Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Jim Andrews on Leadership, Perspective, and Purpose in Healthcare

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Jim Andrews on Leadership, Perspective, and Purpose in Healthcare · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

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  - Welcome to this episode of Leadership Unscripted, a
• 1:00
  - Becker's Healthcare podcast. I'm Chris Sosa, your host.
• 1:03
  - And I'm thrilled to be joined today by
• 1:04
  - Jim Andrews. He, of course, is president and
• 1:06
  - CEO of Deborah Heart and Lung Center in
• 1:09
  - New Jersey.
• 1:10
  - Jim, thank you for joining us today. Thank
• 1:12
  - you very much, Chris. I appreciate being here.
• 1:14
  - Fantastic. Yes. Of course. Leadership Unscripted.
• 1:18
  - This is a podcast where you where we
• 1:19
  - talk about leaders' health care journals and all
• 1:21
  - that is important to them as far as
• 1:23
  - that's concerned. So, Jim, before we dive into
• 1:25
  - that, though, could you please, introduce yourself a
• 1:28
  - little more a little more in-depth to our
• 1:30
  - audience and tell us about, Deborah in general?
• 1:33
  - Certainly. So,
• 1:34
  - Jim Andrews, president and CEO of Deborah Heart
• 1:37
  - and Lung Center.
• 1:38
  - Been working here for
• 1:40
  - two years now,
• 1:41
  - and
• 1:43
  - very happy and pleased to work here at
• 1:45
  - Deborah Heart and Lung Center.
• 1:47
  - Deborah is a 104 year old organization. It's
• 1:50
  - a specialty
• 1:52
  - heart, lung, and vascular hospital,
• 1:55
  - which is independent.
• 1:57
  - We are located in Southern New Jersey, and
• 1:59
  - we've been operating at
• 2:02
  - a mission that it think is critical in
• 2:04
  - health care today,
• 2:06
  - and it's to ensure that all of our
• 2:08
  - patients are cared for physically, emotionally, and financially,
• 2:12
  - and we support them in all three elements
• 2:14
  - of their care journey.
• 2:16
  - We've got amazing quality outcomes of some of
• 2:18
  - the best in the state of New Jersey,
• 2:20
  - some of the best in the country,
• 2:22
  - and we really dedicate everything that we can
• 2:25
  - at the center to ensuring that people live
• 2:28
  - healthy heart, lung, and and vascular lives.
• 2:32
  - Jim, thank you for mentioning in particular
• 2:34
  - the elements of the care journey
• 2:36
  - that Deborah makes sure to
• 2:39
  - that uses as part of its mission, you
• 2:41
  - know, to care for its patients.
• 2:43
  - With that in mind, we wanna talk about
• 2:45
  - your journey, of course, as we mentioned up
• 2:46
  - top. So
• 2:48
  - as far as that's concerned, my first question
• 2:49
  - is, what is something that you learned
• 2:51
  - outside of health care that you've applied to
• 2:53
  - your career?
• 2:55
  - I mean, I think
• 2:56
  - the the most important thing, which is the
• 2:59
  - the one that is probably truest to
• 3:01
  - everyone in health care is the the golden
• 3:04
  - rule.
• 3:05
  - Treat others as you would wanna be treated.
• 3:08
  - Tenth grade, shout out to miss Sylvia.
• 3:11
  - We all had to read Dale Carnegie's How
• 3:13
  - to Win Friends and Influence People. And the
• 3:15
  - the biggest takeaway I had from that was
• 3:18
  - the golden rule and making sure that whatever
• 3:21
  - I was doing in life, it was reflective
• 3:24
  - of
• 3:25
  - that moral code and just to
• 3:28
  - care for people in a way in which
• 3:30
  - I would
• 3:31
  - wanna be cared for myself.
• 3:33
  - I think that rule, that Acxiom
• 3:35
  - is what brings people into health care
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  - in the first place. So we have a
• 3:40
  - nice little cohort in health care
• 3:42
  - of people that subscribe to
• 3:45
  - that general philosophy, and I think it's incumbent
• 3:47
  - upon all of us and certainly everyone here
• 3:50
  - at Deborah,
• 3:51
  - to make sure that
• 3:53
  - that that golden rule stays in health care.
• 3:55
  - And now everyone is looked at with kindness
• 3:58
  - and empathy and compassion,
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  - not just a a number on a balance
• 4:03
  - sheet or
• 4:04
  - as a a cog in a wheel. You
• 4:06
  - wanna prioritize
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  - the individual. So I found that early in
• 4:10
  - life and carry it with me now.
