Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #218: Hickel Woolery-Harlingen (TX) High School

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#218: Hickel Woolery-Harlingen (TX) High School · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

• 0:10
  Track and field coach, the ones that point
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  people most every season. He's the voice of reason.
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  Speaking, the growth gotta prep for you carry the load.
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  Talk to the stove. For those of us, stay on the go
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  of experience, you can reinvent those kids.
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  can you give up Hugh its choice and to fight not to win or lose?
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  about how to All about why you don't know what you're you know
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  All right, here we go. Back with another edition of The
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  Gila buttocks, track and field connections, podcast bringing,
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  you coaches from around the country around the world
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  sometimes and striving to hit every level of track and field.
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  So from Summer Club, coaches to NCAA NAIA, we love you all.
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  If you have coaching your name it doesn't matter what level
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  that is very irrelevant to us. I'm so proud to be your host
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  Mike kind of him national business development manager and
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  really I'm just the Guest host. That's what they pay me for in
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  that the greatest thing in the world, I got the greatest wife
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  in the world. So without further Ado, Let's
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  help me. Welcome, today's guest, we've
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  got from Harlingen High School down in the great state of
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  Texas. It's a little hot down there
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  which were going to learn help me.
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  Welcome the wise, the wonderful, mr.
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  Jaquel Woolery. How are you doing today?
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  I'm good. Sir doing good.
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  So I asked you earlier about your in Harlingen and how hot a
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  must because you're even farther south and I was just in Austin,
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  you're even farther shopping. Is brother thought last in first
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  out in San Antonio. Oh man.
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  Oh so so, so you're burning up. It's like 100 and it's hot
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  unguent or I know engine 3. T is like 110 114.
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  Sometimes, it's hot. It's hot.
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  Oh man. You know what I would rather
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  have that than the cold though, I'm not a like, yeah, I'm from
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  Jamaica. So I like the heat more than the
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  coals. I'll complain about, you know,
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  how hard it is and humidity and Son.
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  Way more. I'm cool with that way.
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  More than I'm freezing. I can't feel my fingers, my
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  nose, Etc. That that's a huge turnoff.
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  I always tell people when they get the, I'm in Illinois, when
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  it gets cold, you know, December through, you know, February and
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  even March. I really travel a lot.
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  I'm like, hey, boss man, mikkel down in Harlingen, needs to see
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  me on a Or I gotta go visit. Well coach, you know what we do
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  here is we explore to uplift and honor your journey.
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  So for you, where does coaching begin for you?
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  And what I mean by that is assuming you were an athlete
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  somewhere, it had to change from the idea that coaching was
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  something that was done to you. Go run this goal, if that it's
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  Etc and maybe somewhere in unlocked for you and was like,
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  wait a minute, like maybe I could be a coach one.
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  Day. Where does that journey start
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  for you? Well, it started to really back
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  home in Jamaica. I've been doing track for very
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  long time. I think since I was like 10 I
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  mean I've been doing track for forever or high school system is
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  somewhat different from here. We start high school at the
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  seventh grade levels and seventh grade. 12 grades are high
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  schools. All we start high school early
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  in high school. I did both soccer and track
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  don't mature matures for soccer and track.
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  And then it became just Track event down the road.
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  Well in caught in high school, While I was doing track, I
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  became the captain. So you got the responsibility of
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  you know you're taking care of the kids as well not Kosher
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  giving responsibilities like okay you are handling the throws
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  today or the sprinters or whatever you're doing so that
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  kind of became that responsibility became something
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  that taught me how to really work with others.
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  You know. And here you can develop into
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  literally being a student of the sport, you know.
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  So I learned a lot through that. And I was a multi that is in
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  high school and they have talent.
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  Now, I'm really in high school. I was a hypocrite lead in high
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  school and I also was a shot, put discus guy specialty as
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  well. So that's all I recruited to
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  come to America. Got recruited to go to A&M
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  Corpus Christi hell, yeah ships. That's rooted to be a hip to
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  athlete that deck at leats. Yeah, I had a few events.
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  Yeah, so a dick alleys, in college, but we didn't have the
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  facility. Didn't have porvoo, first came
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  here, didn't Corpus Christi. So when we finished indoor coach
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  Flanagan was like, hey you want to just focus on throws or focus
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  on the events that we do have because we don't have full
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  versus so. We can't really just throw into
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  the deck without learning pole vault.
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  So, that's kind of whole, I became strictly throwing in
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  college, but the sprinting jumping, all that stuff was part
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  of my background as well. Will you stay stay there in high
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  school? I'm always fascinated, you know,
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  I grew up in In the state of Alabama and you know how we did
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  things. There is different than when I
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  first started coaching high school in Chicago and certainly,
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  it's different than California Texas.
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  We have a lot of different culture as it relates to track
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  and just our 50 states here, I'm always fascinated with another
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  country and a country. I've never been to.
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  I think my bias says, oh, when you said you're from Jamaica, my
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  oh, he must have been a sprinter because of you saying and yeah,
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  yeah, I think roll your eyes are pretty much, you know, I mean,
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  but I started Started off with everything pretty much you know
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  it was doing jobs we have commission against drunk guys
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  have commercially is the sprinters I was on really teams
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  but I also threw two. So I was literally a multi
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  encompassing everything you know and under the cap of you seen Bo
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  really we're the same age. You know we have similar people
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  friends. We know we come, he was
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  competing the same time. I was competing so we'll have
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  Chapman's together and stuff like that.
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  So it's literally The that realm of that leads that you never.
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  I know really cause I was on a junior team with Shelly and
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  freezer press Yohan Blake was on the junior team with him as
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  well. So it is very small countrymen.
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  If you don't track back then then you pretty much a part of
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  that group, you know, to I'm curious.
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  And we'll get to your current status here.
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  S as a high school coach here in Texas, in America, but kind of
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  knowing that, you know, both now you know, you've coached High
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  School here in And you went through the high school system,
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  they are in Jamaica. What are some of the differences
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  in our converge to 0 that? See if you're watching this on
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  YouTube, you saw space. There must be some Mega
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  differences here. Yeah, what's that difference in
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  my culture, for our sport in down in Jamaica?
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  I think the work ethic is a bit different training wise, a bit
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  different as well. I think we treated much hard
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  about whom the work that they were at the end of a big part of
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  it, like it's real. Competition that you can't
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  slack. You know here sometimes you
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  struggle to get some kids to join your team back home.
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  We get a few kids, everybody have to perform because you have
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  another bunch of kids were equally as fast if not faster
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  and they want to run. You know.
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  I think that's the thing kids want to run back home.
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  Here is almost like a punishment you know, was I don't want to
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  run because this punishment. So you sometimes you have kids
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  who are talented, who do not even do track.
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  Another thing is we have a lot Or Sports here where kids can go
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  and join, you know, you have a lot of kids who want to play
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  football. I mean you have some kids were
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  actually track is but they want to play football.
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  Yeah, yeah. I'm kids a good way to describe
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  it kids, who actually tracking, but it won the basketball, you
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  know? So you have so many sports here,
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  that kids can get involved in some time.
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  Their main sport is not really a means for because they probably
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  love basketball more. They love football more, but
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  that's not really what's for them, you know.
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  So I think, Think. Selection wise, we don't have as
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  much choice of sports about home.
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  You know, we have football and everything else.
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  We have a few sports but track is one of the biggest Sports.
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  No, because you see both as need a bigger than life itself.
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  So I think more kids are getting involved in track but the system
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  here is just you don't have enough kids.
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  I think we're trying to do track.
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  It's almost like a secondary thing.
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  I'm the one I'm not going to track and even though a lot of
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  kids who have the talent who could be really fast but they're
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  in other sports too you know. So I think that's the biggest
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  difference, you know, finding that talent pool of kids, who
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  want to do track willingly. What about the the coaching side
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  of it? You know, you've met, plenty of
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  American high school and college coaches.
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  And obviously, you had your own High School coaches, and maybe
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  they met some other high schools and college coaches there in
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  Jamaica. Is there a difference in how
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  they approach the profession of coat?
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  Like how they approach coaching kids or is that kind of may be
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  Universal? To some extent, I would say high
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  school kids who are coached in track back home, those coaches
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  are predominately track, coaches.
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  I think are more specialized in track.
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  I think here you have coaches who are knocking anybody, but
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  you have a football coach is on track for watch, you know, but
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  he does know as much about track as football, but he's
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  predominately a football coach with schools in tract or other
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  sports, you know. So it's not as specialized.
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  As I was in Jamaica. Jamaica.
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  Yeah, your track called. Usually he's going check out
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  here. You know here you have coaches
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  who are jumping from different sport and going to track later
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  on. So that's a big big difference
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  which mean that it also shows level of knowledge as well
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  because the kids are getting that level of knowledge and I've
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  always talked about at least who were probably made from other
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  schools and I hear what they're doing.
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  I'm like okay, okay, you know. So The professional pool of
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  track coaches is not as big a loser as Jamaica because those
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  track coaches back home. They're really track coaches,
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  you know? Yeah, I think in this is where
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  it's so interesting because even inside of America, we have
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  different pockets and yeah, culture, you know, where I grew
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  up in Alabama, very similar to almost exactly what you said,
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  you know, my I played football, our football coaching staff was
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  every other sport coach. So, you know, our basketball
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  coach was the DB coach, our tennis coach was offensive line.
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  Coach our track coach was the quarterback coach Etc.
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  And I remembered I moved from Alabama to Chicago and I called
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  a local high school to see if they needed a volunteer.
