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Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines · Citizen Frame

• 0:00
  Music.
• 0:13
  The end of the world.
• 0:16
  It's today, three hours from now. Two hours and 53 minutes.
• 0:21
  We must continue south into Mexico to escape the primary blast zones.
• 0:27
  We have to get to her dad.
• 0:31
  The Mojave area will sustain significant nuclear fallout. You will not survive.
• 0:38
  You mean we just we go run and hide somewhere in a hole while the bombs fall?
• 0:43
  It is your destiny.
• 0:47
  Fuck my destiny. John.
• 0:49
  Music.
• 0:57
  I'm back.
• 1:01
  Chewbacca's back. Welcome back to the Terminator Retrospective.
• 1:08
  Where to talk Terminator 3 Rise of the Machines. the 2003 10 years after Terminator
• 1:17
  2 No 12 years 12 years is it?
• 1:20
  Yeah it is I think the story might be set 10 years after the events of T2 but
• 1:29
  Terminator 2 came out in 1981 and this is 2003,
• 1:33
  Okay There you go, basic maths,
• 1:38
  Whatever, I don't do maths Or, sorry, did we say moth?
• 1:43
  Cameron has walked away.
• 1:46
  He's busy fucking getting ready to do a movie about blue people.
• 1:51
  Smurfs. And so we got a director who kind of just has disappeared,
• 1:56
  to be honest with you. I like some of his stuff.
• 1:59
  He had Promise, Jonathan Mostow.
• 2:02
  He gave us a really cool independent thriller with Kurt Russell called Breakdown.
• 2:07
  Yes. And then he did a movie with Matthew McConaughey Which I really liked Called U-571,
• 2:15
  Submarine thriller And so this guy was a good choice I think he does action
• 2:21
  well He was chosen by Arnie,
• 2:23
  Yeah, let me, there you go. Stan Winston's back, which is nice. So there you go.
• 2:31
  And I remember seeing this and fucking hating it.
• 2:35
  So that's it. Oh, guess what? We did, if we do find out, in Terminator 2 Adjustment
• 2:41
  Day, John Connor was supposed to be 13.
• 2:45
  Yes. But the timeline just doesn't- That still doesn't work out, though.
• 2:50
  Yeah. Yeah, and actually, the timelines get even more convoluted here whenever
• 2:55
  we see Sir Connor's grave,
• 2:58
  and it states that she, basically, if you do the maths, it states that she was
• 3:03
  25 whenever the events of the first Terminator played out, but I always thought she was 18.
• 3:10
  So, yeah, the timelines, this is where the timelines start to get a bit messed up.
• 3:14
  If you pay attention, General... She was never 18, not for Terminator.
• 3:18
  I was always under that impression.
• 3:20
  No, she's always in her 20s. Okay, I'll take her word on that.
• 3:24
  No, I'm being serious. But I was always of the impression she was like 19 at the most.
• 3:29
  She was a young girl. No, because her gravestone, she was born in 61?
• 3:36
  No, it's like 59 or something. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah.
• 3:40
  All right. Who cares? Yeah, exactly. This woman doesn't care.
• 3:44
  This woman doesn't care, so why should we?
• 3:46
  Well, you know what? I ain't going to defend it. Don't say it.
• 3:49
  Don't say something. Don't say something stupid.
• 3:52
  I will get to it, don't worry. Before you say something stupid to our listening
• 3:56
  audience, I know you, I'm going to surprise you, and then you're going to say
• 4:01
  this was better than Judgment. Yes, I am.
• 4:05
  Oh my God, you're an idiot. Let me finish. In many respects, it is.
• 4:09
  Now, it'll never be as iconic as Terminator 2 because Cameron and the whole
• 4:14
  spectacle, and it was, for the time, 1991, it was real groundbreaking stuff.
• 4:19
  I think in many ways this is a better
• 4:22
  overall story and film and you
• 4:25
  know what it's actually improved over the years for me whenever i
• 4:28
  re-watch it for the podcast serious i you i think that i think i mean we'll
• 4:32
  get to it i'm sort of jumping ahead here but i think the weakest link of this
• 4:35
  film is christina logan yep and that's why the movie's bad no no it's not a
• 4:41
  bad movie just because of that i think yes of course it is your villain sucks
• 4:45
  but it doesn't completely destroy the movie for me?
• 4:47
  You go from the T-1000 to the T-X, oh, sorry, T-X-E.
• 4:54
  I like your gong. And it's so inconsistent. And what a horrible actress.
• 5:01
  It's so bad. It's weird. Do not sit there and say this, this.
• 5:07
  Now, well, let's jump into it. We're jumping ahead. We'll jump into it and we'll
• 5:11
  discuss why your stupid face.
