Latest / Ducks Unlimited Podcast / Ep. 657 - The Art of Decoy Collecting: A Conversation with John Southworth

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Ep. 657 - The Art of Decoy Collecting: A Conversation with John Southworth · Ducks Unlimited Podcast

• Katie Burke: Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. I'm your host, Katie Burke. And today on the show, I have John Southworth. He is the president of the Minnesota Decoys Collectors Association. Welcome to the show, John. John Southworth: Oh, thanks, Katie, and I appreciate having me on. Katie Burke: Yeah, well, you get to thank Marty Hanson for this because he initiated it. Yeah. John Southworth: I've been in touch with him since and we've gone through a lot of Thanks, and you're welcome. We're good friends, great friends, and I do appreciate that. Katie Burke: Shellie Peltz, Ph.D. : So yeah, he was just here actually this week, and I think his episode, I mean, dot timestamp this, but it came out today, so everybody can go back and see that. So we're having like a little Minnesota decoy collectors mini-series. David Morgan, M.D. John Southworth: : Oh, he was telling me that you're a pretty darn good shot. Katie Burke: Oh, that's good. I like that to be in recording. John Southworth: You know, it seems like whenever she puts that gun up in the air, something falls. A lot of practice. Yeah, I guess so. Well, good for you. Katie Burke: I'm glad you said that on the podcast. More people should know. John, okay, so did you grow up in Minnesota? Are you from Minnesota originally? John Southworth: Well, actually I was born in Cleveland, but left as a babe. Left as a babe. Yeah, my whole life I've been here. I'm 76 years old right now, and yeah, my whole life. Katie Burke: Yeah. So did you… I mean, I know you got into decoys and stuff later. Did you grow up hunting and in the outdoors? John Southworth: No. I loved to fish, but I really didn't start hunting until I was probably… I'd say around 17, and then after the stint in the US Army and getting married, then I started duck hunting and actively pheasant hunting and all that other good stuff that goes with it. But no, I didn't hunt as a youth. I did all the upper Midwest hunting with pheasants and ducks and deer and geese, et cetera, et cetera. But it's something I've truly enjoyed. Katie Burke: So with that, when you started getting to that, when were you kind of becoming aware of decoys, of wooden decoys particularly? John Southworth: Well, I'll tell ya, um, my dad used to, both dad and mom used to collect antiques. That was their hobby. And every once in a while, dad would bring home a decoy. And, uh, I think he got it because he liked it. Um, but he said, uh, here, there's something for you, you know, and I looked at it and I thought it was neat, but I never gave it a thought. And then in, um, 1983, I got a call from a good friend of mine who's now passed away, but he called and he said, you know what, I'm going to a decoy show tomorrow. You want to come along? And I said, well, you know, I'm really not too interested in new rubber and plastic decoys. I got plenty. And he goes, no, no, no, this is, this is not rubber and plastic. He said, these are the old ones. And I said, yeah, I'll go. Well, I'll tell you what that started it all because when I walked in I I just was I guess it was like a kid being released with a $20 bill in a candy shop. I was just I was so amazed at the the beauty and the uh, um Just the way they were made and then I wanted to know who made it and where it was made and when was it made and I I left that show Thinking I gotta get back to one of these and it took me a year until I went back went back again to the same Minnesota show again just infatuated I bought my first decoy. It was a handmade Unknown carver out of Wisconsin. It was a blue bill drake And I still have it And I brought it home and I walked in the house with it and I was so pleased with it. And my wife says, well, what's that? Where'd you get it? How much did it cost you? And I said, 35 bucks. And she goes, well, it's all, the neck is cracked and it, yeah. And I said, I know, isn't that great? And of course it, it went from there, you know, and, and uh… then i just started uh… started into it and then i started going to the uh… other shows i went to the uh… do the wisconsin show the ash kosh wisconsin show and then ended up going to the share of the uh… uh… saint charles show and um… uh… you know buying books ordering magazines And it just, it's been a great, great, great, great part of my life. Katie Burke: It's just been fun. Yeah. So what was, can you describe a little bit more of like what it was like to walk into that first show and what that room was like? Were you just overwhelmed or were you like, what, what was that like? And what were kind of, were you talking to people at all? John Southworth: Oh, yeah, I couldn't shut up. You know, I mean, I was asking questions and I was hoping for some great answers and all of the guys were so helpful and they were so generous with their information. But when you walked in, you know, a typical show you walk in and it's full of tables and everybody's sitting there just, you know, and I'm going, wow, what is, what's, what are we doing? What is going on here? And then you finally realize that, Hey, everything there you're looking at is for sale. And, um, so I start walking around and looking at things and like I say, the first show I didn't buy anything, but I was just, I know my eyes were as big as plates and I just was so impressed with, uh, just everything about it, the kindness of the people and the friendliness. I mean, everybody wanted to talk decoys and it was really something. So I knew I had to keep going to these shows. It was just a matter of when and where. Katie Burke: Yeah. And