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  Just someone to come help a couple of days, you know, I was
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  in college and such and some talking to the track coach and
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  Russell Martin. I'll never forget him and I
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  asked him as I coach. So what position do you coach
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  and football? And he do, he was like, dismay,
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  he, like he didn't understand. The question is like, What do
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  you mean? And I was like, well, like you
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  obviously coach foot like everybody comes just like he
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  laughs because you know what? I had met him at the point, you
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  know, at that point. But when I finally did I kind
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  of, you know, he was the prototypical distance guy, you
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  know, you 62 skinny. You know it's like what what am
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  I going to do with football? Is what?
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  He was kind of thinking but he was just laughing, he's like, no
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  Mike. He goes I just coach cross
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  country and track and that blew my mind.
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  My mind, I thought, you know what?
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  My experience was an Alabama. Well, that was what it was
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  everywhere in my mind and so, to actually learn that.
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  There are some places somebody think.
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  Yeah, the track coaches are the track coaches, basketball is
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  basketball, etcetera. I still remember just being
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  floor like that that does Bizarro world for me.
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  It was really crazy. Another aspect, that's kind of
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  interesting for you. And I hear this more
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  internationally, we had a really good 5,000 meter Runner when I
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  was at, Well, University from England and he mentioned grown
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  up in like a club system over there and how when he first
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  started track, he did triple jump and shot put and here in
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  America big swath stare at stereotype here because it's not
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  like this everywhere. But here we tend to pigeonhole
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  people. Like first time you come out for
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  track, you are a sprinter or you are over or you know, you go one
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  way and you don't don't look at the throwers, your jumper, you
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  stay over here but I hear Or more internationally where you
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  kind of get a taste of a lot of different events was in, you
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  mentioned that in your story? Is that normal in Jamaica or
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  were you? Yes, I think most thorough as
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  wanted worries. A Sprint us because my feet are
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  thorough. Are your feelings person?
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  You think you're fast. So you want to go run again, the
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  Sprinter some time or just for just for fun.
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  If you could maybe just for fun like many, that guy's pretty
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  fast. So I throw it.
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  I mean, let's see what you can do.
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  Doing something else. So sometimes it becomes like a
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  game, more fun thing to do and then you can see other things
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  he's doing other things. I always have my third, my
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  sprinting friends, they always want to come to our shop with,
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  or they want to go jump off forgetting somebody.
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  So it's like that. I guess in the beginning, we're
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  weird. Really exploring.
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  We're exploring different things can do different things.
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  You might not be fast, but it still trying to run again
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  somebody who is fast but you might, you might have a
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  spotlight on you that man, that kid Pretty fast.
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  So that's kind of like how it works.
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  You know, you're not restricted in the sense of you're just
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  throw back home. I think even throws coaches are
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  open to them doing some Sprint work, you know just to see how
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  they look does. That mean somewhere, there's a
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  picture of Usain Bolt high jumping or throw in the
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  distance, I heard he's been a good long jumper.
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  Is it very well? This is to is I'm sure he
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  probably tried other things. He prayed was good at it and
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  just didn't do it, you know? So yeah.
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  Yeah, right, right. Do you think, you know, so you
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  came over to the state as a multi recruit and then went to
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  focus and we're going to talk about that when focus on the
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  throws. Do you think though that all
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  those other things helped you to become a better thrower, when
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  you were high jump in and sprinting and maybe heard one
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  like that athleticism help you? Or would you have been better
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  served to just have gone from seventh grade on become a
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  throat? Did Throw or things only way.
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  I think that definitely helped me overall being Dynamic
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  Athlete. I think great athletes are
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  Dynamic. You're not boxing the show most
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  great even sprinters. They probably could do long
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  jump. I don't know.
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  They probably can do one or two other events.
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  Even in the Sprint around itself, you may have a good one
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  to guy who could actually do a 400 could do a long job, you
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  know, so it means could do a hurdle, some guy's pretty good
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  herbivore sprinters. So I think a great athlete is a
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  very dynamic Ali did not stop in just 100, you know, their stuff
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  in being able to Branch out into other things.
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  And you've noticed some of the big star, like Fred Curly,
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  Shirley Jackson. They've done other events.
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  You know, they just picture me with even the one really would
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  do. But that thing that makes you a
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  better Ally, the dynamic, a lead is always a great at least.
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  Now is that the morality? It's like a dynamically.
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  It is a great at least have. So it definitely helped me
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  overall becoming a better throw into the balance coordination.
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  I mean speed definitely helped a lot.
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  Yeah. So when you were looking at
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  coming over to college here in the states, did you what did you
• 16:54
  come into? What did you go to school for at
• 16:58
  least originally? Did you think you were going to
• 16:59
  become a teacher? Did you want to become an
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  engineer? What was your first original
• 17:05
  dream job. I get his physical therapy dream
• 17:09
  job, you know? Mm of degrees biomedical
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  Sciences. My bachelor's degree because
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  science is a minor in economics. So that's my new black.
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  So, I didn't ever thought about becoming a teacher, you know, I
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  think the opportunity has presented itself when I finished
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  College actually went back to coach college.
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  So I coach am carpets for two years.
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  Okay. Okay.
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  For two years and then the opportunity came to teach in
• 17:35
  high school. I'm like, okay on my jump on
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  that it pays a little bit better at the end of the day.
• 17:42
  Like okay and I had a kid in my okay.
• 17:44
  I definitely need to Branch out a bit more so that's what the
• 17:48
  opportunity came along. So yeah, we'll definitely dive
• 17:51
  into that because I love exploring college not versus
• 17:55
  High School coaching. But like, I like to, I like to
• 17:59
  bust myths. And there's, there's a big myth
• 18:02
  out there that for college. You can't hire a high school
• 18:04
  coach. They just can't coach College
• 18:07
  previously in the world because, of course, the bullets.
• 18:10
  Yeah, exactly. We found, you know, it is, you
• 18:12
  know we've had 200 plus coaches here on the Gill podcast.
• 18:16
  A lot of coaches that college coaches started as High School
• 18:20
  coaches. So I don't understand how it can
• 18:23
  be a myth that High School coaches, can't coach College
• 18:25
  when a lot of our college. Coaches started out as High
• 18:27
  School coaches. I just don't understand it.
• 18:29
  So we'll explore that here in a little bit.
• 18:31
  Tell me about your college career.
• 18:33
  You mentioned, Sean Flanagan, I've known him for a long time,
• 18:36
  man. How did how did you end up
• 18:39
  picking Corpus Christi and then, how did your As you started,
• 18:42
  transitioning from multi to throws.
• 18:43
  How'd that go for you? Well, the way it started out and
• 18:47
  Coach, that Artie was the coach at Todd engine until he was a
• 18:51
  Sean was the distance coach and the Sprint schools was coach
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  Doherty. He was a well-known Jamaican
• 18:58
  track coach right time when he eventually started coaching at
• 19:02
  him Corpus Christi. So he recruited me cuz the high
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  school I went he used me to coach their way back in the day.
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  So I wouldn't intrude in Jamaica.
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  Had that Connection. So that's what that came along
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  that connection came along and that's what end up in Corpus
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  Christi. So that's how that started the
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  transition itself being there was, it was very different
• 19:25
  obviously, College is very different, you have indoor or
• 19:29
  outdoor long, see if you compete internationally, that's also
• 19:33
  more competition later on. So it's very, very different in
• 19:37
  that aspect, but that's who I end up going to Corpus Christi.
• 19:42
  You mentioned in you said, obviously it's different but it
• 19:46
  may not be obvious to all of us. What is different?
• 19:50
  I'm going to assume? We don't have indoor track in
• 19:53
  Jamaica, High School. Don't know.
• 19:54
  We do have indoor track my phone, but do you have an
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  extent? I, again, I've never been so I
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  just know the weather is, at least favorable.
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  Yeah. Longer outdoor season.
• 20:03
  Like you start in January for outdoor season or do you work
• 20:07
  the early? I think we start.
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  Probably mid January. Okay, probably in your having
• 20:14
  meetings in January February. Yeah, season probably, that's
• 20:18
  the only thing that might be different, but right.
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  We find out more meets, maybe let me give her get to Julie,
• 20:26
  but that's the biggest different.
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  We do have indoor back over at. All right, all right.
• 20:30
  Big difference to transition into indoor season.
• 20:33
  Yeah. Is the big, you know, in our
• 20:36
  state and, you know, you know better than anybody being in
• 20:38
  Texas for high school. You know, our big goal is to
• 20:41
  make it to the state me, right? It's so hard.
• 20:44
  You know, it's hard for any State.
• 20:46
  Texas is no exception. It's extremely hard to pick a
• 20:49
  task that the in Jamaica. You have the, The Boys Are the
• 20:53
  Champions, the boys and girls Championship is the Holy Grail,
• 20:58
  a key. And I just had a conversation
• 21:00
  with all my friends, who coating at the University level, as
• 21:03
  like, there's nothing like it, you know, there's and I told
• 21:07
  them, they need to go to recruit in Jamaica, go to boys and girls
• 21:09
  chance because that atmosphere. I don't think you can duplicate
• 21:14
  that anywhere, anywhere, really? I mean, if you go to the Olympic
• 21:18
  level, I think that would be something closer to you.
• 21:21
  What does impose Champs? Is that is that epic?
• 21:25
  It is that epic man. It's an epic place and moose
• 21:28
  high school. Kids I think who get recruited
• 21:30
  to come to school in America. They realize real fast that they
• 21:35
  won't experience that experience again.
