Latest / Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast / Checking in and Seeking Reassurance (OCD) (Episode 06)
Transcript
- Marc & Stacee: Hey there, I'm Stacey and along with my husband Mark, we wanna thank you for living uncertain with us. Of course, this is the podcast where we talk all things related to OCD and ERP. Welcome to episode six, where we will be talking about checking in and reassurance. This idea of checking in with people or seeking out reassurance is something that has been really central to my own journey with OCD. Thank you for joining us on today's episode and Living Uncertain with us. We are not therapists and this podcast is intended to provide information and support. It should not replace traditional means of seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. If you like this episode or would like to hear more, please like, subscribe or share with someone you think may benefit. Here at Living Uncertain, we're building a community of support. Opening: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Living Uncertain. This podcast is dedicated to obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, and the primary treatment, exposure response prevention, ERP. OCD comes in many forms, such as contamination, perfectionism, checking, harm, superstitious, religious or moral, sexual orientation, and or relationship. ERP is the gold standard to treating OCD. Marc & Stacee: And one of those pieces that has been the most challenging for me to overcome the need to gain that reassurance, that compulsion that I need to check in overtakes quite often. And even to this day, I am still working on that. I am still actively working through ERP in order to overcome that particular compulsion. And it's often challenging as well for the spouse of someone with OCD. And as a married couple like Mark and I, Opening: and it focuses on deliberately confronting fears, the exposure, while refraining from compulsive rituals, the response prevention. With repeated exposures and without engaging in compulsions, we learn to tolerate anxiety and break the cycle of intrusive thoughts. We are a married couple that have faced both the challenges of OCD and the incredible healing that ERP can provide to your marriage, family, and your home. As a person who lives with OCD, Marc & Stacee: If you and your significant other would like to share your story, we would love to have you on the podcast. Please click on the link in the episode description and fill out the interest form. because they're often the ones taking on the pressure of being that person to constantly be the one to give that reassurance. And by that I say, I was checking in and gaining, engaging people's reassurance dozens of times a day, every single day. It was overtaking a lot of what I was trying to do day to day in my own life. And so it has Opening: I am much more than this diagnosis. We all can be. Marc & Stacee: become one that I am the most aware of at this point, the one that I am the most, the one that I'm still actively trying to work through ERP with. And the checking inside would impact myself ⁓ daily. And when I mean daily, it would be like when I'm at work, she would give me a call and say, what do you think, you know, if I say this to this person? call me up and say, hey, I sent this text message. Do you think they haven't responded to me yet? Do you think they're mad at me? ⁓ She would send me the text message first and say, well, what do you think? Should I send that message? And it was a constant daily check-in, anywhere between five to 20 times a day during my work hours. Yes. When I was trying to have meetings, the phone would ring. And because we owned the business together, if the phone call would ring and I wanted to make sure that the day to day operations would happen, I would answer that call because I knew if I did not reassure her that the day would spiral out of control. And throughout my journey of OCD and I've transferred my need to check in and to gain reassurance from different people in my life, different aspects of my life, finally landing on Mark and he and I have been together for over 20 years now and Soki has taken that burden on without us even knowing that that's what it was. I didn't know that that's what I was doing it for. I didn't realize it was reassurance. I didn't realize it was a compulsion. I certainly didn't realize I had a diagnosis of OCD at the time. But when we check in, when we need reassurance, we're often asking the same question several different times throughout the day. And we'll just find a different way to say it because then we'll get that response from our loved one or our, for me personally, from my employees at the time that we're seeking out. And so we, because we need that reassurance. Because if we don't have it, the anxiety, the what if, the looping thoughts, the intrusive thoughts, they get so overwhelming. And you had to have the right response. Which is why I often needed to check in again and then again and about the same thing about similar things. And he's right, it became a very big part of our day and it became most prevalent during those years that we owned the business. And so during our first podcast, we described a lot about what happened at the end of our business ownership. And unfortunately, it didn't end the way we would have liked. We did end up closing the business and a lot of things happened there. The one thing that I think Mark and I can both say that came out of that was my diagnosis, my opportunity to go through ERP and have this intensive treatment so I could become aware of what I was doing and try to make changes in my life. And so that was the one thing that did come from it that was more positive. Unfortunately, the rest was not. And I will tell you that that if I did not respond in the way that she wanted me to respond, it usually ended up in an argument of some sort. Yes. To where it driving home at night was sometimes very unpleasant because of the argument that we might have had because I might have been distracted by my job. and just said, yeah, no, that's fine. And just my tone or my lack of enthusiasm about the response would have irritated her because it wasn't just right. And... she