Latest / Drawn of History / Stephen Wilson Jr. _ This Past Weekend w_ Theo Von _630(M4A_128K)

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Stephen Wilson Jr. _ This Past Weekend w_ Theo Von _630(M4A_128K) · Drawn of History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Today's guest is a musician and a songwriter, originally by
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: way of southern Indiana. He's got that voice in him,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: he's got that power in him, he's got it. He's
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: got it! He has a new single, Gary, that's out now,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: and a sold-out tour in the spring. I'm thankful to
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: finally get to sit down with Mr. Stephen Wilson Jr.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Shine on me, and I will find.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've just, uh, I'm such a fan of
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: yours on all levels, your podcast and your comedy and
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: your humanity. Um, so yeah, it's, it's, it's an honor
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: to be here.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Steven Wilson Jr. Thank you so much. Yeah,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: it's really cool. I think this is one of those
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: moments where I feel, uh, yeah, like just so lucky
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: that I get to, um, that some of this job
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: has ended up like this, like getting to talk to
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: people that, uh, that, yeah, some people would love to
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: sit down with, you know, um, so thanks so much, man.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it. You have, uh, you just had, you
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: had a pretty decent run at the CMAs this year.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a, you know, new artist of the year.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: I was nominated for new artist of the year, which
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: blew my mind.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: And did you win a red clay strays one who, uh,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Zach top one, Zach top one, very well deserved.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Um, that man has had a big year and, um,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of his and I was, I
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: was very happy for him and I was really rooting
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: for everybody. Um, But myself, I didn't really think I
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: even had a prayer's chance in hell of winning. But
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: I was just like, honestly, being nominated was a huge
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: win for me because, you know, I wasn't supposed to
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: be there on paper. You know, like there's a lot
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: of there's a lot of things that I contradict. And
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: so just being there, you know, it meant a lot
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: just to be out there. And it was really wild
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: when I remember when they said my name and like
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: it didn't feel Like I was like, that's somebody else.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: That's not me. That's like a.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure. Well, do you think of yourself as
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: country music?
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Um, I do.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Um, I am a country boy. I grew up in
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: the country. Um, so I am very country just by, um,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: by culture. Um, And I cannot help but write country songs. I,
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: I grew up listening to country music and classic rock.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: I grew up in body shops and it was all
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: classic rock and country music, uh, old school and nineties.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: And so that was kind of my pedigree, my listening pedigree. Um,
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: and then I, I grew up very country, very agrarian, um,
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: kind of hunting for our own food. And I ate
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: a lot of squirrels growing up and, rabbits and, um, Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: we just grew up very country. It wasn't trendy at
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: all either. It was like just a means of survival.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: My dad was raising three kids on his own. And
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  Speaker 2: so he just went out and killed food. It was
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: a lot cheaper than buying it at the grocery store. Like,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: you know, one slug, one deer slug could feed you
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: for like three months. So like that's the way he
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: looked at it.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, there's a beautiful group right there. You guys kids, huh?
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: That's my dad.
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  Speaker 1: Aww.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: His three little ones, and that's me.
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  Speaker 1: That's you on the bottom left there, kind of the middle?
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in the middle, yeah.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: And who's that dime on his lap, huh? And I
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  Speaker 1: mean that respectfully, I'm such a child.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Who's that beautiful young lady? Yeah, that's my little sister,
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Lacey J.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Lacey J.
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  Speaker 2: Lacey J., yeah, named after Lacey J. Dalton, another country singer.
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  Speaker 2: But yeah, she's his little girl, and she is, She
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  Speaker 2: is beautiful, and she's a beautiful person in general. She's
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  Speaker 2: really kept our whole family. Me and my brother right there,
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  Speaker 2: we're like Irish twins. We're only like a year and
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  Speaker 2: a few months apart. So we grew up beating the
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: hell out of each other. We were both boxers. My
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: dad right there in this picture, he had just won
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: the Golden Gloves for like the third or fourth time
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  Speaker 2: in a row, and he was– probably just running over
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  Speaker 2: to like Olin Mills or somewhere at Walmart and grabbing
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  Speaker 2: this picture real quick. So just so like, just that
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  Speaker 2: there's proof that we existed and proof that he did this.
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  Speaker 2: And I always find it wild that he had time
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  Speaker 2: to even snap that picture amidst his life. It was
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  Speaker 2: so crazy at the time.
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  Speaker 1: And for a dad to put that together, that didn't say,
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  Speaker 1: you know, that wasn't really the dad world. So he
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  Speaker 1: was a single dad raising you guys?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was driving a bus in the morning and
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  Speaker 2: then working at a body shop and training to be
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  Speaker 2: a boxer. He was wanting to be a pro boxer,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: but a lot of things, you know, he had to
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: really kind of focus on being a dad and kind
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  Speaker 2: of had to put his boxing career, because he really
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  Speaker 2: had a very promising career ahead of him. And so
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  Speaker 2: a lot of my dreams, I live kind of, you know,
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  Speaker 2: for him and myself, because he put a lot of
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  Speaker 2: his dreams on the back burner. to raise me like,
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  Speaker 2: and he also created me. So like he, like he
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  Speaker 2: kind of had to do that.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: You know, like, so, but you know, a lot of
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  Speaker 2: people don't take that responsibility. And, uh, when I see
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  Speaker 2: that picture, uh, I have like a, like you said, a,
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  Speaker 2: a memory.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Um, we either got the day, he's got great dimples
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: or somebody caught him with two good.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: No, yeah. He's got great dimples.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: He does.
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  Speaker 2: Okay. I was going to get as the same ones. And, uh, But, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I see that guy right there, and about a year
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  Speaker 2: from that picture, he would have been curling my little
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  Speaker 2: sister's hair and getting her ready for kindergarten. And even
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: though his eyes were swollen shut from sparring the night before,
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  Speaker 2: I have, like, distinct memories of him, like, getting her
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  Speaker 2: ready for school and being, like, a dad to a
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  Speaker 2: very young little girl, like, and, like, you know, crimping
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  Speaker 2: her hair and curling it and, you know, being a
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  Speaker 2: dad but also doing feminine things, like, because there was
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: no one to do the feminine things. So he was like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: I got to be dad. And he was really good
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  Speaker 2: and he knew how to do the dude, the dad
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  Speaker 2: dude part. Like he had me and my brother boxing
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: every night and we were hunting and fishing and doing
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  Speaker 2: all the dude things. But he had also had to
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  Speaker 2: be a dad to a little girl that was like
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  Speaker 2: the light of his life. Wow. That was like quite
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  Speaker 2: the responsibility. And I look back on that and I,
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  Speaker 2: I have like, like I said, just such a distinct
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: memory of him curling her hair, like while morning cartoons
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: are playing right before we got on the school bus. And, uh, Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: he was quite the dude.
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  Speaker 1: What was his name?
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Stephen Wilson. Oh, he was senior. He just never knows.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they'll throw a junior on somebody just because they
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: don't know what's going on. Yeah, I know. Or they're
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: just a NASCAR fan. They'll tack it onto the back
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  Speaker 1: of their kid's name.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, like a donkey tail. They just put it on
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  Speaker 2: there like a junior.
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  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, we'll pin the tail on this child, you know?
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  Speaker 2: No, I'm very much a junior. It's very much a
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  Speaker 2: thing in boxing especially. Like, you know, I joke around that,
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  Speaker 2: you know, my– You know, my dad, you know, he
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  Speaker 2: was named after a martyr in the Bible. My grandmother
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  Speaker 2: named him after a guy that had rocks thrown at
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  Speaker 2: him until he died in the Bible. Stephen with a Ph,
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  Speaker 2: by the way, which makes a lot of sense because
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  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure my dad was stoned when I was born.
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  Speaker 5: Was he?
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  Speaker 2: That's the joke.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, the Ph level of his brain was probably weed
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  Speaker 1: probably then. It might have been plus 40 then. Depends
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  Speaker 1: on if he was on some serious gas or not.
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  Speaker 2: He did like. Perhaps the country cabbage.
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  Speaker 1: The story of Stephen from the Bible. Stephen, the first
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  Speaker 1: Christian martyr. Oh, the first Christian martyr was stoned to
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  Speaker 1: death outside Jerusalem for his faith, as described in Acts
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  Speaker 1: 7 of the Bible. His executioners, including a young Saul,
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  Speaker 1: threw rocks at him after he testified about Jesus. Yep.
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  Speaker 1: Why did Saul not want him to testify? Did he
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  Speaker 1: not believe him or did he just not want him
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  Speaker 1: sharing the truth?
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  Speaker 2: Well, Saul at the time, this is pre-Paul, right? because
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  Speaker 2: Saul turned into Paul once he saw Christ, like the
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  Speaker 2: spirit of Christ appeared before him, and that's when he
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  Speaker 2: became Paul. But at that point, Saul was very much
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  Speaker 2: a figure of the Jewish religion. He was a very
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  Speaker 2: high-ranking Jewish official. So he was kind of like a
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  Speaker 2: high-ranking individual, and so he was really, in his mind
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  Speaker 2: at that time, probably just doing his job. not really
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  Speaker 2: knowing why he was doing it. But then he had
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  Speaker 2: very much a come-to-Jesus moment, no pun intended, and that's
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  Speaker 2: when he became Paul. And he wrote literally probably two-thirds
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  Speaker 2: of the New Testament, or at least a lot of.
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  Speaker 1: It, or half of it at least. This says here,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: and we use perplexity AI, and it says before his conversion,
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  Speaker 1: Saul was a zealous Pharisaic Jew.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a Pharisee.
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  Speaker 1: Pharisee. was a zealous Pharisee who believed followers of Jesus
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  Speaker 1: were dangerous heretics. So from his perspective, Stephen's preaching against
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  Speaker 1: their rejection of Jesus and his criticism of their misuse
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  Speaker 1: of the temple was blasphemous and deserved death under the
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  Speaker 1: understanding of the law. That zeal led him to participate
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  Speaker 1: by giving approval and overseeing the execution, which he later
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  Speaker 1: remembered with deep sorrow when he became the Apostle Paul. Wow.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Gosh, dude. I mean, that's got to be a lot
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  Speaker 1: to carry because if Stephen was the first Christian martyr—
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  Speaker 1: And you had him stoned because your faith wasn't there yet.
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  Speaker 1: And then to look back through a different perspective.
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  Speaker 2: Not much longer after that for him to be like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: now I'm preaching the same gospel without rocks being thrown
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  Speaker 2: at me. And now that has to be quite the
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: thing to come to terms with. And I think that's
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: what motivated him to write so many epistles of the
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: New Testament and became such a huge figure of the
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: New Testament. There's a lot of books that they believe
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  Speaker 2: were written by Paul, like the book of Hebrews. There's
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: no author, but they believe even he wrote books that
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: nobody has any author to. They can— Identify his style
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  Speaker 2: of writing and be like, it had to be Paul.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. So, yeah. People love your style of writing, man.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Speaking of that. I grew up very religious. That's why
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: I talk about it. I grew up in a Pentecostal
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Nazarene kind of church, a lot of holy rolling. And
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: I read a lot of the Bible.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I just started going to a Bible study.
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  Speaker 1: That's the first time I've ever been to a Bible
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  Speaker 1: study in my life.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
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  Speaker 1: It's been interesting to start to just learn about different
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: characters from the Bible and just different stories and stuff. So, uh, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I'm just glad that we even got to talk about that.
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  Speaker 1: And yeah. And that that's how your father was named
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  Speaker 1: from Steven. I didn't know that story now or remember it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And so that's pretty cool. Um, what was that? Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: The church you went to, uh, cause you're from the Midwest,
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  Speaker 1: you're from Indiana.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm, I'm from where I'm from. Southern Indiana, Kentucky, Kentucky, Anna,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: they call that area, like just North of Louisville, Kentucky, just,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: close to where Trevin's from. Okay. I would say that's
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: where the Midwest and the South kind of chest bump
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: or shake hands. It is literally a collision of two cultures.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: So people have Southern accents and watch NASCAR, but they
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: also put noodles in their chili, which is a very
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Midwestern thing. So, Yeah, there it is, Jackson County, Indiana,
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  Speaker 2: right there in the southern part.
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  Speaker 6: Oh, yeah.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: The Midwest, they'll starch up a protein in a second.
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  Speaker 1: They don't give a dang, brother. They'll put a starch
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: right in the middle of a protein. That's how they
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: are there. They love that.
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  Speaker 2: It's long winters. It gets cold. You need them starches.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. We used to go to the AC. It
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  Speaker 1: was an apostolic Christian church with my grandparents and some
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: of their neighbors, and it was in Illinois, like in
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: pretty much southern Illinois.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 1: And that was just part of the culture. Like people
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  Speaker 1: would eat their dessert at the beginning of dinner sometimes.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: So they made sure they got their dessert in. Like
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  Speaker 1: it was just kind of some of that culture.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't want to miss that. Don't get too
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: full and getting too excited on mashed potatoes. And they're like, damn,
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  Speaker 2: I ain't got nothing.
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  Speaker 1: It was almost a shame. If you didn't have space
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: available in your body for a beautiful dessert somebody had made,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: you almost felt a bit ashamed in a way.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you should be. Like think how much work
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: was put into that cobbler. Compared to those mashed potatoes, like,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: you ate the, like, the easy stuff.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, and sometimes you'd have somebody, you know, you'd have
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: such skilled labor in there, you'd have a real cobbler
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: making the cobbler. You'd have a damn shoelace going through
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: a peach, you know? Yeah. You'd be in there.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: Some boot lace cobbler. Oh, man.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: You'd find, yeah, you'd find half a soul in, you know.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: You'd be like, oh, is this crust or is this
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: part of an 11 1⁄2? Yeah, what is this cobbler, soulless? Yeah,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: you'd be like, no, not so much. He's got real
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: heels in the corner. But there was so much value,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: I remember in my grandmother's town, on cooking and on
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: having people over for meals, just that Midwestern culture on
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: hard work. And religion was a big part of it.
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  Speaker 1: Even their neighbors, if my grandparents couldn't take us to church,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: their neighbors would offer, we'll take them to church. And
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: we'd go and just get to see what some of
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: the different churches were like. And that was one of
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: the bigger religions in the area was apostolic Christian over there.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Did you see any exorcisms or any speaking in tongues
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: or movements of the spirit?
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Let me think. No, they had good doughnuts. They braided
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: their hair. The women did like one big braid. They
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: didn't show a lot. It was very kind of covered
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: up with some of the female culture.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: They braided their doughnuts?
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Uh, they did have those one. What is that one?
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: That's I don't know. It's, it's, I don't know what
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: it's called. I don't love it.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I don't either.
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: It's too much bread. And I don't think there's feeling
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: in it. You think there is when you're a kid.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: It's very deceiving.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Twisted donut.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: No, there's a word for it. And, um, it's, what
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: is that? Creller was one that I loved, but I
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: don't think this was a creller. Well, creller often made
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: from show pastry, French creller, Are you still with the
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: distinctive twisted shape? Well, maybe it was a Creller.
• 14:09
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Maybe it was, but yeah. I'm thinking of something else, though.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: It looked good as a kid, but it was deceiving.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was always like, oh, I want that. And
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: then you would eat it, and you'd be like, man,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: this is trash. I should have went with that Bavarian cream.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or I should have went with the one with
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: the frosting on it, you know? But we had a
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: beautiful time. Yeah, I didn't meet any. There was no seancery, really.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: I do remember there was a mentally handicapped fellow who
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: said he could drive, and he was a driver's ed instructor,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: and he wasn't. He was just, you know, and some
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: people believe he was mentally handicapped. Some were like, he's
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: possessed by the devil. I'm like, well, he's not possessed
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: by like a devil who just, you know, is sitting
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: around us, picking his nose and just, you know, he
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: was just a little bit off this dude named Brandon.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: And he was awesome, actually. He was kind of this
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: special guy between an adult and a kid. And he
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: never left that zone, you know, so there was something
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: kind of very approachable to him about kids. because he
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: was bigger than us, but he was just like us.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: And he taught me how to, he said he could drive,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: and we drove right into a snow bank, and the
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: police came and everything. But it was just exciting, though.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: He was a liar.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was. Which is a good place for him
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: to be at church. He was a Bears fan. I
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: think it was a tough time for everybody.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, I got to say, I saw quite a
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: few demon-possessed Brandons where I grew up.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: Did you?
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: I saw a lot of Brandons get demons cast out
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: of them.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Really? So you would see that at your church?
• 15:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: And what was that kind of like? Because someplace that's
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: a part of a culture and I believe in that
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: type of stuff. Do you believe in it?
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: I do. I've tried to deconstruct a lot of that
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: through because I have a science background. I've had to
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: really try to understand a lot of that and understand
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: what is real and what is not. But there was
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: a lot of it that was 100% real and there
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: was a lot of it that was 100% not. And,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: you know, I believe there's theatrics, but I also believe,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: you know, God is everywhere and I believe God did
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: show up in those places just like God will show
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: up in any place. But, yeah, I did see a
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: lot of, you know, grown-ass drywall dudes get, like, demons
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: cast out of them before lunch, and I'd be, like,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: sitting there with half a Pop-Tart in my stomach watching
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: this dude literally, like, throwing dudes around and, like, exhibiting
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: some superhuman strength.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, they're popping the tart right out of that dude.
