Latest / Connect Call / EP21 - Advocate Like a Pro: Tips for Effective Advocacy with Doctors | Nadea Egan

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EP21 - Advocate Like a Pro: Tips for Effective Advocacy with Doctors | Nadea Egan · Connect Call

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, it's Hannah with another episode of Connect Call, where I often say I don't have a clinical background, but I do have a PhD for picking up the phones for families and crisis.
• 0:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I always say I'm a connector and a collector and I want to showcase the good people doing the good work out there, but I'm not an expert in know everything on everything, but I do have a sense of
• 0:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: how to connect people with the right people to get what they need.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And with that, I would like to welcome my guest here today, is it not yet egan or McPherson.
• 0:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Egan, I am now an Egan, so you are sweating.
• 0:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, Egan, not yet.
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to give a little bit of your bio.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not yet brings more than 25 years of experience in business management, operations, and business development, including nearly 15 year specializing in behavioral health care.
• 0:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Her early career-spanned operations management, hospitality, casting, television production, along with numerous speaking engagements on marketing panels throughout the US.
• 1:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: more importantly, every, but this is very impressive bio that will be in the show notes.
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Nadia came into my orbit and worlds because we work together.
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: We were very lucky.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: The universe brought us together, robbed us of time, but brought us together to give our love to a program that we work a little bit with in California.
• 1:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And through this time of working with Nadia,
• 1:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't stress enough how lucky I am that I have people like it's you and I say this, but I mean it like And I said this to I was at a guest earlier, Jolene, and we were talking about it like there's just these people that we'll walk into a room and it's electric and you know
• 1:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to change you and change somebody else, and kind of like just they're going to bring the good good, you know, and in the work that we do as helpers and healers, or as I say angels and human suits, there's also a lot of bad apples out there.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a lot of unwell people and there's a lot of people that are probably in this work for mental health and addiction or whatever behavior or help that are just in it for the wrong reasons and not yet is not that person and what I really also.
• 2:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: connected with Nadia about and felt very strongly and is this, we just were talking about it before you know, we got on is, there's nothing I don't like more.
• 2:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Does that make sense then somebody who goes on social media or goes and puts themselves out there as one to empower women, but doesn't do the damn thing right like they're like I'm a girls girl or you know I'm gonna stay your name when you're not numbering, but they really don't and I joke with not the others maybe six of us women in the industry that actually do it when I say do it.
• 3:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean and this isn't like, hello my back.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: There were women who came into our lives and people that came into our lives when we were first starting out, I think, who mentored us and wanted the best for us and we're looking out for us.
• 3:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to do that for others and so do you.
• 3:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think I'm the voice that I'm more
• 3:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I should have gotten into PR.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I hype up other people more than they do myself, but the reason why I wanted to have Nadia on the show today.
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just blabbing because I'm nervous.
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can say, just say hi.
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm nervous.
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 3:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's so funny, like I always want to talk like this all the time.
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know.
• 4:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: The reason why I wanted Nadia on the show today and to have a very important conversation that I think no one really talks about enough.
• 4:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think where it started for me
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're seeing it now all over the headlines a little bit with this a little bit and we don't need to get into all of it but with this Lindsey Clancy case where you have a woman who, in my opinion, in many opinions, she truly asked for help and advocated for herself and said to many providers and many people,
• 4:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: about how she was feeling and how medication was feeling.
• 4:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: My point is this, is there's, you know, so much out there judgment of what should have been done.
• 4:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And what I know to be true is, naturally I think, and I think not able to agree with me, and we're going to talk about it, is when people, whether it's going to a lawyer, going to a doctor, going to a psychiatrist,
• 5:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: um, you're obviously in front of somebody who is the expert, right?
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so you will follow their lead.
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: But unfortunately, what I see time and time again is people's voices get lost.
• 5:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And because of that, you're just taking the next pill or taking that diagnosis or taking, I'm not saying to, and just not advocating for how you're feeling and and, and
• 5:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just blabbing, but what I mean is when we hear the phrase advocating for yourself, right?
