Latest / The Efficient Advisor: Tactical Business Advice for Financial Planners / 152: Free to Fee—How to Start Charging for Planning, Even in a BD World w/ Bryan Jansen

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152: Free to Fee—How to Start Charging for Planning, Even in a BD World w/ Bryan Jansen · The Efficient Advisor: Tactical Business Advice for Financial Planners

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: At face value, charging a fee for financial planning.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: It seems so, so easy, but if you've been in the business for a while, there is or maybe if you haven't been in the business while there's just a lot of head trash around this, and I hear it from advisors pretty much on the daily.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: So today we're gonna dive into that transition, on what it's like to move from planning for free to planning for a fee.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Even if you're with a broker dealer or if you're brand spanking new to the business and you've got some of that head trash around charging a fee for something that you really don't feel like.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: You know what you're doing all that well, just yet.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Today's guest, brian Janssen.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: He is the guy he currently works for the same broker dealer that I was with and he has successfully transitioned what I would call a mature practice that he had been at for a while from one of having to demonstrate value first for free and then asking for the sale, to a style of doing business where he established a relationship with the clients and he charges them a fee for it from the get go.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: So in this episode we dive into overcoming objections, dealing with that imposter syndrome.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: How do we transition clients that are existing clients that have been doing business with us for free to fee based planning clients.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: We get into how he prices his offer and some of the mistakes that he made and how he has corrected those, and we talk about kind of what it looks like from the first year to the second year and sort of price drops and pricing considerations and what to do and what not to do is.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: So, without further delay, let's dive into charging a fee for your financial planning.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Let's go what's up.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I've had a lot of coffee today, so I am super excited about this episode.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: And look, I know you're here because you know it is possible to have energy leftover for your family and still have your dream business, the business that you are running, instead of it running you.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: If you're new to the Efficient Advisor, welcome.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I'm Libby Graywee and I'm yep, I'm usually this caffeinated.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I started from scratch, built and sold by age 37, a 100% referral-only planning practice that I grew to seven figures as a solo advisor, all while working just three days a week and taking off 14 weeks a year to lean into being a mom, a wife, a friend, a sister, a daughter and, frankly, a travel obsessed human who just loves taking vacations, and I'm here to walk alongside you and to show you how to do exactly the same thing and to help you take immediate action on the most important strategies for scaling, organizing and creating less stress and overwhelm in your business.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: We are about to transform your practice, so move over exhaustion and get out of the way.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Advisor ADD.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: It is time to take that one right next step to build a business and a life that you love, and I think you will be super inspired by this conversation with Brian to do exactly just that.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: All right, brian, I'm excited to dive into this conversation.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I shared with you that literally every single day, I have a conversation with an advisor about charging a fee for planning, and especially advisors who, like you and I, were with broker dealers or you are with a broker dealer kind of moving from that idea of doing planning for clients for free for years and years and years as a way of kind of proving your value or kind of wooing, or this sort of idea of I have to show them what I'm capable of before I can ask for money or before I can ask for business, or before they'll give me money or give me business and you have just been.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: You've kind of become known as the guy when it comes to moving from planning for free to planning for a fee, even within a broker dealership, so I'm really really excited to dig into this conversation.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: So thank you so so much for being here.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to be here, happy to share and hopefully there's something useful for anybody who's listening.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, I don't doubt that there will be.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: So share with us, if you will, sort of what was your journey and what was sort of that inflection point that made you say, aha, I need to start charging for the work that I am doing.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: The short version is started the process in around 2013, 2014.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: So it's been a minute and really trying to figure out how to serve the people that looked like me at that point was where I ran into a problem.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: So we could spend a lot of time with people who are pre-retirement.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: There was lots of complicated fun to figure out and I was really trying to solve how to work with the young up and coming person the young couple, young entrepreneur and kind of fell upon the actually the XYPN network back in about 2014.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: And built this model to charge a fee for advice within kind of a fee-based planning option within RBD, and that was really where it started and had a game plan set, literally.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I can remember this like it was yesterday.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: I was sitting down in 2014 with someone I knew and trusted about the transition and he said to me wow, Brian, you look really trim, You're working out really well.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: I can't believe how amazing you look.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: About a month later, I was diagnosed with blood cancer and that was, I guess, what I'll say.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: The biggest blessing I thought was a curse in my life was that gift of cancer, Because that was the inflection point for me, Libby, that really led to my move to providing a product, providing managing money, to providing a relationship that was focused on the implementation of advice.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, so thank you for sharing that.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: I know that always it has to kind of evoke some emotion inside of you.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I know it does for me.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: So being diagnosed with cancer and then all the things you just said, what about that really made you go all in on moving from the free to fee?