• 16:35
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: That's the original Pop-Tart dude. He's a damn exorcist.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he just created the original Pop-Tart. That cherry-flavored Pop-Tart
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: was from it. A demon exorcism. That's why it's red.
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: You just know they could have gone with a lot
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: darker flavors, but they're like, let's make this available to children.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: But dude, a Pop-Tarts and exorcism, shit, I'm there, dude.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: I'll sit on your lap.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Speaking in tongues. I actually went, we'd, you know, some,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: you know, in our town, like an evangelist could like
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: show up to your church and like a traveling evangelist
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: and be like, we're having revival here this week. And
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: literally the church would shut down and be like, we're
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: having revival, y'all. This is what we're doing. And the
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: whole week would be a revival just because this dude
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: showed up and said, God told me to have a
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: revival here. And they would have a huge, like, big
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: tent revival.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: No way.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Dude, it's always been my dream to be a part
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: of something like that. Leap of Faith was my favorite
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: movie growing up.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Dude, that movie changed my life. Nobody knows about it.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: It's one of the greatest movies ever made. Literally changed
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: my life.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad you know about that movie. Like, very
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: few people I've been able to talk to about that movie. God,
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: it's so good. One of the most profound impacts on
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: me as a kid just because of how I grew
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: up in the music business and seeing performance and theatrics
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: and where is God and where isn't God. And that
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: movie is just brilliantly done. But I remember I went up,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: this dude showed up, and he said, tonight everybody's getting
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: slain in the spirit. You come up, you're getting slain.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if you know what slain means.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: You stand up there and the dude hits you and
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: you fall down and you're just out for however long.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: and everybody lined up, and I was like, I'm getting
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: slain tonight. I've never been slain.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: That's that freaking religious Percocet right there.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted it bad, and he's just knocking people
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: over left and right. Boom, boom, boom. I'd seen him
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: go down. I was like, he's coming to me.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: No way.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: He got to me, and he started speaking in tongues,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: and I remember he tapped me right in the forehead. Boom,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: like that. I was like, oh, that was– That was
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: kind of hard, and I was, like, training for the
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Golden Gloves at that time, so I was, like, a
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: little bit like, what's up? Like, he just, like, hit
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: me right in the forehead with his fingers.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: And then he started, you know, it didn't work. Like,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: it didn't take. And so he did it again even harder,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: and I was, like, kind of, like, mad about it
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: at that point because it actually kind of hurt. I
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: was like, is this dude trying to knock me out?
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Or, like, is he trying to slay me in the spirit?
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Anyway, he just– Yeah, let's look at the judge's cards.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: And I'm just like getting hit in the forehead by him,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: and then he just moved on. It was one of
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: the most heartbreaking things. He went to the next guy
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: and knocked him out. Next guy down, down.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: Were you being defiant, do you think?
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: I thought like, man, I guess I don't believe. Did
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: I like snap out of it? Was I not in
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: the moment? I didn't really know what to think because
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I was like a 19-year-old kid just trying to feel
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: God and try to get closer to God, and everybody
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: seemed to be doing that. And what was wild is
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: like he knocked everybody up and there was all these
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: bodies all over the floor. People like putting modesty cloths
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: all over them and stuff. And they're just out there asleep.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: So I had to like walk all over all these
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: bodies to get back to my like, Oh yeah. It's
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: kind of embarrassing.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: It's almost a walk of shame.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: It was, it was the most shameful walk I've ever
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: taken at church.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: I guess I'm not.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: I guess I'm not. And what really made me laugh,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: at least kind of helped break me out of missing
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: the spirit. I remember thinking like, what if I step on,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: cause everybody had their hands out, just kind of like
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: laid out. What if I step on someone's hand? Well,
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: I snap them out of it and then be like, ah,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: and then they'll go back in, or would they be out? Like, oh,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: you stepped on my hand, and now I'm no longer slain.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: I was like, how did.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Or like Stephen, the sinner, you know, old Stephen Wilson Jr.,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: who can't even get the dark arts exercised out of him,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: is over here waking up people who are doing well.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Breaking fingers with his steel-toed boots, shamefully walking back to
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: his pew, unslain.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I never thought about the walk of shame at church.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: What is a modesty cloth?
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Well, like, sometimes a lady would get slain and she's
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: wearing a skirt. You know, it's a Pentecostal church and
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: they cover and make sure like.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's a lot of skirt, dude. We used to
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: call them skirtons because they were so long, you know,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: and some of them would be actual curtains that they
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: had taken off of a window somewhere. Some of them
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: you'd even see like that stick, you know, the stick
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: that's on the edge of a curtain that you can like,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: if you turn it, it'll go up. Some of them
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: even have those. You're just sitting over there. Yeah, if
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: you're trying to get a pen, you got to spend
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: that thing for a long time.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they got blinds, those vertical blinds.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they cure you from blindness. Dude, that's pretty funny, dude.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Thinking about something like that, thinking about something that's funny
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: together with somebody is something that's awesome, dude.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like, it helped me get through it.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Because like you said, there was a shamefulness to it,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: but it actually was kind of funny.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: So they put that modesty blanket on them.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: There's a modesty cloth.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: That's good for that.
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Good for that, that at least, yeah, because there's some guys,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: some lurkers that would just be up there.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you never know. And like I said, in those churches, like,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: nothing– you didn't even show below the knee. So, like,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: if your skirt started to show some knee, they better
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: get a cloth over that.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: You can't be seeing that kneecap. Oh, yeah, boy.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Those– oh. Oh, I remember being young and just– God.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: I was kind of like a– I guess like a
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: little bit of a peeping Tom or whatever. I was, like,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: visually stimulated, I called it, and had a stepstool. Yeah.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: But– I remember for Christmas when you're, I wanted a ladder.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: My mom was like, what do you want a ladder for? Like,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: why do you want this little ladder? And I wanted
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: to go, I'd go watch people and just watch in
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: their houses. And I wasn't always looking for perverse stuff.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: I was just looking. I liked watching people live.
• 22:19
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Like, I think I hated being at our house. It
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: was like, it was like, uh, it wasn't fun. It
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: was just painful kind of a lot. And it was
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: like always like aggressive and, um, defensive. Um, Like the
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: second you were around, you had to be defensive. And
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: so I would go watch as other people live, like
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: watch somebody just be, you know, or just watch some
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: dad sit there in a chair, some mom make something
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: or some kid just, you know, like usually it's like
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: the living room or something. I wasn't getting real weird,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: but I love that kind of stuff, man. I love
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: just kind of absorbing how other people operated. That kind
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: of stuff was interesting. You're an OG people watcher. Yeah,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: I was a bit of a, yeah.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's, I mean, if.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Get your ladder together, you know? Yeah, but get half
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: a Pop-Tart in you and get over there and just
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: see what the.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I find comedians and songwriters in general are just like,
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: they're people watchers and then they watch so much people
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: that they end up, these narratives start to show up.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: And so you were probably just harnessing your skills for
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: what was to come.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think sometimes, yeah, you look back on your
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: life and you're like, oh, so much of that was to.
• 23:33
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  Speaker 1: good to be right. Play responsibly. I want to let
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  Speaker 1: you in on some information here. When I need more Bitcoin,
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• 25:02
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• 25:20
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• 25:42
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• 25:44
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• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Trade responsibly. One thing you said that was interesting a
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: little bit ago was you said, um, that your dad,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: like your dad was a boxer and he did these things.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: And then sometimes you're living out some of your dad's dreams. Um,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: and I, I find that to be interesting that, uh,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: that we feel like that as sons or that some
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: sons feel that way. And then also that some dads
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: will make sacrifices like you're saying, like, you know, and
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: it wasn't like, it was his choice that he made,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't like a sacrifice, but sometimes even
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: with choices, then come sacrifices that you don't see. And
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: then you have to make another choice then as to
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: what do I do here? Um, but that like, by giving,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: by giving birth to a son, by having an offspring,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: you are creating something that can go the next leg,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: almost like it's a, uh, one of those races where
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: they pass the baton. What is that?
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I think a baton race. Yeah.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: A baton race.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: And yeah.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: So yeah. It's not as hard as it seems.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure. It may not be called that. It
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: may be something way more complex.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: There it is, a baton, a relay race. Baton race,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: relay race. But it's like, this is as far as
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: I can get. And let me put this into you.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: But then it's interesting as the next runner, as the
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: next generation is, what do I, like how much do
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: I owe to this previous generation to carry on their dream?
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Do I owe anything? You know, what does it mean
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: to be a son? Like all those things kind of
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: were popping into my head as you were saying that.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: Wow. A generational relay race is not something I've put,
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: you know, to thought regarding all that. But that is
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: a very accurate observation there. Because when you see a
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: relay race, like the first runner or whatever, the runner
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: before you, the runners before you, like dictate how fast
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: you're going to run and they dictate your position in
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: the race.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: So, like, if they're running with everything they got, well,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: then you're only, like, doing a disservice to their effort
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: by not running with everything you got.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, that baton becomes something bigger than just
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: this thing you're holding in your hand. It's, like, the
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: sum of all their efforts.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And, you know. Yeah, and I think we used
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: to hear a lot more. I think when families– and
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: this is a hypothetical– but when families seemed closer– and
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: we needed more entertainment from our fathers and forefathers, and
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: we got lore passed down and family history. When there
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: was more storytelling, when you couldn't get as much storytelling from, like,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: phones and television and stuff as we can in the
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: past few generations, but when it came from, like, those,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: the predecessors of ours and our forefathers and mothers, that
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff, it, like, beat inside of us like
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: a drum, you know? Yeah, what kind of, did you
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: feel a pressure, like, Um, and did something happen? Your
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: father passed away?
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he passed away seven years ago at the age
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: of 59. And, um, it happened. Yeah, he was very
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: young and, um, it was, um, a sudden thing. And
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: it was.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Was he sick?
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Uh, well, he had like this pulmonary, uh, fibrosis thing
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: that was starting, but he ended up dying of a
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: pulmonary embolism, like a blood clot in his lungs. And, um, so, um, yeah,
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: it was, it was a very sudden thing that i
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: don't think anybody really expected and um he was living
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: in indiana he was living in southern indiana and um
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: he was you know he was you know doing quite
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: well and like you know everything kind of changed in
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: about six months and then um he you know suddenly
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: this symbolism showed up and i tried to get there
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: because he it was his body was like shutting down
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: What do you mean?
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: So an embolism? Can you bring it up just so
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: I know, Trevin? Sorry to interrupt you, Stephen.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: No, don't.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I've let information fly and I don't know
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: what it is. An embolism, a pulmonary embolism is a
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: blood clot that travels to and blocks an artery in
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: the lungs, cutting off normal blood flow and oxygen exchange
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: and creating a potentially life-threatening emergency. So had this been
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: happening for a while and then it got bad?
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And so he had had some, obviously some things
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: going on that he never knew was happening. And then, yeah,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: it got to that life-threatening emergency point. And then there
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: is a point where they can only do so much. And,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: you know, he was a bit of a cowboy and,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: you know, those kind of classic dudes that don't want
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: to go to the doctor and I'll tough it out
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: kind of thing. I'm sure there was a lot of
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: that mentality going into it. Also, there was poor health care.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: He was a victim of the American health care system, too,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: in that regard. I won't get into all that. But, yeah,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: that was a big part of it.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: We've talked about that a lot over the years. It's
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: a nightmare. And the stress they put people through trying
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: to deal with their own taking care of themselves, it's
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: like it's a nightmare.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Especially at his age, at 59, he was starting to
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: feel like, oh, you're just like a forgotten human. They don't,
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: you know, like. you know, they don't really want to
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: take care of you. They want to do everything, but
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: that like, you got to fight tooth and nail to
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: take care of yourself in that, at least where he
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: was at that time. And, uh, yeah, I, I got a,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: a really, um, panicked call from my sister that morning
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: and said, you need to get here. Like now, like
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: dad is very sick and we don't know what's happening.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: And they rushed him to the emergency room. And, um,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: I jumped in my car and sped up there and
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: I said goodbye to him in the middle of Kentucky
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: on the side of I-65 on an iPhone 8 on
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: the side of a highway. Pulled over to make it quieter?
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: And just so I didn't lose signal, I was so
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: worried that, because, you know, the middle of Kentucky is
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere, and, like, what if I drop
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: the call? Like, yeah. And, you know, there was, so
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: I just pulled over just, I mean, it was insane.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: I just, the sound of, like, semis flying by me, like,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: 90 miles an hour but literally being in a i
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: felt like i was in a bubble like not like
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: the world was like the world stopped around me in
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: that little car like a semi could have taken the
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: side of that car off i wouldn't even had known
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: it or you know i would have just i was
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: in a state of absolute shock and and horror it
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: was a very traumatizing experience but and you were on
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: a facetime call No, it was just on a video
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: or a normal phone call.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Um, was he able to speak to you?
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: He was.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: And he, uh, did he know that it could be
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: like his last moment? He knew he was bothering you
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: by asking this?
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: No, I talk about it a lot on stage. I
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: kind of relive it every night. And, um, that's been
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: a challenge for me, like mentally kind of, but it's been,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: but it's also been like the beautiful part of unpacking
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: trauma and grief. Cause you know, I'm not, like our,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: our music, like really, um, it, it finds the grieving.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: And I think it's, it's important for me to grieve
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: as well. Um, like I, I, I go through grief
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: every night and, uh, but you know, um, he was
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: such a gangster in that moment. He knew he had
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: maybe 90 seconds left on this earth. He knew he
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: was going, not just going, but going fast. He even
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: told me, he's like, I'm, I'm going Steven. And, um,
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: um sorry um but yeah he was uh he was
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: so calm about it um he said everything's gonna be
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: okay oh that was his first thing he said like
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: such a dad thing to say and um and he
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: said write a good song for me steven and he
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: said i love you i love you i love you
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: i love you four times and he wanted you to
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: know for sure yeah like he wanted There to be
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: no doubt. And, uh, so I say it more than
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: once all the time now because I, I, from that experience,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: I kind of realized that people are counting and, uh, I,
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: I was counting and, um, and it was weird. Like
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: on that last, I love you. It's almost like his
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: voice got quieter. Like he was literally being pulled. Like
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: God was snatching him from the universe in that last,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: I love you.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: And he was gone 30 seconds later.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, no.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: And that was it. I was the last person he
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: spoke to. And I'm really grateful that I got to
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: speak to him. And in that moment, in that car,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: I was so angry at God. I was so angry
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: at him, even my dad. I was like, how dare
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: you die on me like this?
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Like.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Like that's, it wasn't supposed to happen. Like none of
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: it was supposed to happen like that. Like I was
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: under the impression he was invincible, first of all. And
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: he was just so young and he was just such a,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: you know, just such a lively, such a bright light.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: So it just, it didn't seem possible. And even to
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: people in my hometown, they were in disbelief when he died.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Like it was like, because his life force was so big.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: that like people were in denial. It's like, that's impossible.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: There's no way he could be dead. Like, and I
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: was like, no, he, he really is. And it was a,
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: a tough thing to really come to terms with. But, um,
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: with any great reaction or any like chemical reaction, there
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: is a catalyst. Um, and I have to say everything,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: the reason I'm here and the reason I'm anywhere right
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: now is because of that conversation. It was, uh, you know,
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: You have a product and a reactant, and then there's
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: a catalyst. And that conversation is what catalyzed my whole career.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That Write a Good Song for Me, Stephen, was
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: like a lifetime's worth of jet fuel for me to
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: charge across the galaxy and do everything I could to
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: try and keep him alive. To try and just tell
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: the world about him.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Carry out his wish.
• 36:12
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: And what I found out is like carrying out his
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: wish and keeping him alive was keeping so many other
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: people that other folks have lost, other humans have lost alive.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: He was resurrecting other people at the same time. And
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: these people were coming to shows with this, um, with
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: his bounty of love that had no place to go.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: And that's what grief is essentially. And, uh, and I
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: gave them, you know, you know, these songs have given
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: them a home for at least maybe three and a
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: half or four minutes. And, uh, and that's been, um,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: that's really been the charge of all of this. That's been, um,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: the mission statement is, um, you know, at the very
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: beginning was just keep dad alive, keep him alive at
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: all costs. And, you know, like kind of a psychotic
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: denial for the first couple of years that he was
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: even gone. I was like, no, he's, he's still around.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: And I, and a lot of times I felt them
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: on my shoulders, like a little kid. It was really weird.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: It was like this weird reversal of roles. And, uh, Well,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: now that he's free, he kind of could do as
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: he wants, you know? He could be on your shoulders. Yeah,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: he would show up like that.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: And the reason why I play this song, Stand By Me,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: is just literally two weeks after he died, I was
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: scheduled to play this songwriter festival in Deadwood, South Dakota.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: And it's in the Black Hills, and it's a very
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: spiritually charged area, just in general.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure it is.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: And the guy that runs it says, you don't have
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: to play any music. I know you're in a bad,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: bad spot. I hadn't slept in a week. And, and, uh,
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: he's like, just come here and, you know, see what happens.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: You know, just be around people like there's nothing but
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: love for you here. And, um, we, we know you've
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: gone through it. And, and at the end of the festival,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: they asked, you know, all the writers and stuff there. Um,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: if you wanted to play a cover, what's your favorite
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: cover that you love? And they did this big finale. Um,
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: I'd been, for some reason, for about a year prior
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: to my dad's death, I'd been singing this song, Stand
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: By Me, in my living room, the exact way I
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: play it now.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: It just popped in your head to come, it just
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: kind of came into you?