• 5:14
  Okay, right. Well, yeah, let's get to it.
• 5:18
  Well okay Sounds good No no I mean I will back up every statement I make With facts and evidence,
• 5:28
  So beat that Just call me
• 5:31
  Perry Nielsen Wow Alright the
• 5:35
  team is back We got Arnie the T-800 Oh sorry the T-850 Yeah he's been upgraded
• 5:40
  Nick Stahl is John Connor Claire Danes is Kate Brewster Christine alone is who
• 5:46
  gives a fuck TX David Andrews is Robert Brewster Earl Bowen's back in the most
• 5:52
  embarrassing Cameo in film history.
• 5:56
  Dr. Asshole. I mean, it's not funny. It's pointless. It's real.
• 6:00
  It's soul destroying when he's in that scene. It's pointless,
• 6:03
  actually. It made no sense.
• 6:05
  Oh, by the way, I would just like to correct something that I said in the last Terminator 2 podcast.
• 6:10
  No, no, I said that apparently it was in Terminator 2 that they were talking
• 6:15
  about bringing back Lance Henriksen as a detective in a wheelchair.
• 6:19
  It was actually this film. Yeah. Yeah.
• 6:23
  Wow. You just. I try to keep a pretty I try to keep You know,
• 6:31
  Real professionalism on my end here And you can't I can't get that from you
• 6:36
  I don't know Well I think the listeners will maybe look at it In a different way but sure You know.
• 6:45
  So yeah they stopped Judgment Night And now he lives Off the grid There's something
• 6:52
  I know Jonathan Mostow Now, like when I said in the beginning,
• 6:55
  he's willing to direct this. The action sequences are very fun in this.
• 6:58
  And the one thing that was let down with Terminator Judgment Night was that
• 7:02
  there was too much blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
• 7:05
  happy father-son bonding robot time. That's really toned down here.
• 7:09
  With this one, this is just a chase.
• 7:13
  Yes. We'll talk about it coming up here, the chase scene with the crane and
• 7:17
  everything. It's pretty fucking pretty cool shit.
• 7:19
  It's better than the action scenes in 2. This is one of the things where it
• 7:23
  improves onto the action sequences.
• 7:26
  Let's hit or miss, but we'll dive into it.
• 7:30
  So with Moscow's visionary, he's a very solid director, especially if you see U571.
• 7:37
  There's a nice shot when you're introduced to Nick Stahl as John Connor,
• 7:42
  where he throws a bottle of beer down this ravine, and you follow the beer into
• 7:48
  the water, and then you see these lights coming through the water,
• 7:52
  still focused on the beer bottle as it gets older and older in the bottle.
• 7:55
  Like he's been there for years and then you pan up through the water. Hits the skulls.
• 7:59
  And you see all the skulls and you know in the future.
• 8:04
  And you see all these T-800s walking through and firing away and killing everything that moves.
• 8:11
  And then you see one just turn and stare at you. It's kind of cool. I really like that.
• 8:15
  And then he wakes up he's obviously in a nightmare. I would say about that sequence,
• 8:18
  while it is very cool and very well done, the old age makeup on Nick Stahl is pretty bad.
• 8:25
  He's not convinced. He's not convinced as a big sort of like war-torn sort of
• 8:30
  long-suffering military leader.
• 8:32
  He looks like a wee boy with a great wig on.
• 8:35
  Yeah, he's too tiny. But we'll go with it.
• 8:40
  But movie's missing one big thing. Cameron, do you think? One big one.
• 8:44
  One big thing. A good villain?
• 8:47
  That and Brad Vidal. Yes, yeah. We have no credits in this film.
• 8:53
  So I thought when the Terminator turned to the TV,
• 8:57
  Turned to us and looked at us It was going to be all We never got that His music's
• 9:03
  used at the end though I don't give a fuck I want my I know that there,
• 9:10
  But I'm just wondering what the deal was Why he wasn't like Throughout the film
• 9:15
  As opposed to just at the end credits Maybe there's something going on I don't
• 9:20
  think he did the score for this so I don't know.
• 9:25
  Oh, my God. Let's just get this out of the way. So the TX lady shows up.
• 9:31
  Her ass is hanging out, which I will say this.
• 9:34
  I'm glad we don't have to see Artie's ass. I'm glad we don't have to see Robert
• 9:38
  Patrick's ass, and I'm glad we don't have to see Artie's ass two more times.
• 9:42
  So at least we got a hot chick. We got to see her ass.
• 9:47
  So there you go. There's my compliment to the TX. Right. That's it. Nothing else.
• 9:54
  Yeah. Yeah, it is. Her acting's just completely wooden. I get,
• 9:58
  you know. Oh my God, I like your car. Yeah, I like your gun.
