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Ranking the Bible · Relish: a Christian podcast

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  Music.
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  To flavor, to be pleased or gratified by, enjoy.
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  We are hoping that what we bring to your table today might add some spice to your life.
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  Rowan, how are you doing today? Doing well, Don. Good. I'm doing all right, too.
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  Now, we thought we'd spice this up just a little bit. You know,
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  most of the time, the comic relief is that I'm given the questions cold, you know?
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  And I thought, maybe, you know, maybe I should give you a question cold. Oh, boy.
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  And part of the bottom baseline of this podcast is the Bible and what the Bible means.
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  So I wonder, so for yourself, and you can speak for your generation if you'd
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  like, where does the Bible rate in how you look at knowledge in the here and now?
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  I mean, you have all your books, geography, philosophy, and things like that.
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  But when you think about how it rates with you and your generation,
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  mainly you, where's the Bible speak?
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  I mean, it doesn't hold as much weight as your geography book. I'm just saying. Yeah.
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  Well, I'm lucky enough to attend a private Christian high school.
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  So we have Bible classes. So
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  we're taught out of the Bible So I think that adds more value to it To me,
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  And, like, the more, like, obviously doing this, talking to you,
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  I'm learning lots more and realizing how much I don't know compared to, like,
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  you and other people. Is that a good thing? Yeah.
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  I didn't know whether that was a good thing or not. I don't like to be told what I don't know.
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  So, I think, I mean, you can't argue with geography. You can't argue with like
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  math equations or anything like that.
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  But I don't think you can really argue with the Bible either.
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  So if you get there, yeah, we'll try to, but it doesn't work out for us.
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  So, but it's good to have a conversation.
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  I mean, just having the conversation is educational.
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  Yeah. Yeah. Teaches you so much more.
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  Yeah. Good. Good answer. I like that. We might spice up the next broadcast. You never know.
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  So will you have any questions for me today? Back to how we like it here.
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  Back to how you like it, okay. Well, yeah. Well, I wouldn't be here if I didn't
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  somehow like it. Yeah, right. Yeah.
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  All right. So what are the points behind believers' baptism compared to infant baptism?
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  Why do we as Anabaptists, Mennonites believe in believers' baptism? Okay.
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  So we would take the first part because that's how John did it and how Jesus did.
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  I mean, Jesus didn't have to be baptized. I mean, really? I think about it. Yeah.
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  Jesus, of all people, did not need to be baptized. But he said he did it as an example to us.
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  So in Matthew 4. Yeah.
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  No, that's not it. Oh, yes, here it is.
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  Matthew chapter 3, excuse me, verse 13 following.
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  Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John,
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  but John tried to deter him, saying, I need to be baptized by you.
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  And do you come to me? Jesus replied, let it be so now.
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  It is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.
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  And so we take that to mean that since Jesus did this as an adult,
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  he did it in part as an example for what this baptism is supposed to be like.
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  It's supposed to be us as believers confirming our faith before the people around us.
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  And we know that God thought this was pretty good.
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  And he said, this is my son whom I love, and I'm well pleased with him.
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  And so we do that as an adult.
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  Because we reflect on the fact that it needs to be a decision.
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  Christ talked about our discipleship as being something that we would need to
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  weigh out as if we were going to carry our cross, take up our own cross and follow him.
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  After we're baptized, we work at our discipleship. And that's an adult thing,
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  not so much a child thing.
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  We then talk about the children in light of, verses like Matthew 18, 1 to 10.
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  Where Jesus is being confronted, if you will, with children.
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  The disciples came to Jesus and asked, who's the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
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  And he called a little child and had him stand before among them.
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  And he said, I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little
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  children, you'll never enter the kingdom of heaven, which means evidently then
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  as the children are already in a state that are welcome in the kingdom.
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  So that's why we figure kids are all right at that point.
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  We talk about an age of accountability, and that's when they do something wrong,
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  and they know they did something wrong.
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  And they then can make that decision to follow Christ on their own,
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  rather than doing it on mom and dad's short tails, coattails.
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  It becomes their unique, authentic faith.
