Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Why Aren’t Things Getting Better in the World?

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Why Aren’t Things Getting Better in the World? · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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defending biblical Christianity, no topic, off limits.
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And now, here's your host, David Fierazzo.
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Hey guys, thanks for tuning in.
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What a week of great guests, and I've got another one today.
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Jay Seeger, he's a keynote speaker, managing director for the starting point project.
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An author of a book called Creation to Christ will show you that in a few minutes.
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There it is.
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He holds degrees in both physics and engineering technology.
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He's the president of Logos Research Associates, and he does many, many grand canyon trips
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talking about the biblical worldview and the creation account.
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And man, he's just been a friend for many years.
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Jay Seeger, welcome to World View Matters, good to see you brother.
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It's always an honor to be speaking with you.
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It's good to see you again.
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I can actually see you better like this.
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So, hey, well, let's start before we dive into some material.
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Let's start off with you've been really busy traveling a lot, doing a lot of grand canyon
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trips.
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The starting point project.com, if I didn't mention the website, but share what you've been
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up to lately.
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Sure.
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Just a little bit about the ministry, the starting point project, it's all about our
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starting point.
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Everyone starts somewhere, no matter who you are, whether it's atheist, Muslim, Buddhist,
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Christian, you've got to start somewhere, Christian start with the belief that God exists
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and the Bible is the inspired word of God.
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And then we use that foundation to define everything else, what actually science and logic
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are history, ethics, morality, philosophy, all those things are defined by our starting
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point.
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That's why we're the starting point project.
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And again, if you start in wrong place with your belief system, you're going to come
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to the wrong conclusions about a lot of things.
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So that's the premise for the name of the ministry, basically, travel around the country.
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Other countries that are spoken in nine other countries, defense for the Christian world
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view.
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And that includes giving grand canyon tours and we take people there not just to show them
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a big hole in the ground, but to talk about the authority God word.
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The whole thing can be trusted covered, a covering yes, there was a worldwide flood
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in the grand canyon.
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It's one of the best places on the planet to see evidence for that.
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So we did five tours this year, just got back from one of them also did five day television
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shoot at the grand canyon rim and on the river and a bunch of other places.
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So it's I think I have about 208 talks this year.
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So it's kept me busy.
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Wow.
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Well, we appreciate your time.
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If people want to maybe sign up for a future tour, they just go to your website, the starting
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point project.com.
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Here on the website, you can see events and then grand canyon tours and you'll see the
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details of the tours that we've had this year.
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We are in the process of selecting dates for next year.
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We are focusing on groups who have expressed interest in going.
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It's a lot easier for us when a group says we've got a bunch of people would like to go
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and if they don't fill the bus, which we can do 50, 254 people.
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If their group doesn't fill it, we can always add some people to it.
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So we'll be selecting dates, working with groups.
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So if anyone has a group of people that would like to go, it's very family friendly.
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It's not repelling and rock climbing and white water rafting falling out of the rafting
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soak.
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It's just walking on flat paved path on the rim and then the next day we're actually
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on the river, Colorado River, very smooth sailing on the rafts.
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We see antelope canyon, we see dinosaur tracks, it's a very action packed tour, very family
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friendly and very faith affirming.
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I do a lot of teaching on not just the flood, but how do we know that God exists?
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How do we know the Bible is the inspired word of God?
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How do you mentor your own children and grandchildren?
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How do you reach up to skeptics very graciously?
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We cover a lot of information, short period of time, generally, if there is day evening
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through Sunday afternoon.
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So it's not just a trip just to see the vast canyon.
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This is actually biblical teachings and you're encouraging and strengthening people in
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the word of God, which I love about you.
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And you really get back to, you reach any audience, people that have been mature believers
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for years.
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And even the beginner, this or the skeptic, as you say, or young Christians, Jay, before
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we move on your book, Creation to Christ, where can people get that?
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Also available on our website, the starting point project dot com.
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It's a third book that I written.
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The first one was creation and evolution, compatible and conflict.
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I've been told by some of the world's eating scientists.
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I think that one's the best overview on creation and evolution.
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Second book was faith is not a four letter word.