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: I think it really made me assess how I use my time and who I spend my time with.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Anytime I'm sitting in a meeting, as you get to know me, I am all in with a relationship.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: If you get to know me, you're spending time with me.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: I am 100% a relationship guy and I need to know it all so I can help make sure I know how it fits right.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: And what I was realizing was the way I was running the business before.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: The majority of the time, when I was seeing a cross from somebody, I was investing my time with them and literally running a negative.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: I was losing money, and the way I always try to picture it helped me formulate what I call my profitability adjusted burn rate.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: That was the moment where I said what does it cost for me to run the business so that I can be in front of these people and make sure that my attention is focused on what's best for them, as opposed to what'll get me paid, what'll help me do the right thing or take away my attention?
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Even worse, because I know it's not a profitable relationship it impacts what I did and the quality of the time I spent.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: So essentially it just helped me.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: The inflection point was I realized I'm spending a lot of time with people and I was choosing to make that person or that couple or that individual a charity, because they were literally costing me money and I wanted to find a way to create a model that allowed me to run it like a successful entrepreneur.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: So it's profitable, so it takes away what I call any kind of sincentive Minimizing.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Those is super important for me.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: So we talk about client service model and establishing what is your hourly rate and understanding what it is that you're pouring into your clients and not that you.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: So it's funny because whenever I do that exercise with people, they'll we draw like kind of a line right, and so here are the people that you're working for kind of below the desired hourly rate, and there's this natural instinct from people to wanna just like draw this big red line and say, okay, we're deleting everybody underneath there.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you don't wanna do that.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, yes, but let's go through them and kind of look for certain people or centers of influence or people with potential business.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Like cause, I'll always have someone who was, well, I was going through the list and my grandma was there and I'm like, well, don't send your grandma to the corporate advice center.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Like, you can have these charities.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: You can have these clients that aren't profitable because you love them, they believed in you, their family, their, your pastor, their centers of influence.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: They're leaving their job in a few years and have it.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, you can have that, but you need to understand how many of them you can actually afford to carry and how many of those you can actually afford to have in your book without it starting to chip away at your time, your energy, your focus, and really how much will it chip into your profitability too?
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: So I'm really, really glad that you said that.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: I like how you call it charities of choice as opposed to just like charities and I always ask people when we're coaching I'll say do you run a charity, a hobby or a business?
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: We approach all three in a very, very different way.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: So, okay, so you had this diagnosis.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: You were like, okay, I am going to be really picky and choosy about how I'm spending my time moving forward.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about because I know every advisor who is wanting to start charging a fee has a lot of fear and a lot of imposter syndrome surrounding like that I haven't been doing that and now I'm going to be doing that.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: So can you kind of share what that shift looked like for you mentally and then maybe even some of the language or the way that you approached it with clients whom you you know, whether it's prospect or existing clients, and maybe we'll talk about both, but kind of let language shift of like, hey, I hadn't been doing it that way and now this is the way that we're going to be doing it, moving forward and here's why, without it feeling salesy, sleazy or cheap.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a lot to unpack to you, to where you want to get to there, I'd say um.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: So thank you for the robustness of the lead in here.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: That was a seven part question, Just like wow.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: I was with the seven steps of running a financial advice to practice, um, so the things that we're going to, I guess I'd focus on one it started with.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: So the imposter thing is real, right, we all are human.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: We all have that.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: It's real for all of us, no matter how successful.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: However, you define success, right?
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Um, for me it started with the common principles of looking at the book, what's a Pareto principle?
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Looking at the revenue from that top 20%.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: That was the first thing I started with.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Then I looked at what you just kind of alluded to who are the people that just bring me joy, right?
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Regardless of profit?
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Were there people that just bring me joy?
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Cause that is a whole different kind of relationship, currency that brings you energy and value.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Then, at that point, I started to assess what I call the burn rate, right?
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: So what does it cost to run the business?
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: And the thing I always picture cause I'm a visual guy, libby, I'm super visual it's like I pictured standing up, like I'm standing right now talking to you and there's a little hole in my pocket and literally every moment I've got a little coin dripping out of that pocket Just to stay in business.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: That visual helped me really start to think about the business as like a business owner, as the CEO, as opposed to like just this sales guy who's selling myself Right.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Those things really kind of were the starting point that helped me start to identify what it was I need to charge to make sure I'm profitable and I'm able to focus my time in a way that if we're sitting down, libby, and we're working together, you know you're getting my best.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Then what I did from there that really will help me get past the imposter thing like 100%, was I picked 10 of my existing clients.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: The part that maybe we need to talk about it's that I made this transition About 12 years into my career.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: I wasn't a noob, I wasn't just starting.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: It wasn't like an easy thing.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: I had to go through this shift of hey, client, here was this way, now here's this way Game on, let's do this.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: So what I did was I picked 10 client households and I met with them.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: This is in the late fall, early winter of 2017.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: And I sat down with them and explained what I was thinking, and one of the language things I remember talking about was I used to run this business in a way that I was the most important part of the team and I didn't realize how irresponsible that was until I almost died.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: My cancer diagnosis helped me realize how irresponsible I was being as a mid 30 something running a business that made me the most important part.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: So, client, I want to make sure that we designed the business so that it is evergreen.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: You can rely on it whether I'm healthy or not, because whether I like it or not, I had this scary thing happen.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: I need to make sure you're going to be okay and I also want to make sure that the business is profitable so that you can remain confident in us moving forward.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: So those relationship conversations with some of that language sprinkled in, gave me the feedback I needed, because 10 out of 10 households and individuals in households, there was a few sprinkled in individuals.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: There too we're like oh my gosh, yes, why didn't you do it that way before?
