Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / Boxing Death Match - Benny Paret vs Emile Griffith

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Boxing Death Match - Benny Paret vs Emile Griffith · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

0:07
Speaker 1: Boxing has always been a brutal sport, one where injuries
0:12
Speaker 1: are unfortunately inevitable and careers can be cut short in
0:17
Speaker 1: an instant. In more recent years, steps have been taken
0:21
Speaker 1: to protect fighters from life altering damage, but when your
0:24
Speaker 1: job involves taking repeated blows to the head, safety can
0:29
Speaker 1: only go so far. Now, imagine the sport in the
0:33
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, an era with fewer regulations, tougher fighters, and
0:38
Speaker 1: bitter rivalries. Add in personal insults, heated emotions, and two
0:45
Speaker 1: men with everything to prove it wasn't just another fight,
0:51
Speaker 1: it was personal, and in this case, it also turned deadly.
0:58
Speaker 1: This is the story one of the most infamous and
1:02
Speaker 1: tragic boxing matches in history. Benny Perett versus Emil Griffith
1:09
Speaker 1: the Third.
1:12
Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole and you're listening to Wicked
1:15
Speaker 2: and Grim, a true crime podcast.
1:20
Speaker 1: The following podcast material intend for a matual audience listener discretion.
1:46
Speaker 1: It's a bit of a different show today. Following up
1:49
Speaker 1: on last week's episode that was quite a brutal case,
1:54
Speaker 1: we are talking about another tragic story, but one where
1:57
Speaker 1: you can argue there may not have even been a
2:00
Speaker 1: crime committed at all.
2:02
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm intrigued.
2:04
Speaker 1: Are you?
2:04
Speaker 2: You got me intrigued?
2:05
Speaker 1: Color you intrigued? Yeah? What color would intrigued? Because you
2:10
Speaker 1: know they say green with envy? You know orange yellow
2:13
Speaker 1: is cowardly, so orange is envy? No or sorry intrigued?
2:19
Speaker 2: I was like, where the fuck did envy come from?
2:22
Speaker 1: I've lost my train anyways, So yeah, orange would be
2:27
Speaker 1: orange with intrigued with orange?
2:30
Speaker 2: Okay, that doesn't work. I don't know, I don't know.
2:34
Speaker 1: I think that's an outdated system anyways. But regardless, it's
2:37
Speaker 1: an interesting case. That was my point. But I also
2:40
Speaker 1: wanted to say one more thing before we really get
2:43
Speaker 1: into this case. It's a big old thank you to
2:45
Speaker 1: the people who subscribe and support us over on Patreon.
2:48
Speaker 1: And this week we had Amber Robinson, Jen Franzen, Tracy
2:53
Speaker 1: d Mallory, Kovalevski and Hassan all sign up and they're
2:57
Speaker 1: getting that good good access to Patreon. Steph that good, good,
3:02
Speaker 1: good good, you know, get all that good good. Oh man, Okay,
3:06
Speaker 1: what would you would you not describe it as good good?
3:09
Speaker 1: What would you describe it as well?
3:10
Speaker 2: Pretty good? We just did a pre show and we
3:12
Speaker 2: talked about some shit we did. We talked about good
3:15
Speaker 2: I feel spaghetti meat Pauls. We talked about that we did,
3:18
Speaker 2: and how I'm off work right now, which not doing
3:20
Speaker 2: very interestingly. But yeah, they get a little bit more
3:25
Speaker 2: like deep dive into they know us more. I guess
3:28
Speaker 2: you could say, touche. Yeah.
3:30
Speaker 1: Plus they get that exclusive episode at the end of
3:32
Speaker 1: the month, which we got to figure out because that's
3:34
Speaker 1: coming up too.
3:35
Speaker 2: That is what date is it today? The seventeenth of
3:39
Speaker 2: March seventeenth. Oh for a minute there, I was like,
3:42
Speaker 2: is that the right month? Holy shit, I need to
3:43
Speaker 2: go back to work. My brain is not functioning.
3:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're almost three months into twenty twenty five. Let
3:49
Speaker 1: that reality sink in.
3:51
Speaker 2: Yeah.
3:51
Speaker 1: I had an existential crisis with that thought the other day.
3:54
Speaker 1: So did you really a little bit?
3:55
Speaker 2: I was like, holy fuck, Well, I feel like the
3:58
Speaker 2: beginning of the month sucks. Sorry, the beginning of the
4:00
Speaker 2: year sucks compared to the middle and end generally.
4:04
Speaker 1: I mean, summer is on its way, so we'll we'll
4:07
Speaker 1: enjoy twenty twenty five when the sun shining and it's
4:10
Speaker 1: nice and bol But for now, let's talk about this story,
4:12
Speaker 1: shall we. Let's do her so boxing in the nineteen
4:16
Speaker 1: fifties and the early nineteen sixties was one of the
4:19
Speaker 1: most exciting and popular sports in the world. It was
4:22
Speaker 1: known as the Golden Age of boxing, when fighters were
4:25
Speaker 1: seen as larger than life figures, Championship bouts were major
4:29
Speaker 1: national events, and boxing was deeply ingrained in American culture.
4:33
Speaker 1: The sport was at its peak, both in terms of
4:37
Speaker 1: public interest and the level of competition. The fighters were
4:40
Speaker 1: just outstanding. In the nineteen fifties. In particular, it was
4:43
Speaker 1: dominated by legendary fighters who were still are still celebrated today.
4:48
Speaker 1: The heavyweight division had Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion who
4:52
Speaker 1: retired in nineteen fifty six with a perfect record of
4:56
Speaker 1: forty nine wins and zero losses. Not to mention this
5:01
Speaker 1: individual by the name of Rocky Marciano, he inspired the
5:04
Speaker 1: fictional character of Rocky Balboa, including his name and his
5:09
Speaker 1: fighting style. And just before we hit record in this episode,
5:13
Speaker 1: I said, this is a boxing episode, and Nicole's like,
5:15
Speaker 1: you mean like Rocky bal like Adrian, yeah, and you
5:20
Speaker 1: were referencing Rocky and I'm like, what do you mean Rocky,
5:23
Speaker 1: And You're like, h Balboa, like the only Rocky, And
5:26
Speaker 1: I'm like what about Rocky Marciano and you're like, no,
5:29
Speaker 1: Rocky Balboa. Rocky Marciano is the original Rocky. He inspired
5:34
Speaker 1: Rocky Balboa. So it was kind of funny that that happened,
5:37
Speaker 1: But I digress. In the lighterweight classes, fighters like Sugar
5:41
Speaker 1: Ray Robinson, considered by many to be the greatest boxer
5:44
Speaker 1: of all time, and Jake Lamota were huge draws. I
5:49
Speaker 1: don't know if I said Jake's last name right. I'm
5:51
Speaker 1: not a huge boxing individual so but regardless, During this era,
5:55
Speaker 1: boxer boxing was structured around the New York State Athletics
5:59
Speaker 1: Commission known as the NYSAC and the National Boxing Association
6:05
Speaker 1: n BA. Not what we know today is the end
6:08
Speaker 1: okay now. There were few weight divisions and only one
6:12
Speaker 1: world championship per division, making the title fights extremely prestigious.
6:18
Speaker 1: The sport was raw, it was brutal, and while they
6:20
Speaker 1: were rules in place, fights were often allowed to continue
6:24
Speaker 1: longer than they really honestly should have. This was also
6:28
Speaker 1: a time when boxing was deeply connected to organized crime.
6:32
Speaker 1: The mob had strong influence over many fighters. Managers, and
6:35
Speaker 1: even referees fixed fights. Shady dealings and pressure from promoters
6:39
Speaker 1: were actually fairly common, and fighters often had little control
6:43
Speaker 1: over their careers.
