Latest / Weeknight Mysteries Podcast / #77 What Really Happened to Rey Rivera? | The Belvedere Hotel Case

Transcript

#77 What Really Happened to Rey Rivera? | The Belvedere Hotel Case · Weeknight Mysteries Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Weeknight Mysteries podcast. My name is
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Juras and I am here with my co-host Rain. How
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: are you doing today?
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty good as always. How are you today?
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty good. We would like to ask all of
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: our listeners to please subscribe to our YouTube channel or
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: please follow us on any of the podcast apps that
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: you listen to this podcast on. It could be Spotify,
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Apple podcast, anything that you are using. And please leave
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: a review for the podcast, because the review definitely helps
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: us moving forward and rate the pod. Today we are
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: going to be talking about the case that Rain brought
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: up as a possibility to discuss today, which is the
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: strange death of Ray Rivera. How did you run across
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: this case, Rain?
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Like the other time I found it on Instagram Reels,
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: it was a quick reel about how Ray Rivera's death
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: doesn't really match up with what was the official known
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: cause of it. And I was like, okay, this seems
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: very interesting. I brought it up to you and you
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: were like, okay, I know about this. There's an Unsolved
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Mysteries episode about it. It's pretty popular. And we just
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: jump into it. Yeah.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So I remember Ray's case because I feel like
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: I definitely talked about Ray's case on my other podcast.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: SMP?
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I used to be doing SMP back in the day.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, did you?
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like we talked about Ray's case in SMP.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: I think it could be like 2021 that I last
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: talked about Ray Rivera's case. So I had, you know,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I generally remember the story. We have a guy who,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Seems like he jumps off a hotel and seems that he,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: you know, dies. Well, he definitely dies, but it's kind of,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: you know... Mystery.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: There's a mystery around it.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess the mystery surrounding it is whether or
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: not Ray actually committed self-harm or maybe there was something
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: else happening.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: It's definitely... One of the crazy cases that we talk about,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: there are some notes that were found. Sketchy people. Well,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: there's always sketchy people, but you know what I mean.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: You mean specifically in this case, a man by the
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: name of Porter Stansberry?
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Yes. But before we dive into that, do you still
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: remember how you found out this case?
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I think actually back in the day when we were doing... SMP,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: another podcast, we decided that we're going to talk about
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: a case from the new Unsolved Mysteries reboot that was
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: being made on Netflix. I think, I don't exactly remember
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: when the reboot was, first aired i think maybe it
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: was 2020 for some reason i'm thinking that it could
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: have been 2020 and we were just excited i feel
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: like a lot of people were excited for unsolved mysteries to.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Come back yeah it was a massive thing i.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Feel like and the race case is actually the very
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: first episode of the reboot we watched the episode as
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: well and we did other research and uh It seems
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: like there are conflicting theories, or let's put it this way,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: conflicting pictures that are being painted. Unsolved mysteries are saying, well,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: they're heavily leaning towards that this was not self-harm, that
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: there could be something else taking place.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: I know there was a book written. I don't remember
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: the name at the moment.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: There was a book written? You didn't tell me about it.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: There's a book about the case.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Okay, another book that we're going to have to purchase.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: It's a lady, if I'm not confusing, because I know
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: there was a lady living in the Belvedere Hotel in Baltimore.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: You know, the same hotel where it seems that somehow
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Ray Rivera was... either jumped off or was thrown off
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: you know if you think it was a foul play
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: she was staying in the same hotel she wrote a
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: book and uh if i'm not mistaken because there could
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: be multiple books on this topic because i was only
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: i only found people commenting on one particular book so
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: i hope this is the book in the book the
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: author writes a bit of a different picture than what
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: unsolved mysteries had portrayed in their very first pilot episode
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: on Netflix. And, yeah, maybe the point of view that
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: the author has could maybe not sell to Netflix that well. Because,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: you know, Netflix needs entertainment.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Maybe the story that the book portrays is less entertaining.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: I even find that Netflix episode detailed, but not really detailed.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Does that make sense?
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: In what way?
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: In a way, it was very detailed, but it feels
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: like it just covered a little bit of it. Just
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: the discovery of the body.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Well, to be honest.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: And the aftermath.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: To be honest, I don't know who to believe. Because
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: I think there is enough strange things happening in Ray's
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: case that I think, to be honest, I wouldn't necessarily
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: rule out anything at the moment. Because we just don't know.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, we can never know.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about the case. So, Ray
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Rivera was 32... at the time of his death. His
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: body was found on the 24th of May in 2006. So, actually,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: it has been over 20 years. His 20-year death anniversary was,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: I would like to say, close to two months ago,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: a month and a half ago. It has been 20
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: years since Ray has been dead. He was found... his
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: body was found decomposing already on the 24th, meaning that
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: he probably has been dead at the time of discovery
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: of his body for over a week, to be honest,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: by the sound of it. He was found in the
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: historic Belvedere Hotel in Baltimore. Belvedere Hotel is.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Famous hotel in Baltimore. It was the glamorous location. I
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: believe it was built in the early 20th century.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: It's gorgeous.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a beautiful building.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Anything else that stood out to you?
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Old looking, but beautiful.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Really pretty.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: It's also... How many floors were there? Because it seems
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: pretty high up.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know the floor number.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: But it seems like it had a lot of it.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a tall building. One thing I will mention here,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: as a person from post-Soviet Union, we don't have any
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: of these really pretty kind of American early 20th century
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: buildings or anything like that.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Right.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Maybe, yeah, not quite anything that America has. And I
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: think that particular type of building is one of the
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: best looking buildings, in my opinion.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: It's gorgeous, gorgeous.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: And you can find these all over the United States.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: So I think they made some really good looking buildings
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: back in the day. I know that the Belvedere Hotel
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: now is a condo. And I believe, or like, you know,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: you can buy like, it's, I believe, not a hotel anymore.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Or is it like more of a hotel slash luxury condominium?
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess we can take a little bit of
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: a deeper look during the podcast into the Belvedere Hotel itself.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: From my knowledge, it is now a condominium. I don't
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: know if it was... fully non-operational as a hotel back
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: in 2006 i feel like it wasn't but then again
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: remember we watched the unsolved mysteries pilot episode and they
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: had this guy who who opened the door to the
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: to the conference room or something like that where ray's
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: body was found so they have a guy who works
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: at the building so i'm not really sure if it's
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: a hotel or not in 2006 um Actually, maybe you
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: could pull this one up while I continue. Could you
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: ask the internet?
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: But before we dive into that, for the listeners who
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: haven't heard the phrase case, maybe we should start from
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: the very beginning.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. But I was just wondering if Belvedere Hotel
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: is a... Obviously, we're going to be talking about the case.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: If Belvedere Hotel was still a hotel in 2006, because
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: I don't have this in my notes. And I feel
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: like it's something I probably should have tried to figure
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: this one out before we jumped in on it.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: There are several historic properties named Belvedere. In 2006, the
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: famous Belvedere Hotel in Baltimore, Maryland, was no longer a
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: traditional motel. as it had been converted into a private
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: condominium in 1991, though its ballrooms, restaurants, and lounges remained
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: open to the public.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, thanks for pulling this one up. So that explains it.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: It wasn't already a fully functioning hotel, but I guess
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: some facilities were still part of the... Rentals.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: So authorities have ruled Ray's death a probable self-harm. However,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: the circumstances of Ray's death are mysterious and they are disputed, especially,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: as I understand, by the family members. According to information
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: that I found online, Ray was actually a stable newly
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: married man with seemingly no reason to commit self-harm, at
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: least at first glance. When we have some references from
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: the book, there are certain aspects of his life that
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: are put forward in the book that might make us
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: think otherwise. Ray was a former water polo player and
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: a coach. I don't know if he grew up in
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Puerto Rico. I remember on the Unsolved Mysteries, his whole
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: family is Puerto Rican. But he, growing up, he was
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: a water polo player as well as a coach when
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: he got a bit older. After finishing his university, he
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: actually played professionally in Spain, according to Wikipedia. And he
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: was also an aspiring screenwriter as well.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: He actually, I read somewhere that he was supposed to
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: go to the Olympics.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: For the... United States water polo team?