might have hung up on me. I would have gotten frustrated, potentially hung up on her. So those three years in particular where the challenge of the business along with the OCD was at a level of 10. ⁓ And then once we started the ERP for the checking in piece, that was a game changer for. for me as the loved one. And also gave me the tools to counteract and block those check ins. Because with those of us who have OCD, we're constantly seeking reassurance because we can't live uncertain. We have to have a measure of certainty in our life. And that's really one of the things that drives the need for the compulsion of checking in and having reassurance. And because we aren't able in our own minds to live uncertain and have that uncertainty, the burden really does become someone else's in that regard in a lot of ways. So some of the ways that we had to initially start off with the checking in and we had to start small. could not have, it was, we could not have just jumped in and did the bandaid on it. It had to be small as far as the check-ins and she was still allowed to do check-ins. We had a threshold of like, okay, this one, absolutely need to know the response to this. So she had a number of. per day that she was allowed to go beyond that gate that I had to put up with all of the other check-ins. he gave me three, y'all, three check-ins a day. And during therapy, that was one of the things we sat down and we talked about what was the number that felt comfortable to you, to me? Three was a compromise then because. And to the therapist. Yes, agreed. And it was good. And that was the first step is taking that piece of it and saying, okay, no, we're going to put a number on it. You can't just have constant check-ins. You can't just keep doing this. What's the number? We landed on the number three. At the time I was running the day-to-day operations of the business, I felt like those check-ins and reassurances were getting, it was getting more and more overwhelming. So I took the three because I would need at least some chance throughout the day to get that reassurance. But the rest of them. I always had to, you when a text message came through and said, you know, what do you think about sending, we sending this message, you know, I'd always have to say, I don't know. Or. I'm not sure I was going to say, I'm not sure became the phrase that. Changed both of our lives and just know when you're starting that practice. I could see her frustration level, her anxiety level. ⁓ man. Pop up really high. And there were times that she would bite at me like this is not a check in. I always I knew it was a check in. She was trying to mask it as not being a check in. But it absolutely 100 percent was a check in. And if I said, I'm not sure, then sometimes that became a little bit of an argument. Not as bad as. before ERP and before going through the full-on treatment for her OCD, but it was still a mini-argument, but they didn't last as long. So here's the key to the I'm not sure statement, especially as it relates to a check-in or a reassurance seeking measure. When you have OCD and you're checking in, and you're getting reassurance because you can't live uncertain. His responsive, it's going to be fine. You're OK. You're fine. He's fine. They're fine. However it might have looked. Then I get the reassurance. My anxiety comes down. I can breathe. I'm good. Because he gave me that certainty I was looking for. I gave her that drug. But what happened was now my OCD just got looped right back to the beginning. So now I need to check in again. And so I do. And we go through the same cycle again. And then. I can breathe and we're good. But every time he reassures me that cycle of OCD continues. And so the I'm not sure pushed my anxiety to where I had to live in that uncomfortable moment. And it's not just with my reassuring and my check-ins, it was with my people pleasing compulsions. It has been with my just right compulsions. It was my compulsion over the intrusive thoughts I was having over death. No matter what it was, I had to. live in that uncomfortable moment, but the reassurances especially, his response had to be something different so it could cut that loop off. and not allow me to go through that cycle of intrusive thoughts and seeking out the compulsion and then relaxing for a moment and then it all starting again. That response becomes the moment where the cycle breaks. And that's what's really important about ERP. That's what's really important about phrases like I'm not sure. And that is especially what's important about Mark and I doing this together. I could not have done this without him. I'm so grateful to him. I'm so grateful to our therapist who set the stage for us to do it together. We have had such amazing results. I feel like I have a new lease on life. He feels like he has a new lease on life. It's not perfect and I have OCD and I will have OCD tomorrow and I will have OCD next week and in a few years. But now I have the opportunity to be more aware and the one that I had to become the most aware of and the one that was the hardest for me. is this idea of checking in and seeking reassurance. And I think the reason why you're checking in is because you wanted to make sure that the people were good. It was always around making sure people were good. Very highly connected to my people-pleasing compulsion. Yeah, so the checking in with me was to make sure that whatever she were to say to somebody else was to make sure that they would end up being good. And I couldn't measure that for myself. I needed Mark to measure that for me because my goodness, what if it didn't go over well? How could I live in that uncertainty? I couldn't. It felt like the equivalent of dying almost to me to have to live in that uncomfortable moment in that uncertainty. I couldn't do it. I finally learned how to do it. And learning how to do it is what is absolutely life changing. now instead of her coming in and checking in with me to make sure that Okay, what if I say this to somebody? She has to actually sit there and go, okay, if I say this to them, you know, okay, they could react this way, they could feel this thing, they could feel that thing, they could feel this way. What if they