like such a positive experience probably fueled you for that. SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely. Katie Burke: You think back at that time about the decoys that your father had brought home. Did you kind of try to remember them and think what they were? Do you have any? John Southworth: Yeah. In fact, they were, one was, well, there were a couple of the old animal traps out of the Mississippi, Mississippi, the state of Mississippi, and they were almost mint and they were canvas backs. And I still have a pair of those. And then he brought in some masons, and I took one of the masons out of that. It was a standard grade Drake Mallard, and I still have that. And he would bring home others, you know, but he always, he had a good eye. He always tried to get something that was a nice condition. But I wish, if only I could go back in time, I'd love to. I'd love to have been able to go with him. Katie Burke: Do you have the ones he brought home? John Southworth: Oh, yeah. Katie Burke: Okay. So he kept them. John Southworth: Oh, yeah. Yeah. He kept them. He didn't buy and sell everything. He kept them and I picked out what I wanted. And through the years, of course, a couple of them had been given to other friends and stuff like that, but mostly those animal traps. But yeah, he had an eye for him, but he was not a decoy collector. In fact, the decoy collector never even crossed my mind. growing up or anything until I went to that first show. Katie Burke: Beth Dombkowski Well, that's a unique story in that for a collector to have, you know, usually people were given to buy a gift or like a friend or something like that. You saw them, but to have your dad bring them home, that's a fit. David Thompson Yeah. John Southworth: And he would buy them at antique stores. He'd buy them at antique shows. He'd buy them Wherever he'd find him, garage sales, he'd go and he'd look, and if he spotted something, I'll never forget one time he said, hey, would you drive me over to this one particular, there's gonna be a big sale. I said, sure, so we went over there, and out on the front lawn, there's a wooden duck skiff, the oars, the push-pull, two bags of decoys, and it didn't have the trailer but all that was there and I remember looking in the bag and I was probably 17 at the time and I remember looking at the bag and I knew they were all wooden decoys but again at 17 I didn't didn't really I didn't, I don't want to say I didn't care because I thought all of those are really great, but the guy wanted to sell everything in a bunch. No, I had no idea. For all I know, they could have been premier masons in there. I don't know. Anyway, I told my dad, I said, boy, that's quite a bunch of stuff there. He said, yeah, too bad we're not duck hunters. And I said, yeah, it is. And I remember leaving it thinking, oh, I should've looked into that bag a little more. I could've been infatuated right there, but there you go. Katie Burke: Yeah, you could've like set during your retirement right there. You don't know. John Southworth: Hey, you just don't know what the heck was in there. Oh, I tell you. That's funny. Katie Burke: Yeah, that's great. I wonder how much… If only I could… I wonder what it was. John Southworth: I wish. And just that duck skiff alone, it was a great old wooden cedar stripped skiff. I mean, shoot. SPEAKER_01: I just… I wonder who got it. John Southworth: Oh, I suppose some lucky duck hunter came along and grabbed that baby up. He didn't. I remember at the time, I think the guy for everything, he wanted like $300. And, uh, you know, of course now, I mean, you, you'd fight a grizzly bear for that, for that money. But, uh, that's just the way it went. You know, that was a long time ago. Katie Burke: I wonder, what was your dad paying for decoys, do you know? Oh, a buck and a half. John Southworth: Yeah, yeah. They were just like any other antique. Back then, the prices were so … They just weren't looked at as prized possessions. They were just old wood duck decoys that were used to shoot ducks with. And that's all he looked at it, you know, and I remember him bringing home those animal traps and, uh, and, uh, I know just knowing that he wouldn't have, you know, at the time he probably wouldn't have paid more than about a buck and a half, two bucks each. So, and I, I mean, yes, they were animal traps, which maybe are not high on everybody's list, but they were meant. and they certainly are worth more than that now. Yeah, they definitely have appreciated. Katie Burke: They may not be the most valuable decoy, but they've more than appreciated from that $1.50. John Southworth: Oh, indeed. And as people learn more about the significance of those early factories, just the interest is going up so much. People don't turn their nose up at them anymore. Now they're actually in a lot of collections, especially the real minty ones. Katie Burke: Beth Dombkowski Yep, they are. They're being more and more so. When I first started, all you heard was masons, and now it's more and more of those factory birds are in collections, being articles written about them, things like that. Yeah. So let's skip back up to your first show because the one thing, you actually had information about you on the internet. You've done interviews before. That's rarity in the decoy collecting community. So I know that you are a collector and I'm assuming you collect a lot of Minnesota decoys, but one thing I'm always interested in with collectors particularly is like, okay, so you went to this first show, you got that blue bill. Do you know what, the Blue Bill, it was Unknown Maker, right? John Southworth: So how- Yeah, I've showed a lot of guys. Nobody knows, you know. Katie Burke: So how did you start, after you started going to shows from then on, did you start trying to figure