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: He was qualified for it, but I think it didn't
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: push through because he had a little bit of dispute
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: with the coach.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: So he was elite.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: He was elite.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: You're saying Ray Rivero was an elite water polo player. Because,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, that is.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: That is amazing. Amazing feat.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: That is actually.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Apparently, it's one of his biggest regrets that he never
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: went to the Olympics again. It's just probably a small
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: dispute with the coach. It's kind of very sad.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Any more information on that?
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: That's all the information I have.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: Interesting. I didn't see this detail. From 1998 to 2001,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: he coached the boys and girls swimming and water polo
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: teams at John Burroughs High School in Burbank, California. After that,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: he was the assistant coach for the men's water polo
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: team at John Hopkins University in Baltimore. So I believe
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: that at the time of his death, though he was
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: working as a freelance financial newsletter writer for a company
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: that was, I believe, owned by one of his childhood friends.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: We're going to get into that. At the same time,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: he was also coaching as an assistant coach at the
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: university in Baltimore, the John Hopkins University. John Hopkins University
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: is actually one of the top, american universities it's a
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: top 10 university in the states so i feel like
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: that's a very interesting dynamic like he has a very
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: interesting work like what he did for money so at
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: the time of his disappearance before they found his body
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: ray and his wife um oh yeah so sorry about
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: that uh in general ray and his wife They had
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: relocated to Baltimore from California so that Ray could work
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: with his longtime friend Porter Stansberry as a writer and
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: videographer for Stansberry Investment Company, which was called Stansberry and
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Associate Investment Research, which was a subsidiary of Agora Publishing.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: So Agora Publishing was the parent company and under it
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: there were smaller publishing companies, which I believe Stanbury and
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Associates Investment Research was one of the companies. And I
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: believe that at the time of Ray's death, he no
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: longer worked full time for this company because at that
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: point he was doing freelance projects for Stansbury's company. But
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: at some point during his career there, he was a
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: full-time employee. And I believe that was the reason why
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: they left California, him and his wife, Allison, to work
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: for Stansberry. What Ray was doing in Stansberry's company, he
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: was writing for a specific newsletter called the Rebound Report.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: I believe it was called the Rebound Report. So it's
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: basically a newsletter that gives stock tips, you know, like
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: which stocks you should invest in. And the selected stocks
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: that were, you know, part of the newsletter were the
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: ones that were kind of like beaten down, not really
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: doing that well. But there was some sort of a
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: thesis behind why these stocks would turn around, meaning that,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: you know, like you buy low, sell high type of investment. However,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: it was also mentioned, I think, on Wikipedia or somewhere
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: that actually those stock picks that Ray was writing about
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: were not really panning out. So the stocks that were,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: you know, going down or like kind of not doing much,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: you know, beaten down stocks, they kind of remained beaten down.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: None of them really panned out or I don't know
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: if none of them panned out, but that was.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: What does that mean?
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Meaning that, you know, like, let's say there's a stock.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: No, I meant like.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, sorry.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: The stocks that radio was writing they didn't really pan
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: out was what does.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: That mean i'm saying they didn't really rebound.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Look no i meant like was he writing was he
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: advising incorrectly or something i.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Guess he was in a way like in a in
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: the grand scheme of things um he was advising to
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: buy stocks that were supposed to go up but they
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: didn't i mean no one is uh no one is
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: uh is able to tell if a stock is going
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: to go up. So I think they had disclaimers that,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: you know, use your own discretion here.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: But none of them, not one, panned out.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: It was 2000. I don't know when he started writing
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: because he started writing, it depends when. Because, you know,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: it depends on the market as a whole. If the
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: market is going down, then it would be tough for
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: individual stocks that were already not doing good for all
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: of a sudden start going up. So I don't know
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: at which time. I think he was writing right after
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: the dot-com catastrophe in America. And I think it was
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: right before the 2008 financial crisis. So he was in
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: this interesting time. I don't know much about that time.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: So it could be that he was writing about some
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: things that really had no chance of ever coming back alive.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: But someone has to write these things, and Ray was
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: the one to do it. So Ray was doing that work.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: We also have some information that, according to online sources,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Ray lived a comfortable life with his longtime partner and
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: newly wedded wife, Allison. Once again, I'm reading out all
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: of these informations, but then again, that book might have
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: some other information, but that's coming up, I guess. We
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: have a picture. Sorry, you wanted to chime in here?
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, not really.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: I was just going to say we have a picture
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: of Ray and his wife, Allison. And we heard Allison
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: comment on Ray's case on Unsolved Mysteries pilot episode. What
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: do you think about Allison? And Allison on the Unsolved
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Mysteries on Netflix, she seems to indicate that maybe somehow
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Ray's work within the Agora publishing could be related to
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: his death. You remember she was leaning towards Felpley.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: I could see that happening, to be honest. And my
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: opinion about her, it's kind of heartbreaking because in that interview,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: it seems like there's still a lot of pain there.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? mean she was holding on
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: she was explaining she was holding on to a piece
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: of erase flip-flops just one piece and just explaining like
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: what happened there and how she doesn't believe the stories
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: and just feel like after all these years there's still
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Pain That's such an interesting thing to me. Now that
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: we're thinking about... Okay. On the Unsolved Mysteries Netflix, Alison
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: pulled out.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: A flip-flop.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: I think two flip-flops.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, I just saw only one.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: I think she had both flip-flops. One of them was broken,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: like the.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: And dragged, it seems like.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, some sort of drag marks. And to me, it
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: was interesting. Only now I'm thinking... Shouldn't those flip-flops.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Be in the evidence? Yeah. I have no idea. I'm
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: not sure if those were the real flip-flops or imitation.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It looked real to me.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Can you get the evidence? Did they release the evidence
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: after some time passes? Or maybe once the case is closed.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Is this case closed?
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: It's not closed. It's... It's a probable self-harm. So I
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: think it's closed until they get some new information that
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: could get them back to investigate. So I don't think
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: it's fully closed. It doesn't sound to me that the
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: case is fully closed, but yet we have Allison... Ray's
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: wife showing off the flip-flops which Ray was wearing.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: And it seemed like the actual flip-flops because she was
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: showing the drag marks on the rubber.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Unless those were.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Imitation?
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Imitations.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: How can you imitate the drag mark on the rubber?
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Just drag the flip-flops?
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: But like specifically because it feels like it's very... She
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: was pointing it out in a very specific manner like
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: the drag marks.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: It's interesting. Maybe it's nothing. But she did have those flip-flops.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Ray was working as a financial newsletter editor of the
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Rebound Report. Okay, so this is what it was called.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: So the company itself was, I believe, started by his
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: longtime childhood friend, Porter Stansberry. We learn on Netflix documentary
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: that Porter knew Ray since they were 15. and they
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: both were playing water polo together. Essentially, Allison said that
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: the only reason they went to Baltimore in the first
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: place is for Ray to take this job at Porter's company.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: And in addition to his writing job, Rivera was also
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: an assistant coach for the men's water polo team at
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins University, which is a top university in the
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: United States. According to Ray's wife, Alison, the two of
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: them were actually planning to move back to Los Angeles,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: where Ray could pursue his dreams of screenwriting. I have
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: a question for you, Rain. Have you ever ran into
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Alison's employment?
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: No. And that's a very good question. Maybe I could
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Google it right now.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Maybe you could Google Alison Ray's wife's employment. Because It's
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: worth mentioning that Alison did work. She was actually on
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: a business trip on the same day when Ray seemingly
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: stormed out of their home. And she was working somewhere.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: At the time of his disappearance in 2026, Ray Rivera's wife,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Alison Rivera, worked for a corporate publishing company.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: So they were doing similar work.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, it seems so that way. Yeah, that's pretty much it.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: That's all I could find. You know, I'm looking at
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: their picture and Ray was 32, right?
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: When he unfortunately passed away. But looking at their pictures
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: and we're getting closer to their age at that time.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm almost there.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: They look so established. I feel like a kid looking
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: at these pictures. You know what I mean?