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and, like, for some reason I was... That song
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: has haunted me my whole life because of the movie
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: Stand By Me. Oh, for sure.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a big part of a lot of people's...
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: That movie was huge in people's lives for so many
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: little moments.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, I very much saw myself in the kid
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: on the left. Gordy Feldman? The Gordy LaChance. No.
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: What was his name? Will Wheaton. Like, the writer. The
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: writer that was trying to find a voice. The nerdy
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: little writer kid on the left.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: And that song, like, was... threaded so brilliantly throughout that
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: film and it's obviously the title but um because of
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: that movie which is also a Stephen King story that
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: movie is based off a Stephen King novella called The
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Body so you know it was obviously a very haunting
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: and dark theme but you know that song really haunted
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: me because of that movie and um I just started
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: playing it I was like trying to I don't know
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: kind of deconstruct it try to process it in a
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: different way and um, when my dad died, fast forward
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: to Deadwood, all I could play was Stand By Me.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: And, um, I started playing it and I'd really never
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: played it for anybody like that. And the whole place
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: like just went crazy. Like, and at that point I
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: was not an artist. I, I just quit my job
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: as a scientist. I've been a published writer for maybe
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: two years at that point, just trying to get other
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: artists to sing my songs. And I never really saw
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: myself as an artist, even though my dad did. He
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: would always be like, why don't you just sing these songs?
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: You sound great singing them. But I would always argue
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: with him, like, no, I don't do that. I write them.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Someone else sings them. But when I went up there
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: to sing Stand By Me, Um, I swear to God,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: he was like on my shoulders, like a little kid.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: And I got so addicted to that feeling again. Um, like,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: cause he, he, I mean, he was there, he showed
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: up and I, I truly believe he showed up at
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Bridgestone at the CMAs. Like he, he did. He showed
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: up that night.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: And, uh, Oh, I bet he was so proud of you.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like he's proud of you?
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, I think so.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: He was, he was so proud of me before he died,
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: before any of this happened. And, um, I think, yeah,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: he would be very proud. I've been trying to make
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: him proud my whole life.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: What did he say? Write a song for me or
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: make us? What did he say?
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm fucking leaking over here. No, man, I leak
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: all the time.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, I listen to stuff that makes me cry
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: all the time because I think I'm just full of
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: tears and I got to get these bitches out, even though.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: I'm dehydrated half the time. So I'm like, I don't
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: even know what's going on.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Here, dude. It's good for you. Like when my dad died,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: I swear all I did was cry for two years.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Like it's all I did. And lately, if you have,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: if you can find the tears, find them. Like right now,
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: I can't find them.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, even though I get emotional, don't get me wrong, but. Yeah.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you have tears and sometimes you don't. It's like
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: almost like seasons, you know, it's almost like an ocean.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it comes up on the shore and sometimes it's
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: out to sea, you know, even though it's, you know,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: it lives, right?
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: So it's like, um, and especially I think people that
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: have had like a lot of things in their life
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: that have happened that haven't been processed. Um, you know,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: it takes a long time. And I think I've gotten
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: grateful in my life over, over, over time where there,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: if I find something that helps me process, I'll sit
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: there and process it. My brother says a lot of
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: times he's like, yeah, getting rid of grief and like,
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: like trauma, like that old stuff. And people use trauma
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: as a buzzword, but getting rid of grief and stuff
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: from the past, he's like, it's like taking panties out
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: of a bathtub one at a time. He's like, you know,
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: it just, it takes a long time and it's slow
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: and it's just kind of arduous work. But you just
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: be grateful that it can kind of happen over time.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: He said, make a good song for me.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Write a good song for me. Write a good song
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: for me. Yeah, because he knew that's what I was,
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: that's all I could think about. That's the baton, man.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: That's the baton. Yeah, he used to come to my,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: like all my shows, and when I say shows, like playing...
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: for seven people at writer's round. Or like, and he
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: came to the Bluebird Cafe. I remember like, you remember
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: when they had those giant phones that were like the
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: size of laptops?
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Oh, those T-Mobile sidekicks? Yeah, baby, them bitches was beautiful.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he had one of those bad boys, and he
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: would just hold it up and record the whole show.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: It used to drive me crazy.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, dude, there's nothing crazier than watching a boomer kind
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: of record something, or even just somebody from a generation above.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: We went to the UFC fight the other day, and
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: some guy was recorded every single fight. He had a
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: front row seat, and he was recording, and there was
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: a TV right next to him playing the fight. So
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you can just go home and watch Like,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: I just didn't understand what was going on.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: But the fact that he was there and that he
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: cared so much about it and that he loved watching
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: you do it.
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: There was this one song that's on the record called
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: I'm a Song.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: And he watched me play that for the first time
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: at Bluebird Cafe. I had just written it like that week.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Right over here? Yeah.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: Oh, cool.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Bluebird Cafe. And he had his gigantic phone. I'll never forget.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: And I was like, Dad, please put your phone down.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: But he recorded that whole song. And then he called
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: me like a week later, kept talking about that song.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: And about a month before he died, it was Father's
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Day weekend, I came up to see him. And we
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: went to a tractor pull, and then we went home
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: and watched some fights. And he goes, hey, Steven, you
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: know that song you played at the Bluebird like a
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: month ago? It's called I'm a Song. And I was like, well,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: how do you even know that? Because I was in
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: that point of writing songs. you know, 200 songs a year.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: I was writing, you know, 10 songs a week. So
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: like a month ago, like that I'm a song was
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: like 50 songs ago. So I was like, oh yeah, yeah,
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: I know that. And he's like, yeah, you played at
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: the Bluebird Cafe. And he's like, that's my favorite song.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, thank you, dad. And you're like,
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: I thought he meant like, it's my favorite song, his
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: favorite song of mine. And he was like, no, you
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: listen to me. That's my favorite song ever.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: And, uh, and I was like, how are you even
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: listening to it? He'd been listening to me play it
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: on the Bluebird at the Bluebird on his gigantic T-Mobile, T-Mobile,
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: whatever that thing is. And, uh, and, and that's how
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: he was, he was, he was actually my first fan. And, um,
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: he was the, you know, he, he, he would breathe
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: so much life into me. He, he believed in me
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: so much more than I ever believed in myself. And, uh,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: And I remember him saying, you should sing that song.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: And when he died, I sang it at his funeral.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: And it was one of the hardest songs I've ever sang.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: But in that moment, like that was, that was when,
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: you know, I knew things were about to change. And,
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: but yeah, and that song has helped so many people.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: And it's, I don't know, it's been a bit of
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: a thesis statement for me. And So when he said
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: write a good song for me, he knew I had
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: already written one, at least in his eyes, because it
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: was his favorite song ever. So he knew, at least
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: he had proof on his phone that I was capable
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: of writing something great. And I guess his last charge
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: was to please keep going and don't stop.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: It's got to feel good for him to be, like
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: even in a moment, like, I mean, that's crazy to
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: say this. What am I talking about? But in a
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: moment of leaving the earth to know that you have
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: a son or someone who can, who, you know, you've
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: created that's capable. You know, you have a child that
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: you believe is capable. I wonder if, you know what
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: I'm saying? Or something like that? No. Yeah.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: And my other siblings are also very capable. He's very
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: proud of all of us equally. But I think he
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: knew something about me was different very young. I was
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: a very quiet. kid a very nerdy kid i was
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: i had his name and his eyes but you know
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: outside of that we were so different so he he
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: i think he just knew i was gonna do something
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: different he.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Just he's probably intrigued i bet.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah and i like picked up guitar and taught myself
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: and he was like just always mesmerized by like my
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: musical ability because it seemed like magic to him because
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: it was it was god given it like i nobody
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: taught me how to do.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: This really Oh, you just picked it up and started playing?
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for the most part. Yeah, I learned some tablature. But,
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: you know, I sucked real bad then.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: This is you right here?
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was probably like a week after I got
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: my first guitar. If that even made a couple days.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: Let me see some of this.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: I think we're watching Irving's family.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's Lithium.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Who is that? Is that your dad now?
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: No, that's just some random old dude. And this is
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: after my dad had passed away. Like none of this stuff,
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: like on my whole music, I didn't have any music
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: out when he was alive.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay. So they're just packaging this all up.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is all like old VHS footage from when
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: I was a kid. That's me getting my first guitar
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: for my 16th birthday, even though I look like I'm 12.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Look how hot, look, go back. Look, hold on. Yeah,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: hold on. Right. A little more. Right there. Look how happy.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: You can see, though, how happy and cool.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: You can see for a second. See if you can
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: catch his face a second earlier, maybe a second later.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: It was pure joy. Right there. You can just see
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: how happy he is, you know?
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: That's cool, dude.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm going to be cool now. Oh, it's
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: so fun, dude.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I might actually have, you know. I might actually
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: be able to talk to a girl now.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, dude. Yeah, at least if you walk up with
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: a guitar, at least you're rocking this idea. At least
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: they'll be like, hey, what do you do? You know
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying? At least you have some sort of semblance.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: Instead of hiding, putting hair in your eyes and hiding
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: behind it.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Pretty much, that's what I did. I said nothing to nobody.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, dude, that was most of my childhood when I
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: was growing up. I was thinking about what are the
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: responsibilities of a son? People don't think about that a lot.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: I think about what do my parents owe me a
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: lot as a kid, or I have probably. My parents
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: didn't do this, or my parents didn't do that. That's been...
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: you know, or some things didn't happen and should have happened.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: That's fair. But when I start to harp on the
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: other stuff and it gets into this, like, oh, woe
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: is me or pity me type of thing, you know,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: that can be kind of a unsafe area to go into. Um,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: but the two can be easily connected, like things that yes,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: a parent should do these things or those things should
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: be a child's life should include these things and they
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: don't happen. And then, well, a parent, they don't owe
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: you these things, but attaching those together. Um, but I
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: never think about like, what is it? What are my
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: responsibilities as a son? You know, Or as a child,
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying? You don't think that. Because
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: at a certain point, you do have some responsibility in
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: it yourself, you know? Yeah.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've had a lot of thought about that. And,
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: you know, I grew up thinking the same thing as you.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Like maybe, you know, things should have been different. But
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: at the same time, I tend to think about my
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: parents as children because they had me as children. They
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: were like, it was a shotgun wedding. My mama was
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: six months pregnant. They were teenagers having babies. And, uh,
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: so I also think about them like, oh my gosh,
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: like I have a lot of sympathy for them as
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: I was older. But, you know, growing up, I had,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: you know, anger and resentment towards certain things that I
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: did not understand. Um, but I've kind of tried to, um,
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: you know, understand that, you know, it's, it's very like, um, biological, um,
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: about like kind of how fathers and sons are just
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: children and their parents. Um, in the, in the, in
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: the beginning of your, your, your father is like superhuman
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: or he's a superhero. Um, like humanize, demonize and idolize
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: is kind of how I put it down. So in
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: the beginning you idolize your father. Um, And you idolize
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: everything they do. I remember idolizing my father, wanting to
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: be a boxer just like him, wanting to do so
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: many things like him. And I would hide in his
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: shadow and I idolized him my whole childhood. And then
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: once I got into my teen years, that's when that
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: separation starts to begin. And you start to demonize your parents.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: And you go through this whole demonization of your father
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: or your parents. And it's actually very biological. This is how, like,
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: you know genetic diversity was spread because we're a tribal
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: species so like the young boy new young man in
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: his reproductive years would start to demonize the parents and
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: get away from the tribe and go join another tribe
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: so we can create procreate so we can procreate and
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: create genetic diversity.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: Right because if he procreates too close to his own
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: tribe you also risk like uh Yeah, inbreeding. Yeah, like
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: the guy that taught me how to drive.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: And I'm not saying no shade, Brandon. I think he
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: was bred properly. It was just, you know, God put
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: some odd paints in his palate.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: We love you, Brandon.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we do love you. And actually, he passed away
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: a few years ago, and we do love you. He's
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: a special guy.
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: Oh, man.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, Brandon. But yeah, and then as, you know,
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: I think eventually you come back home. There's always like
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: this prodigal son kind of moment, and that's where you
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: humanize your father.
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: Because that's what happened with me. You start off as
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: a kid idolizing it. You get to teenage years, those
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: years that he got me that guitar. I was probably
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: going to start demonizing him soon. He wanted you.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: To at least have a backbeat for it.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Put all those angsty lyrics in there.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: Put that anger to lyrics.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, at least make it a bop.
• 52:40
  Speaker 6: That's hilarious.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: And then I remember when I was 25, I was
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: sitting on the porch with my dad, and I just remembered,
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: I was like, You're just a dude.
• 52:49
  Speaker 6: Oh, yeah.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: And that's when the humanization hit. And I was like,
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: you're just another dude doing the best you can. And
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: I could see it in his eyes. And we were
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: just kind of like we were, you know, the father
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: and son dynamic was still there. But he was now
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: a friend and something bigger than a father.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: He's another human, like you're saying.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: He's just another human.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: And that's a tough moment. It's an interesting moment, too,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: to look at because. it's almost, it almost breaks down
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: the wars you were fighting or the whatever, you know,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: it breaks down like a lot.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: It breaks down everything.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Right, it breaks down the pedestal you held this person
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: on in a way, in a way, some of it,
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: but it also breaks down if you've been demonizing it, like, well,
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: who am I fighting? I'm not fighting against, you know,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: the 20, the 32 year old dad, the guy that
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: I knew who like walked by me and didn't glance
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: or whatever your thoughts are, whatever your, whatever like you're envisioning.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: that's not there anymore, you know? And it's like, then what,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: then this whole like baton that I'm still carrying of anger,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: it's not even real. So what's really happening here with me?
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: And that's like a moment you kind of have to
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: look at yourself as well. And that's kind of painful. Yeah.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: It was, it's very much a self-reflective moment and you
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: kind of start to see kind of like, man, I
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: was a selfish little shit or I was, you know,
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: maybe you were justified in certain areas, but, or, Yeah,
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, they're just another human
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: doing the best they can, just like you.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: And who am I going to be now? That's the thing, too.
• 54:14
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: And sometimes I go back and I put on my old, my,
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: sometimes I go back and I'm the same person. But
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: more often than not, these days, I do a decent
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: job of like, well, let me be the leader. Instead
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: of saying, you should have led me or you should,
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: let me, let me grow up. It's like, how many
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: times do, am I going to fucking miss the grow
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: up bus, you know? Like, I'm on it. but still
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: sometimes I'll be there at the stop in the morning
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: and I'll be like nah I'm gonna let that bitch
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: go today you know what I'm saying I ain't getting
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: on that bitch today so some of that's interesting and
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: it's interesting to look at and you're still just a
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: human looking at it and trying to figure it out yeah.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: Well it's I think all part of the journey and
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: like it all it's rooted in something very old like
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: I always thought like that teen angst thing was like
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: something created in the 90s or something it's like no
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: this is pre-biblical this is this is something that's been
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: going on for a long time. If you study primates
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: enough and you, you, uh, you can really kind of
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: see a lot of, you can learn a lot about
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: humans by studying primates. Cause they're also, you know, we're
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: technically primates too. Yeah.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: There's rumors.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: There's rumors. Yeah. I mean, we're all part of the
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: animal kingdom, kingdom animalia, and we are, um, of the, uh,
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: you know, we're technically of the greater apes.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: What do you think happened? Do you think, Um, do
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: you think we, what do you think there about evolution?
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Cause it's so tricky, you know, it's so like, cause
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: we're the only people that are out here. It feels
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: like suffering like this sometimes.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Can I take a piss and get back to this question?
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: Cause this is going to, this has got an answer.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Let's take a break and piss man. With the
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: new year upon us. Sometimes you got to think about
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: your new moves. How are you going to do things different?