• 21:37
  Like, you wouldn't have been there for that moves me is
• 21:41
  because the level of The atmospheres are so different.
• 21:46
  The atmosphere is like, nothing nothing.
• 21:49
  You can describe the know, you can describe.
• 21:51
  That's interesting. We hit we had Carol Lawrence
• 21:54
  head, coach of Johnson C Smith who is from Jamaica as well.
• 21:57
  We were talking about this and I, you know, it's a bucket list
• 22:00
  of mine to go to that me because I've seen video.
• 22:03
  I mean, I've seen video of, like, people climbing into this.
• 22:06
  Yeah. Whatever it takes, never thought
• 22:11
  you said something really interesting there that the kids
• 22:14
  that I'm from Jamaica. That went to the champion, the
• 22:17
  boys and girls championship and the experience.
• 22:19
  This just part of me, you know, is fanaticism for this will come
• 22:25
  to the states and I can't think of another single meet in the
• 22:28
  states with from the videos that I've seen where it's like that.
• 22:31
  Remember that be I want to say a letdown but maybe it's a letdown
• 22:37
  maybe is a letdown but they mean the experience won't because of
• 22:41
  me I think. Tickets, Texas, really and Penn
• 22:44
  relays. Or two of those big means where
• 22:46
  the crowd is definitely a big crowd for those two big, you
• 22:49
  know, but even then it won't be. What about the Texas High School
• 22:54
  meat? That's a pretty and I've been to
• 22:55
  that one. I don't think it's worth it
• 22:57
  ones. Climbing into the stadium is
• 23:00
  pretty big, but even then again the crowd the energy, it's not
• 23:06
  even close. The energy is just I don't know
• 23:11
  this kind of energy but the energy is amazing.
• 23:13
  You know, it's amazing guy. I've been divorced me.
• 23:15
  I've been always been the Penn relays.
• 23:17
  I've been to six Achilles, I've been to State me many years and
• 23:20
  I've seen crowd energy, the energy is not closed.
• 23:25
  Not even close the boys and girls Champs back home.
• 23:28
  I haven't been to the Penn relays and 15 years and I went
• 23:31
  this year and it was fun. I called my wife in the middle
• 23:35
  of, you know, the 85th heat of the four by four.
• 23:39
  She's like, how are you doing the rain, the 85th heat of the
• 23:43
  four by four and she's like 85th like 20 more to go.
• 23:47
  Oh, and by the way, just boys girls are in about another, but
• 23:52
  I remember watching through the four days that I was there
• 23:57
  because when the last time I'd been there was when I was
• 23:59
  coaching at Mississippi State so I was coaching so I didn't
• 24:01
  really pay attention to the crowd, you know, I was focused
• 24:04
  on my a please this time I got to sit back and kind of pay
• 24:07
  attention to Jamaica and You know, the culture they driver.
• 24:11
  Yeah. And I remember you know they're
• 24:14
  everybody's in the not everybody but you know, Jamaican in
• 24:16
  Jamaican spores on their green and yellow and there they've got
• 24:19
  their, you know, bags and yes? Yes, yeah yeah fantastic.
• 24:24
  And to your point the enthusiasm was not the chart on that 85th
• 24:30
  and these kids are running, you know for the boys 434 the 4x4 so
• 24:34
  nothing but not breaking any records here.
• 24:37
  What if a In got close of a leg close to catching.
• 24:42
  Someone else didn't matter if that kid was running, 60
• 24:45
  seconds, 40 seconds the crowd was.
• 24:48
  Whoa yes yes yes, yes. I got to experience in a
• 24:53
  different way is like this like this.
• 24:55
  This is what track should be like this.
• 24:57
  Yeah, yeah exactly. That's and that's like a
• 25:01
  microcosm of what boys and girls chances.
• 25:04
  You know they give you an idea like this fight is over there.
• 25:07
  What is it like, it's Crazy crazy.
• 25:10
  I think even the you same balls in the Shell Ian Frazer prize,
• 25:14
  they can attest to that. I when they were boys and girls
• 25:17
  Champs, the environment is just that's why I think that's why
• 25:21
  they still go even know, you know, if you look in the curl,
• 25:23
  you'll see you seem bowl there, boys, and girls Champs most
• 25:27
  years. He's there Chilean free
• 25:28
  surprised me. Most past at least you to go
• 25:30
  back and pay in Jamaica. So that energy is just unheard
• 25:35
  of man. Are they doing that?
• 25:37
  You know, the Sprint's Jamaica gets the Press for a lot of the
• 25:40
  people you just mentioned, but we've had some amazing throwers
• 25:43
  from Jamaica, livers. I thought was a have been.
• 25:48
  Does that same enthusiasm carry over to the other events as
• 25:51
  well? Or is it?
• 25:52
  It's like a hundred shows up and that's when we're going to go
• 25:56
  crazy. I think Jamaicans know, you
• 25:58
  know, because they are also fans so they know if kids are doing
• 26:03
  well since the and we know early say for example have some good
• 26:07
  throws right now we've had these throws For a while.
• 26:10
  But jamika know. So you go and watch, you see
• 26:13
  discuss go and far or Joplin good.
• 26:15
  Wow. They give them support as well.
• 26:16
  You know? Yes, the Sprint is the Highlight
• 26:19
  usually Trump, but other events also gets me and get some
• 26:24
  notoriety as well. You know, I think throws up.
• 26:26
  Definitely grown tremendously in Jamaica over the years.
• 26:30
  We've had some very good coaches over there, who have definitely
• 26:32
  expanded the program. So most events are getting
• 26:36
  better at quite a few event or jumps.
• 26:38
  Are getting crazy right now. Definitely doing really well.
• 26:42
  Right now the Freshman from Arkansas.
• 26:44
  He's right. Yeah, he brought his Doom.
• 26:45
  Yeah, he's a man he's amazing. I mean really amazing like yeah
• 26:50
  he's not the regular amazing he's a many keys jump from a
• 26:53
  full approach yet. Like it's been doing like five
• 26:55
  jumps or five step six. Step seven, five steps.
• 26:58
  I've seen that. He's ridiculous.
• 27:02
  I know real. Well is a really really good.
• 27:04
  So I'm like, oh man. Like he's a got him on a path.
• 27:06
  Like it's this kid could I mean he's already specials.
• 27:09
  A freshman jumping with jump. It can be really special like he
• 27:13
  can be, I hate to say it this way, but he could be a Usain
• 27:16
  Bolt of the job. Think about it.
• 27:39
  I think they've done, they've been doing it the Smart Way, by
• 27:43
  gradually progressing them because his Seasons gonna
• 27:45
  obviously be longer than everybody else to season rights,
• 27:48
  but the world championships and have all these me.
• 27:50
  So, I think the weight progressing him is very, very
• 27:53
  smart. And I mean, the way they're
• 27:55
  doing it is probably probably wouldn't work for every athlete
• 27:58
  because he just is just that talented, man.
• 28:01
  He does need take two or three jumps and does it?
• 28:06
  Well, let's get back to your transformational.
• 28:09
  You're so you go through you get you say by a medical, what was
• 28:13
  your made that sound of too smart for me, pre-professional
• 28:17
  in biomedical Sciences, that's what managing, professional by
• 28:20
  among scientists. That's way too many words for an
• 28:23
  undergrad degree for me. And you got would you say he
• 28:25
  cannot mix as well with that makes minor.
• 28:28
  Yes what were you thinking like what you gonna own a
• 28:31
  pre-professional biomedical company?
• 28:33
  What we do man? It's it mean that's the part
• 28:36
  that mean you could have gone differently It's to become a
• 28:39
  physical therapist. I don't know why I chose that
• 28:42
  path. Maybe because of that man must
• 28:44
  at least don't take this path. The probably take the
• 28:47
  Kinesiology Road or whatever and I will challenge myself more,
• 28:51
  but in hindsight, it worked out because I know my science
• 28:53
  teacher in high school. You know, I teach chemistry
• 28:56
  physics, oh, it works towards the end of the day, sometimes
• 28:59
  different. Oh, but your direction will be,
• 29:01
  you mean, that's how life is sometimes.
• 29:03
  But as you're going through, you're not thinking of teaching
• 29:06
  your the I'm not taking Physical Therapy, things like that.
• 29:09
  At but when you graduate you said you started coaching there
• 29:11
  at Corpus Christi. Yes.
• 29:13
  Now or I'll work as a physical therapist technician for two
• 29:17
  years first. Yeah, two years of physical
• 29:20
  therapy technician and then I spoke with Sean and he's like,
• 29:26
  okay, the position is open, you would like to coach him out,
• 29:29
  okay? I'm not, I can't handle it.
• 29:30
  Then let me have all events and it's not hard to do codes.
• 29:34
  That's when I really got vamped up into the coaching thing.
• 29:37
  And obviously I did my research, I did coaching school, I did all
• 29:43
  those different things and that's why I went to even though
• 29:45
  I was a thorough, I was hungry for knowledge, you know.
• 29:48
  That's one thing that will make you a good coach.
• 29:51
  I was hungry for knowledge. After that, John Gallina had
• 29:54
  that throws Camp thing as well as okay.
• 29:56
  Even though I'm very versed in throwing.
• 29:59
  It's good to learn more you know outside the box and figure out
• 30:02
  things. So that's all I eventually met
• 30:05
  John and his throwing Camp was really amazing.