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And then this, the third book, Creation to Christ, Old Testament and a nutshell, very
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briefly.
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A lot of Christians know fair amount about Jesus, his life, miracles, death and resurrection
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and his return.
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And then they know, in addition, a few cool Old Testament stories, Daniel and Lines,
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and Noah and the flood.
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But they don't know all those things in the Old Testament fit together.
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They don't know if Moses and Abraham were next to our neighbors.
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Did they work at Chick-fil-A together, just stuff happen, a lot of violence, strange dietary
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laws.
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And then you just kind of want to get away from that and get the New Testament really quickly.
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So that book puts together the Old Testament.
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It's one continuous story that sets the backdrop for everything in the New Testament.
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It's not that hard to understand.
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So I go through every major character, every major event, put it on the timeline, tell
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you what was happening just in a few pages.
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And then there's 150 pages of appendices answering the tough questions.
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Did people really love to be 900 plus years?
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What about all the violence in the Old Testament, strange dietary laws?
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Where does the ice age fit in, dinosaurs, all those types of things, they're in the back
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to give you additional information, but it won't slow you down, get in the big picture.
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Well, I just want to share a verse that's very important applicable to what you were just
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talking about, a lot of the New Testament points to the Old Testament prophecy and quotes
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and citations.
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And I think of a verse in Romans 15, verse 4 that says, for whatever was written in earlier
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times was written for our instruction, so that through perseverance and the encouragement
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of the Scriptures, we might have hope, Romans 15 4.
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So the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation is the Word of God.
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We're talking with Jay Seeger at the startingpointproject.com.
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Before we get into some bullet points that you sent me and thank you, I think this is going
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to be a really good introductory show with you as a guest talking about creation in the
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biblical worldview.
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A lot of people believe somehow that the world is just getting better and better.
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Things are improving, like evolution, aren't they supposed to get better?
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But all week long, we've been talking with pastors and other people about what's happening
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in Israel and the Middle East and the wars and just the destruction that's happening
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and the evil and the heart of man.
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So things don't look like they're getting better, but I guess a lot of people have that
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starting point.
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Tell us about that.
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Well, things should be getting better because we have all the coexist bump stickers and
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people's cards and that's all you have to do in it.
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It's nice, it'd be nice if we could all just quote, get along, but when one group wants
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to wipe out another group that's kind of hard to have great fellowship with them.
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So it might sound good on a bumper sticker, but it doesn't really work and people are
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wise enough to know things are not getting better and better.
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They're getting worse and worse.
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In fact, I mean, the general trend has been slowly downhill morally.
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We have more and more problems.
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We're used to that and we kind of got used to it.
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Like it's just part of life, but a few years ago, it seems like the wheels fell off.
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Everything went upside down.
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It's just we're living in a crazy world.
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It's gone astronomical as far as how bad things are getting.
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And then more recently with the war starting in Israel, things are heating up there.
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We are not in this random universe that came from an accidental big bang with no purpose
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or direction forward and eventually it'll end in some kind of a heat death or another big
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bang.
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There's a lot of evidence that there is a reason we're here.
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There's a purpose for the universe.
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There's a purpose for our life, but the only way you would know what's really going
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on to understand these events right now is if we somehow had a message from the one
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who created it all has a plan for not only the beginning, but also for the end.
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We could read that message and it would make sense of what we're seeing around us.
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And that's what the Bible claims to be now.
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I could write a book tonight making all those claims saying, I'm the one who created
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everything.
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I'm the one who gave this purpose, it'd be easy to write, but it would be really hard
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to verify and show evidence for unlike the Bible, which gives us many, many ways of testing
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it to verify.
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It is what it claims to be.
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The inspired word of God, the author of the universe, the author of the beginning and
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the end.
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Let's talk about that for a minute.
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I mean, yeah, we could write something and there's no evidence.
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We couldn't prove it.
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The Bible is full of fulfilled prophecy.
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Who else can tell the future and predict the future and then it happens.
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That's what God does throughout the Bible and prophets and what about eyewitness testimonies
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of Jesus and the resurrection?
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What about archeological finds?
