Latest / The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine / CCM Fantasy Draft

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CCM Fantasy Draft · The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine

• 0:30
  All right today, I am so excited for this. I feel like we
• 0:33
  haven't done a fantasy draft in a wild Culin, and we are going to
• 0:37
  do not just any fantasy draft. We're going to do a c c M
• 0:42
  fantasy draft, Contemporary Christian Music fantasy draft. Culin and I were always sort
• 0:47
  of adjacent to this music scene, but because we grew up in the church,
• 0:50
  like you can't help but know a lot of these bands, a lot
• 0:53
  of these artists, and a lot of this music. So it's going to
• 0:56
  be really fun to reminisce and you know, talk some shit. So we've
• 1:00
  got two wonderful participants that are going to be joining us. I'm really excited
• 1:04
  for them. Let's first, Oh my god, you're already making an argument,
• 1:08
  all right, Sarah, uh wow. Let's can you just introduce yourself,
• 1:12
  say what you do in the world and why you would have chosen to
• 1:17
  hang out for an hour or two with Culin and Mason and talk about CCM.
• 1:22
  What Why would you choose to do something like that in your life?
• 1:26
  Mostly because you kept hounding me, Mason, that is true. I did
• 1:30
  hand you so. I I do love your Twitter feed like it's it's evangelical
• 1:38
  like analysis the world and UM, you're funny. So that's why I'm doing
• 1:47
  this. Um. I am, yeah, one PR correspondent, and I
• 1:53
  was given promission to do this, but I was told no, I'm not
• 1:57
  here to mock any anybody or any or of music. But I have,
• 2:00
  like, you know, a lot of the music that I grew up with.
• 2:06
  Um. I grew up in the eighties and nineties in a cantondeological community
• 2:12
  and school and church and all all that, and so there was except when
• 2:19
  I snuck out up to my parents car and listen to you know, the
• 2:23
  radio. So I cannot promise to know about anything new. I'm happy to
• 2:30
  talk about old stuff. Well that's why we brought you on board. Also,
• 2:35
  can I just say, very quickly, there was a time, I
• 2:38
  don't know, several months ago, maybe a year ago now, where you
• 2:40
  had like replied to one of my tweets, and Culin messaged me and said,
• 2:45
  you know, Sarah McCammon, And I'm like, yeah, we've been
• 2:49
  following each other for a while now, and he was like, I love
• 2:53
  her reporting. I'm like, this is the first time I ever thought Colin.
• 2:58
  I never knew that Culin was an MPR reader, and all of a
• 3:00
  sudden I find out he's, uh, you know, some white liberal from
• 3:05
  the East Coast and listen to M here every day. I guess, um,
• 3:09
  like I said, so, uh yeah, I mean I don't.
• 3:14
  I report on the even andandelical stuff and culture and politics, um which I
• 3:22
  think back background and perspective is helpful in trying to understand kind of the world
• 3:27
  as it is today. But I think CCM is one of the the better,
• 3:32
  more fun parts. So happy to talk about it, but it is
• 3:36
  fun. It's it's so much fun. And Kevin T. Porter, who
• 3:39
  are you? And there you trying to hide from us right now? Oh?
• 3:44
  No one in articular. Maybe it's coming right behind me, rest empowered
• 3:51
  King. Obviously it goes without saying Kevin T. Porter, I host a
• 3:54
  good Christian fun podcast where we talk about contemporary Christian music as well as other
• 4:02
  pieces of evangelical Christian pop culture, all the time on a weekly basis.
• 4:09
  Mason, we had you on a little bit ago. Was that a year
• 4:12
  ago? Two years ago? Like a year and a half ago? Now,
• 4:14
  yeah, we were, In fact, we talked about the CCM documentary.
• 4:17
  Oh that's right. We oh we talked about it, did Jesus Music.
• 4:21
  I believe it's yeah, And when we fun fact, Mason, I
• 4:26
  don't think I followed up with you on this when we uh, when we
• 4:30
  interviewed the directors of that, I believe it's the Irwin Brothers directed that documentary
• 4:34
  and we asked them why they wanted to make it. They did say we
• 4:38
  wanted to focus on like the big you know, dreamers and entrepreneurs of music.
• 4:44
  So the vision is like, well, you know, we really cared
• 4:48
  about these guys who wanted to make a lot of money and figured out how
• 4:51
  to do it, which is uh. Was beautiful to hear from their from
• 4:56
  their own the raw honesty of that wonderful, Oh it was. It was
• 5:01
  so lovely and really inspiring that you two can make money via faith as we've
• 5:06
  all monetized our interests in different ways happily. Isn't that fun? That's true
• 5:12
  love, That's true. Well, let's let's go over the rules really quick.
• 5:15
  For those who have never heard one of our Fantasy Draft episodes, Basically,
• 5:19
  what we're trying to do is each one of us is going to pick
• 5:24
  from every genre of or like a couple of different genres of CCM music,
• 5:29
  and we're going to try to assemble the best team, just kind of like
• 5:31
  a NFL fantasy draft or any other type of fantasy draft where you pick different
• 5:35
  players and you try to make the best team. That's what we're trying to
• 5:39
  do here. So we've got our p preselected rounds. We're going to about
• 5:44
  about to find out our order here. In a second, Clum's going to
• 5:46
  give us our order, and then we're just gonna snake draft it where the
• 5:50
  first person who goes in the first round is going to go last in the
• 5:54
  second round. Uh and uh, so on and so forth. So we've
• 5:58
  got our four rounds. We're really really stoked. Uh and we've got Carmen
• 6:01
  just right in our faces. And I'm sure it's that's gonna be the case
• 6:05
  literally this entire time. Uh So, Uh, there's gonna be a lot
• 6:10
  of arguing, which I think is great. It's gonna be a lot of
• 6:13
  fun, a lot of fun stories about CCM. Are we ready to go?
• 6:17
  Let's do it? Shall we pray before? You know, well,
• 6:23
  we'll pray after well, we'll we'll do our prayer group after Okay, Okay,
• 6:27
  I'll just say real quick rub a dub daft. Thanks for the draft.
• 6:30
  Amen. All right, Cullen, what's our order? All right?
• 6:35
  So already did the first two while you were kind of going through the spield
• 6:38
  there. So first is going to be Kevin, second is going to be
• 6:43
  Sarah right now it is me, no way, yep. And last will
• 6:55
  be of course you Mason, that is our or and the last Shelby first,
• 7:03
  go off? What's saying the third Shelby second? In the second round?
• 7:14
  It's not beautiful? That's my favorite verse. All right, Kevin?
• 7:18
  Uh, we're gonna go with pop. So any CCM pop artist get to
• 7:25
  take them number one right out of the gate. Who is it going to
• 7:29
  be? Kevin? An embarrassment of riches here. I I did not.
• 7:33
  I promise you this is the only one I actually cared about getting when doing
• 7:39
  this draft, and I did not think I'd have the opportunity to But of
• 7:42
  course you know I'm drafting her Amy, No, no, I gotta have
• 7:48
  her. I got her music, her music, you know, listen,
• 7:53
  she's happily married. Um. I had the pleasure of talking to Amy on
• 7:59
  our podcas yes a few years ago, and my little anecdote I'll share from
• 8:03
  that is. She was quite a delight hers setup. It's usually, I'm
• 8:09
  sure we've all experienced it. Usually the more famous the person it is,
• 8:11
  the shittier they're setup is like it's in inverse proportion to like whatever their stats
• 8:18
  is, like their tech level, immaculate lighting, immaculate audio. We had
• 8:24
  to pick from two audio sources that her producer sent us post an interview,
• 8:28
  and she was just like a very had a very soulful way of talking about
• 8:35
  everything. And I had a little snapfoo, which is that I shaved off
• 8:39
  half of my mustache before, like minutes before the interview. This was on
• 8:43
  Zoom, but I did shave off half of it, and she when we
• 8:48
  pointed out, and she said, yeah, I didn't notice that, and
• 8:52
  I wanted to talk about that. She shared a long anecdote about how Cheryl
• 8:56
  Crowe said to her, you know, because they're friends, evidently that of
• 9:01
  course she said, I try to observe now without judgment, and I think
• 9:05
  that's what we should do for our neighbors. Just try to observe and listen
• 9:07
  without judgment. So when I saw you, I just said, hey,
• 9:11
  that's what he wanted to do with this face today. So that was I
• 9:15
  got dragged to Phil by the queen of Christian Pop, Amy Grant, And
• 9:18
  of course I'm only talking about the extra textual elements. Obviously I love her
• 9:22
  music. Obviously, I love Baby Baby. I even love some of the
• 9:26
  later work. And I did get to see her alive in Anaheim last year
• 9:30
  and that was a real treat for me. So Amy Grant is my pick,
• 9:33
  first draft pick for the pop category. I know we're supposed to argue,
• 9:37
  but that's really hard to argue, really truly the queen of Christian pop.
• 9:43
  I mean, I don't I think it's inarguable. I mean, you
• 9:46
  can be mad that you don't have her, but I don't think you can,
• 9:50
  yeah, a little mad. And I was gonna do that thing where
• 9:52
  I'm like, yeah, but have you ever talked to her? But you
• 9:56
  have? Have you ever embarrassingly cut off half your mustache? Remove all of
• 10:03
  my mustache? Every day? Mortified? Every day? I have it A
• 10:09
  like he has more of one than I do now. But um, I've
• 10:15
  met Amy and my can I just heard while or anything, but also a
• 10:18
  huge fan. Um. She did a tiny desk concert and pr sad.
• 10:24
  I think a Christmas album coming out and I was everybody like, let's pr
• 10:31
  was tiny desk, like not my work, not my research wars, not
• 10:33
  my like covering stressful into a tiny desk, and um, the fact is
• 10:39
  that like, yeah, we get to go to them sometimes, but after
• 10:43
  work. So like I had a super busy day, I can't remember what
• 10:46
  I was doing doing and I couldn't come to her concert and I was brushed
• 10:50
  back to this UM headquarters and got there at the last minute. They were
• 10:56
  like wrapping up, and I got to like run up to her and be
• 10:58
  like a I mean I was, I was raised event telical um. But
• 11:05
  there's a picture of us on Instagram where she is holding a tight on a
• 11:09
  plate date because I think she was finishing her snack when I like just had
• 11:16
  to be here. So um, yeah, I love her. I still
• 11:22
  like as when I'm having a rough day. She's just and she's just a
• 11:26
  good per person from what I can tell. I mean, she's so good
• 11:30
  that she will not even judge you for shaving off only half your mustache.