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: To be honest, you have a good point.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: It feels like they already have this established, serious adult life.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I still get asked for my ID if I
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: buy energy drink.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: I was playing a video game just a little earlier today.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, video games are for all ages.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: But you have a good point here. They do look
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: like they're doing... Somehow more.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he looked super stable.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to even describe it. So let's
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: keep going here. Apparently, Ray was unhappy with his job
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: as the company, as a financial newsletter writer, because the
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: stocks that he wrote about often didn't rebound as he hoped.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: I could see that. Because from all of the information
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: that we have, it seems like Ray wanted to write
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: things that he was interested in. Movies, right? Yeah. It
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: seems like he's more on the creative writing side. And
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: maybe this job is kind of like just for now.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: It feels like it could have been just... At the moment.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: At the moment job. Because he was into movies.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was into creative writing.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Because, you know, like if... There's a person who's really
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: into like picking out beat down stocks. They will love
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: this job.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: They will do their research.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: It's the dream. But Rake, it seems pretty obvious he
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: wasn't looking for this type of a job.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: A very boring look at the stocks finance kind of job.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but at the time of his death, apparently he
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: was no longer writing the newsletter. He was doing some
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: sort of video work or something for the company. So
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: I think it was a different situation at that point.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Ray's behavior became unusual in the weeks before his disappearance.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: The first interesting thing in this case that we could
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: talk about Or mentioned is the fact that the alarm
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: system in their home went off twice on separate occasions.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Do you know anything more about these alarm system incidents?
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, only that I can't remember if it was the
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: first time or the second time. But one of those times,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Ray was very freaked out. He had a baseball bat.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: He had a baseball bat prepared to defend the house?
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Do you know when exactly this happened in relation to
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: his death? Is this happening soon before he died?
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I can't remember exactly when but I believe yeah it
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: was quite soon.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Shortly before he died? Shortly yeah.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Maybe weeks before.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Is there any explanation who caused the alarm systems?
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: No apparently the police came in there was nothing. And
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: there was also an incident. I think I heard it
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: in one of the podcasts I listened to. There was
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: this incident also shortly before he died, murdered, I don't know.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: Wherein his wife wanted to go out for a run.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: It was a bit drizzling, but not a heavy kind
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: of rain. Do you know about this? No. And apparently
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Ray was very paranoid. And he did not want her
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: to leave his sight. And so he followed her in
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: the car. So she was running. And he was in
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: the car. And I think he was parked at one point.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: But there was a man, a strange man, who approached her.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: And then Ray apparently freaked out, exited the car, started
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: walking towards her. And then the man, whoever that stranger was,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: went away.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: I never heard about this. Can you give any more information?
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Because all the information I have, it was one of those,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: I think I listened to like four different podcasts, so
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: I can't really point out which one is it. Four
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: different podcasts slash documentaries, but there was an incident apparently.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: So Allison goes out.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: For a bit of a run. Yeah.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: During a rainstorm?
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Not really a rainstorm, probably a light drizzle. What we
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: have right now.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Ray told her not to go.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Not really not to go, but apparently he was quite
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: scared about it, of leaving her out of his sight.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: But she still went?
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: She still went, and Ray went with her.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Just followed her?
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Followed her with a car, I believe. And then he
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: was just chilling in a car at one point, and
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know, she got approached by a stranger. Not
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: really approached, but there was a stranger, a man, who
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: was approaching her from distance so.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Was it that Allison was running and Ray was in
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: the car somewhere near?
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Somewhere where he could see her.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: And he saw a man approach Allison in the distance?
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: So he gets out of his car.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Ran towards her.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: And then the guy walked away? Yes.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Okay. don't know i don't have any other information.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: About that and this is shortly before ray died yeah.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: And i think in one of the podcasts they were
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: talking about how the family or allison was already thinking
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: oh he's seems like there's a little bit of paranoia happening.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: There okay this is a interesting detail for sure i
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: don't know what to make of it i feel like
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: it could be maybe a situation where because you know
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: right now it sounds kind of crazy but maybe it
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: was uh maybe it made more sense for allison in
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: the moment because you know he's already paranoid oh it.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Was in between either in between the alarm systems went
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: going off or after the couple alarm systems went off
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: That would make sense, right? That would trigger paranoia in you.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So maybe someone was out to get them.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: Or it could be completely nothing. It could be there was,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know, a rabbit outside that triggered the alarm
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: or the alarm system was kind of broken. And the
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: man who was going to approach Allison was just, Someone
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: who would ask for directions could go either way.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is an interesting detail. Let's proceed. Ray went
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: missing on the evening of May 16th in 2006. This
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: was a Tuesday. Run-of-the-mill Tuesday. At this time, they had
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: a guest staying at their home who was Allison's colleague
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: by the name of Claudia. Claudia basically was... Staying in
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: one of the rooms, and I believe that Ray was
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: working in another room in his home office as Allison
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: was in Richmond, Virginia on a business trip. Richmond is
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: fairly close. You could drive there. So Claudia stated that
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: at some point, Ray receives a phone call. Actually, she
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: said it was around 4 p.m. on a Tuesday. She
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: receives a phone call, and then he says, oh, and
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: then the S word. I'm not going to say it here.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, shiz.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, shiz.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Something similar to that. And Ray runs out through the
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: back door as if he was late with some sort
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: of an assignment. Ray left in his wife's car, but...
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: As he left, he kind of came back briefly. And
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: then he went back into his home for some reason
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: and then ran out again. He left the lights and
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: the computer on in his home office.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: But nobody knows why he came back. Maybe he forgot something.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: I don't think we know why Ray came back. So
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: at the same time, Allison tried to call Ray several
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: times from Richmond. I believe several times, I don't know,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: I just think it was several times, but she could
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: not get a hold of Ray, so at 10 p.m.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: she decided to call her colleague Claudia, who was staying
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: at her home at this time, and Claudia told Allison
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: that she last heard Ray leaving the house after he
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: received that phone call where he said, oh shiz, at
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: the end of the phone call. Allison assumed that Ray
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: was out drinking that day and forgot to go back
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: home early or something, so she wasn't going to worry
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: about him, but she started to worry about him the
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: next day. His family had reported him missing at 3 p.m.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: on the following day and started searching for Ray because
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: he was now missing. Six days later, I don't know
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: who exactly found Allison's car. I think it was maybe
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: her Family members, they were driving around, and they found
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Allison's car, which, you know, Ray took as he went missing.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: And it was parked in a parking lot in the
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Mount Vernon neighborhood. This is the nice, fancy neighborhood in Baltimore,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: the same neighborhood where the Belvedere Hotel was at, and
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Stansberry's company was also there. So Ray was familiar with
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: this part of town. From the top of the adjacent
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: parking garage, I don't know who exactly found this out,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: but either co-workers or family members, they went in the garage, right,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: on the top floor, and they saw a hole. So
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: now for the people who never heard about Ray's case
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: and never really had seen the crime scenes, essentially what
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: is happening is that Belvedere Hotel is this big hotel, right?
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Many floors. And right next to it is a parking lot,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: a multiple story parking lot.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Right next to it or right in front of it?
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Right in front of it. Right in front of it.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: And in between them, there is, I think, a connection.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: And there is this connection that I think it has
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: some sort of, Belvedere Hotel facilities. So it has, I think,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: some conference rooms, ballrooms, etc. I think places that you
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: could rent for extra money if you're, you know, like
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: staying at the Belvedere or something. So what had happened
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: is that the people who found his car or someone
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: else from the circle of friends looking for Ray or co-workers,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know who, but they decided to go to
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: the top of the parking lot. And they looked down
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: and they saw a hole in the area between Belvedere
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Hotel and the parking lot. I think from the bottom
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: of this in-between platform to the top of the parking
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: lot where they were standing, I think it's 20 feet.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: But to the top of the Belvedere Hotel, it's many stories.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know how many stories, but it looks like
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: it's a high-up location. So they see a little hole
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: in there, and obviously they call the cops. Cops go investigate.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: They open the door to the conference room where the
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: hole was at. Apparently no one was using that location
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: for a long time. They open up. They see Ray
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Rivera's decomposing body, and it looks like he has been
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: dead in the conference room or whatever this location is.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: for several days and they suspect that he died on
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: the same day i believe i believe i could be
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: wrong here but i suspect that they think that ray
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: died on the same day that he went missing on
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: the 16th but it took them eight days to find
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: his body and it's interesting to me that well the
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: first thing that's interesting to me is that how did
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: no one notice that ray rivera is dead for days
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: and there's a hole in the roof in a conference
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: room no one even opened up.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: I'm actually surprised also like those men who found that
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: hole that who discovered it it's such a tiny thing
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: on top of everything that like okay if i have
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: let's say an apartment or a condominium in the hotel
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: i'm renting out or i bought one i saw that
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: tiny hole i'd be like I don't know what they
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: want to do there. But, you know, I'm just going
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: to shrug it off.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: But I guess they were already looking for Ray Rivera.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: So they already knew, like, it's weird.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So they already knew Ray Rivera was missing. So
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: maybe they wanted to go upstairs to get the vantage.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And they saw that tiny. It's tiny.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: It was a tiny hole. It was only a hole
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: where a person could only fit through vertically. It wasn't
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: a hole where a person could belly flap through it.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: You could only go in vertically. So it's a fairly
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: small hole. Authorities firmly believed that Ray Rivera had jumped
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: the 14th floor of the hotel, from the 14th floor
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: of the Belvedere Hotel. However, the coroner's autopsy stated that
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: his cause of death was undetermined. Meanwhile, his family believed
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: that it was foul play. Ray had no history of
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: mental illness or sudden shock. In his history, he has
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: not been diagnosed, I believe, with anything. On top of that,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: he had actually booked an office space for the weekend
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: during his disappearance to finish up a project, signaling that
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: there was no intent to commit self-harm. Autopsies showed that
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Ray had suffered rib fractures, broken shins, punctured lungs and
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: lacerations along with other extreme bodily injuries.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Oh, and one more thing before we continue. I just
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: remembered the CCTV camera on the top floor conveniently stopped
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: working on that day.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: That is true. They were not able to get the
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: CCTV footage.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: And the CCTV footages on other floors... There was no
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: sight of Rey, no?