• 10:02
  And it's, yeah, I get that she's supposed to be an emotionless robot,
• 10:05
  but like, you know, chill out, Christina.
• 10:07
  You're going a bit too far with the whole emotionless sort of wooden stuff.
• 10:12
  It's, yeah, I can see. I mean, I have nothing against her, you know,
• 10:16
  personally, but I can see why her career did not take off after this.
• 10:21
  Yeah. And here's the story.
• 10:24
  Talk about desperate for a script They Cause John Connor's off the grid They
• 10:32
  go This is future conversation With the robots,
• 10:37
  John Connor He's just disappeared What do we do now Let's go after his lieutenants
• 10:44
  They happen to live in the same area.
• 10:48
  Okay, that sounds great. So they decide they're going to go to the school district,
• 10:54
  look up their old graduation photos, the schools they went to with him, I guess.
• 10:58
  And those are all his first Lutellian? I know, yeah. This is one thing that
• 11:02
  bugs me about this film. There is one thing.
• 11:05
  No, no, yes. Well, there's more than one. But there is too much coincidence here.
• 11:10
  The fact that also Kate Brewster, her dad, just happens to be the guy at Skynet, at Cyberdyne?
• 11:18
  You know, just by pure... I mean, what are the odds that... And then he gets...
• 11:23
  John Connor gets in a bike accident.
• 11:25
  He goes to a veterinarian... It just happens to be her.
• 11:27
  Yeah. It happens to be her, the girl he went to school with.
• 11:31
  They do address it later on, where John Connor says something like,
• 11:34
  oh, it was like, you know, destination.
• 11:36
  Sorry, not destiny. Destiny. It was meant to happen, that's why.
• 11:39
  Oh, God. No, it doesn't work, but they do address it later on.
• 11:43
  But it doesn't convince me, where he says, yeah, we were supposed to get together,
• 11:48
  you know that night in some basement or something whenever the first like
• 11:50
  you know kissed his kids and then uh but
• 11:53
  then it was cut short by the t-1000 robert patrick
• 11:56
  killing his foster parents he says but yeah it was
• 11:59
  our destiny so we're always going to meet at some point but it doesn't convince
• 12:02
  me too much coincidence way too much coincidence i will say this i did like
• 12:07
  that what i did like that when the t when the t-1000 showed up and arnie showed
• 12:14
  up in part two it It altered the time,
• 12:16
  the time, it altered the time loop, whatever you call it,
• 12:20
  because they were making out in the closet one day. And then the next day they showed up.
• 12:25
  So they never had that chance to become boyfriend, girlfriend.
• 12:30
  And get married. So they changed it. No, because they never really addressed
• 12:34
  timelines in this. So they finally at least did that.
• 12:39
  Do you know what I mean? No, no, I get what you're saying, yeah.
• 12:41
  They finally did something where they mentioned we altered the timeline by coming...
• 12:46
  And to be fair as well, it does sort of, with this whole destiny thing where
• 12:51
  it's predestined that they would end up together, it does also tie in with the
• 12:55
  Judgment Day just being postponed,
• 12:58
  and it was always going to happen at some point anyway, so yeah, I'll give them that.
• 13:03
  It's always niggled me more, the fact that just by pure chance,
• 13:07
  her dad's like the main man at cyberdome or yeah
• 13:10
  yeah coincidence for me yeah there's
• 13:13
  too much and then the school districts all it's just
• 13:16
  jobs for us so whenever like you
• 13:19
  know like the world ended and all that there and like the robots took over just
• 13:23
  by chance it's from school with the only ones that survived so we got them together
• 13:27
  like red dawn they got together it's like it's like over eads yeah yeah So here's what, yeah,
• 13:36
  John Connor's off the grid, right?
• 13:41
  And no one can find him. The robots in the future are like, we can't find him.
• 13:46
  But he lives in the area where all of his buddies live that he went to school with.
• 13:52
  He's got to go to South America or Northern somewhere.
• 13:55
  Yeah. When he said off the grid, I was waiting for like Alaska.
• 13:58
  Yeah, exactly. Or something. Yeah. No, he's just behind the Burger King.
• 14:02
  Yeah and he also just happens to because he's
• 14:06
  on the gear he's like taking you know um gear and
• 14:09
  drugs and whatever he also just happens to break into kate brewster's pet shop
• 14:14
  to understand what's not it's not a pet shop it's a veterinary um surgery he
• 14:19
  just but it just happens to be hers on the very same night that christina lucan
• 14:23
  has come back in time looking for him more more.
• 14:27
  Coincidences yeah this is come on i think as you're saying this out loud you're trying to Now,
• 14:33
  I almost wish.
• 14:36
  They take bits of three and put it into two. Yeah.