• 11:33
  We all deserve such mercy in our lives, don't. I don't know if
• 11:37
  you do, but I will say this, here's my argument against Amy Grant.
• 11:43
  We all know that the most important award is the Dove Award. Yeah,
• 11:50
  we all know that A has not come anywhere near winning the most amount
• 11:58
  of Devil Awards. She might be the best selling Christian artist of all time,
• 12:03
  but she is nowhere near the best double award winner. She has twenty
• 12:09
  six double awards yea, and she doesn't even she almost She's got half as
• 12:16
  much as the next guy. So it is, I don't know. Here.
• 12:20
  Here's one other funny observation, because I guess the trade off with her
• 12:24
  is that she has actual mainstream recognition in the way that many of the artists
• 12:28
  will talk about today are absolutely thirsty for. When we add her on our
• 12:33
  show, we played a clip of an episode thirty Rock where Tina Fey's character
• 12:37
  Liz Lemon makes name grant joke in reference and she said, oh, I've
• 12:41
  never heard that before. That's funny. Can you imagine being so unbothered that
• 12:48
  when you know one of the more famous comedians of our time makes a joke
• 12:52
  about you, you don't hear about it until like a decade plus later.
• 12:56
  As an unbelievable as in state of mind that I aspired to every day.
• 13:01
  There's that and There's also the fact that every Heartbeat has been covered by not
• 13:03
  only Donna Summers, the Queen of disco, but also Jessica Simpson. Really
• 13:13
  did every heartbeat, Oh my god, I remember. I don't know if
• 13:20
  any of you guys can remember, though, but like there was like real
• 13:24
  control in the evangelical world back in the day. So like I massive was
• 13:31
  born in eighty one when this was happening, and I remember like there was
• 13:35
  chatter, you know, among the like she wore pants that were too tight,
• 13:41
  she you know, allegedly you know, I mean, all this stuff
• 13:46
  that was very taboo, um and in that world, and even to her
• 13:52
  song like that that's become really make extream and as you say, a lot
• 13:56
  of people aspire. I remember growing up hearing people say, you know,
• 14:01
  Amy Grant doesn't a voice, some of hers should be about about Jesus.
• 14:05
  And but that wasn't you know, that wasn't everybody. I also remember,
• 14:11
  like I hate memory of this friend from our church who, um, I
• 14:16
  was caring for her husband who has the car accident. I mean, he
• 14:18
  was paraply after this accident and she was caring for him. I'm very devot
• 14:24
  putting the song on Um, that's what love was for, you know,
• 14:30
  uh in the car and her daughter on a weekend or something, and you
• 14:33
  know, just I think he felt about her husband, who you know was
• 14:41
  was Um, they were going into such a rough Amy I also meant a
• 14:45
  whole lot to people, and not everybody thought about her that way, but
• 14:48
  I think one of the things that strong and kind she had remained through all
• 14:54
  of that. Um, it's not kind of turned on you, you know,
• 15:00
  but yeah, she's a cool human human being for sure. She is
• 15:05
  awesome. All right, Uh, Sarah number two, number two pick in
• 15:09
  the pop category. Amy Grant is off the board, So I don't know
• 15:13
  where you're gonna go with this. Yeah, I mean that would have been
• 15:16
  my number one, but it's that's also really obvious. Um there obvious one,
• 15:22
  and it's almost feel like it's too obvious. But it's from the heart.
• 15:26
  Michael W. Smith and you know, he and Amy Grant. Grant
• 15:31
  were kind of like two of them were like the icons in my early adolescence
• 15:39
  of I really don't think there was anybody to pay that outpaced either one of
• 15:43
  them. Change ninety two was the first, I believe, the first CD
• 15:50
  I ever owned. I think I got it from my birthday at the Christian
• 15:56
  bookstore for the zonder Van. Do you guys remember this dravan? Yeah,
• 16:02
  yeah, yeah, it was a thing. Um yeah. And my room
• 16:11
  well so we didn't actually actually have a CD player, and my my dad
• 16:14
  would take the CDs and like it's like this is how old I am,
• 16:18
  um um, and and bring the tape home. So I had like everything
• 16:23
  and like star studying it, you know, you know, like every word
• 16:26
  and all the lyrics, like do you guys are you old enough to remember
• 16:33
  Brio and Breakaway Mac Magazine from Focus on the Fani Breakaway Breakaway? Yeah,
• 16:40
  I got bris in my closet right now, Sarah, for real, I
• 16:42
  got a stack of bru. That's true. I'll do it. I'm serious.
• 16:47
  Get one. Why okay, all right, I'll go get one.
• 16:49
  Why what I do? Have Brio in your closet? I was gifted them
• 16:55
  by Listener gifted, but you know it was because his brio was like,
• 17:00
  on the one hand, trying to be like alternative to teen in magazine or
• 17:07
  like teen Vogue today, trying to be very wholesome and pure purity culture.
• 17:15
  But like I put like Michael W. Smith on the front of one of
• 17:21
  the magazines and kind of like a fully clothed and everything, but like you
• 17:26
  could tell they were trying to be like the slight like rules, weren't not
• 17:30
  blesting after him, you know what I mean? Um yeah, but it
• 17:37
  is um. But I truly, like I love the music. I haven't
• 17:42
  grown up to finally have like a CD that was kind of you know,
• 17:47
  a pop d D into the you know, secular secular music. So Michael
• 17:53
  Grand Michael let Be Smith, was it an Amy Grant? Unbelievable argument?
• 18:00
  Colin? You you mentioned the Devil Award thing. I think the person that
• 18:03
  is above or tops Amy in that way is Michael W. Smith. Am
• 18:08
  I right? There's a number of people that are above Amy Grant in the
• 18:11
  novel award wins, but Michael W. Smith has forty of them. No,
• 18:17
  I'm looking at Wikipedia says he has forty five, forty five. I'm
• 18:22
  sure that there there are conflicting arguments because like some of them are about,
• 18:26
  like you know, the music video does like you count the same music video
• 18:29
  and the song if they win for both. I don't know. Oh yeah,
• 18:32
  so that makes sense. But still it's funny. It's so funny.
• 18:37
  How many dovel awards you can have? And it's like it starts to sound
• 18:42
  like junk mail when you're like, yeah, this this star's got ninety devil
• 18:48
  Like when you hear someone's like, oh, you know, Francis mcgorman actually
• 18:51
  has three oscars, You're like, oh my god, how accomplishes that?
• 18:53
  Michael Smith has forty? Yeah, It's it's like it's like the cheap and
• 19:00
  they cheapened their own awards show by doing it that way. Almost. It's
• 19:03
  it's like he made his own award show and was like, all right,
• 19:07
  how can I find a way to win all of the awards for my own
• 19:11
  awards show? Does anyone watch the was like award watching party like they would
• 19:18
  with like the Grammy answer the oscars? Um? I knew that DC Talk
• 19:23
  was reuniting in twenty sixteen, so I watched part of that one. But
• 19:29
  no, I don't think people like get together and actually watch those. But
• 19:32
  maybe they do. I bet you. I bet you there's some churches around
• 19:34
  there that definitely do that. It probably depends on how close you live to
• 19:38
  Colorado Springs and Nashville. Right, it sounds like a good idea for an
• 19:44
  episode Gang don't burn it here. Actually, that is a great idea,
• 19:48
  A watch along. Come on now, Yeah, could you have to have
• 19:52
  a DEVI Award drinking game though, like or is that antithetical loan to the
• 19:57
  whole? I think it's drea Every time Michael W. Smith wins ten more
• 20:02
  rewards, so you'd take like four shots within one ceremony. That'd be a
• 20:08
  fun time. We wouldn't make it through the episode. Let's let's hear the
• 20:11
  arguments against Michael W. Smith, regardless of the fact that it's a great
• 20:15
  pick. I have Michael W. Smith more in the worship category solely because
• 20:22
  his best selling albums and what do I think that he's most known for.
• 20:26
  Maybe, Sarah, you have a different thought, just because you're from a
• 20:30
  slightly earlier generation. I wonder if maybe he shouldn't have been in the worship
• 20:37
  category. I mean, his early stuff kind of sounds like he's like ripping
• 20:41
  off John Cougar, Mellencamp or something like that. But his later stuff,
• 20:44
  I mean is is pretty much just like straight up worship music. I don't
• 20:48
  know. And by later I mean like the last thirty years. Sorry I
• 20:52
  don't mean to cut you off. Yeah, he was crossing over on the
• 20:56
  pop radio and I'm trying to think, like Friends, guys, that was
• 21:04
  I think that was on that album. Sorry that I wasn't a crossover one.
• 21:10
  How was the crossover one? Friends crossed over a good amount because it
• 21:14
  just became an end of camp song. Yeah, what's the one where he's
• 21:17
  like, there's like a there's one where he's got like a music video and
• 21:18
  he's like walking through a field, um with Oh you're you're thinking of secret
• 21:22
  ambitions, sir, that's the one. I'm thinking of that little girly stumble.
• 21:29
  I'm sure. Oh sure, he's a stumbling block for sure. Yeah,
• 21:33
  Kevin, you already watching the encyclopedia of CCM music. I can't believe
• 21:37
  this. Like you, Colin could probably say the most vague thing right now
• 21:40
  about CCM and you're like, oh, that's like that. That's uh,
• 21:42
  that's actually from Michael w fourth album in the like the second track in nineteen
• 21:48
  eighty nine. It's like, where do you even know this? Listen?
• 21:53
  We have to stare this stuff in the face all the time on our show,
• 21:56
  and it is like staring. It's like looking into the sun and we're
• 22:00
  going blind as we do it each week is looking at us like Michael W.