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: So that was kind of like the thing that I needed to get to get past my imposter syndrome was deciding confidently why, going into those meetings with those clients that I handpicked purposefully they weren't all just like your favorite clients.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I threw in a few people that were tough on purpose and that gave me the ultimate confidence to set my pricing and change it, literally January 2018.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: I went every meeting I had, I presented how I'm changing the structure and way more people said yes than I expected, cause my next step was that I chose the people below the profitability line to present it to, first thinking they would fire me.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Right, oh, they're going to say no.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: They said yes and thus created my service model problem of having to grow the team a little faster than I wanted to.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: It's always funny, cause whenever something really positive like that happens, right, people say like well, I mean, everyone said yes and it's like that's a really really good thing and it's like it's a problem.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: It could be a good problem, but it's still a problem.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, amen, I love that Okay.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: So the, so the mindset, so really the process was getting really solid on your.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Why handpicking a couple of clients easy all the way through Some of your your P does a little bit tougher conversations and starting to have that conversation and then really drawing a line in the sand, it sounds like, and saying, okay, from this point forward, this is just how we're doing things.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: And I would imagine, without knowing your book inside and out, that the number of clients saying yes, that were kind of below that profitability margin that now, all of a sudden, we're shifted way up into the profit margin, far exceeded the number of people who said no and the profit that we lost from working with them in that type of relationship.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: And so, even though you, you went hard, a hard line, and said this is how we're doing it moving forward, I'm going to imagine that your profitability went way up.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, I love that.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: What was the original?
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Do you mind sharing what kind of fee you started charging at that point?
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, initial offering was a three tiered structure based on complexity, and it was $1,200, $1,800 and $2,400 per year.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: All of the agreements I set up at the time and that still is the case we're all annual agreements billed monthly, so that there was lots of reasons behind that.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: But again, tying into what I call fee consistency, so that I could run the business, I wanted the fees to come in similar to when my bills came in, so I wasn't Sincentivized again to try to do something I shouldn't do.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: I was trying to do something that I shouldn't do, but that was what it looked like when I first started in January 2018.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, so what was harder for you?
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Was it harder to take existing clients that you had been working with for the previous 12 years and convert them to a fee based client?
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Or was it more challenging for you to start charging prospects?
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: It's so hard.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: You didn't value, didn't like have that.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Oh hey, brian's amazing and he has all this attention to detail.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: This is like the first time I've ever met you and now I'm asking you for a lot of money.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the the people.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I think the answer you'd expect is the existing.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Right, that's what I expected, but it wasn't the case.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: The conversion rates have been really identical when it comes to prospects versus existing and I kind of, to be honest, I stopped tracking the internal conversions of clients that were not paying a fee to paying for an advice fee based plan agreement.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: But the first year it was somewhere between 75 and 80% said yes and I was like I'm not going to be paying for that, I'm not paying for that, I'm not paying for that.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: So the first year it was somewhere between 75 and 80% said yes and I was planning for closer to 50 of those targeted clients that I thought would fire me, fire us.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: So conversion rates have really floated somewhere between 70 and 90, whether it's prospect or internal.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: So there hasn't been a big discrepancy for me.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: I will say, to quote some other people, that we hear a lot talk like I want to sized, sized deals where I wasn't and just want to stay on that as a付 to say, buy, because that's my experience personally.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Well, I noticed it happened, actually didn't, because there's that.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, this is also going to be easier because right.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: So, like I know I'm completely contradicting myself, but this is that, this is the like mind games that we play with ourselves.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: But like, okay, well, they know how much attention we pay to detail, like they know how genuine we are, they know the level of the quality and the you know, brett, and the depth of planning that we do, so it maybe it's easier to switch an existing client, because and then we started off like crazy low, I mean I think we started charging like 750 for plans and we were immediately like, okay, that's a terrible.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I mean that's better than nothing.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: So, yay for me.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Then it was like, okay, I'm just going to creep it up a little bit more, and then creep it up a little bit more, and it was like a slow, painful, because that's like how I choose to do things sometimes.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: And.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: I actually think I had more head trash around prospects because of the way that I had been planning for the 1415 years prior was okay, you give us all your stuff, we razzle, dazzle, we put it on the software, we do the whole planning process and we impress you to the point where you'll want to implement and do business with us.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: And I think I actually had more head trash around the prospect side of it.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Even though it's like they don't know me, I could just tell them whatever dollar amount of confidence and they would just assume that's what I charge everybody.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: But I think I actually struggled more with with the prospects as well.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: But I think it's because just it was that shift of like well, I have to prove myself, I have to do all of these things first Before people will do business with me, with me.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: But it's, it's just simply not true.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: It's really just a matter of ripping off the band aid and giving it a go.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I really agree.