out what you wanted and what have you kind of settled, like what do you collect mostly now? But what was that evolution of deciding- Yeah, yeah, great question. John Southworth: That's exactly what it was. It was just that, yes, great question. It was an evolution, really. I mean, when I first started, after those uh… few decoy shows as i i i just would call up and i'd look i'd i'd love going to antique stores anyway not just necessarily for ducks but who knows what you're going to find in i would go through and i'd keep something i like and i'd you know for the reasonable price i'd pick it up and bring it home i mean i bring home uh… just about anything and everything but nothing was and uh… so i I just started going, but from about the third to fourth show, I started showing a great interest in Midwest birds. Minnesota, yes, but more so, for me anyway, it was Wisconsin, Michigan, and Canada, Ontario. SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay. John Southworth: You know, that's just what I liked. As I look at them, I'd look at this one and I'd say, yeah, it's nice. But this one, this one's really nice. I love the styles. I love the colors. And it just turned out that, um, Wisconsin, Michigan were definitely, um, screaming at me to, you know, be their favorites because that's about, that's about all I started to collect. And, um, So, yes, and I have some Minnesota birds, too, of course, but in Minnesota, unfortunately, yes, we had some great carvers. Yes, we definitely did. But we had a lot of bad carvers, too. And it's tough when you do find a good Minnesota bird, it's far and in between. Katie Burke: Yeah, it's interesting because that whole area to me, and I work on getting better with the Midwest area. There's so much similarity, but then also it can be a big gap between the styles. It can jump really far, but then yet there's like… And then even just within Wisconsin itself, it's kind of surprisingly, the style can flip around a lot. SPEAKER_01: Oh, indeed. Yeah. Katie Burke: I have the hardest time with some of the identifying some of the lesser known decoys in those areas just because… Yeah. John Southworth: Well, there were so many carvers. I mean, those guys, those hunters, they weren't afraid to make their own birds. And we're talking thousands of decoy carvers, hunters in Wisconsin and Michigan the same But they would actually, they'd carve together, just like a lot of areas. They'd carve together, they'd get the idea, and they'd say, geez, I really like the way you do that tail. And they'd start carving that way. And so, like everything, you learn over time the little idiosyncrasies of these guys and what they did to their bird to make it a little different than this one. And that I just found so, so interesting. But you're right, Wisconsin, for example, I mean, they've got the southeast corner, which, you know, is noted for its fantastic painting and really fine carving. And you get into that Oshkosh area, the Lake Winnebago, then you got the large, oversized, heavy birds for the big water. Green Bay has its own kind of idea. They did their own thing. La Crosse, down by the La Crosse, Prairie du Chien, again, a unique style. So yeah, that's what's so interesting about it, is you've really got some terrific ideas and… Yeah, I haven't thought about this, but I'm guessing it's because, until where you're talking about it and thinking about it, Katie Burke: Geographically, it's not a small area, so they're not that close together. And so they weren't really seeing each other across the state. And at the time when they're mostly carving, so many people are hunting out there and are traveling to hunting out there, especially after the railroad. You're getting tons of hunters. So yeah, you would get a… diverse group, because you'd have such a large, especially then, because it was so much more property to hunt and places to go. So they were, yeah. Richard Dallek, J.D. John Southworth: : Well, that's true too. Like for example, Lake Koshkannon, which is in the southeast corner of Wisconsin, that was at one time was known as the Chesapeake area of the West. It was fantastic canvasback hunting. And there were The old sports, you know, they'd jump on the trains and they'd go from, you know, Chicago and the East Coast. They'd come out there to hunt. And many of them brought their Chesapeake Bay area, the Susquehanna Flats, all that sort of thing. They brought all those with them. And some of the guys down there said, hey, I like that style. So they started making decoys in that area of Lake Oshkosh that resemble um that area up in the Chesapeake Bay area and And all of a sudden that now is known as the kashkana decoy And there were a lot of and these are wisconsin guys who made them and they they changed their style a little bit They would put different weights on them and things like that that the east coast didn't do And now that's a real sought after Wisconsin decoy is anything out of kashkanon they call them the kosh birds And yeah, so it that is something all again. It's all Related to the railroads coming into the state back then and of course through time kashkanon was unfortunately ruined by doing this and that and damming this and all this because all of a sudden the salary's gone. But that happened all over. And indeed it did. But at one time it was really something. But that started a whole different idea of decoy making in that part of Wisconsin, the southeast corner down there. Yeah. Things can affect the designs tremendously. Katie Burke: Okay. So when you're going through these shows and you're starting to collect, are there any people that you have met along the way or mentors or anything like that that started to, were you just steering your collecting by what you liked or were there certain people that were more