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  It's no longer just riding on mom and dad. So do you know why it was long before
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  anabaptism and believer's baptism, why it was infant baptism?
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  I do. What did they go to? So what happened in the Constantinian era and following
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  was when church and state sort of became one unit,
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  what happened was it was really easy to create your taxation rolls by your birth rolls.
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  So, if you made it mandatory for people to bring their babies to the church
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  for baptism as infants, then their name gets on that roll.
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  Then that roll could be used for taxation.
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  Then you knew, oh, Seymour and his wife had a kid.
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  And we know because they had it baptized last week. And so now that kid is able
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  to be, oh, it was born this day in this region. And now we know there's a kid
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  there that didn't used to be there.
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  And so that kid gets to a certain age and it can be taxed accordingly.
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  So it kept their census up, if you will. This is like government efficiency.
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  And that's why when we came to the time of the Anabaptists working at the Believer's
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  Baptism piece in 1525, part of it was that it was separation of church and state.
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  It was no longer just about, well, this is what you do in church.
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  It was because it affected the state so. And even cantons and countries that
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  had gone from Catholicism to Lutheranism were still using infant baptism because
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  that still was a church-state question.
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  So that when Zwingli was working at it in Zurich and dealing with this question,
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  it had to do with a compromise to the state.
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  And so that's why Zwingli was making sure the canton of Zurich stayed with infant baptism.
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  Even though it seems like in the debate, every once in a while,
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  he agreed with the guys, Mons and Grable and Mons and Blaurock,
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  that, you know, infant baptism or believer's baptism is a thing. It's all right.
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  So it, yeah. Good question. Man, that was a meaty question. Yeah.
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  Yeah. Yeah. So it's kind of just the way it just was and has been.
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  It was and has been. And then, of course, if you take up that cause,
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  then you have to justify it in Scripture.
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  And so their justification in Scripture is in Acts where the jailer and his
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  whole family were baptized by Paul.
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  And so then that becomes the proof for that.
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  Interesting. Which I, yeah, in that situation, we don't know that there were
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  any babies in that house.
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  I mean, they could have all been 18 and more, but the household was baptized. Yeah.
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  Provocative question. Yeah. Good for this time. You're good at this. Did you notice that?
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  You end up with more time on your questions than you think you're going to have sometimes.
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  I do. Usually I plan for quite a few more questions and Don just keeps on rambling.
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  Don just keeps on rambling. I'm sorry. That's the way it goes.
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  I do like the ones that I can answer with book, chapter, and verse.
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  Those are the ones I really like. Yeah. It's impressive to watch too.
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  Yeah. We'll just pass that down to you so that you can do that. Yeah.
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  If someone were to do something good for the wrong reasons, like out of their
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  own pride, they did something that is a good act. Is it still a good thing?
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  No, I think Jesus has to say that it depends on what your heart is.
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  You know, in Matthew chapter six, he talks about having treasures in heaven
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  and he makes it very clear that no one can serve two masters.
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  He either will hate the one, this is verse 24, 6, either he will hate one and
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  love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other.
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  You cannot serve both God and money.
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  The motivation there tells itself.
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  If you even go back farther in chapter 6, he's talking about good things like
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  prayer and fasting and giving to the needy.
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  And he's saying, do it in secret. You don't want that done out in the public.
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  And so I think Jesus would say, hey, you know, it's not for the,
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  if you're doing it for pride, you're doing it for the wrong reason.
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  He's saying, go in your closet for praying. You don't need to do it on the street
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  corners. So everybody sees it.
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  Don't make sure that you sound a horn when you do your giving,
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  because nobody needs to really know you're giving.
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  When he talks about fasting and verse 16 and following, he says,
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  well, don't look like you're fasting like the hypocrites do look, you know,
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  even if you're fasting, make sure you wash your face and guzzy,
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  guzzy, guzzy, guzzy yourself up.
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  That comes out of my generation and don't look like you're fasting because it's
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  a, it's not a genuine motive, not a genuine motive. Yeah.
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  Sort of a flip of what James says in chapter three, because he talks about making
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  sure that you keep the whole law and that you, is it James three or two?