• 5:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to go into the questions.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: My transitions by the way are getting better and better.
• 5:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: When we hear the phrase advocating for oneself, when it comes to your health, what does it mean to you?
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what do you think people hear when they hear that?
• 6:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, how you got into, not how you got into this work, but why you do this work and why it is important to you and to work in this beautiful field of helping people when it comes to behavioral health mental health addiction, all of that go.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you for asking.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: My name is Nadia and it's actually a really relevant question to this to the topic today because I got into the behavioral health care field after spending eight years, the 10 years working in entertainment and I was a television producer and I ended
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: at a point in my life where I needed something more meaningful, out of my work.
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I did end up in residential treatment for alcohol abuse.
• 7:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, me too.
• 7:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Go on.
• 7:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when I came out, I felt that I really, I needed to do something meaningful.
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that period of time when I was in treatment, I,
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: received care that wasn't necessarily appropriate for me.
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: It made, it took a while.
• 7:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was in and out for a couple of years trying to figure it out.
• 7:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, you know, a lot of people who need help in various ways, medically, psychologically, they don't know who to turn to, and they don't know what's right for them.
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they may not know how to advocate, which is where I was at the time.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know anything about the behavioral health care field.
• 7:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I went to the wrong treatment center for me.
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I worked with the psychiatrist that diagnosed me incorrectly.
• 8:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: It made the whole process take a lot longer than it should have.
• 8:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so when I finally did receive the right treatment back in 2015 and have been so
• 8:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: went, I came into working into the field and really just had a mission that anyone that came into my field of vision that needed support, I was going to work really hard to make sure they got the right kind of support.
• 8:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it, and that's about advocating really, yeah, which is what we're talking about today, right?
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 8:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And and and and with and thank you and thank you for being here and I adore you and I can't say enough about Malia you guys she is like, I don't she's the shit.
• 8:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, if you are lucky enough to, uh,
• 9:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: you know, be in her, what is it, line of vision or whatever the other vision or orbit as a friend as a colleague or as some as as as she's providing help for you, you are very fortunate.
• 9:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: You are an amazing and amazing woman and and we are very lucky that to have people like you in this field.
• 9:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I, but when I heard your story, I guess that woman, that was in treatment who did not advocate for
• 9:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: why didn't you speak up?
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: So what did you think advocating was at the time?
• 9:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you didn't say it.
• 9:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
• 9:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, really good question.
• 9:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you.
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: At the time, and I think that this will resonate with you, I didn't feel qualified to speak up.
• 9:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what qualifies one, right, it's kind of ridiculous because no one knows me better than me.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 9:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I, so I have probably the highest qualification for speaking up about what's going on with me, right, but at the time I was so.
• 10:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: lost and so scared that I just listened to whatever the quote unquote experts were telling me.
• 10:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I kept my mouth shut even when things didn't feel right.
• 10:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you know, when my then I'll be very candid here.
• 10:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: When the first psychiatrist diagnosed me with bipolar while I was in
• 10:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I had to deal with, you know, months and months and months of having this label and figuring out what, you know, what the steps were to treat it.
• 10:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Only to find out later on that.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now that I'm in the field and I know it was a ridiculous diagnosis, I couldn't be further from bipolar.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I needed to interrupt in because I said something on another episode about this.
• 10:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not asking people to be like, I'm not this diagnosis.
• 11:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not that in fight like, but I have a really hard time in the work that we do, and especially when we're, and I don't want to go off on the tangent, you know, when it comes to the stable stabilization, if somebody's, let's God forbid going to hurt themselves or somebody else
• 11:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: room for 15 minutes in a detox.
• 11:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have a really tough and you're detoxing off substances, which by the way, who isn't the color?
• 11:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody should be diagnosing anybody within the first 30 days.
• 11:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: In my 100% right, especially you're coming off substances like nobody.