influential during that time that helped steer? John Southworth: Oh, there were many, many, many guys and gals that, through the years were so kind, and they gave their assistance. And yeah, Dick Brust, of course, is our Minnesota. He was one of the co-founders of our organization, and he would give you great advice. But Dick didn't go to a whole bunch of shows, but I remember going when I went to Wisconsin. these older fellows they took a liking to me because i was one of the younger guys at the time and they wanted to get me off on the right foot so uh… i do remember uh… many of them ron cook ron cook he lives in amaro wisconsin he's always always been uh… help if i had a question about something then uh… he wasn't afraid to tell you what he thought of it and uh… Um, Bill Brower tell you if you had bad taste. Yeah, he would definitely tell you what to look for in this and that. And then there was Bill Brower from Fond du Lac and Roger Ludwig from Oshkosh. And those two started the, uh, uh, Oshkosh, the Wisconsin decoys show way back when. And again, they were both, ended up being good friends through the years with a lot of good advice. And Joe Tonelli out of Illinois, and I know you know Joe, and again, big help. A lot of decent folks, just wonderful folks I've met through the years. And I'll tell you, that's one of the biggest parts of this collecting is the social, the friendships that you make, and the friendships that last. They just, they stay around. And yeah, through the years, though, I mean, I know I haven't mentioned a lot of guys, but there's Dave Kneebone out of Illinois, and Bert Calmer out of Illinois, and many, there's many guys. We all can talk to each other and ask questions, You know, hey, do you think that's right? Do you think that paint is right? And this and that. And we've helped each other through the years, you know, find good ones and avoid buying bad ones. So it's been, yeah, but boy. A lot of guys out there are willing to help if you just ask. That's the wonderful part about this is a great deal of friendship. Katie Burke: Yeah, it is. And I was doing something with Marty's friend, Jody. He had me doing an interview for him for one of his little video stuff he does. And I was saying that's probably one of the… The best things about this job, because I grew up in DU and all this, and I know that about Ducks Unlimited, but I was just so pleasantly surprised about and didn't realize when I got into this what the decoy community, how it was going to affect my life in such a positive way. I can't say good enough things, but it definitely came out of nowhere. I didn't see it coming. John Southworth: Yeah, that's good to hear. Yeah. I, and I'll tell you, there's very, very little, uh, negativity to say, I mean, yes, there's always, everybody's looking for the same things and it's, you know, it's always competition and this and that, but you know, in the, when the sun sets, everybody basically is, you know, they're good people and, uh, It's just that we're all competitive, but we all treat each other well, and that's the important thing. Katie Burke: All right, that's a good place to stop and take a quick break. SPEAKER_01: All right. Katie Burke: Hi, everybody. Welcome back. I have John Southworth here and we'll just continue our conversation. So we just kind of went through a little bit of the people who inspired you and helped you through this process. But one of the things I want to talk to you about before we get to more of the history of the show and that sort of thing. As I know you do tons of research on your birds and the carvers. So when did you kind of start doing more research and stuff on your birds? Did you start that immediately as you collected them? Was that an interest right away or how did that kind of evolve, that side of it? John Southworth: David Morgan, MD, PhD No, I think any good collector, if you're if you're trying to Find as much information as you possibly can. I think you gotta you gotta start out early and you gotta start Developing some idea as to what these guys where they lived how they carved Because right now, you know yourself that most guys most decoy collectors if they're they can be shown a decoy and if it's kind of in their realm of of uh, you know, what they collect, they can usually tell you right away who made that decoy. And everybody says, well, how can you tell? They all look the same to me. But you learn after a while that there are… It just stays in your mind, I guess, that you know what that bird looks like. Katie Burke: And… Beth Dombkowski Yeah. It's hard to explain, but you're right. It just is something… Jim Collins It is. John Southworth: It is hard. And you know, but I… I started with the magazines, Decoy Magazine and Hunting and Fishing Collectibles by Stan Van Etten, and they had fantastic articles and books. I bought just about every book about the Midwest decoys and Ontario that I could find. And honestly, many evenings, instead of sitting down with a novel, I'll sit down with a decoy book. And I'm going through those things, looking at the pictures, reading about the maker and where they lived, et cetera. And it really helps me try to put it in my mind that, yes, OK, I know, because you can talk about these guys kind of when they were born, what era they lived through, where they were from, and that's all just through reading and trying to grasp as much knowledge as you can. And I personally, I'm kind of a history buff, so frankly, it came pretty easy for me. I just enjoy looking, reading, and trying to remember. what I read so that it'll stay there and it'll help me along. Katie Burke: Yeah, and it's something about adding, I mean, these were people, right? They have their people with their own stories and lives that were lived. And it's something to me also about