• 22:04
  Smith is looking at us right now. I mean he's daddy, right,
• 22:08
  we can we can safely say that Michael Daddy Smith. Uh, you
• 22:15
  know, I'm trying for which song? Well? And if not, I
• 22:21
  think go West jung Manan was that the one like a few years earlier or
• 22:26
  when I would like them? Um, I think Sarah, you might be
• 22:32
  thinking a place in this world? Yeah, like that that was a big
• 22:36
  crop. He hadn't a fact check us all because that had that had contemporary
• 22:42
  like non non Christian radio play as well. Yeah. Yeah, the same
• 22:48
  criticism as Amy for doing Crossing for music for the record. True, I
• 22:52
  could be wrong, true, but her big stuff was her biggest stuff was
• 22:56
  actually pop music. I think that's good. Actually I did have him in
• 23:00
  my more worship stuff. But also again, I think it probably is a
• 23:03
  generational difference, so I think it probably could go either way. But regardless
• 23:08
  wherever Michael W. Smith lands, whether it's pop or worship, he needs
• 23:12
  to be picked picked in this draft for sure. Yeah. Yeah, we
• 23:17
  don't have a daddy category though, and if we did, I think we
• 23:21
  all know what I've been taking. Maybe you can add it for the next
• 23:26
  draft. Next time. Well, we'll rethink it next time. Number number
• 23:33
  three. Pick yeah, number pop category. Who is it going to be?
• 23:36
  I feel like there's one obvious choice right now, and I can't believe
• 23:38
  it hasn't been picked yet. I'm gonna I'm just gonna pick what I want
• 23:41
  to pick. I don't really care about, you know, the what what's
• 23:45
  expected to be picked? The approval of Man thirty eight Dove Awards coming for
• 23:52
  Michael W. Smith Toby Mack Mack. I think that if you talk about
• 24:00
  an artist that has had very good crossover, um, it is by far
• 24:06
  just like, I mean, straight up a pop artist. I mean,
• 24:07
  some people want to say he's a rapper, and I'm like, I,
• 24:11
  yeah, he can rap, but he doesn't really do that in any of
• 24:15
  his songs. Great great hooks, great tunes, catchy stuff. I mean,
• 24:19
  I listened to him a lot growing up, and uh, and I
• 24:22
  didn't feel like a total loser when I did. So I appreciate Toby Mack
• 24:26
  for that. Okay, there's a lot. There's a lot here. Yeah.
• 24:33
  The fact that you're you're making the argument that Toby mac isn't first and
• 24:37
  foremost associated with hip hop is I'm not saying. I'm not saying he's not,
• 24:41
  but go listen to his music. His music is not. He's singing
• 24:45
  almost all of it. He's not rapping. But yes, that being said,
• 24:51
  but I think you can sing within the genre of hip hop, right,
• 24:53
  Yeah. But I'm saying, like, if if ninety six percent of
• 24:56
  the time you're singing and four percent of the time you're you're rapping, you're
• 25:00
  a singer, not not a rapper. I think maybe this is almost like
• 25:03
  a reverse thing of what we're describing with Michael W. Smith, where it's
• 25:07
  like the first two or three decades of his career he was mister pop guy
• 25:11
  alongside Amy Grant, and then the last three he's been mister worship guy.
• 25:15
  Toby Mac was so many white people's on ramp into hip hop culturally, and
• 25:22
  and I think we all remember a moment in each of our individual lives in
• 25:26
  which we were like DC Talk, okay, and then there's not talking about
• 25:30
  talking. I know, but here's what I'm saying. Here's what I'm saying.
• 25:33
  We all remember listening to DC Talk and listening to one of the rap
• 25:36
  breaks and then looking at picture of them and it's like, oh that that
• 25:38
  one's probably the rapper, right and some and be like, no, it's
• 25:41
  the other one being like him, he's a rapper the trio. So I
• 25:48
  don't know what you're talking about. I don't. I don't quite understand where
• 25:52
  you where your logic is here? Can you explain this a little from I
• 25:56
  think I'll rest my case. But like when George W. Bush, Bill
• 25:59
  Clinton, and Barack Obama get together and hang out, yeah, which art,
• 26:04
  Yeah, it's it's just Toby Mac at least for me, most which
• 26:14
  is like the most famous Christian rap group. So for that reason, I
• 26:19
  rap not. Yeah, I'll take your I'll take your your arguments into consideration
• 26:26
  and I'll crumple them up and throw them in the trash. I mean I
• 26:33
  did. I did have him in both categories as somebody I could have picked.
• 26:37
  So that does say, you know, he did kind of crossover and
• 26:38
  at least between the genres. Maybe not. I mean, he did definitely
• 26:41
  crossover in the mainstream, but my goodness, yeah, he kind of like
• 26:47
  like Teeters, both of those worlds pretty well totally. So yeah, like
• 26:51
  I get the arguments both sides, Like I get your argument, and I
• 26:53
  also get the argument that he was actually a hip hop artist on many sides,
• 26:59
  on many I'm I'm gonna play the ball. I'm playing the both sides.
• 27:03
  We got to get through this episode, so I'm gonna go right away.
• 27:07
  And it's been a half hour. I know we've got a ways to
• 27:11
  go, all right, to uh expedite this thing. I'm actually gonna go
• 27:18
  right off of Cullen. And I thought the obvious choice here was DC Talk.
• 27:22
  I mean, talk about a band an artist that completely crossed over.
• 27:29
  I mean they were on freaking MTV like that. That is ah, when
• 27:33
  when Christian music starts getting on MTV, that's when you know that Christian artist
• 27:38
  has made it Like that is that's the next level stuff. And in fact,
• 27:41
  here's my argument against Toby maccullin. The biggest argument I think is you
• 27:45
  said he has thirty eight dev Awards. Yeah, more than half of those
• 27:49
  have come because of DC Talk. So I think DC talk should actually yes,
• 27:56
  yes, so I think I think DC Talk should overtake at least Toby
• 28:03
  Mack in that regard because of double awards. But even more so, I
• 28:07
  mean, if you were a kid in the nineties and you were a Christian
• 28:08
  you knew who DC Talk was. I mean, it was just ubiquitous with
• 28:12
  Christian culture at that time. And as much as Michael W. Smith is
• 28:18
  a great pick and completely influenced that culture, as much as even Amy Grant
• 28:23
  influenced that culture in the eighties and nineties, I don't know if one band
• 28:26
  influenced a decade of music in the Christian world more than DC Talk did in
• 28:33
  the nineties. I mean that that was such a big deal when, especially
• 28:34
  when Jesus Freak came out. So anyway, I think it's probably the first
• 28:41
  marketed Christian band that ended up on MTV, certainly before what probably Jars of
• 28:45
  Clay. No, I think they got on, but Jesus Freak came out
• 28:52
  in ninety five, so maybe it was that the same year. I am
• 28:56
  curious now it was a Jargia Clay with flood or was it? Was it
• 29:02
  arms Race? This is like the space race of Ccnly it was freaking DC
• 29:10
  Talk. Anyway, It's like, what do you call it? The album
• 29:15
  that was named after them? Is that even the right word? The album
• 29:18
  called the eighty nelf title, Yes, that was eighty nine, But I
• 29:25
  don't know when the Garmo and Key was the first Christian band in the US
• 29:29
  who's video appeared on MTV. Made a video for their single six six six
• 29:33
  off their nineteen eighty four release communications, Really we are wade behind de Garmo
• 29:41
  and Key. I don't I don't know. I was de Garmo and Key.
• 29:45
  Well, never mind, I was gonna say, where's the Wikipedia page
• 29:48
  from Kevin here? They have a great song called Destined to Win. The
• 29:55
  de Garmo of Degarmon Key is Diana de Garmo's uncle. I want to say
• 30:00
  from American Idol, if we remember that season three round of American Idol,
• 30:06
  Uh yeah, they're They're okay, they're fine. They weren't really my cup
• 30:10
  of tea? All right, arguments half as many double awards as as Toby
• 30:17
  Mack. Yeah but no, no, what Toby Toby Max doub awards almost
• 30:26
  all of over half of them came because he was part of DC Talk.
• 30:29
  I don't know. I'd have to go back and look, are the are
• 30:32
  the thirty eight solo or are the thirty thirty eight including his DC talk double
• 30:37
  ward? Double Awards? Thing? Is a really to measure this because it's
• 30:45
  like that doesn't necessarily match how people felt it. And no, I know,
• 30:52
  I recognize that it's totally a stupid argument, but I think it's I
• 30:56
  think I'm gonna stick to it. I'm a I'm the winner of one hundred
• 31:00
  and fourteen Kevin Awards, and so I think based on those credentials alone,
• 31:07
  I think I know what I'm talking about here. I mean Mason. As
• 31:11
  far as arguments against this, it fits into pop more than anything else,
• 31:15
  right, unless it's wild card Mason. Those are his his solo career wins
• 31:22
  only. Really, so he's technically been a part of the most number of
• 31:26
  wins. If you probably yeah, in that case, Wold, that's incredible,
• 31:30
  unbelievable. I would have never guessed. Well, I still stick by
• 31:33
  DC Talk, unbelievable band. And if you were a kid in the nineties,
• 31:37
  even if you were in a Christian you still probably knew who DC Talk
• 31:41
  was. That's true. And if you want to see him now, all
• 31:42
  you have to do is buy a thousand dollar ticket and hop on the Queen
• 31:47
  Mary once every three years to watch them stumble around the stage, try to
• 31:52
  remember how their songs go. All right, Well, those are the arguments.
• 31:57
  Let's go to round two. Now we are getting into the hip hop
• 32:05
  and I would say maybe like slash gospel category hip hop slash gospel, so
• 32:09
  you can kind of I know those aren't exactly the same category, but a
• 32:13
  lot of times there's a lot of crossovers. So I think I'm number one,
• 32:16
  right, So I'm going right again. Yeah, right, all right,
• 32:22
  because it's gonna be like hip hop slash gospel. And even if you're
• 32:24
  gonna be like, wait, this isn't hip hop, I've got a great
• 32:28
  argument for you. But I feel like if Amy Grant was the queen of
• 32:32
  Christian pop, then Kirk Franklin is the king of Christian hip hop slash gospel.