• 11:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I always say to hang your hat on any of that, you should be questioning that because nobody
• 11:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, unless you're watching and following that patient for a period of time, and actually sobering them up to see how they're really showing up, I find it really, yeah, that's a whole mother episode of things that we can go on and on about that in the mental health world, but yeah, go on, sorry.
• 12:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so, you know, at the time, again, I just, I didn't know what I didn't know.
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 12:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was listening to what the people with the letters were telling me.
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And... Yeah, go.
• 12:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I just, um, I was, even when you weren't feeling well and getting, you know what I mean, that's what, yeah, so I think I think for those out there, um, the best way I can show what advocating is and how, because it was different for me personally.
• 12:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like, like in the work I do, I say I advocate for children for those kids out there that don't have a voice, I will speak up.
• 12:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I will also speak up for, you know, like I'm not a bystander.
• 12:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So like I will speak up and advocate, you know, and I got gave me a voice, but for people out there who are listening and watching, here's a situation that I think people can relate to.
• 13:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: my mom four years ago passed away from terminal cancer and during her, uh,
• 13:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we were in the UK, and my mother was very British, right?
• 13:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so with that, you were polite, and you didn't speak up, and you didn't question things, especially in the presence of a doctor.
• 13:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And she was being treated by one of the best oncologists in Wales at the time.
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Who was a brilliant man?
• 13:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't love his bent-eyed manner, but he was a brilliant man.
• 13:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: She at some point in pallet of care was on morphine.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And at home, she would be in almost tears telling me how the morphine wasn't working.
• 13:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's okay.
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: The more faint, and the reason why they have different types of treatment, pain killers is because one may not work for you, right?
• 14:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the morphine wasn't working.
• 14:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was making her uncomfortable.
• 14:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I said, don't worry, when we go to the doctor, I will say something if you don't feel comfortable.
• 14:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, no, no, no, no, no, I don't want you to make a thing out of it because I think it immediately and I might make this a t-shirt because I really feel like sometimes and I see this more in the south to people think a conversation is a confrontation.
• 14:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: and that's not what's happening.
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're just speaking up.
• 14:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're not arguing.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're not saying I know better.
• 14:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: But when I sat across that doctor, he said, how's the morphing going?
• 14:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And she was like, you know, it's, and I said, it's not working.
• 14:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's uncomfortable.
• 14:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's, she's, she's in pain.
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he didn't even look at me.
• 14:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Looked out at the paper and said, fine, we're increasing the dose.
• 14:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I looked at him and I said, with all due respect, I am asking you that we switch.
• 14:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we look, we've already done the morphine and increased the dose.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's look at fentanyl patches.
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's look at X, Y, and Z, which
• 15:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're designed for people in palliative care, by the way, the fentanyl patches and all that, you know, if you's recruiting for those who are dying and pain, you know, they are very effective and this was a perfect situation and I said to him, I'm not a doctor, but what I won't sit across and be good with is.
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: us not trying other options.
• 15:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: When I know this isn't working and we have limited time and I don't want my mother to have to be more uncomfortable, right?
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he, he was, you know, it was very sweet.
• 15:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: He said, well, they're very addictive.
• 15:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I go, she's dying.
• 15:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't care if we need to put her on like a formula that Willy Wonka comes up with, okay?
• 15:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: She, like, I don't care.
• 15:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this was, and I was advocating for my mother.
• 15:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was making my mother uncomfortable.
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I was like, no mom, I'm speaking up for you because I'm speaking up for how the patient is feeling.
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: In my other
• 16:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: personal story along the way with my mental health, where I learned how to advocate was similar to what was going on with Lindsey Clancy, but not similar.
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I did not thank God.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: to any woman who has to go through postpartum depression or psychosis of that sort, it is a hell.
• 16:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: What I do know from my treatment resistant depression, what I did know after going to like two or three residential mental health treatments, about nine years ago or two of them, nobody at any point.
• 16:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: was saying, um, let's look at your hormones or we're going to keep diagnosing you and upping this antidepressant, you know what I mean and mood stabilizer.