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: I believe they never had any proof of Rey entering
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: the Belvedere.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: That's interesting, though.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Which is interesting because this is a big building.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it looks very fancy. And for a building
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: that pretty and that fancy, you would assume that the
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: security would be better, no? No.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: You would assume that there's at least at the front
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: entrance a camera.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: Seeing people going in and out.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: And didn't in the week... No, not Weeknight Mysteries. Unsolved Mysteries.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: We are the Weeknight Mysteries.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry. I keep on getting confused. Okay. Ray's brother
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: did mention in Unsolved Mysteries in the episode that He tried.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: He tried going up that hotel, but he wasn't successful.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: And it's like a maze inside, no?
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is true. That is what Ray's brother said,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: that he could not get in. Because apparently there were multiple,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: I guess... Areas where Ray could have jumped from, if
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: I understand correctly, but I think they focused mainly on
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: the ledges. The ledges, not on the very top of
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: the building, but on the ledges that kind of begin
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: at the start of this very pretty roof.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Like it's not on the top of the roof, but
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: it's like the ledge that's connecting the building to the
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: very nice roof.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: And it's also the hole in the roof. It's odd
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: from a vantage point of someone jumping up. Remember that? Like,
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: where would the person jump from?
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Well, they would have to run. To be honest, they
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: would have to run fast and make a big leap
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: in order to get to the point where the hole
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: was at. If I understand correctly, the hole was not
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: immediately directly below the ledge. You have to run on
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: the ledge.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: How can you run on the ledge?
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: You can. It's steep though. It's steep, but you can.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, you could definitely run on the ledge, but
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: it's an insane thing to do.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: But you could do it.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: And somehow fall.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Fall absolutely vertically.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Not belly flop or something. No. Interesting. Okay. Okay.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: Ray was athletic. He just dived. Or not necessarily dive, just,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: I think if Ray jumped, then it could be a
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: situation where he runs up and then just like straightens
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: his body and just goes down as a bullet feet first.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Like I see, I think that's a, it would be possible,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: but it's such a.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: It's kind of bizarre.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Why would you do that?
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. On a random Tuesday.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, why would Ray... He seemed like he was working.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: He was working.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: He got a phone call. So now we proceed. Retired
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: detective Michael Byer. I think he was the one on
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Netflix as well. He doubted the self-harm explanation. And he...
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: to him it looked like the scene was staged.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: I'm with you, sir.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: And what is interesting about the staging is that, well, firstly,
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: due to a technical problem, authorities were unable to retrieve
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: video footage from the highly secure building.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Convenient.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: That is very interesting.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Highly secure building? Is it still highly secure at this point?
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes you question.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: If none of the cameras work on the one day
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Ray Rivera's body.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: When they should have been working.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there was only one day in the last two
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: decades when we really need those cameras to be on.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Hey, they were working on some other days, I guess.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Maybe they haven't. The thing is, I wouldn't be immediately
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: jumping to some sort of conspiracy here. I would like
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: to know when exactly was the last time they were working.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Maybe the cameras were off
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: for the whole year.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: Maybe the top camera, the camera at the very top
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: never worked.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Maybe they never worked.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: But why call it a highly secure building? Then it's
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: not a highly secure building.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, it probably had some security guard, but the
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: camera is definitely lacking. quality uh so michael by right
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: he said it was stage why because ray sustained fatal
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: injuries during the fall however his eyeglasses and his phone
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: were found and damaged on the on top of the
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: belvedere hotel so this is this this got me messed
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: up i'm not gonna lie this particular piece of information
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: messed me up because i didn't at first understand what
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: this means. Cause if you read Wikipedia right now, I
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: think Wikipedia basically says that his eyeglasses and his phone
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: were found undamaged on top of the Belvedere hotel. So
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: I was thinking that, you know, it was somewhere on
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: the ledge before he jumped.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: And I was like, of course it's not going to
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: be damaged because he just took them off and, you know,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: potentially jumped down. So how would you damage the glasses?
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: They're going to remain intact. Yeah.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: But now it seems that he did jump with them,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: with those items and, So now I'm not sure where
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: these items were found. Were these items found in the
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: conference room where Ray was laying down? His dead body
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: was found? Or is it on the top level where
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: the hole was at? And if it was where the
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: hole is at, then how does that even work? That
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: he busts through that hole from somewhere? With this crazy speed.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: And then somehow his glasses and the phone are perfectly
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: neatly on top of that roof.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: Or like they fell from his body to the roof
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: before he smashed through the roof.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, this is another thing.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: But it's still from way high up.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the phone would definitely get messed up. There's no way.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: My company iPhone fell from my table yesterday and it cracked.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: And that's just from table.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: But the thing is, we can't really... Yeah, it's Nokia.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: It's one of those brick phones, right? Well, not brick.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Sturdy ones.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't compare these phones back in the day phones.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: But still, I'm just saying, like, from the height.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I go.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: So how come... A phone can survive what... That kind
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: of height? Completely okay. So.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Do you know where exactly the... Phone and.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: I can't remember. Because... For some reason, I thought Ray
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: was wearing those glasses and the phone was found on
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: the roof. I don't know where, I don't know why
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: I assumed that way.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: I also don't know because Wikipedia says on top of
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: the Belvedere Hotel, which is such a strange... I think
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Wikipedia is lacking in Ray's case because it's such a
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: strange way to describe Maybe you could even try to
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: pull out the information. I could see that you are
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: already trying to Google this. So let's give Rain a
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: couple more seconds. All right, Rain is back with the information.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, I have it. Ray Rivera's glasses and cell phone
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: were found resting completely intact and undamaged on the roof
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: of a lower annex, the second floor roof of the
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Baltimore's historic Belvedere Hotel. The items were scattered directly next
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: to a noticeably damaged hole in the roof through which
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: his body was discovered in a law conference room below.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: And I also googled Belvedere Hotel has 14, well, 14 floors.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: So to me, this is probably the strangest possibility that
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: his body Glasses and his phone are perfectly intact. on
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: top of the roof where the hole was at not
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: on top of the ledge but no.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah the roof next to the hole the tiny hole
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: where apparently he smashed.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: In vertically so this is very strange very.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Strange Intact and no damages, right? The phone was completely
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: okay and the glasses too.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: They're saying it wasn't damaged. For me, it might even
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: be more interesting how they appeared on that roof rather
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: than that they are undamaged. How did they not end
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: up with Ray in the conference?
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: True. And if you're going to stage it up, might
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: as well stage it up better and just smash the glasses.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. This is a weird one. This
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: is a very strange detail. Ray's phone records showed that
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: the last call that he received came from a switchboard
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: of Agora Publishing. But the identity of the caller was
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: not identified. So this is the last call where he said, oh,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: she is, and he ran out. So it was made
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: from a switchboard in Agora Publishing, not necessarily Stansbury's company.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: What is a switchboard for our audience members who are wondering?