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Every time they dig up something, it seems, Jay Seigert in the Middle Eastern or elsewhere
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from hundreds or thousands of years ago, it seems like the faith of an atheist just
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kind of gets discouraged because now there's another thing that backs up the Bible.
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Share a little bit about that before we move on.
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Sure.
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Well, typically a skeptic might say there's no evidence that God wrote the Bible.
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And I always have an initial question for them.
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I try to talk to everyone very graciously, try to get to know them.
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What is it that they believe?
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How do they come to that conclusion?
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Why are they confident?
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Those things are actually accurate.
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Get to know the person and then you're better positioned to know how to respond in a gracious
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manner.
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So when they make the claim, there's no evidence that God wrote the Bible before I launch
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into some tirade or argue with them, which I don't do.
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But even before thinking about anything like that, I ask a follow-up question because they
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just made a very bold truth claim.
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And they need to recognize those to then ask follow-up questions.
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So they said, there's no evidence that God wrote the Bible.
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So then I just ask them, what would you accept as evidence that God wrote the Bible?
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What would that look like in your mind if you saw A, B, or C?
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That would definitely be evidence that God wrote that.
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And I've had the skeptic say, well, I don't know, but I know there's no evidence.
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I said, wait a minute, if by your own admission, you don't even know what the evidence would
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look like, how do you know it doesn't exist?
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In fact, if you don't have criteria that you use a judge what counsel what doesn't, we
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really can't even have this conversation.
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So you want to do that very graciously, but you're just pointing out they made a bold
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claim with virtually nothing to back it up.
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No, you could flip the table and say, okay, well, what would the Christians say?
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What is the Christians response when we claim the Bible is the inspired word of God?
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Well, you can look at it very logically if God actually wrote a book.
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And forget about the Bible for one second.
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Let's just say God wrote a book.
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There's some book out there that God wrote, how would we know?
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Well, I would expect at least four things to be true about that book if it was authored
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by God.
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I'd expected to be internally consistent, meaning if it contradicts itself, I'd say it's
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pretty good evidence, God didn't write that.
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Secondly, I'd expected to be historically accurate, but gets history wrong.
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Good evidence, God didn't write that.
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Thirdly, I'd expected to be prophetically accurate, as you mentioned.
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If it makes predictions about the future and they've been proven false, it's pretty
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strong evidence.
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God didn't author that.
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And lastly, I would expect it to be scientifically accurate.
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If it makes statements that can actually be tested directly by science, it's been proven
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false.
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And we can see that.
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I'd say it's pretty good evidence.
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God didn't write that because he would know science.
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And when you apply those four tests, those are not Bible tests.
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Those are tests you could apply against any religious writing out there.
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When you use those tests, all the other books fall by the wayside, but the Bible passes
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them all with flying colors.
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That's a great summation, Jay.
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Thank you.
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I really appreciate how you put that together.
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And you are an apologist that doesn't mean you're sorry for anything.
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That means you are defending the claims of the Bible, the Christian faith.
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And we all need to be able to give an answer to someone who might see our lives.
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Hopefully, friends, you're living a good Christian life in accordance with the Bible and
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people are watching your life, right?
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And they're seeing some light.
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Well, that's the light of Christ.
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We are to be the light of the world.
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And they sometimes will ask you a question, well, how can you trust in God when the world
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is going crazy or some other question like that?
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And we need to be able to answer that, give a reason why.
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That's what Jay is talking about.
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Jay, we've got to take a break right now.
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But when we come back, I want to ask you a little bit more about this.
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But you referred to as a non-purposeful explosion that could have created everything.
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I have a friend who says, a Christian friend says, I believe in the big bang, it's just
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we've got to recognize the one who banged it, meaning God.
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I want to ask you if that's theologically sound and what your thoughts are on that.
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Jay Seagard is our guest.
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We'll be right back on World View Matters.
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Today's show is brought to you by Harbinger's Daily.
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Stay informed at Harbinger's Daily.com.
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So Jay Seagard, was it a purpose, non-purposeful explosion at the beginning of all time or
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was there, did God bang it like cause a big bang?
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Is that even a question we can ask as Biblical Christians knowing we have the creation
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account in Genesis?