• 14:39
  You know, mush them together a bit. But, okay, so Robert, the big boss man. Yes.
• 14:47
  He's military. Yes. And they have a virus.
• 14:50
  So what they need to do, they're going to let Skynet, the computer,
• 14:54
  the AI computer, take over the military systems so they can attack the virus.
• 15:00
  But what they don't realize is Skynet's the one who actually created the virus. Skynet is the virus.
• 15:05
  Yes, but they didn't realize it was Skynet. Yes, that's right.
• 15:09
  Because he's going to release Skynet to attack the virus, but it's Skynet who
• 15:13
  created it. Yes, that's right. Robert makes a good line.
• 15:15
  I always think humans should be running the show, and he's right.
• 15:20
  But he has a right to control it too. He can turn it off if it's not working.
• 15:25
  But once he gives Skynet control, there's no going back. That's where everything's fucked.
• 15:30
  Yeah, there's no going back because Skynet becomes too aware,
• 15:33
  and then it sees if Robert or
• 15:36
  anyone was to switch them off as is basically confirmed in the previous films
• 15:40
  as well it sees humanity as a threat to it and so it attacks them in the most
• 15:47
  brilliant ways so when we see we get Arnie with you know the whole exact same
• 15:52
  copy of Pacey goes into a bar blah blah blah.
• 15:55
  It's so embarrassing this is embarrassing yeah he puts on the glasses Versus
• 16:01
  TX is going around shooting people in drive-thrus and shit.
• 16:06
  Here's the problem with this movie. Yeah. Here's the problem,
• 16:09
  and I'm shocked you like it.
• 16:10
  Here's the problem with it. And you said this about Judgment Day.
• 16:15
  It was too toned down. I wanted more killing.
• 16:18
  This has nothing in it. And also, this movie really actually plays like a Transformers
• 16:26
  film than it does a Terminator film.
• 16:28
  Them i i uh well in defense i
• 16:31
  would say that it does tone down the silliness
• 16:35
  of the terminator and john connor's relationship i'd like to think
• 16:38
  so he's now in his 20s no it's just as
• 16:41
  bad no that's nowhere near as bad oh my god when
• 16:44
  he when he tries to hi-fi you know
• 16:47
  i know but it's not as bad and come on also
• 16:51
  why has this yeah well actually but
• 16:54
  do you know why i was going to ask why this terminator only injures
• 16:57
  humans but it was actually kate programmed them not
• 17:00
  to kill humans whenever he went back i like the twist where in
• 17:03
  the future john connor has been killed by this arnie terminator
• 17:07
  yes i like that i do like that's a dark age which adds to it and but you know
• 17:12
  an age to their relationship so it's no longer father son type thing you know
• 17:17
  like the the father mentor character but don't get me wrong there's some really
• 17:21
  stupid stuff in this as well with like Doctor with a Hand.
• 17:25
  And there's other, you know, with the Elton John glasses and stuff,
• 17:27
  and the scene with Dr. Asshole.
• 17:30
  That's pretty stupid and pointless as well.
• 17:35
  I love the ending of this, I must admit. Okay, okay, you're going all over there, man.
• 17:41
  You're going way above and beyond where we are here, buddy.
• 17:48
  You're just, and another thing. One more thing. Is there like Columbo?
• 17:53
  Oh, Jesus Christ. Just one more thing, you know?
• 17:57
  Fucking hell. Okay, so getting back to what we were talking about. Wow.
• 18:02
  What? I'm a dumber man now because of that. Thank you.
• 18:06
  I like your gun. That's so stupid. Don't ever say that to me again,
• 18:11
  by the way. That was fucking crazy as fuck.
• 18:13
  Jesus Christ. I like your car. No, I do like the fact when John's trying to
• 18:18
  give him orders, he's like, I don't take orders from you.
• 18:21
  And he takes them from Kate. And he goes, what the fuck, man?
• 18:26
  The fuck, you piece of shit?
• 18:28
  Why don't you? And then he finds out you're dead. And he's like, oh, fuck me then.
• 18:33
  Yeah so you know i i would say the clark deans can act and she's the best actor
• 18:39
  here no no she can't no no she can't no the best actor is hercules the cat.
• 18:47
  Right that's that's in the veteran that that is the best act the acting is terrible
• 18:51
  come on the ends is the best in the bunch yeah that's not saying much i do like some clever stuff,
• 18:57
  again, wasted on a bad movie, but I like when the TX or TXE,
• 19:04
  as I call her, can taste blood.
• 19:07
  Yes. And then she could pick up the DNA and then she finds out that's John Connor.
• 19:11
  I thought that was kind of clever. I do think the whole...
• 19:16
  It's funny because they try to make the TX an upgrade from the T-1000.