• 32:40
  I'm Sarah. You were talking about Tiny Desk concert. I was just
• 32:45
  gonna say, that's one of my favorite tiny desk concert a couple of years
• 32:47
  ago. Unbelievable. Tiny Desk concert by Kurt Franklin. Unbelievable. If you're
• 32:53
  gonna make the argument that he's not hip hop, you can even go on
• 32:55
  his Wikipedia page and the first thing intern of genres that it says is Christian
• 33:01
  hip hop. So I'm gonna trust Wikipedia on that fact, and uh,
• 33:06
  go with the go with the fact. That even if you don't want to
• 33:08
  make the argument that he's Christian hip hop, I think he is so anyway,
• 33:14
  Kirk Franklin, you can't beat him. He's unbelievable. He was also
• 33:16
  so Quirk Franklin, however you want to classify the genre, was also an
• 33:22
  artist that he well all beyond CCM. And I mean I remember being shocked,
• 33:29
  like the one I was not like youth group or or Christian school or
• 33:34
  whatever, was um bull like journalism club that the Kancity Starr had for And
• 33:43
  I remember it's there talking about Kirk Franklin and being like, oh, I
• 33:47
  didn't know that people who knew who he was and so he was. Yeah,
• 33:53
  I mean he was hugely influential, really widespread popularity. So yeah,
• 34:00
  no doubt, I don't, I don't. I don't think anyone could say
• 34:02
  a bad thing about him. I mean he's just he's a good dude and
• 34:06
  he makes fun, energetic Christian music. We had him, we had him
• 34:10
  on the podcast a few years ago and there was a moment I always remember
• 34:15
  where it just went way better than either of us anticipated. And he filmed
• 34:20
  it the same day as his Tiny Desk concert, so he did tiny desk,
• 34:22
  and then he just lopped on the Yeah, he just hopped on zoom
• 34:25
  with us, and it was just an unbelievably I don't even remember what we
• 34:30
  talked about, but he just at one point was enjoying himself so much.
• 34:32
  He was just like, Oh, I love you both. I love you
• 34:36
  so much. Can I be your friend? Can I hang out with you
• 34:39
  all the time? And I said, I love you too, Kirk Franklin.
• 34:44
  And I think that's my favorite moment I've had in podcasting or in one
• 34:47
  of the top ten unbelievably good interview. I mean, life is only going
• 34:52
  downhill from there once Kirk Franklin says that he loves you. I agree.
• 34:59
  That's amaz all right, sounds like there's not really any good argument. So
• 35:02
  let's see what the second best pick in this, uh this round is going
• 35:06
  to be. So Mason, you you you lined up the biggest softball for
• 35:10
  me to knock out of the park here what lacrex, I mean you talk
• 35:15
  about a hip hop artist that has not sorry, that that is that has
• 35:20
  created like the most amount of of a buzz and stir in not just the
• 35:25
  Christian world but also in the secular world. I mean lacre Is is pretty
• 35:30
  much God's here in that regard. I mean, he literally produces for for
• 35:35
  everyone. He makes great hooks, writes great hip hop music, and is
• 35:42
  a very kind of generous person. From from what I hear so well,
• 35:45
  there wouldn't be no Lacrex without Kirk Franklin. So I don't disagree with you
• 35:52
  fully, and Kevin's got a great argument right behind him. The only thing,
• 35:58
  the only thing we did need doing arrogate a little bit is his sort
• 36:02
  of toward you know, in a theological sense, not a romantic sense,
• 36:07
  but his toward love affair with John the Diaper Piper himself and all his theology.
• 36:12
  I believe John Piper did feature on one of his early singles, like
• 36:17
  it was one of those where it's like drops in a certain cliff of like
• 36:21
  oh the Glory of God and before us. And I believe he has a
• 36:25
  song called Don't Waste Your Life, named after the book of the same name.
• 36:31
  And I don't know if they're like still active in the group chat anymore
• 36:37
  or if they've got one, but but that's, you know, it's something
• 36:40
  worth the expressing. I feel really bad for Lacrex in so many ways.
• 36:46
  Because I do believe he's a genuine artist. I believe he has genuine sincerity
• 36:51
  and the things that he's trying to do, And I think he's trying to
• 36:53
  work within, honestly, like white supremacists infrastructures, like not only music,
• 37:00
  but just Christian music in particular, and it feels like he is for no
• 37:06
  one oftentimes, and he finds himself in very uncomfortable positions. I just kind
• 37:12
  of don't en his life and the conviction of what he does. So I
• 37:15
  have no argument against lacre I'm trying to cancel him, but honestly, I
• 37:19
  think you cut ties with the diaper a long time ago. So yeah,
• 37:22
  yeah, I think everyone grows in their faith and in their life, right,
• 37:27
  So yeah, yeah, Hey, listen, we all got a few
• 37:30
  pictures with people that we wouldn't stand by anymore. We all got a few
• 37:35
  of those. I've got a couple with Mason I wish I could get rid
• 37:37
  of. That's true, That's true. All right, Sarah, You got
• 37:40
  any arguments against LACREX are like you were sort of not probably listening to a
• 37:45
  lot of that music by that point in your life, but I'm sure you
• 37:50
  may have heard of him and no of him, and I don't feel like
• 37:53
  I have any anything good or bad. So sorry, Colin, you you
• 38:00
  totally missed the best argument I think for Lacree. You didn't even mention it.
• 38:05
  And I don't want to give you good, good arguments for Lacre because
• 38:07
  I think I have the best pick in this round. But still you missed
• 38:10
  out on the best argument for Lacre, and that is he was the first
• 38:14
  Christian artist to have an album go number one on the Billboard two hundred is
• 38:19
  that true? Twenty fourteen, twenty fourteen. I forget what the album was
• 38:23
  called, but he had an album in twenty and fourteen that went number one
• 38:27
  on the Billboard, which I don't know if you I don't know if Sarah
• 38:30
  and Kevin, if you guys know this, But prior to that, the
• 38:34
  highest charting Christian album to that before Lacree went number one and two. By
• 38:38
  the way, Mason has said this stat five thousand times on this podcast.
• 38:43
  But but Kevin and Sarah need to know this. Under Oath went number two
• 38:46
  in two thousand and six, and actually at that point, at that point
• 38:51
  was the highest charting Christian album of all time. A band that screams was
• 38:55
  the number number or the highest charting Christian album of all time. That's unbelievable
• 39:00
  to me. They don't Yeah, those scream of kids, they don't care.
• 39:04
  Man, the hardcore kids will will lap it up. Mason and I
• 39:07
  live for what we do. Hears older than So that makes me, you
• 39:13
  feel better, but it's true, that's true. All right? Uh Colin,
• 39:19
  you went number two back to Sarah who is going to be your hip
• 39:22
  hop slash gospel artist. Can we include trap on this genre too? Of
• 39:30
  course? Yeah for sure, Yeah, yeah, okay to Carmen because and
• 39:35
  I, I don't know, feeling so damn wow ah. But that was
• 39:47
  my first first concert. You know. So when he was I don't know
• 39:52
  if in concerts where he would fill stadiums full of teenageers, but I was
• 39:58
  like the Peo com and do these free concerts just about every year. And
• 40:05
  it was it was like, you know, so growing up you always hear
• 40:08
  about teenagers going to get concerts and it's like a rite of passage. And
• 40:14
  this was, as a super soul Christian kid, my chance to do it.
• 40:17
  And he went, I mean he went all out. There was like
• 40:21
  the smoke machines and the lights Sam the coum. You know, I feel
• 40:30
  a little bit embarrassed, like pick a white guy guy for this category,
• 40:35
  but that was the world I was in back in the day. Um,
• 40:39
  and you absolutely just destroyed Kevin's draft. I mean that that is a draft
• 40:45
  buster if there ever was one. He's done. I'm genuinely upset, Kevin.
• 40:51
  Have you ever stood in a Carmen concert srounded by a bunch of hormonal
• 40:55
  teenagers? No, but I have the time to him on a Wuiji board
• 41:00
  in the last few years. Different experience, though, to be sure,
• 41:10
  what did he What did he tell you? Uh? He said everything's good
• 41:15
  down here, I mean up here because it took forever because he was like
• 41:21
  down here, I mean it took forever to spell out. Unfortunately, I
• 41:27
  think he's reunited with his number one boy, Satan h finally in eternity,
• 41:34
  because he loves Satan. That's something we all know, right, Like the
• 41:37
  main character and so many of his songs is Satan. Like I was gonna
• 41:42
  say, like the whole Sam Smith thing never made sense to me because it
• 41:45
  was like, have you ever seen a Carmen music video? Yeah, Like
• 41:50
  it's like Satan is like that's the whole thing. I couldn't believe it.
• 41:54
  Yeah, I mean, I can't mention some of his music in retrospect was
• 42:04
  very nationalist. Okay it was. I don't know that. How would he
• 42:09
  intenstended, but it certainly comes up off that way for the christ hip hop
• 42:15
  genre. He was likenic. He really was. I think he was probably
• 42:21
  sad the way that people read white nationalist themes into his song President Trump Blues.
• 42:27
  That probably bumped him out a lot. I'm sure it would have.
• 42:31
  Or I think he has a song on Spotify just called the Flag. There's
• 42:37
  the Flag, There's President Trump Blues, There's America Again, which is like
• 42:40
  kind of a great maga anthem. If I'm honest to god, I didn't
• 42:45
  Donald Trump. I think that's not a joke. He has a single called
• 42:50
  the President Trump Blues about how it's a song about how cool President Trump is.
• 42:54
  He put on in twenty sixteen. That was totally after my I'm not
• 42:59
  aware of that, but but what I was thinking of is that, you
• 43:01
  know, um, America Again. So I'm I'm not endorsing any of his
• 43:08
  political content. I want to be really clear about that, but quite enough.
• 43:13
  At the top, memorable experience. It is for me as like a
• 43:15
  thirty fourteen year old. Yeah, I I could see it. Carmen unbelievable
• 43:22
  pick all right, Kevin Well, last pick of hip hop slash gospel,
• 43:27
  let's hear it. I'm just said, I'm at a total loss here.
• 43:30
  I think we need I need. I think we need to have one caveat
• 43:32
  here? What's that? Kanye West is on the board. I know,
• 43:37
  but I remember one album last year and it was even though literally I think
• 43:44
  all but maybe two of the people we're gonna draft today voted for the former
• 43:49
  president. I can't go as far as the most famous anti Simi'd alive right
• 43:54
  now, draft, I can't do it. I think he's the most famous
• 43:59
  anti semi alive and I've alive. Yeah, yeah, definitely, who's more
• 44:07
  famous? Who's anti Semitic? I think I think you're probably right. I
• 44:10
  mean I don't. I don't want you to be right, but I think
• 44:13
  you might be so in lieu of that, and obviously, you know,
• 44:17
  like Jesus is King is fine, whatever, But in lieu of that,
• 44:21
  I'm gonna name literally the only other Christian hip hop artist I've ever listened to,
• 44:29
  which is John Rubin will wait, hold up, this is my favorite
• 44:45
  part. John Ruben a man who you know has continued to just churn out
• 44:51
  banger after banger. He continues to sell out stadium size shows. His last
• 44:55
  album in twenty twenty was called the greatest Christian rapper ever, and I definitely
• 45:01
  sincerely love him. He's definitely not the bottom of the barrel pig for me,
• 45:05
  when literally everyone else had on my list was already picked by the other
• 45:07
  three participants in this draft. And uh, I adore him and I stand
• 45:13
  by my man John Ruben, so Amy grant John Ruben similar to her for
• 45:16
  me. I guess wow, that is that is high praise for John Rubin,
• 45:22
  somebody who's like only slightly better than kJ five two. Oh yeah,
• 45:28
  dear slim La La, did you did you think about NF at all?