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  - That's an excellent outlook to have, especially in
• 4:15
  - health care, Jim. Do you still have that
• 4:16
  - book on your on your shelf, by the
• 4:18
  - way? I do. No. At home. I I
• 4:20
  - don't bring it into the office, but,
• 4:23
  - it's usually a a podcast or, you know,
• 4:26
  - book on tape that I'll I'll listen to
• 4:28
  - commuting every couple of years
• 4:30
  - just to remind myself a lot of lessons.
• 4:32
  - The the references get a little bit dated.
• 4:35
  - That's true. We start talking about Abraham Lincoln
• 4:37
  - these days, but, the moral of the story
• 4:40
  - is is always true. So definitely encourage anyone
• 4:43
  - that hasn't exposed themselves to it to to
• 4:46
  - have a listen.
• 4:48
  - Definitely. Definitely.
• 4:49
  - So, Jim, you mentioned that the care journey
• 4:52
  - is not just one dimensional.
• 4:54
  - So with that in mind, my next question
• 4:56
  - is simply, how do you keep yourself healthy,
• 4:58
  - and that's physically, emotionally, mentally,
• 5:01
  - and however you wanna define it? Starting with
• 5:03
  - those three, though. Yeah. I mean, those those
• 5:06
  - are the the big three.
• 5:08
  - Physically,
• 5:09
  - I'd say it helps to be married to
• 5:12
  - a vegan.
• 5:13
  - So I I'd say I'm vegan adjacent.
• 5:16
  - If I'm adjacent to my wife, I am
• 5:18
  - vegan. We keep a vegan house.
• 5:20
  - So I have a pretty well balanced,
• 5:23
  - diet.
• 5:24
  - We my wife and I also do yoga
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  - together
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  - twice a week
• 5:28
  - and try to get to the gym as
• 5:30
  - much as possible, which usually means waking up
• 5:33
  - at 04:30 in the morning
• 5:35
  - to to get down there and do what
• 5:38
  - we gotta do.
• 5:39
  - That does help balance someone emotionally.
• 5:42
  - So,
• 5:43
  - the the three parts are not independent of
• 5:45
  - each other.
• 5:47
  - For emotional balance, I would say
• 5:50
  - keep your friends close and your mentors closer.
• 5:53
  - You need people to talk to that can
• 5:55
  - give you some advice and perspective.
• 5:57
  - I have one of my,
• 5:59
  - career mentors,
• 6:01
  - is actually on the board
• 6:03
  - here at Deborah Heart and Lung Center,
• 6:05
  - and he joins joined me when I started
• 6:08
  - this journey as president and CEO because I
• 6:11
  - knew I needed the the help and the
• 6:13
  - and the guidance.
• 6:14
  - And,
• 6:15
  - you know, what I try to do when
• 6:18
  - I'm feeling a little stressed out,
• 6:20
  - is to always remember that things are never
• 6:23
  - as good as you want them to be
• 6:25
  - or as bad as you think they are.
• 6:27
  - And the expression in the office here, and
• 6:29
  - they they give me a little bit of
• 6:30
  - a hard time about it,
• 6:32
  - is just to to stay in the box.
• 6:35
  - Keep yourself balanced in the middle. Never get
• 6:37
  - too high, never get too low, and allow
• 6:39
  - you to ride out the waves.
• 6:42
  - That's great advice, Jim.
• 6:44
  - Thinking about, the whole vegan adjacent thing, was
• 6:48
  - it something is is it something you find
• 6:50
  - hard to adapt to with your diet? Or
• 6:53
  - is it, you know, something that
• 6:55
  - you've actually come to quite easily? How would
• 6:57
  - you describe that?
• 6:58
  - It's been a journey.
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  - Obviously, my my wife made the decision long
• 7:04
  - before I did and slowly getting acclimated
• 7:07
  - to a plant forward lifestyle.
• 7:10
  - I found the benefits of that
• 7:13
  - both in my energy level as well
• 7:16
  - as not getting cloudy headed
• 7:18
  - after a
• 7:19
  - a a really heavy midday meal.
• 7:22
  - It it's just being mindful.
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  - I mean, at the end of the day,
• 7:26
  - just wanna be mindful of what you're putting
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  - into your your body. But at this juncture,
• 7:31
  - I'm I'm pretty used to it. So it
• 7:33
  - wasn't a a hard lift once you get
• 7:35
  - past
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  - the the routine of
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  - how you look at food and and how
• 7:41
  - you, you know, start to look at it
• 7:43
  - as energy more than anything else.