• 16:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And
• 17:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: when when we talk about advocating, it's about questioning, and it's also about, this isn't working.
• 17:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel well.
• 17:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Please hear me, let's try something different.
• 17:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not saying I'm gonna argue with you although you're the expert, you're the doctor, you know?
• 17:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think with no disrespect to doctors out there,
• 17:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: those prescribing, I think.
• 17:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, I just want to be really clear about something.
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love doctors.
• 17:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have doctors in my family.
• 17:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I work with, I have six physicians in my group that I work with that I adore.
• 17:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I think very highly of doctors.
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they have a very, very tough job.
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: But, and, and sometimes they can't necessarily see the entire picture and it is up to us as the patient to say something to say something.
• 18:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to put it all out there.
• 18:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I had a hysterectomy like seven weeks ago, right?
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to probably edit this out.
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And about like four weeks after three weeks after I got really winded going up the stairs long story short went to urgent care how to really funky EKG and they said we need to admit you to the hospital.
• 18:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And while I was in the hospital, I said it to every nurse and doctor and every cardiologist that kept meeting with me that I had a hysterectomy.
• 18:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And because they kept with all to respect staying in this lane of this is where I am the expert on the heart.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I kept saying, you sure doesn't have anything to do with the surgery and major hormone changes, right?
• 19:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: The good thing is I advocated for myself.
• 19:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: The bad thing I did is I didn't check with my surgeon who did the hysterectomy, which I shut of, because as soon as I left the hospital after them wanting a number of tests, couldn't figure out why my EKGs were all wacky.
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I spoke to my surgeon and I spoke to two women, one woman who had a friend of mine who had frozen her eggs years back, and another woman who had a hysterectomy, she was, oh, I had really fucked up EKGs too.
• 19:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's because of your hormones.
• 19:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so why I say this.
• 19:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I will be putting more episodes.
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll have an episode on this show talking about women's mental health and the reproductive system and how we have a very long way to go.
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, when it comes to advocating and for those providers in front of us to not only be educating, but also sometimes what I find
• 20:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I've just had a couple of times with bad doctors where I'll be like, you sure it's not my hormones blah blah blah blah, they'll be like, no, just go back to the psychiatrist.
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just go back to the psychiatrist.
• 20:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And make you feel or shame you because maybe they don't know, right?
• 20:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Instead of saying, I don't know, let's, let's think about this, right?
• 20:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: use a crazier thought because I do love doctors and I love providers, but I also love the providers who treat the person and not the number.
• 20:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And when I mean by that is, you know, so a lot of may work for a couple of your patients doesn't mean it's going to work for everybody and listen to your patient, you know, and so I think it's about.
• 20:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: uh, just practicing speaking up, you know what I mean?
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because unfortunately, and you see this in the work we do, where I have come across so many people who have tried so many different like, anti-depressants, or have tried a treatment that made them feel horrible.
• 21:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, why aren't you telling the doctor to this?
• 21:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, they just said just to keep taking it, you know?
• 21:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we touched on this, but let me ask again,
• 21:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: um, why do you think people don't speak up?
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's they think that it makes them like, I feel like, um, a, it comes down to a, I don't want to get too deep into it, but I feel like it's about a little bit about what you think about yourself and like loving yourself a little bit and what you deserve a little bit.
• 21:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Some of it.
• 21:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think.
• 21:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then also, but more importantly, I feel like people don't want to make anybody uncomfortable or, you know, or think by speaking up, they are telling a doctor, they know more.
• 22:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
• 22:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: But why do you think people don't advocate for themselves?
• 22:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a couple, I think there are a couple different things going on.
• 22:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: One, what you said, very, I feel like it resonates for sure.
• 22:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't want to, they don't want to look like they're attempting to tell a doctor.
• 22:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, that they know more than they do, right?
• 22:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the most obvious one.
• 22:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: But another one, which this might blow some people's minds, but is so, so simple, I don't know about you, but this happens to me, is you simply just don't think about it in the room.
