Latest / Ben Taylor Podcast / Precision Logistics for Art at Sea | Cadogan Tate | Francois Vandame
Transcript
- Hi, everybody.Welcome back to the Ben Taylor podcast, the Home of Marine Industry Insights.Uh, this podcast is brought to you by the Superyacht Services Guide, a worldwide trusted directory of yachting services.Today, we're gonna talk about fine art logistics.I'm particularly excited for this one 'cause it is niche, to say the least.Oh, yeah.There's not, there's not many people doing what we do.There's not.Um- There's not.So great to see you, Francois.Yeah, nice- Thanks for coming on the podcast.Nice to see you, Ben.Thanks for having us.So, le- let's have some context first.It's Cadogan Tate.Um- Yeah.what do you guys do?What's the mission there?Well, so C- Cadogan Tate is a, um, a fine art logistics provider, right?So we're, um, founded in 1977, uh, in London.Um, and we started off doing all the, the work for Christie's Auction House.Oh, right.Uh, like removals, um, uh, furniture, artwork, p- stuff that people were just like buying at, at, at the auction.Yeah.Um, and, uh, Rowan Masson-Taylor, the founder, used to park up his truck outside and then sort of ask people if they needed a hand, uh, getting whatever they'd bought to their homes.Right, and that was the start of it.And that was the start of it, yeah.'Cause n- nobody, nobody thinks about that.Nobody thinks, "Okay, you go to an auction, right?You buy something."You don't really go into, "Okay, well, how does it move from where it is now to where it needs to be?"Yeah.And there's quite a lot of special conditions in that delivery.Well, and, and I've got a feeling that a lot of people buy stuff without sort of thinking it through first.Yeah, yeah.Um, like is it actually going to fit- Yeah, they're all excited at the auction-through the door, you know?Yeah, I love it.Yeah, yeah great.You know?And now how are you gonna do this?Yeah.And, um, and, uh, so the company's expanded, um, since then.Yeah.Um, I mean, we've got, um, you know, 3 major facilities in London.Um, we've got 2 facilities in Paris.We also cover the Cote d'Azur, um, with our Marsantou operation.Um, uh, and of course, we're very active in the States.I guess on the European side, we're covering all of the continent with our own trucks- Yeah.um, on like a weekly basis.And stateside, you know, we've got, um, you know, all of the continental US covered every month with our own trucks.And, uh, we've got offices, you know, L- LA, San Francisco, Aspen, Chicago, um, uh, New York, Miami- Yeah.Uh, we've got 3 in Texas.Um, it's, uh, so a bit, uh, a bit mad actually- Yeah.how, how, how quickly we've grown and, um, and it, it turns out that it's, it's really very important for, for our clients and for people who are shipping things to, to keep things in- house from door to door.By having a bigger network, we're able to do that.Um, and of course, we're looking at expanding, um, into the Middle East, um- Yeah.and, and Asia as well.So, um, the hope is at 1 point the sun will never set on a Cadogan Tate office.Um- I like it.I like it.And, and I suppose the, the important thing here h- is here, it's all artwork.Like, artwork is your specialty.Almost by coincidence, that's then incorporated a bit of the yachting element- Well-and the logistics around art on board.So it's not just artwork.Uh, I mean, th- this, this work pulls us in all sorts of directions.Um, I, um, you know, we, we are known for handling art because it's very fragile.Yeah.Um, it needs special handling.But we're also really involved, uh, with, you know, furniture, lighting, design.Um, uh, we've shipped jewelry in armored trucks.Um, uh, you know, we've shipped boats, like racing vessels.Um- So it's more like, it's more like the specialist transport where there's- Yeah.some, some really oddball- Preci- precision logistics executed- Precision logistic, there we go.That's the term.execute, e- e- executed at, at the very highest level.Yeah.Um, and I think the work that we do for yachts, um, is some of the most challenging work around, um, w- because you're not just dealing with a point A to point B.You're dealing with moving targets, different jurisdictions.Yeah.Um, and so we, we launched our yacht services division a couple of years ago at Monaco.And, um, uh, and, you know, we, we have a fleet of, of vessels that we actually, um, handle the logi- the logistics for globally, right?Yeah.So, um, it could be that we're working on a new build and, you know, designers are buying things all over the world and we're collecting them and crating them, uh, and then in- you know, delivering them to the shipyard.Um, it could be the boats, you know, in Sardinia for a day or, you know, Saint Martin for a day.And, uh, we've got to send a crew there to get everything on board, you know, within 12 hours, get stuff off, do all of the customs- Yeah.and, and, uh, it has to be that one day.There's, there's not like any margin for error.Yeah.Otherwise, the boat will have literally left.Yeah.The- Well, and then theUh, that's never happened to us.Okay, good.But I guess, you knowBut like if it did- Yeah.we would just send them