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  - Got it. Got it. And would you say
• 7:47
  - that being vegan adjacent again, to use your
• 7:50
  - term, but using the vegan plant forward lifestyle
• 7:52
  - as a guide,
• 7:54
  - it sounds like that would fit extremely well
• 7:57
  - with the yoga and all its mindfulness
• 7:59
  - teachings.
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  - How how well do you do you find
• 8:03
  - those fitting together?
• 8:05
  - I incredibly well.
• 8:08
  - You know, the mindfulness in general is a
• 8:11
  - tool. It's not the the only tool someone
• 8:13
  - should have in their tool belt when they're
• 8:17
  - trying to
• 8:18
  - keep themselves both physically and emotionally balanced.
• 8:22
  - I know other friends that love to run
• 8:25
  - or or enjoy team sports.
• 8:28
  - For me, it's I I tend to go
• 8:30
  - inward. So anything where I can
• 8:33
  - harness that mindfulness, breathing exercises.
• 8:36
  - Truth be told, I'm not the best public
• 8:38
  - speaker. I still get
• 8:40
  - very nervous before speaking in front of crowds.
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  - Yoga has given me the the breathing techniques
• 8:46
  - to kinda settle my nerves before I have
• 8:48
  - to get in front of a crowd. So
• 8:50
  - it all comes into play into the career
• 8:53
  - as well.
• 8:54
  - I'm sure you're not alone as far as,
• 8:58
  - trepidation
• 8:58
  - and public speaking are concerned, Jim, but I'm
• 9:01
  - I'm glad that you're you're working on that.
• 9:03
  - And it sounds like you're well on your
• 9:05
  - way to to to mastering as best you
• 9:07
  - can.
• 9:08
  - Yeah. And then you had mentioned mentally as
• 9:11
  - well. Yes.
• 9:12
  - The one thing I I will say on
• 9:15
  - that front is
• 9:16
  - is just to continue to
• 9:18
  - to learn,
• 9:19
  - always be learning.
• 9:21
  - I think some people think, oh, I've become
• 9:24
  - president and CEO and you start to
• 9:27
  - to coast a little bit, but
• 9:29
  - the learning curve is so steep.
• 9:32
  - Obviously, people can't see me on this podcast.
• 9:35
  - I I took this job at 42,
• 9:38
  - 44 now.
• 9:40
  - That's really up to to be a presidency
• 9:43
  - of a
• 9:45
  - a hospital.
• 9:46
  - I get dropped into an incredibly steep learning
• 9:49
  - curve to go uphill from,
• 9:52
  - board management,
• 9:53
  - public speaking we mentioned before,
• 9:56
  - different leadership tools and philosophies. So
• 9:59
  - never stop learning.
• 10:01
  - Always make sure that whatever you're doing, you're
• 10:03
  - challenging yourself to see things from different perspectives
• 10:07
  - or challenge your own perspective
• 10:10
  - just to ensure that you're you're always mentally
• 10:12
  - stimulated.
• 10:14
  - Jim, that makes a ton of sense. And
• 10:16
  - I'm glad you mentioned the learning curve as
• 10:19
  - well as, your analogy, your your image that
• 10:22
  - you painted for us of staying in the
• 10:24
  - box,
• 10:24
  - because that relates to my next question, which
• 10:27
  - is when you have tough days because you're
• 10:29
  - going to have them,
• 10:30
  - where or to whom do you try to
• 10:32
  - move forward? You mentioned, of course, the mindfulness
• 10:34
  - and the mentors. So what specific examples of
• 10:38
  - how you move forward
• 10:39
  - stand out to you?
• 10:41
  - Yeah. I mean, Chris, on the hardest days,
• 10:44
  - you and
• 10:46
  - I don't mean to say this and and
• 10:48
  - freak anyone in my my own hospital
• 10:51
  - out, but on the hardest days, I I
• 10:53
  - go walk around the hospital.
• 10:56
  - Walk the halls, round on the the floors,
• 10:59
  - connect with the team members here.
• 11:03
  - There's never gonna be a day in in
• 11:05
  - my
• 11:06
  - life or career
• 11:08
  - that's gonna be as bad as,
• 11:11
  - someone that's stressed out about stressed out about
• 11:14
  - a loved one
• 11:15
  - that's in the procedure room or
• 11:18
  - someone that's recovering
• 11:20
  - from
• 11:21
  - open heart surgery.