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: Especially if you're running an online business or considering it.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: whether it's dropping new stuff or looking over how you
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: did and strategizing from there, or just figuring out why
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: the heck those pocket t-shirts sold out. Shopify is like
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: your co-founder that doesn't ask for a cut, helps you plan,
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: keeps the whole situation rolling smooth, and lets you keep
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: building your empire without pulling your hair out over spreadsheets.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: Shopify makes it easy. That's why we use them. It's
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: just less chaos, more, hey, I can actually do this.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: You don't need to be a coder or a designer.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: Shopify's got templates galore. Pick what fits your vibe. Make
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: your shop look smart.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: No sweat.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: Whether you've got an idea rattling around or you're really
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: just about to launch your own brand, there's never been
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: an easier way to do it. Check out Shopify.com slash
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: Theo and see just how simple it is to get
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: your thing out there. Let's see what you can build
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: with Shopify riding shotgun. Is pornography causing a problem in
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: your life? Do you find yourself watching porno for longer
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: periods of time and having trouble stopping? Is porn affecting
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: your relationship or dating life? Well, you're certainly not alone.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: Watching pornography has become so commonplace today and oftentimes men
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: use porn to numb the pain of loneliness, boredom, anxiety,
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: and depression. Shame and stigma prevent men from talking about
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: these issues and getting help for them. I want to
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: introduce you to my friend Steve. Steve is the founder
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: of Valor Recovery, a program to help men overcome porn
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: abuse and sexual compulsivity. Steve is a long-term sexual recovery
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: member and has personally overcame the emotional and spiritual despair
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: of abusing pornography and has dedicated his life to empowering
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: men to do the same. Steve is an amazing person
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: and he is a close friend of mine. I mean that.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: Valor Recovery helps men to develop the tools necessary to
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: have a healthier sex life. Their coaches are in long-term
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: recovery and will be your partner, mentor, and spiritual guide
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: to transcend these problematic behaviors. To learn more about Valor Recovery,
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: please visit them at www.valorrecoverycoaching.com or email them at admin
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: at valorrecoverycoaching.com. Thank you. There you go, brother. Popping into
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: that Celsius, brother. I'll have a little with you.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: Let's do it. There you go.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: Stephen Wilson Jr.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Right there.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember I came to, and we just took
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: a bathroom break, and Stephen put on a nice sweater.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I did.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: It's a.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: It's nice. It looks like my grandma's curtains. Oh, yeah, dude.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: My grandmother, my grandfather worked at a factory in their town.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: It was a small town called Wyoming, Illinois. It was
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: real small. But it was nice when we went there
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: because just the world kind of made sense there a
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: little more. It was like a safe place to be.
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: They had a park right across the street. And they
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: had a garden where like most people had gardens where
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: they grew like strawberries and tomatoes. Everybody had tomato plants,
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: cherry tomato plants. And the summers, the roads would bubble
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: in the summer from the tar. And so it was
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: like kind of crazy because every now and then you'd somehow,
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: you'd be an idiot at least once a year. And
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: you would run across to the park, but you would
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: not have your shoes on and you would hit that road.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: And you would literally, you would have what we called
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: NAACP fees. You know, and I don't know if that's
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: a racially charged term or not. I don't think it is.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: I think it's safe. But yeah, you would get, you
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: would just, and, but the crazy part is once you
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: got the NAACP, you'd be faster at the park. And
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: that was the craziest part too. Yeah.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: We got that extra soul.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: That's what it was.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: You're like, you got something to grip now.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, you went home. My grandmother knew.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: Bio souls.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You were locked in.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: You got a free pair of Nikes.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you did, bro. Um, but there was so many
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: fun things just about being in like a small Midwestern community.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: The safety of it, the bike riding, the like, um,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: baseball cards.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: Dude, we would go to this place.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: Baseball cards, man. They had a dime store.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: The smell of them. The shitty chewing gum in the pack.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: That was so stale.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: It was so gross.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: You'd eat it anyway. I'd chew it every time.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: I'd be like, every time. I don't care how bad
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it would just disintegrate.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Somebody would like break off and like, like you could.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: You could open a box with it.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you could, dude. And every card was Mark Grace,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: I felt like. Every card was Mark Grace or Sean
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: Dunstan or Chris Sabo.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: Wade Boggs.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: Sabo. Gosh, man, you're dropping heat.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Well, dude, I mean, your song 1994 was like, it's
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: just one of the best pieces of nostalgia. Like, I remember, yeah.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: I remember like... When I was a kid, my mom
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: had this rug in her room, and it was like a...
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: I think it was a cow. I don't know where
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: she got it from or something, but it was kind
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: of like a prized possession. It was just like a
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: cow skin rug. It could have been a damn Dalmatian
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: or something.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: It looked like it could have been a big Dalmatian.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: It could have been a Dalmatian rug. It could have
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: been a Great Dane, and we got swindled. But anyway,
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: she said it was a cow. And I would lay there...
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: And I would like put my face right and I
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: would inhale it. And like, cause I didn't get to
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: spend a lot of time with my mom, but sometimes
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: at night, like she would put on hand cream or something.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: And that was like a big thing. Um, when I
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: was a kid, hand cream came out for women. And
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: so women were always just put, I mean, God, I'd
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: be like, mom, do you love me? And she'd be like, well,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: hold on. Let me put this hand cream on, you know,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: it was, yeah, it was just, Every woman at the
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: time had to have hand cream. They couldn't even cook
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: anymore because they couldn't open the cupboards because they would
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: slip out of their hands. I think women were just
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: looking for an excuse to get out of the kitchen.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: I can't pick up a pot. I'll drop it. I
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: have too much hand cream.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: Everything's cast iron back then.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: It was like, we can't. We can't afford to lose
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: any of this. But I would lay in there and
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: I would put my face on the carpet, like on
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: the rug. and I would inhale that smell of like leather. And, uh,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: and I would just kind of pretend that like I
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: lived in like a different world or that, like, like
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: we didn't have a dad around. So I don't know
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: if I'd pretend like there was like this manly energy
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: or just something, you know, it would kind of like
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: the smell would fuel my, uh, imagination, you know, and
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: I would just fantasize that like we lived on like
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: a Ponderosa or that we lived out in like new
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: mexico or texas or something you know or like i
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: don't know just that things were different but there was
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: something about when you were a kid or when you
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: were young and just putting your face on the carpet
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: it was like we used to do there wasn't you
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: weren't on your phone all the time and tv you
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: couldn't just have whatever you wanted so you you would
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: just do kind of crazy things.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: You look under the couch just to see what was
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: under there like nobody does that anymore.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: Like Yeah, that was exciting. That was almost like taking
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: a vacation or whatever. He's looking under there.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Get a flashlight, man. Blow your mind. There's a whole
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: other world under here. Like spiders. There's like, yes. You'd
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: be curious about your own world.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: You were curious about the things you had in your
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: own world. And you'd ask mama, what is this for?
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Why do we have this? There was just a lot
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: more like the storytelling you needed. It was like more prevalent,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: you know, and you had to tell a story. You
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: had to find some value. Like we created the stories.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: There wasn't like the internet where you could just go
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: and like, Oh, share this link. You know, we like,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: That's why the storytellers were so valuable then because it
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, you got to ask him. The only
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: way you're going to hear this is if you ask him,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: you know, or her, and they're going to tell you
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: about it. And, man, that was the best.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: What do you think? This may be out of place here, but,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: you know, because I feel like stand-up comedy and songwriting
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: is kind of our last kind of– that's our– that
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: is our storytelling now. Because, yeah, like you're right. People
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: don't pass down those stories generally anymore like they used to.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: I wonder if people are craving comedy and creating songwriting,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: craving songwriting in the, in the same way that, you know, we,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: we used to, because there maybe is a lack of that,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: those stories being passed down and that, because I feel like,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: you know, great comedians are great storytellers and great songwriters
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: are great storytellers. And, and that is something that our
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: culture is really not latching onto is telling stories, even
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: like a good joke. You know, it's hard to find somebody,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: you know, when I was growing up, there would always
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: be like somebody that would just have like a thousand
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: jokes and they weren't comedians. They weren't professional comedians and they,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: they weren't wanting to be. And, but they just had
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: a myriad of jokes, which are basically stories. Like they
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: would go, you know, they would infuse the jokes into
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: the stories. Like you wouldn't know if they were telling
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: the truth or not.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: And I was like, it's kind of a lost art
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: that you don't really see happening a lot anymore.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they had good storytelling. Well, storytelling was a big thing. Well,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: I think this is a more general way to look
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: at it. I think we've lost some creativity.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: And I think we've lost creativity in a lot of ways.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: I think it's one of the reasons why Los Angeles
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: has struggled in some ways because in Hollywood, Hollywood has
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: kind of struggled in some ways. And I say this
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: like in the sense that it started to feel super
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: uncreative out there, right? And I don't mean to speak
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: bad on that, but I just think it's a note
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: for that we've just, we're missing some creativity in the world.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: And I think the gatekeepers of creativity are starting to fall.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: So I think you are like, I think we're in
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: a desperate place for creativity and for authenticity where creativity,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: you feel like it's, there's something genuine about it. Maybe,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: It's a great question, man.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: I think authentic is, like you said, because it's really
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: hard to authenticate anything anymore. It's kind of hard to
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: find out what is real and what is not. I
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: tend to authenticate things with emotions and experience. If I
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: write a song, I kind of have to write it
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: from I can't write or perform anything that I cannot
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: authenticate from my own experiences and my own emotions.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: Did that make it tough for you to write songs
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: for other people?
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: I think that was a big challenge for me, trying
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: to get other people to see the authentication of my
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: emotions and finding that authenticity within themselves, perhaps. And that
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: alignment happening was a difficult challenge.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: And for you, say you write a song, somebody takes
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: it or somebody accepts it, you know, as a, and
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: they're going to cut it. Um, and then you're like,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: it doesn't really fit that person. That's a nightmare too,
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: that you don't think about. And then it's really tough.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: Did it ever happen to you? Yeah, it did.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: And I mean, and, but you know, I think a
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: lot of it is that they weren't able to authenticate
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: the emotion that I, that, that the music had come from,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: that it had originated from, and that's not their fault.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: And it's really not mine. It was just kind of
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: the nature of the business. Um, But yeah, I think,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: you know. It's tough. If I've had any advantages, the
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: only way I can create a song is I have
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: to authenticate it in something truly real. I can't do
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: fantasy music. I can't be like something. I can't be Superman.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: I can't be a Marvel character. I can't play something
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: I'm not.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: I think it's because there's too much of you already
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: who you are that I don't even think it would fit.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: You're just a rare foot.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: So it's like a rare foot. It's like, yeah, some feet,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: it can be like, oh, we'll put it in something.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: It'll look good here. It'll look good here. But I
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: think we're like, no, that's, that's.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was called different a lot as a kid.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: It was not a compliment most of the time. But
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: I have to say it has been an advantage of
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: as of late. And like being the weirdo finally helped out.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: And, uh, Oh, for sure. You know, for so long,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: you're Clark Kent and you're in there just, you know,
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: changing clothes in a phone booth or whatever. And people
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: like this guy is a pervert or whatever. And then
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: eventually you come out and think some things start to fit. Um,
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: I've heard you say, I've heard you say that songwriting
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: kind of was like a, uh, survival tool for you not.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: That's the right words no yeah it was like uh
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: it was my therapy especially in those first couple years
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: after my dad died like i i kind of uh
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: I used science and songwriting at the same time because
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of training in science. I went
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: and got a science degree. I worked.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: Would you go to Purdue?
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: No, I went to MTSU. Oh, you did? Yeah, and
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: I worked at Mars, the food company and R &
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: D for them as a food scientist. No way.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: Mars candies?
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: Research and development for them?
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: And y'all make Snickers, huh?
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: They do, but I actually worked in pet food for them,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: which is based out here in Nashville. the Nashville area
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: at least.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, God, you were snacking on that, huh?
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: Yep, that's me right there.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: Shit, I wouldn't even go to work if that's all
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: they had in the damn snack bowl.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: Yep, and they did. They had like buckets of Snickers.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: I put on like 30 pounds. Oh, I was talking
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: about pet food.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: I'm like, if I ate that much fat food, I'd
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: wear a damn helmet, too. That's insane.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: People did eat fat food there. I saw it. Would
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: some people try a little, get used to it? Yeah,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: I'd see some people do it. Sometimes you'd see some
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: high-level people do it, too. It's like, you don't need
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: to do this, dude.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, shit, that's just Cracker Jack Russell.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just trying to get down with us a
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: little bit.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes. Some people love animals so much they'll have a,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: you know, there's people that, even videos of people that
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: will snack with them and have those little treats.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't advise it from a microbiological perspective.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: Because I have a micro degree as well. I wouldn't
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: eat raw cat food, like wet cat food. I mean,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: it does go through like a cooking process.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: That shit makes my wiener soft, brother. I'll tell you
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: that out the gate.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: But I did see dudes eat it.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: Would you?
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like with a spoon, like wet cat food. Why?
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: I think it was a flex.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: It was a flex, yeah.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: Is there one type that's the good type? Take me
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: through some of that.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: No, it's all as far as like cat food to eat.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets you a little snack.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: No, I don't want to try none of it because
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: I knew what was in that. And I knew like
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: what was in like proteins and all that that goes
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: into those foods. And I understood all the kill steps
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: and stuff were there. But I also know that my
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: digestive tract is far different from a felines or canines
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: and We ain't made to eat what they're made to eat. So, yeah,
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: I didn't really, I did not partake. But, yeah, you'd
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: see a dude, like, take a big spoonful of cat
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: food and then, like, drive off in his Lamborghini because,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: you know, it was usually, like, a high-level person. Yes.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: It was a power move. It was impressive, though. I
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: was like, damn.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: Dude, I was just talking to my friend this morning
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: at breakfast about things that the powerful do. and why
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: they operate certain ways, because it's like, yeah, what can
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: I do? How weird or could this get? If you
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: have everything, if the basic, like, I need to make
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: money to survive, I need to feed my family, or
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: once you have, like, I have seven wives living in
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: different cities, I'm gonna live in a jet, or I
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: live in a, some people might be living on other
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: planets now that we don't even know.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: Got their own islands and stuff.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, at this point, yes, I'm having cat food, but
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: I want the greatest cat food ever. I want cat
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: food that cats can't even afford to eat.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and cats. And sometimes they pretend like they could
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: discern between. They're not going to like this. I was like,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: you're not a cat. That's for cats. He's basically stating
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: he's eaten so much of this food, he can now
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: discern between what will work and what will not. Oh,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: that's good.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's good, huh?
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's good. They're going to love this. The Himalayan
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: cats are going to love this.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: A tilapia aftertaste. What was a product that you guys
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: made while you were there? Do you remember one product
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: that kind of came through? Yeah, it's called Dentistix Fresh.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: It's still on the market. I see it out there.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: And it's for animals?
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's for dogs. It's basically a teeth-cleaning dental chew.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's pretty cool.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: Very digestible. There it is. That's my baby right there.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I've seen that before.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: That was one of my products that I launched from
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: start to finish. Wow. Yeah.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: It's cool.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: It's cool. It's cool to see it kind of out
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: there still doing its thing.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: At the end of a show, you hum some of
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: those out in the audience.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: I probably need to start chucking them out there. Like
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: take a bite out of them.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: I'll catch one. Catch one in my mouth.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: No, I would eat one of those if I had to,
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: but I wouldn't eat none of that cat food. That's fair.
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: And look, I love to hear that.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: That's mostly like flour. That's mostly wheat flour. It ain't
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: got the same ingredients.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: As cat food. did you ever pitch a product that
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: they didn't like? Are you allowed to pitch products?
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I did. I pitched a lot of products. Um,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: but at the end of the day, I was the
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: geeky scientist and they're like, you need to make what
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: you need to make. And they, they have a, a much,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: I think a greater understanding of what the market requires
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: than some of us geeky scientists do. I had my
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: own lab and I would, I would come up with
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: these new things and new designs and pitch them in my,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: my free time. And there was a lot of creativity
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: to it. And, uh, There's actually a lot more creativity
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: to analysis than you think, and there's a lot more
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: analysis to creativity than you think. I think the two
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: can work very well together. Back to what I was saying,
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: when my dad died, I was able to kind of
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: apply science and songwriting because I was so devastated, but
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: I was kind of able to metaphorically put a lab
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: coat on and go into researcher mode. And, um, and
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: that's kind of where the songs came from. I just
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: started like looking at my pain from another perspective, like
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: trying to look at it from the outside in as a,
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: an observer. And then just kind of documenting my findings
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: as I went, like I spent four years making this
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: record son of dad and, Like two or three of
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: those years were research years, just me documenting everything I
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: was going through. Wow. And keeping, you know, meticulous records
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: like scientists do. But I was channeling that into songs
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: instead of like, you know, a pet food product. But
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: I was still using the same methodology, like, because I
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: had to be true to it. Because that's the thing
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: about science. It's just a truth detection tool. It's not
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: an ideology or a paradigm. It's just an effective tool.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: If it's used correctly. It's like a metal detector.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Or a chainsaw. Even if you use it great,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: it can be great. But if you use it right,
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: it can be great. If you use it wrong, it
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: might cut your damn hand off. Like science created the
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: atomic bomb. It's also created cures for incurable diseases that
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: we thought. It's a beautiful thing. But at the end
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: of the day, it's just a tool for detecting truth.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: And I used it like that. Yeah. I would have
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: this question, and I'd have my observations, and then I'd
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: create a hypothesis, as you would say, which would basically
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: be a song, a song title, an idea. And I
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: would go out and test it in the world. I'd
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: play in front of seven people here, ten people there,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: seven people here, seven people there, and I would get
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: instant data. Feedback. Feedback, which is data that in the
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: scientific field we can spend six months before we– it
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: can be six months before you get your first result.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: from an experiment. So I was getting instant results. So
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: I love that part of it. You know?