• 30:08
  It really, I open it, you know so I learned a lot from him as
• 30:12
  well but I didn't definitely my research going back into even
• 30:15
  Jamaican mentality of hold the coach at leads all Cool, again,
• 30:19
  meals the Francis holy coaches. That leads a definitely took a
• 30:24
  look at coaching overall, you know, right up a whole stuff.
• 30:28
  Also, I like old-school stuff, you know, I like old-school
• 30:31
  stuff, tried hard stuff. I like Michael Johnson, sir.
• 30:35
  I research a glad heart so that a lot of different backgrounds
• 30:39
  and principles and put together to my all the things coach there
• 30:44
  for two years and then the teaching you were coaching
• 30:46
  throws their, right? I was coaching Thing there I was
• 30:50
  thinking throws and I was like, okay, help me if you want to
• 30:53
  just unlock something huge. I was like, how did Clyde heart
• 30:56
  straining help you with throws II?
• 30:59
  I was coaching, everything is printers dumpers throws.
• 31:02
  I was teaching, I was coaching everything from her toes.
• 31:05
  This Prince? Yeah.
• 31:06
  But we didn't have a lot of coaches, then when I was in.
• 31:09
  Yes, I literally was working all day long.
• 31:11
  Just, yeah, hold every event, which helped me as well.
• 31:15
  When I came to cut High School, the coaches, also it all work.
• 31:18
  I thought sometimes right? How was that experience?
• 31:21
  You know, it's interesting, you know, coaching is hard, whether
• 31:25
  you're coaching just the throwers or just pole vault, you
• 31:29
  know, to coach and we see this quite often on that's gonna say
• 31:34
  the college side. But you know, you mentioned in
• 31:37
  high school. I love asking High School coach.
• 31:39
  What do you coach? And he's like, I'm high school
• 31:41
  coach, our coach everything, get the mentality there but what
• 31:44
  you're talking about is, you know, almost from sunup to,
• 31:47
  sundown, you've got the Sprint. This time.
• 31:49
  And if the jumper is that you have to have to position them.
• 31:53
  That's why the good did you did you like that or what were some
• 31:57
  of the challenges for that? I mean, that was tough, you
• 32:00
  know? Because Sometimes, the reason
• 32:04
  why you have a specialized coach in college because you need a
• 32:09
  lot of time with those at least, you know.
• 32:11
  So I was literally being spread thin because I had to be
• 32:14
  coaching sprinters a certain time.
• 32:16
  John was a certain time, my sprinters would be jumpers
• 32:20
  sometimes. So to modify that as well, I'ma
• 32:23
  throw was needed their time. At that point, I was also
• 32:27
  designing the strength workout program as well.
• 32:29
  So we had to put time in forestry and orko.
• 32:32
  As well. So, there's a lot.
• 32:33
  I mean, I literally was coaching 826 like a regular job.
• 32:39
  And I mean, I think most coaches don't coach that long.
• 32:41
  I mean, you probably caught you throws group for a certain
• 32:44
  period always and he go do other things, you know, so salad all
• 32:47
  that stuff and I was still recruiting, literally, I was
• 32:51
  working working you know, I do think a lot of college coaches
• 32:55
  do that much work. But yeah, it's interesting
• 32:59
  because you know, know know coaches Her come to me and so
• 33:02
  they were afraid of work. So it's not that there are so
• 33:06
  many things that are coming at you, you know, you're working
• 33:09
  8:00 to 6:00 which okay, you know, that's and again, you're
• 33:12
  coaching track. So we're outside piteous and
• 33:16
  things like that, but there is paperwork, you still have to do,
• 33:19
  there's a fruiting. So, you know, when you're done
• 33:21
  it, six, you ain't done. Because now you got to go cold,
• 33:23
  call kids and coaches and things like that.
• 33:25
  Oh, and by the way, you're probably making a third of what
• 33:29
  you should be making the terribly.
• 33:31
  To do that as well. Yeah, that's that's a big
• 33:35
  factor. Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:38
  There had to be though, you know, I've experienced those
• 33:41
  type of situations. There are certainly though times
• 33:45
  of just because when you're in the muck and, you know, they're
• 33:47
  all the time, some really fun, you know, working with the young
• 33:51
  people, some fun times together and laughter, yes, relationships
• 33:56
  are always be built on those things.
• 33:58
  You build a good relationship, even though me and I love the
• 34:01
  kids are quotient. His minions to cool.
• 34:03
  Some are teachers and high school.
• 34:04
  No. Actually some of them are
• 34:05
  teaching some are doing different things, branching up,
• 34:07
  but that relationship lasts for a long time, you know?
• 34:12
  So that's a good thing too. As you're working through, you
• 34:15
  know, just really long hours, really hot long hours to, by the
• 34:18
  way. Any thought you you mentioned,
• 34:21
  you know, Physical Therapy thought of going back to that,
• 34:23
  or what? It wasn't me.
• 34:25
  I felt content to some extent, but Physical Therapy was to them
• 34:28
  back of my mind. You know, I think that's
• 34:30
  something that I really enjoy. Lloyd in the sense of what it
• 34:33
  does. I really love coaching.
• 34:35
  I mean so that's some I mean even though I still think about
• 34:39
  physical therapy sometimes but I'm not man as love coaching
• 34:43
  high school kids so much more. Let me see.
• 34:46
  It's interesting. It's interesting though.
• 34:49
  So he spent two years there? Yes.
• 34:51
  What came next that I actually like Windstream the teaching?
• 34:56
  I went straight into the position at Harlingen, I got
• 34:59
  that portion. Was available, so I got it.
• 35:03
  They need a science teacher. So when I first got there, the
• 35:06
  first thing I did was reach out to the out of the coordinators.
• 35:09
  Hey, I'm, I could coach track there.
• 35:12
  I've been interested in coaching chat there and they hooked up
• 35:17
  the assistant coaching position at a time.
• 35:20
  So, I was assistant. And then by the next year, The
• 35:25
  person was coaching kind of left the opened, the girls hit.
• 35:29
  Cool portion was open but my okay, no problem.
• 35:31
  And I can definitely handle this in.
• 35:33
  So that's all that came along and mean, it's, you know, I, I
• 35:39
  taught usatf level ones for many, many years.
• 35:43
  And one of the most common questions that we would get from
• 35:47
  High School. Coaches was, how do I become a
• 35:49
  college coach? And I always say you don't,
• 35:53
  that's like you do. Like you live in this town, you
• 35:56
  know, you make this amount of money you're done at 5:00 or
• 36:00
  6:00 every night. You know, you don't have a
• 36:03
  fall-like, do stay where you are trust me.
• 36:06
  Yeah, and I think a lot of I should say a lot of I think
• 36:10
  there are college coaches out there that see the high school
• 36:17
  Market. If you will and say man, maybe
• 36:20
  I'd want to do that. How did that position?
• 36:25
  How did, how did that position come about?
• 36:27
  And what I mean by that is, you know, you're coaching College,
• 36:30
  you don't have a teaching degree.
• 36:32
  How did I let you know? I think there's people out there
• 36:34
  that did you transition? How did that?
• 36:35
  But you can become vicious. Other was I have to get a
• 36:40
  probationary teaching certification.
• 36:42
  They do. They have those where you can
• 36:43
  start off teaching actually, I did a PACE program because of
• 36:47
  your degree is like, okay. He may not know how to teach,
• 36:50
  but he knows the content knowledge.
• 36:54
  Is their content knowledge and pedagogy as well.
• 37:01
  So you have to do both. So you have to know how to be a
• 37:03
  teacher, but yeah, if you have content knowledge and okay, you
• 37:06
  could start off with a probationary certificate and
• 37:09
  then eventually get your certificate while teaching.
• 37:12
  So you have lot of programs know, who that assist you in
• 37:14
  getting into the teaching world. So that wasn't really that of a
• 37:17
  hard transition coaching is teaching, so you always teach in
• 37:23
  some way. Somehow so, so what was that?
• 37:27
  Did you have to go back into classes?
• 37:29
  Or we have to go to if a certification program is not
• 37:33
  everyday is like on the weekends they went on the weekends for
• 37:38
  the first For five months or something like that and then you
• 37:43
  have to take an exam at the end and that certifies you to be a
• 37:46
  teacher. You also have to take a Content
• 37:48
  test as well to see your certified.
• 37:50
  Certain content area. So people are losing the content
• 37:53
  test was pretty quick because, that's your knowledge already,
• 37:56
  you know, so pick one to get teaching one, do requires you to
• 38:00
  get some always teaching and go through some different
• 38:06
  professional development as a teacher.
• 38:07
  So that's kind of how that works.
• 38:10
  There's your to like, Shadow another teacher.
• 38:11
  I mean, you're teaching though at the same time.
• 38:13
  So shadow in the teacher, wouldn't even have to try to
• 38:16
  teach until I had a mentor at one point, but you have
• 38:20
  observation always had a chart of observation of others as
• 38:23
  well. We, I need to get a certain
• 38:24
  number of observations was for the year, but I can still teach
• 38:28
  while getting that. Is that you observing someone
• 38:30
  else or someone observing, you observing somebody else?
• 38:34
  Okay. So like during your planning
• 38:36
  period, you could go watch the other than a, okay, God?
• 38:40
  Okay. So you kind of see how they're
• 38:41
  doing things and that, that actually, that's kind of like
• 38:43
  on-the-job training. Like I kind of like that.
• 38:45
  Yeah, like a coach I'm like, hey, you should go watch that
• 38:47
  coach for an hour and just, yeah, I think that's going to
• 38:50
  help you, that's really cool. So what was it like the first
• 38:53
  time? You know, sometimes ego can be
• 38:57
  bad, egos not bad. Bad ego is bad.