• 45:34
  I did not think about NF now. I mean, he's like selling like
• 45:37
  crazy right now and everywhere. Tadashi Tadashi was like on the ESPN commercial recently
• 45:44
  or some sort of like Nike commercial. Gentlemen, there's better artists I could
• 45:47
  have picked. I'm just saying I haven't listened to any of them, and
• 45:51
  I have to have integrity in this draft only draft. People like I can't
• 45:55
  just be like who's famous Tadashi, Andy Miniel blah. But like, you
• 45:59
  know, if I don't have an actual emotional connection to the music, I
• 46:04
  can't sure, I can't bring I don't. I don't blame you, I
• 46:07
  will say. You know what's funny, My favorite John Rubin's song isn't even
• 46:10
  like very much of a hip hop song, but it's the one that he
• 46:13
  did with Matt Teeson from Reliant Ka. It's like the Nuisance song that is
• 46:17
  an incredible song, even though there's it's not like very hip hoppy. It's
• 46:22
  kind of more of like a I don't know, indie alternative kind of song.
• 46:25
  But anyway, hell yeah, so good. And we're sneaking around,
• 46:31
  right, we're sneaking background. So you are number one for the worship category.
• 46:37
  So the songs that you would have sang at church on a Sunday morning,
• 46:42
  these are the artists what we're picking from. So h let's hear it.
• 46:45
  Who's you're gonna be your number one pick? Kevin? Oh damn?
• 46:49
  Worship? You know you's got to be like the most contentious category for sure,
• 46:52
  right, No, you know what, I feel pretty good with mine,
• 46:55
  even though I'm sure we could do the like Michael W. Smith debate
• 46:58
  again, I'm picking six lovable lads from Liverpool, Baby, Delirious or Deliri
• 47:06
  five question Mark. You are really playing into your UK audience right now.
• 47:12
  They're gonna love you right now. Delirious fronted by Martin Smith, who spent
• 47:19
  most of his career doing a Bano impression to varying degrees of success. You
• 47:23
  may know some of their songs, like, oh gosh, what are some
• 47:29
  of their songs? Freaking I could sing of your love Forever? Did you
• 47:34
  feel the mountains tremble? Cutting Edge? This one, two three and four?
• 47:37
  That was a moment for a lot of us. King of Fools glow.
• 47:42
  They have since retired, but you know they represented a very specific time.
• 47:49
  That was the praise and worship version of the British invasion happening all over
• 47:54
  it, which you know is also the Australian invasion as well. Just because
• 47:59
  it's so little, son Core, what's happened in the last twenty years?
• 48:02
  But I saw I saw a Deliarry five question Mark live back in the year
• 48:07
  two thousand or the year two thousand and one. Christian Yeah, uh and
• 48:13
  man, I you know, you know the reason I'm saying it that way
• 48:15
  is because a friend of mine who was ended up being an on air DJ
• 48:22
  at a Christian radio station Houston eighty nine point three f m KSPJ. He
• 48:27
  would on aol A I M instant messenger right all his ss as fives because
• 48:34
  of the band, because he loved guy so much. And when when I
• 48:37
  would spell my name on papers, or like when I would, uh like
• 48:40
  do an assignment in fourth grade, I would I would put the little cross
• 48:45
  through the O because of under oath. Oh my gosh, that's awesome.
• 48:50
  So you know what I feel solid whoever that person is Solidarity teachers just thought
• 48:55
  it was because of the nineteen eighties calculators. Little did they know it was
• 49:00
  because of two thousands metal Christian metal coore. And I want to be clear,
• 49:05
  my my pick is not prolific, nous. I'm sure everyone here is
• 49:09
  gonna have an artist where it's like, you know what, they have way
• 49:13
  more standards at their disposal. They have words, right, more devil yeah
• 49:19
  gosh, oh my gosh, John Nash over here with the stats, but
• 49:23
  that they have more hits, they have more songs that maybe people still sing
• 49:28
  in churches and hill and delirious has you know I could see your love forever
• 49:35
  my soul sings. Yeah. Your argument so good because when you think of
• 49:44
  two thousands worship music, you think of like, oh wait, that just
• 49:46
  sounds like You two or cold Play. But the reason why it sounds like
• 49:50
  You two or cold Play, that's never made that connection until it's because of
• 49:58
  them exclusively. Oh yeah, And I'm wondering, I wonder how honestly they
• 50:04
  came to it as an aesthetic for the band, because certainly, like a
• 50:07
  lot of their stuff is just poppy. But you know, they were kind
• 50:12
  of crusting on that way. That was really the turn of the century where
• 50:15
  it's like the predominant commercial genre of contemporary Christian music is no longer pop,
• 50:20
  it's no longer rocket is worship. And they crusted enough and then they kind
• 50:23
  of pieced out, like they got in and they got out and they did
• 50:27
  their thing. But I remember the happy song and I and I could sing
• 50:31
  of my love for Delirious forever, but I won't. That's my pig,
• 50:34
  delirious love it. Any arguments against Sarah, any arguments against the lrius struggling
• 50:40
  with just like the line between what is just a Christian rock band and you
• 50:46
  know, like I'm still thinking about that. I don't really have any arguments
• 50:51
  against Deliririus, but like when I first heard of them, people thought they
• 50:57
  were cool, were like listening to them like in the firm, like more
• 51:00
  of just like you know, they weren't, but I keep songs, didn't
• 51:07
  they? So yeah, yeah, I'm not sure from super health um,
• 51:14
  because when I think of worships, I think like Hillsong or something, you
• 51:17
  know what I mean. Yeah, but whole song wouldn't have existed had Delirious
• 51:23
  not existed. Who had to walk so Hillsong could run? That's my question?
• 51:29
  Who did it? I did it for them. Hopefully Delirious isn't predicated
• 51:34
  on a foundation of you know, pedophilia and covered up scandals in the way
• 51:39
  Hillsong is. I hope that's not the case, is what I'm saying.
• 51:43
  But you know they were you know, oh okay, Cutting Edge and the
• 51:46
  band's hometown of Little Hampton. They were writing songs, original songs for youth
• 51:52
  group events and like so Cutting Edge is songs that were literally functioning for what
• 51:57
  were we going to sing at our gatherings. That's what it was for,
• 52:00
  So I think it was predicated on that. And then they did like dance
• 52:04
  around with the poppet work in rock genres, and then they went out with
• 52:07
  those live albums that you know what it's like going to church when you listen
• 52:10
  to them, It's like having worshiped time when you listen to Delirious Rip to
• 52:19
  the band, I think all the gentlemen are so lofty, all right,
• 52:23
  Sarah number two pick of the worship category. Who are you praising out too?
• 52:29
  Right now? I mean, I'm just gonna go way way back,
• 52:35
  like literally before my time time. Oh no, if you take mine,
• 52:39
  I'm gonna be so mad. Take it. Take it, please take it.
• 52:45
  The first name thinking of I think influenced a lot of people people later
• 52:50
  and set the tone. And a very skillful musician, Keith Agree he died
• 52:55
  when I was backing way before, way way back. But gosh, you
• 53:04
  know, and and it's you know, it's um church. Oh lord,
• 53:10
  you're beautiful. Um. There is a redeem mur right, uh gading me
• 53:15
  a clean heart. And you know, I still when I hear those songs,
• 53:20
  I'm still moved by a lot of them. And I think it was
• 53:23
  just but but it's funny. I was listening back to some of his stuff
• 53:27
  recently and I realized it was so embedded in the seventies, the seventies of
• 53:34
  the seventies, you know, such a tragedic death at a young age age
• 53:38
  that I think that's adds to that. I mean, actually it seems like
• 53:44
  a um a lot of legendary musicians that yeah, that happens. But you
• 53:51
  get in a plane crowds, right, yeah, him and his wife and
• 53:54
  I yeah, yeah, yeah, teas. I just I think he was
• 54:00
  so sort of soulful and heartfelt in his music, and I don't know much
• 54:04
  about him as a human being. As a person, I can't his character
• 54:07
  for you know, neither here nor they're there. But I just remember me,
• 54:14
  let me tell you about Keith Green's character. This guy is, in
• 54:17
  my opinion, like what every person on earth should be. Like. He
• 54:22
  owned a house in Beverly Hills that he didn't live in. He just let
• 54:30
  whoever wanted to live there live there. And so at times there was like
• 54:35
  twenty thirty people, oftentimes homeless, and he would just play concerts for them
• 54:40
  in his home and feed them, give them a place to stay and and
• 54:45
  then just just go do his own thing. Like he was a kind general,
• 54:52
  wonderful soul. He's like one of my my musical heroes. And I
• 54:55
  don't mean that like in any like like cheeky sense, like I actually mean
• 55:00
  that the guy's incredible, really um a great artist and a really awesome person.
• 55:07
  I have zero arguments he was going to be my pig so so and
• 55:13
  I hate to be I hate to be this guy. I just looked it
• 55:16
  up and he does have a song called President Trump Blues as well, and
• 55:22
  it's really sad. It's actually the last song he ever recorded, and there's
• 55:25
  like President why He's like, you'll find out one day. Actually, what
• 55:30
  is funny is he also has a song about him as as the Devil,
• 55:35
  Like so he's singing as the Devil. So there's there's a little bit of
• 55:37
  a through, like yeah, there's a little Carmen thread in there. But
• 55:40
  no, I I agree. I agree with everything that everyone's ever said on
• 55:46
  this podcast. I agree with that he is a very genuinely emotional singer.
• 55:51
  Some of his songs sound like he's crying. They are so from the heart
• 55:55
  and emotional. He seemed like a very sensitive man best. Uh, you
• 56:00
  know, possible version of the word. And look at that little lamb on
• 56:05
  him. Isn't that sweet? It's so sweet. The best argument I think
• 56:07
  you have, Sarah is the fact that you didn't let Cullen pick Keith Green.