to the next port of call.What's kind of a bit of a checklist of things they need to consider rather than, you know, sending it with a standard carrier?Well, so, you know, I think time is your friend.Okay.Uh, but it can become your enemy if you don't have enough of it, right?Very quickly.Yeah.So you want to be like thinking about this stuff in advance, right?So like when we're working on a new build, um, it's not just, you know, you know, send stuff to us and we'll take care of it.It's, you know, weekly meetings with the crew and yacht management, um, you know, to check in, to see like if there's things that are falling behind, um, um, to sort of p- plan through all of the customs ahead of time so everyone knows what they're doing.Um, and also, you know, with that, being able to adapt, you know, in real time for last minute changes, you know.Um, and- Yeah, it's just the reality of doing this stuff.Yeah.Things are gonna change.It's a moving landscape.Contingency planning.A lot of time is spent on contingency planning, um, and like backups.Yeah.If like plan A doesn't work, we've got a plan B.If plan B doesn't work, we've got a plan C.Yeah.Um, and, um, you know, the reality is that, you know, a lot of the things that people are putting on boats these days, um-are not things that, uh, can just be sent to a shipyard, right?They, they, they're, you know, very valuable.They're very expensive.Um, they need s- you know, climate control, transit.They need bundled storage, um- Yeah.for the, for the taxes.Um, there's lots of little things that you wanna be thinking about quite early on a project.Um, and, uh, with, with time, we can make about, just about anything happen.Like if, if I've got 2 weeks notice, I could, I could basically do anything that anyone needs.Yeah.Um, if I've got 2 days notice, it kind of limits our options.Yeah.One of our biggest responsibilities is to reduce the stress, actually, involved with these projects.Yeah, of course.Um, by being reliable, by, uh, turning up on time, um, by- Th- these g- yeah.These are gonna be s- these are gonna be very, kind of sentimental value as well as- Oh, absolutely.Yeah.And so if an owner is stressed that their prized possession or possessions are at risk, or won't be there for their vacation, their holiday, their time on board, anything like that- Mm-hmm.they're gonna be quite, quite stressed about it 'cause that's, that's probably why they bought themYeah, no.Uh, I mean, and with great power comes great responsibility.You know, we've got our network of offices.We have an online inventory system.Yeah.Um, so people can track where their stuff is.Yeah.Right?Um, they can r- you know, request that they need something delivered somewhere, or they need a private viewing, or, you know, um, or whatever it is that needs to be done, right?Um, and, and having that transparency and visibility I think is a real comfort, um, because, um, you know that your things are being taken care of properly.Um, I mean, our, our, our motto at Cadogan Tate is, "Everything handled with care."Right?Okay, nice.It's not for me to decide what's valuable or not valuable.Um, it's- It's just everything will be taken care of.Everything needs to be taken care of the right way.Things will go well with Cadogan Tate.Right, okay.Um, and, um, uh, and you're right.Yeah.There are sentimental items.There's, you know, there's also, you know, very valuable artwork or jewelry, um, or you know, like super fragile, you know, glass panels or whatever it is.Yeah.Um, uh, you know, we, we wanna be th- you know, in communication with the crew.We wanna be in communication with yacht management.Um, we wanna be in communication with our agents at the ports, um, to plan all of the customs, you know, in advance so things travel in a, in a tax-efficient way.Um- Yeah.and, uh, it's a team effort.Um, I always think that we're an extension of the crew in some ways.And, and in, and, and in some ways when we're working together well, we're an extension of their, eh, team and vice versa.You know?Yeah.Um, and, um, and that's the kind of attitude that I think is constructive and, and c- means that you can do a lot of things, um, that might not be possible otherwise.Okay.There has got to be stories from this.There's gotta be some such good case studies.I don't, I d- you probably can't talk about them all, but d- can you, can you go through one which I suppose shows, shows the value of Cadogan Tate and your kind of specialty?Or is just, quite frankly, a great story?Sure.I mean, I mean, this work pulls you in all sorts of directions.Right?Yeah.So, um, uh, you know, uh, we've had to send servers to, um, to New York during Hurricane Sandy, you know, by private charter.Right.Um, we've had to go into homes after the fires in LA to evacuate things in Malibu.Um- Oh, right.Yeah.I remember that happening.And, um, and, you know, and now we're setting up, like, emergency planning so that way people, um, have, like, a plan in place- Oh, right.if it happens again.Um, we're working on, um, we work with a number of partners across the industry, um, both in the art world and, and in the yachting world.Um, I've