• 39:00
  You know, you're coming from a rich track and Tradition in
• 39:04
  Jamaica, you are a college athlete.
• 39:07
  You now coached college for two years and now you're looking at
• 39:10
  a bunch of 14 to 18 year old and I know everything.
• 39:14
  Will you guys shut up and listen, how was that process of
• 39:18
  coaching and starting to coach high school kids?
• 39:20
  I mean, at first, I can come somebody would like to observe
• 39:24
  first to see how things are done.
• 39:27
  So when I actually first thought, as I assistant, I
• 39:30
  really backed off, I didn't really push to do a bunch of
• 39:33
  stuff. I really was.
• 39:34
  He's backing up a lot of the see and observe how how the process
• 39:38
  is run, how people approach it, and what the coaches knew, you
• 39:41
  know, I just want to be able to observe and see what was going
• 39:44
  on at time. I sistent my the headboard
• 39:48
  squirt, a chambray assistant head coach right now.
• 39:51
  He was like, I mean, I would like you to do more.
• 39:54
  You mean he asked me to do more. So, okay, So eventually he
• 39:58
  pretty much. I love the coach, both the boys
• 40:00
  and girls in areas as I see fit. So that helped me be
• 40:03
  comfortable. Thing, you know what, okay, it's
• 40:06
  not like I'm taking over the body's position, you know, he's
• 40:09
  allowing me to impart my knowledge under the team.
• 40:12
  So that was easy to transition because he wasn't the ego thing
• 40:16
  for them, right? I have me do I started doing
• 40:19
  more with the group's there, so that definitely helped build the
• 40:23
  program real fast as well. You were a really good point
• 40:26
  there. I was talking about your
• 40:29
  eyesight into it, but you're right that the existing coaches
• 40:32
  could be like, all right. Stay, you know, we need to
• 40:35
  throws coach or whatever you started.
• 40:37
  Stay over there, we've been doing this for years, but it's
• 40:41
  they had a great posture of like, hey man, I need, maybe
• 40:44
  you're right the right person for this.
• 40:46
  I could use help. Could you take these applicants
• 40:48
  as well? That's not true really.
• 40:49
  That shows a lot of maturity and the character of those of that
• 40:53
  coaches well what did you start out?
• 40:55
  You start out kind of in the throat with the plaza as far as
• 40:59
  and then I would jump to the real ease and then then that
• 41:03
  group that came in. Was the Jose Garcia, he won
• 41:06
  State actually for us. But that group came in as
• 41:10
  freshman and I started working with them early.
• 41:12
  So I started working with really is and Sprint's hurdlers.
• 41:16
  So I pretty much was bouncing around different areas as well
• 41:19
  and then I pretty much transition through everybody
• 41:22
  working with everybody really. So definitely that help the team
• 41:26
  overall because I know everybody got bit of knowledge, you know,
• 41:29
  so that helped real fast and developing the athletes, that's
• 41:33
  how that works. T'.
• 41:34
  You know, this is fascinating to me because a lot of times we
• 41:38
  should say get a lot of times. Sometimes I believe it's more
• 41:42
  common that a high school coach will move on to the college
• 41:44
  ranks. But I love this college coach
• 41:46
  who moved to high school ranks in a few weeks ago.
• 41:49
  We had Fatima Shabazz who also did the same thing.
• 41:52
  She's longtime coach at Kentucky State University, moves to
• 41:56
  Vermont. New Hampshire and starts
• 41:57
  coaching High School there. What have you seen?
• 42:01
  I'm curious the difference in how you coach college kids
• 42:07
  versus high school kids and remember we don't talk X's and
• 42:10
  O's, I'm not talking about, you know, this drill that drill more
• 42:13
  like a loss of fee and things like that, the high school vs
• 42:18
  College. Its is very, very different in
• 42:23
  college. Obviously you'll have more time
• 42:24
  with the kids like in the more. So that's a big big factor.
• 42:28
  He can do more, your programming can be much different can do you
• 42:31
  have? And those kids are just doing
• 42:33
  track. I mean College, you don't have
• 42:35
  any attracted doing football, basketball, volleyball, three,
• 42:38
  four, five sports, you're tracking the track in.
• 42:40
  So you have time to really iron out on all the things, the
• 42:45
  strength Kings, the flexibility stuff, all the little intricate
• 42:50
  things that make your create a lead.
• 42:52
  You have time to work on those things in high school you have
• 42:55
  to really modify a lot because you are one immediacy of a star
• 42:59
  a lie that I even be doing three for sports.
• 43:01
  It's so you, holy in manage developing the alley.
• 43:04
  Through the years, most of these kids are not in one sport, you
• 43:08
  know, you might be lucky to have one or two who are doing your
• 43:11
  sport, but the chances are, that's very, very slim.
• 43:14
  Most of the times those high school athletes are doing
• 43:16
  multi-sports. So you have to figure out how to
• 43:19
  modify the plan for them overworking.
• 43:22
  A kid is easy and how even though they're young, they feel
• 43:25
  that they're Invincible, you have to modify.
• 43:29
  How do I get these kids? Not to be overworked.
• 43:31
  And that's the biggest thing, really, I think there's a
• 43:35
  biggest Factor you have to figure out how to make a plan
• 43:38
  that works for the kids. You have the kids were coming
• 43:42
  from football. The transition is a little bit
• 43:44
  easier. We have guys who do not
• 43:45
  football, they go straight in the track, you know, that might
• 43:48
  be a little easier, but you also have a leads who are doing
• 43:51
  soccer soccer, and track season pretty much intertwined.
• 43:54
  So that's kind of very difficult to have a valley towards,
• 43:57
  probably a star soccer player, and a star soccer, trap a lead
• 44:01
  for you. You, how do you get them enough?
• 44:03
  Where when they get to you? They are conditioned in
• 44:06
  trackers, obviously some condition and truck conditioning
• 44:10
  two different condition. And, you know, so there's so
• 44:12
  much that goes into the high school level.
• 44:15
  I think, High School coaches, actually.
• 44:17
  Most of them can be better than college coaches, because you
• 44:19
  have so much. You have to consider, you know,
• 44:23
  I mean, I sitting on every day, just doing one thing, you have
• 44:25
  to consider different elements, you working with, you know?
• 44:28
  Yeah, I have a separate question, but I want to stay On
• 44:31
  that real quick, because there's a lot of code college coaches.
• 44:34
  Listening, right now that said, excuse me, I want you to defend
• 44:38
  yourself. Tell me more about why you said,
• 44:42
  High School coach might be. I'll give you the correct
• 44:44
  answer, might be that goes into it.
• 44:49
  Some of the key factors are this a high school coach?
• 44:52
  You literally has develop your a lead that you have to develop
• 44:55
  the eyelid if you get a rally going to mostly ones whose know
• 45:01
  that. Literally the coaching takes
• 45:02
  care of itself because most Big D times D1 schools.
• 45:06
  They are getting and he's running amazing times.
• 45:09
  I mean literally I forget a kid coming in.
• 45:12
  All you have to keep them healthy, make one or two
• 45:14
  adjustments and it should be good.
• 45:16
  Like that's the level that it's at right now guys.
• 45:18
  You guys going into college Durham 20-point low or 10.1.
• 45:24
  I mean those are amazing times going to college, like,
• 45:27
  literally going to college really as a big star already.
• 45:30
  I mean, And I just a little while ago, most high school
• 45:35
  athletes do not do one event or do one sport if I have Ali who's
• 45:39
  been multi-sport and they're still running those still at
• 45:43
  times if I get them for a full track season and they're not
• 45:46
  doing anything but track, they should improve it on me like
• 45:50
  even without any high-tech trainer, high-tech anything.
• 45:53
  If I get them for a full year, just track conditioning work on
• 45:58
  them thin healthy. Their bodies to not fully
• 46:01
  developed. Some of them still weak as hell
• 46:03
  that they have not lifted the much, you know, me getting some
• 46:05
  strength training, you have a good sprinting program or
• 46:09
  whatever program you have those that lead should improve.
• 46:12
  So when I say sometimes, yeah, you might have a lot of high
• 46:15
  school when you were actually better than height college
• 46:17
  coaches. Is because a high school coach,
• 46:20
  we can get a kid and develop a kid into that big Sprinter.
• 46:25
  If that same coach, could have a Natalie coming in, at those
• 46:29
  times with a whole year of Just track.
• 46:33
  I would figure that that cause could do some spectacular thing
• 46:36
  with the alley, so that's going to be something that I certainly
• 46:40
  think. If we are, you know, if there's
• 46:42
  no, I'm going to make up a number 10,000 track coaches in
• 46:45
  America College, High School Etc and we were going to rank them
• 46:48
  number one through ten thousand at who's best.
• 46:51
  Now, there's a lot of criteria for best, so we'll just say
• 46:54
  General on this. I don't think that the number
• 46:57
  one through seven thousand would all be college coaches and then
• 47:01
  And one would go down to. I agree with you that there are
• 47:04
  certainly some high school coach when I say some, that could be a
• 47:08
  huge number by the way, would be interspersed in there.
• 47:11
  For sure they're I would be, you know, I'm kind of a betting man.
• 47:15
  I would bet that if you were to list the top 100 coaches, I
• 47:19
  would be shocked if at least one, at least one was in the
• 47:23
  high school coach in there. I would bet more than that.
• 47:26
  Yes, at least 30 percent would be highest.
• 47:31
  You know, that you got it correct?