• 56:13
  And for I will love you forever just for that reason alone. Yeah,
• 56:17
  because I knew how badly Culin would want to pick Keith Green. And
• 56:22
  the fact that you picked him before him. Oh, I just love that
• 56:25
  so much. It's gonna be like the crowning achievement of your career. Yeah,
• 56:35
  all right. Uh, speaking of which, Colin, let's hear it.
• 56:38
  Worship category, who are you gonna pick? Um? So this category,
• 56:43
  I have like zero attachment to other than Keith Green. So I'm just
• 56:47
  gonna say, Chris Tomlin twenty one Dove Awards, the Amazon dot Com of
• 56:52
  worship Leaders, Jesus nice for you. I mean, I mean, certainly
• 56:58
  like at Urcher growing up that Mason and I went to, it was it
• 57:02
  was pretty much exclusively a Chris Tomlin ad Matt Redman show. I mean that
• 57:07
  that's all that that was ever played, um every once in a while throwing
• 57:10
  a Hillsong song. But I mean, for the most part, it was
• 57:13
  Chris Tomlin. And and we're just saying the same songs every single week.
• 57:16
  So I'm sure, I'm sure. I actually probably no heart or by heart
• 57:21
  more Chris Tomlin songs than probably any other artists on this entire draft. But
• 57:27
  um yeah, I just I don't really have like a deep, deep feeling
• 57:30
  in this category, but there it is. But that might be your best
• 57:32
  argument because I still remember when we were watching Jesus Music Kevin, one of
• 57:37
  the things that was said, and I felt like it needed more time to
• 57:42
  like flesh out a little bit more. But there was like this offhanded comment
• 57:44
  about the fact that at one point in time Chris Tomlin might have been the
• 57:49
  most listened to musician in the world. Yeah, I can see that,
• 57:53
  and I never thought about it that way, but I'm like, that absolutely
• 57:58
  is true, Like more people were listening to tip to Chris Tomlin music at
• 58:01
  one point in time than any other artist in the world, and that's hard
• 58:06
  to believe. And uh, and even if Cullen knew who Chris Tomlin was,
• 58:09
  then Chris Tomlin clearly is somebody that's worth picking. Then in the worship
• 58:14
  category, what was that story from Mason. Who was it that the elevator
• 58:22
  billboard? Oh that was Hawk Nelson. Yeah, you story, because oh
• 58:27
  this is great. This is a great story for listeners. Who are you?
• 58:30
  You can listen back to our Hawk Nelson episode with John Steingard, but
• 58:34
  he was telling us this story where they were at a Dove Awards uh thing
• 58:37
  and they were playing the most important awards music. Oh. They so Hawk
• 58:45
  Nelson as a band get into the elevator and they just like gotten done,
• 58:51
  you know, got done doing a bunch of interviews and stuff. This guy
• 58:52
  walks in to the elevator next like floor up and they're still all going up
• 58:57
  and uh, it's a long elevator ride. And at one point they like
• 59:02
  all three of the guys in the band were like oh, like hey,
• 59:06
  you know, like they kind of knew who it was. But the lead
• 59:09
  singer of Hawk Nelson was getting annoyed that like he didn't really understand who this
• 59:14
  guy was, even though he felt like he should know him. And eventually,
• 59:17
  after like the other three guys in the from Hawk Nelson were talking to
• 59:21
  this guy, they were like the lead singer was like, all right,
• 59:24
  can I just like pause for a second. Who are you, and this
• 59:29
  guy reaches out his hand and he's like, hey, I'm Chris Tomlin.
• 59:31
  And as soon as he said that, the elevator went by this window that
• 59:36
  looked outside and there was a big billboard sign that had his like his face
• 59:40
  on it, literally right in that moment. So unbelievable story. You can
• 59:46
  listen to the full story on the Hawk Nelson episode with John Steiger Unbelievable Episodes,
• 59:52
  Super fun. But anyway, that's a great Chris Tomlin story. That's
• 59:55
  like the way you told him. I'm imagining the great Gatsby gift of Leonardo
• 1:00:00
  turning around to toast you. But it's but it's him saying I'm Chris Tomlin.
• 1:00:06
  That's amazing. So I'm gonna argue this is a bad pick because Chris
• 1:00:09
  Tomlin is a net negative evil in the world of worship. I think he
• 1:00:16
  is. I think he is contributed to the demification of mainstream worship culture.
• 1:00:23
  Hey, look no further than genius lyric writing like the courses to his songs.
• 1:00:30
  How great is our God? Seeing with me, how great is our
• 1:00:34
  God? And all will seeing how great is our God? There's power?
• 1:00:38
  And have you not understood this store it's the people's medium. You're a good
• 1:00:45
  good father. It's who you are, it's who you are, it's who
• 1:00:49
  you know. I don't even think he wrote that, but he made it
• 1:00:51
  popular. Um. But yeah, I see him as sort of like he
• 1:00:55
  is to worship music with Ryan Reynolds is to cinema. And maybe I'll just
• 1:01:00
  even at that. I think around that. So, I went to college
• 1:01:06
  from ninety nine to two thousand and three. Local College said, but by
• 1:01:10
  the way, just announced it's basically closing. Nonetheless, I just remember,
• 1:01:15
  like sometime I need to look up your Wikipedia page to see where you went
• 1:01:19
  to college. Yeah. I just actually really great professors, and I have
• 1:01:27
  them pretty openly expressing disgusted the way that the chapel services were were going.
• 1:01:34
  She would joke about, and the fact that they weren't like they didn't go
• 1:01:37
  for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours. That is
• 1:01:40
  that what your disgust was making a joke one time in class about how it's
• 1:01:46
  so certain people seem like you walk into the chapels services, you couldn't tell
• 1:01:52
  in the midst of sexual ecstasy, um, and some of the lyrics.
• 1:01:59
  So did I mean thinking thinking that that was bulled for a Christian college professory.
• 1:02:07
  True, it's also very very true. Wow wow, that is something
• 1:02:12
  else. Also. Can I just say about the Asbury Revival thing, if
• 1:02:15
  you were a student who was at every single hour of that revival, you
• 1:02:20
  should get enough chapel credits where you never have to go to chapel again for
• 1:02:23
  the rest of your time at that college. No, p that'd be such
• 1:02:28
  an effective way to do it. That's the way to do it. I
• 1:02:30
  wish there was a revival at my little Calvinist college, but clearly the Calvinists
• 1:02:35
  will never ever revival I wasn't meant to be. As they would say,
• 1:02:40
  did you have manage tory chapel? I did. We had to go to
• 1:02:45
  like two or three a week. Yeah. So. And the guy in
• 1:02:52
  my um Collport who like miss I mean, you'd have to fact check me
• 1:02:59
  on this, but from what I recall, he missed just a couple of
• 1:03:02
  chapels and there was this like whole disciplinary thing, and the reason he missed
• 1:03:07
  them because he was like word Romanian and youth group or something thing and like
• 1:03:13
  was super busy with that and didn't make it to chapel people enough times.
• 1:03:16
  Didn't graduate or it was ridiculous, like they were so strict about this child
• 1:03:23
  the president's life staff, like policing, make sure that there's a whole thing.
• 1:03:31
  But that's another podcast. That is certainly another podcast. All right,
• 1:03:39
  we are, are we ready for my number one pick? Because honestly,
• 1:03:44
  I felt like it was just handed to me for this round, even though
• 1:03:47
  I'm the last in this round, it just has been gifted to me.
• 1:03:52
  But my pick for worship is none other than Rich Mullins himself. Oh man,
• 1:04:02
  I know. I mean, I don't know how you can ever pick
• 1:04:05
  against Rich Mullins. I mean, he is just legendary in this world of
• 1:04:12
  worship music. I remember singing Awesome God all the time in church and h
• 1:04:17
  and to this day, I'm sure they still sing Awesome God. I haven't
• 1:04:20
  been doing evangelical church in a long time, but I would imagine they still
• 1:04:24
  sing his stuff. I mean, he is such a legend. And here's
• 1:04:27
  the thing that's really cool about Rich Mullins is I think even regardless of where
• 1:04:31
  you land politically these days, as an evangelical, you probably really like Rich
• 1:04:35
  Mullins. Like he didn't have this like like the whole Carmen Factor where he
• 1:04:42
  was writing songs about Trump, Like I don't think he really had that vibe
• 1:04:45
  going on even in his day. Uh and uh yeah, I mean the
• 1:04:48
  whole Ragmuffin band and everything. He's awesome. So I'm picking rich Mullins,
• 1:04:54
  and I'm staying firm in my pick with rich Mullins, and I cannot believe
• 1:04:57
  I got him at that pick. A truly great artist, someone who operated
• 1:05:02
  with such conviction and was a weirdough because of it. He was very off
• 1:05:06
  putting to a lot of people, and he seems very intense become in the
• 1:05:11
  good way. When you read stories about Fred Rogers of like, oh you're
• 1:05:14
  for real, so you're kind of weird to people, but you know,
• 1:05:16
  not in a way that's pejorative, but another one, you know, the
• 1:05:19
  second choice in this particular category of a gentleman who's taken too soon from us.
• 1:05:27
  He also died in a vehicular accident at a kind of young age.
• 1:05:31
  Yeah, couldn't couldn't agree more co signed to everything you say, Mason,
• 1:05:36
  I got no argument against it, any arguments against Rich Mullins. I don't
• 1:05:43
  know if I know anything about him, so I have no arguments that.
• 1:05:45
  That's my argument. My argument is I don't know anything about him. What
• 1:05:50
  a great argument. Thanks coming, You're You're welcome. That's what I'm here
• 1:05:54
  for. Was like it was, It was like you Nuche or Christian School
• 1:06:02
  or anything in my I was like it truly was. It was. It
• 1:06:11
  was wherever you went, it really was. All right, Let's move on
• 1:06:15
  to our wild card category, which is you can pick any CCM artists that
• 1:06:20
  you want. Uh, So, it doesn't matter if they're pop, doesn't
• 1:06:25
  matter, if they're hip hop, doesn't even matter if they're worship music.
• 1:06:28
  Any CCM artists you want. That's this category. And is it back to
• 1:06:31
  me? Right, it's back to you? Yeah, all right, Well,
• 1:06:34
  um man, there's so many options with this. You know what,
• 1:06:40
  I'm gonna go with an artist that I think did a lot of these genres
• 1:06:45
  and did them really really well for quite some time and they're still going.