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: So I don't really know exactly. I think it's like
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: you have a boardroom and there's this phone thingy. I'm
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: just thinking it's like that. That's a switchboard. Maybe you
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: could Google it. Maybe all my life I misunderstood what
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: a switchboard is. I know you could find it.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: I just Googled switchboard and it showed me a massive, massive.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Can you show.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: Me machine?
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Uh, let me, let me correct it. You just did switchboard.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: I don't think that.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: This is switchboard phone.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Switchboard phone call. Just take a look. Yeah. It's uh,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: I think it's what I thought it was. It's um, uh,
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: I feel like.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: It's, is it kind of like a walkie talkie?
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: No, I feel like it's one of these things.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's like a telephone.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: Like a telephone, I guess.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, where you have more buttons to press. Maybe you
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: could record voicemail, redirect someone to another department.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, probably like a business phone. So, that's where the
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: last phone call came. They were never able to establish
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: who was making that call.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: So.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Another interesting thing happened when Allison found the note. Remember,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: the note plays a big role in this case.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to lie, that note is kind of creepy.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: The note. The note included names of prominent figures in
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: Hollywood movie titles, Freemasonry quotations, and additional ramblings. FBI said
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: it was not a self-harm note.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: What was written there? There's a particular line that's kind
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: of odd.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: So the note was written in small print, it was
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: folded up in plastic, and it was taped in his
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: home computer screen along with a blank check. The note
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: was addressed to brothers and sisters and referred to a
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: well-played game. The note also named famous people who had died,
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: including Christopher Reeve and Stanley Kubrick, as well as ordinary
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: people who were very new in real life. The note
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: included a request to make them and himself five years younger.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: The finding was so puzzling that investigators sent the letter
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: to the FBI to determine if it was a self-harm note.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: The note pointed to another weird detail, Ray's growing interest
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: in Freemasons. The note he left behind began and ended
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: with phrases used in the Masonic order. A representative at
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: the local Maryland lodge. A lodge is basically where a
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: local Freemason club, basically. They just call it a lodge.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: A representative at the local Maryland Freemason lodge confirmed that
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: Ray inquired about joining... the freemason lodge on the same
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: day that he went missing but didn't recall anything unusual
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: about their conversation shortly before his death ray was also
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: reading books related to freemasons such as the builders so
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: we have this very strange note and i believe that
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: this note is available For us to read. I would
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: like to take a look real quick. If we have
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: the note. Have you seen the. Have you read the note?
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: Not all of it. Just. I know that. His friend's
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: name were there. Like most of the people he know.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: There are some. Names that weren't there. In particular. I
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: don't know why. But I find that particular detail creepy.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: Really creepy. Because what if you're just casual friends with
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: this guy? And then you find your name there.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I was googling the note and I found something
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: very interesting. I'm going to show you this picture right now.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Is it the people decoding the note? Yeah.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: Tell me if you've seen this picture. This is the note.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to put this on the YouTube channel.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: This is crazy. I didn't see this.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: You've seen this.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: Like, the way that the paragraphs were arranged, it seems
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: like one page is arranged in a way that's letter
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: H and the next page is kind of like letter
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: E in the way the sentences were formed. And it
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: basically seems like all those four pages allegedly kind of
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: looks like.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: The word help. The word help. You could make out
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: the word help from the paragraphs. I see some comment
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: here on Reddit. I don't think there's anything to decode.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: I think there are three options. One, the note is
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: a coded message or some kind of complex clue to
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: a bigger conspiracy. Two, the note is a tone map
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: for a screenplay, as others have pointed out. And three,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: The note is a stream of consciousness from a paranoid,
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: delusional person having a mental break. Given the elaborate steps
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: he took to hide it and the circumstances that occurred
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: the day he wrote it ending in his death, I
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: think option 3 is most likely for this person. Personally,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: he thinks it's option 3 that Ray Rivera was having
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: a mental break. I will also mention this thing. Remember
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: on the Unsolved Mysteries Netflix episode, Allison said that she
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: knows that Ray had written this note on the day
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: when he died, on the day when he left the house.
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because the scraps were in the trash bin.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because the scraps of the paper are also here.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: So this is very crazy. But I'm thinking, is the note...
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: somewhere um very rare note text i want to specifically
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: see the text because i feel like it's very.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Uh oh there was a line there that was kind
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: of creepy like um what i stand before you a
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: man who understands the purpose and value of our secrets
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: that's why i cherish them as secrets okay and then
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: brothers and sisters right now around the world volcanoes are
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: erupting what an awesome sight and the next line whom
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: virtue unites, death cannot separate. And when you Google, apparently
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: this is what the line Allison Googled, right? Or searched for.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: It is a bizarre note, apparently. Give me a quick.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: And according to Google, whom virtue unites, death cannot separate,
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: is an English translation of a Latin phrase... It is
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: the official motto of a Scottish Rite of Free Masonry.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: The phrase represents an unbreakable eternal bond among members based
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: on shared morality, brotherhood, and virtue. What does that mean?
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Why is it there?
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: I found Reddit thread. which says six years ago. It
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: was posted on the Unsolved Mysteries Reddit thread. It says,
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: I wrote out Ray Rivera's note as accurately as I could.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: After much research and digging, I am fully convinced the
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: following note is the result of a psychotic break or
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: schizophrenic rambling. In the comments below, I will post Ray
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: Rivera's apparent self-harm note. It seems as though no one
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: has released images of the note itself, yet for some reason,
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: I think his wife is holding it and refusing to
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: publish it from what I understand. I tried to write
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: it as accurately as I could using all the same
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: exact spacing, punctuation, spelling, capitalization, and errors. that Ray wrote
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: in his note. The areas with question marks, blah, blah, blah.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: Let's see what the note says. Brothers and sisters, right
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: now around the world, volcanoes are erupting. What an awesome sight.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: Where to? That was a well-played game. Congratulations to all
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: who participated. I hope you enjoyed it. But it was
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: time to wake up, so here I am. I'd like
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: to welcome those who accepted our invitations for membership during
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: the game. We couldn't have done it without you. I
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: look on this endeavor to find the truth, but for
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: its own sake, in accepting this quest for the truth,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: I hoped to awake myself with the help of others
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: into a man ready and worthy to receive it. Members
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: of the council, please note that I will lead peaceful
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: concentration to the traditional responsibilities in light of these proceedings
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: and i will sadly uh the standard request of the
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: council within the appropriate time again well done all to
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: to who participated i accept the council has invited all
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: the players who gave their lives to this pursuit back
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: so they might join us farewell rob uh Before I
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: continue with my instructions for the council and dates, I'd
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: like to allow Porter Stansberry to choose his prize. Now,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: Porter won't evase words by claiming something else. Okay. Apparently,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: it's hard to understand. He mentions Porter Stansberry. Now that
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: the game is finished, I expect the council to recompense
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: those who have given and to this venture. Along with myself,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: those players should be made five years younger by the council. Rivera,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: Allison Jones, Selena, some other Rivera, some maybe brother, Angel Rivera,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: the dad, Angel Rivera brother, Brad Hogg, Some other guy,
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: Porter Stansberry, he didn't do it himself. Brothers and sisters,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: our land of achievement has seen many ideas become new
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: innovations since my game had begun. Radio frequency, identification, digital
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: music player, the human genome, genetic engineering, the Ford cell,
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: overnight express shipping, Wi-Fi, Internet, Ethernet, MPEG, JPEG, MP3, AFF, Invisalign.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: He even mentions Invisalign, and he had Invisalign.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: The rights, patents, and proceeds for all of them should
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: be transferred to me by now. I know that our
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: be something Porter Stansbury has created a way for you
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: to do so. He mentions Porter Stansbury a lot in
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: this note. My primary residence, which includes a beautiful piece
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: of property in northern Argentina, I am told... Pigged Mansion,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: Buenos Aires. Well done, Porter. In Europe, you can't visit
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: me at the flat in Venice or Madrid, although if
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: I'm in Spain, I'll probably be at the OB. In Asia,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: you will be able to find me in Thailand. Another
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: job well done, Porter. I will keep the bad houses
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: in Las Feliz, California. One house in San Francisco, although...