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that instant feedback is, I mean, yeah,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: it helps, you know, what's going on. It's even like
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: working with the jokes, you know.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: And getting them out there.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: It's pretty fascinating how like the parts of your life,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: like to be a scientist, to have like a methodology,
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: to then use it to channel your emotions and look
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: at them. You look at your emotions, look at your life,
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: look at the path of things, you know, to put like,
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: to almost like take a template of, science and apply
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: it to something as emotional as music.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of joke around calling myself a song scientist,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: but that's essentially what it is. I mean, because, you know,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: user bias is like it can so easily contaminate your
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: results and contaminate your entire experiment and experience. And So
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: I really was trying to use user bias because I
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: was trying to authenticate something in one of my own
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: emotions and experiences, but also take user bias out of
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: it because at the end of the day, you've got
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: to find the truth. And just because you don't like
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: the results doesn't mean they're not true. And that's where
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: user bias gets in the way because you want the
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: results to be different. Maybe you really like this song,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: but you're not getting the results that you thought it
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: was going to get.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: You start adjusting your formula. And then before you know it,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: you got conclusive results, either conclusively, this is not the
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: truth or conclusively, this is the truth. And then you
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: run with the truth, whether it's good for you or
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: bad for you.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 3: And that's.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I was just looking at this right here. It
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: says user bias, uh, refers to cognitive tendencies that distort
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: how individuals perceive, interpret, or respond during research. What are
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: examples of user bias?
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: For example, um, You think that this is going to
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: work for whatever reason. You have a hunch that this
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: whatever thing is going to work. And you've now attached
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: an emotion to it because you almost need it to
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: work now. Now it's more about you than it is
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: about the truth. So when you go into an experiment,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: it doesn't need to work out for you. like your
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: feelings have to be completely separate from this if you're
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: doing true but if you're going to be a true
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: researcher and using the scientific method the proper way so
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: you know that's i guess when you get into a
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: song especially a song about your dad or a song
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: about loss it's easy to be like well it needs
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: to be like this it needs to say this or
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: it needs to say that because That's what's going to
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: make me feel good. But that's may not be the truth. Yeah.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: I think your songs don't really take me on like a,
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: they don't take me on a typical journey of like
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: a beginning, middle and end, I guess. And some of
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: them are different than others, of course. But yeah, I
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: guess sometimes you think of a song, especially if it's
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: a country song, I think of having like a beginning,
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: middle and end, almost like a journey. Whereas yours sometimes
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: sort of like take me on a ride down, a
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: ride past something or through something. And it's not as
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: much of like, you're giving me this story as much
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: as you are providing some things. And I'm the store.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: I'm remembering the story of mine that pertain, that associates
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: with it sometimes. Well, that's, I feel like my favorite,
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: like what the fuck do I know? But some of
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: that happens with your music. That's what I'm saying.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: Well, that's, uh, if, if there's any goal I've ever
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: had as a songwriter is to basically do that because I,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: I remember I heard this song called Don't Take the
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: Girl on a school bus when I was a kid.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: It made a mess out of me.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because everything, it's like, and this is, now he's
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: 20 years older and now it's the end of the time.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: But I was able, in the weirdest way, because my
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: mom was, you know, my mom and dad divorced when
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: I was really young and she was with some abusive
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: men and she lived in Tennessee when I was a
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: kid and I was always, I spent most of my
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: childhood very worried about her. Like, Really? Very worried about
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: her getting killed or hurt really badly.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: Why did she like abusive men, do you think?
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: I think probably a lot. Her childhood was very, very hard.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, so maybe something happened and then she related to it.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, she's a beautiful lady.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: What's her name? Kathy. Kathy Lynn.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: Kathy Lynn. There she is.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: And, you know, she was just a baby having a
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: baby and, you know, trying to. And my dad was,
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: you know, a great. A great man, but they were
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: also teenagers and they were kind of like forced to
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: wed because of religion. You know, like she was six
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: months pregnant when they got married with me. There's no
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: way they were going to have a child out of wedlock.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: That was not going to happen.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: Not cool.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: And then they end up having two more kids. And
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: before they know it, they're 22 years old and they
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: got three kids. And it's that crazy. And so, you know,
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: I have to, you know, give her a lot of,
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: you know, a lot of grace because of, you know,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: her life was very hard and she was very young.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: And I don't understand a lot of the, you know,
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: some of those choices she made, but I remember, you know,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: spending most of my childhood and, you know, in fear
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: of her, of getting that call that she was, she
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: was gone.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Is she, your mother still alive?
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, she is. Oh, beautiful. Yeah. And, um, she's had
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: a wild year and, um, she's, she's very much with us. And, um,
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: She's had a wild year? Yeah, she almost got killed
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: this year on an ATV accident. It's wild that you
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: brought that picture up. She literally had very much a
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: near-death experience. She spent two months in the ICU. Yeah,
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: it was... It's been a wild year for all of us,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: especially her.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: ATV deaths happen to so many people. Yeah, I don't—
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: People don't realize how popular it is.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: I don't want one of them damn things anywhere around me.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not saying we're getting you one this year.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: No, please don't.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: I'll sell it on eBay.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're not.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: Skip, go with that one. Yeah. That one can go
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: on to the next. In the United States, ATV-related deaths
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: typically range from 300 to 900 annually. Wow. but yeah, it's,
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know why we're even talking about this and
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I'm glad to know that she's doing well.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: When you guys were young, what kind of stuff was
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: she struggling with stuff or?
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: She had a lot of struggles and.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: Young age is so tough. Can you imagine that when
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: your mother, can you imagine like when I was 22,
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: I was just concerned if I had enough, you know,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: time in my day to jerk off without somebody bothering me.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: And here there were people feeding children.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: You're like, I mean, she had no business having children.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: But yeah, they had these, you know, they very much
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: had these children. And she was going through some really
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: tough stuff. And, you know, like my dad got custody
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: of us, which was kind of rare at the time.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: But I remember hearing that song and I was able
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: to put her in that song.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: Yanni's daddy.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: And it didn't make no sense that. you know, like,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: why is my mom in this song? She shouldn't be like,
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: it doesn't follow the storyline.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, but your head put her in there.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: But my head put her in there and I was
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: able to copy and paste all of my emotions into
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: that song. And three and a half minutes later, I
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: was a wreck. Like, like not because of the song,
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: but because of my mom being in the song.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, that's like, to me, that's what,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: the wizardry of songwriting is. Like, Craig Martin and Larry
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: Johnson wrote that song, not knowing that some southern Indiana
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: boy was going to be, like, you know, be balling
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: on a school bus with around a bunch of FFA kids.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a good look.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, I mean, that's really what... I mean,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: I would say that was the moment that I really
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: got bitten by, or, like, song bit, so to speak, because...
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: I realized that music was more than just beats and
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: sounds and making words rhyme. It was literally taking a, like,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: like taking someone's life and making it part of a
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: piece of art. And, and that's, and that's, that's really
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: what a great song does. And I think the real
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: great songs out there in a, Me, as a songwriter,
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: the only thing I've tried to pay forward was that.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: So when you said that, you're able to put yourself
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: in those songs. That's really all I've ever hoped to achieve.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: Not so much to just put myself in those songs.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: I want to put other people in those songs and
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: let them be the star of it, not me.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: And I feel like that's, if it's anything that's, what
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: how people respond to the music it's about them it's
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: it has nothing to do with me up there I'm
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: just a vessel.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah no I think and I think there's a lot
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: of guys that are trying to feel I think for
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: especially for a lot of young men it's been like
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of feeling and processing that that we've
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: missed somehow or we haven't found a way to do
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: it I think It's the same thing that I noticed
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: with some of Red Clay Stray's music. And it's different.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: You guys' stuff is totally different. But if you go
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: to their show, they're great. Their show, it's a lot
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: of men, probably kind of adult men, who are trying
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: to find ways to process stuff. That's what I believe anyway. Yeah.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: And it's, it's just, it's interesting to see that it's
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: interesting to see, like, where do we go to process
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: stuff and how do we do it? And, uh, yeah,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: I think your music does a lot of that for people. Yeah. And,
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: and that's why I was saying that, yeah, it would
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: be hard for you to write for somebody, which makes
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: it a little bit tougher to have a career in
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: some ways, because you don't have like, you're you and
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: you can write some songs and, but man, that would,
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: your stuff is so personal. It feels like to your brain.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: and perspective and attitude that it'd be hard for a
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: regular foot to fit into it.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: That was the, that was the challenge. You know, like there's, there's,
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: you know, this sounds so much like you, that was right.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: And you know, but at the.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: Same hurts at the time, cause you're like, well, fuck,
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to do this. But then in the
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: end it's like, Oh, well I'm the, I'm the instrument.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: And that just takes you out. And then that's a,
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: that's a, that's a gift that you are. because if
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: you'd have got found this other Avenue that was for songwriting,
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: and I know you've had some success in it, but
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: if you've found this other Avenue that was hugely successful,
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: then you may not have continued to, uh, nurture or
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: the energy may not have been on the seed. That
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: was you, you know, the sunlight might've not focused on you.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: To keep that. Honestly, if my dad was still alive,
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, none of this would have happened. I mean, really, um,
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: you know, I'd probably be just writing songs, trying to
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: get cuts and probably still, still failing at it.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: And, uh, Yeah, your dad would be selling merch for you.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: It'd be nice, huh?
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he might. He would still be there with his
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: giant phone, probably, recording every bit of it, proud as hell.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: Man, I was just thinking about my dad. So my
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: dad was very old when I was born, and so
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: I remember I was ashamed of my dad, so I
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: had a lot of shame about him. But I grew
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: up in a lot of fear, too, in our household.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: My sister was real sick, and so I was always
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: scared that she was going to pass away. And then
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: my dad was old. So he was in his 70s
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: when I got to know him, so I was always
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: afraid he was going to pass away. So it was
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: like this constant thing of like, you know, it just
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: felt like somebody was just going, dang, duh, you know?
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: So it made everything kind of dour, I think, or
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It made it like the perspective was dim.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: That's what it was. And my brother would mess with me.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: He'd come in the room, and he'd be like, dude,
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: dad's dead. And I'm like, what? He'd be like, go
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: in there, dude. Go in there right now. And my
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: dad would fall asleep all the time because he was
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: like 76 or 77. And those people like to sleep
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: a decent amount during the day. and I don't know
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: if he'd be asleep or he'd just be laying there
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: with his eyes closed you know what I'm saying a
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: lot of old people are like I'm awake I'm at
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: work you know I'm married you know they're not forgetting
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: the things that are important you know but I would
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: go up and I would have to go like and
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: he would be alive and I would be like fuck
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: you you're full of shit So then it got to
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: this weird part where my brother would come in the
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: room and he'd be like, dude, dad's dead. And I'm like, dude,
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: he better be dead when I go in there or
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: I'm going to beat your ass. So it became, and
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: it flipped this whole perspective of like what was normal
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: in the world. So my friends would be like, dude,
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: what do you mean he better be dead? Are you
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: going to fight your brother? And I'm like, no, he
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: does this all the time, dude. He's not freaking dead.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: You were like. I don't know, you were combating the
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: dark arts with other dark arts.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or my mom would be like, go spend time
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: with your dad because he's probably going to die soon.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: And you'd be like, all right, you know, and shit
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: like that. But she was just doing this to get
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: us out of the room so she could tidy up
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: or something, you know, some trick. But it was just
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: weird shit, you know. And it was true, too. He
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: probably was going to die soon. So I was like, well,
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: get in there and spend some time with him or
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: draw a picture of him. We probably have like 70
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: pictures of him we drew of crayons. But if she'd
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: like go in there and draw a picture of him,
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: you know, you're going to want it, you know. And
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: it's horrible pictures, you know. And sometimes he'd be drawn
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: like as a black guy just like, you know, just
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: like because it would seem more exciting or whatever.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: Were you quiet as a kid?
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think that I was. I think I
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: was like kind of curious. Yeah. And I like to
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: make excitement somehow. Like I like to create ambiance for things.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: But I think I was probably, I don't know. My
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: mom says she didn't tend to me that much because
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: it seemed like I was doing fine.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: So she didn't think I needed like a lot of
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: attention because she felt like I was doing okay, you know,
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: because we've had like some conversations about that stuff. But yeah,
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: I think that was a big regret I had was
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: that I had like a lot of shame about my
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: dad's age. And so I didn't even embrace him really
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: that much, you know, because I just I was ashamed
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: of it. Wow. But it's just life's just harrowing like that.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: You and I had like polar opposite dads. My dad
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: was like a baby and I was like a. I
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: guess I was kind of– I wouldn't say I was– yeah,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: it was– yeah, they were just kind of totally different
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: perspectives to think about. Like my dad was like a child,
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: like honestly like a big brother.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: In a lot of ways because he was only 18
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: years older than me.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, that's pretty normal.
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, I was like– There's normal brotherly stuff now.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: There's actually siblings out there that are like 15 years
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 2: older than their siblings, you know.
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I mean that– That had to be tough.
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: I find that people that are, that's why I asked,
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: you know, people that are spending, I know I spent
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: my whole childhood in a state of fear of loss,
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: fear of losing someone.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: Unlosable at that time.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: What would make that happen? It is such a, oh,
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: because your mom being gone?
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: Because my mom, yeah. I was like, losing her was
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: not like something I was willing to bear, but it
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: seemed like it was, inevitable and like something that was
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: like just around the corner too so like it made
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: me like retreat as a kid it made me like
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: really quiet and observe it like observe everything you gotta
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: make sure everything's okay yeah god yeah and keep my
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: mouth shut because like i didn't want to say something
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: or you know like you know.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: That could cost me her yeah it could cost me
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: her or um.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: You know, I didn't want to draw attention to it
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: or speak anything into existence about it. And I didn't
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: want anybody to know about it either. So it was
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: like my own little, you know, my own little thing.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: And my dad didn't know about a lot of her,
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: what she was going through with her other husbands. Like,
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: that was something that I knew about. Oh, you knew.
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: And that was... a tough secret to carry because, uh,
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: you know, it was, you know, he would have never,
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: he wouldn't have wanted me around that and, um, God
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: knows what he would have done to those dudes and, uh,
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: he probably would have killed them or something and, So
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: I was always worried. I was always trying to protect
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: my dad from himself, and I was trying to protect
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: my mom from herself. It made me grow up real quick,
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: and I bet your dad's situation probably made you grow
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: up quicker. Well, it makes you aware.
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. The worst thing to be as a
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: young kid in some ways is just so aware because
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: you're living on this different timeline. You're living on this
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: other thing.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: It's good to be oblivious in those years and really
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: ignorant to the pain and the magnitude of that is
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: the weight of loss as a kid. Like we, we
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: insulate and protect, we protect children from that.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: We don't even bring them to funerals because we don't
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: want them to see that. That's something my dad, I
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: got to say, I could give him a lot of
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: credit because I've been, I've seen people die from a
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: young age, from grandparents to family members. Like he would
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: bring me to funerals probably because he couldn't find a babysitter.
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: Like what's he going to do? Like get a babysitter
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: or have us wait in the car. He's like, no,
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: you're going to come. And look at this dead body.
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: You're going to see this dead person because one day
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: it could be me.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: My dad used to drop us off at funerals in
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: our town if there was– in order to get time
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: away from– he dropped me off at two funerals in
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: our town. I didn't know anybody yet. And he would
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: take us to leave us at Burger King for eight
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: hours like they were a babysitter. I'm like– and every
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: time we were like, Dad, they do not want us
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: there anymore. We ate like 11 French toast sticks that
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: people gave us.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: And they don't even have a play place. He enjoyed
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: the play place. And he's like, it's the wrong one.
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: Burger King doesn't have it, dude.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: They don't have it everywhere.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: No. So this lady named Miss Wanda, she was always
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: like the lady that would take care of us in there.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: And we would just drink those syrups when people left.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: But we'd be at the fucking Burger King for like
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: eight hours talking to people, me and my sisters. And
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: it would just be bizarre. But you'd end up in
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: bizarre shit like that, you know. My dad would take,
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: he'd be like, drive me over to the post office
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: because I was kind of tall when I was 10
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: or 11, maybe 12. So I'd drive him over there,
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: but I didn't have a driver's license or anything. And
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: there'd be no parking spots. He'd be like, we'll just
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: do a couple laps around the block while I'm in here.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: And I'd be like... And there was this huge cutlass,
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: this Delta 88. And so I was like, I can't
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: drive this bitch. And he didn't have power steering. Dude,
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: I would hit... And the car was so banged up.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: I fucking hit probably seven cars going around that block.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: Totaling cars with that thing. Oh, dude, just.