• 22:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is overwhelming to be sitting there in a gown and staring in the face of somebody who you respect and also fear because we fear them.
• 22:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're scared they're going to tell us something horrible about ourselves and your mind just goes blank.
• 23:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have actually counseled because like I said, I have doctors in my family.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Some of my best friends or doctors,
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I've told this to people over and over again.
• 23:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: create a list in your phone right throughout the weeks leading up to seeing your physician, what's been going on so that you can reference it in the room because once we get into the room, all of those feelings make your mind go blank.
• 23:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, it's it a part of it is advocating yes, but a part of it is just not feeling
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you don't feel confident about what you're saying, but if you could just refer to facts, the list, oh, on Thursday last week, this happened, then you don't have to feel confident in the room because you have the facts right here that you can share from.
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's one thing that I think people don't think about and it's really prevalent when you get into the room, your mind just goes blank.
• 24:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we have to advocate for yourself and I think that's such a good point because it's so true, especially when a doctor's coming in and they have a few minutes with you and they're just like rushing and they're like, don't worry, we're going to talk about this next time we're going to do that and you're like, yeah, yeah, the other the other thing that I think.
• 24:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I had to learn with my medical appointments, but definitely with my mental health appointments, when it came to medication, when it came to how I was feeling or how I was showing up was I recognized, I needed my wife in that room.
• 24:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I needed
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: somebody to have a second set of years to hear, but also to report on what they were seeing.
• 25:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Does that make sense?
• 25:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And advocate like Hannah's not in a great, you know what I mean?
• 25:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And just like I kind of did for my mother, but like speak up and say, this is what I'm seeing or you know, having that second set of years and boys sometimes for certain, you know what I mean to speck up?
• 25:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: keeping it to this clancy case is what's so maddening to me is like a perfect example is after speaking to so many of my friends who have given birth and know I have not given birth.
• 25:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have had mental health issues associated with my reproductive system, but I will say I have not given birth, but to my friends that have.
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I noticed this through the years too with the issues they had leaving their child and felt anxious or worried that something bad was going to happen to their kid when they left the room or not attaching to the baby I remember thinking.
• 26:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I asked this again recently.
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I took a survey.
• 26:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, when you guys gave birth, right, before you left the hospital, did any doctor, anybody, as they're going through all the things that are needed for the baby, and to keep the wellness of the baby, did anybody sit in front of you and your spouse, or family, whoever was going to be in that household?
• 26:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And say, hey, you know, these are some things to look out for.
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: One in five women are going to have their mental health rot.
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: by childbirth.
• 26:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's temporary.
• 26:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: It could be like this.
• 26:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: It could be like that.
• 26:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: But these are some things I need you to look out for.
• 26:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if so, these are ways to intervene or these are, you know what I mean?
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely not.
• 26:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: That does not happen at all.
• 26:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I know it doesn't because I women don't even, and I'll be honest with you.
• 26:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I get so frustrated watching on social
• 27:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: just having no empathy for what is going on is like do your mom like no one told you about any of this so much so that you don't even talk about it with your other mom friends because you feel like this.
• 27:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
• 27:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so my point is is where did I start with this?
• 27:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: My point is but to your point, I remember thinking when I was leaving the hospital with my infant son,
• 27:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: How are they trusting me to make sure he doesn't die?
• 27:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, how?
• 27:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I come from a very medical family.
• 27:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: My mom and the nurse, my aunt, my grandma, like, we did everything at home.
• 27:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I felt underqualified to take an infant home.
• 27:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And no, and a lot of it was hormonal hysterics, you know, a lot of it was also just not knowing what I don't know.
• 27:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was incredibly terrifying.
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 27:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: They do not talk to you.
• 28:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't, they don't bring it up.
• 28:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't talk about it.
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's a really, and I think because they don't, you've got moms that go home.
• 28:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: feeling so uneducated and like what's shocking to me is you have these two young parents as we've seen and I've seen this with other cases too.