• 47:33
  Yeah. Why the president has been
• 47:34
  called. That's right.
• 47:35
  They, that is not excellent college coaches.
• 47:37
  Correct. You know?
• 47:38
  That's, that's excellent. Excellent college.
• 47:41
  Coaches as exactly. Right?
• 47:43
  And the funny thing is some of these excellent college coaches
• 47:46
  used to be High School coaches, you know, right?
• 47:49
  Yes, yes, I've said this before and I really learned it this
• 47:56
  podcast with 200 plus coaches. You know, there's this myth that
• 48:01
  a high school School coach cannot become a college coach.
• 48:03
  Like if there's a college coaching position open, just
• 48:06
  throw all the high school resumes out, I'm going to cook,
• 48:09
  you know, they just can't, they don't understand recruiting and
• 48:11
  whatever bubble bubble blower, right?
• 48:12
  They they don't understand that. You got a coach from Labor Day
• 48:16
  through June instead of just three or four months or
• 48:18
  whatever. And yet some of the top coaches
• 48:22
  that I have interviewed. I'm clue time include Mouse.
• 48:25
  Holloway, I'm calling Chris Johnson at Arkansas.
• 48:29
  Now, the ones that coach started as a high school So wait a
• 48:32
  minute, high school, we just said that hundred, I'll probably
• 48:36
  see in that hundred would have 90% who have actually done boat
• 48:40
  right here that I would say that.
• 48:42
  And so it just boggles me. It's like on one hand we say
• 48:44
  they can't coach college and said, well, I can show you a
• 48:46
  whole bunch of our awesome who started out in the high school
• 48:49
  level. So that don't that's not couple
• 48:51
  said, they don't, they don't, they don't Jive.
• 48:52
  I don't figure it out now. I think we touched on that point
• 48:55
  with that as well. Because as I mentioned before,
• 48:59
  in high school, you have to develop it.
• 49:01
  That need like you don't get them when they're just
• 49:04
  spectacular. Like you have to do some work.
• 49:06
  Yes, he might have car to Ali's for just out of this world but
• 49:10
  in high school, you have to spend some time developing an
• 49:12
  alley man, like to get them in the higher end to run certain
• 49:15
  way and me running this and not just getting up and running some
• 49:19
  of these alleys. You have to teach them how to
• 49:20
  run young. Teach them how to draw two
• 49:23
  blocks, hold a job, all these things.
• 49:25
  So if that lie, if that coach will develop guys over the past
• 49:29
  couple years, that's a lot of research.
• 49:31
  Use. So when they go to the college
• 49:34
  level, they have all this background work.
• 49:37
  That makes an excellent coaches, you know, and I know quite a few
• 49:42
  excellent coaches in college. And I know for sure that used to
• 49:44
  coach high school, you know, and, you know, I'm on a crusade
• 49:48
  to stop judgment amongst coaches in something.
• 49:52
  You said, they're kind of really drove it home for me.
• 49:56
  First of all, you talked about, you know, on the high school
• 49:58
  side, typically, you know, but depending on what State, you are
• 50:02
  things like that. You've got three months to work
• 50:04
  with these kids. They're typically doing football
• 50:06
  basketball, baseball soccer. Oh, and by the way, we all are
• 50:10
  codes, encourage athletes to do, more than one sport, especially
• 50:13
  in high school, you're right. When you get to College little
• 50:16
  less weight, less number of people, write less people are
• 50:18
  doing volleyball and track, and even football and track Etc.
• 50:21
  But in high school, I think a vast majority of college coaches
• 50:25
  would say, oh, I would encourage attract kid to play basketball
• 50:29
  soccer football. Whatever write it but then on
• 50:33
  the other hand, so we'll say that.
• 50:36
  And then on the other hand will say, gosh that coach down in
• 50:40
  Harlingen, really didn't get that.
• 50:42
  Hurdler up to speed where I need it.
• 50:45
  Like, why didn't they spend time on this and there?
• 50:48
  It's like, wait a minute. First of all, you wanted to be
• 50:51
  that kid also played basketball, which means I only had two
• 50:54
  months to have them. Yeah, you don't say it.
• 50:57
  So it's like this judgment of like I want to abolish that
• 51:00
  judgment be like, hey. That coach did.
• 51:02
  It's a job as they could. Are they coming to you
• 51:06
  underdeveloped maybe. Okay wait wait, I'll say it this
• 51:09
  way. Is that kid coming to you?
• 51:10
  Underdeveloped. Absolutely compared to the kid
• 51:13
  who does do track who has a private trainer?
• 51:16
  Whatever from 10 September through, June has a club coach
• 51:20
  whatever. Yes, certainly the kids doing
• 51:22
  track all year will come to, you more developed than that kid,
• 51:25
  who played basketball and football and then two months or,
• 51:28
  you know, two and a half months of track certainly Really.
• 51:32
  But that doesn't mean that coaches bad as I mean, that
• 51:35
  coach did a bad job that coach had too much.
• 51:38
  Some of the coaches that I respect more than anybody, our
• 51:40
  coaches up in like, Wisconsin, Wisconsin has a three-month
• 51:43
  season. The first month is under snow by
• 51:45
  the way and in the second month they actually get to do some
• 51:48
  training in the last month is all their conference sectionals
• 51:51
  Regional State they have no time.
• 51:54
  No time to develop a kid and yet some really stinking good kids.
• 52:00
  You said a lot of that. Also touch on something that I
• 52:03
  also think that it's been missing.
• 52:06
  No, because the dynamic in college coaching is becoming so
• 52:10
  businesslike. Know, it's becoming really
• 52:12
  business like that. I think a lot of coaches when
• 52:16
  they recruit are not recorded on the base of potential anymore.
• 52:20
  I think it's almost like you need to come in ready to score
• 52:24
  NCAA championships. Every time like you know, who I
• 52:27
  blame for that, you Use mine. You mentioned that you said kids
• 52:34
  are coming out of high school running 20 points and so that
• 52:42
  amalgamation of kids are going to God, meaning to make it to
• 52:45
  the 100-meter finals, or even the mile final of NCAA know of
• 52:50
  no Division, I Don't Care Division, 1 Division division,
• 52:52
  three hits nutso division three. I think the kid ran 1016 to win
• 52:57
  division. Three that kid is on 0, athletic
• 52:59
  scholarship and yet I Can I guarantee you?
• 53:02
  I can name 50 division, one school that would full ride,
• 53:05
  that kid division, 3 1016 hurdler.
• 53:08
  In division, two runs 13 flat. So it and that has to, that,
• 53:14
  that there has to be a base for that.
• 53:16
  Those kids didn't get that good, just because they went to
• 53:18
  college. They already were good good.
• 53:21
  It's the High School coaches fault.
• 53:23
  You guys collectively are doing a much better job of producing
• 53:28
  much better athletes and I do think there is Some now the
• 53:32
  world that continues to get more flat because of social media and
• 53:35
  things like that and cell phones being in everybody's hands.
• 53:38
  We're able to communicate with the rest of the world to get
• 53:42
  those recruits in here as well. So I can absolutely.
• 53:46
  I have a lot of empathy for you know, the ten or so programs on
• 53:52
  division, one that have a shot at winning the national title,
• 53:54
  there's about 10, you know, there's there's another 20 that
• 53:56
  think they can. They can there's 10 and so they
• 54:00
  get so little It'll scholarship money with an eleven point six
• 54:04
  or twelve point six. Yeah, I put on there.
• 54:06
  Yeah. And 18 on the women's side.
• 54:09
  Yes. To get a whole team Hammer.
• 54:11
  Thrower is really. So they've got to and by the way
• 54:14
  and they're all recruiting the same kid.
• 54:16
  Yeah. You know, those ten programs,
• 54:19
  they're recruiting the same kids.
• 54:21
  So they've got to figure out. How do I get that kid to this
• 54:23
  school or this school over here? And money is certainly a factor.
• 54:26
  It may not be the only Factor but it's certainly a factor in
• 54:30
  every time you give a kid Extra dollar.
• 54:32
  Well that's a very small pool. It's coming out of that means I
• 54:35
  got to get a 1020 kid to walk on or, you know, 13-7 hurdler to
• 54:39
  walk on. And so as far as development,
• 54:43
  another part that does it is the super conferences.
• 54:45
  So when I was at Mississippi State, there were 12 teams in
• 54:49
  the SEC, so we could get a using the hundred.
• 54:51
  As example, we could probably get a 1050 1055 kid on a 25
• 54:56
  percentage, you know, roughly scholarship and develop them
• 54:58
  down to a 10 2010, 10 kid, and make the finals.
• 55:01
  One day then they added Texas A&M and Mizzou and now they're
• 55:06
  adding Oklahoma and Texas. What does a 1050 kid?
• 55:11
  Do that conference? A 1050 kid doesn't make the four
• 55:14
  by one team in the conference. Now here's where I really think
• 55:19
  it's interesting when you say you blanketed, I we're going to
• 55:24
  be a little more specific that college coaches, don't want to
• 55:26
  develop first of all, and I'll also take that a little bit off
• 55:30
  the table, when Mouse Holloway A 1020 kid out of high school.
• 55:33
  He's got to develop them to attend flat kid and better just
• 55:35
  to put the final. So he's developing.
• 55:37
  Yeah. I think we'd like to blame the
• 55:40
  kids and say that the kids have a D1 or bust mentality.
• 55:44
  I think in our society we have that.
• 55:46
  So I think in general High School coaches have that a
• 55:49
  little bit and there's a little bit of ego of I sent my kid to
• 55:53
  in your, in your case in Texas, I said I sent my kid to Texas.