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: Hitting all kinds of shit because.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because those things are solid cars.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: And there was no mirrors around.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: There was no... Driving my house around.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: There was no mirrors for sure after I hit the street,
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: but there was no... cameras and nobody knew what had happened,
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: you know, and I would just be in there. And
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: if dad had to wait to buy stamps, I'd be
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: out there. I'd fucking hit 50 cars, dude. But dude,
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: it was just, you would be in crazy scenarios. Odd
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: environments put you in crazy scenarios that other people couldn't fathom.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: And then it would just kind of get your brain
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: to like a different place.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: So your brain was kind of operating in some wild territory. Um,
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: one of the things you said, yeah, yeah. I wonder
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: how many kids are quiet because there are They were
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: worried if they just taught, if they affect the world
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: in some way that it could alter it, that they could,
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: you know, because when you're a child, things are very
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: balanced in your head. Like I remember I would swallow
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: on both sides of my mouth. I would be careful
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: how I stepped. If I counted one, I had to
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: count one on the other side of my brain. I
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: always had like these two sides inside of me. And
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: I'm like one over here, one over here, like these
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: little things I had to do.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: And I did the same thing.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: Ticks, little ticks. And it was because I had to
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: keep things even. Everything had to be even. And so
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: I wonder how many times kids operate in this space
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: where it's like I just can't affect anything too much
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: because things as far as I recognize them are already
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: like kind of on a on a uncertain fulcrum, on
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: a one footed fulcrum. And it's going to get weird,
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 2: Now, I think you. You just hit the nail on
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: the head right there. It's interesting. At least with me. Yeah.
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: I think that was, I think you articulated it far
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: better than I did or could have. But yeah, you're
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: afraid to affect the world because you might change it
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: for the worse. So like I'm going to stay Switzerland
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: and keep my mouth shut.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: And I did that for most of my childhood.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 3: And then.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: But then a lot of the world happens inside of
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: you then. If it's not happening inside of you, a
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: lot of the conversations and stuff, they happen inside of you,
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: which is interesting. And I think it can be painful
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: and scary, but also kind of fascinating.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: It allows you to be by yourself a lot. And
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: it teaches you and trains you to be alone and
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: thrive in loneliness. And if there's anything, like with boxing, songwriting,
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: and I'm assuming comedy, There's a lot of loneliness to it.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: You got to be inside your own head a lot
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: in order to do it properly. It's not like you
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: just go up and play a baseball game and hit
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: a homer. And then it's this thing you got to
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: stay in all the time. It's not event-based. It's just
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: kind of this state of mentality.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: That's a good point, especially with boxing because boxing, most
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: of it is the trainings.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: The fights are very rare.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The fights are rare and short compared to the training.
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: So, uh, your father was a boxer. Yeah. How, how
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: did he get into it? Do you know how?
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: Um, well, he started, um, probably a year before I
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: was born. Um, he saw Muhammad Ali fight. Uh, Muhammad
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 2: Ali was like his hero, He's from Louisville, Kentucky, so
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: almost like a local dude too. Yeah, my dad just
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: idolized him. He just watched all his fights, loved everything
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: about him in and out of the ring. And I think, yeah,
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: he was just really inspired by Ali's story, and he
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: literally just wanted to start boxing again. Um, and I,
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: I think the movie Rocky probably just came out around
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: that time too. I bet that probably had something to
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: do with it.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: A lot of whites got caught up in that.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: And, um, but I think with the combination of Muhammad
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: Ali and Rocky Balboa, yeah. Um, my dad said, Hey,
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: I want to put on some gloves. And before he
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: knew it, he was, he was fighting. Um, and he
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: started on his own, just like literally fighting anybody, like
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: signing up for, tough man competitions, and then he ended
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: up finding this great gym up in Indianapolis and fighting
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: under this coach named Champ Chaney. That was his name.
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: Champ Chaney? Bring him up.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: Let's get a gander at him. I'd like to see
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: this man today. I can still smell the cigar smoke.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: That's him, dude. There you go, Champ. Oh, dude, I
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: haven't seen him in forever. Let him have it, Champ.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: That second picture right there, that's exactly how I remember.
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: He'd have that same sweater on every time I'd see him.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Police Athletic League. That was the power clubs we
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: would fight at. Like, we would open up for our
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: dad's fights. Like, when he got into, like, champs tutelage,
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: that's when he started, like, really doing well.
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: Because he didn't have any really good training. And very
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: much like how Apollo trained Rocky, Champ trained my dad.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: Got it. He, like, reformatted his whole style. He taught
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: him footwork. He taught him head movement. He taught him.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: All the things that he lacked fundamentally because my dad
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: was just a tough guy with a mean punch and
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: a heart of a lion.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: And he could just train, train, train. Loved to train.
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: He loved to train. He loved to work. And Champ
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: loved that about him, his work ethic. He'd show up
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: to Indianapolis. He'd spar anybody. I remember him getting up
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: in the morning and literally having to peel his eyes
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: open to see us because of just sparring, not from
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: a fight, just sparring those dudes in Champ's gym.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: Dude, my... Go ahead.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: You know, I was just going to say, I mean,
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: he had a lot of guys that didn't care for him,
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 2: and I remember, you know, him talking about that. Like,
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: he really had to fight for his spot at that gym.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: Your dad did?
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: He did.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: And what reasons would they have not to care about
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: him or care for him?
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, he just... I think Champ maybe
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: favored him because he really put in a lot of work.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: Got it.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: And he.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 2: I think Champ saw what he was going through. He
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: was bringing his kids to the gym and, you know, and...
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: he was very much out of sorts there culturally. And
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 2: he was, he was fighting an uphill battle and he
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: was in the wind was in his face and he
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: just still kept going forward. And, um, I feel like, um,
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: that's what champs saw in him. And so when we
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: started boxing as a kid, I mean, my first memories
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: are the sounds of these fights. Like I, that right there,
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: like I can smell that picture. Um, Like, I can
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: smell the room. It's cigar smoke and isopropyl alcohol with
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: menthol in it. And it's all this, and a lot
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: of sweat and leather. And the sound of, like, cops
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: under the table gambling, screaming red and blue. Because that's
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: where you'd be, like, red and blue. They'd have, like,
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: red headgear. This was an exhibition fight. Me and my
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 2: brother were fighting each other in this one. We didn't
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: have an opponent, so they'd just have us fight each other.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: So that was one of the fights we opened up
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: for my dad.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: Well, they gave both of y'all a trophy too, which
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: is fucking sure.
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like a participation trophy because it's an
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: exhibition fight.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: But if you both get one, yeah, I could see that.
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: Just tell them both are the winner.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: There's exhibition fights and then there's competition. These were exhibitions.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: So in an exhibition fight, you both get a trophy.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: You're just exhibiting the sport of boxing. not really it's
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: not going nothing's going on your amateur record or anything
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: like that but then we ended up fighting other kids
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 2: and when they could find a boy our size to
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: fight we'd fight him um and so we would open
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: up like the first two or three fights on the
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: card would be kid fights oh that's fun so i've
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 2: i joke around i've been an opener for a long
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 2: time and uh But, yeah, I really haven't.
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: There's nothing funnier than watching a kid smoke cigarettes or
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: fight another kid, a little kid.
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: I did both of those things. Hell, yeah.
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: There's something about that. I think they should have a
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: zoo where you get to watch people do unique shit.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: If they had a section where a couple kids are
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: sitting there smoking, like, don't have them smoke all day
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: because I know it's bad for them.
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's bad for them.
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: But they get two cigarettes a day each.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: And it's like.
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: At a certain time they smoke and you all get.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 2: To watch it. Like 15 minutes a day, you know,
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: come in and watch it.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: And you can stream it too. If you didn't want
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: to go in person, you could stream it. But you're
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: telling me some kids smoking it on my lunch break
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: at 12, 15 PM a day, uh, you know, Gary
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: or Robert or whatever is going to smoke.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: And if you find a little Gary, let me know.
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 2: Bubble wrap him, protect him. That's a, that's a precious,
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: that's a Gary breed right there. Oh, yeah. Gary, Indiana,
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: isn't it?
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: Gary, Indiana is a wild place.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: I've heard.
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: Um, But yeah, I would watch a kid. I would
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: love to watch a kid smoke, you know?
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: So, and that's, maybe that sounds very Russian. I mean,
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I've been online a lot.
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: No, I think smoking's a very American thing too.
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I just love, like, I don't know. I
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: love nostalgia too. That's something that I love, dude. I
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: remember the first, yeah, going to funeral. Like I just,
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: I love the first of everything because after the first
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: time of everything, everything lost a lot of luster for
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: me in life. I think a lot of times, and
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know why that is. And I don't mean
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: it like super negative. Like I'm not down in the
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: dumps or anything, but I just, it's the first, it's like,
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: there's something fascinating about the first time of everything.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 2: And nostalgia is a, it's a really effective tool as
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: far as, you know, making people go back to memories.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: Um, Because you get attached then. When you get in
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: your own memory, you're attached.
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like, yeah, there's just something that attaches
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: you there.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can use senses to, like as an
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: appendage to nostalgia, like a sense of smell, a sense
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: of sight or sound and touch, all that. And I
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: think if you kind of use those senses and appendage
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 2: them to nostalgia, a certain type of nostalgia, you can
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: unlock a memory within any human, like all humans. It
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to be your memory. You suddenly have a
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: key to so many memories and so many minds. And, yeah,
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: you open up these memories that people have had vaulted
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: for years. And when they come out, it's almost like
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: seeing that toy that you got for Christmas when you
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: were seven years old that you were so excited about.
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: But seeing it again for the first time when you're
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: in your 30s or 40s and you kind of relive
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: that excitement for at least a second. Like, oh, man,
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 2: I remember that feeling. I haven't seen that in 30 years.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 2: And when you can unleash that memory, it's such a
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 2: beautiful thing. You see it on people's eyes. You see
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 2: them traveling through time. And, yeah, it's amazing.
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the first time you hear a song
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: kind of that really touches you, you know? It's a
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: human thing. Why I got a new complaint. Who's singing
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: that song?
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 2: Nirvana, it's Heart Shaped Box.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: God, that song was fucking good.
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's incredible.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: I was staying home from school to listen to that song, dude.
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: And watch the video. I remember watching the video and
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: just being like, I remember Kurt rocking back and forth
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: in that chair. Just everything about it. That whole record
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: in utero was just life-changing for me. That was huge.
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 2: Scentless Apprentice. Oh, my God. Yeah, this is the video.
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: I do remember some of this now, dude. I've been
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: locked inside your heart shape. Oh, dude. When Soundgarden came up, bro.
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: Soundgarden changed my life.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: Stone Temple Pilots.
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: I actually learned how to play guitar from Soundgarden. Really?
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: If I could give anybody, like, who taught you how
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: to play guitar? Literally, if I could credit anybody, it
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 2: would be the band Soundgarden.
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: And I feel, is that Soundgarden?
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 2: No, that's Stone Temple Pilots. They were all so good.
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: What's a Soundgarden song?
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: There's so many. As far as hits, you've got Black
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 2: Hole Sun, Fell on Black Days, Blow Up the Outside World,
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: one of my favorites, Rusty Cage, Pretty News, The Day
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: I Tried to Live, Fourth of July is heavy as hell.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 2: I love Fourth of July. Lemo Wreck. Oh, that slaps.
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 2: Super heavy. Well, that's Fourth of July.
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: Blow Up the Outside. Dude.
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: One of the greatest rock and roll vocal performances ever
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: is Blow Up the Outside World. Listen to that Chris
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: Cornell vocal and just talk to me after. It is
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 2: like a clinic of rock and roll. Is it pretty good?
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: Put these on. Let's play it real quick. You're going
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: to play a couple songs for us today. What did
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: you think, Steven?
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it.
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: Come on.
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: I'm scared.
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: Let's listen to this together if we can.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 2: A lot of those high singers would lose you when
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 2: they go down like that. They kind of.
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all, I mean, just so enveloped. Like you just,
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: like you wanted to be in their world. Smashing pumpkins together.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of good, and I always, one
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: thing I've never liked, I don't like music where you
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: can't hear the words, right? Yeah. Sometimes the way they
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: do mix is something, it loses me. Yeah. If I
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: can't hear the words, that's the part that I need
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: the most, right?
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: Because I need to feel something, like the beat and
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: stuff helps, it's cool for me, but for me, I've
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: always been like, what are the words telling us, you know? Yeah,
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: you want to know the story. Yes, I want to
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: feel something from it.
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you. I mean, that's... I'm a word nerd,
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: so I'm assuming you are too.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, I love to write. That was my favorite thing.
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: I think one of my goals maybe in the next
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: couple of years would be to finally get a book done.
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: I've written a lot of stuff, and I've written probably
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: half of maybe two books, but I would like to
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: finally get it done. But once video became so popular,
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: it was just like, and once podcasting became busier, it
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: was hard to focus on that. Is there anything good
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: in the news right now that we want to check out? Dude,
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: I did, when you look up an article, Trevin, I
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: saw something about Facebook and did research and then they
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: canceled it after it started to find, uh, beliefs that
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: they didn't want. We were talking about that. Um, we're
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 1: talking about a few minutes ago about research. Yeah. What
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: kind of user bias?
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, about user bias.
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: On boxing, have you done any boxing? No, I've never
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: done it. I go to a lot of MMA. I
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: go to a lot of MMA stuff. I love it.
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 7: You know what?
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind getting into something more. The past year
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: has been tough for me. I didn't invest in a lot.
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: The past couple years were touring. I kind of should
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: have invested more of having a trainer with me on
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 1: the road or things like that. I kind of took
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: some of that for granted. And I think in the
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: future that I'll do it differently. But this year I'd
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: like to get more into focusing more on my health
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that. I've really burned myself out pretty
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: good Uh, but I used to take, um, MMA classes
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: and I have a feeling that I'll get back into it.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: I've also had traveled. I was moving a lot too,
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: but now I'm going to be here more. And so
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: I need to put some roots more in some places
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: like that. Um, so it's like, I'll be able to
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: have more of a system, like a pattern. And so
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: it's been tough for me.
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 2: To have that. It's so hard to find that. I mean, I,
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: I box a lot here in town or a lot. I,
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: when I'm in town, I try to as much as
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: I can, but it's, It's helped me so much just
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 2: try to, even if it's two days a week. I
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 2: only brought it up. I went to the UFC Performance
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 2: Institute in Las Vegas. Oh, that's what I heard.
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 4: Last week.
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 2: Because we played in Vegas last week and they invited
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 2: me in. It was so cool.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, were you at the fights?
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: No, it was after the fights. But I saw Sean
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 2: Strickland there.
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, you did?
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, dude, he's a really amazing guy. He's an interesting guy.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 2: Incredible, dude.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: He's a deep soul.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 2: He is a deep soul. And just such a nice guy.
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 2: Everybody there was so nice. They're so great.
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: Did you get to work out there or train there
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: at all? I did, yeah.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I did. I trained with Brandon Jenkins there. You did?
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: Dude, bring up Brandon Jenkins.
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 2: I went to, I try to, I didn't. Yeah, Forrest
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 2: Griffin basically gave me the tour and like he met
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: me there and I was like, holy hell. There he is.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: Nice, dude.
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he put some work on me. That's awesome. But
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: I was really out of shape. But it was cool.
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: I got to learn some new things. Like, you know,
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 2: because I only train with boxing guys, and he's an
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: MMA guy. So, like, there was a lot of different angles,
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: a lot of new things I had to learn and
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: take it, you know, kind of slow and kind of
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: start from scratch. It was humbling. And I was, like,
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 2: four weeks on the road and very, like, four weeks
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 2: having not trained is too much time off to, like,
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 2: Go back, I felt like a total piece of crap.
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 2: I looked real bad and I felt like I looked
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: real bad.
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: That's a tough thing as you get older too. It's
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: like you got to catch me. Give me a couple
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: days to prepare for anything. I can do it. But
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: do not catch me. If I've had four or five
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: Diet Cokes and you want me to box or whatever. Bitch,
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: I'm staying in the car. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: Way too much aspartame. Yeah, that's what it is, dude.
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: It's like I look like a damn teddy bear or something,
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: you know? Because also my body style, my God-given body
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: style is I'm built kind of like a gingerbread cookie
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: a little bit, you know? Like I'm sturdy. Bring up
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: a good G bread on me, daddy. It's seasonal anyway.
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 2: I bet you can throw.
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 7: You know what?
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: I can survive, dude. I'll do okay. Give me a
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: couple weeks of– that's how I'm built right there. Now, sturdy.
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 1: I got a sturdy base on me. Do your legs
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: look like that? Bow-legged like that? No, this one had
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: a bad... This one might have been in a bad oven, but.
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: I got a little bit more frosting on me than
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: that one, but... Yes, anyway. Maybe the one... They don't
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: really make a perfect cookie.
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: Dude, but.
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: Do you know what would be interesting? What if we made...
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: cookies of like people that have been on this show
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: and we sold it was like a fun like we
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: could do part of it as like a fundraiser or
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 1: something for moms or something um we eat each other's
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: cookies and you just get a batch of them or
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: something yeah you can get a batch of the steven
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 1: wilson's like they can bite my head off i love
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: that if you're angry at your husband he just gets
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: you a batch of them steven wilson's and chew his
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: head off um so that's pretty crazy so brandon jing
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: has met you out there And Forrest Griffin met you
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: out there?
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they gave me a tour of the whole facility. Oh,
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: it's cool, huh? Oh, man, it was like I was
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 2: a kid at a candy shop.
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 1: Did they take you through, like, not just the gym part,
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: but also the UFC building and stuff?