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Sure.
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Well, again, context, we have to understand most of the people we talk to, whether they're
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skeptics or Christians, they've grown up in a public school system and they've learned
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the typical secular scenario of there was a big bang that started it all off.
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They guessed maybe 13.8 billion years ago, although recently they're struggling with
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the James Webb Telescope when they're seeing fully mature galaxies way out at the edge
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which should not be there.
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So some astronomers are saying, well, maybe we have to double the age of the universe
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as like, oops, you were just off by a factor of 100.
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So anyway, we've learned that there was a big bang and many religious people even Christians
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say, well, you know, that's a scientific thing.
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If they proven the big bang, you can't argue with that because science is black and white.
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It's one of the topics for a different show, but that's their perception.
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Science is black and white.
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They've proven the big bang and actually happened.
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So what does a Christian or religious person do?
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They just say, well, you know, it probably couldn't have just happened totally on its own.
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So I believe that that was God's process of originating the universe and the Bible.
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It's just a religious book to learn more about Jesus and good standards for living.
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You don't go to it for questions about like the origin of the universe.
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So I get that mindset, but when you spend any time with these people and ask them
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full of questions, they start to realize that maybe the solution that sounded so good
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on the surface doesn't really cut it and being extremely brief.
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You end up taking a very poor scientific idea, the big bang, and you squeeze it into the
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Bible.
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And now you really do have problems and errors in the Bible.
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Let's just start out talking why even if the big bang was true, it doesn't fit with
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the biblical text, which again, a lot of people say, oh, you can fit in there because
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Genesis was never meant to tell us those details.
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Well, when you study the actual words there, especially in Hebrew, it's literal historical
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narrative.
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So this actually happened.
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So the big bang posits that in one, when we speak here, the sun formed first, swirling
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gases, formed the sun, let's just round it off the five billion years ago, and gases
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kept swirling the nebular hypothesis and then those gases formed the planets.
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So the sun formed first and then the earth.
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What does Genesis say?
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Genesis says God created the earth on day one.
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He didn't create the sun until later on day four.
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So the order in Genesis would be wrong if the big bang is true.
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Secondly, the big bang posits the earth cooling down about 4.6 billion years ago from the
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molten state in this solid rock in land.
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And then over hundreds of millions of years, asteroids pelted the earth, bringing ice melting
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building up the oceans.
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So land first and then oceans and millions of years later, while the Bible says God created
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the earth covered with water on day one, he didn't let the dry land appear until later
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on day three, the order is wrong.
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And there's an entire list of the order that is wrong if the big bang is true.
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So either God didn't know what he's talking about or he lied.
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So that's not a good option.
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Many, many other examples why it doesn't fit in with scripture, but also scientifically,
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it's not a good scientific model for the origin of the universe.
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The only reason it's still around and cover of band aids and life support is they don't
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have anything to replace it with yet.
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As soon as they find something, it will go away so faster to make your head spin.
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But there are problems with, you know, how do you get something out of nothing, the expansion
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of the universe, getting light to spread out throughout the universe in the time that
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they have.
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So they invent something called inflation where it expanded faster than a speed of light,
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but now it's going too fast.
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So they have to slow it down again.
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Otherwise, you can't get stars, galaxies and planets.
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So there's a whole litany of scientific challenges to the big bang.
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So we don't want to be quick to jump on that and squeeze it in the Bible.
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We should start with God's word.
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What does it actually say?
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What are the words mean?
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What did it mean to those who was written to and then use that as a framework to judge
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whether or not the secular scientist are accurate.
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And we need to be patient with secular scientists to wait for them to catch up to scripture.
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I won't go into it now, but there are some things including the silly story that we've
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all come from one male and one female.
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They're leaning towards that now because of genetics.
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The fact that almost everyone was wiped out not long ago and we restarted, you know,
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populating the earth, they're leaning towards that because of genetics and on and on.
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They're starting to catch up with, yeah, maybe the Bible got it right after all.
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So there's so many questions I want to ask you right now, but we only have like eight
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minutes left.
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So DNA, for example, that's a code that is pretty specific.
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Talk about that for a moment.