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: I'll be looking for a new place in Baltimore and
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: perhaps some other cities. I'd like to briefly mention some movies, books,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: and music I found very inspired and compelling. I'd like
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: to meet any of you who helped contribute to these works.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: He says, The Matrix, One, Two, and Three, The Family Man,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: National Treasure, Da Vinci Code, Eyes Wide Shut, Confessions on
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: the Dance Floor, Demon Days, Ten, November Rain, Horse, Home
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: by Now, Meet Joe Black, Minority Report, Star Wars 123,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings 123, Fight Club 7, The Game, Payback,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: and especially, let me say that I expect M. Night
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: Shyamalan to continue coming up with great ideas and great movies.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: I certainly enjoyed his movies, The Sixth Sense, The Village,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: The Other Sign, Unforgettable, and I think that's it. I
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: think there's a.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: I think that's it. So this is the note.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of different topics that I understand and
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: I don't understand. Feels like a random rambling at one point.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess to me it seems that he is
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: writing obviously that there's some sort of a... What they're
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: saying is that this could be about the Freemasons. That
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: he is uncovering that he is part of the Freemasons.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: What even is a Freemason?
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: It's like the society around the world. Yeah, it's good.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: But it kind of has a ton of people, though.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: What do they do? I don't know. I think they
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: just hang out and do some activities.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: But they're not dangerous, right?
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. I don't know anything about them.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: But it's not like there's only 10 of them. Like
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: in the UK... On Wikipedia, I read that there's close
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: to 200 Freemasons. So it's not like, you know, it's
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: like a small country of Freemasons out there. So I
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: don't think it's super exclusive.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's like a fraternity.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You never heard about the Freemasons?
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: I heard about them, but I don't know much about them.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: Freemasons belong to the world's oldest and largest fraternal organization.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: They gather to socialize, raise money for charities, discuss moral philosophy,
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: perform symbolic rituals that teach self-improvement, brotherly love, and personal integrity.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: So it's.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: Just kind of like a club. There's conspiracy theories surrounding them.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to just leave it at that. I
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: don't know much about Freemasons. I was never really too curious.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: But it does seem like there's a lot of them.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: Not just, you know, a thousand. I think the UK
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: Freemason Lodge in London, if I remember correctly, has close
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: to 200,000 members. So it's... Oh my gosh.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: It's massive.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: It's like a small country. So it's not even super exclusive. Like,
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: it's nothing too special.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: In my opinion. So I feel like Ray Rivera felt
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: like he was uncovering something.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: Or maybe he wanted to be part of the Freemasons.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And also the movies that he listed down. I've
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: seen a good portion of these movies. Not all of
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: them are conspiratorial. But some of them are. Like Minority Report.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: I didn't see it. I just read the description of it.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: It's like Tom Cruise uncovering that his... girlfriend is part
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: of some cult or something like that in New York
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: or something. Then he mentions... The Village. The Village. We've
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: seen The Village. It's like this kind of conspiracy thing
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: happening down there. He also mentions The Matrix movies. We've
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: seen The Matrix.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: He also mentioned Lord of the Rings 1, 2, 3.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: So what's that?
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings, yeah. It's not very conspiratorial to me.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to lie. It's kind of fantasy in
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: my opinion.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: Maybe he just listed down the movies he likes.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: He just listed them. But most of those movies are
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: very like... Where the main character is.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: Uncovering some secret.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: Uncovering something. Like Seven. Seven was a movie.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: Never seen that.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: Seven is a really great movie. It's about... I think
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: Brad Pitt. He's a detective. And he's like... You know,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: I think it ends very dramatically with him uncovering some
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: dark things. So I remember Seven.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: And.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the team is similar.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: He mentioned that the horror producer forgot his name.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: Not the horror producer, Shalamayan or whatever.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: Isn't he a horror movie guy?
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: I don't think he's a horror movie guy. He's just
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: a suspense plot twist guy, if I remember correctly. Okay,
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: so we talked about the crazy... note that Ray left
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: and to be honest my notes are kinda scattered now
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: let me quickly take a.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: Look I must say though I couldn't quite understand what
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: that note is for it's definitely not like the S
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: note doesn't seem like it but why is it folded
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: up in a way like he's trying to hide it
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: and behind his monitor yeah Why? What does that mean?
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: Is it like... Because it's folded in a way that
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: it feels like it's not like screenwriting, you know, like
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: not an inspiration. Because if it is, then he would
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: just maybe put it in a book or... But it
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: seems like he was trying to hide it from Allison
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: or from other people. But the notes don't make sense.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: And he wrote it on the same day.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And it was printed.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: In small print. And you could even maybe see help.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do not really understand it. Because some people
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: claim that it could be just an inspiration for screenwriting.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: But if that's the case, then why hide it? Why
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: fold it in such a manner that someone has to
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: discover it? What does that mean?
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, to me, everything that we're reading right now
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: To me, I'm thinking that something... And I'm trying to
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: be very open to all possibilities here, but I just
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: keep coming back to the something is not right with
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: Ray's mind right now. What do you think?
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: I'm leaning more towards the someone was after him.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: Someone was after Ray? But what about the note then?
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: Him. Probably uncovered something.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: And the note explains what he uncovered?
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: No. Probably... I don't know.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: The note is just something weird that he's doing. Randomly.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Or maybe it's part of what he wanted to
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: discover more. Maybe he's doing this research. Maybe he wants
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: to write something about the Freemasons. But in order to
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: fully join the Freemasons, he has to do something weird?
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: Something weird? Something weird? Maybe it's like an initiation ritual?
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know about that. I don't know how to
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: join Freemasons.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: Maybe someone in the.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: Because he did mention like a bunch of names of
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: people he knows that could join.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he keeps mentioning Porter though.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So what does that mean?
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: He's writing about how he will have a million different
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: homes around the world.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: It feels like he's trying to pitch himself to something.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: The Freemasons to accept him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: we agree with that. So now if I'm going to
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: go back to my neutral quick, let's see if we
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: have something here. Ray's case was featured on Netflix. We
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: already talked about it. No one really saw Ray on
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: top of the Belvedere Hotel. And he was also apparently
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: afraid of heights. Another reason why no one thinks that
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: he would have jumped. Because he was scared of heights.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: And so now I went digging a little bit more.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: And there was this lady who wrote the book.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: Remember?
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. So the lady that wrote the book, she said
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: that the roof was actually easy to access.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know how, but she said it was easy
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: to access. Also, there is information that Porter Stansberry actually
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: met with police. I think according to the book. I
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: can't really verify this, but... Because on the Netflix episode,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: Allison said that Porter stopped talking to the police. But
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: now we have conflicting information that Porter actually spoke to
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: the police in June of 2006, which happened shortly after
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: Ray was found dead. Apparently, Porter Stanberry also hired a
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: private investigator and offered a reward to And he apparently
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: did not tell his employees to not talk to the media.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: And he also said that no one from his company
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: could have called Ray on the switchboard that day because
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: they were all at the company retreat. He also said
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: that Ray had asked him if he was part of
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: the Freemasons' leadership, which Porter said, He thought that, you know,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: Ray was actually just joking. And Porter also said that
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: Ray's wife, Allison, had told him that Ray's behavior had
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: gotten pretty bad and that he had not gotten out
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: of bed the whole Saturday leading up to his death,
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: which was two days before he died. and that Allison
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: was worried about his mental state. However, Allison said that
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: she doesn't remember saying this to Porter, only that she
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: mentioned that Ray was feeling anxious. We have another person
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: that chimed in here. Apparently, a childhood friend of Ray's
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: by the name of Brad... Have you heard about Brad?
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: A childhood friend named Brad.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: Said that Ray kept asking him if he was part
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: of the Freemasons and he kept talking about the movie
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: Eyes Wide Shut. I think this is the, I think, sorry,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: I must have confused it. Eyes Wide Shut is the
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: movie where this guy, Tom, what is Mr. Impossible, Tom Cruise,
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: Tom Cruise, Mr. Impossible, what?