don't like me after I say it? Okay, you you've got to go through all of the different components, the negative components that you're trying to counteract. Well, I have to take away the... the mental compulsions of the self reassurances that I had been giving myself all these years as well and change that verbiage as well to say, they will, maybe they don't. What could happen? And I really had to focus in on that. And it took time, it took practice. I'm still practicing. I still catch myself checking in with Mark. And now I'll give him a little bit of a hard time if he responds. in a way that gives me reassurance versus the I'm not sure. Because she is very tricky sometimes and does run it past me. yes. I'm the tricky one. I will then reassure her and she will then say, I'm a tell her therapist on you because you reassured me. she knows that she was checking for reinsurance. And then I try to backtrack and be funny like, well, you know, I'm not sure still. You know, or I give her a response sometimes now that, you know, might be one that she might not like, like just the other day, she's like, Hey, I'm going to run to Target. Is that okay? And I said, no, just flat out. said, And it was uncomfortable. I'll be honest. I almost didn't go, but it's Target y'all. I you know, so, so there are sometimes I do work. But I needed him to tell me, yes, it's okay that you do that. It's okay that you make that decision, that choice, because my compulsion is that I need to hear him say it's okay. And we've had to do a lot of work on that. But that idea of that has soared my confidence, not having to check in as much that has soared my abilities in areas I never thought I have talent, talents or or just skills in areas I never thought I would have. ⁓ But when I also let you know, she would always do it with me with like the bigger stuff, with the business and some of the bigger day to day life. but she would also check in with our kids and try to get their reassurance on different things. And it was with everybody, but when you're living with three other people every day, every week, we became the targets of the check-in. And to make sure that everybody was okay. So like, I'll give an example, if the kids disagreed with stuff or with each other type of thing, we always had to leave everything just right. So one of the things that she would always have to make sure the kids did was always give each other a hug before they left the rooms. And unfortunately, there was a point to where we had to stop that. and let them go their separate ways to have you sit in that uncertainty because you wanted to make check in on them to make sure that they were good. Yes. Or if, for example, you know, we're raising two teenagers now and it's a rite of passage of teenagers to disagree with their parents. And so if our if our teenage son had a disagreement with Mark, I would feel like I would have the compulsion to go in and check on our son to make sure that he was OK. because I was already checking in with Mark to make sure he was. And then I would need to force them coming back together to make sure that things felt just right before we could go our separate ways again. And the ideas that we're not doing these kinds of things in our household anymore have been life changing again for not only us, but for our two children as well. And our family is healthier and better off for it too. And some of the aspects that we added in as a family, you we have a boy and a girl is you know, I'm in first position with our boy, you're in first position with the girl. So that that was part of our ways to work around that too, so that it didn't continue to happen with the checking in. Yeah, yes. And she has to be okay when I make a decision or say something that might make her feel uncomfortable and wanting to make sure that everybody was good, that reassurance that everybody is in a good spot. And again, the idea that I had OCD didn't really come to a head until we bought this business and we owned this business for the years that we did. I got the diagnosis while I was trying to run the day-to-day, while I was trying to be the leader and the one in charge and recognizing that I was also quote unquote using my employees to also check in and need reassurances. So for example, one of the women who worked for the company that I owned at the time. She said something to me that was very hurtful at the time. And I have to say, I don't think it's necessarily true, but it's truth adjacent, if you will. So for example, she said to me that she felt like I manipulated people. And at the time it was it was a real it was just a dagger to me. And I couldn't understand why she would say something like that. I'm not a I'm not a person who would. want to be intentionally hurtful to other people and try to manipulate them in different ways. But as I've gone through this journey, I've realized that she's not in my life anymore. And there are lots of reasons why, I her truth, in saying that, it was truth adjacent because I was not manipulating her or I was not trying to manipulate people, but I certainly was trying to. get reassurance from people and I needed to feel like it sounded just right. And so I was often, again, like I discussed earlier, constantly checking in, constantly needing reassurance, even about the same ⁓ things, the same issues, the same items that kept coming up. And I would need to seek that reassurance out. So in a way, it did look like I was trying to be manipulative, but I wasn't. was a symptom of my OCD that at the time I still didn't know. that that's what that was. And so now that I have this this awareness of it, I can look back at that conversation I had with that individual and say, ⁓ wow, that was that felt more truth adjacent than really the full truth. But it does start to really take a toll on your relationships with other people. And you don't even recognize it or think about it. And so I don't live that way anymore. And I'm proud to say that I try my best to work on it every day. even though it's a struggle every day and OCD is not going away anytime soon. And when you run a business and you need to have that reassurance and that checking in, it is very difficult then to make decisions that