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Highly intelligent people have no idea what is happening, have no idea how to intervene, how to support, when to intervene and support.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I get like, if we're talking about the wellness of this baby, right, like, it's kind of like, we got a first talk about the wellness of Mama Bear, right?
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like, I mean, I just don't understand and I'm gonna have this brilliant woman on my show, her name is Dr. Carly Snyder.
• 28:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's one of
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because, and she's going to talk more about this, I found her because after years of struggling with my depression and having these episodes that were having every time.
• 29:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I could tell because I tracked my moods they were around my reproductive cycle, but no every time I'd go to my gynecologist and say can you test my hormones they would send me to an endocrinologist and you would just you know how being on this test that.
• 29:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it was pretty, a lot of things, you could, you were looking good like basically it wasn't specific enough so I was kept falling into, no, you're normal, you're good, you're normal, you're good.
• 29:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you're worried about your depression anxiety, you need to go back to your psychiatrist, go back to your psychiatrist, and then they were diagnosing me.
• 29:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember, I met with Carly Snyder.
• 29:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, am I crazy?
• 29:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: What is wrong?
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: What's going on?
• 29:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And after further testing and going to a hormone specialist, because I spoke up and really getting down to the nitty gritty, they saw that some of my testosterone was completely depleted.
• 30:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's was contributing to my depression.
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Also, I was diagnosed with PMDV.
• 30:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: um, which perimenopausal, uh, something something to sort her, but more importantly after meeting with Carly, what she taught me was she goes, that's what's so upsetting to her as a provider that doctors aren't saying, hey, you know, if you have fibroids, it can affect your mental health.
• 30:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, if you have endometriosis, it can affect your mental health.
• 30:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 30:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, name who?
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, ladies.
• 30:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: When you're pairing menopausal, these are the things that are going to happen.
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you're, you know what I mean, in menopause, these are the things that are going to happen.
• 30:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel I don't understand in medical school or in the training, like are we not talking about it because we don't want to talk about
• 30:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: like the you know what I mean like put it out in the universe that it could happen because it's happening.
• 31:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's so many my friends are suffering so many women are out there suffering because they're not advocating and also on top of it we're all made to feel crazy because you know no one's correlating the reproductive system to one's mental health and how it has such an effect.
• 31:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean, and for men too, with their hormones and changes.
• 31:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And
• 31:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I will talk more about Dr. Schneider with that.
• 31:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think, and I think what we saw with this Clancy case and with other situations is people just accept the diagnosis, they accept taking the meds, changing the meds, and up the mood stabilizer.
• 31:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes in the mix of it, because I do love doctors, it's like this for all professions, sometimes an ego is in the middle of it.
• 31:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: right where they're just not going to want to hear you.
• 31:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know best of a doctor.
• 31:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's me's also a red flag.
• 32:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you are in front of a provider who doesn't hear you and see you, change your provider.
• 32:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to see them.
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's another piece.
• 32:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like people don't ever think, you know what?
• 32:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're not listening to me.
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're not seeing who I am.
• 32:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I could go see somebody else.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
• 32:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: because I saw some gynecologists for years who kept saying, Hannah, it's you.
• 32:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You need to go to psychiatrists.
• 32:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Go back to the psychiatrists kid.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember I finally met a gynecologist who's like, foreign concept.
• 32:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I actually am going to treat you and not the number.
• 32:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about it.
• 32:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: What how are you feeling?
• 32:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay?
• 32:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what you need in front of you.
• 32:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a lot of competition how they're people go to like go see other people, you know, but you want to be in front of medical and and behavioral health providers that you feel comfortable to talk to and to advocate for yourself.
• 33:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 33:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I just, um,
• 33:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: we both feel very strongly about this.
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think why it's just, again, so upsetting as a lot of bad things can happen because you're not advocating for yourself, you know what I mean?
• 33:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, also the number, you touched on something I want to bring up.
• 33:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: because this happened to me recently, not recently, but in recent months, was about the numbers.