• 55:58
  Texas Tech Baylor vs. Hey I sent my kid to LeTourneau
• 56:02
  University. That's a great school.
• 56:05
  They're getting coaching there but no one goes.
• 56:07
  Wow! Hey, he sent someone to.
• 56:10
  You know I'm saying. So it's that bias is I think
• 56:12
  across the board is the one thing, meaning it's not just oh
• 56:23
  come on college coaches. It's also insults to say oh High
• 56:30
  School, coaches are just ego. They only want to send their
• 56:33
  kids to Texas. It's not true either.
• 56:36
  They you tell you High School coaches really want what's best
• 56:39
  for the kids and I guarantee you I just know in my heart if a kid
• 56:43
  came to you and said, hey I'm just I'm not going to Letourneau
• 56:46
  or I may go and walk-on at Texas Tech and you'd say, okay, well,
• 56:49
  what's best for you? And you say, well, you know,
• 56:51
  which one is closer to home and it's gonna cost me way less.
• 56:54
  Hey bud. Maybe that's the school.
• 56:56
  You should go too. Your ego would not say, hey, you
• 56:59
  know what, screw this kid. Let him get a bunch of student
• 57:01
  loan debt. Go to Texas, Tech where he's
• 57:03
  never gonna make a travel squat. You would do the right thing.
• 57:07
  I know you would. I know you would some time.
• 57:10
  And sometimes, I guess the business side of it.
• 57:13
  Some of these coaches, literally your coaching for your jobs as
• 57:16
  well. So we're seeing in the early to
• 57:18
  come in, almost ready to go, you know, for as long as it's not
• 57:22
  about the open, of course, I think I had this conversation
• 57:24
  with with a cold recently, as well.
• 57:29
  And he said that the according the amount of Scar should be has
• 57:32
  if he's like it's not like I'm not interested in these kids,
• 57:35
  like I want them but my hands are tired, they literally
• 57:39
  cutting the amount of scholarships I have and because
• 57:41
  of that that means from recruiting the kid that I would
• 57:44
  have recorded with you can get a small scholarship at 10 5 10 for
• 57:48
  no I can't give him a scholarship.
• 57:49
  I have to get that kid. Who is a 10-1 tend to and invest
• 57:53
  in him more than the 10 5. Knock out a wall that 10 5.
• 57:57
  Kid who was some potential, but it's just that the way the
• 58:00
  system is set up now. Coaches hands are being tired.
• 58:03
  Yeah, actually I can I can backtrack another little bit
• 58:06
  mean. It's not that if you want to
• 58:07
  coach the kids it's just that if the system is definitely
• 58:10
  changing a lot. You know, in here's the other
• 58:12
  thing, 99.99% of all these kids are not going to go pro in track
• 58:19
  and field. Okay, so if we can agree on that
• 58:24
  because you know, I get it, you know, you know, you know, I live
• 58:26
  my life on Twitter as you know, you know, I get these like all
• 58:29
  these kids want full rides. You dang, you dang, right?
• 58:33
  I think they all should get full rides.
• 58:36
  What? I mean by that is I hate student
• 58:38
  loan debt. Now, he said that hangs over
• 58:40
  yet. He dead.
• 58:41
  That you're going to get your going to spend hundreds of
• 58:43
  thousands dollars on a student loan and you're going to make 35
• 58:45
  Grand at a high school or out of college.
• 58:48
  He's gonna take you forever. It's going to EPO and Bone and a
• 58:51
  house and a marriage and family vacations and stuff like that.
• 58:54
  So to me, I think every kid now, that means they're not going to
• 58:58
  go to Arkansas Florida, Etc, on a full ride.
• 59:02
  But if Stephen F Austin or Arkansas, Baptist or whoever is
• 59:08
  going to offer you a full ride, if it has your major and it's
• 59:12
  the right, you know, the situation for your family, go in
• 59:16
  one of the things that the kids is that.
• 59:18
  For example, myself, I think example, When I came in, and I
• 59:23
  came in that, knowing that, when I came to in, am Corpus,
• 59:25
  Christi. I was thinking it's the
• 59:26
  beginning and Emmett. I was College Station.
• 59:28
  I'm like, I didn't know much about anything.
• 1:00:20
  Sent into the point of, you know, I say it's your fault.
• 1:00:23
  The high school coach of how, you know, help the rich, the
• 1:00:25
  base has gotten so much better. Guess what?
• 1:00:27
  In college, there are excellent coaches at quote, mid-major
• 1:00:32
  Division, 1 and division again, go look at ya.
• 1:00:35
  If you're, you know, I we have several athletes that watch the
• 1:00:37
  show and listen to the show as well.
• 1:00:39
  If you think you can only get coached in division 1 or just
• 1:00:43
  power 5, go right now and go. Look up the results of the
• 1:00:47
  division two national meet. Go look at the division three
• 1:00:49
  and a AIA heck Junior College. I'm a product of a junior
• 1:00:52
  college coaching. It is.
• 1:00:56
  I would be hard-pressed to believe that you would go in and
• 1:00:58
  be an All-American right off the bat at any of those places you
• 1:01:01
  might, you might. I hope so.
• 1:01:03
  Hope you're that great. But it is, if you are a national
• 1:01:06
  champion, if you're an All-American, any one of these
• 1:01:09
  divisions you are really stinking good.
• 1:01:12
  You are good. That means you are getting good
• 1:01:13
  coaching. If you can get your education
• 1:01:16
  and be paid for it the same, I'm all about all about.
• 1:01:20
  God bless that is the way to do it.
• 1:01:24
  I love these type of conversations because he did, I
• 1:01:28
  love it, but it's so important to have and sometimes we only
• 1:01:33
  have them through anonymity on social media, or we only have it
• 1:01:36
  with our buddies, or say one thing to a coach.
• 1:01:38
  But we say a little different behind their back at is so much
• 1:01:42
  is so many different things that's going on that I think,
• 1:01:44
  sometimes even the clash between the college and High School
• 1:01:48
  coaches mindset and a clock coaches - I guess.
• 1:01:50
  So the club, that's another aspect of it, you know, some
• 1:01:54
  kids and I think this is a young lady
• 1:02:20
  who was being offered a good-sized scholarship at a
• 1:02:22
  division to school. A really good division to
• 1:02:25
  school, too. By the way, like, you'd see them
• 1:02:28
  at Nationals as a team for the time, right?
• 1:02:30
  And this club coach said, no, hold off.
• 1:02:33
  You'll get an offer from division one.
• 1:02:36
  And this person was not a Division, one athlete.
• 1:02:42
  And by the time this person found out that they were not,
• 1:02:45
  you know, they weren't getting any offers the division to offer
• 1:02:48
  had made yep. Now, I think this person end up
• 1:02:51
  going to Junior College, which is great and nothing wrong with
• 1:02:56
  that, but didn't get the experience that they may have
• 1:03:00
  deserved. Because that's that's very that
• 1:03:04
  happens. Quite often terrible.
• 1:03:07
  It's creepy go. It's all ego.
• 1:03:09
  It's that it's that I sent my kid to division 1.
• 1:03:12
  Versus I said, Mike in division 2, you get props for both of
• 1:03:14
  those in my mind but sometimes we, you know, it's we care about
• 1:03:18
  what's on our Jersey or what we're getting, okay.
• 1:03:21
  What we're going to wrap up with this because I want to continue
• 1:03:23
  this conversation because I think this is a lot of value for
• 1:03:26
  those who choose to listen right now because you come from
• 1:03:30
  Jamaica and you were recruited out of Jamaica.
• 1:03:32
  I'm interested, I'm curious I never did much International, I
• 1:03:35
  did actually recruit in help recruit inside one.
• 1:03:39
  Really good to make an athlete. It would have been around your
• 1:03:41
  timeframe. Do you remember Steve Mullins?
• 1:03:44
  Well, yeah, those people is. Yeah.
• 1:03:46
  He met his run. Steve monies was my senior, I
• 1:03:49
  guess because he was class one when I was cast to.
• 1:03:53
  Yeah. And that included probably just
• 1:03:54
  a little older. Yeah, that time he was the
• 1:03:57
  fastest in Jamaica that time. He was like, yeah, I got to work
• 1:04:01
  with Stephen. Mississippi State and still one
• 1:04:03
  of the highlights. What did you know?
• 1:04:04
  I really, really like Steve and ever got his brother, Dwight ran
• 1:04:08
  from City state after I let him get to know him but Steve man I
• 1:04:12
  was named Steve taught me a lot as a coat.
• 1:04:14
  Like oh when someone at that level it's like okay, we need to
• 1:04:17
  do these things. Like really love Steve but I'm
• 1:04:20
  curious. You mentioned relationships
• 1:04:25
  recruiting into Jamaica is the culture of recruiting in
• 1:04:30
  Jamaica. Do you must say, this kind of an
• 1:04:33
  in a crude way? Do you have to have a guy like,
• 1:04:36
  do you have to know the coach at st.
• 1:04:38
  Jogo. Or like in our kids who just has
• 1:04:42
  never coached who never recruited Jamaica, just show up
• 1:04:45
  on the or just call one day to get Jamaican athletes.