• 19:21
  I think the T-1000 would have been more of a badass. He's slicker and he's more
• 19:26
  deadly looking and he's literally more deadly. He kills more people.
• 19:29
  Yeah. Yeah, and this is metallic. This is a robot with some metallic goo with it.
• 19:34
  So it's not the same thing. She's very easily destruct. She could be destruct.
• 19:38
  She's just basically the next model of iPhone.
• 19:41
  You know, there's not much, you know, there's not much of a,
• 19:44
  you know, in terms of terminating she's not a better killer you know she just
• 19:49
  she can just taste blood and DNA basically and make her tits get bigger you know on a whim.
• 19:57
  I wish this got an update right get it yeah yes yes yes no I
• 20:04
  do love the ending of this with the whole it's a very okay we're not even we're
• 20:09
  not even why are you jumping to the ending again I'm just saying to give people
• 20:13
  a teaser for what's coming up on this podcast.
• 20:15
  Yeah, but you said that like five minutes ago when we were talking about the
• 20:19
  ending. It's a highlight of the film for me.
• 20:20
  Okay. We all, okay, everybody, we're going to be talking about the ending here
• 20:25
  probably in about 20 minutes.
• 20:27
  So everyone get ready for Trevor's big reveal.
• 20:32
  So excited. By the way, I said, did you watch that YouTube clip I sent you of
• 20:38
  the deleted scene of Sergeant Candy?
• 20:42
  Oh, that was stupid. Yeah. Well, that was deleted. That was meant to be in this
• 20:46
  film. Yeah, a lot of those films should have been deleted.
• 20:50
  Again, there's some nice stuff. There's a nice shot where he finally meets up
• 20:55
  with the TX and her and Arnie are fighting.
• 20:58
  And she blows him back, pardon the pun, yeah, you know what I'm saying?
• 21:02
  And Arnie is shocked, and he flies all over through this building.
• 21:06
  And as you see these little, you see the shock waves going through his body,
• 21:10
  you can see his exoskeleton through his skin.
• 21:13
  It's kind of a cool little shot, actually. I'm trying to find something here.
• 21:18
  So I do think that, I do like the fact that the TX can control cars.
• 21:23
  I think that's kind of cool. Machines, all their machines, yeah.
• 21:25
  Yeah, all their machines, that is. the best part of this entire film and it
• 21:30
  is the best scene it's actually probably it is better than this some of the
• 21:35
  actually the actual scenes we got in Terminator 2,
• 21:40
  Terminator 2 is a much better film don't get me wrong more competent but this
• 21:44
  whole crane truck scene is fucking this is what I want to say this is what I
• 21:50
  want this was just fucking in your face destruction.
• 21:54
  Everything it's and the stunt work and even the
• 21:57
  cgi was well done yeah everything about when
• 22:00
  that crane goes through the building and arnie's still hanging on to it he's
• 22:03
  being thrown through the glass i tell you a bit of trivia about that that scene
• 22:06
  that particular part of the scene with the building they ran
• 22:09
  out of budget for that and arnie basically gave
• 22:13
  part of his own fee to the budget to make
• 22:16
  sure that scene that part of the scene was done you know where he's getting trailed through
• 22:19
  the building and the building collapses yeah i think i think
• 22:22
  yeah because he got like 30 million for this yeah And I
• 22:26
  guarantee you Arnie says yeah this movie's shit I'm gonna have to pay Something
• 22:31
  to make this a little better So the stuff that Arnie paid for Is the best scene
• 22:37
  In the film After this truck scene This movie becomes,
• 22:43
  Incredibly laughable The cemetery scene's quite good I quite like that with
• 22:47
  Arnie with the coffin That was the stupidest I'll tell you why,
• 22:52
  They go to the cemetery. Oh, there's your dead mom. What? My mom's buried.
• 22:56
  No, no, this is weapons. We were prepared for this.
• 22:58
  It's so fucking stupid. So they take off their guns.
• 23:02
  And by the way, they didn't carry a lot of those guns. They put both of them in that coffin.
• 23:09
  And he is holding the coffin over his head. And he's shooting up the shit and being badass.
• 23:14
  That cotton coffin got fucking umpteen bullets. Guys, coffins aren't bulletproof.
• 23:22
  How the fuck are these two still alive? You know what's a good scene?
• 23:27
  I know you're laughing, but dude, you talked about the Terminator,
• 23:31
  how it was gritty and horrific.
• 23:34
  This is a nightmare compared to Judgment Night.
• 23:36
  I mean, none of them are a patch on the original, but I'm trying to draw out
• 23:41
  some of the positives out of this.