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I think, again, going into philosophically with strength help me a lot where the idea of this is something else, like things that can help.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Other people were debating or deciding how to handle this.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: It's ultimately the final decision point was after I identified the what I called the profitability adjusted burn rate.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: I probably should comment on that, just because it's a different viewpoint.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: I think that I've heard I'm designing that number and I did.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: I did bring it down to a per hour kind of concept.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: That's how I like to see it, and what I did was I decided what is the cost to run the business, including paying myself after tax and then adjusting for future growth, because the part I did miscalculate for sure was how much I'd have to grow the team to keep up with the demand.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Because people said, yes.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: So while I follow book knowledge and name your book that we probably all read and kind of followed a, you know, say, a 30% kind of margin kind of goal, it wasn't quite enough and so I definitely undercharged For sure.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: No, no question.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: But the peeling from that, the philosophical part that's so important to share, is that what helped me go at it with confidence was to think through and picture that any minute I'm spending with somebody that is not above that line is literally a charity that I'm choosing over my family.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: I'm choosing over for me a blood cancer survivor.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I could be donating that time and money to leukemia and lymphoma society to solve cancer.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: For somebody else it's more important than my church and organizations important to me.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: That was the moment that I needed to think through.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: That gave me the confidence that said nope, there's no turning back.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: This is the way.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: But for me to kind of build in some forgiveness for me, I had to build in that tie to my time.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: I had to design that time that I could choose to charitably share my time with people that need help, just so I didn't feel like a total mean insert your nasty word right.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: So that was important for me.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: All those things tying together were immensely important for me to make the decision to be as strong as I am, where I will only work with you now if you pay a fee for advice.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: I wanna make sure that we can work the best way and then helps me ensure I can do all of the things and do them well, right.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I absolutely love that.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: I love this idea and things really clicked for me I think in my business too and it was like everything is a choice, like literally everything that I'm doing all day is a choice.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: There's very few things that you do on autopilot, but it's being intentional about those choices and how you sound it.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: I love how you position it, as me doing this Cause like oh, what's putting 10, 15 hours into a plan?
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: What's, oh you know like?
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: But when you put that over, that's 10 or 15 hours that I'm not spending with my kids or my spouse or doing things for my friends and family and other relationships.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I love all of that.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about kind of coming back to some of that like head trashy kind of stuff.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Did you initially, when you started charging fees, did you charge the same amount in year two?
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Cause I see advisors all the time say, okay, so year one is like the big setup, right, we got to get all the stuff, we got to get all put into the software.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: It's going to be a lot, blah, blah, blah, harder, harder, harder.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to charge more and then I'm going to drop my fee in subsequent years because it seems like it should be easier moving forward Was that?
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Have you tinkered with that?
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Did you charge a fee and just kind of like, go with it?
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Have you increased fees?
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: What does your fee history look like now, since 2017?
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a fun one, so I love it actually.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: So I would say I am definitely against the increase fee year one, reducing fee year two.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I am 100% in favor for you Choose the fee based on complexity, you stick with that fee, and I'll talk about my history in a minute.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: That's how I do it.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: I do not believe in that, and the reason why I think this is the part I want to make sure that you get to hear Libby it's that the plan isn't the thing.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: The thing is not the plan right, the thing is the relationship that allows successful implementation of the advice.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: So for me, that was the key thing that I needed to say out loud and believe one.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: To believe my pricing because, yes, there is more front end time invested to build things into, name your tool, into the initial research, but to do the thing it's a constantly moving target right.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Every year there's some new thing to solve for a client because they're alive, they're human, right, nothing's the same.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: So that's something I want to make loud and clear.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Price does not go down.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: It is what it is.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: That's a UPAY based on complexity, and where it's grown from there is it was too low.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Right, I was afraid I'd show something.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Safe Fee ranges are not drastically increased, like my minimum fee now, and we have to use ranges right Just to make sure we're doing it appropriately.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: But the low end now is 2,400, 3,000.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Right, the mid tier is 3,000 to 4,000.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: And the top tier is 5,000 to 6,000.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Just keep it really simple.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: So essentially, they've a little more than doubled from where I started in you know what five years of time, just because I have got it closer to correct to make sure I stay above so that if they don't do anything on the implementation side through me that can benefit me, I'm still profitable, I still love them, I still am eliminating that that's incentive, that negativity that can lead me to something, even if I don't realize it.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, I love that.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: So the fee has doubled.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Is that for existing clients that started off at that $1,200 rate, or is that just for new clients coming in?