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: There's so many Toms in the industry. I had to.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: There were so many Toms that popped into my head.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for me too. So Tom Cruise is finding out
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: that his girlfriend is part of some cult. So he
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: kept mentioning this movie to Brad and kept asking him
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: if he was part of the Freemasons. Brad also said
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: that a few weeks before Ray's death, only a few
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: weeks before Ray had died, Ray asked him if he
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: can visit a top floor of an apartment in Jersey City,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: New Jersey, that he owned. Ray took the keys from Brad,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: but apparently he returned them later and he didn't go
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: to the high grounds. And Brad described Ray's behavior as really,
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: really weird. This is a childhood friend. Apparently, Ray made
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: notes and left them in various places on a regular basis,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: which could explain the notes a little bit better. Apparently,
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: leaving notes was a common thing that Ray did. And
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: I went online. A little bit, I went on Reddit,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: and this was very compelling. Let me read one comment, okay,
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: from this one specifically. This is a person who read
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: the book on Reddit. This is KodoWD11, who wrote on
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: Reddit this comment three months ago. The book sheds light
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: on facts that are pertinent to the case. Ray incurred
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: a huge amount of debt. attempting to launch his own
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: video production company immediately before he died, including maxing out
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: his wife's line of credit, which she approved. At the
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: time of his death, he was no longer employed at
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: Stansberry and Associates. Rather, he was working on several large
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: video production contracts, one of which was with Stansberry. He
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: was under an incredibly tight deadline and was nowhere near
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: completing the project. In the book, We also learn that
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: Ray had been to the rooftop of the Belvedere Hotel
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: before with his wife to watch the sunset for an event.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: As a creative who works under regular deadlines, I know
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: that stress that Ray was under. Ray was at the
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: literal end of his rope. If he failed to complete
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: these projects on time, he and his wife would be ruined.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: There are many unanswered questions in his case. But unsolved
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: mysteries did not show just how deep in the trenches
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: Ray was. My gut leans towards a psychotic break due
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: to extreme stress and overwhelmment. He went somewhere he and
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: his wife had been happy, then made an impulsive decision. However,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: I will never claim with 100% certainty this was self-harm.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: In any case, where we don't have the whole picture,
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: it's irresponsible to state with certainty how events unfolded. Definitely
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: read the book. The book is called An Unexplained Death,
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: The True Story of the Body at the Belvedere. So
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: that's the book. And what do you think about that?
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: So specifically, specifically that and that he was at the
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: rooftop before. This is kind of crazy.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: None of this is mentioned on Netflix, by the way.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: No debt.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: What about on Wikipedia?
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: Nothing. Nothing on Wikipedia. Nothing on... on, to be honest,
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: nothing anywhere. So I'm not even sure if this is
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: credible information, but nowhere on Netflix have we ever heard
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: debt or the fact that Ray had been to the
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: rooftop of the Belvedere before. So if this is real...
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: then this paints a different picture. We just have to
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: be honest.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: I agree with that.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: It paints a different picture. But I guess a new
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: book for us to read now.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: We have two now. Silkman and this book.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: The Unexplained Death, the true story of the body at
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: the Belvedere, actually sounds like a very good book.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: We might need to read this thing.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely. Um....
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: I kind of ran out.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: What about Porter? Maybe you have any other information about Porter?
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: Porter Stansbury?
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: I actually went online googling Porter Stansbury. Porter Stansbury is
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: still an active financial commentator.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: But you mentioned to me yesterday that he was caught
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: with fraud?
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: If I remember correctly.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: He was caught with alleged fraud and he was... He
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: was supposed to pay $ 1. 5 million, I believe, to his
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: newspaper audience because he was giving an insider tip in
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: one of the newspapers that there is, I believe, a
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: Russian company or an American company. I think it was
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: an American company that was about to score a really
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: big deal with Russia in terms of... I think taking
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: out Russian nuclear weapons or something and dissolving them or
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: like somehow getting rid of the nuclear weapons. I think
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: this was the time in history when there was nuclear destruction.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: So whatever that word is.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the relationships between Russia and the West was
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: different than it is right now. So during those times,
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: there was a tip that Stansberry produced that there was
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: a company that is about to score a big government
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: contract in Russia to help out with the nuclear disarmament,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: something like that. And it was proven to be a
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: false tip. That information never panned out. And the investors
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: that bought up the company, they sued Stansberry for giving
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: them a bad tip. Stansberry was certain that he said that, no,
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: I was given this information by an employee of the company.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: It was a real tip. Mm-hmm. But at the end
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: of the day, they found him guilty. They found that
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: Stansbury was lying, and this was not real information. I
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: don't know what Porter Stansbury's position is about that particular
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: incident now. Probably he doesn't want to even talk about
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: it anymore, maybe. I don't know. Maybe he has an
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: explanation now. Now, what Porter does, he is a financial commentator.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: He's offering investment advice through his company. And I think
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: it looks like they're very serious in investment advisory.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: Is it a successful company?
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: I would say it looks successful because on their website,
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: they have conference calls. It's one of those... Like you
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: pay them money, but they teach you how to invest
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: type of business setup. And I think they're doing good there.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: So he doesn't look to be a killer or in prison.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: Would you say he seems like a shady guy? In general,
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: in the grand scheme of things.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: To me, honestly, I don't think he's super shady, in
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: my opinion. I think he's just a very good... businessman
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: that does very good business wasn't.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: The ray's family upset that porter in the week in
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: the unsolved mystery spot.
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: They were upset yeah they were they were upset that porter.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: If they're not speaking out that.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: But for me you could see why i could maybe
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: see why you.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: Know protect the company but i read somewhere that he
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: actually did.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: Well they were complaining that you know he was of
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: very wealthy man and he was offering a very little
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: reward money so they were saying oh you're only giving
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: out like five thousand or something when you're a millionaire
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: and also there were claims that he wasn't talking to
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: the cops and wasn't helping at all so i don't
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: know really what happened but from my research the surface
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: level research says that porter is not a Well, he is,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: I guess, a criminal. He did potentially lie, allegedly lied
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: to his listeners back in the day, but he looks
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: to be a free man right now. You could find
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: him on YouTube videos. And speaking about this, last thing
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: I want to touch upon in the race case, and
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: this is the one thing I kind of wanted to say, Because,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: you know, this podcast, I'm pretty sure we're kind of
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: doing a long one by now. But there was another
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: Reddit comment. But this is on the unsolved mysteries.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: Sorry, just a quick break. Really funny. I heard our
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: neighbor leaving when we started doing the podcast. And I
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: just heard her keys. Like, she's back.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: She's back.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: It's been quite a long podcast.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been a long podcast. It's a whole grocery run.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: And probably a dog walk.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So now if we're going to go on the
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: other side of the theories here, on the more conspiracy.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: So basically this was posted on the Unsolved Mysteries Reddit thread.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: So these are the people that are big fans of
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: the Unsolved Mysteries two years ago. I don't think it
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: was self-harm. The autopsy said otherwise. Put his sandals on. Sorry,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: plus his sandals had the dragged marks on them. Sounds
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: like someone dragged Ray. My theory. He's a writer, a
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: writer investigating. He found something from his friend's company. Ray
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: thought he could talk to his friend Porter, but Porter
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: freaked out and called someone powerful within the company. Okay,
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: so this guy is saying that Ray found out Something
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: about Porter's company. Something bad. That Porter is now going
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: to get hit. Those people or just Porter. Made sure
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: cameras were not on. In the Belvedere. And knew which
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: blind spots to use. When people were walking around. This
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: could have been planned weeks ahead. Porter or someone powerful
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: in the company called Ray. To his surprise. To his
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: surprise says.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: Runs out they so basically someone calls ray and oh
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: okay okay i'll be right there and then they tell
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: ray by phone where to go and park gave instructions
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: to meet at the hotel and how to enter the
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: rooftop without detection i don't know why ray would be
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: going to the rooftop at this point but okay because
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: this looks like he's walking into some wild crap they
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: speak to ray about what he knows Knowing Ray wanted
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: to do good and let the story out, they panicked
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: and chased him, dragged him by the edge. Sandals had
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: drag marks, remember? They broke his shins and picked him up.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: If there was a group, think of a pallbearer holding
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: a coffin, each person on its side swung him out
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: of the roof. They either initially left his glasses and
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: phone on the ground or fell out during the shuffle.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: The meeting is right next to Ray's job. That's not
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: a coincidence. Gag order in place to the Ray Ward
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: building shortly after his death. The detective or whoever helping
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: to solve the problem is suddenly removed from the case
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: without questions. Possibly the company Ray worked for paid off
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: some crooked cops to have major or have major connections
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: throughout the justice system in all honesty if this was
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: self-harm then why are people refusing to talk about what
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: they know why are detectives removed from the case when
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: they're asked questions normally if this was self-harm it would
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: be laid to rest why go to all this hiding
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: and removing if it was just that to me that
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: raises more suspicion that there's more to what law enforcement's
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: leading We have to remember there are good cops and
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: bad cops. So this was, to be honest, this is
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: a top comment on the case. in the Unsolved Mysteries.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: This is not a random person. This is the sentiment
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: that Unsolved Mysteries Reddit thread has right now. What do
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: you think about this theory? This is the real sentiment.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: This is not one person. This is highly upvoted.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know. do you think about it.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: For me it sounds like it's a stretch.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's what I was supposed to say.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: To me it sounds like this theory is a stretch
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: and like well the holes that they have is that
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: first of all what exactly did Ray discover about Porter's
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: company that somehow Porter was selling bad tips but.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: He was also writing down.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: Tips that didn't pan out.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: But no, it's okay if your tip doesn't pan out,
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: but you didn't break the law, then it's okay. So
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: maybe Ray got some secret file or secret information that...