like, I can remember a guy's decoys once I have like, almost like a, not an antidote, but like some sort of like interesting part of their history. Like not like, they all say like they were Like they were like a craftsman, or they always have like the same jobs, you know, like they were a carpenter or something, but that doesn't stick with me. But there's other things, like for the most part, if they have something unique about them, that then helps me then remember the decoys. I don't know why, it's just how my brain can connect them. John Southworth: Yeah. Well, you know, just as an example, there were several ministers that carved in Wisconsin, right off the top of my head. I cannot remember their names, but I know there's ministers, undertakers, firemen, a lot of firemen. Katie Burke: A lot of downtime as a fireman. John Southworth: Pardon me? Katie Burke: There's probably a lot of downtime as a fireman. You need something else to do. John Southworth: Exactly. And cops, the police were… Same thing, there were a lot of policemen who carved. Frank Stry, for example, out of Oshkosh was a bridge tender. What's a bridge tender? Well, he controlled the railroad bridge over the Fox River in Oshkosh, but that was a bridge tender. That was his job. He worked for the railroad. And he'd sit there during the day when there was nothing happening, and he'd be whittling his heads and bodies and stuff like that in the little, I don't know, it's a little cabin or something right at the end of the bridge. And he would do that, and he'd bring them all home. And oh, there's so many things. Ralph Bollum, I have a pair of his canvas backs. And Fireman. In 1933, he made a rig of birds. And his big thing is he used pegs. He split the bodies in like three pieces. Then he pegged them all together. And a very unique idea. And they're big, beautifully done birds. But yeah, they all have a way of making a living. But this was one of their main loves in life. Ron Cook, the gentleman I spoke of a little earlier, he was a mailman. And as he made his rural route, he remembers and he told me many times how he'd come across people who said, hey, I understand you enjoy decoys and he'd end up buying a rig from them. And stuff like that. So but then Ron, of course he carves um, he carves through the years now. He's done many many nice decoys And uh, but like I say you name you name an occupation and by golly there I'm sure there's some decoy carvers in there Katie Burke: Yeah. So is there anything through like with research or any decoys that you weren't sure that any surprises in over the years that you've come across? John Southworth: Yes. Yes. The one that I'm thinking of right off the top of my head is… I love to collect Evans, Walter Evans decoy company, the Evans decoys. I don't know if you've ever seen one. Katie Burke: I did. Terry Smart's thing was at… Oh, there you go. John Southworth: Our dear Terry. Lady Smith, Wisconsin was the home to Walter Evans and his decoy factory. As you go along, you know, and you're, you basically see them all. And after a while you get to know them all. Well, one day I, I happened to find, um, a gentleman who was carrying a pair of blue bills. And I, I asked him, I said, boy, those are good looking. He said, Oh, thanks. He said, they're early, early Walter Evans. And they're a different paint job than, than anything I ever saw. And, uh, I remembered those birds. I believe I dreamt of them. And a couple years ago at our show, one of our board members was selling that pair for this gentleman that I had talked to as he had just recently purchased those bluebills. And I said, what are you doing with them? He says, I'm selling them. Well, needless to say, I grabbed them. Just beautiful birds, and it turns out that they were some of the very, very first that the Evans factory did. And the basic idea is that he probably did those to compete with Mason and all these other companies at the time, so he ended up probably taking those to hardware stores or the big VLNA and all that, just to see if they'd be interested, because he had to have something to compete. And they ended up, he probably made a dozen of them, because I found, beside mine, a good friend of mine down in Illinois, Bert Comer, just found a hen out of the same rig. He and I had talked about it, and he ended up getting it. But that was probably one of the earliest decoys I've ever seen. And then, and that just, like I say, I walked into a room at a decoy show, and there it was. And the other one is I found on a website, I found a teal, a green-winged teal that I looked at. I knew right away when I looked at it that it was an Evans bird. And you don't see green- No, I was going to say there's a pair. Yeah, the only other pair that I'm aware of is owned by Jim Cook out of Minneapolis. And I'm looking at this and I'm going, well, I just can't believe this. I know what it is. I knew. I mean, I would have bet anything that that was an Evans. By golly, nobody showed any interest in it because the description was very similar to an Evans decoy. Well, as soon as a lot of guys see that, they figure, well, it's not an Evans, so I don't want it, whatever. And I got it. And it's two years ago, it took the People's Choice Award and the first blue ribbon in our contest at our Minnesota show. And everybody was pretty amazed because they had never seen another one. And this is an early one. So no one's ever, to my knowledge anyway, no one else has ever seen one like that. So surprise. Katie Burke: Big surprise. John Southworth: So once in a while you get lucky. Katie Burke: Beth Dombkowski When did you find it on the internet? How long ago was that? John Southworth: Oh, I'm going to say maybe five years ago. Katie Burke: That's pretty late of the internet to find something like that. John Southworth: I know. Well, it just happened that somebody came across it, put it up on the site and I was lucky enough to happen across it. And I've really studied through the years. I've studied those Evans birds and I took one look at it and I said, This is more than similar. This is it. This is the holy grail here. And yeah, so I was so fortunate. I was really lucky. And there's others too, but those two probably are the two that I… remember the most, I guess. Katie Burke: Beth Dombkowski Yeah, that's very late for the internet, because that's way past what a lot of people refer to as the holy grail, the days of eBay when it was good. John Southworth: David Morgan Well, you know, the thing is, collections are getting broke up all the time now that so many of these decoy collectors, let's face it, a lot of them are getting elderly. They decide to sell their collections and they go Hither and yon they just go, you know, I mean they end up at websites. They end up at auctions People take them to decoy shows and so all of a sudden, you know these little uh treasures they do show up and if you're lucky enough to be there at the right place at the right time why You're in business. Katie Burke: Beth Dombkowski That's right. All right, so let's go… We need to start talking about the Minnesota Decoy Collection, the decoy show. So since you mentioned Dick Bruss, can you talk a little more about… Because it's one of the older shows. Is it older than Chicago? John Southworth: Or about… Dick Bruss Yes, it is. Beth Dombkowski Okay, so… Dick Bruss Yes, it is. And that's something that we never really put out there all the time. Our group started the first meeting, again, now this wasn't official, this wasn't the Minnesota Decoy Collectors, but the group started in 1963. 15 guys got together at a fellow's home and they all had an interest in it, they either worked together or they all knew somebody, they all had decoys. And they said, well, let's get together, let's talk, let's trade information. Because at that time, back in 63, they were all interested and a lot of information wasn't out. So they wanted to learn. And they figured, hey, we get 15 of us here, there's going to be somebody that knows something about this or that. Anyway, and I remember there was Bob Michelson. and dick brust who were the co-founders uh… of what we turned out to be in today's present era and dick wrote on a picture that he had taken of some of the guys there at the meeting and he said great meeting and whoever it was i think it was milk was his name he said Dick said, men milk served as wieners and beans. I thought to myself, wow, what a feed. But then from that point on, they would meet regularly. It wasn't like once a year. They would meet at different guys' homes. They'd say, hey, come on to my house. We'll have another meeting. And this went on. And then as things, they got bigger, they had more people interested. And then they started going to the small hotels to just go in their exhibit room and start. I remember the first one I went to was a little motel in St. Paul on a busy strip. And they got in there and there were probably maybe 25, 30 tables. That was their first show I went to. And then uh, of course, it just kept getting bigger and bigger and and uh, we got our non-profit uh, um title and we Went with it from there. So and now this year we're actually going to celebrate our 62nd year and I think you said mentioned the uh, North American, then I believe they started getting together in 66. So we're three years earlier. Katie Burke: So you mentioned a nonprofit. Is that just for the Collectors Association? Because what is the foundation? John Southworth: Well, the Minnesota Decoys Collectors Association and the Minnesota Decoys Foundation, they're both nonprofit organizations. minnesota assigned associations in other words what the we we both are we wanted to be non-profit we're not in it for making any money we're basically out there trying to enjoy the show enjoy the decoys meet and pay the bill for the hotel We're not into it for big time, but yeah, we decided to do that way back when and they thought that was something that would be good to do. Dick Bress at the time was an attorney and he said, you know, we should do this. Katie Burke: Always helps to have an attorney on the founding committee. John Southworth: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He worked for 3M. He was quite a… He was quite a guy in that within the company and he said, let's do everything right. Let's get the nonprofit. Let's get a name on the books. And, um, yeah, so he, Him and Bob Michaelson, they were the co-founders, and they had a good head on their shoulders. They decided to do it right. Katie Burke: So what is the foundation? That's new to me, Marty. So Marty's the president of the foundation, right? He is. So what is its role in all of this? John Southworth: Okay, well, the Minnesota Decoy Foundation, that was founded officially in 1991. And that was all thanks to Dick Broust. He felt, at the time, as many of us did, of course, that we should protect and educate the people of Minnesota and anybody. Just, we want to educate people about these people that made decoys, used them to hunt. In other words, it's all part of Minnesota history. And we didn't want it to die off. So we started this foundation and the whole idea is through the years we've had our decoys on exhibit at various places throughout the years. Um, we've, um, gone to Ducks Unlimited, uh, banquets and we have gone to the state capital in the state fair. And uh, we've done a lot just to educate people and to let them know that there was there's a great deal of history there And uh right down now we have um We have five members of board members um that are Our job is to basically Make sure that we're always searching and