• 11:23
  - And
• 11:24
  - if you want things to be put in
• 11:26
  - perspective
• 11:27
  - for you,
• 11:29
  - when you're having a bad day,
• 11:31
  - you'd see someone walking around
• 11:33
  - the ICU
• 11:35
  - making that first or second lap around the
• 11:37
  - ICU as they're recovering and just getting back
• 11:40
  - on their feet after having open heart surgery,
• 11:43
  - you're gonna realize real quick that your day
• 11:46
  - as a health care administrator is not going
• 11:49
  - as bad as you you really think it
• 11:52
  - is.
• 11:53
  - And
• 11:54
  - and you feed off of the the strength
• 11:56
  - of the team,
• 11:57
  - and
• 11:58
  - you get that that levity,
• 12:00
  - and and you push forward. But but, yeah,
• 12:03
  - I I I walk around. Not all the
• 12:05
  - time. So if I people are listening off
• 12:07
  - from my hospital, and they see me walking
• 12:09
  - around, I'm not having a stressful day,
• 12:12
  - all the time. But but on the bad
• 12:14
  - ones, I I I try to
• 12:16
  - get up on my feet, walk around, and
• 12:18
  - and gain a little bit of perspective.
• 12:21
  - Yeah, Jim. Happy to to provide that. I'm
• 12:23
  - glad you provided that disclaimer of, you know,
• 12:25
  - say, hey. You know, just because you see
• 12:27
  - Jim doesn't mean he's having a bad day.
• 12:29
  - He's still approachable.
• 12:30
  - And, you know, not all not all things
• 12:32
  - are are going poorly for him. Certainly, that
• 12:34
  - that's not always the case.
• 12:36
  - Good to know, certainly. But, yeah, I I
• 12:37
  - love the perspective that you have on just
• 12:39
  - saying
• 12:40
  - to yourself, hey. Let let me see
• 12:44
  - what exactly
• 12:45
  - is going on every day at this hospital,
• 12:46
  - which which you know of. But to see
• 12:48
  - it yeah. I I think a lot of,
• 12:51
  - of our audience members would agree that it's
• 12:53
  - a great place to get perspective on on
• 12:55
  - your own. The
• 12:57
  - philosophy here is smiles are contagious, and I
• 13:00
  - I know that's the the same philosophy at
• 13:03
  - a lot of other health care organizations.
• 13:05
  - But if you can pass a smile along,
• 13:08
  - it's gonna get returned to you. And in
• 13:12
  - likelihood,
• 13:13
  - both people are gonna pass that smile to
• 13:15
  - someone else.
• 13:17
  - So
• 13:18
  - go downstairs, catch some smiles, and and try
• 13:20
  - to feel better about the day.
• 13:23
  - Great idea. Great idea, Jim.
• 13:25
  - Alright. So my next question for you
• 13:28
  - is simply, what is something that you've learned
• 13:30
  - about yourself
• 13:32
  - from working in health care?
• 13:34
  - I mean, we touched on
• 13:36
  - the the golden rule, which I think is,
• 13:39
  - why I got into the health care in
• 13:41
  - the first place and I I try to
• 13:44
  - to live by that.
• 13:46
  - The biggest takeaway probably is I'm a bad
• 13:49
  - patient.
• 13:50
  - I try to be a better patient. You
• 13:52
  - know, working in health care is a very
• 13:56
  - good reminder of how much you need to
• 13:59
  - continue to go see your PCP,
• 14:02
  - be mindful of your heart health,
• 14:04
  - and get your annual screenings on everything. And
• 14:07
  - I I think health care workers in general
• 14:10
  - make bad patients. I am a particularly bad
• 14:12
  - one. So,
• 14:14
  - that I I've learned that real quick in
• 14:17
  - in my twenty years of of being in
• 14:19
  - health care, and I it's still a lesson
• 14:21
  - I'm trying to improve upon every day.
• 14:24
  - But but I ended up in health care
• 14:27
  - by choice. Some of the first seven years
• 14:29
  - of my career, I was with PricewaterhouseCoopers,
• 14:33
  - and I was in their advisory practice
• 14:36
  - and going around the country consulting on a
• 14:38
  - bunch of different clients, whether it was banking
• 14:40
  - or
• 14:41
  - utilities,
• 14:43
  - definitely a lot in the financial sector. But
• 14:45
  - I started to work for healthcare organizations,
• 14:48
  - And
• 14:50
  - and I fell in love with it, not
• 14:52
  - because of
• 14:54
  - the subject matter, because you can build databases
• 14:57
  - and do strategic planning,
• 14:59
  - for for any sector,
• 15:01
  - but because of the people.