just come from Art Basel for 4 days, uh, where, you know, we've shipped, um, you know, for, you know, 5 or 6 different art fairs, me-me- you know, uh, 70 or 80 galleries in total.Yeah.Um, and that's, um, you know, a real challenge actually to pull off, um, 'cause you've got things from coming from all over the world for, like, a 4day event.Yeah.Um, we've never actually missed a fair opening.Okay.Regardless of how late something's coming, we've always managed to get everything on booth in time.Yeah.Um, and, um, and that's n- that's no easy feat.Um, I mean, uh, we're, you know, we're, we're working with different museums, um, uh, in particular in, in London, Paris, and The States- Yeah.uh, you know, setting up, uh, you know, programs for young people, work placement opportunities.Oh, right.okay.Um, we're trying to get, um, people, uh, involved with, uh, with Cullugan Tey, um, in different ways.Um, I'm thinking of, like, some of the, the events that we've done with, uh, like, different insurers, like Lloyd's, um, where people have come to sort of learn how to pack things or condition a report.Right.Um, our art handler apprenticeship program, which we've launched with MOAD in, uh, San Francisco.Uh, I mean, recently, we did, uh, a shipment for the British Film Institute, uh, with film reels.Um- Yeah.and that was quite challenging because, um, they're slightly different than, um, than artwork.Um, they have special temperature requirements, uh, and they need, uh, special flight cases that need to be built.And, uh, and of course- So just for the transportation of that particular item, there'd be a, like, a customized case for it.Yeah.Just for transportation.It would be like a, like, a fairly standard but climate-controlled- Well, so what we did, in fact-specific storage pack.What we did, in fact, is we built special flight cases with removable rings of foam so they can reuse those cases for any size film reel later on.Right, smooth.And so that way, whenever they need to ship film reels- Yeah.they can use the same cases again.Okay, yeah.Yeah.So it's kind of semi-customized.It's purpose-built for the transport of those- Mm-hmm.but then they can transport many different film reels, yeah.But that was like a, uh, that was a, a solution that came out of collaboration with their team in, in Berkhamsted, and an advanced planning.They don't actually use flight cases already, so it was like a new thing, um, that we were able to, to work on together with them.Yeah.And which is gonna hopefully, uh, reduce their costs for all of the future shipping that they need to do.Yeah.Um, I mean, within the yachting industry, um, I mean, the type of work we do is, is, is really quite sensitive.Uh, I'm, I'm proud to say that, you know, we're, we're, we're managing a fleet of, you know, 24 vessels, where we're working on logistics, um, you know, year round.I, I'm, I'm really proud to say that some of the bigger projects we've worked on, um, have been very challenging but re- re- r- resulted with a net positive where everything's been delivered on time, and we've not had a single breakage.Good.And when you think of how, how large these projects are, um- Yeah.That's good going.Yeah.it's n- it's not, um, it's not a given that that's gonna be the case.Um, and, and some of these projects will, you know, have like 10 or 20 tractor trailers full of like furniture and lighting and glass and stemware and accessories.Yeah.And they're all coming from- But not w- yeah.all over the world, you know.So for na- one to be cracked, damaged, or otherwise and arrive on time is pretty- Mm-hmm.pretty good going.Yeah.And so what, what's, what's the future here?Is it kinda growth?Are you, are you trying to do more in yachting?Is it quite an, quite a good space for you?Are you set up pretty well for that?Well, um, you know, I'm, I'm really, um, an outsider in the yachting world.I, um, my background's the art world.Yeah.Um, and I've been working art fairs for over a decade.Um, I've been, you know, partnering with different museums for about 5 years.Um, even though I've managed yacht projects for, for, you know, 10, 15 years, um, you know, we've seen, uh, that a lot of designers who are normally working in the residential space have moved into yachts, right?So, um, we're working on more and more boats.And so, I think as part of our concierge, um, experience for our customers, we have, like, a- a- an obligation to get out there and, and go visit the shows, and connect with people, and, and really, like, learn, um, about what's important to these type of projects so we can offer the best service possible, right?So, um, I, I cover most of the yacht shows.Um, we're, we're doing a few of the regattas.Okay, yeah.And, um, uh, and between that and the art fairs, um, I'm a tough guy to track down, in fact, yeah.You're pretty busy, yeah.Okay, Francois, thanks for coming to the podcast.My pleasure.Thanks, Ben.Really a pleasure to, to speak with you.Thank you very much.Take care.Everybody, if you enjoy this kind of content, make sure you're following here to see plenty more of it.All being well, we'll see you again next time.Bye for now.