6:44
Speaker 2: Holy shit, just listening to that, I'm like, wow, things
6:48
Speaker 2: have changed. But then I'm also have they yeah, you know,
6:52
Speaker 2: you think they have. But then I think maybe people
6:54
Speaker 2: are just better at hiding it now.
6:56
Speaker 1: Probably now. By the nineteen fifties, television brought boxing into
7:00
Speaker 1: homes across America. Gillette's Friday Night Fights became a household event,
7:05
Speaker 1: showcasing some of the best boxers of all time. The
7:08
Speaker 1: exposure made boxing more lucrative, with more fighters getting the
7:11
Speaker 1: chance to compete for titles and earn national recognition. However,
7:16
Speaker 1: the increased number of televised fights also oversaturated the sport
7:20
Speaker 1: and led to more brutal matchups. Boxers were sometimes pushed
7:25
Speaker 1: to fight too, often taking more punishment than they should have,
7:28
Speaker 1: not even fully recovering before entering the ring.
7:31
Speaker 2: Once again, yikes.
7:33
Speaker 1: Now, back then, you know, it was like you good
7:34
Speaker 1: to go, sport, I got this, just let me add
7:37
Speaker 1: them right. Nowadays it's like doctor analyzes you. You get
7:40
Speaker 1: a cat scan, you get an MRI, and.
7:42
Speaker 2: It's like you cleared.
7:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're concussed and you've got to be cleared. And
7:46
Speaker 1: it's like you're out for the next like two years
7:48
Speaker 1: like that sort of thing. They didn't really know back
7:51
Speaker 1: then the extent of these injuries like we do today.
7:54
Speaker 2: Oh yikes, that's not good.
7:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, and not to mention whether then you were not fighter.
7:59
Speaker 1: Safety wasn't much of a priority, so it was common
8:03
Speaker 1: for boxers to suffer long term health effects in their
8:05
Speaker 1: careers as a result.
8:07
Speaker 2: Well, the crowd probably went wild, like the more brutal
8:10
Speaker 2: you know, the matches got and stuff, right, So.
8:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets exciting, right yeah. Now, one of these
8:16
Speaker 1: boxers in his golden era was a man by the
8:19
Speaker 1: name of Benny Peret. His nickname was Kid so Benny
8:23
Speaker 1: Kid Peret now Benny was born on March fourteenth, nineteen
8:27
Speaker 1: thirty seven in Santa Clara, Cuba. He grew up in
8:30
Speaker 1: a tough environment where money was scarce an opportunity was
8:33
Speaker 1: rather limited. Like many young men in his situation, he
8:36
Speaker 1: saw boxing as a way out. His journey into boxing
8:40
Speaker 1: was was shaped by more necessity rather than choice, let's say. Now,
8:45
Speaker 1: growing up in Santa Clara, he lived in poverty like
8:48
Speaker 1: many young men of his time, and life was tough.
8:51
Speaker 1: He had to work from an early age to help
8:53
Speaker 1: support his family. He didn't have the luxury school or
8:55
Speaker 1: former training any sort of profession, so we needed a
8:58
Speaker 1: way to make a living, and that's you know. Of course,
9:01
Speaker 1: when boxing came in, boxing was common. It was a
9:04
Speaker 1: common escape for Cubans who wanted to rise above their circumstances,
9:08
Speaker 1: and Benny was no exception. He first got into fight
9:11
Speaker 1: simply as a way to prove himself in rough neighborhoods,
9:14
Speaker 1: you know, and defending himself around where he grew up.
9:17
Speaker 1: But over time he realized he had a natural ability
9:19
Speaker 1: to take his hits and keep going. He was tougher
9:23
Speaker 1: than most, with an iron chin and relentless endurance. He
9:28
Speaker 1: started training at local gyms, learning the fundamental fundamentals, but
9:32
Speaker 1: he was never the most technical of fighters. What set
9:35
Speaker 1: him apart was his heart and his determination. Before long,
9:39
Speaker 1: he entered amateur competitions, fighting amongst other young Cuban boxers
9:44
Speaker 1: trying to make a name for themselves. His scrappy, aggressive
9:47
Speaker 1: style caught the attention of trainers and promoters alike. He
9:52
Speaker 1: had a natural toughness, toughness as I mentioned, and it
9:55
Speaker 1: made him really stand out amongst everyone He fought, and
9:58
Speaker 1: eventually he made the decision to turn professional now to
10:03
Speaker 1: truly make it into boxing, he knew he had to
10:05
Speaker 1: leave Cuba, so he relocated to New York City, where
10:09
Speaker 1: boxing was thriving, and quickly became or certain quickly began
10:13
Speaker 1: building his new career.
10:15
Speaker 2: Go Benny go eh.
10:18
Speaker 1: His work ethic and willingness to fight anyone that they
10:21
Speaker 1: put in front of him put him on a fast
10:24
Speaker 1: track to the top, and within a few years he
10:27
Speaker 1: was world champion.
10:30
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
10:31
Speaker 1: Yeah. It was on May twenty seventh, nineteen sixty that
10:34
Speaker 1: he achieved that dream, defeating Don Jordan to become the
10:38
Speaker 1: world welterweight champion. But in boxing's success is never guaranteed
10:42
Speaker 1: for long, and in April of nineteen sixty one, he
10:45
Speaker 1: would defend his title for the first time and fight
10:48
Speaker 1: a man named Emil Griffith, a talented and powerful fighter
10:53
Speaker 1: for the first time now. Emil Griffith was born on
10:57
Speaker 1: February third, nineteen thirty eight, in Saint Thomas, Us, Virgin Islands,
11:02
Speaker 1: one of eight children. His early life was marked by hardship, and,
11:06
Speaker 1: like many large families in the Caribbean at the time,
11:08
Speaker 1: there wasn't much money to go around. His mother, Emilda
11:13
Speaker 1: eventually left the Virgin Islands to find work within the
11:16
Speaker 1: country on the mainland of the United States, settling in
11:19
Speaker 1: the Big Apple itself, New York City. She planned to
11:23
Speaker 1: send for her children when she could, and eventually she did.
11:28
Speaker 1: She sent for a Meal when he was just twelve
11:30
Speaker 1: years old, to join her over in New York to
11:34
Speaker 1: start his new life. Now, when he arrived, he had
11:37
Speaker 1: no real direction. At first, he had no plans of
11:39
Speaker 1: becoming a boxer. In fact, he was more interested in
11:42
Speaker 1: fashion and design. He found work in a hat factory,
11:45
Speaker 1: shaping and steaming women's hats. However, fate would step in
11:50
Speaker 1: one day when his boss, Howie Albert, noticed Emial's athletic
11:54
Speaker 1: build amongst the workers. Albert, you see, was a boxing
11:58
Speaker 1: trainer on the side and thought the young man might
12:01
Speaker 1: have potential as a fighter given his frame. So one
12:04
Speaker 1: day he took a meal to a local gym, handed
12:06
Speaker 1: him a pair of gloves, and told him to try
12:08
Speaker 1: out boxing. A meal, always up for a challenge, went
12:12
Speaker 1: along with it, even though he wasn't sure if it
12:14
Speaker 1: was for him. He wasn't much of a fighter, but
12:16
Speaker 1: as soon as he got in the ring, it was
12:18
Speaker 1: clear he had something special. He was naturally fast, strong,
12:22
Speaker 1: and coordinated, with a powerful punch and a smooth, graceful
12:26
Speaker 1: movement that made him the fighter he would become. With
12:31
Speaker 1: no previous experience, he impressed trainers and quickly fell in
12:34
Speaker 1: love with the sport. Once he started training seriously, a
12:37
Speaker 1: Meal's raw talent turned into skill. He fought as an
12:40
Speaker 1: amateur boxer, learning the fundamentals and honing his technique. He
12:43
Speaker 1: even won the nineteen fifty eight New York's Golden Gloves Championship. Now,
12:49
Speaker 1: later that year he turned professional under the management of
12:52
Speaker 1: Howie and would become both his trainer and his mentor.