• 15:03
  - And the people in healthcare
• 15:05
  - is what brought me
• 15:07
  - into healthcare delivery, and where I get my
• 15:10
  - job at Brigham and Women's Hospital after I
• 15:12
  - left PwC.
• 15:13
  - And
• 15:15
  - it's something that I I learned about myself
• 15:18
  - pretty early in my career is that I
• 15:19
  - need to be surrounded by good people
• 15:22
  - to be happy
• 15:23
  - in what I'm doing. So the the
• 15:26
  - GPS that I use when I I look
• 15:29
  - at my own career is
• 15:31
  - is what I'm doing,
• 15:33
  - who I'm doing it with, and how I'm
• 15:35
  - valued.
• 15:36
  - And who I do it with is really
• 15:38
  - important for me, and it's gotta be good
• 15:42
  - humans first and foremost
• 15:44
  - if I'm gonna be happy where I'm at
• 15:45
  - in my career. And and I think that
• 15:48
  - knowing that about myself
• 15:50
  - has made a a big difference.
• 15:53
  - Jim,
• 15:54
  - how do you go about
• 15:56
  - applying that philosophy
• 16:00
  - to those who come into
• 16:02
  - Deborah
• 16:03
  - as
• 16:04
  - whether they've been in health care for a
• 16:06
  - long time or not?
• 16:09
  - Again, you wanna treat people
• 16:11
  - the way that you want to be treated.
• 16:14
  - And if I just take those three things,
• 16:18
  - of what they're doing,
• 16:20
  - who they're doing it for,
• 16:22
  - and and how they're valued.
• 16:25
  - Everybody
• 16:25
  - here at Deborah, there's over a thousand of
• 16:27
  - us that work at our
• 16:29
  - 94 bed
• 16:32
  - independent
• 16:33
  - specialty hospital,
• 16:35
  - but all 1,000
• 16:36
  - of them, I want them to be a
• 16:37
  - three out of three.
• 16:39
  - I want them to
• 16:40
  - love what they're doing from a
• 16:43
  - responsibility
• 16:44
  - standpoint. I want them to
• 16:46
  - love who they do it for
• 16:48
  - from a organizational
• 16:49
  - leadership perspective, but also for what this organization
• 16:52
  - means in health care.
• 16:54
  - We are
• 16:55
  - carrying on a a mission of
• 16:58
  - of caring for people in a manner that
• 17:01
  - no one else does in the country,
• 17:03
  - from a financial support standpoint.
• 17:06
  - And
• 17:08
  - and that's something that's bigger than all of
• 17:10
  - us. And I want them to believe in
• 17:12
  - that mission and and wanna
• 17:14
  - further that mission because I think it's the
• 17:16
  - the last vestige of what's great about health
• 17:19
  - care now.
• 17:20
  - And I want them to feel valued,
• 17:23
  - whether that's extrinsically,
• 17:25
  - and having fair and equitable wages or or
• 17:28
  - intrinsically
• 17:29
  - and them feeling hurt, like they're contributing to
• 17:33
  - the direction of
• 17:34
  - the organization.
• 17:35
  - We just got done with
• 17:37
  - a $100,000,000
• 17:39
  - capital improvement
• 17:41
  - project, which
• 17:43
  - upgraded all the rooms across the hospital to
• 17:46
  - individual patient rooms. And,
• 17:49
  - we built a mock room down in the
• 17:51
  - cafeteria,
• 17:52
  - and we let all of our employees put
• 17:54
  - post its notes. We have post its from
• 17:57
  - the EVS team around, oh, this is gonna
• 17:59
  - be too tight for me to really work
• 18:01
  - with them. We had post its from the
• 18:03
  - nursing team that says, you know, when the
• 18:05
  - nozzles were here for the oxygen, it really
• 18:07
  - gets in the way of,
• 18:09
  - what we're trying to do, and and we
• 18:11
  - let the team design
• 18:13
  - the new space for our patients. And I
• 18:15
  - think as a result of that,
• 18:18
  - both the team's happier, and they see that
• 18:20
  - their input is
• 18:22
  - is heard and seen. You just gotta do
• 18:24
  - that every single day, three hundred and sixty
• 18:26
  - five days a year.
• 18:28
  - Seems like a very simple,
• 18:30
  - straightforward, but no doubt very powerful and effective,
• 18:33
  - message and method that you have at Devora
• 18:35
  - Gym.