• 23:42
  What did bug me the most about this cemetery scene is Arnie,
• 23:46
  armed to the teeth with all these big mad guns and stuff,
• 23:49
  off shooting away and not again he
• 23:52
  doesn't kill anyone i want to say you know he's
• 23:55
  meant to be a terminator he's meant to terminate people yes i get kate programmed
• 23:58
  them not to kill humans but still it's back to the
• 24:01
  second one where it's he can't kill anyone and that's just like shooting him
• 24:05
  in the leg that annoyed me you know what is a creepy scene which is around this
• 24:09
  time is the scene with kate's fiancee when he is in the cop car and kills two
• 24:15
  cops as you know it's a tx you know, taking on this form.
• 24:19
  Yeah, you finally got some violence there with the arm through the chest.
• 24:23
  Yes, through the seat. Yeah.
• 24:24
  Yeah. But I wanted fucking blood
• 24:28
  everywhere. Yeah. But no, it was a PG-13 penetration. Yes, it was. Sadly.
• 24:33
  Well, but also with the cemetery scene, I wanted to see proper carnage as opposed
• 24:38
  to shooting them in the leg. You're not getting it.
• 24:40
  You're not getting it. This is Transformers.
• 24:44
  Terminator's gone. This is now your favorite film. You said this at the beginning of the podcast.
• 24:49
  You said this is better, I can't believe you're saying this,
• 24:51
  than Judgment. I can't believe you said that. In some aspects.
• 24:54
  No, no, you said it's a better film. In some aspects it is. You need to back, no.
• 25:00
  Dude, you can't change what you said. I'm not adding, you said this was a better
• 25:05
  film than Judgment, which is un-fucking-candy you're saying that. But it is in ways.
• 25:10
  I will back up what I'm saying. No, you can't say it is in ways.
• 25:12
  You said it is, so it is, period.
• 25:14
  No, no, there's nuance here with what I'm saying. And there's ambiguity, but in ways it is.
• 25:20
  Oh, no. You just cheat. As we have this discussion, this is why when you give
• 25:26
  your fucking fine, you lift all your kittens on the barrel. What the fuck that even means.
• 25:35
  Yeah. I've never heard that expression ever before in my life.
• 25:39
  But there you go. It's an education doing this podcast as well.
• 25:43
  I've never heard. I just made that up. All your kittens in one basket.
• 25:46
  You're not backing it up. I mean, it's terrible.
• 25:50
  I mean, my God, it's going to get worse. I just don't want to admit that I'm
• 25:54
  being swayed a little bit by your argument, but I guess I just have admitted it.
• 25:58
  But, you know, in front of the listeners, you know what I mean?
• 26:04
  I would lose all respect.
• 26:07
  Yeah, no, and the more we talk about it, I do realize that it certainly has its flaws. Yes.
• 26:13
  I'm going to say it again and you're going to cringe, but the,
• 26:18
  and I'm not just talking about the very end, I think it is saved by the end.
• 26:23
  I do like the ending, and there's one word that describes it.
• 26:30
  It's bleak. Yes. But not only that, the, whenever we actually get to see the
• 26:34
  machines as well, you know, like the T1s or whatever. Oh, I fucking hated that.
• 26:40
  But at least right there I was like, Transformers. Well, that's Transformers.
• 26:43
  But at least we're getting to see the beginning of the – we're actually getting
• 26:47
  – for the previous two films, we just heard about this war in the future,
• 26:50
  caught some glimpses of it, and like flash-forwards or flashbacks,
• 26:53
  whatever way you want to call them.
• 26:55
  But at least here, we actually see Judgment Day happening.
• 26:59
  Do you know what I mean? So let me get this straight. So they got two hours
• 27:03
  and four, three minutes to escape the Blattson. More coincidence, yes, yes.
• 27:07
  Yeah, so – but they're going to decide to go save the dad, which is pointless
• 27:10
  because the idiot actually caused this.
• 27:12
  So they go, the biggest fucking military base in the world that nobody knows about.
• 27:23
  The dad's in there and he's commanding stuff and blah, blah,
• 27:27
  blah. And then they walk in.
• 27:29
  Arnie walks in fully armed with every weapon possible, the two dipshits,
• 27:35
  and they just walk right into where he is.
• 27:38
  How the fuck do they get through who knows who knows yeah
• 27:42
  it is quite preposterous that that number one
• 27:45
  the fact that it's a secret military compound all
• 27:48
  right granted maybe arnie knew you know when his database or
• 27:51
  whatever but the fact that they just breezed in but not only that like arnie's
• 27:55
  not a small guy you know i mean yeah and the pile of weapons that he's holding
• 28:01
  the teeth yeah who knows maybe it was maybe he did a bit of i don't know a bit
• 28:06
  of threatening or something who Who knows? It's never explained.
• 28:10
  But they do it for all intents and purposes. They just breeze on in.
• 28:13
  But see the best about it, see with the TX, she actually disguises herself as an employee.