12:57
Speaker 1: In just three years, he went from a hat factory
12:59
Speaker 1: worker to a top contender in the world welterweight division.
13:04
Speaker 2: Holy in three years that seems like fast.
13:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a quick rise through the ranks, and
13:11
Speaker 1: yeah it would lead to a title shot. So this
13:16
Speaker 1: is by early nineteen sixty one, Benny Perett was at
13:21
Speaker 1: the top of the welterweight division. At this time, he
13:23
Speaker 1: had just won that title. Okay, he's now the welterweight champion.
13:27
Speaker 1: And he was tough, aggressive, and he never backed down
13:31
Speaker 1: from a challenge. And his next opponent was Emil Griffith
13:35
Speaker 1: as we talked about being a rising star, so he
13:39
Speaker 1: had a completely different style, faster and more technical impact,
13:42
Speaker 1: real knockout power. But both of them were real, real
13:47
Speaker 1: threats to each other. The fight began, but sorry. The
13:52
Speaker 1: fight between the two men was scheduled for April first,
13:54
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one, at Miami Beach Conventional Hall. As a
13:58
Speaker 1: defending champion, Benny was confident, but many experts believed Meal
14:02
Speaker 1: had the tools to take him down. It seemed like
14:04
Speaker 1: a big match, and both men had their own skills
14:07
Speaker 1: and reasons why fans thought that they would be the victor. Now,
14:13
Speaker 1: the day finally came and the tension in the air
14:15
Speaker 1: was high as fans yelled from the stands and people
14:18
Speaker 1: turned on TVs and radios across the nation tuning in.
14:21
Speaker 1: Both men entered the ring and the match began with
14:24
Speaker 1: the ring of a bell. From the opening moments, it
14:28
Speaker 1: was clear that Emil had the edge on speed and skill.
14:32
Speaker 1: He moved around the ring smoothly, landing clean punches while
14:35
Speaker 1: staying out of Benny's reach. Now, Benny, true to his style,
14:38
Speaker 1: kept coming forward, trying to turn the fight into a slugfest,
14:42
Speaker 1: but Emil refused to let it happen. He stuck to
14:45
Speaker 1: his game plan, using sharp combinations and footwork to stay
14:49
Speaker 1: in control. As the rounds went on, Emil's punches started
14:52
Speaker 1: taking the toll on Benny, and by the thirteenth round,
14:56
Speaker 1: Benny was visibly slowing down and Emil saw his moment.
15:01
Speaker 2: The thirteenth round, Hey, that is just crazy. How many
15:04
Speaker 2: rounds are in boxing?
15:06
Speaker 1: Yes, it's wild.
15:07
Speaker 2: Oh the damage that you can do in that time.
15:10
Speaker 1: Now, he landed a massive right upper cup, snapping Benny's
15:13
Speaker 1: head back and sending him crashing to the canvas. The
15:17
Speaker 1: referee started the count. It was over. Benny couldn't get up.
15:23
Speaker 1: Emil Griffith had just won the fight by knockout and
15:25
Speaker 1: claimed his first world title. He was the welterweight champion now.
15:31
Speaker 1: Despite the loss, Benny wasn't one to back down. A
15:35
Speaker 1: rematch was immediately offered. On the night of the first match,
15:39
Speaker 1: or at least discussed. Emil's corner commended Benny as a
15:43
Speaker 1: fighter and his skill and said that they would welcome
15:45
Speaker 1: another bout between the two of them. Just six months later,
15:49
Speaker 1: on September thirtieth, nineteen sixty one, he officially challenged Emil
15:53
Speaker 1: again in a rematch at Madison Square Garden. This time, though,
15:58
Speaker 1: he fought a different fight, staying more composed and outworking
16:02
Speaker 1: a Meal out in the later rounds and after fifteen
16:05
Speaker 1: grueling rounds. This time, Benny would be the victor as
16:09
Speaker 1: he won the fight by split decision, reclaiming his title
16:13
Speaker 1: in a controversial decision that many believe a meal should
16:17
Speaker 1: have resulted in victory.
16:19
Speaker 2: Okay, So, but split decision means that some judges felt
16:23
Speaker 2: the other way, right.
16:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Again, I'm not a huge boxing individual,
16:29
Speaker 1: but I know, like mixed martial arts, there's usually three judges,
16:32
Speaker 1: so each judge scores about and then you know there's
16:36
Speaker 1: it's like best of three. Basically, two judges voted.
16:39
Speaker 2: For Benny and one exactly.
16:41
Speaker 1: That's split decision unanimous is all judges vote for the
16:44
Speaker 1: same person? Okay, Okay, Now, this is exactly what everyone
16:48
Speaker 1: in the boxing industry dreamed of, hyped up fighters on
16:53
Speaker 1: both like, you know, each side of the spectrum, different
16:57
Speaker 1: fighters they're both winning about and going into obviously what
17:01
Speaker 1: would be a third fight, right.
17:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, you have to talk like it's a
17:05
Speaker 2: tie right now.
17:05
Speaker 1: Really exactly and some people are saying, this guy should
17:08
Speaker 1: have won, and other people are like, well, this guy
17:10
Speaker 1: did win. You know, it's a line in the sand.
17:14
Speaker 1: It's a promoter's dream.
17:17
Speaker 2: A lot of money is being made.
17:18
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. So it's no surprise that since there was,
17:22
Speaker 1: you know, of course, this whole tension building up, that
17:25
Speaker 1: there would be a third match where everything would come
17:30
Speaker 1: to a head.
17:31
Speaker 2: Oh boy.
17:33
Speaker 1: They would meet again in March nineteen sixty two for
17:36
Speaker 1: the match, a fight that would go down in history. However,
17:40
Speaker 1: this time it would go down in history for all
17:44
Speaker 1: the wrong reasons. Now, we can't talk about the fight,
17:50
Speaker 1: that third fight between the two of them, without first
17:52
Speaker 1: identifying a few more events leading up to it. See,
17:56
Speaker 1: Benny entered the fight already worn down from an unusually
18:00
Speaker 1: ruling schedule. Just three months earlier, in December of nineteen
18:03
Speaker 1: sixty one, he had challenged Gene Fomer for the middleweight championship,
18:08
Speaker 1: which means he moved up a weight class, so he
18:12
Speaker 1: had to put on weight to fight this guy who
18:16
Speaker 1: was naturally bigger than him.
18:19
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm surprised that he would do that.
18:22
Speaker 1: This is something that fighters do. They changed weight classes
18:25
Speaker 1: and try for that other championship.
18:27
Speaker 2: Like I get that, but when you're kind of focusing
18:29
Speaker 2: on this other match, and I'm surprised they would have
18:33
Speaker 2: a fight in between. Yeah, is what I'm saying.
18:36
Speaker 1: Well, back in this day, you know what, that's what
18:38
Speaker 1: they did. Yeah, true, Now, Fuller sorry, Fulmer brutalized him.
18:44
Speaker 1: This is where he sits naturally. This is his weight class,
18:48
Speaker 1: his weight division, and he's the champion. So I mean
18:51
Speaker 1: he's bumping up to try and fight him and challenge him,
18:53
Speaker 1: and he got destroyed. He was stopped in the tenth
18:57
Speaker 1: round in a one sided beating. Yead of taking time
19:00
Speaker 1: off to recover from that, though, Benny immediately signed on
19:03
Speaker 1: to defend the welterweight title against a Meal. This meant
19:07
Speaker 1: he was still recovering from the damage that he'd taken
19:09
Speaker 1: against Fulmer in that middleweight fight, making him far more
19:13
Speaker 1: vulnerable than he'd been in previous fights.