looking for something. That would be a benefit to our you know, our collection, something that would be important to show people and let them learn about it. Katie Burke: So is that like a collections type thing? So y'all are actively collecting or is that what you're saying? John Southworth: Well, the thing is we have the board. So if somebody comes across something unusual, for example, one of our board members found something I don't know where he found it, how he found it, I should say, because the bird was actually in England. And it was a very rare Heron Lake decoy that somehow ended up over in England. And this person decided they wanted to sell it. So they got on the internet and they looked up our website And they contacted the gentleman at the time who was, his name was on it, was Jim Krebsbach, and he's still on our board. Katie Burke: Yeah, I know Jim. John Southworth: You know Jim, okay. And Jim started communicating with this, it was a lady, and she said, yes, I have added in our family, she said, it's the only one we have. But we figured that that's what this is and they had a little note on it that it was from minnesota and air heron lake And we worked out a deal. We ended up buying it from her And now that went into our uh, uh foundation birds, that's one of them that uh, we can take around and uh exhibit it if we we ever want to and um Yeah, and so we're always looking and we take donations too people are kind enough where they'll contact us and say, you know, I have this that was made by my dad back in 1935. Are you interested in it? Well, you're darn right we are. So, yeah, we're just trying to keep the Minnesota carvers out there so that people can see, you know, what they made and where they made them, when they made them. And again, it's all part of the outdoor history. Beth Dombkowski Yeah, that's really cool. Katie Burke: That's very different than most… Yeah, that's pretty unique for a collecting group, which I like. I like that about it. John Southworth: John Kieschnick Yeah. There's not a lot of… I don't believe there's a lot of those organizations out there that are doing that. That's something that I think is important. It's one thing to be a collector and be with a group of collectors and an association like this, but sometimes these birds that should be kind of like almost an exhibit collection, it's not done. And sometimes those through the years get lost, they get sold or whatever. And uh, we just felt it was important to try to keep many of those as many as we can You know, and that's what we're trying to do Katie Burke: You never know. I mean, obviously I believe in this as a museum curator, but you never know who you're going to inspire, be it a collector or a kid who wants to carve or do what I do. I mean, you never know who, what that collection is going, who that's going to affect and how it will affect people. John Southworth: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Katie Burke: There's something really special about that. John Southworth: And what we've done with our show is we have, we started this probably, oh man, I suppose 15 years ago. We decided to, on our Saturday event, we have what we call the Best Bird Contest. And a lot of different associations will have that at their get-togethers where you bring your best bird Well, we decided that besides having our decoys, you know, by these well-known old-time carvers, there's a lot of young people out there who may be interested in getting into that hobby of wood carving or carving a decoy. So we started the young carvers. We have our own little contest just for them. You've gotta be 16 and on down, but the idea is that you should see these carvings that these kids do. And they're all taught by, there's one gentleman now that does it. In fact, he's got a couple of helpers, but the idea is that these kids are not just on their own, and they're carving with cork. So they're trying to make it as safe as possible for these kids because they are being supervised. And every year they make a certain specie. And this year it's going to be our specie for the show is black duck. So all these kids, and I think last year there were like, oh wow, I think there were like 45 kids who put these decoys there. I mean, it's amazing. And these kids will all make their own decoy. They'll paint it do the whole thing and then they bring it to our show and then um, they're judged and the top three get a ribbon And uh, it gets these kids just very very interested in it and You can't believe it. They obviously mom and dad bring them You know because a lot of them are 13 14 12 years old and it's amazing. These kids are like they're just so excited you can't help but just giggle watching them because their mom and dad they're they're they're like they're at a football game you know they're all oh look at here look at here and it's just great and and i know that some of those kids are gonna this will continue with them it's not like a two or three year interest and then they're going to drop out i hope but they're some of them are so good so good and uh oh it's Again, we just feel, you know, just kind of educate people and get people interested and try to continue this whole idea of making decoys. That's why we have the contemporary decoys we have today, such as Marty and stuff, is because they started out young and their interest has just grown. There you go. They're making these beautiful things. Katie Burke: So before we go, so let's kind of give the when, where, and what of the Minnesota Decoy Collectors Show, because it's coming up, and I want to make sure we get all that in. So when and where is it, and then what to expect? John Southworth: Okay. Well, the show is actually going to be, it's broken into a few parts. We have our what we call our room to room trading