist.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: That gives them a position of great power, and they
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: have to be very thoughtful about the way in which
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: they employ that power so that the patient can cope
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: with all of this, all of these intense emotions, rather
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: than get sort of dragged deeper and deeper into delusion.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: In the Model Patient, that is what happens. Even in Westbrook.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: This main character, she goes to therapy hoping for help,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: but actually becomes deeply dependent and obsessed with her therapist,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: and he just takes her further and further into those
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: obsessions rather than helping her separate out fantasy and reality.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Evylyn dives into that big time because first
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: of all, look what city she's in. So therefore she's
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: going to have to deal with that fantasy and reality
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: because when you go to London, you know, that's fantasy
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: in everybody's heart. And the fact that oh my god,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: everything changes for her so quickly.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes it does. And actually this was something that
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: I guess I was really interested in because when I
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: had been in this sort of intense therapy relationship, I
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: had a very very fast transference response to my therapist.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: And when I suppose just he's very he's very withholding,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: kind of silent and give gives not much back in
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: the sense, you know, I'd be sort of exploring all
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: these things about myself and then hip be silent. You know,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: the session would end as very abruptly and be like,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: what is going on here? How can I deal with
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: all of these emotions? And that can lead to a
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: very quick kind of transference essentially, and that's what happens
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: to Evelyn, and she doesn't know how to manage that,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: and it sort of starts this spiral of events in
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: her life where everything is focused in on her therapy,
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: but also her husband wants to have a baby. She's
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: terrified of this. Her mother in law is making things
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: difficult for her. She's just given up a career. In
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: some ways, you want to go to therapy at a
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: time when you've got lots of things you want to
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: support with, But actually, really I imagine that the best time
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: to go to therapy was is when you're kind of
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: calm and there aren't too many changes in your life,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: because it would allow you to really go into depth
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: about some of the relationship haassens and emotions that you
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: have without it all falling apart.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: It's got such a connection to the reality of where
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: we are now. And what I loved about it was
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: that it really does give permission to women go talk
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: with somebody. It's okay to bring mental health up. Because
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: my mother, I wish she would have had it, but
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: that wasn't her generation. They internalized every single thing, and
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: I often wonder if my mother's life what would have
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: been even smoother than what it was if she would
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: have had some mental help. And that's what I love
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: about this book. But you also say go get the help,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: but be aware. And that's what I love about this
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: is that that's the reality pinch is that you say,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: but there's something on the other side that you need
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: to know. Well, they could take advantage of a situation here.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, you know, it's not as simple of
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: just going to therapy and hoping that everything is going
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: to fall back into place. The relationship dynamic for the
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: therapist is so important. But actually the even even though
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: she has this very traumatic experience with the therapist, she
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: does end up learning so much about herself as a
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: result and making so much of progress in her life
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: as a result. It's just it had to be for her.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: It was through this almost like retraumatization. And that is
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: I think what we don't hear about enough when we're
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: going into therapy is there is a risk that you're
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: not just going to find therapy difficult in challenging. Of course,
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: therapy is supposed to be difficult and challenging, like otherwise
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: what's the point. But it could actually re traumatize you.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: It could make the things that you you know have
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: create almost like physical trauma responses to the work you're doing.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: And that is a risk, and I think it's important
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: that people know about that and can sort of guard
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: themselves against that and sort of check what kind of
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: therapy they're actually doing. I didn't know what type of
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: therapy I was do until it was until it was
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: too late, really, and then I was like, Okay, well,
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: now I've just got to find a way to manage this.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: And I wrote the model patient of the way to
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: help contain all of the chaos of my relationship in therapy.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Very interesting. That sounds like a Julia Cameron is. I
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: mean the way that she says, go in there and
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: clean out that closet so that you can create more
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: room for other things to take place. And so you
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: use an experience in order to kind of wake us
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: up or warm us up. On this side of those pages.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean my own personal experience, I suppose was
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: the way of inspiring the idea for the novel. And actually,
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: while I was writing the novel, I was doing the therapy,
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: and I'd have this kind of crazy document of like
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: journaling that was just my emotions and my responses to
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: the work, and that was really it was just a
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: sort of almost out of control writing. And then I
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: had this craft did carefully research novel the model patient
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: that I was building, and I think having those two
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: side by side with such an interesting creative project for
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: me to have both the emotion and also the creativity.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Well, you break it up in a way to where
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: we can we can see the different sides of decisions
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: being made, and there's there's I would love to see
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: the research on how many readers are going to be
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: able to look at Evelyn and see not only themselves,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: but kind of model their own life into something that
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Evelyn would have done, or if she would have made
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: this choice instead. And so so it's almost like a
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: mile marker in the middle of this wandering highway with
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: a bunch of mirages. But then here comes Evelyn who's