19:15
Speaker 2: Shit, he needed more time in between.
19:18
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now. The tension between Benny and Emal also exploded
19:22
Speaker 1: on the night before their fight. So this is the
19:27
Speaker 1: weigh ins. They weigh in and sure they make their
19:29
Speaker 1: weight class. And this is what you know, Like the press,
19:32
Speaker 1: you don't take the photos they stamp face to face
19:34
Speaker 1: sort of thing, and when they stood face to face
19:36
Speaker 1: for that stare down, things reached a boiling point in
19:41
Speaker 1: tension that you could cut, probably with a spoon. Like seriously,
19:47
Speaker 1: Benny mocked Emial's masculinity, and in front of everyone called
19:51
Speaker 1: him quote marri con, probably butchering that it's a Spanish word,
19:56
Speaker 1: which is a homophobic Spanish slur. And though I do
19:59
Speaker 1: know condone the use of this word, I do feel
20:02
Speaker 1: it as imperative to this story to say it in
20:05
Speaker 1: its exact translation, to get the full understanding of what
20:08
Speaker 1: sort of slurry's being called and the state of mind
20:11
Speaker 1: when he was being called this. So for that reason
20:14
Speaker 1: I will be saying it marri Con means faggot.
20:18
Speaker 2: Oh okay, So Benny, Benny was the one that called
20:22
Speaker 2: a meal this a meal?
20:23
Speaker 1: This, yes, okay, and in front of press, in front
20:27
Speaker 1: of everybody, now.
20:31
Speaker 2: Like unnecessary, there's no reason for it. Really.
20:33
Speaker 1: Well, see, Emil had long been rumored to be bisexual
20:37
Speaker 1: and like a hyper masculine world of boxing. Not only that,
20:41
Speaker 1: but we are in the early nineteen sixties as well,
20:43
Speaker 1: when it's extremely frowned upon. This was seriously insulting. It
20:49
Speaker 1: was a pure demeaning act to say in front of everyone,
20:53
Speaker 1: and it enraged a Meal so so much so that
20:57
Speaker 1: he actually had to be held back from attacking Benny
20:59
Speaker 1: on the spot.
21:00
Speaker 2: But honestly just going to fire him up.
21:02
Speaker 1: Really well, it really did, because he wanted to fight
21:05
Speaker 1: him then and there, and he was looking forward to
21:07
Speaker 1: stepping in the ring. And Emial had every intention to
21:10
Speaker 1: punish Benny for what he said. And that is a
21:14
Speaker 1: quote directly from a Meal himself.
21:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean like he insulted him. It kind
21:20
Speaker 2: of makes sense. I don't think that would have been
21:22
Speaker 2: in Benny's benefit whatsoever.
21:24
Speaker 1: I agree now. Promoters, of course took advantage and played
21:28
Speaker 1: up the bad blood between the two fighters, and Madison
21:30
Speaker 1: Square Garden was packed with thousands of fans eager to
21:34
Speaker 1: see the third match, the ultimate grudge match, take place
21:40
Speaker 1: between the two The fight was also broadcast live on
21:44
Speaker 1: national television, making it one of the most highly anticipated
21:47
Speaker 1: bouts of the year. When the bell rang for the
21:50
Speaker 1: first round between the two fighters, Benny was immediately exhausted.
21:55
Speaker 1: He had already been overworked, having fought five times in
21:59
Speaker 1: the past year alone, including the punishing loss to Folmer
22:04
Speaker 1: dang he was nowhere near the top of his game
22:07
Speaker 1: and in his mind, sorry, his mind and his body
22:10
Speaker 1: were just drained. But he was still determined to prove himself.
22:14
Speaker 1: He was still going to go out, and he was
22:15
Speaker 1: still determined to fight to his full extent and keep
22:19
Speaker 1: that belt under his name. A Meal, on the other hand,
22:25
Speaker 1: was focused and angry. He was still bitter about the
22:28
Speaker 1: split decision lost with their second fight, and now had
22:31
Speaker 1: a personal vendetta after the way in slurs being slung
22:35
Speaker 1: his way. A Meal came out sharp, landing quick punches
22:39
Speaker 1: while moving around the ring. Benny, however, was aggressive from
22:43
Speaker 1: the start, pushing forward and trying to rough a Meal
22:46
Speaker 1: up in the middle. Unlike their first two fights, where
22:49
Speaker 1: a Meal had dictated the pace early, this time, Benny
22:51
Speaker 1: seemed determined to set that tone and let Emil know
22:55
Speaker 1: he wasn't going to be backing down. By the third round,
22:59
Speaker 1: Benny managed to land a hard punch that stunned a Meal,
23:02
Speaker 1: forcing him to take a step back. The moment sent
23:05
Speaker 1: a surge of excitement through Madison Square Garden and the
23:08
Speaker 1: crowd as Benny appeared beginning the upper hand in what
23:13
Speaker 1: looked like a huge moment for the champion. A Meal
23:16
Speaker 1: fell against the ropes and Benny raised his hand as
23:18
Speaker 1: if celebrating a knockdown. However, the ref ruled it a
23:22
Speaker 1: slip and the fight continued. In the next few rounds,
23:25
Speaker 1: a Meal recovered quickly and started to take control. By
23:28
Speaker 1: round four, he was landing the cleaner and harder punches,
23:31
Speaker 1: using his footwork to avoid Benny's pressure. A Meal's strategy
23:35
Speaker 1: was clear, work the body, slow Benny down and look
23:38
Speaker 1: for opening to land powerful shots to the head. Benny,
23:42
Speaker 1: though still pressing forward, was beginning to slow and show
23:46
Speaker 1: signs of his fatigue his movements. His movements not as
23:50
Speaker 1: sharp as they were earlier in the fight. In round five,
23:53
Speaker 1: e Meal shots started snapping Benny's head back more frequently.
24:00
Speaker 1: Champion still had his signature toughness absorbing the blows, continuing
24:04
Speaker 1: to move forward and soak him up, but Emil's punches
24:07
Speaker 1: were having a clear effect. The challenger was landing a bigger,
24:12
Speaker 1: more effective amount of shots, and the tide of the
24:15
Speaker 1: fight was beginning to shift in his favor. By the
24:19
Speaker 1: sixth round, a Meal was firmly in control, His confidence
24:22
Speaker 1: was growing, and Benny was struggling to mount any real offense.
24:27
Speaker 1: The early fire Benny had shown seemed to be fading
24:30
Speaker 1: as Emil's precise, powerful punches were wearing him down. The referee,
24:36
Speaker 1: Ruby Goldstein, was already keeping a close eye in Benny,
24:39
Speaker 1: but at this stage he was still fighting back enough
24:42
Speaker 1: to keep the match going. As the fight entered the
24:46
Speaker 1: later rounds, Emil's trainer, Gil Clancy had a simple but
24:50
Speaker 1: ruthless instruction for him, keep throwing punches until Benny either
24:55
Speaker 1: grabbed hold of him or the referee forced him to
24:58
Speaker 1: break took that advice. In the twelfth round, Don Dumfy,
25:04
Speaker 1: calling the fight for ABC, noted how the slowing pace
25:07
Speaker 1: of the match had begun, quoting, this is probably the
25:09
Speaker 1: tamest round of the entire fight. But within seconds, that calm,
25:14
Speaker 1: that slow pace, that breath within the fight, it was shattered.