• 33:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: When I finally found a doctor who, or before I finally found a doctor who would do HRT for a period of pause, my previous doctor,
• 33:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: hormone replacement therapy.
• 33:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, my previous doctor was telling me that I was all of my, my labs were in range.
• 33:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 33:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I was talking about.
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And yet I was having all of these symptoms.
• 33:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I had a laundry list of symptoms.
• 34:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the last, she's telling me that my labs are showing that everything's within range.
• 34:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 34:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Range.
• 34:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I looked up the ranges and I compared them to what my labs were saying and the changes in my lab were, for example, if the range is here, previous years I was over here and now I'm over here.
• 34:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I'm still in range, the range is so big, but the range is so big and if I bond to the very low end of the range, of course I'm going to feel it and to not treat me because I'm still in a range.
• 34:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: is it's not even to like recommend, hey, maybe it's time to go see something someone because I and that's again that's that's another red flag if you want to work with a provider that not only like can recognize when it's time, keep getting the thumbs up on my, my recording to that when only you do.
• 35:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know the lens, but another green flag for somebody that you're sitting in front of who's treating you is to own that you know what it's time you should be seeing a hormone replacement therapist specialist okay or go see somebody that you know don't keep
• 35:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, saying no, this is, you know, because I think we're doing a lot of distrust until things start changing with the testing and I just feel like more doctors therapists like hiatus people have to also recognize I'm not helping this person anymore.
• 35:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not helping them.
• 35:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's time for them to move on.
• 35:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Also, I want to stress when I say advocating for all of you chatGBT, Google, you know, we're going to look up all these answers for everything, but definitely seeing this more with chatGBT.
• 36:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: When we say advocate, that doesn't mean you come in and say, well, chat said, or I read online that, or my neighbor's kid felt
• 36:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you can do research, but it's also about just tracking you, you know, I always say if you're being put on a new medication and behavior, I'll track your moods every day right down, just a sentence how you're feeling, because we forgot that too and just keep tracking that and say, you know what I'm not getting better.
• 36:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's been four to six weeks.
• 36:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: There is in a shift.
• 36:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to, or, hey, those black box things you were talking about.
• 36:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm kind of feeling them.
• 36:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's time to change the medication, you know?
• 36:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And again, a red flag is if if you are in front of a provider who doesn't hear you, see you and take that into consideration and continue to kind of bulldoze over you or, or, which I can't stand makes you feel like you're,
• 37:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: little crazy.
• 37:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I say this because why I bring this up is I did have a bad experience when I was living in the UK for two years.
• 37:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I had great providers.
• 37:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
• 37:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I also realized that a couple of the virtual providers I had to sit in front of for COVID were not and they shouldn't, they didn't know they weren't educated on all the mental health stuff that can go on with a woman's body.
• 37:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: being okay with that, they defodged or laughed when the diagnosis was brought up.
• 37:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, or when I said, you know, what about my PMDD and whatever that is, you know what I mean?
• 37:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's also that can really be a
• 37:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you're advocating not, you know, keep advocating.
• 37:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's their problem not yours, but, you know, but I think, I think, I think some takeaways from this definitely, I heard definitely, which is huge is right stuff down before you go into that appointment, right?
• 38:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you come out of the appointment, I saw this so much with young adults too.
• 38:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, you know, not young adults, but when I was working with some young adults, you know, before they went into treatment or when they were seeing the psychiatrist and they would not say anything to the psychiatrist but then come out of the appointment and just be like,
• 38:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: you know what I mean and talk about all the stuff and how they're not feeling well or it's making them tired or your stomach hurts and I'm just like if you can't speak up which is okay too let's have somebody in the room who can speak up for you.
• 38:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
• 38:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Nadia, I would have you in any room to speak for me.
• 38:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would have you in any room to speak for me.
• 39:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Really?
• 39:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're like my height man.
• 39:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I am.
• 39:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Nadia should be the president.
• 39:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I like to ask this question to all my guests.
• 39:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you are sitting in front of a girlfriend of yours or a collar.