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: experiencing it, and all of a sudden, our focus is
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: right there on that story.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I hope we really travel. I hope the reader
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: really travels through this with Evelyn. She's she's not always
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: the easiest character to really warm to at different moments,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: but I think that's because she's holding so much rage
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: and on sort of she's trying to contain herself when
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: actually she really just needs to sort of let go
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: and allow herself to feel all of the traumas from
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: her past. But I hope, yeah, I hope the reader
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: will will feel part of her journey as they go.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Father and stuff, Please do not move. There's more with
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Lucy ash coming up next, the name of the book
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: The Model Patient. We are back with author Lucy ash Well.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: And we all have psychotherapist or psychologist's stories. I mean
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: mine was I went in to talk with one. We
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: got in what he described or even prescribed period was
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: totally different from where I was going. He looks at
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: me one day and he says, you're you're addicted to excitement.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Figure it out. And I was like going, And so
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: that I became a daily writer. And that's where I've
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: been now for thirty four years, a daily writer because
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: it's like, okay, you want me to figure it out.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: I ain't coming back then, but you do. You get
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: in those little arguments, and I think maybe maybe that's
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: my connection with Evelyn is because I want to fight
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: for I want to be able to get a voice
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: and say no, this is what i've been you know,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: don't do it. Yeah.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: I think there is this deep frustration at times in
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: therapy when you're trying to get the point across of
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: how you feel and you want your therapist to really
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: understand you, and they're saying something different, or they're not
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: on the same page as you, or they don't you
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: don't feel like they fully get it. And for me,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: and also for Evelyn, it was the silences. It was
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: these silences, so I were like, what does it mean?
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: And my therapist will always say things like you think
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: that just because I'm silent, it doesn't mean I'm not thinking,
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: or it doesn't mean I don't care for you, and
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: I would, I would, It would drive me absolutely nuts.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: I'd be like, I'm not here to just sit in silence.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: I want to do the work. And actually, but of course,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: actually there was so much in that silence that was
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: important for me. It was that need, need for reassurance,
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: that desire to know if I was getting things right,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: if I was making a good impression, all of these
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: things it actually it's important to let go of. And
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: it was in the silence that those that the work
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: could be done. But I hated it, really hates.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: You ask a very important question that's going to be
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: an eye opener as well as a stick of glue
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: in the way of getting people to stay true to
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: the story who holds power in the therapeutic relationship? And
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: you sit there and go, oh, who does hold that power?
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I made the decision to go. Evelyn made the decision
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: to go. She obviously had questions and she needed to
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: explore it. But now who holds that power?
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah? That question? I mean, I think the power dynamics
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: are shifting. They're incredibly complex. Like, obviously the therapist does
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: hold the power because he has Yeah, I mean, he
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: knows exactly how the methodology works. He's able to understand,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: you know, he's had years of training, knows exactly what's
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: going on in terms of the methodology. But of course, yes,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: the patient also does have power. They have the power
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: to leave. So Evelyn and I actually felt that that
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: power had been taken away from me for a while
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: because of the pressure that was put on me to stay,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: even though I did try to quite a few times.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: But there's also you have the power to say whatever
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: you want. There's something very freeing about that, the power
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: to show specific parts of yourself while hiding others. Actually,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: the therapists can only work with what you reveal. And
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: it's such a complex relationship, and I think perhaps a
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: sign of a successful therapy is when the patient can
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: reclaim their power and they can stop being so intensely
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: focused on the reactions and the responses of the therapist
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: and become kind of confident to make their own decisions.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: But that can take quite a while, especially in this
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: the type of therapy that's in the model patient, which
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: is kind of psychoanalytical psychodynamic therapy, where it is about
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: the relationship dynamic that the work, where the work happens,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: and therapist has to be very aware of the power
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: they have because of the way in which the patient
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: will actually really place so much onto them and project
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: so much onto them and become very dependent on them.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: And that's it's a very delicate balance.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about that because I
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: would like to check the blood pressure of those readers
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: when we start talking about dependence and dependency and and
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: and because it becomes a blurry line. I want to
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: know how readers are going to pick up on that
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: and and keep focused to the story and not think
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: about their personal lives. I mean, they're going to be
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: divided and all of a sudden, they've got to get
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: back to the paragraphs to see how Evelyn is going
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: to handle this situation.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm so that's the beauty of it. I
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: hope that that there will be those connections to people's
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: personal experiences and actually talking talking to people about their
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: own therapy. So many people tell me about how how
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: much they hate the end of sessions, and this was
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: something to me that was very important that I wanted
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: to get across in the book, is that the end
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: of a therapy session is almost where the most important
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: work happens. Those final couple of minutes. How regulated you feel,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: do you feel like what emotions do you feel about
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: your therapist at the end? Do you want to stay
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: for longer? Do you feel like you're being abandoned? Do
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: you want to know who your therapist's and next patient is?