25:21
Speaker 1: Emil cornered Benny and unloaded a relentless storm of punches
25:27
Speaker 1: directly to his head. At first, Benny tried to defend himself,
25:31
Speaker 1: his gloves coming up in an attempt to block the
25:33
Speaker 1: incoming blows, but the force of Emal's punches left him reeling,
25:37
Speaker 1: his body sagging sideways against the ropes on his left
25:40
Speaker 1: hand side and his head and upper body slipping out
25:43
Speaker 1: of the ring. Emil, showing no sign of hesitation, kept
25:48
Speaker 1: Benny pinned in place with his left arm while his
25:51
Speaker 1: free hand continuously hammered his opponent with uppercuts directly to
25:56
Speaker 1: the head. Benny's arms still moved a case, but his
26:00
Speaker 1: head remained limp over the ropes. Referee Ruby Goldstein later
26:05
Speaker 1: explained that he had seen fighters lean out of the
26:08
Speaker 1: ring like this before to try and avoid clean shots
26:12
Speaker 1: being hit to them, almost like, you know, getting their
26:14
Speaker 1: head out of the way right right, So he has
26:16
Speaker 1: assumed Benny was doing the same, attempting to roll back
26:19
Speaker 1: into position, you know, escape these blows. And to quote
26:23
Speaker 1: him quote, I saw him get his head back into
26:26
Speaker 1: the ring twice, he recalled, convinced Benny was still aware
26:31
Speaker 1: enough to defend himself. That's what he believed now. Also,
26:36
Speaker 1: in Goldstein's defense, he was behind Emil as well, which
26:42
Speaker 1: means it's harder for him to get a clear view
26:44
Speaker 1: of exactly what's going on. I don't see many people
26:48
Speaker 1: talk about that when I was researching his case, but
26:50
Speaker 1: I do think watching the footage that that is a
26:53
Speaker 1: portion of this that we need to discuss.
26:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, not.
26:56
Speaker 1: Being able to get a clear look at his face,
27:00
Speaker 1: how fast this all happened, and assuming what he was
27:04
Speaker 1: trying to do culminated in this all occurring in slow motion,
27:11
Speaker 1: the brutal reality of the moment was clear. Emil landed
27:16
Speaker 1: twenty nine unanswered punches, each one slamming into Benny with
27:22
Speaker 1: increasing force. At ringside, Benny's manager, Manuel Alfarzo Alfaro was
27:28
Speaker 1: screaming for the fight to be stopped, but Goldstein never
27:31
Speaker 1: hurt him. It wasn't until Emil had unleashed nearly thirty
27:36
Speaker 1: consecutive punches that Goldstein, the referee, finally stepped in, pulling
27:42
Speaker 1: Emial away and stopping the fight.
27:44
Speaker 2: Holy shit, that's too much.
27:48
Speaker 1: In that moment, Emil was awarded a technical knockout victory.
27:53
Speaker 1: Benny was leaning against the ropes and didn't collapse immediately.
27:58
Speaker 1: He stood there for a brief moment, still kind of
28:01
Speaker 1: on his feet, head hanging over the ropes, and slowly
28:04
Speaker 1: slid back down to the floor, his body crumpling in exhaustion,
28:10
Speaker 1: or as so the announcers kept saying, in exhaustion, in exhaustion,
28:16
Speaker 1: as doctors and Benny's team rushed to his side. Emil
28:19
Speaker 1: celebrated his victory, raising his arms straight in the air,
28:23
Speaker 1: but within moments, Emil walked back over to check on
28:26
Speaker 1: Benny before announcers could even come over to talk to him.
28:29
Speaker 1: Emil was checking to see if he was okay, but
28:32
Speaker 1: he was quickly pushed away by those surrounding the fighter,
28:37
Speaker 1: urging him to give him space. Right the crowd, unaware
28:41
Speaker 1: of the full extent of Benny's injuries, cheered the new champion,
28:44
Speaker 1: and Benny was placed on a stretcher and carried out
28:48
Speaker 1: of the ring. Speaking with Don Dumfy in a post
28:52
Speaker 1: fight interview, Emil still had no idea what had happened
28:55
Speaker 1: to his fighter, his opponent to quote him, I'm proud
29:00
Speaker 1: to be the welterweight champion again, and he also said quote,
29:04
Speaker 1: I hope Perett is feeling good, but they won't tell
29:07
Speaker 1: me how he's doing. In that interview, they're asking him.
29:11
Speaker 1: They kind of showed like a slow motion replay and
29:13
Speaker 1: like asking him, you know, what's going on in your head?
29:15
Speaker 1: What are you doing? But you can see he's looking
29:18
Speaker 1: over at least at the very beginning before he kind
29:20
Speaker 1: of really gets into the interview, he's looking over at
29:25
Speaker 1: a meal or sort Benny laying on the ground in
29:28
Speaker 1: the corner, and he's genuinely concerned. You can see it
29:31
Speaker 1: in his face.
29:32
Speaker 2: Well, he's probably second guessing that maybe he went too
29:36
Speaker 2: far in like the heat of the moment.
29:39
Speaker 1: That's most likely what it was. Yeah, now, as the
29:43
Speaker 1: reality of the situation said in Emil tried to visit
29:45
Speaker 1: Benny at the hospital, but he wasn't allowed inside. Distraught,
29:49
Speaker 1: he ran through the streets, chased by insult from people
29:52
Speaker 1: blaming him from what happened, being you know, chased away
29:55
Speaker 1: from the hospital and everything. Benny Perett never regained consciousness.
30:02
Speaker 1: He slipped into a coma that night and died ten
30:06
Speaker 1: ten days later at Roosevelt Hospital in Manhattan. He was
30:11
Speaker 1: the victim of massive brain hemorrhaging caused by the relentless
30:16
Speaker 1: punishment he endured in the ring. Basically, he was beaten
30:22
Speaker 1: to death.
30:22
Speaker 2: Yeap, Because hitting in the head is fine hey in boxing.
30:27
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's that's your target. It's what you're trying
30:29
Speaker 1: to do.
30:30
Speaker 2: Oh that it just seems so brutal, Like of course,
30:34
Speaker 2: shit's like I don't know, of course, shit can go wrong.
30:37
Speaker 2: It just seems so easy to think that it can,
30:40
Speaker 2: you know, but well.
30:41
Speaker 1: It definitely can, and you have to look at it objectively.
30:44
Speaker 1: And there is one argument that I've seen pointed out
30:47
Speaker 1: for boxing before in this topic, when compared to something
30:51
Speaker 1: like mixed martial arts like the UFC. For example, in
30:54
Speaker 1: the UFC, they knock someone out, it's done. If the
30:58
Speaker 1: guy's knocked down to the men and the referee sees
31:01
Speaker 1: him stumbling, it's done. The fights over, you have a winner,
31:04
Speaker 1: and this guy unfortunately you got knocked out in.
31:08
Speaker 2: Boxing, but you're not technically unconscious, correct, Okay.
31:12
Speaker 1: In boxing, same thing. You can be technically not unconscious,
31:16
Speaker 1: but you have ten seconds to get your shit back
31:17
Speaker 1: together and you can get back in there and keep fighting,
31:21
Speaker 1: which means you can be concussed yep, and they're sending
31:25
Speaker 1: you back in to fight again.
31:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it can happen again like that. Just
31:29
Speaker 2: the damage, like your body can only take so much.
31:32
Speaker 2: And these these fighters, just listening to the story, they
31:35
Speaker 2: probably already have suffered so much like concussions through their career, right,
31:41
Speaker 2: and you can only have so many of them before
31:44
Speaker 2: you need to just be done with that sort of stuff.
31:46
Speaker 1: Right, exactly. So it's don't get me wrong. I understand
31:51
Speaker 1: the sport, and I understand the steps that they've taken to,
31:53
Speaker 1: you know, try and circumvent these sort of incidents in
31:57
Speaker 1: more modern times. But it's still dangerous because that's still present.
32:01
Speaker 1: You can still get knocked down, you can still get up,
32:03
Speaker 1: you can still have those compounding concussions over time and
32:07
Speaker 1: affecting you. It's just a reality of the sport. Unfortunately.
32:13
Speaker 2: Well yeah, I'm just the ten seconds to get up.