• 1:04:49
  Give me. Yes, I think Jamaicans have her
• 1:04:50
  open to the recruiting process. I don't think we're so caught
• 1:04:54
  off with we're using the kid. I think the opportunity is
• 1:04:58
  something that we see. I mean an international
• 1:05:00
  considered a lot that you're getting education paid for that
• 1:05:03
  is number one that of, I mean everybody's going to mention
• 1:05:07
  already not ever. One will be a professional
• 1:05:10
  athlete. We see the value in education
• 1:05:13
  and we know that okay, if a kid is coming over here for school,
• 1:05:17
  most of the times is for education purposes.
• 1:05:19
  I mean yes. The bigger the biggest star
• 1:05:22
  athletes obviously are thinking of going pro already.
• 1:05:25
  I mean, that's just the level. We're at know.
• 1:05:27
  Where you have you seen a few of the Jamaican High School Stars
• 1:05:31
  turned Pro? Yeah, we do send a young lady.
• 1:05:33
  Okay, right. Yes, yes, yes.
• 1:05:35
  So the attorney Pearl was early so if you can turn pro, you know
• 1:05:38
  that is That's make it for you then.
• 1:05:41
  Okay. That's we want to go, but I
• 1:05:42
  think the mindset for coaches and parents and the kids back
• 1:05:47
  home is that okay, I can get my education paid for, which is
• 1:05:51
  very, very big because it means Jamaican the rich country, you
• 1:05:55
  know, and we see the value in education.
• 1:05:58
  So, I think most coaches are very open to them back with you.
• 1:06:01
  If a Coach was a call, any code in Jamaica, or get in contact
• 1:06:04
  with according to make, and they have a kid that mean might not
• 1:06:07
  be a thinly, just It and I bau-t kid or division one kid and they
• 1:06:12
  can provide a scholarship from the go to D to schools or
• 1:06:15
  whatever. I think some of that, the coach
• 1:06:17
  should be open-minded to immediately.
• 1:06:19
  And instead of eating, we're like in America, I think it's
• 1:06:22
  more on your chest to say, oh, I sent the kid to Texas Tech or am
• 1:06:27
  back home. I don't think that, that, that
• 1:06:29
  label chest exists because it's just, okay.
• 1:06:32
  He went to college for, he went America for college that that
• 1:06:35
  big enough. Yeah, that's me.
• 1:06:39
  To your point about what we talked about earlier in the
• 1:06:41
  conversation about how you grew up in Jamaica to we don't in
• 1:06:44
  Jamaica, we don't have football and baseball in professional, so
• 1:06:49
  we don't grow up, we may grow up in Jamaica still a Bears fan or
• 1:06:53
  something like that, but it's not like here where, you know,
• 1:06:55
  my dad was a Bears fan and what, you know, that culture and you
• 1:06:59
  don't maybe have a lot of. Do we have American football in
• 1:07:03
  Jamaica like in high school so I don't know if we watch it means
• 1:07:07
  I think kids are I mean the world is becoming more Global
• 1:07:10
  and it's getting everybody sees everything in your phone.
• 1:07:13
  So I think hopefully sport. Football itself has grown
• 1:07:16
  American football has grown Sokka is do a number on
• 1:07:19
  football. There are there other teams at
• 1:07:21
  the high school level in? Jamaica for football.
• 1:07:24
  No, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right now I think check probably
• 1:07:56
  checks right in the middle between cricket and sacrifice
• 1:07:59
  them 01. I mean I think soccer is one of
• 1:08:01
  the biggest ports in Jamaica. Plain soccer has always been big
• 1:08:05
  Cricket is also big to, but that's why he suckered track map
• 1:08:08
  in number two. Wow, it might be a battle of 12
• 1:08:12
  soccer in America like we're 10th.
• 1:08:16
  So we'll take a tie or fight for second, we're football.
• 1:08:20
  Baseball basketball. Yes.
• 1:08:22
  Place the Quran so much. Thank you so much of this
• 1:08:43
  conversation today you know your journey is so fascinating you
• 1:08:47
  know it's interesting to me we had Brooke Resnick on the
• 1:08:51
  podcast about a And ago and she mentioned where she grew up and
• 1:08:55
  where she went to college was 30 minutes away and when she went
• 1:08:57
  to college, she was homesick and I can appreciate that.
• 1:09:00
  I can appreciate that. You know, when we talk like you
• 1:09:04
  whose That was no, my first time here
• 1:09:18
  actually went through Pain. Release him the families in high
• 1:09:21
  school. Sure that's was my second time
• 1:09:24
  coming to America and I mean the first time state in America like
• 1:09:27
  that but again in him Corpus Christi is way down there as
• 1:09:30
  well. I mean literally have no family,
• 1:09:34
  no friends. Yeah let me dynamics of the
• 1:09:37
  campus was not very, I don't mean the black population was in
• 1:09:40
  the locker. It's grown over the years and
• 1:09:43
  mostly black kids were at Leeds. So again, it's the Amex coming
• 1:09:47
  to a country. No, no, no, buddy.
• 1:09:48
  No family members crazy. So, yeah, I mean, obviously they
• 1:09:52
  needed was a welcoming environment do so that
• 1:09:54
  immediately. Yeah, but when I can, I can
• 1:09:58
  respect that if you go there it's like
• 1:10:11
  everybody's a stranger. Got to figure out who is going
• 1:10:14
  to be, you know, in the circle. That ain't just an automatic.
• 1:10:17
  So, so I can appreciate that, man.
• 1:10:19
  I really can't. That's to me.
• 1:10:20
  That's really honestly, that's super Brave honestly because
• 1:10:24
  we're also talking about. This is a 17 18 year old kid, by
• 1:10:27
  the way, not as a 30 year old adult, you're still forming, you
• 1:10:31
  know, who you are and your brain still growing, so I can really
• 1:10:34
  appreciate that. And for those who have same
• 1:10:38
  thing, I have kids here at school who are like, I'm not
• 1:10:40
  going to move towards away from home and Mom.
• 1:10:48
  And the mindset, that's also hinder in mind that a lot of
• 1:10:52
  kids have some kids get full scholarships and will not leave.
• 1:10:56
  You're not Eve. So it's, it's amazing how small
• 1:11:00
  the world is becoming and yet it can still be two hours can be,
• 1:11:04
  you know, a life taken away. Well thank you so much for your
• 1:11:08
  journey and thank you for really a fun.
• 1:11:11
  I think a lot of value conversation and recruiting man
• 1:11:14
  I again you've got it. You see it from both sides and
• 1:11:17
  you've been in the college side where you've recruited, you've
• 1:11:19
  been recruited. Now, you're in the high school
• 1:11:21
  side where you're seeing kids, and helping kids get recruited
• 1:11:24
  and and all different levels. And so I think there's a lot of
• 1:11:27
  value. There's still a lot of it's
• 1:11:28
  weird. There's still a lot of mystery
• 1:11:30
  around recruiting I think because it's so, it's not
• 1:11:33
  regimented, it's not like oh if you run this time, you get this
• 1:11:35
  much, it's very subjective. I think is the right word.
• 1:11:39
  It's only about it as well at No, it's really need space.
• 1:11:45
  Like, I mean, you have a coach who might need a thorough, is
• 1:11:47
  feel events is low, you have enough sprinters, you might be
• 1:11:50
  great Sprinter but they don't have the money for you right
• 1:11:53
  now. And I mean, like it's it's very
• 1:11:55
  it's the other part to it. That's exactly right.
• 1:11:59
  A school says, you know what, we don't have facilities for throw
• 1:12:01
  so we don't We're not gonna have any throws and take me and I
• 1:12:04
  could be so good for them. It's like, yes, not the place
• 1:12:06
  for you, you know, it's just this is not, it doesn't have
• 1:12:09
  anything to do with you kid, that doesn't happen.
• 1:12:11
  Now it's just, this is not the right place.
• 1:12:14
  Well, thank you so much, man. This was a lot of fun.
• 1:12:17
  I'm just so grateful grateful. You know, you stepped up and a
• 1:12:20
  last-second to help us out here in the public came up here.
• 1:12:23
  And she said me to Twitter. The Twitter thing?
• 1:12:26
  She follows you a lot Tiffany Nuvi.
• 1:12:29
  Yeah, yeah, she follows love Sports World and she's like, you
• 1:12:34
  should jump on that podcast and I cool.
• 1:12:36
  No problem. Well sure.
• 1:12:42
  Conversation because of you Tiffany and I think people are
• 1:12:44
  better for it, so really do appreciate.
• 1:12:45
  Thank you guys. For follow me on Twitter, I have
• 1:12:47
  a lot of fun there. Hopefully, bringing you guys a
• 1:12:49
  lot of value there. So, thank you for being on the
• 1:12:51
  show this week, man, I'm really grateful for you.
• 1:12:54
  He, she it and thank you for being here listening.
• 1:12:57
  Again, you know, we're gonna have a lot of fun with this.
• 1:12:59
  You know, we're going to explore Journeys from High School,
• 1:13:01
  coaches college, coaches, and everything in between.
• 1:13:04
  And I think, you know, we continue to work to bring value
• 1:13:07
  for you the listeners whether it's recruiting Captain's ship.
• 1:13:11
  Chip the, the, the the work of being a coach, and how you time
• 1:13:16
  management, we're going to continue exploring those
• 1:13:18
  conversation. And sometimes it's going to get
• 1:13:19
  a little heated, that's okay. Because having those
• 1:13:22
  conversations and being open and honest and authentic and still
• 1:13:25
  walking away as good friends. I think that's what brings a lot
• 1:13:28
  of value. So, thanks for being here this
• 1:13:29
  week. Join us next week, we'll do it
• 1:13:31
  all over again. Right here on the Gill track and
• 1:13:33
  field connections podcast. Have a good week, everybody.