event. And that's going to be held on Wednesday and Thursday. That would be, uh, the end of January. It's January 29th and 30th. And then on Friday, it'll be the first day of the show. And it costs 20 bucks to come in on that day because it's a members only show. But anybody can be a member. Anybody can join for 20 bucks. You're a member and that's a family registration. So if you come with, um, you know, your wife or your husband and you, you have a couple of kids, you know, if you buy a membership, you get in. And the idea is that, uh, on Friday, we also have Friday evening. We have after our show is over at six o'clock by we have an auction. At seven o'clock, but again, that's members. You got to be a member to be in there Then this shows, uh, the other show ends on saturday. It goes until about two The location is going to be at the double tree by hilton At the minneapolis airport It's actually in the town of bloomington It's out on the strip 494, but it's uh, 2020 american Boulevard East. Katie Burke: You and Marty both know the address by heart, and that tickles me so much that you'll have the address memorized. John Southworth: Well, we've been doing it long enough. And the idea is that you could come and you can entertain yourself. It doesn't cost very much. Saturday, we have Uh public, you know can come you don't have to be a member, but you pay five bucks. And again, that's for family so very inexpensive, uh, it's And we're having the best bird contest on, uh saturday And this year it's going to be all about the black duck and we're going to have antique black duck Um, uh factory antique factory antique hand carved modern contemporary hunting bird and modern contemporary decorative and that'll be our series and we have fun and It's just a great time. We do look forward to it every year, so it's coming up quick. Katie Burke: Yeah, it is. Well, is there anything before we go that we haven't talked about that you want to mention? John Southworth: Boy, I think we did a pretty good job with the show itself, the foundation. I guess we've got everything basically covered. I can't think of anything else unless you You do. Of course, I'll hang up and I'll, oh my God, I should have talked. Katie Burke: Beth Dombkowski I guess I have one question to end. So if you, as someone who kind of got started with decoy collecting by attending a show for the first time, if you had advice for somebody going to their first show that might be interested in collecting decoys, do you have any advice for that person if they could? John Southworth: David Morgan I sure do. I sure do. Great question. That's something that I think all of us talk about. Because when people are, they hear about something like that and they want to attend, again, they don't know what to expect. But if they're interested in the outdoors, not only duck hunting, but just hunting in general, we have artwork, we have duck decoys, goose decoys, duck calls, There'll be some fish spearing decoys there, yes. So you kind of get a gambit of everything, the whole outdoor thing. But our primary goal is waterfowl decoys, both contemporary and the old vintage antique. I think so many young people, they may have an interest just to come and see what it's all about. And being honest with you, I think one of the biggest things that scares a lot of these young people are they think it's so terribly expensive and Yes, I admit there are very expensive Decoys, uh, but there's also very many very affordable decoys Uh, it's like antique cars. I mean you can you can find an antique car for maybe five ten grand Or you can if you want to really go crazy you can invest a couple hundred thousand You don't have to get a hundred thousand or two hundred thousand dollar decoy. You can certainly find there's plenty of decoys Uh, that'll be very affordable for most everybody's pocketbook Um in nothing if nothing else if you don't expect to go home with the decoy Ask questions and learn. That's what it's all about. You come to these things, everybody is more than welcome to tell you about the ducks and the geese and the calls on their tables. You just have to ask, you know, and they'll be very glad to help you. And if it's something you think that this is what you'd like to get into, then look around for something you can afford. And go from there, but I I do urge people to to educate themselves learn about um you know what it is what what is original paint and what is over paint and um What are total repairs like are totally reheaded or something? It may it won't make that decoy useless or worthless to anybody. But the fact is it isn't going to be priced Way up there. It's going to be lower price. And if that's something you enjoy you don't mind it you want it get it So it's it's wide open, you know, they can do whatever they want. But but uh people are there for your To answer your questions and it will give you a chance to learn and and as you walk around that show walk around walk around walk around you'll get an idea what prices look like and what uh, what a hundred dollars will buy and What, $200 a buy? And there'll be decoys there. There'll be decoys up around 10 grand, 15 grand, that type of thing. But again, it's fun to look at, but you don't have to think that's what you've got to do right away to get into this, is buy that sort of stuff. So not to worry, just come and enjoy. There's plenty of stuff there. Oh, plenty, plenty. So just come and enjoy. Katie Burke: Well, John, yeah. Well, John, thank you so much for doing this with me. I appreciate it. John Southworth: Oh, no problem at all. I appreciate you calling and giving me the opportunity. Katie Burke: Thanks, John, for coming on the show. Thanks to our producer, Chris Isaac, and thanks to you, our listener, for supporting wetlands and waterfowl conservation.