32:16
Speaker 2: That's just it almost gives you shivers, it does.
32:20
Speaker 1: Now. The third fight between Benny Perett and Emil Griffith
32:22
Speaker 1: remains one of the most controversial moments in boxing history
32:26
Speaker 1: to date. Many believe that Benny's tragic fate was sealed
32:30
Speaker 1: before he even stepped into the ring that night. As
32:33
Speaker 1: I mentioned, in the twelve months leading up to the fight,
32:35
Speaker 1: he had endured a brutal schedule, taking severe punishment in
32:40
Speaker 1: three fights, including his December nineteen sixty one loss to
32:43
Speaker 1: Gene Foehmer, where he was battered and stopped in the
32:46
Speaker 1: tenth round. Right, Some questioned whether he should have even
32:50
Speaker 1: been allowed to fight again so soon. The New York
32:55
Speaker 1: State Athletics Commission came under fire for giving his medical
32:58
Speaker 1: clearance despite the damage he had already taken. Now Referee
33:02
Speaker 1: Ruby Goldstein also was under fire. One of the you know,
33:07
Speaker 1: he was once one of the more respectable officials in
33:10
Speaker 1: the sport. He was also heavily criticized. Many believed he
33:13
Speaker 1: waited too long to stop that fight, allowing a Meal
33:16
Speaker 1: to land an uninterrupted barrage of punches before finally stepping in.
33:20
Speaker 1: And they say it was just too much. He should
33:22
Speaker 1: have done something sooner. In a nineteen sixty four interview,
33:26
Speaker 1: Goldstein defended his decision, saying quote, I've never blamed myself,
33:31
Speaker 1: but some people blame me for not stopping it sooner sooner.
33:36
Speaker 1: If the fight were happening right now, I wouldn't have
33:39
Speaker 1: stopped it sooner. Perett was a good, durable fighter. He'd
33:43
Speaker 1: look in trouble in the early rounds, but he'd come
33:46
Speaker 1: back to fire punches and win the round. He was
33:49
Speaker 1: the champion. You give the champion a chance to fight back.
33:55
Speaker 2: I wondered if he would be like kind of blaming
33:59
Speaker 2: himself for feel guilty in any way.
34:02
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure he felt guilty. He actually even
34:05
Speaker 1: was under fire for not visiting him in the hospital. However,
34:09
Speaker 1: it came out later that he was told he shouldn't
34:13
Speaker 1: go visit him in the hospital. He wanted to, like,
34:15
Speaker 1: you know, I want to go pay my respects, you know,
34:17
Speaker 1: see if he's okay to sit by his bedside whatever,
34:20
Speaker 1: and they're like no, you know, like people are already
34:22
Speaker 1: criticizing you. You should probably stay away from the situation
34:25
Speaker 1: sort of thing.
34:26
Speaker 2: Okay, but what you said something about he didn't have
34:29
Speaker 2: the best vantage point, right.
34:32
Speaker 1: That's what the that's my perspective of saying that. Most
34:35
Speaker 1: people don't talk about it, but I believe he may
34:37
Speaker 1: not have had the best vantage point.
34:38
Speaker 2: Could he have gotten a better one or not?
34:41
Speaker 1: Really? Because not really? Yeah, Okay, See it was like
34:46
Speaker 1: they're both in the corner, right, So he's got him
34:48
Speaker 1: in the corner and these barrages of punches are in
34:50
Speaker 1: the corner with his head laying outside the ring a bit,
34:53
Speaker 1: so he's behind, you know, the action going on, seeing
34:57
Speaker 1: a fighter's back and seeing the punches going in another
35:00
Speaker 1: fighter's face. He's trying to get a good look.
35:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you'd have to be outside to really see
35:06
Speaker 2: it full extent.
35:07
Speaker 1: And that's why being over the ropes yourself.
35:09
Speaker 2: That's why Benny's team was kind of like yelling at him, right.
35:13
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now. Some argued that Goldstein hesitated because of Benny's
35:18
Speaker 1: reputation for faking injury. He had been known to lure
35:21
Speaker 1: opponents and by acting hurt only to strike back, which
35:24
Speaker 1: is another thing that people do in boxing and martial
35:28
Speaker 1: arts sports alike.
35:30
Speaker 2: Shit, that's like, what is that the wolf thing?
35:34
Speaker 1: Cry wolf? Yeah, you're the boy who cried wolf.
35:36
Speaker 2: Yeah.
35:38
Speaker 1: Now. Others believe Goldstein was concerned that Benny's supporters in
35:41
Speaker 1: the crowd would actually riot if he stopped the fight
35:43
Speaker 1: too soon. This was actually a large concern at the time. Now,
35:48
Speaker 1: regardless of the reason, the delayed stoppage haunted Goldstein for
35:52
Speaker 1: the rest of his life. He suffered nightmares, severe insomnia, flashbacks,
35:57
Speaker 1: struggling with the weight of what had happened in the
35:59
Speaker 1: ring that night. Though the New York States Athletic Commission
36:02
Speaker 1: cleared him of any wrongdoing, Goldstein let his referee license
36:07
Speaker 1: expire and would never work another major fight. Now. He
36:11
Speaker 1: did attempt to come back in nineteen sixty four, officiating
36:14
Speaker 1: one last bout, but after that he retired for good.
36:17
Speaker 2: Okay, Well then you almost have to think it did
36:19
Speaker 2: affect him quite a bit then, more than I think
36:21
Speaker 2: he's letting on. It did to the press.
36:24
Speaker 1: What he stands by his decision, But he's also could
36:27
Speaker 1: I have done more? I think? Could I have seen more?
36:30
Speaker 1: Did I know exactly? Hindsight is twenty twenty, as they
36:35
Speaker 1: say now, The impact of the fight went beyond the
36:38
Speaker 1: individuals involved. The New York Governor Nelson Rockefeller launch an
36:43
Speaker 1: official investigation into boxing, forming a seven member commission to
36:47
Speaker 1: examine safety regulations in the sport. Over time, incidents like
36:51
Speaker 1: this contributed to the decline of boxing's popularity on network television.
36:56
Speaker 1: The sport, once a national spectacle, slowly faded from mainstream broadcast,
37:00
Speaker 1: and this fight became a symbol of boxing's darker side. Meanwhile,
37:06
Speaker 1: Emil faced intense backlash from Benny's fans. As you can imagine,
37:10
Speaker 1: many refused to believe that it was just an accident,
37:13
Speaker 1: convinced that Emil had intentionally beaten Benny to death. In
37:17
Speaker 1: the weeks and months that followed that fight, Emil endured
37:20
Speaker 1: verbal abuse, threats, and public shaming. Despite the overwhelming grief
37:24
Speaker 1: he himself carried over what had happened. The controversy surrounding
37:28
Speaker 1: the fight never truly faded, and even decades later, remains
37:32
Speaker 1: one of the most talked about sporting events in boxing now.
37:37
Speaker 1: While Emil continued to fight and even won more world titles,
37:40
Speaker 1: he carried this guilt with him and was haunted by
37:42
Speaker 1: Benny's death. He later admitted that he had nightmares about
37:46
Speaker 1: it and wishes that the referee would have stopped the
37:48
Speaker 1: fight sooner. Outside the ring, Amil lived a complicated life
37:55
Speaker 1: in an era where homosexuality was dangerous to be open
37:59
Speaker 1: and about. He struggled with his bisexuality. He was known
38:02
Speaker 1: to frequent gay bars in New York, but he had
38:05
Speaker 1: to be careful. In later years, he spoke about challenges
38:09
Speaker 1: living in two worlds, saying, quote, I kill a man
38:13
Speaker 1: and most people forgive me. I love a man and
38:16
Speaker 1: many still won't forgive me.
38:19
Speaker 2: Oh, that's like a quote from him.