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got to go into, like, the lunchroom and everything. Yeah, dude,
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: it's nice. Yeah, I was like, this is so nice. And, yeah, like,
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: you don't– this is, like, the most dangerous lunchroom you'll
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 2: ever walk into.
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: Like, seriously, like, everybody was so nice and so friendly,
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 2: but it was like– You'll never walk into a cafeteria
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 2: that could hurt you so bad.
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, even the line cooks will have, like, cauliflower.
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: He's like, do you want cauliflower? And you're like, oh.
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 2: I'm good on that. How about the broccoli?
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, dude. Even, like, yeah, I think, like,
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: the head chef in there last week was, like, Brandon
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: Roy Vallis. I'm like, they got some gangsters in here.
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: I'm being careful what I ask for in here.
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's hilarious, dude.
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 1: Meta buried casual evidence of social media harm.
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 2: U.S.
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: Court filings allege. Oh, yeah, this was it. This was
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: about information. Somebody did this. Meta shut down internal research
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: into the mental health effects of Facebook after finding causal
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: evidence that its products harmed users' mental health, according to
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: unredacted filings in a lawsuit by U.S. school districts against
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: Meta and other social media platforms. So would that be
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: information bias?
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 2: Internal research into mental health.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 1: In a 2020 research project codenamed Project Mercury, scientists worked
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: with survey firm Nielsen to gauge the effects of deactivating Facebook.
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: According to meta documents obtained via discovery, to the company's disappointment,
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: people who stopped using Facebook for a week reported lower
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: feelings of depression, anxiety, loneliness, and social comparison. Rather than
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: publishing those findings or pursuing additional research, the filing states
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: meta called off further work and internally declared that the
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: negative study findings were tainted by the existing media narrative
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: around the company. Privately, however, a staffer insisted the conclusions
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: of the research were valid according to the filing. Is
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: that user bias?
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 2: I would, I'd say it definitely could be user bias,
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 2: but I would actually have to see the research. I mean,
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 2: there's so many other variables. Like you want to know the,
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: how many like participants were involved? Like what's your statistical
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: in meaning? Like how many participants were there? Therefore, you know,
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 2: your bell curve is going to be a lot more,
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: I guess a lot more valid. You're going to have
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 2: more statistical significance. The, The higher number of participants are
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: involved in the research. For all we know, there's 20
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 2: people that they did research on on Facebook.
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 2: But if they said like, no, we did research on 200,000 people. OK,
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 2: now you got statistical validity. But I need to see
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 2: this research paper. And because one person saying that there's
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 2: user bias and then there's another person saying, no, the
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 2: results are actually scientifically valid. So that person may actually
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 2: have bias because they're, like, emotionally attached to all the
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: research they did.
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 3: Who knows?
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, I see what you're saying.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: This could be, like, a user bias on top of
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 2: user bias. A user bias sandwich.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, I love that. Bias the sandwich, user bias.
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: It's the new bond me, dude. Bring it back up.
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: I want to see a little bit more information. Let
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: me see if it tells us. Because it is interesting
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: to think, though, that I noticed after only a week
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: people were getting better. This is allegedly. The full record
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: will show that for over a decade we have listened
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: to parents' research issues that matter most. and made real
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: changes to protect teens. Go further, see. Okay, the allegation
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: of Meta burying evidence on social media harms is just
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: one of the many. In late Friday filing by Motley Rice,
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: a law firm suing Meta, Google, TikTok, and Snapchat on
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: behalf of school districts around the country. I wonder if
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 1: we get in touch with them. That sounds like kind
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: of an interesting lawsuit, doesn't it? Just to see, like,
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: what are they learning and what information have they learned? Broadly,
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: the plaintiffs argue the companies have intentionally hidden the internally-
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 1: recognize risks of their products from users, parents, and teachers.
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 2: I want to see the research, and I want to
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: see if they conducted it or if it was conducted
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 2: by a second party or third party. That's going to
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: be a huge part of it. I mean, Australia just
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: recently did a social media ban on kids under the
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: age of 16, I believe.
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 1: Why is the Australian government banning social media for under-16s?
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: The government says it will reduce the negative impact of
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: social media's design features that encourage... young people to spend
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: more time on screens. 10 platforms are currently included in
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: the ban, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Threads, TikTok, X, YouTube, Reddit,
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: and streaming platforms like Kik and Twitch. A study commissioned
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: earlier in 2025 found that 96% of children aged 10
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: to 15 use social media, and that 7 out of
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: 10 of them have been exposed to harmful content. This
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: includes misogynistic and violent material as well as content promoting
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 1: eating disorders and suicide. One in seven also reported experiencing
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 1: grooming-type behavior from adults or other children, and more than
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: half said they've been the victim of cyberbullying. Wow. Shit,
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 1: I'm not even a child and all that's happened to
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: me on there.
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: I'm a damn adult and some of.
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: That shit hurts.
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 1: Well, to say how will it work or when they're
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 1: imposing it, I just want to get that information out
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 1: in this. Dude, go back up. It takes Meta about
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: an hour and 52 minutes to make $ 50 million in revenue.
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: That's Australian revenue. That's crazy. Wow. Australia's social media ban
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 1: for children under 16 officially started on December 10th. So
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 1: they're in it.
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: They're in it.
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: If you're an Australian kid... shit i don't think this
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: is legal to have kids call but call and tell
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: me honestly what do you think do you think it's
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 1: good are you pissed about it what are the feelings
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: right now yeah hit me with a couple uh hit
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: the hotline 985-664-9503 and just let it drop drop and
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 1: don't be some fake weirdo pretending with an australian accent
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 1: yeah who's obviously a pervert or whatever we want we
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: want real kids to call in okay.
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: No i mean australia when it comes to science and
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 2: research they They are very thorough. I went to school
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 2: there for a year. You did? I did my junior year.
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 2: I went there for their science programs. Their research programs
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 2: are some of the best in the world. So if
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 2: they've actually done proper research to back this up, I
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 2: believe that it's probably valid science.
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 1: And was that in Sydney?
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 2: It was in Brisbane.
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 2: Got out of Brizzy. Dude, the Brisbane.
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 1: Lions, dude.
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. my AFL squad no way yeah I love the
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 1: Lions dude the Brisbane Lions bring them up and the
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: Wallabies oh yeah the Brizzy Lions dude fucking legends dude
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: bring up Mitch.
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 2: There he is boys class yeah.
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: Dude yeah I love the Brisbane Lions dude I went
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: over there one night with Mitch had a good time
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 1: I love Australia brother it's great.
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah I miss it I'm gonna go back some hopefully
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 2: next year.
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 1: Um did you find are you married Yes. Okay.
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 1: Is there a Stephen Wilson III?
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 2: No, there isn't.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 1: No.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 2: There isn't? No, I don't have any biological children. I
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 2: have a stepson named Henry. Okay. I've been helping raise
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: since he was about four years old.
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, nice.
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 2: He's my boy. Pretty cool kid? Incredibly cool kid. He's
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 2: such a great kid. I'm very, very blessed.
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: What do you admire about him?
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 2: He's, well... He's so different from me in the best ways.
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: He's very intelligent and very collected and calm and very...
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 2: I would say he's more ordered than I am in
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of ways. He's got, I think, this incredible
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 2: constitution about him. And he's got a very calm constitution,
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 2: which is... not what i grew up around like i
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 2: grew up around a lot of noise and a lot
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 2: of chaos and a lot of energy and uh he
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 2: is he's like um he's like a rock in a
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 2: raging river that will not move you know and i
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 2: just i love that about him and he's he's a
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 2: very strong and smart young man very much into muay
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 2: thai kickboxing and we started in boxing and yeah he's
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 2: he's my dude and my dad was a A stepfather,
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 2: not just a father. He remarried after my mother a
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 2: couple times. He didn't have the best luck with the ladies,
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 2: but a couple of his wives had stepchildren, and he
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 2: really taught me how to be a good stepfather, I've
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 2: got to say. Not by teaching me, but just by example.
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 2: His faith was led by his works, not his words.
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: What's one of the toughest things about being a stepfather,
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 1: kind of, that people don't really see, or that they
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: may see, and you may have some specific thoughts about?
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 2: Um, well, I mean, I was not just a step,
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not just a stepfather. I was a stepchild. So
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 2: I remember the perspective as a stepchild. So I go
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 2: into my step parenthood as a stepchild.
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 2: So I have something that a lot of step parents
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 2: that don't have. I have like a really unique perspective
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 2: of what it was like to grow up with step parents.
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: R & D, you've done the R & D.
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've done the R & D. I've had the experience.
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 2: I've had multiple step parents.
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't just have.
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 2: I didn't just have one set. You had a trial sample. Yeah,
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 2: I had a lot of variability.
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 1: Variables, yeah.
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, there we go. So I got some good data there.
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 2: And one thing I just remember, and this was never
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 2: a conversation, my dad just loved his stepchildren like us.
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 2: There was never like, I feel like a lot of
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 2: step parents, if they have biological children and stepchildren, they
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 2: will be like, well, I love you just like I
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 2: love him. And he'll say that he never said that,
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 2: that I can remember. He just did. That was what
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 2: his– that's the lesson that I learned is that it
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 2: has nothing to do with words. It has everything to
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 2: do with your actions. And so I've really just tried
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 2: to be the best stepfather. I cannot talk about being
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 2: a stepfather.
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 3: Got it.
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 2: I can't talk about anything. It makes sense. Just be.
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's tough. It's like– sometimes it's easier
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 1: for me to love a stranger than it is like
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 1: somebody close to me, I feel like in a weird way. Yeah.
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's, you know, familiarity breeds contempt. That's an
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 2: old saying. And, you know, the more familiar you become
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 2: with somebody, the more contemptuous you can become.
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, yes.
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 2: Naturally. Yeah. So like a stranger is without contempt because
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 2: there's no familiarity there. And, you know, that's, I guess the,
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 2: kind of the the battle of love because the more
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 2: you love somebody the more familiar you become with them
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 2: and uh and like i guess that is i know
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 2: like how do you balance contempt and love because contempt
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 2: is gonna kind of creep its way in or some
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 2: somehow resentment something will get in there something negative will
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 2: come in there the more and more you love somebody
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 2: and and uh you know maybe that's just you know
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 2: the darkness balancing out the light but I think just
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 2: acknowledging it and knowing that it's there is really the
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 2: big part of it because the fear or the panic
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 2: behind it is the lack of understanding behind it. Really,
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 2: fear is most of the time just a lack of understanding.
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 1: And fear, sometimes they're standing there and it's like if
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: you really looked at it for a bit, but sometimes
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: I'll just feel a fear and react. I'll do that
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 1: for decades without really looking at what's going on here.
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: What's really got me here? And sometimes you can figure
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: it out and you're free of it. You can at
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 1: least see when it's standing there. But I'll let a
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: damn thing Michael Myers me out there forever and I
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 1: won't even go out there and realize this is just
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 1: a damn cardboard cutout of some old bullshit. Nothing's even
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 1: in this costume anymore. And I've still been acting this
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 1: way because part of me, I get something out of
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 1: pretending that that's still real too. I get an excuse,
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: you know, I get to keep living my life a
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 1: certain way when I pretend that that old boogeyman is
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: still new, you know, not saying that that happens a lot,
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 1: but I'm just saying that that, that hasn't not been
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: a part of my story at times probably. And sometimes
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize it.
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 2: Um, it's wild what the mind can do. Like my
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 2: dad took me deer hunting and I think that was
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 2: the best thing he could have done for me. Not
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 2: just the boxing, you know, you, You deal with a
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 2: lot of fear in boxing because you don't understand certain things.
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 2: But I remember like, you know, when you go deer hunting,
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 2: you go out, especially if you morning hunt, you go
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 2: out about an hour before sunrise into a pitch black woods.
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 2: And you'll walk a quarter mile into a pitch black woods.
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 2: And my dad would post me up against a tree
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 2: with a shotgun in my hand, not even a tree
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 2: stand or anything. post me up against a tree, and
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 2: then he would go off about 500 yards out of
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 2: the way because he'd have to be far away because
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 2: I could shoot him or he could shoot me. You
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 2: can't be in range of each other's shot because we're
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 2: shooting slugs. But I just remember, okay, getting out there
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 2: and an hour before sunrise, it would be pitch black,
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 2: and he would walk me out to this tree, and
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 2: you couldn't see nothing. I remember thinking he would walk
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 2: out here by himself all the time, and I was like, man,
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 2: that's crazy. And he would sit me up against a
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 2: tree in the pitch black, and it would just be
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 2: pitch black. And then he would go off into his tree,
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 2: and I would be there for at least 45 minutes
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 2: in the darkest woods you can imagine. Yeah. Hearing everything
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 2: crick and crackle and move around, shuffle through leaves. Is
• 2:07:30
  Speaker 2: that a wild boar? Is that a hooker?
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: Is that a hooker?
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 2: Is that a cougar? You'd hope it was a hooker,
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 2: but it never was, dude.
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 1: It was like a boar. Yeah, or just a squirrel. Yeah,
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 1: or a raccoon. Like it had gotten shoes somewhere.
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a rabid raccoon. But no, I just remember then
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 2: the sun would slowly start to come up and the light.
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 2: You would start to understand the woods that you didn't
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 2: have understanding of like 45 minutes ago.
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 2: And you'd start to see it. And then it was like, okay,
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 2: it become, literally as the more and more light crept
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 2: into the woods, the more understanding you got of the
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 2: woods and what it looked like, what it was made of,
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 2: what kind of trees, what kind of animals that were
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 2: making all these sounds. And by, you know, by the
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 2: time the sun was up, there was nothing in that
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 2: woods that was scaring you anymore. So it was really,
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 2: you know, your fear was what you didn't understand and
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 2: what you couldn't see. The woods did not change in
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 2: the presence of light, the lack thereof. It was the
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 2: exact same woods that it was 45 minutes ago. Because
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 2: the squirrels don't care about dark and light. You know,
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 2: they just, they live.
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, they're always up to some bullshit or whatever,
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 2: some gay shit. They ain't afraid of the dark.
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 1: They ain't afraid of other men either apparently some of
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 1: these young bucks i've seen a lot of squirrels gerbils
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 1: gosh oh you catch me a little bit craziest richard
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 1: gear baby oh those are the.
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 2: Old days dude remember how there was crazy rumors.
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah i know we were just talking about that like
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 1: richard gear's gay he used to put squirrels up his
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: butt or whatever and people like what but somehow that
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 1: made it around society no i know yeah i don't
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 1: know Yeah, that made it to my tiny little small
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 1: town in southern Indiana. We were just like, what are
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: we talking about?
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 2: I guess maybe that is the downside of social media
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 2: is that those old bullshit rumors don't come up anymore
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 2: because someone would eventually shoot them down immediately. It would
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 2: be all over TikTok in a day and then someone
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 2: would be like, this is a bunch of bullshit.
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: You used to be able to lie to people.
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 2: My dad's a skydiver. Yeah.
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: Like, oh, he'll be home any minute. You fucking lie
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 1: to people all the time. You're like, I'm a lawyer.
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 1: They're like, you're in seventh grade. What are you talking about?
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, whatever.
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 3: Doogie Howser.
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 1: The defense rests.
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 2: Doogie Howser.
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 4: You heard of it?
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, Doogie Howser was good.
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 2: You could become a doctor at like age 12.
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 2: You're like, man, the world is wild. They just did
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 2: whatever they want to in the 90s. Richard Gere, gerbils,
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 2: children doctors, Doogie Howser.
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 1: To be young, huh?
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, saved by the bell.
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 1: I was at the UFC fight the other day, and
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 1: I saw.
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 1: Mario Lopez.
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 1: How's he doing? He looks younger than when he was working.
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 2: He's got his mullet back. He's just walking through.
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 3: Oh, 100%.
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 1: Look, what grade are you in? He's like in seventh,
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 1: eighth grade now.
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 2: Still wearing those leotards and stuff.
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 1: The unitards.
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the unitards.
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, bro.
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 1: He looks even better than that now. I don't even
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 1: know what happened.
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 2: He looks incredible.
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was like, yeah. He's every ethnicity, too.
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 2: Looks like he's still captain of the wrestling team.
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, dude. Dude, oh, God, yeah.
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 4: Oh, geez.
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 1: Sorry. But yeah, guy looks healthy. What I'm saying is this, whatever, dude.
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 1: I like women. But what I'm telling you is, will
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 1: you have kids? Are you on your thing?
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm pretty good. I think, you know,
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 2: we've talked about it. We've also talked about adopting kids. But,
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know. I've got a lot going
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 2: on right now.
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 6: I've got Henry.
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know what it's like to raise a child.
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 2: I know what it's like to love a child. I
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 2: know what it's like for a child to love me.
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 2: I'm not missing anything. Um, so, um, but you never know,
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 2: you know, you never know. You know, we, we could
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 2: have a child. Um, but right now my life is very,
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 2: very busy. And, um, I, I think I have other
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 2: things that I'm supposed to be doing right now, uh,
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 2: rather than raising a baby at the, at this particular
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 2: moment in my life. And, um, And I have some,
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 2: I have a lot of work to do right now. And, uh, maybe,
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 2: maybe a child will be in the future.