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, and that's another lesson I learned via mistake.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: I believe in relationships, so I do a series of events each year and I guess I didn't think that clients would talk about fees.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: That's about something more interesting.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: But I learned the hard way that clients talk about fees and where I learned I needed to make this shift with everybody was when one of my favorite clients told another one of my favorite clients that what they're paying for fee and it was not the same.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: And they're similar complexity, similar situation, and it was because they were off in cycles.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: The intention was to move them right.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: But yes, so I have moved all people up the fee schedule at this point, not just new, also existing.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, so what are some of the other benefits that you would say have come out of charging fees for your financial plans?
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Because I am fully thinking about what is best for them.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: We're opening our eyes to things we never would have thought about before, right?
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: So an example would be like we really kind of didn't try much about caring about like legal documents and how they get those in place and whether they should do a will versus to transfer on that deed or HSAs.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Are we counting for the match they get in what we tell them to contribute to and whether they what I call grow it or show it right.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Do they cash flow it, grow it?
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: We think about those things now because I'm not concerned about my time to the level of what I spent my time on, like I was when I was only getting paid to manage assets or to sell the product.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: So it's really opened my eyes to ideas.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: I kind of just kind of waved off like, ah, it's gonna take a lot of time.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna talk about that.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Heck.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: You think about like Roth conversion strategy, right, talk about a tricky scenario for advisors, because if you're AUM only and you're charging people based on the amount of assets and you're convincing them to convert to Roth and pay tax on the conversion, you're literally doing an uphill thing and losing money at the same time.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: So talk about like an issue, a sense incentive.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: You know why would we talk about that?
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: You know it's those things.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: So the elimination of all those kinds of hangups were one of the biggest advantages that came for me.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: The secondary one really is that, as a business owner, growing a business, charging an advice agreement fee that is billed monthly helped me have confidence in growing the business and making the hire because I could count on certain levels of revenue as long as I maintain a good relationship.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: So just a few other things that come to mind quickly.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so for your fees, do you typically and I have like other things I wanna add to that well, but I wanna ask a question before I forget it With your fees, are they paying out of pocket, like monthly deduction from their checking account, or are they mostly coming from products that you manage?
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: By requirement.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: It's coming from a checking account, preferably whatever their lowest yielding asset is, so we can improve their total return on the portfolio.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: So I want the fee coming out of their demand deposit account Now.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: In a few instances we'll set up a third party like savings bucket that's yielding more and keep even less in checking so again to whatever we can do to boost their total return.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: But you know we do not want it coming from their portfolio because that asset is being asked to perform at a higher level, so we don't wanna strip money away from there.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: So when times are tight or we see these recessions or let's talk COVID when everybody's kind of tightening up their belt buckle, one of the concerns that advisors have is okay, well, if they're paying this monthly thing, they're gonna be looking at like okay, I'm paying for Netflix, I'm paying, like here's all my monthly deductions and oh, my gosh this financial planning fee.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Can we take a break from that?
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Have you had to have any of those conversations?
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: What does that look like?
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Is there attrition during down markets?
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Let's talk me through what that has looked like for you and how you've overcome that.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say absolutely.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: We've heard those conversations, so they have absolutely happened.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: And the way I lead those relationships with clients.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: When those moments happen, I say when you have a relationship with something that you don't value, we want it to end because I don't want to be in a relationship with you if you don't value me.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: I start with that language because I absolutely don't want to work with someone that doesn't think I'm worth the investment, regardless of the circumstances.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: So I start by empowering them to make that decision and simply ask them that question of do you value me at $3,600 per year?
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: If you don't, well then we're probably not the right fit.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: So those are how I handle those conversations at the when they do occur.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: They have not happened.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Often, honestly, libby, it has been something that's relatively rare, but they have occurred and that's where I lead.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Very few people have ended their relationship with us outside of a death right.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: It's very few and far between, and I do believe a lot of that comes down to not just my charm and circumstance.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Well, clearly that's a big piece of it though I'm very clear about like the value right.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: That's important to me that no one wants to be in a relationship they're not valued no one.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely Okay, so I love that.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Did you find yourself in those conversations because I know you're a really sweet, caring person wanting to say things like oh well, maybe we can reduce it, or what if we took like a six month break and then you can't like, did you find yourself having to fight that?
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there was a few tug strings here and there that I had to really resist that idea, but I did resist.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: So, yes, absolutely again, human, I'm human, I love people, I want to help them.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Is it helping somebody when you throw them to the curb?
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: You know, if they reject you like that's why I tried to put it in their court right, you decide if it's worth it.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: If it's not, I'm going to help you.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Go somewhere else that will serve you without a fee.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: But then again, as you and I all know, there's always a fee.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: We're always getting paid somehow.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: The question is, is it in integrity?