• 28:18
  So they actually go to the trouble of having her go to this covert disguise
• 28:24
  and sneaking in and stuff, you know, as one of the employees.
• 28:27
  But it's like, ah, sure, fuck it, just let her in, I'll breeze in.
• 28:30
  Yeah, that's right. It's just so stupid. They clearly, I mean,
• 28:34
  I don't know. No, this was just a rush job. This is what happened here.
• 28:39
  It could be choppy editing as well.
• 28:42
  No, yeah, or this movie's long enough. Or a bad script. No, it's actually,
• 28:46
  you know, let's just, you know, whatever. I don't know.
• 28:50
  I don't give a fuck. The dad gets blown away, so he gets some blood there at least. Is he an act?
• 28:55
  Yeah, he's a retro actor. He's been around. He's all right. Then we get these
• 28:59
  fucking T1 things. Fucking stupid.
• 29:02
  I thought I was watching Robocop 3.
• 29:05
  Like, this is shit. Though, Trevor's favorite fucking film. I think we're getting
• 29:09
  to see The Machine Rising.
• 29:11
  It is called Rise of the Machines, after all. We're actually getting to see that at the end.
• 29:16
  Oh, wow, okay. Great, okay. So if it was called Terminator, TX takes a shit,
• 29:22
  you'd go, oh, yeah, I can't wait to see that shit.
• 29:26
  Well, that's what they might have. Hey, it's in the title. Well,
• 29:28
  that's what they might as well have called Terminator Genisys.
• 29:31
  But, you know, we'll get to that in a later podcast. cast but no
• 29:35
  i mean you know you know what that's put me in mind of and i mean this in
• 29:37
  a complimentary way the whole finale with the whole sort of
• 29:40
  apocalyptic you know stuff going off and um especially
• 29:43
  that very bleak outer limits twilight zone-esque twist
• 29:46
  ending it's very 1950s 1960s science fiction b-movie-esque and i like that and
• 29:53
  it also is a good hark back but i don't know whether it's intentional or not
• 29:56
  to the original outer limits episodes that cameron ripped off from Harlan Ellison, you know?
• 30:04
  So there's a hark back there to sort of 1950, 1960s sci-fi.
• 30:08
  In my mind, anyway, I could be thinking about this too much.
• 30:12
  You just thought it was Transformers? Yeah, I'll tell you what.
• 30:14
  I'll tell you what. The writers of this weren't thinking about that much.
• 30:17
  So let me, you're giving this, yeah, wow.
• 30:22
  So the fight scene between him and her is stupid.
• 30:25
  But she ends up cutting his head off pretty much. Yeah. And he just puts it back on as you do.
• 30:30
  Yeah, of course. Why didn't you finish him off? But ends up making him kill John Connor. Yes.
• 30:37
  It changes database. Yeah. This whole scene where I have to kill you, John Connor.
• 30:44
  He's like, no, don't do it. I must fight my inner strength.
• 30:48
  I was like, this is the fucking stupidest fucking stupid. Fuck me.
• 30:54
  Fucking stupid. Artie doesn't. And then how do they fly helicopters?
• 30:59
  Who, Terminators? No. Oh, you mean John Connor and she can fly?
• 31:05
  She learned to fly. She can fly, I think. oh of
• 31:08
  course because no she enters some bullshit like fix
• 31:11
  all line where she says um i grew up on
• 31:14
  military bases with my dad and he taught me how to fly yeah
• 31:17
  yeah because as you're going to as you're
• 31:20
  doing you're going to vet today in school you gotta have that time to fly a
• 31:24
  helicopter instead of being like a fighter pilot she decided to be a vet you
• 31:29
  know there you go now i do i do Do you like the last sequence where Terminator
• 31:36
  is fighting the TX and she's pretty much cut in half now.
• 31:39
  He's dragging her because he's going to be crushing himself to get her.
• 31:43
  So he pulls her by pretty much the spine. It's kind of creepy.
• 31:46
  Yeah. And his face is all very, it's a very cool effect. Almost like Two-Face. Yeah.
• 31:51
  So you see his exoskeleton and his human side and he pulls her as the door is about to close on them.
• 31:58
  Yes. And they crush them and he says, you are Terminator.
• 32:01
  Yeah. That was a good scene, but I didn't care.
• 32:03
  I would have cared. I cared more in the Terminator 2 or I cared more for.
• 32:07
  Well, but you kept the thumbs up and went, now I know why you cry.
• 32:12
  Well, no, but because you had the character writing there was a lot better.
• 32:18
  I'm not saying I'd agree to some of the camp of it. I didn't,
• 32:20
  but it still worked. I remember I said that in the podcast.