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think this episode is really more geared, I think, for the female viewers and listeners.
• 39:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's how I feel.
• 39:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so the guys out there, you should be advocating for yourself too, but this month and these episodes are really going to be geared more for women's mental health and reproductive system and advocating all the good stuff.
• 39:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you were sitting in front of a girlfriend of yours who is struggling or you were speaking to somebody on the phone where they felt exhausted.
• 39:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: that's another piece of it too.
• 39:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: People don't speak up because they're so tired and what would be some parting words you would hope they would hear if there was nothing else.
• 39:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: No pressure.
• 40:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: If I was speaking to a woman,
• 40:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, who was, can you sum up that question really quickly again?
• 40:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, I get very verbose if you were getting off the phone with a friend or with a woman you'll never see again, let's say, or never have the opportunity to talk to you for like if there's one thing you'd want them to hear when it comes to advocating to take away, what would it be?
• 40:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay, one thing, um, or two.
• 40:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, because the writing it down is a really important thing to me.
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually a really good one.
• 40:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a really, and I've had a lot of success after I started doing that.
• 40:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the second thing I will say is don't just don't let anyone railroad you.
• 40:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't let anyone
• 40:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Gaslight you, your feelings are valid, your, you are the expert of your own body in mind.
• 41:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: You won't.
• 41:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: You may not, you may not, you know, have gone to school for it, but you have done your,
• 41:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: million hours on you.
• 41:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 41:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you best and don't you best and don't give up like, you know, I was speaking to a friend of mine recently whose daughter was just having the weirdest symptoms around her skin and the way she was feeling and I was watching my friend.
• 41:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like so many other mothers literally go from one doctor to one practice to one different I was German Hologist we're gonna go see this neurologist we're gonna and she was on this journey and when I said It was journey to find answers.
• 41:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't like I don't like what you said so now I'm gonna go to another doctor I didn't like that's I'm gonna go to another doctor.
• 41:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
• 41:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's it again difference in that it not
• 41:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: to, you have to this one life to live.
• 42:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: So to really find out what's going on or to feel better if the person in front of you is not doesn't have that answer, keep going and keep.
• 42:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: asking.
• 42:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Keep asking the questions and keep, you know, talking about it and not accepting just what one doctor says because you're tired or because you think they have an MD or because you got the appointment that they know what they're talking about because it's like any we're oral humans, everybody doesn't know everything, you know what I mean?
• 42:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 42:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 42:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And when we say advocating, it's also you're helping paint a picture for for doctors medically and men, for mental health.
• 42:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you tell them the truth, the whole truth and nothing about the truth and all of it, you know what I mean?
• 42:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Don't keep be pleased, be honest and truthful, and just speak up as much as you can about how you're feeling on certain things.
• 43:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, here, here.
• 43:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Nadia, I always like to say, we're out of time, but we're none of hope.
• 43:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, but I really, I, I, I, I'm lucky to have you as a friend.
• 43:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm lucky to have you as a colleague.
• 43:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And um, right back at you.
• 43:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: there needs to be more women like Nadia in this world.
• 43:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, and if you need any consulting, dada dada, please look up Blackburn clinical services.
• 43:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, but all of Nadia's information will be on our show notes.
• 43:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you again, and this is just another episode of Connect Call and Can't Wait to see you guys next week.
• 43:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning into this episode of Connect Call.
• 43:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: As we conclude, remember that insights shared are intended for informational and educational purposes only and should not substitute professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.
• 43:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: We strongly recommend consulting a qualified medical health professional or health care provider for personalized advice tailored to your unique needs.
• 44:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Your mental health journey is important and having the right support is essential.
• 44:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you're experiencing a mental health crisis or require immediate assistance, please reach out to a mental health provider or emergency services in your area.
• 44:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're grateful to have you as part of our community and your well-being remains our priority.
• 44:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: So follow us on social media to stay connected and be sure to catch one of our episodes on our YouTube channel.
• 44:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're here to support you every step of the way.