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Fifty million things we could mention information isn't a physical thing that you can
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weigh.
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You took a thumb drive that was empty in another thumb drive and you filled it with Microsoft
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Office and other data, pictures and all that ways, they both weigh the same because information
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isn't this thing you can weigh in paint and bend.
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So where does information even come from?
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Every time we see information, we can always trace it back to an intelligence source every
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single time.
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We look at DNA, which has tons and tons of information on it.
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Why do we say, well, that just happened by particles banging together over time.
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And in the future, we can talk more and more detail about DNA, but DNA is probably the
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most complex information structure we know of in the universe.
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It has information that is written forwards, backwards, overlapping, spliced, embedded,
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encrypted 3D, and it goes on and on.
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There's no way, again, particles banging together over time could create an elaborate information
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system.
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Secondly, even if you somehow had that complex of a system, you cannot improve it over time
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by making random changes to it, which is what evolution is premised upon.
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They say these mutations, which are copying ears and the DNA over time, admit most of
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them are bad, but they say, once in a while, you got a good one, and the good ones accumulate
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sounds nice on the surface.
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It doesn't cut it when you actually look at the scientific details.
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So DNA, the structure, co-discovered Dr. Francis Crick, when he first saw it, he just figured
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well, it must have evolved later.
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He realized there's absolutely no way it evolved, but he was an atheist.
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Well, if it didn't evolve, it had to be designed and you're an atheist.
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What do you do?
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Well, there must have been alien somewhere out there, somewhere else in the universe.
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We can't see billions of years ago that he designed it in seed form and put it on
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space ships and flew it to Earth and it grew from there.
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So there's an example of a truly brilliant, seriously, brilliant scientist who's saying
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something that sounds kind of crazy, not because he's not smart.
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His starting point is off, and it forced him to go down a path that doesn't make any sense.
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Well, exactly.
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They've got this veil.
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They're blinded.
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I mean, some of the most intelligent and educated people in the world don't look at the
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Bible as truth.
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That's not their starting point.
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They start from somewhere else.
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They've got to come up with answers.
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They've got to come up with theories and they have, right, Jay, where you were just talking
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about that.
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So I like what you said about the DNA, I like what you said about the Big Bang and so many
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other things we could talk about.
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We're down to five minutes.
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Let's talk about this real quick.
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Where is this all going?
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I mean, I know this is like condensed right now because we're doing a very short program
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on a very complicated topic and that is creation, but there's so much we could do
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biblically.
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But I want to go to second Peter because a lot of people have a hard time with this.
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It says let one thing, let don't let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that
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with the Lord one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years are like one day.
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And then it says the Lord is not slow about keeping his promise as some count slowness,
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but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.
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So the Lord wants everybody to be saved, not everybody will because we all have a choice
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to make in believing in Jesus Christ or not free will, but verse 10, the day of the Lord
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will come like a thief in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements
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will be destroyed with intense heat and the earth and its works will be burned up.
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And then it goes on.
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But Jay, we didn't, I didn't think I was going to bring that up, but I thought, okay,
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we kind of went to the start and everything's not getting better and then how people explain
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away things.
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And now what the future is going to look like.
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So briefly in the time we have left and we're going to have you back, we'll continue
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this conversation.
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But this earth is not permanent.
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Share your thoughts on that.
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That's the biblical worldview.
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The context in second Peter 3 is just fascinating and we'll just scratch the surface for
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now.
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And ultimately we're dealing with a spiritual issue, most skeptics I talked to are really
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smart people.
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They really are.
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So it's not an academic debate.
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It's a spiritual issue.
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So larger context of second Peter chapter three, Peter's talking about the skeptics of
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our day.
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So Peter's writing almost 2,000 years ago, but he's talking about the skeptics of the
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end times and he specifically referring to the skeptics who are doubting the return of
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Christ.
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Christians today are looking for the return of Christ.
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Peter's talking about those who deny the return of Christ.
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Peter said that these people who are denying the return of Christ are doing so because
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of two reasons and we'll flesh it out more later.
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But the two reasons he mentions come as a shock to most people.