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: sometimes, that's a thing as a free lunch right.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: You all want to be profitable and successful because you're only helpful to those clients if you stay in business.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, I love that.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: So no price drops.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Your fee has increased.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Tell us about the conversations you've had with clients who okay, so we started off at $1,200 a year.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Now I'm paying $2,400 a year.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Walk me through what your fee increase conversation looks like.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, the fun one, right, Right, everyone loves this one.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: It's all around like we're trying to derive a business here that can support you beyond me because I like you and a human being and I may not be here tomorrow I certainly work my best to stay alive and be able to help you with everything you need to do.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: As we've crafted the game plan for the next X number of years.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I usually talk about three, five, 10 year kind of components here to just keep it reasonable, but not too short, that it's too short-sighted.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: We've realized that to make sure we maintain profitability at the level that will keep us supporting you and caring to invest in you the way we are now, we need to raise the fee to this level.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Here is one that will occur.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: I normally have the conversation, Libby, at least six months before the end of the renewal date for the contract.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: We have annual agreements, right, so I try to give them six months time to really assess if we're worth it.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: But it's all in the spirit of we want you to be confident in your investment in us, that we're not just a one night stand.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: We are here for long-term to support you in a relationship around implementing advice.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: This is the fee we need to charge to make sure it maintains that way.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I think, I think really you can frame anything, as long as you're putting it at the client, at the center of it and then ultimately giving them the option to decide like you can continue forward or you, you can.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: You know, we can part ways and you can.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: You can go, do and find something far less superior, you know, than that's of course.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Sure yeah of course, but I think, as long as you're putting the client at the center and putting yourself in there, she's saying how would I want to hear this information, what would resonate with me, what would make me feel good about it?
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Because I could tell I so, like wordsmithing is one of my favorite hobbies Like I can make just about anything sound really, really, really kind and wonderful.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: It's a, it's a gift, it's a gift.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: But you know, I always am trying to think like well, how would I, how would I feel if someone were saying this to me and what would the options be that I would want to have, and what would make me more inclined to say, oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense versus you know, so I have some advisors who come at something and I'll be like, wow, that sounds very much about you and your business.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Like no, but it's not about you making more money.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: It's like how do we put this in the clients?
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: You know, how do we come at this?
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: From the client's best interest, of the client's ankle, and I think you probably just do that naturally.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: So, so well, what's funny, because one thing I want to say about that is that you know it's.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: It's like I want to win your wordsmithing, because that is something I'm pretty good at too.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: I've been told that like it's not like.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm good wordsmith.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: I've been told I'm good with words, right.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: But part of the thing is I always think about you don't want it to sound too too good, right, cause then it sounds inhuman.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't sound like.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: It sounds like deception, right.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: How do we avoid deception?
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: So I always try to.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: That's why I layer in words like we need to maintain profitability, but at a level that maintains that we stay in business to create a relationship that's centered on implementation of advice, right.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: So throw in that little bit of a.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: I use this in my connect meetings too, kind of like a golden line, right, where I don't get in a data collection.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: And connect meetings I don't get into any of that stuff.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: It's all about identifying the problem.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: What are they?
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: Why are they here, right?
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: What, what, what put them in the mode to go to the pain and the shame of meeting with a financial person, because so many people carry so much shame around money, right?
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: So I always try to throw a golden line out, and it's the opposite.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: When it comes to, like, talking about the business, what's the negative line?
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: What's the South Star versus the North Star?
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: I love the idea of South Star, that's one of my going principles.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: But, like what's the South Star, the thing that is not what they want to hear, let's say that will help you, them see that you are human and they can trust you more because of that reality.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: It's just interesting.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, yeah, I know you're absolutely right.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Can't be like oh, schmoozy, sleazy sounds together.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Here's why it's good for you to pay me more money.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Right yeah.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: I love that, yeah, so there has to be logic behind it and something that feels real and not not.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, perfect.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: So for new advisors or I shouldn't say new advisors, for even some of us old, seasoned folks that's have been doing it a while they're going.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, I know I need to be making this shift what if you could kind of lay out a few steps, like what would be the first thing that you would suggest to any advisor who's just kind of even contemplating like, hey, I should be charging fees.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Or I know some of the big BDs, like Ed Jones, is really working towards a fee based platform and they're gearing up for that and all of the advisors at Jones are going, but our clients have never paid for that.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what would be, some of the things that you would suggest as far as like.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Here's how you can lay this out justify your fee, feel good about the work that you're doing, kind of put some mold it into a way that makes sense.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Yep, I think you have to start with knowing yourself, like when you picture.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: That's where I started.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: What is the business you want to run?
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: What do you want to be doing in your time with clients?
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Are you the sexy portfolio guy or gal that's just telling what to do with this particular percentage and why?
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: And this new fund and this new ETF Is that what you love to do?
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: That's one model.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: Or are you a different model?
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Are you the guy that loves to get a guy?
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: I'm a guy.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking the guy perspective.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Are you the human right that loves to do this thing or that thing?
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Assess who you are.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Where do you find you're in your zone when you're in a client meeting?
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: What is the part that makes you just feel like you belong?