38:22
Speaker 1: That's the quote from him. Yes, dang that hurts.
38:26
Speaker 2: Hey, Yeah, that hits for sure.
38:29
Speaker 1: Emil retired from boxing in nineteen seventy seven, leaving behind
38:32
Speaker 1: a record of eighty five wins, twenty four losses, and
38:35
Speaker 1: two draws, but the years of fighting took a toll.
38:38
Speaker 1: He suffered from dementia and long term effects from head trauma.
38:43
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety two, decades after the fight, Emil and
38:47
Speaker 1: Benny Perett Junior would meet in person. Yes, Benny Perett
38:52
Speaker 1: had a son.
38:53
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I was like, what the shit I thought
38:55
Speaker 2: Benny died Junior? Yeah, Junior, I missed that part. Okay.
39:00
Speaker 1: During this emotional meeting, Perett Junior hugged a Meal and
39:03
Speaker 1: told him that he held no hatred towards him. He
39:07
Speaker 1: understood that it was never a Meal's intention to kill
39:10
Speaker 1: his father, and he recognized that boxing is a dangerous
39:13
Speaker 1: sport where tragedies like this can happen.
39:16
Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay, that's kind of nice. Say yeah.
39:19
Speaker 1: A Meal broke down in tears, relieved to have been
39:21
Speaker 1: given forgiveness after carrying that weight from that fight for
39:24
Speaker 1: so long.
39:25
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Yeah.
39:27
Speaker 1: Meal would pass away inly twenty July twenty third of
39:31
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, at the age of seventy five. His story
39:34
Speaker 1: remains one of the most complex in boxing history. He
39:38
Speaker 1: was a world champion, a tragic figure, and a man
39:40
Speaker 1: who lived a double life in the time when being
39:43
Speaker 1: different was not exactly accepted, and that is the tragic
39:48
Speaker 1: story of the fight between Benny Perett and Emil Griffith.
39:53
Speaker 2: Jeez, I don't even know what to think in that one.
39:57
Speaker 1: Now, I didn't get into one one thing that occurred
40:01
Speaker 1: and one thing many people talk about. There's some controversy
40:05
Speaker 1: over it because some people deny the claims a coach
40:10
Speaker 1: in a corner telling him to kill him, to like
40:16
Speaker 1: go kill him, like get him, destroy him, kill him.
40:20
Speaker 2: Like when he was resting in between rounds, you mean, yeah,
40:24
Speaker 2: which I feel like is kind of something that he
40:27
Speaker 2: was probably just trying to pump them up.
40:29
Speaker 1: I'm assuming I agree if that was something said, I
40:33
Speaker 1: do not think the coach meant literally literally kill him. Yeah,
40:38
Speaker 1: like they do that in fights today. I'm gonna kill him,
40:41
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna get you, like they do that, hyping
40:45
Speaker 1: shit up all the time. It's not uncommon. In fact,
40:48
Speaker 1: there's people who are like having disputes between friends like
40:51
Speaker 1: I'm gonna fucking kill that asshole, you know. Yeah, there's
40:55
Speaker 1: people who are listening to this right now who are
40:57
Speaker 1: probably like I said that about my boss this week.
41:00
Speaker 2: I mean, even when you're like hyping yourself like I'm
41:02
Speaker 2: gonna kill it. I'm gonna go kill it kind a thing,
41:04
Speaker 2: like you're just exactly, it's like a saying kind of.
41:07
Speaker 1: So for argument's sake, if this was said in the
41:12
Speaker 1: corner to a meal, say fucking kill Benny, go get him,
41:17
Speaker 1: like destroy him, and Benny was.
41:19
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I'm gonna do it, be this was said
41:24
Speaker 2: to Benny or sorry a meal Okay, okay.
41:26
Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm getting them back and forth.
41:27
Speaker 2: Yeah that's okay.
41:28
Speaker 1: He was said to a meal in his corner. If
41:30
Speaker 1: this was one hundred percent factual this conversation happened, I say,
41:34
Speaker 1: there is no way that there was ever any true
41:38
Speaker 1: intent to take a life with those statements or actions
41:41
Speaker 1: that followed afterwards.
41:42
Speaker 2: No, you know, I kind of Oh, I sit here
41:45
Speaker 2: and I'm like, how could the ref I mean, like
41:50
Speaker 2: that is that's a lot that Benny was like taking,
41:54
Speaker 2: and how could it not be? How could you miss that?
41:59
Speaker 2: You know? It was like that's too much, Like it's
42:01
Speaker 2: too much that he's But then it's also then you
42:04
Speaker 2: have to put yourself in that situation and with like
42:06
Speaker 2: the history and the heat of the moment and the
42:09
Speaker 2: crowd and like that probably went on. It probably felt
42:15
Speaker 2: like less time than it actually was. I'm thinking, do
42:17
Speaker 2: you know what I'm trying to say? Here?
42:19
Speaker 1: It goes by quick though too.
42:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like those hits, I don't know,
42:24
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, like in slow motion, you're kind of like,
42:27
Speaker 2: holy shit, how could you not stop that? How could
42:29
Speaker 2: you not think that he can get through that? But
42:31
Speaker 2: it's just probably like a blink of an eye, and
42:33
Speaker 2: it's you know, it really is.
42:35
Speaker 1: It didn't take long for this to happen. And when
42:37
Speaker 1: I say it was like twenty nine unanswered punches, I
42:40
Speaker 1: mean it was twenty nine unanswered punches. It's not that
42:43
Speaker 1: he quick, yes, but it's not that he was unconscious
42:47
Speaker 1: and sloped on the rope for twenty nine unanswered punches.
42:51
Speaker 1: He was like slumped on the ropes for probably just
42:55
Speaker 1: a few seconds. He is up and standing there for
42:58
Speaker 1: majority of us. Oh, he's probably slumped on the ropes
43:01
Speaker 1: for six seconds maybe.
43:04
Speaker 2: But still, yeah, it's it's still too much. But I
43:07
Speaker 2: do I don't know it is. I don't know all
43:10
Speaker 2: the rules and everything, and it's so much easier just
43:14
Speaker 2: to say sit back and be like, wow, he should
43:17
Speaker 2: have called that.
43:18
Speaker 1: You know, here, take a look at the fight.
43:20
Speaker 2: This.
43:21
Speaker 1: You can watch the entire fight on YouTube, and there's
43:23
Speaker 1: a documentary called The Ring of Fire. I highly recommend it.
43:26
Speaker 2: Is it on Netflix or what.
43:27
Speaker 1: It's on YouTube? You can go watch the document youre
43:29
Speaker 1: on YouTube. So here's the fight. You can see he's standing.
43:32
Speaker 1: He's taking these punches, but he's standing. He's got his
43:34
Speaker 1: whereabouts with him. He's clearly tired, which is exactly why
43:38
Speaker 1: Emil's pushing. He's conscious, he's conscious, right, yeah, Okay, Now
43:43
Speaker 1: he's slumping one Mississippi two, Mississippi three, Mississippi four Mississippi.
43:49
Speaker 1: Five seconds five seconds of his slump slumped on the rope.
43:55
Speaker 1: Oh my god, those five seconds. It's the only window
43:58
Speaker 1: where that ref could have made the call of when
44:00
Speaker 1: to stop it.
44:02
Speaker 2: Okay, that's terrible to watch that. Holy shit, it is terrible.
44:05
Speaker 2: I feel like I almost need to watch that again
44:08
Speaker 2: because I'm watching and I'm like, okay, no, it should
44:10
Speaker 2: have been cold, but I don't know. Holy shit.