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: And the time ends, and then you've just had this
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: very intimate conversation and then it's done for the next week.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: And that is a very strange thing to get your
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: head around, to be so intimate and then to have
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: such strong boundaries put up at the end. That is
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: something that I think lots of people in therapyople will
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: relate to.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Well, Yeah, because I wanted to know how Evelyn was
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: going to react. When the therapy session was over and
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: you walk out that door, it's usually into a small room,
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: and there is usually somebody out there in the lobby
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: waiting because they're next, And we all face that that
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: was not one of my favorite places to be because
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: I wanted to know what secrets did I leave behind
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: in there? And did I sweep them all up so
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: that they don't feel them?
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, I mean that desire to not leave them behind,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: I think is a really interesting one because I think
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Evelyn really wants the therapist to have her emotions. She
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: wants him to contain them and hold them and hold her,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: like physically hold her and emotionally hold her, and the
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: thought that he's moving on to his next patient is
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: very painful for her.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah it is. It was That's what I felt.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's you know, that's something
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: that I just, very surprisingly I found coming into my
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: mind sometimes during my own therapyre like why am I
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: interested in in who his next patient's going to be?
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: And I actually I did manage to say this once.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: You're always such awkward things to tell your your therapist about,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: but I did manage to say, you know, I just
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: don't want you to have another patient after this, and
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: then at least, I know, what do you imagine this
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: this this patient is? And actually, interestingly I kind of thought, well,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: this is a nice opportunity to be a bit create,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: So I actually started sort of telling him about this
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: imaginary patient, and it helped me come up with the
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: character of Diana in the book, who is Evelin's best friend,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: who is a sort of counterpart to Evelin in some ways,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: I would say, a kind of calmer, more emotionally with
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: it kind of person who ends up actually having some
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: sort of relationship with this therapist. So I definitely used
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: some of the therapy sessions when I felt able to,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: as a kind of muse for my writing.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love where you are with this
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: story or is it going to You're going to create
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: a series of these books, because I mean, this is
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: the kind of stuff that people enjoy during the summer
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: months and they're out there in the sunshine. They want
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: a book that they're going to get seriously lost in
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: and then when they come back out, they're at least
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: going to be carrying a story with them.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well I hope. So, I mean my next one
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: is actually is also therapy themed, but it's set in
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies in New York City about a therapy
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: cult hides disturbing methods of control behind this facade of
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: like free love, sex and countercultural ideals. So that's where
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I'm working on next.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Well, let's book that interview right now then, so we
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: can talk about that when it comes out. Well, please
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: come back to this show anytime in the future. And
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: before you check out, please tell me where can we
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: go to find out more about you, Lucy. We want
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: to know about your writing, your experiences, because I believe
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: it's just like a rock star that readers want to
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: have that relationship with their authors.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Thank you. I have Instagram it's Lucy ash Underscoore author
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: and a website which is lucyash dot com. And I
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: love hearing from readers and I hope that people enjoy
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: the Model Patient. It's available today, publication today, so available
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: whatever books are sold.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Thank god, I love it. Please come back to this
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: show anytime in the future. The door is always going
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: to be open for you.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: You'd be brilliant today. Okay, okay, bye bye, Thank you.