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: That's, I think, phase one, because there is a place for all these models.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Currently, there's a lot of talk of fear, of death of this, death of this.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of room to operate the way you want to operate.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: I know for me, what I decided first that was step one was the relationship component was important to me.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: I had to be in a relationship with a client and it had to be all encompassing.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Like all encompassing.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: My meetings tend to go down the path of, like almost therapy.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Right, there's a level of that that I love, because it helps me help them reveal who they are to themselves, because most of us don't take the time to think about that stuff, so until you challenge them with good questions or thoughtful thoughts, they're not going to think about it.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: It's in a time where I'll run 100 miles per hour.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: So step one to me is knowing yourself where you want to go.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: The second thing, then, is knowing what it costs around the business, running it like a CEO, reading materials and books that will help you think that way, because most of our industry, especially if you're not new, weren't raised that way.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Right, we were brought in that.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Nope, here's this thing I got to offer.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Let's sell it, get paid Like, and we're really gifted at that thing, and that is a skill that we need Because, again, because advice is nothing If you do nothing with it, right, so you still need a product to match at times, whether the product is a human or a service, right has to happen.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Seeing those two steps were like in a right start knowing yourself and and just that, what is the cost around your business, you can start to think like a CEO.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: The sub point there is probably reading materials on being a CEO.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: What is it like?
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: So it's very different than running a sales business.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Oh for sure, I always joke that I got my, my MBA, from Amazon.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Totally, that's totally where.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Amazon audible.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Those are where I got my MBA.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Libby, I have an MBA.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: I have an MBA, and I got mine from Amazon too.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: So Okay, okay, I love it.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Well, good, well, thank you so much.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: I know some of the stuff that you shared today is really going to help somebody listening kind of get over that hump or feel empowered to make some of those shifts that they know will be really, really good, not only for their business but for just the overall quality of planning that they're doing and the client experience you know on the on the user end.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: But before we go, I always like to ask my guests for one or two things that you do in your business, whether it's a tool, a software, a mindset hack, just a habit, or something that you do that helps you operate as a business owner more efficiently.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: Efficiently is the debatable part, but I am 100% committed to insanely detailed notes.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: That is something I am really committed to.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Now my process is very, very archaic, very old school.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: I use a fancy tool called Microsoft Word right, and I use templated notes per meeting type right.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: So I have the prethoughts in each one.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: That does save time.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: But tracking detailed notes about the clients that are both non financial and financial is 100% my hack for getting to know clients at a level that is deeper than just their money.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: I think that's that's one, one major hack that I use.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: It's not really anything fancy.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: The second thing I'll say is just a mindset thing you alluded to.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: It's understanding that one of the biggest resources you have is relationship currency and building your models to help you create more relationship currency.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: That is the stuff that's telling, that's compelling, that's lasting.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: So, creating opportunities in your relationships with clients, in this case, to create a relationship that's bigger than just money, that is the part that's going to bring you joy, more so than the sexy plan that helped them save $182,000, you know, in taxes that's useful.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: That's not what they're going to remember.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: So that's a hack for me, that relationship thing, relationship currency being a massive value to the gift of the job we have.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: I love that, I love that, and so, with your meeting notes, are you pretty so.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: You take really, really good notes.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Are you then pretty diligent about going back and rereading those prior to next meeting, or does that just like help solidify?
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: Are you one of those guys that can remember everything about every client without having to cheat and look?
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: This time.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: So, yes, so a couple of things, libby, that you'll love and hate.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: So notes first things first.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Not only do we do adequate notes, I time how long it takes me to do notes, and we track that time per week and then per year to make sure I know what the investment is and doing it well, we then also review the notes before meetings.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: Not just me, and this is the big comment there.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: If the team was just me, if I think I'm the business, if I'm small boutique firm and it's me and one person which again is not a bad thing you maybe don't need to have the notes complexity I have.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: But when you've got to make sure you can pass what I call the hit by a bus rule, If I get it by a bus, can someone else step in and know exactly what happened?