• 32:24
  What I did say was I kind of felt sorry for him when he was getting his ass
• 32:28
  kicked. Maybe that campy crap was getting to me.
• 32:31
  So they did no they did something right uh here
• 32:34
  it's just false fly pardon the pun right well
• 32:38
  you know what apparently um see whenever the actual bombs do go off from skynet
• 32:42
  and you just see like one nuclear bomb going off or something apparently this
• 32:45
  scene was meant to be much more graphic we're going to have things like the
• 32:49
  statue of liberty and the hollywood sign melting and stuff and you're going
• 32:52
  to see you know dr asshole dr silverman we're going to see him getting blown Blown up,
• 32:57
  well, basically melted by the nuclear blast.
• 33:00
  But the reason they dialed it back and you only see one bomb going off is because
• 33:04
  the filmmakers, the studio said it was too soon after 9-11 and it would upset audiences.
• 33:11
  It's stupid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. I wanted to see all that,
• 33:15
  to be honest, and it would have been much more powerful of an ending. Still a good ending.
• 33:18
  No, I mean, you're not going to get a powerful ending on this.
• 33:23
  Well, I like the twist. It's got some nice ideas, but that's great.
• 33:29
  I mean, I could have nice ideas, but the execution's all wrong here.
• 33:33
  You know, it's piss poor. The villain's terrible, terrible. And right there,
• 33:41
  you're going from the Terminator, the original, and the villain was the T-800, Arnie. Yeah.
• 33:47
  Then you had the T-1000, who was badass in Terminator 2. And this,
• 33:52
  when we get this. Yeah, cheap bod.
• 33:55
  I mean, no. All convention. I mean, but your favorite parts of the Terminators
• 33:59
  were Arnie, badass in the first one.
• 34:01
  You liked the T-1000 in the second one. And this one, what the fuck?
• 34:05
  No, I've said. it dude so we can't you can't but you
• 34:08
  can't you can't say this is better no no no i
• 34:11
  think right i'll tell you what i think is better than part
• 34:14
  two here i'll just but i'll just be straight i think the action
• 34:17
  sequences are better but obviously you know
• 34:20
  there's been a progression of like stunts and special effects and all
• 34:22
  that there so that's to be expected to be fair but i think
• 34:25
  the action sequences are definitely better handled here
• 34:28
  and i also think it is a much better
• 34:31
  ending than terminator 2 terminator 2 has
• 34:34
  a happy ending and you know and also the nonsense sort of father son relationship
• 34:39
  between john and the terminator is dialed back in the third one apart from that
• 34:46
  it definitely has its flaws the biggest one being sadly christina lucan yeah so,
• 34:53
  yeah this is not good guys we're coming up on terminator salvation i haven't
• 35:01
  seen in a while but I remember really fucking enjoying it. This one takes place in the future.
• 35:06
  More of like a, it's got more of a steampunk Mad Max feel to it.
• 35:10
  So I'm looking forward to revisiting that. I saw it the second time. Yeah.
• 35:15
  And then I, then we got Genesis sadly, which we've done on the podcast,
• 35:19
  but we'll have to revisit it. Yeah.
• 35:21
  And then we'll end with Dark Fate. And I still so far, Dark Fate is the accident,
• 35:27
  because Cameron wrote that. So that was the ending he wanted.
• 35:30
  And so I'm looking forward to revisiting Dark Fate again.
• 35:34
  So we've got a couple of good ones coming up, couple of bad ones coming up.
• 35:37
  This is by far, no, I think Genesis is the worst. Genesis is the worst for me,
• 35:43
  but I haven't seen Dark Fate yet. But Genesis is definitely the worst for me.
• 35:47
  Yeah, I got to watch this again. This one's got that really fucking cool chase with the truck.
• 35:53
  So that's, you know, that's good. It's a pass award, but it's terrible.
• 35:57
  It's a terrible film. Talk to the hand.
• 36:00
  But, all right, guys, next up, as we just mentioned, Terminator Salvation.
• 36:07
  And we'll be back. We'll maybe do another apocalyptic-type franchise retrospective
• 36:13
  in the future as well. Mightn't be after we finish this one.
• 36:17
  Well, I just announced it on the site, so we're doing the Mad Max.
• 36:21
  Because I just saw Furiosa, guys, and I'm fucking adrenaline rushed.
• 36:26
  I want to do that franchise now. I'm going to see it in a couple of days, Dave.
• 36:29
  Yeah we'll take a breather do a couple regular dramas yeah and then jump back
• 36:38
  into retrospectives alright guys thanks for giving us a listen here at give us a shout at,
• 36:45
  Instagram at Citizen Frame underscore podcast on Instagram and of course Facebook that's all I have,
• 36:56
  that's all I've got yeah.
• 36:58
  Music.