you hard the hard decisions as a leader that you have to make ⁓ that will definitely upset employees that will definitely possibly upset Yes. You you have to do what is the best for your business or your relationships. And when you have that OCD component to you, it really is kind of a recipe for disaster when you can't get in. When you have a little leadership team and you're always checking for the reassurance, but you need to be that leader. It is very difficult. And myself, I was trying to give that advice, that suggestions, that input ⁓ for Stacey to be able to walk in and put some of that stuff in place. But the OCD was overriding any input that I was giving. I want everybody to know that somebody might be sitting there listening, well, why didn't you just walk in and run the business? I understand you have your own job, but When we did purchase the business, the employees were not, A, they weren't necessarily happy that we purchased the business because the previous owner didn't want any changes to be made or anything like that, but it was never a husband-wife combination, A, owning the business. It was always a single person owning the business. And the old owner's husband would just come in and, you know, pop around, not really making any decisions. And unfortunately, several of these ladies had problems with a male figure in place. And so Stacey and I both agreed in the beginning that I would be more behind the scenes type of person, because if I did walk in there and do what I do on my normal day to day basis, we would have probably lost. you know, over half of the employees because I was a guy. As it stands, the business is gone now and it's closed. And I do have a lot of regrets in that way. I do have things that I look back at and think, wow, I would and could do something so differently now that I've been through this intensive treatment, that I have the awareness that I do. But I am also grateful for the new chapter that Mark and I and our family are entering into. And so... we're trying to put that chapter behind us. know we're trying to put it behind us, it is the chapter that started this chapter. is. It's the door that closed that opened up the other, this one. know, so that, you know, we are fresh into the podcast. This is, you know, episode six. We hope to have many, many, many more and have people join us and share their stories too. And, you know, help expand the OCD community and our experiences and you know, support to other people and hope. when you're going through treatment, hope is a really big piece that you need to have that you hope this is gonna to work and but it takes a lot of hard work to get to the point to where you have you're at now. The past year has not been easy on us. ⁓ You know, you're you're you have to work your muscle. And your brain is your muscle that you have to work and people don't like to go work out. If they like to go work out, they're crazy. you know, but that's just our personal opinion about personal opinion. But, you know, I know there are people that probably love to go work out and, know, just like I love to go sailing and you love to read, you love to write all that. I mean, people love to do that, but ⁓ you have to work your brain. Yes. And it takes work and it takes a community of support. And I had that in Mark. And I had that in our therapist and I had that in our kids and I'm so grateful for that. And so now this podcast really is an opportunity for us to share that support and share that hope with others. So we're really excited and humbled by the fact that we have people out there listening and we'd love to invite more people on to share their journey and their stories, especially ⁓ with a spouse or a loved one who is willing to commit to that exhaustion with them. to help make them feel better about living their day-to-day life and doing it uncertain. You know, and we're also, you know, we are expanding your support group too, to your dad, to my mom, to, you know, your brother and his wife. I don't know lots of... You know, and it's hard to expand to those people that don't deal with you every day. because sometimes they forget and they reassure without knowing that they're reassuring. And as myself, when I hear that reassurance happens, sometimes I've got to keep that in the back of my brain. And when we go to therapy, then I call her out on it and say, well, no, you asked for reassurance of them. And then I get in trouble. when I say trouble, it's a funny ha ha. you know, type of moment. it's our relationship though has made that possible to feel comfortable to kind of call her out on doing it in certain places. And there are some times that we don't even recognize that you've done that. And until we're sitting in therapy and talking about it and. And then that light bulb goes off. like, ⁓ yeah, I did do that. And I will say just to piggyback on what Mark just said, like we've had a really strong marriage for 20 years. And this journey has actually made our relationship, our marriage stronger. We're actually more in love now than I think we ever have been because we've taken on such a big piece that was challenging and made something from it and made it better. Not perfect, but definitely better. And so we are excited to continue this journey and to continue putting our story out there. And I'm hoping to have a space at some point where I put my story out in more written form and start to build a community there too. And I'm excited about doing that. Yeah. So thank you for listening to episode six. Hopefully that inspires, you know, somebody out there that might be struggling with OCD or realize that ⁓ my goodness, you my spouse is checking in all the time or the spouse or the person that has OCD recognizes, ⁓ my goodness, I am checking in all the time. You know, because until somebody brings it to your attention, you don't necessarily know just like your therapist brought it to your attention. And then we started to recognize more and more aspects of your OCD and what was OCD and what wasn't and whatnot. But, you know, we had to we had to talk about it. And the more you know, the more you can get help with it. Exactly. So thank you all so much for living uncertain with us. Have a great day.