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: That's why the way I'd built the notes, so someone else can see that depth and layer and even selfishly, the valuation of a business is far more valuable If someone else can step in and know what was happening versus relying on the trade secrets that are in my head.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: So, absolutely sorry to answer your question in a couple of ways.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: It's, yes, that follow up on how much time it takes maybe too long Most people roll their eyes at me when they know how long it takes and then absolutely review them and look for something human, personal and financial so that we're ready and we walk into that meeting.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Those are all tips of the trade for me and how I think clients feel like I'm the only one when they walk in that meeting.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, we use to have clients all the time, compliment like how and that's what anyone who knows me really well will chuckle when I say this but clients you just have like the best memory.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: If I see him would just die.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: They'd be rolling their ass in the background at me Like there's, like you have the worst memory of anyone.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: I pretty much I'm like an opposite of whatever an elephant is, so like the opposite of an elephant is me.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: But because we took such detailed notes and we took the time and care to actually review them and do exactly what you're talking about pulling certain nuggets out, things that we want to make sure we bring up or revisit or share, and it sounds, it sounds contrite, right, or it sounds like I'm just trying to be like, oh, like fakey, fakey.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: No, I actually cared, I just suck at remembering it all on my own.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Good thing you remember to take the notes right.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: Your memory is great enough for that.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: That's where I'm at.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Like I said, if you have 25 clients, if you're a real specialty in niche or niche kind of company, right, maybe that works.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: But when you're serving, we're at like 182 advice paying clients right now, or households right now.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of people all to support and good notes are required.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: That's a lot of details.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: That's a lot of details.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: That's a lot of details Awesome.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so so much for your time.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: I greatly appreciate it, and you should just be so proud of the business that you've built.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: And I'm always just I always enjoy having conversations with you, because your passion for what you do is just contagious.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Libby.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: I appreciate the chance to speak with you personally and with your people and listeners.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for being such a great resource for our industry that needs it.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: We are really important to the future, and you said I should be proud of the business I built.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: I am prouder each day of the business I'm becoming.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Ooh, I love that.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, and we will end there, mic drop.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you can see why I really wanted to have Brian on here to talk about the topic and, like I said at the top of the episode, he's the guy.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: He was the one at our broker dealer Right around the time that I was leaving was speaking all over the place and he works with other broker dealer firms all about how to, within a broker dealer environment, charge a fee to clients that you're previously charging a free for, or not charging a free, however you want to call that.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: But some of the takeaways that I had that I thought were really interesting was really understanding this idea of a profitability adjusted burn rate and how he used that to start charging a fee.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: And when I started doing planning we used financial planning as a loss leader we did not charge nearly enough in the beginning and my thought process was well, it's enough, we're charging enough to separate the cream from the milk and we're starting to build that imposter syndrome like fighting, you know, antibodies, right that hey, if someone's willing to pay me $500, now they're willing to pay me 750, maybe I can charge a thousand.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you just have to start low, just to start and start moving it up.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Or you could be way smarter than even Brian and I and start charging a fee.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: And really there's a lot of different ways.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Like in our group coaching program, we're diving into all of the different ways that you can price your offer and different ways to think about your offer.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, just do something and take that action and start moving towards charging a fee.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: And what we found in our own practice is, when our clients paid a fee, our implementation rates were sky high.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: People, when you pay for a service, people are more likely to do the implementation.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: But one of the big things that Brian mentioned that I was like wow, that's really.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: That's really a great way of articulating something I've been saying for a long time.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: But man, I was like those were the words that I was looking for Is that what they're paying for isn't the plan.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: The thing isn't the plan.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: They are not paying you a fee for output from MoneyGuide Pro or output from eMoney and the recommendations associated with it.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: I loved how he framed that they are paying for the relationship.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: So I thought that was really, really cool.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: The other kind of takeaway or action item that I had from this is that he was 12 years into his business when he started charging for financial planning.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: I think I was around.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: I'd have to really look at this, but I think I was around seven or eight years in and you can make that change.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: So if you have any head trash around, well, I've been doing it this way for so long and my existing clients you know aren't used to that, or our company maybe you're with a broker dealer isn't known for charging a fee.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: There's no way that I can transition.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: You're dead wrong.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: I did it, brian did it, hundreds and thousands of other advisors have done it.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: That is something you just need to coach yourself through and I love this idea of getting really, really clear, like Brian mentioned, on his why.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: You know it took a life threatening illness for him to really think about what he's choosing his time over, and I love that he tithes some of his time, he takes some of his time and he's really choosy about which pro bono or charity cases he takes, but that he also really thinks about his time and, okay, I'm doing this instead of doing something for my family or doing something with my spouse or doing something with my friends and thinking through how you spend your time and then using that as a barometer for deciding is this client the right relationship?
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: And I love that from so many standpoints.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: But really for me, when I think about it, you know we talk about the three E's right.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: We want your business to be efficient, we want it to be effective, because we'll get as efficient without being effective but, most importantly, I want it to be enjoyable, and so we want to choose clients and choose work and the type of planning that we're doing with people we love and we get fulfillment and we get joy from it.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: And if we have clients in our book that are not bringing us joy, even if they're super profitable, right, maybe there's some adjustments that we need to make.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: So anyway, I hope you guys found this episode helpful.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: I would love to chat more, and Brian is a member out in the Efficient Advisor community over on Facebook.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: If you guys want to talk more about moving from fee to oh, I always want to say that backwards moving Don't move from fee to free.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, you do you.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: Every business can work and every model can work, but if you're thinking about moving from free to fee, yep, there you go got it that time.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: I would love to chat more about that over in the Efficient Advisor community on Facebook, and I hang out on LinkedIn.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Those are really the two places that you can find me online, so I would love to chat with you more.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: If you liked this episode, I would love it if you'd leave a five-star review over there on iTunes or Spotify or whatever podcast app you are listening to.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: Do me a solid and do that for me, if you would.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: And thank you, guys.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: So so much for listening and we'll talk to you soon.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: Have a great rest of your week.