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 1: That's fair.
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 2: But, um, but you asked about nieces and nephews. Yes,
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 2: I do. Um, I have quite a, like all my
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 2: siblings have children and, um, yep. I'm wild uncle Steven
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 2: that Goes around the world singing his songs. They're a
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 2: little bit, I'm sure they're like, what the hell is
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 2: this dude? Because all my family are still in my hometown.
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 2: They work on cars, and it's very much a small
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 2: town life. And then my weird ass does.
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 3: What he does.
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 2: But they love it, though, too. Oh, I bet they're
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 2: so proud of you.
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 1: It's cool. Oh, yeah.
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 2: I don't think they know what to think about any
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 2: of it. Because they've seen me kind of live multiple
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 2: lives in front of them. That's been one wild thing
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 2: to see. Because my siblings had their children very young,
• 2:12:31
  Speaker 2: just like my parents did. So a lot of my
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 2: nieces and nephews are older now, so they remember me
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 2: when I was a scientist, and that's all I was doing.
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 2: And then they remember when I quit my science job
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 2: and I was waiting tables and bartending and just trying
• 2:12:48
  Speaker 2: to get a publishing deal. And then they remember the
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 2: guy that got a publishing deal and was writing songs
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 2: for other people and my dad recording them on the
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 2: big phone and all that. And now... There's this chapter.
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 2: So they've kind of got to see their uncle go
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 2: through multiple identities. So if anything, I hope that it's been,
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 2: you know, helpful for them to see that you're not
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 2: stuck in any particular life. Like you can live multiple lives.
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 2: You can do all kinds of things, you know.
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 1: Amen, man.
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 2: And I think it's important for them to see that,
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 2: you know, life has chapters. It's not one chapter. You know,
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 2: and you're writing your own book and you can make
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 2: the chapters as long as you want. But there are
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 2: only so many pages.
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 3: Amen.
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 2: Amen, indeed.
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for helping us think about stuff, man,
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 1: and for giving us some of your music over the years. Dude,
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 1: I'd love to get together and we could talk again sometime.
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's other avenues of things we could
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 1: talk about. And sometimes I realize it's better, you know,
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 1: to just get together and talk again sometime. Yeah. So
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 1: that way we could go down different roads and think
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 1: about other stuff. I think today it's been nice to
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 1: just talk about, like, familiar relationships and how some things
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 1: can influence you. And, yeah, what it's like living, like,
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 1: your father's dream out. we never talked about the theory
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 1: of evolution, but we can get to that next time.
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 3: Maybe.
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we can. I'll, I'll put a whole presentation for
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 2: you together.
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 1: Well, I'll do a more R and D while you're gone.
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 1: I think I might hit a pet and zoo or
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 1: something while you're gone and see if I get a
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 1: little bit more research done, dude.
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 2: Um, well, I gotta say, I probably owe you money.
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 2: Cause I feel like I could have paid a therapist
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 2: a lot of money. I've never had therapy in my life,
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 2: but I probably do need it. Uh, haven't, but you
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 2: said something that was so like insane earlier. Um, About
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 2: the quiet part, you know, about do you think, you know,
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 2: you were quiet because you didn't want to affect the
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 2: world around you. Yeah. I think, like I said, that
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 2: really rocked my world, so to speak. I'll be thinking
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 2: about that for a long time. There's certain things that
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 2: we as songwriters say sometimes to somebody and it kind of,
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 2: flips a switch or it makes them think about something
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 2: they've thought about for a long time totally differently and
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 2: that that was a paradigm shift and i thank you
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 2: for it so if anything i walked away with a
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 2: an incredible piece of knowledge that i like i said
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 2: i could have could have never even found in therapy
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 2: and if i had it would have cost a lot
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 2: of money so thank you oh you won't.
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 1: You're welcome man no you've all you've already you've paid
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 1: me you paid in advance dude So many times I've
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 1: listened to your songs in moments where I needed something
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 1: or to process something or just to remember my father,
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 1: you know, like, like, you know, one thing about my dad,
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 1: I remember he liked to whistle and he had change
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 1: in his pockets all the time. So if I hear change,
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 1: you don't hear change in people's pockets anymore. They used
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 1: to be a thing, you know, like a older man
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 1: ended up changing his keys in his pockets. And now
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 1: like a lot of car doors are just auto entry
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 1: and It's hooked to your phone, and people don't have
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 1: change anymore. But that, like, when I want to think
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 1: about my dad, that's one of the first things I'll
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 1: lay there and think about is the sound of change
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 1: in somebody's pocket, kind of, you know?
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 2: That was his song.
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 1: That was his song.
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 2: That was, like, my dad always whistled. He always had
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 2: a song in his head. He was always whistling a
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 2: song or humming a song or singing a song. Like,
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 2: he was a song. Like, you know, he was either
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 2: writing a song wave or just, you know, being a song.
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 2: without being one yeah but you know like you know
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 2: but yeah there there was always like a sound to
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 2: him it sounds like your dad had the same sound.
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah he was a joyous instrument but yeah if
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 1: we think of ourselves as a song it's like what
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 1: song am i when i go into the room with
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 1: people and you know and you can be different songs
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 1: sometimes you're a separate song maybe when it's just you
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 1: by yourself or or your music's kind of off and
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 1: you're just sort of listening but yeah it's like what
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 1: kind of song do i bring into the world you
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 1: know and then do i just play the same song
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 1: over and over again and maybe i do that because
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 1: i just it's therapeutic to myself you know Um, yeah,
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's, but it's been fascinating, man. It's
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 1: been fascinating to be a fan of yours. It's been
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 1: fascinating to, um, get to share your music with other people.
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 1: I've done that a bunch to connect with them, you know,
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 1: tell my brother, like, Hey man, I love this song,
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 1: you know, and, and then he can call me back
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 1: and like, Oh, I see why you like it, you know,
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 1: and just things like that, that, uh, that can bring
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 1: people closer together. So thank you so much, man.
• 2:17:19
  Speaker 2: Thank you. You shared this music, our music, my music
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 2: a lot on your show and you've talked about it
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 2: a lot.
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 1: I remember Randall Lambert was in and we both loved you. Yeah. Well,
• 2:17:28
  Speaker 1: everybody loves to talk about you behind your back, Steven.
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 1: So I figured we would do it in front of you.
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm grateful either way that anybody is talking about
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 2: this music and you've, you've been an early champion.
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, well, I don't know if that's true, but thank you, dude.
• 2:17:42
  Speaker 1: And Evan Bartels is another great guy. If you're listening
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 1: to any of his music.
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 2: God.
• 2:17:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's just some people that can just make
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 1: me feel something, you know? And so thank you, dude.
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 1: Thank you for helping us feel. Would you honor us
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 1: and play a song or two before you leave?
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 2: Let's do it.
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 1: Let's go.
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 2: All right, let's do it. Let's play some Gary.
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 1: Let's do it, man. Ladies and gentlemen, Stephen Wilson Jr.
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 2: Thank you, sir.
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 3: One, two, three, four.
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 4: Gary these days been lying in his bed man Working
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 4: on the same car going on a decade Scribbles on
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 4: junk mail don't draw attention ¶ Never really noticed but
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 4: now that I mention it ¶ ¶ Ain't a lot
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 4: of boys named Gary these days ¶ ¶ Born with
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 4: a cigarette glued to their face ¶ ¶ Fixin.
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 6: Bout anything a hammer can't handle ¶.
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 4: ¶ Savin' all the money cause a Gary don't gamble
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 4: ¶ ¶ Ain't a lot of girls gone by Debbie
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 4: anymore ¶ ¶ They got the same nicotine pourin' out
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 4: their pores ¶ ¶.
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 6: Time leaves town but the minute.
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 4: Hand stays ¶ There ain't a lot of.
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 3: Boys named Gary these days.
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 4: Gary these days been worried about the bad news.
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 6: There ain't.
• 2:19:23
  Speaker 2: A lot of teenagers filling up the church pews.
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 6: Burning bush lights, don't talk to his brother.
• 2:19:32
  Speaker 9: ¶ The people even still say grace before suffering ¶
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 9: ¶ There ain't a lot of boys named Gary these
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 9: days ¶ ¶ Born with a cigarette good to their
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 9: face ¶ ¶ Fixin.
• 2:19:44
  Speaker 4: Bout anything a hammer can't handle ¶ ¶ Savin' all
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 4: the money cause of Gary Don Gamble ¶ ¶ Ain't
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 4: a lot of girls goin' by Debbie anymore ¶ ¶
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 4: But they got the same nicotine pourin' out their pores
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 4: ¶ ¶ Time leaves town but the minute hand.
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 6: Stays ¶ ¶ There.
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 4: Ain't a lot of boys named Gary these days ¶
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 4: ¶ Hey, every now and then gets.
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 3: A damn thing running ¶ ¶ Takes it out for
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 3: a spin first week of May ¶ He believes in God,
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 3: who believes in a little black-hand piece on the stove
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 3: on his day.
• 2:20:47
  Speaker 4: I had a weird suspicion with the light out on
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 4: the front porch. Hard medication poured down where the drain pours.
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 4: He holds his left arm while his parakeet prays.
• 2:21:12
  Speaker 6: Has anybody seen much of Gary these days?
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 4: Has anybody seen much of Gary these days?
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 4: No, there ain't a lot of boys.
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 3: Ain't a lot of boys.
• 2:21:41
  Speaker 6: Ain't a lot of boys.
• 2:21:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:22:29
  Speaker 1: Why are you doing it like that? It's just fun, huh?
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 1: It's almost like the door closes on it or something.
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 2: It's like the, you know, Gary dies, and it's almost
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 2: like the door closes on Gary. It's Gary said.
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 1: It is, and there's not enough Garys out there.
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 2: There's not. I mean, there are Gary Breed.
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 1: Dude, well, they should have a museum that has Gary's
• 2:22:54
  Speaker 1: in it.
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 2: I agree. You know, I always thought there would be
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 2: a great idea for a Gary Busey museum called the
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 2: Gary Museum.
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 1: Ooh, I like that. Yeah. The museum, yeah.
• 2:23:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 1: He should have that.
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 2: I think so. And you go in and it's just
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 2: like a bunch of Point Break memorabilia. Yeah. And just Busey's.
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of good Busey stuff. Yeah. He was in.
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 2: Make it two.
• 2:23:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of movies and some of his cameos
• 2:23:22
  Speaker 1: even does now could be in there.
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he like breaks the fourth wall. I love that
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 2: about him. He looks at the camera. You ever notice that?
• 2:23:30
  Speaker 2: Like in movies, like he like looks at the camera.
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I notice it as much.
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 1: But now that you say it, he breaks the fourth
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 1: wall of existence of being human.
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 2: He does, yeah.
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 1: He shatters right through it.
• 2:23:38
  Speaker 2: He speaks in acronyms.
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 1: It reminds me of a rare name, dude, that I...
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 1: Or Debbie, we had... Was that Debbie in the song?
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 2: Debbie, yeah.
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 1: We had Miss Robin. That was our lady at our kindergarten.
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 1: And I would not sleep. I couldn't nap time or whatever.
• 2:23:55
  Speaker 1: So she started to notice it, and she'd let me
• 2:23:57
  Speaker 1: go outside and watch her smoke when we were kids.
• 2:23:59
  Speaker 1: And her hair, she goes, if you can't sleep, you
• 2:24:02
  Speaker 1: can come watch me smoke. That was your Debbie. And
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 1: sometimes I would need some sleep, so I'd be like,
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 1: I'm going to sleep today or whatever. But then probably
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 1: two days out of the week, I'd.
• 2:24:11
  Speaker 2: Go out there and she would just.
• 2:24:13
  Speaker 1: Tell me about her husband and stuff like that. And
• 2:24:15
  Speaker 1: her hair was kind of like this feathered sort.
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 2: Of kind of cut. That's a total Robin.
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 1: She looked like, I think she looked exactly like a man,
• 2:24:21
  Speaker 1: but she was beautiful though to me. She was probably
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 1: one of the hottest. She was a woman that would
• 2:24:25
  Speaker 1: talk to me. So she was stunning.
• 2:24:27
  Speaker 2: It was incredible.
• 2:24:28
  Speaker 1: God, there was something like that.
• 2:24:29
  Speaker 2: Just to watch a Robin smoke, not the bird, but
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 2: the human, a human Robin. Yeah.
• 2:24:35
  Speaker 1: We talk a lot about your quote. I know it's
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 1: not your quote, but grief is only love that's got
• 2:24:39
  Speaker 1: no place to go. We talk a lot about that, man,
• 2:24:42
  Speaker 1: on here. We've mentioned it a few times. You think
• 2:24:45
  Speaker 1: you could play that for us?
• 2:24:46
  Speaker 2: I could, yeah. I'd be happy to.
• 2:24:47
  Speaker 1: Would you mind?
• 2:24:48
  Speaker 2: It'd take just a second for me to tune up
• 2:24:50
  Speaker 2: for it.
• 2:24:50
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:25:07
  Speaker 6: Life is a battlefield.
• 2:25:10
  Speaker 4: And it'll drag you right through hell Lights like a
• 2:25:14
  Speaker 4: rattlesnake The kind that you just don't see on the
• 2:25:19
  Speaker 4: trail And I miss my father every day The kind
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 4: of pain I pray don't fade away.
• 2:25:34
  Speaker 6: For the ones above.
• 2:25:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, grief is only love that's got no place to go.
• 2:25:47
  Speaker 4: From my great granddad in the ground to all the
• 2:25:51
  Speaker 4: ghosts in my hometown. Yeah, they're the ones that find
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 4: me down the road. Yeah, grief is only love that's
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 4: Got no place to go Yeah, grief is only love.
• 2:26:15
  Speaker 6: The world is a cannonball So deal with the feelings.
• 2:26:20
  Speaker 4: You can't hide God gave us alcohol When we need
• 2:26:25
  Speaker 4: to leave them all inside And I don't feel like crying.
• 2:26:35
  Speaker 6: But I just keep crying.
• 2:26:40
  Speaker 4: For the ones above To guide me down a road Yeah,
• 2:26:49
  Speaker 4: grief is only love That's got no place.
• 2:26:53
  Speaker 7: To go For my.
• 2:26:56
  Speaker 5: Great-granddad in the ground All the ghosts in my hometown Yeah,
• 2:27:02
  Speaker 5: they're Yeah, grief is only love.
• 2:27:11
  Speaker 6: Grief is only love. I don't feel.
• 2:27:46
  Speaker 7: Like crying, but I just keep crying for the ones
• 2:27:56
  Speaker 7: above to guide me down the road.
• 2:28:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, grief is only love that's got no place to go.
• 2:28:08
  Speaker 4: So hang on to the hurt and let it grab
• 2:28:14
  Speaker 4: a hold. And the only thing for certain is it's
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 4: out of my control.
• 2:28:22
  Speaker 3: And grief is.
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 4: Only love that's got no place to go. Yeah, grief
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 4: is only love that Got no place to go.
• 2:28:36
  Speaker 6: Yeah, grief is only love.
• 2:28:38
  Speaker 3: Grief is only love.
• 2:28:43
  Speaker 6: Grief is only love.
• 2:29:19
  Speaker 1: That's awesome, man. Thank you so much.
• 2:29:21
  Speaker 2: How do we feel? Sound okay?
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 1: It sounds great, dude. Yeah. Just thank you. Yeah. It's
• 2:29:26
  Speaker 1: just nice.
• 2:29:27
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Theo, for everything, man. Thank you. Trevin, was
• 2:29:30
  Speaker 2: that okay? That was fucking awesome.
• 2:29:33
  Speaker 5: Wow, dude.
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 1: He's never used profanity in here. So he's going to
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 1: get into merit.
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 2: He's never cursed in his life.
• 2:29:39
  Speaker 1: Hey, what's going on, dude?
• 2:29:42
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, dude. You're awesome.
• 2:29:44
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 2:29:45
  Speaker 1: And I love it. And thank you for sharing and
• 2:29:46
  Speaker 1: helping us feel and making it okay for people to
• 2:29:50
  Speaker 1: feel stuff. And yeah.
• 2:29:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 2:29:52
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, it's time to feel things because what
• 2:29:58
  Speaker 2: else do we have if we ain't got feelings? I
• 2:30:00
  Speaker 2: think it's the only thing that separates us from the
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 2: robots at this point.
• 2:30:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:30:04
  Speaker 2: So let's lean into what we got.
• 2:30:05
  Speaker 1: Amen. Lean into what makes us real.
• 2:30:07
  Speaker 7: Yes, sir.
• 2:30:08
  Speaker 1: Stephen Wilson Jr. Thank you so much, brother.
• 2:30:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you. God bless you all. You too. Thank you, Theo.
• 2:30:13
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 2:30:14
  Speaker 8: Now I'm just floating on the breeze And I feel
• 2:30:17
  Speaker 8: I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone Oh,
• 2:30:25
  Speaker 8: but when I reach that ground I'll share this peace
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 8: of mind I found I can feel it in my
• 2:30:33
  Speaker 8: bones