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  I think it's two. Now that I think about it.
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  Yep. What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims he has faith but has no deeds, that kind of thing?
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  No, it's before that. Here. For whoever keeps the whole law yet stumbles at
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  least one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
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  It's like our motives have to be pure. What's behind our doing has to be genuine. It can't be.
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  God knows. I mean, Hebrews chapter four, he knows what we believe.
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  He knows our genuine heart.
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  Right to the core so we are not gonna fool god at any level we might fool a
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  couple people around us but we're never gonna fool god yeah that's good cool
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  so with when you mentioned when you pray,
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  like it says go up in your room lock your door and like pray is it bad to pray
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  in public still Like if you're, I know it's not bad or something and you,
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  I mean, my family and I, when we ate out, we pray in public.
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  We don't shout the prayer in public, but we do pray in public as a family.
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  I'm not going to be bashful about praying.
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  I won't sound a horn and let everybody know, hey, the Patterson family are going
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  to pray now. You got to all be quiet. That's not going to happen. Yeah.
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  But, yeah, we'll pray. I'm not. I did have a lady one time in one of my congregations
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  come up to me and say, I really object to people praying at the table in my restaurant.
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  Because it keeps my waitresses hung up for a period of time because they have
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  to wait until you're done praying so they could lay the things on your table.
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  And so it disrupts their flow.
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  And I said, oh, okay. I'll be mindful of that.
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  I'll make sure that we pray maybe before we order so that we aren't messing
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  up your waitresses and waiters at your restaurant.
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  But she was adamant, you know, you shouldn't pray in public because that messes
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  up the flow of the business. It's interesting.
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  I thought it was an interesting take. Yeah, it was interesting.
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  I've not had that come from any other source before or after.
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  Yeah, I bet. All right, we'll do one more here maybe. Yeah. Let's see how wordy Don gets.
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  What spiritual practices should we use outside of church during the week?
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  Like what has worked for you in your time?
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  Okay. Well, you know, I've talked about the seven things that are the actions of a disciple.
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  And one of those, I think, like the very first one, Jesus says,
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  if you keep my teachings, you will be my disciples. He says that in John chapter 8, I think it's 31.
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  So keep in the word, take time, maybe it'll be a half hour, maybe it's an hour,
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  maybe you only have 15 minutes, but the process of getting the word in our minds is important.
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  So it's either a memory or it can be reading and reflection,
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  writing in a journal, but some activity that is around God's word.
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  And then the second piece would be some kind of prayer time.
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  Did you ask for two or three?
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  How many you want? Three? Anything, whatever. Well, the second time,
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  the second part is prayer.
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  And by that, it doesn't mean you're talking to God, but I'm saying the kind
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  of prayer time where you're in relationship with God and not only can he hear
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  what you have on your heart,
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  but you give enough silence to
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  allow God to share his heart and allow him space and just ask him, Lord,
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  can you give me words, visions, a piece of scripture?
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  Something that you want me to carry with me today.
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  And so that prayer then not only is a one-way street, it's a way of receiving what God has for you.
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  Boy, that's powerfully important. The third piece would be carry some kind of
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  dialogue with somebody about the Lord in a day. Just have that intent behind you.
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  I'm going to have a conversation about Jesus with somebody today.
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  That's always, if you have that mindset, it changes how you look at the conversations
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  you're going to have over the course of the day. Right, yeah.
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  There's, you know, five other things we could do. But there's,
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  at least those first two, make sure you have those in your day.
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  To me, that makes us much deeper Christians to get in the Word and to get into prayer.
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  Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you, as always, for your time, Don. Sure.
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  Thank you for the questions. Yeah. And we'll see if we can get one for you next
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  time, too. Maybe. We'll see. Yeah.
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  Maybe. He was much more sheepish after that first question.
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  And we hope to see you next time. Lord well.
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  Thank you for joining us for this podcast. Feel free to become part of this
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  ministry by sharing it with others. Our goal is to help each other grow deeper
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  in our understanding of who God is and is calling to us in our daily lives Thank
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  you again for joining us and may God bless your day.