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He said they're doubting the return of Christ because they reject the Genesis creation
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count and they reject the Genesis flood, which I'm interested in those topics.
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I lecture on them all the time.
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So I think that's cool.
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But what's the connection?
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Well, here's the connection by doubting the creation account.
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They deny God as the ultimate authority.
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He created everything.
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He owns it.
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He gets to set the rules.
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They don't like that.
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By rejecting the flood, what was the flood?
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The flood was God's judgment on sin.
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Well, they're not sinners.
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They're good people.
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So they reject his judgment.
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What's the return of Christ?
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Another judgment.
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A second judgment, Peter says, not by water this time by fire.
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Some people say, no, there wasn't a big bang.
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It's common when the elements will melt with fervent heat.
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We're probably going to see that for the end of the universe when God recreates the heavens
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and new earth.
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It'll be very exciting.
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It's all talked about in Scripture, but we know why people are denying it today because
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they deny God as their creator and God as their judge.
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So we'll have to flesh out more in the future, but fascinating context in Jesus says,
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you're not going to know exactly when it's going to happen, but when it's near, look
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for these signs.
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And that's a whole nother topic.
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Yeah.
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And by the way, before we let you go, Jay, I just want to direct people to harbingersdaily.com.
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There's a lot of great articles.
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That's, you know, world news, biblically discerned and a lot of information on what's
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going on in Israel and the Middle East.
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But I like this one.
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I saw an interview with Pastor Gary Hammrich and Sissy Graham Lynch, one of the Graham's,
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one of the descendants of Billy Graham.
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And there's an article called the unprecedented events in Israel are a reminder for Christians
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to get ready.
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So Jay, what you just said reminded me of this article.
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We don't know when we are not meant to know when Jesus went, when his disciples asked
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him.
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So what are the signs of the times and what, what are, can we look for when these things
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are going to happen?
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The first thing he said, he didn't say, well, it's going to be in the year 2025.
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What first thing he said was do not be deceived.
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And then he went on more, but just the, that idea that we don't know when the biblical
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world you teach us, it's coming, prophesying what we're seeing in world events.
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Jay, see, it appears that things are getting closer and closer.
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We've got about two minutes left, your final thoughts.
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Well, that's the important message, I think, for Christians, I can talk about skeptics
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and what some issues are there, but I'd like to spend some time talking to the Christian.
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What are you doing with the time you have when you don't share your faith with other
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people?
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It says one or two things, either a, you don't really believe it yourself.
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That's why you're not sharing it or b, you do believe it.
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You just don't care enough about them to want them to know.
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Neither of those are good options.
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Our time is short.
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The main thing coming up is the return of Christ.
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We should be telling others about it, giving them evidence that the Bible is inspired
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were to God and telling them that there's hope offering hope in a world that's gone upside
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on.
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We as Christians have hope it's in Jesus Christ.
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It's the only real solution.
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Why wouldn't we be sharing that every opportunity we have?
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Exactly.
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Thank you.
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That was awesome.
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Here at the starting point project, Lord willing, this conversation is to be continued.
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So thanks for your time today, brother.
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God bless you and continued growth in your ministry.
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Thanks for the opportunity.
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All right.
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Thanks, Jay.
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We'll talk soon.
27:43
Well, guys, what an impactful week.
27:45
We covered a lot of ground, a lot of topics and a short amount of time with the pastor's
27:49
perspective, John Haller, JB Hickson, Seth Gruber, we're just having a blast here.
27:55
I love the people I get to talk to.
27:56
It's such a blessing.
27:58
Please share on social media because we are limited Facebook, whatever they, the algorithms
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and everything else, they do not like us because we speak the truth and we tell the truth
28:09
and it is the biblical worldview.
28:11
Help get us out there.
28:12
If you can donate, please do that.
28:14
Go to worldviewmatters.tv.
28:17
Next week, a few of the guests include Jim Fletcher, an expert on Israel and historian.
28:23
Also, Sarah Christensen has a ministry in Green Bay, a frontline harvest.
28:28
Ministers to women, discipleship ministry helps women that are coming on the prison.
28:33
A lot of more guests coming up, but we appreciate your time.
28:36
God bless you and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.
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