• 1:06:48
  Uh and clearly previous picks does not disqualify uh this artist. So I'm just
• 1:06:56
  gonna say Newsboys, Boys Boys. My first My first argument for Newsboys is
• 1:07:05
  going to be the fact that my parents' first date was a Newsboys concert,
• 1:07:12
  So I would not exist if it weren't for the Newsboys, and uh,
• 1:07:15
  I feel like that's an argument enough for me to make for why I would
• 1:07:19
  pick the Newsboys. Oh my god, So without your mom and dad getting
• 1:07:26
  a little horned up when they shouldn't be doing I'm not ashamed Surf in nineteen
• 1:07:30
  ninety two or whatever it was, we wouldn't be doing this podcast right now.
• 1:07:35
  I've described Newsboys who's they've gone through a little personnel change that used to
• 1:07:40
  be fronted by Baldy and the Surfer and now it's more of a Michael Tate
• 1:07:45
  money laundering scheme and God's not dead spawn con But they're sort of the adult
• 1:07:51
  Wiggles of CCM right where it's like, yeah, we're doing this now.
• 1:07:57
  I think if you watch their concert film from two thousand, from the Step
• 1:08:02
  Up to the Microphone Tour, Peter Furler, the former front man, is
• 1:08:06
  definitely lip syncing to a lot of the tracks that said. I can't deny
• 1:08:13
  the Bangers, I can't deny Entertaining Angels or Shine or even take me to
• 1:08:20
  your leader of Reality in Breakfast and you can. You can't deny the fact
• 1:08:25
  that Peter Furler is cousins with Sia that's the weirdest fact in the world,
• 1:08:30
  Isn't that so funny? Sia? It was the musical guest when who hosted
• 1:08:36
  SNL Donald Joseph Trump, and it all comes back to him. So I
• 1:08:40
  think Michael Tait is very publicly pro Like I said, it clearly has not
• 1:08:45
  disqualified other people from picking those types of artists. So I'm gonna go with
• 1:08:50
  it. And the fact that Newsboys has made some pretty big worship bangers like
• 1:08:56
  he Reigns, and also had the really great pop stuff, alternative stuff back
• 1:09:00
  in the nineties and occasionally you get a little bit of a little hip hop
• 1:09:05
  part every now and then, very occasionally, but every now and then.
• 1:09:09
  I feel like you Newsboys are just kind of a standout through basically three or
• 1:09:13
  four generations of CCM music. I mean, like think there are very few
• 1:09:18
  worship bands that have spanned the length of time of relevance that they've had.
• 1:09:23
  I think that's worth something, That is worth something. No, Okay,
• 1:09:27
  you're right, Larious was a flash in the pan by comparison to the Newsboys.
• 1:09:30
  And I will say this, may we all have like stories of oh,
• 1:09:33
  when I was a kid, I saw this band, or I remember
• 1:09:36
  going to them, seeing them at a theme park or at this Christian music
• 1:09:40
  festival. I saw Newsboys in the year twenty eighteen, in the Year of
• 1:09:44
  Our Lord in Los Angeles, first time no I'd seen them before. They're
• 1:09:49
  playing at the Wheel Turn here in LA and boy, was that the weirdest
• 1:09:54
  crowd I've ever seen. It was aggressively polite people up. They sat down
• 1:10:00
  and that was it, you know, and they kind of and there was
• 1:10:04
  like a you know, hockeying of the missionary fun fucking whatever in the middle
• 1:10:09
  of it. But um had a very weird fun time there, and that
• 1:10:13
  was you News Boys. I believe it was called Newsboys United. It was
• 1:10:16
  the mega group where Tait and Furler Angel We're all back in the all back
• 1:10:20
  in the mix. And they did do the drum thing, they did the
• 1:10:24
  grace hit of the platform, spinning and rotating and doing all that. It
• 1:10:28
  was fun. Love it, Love it any other arguments against, no arguments,
• 1:10:33
  Love it all? Right, Uh back to you, Collen. So
• 1:10:38
  I'm kind of waffling a bit here on what I want to pick, mainly
• 1:10:41
  because oh, did we lose Mason. I wonder if this means it's being
• 1:10:45
  recorded or not I need to pee. Oh okay, sounds good. I
• 1:10:48
  didn't even know you were still there. I thought you were protesting Colin's next
• 1:10:53
  pick by turn. He would do that, though he would do that.
• 1:10:56
  UM, I'm waffling a little bit. I don't know what I want to
• 1:10:58
  do here, because tedically CCM can also include like metal artists and things like
• 1:11:03
  that, and that's obviously the area that I'm most akin to. But I
• 1:11:10
  think I'm gonna pick Jars of Clay. I've been a massive Jars of Clay
• 1:11:15
  fan for a long time. They're one of like the only UM, like
• 1:11:18
  like straight up CCM pop bands or pop rock bands out there that I actually
• 1:11:25
  adore. UM. Their album Good Monsters especially, I think is is a
• 1:11:30
  masterpiece. Obviously, there's Flood that everyone knows UM. I mean that was
• 1:11:34
  that was a total crossover hit. UM. And I think that Dan Hazeltine
• 1:11:41
  and his writing style has lent itself very very well as he's progressed with age
• 1:11:46
  and become more more progressive. And UM definitely has you know, differing takes
• 1:11:54
  and thoughts about how, UM, how the music scenes changed, how Christianity
• 1:11:59
  has changed, UM, and and how it probably should continue to change,
• 1:12:03
  so sure, Yeah, so I'm gonna stick with jos A. Clay.
• 1:12:06
  I think it's a I think it's a great thing. I can't argue with
• 1:12:10
  that. I think I think Jars of clay Mate might have the most noble
• 1:12:14
  into a band out of all the bands that we've talked about, which is
• 1:12:18
  for people not familiar. I mean it wasn't completely this, but this was
• 1:12:21
  pretty much the end. Dan Hasseltine gets on a flight and tweets out,
• 1:12:27
  I don't know, maybe gay people should be allowed to be married and Christian
• 1:12:30
  shouldn't care about that, And by the time the flight lands, they are
• 1:12:34
  done. They're done. On contemporary Christian radio played because he said, uh,
• 1:12:42
  perhaps we don't burn crosses on quicker people's lawns, and people were like,
• 1:12:45
  no, you have to. So a very interesting juxtaposition. They all
• 1:12:50
  seem like nice chill, nice chill boys who are doing their own thing now,
• 1:12:56
  So yeah, perhaps to them. I meant him once when I had
• 1:13:01
  drank a large amount of alcohol at a festival, and the funny thing is
• 1:13:06
  he was like playing guitar in a band that he wasn't even leading, Like,
• 1:13:10
  I don't even think he's saying he was just playing background guitar, and
• 1:13:14
  uh, I think I don't know if it was before the show or after
• 1:13:15
  the show, but at some point I just said, Hey, I'm Mason.
• 1:13:19
  It's nice to meet you Dan. Really, you know, really like
• 1:13:21
  what you we're up to in the world. So but that was that was
• 1:13:25
  the extent of it. But I had consumed large amounts of alcohol and I'm
• 1:13:30
  sure he probably doesn't care for that interaction. But but you didn't say You
• 1:13:34
  didn't say anything like I got a flood for you and like take a leak,
• 1:13:40
  because I wouldn't do that. He would have. He certainly would have
• 1:13:44
  remembered me if that was the case, but I don't think I think that's
• 1:13:46
  the case. Now, good good, good good about the num number of
• 1:13:51
  Christian artists that have been in one way exiled or ouster that issue, right,
• 1:13:58
  I mean Rapolts right right came out and he was done as very music
• 1:14:03
  artist. And it's hard to think of somebody who was more since the early
• 1:14:09
  sincerely than you think about the music he wrote. Um, you think of
• 1:14:14
  Jennifer Nap, you know, and once she came out, Um, and
• 1:14:18
  then think about all the people who who even straight people who punished exiled for
• 1:14:26
  divorces um Sandy Patt. Maybe I'd have to check. Obviously I mentioned amy
• 1:14:32
  grants divorce. Um. It's really I mean, it's really hard to come
• 1:14:40
  back from a lot of that, and there's there's there's enough for people for
• 1:14:44
  not I mean, I'm not suggesting you should be forgiven, need to be
• 1:14:47
  forgiven for any of it, but it's very very it's very easy to run
• 1:14:51
  a foul of what community expects. And you know, I would almost argue
• 1:14:58
  that someone should write an article, maybe like a retrospective article about such.
• 1:15:02
  I don't know how funny doing anything like that. Okay, all right,
• 1:15:10
  so back to you, Sarah. You ready for your wild card pick?
• 1:15:15
  Let's hear it. I am. This was so hard because I feel like
• 1:15:19
  there's that meant something to me when I was younger or even now. It's
• 1:15:26
  hard to pick just one. And the person I mean a pick is not
• 1:15:29
  necessarily like Top of the Heat, most well wellknown, but just some um
• 1:15:34
  and that is Nicole ornament I. I oh so authenticity. Her Her album
• 1:15:45
  Wide I came out I think around the time. Listen to it a lot,
• 1:15:47
  but then and I was really wrestling with making sense of my faith and
• 1:15:54
  um, a lot of a lot of that album was about wrestling with faith.
• 1:16:00
  Really, I'm like there was a lot out there at the time,
• 1:16:03
  and maybe there wasn't. I just massed it, but a lot of other
• 1:16:06
  Christian friends were listening to seem like it was worship music. It was very
• 1:16:11
  like yeay Jesus. But also I don't really know about a lot of this
• 1:16:15
  stuff, and she seemed to be early and authentically wrestling with questions of doubt
• 1:16:25
  and faith. I just love her cover of in Your Eyes. If you've
• 1:16:30
  ever ever heard that, it's gorgeous, totally underappreciated. I have to check
• 1:16:36
  that one out. Did you say in your Eyes that's a song that I
• 1:16:41
  really got you? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. I just think it's a
• 1:16:45
  fantastic cover. All right, I'll check it out, well, am I
• 1:16:48
  In Nicold nord of An anecdote is when I was a young boy involved in
• 1:16:53
  a Christian drama troop where we did what's called human videos, which is almost
• 1:16:57
  like a lip sync dance performance where you're not lip syncing to a specific song.