• 18:37
  - Finally, my question last question for you is,
• 18:40
  - and and certainly one risk that you've taken
• 18:42
  - that's paid off
• 18:44
  - is coming to health care in particular.
• 18:47
  - But whether it's that
• 18:50
  - or another risk,
• 18:52
  - what do you look back on your life,
• 18:54
  - your career, and say, you know what? I'm
• 18:55
  - so glad I made that decision.
• 18:58
  - Not to sound
• 19:00
  - sound corny, but, I will I will say
• 19:02
  - this because
• 19:04
  - I think if you talk to
• 19:06
  - most CEOs,
• 19:09
  - most of their risks are gonna have to
• 19:11
  - have paid off. Right? You don't get necessarily,
• 19:15
  - to
• 19:16
  - to,
• 19:17
  - levels in your career
• 19:18
  - unless
• 19:19
  - a lot of things align
• 19:22
  - and and everything works out. So,
• 19:25
  - I
• 19:26
  - I wouldn't have any alignment,
• 19:28
  - if not for
• 19:30
  - taking a risk and going on a blind
• 19:31
  - date,
• 19:33
  - to meet a girl fifteen years ago and
• 19:35
  - and found a
• 19:36
  - a partner in in my health care journey.
• 19:39
  - She my wife is also a health care
• 19:41
  - administrator.
• 19:42
  - But, you know, without that risk, I wouldn't
• 19:45
  - have the support structure
• 19:48
  - or
• 19:49
  - the the ability to to balance myself at
• 19:52
  - home and and have that same,
• 19:55
  - you know,
• 19:56
  - value of of what I was trying to
• 19:59
  - do in my career,
• 20:00
  - if not for taking that risk. Right? But,
• 20:03
  - you know, that that was the biggest. It
• 20:05
  - allowed me to have the strength and the
• 20:07
  - support
• 20:08
  - to to take all the other risks, going
• 20:10
  - from
• 20:11
  - Brigham and Women's Hospital to
• 20:14
  - RWJBarnes
• 20:15
  - Health in Northern New Jersey
• 20:17
  - to take
• 20:18
  - a a broader scope in my career and
• 20:21
  - and really dive into service lines at a
• 20:24
  - scale given the size of that health care
• 20:25
  - system,
• 20:26
  - that isn't really
• 20:29
  - can't really be found,
• 20:31
  - in many places in the country,
• 20:33
  - to
• 20:34
  - shifting from service lines to becoming a
• 20:37
  - a president and CEO of a of a
• 20:39
  - hospital, which was a a different type of
• 20:42
  - set of tools that you have to have
• 20:44
  - in your career than just being a service
• 20:46
  - line leader.
• 20:47
  - Wouldn't have been able to do any of
• 20:49
  - that, if not for for rolling the dice
• 20:52
  - and and going out for a drink.
• 20:55
  - Fifteen years ago
• 20:56
  - after I ended my shift at the hospital,
• 20:59
  - to to meet a girl at a bar
• 21:01
  - in Boston. Sounds very goodwill hunting, but it
• 21:04
  - that is, the truth of it.
• 21:06
  - Well, Jim, let those who would call it
• 21:08
  - corny call it that. Who cares, really? It's
• 21:10
  - it's led you to this
• 21:11
  - wonderful journey that you've had in in health
• 21:14
  - care. Thank you so much for sharing, you
• 21:16
  - know, your mentor. Shout out again to your
• 21:18
  - teacher who put that,
• 21:19
  - you know, how to win friends and influence
• 21:21
  - people.
• 21:22
  - Book in your hand. You know, you said
• 21:25
  - you're a bad patient, but you're learning. It's
• 21:27
  - all part about part of the learning process
• 21:29
  - in health care. Yeah. Just thank you for
• 21:31
  - sharing your your philosophy and and how you've
• 21:33
  - applied that to your career.
• 21:36
  - Thank you, Chris. I really appreciate the opportunity.
• 21:39
  - Thank you to Beckers. Thank you to the
• 21:41
  - team here at the Borah Hart Law Center.
• 21:43
  - Fantastic, Tim. And we'll see you come
• 21:46
  - this fall, I believe. Yeah. Absolutely.
• 21:49
  - I'm very excited for the
• 21:51
  - for the meeting, so I will be there
• 21:53
  - to join you all. Wonderful. Thanks, Jim. Alright.
• 21:56
  - Thank you, Chris.