44:14
Speaker 1: Now, like you can see that Goldstein, the referee, he
44:18
Speaker 1: does have a pretty good view, like you can see
44:21
Speaker 1: him here. He's looking, but then Emil steps in front
44:23
Speaker 1: of him and he's trying to regain position for a
44:25
Speaker 1: brief moment. So it might only be a fraction of
44:29
Speaker 1: a section where a second where he didn't have a
44:31
Speaker 1: proper view of it. But I think it's enough to
44:33
Speaker 1: be like, oh well, there's another you know portion where
44:35
Speaker 1: he got another punch.
44:36
Speaker 2: In, And it might have, honestly even been the same outcome. Really,
44:40
Speaker 2: it might have because the guy his body was just
44:43
Speaker 2: done it. It had gone through way too much. It
44:47
Speaker 2: has like even if say he did stop it like
44:51
Speaker 2: three seconds earlier, four seconds earlier, Like I'm not sure
44:54
Speaker 2: the outcam would have been any different for Benny.
44:56
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. And so like, yeah, here's
44:59
Speaker 1: him laying in the ring. The video keeps going and
45:01
Speaker 1: you can see like where is it where Emil, Like
45:05
Speaker 1: they're they're announcing, you know, who the winner is and stuff.
45:08
Speaker 1: The bring announcer is a microphone everything. Yeah, Benny's laying
45:11
Speaker 1: down the ground. People are all around him, checking in
45:14
Speaker 1: on him. Emil gets his hands raised, right, Yeah, he's
45:18
Speaker 1: he's before even like wanting to talk to anyone. He's
45:21
Speaker 1: looking over and he's going to go check on his
45:23
Speaker 1: opponent in the corner. He's there. He wants to see
45:27
Speaker 1: and he's.
45:27
Speaker 2: He's worried about it.
45:28
Speaker 1: Yeah he is. And this is thirty seconds after the
45:32
Speaker 1: knockout is declared.
45:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can tell he's very distracted, for sure. I
45:36
Speaker 2: mean he's also tired as hell, so he is, but.
45:38
Speaker 1: He's he's concerned about his opponent, so concerned about talking
45:42
Speaker 1: about his victory.
45:43
Speaker 2: Just doesn't really wake up after that.
45:45
Speaker 1: Like it's correct, he hits the mat and he never
45:48
Speaker 1: wakes up.
45:49
Speaker 2: Oh boy, that's I don't know. That's sad. It is
45:54
Speaker 2: you almost think someone has to be held responsible. But
45:56
Speaker 2: also it's you put yourself like in that risk, I guess, right.
46:00
Speaker 1: So well, that's another thing is he didn't how much
46:04
Speaker 1: of his career did he have control of? Was he
46:06
Speaker 1: told you fucking go in there and you fight again.
46:09
Speaker 1: You're fighting now, you're fighting in a month from now,
46:12
Speaker 1: and two months from now. Get like, you're gonna do
46:14
Speaker 1: all these fights in this year? Who was his manager?
46:17
Speaker 1: Who is the one signing him up for these fights?
46:19
Speaker 1: So who's liable?
46:21
Speaker 2: Because the one fight was in December right where he
46:24
Speaker 2: like got quite injured, and the next one was in March,
46:29
Speaker 2: I believe. So yeah, you said, which, gosh, that does
46:31
Speaker 2: not seem like near enough time in between.
46:35
Speaker 1: No, So it is a very much so tragic tale.
46:38
Speaker 1: I do think that there is a crime committed somewhere
46:40
Speaker 1: in there, but the problem is identifying who committed it.
46:45
Speaker 1: Who do you find responsible, who's criminally negligent? Who put
46:48
Speaker 1: this man's life in the line?
46:50
Speaker 2: Yeah?
46:51
Speaker 1: Is it somewhere in the uh you know, the association though, Yeah,
46:55
Speaker 1: the State Athletic Commission. Is it his manager? Who?
46:59
Speaker 2: Yeah? Because I don't feel like it's necessarily a meal
47:02
Speaker 2: or I don't really necessarily think it's it's the ref
47:06
Speaker 2: that's so tough, but it has to be something, has
47:10
Speaker 2: someone has to be held negligence.
47:13
Speaker 1: I think, well, there's it's a funny thing because we
47:17
Speaker 1: talked about me being you know, a safety background, occupational
47:21
Speaker 1: health and safety, and there's this a theory I guess
47:24
Speaker 1: you can call it or effect. Maybe it's called the
47:27
Speaker 1: Swiss cheese effect. I think so. Basically, if you were
47:31
Speaker 1: to take say a dozen pieces of Swiss cheese, and
47:34
Speaker 1: you lay them all on top of each other, can
47:36
Speaker 1: you poke a hole directly through it all? Probably not, yeah,
47:40
Speaker 1: But if you do it over and over again, eventually
47:44
Speaker 1: holes will line up where you can see a hole
47:46
Speaker 1: directly through it all. So if the athletics commission has
47:50
Speaker 1: a hole in it, his promoter has a hole in it.
47:54
Speaker 1: You know, the hype about the match has a hole
47:57
Speaker 1: in it. The referee saying, you know what, he's a champion,
48:00
Speaker 1: he can go that extra two seconds. I got to
48:01
Speaker 1: give him the chance. There's a hole in it. Things
48:04
Speaker 1: lined up perfectly for a man to lose his life.
48:08
Speaker 1: Is any one person responsible or is a whole vast
48:13
Speaker 1: accumulation of things responsible.
48:17
Speaker 2: Well, I was just looking up because there was all
48:19
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think when you're in sports too,
48:22
Speaker 2: there's just like risks, right.
48:24
Speaker 1: Oh, there is. It's a natural thing for sports. You
48:26
Speaker 1: put your body on the line, like.
48:28
Speaker 2: This wasn't that long ago. Is his name Adam Johnson?
48:31
Speaker 2: I think he was playing hockey right, and remember of
48:34
Speaker 2: skating like we skate went to his neck? Is this terrible?
48:39
Speaker 2: Like just terrible? And then he did end up dying,
48:43
Speaker 2: Like is someone held you know, responsible for that or
48:47
Speaker 2: is it just like a shitty occurrence kind of thing,
48:51
Speaker 2: Like I don't know, I don't know. There's a lot
48:54
Speaker 2: of events in sports where people die, Like I'm thinking
48:57
Speaker 2: back to Olympics. Someone died. I think in Vancouver they
49:01
Speaker 2: were doing the was it the skeleton or yeah, maybe
49:06
Speaker 2: and someone died. Like it's just it's not unheard of
49:09
Speaker 2: that people die in sports, right like.
49:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, but yeah, that's the story of Benny Perett
49:15
Speaker 1: and Emil Griffith the third It.
49:18
Speaker 2: Seems like he was just like an absolute legend kind
49:21
Speaker 2: of thing, right that got Yeah, yeah, that is life
49:25
Speaker 2: ended too soon, that's for sure.
49:27
Speaker 1: Just like I say, it's a tragic tale for sure.
49:30
Speaker 1: But whether there is a crime committed that is that
49:32
Speaker 1: is another question. So if you guys have an opinion,
49:35
Speaker 1: we're curious about it, shoot us a message. We'd love
49:37
Speaker 1: to hear what your take is, whether you think you
49:40
Speaker 1: know there's a certain person responsible or something that could
49:42
Speaker 1: have been done to prevent it. Of course, in hindsight,
49:45
Speaker 1: there's many things that could have been done to prevent it,
49:47
Speaker 1: but even still, we're interested in your perspective, So shoot
49:49
Speaker 1: us a message. If you're looking for links in the
49:51
Speaker 1: description of this podcast, they're all down there, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube,
49:55
Speaker 1: website thingies. There. It's there, you can find it. You
49:59
Speaker 1: click on the option big Old list just for.
50:02
Speaker 2: You, Big Old List.
50:03
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, it's there.
50:05
Speaker 2: Oh okay, well, good job, well done.
50:07
Speaker 1: As usual, I appreciate it, and until next time, stay wicked.