• 1:17:00
  We did do Every Season by Nicole Nordaman, which I think is from
• 1:17:04
  her first or second album and I still remember the choreography. If you guys
• 1:17:10
  want me to do it real quick, I don't know how we are on
• 1:17:13
  time? That and you gotta do it with your Brio magazine? Oh sure,
• 1:17:15
  yeah, I know, I gotta go get that. I guess that
• 1:17:18
  brings it to me? Huh for the Yeah, let's let's hear it.
• 1:17:24
  What's your wild card pick? Any CCM artists you can think of that hasn't
• 1:17:29
  already been picked? Friends, There's there's so many ways I could go with
• 1:17:32
  this. I could go for the prestige pick. Oh, maybe it's this,
• 1:17:35
  Oh King's Kaleidoscope. Actually they're doing some cool stuff in the genre,
• 1:17:40
  or you know, maybe or off the bean path, like, oh,
• 1:17:43
  how about Leslie Phillips She became Sam Phillips and became the composer of Gilmore Girl
• 1:17:47
  something like Yeah, but no, I have to make a completely emotional decision
• 1:17:53
  here and be true to myself. And that's why are you? Are you
• 1:17:57
  going to reveal it as soon as your background changes too? Yeah? Of
• 1:18:00
  course I hope I can't. How could I know it? And of course
• 1:18:03
  my final pick is Larry the Cucumber. That is tittle pick wildcard pick?
• 1:18:10
  Oh, name a better discography, name a better run than the water Buffalo
• 1:18:15
  song, the Hairbrush song, I Love my lips, the Pirates who don't
• 1:18:19
  do anything is cheeseburger. Larry didn't have to go that hard for us.
• 1:18:26
  We were just children. We didn't know what was good or bad. But
• 1:18:29
  because of him, I think that's the reason why, you know, I
• 1:18:32
  speaking for some of us, why we have taste, why we now can
• 1:18:36
  appreciate satire, parody, whimsy, silliness itself, the you know, the
• 1:18:44
  titular silliness of the silly songs. So Larry, My my hat's off to
• 1:18:48
  you. Even Larry Boy, the theme song to Larry Boy with boy Man,
• 1:18:56
  Larry has entered the chat. I practice that twice. I'll tell you
• 1:18:59
  what. So, yeah, I am pissed. I am I am confounded
• 1:19:06
  that you would pick such a great pick and actually upset man, I'm problematic,
• 1:19:15
  King Larry. Larry was very Larry the Cucumber was very uh foundational in
• 1:19:19
  unionizing the vegetables a veggie tales, so he's pro union. He marched with
• 1:19:25
  BLM a couple of summers ago when we all did. And he doesn't have
• 1:19:30
  any blue songs about any presidents because he knows APAP, you know. I
• 1:19:33
  think I think he was just maybe a little too phallic for the Christian conservatives
• 1:19:36
  though, I think so. Yeah, I think there's a lot of Freudian
• 1:19:41
  projection going on. I think that's a salient point. My only argument is
• 1:19:47
  that it was for kids, and this is like, like, I mean,
• 1:19:53
  if we were talking speaking about like we been talking, okay, fine,
• 1:19:57
  but will we be talking about like you know, but it I love
• 1:20:05
  Veggie details and decent human being being anna, you know, it's I can't
• 1:20:14
  really argue with it. Yeah, we should say that Phil Fisher has come
• 1:20:17
  out on Twitter and said, like, you know, you know, tomatoes
• 1:20:21
  and cucumbers are technically frue winky face, So I'm like, is literally canonically
• 1:20:27
  queer? Is that what he just said? I think he has or maybe
• 1:20:31
  he's a bike can't you know, like it could be anything, um,
• 1:20:34
  but but yes, definite, definitely for a specific audience. I would I
• 1:20:38
  would make the counter argument that Newsboys is more for children than Veggie in any
• 1:20:45
  ways. Oh yeah, I think I have to agree. At the big
• 1:20:50
  goals of CCM, we all need to admit it. I believe they don't
• 1:20:57
  say breakfast Dannell. Is that for adult? Is that for a grown man
• 1:21:00
  in their fifties and sixties? It is? It's for Mason Menega. All
• 1:21:08
  right, Look, I feel like every one of us, I think,
• 1:21:12
  probably has a bunch of artists that we want to name. Let's just one
• 1:21:15
  by one go through. One artist that is an honorable mention that should have
• 1:21:19
  been mentioned but didn't get mentioned. But one honorable mention someone that didn't get
• 1:21:26
  mentioned that I think totally should have gotten mentioned, is none other than David
• 1:21:32
  Crowder, the man who changed sloppy wet kiss to unforeseen kiss. The man
• 1:21:41
  himself I think should be named because I put him in like the same category
• 1:21:45
  as like a Chris Tomlin. I wouldn't choose David Crowder over Chris Tomlin,
• 1:21:49
  but David Crowder was like such an influence in that world along with the delirious
• 1:21:56
  I would even say kind of in that same vein such a big deal for
• 1:22:00
  some time. So David Crowder at least deserves an honorable mention. Hell yeah,
• 1:22:04
  the Jack Skellington of CCM, Yeah, I'll say, I'll say Stephen
• 1:22:10
  Curtis Chapman. Oh that's a good one. Yeah, I was. I
• 1:22:14
  was surprised that that wasn't picked by someone. I thought for sure it was.
• 1:22:16
  But yeah, I mean he didn't mean a whole lot to me,
• 1:22:19
  but I'm just surprised he didn't make it on the list. Here. That
• 1:22:24
  is a big that's a big boy to leave out. Yeah all right,
• 1:22:29
  Uh not as big as Larry though. Yeah. No, I mean who
• 1:22:32
  could be who? Yeah, Sarah, who's your honorable mention? Does it
• 1:22:36
  have to be an individual? Cann't be a group? It can be a
• 1:22:41
  total group. Its absolutely can be a group, Um pointed. Grace was
• 1:22:46
  like, oh wow, yeah, it was like, yes, it was.
• 1:22:53
  It's like it was like not so spice girls, you know, but
• 1:22:57
  purity culture. I love them. When I was that, It's like I
• 1:23:00
  loved them. They like part harmony is they had a great Christmas album one
• 1:23:06
  point, and they weren't the Spice Girls. They were the sugar girls,
• 1:23:11
  right, they were the sugar girls. Sweet, the sweet girls. Oh,
• 1:23:15
  bless her heart, she's such a sweet girl. I didn't think then
• 1:23:20
  continue to keep the candle burning to this day, I think, really,
• 1:23:25
  yeah, they're like a country trio. Now they switch genre. Yeah they're
• 1:23:30
  aren't they. I was just googling them. So they're kind of like the
• 1:23:34
  not Dixie Chicks, just the Chicks now. Yes, yeah, it's less
• 1:23:40
  Wilson Phillips like they started in more Hoedown now. So if you want to
• 1:23:47
  square dance to some tog just slaugh on their newst album. All right,
• 1:23:54
  Kevin, your your pick for a honorable mention that should at least be mentioned.
• 1:24:01
  You know, I'll mention just because they were briefly as a time as
• 1:24:05
  a as a little boy grown up in Subrember, texas my number one band.
• 1:24:10
  I'll say five Iron Frenzy five oron Frenzy. Okay, yeah, to
• 1:24:15
  Reese Roper fronting them, they continue to price on people who have like kind
• 1:24:20
  of aged into progressive politics that were always coming here and in some of their
• 1:24:25
  lyrics have aged out of Christianity altogether, and they hang on to them right
• 1:24:30
  in some ways. Yeah yeah yeah, but uh. And someone who when
• 1:24:33
  I erroneously said they voted for Trump, emailed me and said, hey,
• 1:24:39
  I listened to your show. I didn't vote for Trump, and here's why,
• 1:24:42
  and let me on your show. And I say, okay, Reese
• 1:24:44
  Roper, you can do the show. And I saw them in Pomona,
• 1:24:46
  California a few years ago, and they did a kick ass show and they
• 1:24:49
  played all my favorite songs. So I love them and the and the heart
• 1:24:54
  behind their stuff, and I will always have an affectionate place in my heart
• 1:24:58
  for the ska and sort of swing revival of the mid nineties because of them.
• 1:25:02
  Honestly, some of the best ska and swing revival there ever was was
• 1:25:08
  Christian bands. They were so good at it. There were a lot of
• 1:25:11
  really good Christian bands, So that's a great pick, I think, because
• 1:25:16
  it was like, especially swing, it was associated with a more wholesome Europe.
• 1:25:23
  You know. It was like it was like cooler than the square dancing,
• 1:25:27
  but you know, cleaner than granular. That's my theory. Yeah,
• 1:25:32
  I think you're I think you're on the right track. They're one. Geez,
• 1:25:38
  he's back. Oh my goodness. All right, Well, let's let's
• 1:25:43
  finish up this episode. It's already gone way too long, but it's been
• 1:25:45
  It's been really fun. Sarah Kevin, thank you so much for reminiscing about
• 1:25:50
  some of our favorite CCM artists. Hopefully this was really fun for you guys.
• 1:25:56
  Hopefully it was really fun for listeners. But I don't know who's gonna
• 1:26:00
  take the cake for the best team of CCM artists. I don't know if
• 1:26:03
  it's Sarah, I don't know if it's Kevin. I don't know if it's
• 1:26:05
  Culin or myself. But regardless, it's been really fun. So thank you
• 1:26:10
  so much for for hanging out and enjoying some of the funniest and goofiest and
• 1:26:15
  also most formative music of our lives. My pleasure is this being voted on.
• 1:26:24
  We can make it voted on should we? Should we try to make
• 1:26:27
  that happen. I think we can pokemon go the polls on this. There's
• 1:26:30
  only us put up on Twitter. Sure, why not? See why not?
• 1:26:33
  Let's do it? But the best round up? All right, Well,
• 1:26:36
  thank you again, Kevin and Sarah so much for hanging out. This
• 1:26:40
  has been really great. Kevin, we love your podcast. It's just always
• 1:26:45
  been really fun to hang out and chat with you. Sarah. It's the
• 1:26:47
  first time we've been able to meet. I know it's been a few years
• 1:26:50
  that you would at least you and I have been interacting on Twitter, and
• 1:26:53
  it's just like a great moment to be able to hang out and actually spend
• 1:26:58
  some time with you. After all these years, so thank you again so
• 1:27:00
  much, and uh, let's at the end of the day hope that I
• 1:27:03
  went, wow, what are you unifying message in about