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: Because what is Stansberry doing? Stansberry is selling investment advice,
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: as I understand, back in the day. So they're selling
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: fake advice, fake tips, because they're not actually taking the money.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: They're not.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think they ran a Ponzi scheme like Bernie Madoff.
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: They didn't really, you know, like did a Ponzi scheme.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: They were selling advice, if I remember correctly. So if
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: Porter is selling advice, what is the damage? What is
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: the secret information? That Porter is selling bad tips on purpose.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: Ray uncovers this and now Porter wants to kill Ray.
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: So that no one would find out that he's selling
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: bad tips. He already sold one bad tip that he
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: got charged with. Maybe there were more.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: But aren't they best friends? Probably easier to pay off
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: someone didn't do this whole thing of killing.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: But there could be a chance where Porter is trying to...
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: He's a bad person. He just wants to kill Raid
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: to silence him.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: Hey, maybe. Maybe. I wouldn't brush it off completely. Maybe
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: it's the truth.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: Then my other problem is that how is Porter Stansbury,
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: a owner of a financial advice company who is wealthy,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: how does he have access to remove cops? How does
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: he have access to hitmen that will help him kill
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: ray he's rich why are they on the rooftop breaking
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: ray's shins on a very public and notable building i mean.
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: There wasn't any evidence that were found around the area
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: that if ray was beaten up then it was there
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: okay so there could be a possibility that he was
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: beaten up somewhere else and transported there no.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, just to kind of, in one way, that if
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: I was going to refute this theory, the only way
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: I could say it is that if this was the case,
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: then Porter Stansbury is Tony Soprano. He's like.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: Pulling so many different strings.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like the craziest mob boss of the biggest
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: mob guy ever.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: I would say, though, that I am more convinced that
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: it was slightly on the criminal side rather than self-harm.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: Still?
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know who. It could be Porter. I
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: don't have any opinion about it. I can't make it out.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: It could be... You mentioned earlier that Ray could have
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: been in debt.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: Maybe loan sharks. Okay.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: Depends on where he took the loan from, yeah.
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If it's, I don't know, a desperate situation.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: Mainly because it was an ordinary day. He was working.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: And then he had a phone call. He said, oh, shush.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: Ran out. Went back. Ran out again. I don't know,
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: maybe he forgot something. Yeah. And then, next thing you know,
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: next thing we know, there was a small hole on
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: the second floor roof. His phone and glasses were completely
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: not smashed at all. No damages on the roof of it.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: And somehow, he's completely smashed up under it.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: That is the one weird detail that I have no explanation.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: Right? It doesn't make sense. And even the... Who are
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: those people? Some police said that the injuries don't match,
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: don't add up. And also, the flip-flops... There were drag
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: marks and the strap was broken. In my experience, the flip-flops,
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: you know, the straps would get broken if you ran
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: too fast or, I don't know, it would just pop
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: off if you were dragged, I guess. Not when you're
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: falling down a 14-floor building.
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: Valid points, I would say.
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: As a kid, I would used to ruin my flip-flops
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: by running too much and.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: The strap would just I feel like if that was
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: the case, then, you know, if Ray jumped, he had
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: to run a bit on the ledge.
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And also the fact that conveniently no CCTV cameras
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: caught him and the one that was supposed to be
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: working was not working. It just feels like too much
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: of a coincidence on such a normal day. Does it
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: make sense?
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: You know, if we ever go to America one day,
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: I feel like we need to go to the Belvedere Hotel.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, I would love to. I would love to see it.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: I would love to go there. Baltimore Belvedere Hotel is
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: probably now on the list of one day maybe to do.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: Because this sounds really fascinating, to be honest. I would
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: love to go to the hotel.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: You know, I would love to go if this podcast
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: ever blows up. I would love to go to... Places
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: where the cases that we talk about happened. Not completely.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: Just for a quick visit. And we could redo the
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 2: cases to have a clearer picture.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: If we were in America, this would be way easier.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: Because most of the stuff is American. But okay. I
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: get what you're saying. So I think it's been a
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: long podcast. I feel like... Wait, let us know what
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: you think.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: Me? Yeah. Do you think it was... self-harm on a
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: seemingly random Tuesday, midday? Or do you think there's something
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: here that it's tough to uncover?
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: So for me, so far into my research, I'm leaning
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: towards that this could have been a mental break. That
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: it was an initial mental break that maybe Ray was...
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: having and then he he didn't really know what was
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: he what was he doing because the note that he
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: wrote on the same day that he left the fact
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: that he called to enroll into Freemasons on the same
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: day that he left to me it seems that it's
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: more likely than Porter Stansbury organizing this.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah or like some people or.
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: Some other people organizing to kill Ray Because Ray just,
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: he was writing, he wasn't even writing the newsletter anymore.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: He was doing production work, right?
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: He was in debt though.
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: He was in debt, yeah. But I think it was
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: legal debt. It was the wife's credit card. So I
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: feel like he was in regular legal debt.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: So I think to me it just seems like the
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: only thing that really is interesting to me is the
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: glasses and the phone. clue those things I really don't
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: understand but other than that one particular detail I feel
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: like everything is explainable I guess his shin injury was
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: also not correlating with a fall from that distance apparently
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: something about his shins didn't add up to the corner
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: but I cannot comment on that everything else to me
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: to me personally, and this is just my opinion, would
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: kind of look like some sort of a psychosis moment, potentially, unfortunately.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know what happened and I'm open to all possibilities.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: What do you think?
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still leaning more towards the fact that someone
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 2: did this to him.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: That's interesting.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. It's good to have different opinions.
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. I was thinking that what are the main things
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: that make you think this way?
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: The shins and the fact that it's more correlated to
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: the flip-flops getting ruined, the phone, the glasses, and the
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: fact that it was a normal, normal day until he
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: got that phone call and drove off.
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: Because that is true. Because Claudia didn't really say that
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: he was acting crazy.
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think she even have any comments about
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 2: that date. It seems like just a regular run-of-the-mill date.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: until the phone call.
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: You know what? I feel like if we ever talk
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: about this, we have to dig into the book. I
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: think the book might change.
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: And I also kind of want to dig in more
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: to Porter and the Freemasons. I'm not saying Porter did it.
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying it. I'm just interested.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that. Well, this was a good
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: long podcast. I feel like let's wrap it up. If
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: anyone is still listening to this thing, thank you very much.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: Thank you. We're listening until the very end.
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Thank you, guys. I don't know why you're still here.
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: Seriously.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: Should have stopped listening to us like a long time ago.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: Probably doing some home chores.
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: Maybe. So I hope you guys enjoyed. Leave your thoughts below.
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: Leave your comments about what we can do better with
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: the podcast. Leave a comment with your case suggestions if
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: you want something for us to take a look at.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: And if someone's still listening, we apologize for the baklava incident.
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, the last time.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: That wasn't funny.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: I confused the balakvala. What is it?
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, man. I don't know. It's a ski mask.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: Ski mask. I call the ski mask a baklava.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: A Turkish dessert.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or some sort of a dessert.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: It's a tasty dessert.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: It's a good food, but yeah, so sorry about that one.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: That's so funny.
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but we need to really wrap it up. Thank you, guys.
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: And we will talk to you soon.
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: Bye. Be safe.